mini normal 2226; who won

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Lukewarm for being the temperature of a tauntaun.

[Alchemist21]

Well I can't say I've found scum yet but I've found another Star Wars fan so there's a point for me.

[Alchemist21]

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

How have you been? It's been a while.

[Alchemist21]

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

How have you been? It's been a while.

I’ve been alright

That's good.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Lukewarm for being the temperature of a tauntaun.

VOTE: Alchemist21 no townie would ever subject the rest of town to this pun.

I feel lukewarm about this push.

VOTE: Seanzie

How have you been too?

[Alchemist21]

What changed?

[Alchemist21]

That’s not very specific.

[Alchemist21]

What changed?

You posted more.

What about it was scummy?

Good question. Instead of entering with jokes or RVS, Alchemist seems to want to be friends with everyone.

Except I definitely entered with a joke and an RVS.

[Alchemist21]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

[Alchemist21]

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Not really. Coyness isn't really a tell, town and scum alike do that all the time.

The read itself... is not exactly impressing me but I don't expect much from a page 1 read.

Why didn't you make any sort of post towards Seanzie?

[Alchemist21]

If you saw him being coy about his reasons for voting me, and you don't think the coyness is automatically Townie, then I would think you'd try to press them for more info. I don't see why you couldn't do that and still push Flubber.

[Alchemist21]

waiting for my hero.




Alchemist do you think Seanzie is a Mafia?

No. He feels more like low-hanging fruit to me and I think both he and I were interested in seeing who else would push him for voting me. It was notable to me after the first 2 votes that the people voting Seanzie were people who know me, but 2 could just be a coincidence and I wanted to see if there would be a pattern and if anyone would try to pocket me along the way. I wanted to see how it played out a bit more but I think we're past that point now.

For what it's worth I don't think Umlaut was wrong on Flubber but there's another part of me that thinks Flubber could have been pushing Seanzie's bad reasoning in his own way and it strikes me as odd that Umlaut went for Flubber and didn't make any comment towards Seanzie.

What are your reads looking like so far?

[Alchemist21]

another person that i kind of dislike right now is alchemist. something feels very scummy-nitpicky about his 39/41/43. like, it feels wrong that alch ia shading umlaut for not pressing seanzie while going for flubber just because umlaut didn't find coyness townie. umlaut found flubber's push to be suspicious so he went there, why would town!umlaut automatically have to be evaluating the pushee as well?

It may be nitpicky but I’m trying to understand Umlaut’s motivation here. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect him to have reacted to the slot literally everyone else was reacting to.

[Alchemist21]

while it's far from the first time i get some suspicion my way for my tone of speaking, i do kind of expect better from someone who's already played a few games with me.

Let me have bad reads in peace.

if flubber was reacting to something that wasn't rvs, then flubber's own post can't have been rvs either, right? so why are you suspecting umlaut for taking flubber's "rvs" interaction too seriously?

+1 to this.

[Alchemist21]

while it's far from the first time i get some suspicion my way for my tone of speaking, i do kind of expect better from someone who's already played a few games with me.

Let me have bad reads in peace.

This post is in a weird place between “I know it’s a joke” and “dude wtf” for me. I haven’t liked any of T3’s posts so far.

VOTE: T3

[Alchemist21]

How does one man who joins so many mafia games never learn.

Who/what is this in reference to?

[Alchemist21]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

so I don't think seanzie is literally scumreading someone for posting more. I think they're trying to manufacture a push and doing it poorly. so the only thing they could shade alchemist for was "posting". seems like I'm right too, because in elaborating, they're now saying things that are just...wrong

What do you think of my idea that Seanzie may have been testing to see who would try defending/pocketing me?

[Alchemist21]

IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTE;
There are exactly three players in this game that have access to private topics.

This has been on my mind a bit, but have mods recently started putting info like this in their rulesets? This was an oddly specific detail to include and if there’s a neighborhood it means there’s a guaranteed scum in there.

[Alchemist21]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

so I don't think seanzie is literally scumreading someone for posting more. I think they're trying to manufacture a push and doing it poorly. so the only thing they could shade alchemist for was "posting". seems like I'm right too, because in elaborating, they're now saying things that are just...wrong

What do you think of my idea that Seanzie may have been testing to see who would try defending/pocketing me?

I'm not seeing it and you're probably overthinking things. dude got pressured on why he voted for you then straight up lied

He only lied if you take the “you posted more” comment literally which only you and Titus claim to have done.

[Alchemist21]

how is that wrong? at the time of him saying that his vote became serious, alchemist was making small talk and asking people how they were? like, it seems like making friends to me... (don't think he's scum for it, but i can see the thought process as plausible.)

It was an incorrect statement because I did joke and make an RVS vote as well. I actually called it out and the response from Seanzie was just a winky face. I didn’t really know what to make of that response but just assumed he was trolling and let it go because I was more interested in the potential Seanzie wagon.

[Alchemist21]

IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTE;
There are exactly three players in this game that have access to private topics.

This has been on my mind a bit, but have mods recently started putting info like this in their rulesets? This was an oddly specific detail to include and if there’s a neighborhood it means there’s a guaranteed scum in there.

I had the sense to check on it, it's only valid for the start of the game

So there could still be neigjborizers or something?

IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTE;
There are exactly three players in this game that have access to private topics.

This has been on my mind a bit, but have mods recently started putting info like this in their rulesets? This was an oddly specific detail to include and if there’s a neighborhood it means there’s a guaranteed scum in there.

That would leave 2 scum for the entire game if one town was in a neighborhood at the start of the game.

Yeah it seemed like it would be weird to have the game start with a guaranteed 1v1, but even then the alternative is confirming there isn’t a hood or masonry which also seems odd to inform us about. I’m not sure why we were given this extra info unless someone decided Town just needs that much of a buff.

[Alchemist21]

But Titus since you’re here got any reads to share?

[Alchemist21]

didn't like how buddy-buddy Alchemist was being, a

For context on that, it’s been at least 9 months since I’ve been in a game and the people I was asking how they’ve been are people I played a lot with in the past.

[Alchemist21]

That light blue is kinda hard to read on mafsilver. I can still tell what it says though.

[Alchemist21]

Can you go over your reasons for all your reads?

[Alchemist21]

T3 I'm not quite as comfortable with but they've all done independently townish things that remind me of their towngames.

Can you show me which T3 posts looked Towny to you?

Outside of that and your read on me my reads are at about the same place but with different levels of confidence.

[Alchemist21]

i currently have about 8 scumleans and 3/4ths of a townread

can whoever is town here start acting like it

Sounds like a you problem.

[Alchemist21]

Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.

I absolutely disagree with this. Please provide evidence.

looks like I'm mindmelding w/ titus

Titus comes in and backs Flubbed up.

Flubber comes in and backs Titus up.

And both were for issues y’all were in the minority on. I don’t think 2 scum buddies would be this blatant with each other but it’s really feeling like at least one of you is scum.

VOTE: Flubber

[Alchemist21]

i currently have about 8 scumleans and 3/4ths of a townread

can whoever is town here start acting like it

Sounds like a you problem.

What's the point of this reply?

The point is that if he’s scumreading 8 slots then his idea of scumminess is way too broad and he needs to figure out where he’s going wrong instead of putting it on everyone else.

[Alchemist21]

Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.

I absolutely disagree with this. Please provide evidence.

looks like I'm mindmelding w/ titus

Titus comes in and backs Flubbed up.

Flubber comes in and backs Titus up.

And both were for issues y’all were in the minority on. I don’t think 2 scum buddies would be this blatant with each other but it’s really feeling like at least one of you is scum.

VOTE: Flubber

Why Flubber over Titus? Just because he's leading?

Because I was already leaning scum on Flubber. Him going second also makes me think he’s trying to pocket the 1 Town player that was on his side.

[Alchemist21]

So does "at least one of you is scum" just mean "...because Flubber is scum" or do you have a model of that exchange where Titus is scum and Flub is town?

Something about that phrase pings me, because I don't see how Flubber returning Titus' townread/mindmeld/etc. can possibly reflect badly on

her

.

There’s a chance Titus was defending Flub early to look good if the slot everyone was scumreading flipped Town and she was the only one Townreading it, and then Flubber just kinda latched on because any open port in a storm looks good, but all that’s the less likely scenario.

[Alchemist21]

anyone have questions for me?

What posts are making you feel out-of-touch?

[Alchemist21]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

You could start one of your own. Any reads you feel really strongly about?

[Alchemist21]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

this is probably the worst page to make this comment about

Gamma admitting to it and not really caring about the optics of the post is more Towny than not imo.

[Alchemist21]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

You could start one of your own. Any reads you feel really strongly about?

I think Aristeia is probably town

Ok. Can you go into detail about why?

[Alchemist21]

Had to look at the playerlist to see who I was missing

You double checked and still missed me.

[Alchemist21]

in general I think her approach is town

Hypothetically let’s assume you’re wrong about who they are; can you elaborate on this part? Quote specific posts that make you think this?

[Alchemist21]

I still prefer my flubber vote but I could switch to Chaos. It definitely feels more like they’re trying to justify themselves rather than actually scumhunt.

[Alchemist21]

Honestly most of the people here are giving me town vibes, I would like to hear some more from Alch, because they are giving off some weird vibes.
I think ChaosOmega is also giving off some weird vibes, but they seem to already be under fire.

Not really scumreads, but more off nullreads in a sea of townreads for me -_('-')_-

I have the highest post count in the game. How much more do you need to hear? What posts are giving you weird vibes?

[Alchemist21]

Before I post my reasons for TRing Aristeia, I have a bit of an odd question for Datisi:
Would you rather be a one-shot bulletproof or one-shot vigilante?

Oh, I know what's going on.

Do tell.

[Alchemist21]

I shouldn't say.

How so? The more you evade, the more I’ll be convinced of my own picture of the situation, and trust me, it wouldn’t be a good one for you.

*confusion*
It defeats the purpose.

Then why say anything about it in the first place?

[Alchemist21]

I think my main problem with Alch here is that even though they are posting frequently, their posts are primarily just asking for other people to elaborate. I also disagree with the criticism of Datsi having a large number of SRs early on. I find that kind of behavior natural of townies.

Yes, I ask people to elaborate so I can understand them better. I also didn’t say Datisi was being scummy, I was saying the number of scumreads is problematic and the issue is on his end, not ours.

I’ve also done more than just ask for elaboration from people, but I don’t think you actually read the game carefully; I think you just skimmed through it.

[Alchemist21]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

[Alchemist21]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

[Alchemist21]

UGHHH
I TYPED A WALL ON IT BUT MY INTERNET CRASHED

If that’s true you better type it up again because nobody has any reason to believe it existed in the first place.

[Alchemist21]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

jBasically, I either am a role that Gamma mentioned, or am a role that implies one of the roles Gamma mentioned, or I know by some mechanism through other players breadcrumbing or me being informed at the start. I thought Gamma was breadcrumbing or something of the sort, so I wanted to give him indication I was aware of what he was talking about. I then flipped to the next page and found a completely different explanation than what I was expecting.
k?

That’s the first thing you said I could actually believe. Calling attention to it the way you did isn’t really helpful to anyone but scum though.

[Alchemist21]

it was pretty obvious that t3 was trying to get out of having to say something about mech and i'm hmm at alchemist trying to force the issue >_>

i still wanna see the wall on my meta, though.

It’s the only acceptable answer he could have given, but to call attention to the post then try to sweep it under the rug instead of giving their thoughts looked more like scum going “shit I fucked up and this looks bad, let’s hope they forget about it and it goes away.”

[Alchemist21]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

jBasically, I either am a role that Gamma mentioned, or am a role that implies one of the roles Gamma mentioned, or I know by some mechanism through other players breadcrumbing or me being informed at the start. I thought Gamma was breadcrumbing or something of the sort, so I wanted to give him indication I was aware of what he was talking about. I then flipped to the next page and found a completely different explanation than what I was expecting.
k?

This also tracks I think
It kinda feels like how he acted in Mini 2213, but less shady, as ludicrous as it seems

Are you saying he’s acting less shady now than in a previous Town game?

[Alchemist21]

Ok. My vote’s staying then unless that meta wall looks extraordinarily Towny.

EBWOP: You ninja’d me with it. Let me look through these.

[Alchemist21]

It wasn't that big of a stir, but Gamma and you brought attention to it.

Nah this one’s still on you. You’re the one who said they saw something.

[Alchemist21]

Fuck it, I don’t have time to sort through all Datisi’s threads to find the games right now. If T3 cared enough to he’s probably just Town anyway.

VOTE: Flubber

[Alchemist21]

still shelfing this as Town For Effort for now because idk why scum!t3 does this. i feel like i've heard somewhere that scum!t3 likes to do townreads on townies but this feels a bit unnecessary. idk.

I agree with you, scum very rarely metadive anyone because they have no need to and don’t feel like spending the energy reading other games.

[Alchemist21]

@Alchemist, thoughts on the chaos and the meg scum reads going around?

Agree with the Chaos read. As I mentioned earlier I think the oddness in Azumarill’s posts is coming from them skimming the thread and not really knowing what they’re talking about which is NAI and I’m willing to come back from V/LA and put more focus into the game before I try to pin down a read there.

[Alchemist21]

They posted 13 hours ago.

[Alchemist21]

for the record, my 427 doesn't mean "being on v/la is scummy", it means "the person on v/la happens to be scummy, unrelated to their v/la", in case someone decides to try to shitpush me for that bad wording

[Alchemist21]

I think it was just quiet because it's Saturday and people were out doing stuff.

[Alchemist21]

My intent is more that independent of T3’s alignment he shouldn’t do it. That’s what policy means. It’s a vote that is policy until I catch up and I want to be able to do so.

What do you make of your chaos wagon and reactions or lack thereof?

I still prefer the Chaos flip, and feel like all of Dats, Ari, and Titus have voiced a scum read there, and honestly unsure why they all decided to jump to Meg over Chaos. But, I think that Meg also is looking like a scum flip, so not the end of the world I guess.

I would move to Chaos too, I just have a preference for Flubber.

[Alchemist21]

My intent is more that independent of T3’s alignment he shouldn’t do it. That’s what policy means. It’s a vote that is policy until I catch up and I want to be able to do so.

What do you make of your chaos wagon and reactions or lack thereof?

I still prefer the Chaos flip, and feel like all of Dats, Ari, and Titus have voiced a scum read there, and honestly unsure why they all decided to jump to Meg over Chaos. But, I think that Meg also is looking like a scum flip, so not the end of the world I guess.

I would move to Chaos too, I just have a preference for Flubber.

Why?

He had a weird entrance and there’s a dynamic between him and Titus that makes me think Flubber is scum. Chaos looks like scum trying to justify all their actions but it’s slightly more plausible that it could be Town than Flubber.

[Alchemist21]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

so I don't think seanzie is literally scumreading someone for posting more. I think they're trying to manufacture a push and doing it poorly. so the only thing they could shade alchemist for was "posting". seems like I'm right too, because in elaborating, they're now saying things that are just...wrong

What do you think of my idea that Seanzie may have been testing to see who would try defending/pocketing me?

I think that if you had that idea you’d have pushed it rather than asking others about it.

I did push that idea in post 47

[Alchemist21]

Not seeing how that post 47 has to do with my predecessor potentially seeing who would defend/pocket you.

Then read it again because it’s the entire first paragraph. This shouldn’t be difficult for you to understand.

[Alchemist21]

What are you hoping to hunt by being repetitive?

A better understanding of Flubber’s alignment.

[Alchemist21]

You think S and you wanted who would push S into voting for you

No, this is where you’re wrong. I thought we both wanted to see who would vote S in defense of me, because S was pushing me. That’s where the idea of people trying to pocket me comes in.

[Alchemist21]

And again if I am wrong here you said figuring this out was dead? Why bring up a dead horse?

Figuring out who else would vote for Seanzie was dead because the wagon changed, but wondering if seeing who would chainsaw defend me was what Seanzie was actually doing was still on the table.

[Alchemist21]

because Star Wars?

This always the best reason to do anything.

[Alchemist21]

I think that this makes Prism town tho.

I feel like Town!Prism starts with a Lukewarm iso, and that scum!Prism doesnt?

Like, her one and only game with me, I was so townread that it hurt, so I don't think that scum!Prism starts with me as their target to try and get a fake scum read / push a miselim. But I also, tunneled Prism somewhat hard that game, so she also would not think of me as an easy pocket target either I don't think.

But I could see town!Prism thinking "town!Luke was obviously town in our last game, so lets iso him to see if it is the same this time"

It’s 4 AM and I’m kinda too tired to think straight but I kinda like this point.

VOTE: Chaos

[Alchemist21]

I think the Chaos/Luke is T/T because I don't really see anything coming off as scummy, and after rereading their interactions back and forth, Chaos response (which I am aware he got push for) felt more like a legitimate response from a town.

Can you elaborate on why you think Chaos’ response looked Towny? I thought Chaos looked pretty scummy in that back and forth.

[Alchemist21]

Spoiler: Sentences in player list order

(There are other reasons and I'm practically falling asleep as I'm writing this but I'm putting the reasons I think are safest for us)
T3 => Annoying, but probably town. I wish he'd quit being antitown, but probably town. Has some instances that separate him from Aristeia where he shows he's analyzing the game.
MegAzumarill => Scum lean. Her posting seems very surface level. She should be able to explain them more. Even her responses don't reference things in thread. They reference what she does as scum for one of them. In her developed response to Datisi she says "Your locking on to something and trying to pressure that person until you are convinced they are town ends up seeming towny. You give off the energy of trying to spot scum, and when you think you have, you don't let up until you either are convinced otherwise or find another person to pressure, and while I don't doubt it can be very effective, it does seem awfully prone to causing mislims. "

This is something you say to a scumread not a town one. But she says in a prior post
"tends to latch onto one thing about a player that they find suspicious and stick by it for long stretches, townread, "

I find this more common with scum than town so they don't have to vote. A good example of me doing this was the Calculasia game mentioned several times. "There has to be a scum in (big list of PRs claims)" but there wasn't. I used the fact the setup was completely townsided to my advantage. The only reason she's not as high up as someone like Chaos as she doesn't seem to have any defenders. This means it's very much either a newbie scum team (which in that case not to worry) or scum are very disconnected right now.

I also think if Meg is scum it's probably with Aristeia.

Overall I think if Meg is town then scum have control of the gamestate somewhere and I'd look for someone manipulating the game. With no champion for the Flubber/Prism wagon then to me its dead because if it's a scum bus then scum would want the credit and if it's led by a town player then if they thought Flubber would flip scum they'd go "Hell ya I'm the champion here's why Flubber flips scum". The only other person this could be is Umlaut at this point and there will be plenty of other ways to test him. The fact no one seems to vouch for the Flubber wagon hardly at all, means that Prism is probably town. I'm kinda at the point some fuckery is happening but I'm not sure where so I wanna flip some people to find it.

(Quote edited to only include parts involving me for relevancy)

The main infraction here is the fact that he goes after me for having reads at a very surface level, yet they don't ask for elaboration on any of the points I made. They don't seem interested in what I have to say and immediately right it off as essentially meaningless without asking to go in depth. I mean I'm aware that people are going to right off some of my reads as bad, but they hadn't made an effort to try to understand where I am coming from. It feels like scum that doesn't want me to add more because they are happy with the dynamics right now

I don’t think it’s entirely correct to say that Math didn’t care what you had to say because they did try to see you had no read on them despite them giving a lot of content to read. In my own interaction with Math it became clear to me he was interested in understanding my motivations and thoughts. I would say Math and I had a pretty meaningful interaction and I don’t get why you think he wouldn’t want you to add more.

[Alchemist21]

Lukewarm wrote:
post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon? -This seems like a natural question from Chaos’s perspective, as the a addition of a comment with his vote parroting what already was said seems awfully, redundant, but it seems like that is what Lukewarm is asking for.

Lukewarm wrote:
And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has? - this seems like the only way someone could respond to this accusation, trying to explain why that interpretation of their behavior wouldn’t make sense as scum. Overall this accusation on Chaos isn’t built on anything solid.

This was right before a large amount of backlash on the post, but mostly "its scummy" or similar. What is your guys' particular problem with the post?

All his energy this game has been put into justifying his actions as seen above rather than actually hunting scum. It looks more like scum trying to coast by with minimal effort.

[Alchemist21]

I want to flip meg, because I think that they are scummy, and they also have associatives now. And ari is making me paranoid wrt prism

If meg is scum, we flip scum.

If meg is town, I can sheep Prism for the rest of the game.

Win win

VOTE: Meg[/m]

What associatives do you think exist with Meg?

[Alchemist21]

I want to flip meg, because I think that they are scummy, and they also have associatives now. And ari is making me paranoid wrt prism

If meg is scum, we flip scum.

If meg is town, I can sheep Prism for the rest of the game.

Win win

VOTE: Meg[/m]

What associatives do you think exist with Meg?

At this point, Meg has given a full read list, and thoughts on most of the slots, and most of the slots have interacted with the wagon. So she has associatives with most slots at this point imo

I thought you had some specific associatives in mind.

[Alchemist21]

their iso is very weak,

they don't feel very engaged.

I don't think they care about the answers to the questions they ask.

their voting history is kind of ick and fits with a flubber partner.

It’s true my engagement has fallen off since the weekend but I was hella engaged at the start and I’ve been having conversations with people so I don’t know where you’re getting this. You’re also gonna need to explain the “flubber partner” bit.

[Alchemist21]

Also, using one flip to check someone based on their read accuracy rarely works. Genuine can be wrong.

It may not be the same for math, but for me it is nore really about read accuracy

First, and foremost, I think Meg is scummy.

But after that, I don't think Ari and Meg are ever partners here. So a

scum meg flip

would make me more

confident in a ari town read

.

And on the other hand, I agree with ari's analysis that scumPrism would not need to enter the thread the way that she did if Meg was not her partner, so a

town meg flip

would make me more

confident in a prism town read

This is more in line with what I was expecting.

[Alchemist21]

Don't you find it odd that it's virtually an all town wagon on Meg

have i missed 4 innocent child announcements somewhere?

also, if you think that the wagon on meg is currently mostly town, nobody is defending them, but they're not going through... how does that point to "meg is town, and scum doesn't wanna get their hands dirty (even though two of them are currently ~possible counterwagons)" as opposed to "meg is scum, and scum is stalling and praying that the wagon doesn't end up happening"?

At this point if Meg flips Red Titus is a good candidate for their partner.

[Alchemist21]

anyone else get the feeling that alch went from actively solving the game to dropping off, doing a post or two a day, and not trying to advance the game at all?

Sorry, I slowed down on the weekend and then the higher post count that came in was kinda hard to keep up with.

[Alchemist21]

Don't you find it odd that it's virtually an all town wagon on Meg

have i missed 4 innocent child announcements somewhere?

also, if you think that the wagon on meg is currently mostly town, nobody is defending them, but they're not going through... how does that point to "meg is town, and scum doesn't wanna get their hands dirty (even though two of them are currently ~possible counterwagons)" as opposed to "meg is scum, and scum is stalling and praying that the wagon doesn't end up happening"?

At this point if Meg flips Red Titus is a good candidate for their partner.

Says the other person not hammering the meg wagon sitting at e-1.

Come on, hammer. Get the cred

This showed up in my p-edit: I’m still reading through and won’t change my vote for any reason until I’m done.

[Alchemist21]

hm. with prism actually voting meg, i am this close -><- to calling for a flashwagon on alch

How does any of that relate to me?

[Alchemist21]

Ok I’m caught up and am in agreement Meg is just trying to stall.

VOTE: Meg

E-1

again since Prism unvoted.

[Alchemist21]

Taking a page top before i go!

Here we go!

@ anyone off Meg's wagon

If meg really has been "scum reading luke for a while" do they really say this when they hit E-1, instead of immediately outing their concern incase the hammer is eminent?

Town meg was more worried about getting the page top before they died, then outing their pocket scum read?

I was actually going to start writiting the megapost as I checked to see you had started the flashhammer.

They even claim to have been logged on, specifically to type up the mega post when they saw the push

@ Titus, I will stop posting repeatedly, but I very much would like you to look at this very specific thing and tell me your thoughts.

imo, this is pretty damning that the "I have been scum reading luke for a while" line is a lie.

Less a scumread, more recurring suspicions I think should be checked out.

That’s a really half-assed backtrack and this doesn’t refute Luke’s point at all.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Chaos

[Alchemist21]

not voting: MathBlade, Alchemist21, Gamma Emerald, Umlaut, Datisi, Seanzie, Aristeia, Titus, Lukewarm, ChaosOmega, Not_Mafia

Mathblade replaced Seanzie. Vulture is missing from this list.

[Alchemist21]

Prism’s replace-out has me pretty much locktowning the slot. Pretty sure that was a Town ragequit given his posts towards EoD.

[Alchemist21]

Why do you think a lot of naked votes happened start of today versus discussion of the flip?
I expect RVS d1 not D2.

I get that everyone here is mentioned as possible scum EoD yesterday but I don’t like the naked votes and I don’t like how weird that kill is. Going to be ISOing T3

Everyone who was here agreed T3 was Town after they metadived Datisi, so the kill isn’t really surprising because they were never going to be destroyed.

[Alchemist21]

Why do you think a lot of naked votes happened start of today versus discussion of the flip?
I expect RVS d1 not D2.

I get that everyone here is mentioned as possible scum EoD yesterday but I don’t like the naked votes and I don’t like how weird that kill is. Going to be ISOing T3

Chaos was in my top two scummiest players list day 1, so now they are #1 on that list, so my vote has moved back. Chaos has not really done anything to change that opinion since I voiced it before. I would not call that an RVS vote.

As for T3, I think that surprisingly, he was the most widely town read player in the game Day 1. I had all but town locked him over his dats meta dive.

Why do you think that T3 was a strange kill?

I don’t think I should say more than that what I said above but the kill seems extremely suboptimal unless hijinks are happening.

Oh yeah T3 softclaimed having some role-related info so there was that as well.

[Alchemist21]

Here:

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

jBasically, I either am a role that Gamma mentioned, or am a role that implies one of the roles Gamma mentioned, or I know by some mechanism through other players breadcrumbing or me being informed at the start. I thought Gamma was breadcrumbing or something of the sort, so I wanted to give him indication I was aware of what he was talking about. I then flipped to the next page and found a completely different explanation than what I was expecting.
k?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Umlaut

Why did you wait until now to vote Umlaut?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Chaos

Why are you just now voting Chaos?

Math is weirded out by naked votes at the start of this day but I’m weirded out with people that waited and then voted for seemingly no reason. So far it’s been Titus and Ari, and both times came right after a vote count.

[Alchemist21]

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

I don’t see why scumLuke does this unless they’re trying really hard to bus Chaos and think they can get a universal Townread destroyed out of it.

Also Luke got cold feet about Chaos after people started joining that wagon and it became more viable, so “realizing it wasn’t gonna happen” is an incorrect assessment.

[Alchemist21]

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

I don’t see why scumLuke does this unless they’re trying really hard to bus Chaos and think they can get a universal Townread destroyed out of it.

Also Luke got cold feet about Chaos after people started joining that wagon and it became more viable, so “realizing it wasn’t gonna happen” is an incorrect assessment.

There's a shiny Umlaut wagon waiting for your comment.

I think Umlaut has a decent chance of flipping scum but I think the chance of Chaos scum is higher.

[Alchemist21]

Why?

Umlaut’s mainly been lurking and beetlejuices here and there, which is scummy but not damningly so.

Like I said yesterday, Chaos made a lot of posts that only served to justify their actions rather than scumhunt. I wasn’t really impressed with their posts after that and I think they’re more an attempt to look Towny without actually doing anything. The Chaos wagon breaking down and becoming the Meg wagon is also suspicious; I think somewhere along the line scum helped push away from Chaos and onto Meg but I’ll wait to see if Chaos flips scum before going down that rabbit hole.

[Alchemist21]

How ridiculous on a scale of “I get it to” to “Math is so far in left field they built a new ballpark” are the following:

Chaos + Umlaut
Datisi + Umlaut
Chaos/Umlaut both town and lots of deep wolves?

I am thinking that these are the most likely worlds.

1. Fairly likely but I’m with you on it being weird Umlaut is getting all the votes.

2. Shit would really have to hit the fan for me to think it’s Datisi.

3. Highly unlikely but more likely than 2.

[Alchemist21]

luke, how may i bribe you for an umlaut vote?

How can we get you on board the chaos wagon?

Similar to Luke, I don’t like the idea of Chaos getting away a second Day in a row.

[Alchemist21]

The people on Chaos are going to think the Umlaut wagon is scum for resisting and vice versa.

I think Chaos and Umlaut are both scum. I think we should flip Chaos first. I think there has been a lot of resistance to the Chaos wagon but after a red flip I’d still flip Umlaut afterwards before I accused anyone on Umlauts wagon of trying to drive the counterwagon.

[Alchemist21]

For those of you on Chaos can you explain the Umlaut scum argument in your own words?
If not, you should be asking about it.

Vice versa if on Umlaut.

My understanding is that Umlaut keeps chiming in with posts that don’t contribute anything and this is in line with his meta of lurking as scum.

[Alchemist21]

The people on Chaos are going to think the Umlaut wagon is scum for resisting and vice versa.

I think Chaos and Umlaut are both scum. I think we should flip Chaos first. I think there has been a lot of resistance to the Chaos wagon but after a red flip I’d still flip Umlaut afterwards before I accused anyone on Umlauts wagon of trying to drive the counterwagon.

Why the resistance/strong preference for Umlaut if you think they're both equally scum?

He’s getting away 2 Days in a row and it gives me the impression Chaos is more important to the scumteam.

[Alchemist21]

He’s getting away 2 Days in a row and it gives me the impression Chaos is more important to the scumteam.

Yet, you're not highlighting who you think is scum saving Chaos.

That will have to be figured out after the Umlaut flip, because I’m not sure if, aside from Chaos’ vote, there is scum on the Umlaut wagon or if scum is hesitant to join because they don’t want it to happen but are content to let it happen before Chaos.

[Alchemist21]

If you actually had a PT with Datisi you’d be voting him.

The opposite would also be true; Datisi would be voting her. This was just trolling.

[Alchemist21]

not sure if my math is right.

But you’re

math

blade!

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Chaos

[Alchemist21]

with n_m in game.

Oops. I wasn’t even thinking about NM when I voted.

[Alchemist21]

right. it's a bit out there theory, but. umlaut went no effort shortly after you repped in. i know scumlaut is capable of efforting when he needs to and being a lazy fuck when he can get away with it.

obviously i know you're gonna say "coincidence" which is why i'm hoping others will knock some sense into me.

I thought Umlaut went quiet before Math joined the game.

[Alchemist21]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

[Alchemist21]

Oooh Gamma traitor Luke scum

Me 4th scum.

Like this is just all around bad.

I think I lock town Gamma if Chaos is scum here, maybe Luke too.

Luke is definitely lockTown on a Chaos scum flip.

[Alchemist21]

I think Chaos is searching for a sus that will stick versus believing any of it

This is what I’m thinking too. There’s a sort of desperation in their posts today.

[Alchemist21]

also the fact that both luke and alch have returned, probably acknowledged that omega is softing a guilty, and haven't unvoted is like, hm.

Omega isn’t softing a guilty. Most people have been saying since D2 he needs to be flipped so if he had anything today that would stop his lim and get a scumflip he would give it. If he were Town he’d know this isn’t the time to be coy about it.

[Alchemist21]

alch, do you really think scum!omega plays the way he did around scum!umlaut and now locks himself in a pr claim?

I said yesterday that I think Chaos is more important to the scumteam than Umlaut. They were happy to let Umlaut die but they need Chaos, and that’s why today he’s doing this PR pretending and throwing shade at Math.

[Alchemist21]

like, actively softing a guilty, today? I thought the deal was chaos got a guilty on umlaut yday

sorry, was* softing a guilty yesterday

it's been a very long night for me

Oh. Still don’t see it and I still think he’s scum here.

[Alchemist21]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?

Another attempt to discredit. Omega is not doing anything to show he’s Town, just attacking the wagon.

[Alchemist21]

ngl I think a chaos townflip does implicate Alch
VOTE: DkKoba
I think I kinda wanna opt for what is my common denominator rn

Why is Koba scum to you?

[Alchemist21]

like, actively softing a guilty, today? I thought the deal was chaos got a guilty on umlaut yday

We look for scum on Umlaut on Umlaut besides Datisi Gamma Math and Chaos. The concensus was there was a guilty. I bet scum played like it.

that leaves only you, aristeia and not_mafia.

bussing is the obvious play. i wouldn't be terribly surprised if scum stayed off, then today went "well it was obvious it was a guilty, if i had been scum i would've been bussing" and like, someone like alch is sure as fuck not playing like town right now

alch, do you really think scum!omega plays the way he did around scum!umlaut and now locks himself in a pr claim?

alch give me a plausible reason why scum!omega softs a guilty on a partner the way he did

i don't give a shit about "most people are saying he has to get flipped", scum will have to shoot him tonight lmao

First of all go through his posts and show me how he was softing a guilty because I don’t believe he was.

“Scum will have to shoot him tonight” when we now know there’s a role that can stop kills is a moot point. It gives a plausible reason why they didn’t shoot him.

[Alchemist21]

their push against me is totally lifeless, compared to times where koba has pushed against me as town
being demotivated accounts for some of it but even the logic doesn't compare to what koba has put forth against me when town

Is scum Koba always lazy? Different from usual doesn’t necessarily mean scum.

[Alchemist21]

Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all?

this, coupled with the naked lolvote at the start, looked like a pr soft to me

Why would Town trying to soft a guilty call scum’s attention to it like that? If he had a guilty I’d expect him to appeal to everyone else to trust him and vote Umlaut. This looks more like trying to set up a back and forth conversation with Umlaut.

[Alchemist21]

Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all?

this, coupled with the naked lolvote at the start, looked like a pr soft to me

But a fucking strange one if it is? If umlaut is going down anyways ( I need to look back when I have my computer, but I believe umlaut was the leading wagon, why make it at all?

And if you ARE going to soft, why is it directed AT the scum?

Weird.

See this guy gets it.

[Alchemist21]

their push against me is totally lifeless, compared to times where koba has pushed against me as town
being demotivated accounts for some of it but even the logic doesn't compare to what koba has put forth against me when town

fam u joined a scum wagon at the end of it that had no counterwagon and now are pushing someone who helped start that very same wagon LOL

stop trolling

false, I voted umlaut early, jumped off to see what would happen, and returned when I p much got bored with that and was ready to end the day

Flat as a board i tell ya

Define “flat” for me here because I don’t remember know what you mean.

[Alchemist21]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?

Another attempt to discredit. Omega is not doing anything to show he’s Town, just attacking the wagon.

No (:

Please?

[Alchemist21]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?

Another attempt to discredit. Omega is not doing anything to show he’s Town, just attacking the wagon.

No (:

Please?

Oh wait I thought this was a reply to 1801 lmao

[Alchemist21]

I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.

What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?

This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.

You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?

Another attempt to discredit. Omega is not doing anything to show he’s Town, just attacking the wagon.

No (:

Ok show me how Omega is Town then.

[Alchemist21]

That was probably directed at me, Gamma.

[Alchemist21]

Wait prism is in this game? Dude saltily repped out of a game i was in with him recently because apparently i*exist* so lmao
dude's alignment is easy as hell to read tho; theyre a level 1 emotional player

Yeah it’s N_m’s slot. Prism was Towny and the ragequit lockTowns it imo.

[Alchemist21]

Gamma your case largely ignores the D1 context that we had a Chaos wagon and it broke down and became the MegAzumarill flip and I want to avoid a repeat of that.

[Alchemist21]

For anyone who thinks I’m scum, do you think I ever make these posts to and about my scumbuddy?

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Do you have a read on Seanzie's coyness? You entered the thread going straight for flubber and didn't really react to Seanzie's posts.

Not really. Coyness isn't really a tell, town and scum alike do that all the time.

The read itself... is not exactly impressing me but I don't expect much from a page 1 read.

Why didn't you make any sort of post towards Seanzie?

another person that i kind of dislike right now is alchemist. something feels very scummy-nitpicky about his 39/41/43. like, it feels wrong that alch ia shading umlaut for not pressing seanzie while going for flubber just because umlaut didn't find coyness townie. umlaut found flubber's push to be suspicious so he went there, why would town!umlaut automatically have to be evaluating the pushee as well?

It may be nitpicky but I’m trying to understand Umlaut’s motivation here. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect him to have reacted to the slot literally everyone else was reacting to.

[Alchemist21]

Point taken. It's possible you are right. If Alch defended Umlaut as if Umlaut was town, my point would have more weight. Yet, that's not what Alch did.

Alch, what do your reads look like?

I have a Townreads on everyone but Chaos, Ari, and you. Koba was in the group of people I don’t trust but his tone is growing on me as a Towny one. If I had to vote between you and Ari it would be Ari.

[Alchemist21]

For anyone who thinks I’m scum, do you think I ever make these posts to and about my scumbuddy?

weak interaction with flipped scum on page <4 that ultimately went absolutely nowhere? uhh... yes?

Explain my motivation as scum in those posts.

[Alchemist21]

Point taken. It's possible you are right. If Alch defended Umlaut as if Umlaut was town, my point would have more weight. Yet, that's not what Alch did.

Alch, what do your reads look like?

I have a Townreads on everyone but Chaos, Ari, and you. Koba was in the group of people I don’t trust but his tone is growing on me as a Towny one. If I had to vote between you and Ari it would be Ari.

Why Luke? Why me? Why Ari?

Luke was the main driver of the Chaos wagon D1; he got cold feet about it as the wagon grew and switched to Meg. If Luke is scum and Chaos Town there was no reason for the switch, and if they were scum together he wouldn’t have come back to Chaos for D2. Additional points for our mindmelds.

Ari’s voting patterns have been weird and I think they might be scum who isn’t sure what to do in this gamestate.

You’re dead null. Some of your takes have been weird but I think they could be Town. You and Math are speaking in Elvish and how to take your posts, but he’s your brother so I figure Math is better for reading you here. I’ve also been wanting to give you time to run VCA since I remember that being your main scumhunting tool.

[Alchemist21]

actually that should be "less or equals to page 4" but you get the idea

pedits: oh lotta pedits

motivation? idk, making posts? pretending to be solving? pretending you're not aligned with your scumbuddy? like, why do you think those posts should clear you?

Because it was an admittedly nitpicky thing to call Umlaut on and if nobody else was saying anything then as his scumbuddy I would either keep my mouth shut or hard push him for it for distancing. It’s pretty clear that my posting was trying to get a better understanding of Umlaut and his entrance.

[Alchemist21]

That post had nothing to do with Chaos except for the fact Luke was voting him.

[Alchemist21]

You’ve done a lot of sheeping and you always seem hesitant to strike out on your own to make a play. It feels like you don’t know what to do with your own vote a lot of the time.

[Alchemist21]

If y’all have meta that says Ari’s Town then fine.

[Alchemist21]

i've heard a different vca theory once. if town starts wagoning other town and there's a pure wagon on a townie, it's in scum's interest to make a counterwagon on another townie.

not saying i'm working from that assumption to scumread the trio, but i will need much more evidence that scum are spread out across both wagons than "it would make sense if this were the case".

Meg wagon formed after Chaos though, so in this case it would make more sense to look at the Meg wagon.

I do see your point about Umlaut not trying to save Chaos at the time though.

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

because they can let the townie burn *anyway*, and then the next day they can go "wow gee guys you voted meg? like i told you we should vote omega hehe" and then you get another misyeet.

i do think it's somewhat unlikely luke/alch are scum together because blatant wagoning together is blatant, but that just makes me think math is more scum and i really need explanation for why he's apparently town by play

Hold on and I’ll pull out a couple posts that I think pretty much show Math is Town.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Alch

Experiment time!

VOTE: Unvote

Nevermind bad idea.

Datisi I will make you a deal. I will vote Umlaut right now for the low low price of “told you so” post game.

So Math made this vote at a weird time as some kind of reaction test but then immediately decided it wasn’t a good idea and unvoted. I just don’t see scum doing this and immediately reconsidering. Plus from their posts I think it’s been pretty clear Math has been trying to figure things out and I have him up there with you in my top Townreads.

[Alchemist21]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.

Imma be real with you chief, it doesn’t matter what alignment I am I don’t really like being the hammer vote. Even as scum in this situation I wouldn’t be rushing to hammer.

[Alchemist21]

All of page 80 is just wtf.

Math it really isn’t likely that any scum would have hammered there because, like what was said before, it would have cut discussion early and people would have been mad at the hammerer.

[Alchemist21]

His ChaosOmega read could be sucking up to Math.

[Alchemist21]

aristeia, what are your thoughts currently? how come you're not voting anyone?

My top suspects are Alchemist and Lukewarm.

Alchemist because he sounded almost disappointed when a bunch of people told him that I was very town and that his thoughts about me were actually how I play as town, I'd think town!him would be more relieved that people told him to stop trying to kill me when I'm like obv!town as it avoids a mis-elim.

If he disagreed with everyone else and still believed I am scum, I would expect him to push back, instead his sigh of annoyance felt like scum being disappointed at a mis-elim being taken off the table.


Lukewarm has overall just not felt very engaged or solvey compared to what I've seen of him in the past and that's a big shrug for me.


I haven't voted because I liked sheeping yesterday since it produced good results and I'm making my mind up about who to sheep today. If you have some solid opinions about who to kill you will tell me yes?

I wasn’t annoyed I just worded it weirdly.

[Alchemist21]

I wasn’t annoyed I just worded it weirdly.

the feeling I got was that you were annoyed.

Nah, that’s me acknowledging that people who know you would know better how to read you and deferring to their Townread on you.

[Alchemist21]

Even if Chaos is Town I still don’t see why scumLuke would ditch the D1 Chaos wagon at its height and go for Meg.

[Alchemist21]

Even if Chaos is Town I still don’t see why scumLuke would ditch the D1 Chaos wagon at its height and go for Meg.

Too much resistance to Chaos?

No. The wagon just really got going. Hold on I’ll pull some quotes.

[Alchemist21]

I don't think it makes sense as town!prism, it feels like scum!prism entered, saw the top two wagons were scum!prism + scum!meg and decided to try to powerwolf and take control of the thread.

I guess my question here, is why would she try to take control of the thread, but attacking/voting me?

I am pretty sure I am one the most universally town read players in the lobby. Can't think of anyone who scum reads me atm other then Chaos, the person I am pushing.

I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto

Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?

Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?

Just like, where I am at.

I still think that both Meg and Chaos are scummy, but I my preference for chaos is falling away.

Meg has gained some associatives recently, more in how other people (and not just prism) have interacted with the slot then just their recent read list, and the lack of meg associaives was the main thing pushing me towards flipping chaos first.

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

I want to flip meg, because I think that they are scummy, and they also have associatives now. And ari is making me paranoid wrt prism

If meg is scum, we flip scum.

If meg is town, I can sheep Prism for the rest of the game.

Win win

VOTE: Meg[/m]

These were all on the same day and he acknowledges people are coming to Chaos, but he did start having stronger feelings about Meg. I’m not sure what the votes looked like at 670 tbh but 784 is acknowledging the Chaos wagon is happening and I remember it having picked up steam by then. There just wasn’t a reason to have switched after that as scum.

[Alchemist21]

I’m VT.

I’m not really sure what my solve is at this point unless Koba was right about it being Titus/Gamma.

VOTE: Titus

[Alchemist21]

I am going to have to review that suggestion about Gamma/Titus. Still busy with work and human kind.

#prodDodge

Do you really think Titus is buttering me up Alch?

Pedit: interesting I need to read lol

She could be. I never could tell if all the Sophie and Star Wars talk was her trying to reach out or trying to manipulate you.

[Alchemist21]

I never said Titus was a top FOS, in fact the inverse is true.

I’m voting which one I think is more likely.

[Alchemist21]

I think this day has run its course aside from waiting on MathBlade. That can be put off until tomorrow as there's no way scum kill him.

agreed the day has run its course, only issue being i'm not yet 100% on the yeet. i want lukewarm back to properly catch up and do whatever he wants to do, and also for alch to respond and stuff

Why are you all saying the day is settled when like there doesn’t seem to be a consensus wagon based on the last vote count?

Ari votes and I’m at E-4. Chaos gave intent and asked me to claim, since NM’s just gonna hammer any E-1.

[Alchemist21]

I'm holding off voting for right now, waiting for Lukewarm's catchup. Alch not giving any reads and just going "maybe this person's theory is right, idk" feels not great. He also hasn't really mentioned Gamma at all and now he's in his solve, is this just a sheep of Koba's thoughts or do you see something there you don't like?

Gamma was my weakest Townread and the rest of my earlier solve except Titis is gone. People are saying Ari’s play this game is a Towntell and I’m pretty sure Koba’s Town at this point.

I thought Gamma was Town when on D1 he said he was kinda struggling with getting into the game which is why I reached out to him to try and get him engaged (and that attempt is another reason everyone should realize I’m Town btw). I’m used to Gamma doing more as both alignments so it’s harder to go off his content and that’s the first Townread I’m going to question since I have to reevaluate.

[Alchemist21]

eh, am assuming luke will yell at me sooner if it's out of order, considering i'm strongly considering voting him right now... or i will yell at myself tomorrow morning (irl time) because i have slept so poorly the past few nights and need to catch up and we have time so /shrug

Take a break and get some sleep. Trust me it’s no good to be tired all the time.

[Alchemist21]

I’m pretty sure Koba’s not scum. The transition from “not gonna tryhard lol” to now trying reads like Town that wanted to hold back but couldn’t help themselves.

[Alchemist21]

I’m pretty sure Koba’s not scum. The transition from “not gonna tryhard lol” to now trying reads like Town that wanted to hold back but couldn’t help themselves.

When did you see this shift?

There were a few posts where he put in effort and was like “back to no tryharding”. It’s really picked up over the past couple of days though.

[Alchemist21]

Why does she owe you on Chaos?

[Alchemist21]

Why does

s

he

owe you on Chaos?

Because he called my early Umlaut read emotional garbage.

And that owes you on your Chaos read specifically because?

[Alchemist21]

Why does

s

he

owe you on Chaos?

Because he called my early Umlaut read emotional garbage.

Because I'm the twin that's more likely to be right. Plus his insult when he was wrong means he should apologize somehow.

And that owes you on your Chaos read specifically because?

I still don’t see why it relates to Chaos specifically or why you think the apology takes on that form. You know how I’ve been saying I can’t tell if you’re manipulating Math or reaching out to him? This looks manipulative as hell.

[Alchemist21]

hm. let's see what happens. VOTE: gamma

i am open to considering voting aristeia, as much as it pains me, but i think i will need a bit more solid reasoning?

anyway, off to bed. if i wake up with either titus or koba run up or dead, there will be words.

Explain how Titus is Town.

[Alchemist21]

I'd wait for any protective cc's to pop up if any at all - but I'm not sure why gamma needs to claim here.


this all seems weird and how would you expect me to be privy to this secret info



titus being an uncc jailkeeper however may be clearing for her but she's been known to be very good at scum mechanics and fake clearing - so I implore if she's still alive in limlo she should be not trusted on claim alone and should be revisited.


however her claim alongside what I remember earlier of her being certain of being nightkilled tracks and likely means its town titus which, embarassingly, means I do lose respect for titus for adding a game where she misreads me to the list after she did so embarassingly in our very last game - something I felt she might have actually considered rectifying as town.

Damn I was thinking you were the protective role.

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

Ok still a couple pages behind but if Gamma is a rolecop what sort of investigative role would Chaos have? What’s the realistic chance of 2 Town TIs?

[Alchemist21]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

Titus is hardcleared unless NM counterclaims.

I think it’s a little convenient for Gamma to claim they targeted Umlaut N1.

I also hate how everyone is at each other’s throats more after the scumflip as opposed to before. The game felt way more cohesive D2.

[Alchemist21]

Dumb question: Assume Chaos had a guilty on Umlaut?

Explain how two things that can fire that can get guilties on scum?

That’s like moderator no no.

Oh I see you beat me to that thought

[Alchemist21]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

Titus is hardcleared unless NM counterclaims.

I think it’s a little convenient for Gamma to claim they targeted Umlaut N1.

I also hate how everyone is at each other’s throats more after the scumflip as opposed to before. The game felt way more cohesive D2.

?? not Mafia counterclaims?

*confusion*

What does Not Mafia have to do with any of this?

He’s the only person left who could counterclaim because everyone has said something.

Wait I forgot about Luke so there’s another.

But you get my point; I doubt there will be a cc.

[Alchemist21]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

Titus is hardcleared unless NM counterclaims.

I think it’s a little convenient for Gamma to claim they targeted Umlaut N1.

I also hate how everyone is at each other’s throats more after the scumflip as opposed to before. The game felt way more cohesive D2.

But does it not track that me getting blocked > voted the person I tried to target? "I trust Titus" was clearly a BS reason to cover for my NA since Titus voted Umlaut

after

me.

Mate apparently there was a soft guilty from Chaos on Umlaut that people picked up on. There was never really a wagon outside of Umlaut.

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

[Alchemist21]

I think atp - if there is a town neighbor they *should* claim for the sake of us having a better understanding of the setup. scum already know who the neighbor is and who it is - hiding that info just hurts us as town

This is the 3rd time this point has been made. At this point there are no Town neighbors because it would have been claimed.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Alch

Why not? Then I can catch up overnight and see if I find any scum in Titus/Gamma/Chaos.

If it’s actually Chaos I don’t know if I’ll be more disappointed in myself or everyone else for letting him go.

I will be happy if it’s Chaos because then Titus can go “I was right on Umlaut” and I can go “I was right on Chaos” lol

See I swear the general attitude D2 was “Umlaut and Chaos are scummy, who should we flip first?” I was expecting the Chaos wagon to take off as easy as the Umlaut wagon and as soon as D3 started and it didn’t happen, he claimed PR and apparently there were people who knew already.

Mainly I still don’t get how there’s less unity today.

[Alchemist21]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

So you didn’t think much of another TI existing?

[Alchemist21]

Good game everyone.