Mini Normal 2317 - Postgame

[Bingle]

Wow, been forever since I’ve seen a 12 person normal.

VOTE: elements

[Bingle]

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Wdym? IC is actually a very weak role in the wider spectrum of things. Basically the only thing we can deduce there is that there’s some method of kill prevention but that it’s not foolproof.

Well… there’s a lot of other minor considerations, but that’s the one that’s most likely to be relevant.

[Bingle]

@Bingle Mustn't that be said for every game of Mafia?

Nope! You may not know me, but the vast majority of my effort on site is balancing and reviewing games, so I can speak with some measure of authority on theory and setup concerns. This setup, by having an IC is less likely to have things like doc without scum interference roles, massively less likely to have things like JK, and reasonably likely to have things like babysitter or bodyguard.

I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?

VOTE: KeyLaga

Hey Random great recent game as JK! Played scum like a fiddle! Can you please go into more detail on how IC is connected to more heat for scum? Thanks!

Well, tbh I've never played with an IC before, so it just felt OP to have someone already confirmed. Hopefully there's some sort of protection though.

Thanks for the compliment too.

[Bingle]

Hit submit prematurely. IC with no protective balances as a designated N1 kill which is a pretty ass role to get and thus very unlikely.

[Bingle]

Hey, elements, the only person to have claimed informed, could you let me know if your info flips when you do or not. Can’t remember the ruling for normals and I’m not really interested in going on a wiki hunt.

[Bingle]

Hey, elements, the only person to have claimed informed, could you let me know if your info flips when you do or not. Can’t remember the ruling for normals and I’m not really interested in going on a wiki hunt.

Flavor Leaf also did

Whom?

[Bingle]

Cool, 2 other people come vote bingle

Do you have a grudge against me I’m unaware of? Cause this is legitimately starting to feel personal.

[Bingle]

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

I thought it sounded like scum speaking in the "we" as opposed to the town "we" (yes, tenuous at best). But then he revealed he is a game designer and I realized there was no way he could scum-slip there.

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

There’s a couple things bugging me, I can drop a vote there
VOTE: Bingle

Oh?

[Bingle]

I’m more interested in what’s bugging Gamma, tbh. Your dance around my wagon is interes, but not something I’m actively engaging with.

[Bingle]

Why did you say there were 12 players?
Why did you only acknowledge one of the informed claims?

Because the playerlist has 12 people in the OP and I didn’t see Kitty’s soft before making that post. What do you think my reading comprehension implies alignment wise?

[Bingle]

Why did you explicitly ask Elements to confirm his role by the Mod?
Why did you feign difficulty with the Wiki?

I asked elements for a confirmable aspect of a role she’d claimed because I’m mobile and didn’t want to look it up. In theme games whether the informed flips with or without info is a setup decision and I couldn’t remember the rules on informed in normals off the top of my head.

[Bingle]

@ Khaos: How many scum do you think we have?

2-4

Alt or newbie?

[Bingle]

Cool, 2 other people come vote bingle

Do you have a grudge against me I’m unaware of? Cause this is legitimately starting to feel personal.

Did I try get you to e-1 day one last time too?
I just want a game where we get every player to e-1 day 1

3rd game in a row. Don’t particularly have an issue with it, just wanted to know if there was a grudge so I could avoid signing up for games you were in if there was.

[Bingle]

Are you deliberately avoiding acknowledging Flavor Leaf in any manner this game?

Who?

[Bingle]

INTENTION TO RETURN BINGLE TO L-1

VOTE: keylaga
We've done it once we can do it again

Nah, they're very much 2W2BW atm. Not interested for D1.

Cool, 2 other people come vote bingle

Do you have a grudge against me I’m unaware of? Cause this is legitimately starting to feel personal.

Did I try get you to e-1 day one last time too?
I just want a game where we get every player to e-1 day 1

3rd game in a row. Don’t particularly have an issue with it, just wanted to know if there was a grudge so I could avoid signing up for games you were in if there was.

Not at all, I enjoy games with you.
I would say I'll remember not to go for you first next time but given how well it went today I'm thinking maybe I'll start trying to speed run Bingle% to get to you e-1 within the first page

Oh, feel free. I don't actually have a problem with being run up early, it just seemed odd that it kept happening specifically at your behest. Feel free to keep running me up out the gate.

Also, I successfully meta townread you last game. It hasn't been stresstested yet, but I feel fairly confident that if you're town I can recognize that.

[Bingle]

In other news, GE actually has the worst vote on me.

VOTE: GE

[Bingle]

@ Khaos: How many scum do you think we have?

2-4

May I ask how you arrived at this range of figures?

We have 13 players so 5 would be too much and 1 would be too little. If I had to guess a single number, I would say... 3. Because where I usually play mafia, we tend to have the mafia be 1/4th of the living players starting out and 1/4th of 12 is 3. But I don't know how things work here.

Almost certainly 10:3, because 11:2 is roughly balanced ish for mountainous and no one likes playing mountainous and 9:4 is very scumsided so we'd have to have an absurd amount of town power. You not knowing that is why I was wondering about your alt status.

[Bingle]

I think I see it
VOTE: KeyLaga

Wanna talk about how KL is the lowest hanging of all LHF right now and you're prevaricating on whether you see a reason to vote them?

[Bingle]

no one likes playing mountainous

I love playing mountinous....


...irl

Fair point. No one likes to play mountainous outside of F2F, Marathon, or chat settings.

[Bingle]

Well this is quite the pickle then. I'll just hang out and wait around.

[Bingle]

KT town. It'd be very interesting if there was a town role that was informed that there was a scum role that was informed that there was a town role that was informed that another role exists.

Someone go make that setup.

[Bingle]

HOW DARE YOU.

(this'll be a VC)

/inb4 post 1000 is a bloop

[Bingle]

Bingle/Key/Kitty/Cele good start

I also got good vibes on OWER, we'll see if that solidifies.

[Bingle]

I just explained why I would rather not try to put it in my own words
Do you have any other questions?

Sure, key is awkward, super concerned with the way they are seen, and wholly focused on optics, all of which is very surface level scummy.

But the pushes they’re making have a thought process that tracks. They’re coming up with ridiculous theories, but they’re coming up with ridiculous theories that absolutely look like someone trying to figure shit out, not someone coming up with theories to have theories.

Compare, there’s this person named Gamma who was pushing me over not acknowledging someone who doesn’t exist, regardless of the fact that there’s absolutely no alignment reason to do so. And Gamma is just as self conscious about how they’re coming off, as shown in

Spoiler:

I’m not hard set on Flavor being town but if Key ends up flipping scum I’ll feel pretty good on Flavor

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

I thought it sounded like scum speaking in the "we" as opposed to the town "we" (yes, tenuous at best). But then he revealed he is a game designer and I realized there was no way he could scum-slip there.

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

There’s a couple things bugging me, I can drop a vote there
VOTE: Bingle

VOTE: Key Laga

I think I see it
VOTE: KeyLaga

for now my vote is just sheeping Flavor Leaf

I just explained why I would rather not try to put it in my own words
Do you have any other questions?

[Bingle]

I’m not hard set on Flavor being town but if Key ends up flipping scum I’ll feel pretty good on Flavor

Ew.

[Bingle]

Fwiw it wasn’t supposed to be in said spoiler. The issue with that is definitely not “being self conscious”.

I just forgot that I’d had it quote+’d in another tab.

Now do you want to engage with kl being lhf and you wanting to vote there and not be accountable for said vote?

[Bingle]

Bingle vaguepushed me in a recent game where we were both town and this feels like a similar vibe so I’m just gonna tune out the push until he decides to play the game

Nice Shade, Gamma

[Bingle]

WRT Flavor Leaf, I literally joined this game on the back of his presence. We work very well together, when both town. He was in my first modded game and I have reviewed or comodded quite a few games with him. In fact, he reached out to me to comod/review a game not long before this one started.

I was intentionally ignoring his presence in this game to see what he would do about it. I was, to put it simply, unimpressed. He 'derailed' a shit wagon on me, sure, but that wagon was going nowhere fast. KL also doesn't really get any cred for the unvote/vote/unvote bit wrt my wagon dissipating, for largely the same reason. If anything, the dance there was fucking awful. But that's kind of the point: KL was pushing me, got worried they might be wrong, freaked out, and then came back and doubled down. It's a bad progression for catching scum and for appearances, but it's a natural progression for someone who is legitimately trying to figure out what I'm doing.

[Bingle]

Anyone familiar with LAL?

Policy lims are a measure of last resort. We are no where near resorting to a policy lim this phase.

[Bingle]

Snip

Oh, I understood your case. I just didn't give it the time of day.

It relies on a few presumptions:

Ele is town.
KT's claim about being informed that scum know there is a protective is a lie, and therefore KT is scum.

So in order for me to be shopping the viability of non strongman kills on the IC I have to be scum with KT who also decided to risk a potential mechanical 1v1 with a town elements for the same info I was fishing for.

[Bingle]

Your wagon dissipated AFTER I unvoted

True, but it doesn't make you town. Scum you would just as easily have realized the wagon wasn't going to hit elimination and bailed. As far as a qh being a threat there... I was precisely 0% worried about that.

[Bingle]

I feel like engaging with you isn't really worth it? I get a feeling you don't care to genuinely sort me. That doesn't exactly make you scum, but it means I feel like my efforts are better placed elsewhere.

I may be accurately accused of assuming the worst of your posting so far.

I'm uninterested in an elements wagon at the moment (though not townreading her). Would you be interested in joining me on any of RN, OK, Naerys?

[Bingle]

Why are you townreading rn and naerys?

VOTE: khaos

[Bingle]

Its not the slot that matters, its the wagon leading to the claim, it just so happens that is where the wagon is, right at this moment. I don't care where the wagon is, I would say the same thing and would even want to speak with Kitty before doing anything drastic with Elements.

The game is not going to pause because you want to have a side chat with KT. We also are not likely to quicklim someone, and if that happens we'll certainly have content to spare.

[Bingle]

Doctor Drew replaces mayhemthrone.

Oh great, now I have to deal with a devil.

[Bingle]

I’m a rolecop with a N0 peek and I used it in whatever slot Dr. Drew is going to replace into. He’s a cult mentor.

Right here, drew.

[Bingle]

I’m a rolecop with a N0 peek and I used it in whatever slot Dr. Drew is going to replace into. He’s a cult mentor.

Right here, drew.

Ohhhh, ok ya she hit the nail right on the head there.

But you just ruined your chance to be recruited.

Jokes on you, I’m a combined mass lightning rod reflexive copycat.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Eiralox

[Bingle]

if bingle's reasons have anything to do with laga im not touching them them with a ten foot pole

if bingle has actual reasons whatever i'll check 'em

Are you asking if I’m voting you because laga says you’re scum? Because no.

I’m also not particularly interested in explaining the vote, so… good luck with the checking.

[Bingle]

First of all, both elements and chell are mildly sus based on the informed claims, and solely the informed claims.

However, key is absolutely wrong about elements’ claim being obvscum behavior. If elements claimed information that she didn’t actually have as scum informed, it paints a target on her back and kills the long term survivability of the slot. She will always be a little scummy associated with the claim, and scum elements would have known that.

Regardless of elements’ actual alignment, I’m not particularly interested in wagoning her atm because the game has been entirely too focused on the mech and not enough focused on the players themselves. And that’s coming from me. I don’t think we learn much of value from eel’s flip either way just yet, and I want to explore other directions. FMPOV there are some fairly town slots and a bunch of slots who are just kind of meh. I want to focus on other slots that are kind of meh to make them less kind of meh.

Eiralox, who is your biggest suspect outside of the ‘1v1’?

[Bingle]

I’ll probably post my notes on the plist tonight, but I do want to hear unvarnished thoughts before then. I know this feels like a bad idea, key, but for thread health could you drop the elements push for 48 hours?

[Bingle]

Can anyone find atleast some town mindset in Eira ISO? Bcz i dont see ANY

Wtf is this

U think im this bad at scum

U want townmindset?

Vote laga or outworlder.

Thats all the town mindset i need

Lim the scum

Hmmm. Comical third option.

VOTE: Naerys

[Bingle]

Eira here feels almost exactly like Eira town in TLich's GIdea, where they caught me on a bunch of completely wrong reasons and unflipped associatives with people who weren't my scummates (RH9 and Rat). Chell's push on Eira feels exactly like my push on Eira, but here's the kicker: I think that makes her town. I was absolutely convinced that Eira was scum there largely for all the same reasons Chell has discussed because it was multiball and I was genuinely looking for scum.

Naerys otoh, feels like an opportunistic pile on to someone who is getting a bunch of heat and refusing to engage over it. I'm also not a huge fan of the major uptick in activity right after I called out for people who hadn't done much of anything to receive scrutiny.

[Bingle]

Interesting about face on Key, Ele. Care to elaborate?

[Bingle]

Is this the only experience with them? Not that I am calling your read of them into question per se, but I would to see their scum game as well

Yeah. I wouldn't derail the lim over the meta, I just really don't like the pile on from Naerys. It feels skeevy.

[Bingle]

lynx, for reference. We both replaced in over N2.

viewtopic.php?p=13926840#p13926840

[Bingle]

The similarities are more tonal than anything else. Like, I'm seeing the same self confidence/assurance that was present throughout that game. I'm chalking up the difference in number of reads to the difference in amount of content atm.

[Bingle]

about 1% of my posts are bloops

But what percentage of your bloops are posts?

[Bingle]

I have a half finished reads list on my laptop. Prolly just gonna post it as is and finish it later, but please forgive me if it’s got any random sentences that are left

[Bingle]

Celebloki - I have a secret tinfoil theory that Celebloki is Informed Town, but I'm not pushing it so that scum doesn't try to kill him to stifle the information.

KeyLaga - I've talked about this, but Key seems like new and excited town, not new and excited scum to me. There's a lot of worry about how he's seen, but not in a way that seems AI, just in a way that seems vaguely self conscious about being in a brand new community. I think the fact that he's obviously self conscious and still actively trying to sort is good vibes. I agree with very little of what he's saying, but I certainly think HE believes what he's saying.

Doctor Drew - Drew is almost certainly town here. The reach outs to me seem natural, the desire to engage with me lines up entirely with the townread, and the complete willingness to disagree and make his own pushes when he does make me trust the shit out of our good doctor. 10/10, would whiskey again.

KittyTacky - Stale read, but almost entirely based on the claim/circumstances around the claim.

---

Chell - I actively didn't like FL's reaction to me on rep in, and honestly his informed claim seems way more in line with scum shopping for information than Ele's did. The

OutWorldER - Stale Read, but I remember there being town feels here.

Eiralox - The arrogance and aggression seem like a personality thing, not an alignment one, which is why I see them being pushed at the moment. I have feelings about their treatment of me being weirdly unconcerned with pocketing, but that's

---

Organized Khaos



Gamma Emerald
Naerys
Elements

[Bingle]

Celebloki - I have a secret tinfoil theory that Celebloki is Informed Town, but I'm not pushing it so that scum doesn't try to kill him to stifle the information.

KeyLaga - I've talked about this, but Key seems like new and excited town, not new and excited scum to me. There's a lot of worry about how he's seen, but not in a way that seems AI, just in a way that seems vaguely self conscious about being in a brand new community. I think the fact that he's obviously self conscious and still actively trying to sort is good vibes. I agree with very little of what he's saying, but I certainly think HE believes what he's saying.

Doctor Drew - Drew is almost certainly town here. The reach outs to me seem natural, the desire to engage with me lines up entirely with the townread, and the complete willingness to disagree and make his own pushes when he does make me trust the shit out of our good doctor. 10/10, would whiskey again.

KittyTacky - Stale read, but almost entirely based on the claim/circumstances around the claim.

---

Chell - I actively didn't like FL's reaction to me on rep in, and honestly his informed claim seems way more in line with scum shopping for information than Ele's did. The activity since replace in has all been solid content, though. The push on eir seems reasonable and not overstated in a way that would come from scum.

OutWorldER - Stale Read, but I remember there being town feels here.

Eiralox - The arrogance and aggression seem like a personality thing, not an alignment one, which is why I see them being pushed at the moment. I have feelings about their treatment of me being weirdly unconcerned with pocketing, but that's also not really how I expect scum Eiralox to treat me. Notably, I think:

idk i doubt we got masons maybe i think early i figured laga can be bussing bingle, nothing solid

Is the towniest thing Eiralox has posted. Scum Eiralox who is speculating on me/Key being secretly masons doesn't post "ERMAGERD THEY MIGHT BE MASONS" but Town Eiralox who is speculating that me/Key might be setting up for a fake mason gambit would absolutely do the thing.

---

Organized Khaos - I can remember nothing compelling from Khaos. He seems solidly like paralyzed scum, but wagoning him is going to accomplish approximately 0 of the things that are helpful longterm regardless of his alignment.



Gamma Emerald - None of my case has been invalidated, and honestly none of Gamma's stances have been impressive. I can't really point at any post and say "This right here. Gamma scum cause of this shit" but I really do expect more from town her than she's put on display here.

Naerys - It's not what she's saying so much as when and how. Naerys was accomplishing nothing, but we started wagon jumping and all of a sudden a scumcase on Eira who was unpopular at the time magically appeared.

Elements - Elements is giving me all the nasty feels this game. I feel very much like she's trying to pocket me and the whole "I want to L-1 Errybody" thing feels like a thing to be doing in lieu of content. Like, I don't think it existing is scummy, but I think that it being the only thing is scummy.

As far as the "joke" the biggest reason I asked KL to back off of Ele was that that particular reason to vote her seems like a really good way to create a shit wagon on a scummy player. The original posts 100% seem reasonable to me.

I don't really want to end the day until Nurse gets his ass back in the thread, but have the rest of the post.

[Bingle]

This game is officially a personal favorite

[Bingle]

Time until thread death
(expired on 2023-11-10 21:01:00)

Meh.

Methinks someone will intervene to extend the ban but maybe not; the townsfolk may revolt and demand your head?

I’m fine with the ban being over. Honestly though

Get Chell, Naerys and Laga talking to each other.
And ask them about each other.

I’d like y’all to respond to this. How do the three of you feel about each other? Also how does RN feel about anything?

[Bingle]

In due time.

Vote me now

You stay out of this, he doesn’t have to shoot you now.

[Bingle]

I will say this latest back and forth is making me doubt my key townread.

[Bingle]

In due time.

Vote me now

You stay out of this, he doesn’t have to shoot you now.

I’m sad that you missed the Looney Toons reference.

[Bingle]

I mean Eira, look at his ISO, its a confusing mishmash all sorts of things all at once. How is someone supposed to make sense out of all that? Now ISO Naer. Everything is thought out and clear, no confusion, right? Now, which kind of player would you like to have with you in this game? A clear & responsive player that is willing to take stances and explain their votes or someone that is like a shotgun scattering votes and theories everywhere like just trying to see what sticks? I don't have to go on and on about this right? I mean you see what I am saying don't you?

This is a trash argument. “Naer is more likable than Eiralox.” Is in no way alignment indicative.

[Bingle]

Where did AI come into this issue? I am talking about a TRACKABLE player. Someone whose reads are clear and understandable, so when things go south, its easier to see if they are scum. So read my post from that perspective because that IS what I am on about.

And... that's an ass argument. Like, on the same level of "We should eliminate Key because Key is making it hard to understand the thread." For the exact same reasons. You're supporting a policy elim on the player supporting a policy elim on you FOR THE SAME POLICY REASONS.

[Bingle]

Honestly, I'm kinda fine with any of the current wagons and just think we need a flip.

[Bingle]

Honestly, I'm kinda fine with any of the current wagons and just think we need a flip.

I have to ask. Does this mean you think my wagon and Elements' are 'fine'?
If you do can you please tell me why? That's the thing with spam games communication breaks down.

Yes, I think all three wagons are fine. Any of the three are high information lims and I think town will actually be in a pretty good place to solve regardless of which lim goes through.

I think Naerys has the best chance of flipping scum, but d1 isn’t really about finding scum so much as it is making it so scum can be found on later days.

[Bingle]

Only Sith deal in absolutes.

No, I’m pretty sure absolut is Russian, not sith. Also Drew is a whiskey man, I don’t think he’s especially prone to vodkas.

[Bingle]

Honestly, I'm kinda fine with any of the current wagons and just think we need a flip.

Calm down, we have over 5 days until deadline. Let me share the 25 year Glenlivet I had tonight with you so you can chill.

Also, I so strongly believe this is so obv town Ele, or the most blatant open wolfing I have ever seen.

Either way I am here for it and can't see myself voting for them today.

What do you want out of today that hasn’t been accomplished? The only thing I could see is shoring up khaos and rn reads, but I think we’re at that time when it’s just not going to do much talking in circles without a flip.

[Bingle]

Again. You forced me to claim. You ousted my soft.

The soft was obvious, the claim is null given inherent multitasking

[Bingle]

Well done! Glad to see your thoughts. Your effort is appreciated

This is likely a scum statement

I was trying to cheer up a newbie. Using this as AI is not ethical

Posts like these are not ethical. It’s a game of mafia. Deception and manipulation is literally the point, including emotional manipulation.

[Bingle]

No, I’m saying that being nice to a newbie is fair game for analysis because we simply don’t know if you have motivations other than being nice to the newbie.

I don’t think that post was scummy, and in fact think you were just trying to be friendly, but it is absolutely a thing that can and should be examined because it happened in the context of the game.

I just also think it’s very important site health wise that we dispel notions that something can be off limits for analysis if it’s in game or claims that a thing is ethical only as one alignment or another.

Of course, you’re welcome to try to read my mafia ethics rant as AI but that genuinely is my feeling on the matter and I’m happy to confirm that post game.

[Bingle]

Also, would town-Bingle ever attack an IC for helping a player?

[OK I think I got the terminology wrong here -- what did the coaches in the newbie games used to be called?]

But seriously, since that "newbie helping NAI role" has been abolished, how does it even make sense to attack a player who is acting in this capacity? Does town-Bingle EVER act like this?

This behavior from the desperate scum -- ooops sorry, I mean from Fungus & Bingle, this behavior should be discouraged by sitewide meta and I think it IS alignment indicative on Bingle's part at least.

Straight up? Yes.

Spoiler: My actual IC posts from old time newbies

Subject: Newbie 1542: Wikipedia Mafia II [GAME OVER]

OK. Here goes:

Spoiler: A Big Ol' IC Wall

There's a few things you should be aware of going into this game:

1st. Some of the players are what is known as a PR or Power Role. It is in town's best interest to keep the identities of these players hidden as long as possible. To that end, keep all speculation about what other's roles may be to yourself. It is bad for town to discuss this. As a PR, play as you normally would. An investigative (cop/JK) should claim if they have 1-2 guilties or 2-3 innocents. No other PR's should claim unless they are being run up, and then only at L-1. *This is not a hard and fast rule, but for the purposes of this game pretend it is.

2nd. Wagons and L-1. L-1 is shorthand that means 1 vote until l****. If you cast a vote that is the last one before a l****, announce that you are putting that person at L-1. If at any point, you find yourself wanting to vote for someone who is at L-1, instead state the intent to hammer. This means that you intend to l****the person in question. At this point, and at no point prior to this, should the person who is being voted claim their role. This is to prevent us from l****ing possibly powerful PRs. After a claim is recieved (or if the player refuses to claim) and after discussion, then the hammer might get cast.

3rd. Activity. It is incredibly important to town's chances of winning that we maintain a presence in the thread and continue trying to solve the game. To that end, everyone should attempt to post at least once a day if at all possible. Yes I realize that we all have lives, but the chance of a town win dramatically increase along with activity.

4th. The beginning. Here on mafiascum there are two major ways to start a game. RVS and RQS. Personally I believe RVS is superior, but I will demonstrate both in the interest of showing them to you.

RVS- Slightly poorly named, the goal is not to actually vote at random but to vote for arbitrary reasons. This allows people to fish for reactions, build associations and interact while we have little or no information.

RQS- Also poorly named, the goal is to ask questions that will help you determine the style of play of people while the game starts, possibly also bringing up some form of controversy so that people can begin arguing.

5th. The SE's and myself are here to help you learn how to play mafia. Ask us questions. Do not think, however, that any of us are not also playing the game. Each of your SE's and myself had exactly the same chance of drawing scum as you did. Keep that in mind. If you ever need to address something to the mod, use the bold tags: [ b][ /b]. If you would like to vote, either bold your vote or use the vote tags [ v][ /v] and put it on a separate line for Maestro's convenience.

6th. The main differences between town and scum are twofold: 1. Scum has more information than town does. 2. Scum is trying not to get l****ed, town is looking for scum. For this reason, the motivations behind a post are often more important than the content. You should look at each post individually and ask yourself:

1. Assuming the poster is town, why would he post this?
2. Assuming the poster is scum, why would he post this?
3. Do I agree with what is being said here?

TL;DR: I'm an IC. Ask me theory questions and I won't lie.

RVS:

VOTE: NotScience

C'mon, Notty. Show me some love.

RQS:

1. What is your alignment?
2. Have you played mafia before? If so, how often and in what format (RL, Forum, Skype, Using morse code on nuclear submarines in the Pacific Ocean.)
3. What alignment were you hoping to get?
4. Who among the player list do you recognize?
17. What is your opinion on l**** all Liars and l**** all Lurkers as policies?

Now I'm gonna read the two pages you guys posted while I was busy.

Subject: Newbie 1542: Wikipedia Mafia II [GAME OVER]

First off- I refuse to post random articles, and instead will be posting ones that totally have a purpose behind them.

To that end, fresh of the mafiascum wiki: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit Enjoy!

I've been going through different games, and I agree in part with some player's inclination to start a game based on questions on gameplay/experience, rather than solely rely on RVS (random voting stage). Perhaps a combination of the two is ideal. So if everyone wouldn't mind answering these:

1) What do you think are the most efficient ways to play as Town?
2)How active are you/do you intend to be?

I think town should avoid tunnel vision, and get around to putting pressure on as many players as possible.
I'll be quite active - until exam period sets in.

1) Everyone has a different playstyle, and we're a bit premature to out scumtells and towntells. I will say this though, activity is key as town.
2) I intend to be active to the point where I have at least one decently sized post each day. This Sunday may be an exception due to real life, but that is a minimum. If I fail to meet that minimum, feel free to yell at me because it's probably because I'm being lazy.

Why specifically do you think tunnelling is bad? Do you think it is more likely to come from scum or town?

I was going to answer the question but wouldn't the scum gain a lot by knowing what we think is good town play as they could adjust there play accordingly to avoid suspicion. I feel like the cons of answering this out way the pros. What do you think town gains with this knowledge that could make me consider?

@everyone how much experience do you have playing mafia? (SE and IC's could answer if they want
@everyone does anyone have experience with other people in this game, if so who?

I am a somewhat experienced player but the games I have played in haven't been incredibly serious.

I play at least once a week in RL, and have been playing on site for quite some time now. I'm also in three hydras (two people playing together as a single player) and I have read or helped with the setup/design on many more games. If you want some of my meta, feel free to ask, or you can use the handy "view topics" button after clicking my username.

Notty (NotScience) was in my very first game on site and we talk every once in a while on sitechat.
Bins and Wolfy are both players I've seen before around the site, but I can't think of any completed games with either of them. I've also seen davesaz, although he appears to have flaked. I recognize none of you newbies. I'm sorry if I've seen you before and don't remember.

@Mdevil, why you no answer me about your scum buddy?

I didn't really think I needed to reply to a baseless accusation.

Also, you already show an inconsistency. You elect not to participate in RVS because you don't see a point, then begin to attempt to pressure me in the exact same manner, if not more so as you sought to follow up directly, while not voting. It seems kind of arbitrary.

And what does that mean to you? Is he likely scum or likely town? Why?


Hey, so Roshar is null-scum and bee is prob-town.

Speaking from experience, even in the system where there was a person whose job it was to teach, you could absolutely read into how people taught and the circumstances around it.

Also, to say I was yelling at Naerys for being helpful is a massive misrepresentation. I was pointing out that it's skeevy at best to say certain types of posts are off limits for analysis and outright damaging to the game at worst, and trying to bring morality in to enforce that makes that incredibly damaging.

[Bingle]

Okay there is no way hiding this anymore. I am

mailman

Eira-Bingle- elements likely contains scum
I thank you you dimwitts for forcing me to claim, honestly

Don't be salty, mailman without restriction modifiers like loyal is a glorified named townie.

I am complex.

Hm. Vanilla cop. That's an interesting add to a game with an IC and an informed.

I'd like you to target the IC for role confirmation purposes.

[Bingle]

Eira you should claim. I'm not gonna vote atm, but will be doing so when I get back from some errands.

[Bingle]

Key, if you don't stop spamming the thread I will leverage the shit out of every shred of towncred I have to policy lim you. You're being intolerable and making the game unplayable and Eiralox is objectively correct when he says your lim is protown even if you are town here.

[Bingle]

I also don't know what makes you so interested in my claim, too. If you're town you probably already caught Naerys scum so wanting to pivot onto hammering me just doesn't compute for me here.

This game day has already become bloated. More conversation makes it harder to parse the actual content, not easier, and you ARE FULLY COMPLICIT in that.

I'm absolutely fine with ending the day with your hammer here, and will be doing so as soon as the replacements are sorted.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Keylaga

Legitimately, regardless of alignment, don't sign up for games I'm in.

[Bingle]

Why are people voting for Key? I don't see Key being scum here.

100% policy.

[Bingle]

bcz they hate the number of posts he has been posting

Reductionist, but not inaccurate.

Key is fostering a thread state that makes it impossible to actually find mafia in by spamposting aggressive bullshit.

[Bingle]

No matter what happens, DO NOT claim whether or not you get mail from Naerys.

Naerys 100% should be leashed to the IC, as I said earlier.

[Bingle]

Actually... Naerys should send the IC a list of messages she will send on future nights, to be able to prove that people received those messages. That is the protown potential of that role, assuming it isn't functionally a scum vanilla cop.

[Bingle]

IC message

These words will appear in my messages

N2
N3
N4
N5
N6

These words will appear in my messages
N3
N4
N5
N6

These words will confirm you received this message

IC
N3
N4
N5
N6

Message formatting. Don't claim or mention the words in thread until massclaim. Naerys claims who she sent the messages to after massclaim is fully done if she's still alive then.

[Bingle]

try and make the words hard to mutually guess. I suggest random words from dictionary.com, it's how I do passwords for secret alt games.

[Bingle]

Ftr I don’t try to make certain posts off limits to analyze but there are circumstances where if you try to extract an alignment read from a certain situation I will hate you for it.

I'm assuming you're talking about V/LA and RL shit posts, but no, those are explicitly game relevant. If someone isn't here because their house burned down then that's 100% something I'm going to take into consideration regarding my read of them. I'm going to take it into concern in the context of "Huh, maybe the lurking isn't intentional." but it is 100% a thing that I consider. If someone comes in and says that they had a shitty day and they're not able to play, I will look at that as well. "Does Gamma Emerald tend to have more difficulty contributing as scum or town while frustrated?" is a 100% kosher question in my books. You don't, as far as I know, have a meaningful difference in your emotional impact on games as certain alignments, but there have been players that have. LLD, for example, is more likely to shut down as town than as scum because she feels much more personally responsible for the win as scum ime.

[Bingle]

I'm tr-ing gamma's last couple of pages, btw.

[Bingle]

Not those. It’s more to do with if I am feeling a certain way and people try to read into it.

Can't really say without a specific example, but I will say that there is nothing I can think of that I wouldn't at least consider before dismissing it as NAI. Anyway, this is not really helping thread health, which is probably a bad idea given pending replacements.

[Bingle]

The player was rude and kind of a dick but the slot is hard town.

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

Honestly, I'm kinda fine with any of the current wagons and just think we need a flip.

I have to ask. Does this mean you think my wagon and Elements' are 'fine'?
If you do can you please tell me why? That's the thing with spam games communication breaks down.

Yes, I think all three wagons are fine. Any of the three are high information lims and I think town will actually be in a pretty good place to solve regardless of which lim goes through.

I think Naerys has the best chance of flipping scum, but d1 isn’t really about finding scum so much as it is making it so scum can be found on later days.

I’m pretty much back at this point. I’m not particularly interested in flipping nurse because I don’t think we really learn much of anything regardless of how that goes. I guess I can wait for Nurse to arrive and see if there is an uptick in activity, but I’m low key expecting that slot to be replaced as well.

[Bingle]

Hi I'm the new Outworlder

I fully expected to rep into a scum slot but instead I rolled town, so huh, a pleasant surprise.

Can someone TLDR me on the case against Eiralox and/or link it if there's already a post summarizing it?

Also, please don't expect me to play with the same level of tryharding as my main account k thanks.

Oh one final thing:

VOTE: Nurse

Serious vote.

Given that you expected ower scum what do you feel about the ower townreads?

[Bingle]

Hi I'm the new Outworlder

I fully expected to rep into a scum slot but instead I rolled town, so huh, a pleasant surprise.

Can someone TLDR me on the case against Eiralox and/or link it if there's already a post summarizing it?

Also, please don't expect me to play with the same level of tryharding as my main account k thanks.

Oh one final thing:

VOTE: Nurse

Serious vote.

Given that you expected ower scum what do you feel about the ower townreads?

Well given that I now know he was town, I don't think there's anything to be divulged about alignments by looking at his townreads.

I only scumread him because I didn't like his voting pattern tbh.

Still, I'll humor you:

- I do agree independently that you and Kitty are never D1 votes here.
- I dunno about Key. His cases were so far fetched it's hard to believe it's scum, but it might be sort of newbscum approach that's very different to how most newbscum play here. The thing about newbies is that their play can be very unexpected.
- I townlean gamma but I'm not really sure why.
- Don't have a read on Khaos
- I townlean Elements.

Opposite. What do you think about the townreads expressed on OWER

[Bingle]

Bingle, what's your read on khaos?

Scummy but low info.

[Bingle]

Eira wagon reasoning tl;dr

Eira is about as huggable as a porcupine.
Eira legitimately thinks D1 no lim is a good townstrat, but was not actually advocating it because he didn't think it was viable.
Eira was hard pushing Key as a policy lim despite the above and multiple hard townreads on Key because Key was choking the thread.
Eira has independently suspected basically every member of the town, with the notable exception of me.
Eira was leveraging OMGUS to avoid getting voted.

All of these are not good reasons to sus Eira specifically ime, but it remains true that Eira hasn't done much in the way of 'being towny'. It's also worth acknowledging that Key making the thread unreadable was not a solo act.

[Bingle]

I dont have buddies, i have a bag full of envelopes though.

This was the soft

Again, anyone who didn't catch this doesn't have eyes, and I'm not even considering it scummy. Also worth noting, Eira had this point where they were publicly speccing whether Key and I were a mason pair and dismissed it on the back of there already being an IC, and I actually think that specific type of useless spec is +town. Granted, it's the only +town thing I've seen from eira.

[Bingle]

I'm here, I promise! Currently working a stretch of 5 shifts and 11/9's the last one!

RN-

RN's first like 7 posts were actually pretty decent imo. This is his second to last one, explaining that he had a work schedule from hell last week and hasn't been able to devote time. He has exceeded his self imposed timeframe, but said absence seems to be site wide and he's at/nearing replacement timewise so I'm not really interested in wagoning a player who has 7 posts with literally no interaction on the back of "he doesn't effort as scum" when he's literally siteflaked at the moment. If he comes back and doesn't effort, we'll talk, but this wagon is very unappealing to me.

[Bingle]

Elements-

The CC bidness:

RN specced that IC would necessarily mean a stacked scumteam on entry, to which I replied that IC is actually fairly weak in the realm of investigatives due to the likelihood of it disappearing early and thus being largely useless late game. I said I expect that there is a protective of some sort, but not a hard protective. Something that can only protect sometimes or has a severe drawback if found while protecting (babysitter) was more likely than any other options. Elements responded that she was informed there was no protection (which I took to be an obvious joke, but apparently some people thought was real). KT thought this was sus. About a page later, FL claimed informed of something that would make early massclaim desirable. KT outright cc'd element's joke, claiming informed that scum were informed that there was a gated protective role. Thread consensus at the time was that KT's cc was ++town, although rereading it now I'm not sure I still think that. Will ruminate more. Basically, the cc seemed risky if KT wasn't actually informed of a town protective, and backing off of elements instead of trying to shove through a lim seemed +town, but if KT was scum informed of a town protective that first bit isn't all that risky.

In addition, Ele has been very wagon happy with the exception of Eiralox, with a stated goal of getting every player to L-1 on Day 1. There's been a decent amount of cozying up to me, who at least some of the day enjoyed a position of being nearly as townread as the IC. I don't particularly think Ele is hard scum, but she's definitely a high value flip and I could easily be persuaded there.

[Bingle]

Naerys was the other main wagon when we had dueling wagons. Basically, Chell posted a case on Eira that was roughly Eira is playing to an audience of the IC (which I thought was a pretty reasonable case, actually) when I made a comment about the number of people who were not active in thread after naked voting Eira and Naerys took that and ran. I didn't like the case she came up with as it mostly relied on things like 'Eira is aggressive as fak" and "No way would a town player actually like no lim" without actually examining why scum would try to fake that. She also had a level of confidence that was unreasonably high for the case being as bleh as it was. I stayed on that wagon after because A three dueling wagons was promising info wise and B there seemed to be a weird amount of resistance to Naerys getting limmed that didn't seem reasonable to me.

[Bingle]

Celebloki
Sleepy Dragon
Doctor Drew
Titus
Gamma Emerald

KittyTacky
Chell

Organized Khaos
Random Nurse*
Eiralox

Naerys
Elements

This is roughly where I'm at at the moment. I'd consider limming any of the bottom 5 to be desirable, but would want more engagement before settling on RN or Khaos.

[Bingle]

Dargon when you say I’m scumreading Naerys for naerysing do you mean she is prone to thinking people are scum for entirely irrelevant reasons, she is prone to strong reads that have no real justification, or both?

[Bingle]

Doctor Drew - Drew is almost certainly town here. The reach outs to me seem natural, the desire to engage with me lines up entirely with the townread, and the complete willingness to disagree and make his own pushes when he does make me trust the shit out of our good doctor. 10/10, would whiskey again.

Old town reasoning on Drew. Still relevant.

[Bingle]

Oh, and also:

VOTE: eiralox

E-1.

[Bingle]

We have an ic, ic gets hammer.

Also worth noting that eir has softer pr strongly and yet refused to claim since he wasn’t “at threat of being limmed.”

[Bingle]

I think specifically eiralox who has refused to claim at e-1 already this game and hasn’t posted in 36 hours being at e-1 is completely acceptable.

Who exactly are you worried about lolhammering atp?

[Bingle]

Dragon, your takes come across as extremely bad faith and I’m having a hard time reconciling that with my read of your slot.

You think I’m scum for thinking Naerys is scum for objectively scummy things because you have meta. This is my first game with Naerys.

You think I’m scum for putting someone at e-1 with clear notification despite the fact that I’ve been openly accepting of the lim for at least 20 pages now.

You think I’m scum for being willing to lim a null read in my PoE despite also being the only person who has shown clear reasoning on the majority of the players since you’ve repped in.

And you’ve got a strong fixation with E-1 being a quick hammer despite there being very little threat of that happening fmpov.

The question here is: Why?

[Bingle]

can someone give me a list of claims if any?

IC
Informed town, no protective- retracted Ele
Informed town, scum is informed of a protective with gating KT
Complex mailman (functionally a vanilla cop) Naerys
VT Elements
Pr soft, eiralox

None of the pr claims have been made under significant pressure except eira

[Bingle]

If you can tell me please who Eira's partners are voting (not who they are), I might believe Eira has partners.

1.25 (UNCHANGED)

Votecount 1.25

Eiralox (4): Naerys, KeyLaga, Doctor Drew, Chell
Naerys (3): Bingle, OutWorldER, Eiralox
Elements (3): KittyTacky, Gamma Emerald, Elements
Chell (1): Organized Khaos

Not Voting (2):

Celebloki

, Random Nurse

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

I expect if Eir is scum one partner is bussing and one partner is not here. I'm not sure if the non bussing partner is voting elements or not, but I'm pretty sure they're not voting Naerys.

1.36

Votecount 1.36

Eiralox (E-1): Doctor Drew, Chell, KittyTacky, Organized Khaos, Gamma Emerald, Bingle
Titus (1): Eiralox
Naerys (1): Elements
Organized Khaos (1): Titus
Bingle (1): Sleepy Dragon

Not Voting (3):

Celebloki

, camelCasedSnivy, Naerys

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

I'm fairly confused as to who you think COULDN'T be a partner

here

, tbh.

[Bingle]

Organized Khaos

What?

Are you okay?

Yeah, I'm just very busy in real life and haven't been able to keep up with the thread. It would be nice to know what's been going on.

No, I meant, are you OK?

Oh yeah, I am OK.

But have you been hit by, struck by, a Radiant Cowbells?

[Bingle]

@bingle

The people who could be Eira partners are something like OK, you, CCS. Oh, maybe Titus.

Why are discounting GE, ele, chell and kt?

And what specifically makes Titus antipartnery?

[Bingle]

hes trying to control the day

So? What have I been using my attempts to control the day to do, and why is it scummy?

[Bingle]

Celebloki - I have a secret tinfoil theory that Celebloki is Informed Town, but I'm not pushing it so that scum doesn't try to kill him to stifle the information.

When it comes to bingle, i dislike this. " I am not pushing it" yeah but writing it instead into RL to which everyone will pay attention to.

Show of hands:

Who all thinks that me saying the IC is fakeclaiming IC as an informed townie is something I would do as anything other than a joke. Cause...

[Bingle]

Wasn't Titus KeyLaga? The person who spent pages upon pages obnoxiously taunting EIralox and telling them to surrender while voting them?

I uhhh. I thought you were KL and Titus was OWer for some reason. I'll grant you that Titus and Eira make for odd bedfellows. I don't particularly agree that your list of names is so uber town that they can all be used to clear Eir preflip, but I guess I can grok "I have a large number of townreads so I'm voting outside of them" as a reason to be suspicious of me, given "I have a large number of townreads and I think flipping eir will tell me if I'm sniffing glue" is kind of the whole point of voting a nullish read.

[Bingle]

Gamma has been very town recently, wagon is kinda garbo.

[Bingle]

Bloop

Spicy. Tell me why and I might join you.

[Bingle]

Jokes don't exist on Mafiascum.net

TIL I've been hallucinating this player named Doctor Drew for years.

[Bingle]

So legitimately I thought someone responded to my question about what I've been using my "thread leadering" to do except now I can't find it and I've read all the intervening pages several times. Halp.

[Bingle]

Real talk, eira, why have you been townreading me so consistently?

[Bingle]

Didn’t realize deadline was pending.

VOTE: elements

Will be around tonight

[Bingle]

the real tragedy is that this feels like we've just hit page 40, content wise.

Maybe the real tragedy is the friends we made along the way.

[Bingle]

Bingle (E-2): Sleepy Dragon, Chell, Naerys, Elements, camelCasedSnivy

This is legitimately one of the worst wagons I've ever seen.

[Bingle]

the lack of bad vibes is why they are scum

more seriously, don't feel like Bingle's been committing to any reads or initiating any plays, they're mostly coasting through the game.

But seriously, though, the fuck are you smoking?

I was the start of the Eiralox wagon. I prevented KL from making the thread shit even earlier by interceding between him and elements. I have had major pushes on Naerys and GE. I was the source of the hard townreads for KL and OWer. I, without a doubt, have done the most of anyone with regards to initiating plays, and your push is the exact opposite of the stated reason of other people voting me: That I'm controlling the thread too much.

I'm probably down to lim SD D2, atp.

[Bingle]

let them cook and sort after a night phase

I don't think this ever applies to Naerys? At best she's an outed vanilla cop, which has barely any town utility.

[Bingle]

Vla till tomorrow night.

Noted.

- Alianna

[Bingle]

Am I the only one thinking that slot is obvscum right now?

can you walk me through why?

Sure, I'll try to break it down:

Vote on Eira:

There's two things here that bother me. First, Bingle has recently completed a game where Eiralox was town and was behaving in a very against-the-grain way and obstinate, and scum!Bingle pressured them for their against the grain play. I feel like town!Bingle would hesitate about SRing Eiralox and would realize that Eira being against the grain and obstinate is NAI at worst (and town indicative at best). Pressuring it feels like it's done in bad faith.

Are you towncasing me? Because I never scumread Eira. I thought Eira was null, and repeatedly said so. I repeatedly said that Eira being against the grain and obstinate was not scum indicative. I repeatedly said that Naerys' push on Eira for precisely those reasons was sus. I in fact pushed Naerys over that for a lot of D1. And... You think Naerys is town, for specifically this behavior that you think is scummy from me despite me not actually being the one to do it.

You're making shit up here.

Second, the vote looked very scum motivated / opportunistic to me, in that Bingle first of all wrote a post where they explicitly said that most of what Eiralox had done this game so far was NAI and that Eira was lower null, and then only a few posts later in their ISO they CASUALLY put Eiralox at E-1, in a way that to me says "well I'm ready to end the day on Eira" (mind you, this was when Eira wasn't even here to defend themselves). To me this looks like scum who sees a mislim opportunity and tried to lock it in.

Yes, the vote was on a high info wagon that was a null read. It's like I repeatedly said the Eira wagon was a high info wagon on a null read. Maybe me doing the thing I explicitly said I was doing was me doing the thing I explicitly said I was doing, as opposed to me doing a thing I explicitly said I wasn't doing.

Tone:

Bingle has a towny tone, actually, but they always have a towny tone as scum in my experience so this is NAI. However there's something off about their tone in this post:

Spoiler: quote

Dragon, your takes come across as extremely

bad faith

and I’m

having a hard time reconciling that with my read of your slot

.

You think I’m scum for thinking Naerys is scum for objectively scummy things because you have meta. This is my first game with Naerys.

You think I’m scum for putting someone at e-1 with clear notification despite the fact that I’ve been openly accepting of the lim for at least 20 pages now.

You think I’m scum for being willing to lim a null read in my PoE despite also being the only person who has shown clear reasoning on the majority of the players since you’ve repped in.

And you’ve got a strong fixation with E-1 being a quick hammer despite there being very little threat of that happening fmpov.

The question here is: Why?

It feels like an attempt to discredit me without scumreading a widely townread slot (remember, Bingle was sure that I replaced KeyLaga). Like if I'm bad faith why you townreading me bro? If you think I'm tunneled town, say I'm tunneled town, not that I'm in bad faith. Though actually while writing this I'm starting to think I might be tunneled town. The thing is, I don't have any amazing scumreads elsewhere so for now I'm sticking with this unless someone drops an amazing scum case.

Oh, I responded to a slot I was fairly certain was town pushing me disingenuously with confusion? It's like I don't expect town players to push shit wagons for garbage reasons in bad faith, and I was trying to reconcile a townread on your predecessor with you openwolfing. How the fuck is that scummy?

EOD pop-in (posts 2457 and 2464):

It just feels really off to me that after the Eira shenanigans, they see deadline is encroaching, and make an almost naked vote on Elements (who flipped town) with a promise to be around. And then instead of engaging with all the stuff that's been happening (such as the Snivy wagon and the mutual townreading that started to occur between everyone who was online), or giving reasoning for Elements, they just throw a general shade on everyone on their wagon and decide that somehow I have become a fine Day 2 lim (which is a hilariously bad idea), as well as really, really incorrect defense of themself.

Fuck right the fuck off. I got busy at work, and RL trumps game. I literally could not be in the thread. And as far as not being available to lim Snivy over Ele... As scum do you think I prefer the elim on the claimed VT who is hard townreading me or the unclaimed slot who has been shitpushing me since they replaced in? Regardless of my alignment, if I'd been able to do so I absolutely would have jumped to a preferred wagon there.

Coasting:

I feel like Bingle has made zero effort to solve the game since my rep-in. They had made SOME solving before I repped in, but not afterwards. They were in a pretty strong position and townread, so it makes sense that scum!them would just decide to coast. I accused them of coasting and they made a response "refuting" it, which I'll dissect below.

Yes, my decision to coast came exactly as I started getting pushed instead of actually being busy IRL. Seriously, you're making shit up and I 100% would suicide bomb your slot right now if I could.

did you respond to 2464 dragon?

I responded "that's a really bad reason to want to lim me day 2"

However, let me fully address it:

But seriously, though, the fuck are you smoking?

shade/discredit.

I was the start of the Eiralox wagon.

Misrep. Bingle voted Eiralox early on with zero reasoning and no case, and then unvoted Eiralox and called them town. This is not "starting the Eiralox wagon".

I prevented KL from making the thread shit even earlier by interceding between him and elements.

That's something you'd do as scum.

I have had major pushes on Naerys and GE. I was the source of the hard townreads for KL and OWer. I, without a doubt, have done the most of anyone with regards to initiating plays...

Having done things EARLIER doesn't mean you aren't coasting RIGHT NOW, which Bingle IS. Read the game from page 70 and tell me they weren't coasting for 40 pages.

...and your push is the exact opposite of the stated reason of other people voting me: That I'm controlling the thread too much.

I'm probably down to lim SD D2, atp.

LOL

Scumreading someone for daring to think differently from the rest of the town is HILARIOUS. And by hilarious, I mean fucking bad play if town but probably coming from scum. Not once did I say that I am voting Bingle because of other people. Why does my push on Bingle have to conform with other people's perceptions of Bingle?

Hey, it's like you just removed a bunch of context to justify a scumread!

the lack of bad vibes is why they are scum

more seriously, don't feel like Bingle's been committing to any reads or initiating any plays, they're mostly coasting through the game.

My eira vote was 100% initiating plays. My Naerys push was 100% initiating plays. My Gamma push was 100% initiating plays. My hard townread on KT was 100% committing to reads. My hard KL townread was 100% committing to reads. My townread on OWer, was 100% committing to reads. My 'coasting' all came after your scumread/push on me and was RL based, and this push has been 50 shades of slimy since it started.

VOTE: SleepyDragon

[Bingle]

Elements-

The CC bidness:

RN specced that IC would necessarily mean a stacked scumteam on entry, to which I replied that IC is actually fairly weak in the realm of investigatives due to the likelihood of it disappearing early and thus being largely useless late game. I said I expect that there is a protective of some sort, but not a hard protective. Something that can only protect sometimes or has a severe drawback if found while protecting (babysitter) was more likely than any other options. Elements responded that she was informed there was no protection (which I took to be an obvious joke, but apparently some people thought was real). KT thought this was sus. About a page later, FL claimed informed of something that would make early massclaim desirable. KT outright cc'd element's joke, claiming informed that scum were informed that there was a gated protective role. Thread consensus at the time was that KT's cc was ++town, although rereading it now I'm not sure I still think that. Will ruminate more. Basically, the cc seemed risky if KT wasn't actually informed of a town protective, and backing off of elements instead of trying to shove through a lim seemed +town, but if KT was scum informed of a town protective that first bit isn't all that risky.

In addition, Ele has been very wagon happy with the exception of Eiralox, with a stated goal of getting every player to L-1 on Day 1. There's been a decent amount of cozying up to me, who at least some of the day enjoyed a position of being nearly as townread as the IC. I don't particularly think Ele is hard scum, but she's definitely a high value flip and I could easily be persuaded there.

This is me, acknowledging that I'm a tainted slot that probably needs to die at some point.

[Bingle]

K I'm 90% on the way to solve this game, I just need one of gob/Chell/Drew to townspew right about now.

I only town spew in end game, or as scum lol.

I actually am waiting for Bingle to show up, need to dance a little with him.

why dont you vote him?

Scum post. Not only is Drew already voting me, but Snivy is pushing him to eliminate me in absentia while I'm literally V/LA.

[Bingle]

My gut says do Khaos.

Don't be lazy, there's obvscum to string up.

[Bingle]

How was I trying to pocket you? With banter? That's NAI as fuck and you know it.

[Bingle]

All three of you are on the wagon on me. Did you ever justify being okay with SD thinking I'm scum for a contradictory reason to your own?

[Bingle]

See? I told you Bingle is the glue that keeps this game together.

Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality.

[Bingle]

It was these two posts, like maybe you suddenly became a great reader of Drew, but it seemed very excessive.

Eh. I'm townreading you, sure. I'm not really leveraging that into anything though, so I'm not sure why it would trigger pocketing alarms.

[Bingle]

I am town this game so who is scum Bingle? Besides the one you just mentioned

I'd actually come around on Gamma town yesterday (You're gamma, right?) based on EoD contributions.

ATM I'm thinking 2 scum in SD/Naerys/cCS although probably not all three. I have strong townreads on you and titus and weak townreads on Drew and Chell. I think OK flips scum more often than not, but that's more a function of PoE and lack of contribution than any specific scum motivation on his part.

[Bingle]

Dargon when you say I’m scumreading Naerys for naerysing do you mean she is prone to thinking people are scum for entirely irrelevant reasons, she is prone to strong reads that have no real justification, or both?

Also, the claim was shit.

Dragon said these things are town indicative for her, but I doubt, especially given that the above is literally all of her play this game. Why are you townreading her?

[Bingle]

hi khaos who is scum

But where do the commas go?

[Bingle]

Okay there is no way hiding this anymore. I am

mailman

Eira-Bingle- elements likely contains scum
I thank you you dimwitts for forcing me to claim, honestly

Don't be salty, mailman without restriction modifiers like loyal is a glorified named townie.

I am complex.

Hm. Vanilla cop. That's an interesting add to a game with an IC and an informed.

I'd like you to target the IC for role confirmation purposes.

I don’t really believe the “I didn’t understand that IC was Innocent Child” card, btw.

[Bingle]

sorry, bingle. who is scum.

hi! khaos, who is scum.

Who isn't even in this game.

[Bingle]

Anyway I need people to fill me in.

1. Has anyone claimed?
2. Any night time stuff happen
3. Why oh why did it tie yesterday?

There were a bunch of claim/retraction shenanigans, naerys softclaimed mailman with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the knee then got mad when eira pointed it out. Celebloki is an IC. KT claimed imformed who knew that scum knew that there was a protective. FL and Ele both fake claimed informed jokingly and there was a bunch of dumb surrounding that. I correctly guessed the setup would have a babysitter on like page three, which is honestly nagl for me but somehow hasn’t factored into any push on me, and we likely don’t have relevant night action results.

[Bingle]

I explained my thoughts process. I am not native speaker so its easy for me to misunderstand stuff.

You sure did. I continue to not believe it, mostly because of the whole IC and informed were referenced as two explicitly different things in the plan post problem with the explanation.

As far as potential gains, naerys can’t be guiltied by tracker if she has a reason to have targeted the kill and can’t be guiltied by not sending a message to the IC if she straight up lied about her role.

[Bingle]

As far as defending eira/ele, that deserves a longer response than I have the ability to give at the moment. Maybe at lunch.

[Bingle]

I don't think it is Chell.

I think @camelSnivy is mafia here btw. Titus and Bingle seem TvT.

This post has been eating at me. Titus v Bingle? We haven't really been at odds. Feels out of left field.

Kinda the opposite, actually. I’ve been hard townreading your slot and only briefly pushed a policy lim on it prior to your rep in.

[Bingle]

Sup?

Keep your pants on. My lunch break ended up being stuffing a loaf of bread in my mouth while running test cycles because I have an incompetent coworker who couldn't figure out that Aisle 3 is the third aisle in the system and "The robot's motor burned out" is a "Hardware Issue". (I shit you not, he spent 25 minutes in Aisle 2 looking for a broken robot.) Anyway, I'm here now, and I feel a lot better having just typed that gross exaggeration of someone I don't like being bad at their job.

[Bingle]

Four: ugh, has no one here played with eiralox before? they (or he? not sure) is known for having a disagreeable / unpalatable playstyle. Why is that scummy? Like Gamma, you've played with Eira in TL's Grandest Idea, they were town despite the annoying, against the grain attitude.

So... This is where the 'townread' on Eiralox actually starts. The townread, of course, is: Eiralox is abrasive as town. Not Eiralox can't be scum, but rather there's no reason to scumread Eira.

Okay actually IDK maybe

Eiralox is justified as null read, I mean I have them as null leaning town, where the townlean is mainly for being hated by everyone rather than because they have done something towny.

I've snipped this for readability, but basically, Sleepy is agreeing with me that Eira is a nullread at best, but that he has a gamestate read of weak town on Eira because everyone was willing to lim there. But that's not really defending eira. It's mostly angling to push me. It's an optics driven post, not a defense of a townread.

You said Gamma is good at appearing affronted town while not giving out much info, given she hadn't rolled scum this year why do you not think it is just affronted town?

I can try and write pages and quote Gamma posts to explain my process and give a rough qualifications of my instincts

But for now I have relegated this more to the realm of intellectual curiosity

If Gamma flips, when Gamma flips, I just know you know, it's scum.

VOTE: gamma

I hate Eira's response to Element's question and I hate Elements just sheeping it

VOTE: Eira

Oh also I hate the post where Eira talks about how Gamma was genuinely wholesome and isn't pocketing them but should be voted anyway. I don't really care about the conclusion but moreso that it feels it doesn't align with what Eira is saying.

And Sleepy was also willing to vote Eira briefly under the flimsiest of reasons. Like... the eira townread was incredibly weaksauce, and yet SD hasn't shut up about how he was the only one who knew Eira was town since D2 started as if that gives him any credibility. And even if SD HAD been shouting from the rooftops that Eira was town, that's not an especially town thing to have under his belt. Scum love to WK town who are going down.

OTOH, looking at SD's iso to find this, I think it is incredibly unlikely that cCS and SD are paired, which is interesting.

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

gob can you give me a solve that has me/you/bingle as town? Because if you are both town I'm really struggling to see who the maf can be.

You opened the box here, and I'm intrigued.

I'm flipped town, what's your solve?

[Bingle]

read the first sentence of that post

"gob's not in my PoE here"

[Bingle]

I would also like, for the record, to affirm that I am in fact cCS's poem, and I can be your poem too if you just believe in a thing called love by the darkness.

[Bingle]

I'm confused about the Naerys narrative, actually.

SD says Naerys has never had a scumgame and is known for objectively scummy behavior as town. Naerys kind of tacitly supported this worldview by expressing that she's LHF.

cCS says Naerys is an experienced player who is worth keeping an eye on because she hasn't done anything worth townreading.

What do each of you make of the other's assertions? Naerys, how do you feel about cCS here?

[Bingle]

Especially you vigilante, if you exist and its not a NK (I could see mafia killing Eira to snuff out info btw. I may be missing something that happened, but Kitty being shot seems weird from Vigi, since Kitty didn't have any votes at EoD. So unless it was a hard read by someone, it's more likely that Vigi shot the non-voter wildcard Eira).

You, uh... You read what KT flipped right?

[Bingle]

babysitter is doc, but if they die their target dies. KT killed eira, 99% of the time here.

[Bingle]

theoretically there could be a doc who saved KT's target and a vig that killed eira, but... No.

[Bingle]

Someone who is less in a bathtub than me should check to see if gob has played with a babysitter before, but yeah, I feel significantly worse about gob now.

[Bingle]

After massclaim if no lim shortening mechanic manifests and the ic is ded.

[Bingle]

kinda think khaos would have just hammered in a gob!town, khaos!scum world

Is the possibility of them both being scum too farfetched?

This is a solid argument to lim gob first tbh.

Like, it says gob has to be scum if khaos is scum, so gob should always die first. Not sure I concur, but it gives me the wiggens that it’s kinda of being used to enforce the opposite behavior here.

[Bingle]

I’m not sheeping bingle lol

I’m not sure whether bingle even outright scum reads gob

I don’t. I have a map of vague associations in my head and need a ball of yarn to decide where I want to vote. Luckily, I should have plenty of time this week/end due to the holiday.

[Bingle]

I am not following why that makes snivy the most likely to be scum out of the three of us

Potentially? Yarn.

[Bingle]

celebloki you are probably alive because scum thought you would be protected

Alternatively, scum was informed that the protective was informed and KT was dead as soon as he claimed. It’s the tinfoil that’s been eating me about chell, because FL’s informed post did actually look like it had motivation and I can’t think of another one.

[Bingle]

Also, KT dying over me or eiralox is just kinda weird otherwise.

[Bingle]

Also, KT dying over me or eiralox is just kinda weird otherwise.

Why would Eiralox be night killed? I thought Eiralox was probably going to be a viable mislim option for scum today if they didn't die.

Eiralox was softclaiming protective role pretty strongly at EoD. In hindsight, it was likely an attempt to draw the NK, but it would have been a good reason to shoot there for scum. It's also why I assume KT picked eira: Eira was likely either scum or someone scum would shoot to PR kill, so both halves of babysitter made him a good target.

Getting out the yarn now.

[Bingle]

There is something about my role that allows me to infer something about the setup but i don’t actually have the informed modifier

If you'd claimed informed I'd have said it was a scum claim. I'm roughly considering whether a massclaim is right here, because we don't have enough power yet for this to be balanced, but significantly more power than what is flipped is unlikely. If there is 0 more town power, Naerys is functionally mechcleared, but the balance of vanillacop/informed babysitter/IC vs goon/goon/informed is kind of low for town. I'd have preferred you didn't softclaim PR there, but it is what it is, I guess.

[Bingle]

Mechanically possible scum:

Titus
Doctor Drew
Chell - probs not S/S with Naerys based on the eira wagon progression
gob - Not with SD. Maybe not with Naerys?
Sleepy Dragon - Not with gob. Not with OK.
Organized Khaos sum Implies Gob according to Chell, but I think its actually pretty clearing for gob looking at VCs:

1.45 (UNCHANGED)

Votecount 1.45

Elements (E-2): KittyTacky, Bingle, Titus, Doctor Drew, Gamma Emerald
Bingle (E-2): Sleepy Dragon, Chell, Naerys, Elements, camelCasedSnivy
Eiralox (1): Organized Khaos
Gamma Emerald (1): Eiralox

Not Voting (1):

Celebloki

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

1.46

Votecount 1.46

Elements (4): KittyTacky, Bingle, Titus, Doctor Drew
Organized Khaos (4): Chell, Sleepy Dragon, Gamma Emerald, Naerys
Bingle (2): Elements, camelCasedSnivy
camelCasedSnivy (1):

Celebloki

Eiralox (1): Organized Khaos
Gamma Emerald (1): Eiralox

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

Chell/SD switching to scumpartner over me to disassemble my wagon doesn't make much sense to me, and GE/Naerys choosing the buddy over the supremely viable mislim that would be easy to let happen doesn't seem likely. Honestly, none of those four make sense bussing unless they were bussing to save me, and I'm pretty antipartnered with SD/Naerys tbh. OK seems like they'd have to be partnered with Drew/Titus and I'm just not really interested in that world atm. As for why OK scum doesn't hammer gob, that's pretty in line with frozen newbscum which is the narrative that leads to OK suspicion. If OK is scum it's probably with CCS/Titus/Drew (Me from an outside perspective)

Naerys - maybe cleared by setup?
camelCasedSnivy - Potential partners, everyone but Bingle. Actually weirdly, literally no pressure all game and no pressure on other slots, despite a lot of people expressing interest. Maybe antipartner with gob for GE wagon, but even that is weak as shit.

I think I want ccs here, because I don't think I see a team that doesn't include him and I'm vaguely interested to see what the night brings. It's also a little biased because I think ccs red flip hard clears me. I also think ccs may just be anti spewing here, only really giving an elusive scumread on me and not really making links to other players.

VOTE: ccs

[Bingle]

There is something about my role that allows me to infer something about the setup but i don’t actually have the informed modifier

If you'd claimed informed I'd have said it was a scum claim. I'm roughly considering whether a massclaim is right here, because we don't have enough power yet for this to be balanced, but significantly more power than what is flipped is unlikely. If there is 0 more town power, Naerys is functionally mechcleared, but the balance of vanillacop/informed babysitter/IC vs goon/goon/informed is kind of low for town. I'd have preferred you didn't softclaim PR there, but it is what it is, I guess.

I think massclaim is tomorrow, regardless of flips tonight.

[Bingle]

also idk what a lynchpin is

Something upon which everything else relies. Literally, the retention pin at the end of a wheel that stops everything else in the structure from falling apart.

[Bingle]

Hi, I hope you'll excuse my abscence until tomorrow. I want to do an extensive read of Snivy's meta but I won't have time for that until tomorrow.

Without reading his meta though, I feel gob is scimmier but I can understand why you guys want him as a wagon.

I'm fully aware of the irony in asking this, but who do you think is on a gob team?

[Bingle]

I am an outlier.

I just realized you're the account with the most posts on site, Titus. Gratz!

[Bingle]

@Titus: Thoughts?

Mechanically possible scum:

Titus
Doctor Drew
Chell - probs not S/S with Naerys based on the eira wagon progression
gob - Not with SD. Maybe not with Naerys?
Sleepy Dragon - Not with gob. Not with OK.
Organized Khaos sum Implies Gob according to Chell, but I think its actually pretty clearing for gob looking at VCs:

1.45 (UNCHANGED)

Votecount 1.45

Elements (E-2): KittyTacky, Bingle, Titus, Doctor Drew, Gamma Emerald
Bingle (E-2): Sleepy Dragon, Chell, Naerys, Elements, camelCasedSnivy
Eiralox (1): Organized Khaos
Gamma Emerald (1): Eiralox

Not Voting (1):

Celebloki

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

1.46

Votecount 1.46

Elements (4): KittyTacky, Bingle, Titus, Doctor Drew
Organized Khaos (4): Chell, Sleepy Dragon, Gamma Emerald, Naerys
Bingle (2): Elements, camelCasedSnivy
camelCasedSnivy (1):

Celebloki

Eiralox (1): Organized Khaos
Gamma Emerald (1): Eiralox

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

Chell/SD switching to scumpartner over me to disassemble my wagon doesn't make much sense to me, and GE/Naerys choosing the buddy over the supremely viable mislim that would be easy to let happen doesn't seem likely. Honestly, none of those four make sense bussing unless they were bussing to save me, and I'm pretty antipartnered with SD/Naerys tbh. OK seems like they'd have to be partnered with Drew/Titus and I'm just not really interested in that world atm. As for why OK scum doesn't hammer gob, that's pretty in line with frozen newbscum which is the narrative that leads to OK suspicion. If OK is scum it's probably with CCS/Titus/Drew (Me from an outside perspective)

Naerys - maybe cleared by setup?
camelCasedSnivy - Potential partners, everyone but Bingle. Actually weirdly, literally no pressure all game and no pressure on other slots, despite a lot of people expressing interest. Maybe antipartner with gob for GE wagon, but even that is weak as shit.

I think I want ccs here, because I don't think I see a team that doesn't include him and I'm vaguely interested to see what the night brings. It's also a little biased because I think ccs red flip hard clears me. I also think ccs may just be anti spewing here, only really giving an elusive scumread on me and not really making links to other players.

VOTE: ccs

[Bingle]

@Bingle,

I feel like you're using many words to ignore the obvious. Where's Khaos? Why aren't you voting him? Anti-associatives apply there too. He had a wagon. Your rationale is that ccs is voting you which seems overly defensive and a rationale without a difference.

Uhhh? Like half of that post is about khaos (OK).

Basically, I don’t think ok/sd or ok/gob really make any sense.

I don’t think you/drew are scum. So if ok is scum the pool becomes naerys/ccs/chell as partners and I don’t think both naerys and chell can be scum, so if ok is scum it basically has to be with ccs who is also independently scummy

[Bingle]

Your rationale is that ccs is voting you which seems overly defensive and a rationale without a difference.

Also… not really the issue. The issue is that ccs isn’t doing anything but vote for me, consistently, over multiple days without any sign that there is thought going into that tunnel.

[Bingle]

what is a whiskey pocket

Both of us enjoy whiskey and talk about it frequently in games.

[Bingle]

Is there anyone truly solving except dragon?

Tha fuck is this?

[Bingle]

Is there anyone truly solving except dragon?

Tha fuck is this?

Well maybe you a bit too. But what is gob doing, what is snivy doing? Khaos,Drew? I am not really doing well either. Would you call that a solving? Bcz i would not.

I would, perhaps charitably, say that chell seems to be solving and that both you and drew have had your moments. I definitely share you frustrations with a lot of the players, but the solution is attempts to engage, not vague shade at the entire plist.

What are your thoughts about my argument for ccs over khaos?

[Bingle]

Intent. Khaos, claim now.

[Bingle]

actually I looked at an ISO (not saying whose) and suddenly I feel a lot better about killing Khaos

VOTE: Khaos

Cele you are IC but your steer to CCS over Khaos is just so fucking bad I want to vote you

Can you vote Khaos again?

Noting that this is E-1, on the same page as an E-2 VC, asking for someone to quickhammer.

[Bingle]

I don't think games that are so long are for me.

Sliding into Khaos' notifications.

[Bingle]

nvm, didn't realize the cele vote was an unvote on Khaos.

[Bingle]

actually I looked at an ISO (not saying whose) and suddenly I feel a lot better about killing Khaos

VOTE: Khaos

Cele you are IC but your steer to CCS over Khaos is just so fucking bad I want to vote you

Can you vote Khaos again?

I'm kinda really invested in the ccs flip in light of this, actually.

[Bingle]

can you provide some context?

and what do you think of the wagon that has accumulated on

snivy

?

SD pushed me on the premise that putting eira on E-1 while acknowledging that I was doing so was scummy pre eira flip, with his only justification for townreading eira being that people were pushing eira for bad reasons, and then tried to claim towncred for the eira flip based on that shitty ass defense.


And I have been the main pusher behind a ccs lim, so…

SD has either been single-h

[Bingle]

The last line was going to be an unnecessarily inflammatory comment about sd’s reads if town, but I decided against it. Apparently I didn’t delete it all the way.

[Bingle]

me needs to sleep, me took sedative and has grad student stuff tomorrow morning



i want ask to delay hammering for more time and to hear a claim but i just want to see bodies pile

im thirsty for blood

Your slot has done literally fuckall. We’re gonna need tryhards Taly if you’re town.

[Bingle]

Sd’s Bingle case: Bingle is absent when actually vla and during the holiday season, and this is suspicious because Bingle is STILL THE PERSON WHO HAS DONE THE MOST SOLVING ITT.

You know what else is a thing you can check? Bingle’s engagement with the site as a whole, which… is low because Bingle has been fucking busy.

I’m fucking done with this. SD is not attempting to solve me, full stop. This narrative is godawful and fake as shit and if he’s town I am absolutely fine with this loss.

VOTE: Sd

[Bingle]

Bingle: somewhere said gob/Khaos is unlikely (i hope i remember it right)

Nah, that can’t be right. That would be solving and I’ve done none of that, according to SD and you.

But yeah, VCA tells me that when gamma tried to swing the ele wagon onto khaos with no time left in the day, that was probably not S/S.

[Bingle]

Off the rip, I think I am fine for both. As much as it was paining me to do, I did start this morning re-reading this game (speed skimming certain parts). I think the recent cases against Bingle make a lot of sense, I was town binning Bingle, but like I said, I was a bit shook to still be alive. I can't help much shake that (maybe Bingle even) kept me alive because I was pocketed and I have been wanting to re-evaluate where I stand.

gob I am not as sure of, I think I'd prefer Bingle over gob. I'll continue reading.

HURT: Bingle
HURT: gob

Don’t be dense. You were never the N1 kill. KT told us scum was informed of a town protective role.

[Bingle]

Bingle (5): Dragon, Snivy, Naerys, Celebloki, Drew
gob (3): Dragon, Chell, Celebloki

What the heck is this?

Scum shopping to mislim me.

[Bingle]

So Bingle is a player in this game, except they aren't really.

Also, and I can’t emphasize this enough. Fuck you.

[Bingle]

No.

[Bingle]

Sleepy has been actively avoiding reality to push me since he repped in, and I’m done with it.

I was pushing naerys in a lobby with eira, key, and ok, and that’s “going after lhf”. I woke up at 3 this morning and got to my hotel room at 8:45 before I could post itt, but my contributions are me “not being a player”, and as has done 0% of the due diligence to check if my RL is actually real when my presence across site has been shit. I have been literally the most proactive person in the game since page 1. I actively fought kl making the game shit. I started 4 fucking wagons D1. And sd has the fucking gall to say that I’m not playing this game. He also never responded to me when I asked how he felt about ccs pushing me with the narrative that I was powerwolfing and trying to control the thread.

[Bingle]

I still just wish we would go with Snivy.

And who has been chainsaw defending snivy all fucking day? Dragon.

[Bingle]

Off the rip, I think I am fine for both. As much as it was paining me to do, I did start this morning re-reading this game (speed skimming certain parts). I think the recent cases against Bingle make a lot of sense, I was town binning Bingle, but like I said, I was a bit shook to still be alive. I can't help much shake that (maybe Bingle even) kept me alive because I was pocketed and I have been wanting to re-evaluate where I stand.

gob I am not as sure of, I think I'd prefer Bingle over gob. I'll continue reading.

HURT: Bingle
HURT: gob

Don’t be dense. You were never the N1 kill. KT told us scum was informed of a town protective role.

Yeah I realized right after I posted that that Kitty was the obvious kill, he made it no secret what he was. I'm just lucky he wasn't babysitting me at the time. I just wonder if he chose to babysit Eira cause he knew he was going down and purposely took him with him or something. He wasn't really calling Eira scum, he was calling Elements and SD scum.

Eira softing PR was like the whole reason SD 'didn't like the wagon' there D1. Babysitter targeting the scummy PR soft makes a ton of sense. I also already said all of this.

[Bingle]

Well when SD first came in he was railing on RN for being in his lurky scum meta. Then he keeps shading Snivy, but doesn't seem to ever commit to keeping a vote there.

It's kind of a pattern if you look at SD's iso. SD votes/questions ccs and then immediately derails it in favor of whatever shitpush he can get away with.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle

Turbo lim dragon tomorrow. CCS also scum. Massclaim order:

PR/Not PR

SD
cCS
Taly
Gob
Drew
Titus

then

Actual Role

SD
Chell
cCS
Taly
Gob
Drew
Titus

Naerys is town if there's no town invest role, but the role is not +town power otherwise.

I have absolutely no faith that this town pulls this off, and if SD is town he's probably the worst thing that happened to this game, including KL and Eiralox fighting for 60 pages.

[Bingle]

aren't massclaim orders typically done scummiest to towniest?

Not strictly, there are other considerations. cCS, for example, softed the shit out of being a PR and so goes early in the PR/notApr claim list.

[Bingle]

im noy savvy with mech but whats the utility with massclaiming?

Balance solve. It's a lot more reliable with someone like Bingle who has reviewed literally dozens of games (possibly hundreds) but you can at least get a sense of what makes sense. Like... Does town have a tracker, an IC, and a vanilla cop? Probably not.

Does town have an IC and no other investigation? Probably not.

Also, you have two PR softs.

[Bingle]

Sorry Jackson. I didn't believe I did right by you. Gob really acted scummy particularly at EoD and I knew I wasn't likely going to overcome that. The fact we got to elo was partially me but ultimately I made the wrong call. You did nothing wrong. Chell had me. I should have done vca.

Don't beat yourself up Titus. You were not the biggest problem town had this game by anyone's metric: as a whole we were very disfunctional. Further, Chell played a very solid game, start to finish.