OPEN 868 - Nobility and the Dark Angel | Endgame

[MathBlade]

So if I follow I am the public noble.

I have done a quick skim but am separate from my notes.

Will comment later.

[MathBlade]

Eiralox PBE or Meg.

Can you go into why you suspect these players so I can check my notes later?

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

[MathBlade]

So thanks NM is probably trolling.

With the recent vig game where he had the trolliest legit claim I had to check since I don’t have a voyeur I can read him with.

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

I didn’t mentioned NM in this post but both he and Eiralox claimed hidden noble yesterday. If Eiralox was telling the truth, than DA would have to be Mega unless I’m wrong about Herta..

HEAL: Mega

Maybe better.

Is there a list somewhere of who has been noble?

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

I didn’t mentioned NM in this post but both he and Eiralox claimed hidden noble yesterday. If Eiralox was telling the truth, than DA would have to be Mega unless I’m wrong about Herta..

HEAL: Mega

Maybe better.

Is there a list somewhere of who has been noble?

Everyone other than Mega, Herta have either been elected or claimed noble. Enchant claimed HN and wasn’t CC’d but both NM and Eiralox claimed HN yesterday.

~N

Why do you say claimed? Are you not sure of it?

[MathBlade]

I mean this is something I can verify when I get off work just #lazy

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

I didn’t mentioned NM in this post but both he and Eiralox claimed hidden noble yesterday. If Eiralox was telling the truth, than DA would have to be Mega unless I’m wrong about Herta..

HEAL: Mega

Maybe better.

Is there a list somewhere of who has been noble?

Everyone other than Mega, Herta have either been elected or claimed noble. Enchant claimed HN and wasn’t CC’d but both NM and Eiralox claimed HN yesterday.

~N

Why do you say claimed? Are you not sure of it?

No one CC’d Enchant but that’s obviously not the same as an elected noble, which you and NM are. But I think he’s probably telling the truth about that since he wasn’t CC’d. With Eira and NM it’s less clear. But because it’s NM, the odds of Eira telling the truth about being HN are higher because NM trolls.

~N

I honestly would love a direct list.

Because it might be to DA’s advantage to claim nobled when they weren’t.

Then compare against VC totals and see which claims are verified.

Then actual DA pool is in not verified and never claimed

We probably still elim in never claimed but always trust but verify,

[MathBlade]

Herta's kinda obvscum here

Care to explain why?

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

I didn’t mentioned NM in this post but both he and Eiralox claimed hidden noble yesterday. If Eiralox was telling the truth, than DA would have to be Mega unless I’m wrong about Herta..

HEAL: Mega

Maybe better.

Is there a list somewhere of who has been noble?

Everyone other than Mega, Herta have either been elected or claimed noble. Enchant claimed HN and wasn’t CC’d but both NM and Eiralox claimed HN yesterday.

~N

Why do you say claimed? Are you not sure of it?

No one CC’d Enchant but that’s obviously not the same as an elected noble, which you and NM are. But I think he’s probably telling the truth about that since he wasn’t CC’d. With Eira and NM it’s less clear. But because it’s NM, the odds of Eira telling the truth about being HN are higher because NM trolls.

~N

I honestly would love a direct list.

Because it might be to DA’s advantage to claim nobled when they weren’t.

Then compare against VC totals and see which claims are verified.

Then actual DA pool is in not verified and never claimed

We probably still elim in never claimed but always trust but verify,

If you can figure out the VCs, I think there’s a way to tell because HN vote counts but isn’t listed.

~N

So PBE, Eira, ?NM? and Enchant claim to be hidden nobles?
And hidden nobles must be town?

I believe they are only confirmed not DA.

[MathBlade]

Lol. I’m a hidden noble. Enchant tried to push me really hard as DA last day. Hmmmm

~Nancy

I take it then you’re suggesting NM is trolling?

I didn’t mentioned NM in this post but both he and Eiralox claimed hidden noble yesterday. If Eiralox was telling the truth, than DA would have to be Mega unless I’m wrong about Herta..

HEAL: Mega

Maybe better.

Is there a list somewhere of who has been noble?

Everyone other than Mega, Herta have either been elected or claimed noble. Enchant claimed HN and wasn’t CC’d but both NM and Eiralox claimed HN yesterday.

~N

Why do you say claimed? Are you not sure of it?

No one CC’d Enchant but that’s obviously not the same as an elected noble, which you and NM are. But I think he’s probably telling the truth about that since he wasn’t CC’d. With Eira and NM it’s less clear. But because it’s NM, the odds of Eira telling the truth about being HN are higher because NM trolls.

~N

I honestly would love a direct list.

Because it might be to DA’s advantage to claim nobled when they weren’t.

Then compare against VC totals and see which claims are verified.

Then actual DA pool is in not verified and never claimed

We probably still elim in never claimed but always trust but verify,

If you can figure out the VCs, I think there’s a way to tell because HN vote counts but isn’t listed.

~N

It’s more look at the last day’s VCs.

If there were enough people to hammer without hidden noble then it’s possible hidden noble is lying if off wagon.

Mainly it’s math I have to do after work.

But if day 6 needed for elim and 5 were on wagon and player was elimmed hidden noble is in those 5.

[MathBlade]

Herta's kinda obvscum here

Care to explain why?

+1

Think I was probably right about NM being town. Sounds like town!NM to me.

~N

I am just shocked NM gave a read.

[MathBlade]

I mean we just noble me today and herta tomorrow and win?

Assuming DA is the one we don’t noble we might lose. Scum hidden noble the other if I follow the setup right?

[MathBlade]

I think we have to think things through and focus on elimming scum too.

If we don’t hidden noble the da today then odds are scum will do it tonight. We might be in danger of losing here so let’s go slow.

[MathBlade]

so let's elim and noble remaining two?

Let’s assume DA between Meg and Herta. I believe this is the common assumption. Late night will verify this later.

Assume we noble Meg and the DA is Herta and we miselim. Then scum likely DA Herta. Mafia gets a one shot dayvig.

We are at 8 alive. Into night 7 alive. DA Herta, they leave. NK someone. 5 alive into day, scum dayvig, we lose.

If you like swap Meg and Herta. If wrong same consequence.

So if we aim to win the game with DA we absolutely have to be sure on scum.

Mainly I am trying to figure out how to proceed in the safest manner possible.

It might be that we don’t try to win via DA. Or if we do try to win via DA we understand and acknowledge the risk as a group.

[MathBlade]

The way I figure assuming DA between Meg/Herta

We miselim -> We DA right -> We win.
We miselim -> We DA wrong -> We lose.

We no elim -> We DA right -> We win.
We no elim -> We DA wrong, scum DA correct -> 8 alive into night, scum NK 6 alive start of day -> no elim again, elo

We elim proper -> No way we lose. Possible chance to outright win on DA.

I guess this boils down to how sure we are on DA pick and elim.

[MathBlade]

The way I figure assuming DA between Meg/Herta

We miselim -> We DA right -> We win.
We miselim -> We DA wrong -> We lose.

We no elim -> We DA right -> We win.
We no elim -> We DA wrong, scum DA correct -> 8 alive into night, scum NK 6 alive start of day -> no elim again, elo

We elim proper -> No way we lose. Possible chance to outright win on DA.

I guess this boils down to how sure we are on DA pick and elim.

I see what you’re saying but even one vote on DA could mean we lose if wrong. Problem is it’s harder to tell who’s mafia than DA.

I think Mega might be wrong based on Junko’s posting. Can you ISO her and tell me what you think?

~N

I think mainly we need to build a town block first over DA or mafia hunting. Yes I plan on ISOing but I want to see if we can get a town block together to decide things.

Then we can determine if we elim or not and how we noble.

Defensive = Noble a TR and no elim
Offensive = Noble in Meg/Herta and elim scumread.

[MathBlade]

Just by posting alone if we elim I would say Enchant.

DA would be Meg.

I think DA Herta doesn’t really make sense I don’t think because Meg just disappearing feels really bad.

[MathBlade]

Mainly I don’t feel comfortable weighing in on betting the game or not being a replace.

[MathBlade]

What in statement "We need to noble+elim Meg/Herta" you don't understand?

The fact we don’t have to take that gamble

[MathBlade]

I'll try to catch up best I can this weekend (prolly sunday) but for today give me the tldr

Sorry I just blanked thought you were done til weekend

[MathBlade]

Hidden nobles: eiralox, enchant, PBE
Elected nobles: Mathblade (Tapio), Not_Mafia
Not nobled: Herta, Meg

Assuming hidden noble claims are true, DA is in Herta/Meg.

HEAL: Meg

WRT mafia, I don't know.
____________

Math, there are 7 alive, so 6 into night. The VC says 8 votes because you have 2 votes. So 7 into night, 6 alive tomorrow.

If mafia select DA tonight, DA leaves so 5 alive tomorrow, 3 town 2 maf, with dayvig town loses.

If mafia do not select DA tonight, 6 alive tomorrow, 3 town, 2 maf and 1 DA.

Is that correct?

Crap let me redo the calculations

[MathBlade]

DA right -> we win (this is omitted for brevity)

7 alive -> DA wrong no elim -> 7 into night. Lose two (DA+NK) 5 alive. Scum have dayvig we lose.
Ergo miselim we lose on DA wrong.

If we decide the DA ourselves we have to elim scum in case we misfire on the DA. Miselim isn’t the safer option if we decide DA.

If we don’t decide the DA ourselves then 7 into night, 50/50 we lose.

That’s a lot less appealing and might be time for hero shot. But yeah we might have to elim one noble the other but I hate the fact I agree with Enchant as he’s so scummy.

[MathBlade]

You win when your faction holds a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring, and the Dark Angel isn't elected as noble.

So mafia can win with DA as well if they never get nobilized.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the town.

Town autoloses if we guess wrong today.

~N

This. And not guessing is 50/50 loss.

So I hate that I agree with Enchant.

But it might be smart to deny scum the dayvig.

[MathBlade]

I am off work give me an hour or so for noms. Then can do more awesome things.

[MathBlade]

You win when your faction holds a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring, and the Dark Angel isn't elected as noble.

So mafia can win with DA as well if they never get nobilized.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the town.

Town autoloses if we guess wrong today.

~N

This. And not guessing is 50/50 loss.

So I hate that I agree with Enchant.

But it might be smart to deny scum the dayvig.

We don’t have a choice because we lose if we’re wrong on DA today.

~N

Break it down?

If we DA a non DA not in Meg/Herta then scum have a 50/50

Can you highlight my mistake please?

[MathBlade]

Give me a bit after dinner

I generally don’t like deciding games on replace in and especially don’t want to on an empty stomach

[MathBlade]

You win when your faction holds a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring, and the Dark Angel isn't elected as noble.

So mafia can win with DA as well if they never get nobilized.

You win when there are no longer any threats to the town.

Town autoloses if we guess wrong today.

~N

This. And not guessing is 50/50 loss.

So I hate that I agree with Enchant.

But it might be smart to deny scum the dayvig.

We don’t have a choice because we lose if we’re wrong on DA today.

~N

Break it down?

If we DA a non DA not in Meg/Herta then scum have a 50/50

Can you highlight my mistake please?

What do you mean by 50/50? 50/50 chance of hitting DA? They know who it is (who wasn't nobled) If we kill the one we don't noble, it's a 0% chance because DA is dead.

It’s more if we didn’t noble either of you and killed neither

We could just noble someone not DA and elim one of them

Mainly this sucks to decide

[MathBlade]

My Likliest Scumteam: MegaAzumarill/Not_Mafia.

Dark Angel: ??????????????

Guess herta if PBE is telling truth and I'm on Mega/NotM. But herta.... sorta feels town so eh?

I'm still undecided on enchant. Felt weurd but can actually be coming from viewpoint of town concern.

Meh that's it for now? Yeah.

Do you agree with the premise that DA is in Meg/Herta?

[MathBlade]

Math has a problem.

I do? What problem is that?

[MathBlade]

My brain is auto correcting DA to "duh" and it's making me have to reread each new posts but it does make it funnier

What are your solves Meg? Assuming DA is Herta?

[MathBlade]

Why I asked Math to read Junko ISO is I got the impression she didn’t know who DA was but of course that could have been faked.

I haven’t played with Junko enough really to make a call.

With the game riding on things I kinda want to be collaborative than “rah rah elim X” since wrong we lose.

[MathBlade]

After my car servicing is done I will start ISOing people.

[MathBlade]

Mainly it’s a catch 22. Assuming DA is in Meg/Herta

They will heal/elim vote the other.

If the other one of them is scum (which we kinda need) then only one scum exists outside to do any influence.

Then I kinda want to see who gets picked first for elim.

But then having the double vote no one wants to go first and wants to just sheep me. It’s really annoying.

[MathBlade]

Gun to my head I think Herta is the DA and Meg is trying to look like the DA as scum. But it could just be that Meg actually is the DA and I am drinking too much metaphorical wine.

[MathBlade]

Going to be afk for holiday stuff a bit. Probably can post later.

Mainly have to eventually suck it up and decide the plan I just don’t like that is the situation. I kinda think we are getting lost in the weeds a bit. We have one piece to solve today. The DA. The rest in theory handles itself unless I am missing something.

[MathBlade]

Going to be afk for holiday stuff a bit. Probably can post later.

Mainly have to eventually suck it up and decide the plan I just don’t like that is the situation. I kinda think we are getting lost in the weeds a bit. We have one piece to solve today. The DA. The rest in theory handles itself unless I am missing something.

Gth, I think Herta’s more likely to be DA than Mega. Herta contraidicted himself by saying I get 2 votes, than later saying I’m a “ big hole” for him. Mega not doubting my HN claim and assuming she can win today with Herta heal looks not DA and possibly +town.

Do you agree?

~N

I agree with that theory.

However I also can see Meg as a DA knowing they lose no matter what being despondent.

I can make an argument for either so I am just sort of picking at this point based on nothing but gut.

[MathBlade]

I think Nancy this is one of those times where we don’t wanna brain meat too much.

With flipping one and elimming the other we should at least be insured scum don’t get a day vig.

At worst we have 2 scum elo. At best we win. We can see who scum kill.

With how many miselims there have been seeing who scum kill if we don’t just win outright is the best.

I believe you are the hidden noble Nancy.

I think we learn from who scum kills overnight if it happens.

[MathBlade]

I’m currently leaning to Herta as DA but I think Math’s suggestion that we leal one and lim the other is best because we really can’t be sure and if we get it wrong, then scum gets a free daykill tomorrow, so rn leaning to healing Herta and limming you and if you’re telling the truth about not being DA and are town, you should definitely be onboard with that since we autowin in that case.

~Nancy

I am nowhere near caught up but I hard scumread Mathblade here. like HARD scumread.

-A

Seriously Noraa?

Talk to me in discord because I totally don’t get it.

~N

Please do. Noraa I don’t think has TR’d me in a looooooong time.

I think that if Noraa does scumread me the best place to sort that out is tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

I’m currently leaning to Herta as DA but I think Math’s suggestion that we leal one and lim the other is best because we really can’t be sure and if we get it wrong, then scum gets a free daykill tomorrow, so rn leaning to healing Herta and limming you and if you’re telling the truth about not being DA and are town, you should definitely be onboard with that since we autowin in that case.

~Nancy

I am nowhere near caught up but I hard scumread Mathblade here. like HARD scumread.

-A

Seriously Noraa?

Talk to me in discord because I totally don’t get it.

~N

Please do. Noraa I don’t think has TR’d me in a looooooong time.

I think that if Noraa does scumread me the best place to sort that out is tomorrow.

Math, Noraa thinks you’re both being too nice and too “wishy washy” to quote her. I still think you’re town for your stances which read protown to me but you are not usually this nice to me in any game ever where you know my main. So maybe explain that part and I can dispense with any paranoia on your slot.

I pretty much said everyone’s opinions don’t matter except on DA. I wouldn’t call that nice. I gave an opinion Herta DA gun to my head and Meg is scum trying to sound like a defeated DA. If Noraa scumreads me tomorrow let’s sort it out then.

I haven’t been wishy washy, but I have been lazy and noncommital because either A) we win or B) tomorrow is elo with less slots to sort or C) we lose.

I then can focus narrowly on what matters. Who we elim and who we noble

[MathBlade]

Trying to get in your head here since that doesn't really make sense to me

A lot of your posts are kinda negative let me get a sample

[MathBlade]

Also I will give fair warning I will selfhammer if it would leave Herta as noble. I will not self vote without hammer given that scum could change plurality to another player and win. (Especially since my vote is the only one that would be counted for herta)



Should be a given but wanted to mention

This one here. You’re talking self hammering when we haven’t decided which way.

It’s very “whelp this is my last day no matter what and I have no way to achieve my win con let’s just hammer me and end it” energy

[MathBlade]

The only alignment that wouldnt be a win for is if I was mafia

Yeah exactly. I think you’re either A) a DA who loses no matter what so you’re having fun with it
Or B) Mafia working towards a win con by dying and trying to look like DA so you don’t lose by us elimming Herta.

[MathBlade]

So to clarify do you think I'm trying to be the noble vote today?

Y/N

I think you have a strategic plan of some kind and are begging for hammers. I don’t know the full plan though.

[MathBlade]

So to clarify do you think I'm trying to be the noble vote today?

Y/N

I think you have a strategic plan of some kind and are begging for hammers. I don’t know the full plan though.

I'll put it this way
If you think I am not trying to be noblized today, then you think I am either not mafia, or Herta is not DA. Nothing else makes logical sense.

Realistically my strategic plan is I know DA and we automatically noble him and therefore win when I am elimmed. I'd be happy to expedite that.

Incorrect. Mafia you would aim for noble if Herta is DA because scum you knows Herta is DA and making Herta noble = you loss

[MathBlade]

I agree. therefore if I am not aiming to make myself noble, I am either not mafia or know Herta is not DA, which is what I said

But you begged for hammers? So you do want noble?

[MathBlade]

You don’t want noble*

[MathBlade]

Which is odd…

* logs out to do some thinking *

I hate this wine

[MathBlade]

You just socially feel scum to me and I don’t know why. Anytime I read your posts I just see scum.

[MathBlade]

I figured out what I don’t like I think.

I don’t like Meg and Herta agree.

It makes me really want to noble Meg and elim Herta.

[MathBlade]

I think you’re wrong but I understand the argument. I am not too attached to my way though as it’s pure gut and haven’t read and to be honest probably won’t have time to.

[MathBlade]

I think you’re wrong but I understand the argument. I am not too attached to my way though as it’s pure gut and haven’t read and to be honest probably won’t have time to.

Actually after sleeping, I reversed my position. Mega is acting super scummy in the hopes that we’ll elim her. Herta otoh, is trying to sound townier, so he’s probably either mafia or town.

I think we should heal Mega and lim Herta, just to be safe. Also Mega hasn’t questioned my being hidden noble but Herta has.

And as you pointed out they’re agreeing which is definitely suss. It’s in both mafia’s and DA’s interest that we lim DA and heal mafia but in case we’re wrong, one of them has to be healed and the other limmed. Also Herta was happy when he thought he might get two votes, someone you wouldn’t expect DA to say but because of:




~N

Going to be working so let me know when you want to pull the trigger.

I forget which way voting had to go to confirm you noble.

[MathBlade]

So then you vote then I vote and I think we are good? Then we just have to make sure elim happens yeah?

[MathBlade]

Explain it like I am 5 please?

I am trying to put out work fires

[MathBlade]

I think the part where I am struggling is I can see scum angles from almost every player alive. I hunt by motivation and the why people are saying what they are and if things logically match the emotions.

And right now without a scum flip I know the following
-> Town flips DA scum lose. So it should seem almost a third buddy for noble votes. But that’s contrasted by scum just not getting the dayvig. So then scum probably might argue for who they think is not DA today. I think that’s the major takeaway. So I think players who are more open like PBR are less likely to be scum.

-> Scum know the players who are likely going to die (namely Meg and Herta). If one is scum the other DA then scum know they’d be wanting to jockey for position making the players we aren’t sorting white noise. So whoever is scum would be aiming to make their player look as good as possible. So I think it would be best to review before today for most associations. We still end up with 2 deaths but then it’s 1 v 5 and that remaining scum has to survive two miselims.

-> In a town one DA other world then we end up in a win or elo scenario for scum if my math is right. Then if we noble DA we win, if we noble the Townie and elim the DA then night kill. Two deaths so 7 alive brings us to a 5 standoff.

So the main part of why I am confused is I don’t know which end game scum are preparing for. So then I don’t know if scum are aiming to be townread or aiming to paint someone as scum.

Can someone provide me some thoughts?

[MathBlade]

(And yes I know technically there’s others that can be DA like PBE but I find that super rare so I am discounting that)

[MathBlade]

I don’t like your post. It’s obvious I’m telling the truth about HN here and I find posts suggesting otherwise pretty damned scummy.

No CC and Enchant is now my top townread. Anyone currently doubting I’m HN here is outright scumclaiming imo.

I also wouldn’t be pushing so hard to be on hammered wagon if I was lying here, Duh!

HEAL: Herta

~N

Who is this at Nancy? I literally said I am not considering a you HN world.

[MathBlade]

You ready to do this? I will go with what you want in the am. I just have this feeling that it should be Meg we noble.

I don’t have a good explanation for it or reason other than my gut says so.

But in the am I will follow you if that’s what you want.

[MathBlade]

I kinda feel Herta and Meg are trying too hard to seem DA like and only one can be.

I think Herta is doing it worse so noble Meg?

[MathBlade]

Yes I own stock in Waffle House

[MathBlade]

Fair enough, as long as we make sure Herta is out of the game one way or another we can discuss this tomorrow

???

What? Did you just DA slip here?

You do realize that if Herta’s DA, there is no tomorrow. Town wins if DA’s nobled.

~N

Yeah, but I was referring to you and math wanting to noble me and elim Herta, which does lead to a tomorrow

If you’re town here and not DA, you should want to be limmed and Herta healed. As town you want the DA healed, so game ends in a town win.

Because fypov if you’re not DA, Herta has to be and you don’t just say you want him out of the game. If you’re town you 100% want Herta healed and you limmed.

There’s nothing to sort out in that case.

~N

Yes, in the case where you heal herta and elim me I don't need to sort, but you and Math control the elim and support not doing that so most likely I will need to solve this game tomorrow unless you flip-flop again

Here’s an example.

If you were town being elimmed you’d need to sort for last reads.
If you were scum being elimmed you’d want to pretend to be town.

This leaves DA

[MathBlade]

If I'm town being eliminated in this context I win since DA is nobled

I don’t like how you’re locking this in though
It’s most likely but I think town you would be paranoid of the edge cases and still hunt.

[MathBlade]

If I'm town being eliminated in this context I win since DA is nobled

I don’t like how you’re locking this in though
It’s most likely but I think town you would be paranoid of the edge cases and still hunt.

The only edge case I can think of making sense involves me not being town (that being Me/Herta as the scumteam and PBE as DA) I know this isn't true
And it's not like this statement is super reflective of my play in general, it's justifying the reason I have to give reads since my previous post about how I did actually want to sort was misinterpreted. The fact I shouldn't be sorting was not given by me, but PBE

Why do you say you and Herta can’t be scum, PBE being DA trying to ensure their death overnight and scum in lurkers?

I don’t believe in this world to be clear but I fail to see why town!you doesn’t consider it.

[MathBlade]

Can’t be town*

[MathBlade]

I think Herta is very likely DA here. I’m trying to decide if Mega’s town or mafia but we probably need to lim her just in case regardless.

Herta’s response is not townie, so if he’s not DA, he’s very likely mafia but I also think he’s trying to look like mafia, which means that gth he’s most likely DA.

If there were any other likely DA candidates left, I’d lean to thinking Herta’s just scum but because it really isn’t, I think he’s most likely DA here. He’s trying way too hard to not sound like DA here.

I would still like to solve Mega before I vote, eventhough I think she needs to be limmed just in case but rn leaning to nobilize obv DA Herta and lim Mega.

I don’t see how Herta isn’t DA after that last post.

See I think Herta is trying so hard to seem like DA because Herta is mafia.

[MathBlade]

I think Herta is very likely DA here. I’m trying to decide if Mega’s town or mafia but we probably need to lim her just in case regardless.

Herta’s response is not townie, so if he’s not DA, he’s very likely mafia but I also think he’s trying to look like mafia, which means that gth he’s most likely DA.

If there were any other likely DA candidates left, I’d lean to thinking Herta’s just scum but because it really isn’t, I think he’s most likely DA here. He’s trying way too hard to not sound like DA here.

I would still like to solve Mega before I vote, eventhough I think she needs to be limmed just in case but rn leaning to nobilize obv DA Herta and lim Mega.

I don’t see how Herta isn’t DA after that last post.

See I think Herta is trying so hard to seem like DA because Herta is mafia.

I just don’t think Mega sounds like DA to me but I’ll wait. Herta’s not town is my most salient take away. So my problem with your reasons is what necessarily makes Mega DA?

Why can’t Herta be DA?

It’s too neat. If Herta is scum their only option is to sound like the DA. If they sound town or scum then we noble DA!Meg. So Herta has to sound like the DA or lose.

[MathBlade]

I don’t understand Math why your take is that Herta’s trying to sound like DA because he’s mafia as opposed to DA trying to look like mafia?

Also why is Mega DA?

Imagine Herta is mafia for a minute. In that world, Herta likely knows that Meg is the DA. Herta can’t openly argue that Meg isn’t the DA so he/they(I am unsure of your pronouns sorry) has to argue that maybe it’s elsewhere but really they’re the better DA candidate. If we noble Meg, Herta’s team loses. So Herta has no choice but to look more of a DA than the actual DA of Meg.

Meg is DA by gut and PoE.

I just think that Herta is too blatantly DA to be the DA. It reeks of desperation when the actual DA wins either way.

[MathBlade]

Actual DA wins either way of Meg’s alignment*

[MathBlade]

You can ISO me for details as I have a headache but it’s more lots of little things that ping me. It’s more a collection of little pings not a case itself.

The DA itself doesn’t have the same desperation except to not be nobled. Herta is putting a lot of reads for someone who doesn’t care.

As for who is Herta’s buddy I have no idea. I honestly have a headache and haven’t done anything vote related here because it’s a 50/50. If there is a tomorrow then I will focus on it. As I said too much setup spec is white noise.

The amount of people on the Herta wagon is sus.

[MathBlade]

Still willing to sheep you.

You said you’re still making up your mind.

I expressed my opinion, I am just waiting on you to be sure enough in yours I can sheep you.

[MathBlade]

*nods*

[MathBlade]

*nods*

So you agree with me then? I think Herta unvoting Mega suddenly like that probably means I’m right about him being DA and Mega mafia.

Because both of our votes + Herta’s mean autowin for town I think, so probably is Herta DA and Mega/NM scum. NM usually pushes his buddy too in a lot of his scumgames and both were hard sr the other or rather Junko.

~N

The nods was me agreeing with you asking Meg questions.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Herta is panicked. I think Herta is playing panicked.

You remember Heroes right?

That game was all about pretending things were cozy when we were about to dayvig them until we had to audible.

Herta gives me the same vibes. It’s just so way overdone.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Herta is panicked. I think Herta is playing panicked.

You remember Heroes right?

That game was all about pretending things were cozy when we were about to dayvig them until we had to audible.

Herta gives me the same vibes. It’s just so way overdone.

He knows we both have two votes and you can hammer him as DA. Are you for real?

~N

I am.

[MathBlade]

I still don't track your logic on why you think I should be locking you as town, and your insistance on me being able to is frustrating.
It's bad reasoning because I, as town, see you saying that me, as town, should be obviously seeing something that I am not obviously seeing. You are contradicting reality, more than just a wrong conclusion, but the wrong assumption town!me should've seen this because I don't.

Like I'm trying to have a fairly civil discourse here but you aren't really adressing my concerns WHY is HN close to conftown, or WHY you should be conftown if herta is DA. I don't see the reasoning for your claims that are actually compelling in any way shape or form.

Eira and you are listed twice because you appear twice in my list of scumteam, at least when I listed them back then.
This persistance is making me reconsider a bit as it feels more towny than not. I'd suppose that's leave something like a N_M Mathblade as the most likely? Fairly irrelevant.

I’m currently healing the player you’re insisting is DA which if true is an autotown win. If you think I’m mafia doing that then I’m going to catch a ban for playing against wincon.

~N

That assumes you, as mafia, know who DA is

If mafia was good at that DA wouldve been HNed long ago

I think it’s blatantly beyond obvious to me now that Herta’s DA and Mega’s mafia. If Mega was DA here, she’d be 100% onboard here.

~N

You need to remember that Meg as DA wants to pretend to be mafia and Herta as mafia wants to pretend to be DA. They’re both pretending because it meets their ends.

[MathBlade]

At any rate, since both are so obviously scum now, I’d say I’m pretty damned certain Eira was HN’d now. And I guess I could possibly see both Elements and Passenger correctly reading Junko as scum but the wrong one. My fear is that Herta really did panic and Mega is legit unhappy with my vote but at least we now have confirmation that’s she’s not town or even trying to pretend to be.

~N

I think at the end of the day we have to pull the trigger one way or the other and nobling Meg gives us the win and elimming Herta is the best bet. Could I be wrong? Sure. It’s why I want to get my feels out to you then whenever you say you’re sure go. In any way forward it’s just a game.

[MathBlade]

Gun to my head, NM or Enchant. They both feel really lassezfaire about events atm.

When I was scum with NM he legit forgot he needed to submit a kill and lack of posting could be dude forgot about the game.

Enchant’s content is pretty lacking. It feels defeated.

I would need to do a VCA for which but one of those two is my best bet for Meg’s partner.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Herta

I bet NM doesn’t have the troll in him to heal Meg. Clearly he’s not trolly enough.

[MathBlade]

I was right. NM doesn’t have the ability to troll hard enough. Shocker /s

He only has small level troll, no big trolling.

[MathBlade]

I still adore him

I adore him too. But he clearly is not on his top troll game. It makes me sad.

I was expecting top NM trolling. Not this

Sadge

[MathBlade]

I am not voting with Herta

That’s so sus though.

Surely you can see why.

[MathBlade]

Hey Math why you goating NM in healing Meg.

Because I think Meg is the DA.

NM not wanting to heal DA is sus.

Since NM doesn’t usually listen to traditional arguments goading him is a good reaction test.

So Meg and NM probably the scum team.

[MathBlade]

Hey Math why you goating NM in healing Meg.

Because I think Meg is the DA.

So Meg and NM probably the scum team.

THESE CAN'T BE IN ONE POST

I merged thoughts

Meg is the DA and Herta and NM scum team.

I was so focused on Meg I wrote her name twice

MathBlade.exe has crashed

[MathBlade]

What do I provide if not entertainment?

[MathBlade]

Alrighty let’s go

HEAL: Mega

You ready for me to vote Herta?

I am unclear on your post.

[MathBlade]

I'm fine with this given you two give a full chance to reassess my slot tomorrow

I don’t think there is a tomorrow because you’re DA but if there is of course whoever is alive would reevaluate

[MathBlade]

Because if you're arguing I'm DA today then it's because I'm acting like DA which is not how mafia acts.

You’re not acting like town and NM healed us not either of you, so NM is now confiscum and both NM and Junko were trying to get the other limmed.

@Math I want to do some ISOs especially on NM/Junko just to be certain. Because NM did hardbus his buddy on d1 of Diffusion of Power, so I especially want to see if either NM or Junko was ever in actual danger. Both were pushing each other, so knowing NM is confiscum gives us new info, so I just want to check that out first.

~N

Cool. Standing by.

@Meg - It is. I have a 50/50 and I believe in the way I have picked. At some point you just have to pick because you can wine yourself into no elim which is very very bad. If I am right *yay we win* if not then just a game and try again in elo or if you’re scum an extra day.

[MathBlade]

Because if you're arguing I'm DA today then it's because I'm acting like DA which is not how mafia acts.

You’re not acting like town and NM healed us not either of you, so NM is now confiscum and both NM and Junko were trying to get the other limmed.

@Math I want to do some ISOs especially on NM/Junko just to be certain. Because NM did hardbus his buddy on d1 of Diffusion of Power, so I especially want to see if either NM or Junko was ever in actual danger. Both were pushing each other, so knowing NM is confiscum gives us new info, so I just want to check that out first.

~N

Cool. Standing by.

@Meg - It is. I have a 50/50 and I believe in the way I have picked. At some point you just have to pick because you can wine yourself into no elim which is very very bad. If I am right *yay we win* if not then just a game and try again in elo or if you’re scum an extra day.

If you believe in it you can hammer Herta rather than waiting on passing blame to PBE if you are wrong.

FYPOV they should be able to be scum and I really dislike your willingness to blindly sheep the slot.

You say you've made up your mind then commit to it.

You say it's a 50/50 expect me to do everything in my power to convince you to acheive my win con regardless of if I am Town, Mafia, or DA. That is how I play especially in Elo scenarios. That's how I play here, as town

I have made up my mind.

However I townread PBE and want her to be set in the case I am wrong.

[MathBlade]

Like explain to me how you know who DA is exactly as scum

Everyone but you and Herta has either been elected or made hidden noble. I know I am, Enchant’s officially confirmed, if Eira had lied, NM would have been pushing him. Therefore, no other possibilities for DA - other than you or Herta exist.

That’s why town!you should have lockcleared me for my Herta heal/you vote.

~N

If Eira lied and NM is scum then technically NM has no reason to push Eira when they can hidden noble him tomorrow. I don’t believe that world but that is factually false.

[MathBlade]

So in that case, I would be VT, you would be scum, and Herta would be DA, and you would want to heal Herta?

?? I wouldn’t be scum in that world?? I obviously don’t believe that world.

I don’t follow your point.

[MathBlade]

And if you can't isn't it possible you may think I am DA even if I am truly VT?

It is possible yes. I just don’t find it probable/worth following.

I don’t see why I would sell a view point I disagree with.

[MathBlade]

Like explain to me how you know who DA is exactly as scum

Everyone but you and Herta has either been elected or made hidden noble. I know I am, Enchant’s officially confirmed, if Eira had lied, NM would have been pushing him. Therefore, no other possibilities for DA - other than you or Herta exist.

That’s why town!you should have lockcleared me for my Herta heal/you vote.

~N

If Eira lied and NM is scum then technically NM has no reason to push Eira when they can hidden noble him tomorrow. I don’t believe that world but that is factually false.

Well that’s true but I don’t believe Eira lied because why would scum have hidden nobilized me then? But I would think it logical for scum!NM to have pushed Eira because it looks scummy af for him to not do that but then we’re talking about NM, so anything’s possible, I guess but I don’t think Eira lied because NM was already elected noble and he renounced his claim.

~N

Like I said I don’t believe in the world but it is possible.

[MathBlade]

NM literally forgot to send in a kill when I was traitor and I was stuck scrambling because Titus was the protective and blocked no one. Never discount lazy not mafia.

[MathBlade]

Why does Nancy have to prove to scum they’re not scum?

That seems fruitless and a waste of time. If we elim you and you are town we can solve it tomorrow.

This fight is a big blow up over nothing.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade,
Because this is the crux of Nancy's argument WHY I'm scum

I know this to be untrue and so I am proving the argument false

You’re not explaining anything by making Nancy or I explain what we don’t believe?

I don’t get it.

This feels like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks.

[MathBlade]

Not because I think Nancy is scum, it's because Nancy thinks I should 100% know she is town, and because I am saying I don't, she is saying I cannot be town

I tend to agree with this.

Who is the hidden noble if not PBE?

I don’t see why scum PBE lies here?

[MathBlade]

How is that relevant? Nancy is saying I should think she is town for a specific reason I think is false.

I think she is town for a different reason.

The problem is Nancy is essentially saying "I voted a person you had a guilty on once and then unvoted, so you should think I am Town 100% and you are evil if you think this does not make me conftown"

Which is an obviously ridiculous statement and that's the main argument she's using to push me as scum

Does it honestly matter here Meg?

Let’s look at it from a you town Herta DA angle.

We noble you and elim Herta.

Then it’s unlikely scum kill you at that point over PBE or me.

Then Herta exits and gets their win. Scum have a night kill.

We are at 5 alive into tomorrow. Then you with the better reads because you’re town exist over me or Nancy who are obvTown but made a mistake.

[MathBlade]

HURT: Mega

I’m not sure Herta’s not the DA.

You’ve got to be kidding me

HURT: Meg

[MathBlade]

And where is your ISO hunting?

This feels like you’re being contrary for the sake of it.

[MathBlade]

I did when you were posting thoughts that were present. I am not weighing on Eira’s posts because they’re long ramble posts that do nothing but say I am scum without a reason why: I obviously disagree.

You’re being contrary for the sake of it because you didn’t ISO anyone or you’d reach the conclusion Herta isn’t the DA. You also didn’t post conclusions. Yes I said I would sheep you but that was when you were posting reasons why. You’re not anymore. It’s like you abandoned reason just because it’s me.

And Eira doesn’t make sense it’s all just Math + NM without reason and I know it’s false

[MathBlade]

MegAzumarill was eliminated. MegAzumarill was

Spoiler: MegAzumarill

Dark Angel

. MegAzumarill exits the game in a win.

Herta has been elected as Noble for Night 4. There is no noble mechanic once the game reaches 3:2.

Day 5 begins in (expired on 2022-12-24 13:44:01). Fast Night is possible if all living players agree.

So it’s just Nancy + Nora and maybe Herta?

Nancy didn’t want to do Meg with me because she would lose and didn’t want to show her ISOing but she fucked up her votes?

Like that’s the vibe I have.

[MathBlade]

The reason for them Nobling themselves as scum is if they didn’t get the hidden noble the DA and just killed the DA then Nancy/Nora slot would be outed scum.

[MathBlade]

I mean let’s play along a moment.

In what world do you think insulting me has me listen to anything you’re saying?

[MathBlade]

I did when you were posting thoughts that were present. I am not weighing on Eira’s posts because they’re long ramble posts that do nothing but say I am scum without a reason why: I obviously disagree.

You’re being contrary for the sake of it because you didn’t ISO anyone or you’d reach the conclusion Herta isn’t the DA. You also didn’t post conclusions. Yes I said I would sheep you but that was when you were posting reasons why. You’re not anymore. It’s like you abandoned reason just because it’s me.

And Eira doesn’t make sense it’s all just Math + NM without reason and I know it’s false

Are you just not reading? I believed Meg was DA not noble.

[MathBlade]

I don’t see a town Herta world here.

[MathBlade]

And scum can’t hidden noble themselves because?

[MathBlade]

And scum can’t hidden noble themselves because?

Why does scum nobilize me if Enchant self-nobilized? Makes absolutely no sense.

And he was willing to heal/vote either way so had no agenda with his heal/vote.

Scum absolutely wanted/needed that daykill, so it’s counterintuitive for them not to try to find DA.

No idea? I was just pointing out the flaw in Herta’s argument as I know I am town. I figured since the main premise was destroyed the rest is fruit from the poisonous tree and glazed over it.

[MathBlade]

And scum can’t hidden noble themselves because?

Why does scum nobilize me if Enchant self-nobilized? Makes absolutely no sense.

And he was willing to heal/vote either way so had no agenda with his heal/vote.

Scum absolutely wanted/needed that daykill, so it’s counterintuitive for them not to try to find DA.

No idea? I was just pointing out the flaw in Herta’s argument as I know I am town. I figured since the main premise was destroyed the rest is fruit from the poisonous tree and glazed over it.

I think Herta’s scum by his heal/vote because he knew he wasn’t DA and I think he knew I had 2 votes and that Mega would hammer.

Why does town help put DA at E-1 here ever? Like for anyone else. that would be nia but for Herta who knew it had to be Mega, I think it has to be him.

I’d rather focus one at a time.

Btw me + PBE clear

[MathBlade]

I think Herta is the obvious vote here but just want to wait for NM to post before I vote but I think it’s Herta/NM. My gut is screaming for Herta to ear rope.

I am definitely in wait and see mode.

[MathBlade]

I got some Marvel Midnight Suns while we wait. I figure will see where the chips fall when they do.

[MathBlade]

I think it's definitely awkward for sure.

[MathBlade]

If it’s not exactly Herta/NM, some serious gamethrowing is happening.

NM is person i expect to gamethrow. So not really sure it condemns him.

What does your solve look like?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Herta

Let's do this. I want a Christmas scum flip.

Help me "bus".

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Not mafia

[MathBlade]

you told me to hammer I couldn't hammer til you voted XD

[MathBlade]

Sorry Nancy. Noraa soul reads me and is one of the few who can

I mean

[MathBlade]

Btw, Nancy you were not killed so you could have your glory of eliminating me so Enchant could take it.

I figured you could use some good vibes since you seemed stressed. I was like not thinking most of the day to avoid spew.

I was shocked by the NM vote tbh.

I honestly thought we lost and Herta was the DA. I was so happy to be wrong. lol

[MathBlade]

I didn't see the Herta + NM as viable because of a few different reasons.

[MathBlade]

lol I played so poorly.

gg

You didn't play poorly. You were just alienated which can create weird reads. You did really good for the state you were in game wise. I applaud the effort. Most of what you said (that I bothered to read) was really good and accurate.

GG

[MathBlade]

NM gamethrew. That’s not okay,

So don’t pat yourself on the back for that Math.

Not sure how he game threw besides not voting at the end, but that didn't matter as Herta already had?

But okay sure? I won't pat myself on the back for something I don't get?

[MathBlade]

Sorry Nancy. Noraa soul reads me and is one of the few who can

I mean

awe was barely active bc i was playing an org

@Noraa You're underrated on how good you are as town on the site IMHO.

Okay? I don't take props? I don't remember an NM self vote? Maybe before my replace in?

The scum team was me and Enchant Nancy.

[MathBlade]

Oh I thought he self-voted. nm

I think you're just stressed. I kinda wish it had gone with eliminate me tbh. I think that would have been more fun for everyone involved. I didn't expect the NM sus that hard.

[MathBlade]

I explained earlier here. Eira died because I didn't think Herta + NM was viable. So I figured to have Enchant go deep I probably die. The easiest way for me to die was you to push me especially since you were saying Enchant = conf town for imho bad reasons.

[MathBlade]

I really do. I don't remember a game where you've been wrong on me Noraa and most people read me wrong.

[MathBlade]

I don't think I do, but I don't think this is the proper place for that conversation?

[MathBlade]

Anywho gg. I'm going to go finish my boss fight now.

[MathBlade]

Sure when we aren’t in any games together. I have to check.

[MathBlade]

No redactions.

[MathBlade]

What did I do?

You didn’t do anything. PBE messed up who was voting where