Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Hu Tao]

Hi.

[Hu Tao]

VT

[Hu Tao]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

[Hu Tao]

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Nope. I'm VT

[Hu Tao]

Timmer feels town so far

The "I'm terrible at D1" feels more like a townie trying to explain why he doesn't have many reads as opposed to Mafia worried about their optics

They seem curious but scum can also be curious so I'm not giving them that easy of a town read so far.

[Hu Tao]

Elements is a champion baffler for sure.

I'm not inclined to vote for the millers. I think I agree with Gamma's take.

Not sure why but this post gives me scum pings. I wish I could tell you why

[Hu Tao]

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

[Hu Tao]

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

What would I need to be informed about to claim miller as mafia?

That there are multiple miller's in this game? I'm not sure. Just trying to think of a scenario

[Hu Tao]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Nope. I'm VT

This is nonsense

It's only nonsense if it doesn't work. Guess we will see post game?

[Hu Tao]

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

VOTE: Naerys

[Hu Tao]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

You understand why it's generally anti-town to openly claim VT though, right?

Guess we will see

[Hu Tao]

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

This seems a bit overly defensive. In a weird way, I could see this be teammate talk. But not too strong of a read right now

[Hu Tao]

I don't think I've ever seen Random Nurse actually play a game. He's in a perpetual state of joining games and then flaking

Same

[Hu Tao]

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

What would I need to be informed about to claim miller as mafia?

That there are multiple miller's in this game? I'm not sure. Just trying to think of a scenario

Yes but I'm trying to get you to articulate why I would need to be informed about there being another miller in order to be fake claiming miller here.

I don't get your question. I'm saying that if you were scum and you were informed that there were multiple millers in the game, you could quickly claim Miller safely knowing others will do the same. Your claim would seem more genuine

[Hu Tao]

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

VOTE: Naerys

Could you please elaborate?

I don't like the second part of the post for some reason.

[Hu Tao]

I am here.

I've missed playing with ya. Glad you're here.

[Hu Tao]

My towns in no particular order
Gamma Emerald
davesaz
KawaiiKame
ssbm_Kyouko
Black
Hu Tao
TimmerRC

Ehat have I done to be town so far?

[Hu Tao]

What*

[Hu Tao]

Is 4:13 the most likely breakdown with 17 players?

These questions get old real fast

Yes, but they just started posting so I don't think it's bad

[Hu Tao]

I belive Dunn and ssbm's claim. Unless the small chance they are scum together or scum informed of miller's in this game. Either way, I wouldn't want them today at the very least. If there are actual millers, there is likely a way to confirm that somehow regardless.

Hu, if you thought the above, can you clarify why you quoted and vote Naerys here?

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

VOTE: Naerys

Yes it has more to do that I think the post seems fake to me, rather than the content. But good catch.

[Hu Tao]

My preliminary reads:

Town

Black
Kawaii

Mixed Feelings

Kyouko

Scum

Naerys
Hu
Gamma
Celebloki

Potential Pairings

Kyouko/Gamma
Naerys/Hu

I can't wait to see the reason I'm paired with my scumread

[Hu Tao]

Because most of my mafia career was on sites where roleclaiming was strictly forbidden and would get you modkilled instantly. So this is my second game with claiming allowed and it's... weird. Especially a VT claim so early. If you are a VT, you've helped the mafia target the power roles. If you are lying, you will destroy your credibility later on. I just don't get it.

I didn't think it was a serious claim tbh.

Hu answered that already by saying that it was a true claim. If it's all a gambit, again how is this helping town?

I will tell you what does not help town, getting fixated on a simple VT claim. In fact I'd be more suspect of someone claiming PR early day 1 than a Vanilla claim.
I suspect Hu for different reasons but the thing you are fixating on is... weird.

So I think they weren't too focused on it, they responded when they saw it and they asked another question after you replied

[Hu Tao]

I'm down to pressure there though, just not for the same reasons as yours.

VOTE: Hu

Try your best. Pressure makes diamonds

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Guillotina

I think there's partner equity in Guillotina/kyouko

Guillotina said she would support a kyouko wagon but jumped off less than 30 minutes later, right after Elements and I joined. I don't think the Celebloki vote was a very good reason to suddenly end their support and having Celebloki at the bottom of their preliminary reads in 310 feels like a performative justification for voting there rather than an actual read

In both 293 and 377 they made sure to include that they weren't voting for the same reason as the person they were sheeping which feels like scum that might be trying to flaunt that their read is unique and different

I think the questions from Guillotina are like...ok, but nothing scum couldn't come up with in an attempt to seem townie, and I think the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer

Good post. I also saw the weird shade on Timmer and tried to straighten it out, but maybe it was scum motivated.

[Hu Tao]

Black could be town here. Never seen her as scum before but she seems towny

[Hu Tao]

Anyone here known of any of the other players her that have legitimate meta/alignment tells?

Not really. You?

[Hu Tao]

I meant recently. Gets replaced at the start

[Hu Tao]

No I have completed games with him

[Hu Tao]

My preliminary reads:

Town

Black
Kawaii

Mixed Feelings

Kyouko

Scum

Naerys
Hu
Gamma
Celebloki

Potential Pairings

Kyouko/Gamma
Naerys/Hu

I can't wait to see the reason I'm paired with my scumread

Have you heard of distancing?

Yes but what specifically makes us a pair? What are the reasons.

[Hu Tao]

Also for someone wanting to apply 'pressure' to me, you quickly changed your vote

[Hu Tao]

Broccoli Quest 2 replaces Nono.

Broccoli!! Hi!!!

[Hu Tao]

Black could be town here. Never seen her as scum before but she seems towny

Agreed, Black is obvious town in my opinion.

They suspect me based on my playstyle which is what town usually do.

If they townread me right away that'd be a read flag.

This was scum!Guillotina's defense in CTC iirc

Good enough for me to vote them. I think their reasoning have been bad in general.

VOTE: guillotina

[Hu Tao]

VT

Hey, me too! You want to be my VT buddy?

Also can't believe I rolled scum on this alt, this means I have to use red instead of green. Who's ever heard of a RED broccoli, c'mon?

Yes let's be buddies

[Hu Tao]

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Fair reason to vote them. Personally I think guli is worse here

[Hu Tao]

I don’t fully believe in this but might as well see Loki’s response

This but like, my conviction is lacking ten times as much as gamma's.

Still, wagoning a null early Day 1 is not a horrible idea.

VOTE: Cele

Aren't we like, halfway through the phase?
This is why I don't often join larges, they're so slow and you hardly ever get any proper wagons day 1

Interesting I think larges go faster

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Guillotina

I think there's partner equity in Guillotina/kyouko

Guillotina said she would support a kyouko wagon but jumped off less than 30 minutes later, right after Elements and I joined. I don't think the Celebloki vote was a very good reason to suddenly end their support and having Celebloki at the bottom of their preliminary reads in 310 feels like a performative justification for voting there rather than an actual read

In both 293 and 377 they made sure to include that they weren't voting for the same reason as the person they were sheeping which feels like scum that might be trying to flaunt that their read is unique and different

I think the questions from Guillotina are like...ok, but nothing scum couldn't come up with in an attempt to seem townie, and I think the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer

I have never played with Guillotina and so they are rather difficult to get a grasp on. It could be just a playstyle thing, it could be a scum move. When i am trying to think like scum, i ask myself what could be their motivation. For example - scum!timmer could be trying to go for what he feels like easier wagon which wouldnt attract much attention.
Or scum!Guillotina is trying to sow some discord between townies. Could be Hu Tao their buddy? Cant rule it out

Also it could be just being bad at expressing things.( A stuff i am personally bad at.)
It could be also town!Timmer being paranoid of Hu Tao and town!Guillotina being paranoid of Timmer. Did Gullotina say what they think wbout Hu Tao? I need to look that up.

This post makes me think either you're scum or not reading. I'm going with scum.

[Hu Tao]

Hi I replaced someone

I'm also sick but forgot to ask to be taken off the replacements list, so uhhh don't expect more than gut reads for a few days

Hii cat! Hope you feel better~

[Hu Tao]

preflip analysis already? I'm going to hate this game

[Hu Tao]

Actually I started reading your wallpost and my main conclusion is you probably come from an era of mafia where scum did very little distancing, if you actually rule out Kyoko/Guillo and all the various Elements pairings. I have seen mafia do more convoluted distancing with my own eyes.

Still, I don't think mafia!Guillo has incentive to make such a post. So uh, UNVOTE: Guillo

I'm fine with giving guillo more time after that post. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, I could see that.

VOTE: naerys

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Guillotina

I think there's partner equity in Guillotina/kyouko

Guillotina said she would support a kyouko wagon but jumped off less than 30 minutes later, right after Elements and I joined. I don't think the Celebloki vote was a very good reason to suddenly end their support and having Celebloki at the bottom of their preliminary reads in 310 feels like a performative justification for voting there rather than an actual read

In both 293 and 377 they made sure to include that they weren't voting for the same reason as the person they were sheeping which feels like scum that might be trying to flaunt that their read is unique and different

I think the questions from Guillotina are like...ok, but nothing scum couldn't come up with in an attempt to seem townie, and I think the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer

I have never played with Guillotina and so they are rather difficult to get a grasp on. It could be just a playstyle thing, it could be a scum move. When i am trying to think like scum, i ask myself what could be their motivation. For example - scum!timmer could be trying to go for what he feels like easier wagon which wouldnt attract much attention.
Or scum!Guillotina is trying to sow some discord between townies. Could be Hu Tao their buddy? Cant rule it out

Also it could be just being bad at expressing things.( A stuff i am personally bad at.)
It could be also town!Timmer being paranoid of Hu Tao and town!Guillotina being paranoid of Timmer. Did Gullotina say what they think wbout Hu Tao? I need to look that up.

This post makes me think either you're scum or not reading. I'm going with scum.

Why exactly?

Because if you're talking about guillo, lots of their posts have been about me so for you to say you're trying to find out about if they posted about me after, doesn't add up.

[Hu Tao]

Playerlist:
Gamma Emerald
Celebloki
Naerys
Guillotina
Keyleth
TimmerRC
Elements

Posting this for myself to look up later. List of people I have suspicions on for one reason or another.

[Hu Tao]

More votes on Naerys I approve!

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Naerys

Do you have any valid reason or are you just sheeping Hu?

I'm just joining anything that might make it to e-2

Fair

[Hu Tao]

Playerlist:
Gamma Emerald
Celebloki
Naerys
Guillotina
Keyleth
TimmerRC
Elements

Posting this for myself to look up later. List of people I have suspicions on for one reason or another.

Towny

I try

[Hu Tao]

Playerlist:
Gamma Emerald
Celebloki
Naerys
Guillotina
Keyleth
TimmerRC
Elements

Posting this for myself to look up later. List of people I have suspicions on for one reason or another.

Towny

Really?

Oh no. You're catching onto me

[Hu Tao]

Anyway I think Black asked who would be a good wagon rn since she doesn't want Naerys. My answer is one of Kawaii/Hu Tao/CSF.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Why am I scum?

[Hu Tao]

Why Hu Tao?

I don't feel she's done anything townie, and while looking at Andres' ISO (He was originally a potential vote candidate), I found this which I agree with:

213 - I am not getting the vibes expressed by Hu Tao, which is why I have negative thoughts (I don’t believe the attack).

Is that the only reason? Sounds sus

[Hu Tao]

Broccoli you want Naerys right? What are your thoughts of me leading her wagon?

[Hu Tao]

Question to everyone, is it me or there seems to be resistance to a Naerys vote even though they have contributed a lot less than other slots like Elements or myself who got more votes on, in spite our higher activity. Why is that? What's the story?

I feel like Naerys is actually a pretty popular suspect?

Yes but not many actually trying to vote her out. Seems like just saying it but not doing much

[Hu Tao]

Question to everyone, is it me or there seems to be resistance to a Naerys vote even though they have contributed a lot less than other slots like Elements or myself who got more votes on, in spite our higher activity. Why is that? What's the story?

I feel like Naerys is actually a pretty popular suspect?

Yes but not many actually trying to vote her out. Seems like just saying it but not doing much

Oh fk off already
You are sitting on me with not really decent reasoning, sniping some clever remarks and doing nothing otherwise
I am pretty tired and annoyed of this “naerys must be scum”
Yeah no i am not and you are starting to piss me off

So am I scum? Or am I town that's misguided?

[Hu Tao]

I think I'm the same as town and scum. I try to approach the game the same. Probably better to ask other people.

[Hu Tao]

Wait that game Dave just linked that you were in.. I was town and I pushed hard on someone day 1. Sus.

[Hu Tao]

pushed hard on someone day 1

Self evaluate: pushed in that game from a place that had reasoning, or just pushed? What do your reasons, if any, look like here?
The post you quoted on/near the initial vote was Naerys saying that she TRd me and the 2 millers.

Also don't remember if I asked this -- would being a first voter but basically doing nothing since until the last few hours really be "leading"? I don't know if that's the actual situation or not, other than to say I certainly don't remember seeing anything I'd call leadership.

VOTE: Heipz

if it flips town, ill just blame Hu Tao.

I'm willing to take the blame if he's town. Don't think he is.

? I think this post in itself shows I pushed hard on someone day 1. And was the cause for the misvote..

[Hu Tao]

All naerys said is she's never seen me push on someone day 1. So just saying it's not accurate

[Hu Tao]

Good morning!

Why Hu Tao?

I don't feel she's done anything townie, and while looking at Andres' ISO (He was originally a potential vote candidate), I found this which I agree with:

213 - I am not getting the vibes expressed by Hu Tao, which is why I have negative thoughts (I don’t believe the attack).

Is that the only reason? Sounds sus

Can you elaborate on why it's sus?

Doesn't seem that strong of a reason

[Hu Tao]

I'll be fully honest, I think 858 is smack in Hu Tao's scum meta, BUT I want to hear first what she has to say on why it's sus.

This is why meta is so silly. I've heard EVERYTHING is my scum meta.

[Hu Tao]

I think it's not worth trying to even guess that.

[Hu Tao]

Like what does that even accomplish? If anything that makes me slightly scum read you for that question

[Hu Tao]

How many VTs/Goons do you reckon there are in this new "Complex" setup?

I'm preparing for an interview now and then going to bed, so I won't really be active until maybe 9 PM today.

Last post is in regards to this btw

[Hu Tao]

Like what does that even accomplish? If anything that makes me slightly scum read you for that question

Are you saying you are scumreading me for asking why voting you is sus?

Because I am just going to ask why is it slightly scummy to ask why is it sus to scumread you based on something that I think shouldn't be sus to scumread you on.

Are you confused yet? Because I'm not.

???? Read what I said that was in regards to. That post has nothing to do with you

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

I'm down to wagon this

Why?

[Hu Tao]

Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here

So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.

These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real

To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum

VOTE: kyouko

Erm. I think reads can change after a re-read so not sure what's scummy about ssbm there

[Hu Tao]

Fuck

This is literaly my first altslip ever

I blame my browser for being weird with cookies

[Hu Tao]

Plus the fact that i tend to be used as a limbait by scum.

Can someone here other than Naerys confirm this?

First game, that I had with her, people scumread her and I hard Town read her as town. So it could be true.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Celebloki

We gave them time to breath and has done little with the time we gave them.

Fair point, also Celeb said he wanted to post about something different than Nurse and then disappeared, but still I think Hu Tao is scummier.

I dont want Hu tao, I don't believe they are scum.

Elaborate?

I believe they are being an entitled brat which i see from town more often than not.
They're tunneling Naerys because they were inaccurate about their meta, which is also such a bad play, that I fail to see how scum would possibly think it is a good push. Scum are more aware of those kinds of pushes and just dont do them.

This isn't why I scumread naerys BTW. Like I said it's mostly gut just from their posts.

[Hu Tao]

I believe they are being an entitled brat which i see from town more often than not.
They're tunneling Naerys because they were inaccurate about their meta, which is also such a bad play, that I fail to see how scum would possibly think it is a good push. Scum are more aware of those kinds of pushes and just dont do them.

I think Hu Tao is specifically an entitled brat as scum. Here is a scum game of hers where she bullies me for not having her as my top townread:
link 1 - context
link 2 - entitlement

Why do I have to be a brat? I'm just trying to be confident in my reads for once.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Celebloki

We gave them time to breath and has done little with the time we gave them.

Fair point, also Celeb said he wanted to post about something different than Nurse and then disappeared, but still I think Hu Tao is scummier.

I dont want Hu tao, I don't believe they are scum.

Elaborate?

I believe they are being an entitled brat which i see from town more often than not.
They're tunneling Naerys because they were inaccurate about their meta, which is also such a bad play, that I fail to see how scum would possibly think it is a good push. Scum are more aware of those kinds of pushes and just dont do them.

I feel like Hu Tao is a player that sorts emotionally as town, and I’m not really seeing that currently.

I can buy this that you believe this.

[Hu Tao]

???? Read what I said that was in regards to. That post has nothing to do with you

damn I feel dumb now

Does this change your read in regard to me or no

[Hu Tao]

Also I'm posting this for post game. Let this be the game I quote for people to stop trying to meta read me.

[Hu Tao]

I got hammered with that last vote. I was town pr. Congrats. Have fun in the game without me.

[Hu Tao]

No you weren’t. You’re at 7 votes. Your at E-2.

You're no fun

[Hu Tao]

Also I'm posting this for post game. Let this be the game I quote for people to stop trying to meta read me.

I got hammered with that last vote. I was town pr. Congrats. Have fun in the game without me.

What's your full claim?

I'm a doctor

[Hu Tao]

Hold on. Let me look at my role pm

[Hu Tao]

I am a complex indecisive doctor. That sounds about right

[Hu Tao]

Also I'm posting this for post game. Let this be the game I quote for people to stop trying to meta read me.

I got hammered with that last vote. I was town pr. Congrats. Have fun in the game without me.

What's your full claim?

I'm a doctor

Just like in 2316?
Though tbh i cant see a reason why scum!you would claim that.
Moving you from scum to null.

If you can't see scum me saying that how does that just move me to null. Also why would you still be voting me if that's the case?

[Hu Tao]

Personally I think the "I got hammered" was a gambit to try and dissolve the wagon. PR claim to get a few days leeway. I don't believe any of it.

Well personally I think you're scum. So we are at a crossroads

[Hu Tao]

I think this claim is scum trying to get info. From experience as partner with Hu Tao it feels very likely.

When I was scum with you, when was I in a situation like this?

[Hu Tao]

I wanted to claim VT in the beginning so scum wouldn't target me. I guess I need to work on being townier when I do that

[Hu Tao]

I am a complex indecisive doctor. That sounds about right

I have no idea why you would put a line as "im making this up"-y as "that sounds about right" onto your claim but looking at the site info for this kind of game, the role makes perfect sense.

Well. It was to make scum think I'm lying. But now that you pointed it out, that's not going to work anymore. Thanks.

[Hu Tao]

I think this claim is scum trying to get info. From experience as partner with Hu Tao it feels very likely.

When I was scum with you, when was I in a situation like this?

Not the same circumstance, but very much the same technique.
I don't recommend a counter from the real doc, if there is one.

[Hu Tao]

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

Eliminating doc optimal. Yes.

[Hu Tao]

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

So you are in favour of limming a claimed Doctor?

yep. Or Celebloki?

I don't believe the claim at all. I also don't believe for a second that Hu Tao thought she was actually hammered so the claim itself was no way a twilight-esque spew. It was a calculated gambit.

I think Hu Tao was so obviously

not

hammered it's hard to believe they were not joking there? At least that was my impression. I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously

I'm okay with cele gone

[Hu Tao]

Oh its still day 1. Alright well I'll see you guys day 2.

Have you always been in this game?

[Hu Tao]

Why self preservation? I think it's perfectly reasonable not to believe the claim.

I feel like Celeb's been asked to comment on the game and not their own situation and this is the first thing that they've come out swinging on. The thought isn't bad, the whole thing feels weird to me as well, but the adamant tone when this is a chance to deflect attention off of themselves just feels convenient.

That said... Hu dropped this awkwardly and a bit jokily and then seems to have disappeared, which I don't like.

So sorry for not checking my phone for mafia in an hour.....

[Hu Tao]

@Black + Gamma

Part of my SR on Hu Tao is based on the game that just finished.

That said, I should really sleep now.

ain't no way

[Hu Tao]

Alright, Hu Tao.

You have been mislimmed a lot right? Werent you mislimmed in a game we played together previously?

I think I've been eliminated twice wrongly. Last one was my fault really though.

[Hu Tao]

Alright, Hu Tao.

You have been mislimmed a lot right? Werent you mislimmed in a game we played together previously?

I think I've been eliminated twice wrongly. Last one was my fault really though.

So what did you claim? I want to hear in a different context than everyone else because it seems the way you claimed was odd.

I'm a doctor. I just pretended to get hammered for reactions.

[Hu Tao]

Posting here on mobile sucks

Really? That's all I use.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Celebloki

[Hu Tao]

We let Hu live and let the claim be resolved at night.

The realistic survivability for a doctor claim is 2 nights, we dont worry until then.

I expect to live. It's a large so scum have time to kill me

[Hu Tao]

Gob this might be the first time I tr you

[Hu Tao]

Hmm I wonder

[Hu Tao]

I think if kyouko flips scum then Keyleth has some partner equity here. These posts feel pretty meh if I consider a scum!kyouko world

Spoiler: Keyleth Quotes

I'm not sure. Dunn's claim felt like a joke with it being the first post of the game. Kyouko's feels more real but I'm not familiar enough with her to tell if it's coming from scum

I feel Duun's claim is genuine, millers often claim miller in their opening posts. Duun's miller claim feels straight up, unlikely that mafia plays this directly. Kyouko feels real/potentially opportunistic, shielding herself behind the initial miller claim if she is mafia

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

I understand your thought process. We should probably give them a chance though. At least, I would feel bad voting them out based off that one post when it could be more than one miller. Can't say I personally played with those often so the idea is neat!

Hrm, maybe I'm not seeing it for Kyouko but that could just be the way I play. I'll sit here and let people do their thing though the threadstate seems healthy so I'm not gonna get in yalls way.

Kyouko, Kawaii, and CSF have the most points I should add. So if anyone has suspicions on those slots I'd love to talk them over with you.

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

I understand where your post is coming fromI read it as someone just wanting to state the obvious. However, I personally don't really know where to point the smoking gun because I can see it as either side. I've given Dave BOTD because most people push me because of how I play on here, do you think the shade posts are in bad faith?

I can now say Kyouko feels like the same game we were in without being smited phew.

I am so lost over why people want to vote kyouko truthfully, can you spell it out to me like I'm five? Thank you.

Actually I think key is scum and trying to soft protect a town based on that

[Hu Tao]

I'm torn between trusting kyouko and voting Gamma and trusting Gamma and voting Keyleth

Someone help

I wouldn't trust gamma so far. I can see key being scum. But I also see some posts that I can see being town so I'm kind of split on that. Anyone else you scumread?

[Hu Tao]

I'm not but the votes will probably be telling and as a claimed Miller it might be better that I die sooner rather than later.

I don't think there's anything wrong with point #1 above. 17 players, 4 scum, leaves 12 targets for the NK after a mislim, 13 if we hit scum.

That's about a 9% chance of blocking the kill if the doc is unclaimed and doesnt get killed. This is negligible and if I were scum.i.would not be killing Hu Tao until her chances improved or until I was worried they would start blocking kills on the people I actually want to kill.

N2 after losing another town to a mislim that is an 11% chance of stopping the kill. N3 continues as 1/7 which is maybe 13.5% (estimate). By N4 there is a 20% chance, assuming mislims all along the way. This is the earliest I would ever consider shooting Hu Tao as scum as long as Hu Tao remains suspected

You talking about Hu Tao like an expendable townie and not like scum that needs to be eliminated. "Let's kill them because their chances to block a kill are slim anyway". 9% chance is better than 0% chance.

Ssbm still seems town to me.

[Hu Tao]

guess I should be voting elsewhere given deadline is in about 32 hours. Thought we had a little longer - still looking at Gamma games in the meantime
VOTE: Celebloki

This is the best vote. Agreed 100%

[Hu Tao]

I'm torn between trusting kyouko and voting Gamma and trusting Gamma and voting Keyleth

Someone help

The thing is I only think Key is scum if Kyouko is scum because the thing I latched onto is something I consider a partner tell
VOTE: TimmerRC
How about this instead?

I'd be fine settling here too but prefer Cele

[Hu Tao]

I don't

b

elieve the claim at all. I also don't believe for a second that Hu Tao thought she was actually hammered so the claim itself was no way a twilight-esque spew. It was a calculated gambit.

I think this is town regardless of Hu Tao's alignment

Wrong

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Hu Tao]

Is there an appetite for a Dunn wagon here?

Honestly him voting me there probably means he's town.

[Hu Tao]

What if I said I was a miller

b

odyguard, and so Hu Tao's claim, while not impossible to be town, feels less likely to come from town?

It's complex so I can see us having both. Especially with the restrictions I have.

[Hu Tao]

I didn't think Hu Tao was going to be eliminated unless the bodyguard comes forward today. ssbm_Kyouko is currently the leading wagon and I don't like that wagon.

We agree on something

[Hu Tao]

I'm torn between trusting kyouko and voting Gamma and trusting Gamma and voting Keyleth

Someone help

I wouldn't trust gamma so far. I can see key being scum. But I also see some posts that I can see being town so I'm kind of split on that. Anyone else you scumread?

Key, Dunn, still not feeling great about kyouko but that has lessened a little. I could compromise on Cele

Out of those. I'm only going Cele and maybe key

[Hu Tao]

@Hu Tao thoughts on Dunn's BG claim?

Just posted but I think it's possible we are both town

[Hu Tao]

So we leave both the BG and Doc alive for now and compromise on Cele? Or we go kyouko. I don't think enough people want Key or else I would push for that

Kyoko seems town to me. I'm pretty against it. Cele or I'll go key.

[Hu Tao]

@Hu Tao thoughts on Dunn's BG claim?

Just posted but I think it's possible we are both town

What makes you think bodyguard could be town from your point of view?

I'm not good at balance talk but I'm pretty restricted and Miller bodyguard is anti town too. So I think it works

[Hu Tao]

Let me go back to my list of people I think can be scum

[Hu Tao]

Playerlist:
Gamma Emerald
Celebloki
Naerys
Guillotina
Keyleth
TimmerRC
Elements

Posting this for myself to look up later. List of people I have suspicions on for one reason or another.

Anyone here I am willing to vote out.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: celeboki

Not sure if I am voting already or not.

[Hu Tao]

Who did gob replace? I'm so confused

[Hu Tao]

okay let's go key then

VOTE: key

[Hu Tao]

I think Dunn is town

[Hu Tao]

Is anyone against voting key?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Gob

What if we flash wagon this. =)

Out of all the games I've played with gob. This is the most town I've seen.

[Hu Tao]

If it saves us time since we are approaching Deadline, I can go ahead and claim now before we waste time on a wagon on me.

Well you just softed you are a PR and the doctor is out, might as well.

Sus

[Hu Tao]

Could we get a vote count please

[Hu Tao]

If it saves us time since we are approaching Deadline, I can go ahead and claim now before we waste time on a wagon on me.

Well you just softed you are a PR and the doctor is out, might as well.

Sus

No, if he is a PR why say he'd claim to avoid a wagon instead of waiting more to see if there is real danger, if he is town PR he shouldnt have softed it yet.

He's not being wagoned anymore. No need to

[Hu Tao]

I don't want any of the current wagons, that's fun

Willing to wagon you too

[Hu Tao]

Gob would you mind telling Kyouoko how i always respond to people who refuse to give reasons?

I have a different meta approach to use on Gamma but can't do it mobile. Maybe later.

Keyleth would be acceptable. I still think Hu Tao is scum but willing to see if she resolves.

Well you scumread is leading the key wagon. How do you proceed?

[Hu Tao]

I do think gamma is sus but I'm okay with key going through

[Hu Tao]

I have always thought that the thing you're looking for in Gamma is very much her personality and I'd be very surprised if there is enough variance with alignment to make it a reliable tell.

If you scumread me, are you not suspicious of voting key? Or do you think we are partners

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: gamma

I think key is town. Yikes

[Hu Tao]

I didn't even know that was a player here

[Hu Tao]

Anyone want to just flash wagon Andres?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Dunnstral

A miller that's moderately scummy who crumbed someone else's bodyguard claim

Worst vote of the game

[Hu Tao]

11 hours left. What do we do

[Hu Tao]

Key will likely flip town.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Celebloki

I think we consolidate here

You actually might be scum here

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Gamma

I'm good with this

VOTE: gamma

[Hu Tao]

I can see that the emotion in the post where Gamma voted me is not something that Gamma is truly feeling.

The problem is, that Gamma said that she isnt feeling really well recently. And in that state emotions are rather difficult to control. So nope, i dont believe Gamma is exaggerating anything.

I believe gamma. But I think that's NAI

[Hu Tao]

I don't believe gamma. But I'm okay with kawaii

[Hu Tao]

Just to make it clear, im not sulking. I am replacing out. In too many games + stuff at work came up

See you later~ hope things get better!

[Hu Tao]

I still think gob is town.

[Hu Tao]

In the event I die tonight and I can't out any more reads. I think the suspicious group of people are:

Elements
Black
Andres
Gamma
Naerys
Dave
Broccoli?

Kind of a big list but I think that has multiple scum

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: kawaii

[Hu Tao]

Gamma was obvious scum. I wish I just pushed that through.

[Hu Tao]

Wait I'm confused. Does this mean there is a sk? I'm not 100% sure how these mechanics work.

[Hu Tao]

Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one. Protected gamma and they both died.

[Hu Tao]

Just me and gamma I believe. But I figured scum wouldn't kill me

[Hu Tao]

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

This seems a bit overly defensive. In a weird way, I could see this be teammate talk. But not too strong of a read right now

!!!!!

Calling it. I was right on this.

VOTE: Elements

Let's listen to me today

[Hu Tao]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

You could be a scum role cop. You softed doc/bodyguard.

Why would you think scum have 2 goons in a complex setup? Makes no sense to claim as town to do this.

[Hu Tao]

Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one. Protected gamma and they both died.

This is complete nonsense. Gamma wouldn't be targeted by her own team.

Do people even read the game?

Read Black's role please. The could only choose 1 of 2 options at night. Black is dead. Why would I say they are teamed?

[Hu Tao]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

This is rubbish. You think broccoli was scumreading me yesterday. I was scumreading gamma. And we are all teamed?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Hu Tao

This is certain scum

[Hu Tao]

I wish everyone was so sure about that, she should have been the elim yesterday in that case instead of multiple speed wagons on other people that pushes more claim shenanigans.

Oh no. My claim made gamma claim which caused him to die. Tragedy....

[Hu Tao]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

You could be a scum role cop. You softed doc/bodyguard.

Why would you think scum have 2 goons in a complex setup?

Makes no sense to claim as town to do this.

Wdym by the red?

Also could you quote the soft please?

Makes no sense as a town role cop to claim vanilla result on me here when goon was flipped already in a complex setup

[Hu Tao]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

This is rubbish. You think broccoli was scumreading me yesterday. I was scumreading gamma. And we are all teamed?

You could be. Distancing exists, after all.

You said I claimed doctor as vanilla town before. Yet you think I scum still?

[Hu Tao]

I wish everyone was so sure about that, she should have been the elim yesterday in that case instead of multiple speed wagons on other people that pushes more claim shenanigans.

Oh no. My claim made gamma claim which caused him to die. Tragedy....

Gamma uses she/it pronouns.

She*

[Hu Tao]

Her* sorry I was typing too fast

[Hu Tao]

I know no one is gonna believe this. But I wouldn't have n1'd black here. I did that last game and I think it wouldn't be fair to do the same here. Unless she claimed pr or something, I'd like to play with her actually

[Hu Tao]

Makes no sense as a town role cop to claim vanilla result on me here when goon was flipped already in a complex setup

So you think Cele is lying?

I think Cele is a scum role cop potentially. I'll quote the doc soft

[Hu Tao]

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's.

In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

[Hu Tao]

I still think Elements is tied with gamma as I showed from early game. So I prefer that. It's possible that Cele could be town but not sure why they would soft doc as a cop.

[Hu Tao]

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

This seems a bit overly defensive. In a weird way, I could see this be teammate talk. But not too strong of a read right now

!!!!!

Calling it. I was right on this.

VOTE: Elements

Let's listen to me today

I still think Elements is tied with gamma as I showed from early game. So I prefer that. It's possible that Cele could be town but not sure why they would soft doc as a cop.

Where did you show I was tied with Gamma?

Above

[Hu Tao]

My towns in no particular order
Gamma Emerald
davesaz
KawaiiKame
ssbm_Kyouko
Black
Hu Tao
TimmerRC

When elements flips scum this should be an interesting list

[Hu Tao]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

[Hu Tao]

Town

Roden

Likely Town by claim

Dunnstral
ssbm_Kyouko
Celebloki

Too lazy to sort everyone else now but I'm posting it now to do this later.

Random Nurse
Naerys
davesaz
Broccoli
Guillotina
Keyleth
TimmerRC
Elements
Andresvmb

[Hu Tao]

My towns in no particular order
Gamma Emerald
davesaz
KawaiiKame
ssbm_Kyouko
Black
Hu Tao
TimmerRC

When elements flips scum this should be an interesting list

What about when I flip town?

Then I'm sorry

[Hu Tao]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

maybe bcz u went from vanilla claim to doc claim. That does not make you the most trustworthy person around here.

I'm a doctor in spirit. Healing this fractured town together.

[Hu Tao]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

maybe bcz u went from vanilla claim to doc claim. That does not make you the most trustworthy person around here.

I do agree it looks weird on paper but Gamma was trying to send Hu Tao over! Do you think Gamma was just trying to damn a partner over someone like Kyouko or myself? I guess the main question is how many of the main wagons do we believe were on a wolf between Hu Tao, Kyouko, and myself. We already know the other two were one town and one wolf. Oh this is fun!

If Gamma thought that Hu wont get elim, it could be possible. But yeah, thats very unlikely. Evidence points to Hu being town.Still being wary of her, though.

Me and her could only be 2 goons so I think from a mechanical standpoint it doesn't work either.

[Hu Tao]

Cele I would go as far as to say try and look for vanilla results. They will probably be town.

[Hu Tao]

Also checking the Miller claims wouldn't be terrible either.

[Hu Tao]

But you scumread me so you likely won't listen to me anyway

[Hu Tao]

I’m in the middle of a deep dive of D1 so I’ll return with all my thoughts once I’ve fully caught up, which may take a few hours.

In the mean time, VOTE: Elements.

I'm looking forward to it

[Hu Tao]

Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one.

Protected gamma

and they both died.

This is complete nonsense. Gamma wouldn't be targeted by her own team.

Do people even read the game?

Read Black's role please. The could only choose 1 of 2 options at night. Black is dead. Why would I say they are teamed?

You said Black protected Gamma. Gamma flipped scum. Gamma wasn't killed by scum. If Black did protect Gamma then where did the scum kill go? Therefore it's nonsense that Black protected Gamma.

? Read her role. It's right there

[Hu Tao]

You have the following active abilities, which you may use one of per night:

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action,

that player will be protected from one direct kill, but will die if you are killed.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune that Night to kills targeted at you directly, but will die if a player kills your target.

[Hu Tao]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

They are still trying to confuse things by saying they protected Gamma when they didn't. Where is the town motivation there?

Are people not reading the game... like actually.

[Hu Tao]

When did I ever say that

[Hu Tao]

Lastly I think Gob lied about their reason for replacing out being that they were in too many games. Point being they joined a new game right after replacing out of this one and have posted nearly a hundred times on the site since then.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Gobs reason is his own and this post is really bad.

He might just misunderstand. I'm not sure

[Hu Tao]

I’m certainly not going to listen to Hu Tao. I suppose she could have lied to cover any other PR and avoid getting limmed, but I think it’s more likely she’s a goon.

I am telling you she's a VT who fake claimed doc. I wasn't buying her claim for a second.

If Hu Tao flips Scum I want this slot examined next.

Too bad that's not happening. What are your thoughts on the night?

[Hu Tao]

For fun

[Hu Tao]

I'm fine with Cele not explaining.

[Hu Tao]

I got through #909. Through there, I have the game something like this:

Town
{Black, KawaiiKame}
Strong Lean Town
{Celebloki}
Lean Town
{TimmerRC, Dunnstral [Miller Claim], ‪Cat scratch fever, ‬Guillotina}
Slight Lean Town
{ssbm_Kyouko [Miller Claim], Broccoli Quest 2, Random Nurse, Naerys}
Uncertain
{Hu Tao}
Slight Lean Scum
{davesaz}
Lean Scum
{Elements, Keyleth}
Scum
{Gamma Emerald}

Spoiler: With Quotes

[Comments before end of D1]

217 - I can’t say I like the reasoning for the vote expressed here, but I don’t know that Scum openly admits to voting as a form of policy instead of just saying it was RVS. I know Celebloki is getting a lot of heat for this explanation from what I can tell, so I would just say that I don’t get SR the slot for this. I think if Scum had to explain the vote to draw the least amount of suspicion, they probably just say that it’s an RVS vote and that’s it. The extra explanation clearly isn’t angled at making themselves look good.
219 - Interestingly, I’m surprised to actually agree with this thought. It may not be entirely accurate. Still, I like the skepticism that underlies it.
285 - This may be the sort of question Scum asks to appear to be advancing the game. Or it could be genuine curiosity, not sure. If you’re asking me (and I know you’re not), there’s no definitive process that works. At the end of the day, Scum have to bullshit.
293 - I’m not a fan of this post. I would argue Kyouko didn’t seem “afraid”. They were simply trying to connect (yes, despite the vote). I don’t know if Kyouko’s Miller claim was “opportunistic” - I may have to revisit the context.
306 - I can’t say I understand this pivot. If you really believe Kyouko is trying to attack you early because they’re scared of your slot (I presume because you’re good at catching Scum), then why not keep up the pressure after they’ve collected some quick votes?
327 - I agree that Guillotina’s bursts of posts are probably +Towny. Nevertheless, I share Black’s “concern” about the switch to Celebloki there.
348 - Is this back and forth supposed to convince me that Random Nurse and Guillotina can’t be partnered?
384 - Certainly quite a bit of overlap with some of the reactions I have felt. Though the questions themselves are probably easy to fake from Scum, I’ll admit that the level of enthusiasm is probably difficult to sustain from Scum. Though that’s coming from the perspective of someone that doesn’t like playing Scum ever.
391 - I don’t think you can know this @Elements. If the pivot happened within 30 minutes, then a previous post shouldn’t have caused the switch. I would have found it more believable if Guillotina had simply said that they were

also

suspicious of Celebloki for the reasons explained.
402 - Black’s skepticism here in response to Elements claiming to not have a read of Guillotina is, in my mind, warranted.

[Reading After D1 has ended]
449 - This is far fetched. Not a particularly convincing argument from Guillotina.
468 - For reasons specified above, I don’t like this argument from Kyouko.
478 - Obviously Broccoli’s read of Gamma as Scum is negative points. To be totally fair, I don’t think I ever even had a chance to express a read there so I can understand why this opinion might be annoying.
482 - Since this doesn’t read like distancing to me, Celebloki is more often than not Town (assuming this keeps up).
484 - Since we know this is a Scum motivated wagon, these votes from Elements and Broccoli are not positives. Do I think the whole Scum Team jumped on a slot all at the same time? No.
518 - Now this is interesting. Gamma actively arguing against a vote for Guillotina in this way is either a pocket or a Partner. Will have to decide which one.
526 - I don’t know what to make of this interaction between Broccoli and Gamma. Is it too blatant for Partners?
529 - Meh. Ruling out Kyouko and Guillotina over 18 just doesn’t make any sense to me. Dunnstral and Elements could certainly be partnered. If anything, 28 is some evidence in favor of the idea that perhaps Dunn and

Gamma

are not partnered. And the way Gamma shaded Elements is clearly nothing that Scum aren’t capable of doing. This post isn’t particularly impressive.
The interaction between Gamma and Random Nurse I will admit didn’t strike me as Partners. So I would argue there’s some positives there.
536 - This probably just clears CSF for now.
546 - I do agree that Guillotina and Gamma are probably not partnered given 329. I do think that Black’s argument against Guillotina was valid, but I’m having a hard time simply ignoring the more direct interactions with Gamma.
549 - Probably Town indicative for Dunnstral (the attack on Gamma).
563 - Not great in a vacuum. Funny enough, Keyleth SR’ing one of the most widely TR’ed slots in the game is a positive for me.
565 - This certainly confirms the observation above. Also, this is a positive for Naerys - they’re reaching out to a slot that’s +Town in my book to defend another Town that’s being (wrongly) suspected.
567 - If this ended up with a vote, perhaps Broccoli and Gamma are not really partnered.
569 - I don’t know if Gamma as Scum reacts to a Partner’s suspicion this way, but it’s very convincing distancing.
581 - Then again, this feels like a bad vote. Having said that, Gamma trying to move Guillotina from Naerys to Celebloki (not directly, of course) in 582 has to be considered as a subtle defense.
592 - I’m thinking this post from davesaz is bad. I would argue it’s clearly shading a Towny, but it’s also not particularly strong. Just attacking the strength of the read.
595 - All this analysis, only to vote Town. That’s a shame. I remain in disagreement that Gamma flipping Scum spews Elements Town.
602 - This also doesn’t feel like distancing. Considering it’s a “spicy take” from Scum, I can’t imagine it’s accurate. 625 also means that the take is followed with an actual vote, which I would argue is a decent indication of it not being SvS. Also, I don’t think it’s particularly common to accuse a Partner of “bullying”.
603 - I had a good laugh at this. Timmer is again, probably just Town.

As a side note, this game feels very dense. It’s taking me a long time to parse through each page.

626 - Uh oh. Not good from Keyleth.
627 - Yeah, I can’t currently conclude that Broccoli and Gamma are trying to distance here. The use of the word “bullying” and Broccoli’s clear negative reaction to that are pretty Town indicative to me.
639 - Interesting line here from Guillotina.
640 - Now this I would actually vote. davesaz is doing the classic I see my Partner is struggling with their push, so I will argue they’re both Town in a way to protect their position.
648, 665 - We can certainly dispense with the notion that Elements and Gamma can’t be partnered.
658 - Since this is real pressure, Celebloki is probably never Scum here.
674 - It’s going to be hard to trust Kyouko in light of the set of posts culminating here.
691 - There’s something shady about this post. Arguing that your own behavior is +Town because you’re helping de-obfuscate is quite questionable.
692 - @Kyouko, I read Dunn’s post as defending Kawaii from Gamma. Now of course it doesn’t matter. Kawaii was Town, and I agree upon reading more closely that Dunn wasn’t doing that, but instead was reacting to Elements. I think there’s other reasons to believe that Dunnstral is Town in any case.
The point on Kawaii and Timmer was a bit more nuanced, I would argue. TImmerRC seemed confused like you said, and somewhat outraged, that Hu Tao had claimed VT. Kawaii then said “it’s definitely weird” which is another way of saying “it’s Scummy”, which I didn’t agree with (I don’t think Hu Tao is Scummy for claiming VT so early). At the time, I felt the way Kawaii approached the situation was Scummy. I was wrong, obviously.
696 - Though I have to read through the collection of posts here again, the case constructed by Kyouko of Celebloki is probably flawed, and should be scrutinized.
711 - This is Keyleth defending Scum and one of my biggest SRs so I can’t say I think this is great.
715 - I can’t view piling onto Celebloki here as a positive (from davesaz).
723 - I think Kyouko arguing this deep in the game that the reasoning behind an RVS vote is sufficient to justify a large wagon on a player is just a bad look. It may not be coming from Scum, admittedly. As in, why would Scum spend so much time making themselves look tunneled with the primary reason being an RVS vote? But at the time, it was the wagon with the most votes on. So that’s something to consider.
728 - I think voting Elements here is justified.
756 - If I’m being objective, I would think this is a positive from Guillotina. And also, I think Broccoli criticizing the focus on the RVS vote in 755 is a tad positive, but not to the same extent since they found a way to maintain their vote regardless. Now, Celebloki would have to be confirmed Town, but shifting away there I would argue is +Town.
766 - I would argue Dunnstral probably has the game somewhat upside down from reading this (up to that point), but I’m not thinking that’s Scummy.
783 - I would argue this is Scummy from Keyleth.
784 - This reads like a pocketing attempt to me. TR’ing the strategy put forth by Broccoli, I would argue, is being done because Broccoli TR’ed Gamma pretty strongly. My point being that I am not of the mindset that Gamma and Broccoli are partners even if Broccoli seems to have consistently defended Gamma throughout.
817 - Would like to highlight this post from davesaz. Not a good look.
822 - From my perspective, this pool for an execution is problematic since I TR all of these slots. Gotta say - definitively calling Broccoli anything this game is going to be tough (from what I’ve observed so far).
833 - This is the sort of subtle defense of a Partner I would expect to see (davesaz and Gamma, in this case).
848 - I’ll just quickly give my thoughts on Town blocks but I don’t expect to get much of a reaction to it. Town blocks are a necessary evil. Setting up a POE is key to putting Scum in a corner. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Town blocks should be trusted forever if set up D1 (and Broccoli clearly would have lost the game that way if it wasn’t for Black’s excellent use of their role), but I don’t like these posts arguing against their use. In my experience, they can be extremely effective tools. Having said that, I understand Celebloki’s skepticism. I just think it’s misplaced.
860, 861, 863 - Hm. I started reading this sequence as potentially partners, but the fact that Gamma was completely willing to apply pressure here with a vote deflates that argument to a large extent.
867 - The AtE from Naerys is real.
873 - This is too harsh for partners (though there’s always a chance it’s deception). I’m thinking davesaz and Hu Tao are not partnered as Scum.
909 - I have a couple of broad thoughts. Firstly, Kyouko reevaluating like this is Towny. There’s a couple of things that I have picked up from Naerys that make me think the slot is maybe Town (for example, the AtE in #867). I also think that Kyouko is trying to figure out Naerys’ alignment with nuance, and it doesn’t read like fake reasoning to me. The analysis whether Naerys was being waffly with the points about the millers seems solid. I don’t think the underlying points are super strong per se, but I think it’s a bit too nuanced for Scum.

Black as town and gamma as scum. Bold of you

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

???

Why would we contain a scum. Makes no sense. This is Naerys as scum to have this logic

[Hu Tao]

If Hu Tao flips NOT-Vanilla, then set Cele on fire.

I've already confirmed I'm vanilla. So this makes no sense

[Hu Tao]

You made this post and I wonder how you could reply to this without realizing Hu Tao was a Doctor claim:

Celebloki claimed role cop and claimed that Hu is Vanilla. Pay attention, please.
This could be scum disconnected from game. I got my eyes on you.

I think you are the one who is confused here.

Naerys is scum I believe. I might be willing to go there over element's today. Thoughts?

[Hu Tao]

Just iso Naerys and look at her last 20 posts or so. It's waffling back and forth between whoever has the read at the moment to blend in

[Hu Tao]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's.

In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

I think i was hasty in believing Celebloki.
UNVOTE: Hu tao

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

maybe bcz u went from vanilla claim to doc claim. That does not make you the most trustworthy person around here.

I do agree it looks weird on paper but Gamma was trying to send Hu Tao over! Do you think Gamma was just trying to damn a partner over someone like Kyouko or myself? I guess the main question is how many of the main wagons do we believe were on a wolf between Hu Tao, Kyouko, and myself. We already know the other two were one town and one wolf. Oh this is fun!

If Gamma thought that Hu wont get elim, it could be possible. But yeah, thats very unlikely. Evidence points to Hu being town.Still being wary of her, though.

Lastly I think Gob lied about their reason for replacing out being that they were in too many games. Point being they joined a new game right after replacing out of this one and have posted nearly a hundred times on the site since then.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Gobs reason is his own and this post is really bad.

Naerys, understand that if Hu Tao flips Scum I will also be suspecting you because it could be seen as you trying to shift my focus away from HT and onto Celebloki.

If you're Town, understand this possibility. If you're Scum understand that I will eventually catch you.

I am not trying to shift anything. I just dont know whom to trust.

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

You made this post and I wonder how you could reply to this without realizing Hu Tao was a Doctor claim:

Celebloki claimed role cop and claimed that Hu is Vanilla. Pay attention, please.
This could be scum disconnected from game. I got my eyes on you.

I just see disconnect and no real train of thought here. Just bouncing from one to the next. First I was scum. Then town. Then for some reasons Cele and me contain one scum.

[Hu Tao]

Yeah well not my best play i admit. I am bouncing between you and Cele bcz idk whom to trust. Nurse i believe town and i am inclined to listen to him. This whole situation is a mess. Yeah plus the fact that i kinda fell for your trap with "Cele softed protective". Either you are trying to discredit Cele or Cele is lying and is scum PR. But lol, why would scum PR oust themselves like this? With still so many people alive? More than likely scum is hiding in lurkers.
You lied, Hu Tao. Thats a fact. To get best info from this situation without mislimming potential important PR is to lim you. Or, pushing a lurkers.
It would be neat if some lurkers bothered to come here, tbh. I hate this mess and my thoughts are messed up.

Cele and I agree. So why are you making it Cele vs me?

[Hu Tao]

Yeah probably

[Hu Tao]

Fucking hell
I’m a gunsmith, stop this shit

VOTE: Hu Tao
A part of why I didn’t care for the claim was because of my role so now that it’s out there, I feel like we should go back there

Righteous theater?

[Hu Tao]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

They are still trying to confuse things by saying they protected Gamma when they didn't

. Where is the town motivation there?

I didn't see this happen, was I reading too fast?

No. People just weren't reading the game earlier

[Hu Tao]

In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).

This is the most based thing anyone has said this game.

People are scared to actually do reads on play vs what's 'mechanically correct'

[Hu Tao]

Celebloki is probably town. Hu Tao is almost certainly town. The only reason Gamma would, in her doomed moment, try to counterwagon onto a buddy (scum!HT), would be if Gamma herself had a scum PR and Hu Tao was a goon, or if Hu Tao was the strong PR and Gamma thought the wagon would not go through.

We know neither of these are the case because Gamma is a flipped Goon and we have Celebloki saying Hu Tao is vanilla, so unless you think Gamma, Hu Tao, and Celebloki are all scum together, you should not be voting Hu Tao.

If anyone does think that I'd like to know why they think HT and Celebloki are scum individually.

Good logic. You're better at articulating this than I am. Which is why I was saying naerys is scum for saying Cele vs me. Since that didn't make sense

[Hu Tao]

I'm fine with passing on naerys today though if you're really set on her as town.

[Hu Tao]

Is it bad to townread Kyoko for basically having the same opinions as me?

No I think Kyouko explained in a townier way than you tbf. Not that I think you're scum but I think I Town read her more

[Hu Tao]

Hmm

UNVOTE:

A lot of sense is being made regarding Hu. I'm not ready to give her a clear the rest of the game, but I can agree that she's not a good lim today. At the very least we know she's not a scum PR and so effort is probably best going elsewhere.

Welcome to the

dark

good side

[Hu Tao]

I absolutely love making fool of myself, ffs -.-
Meh, after i stop banging my head i´ll do some rereading

What is this in regard to?

It's the naerys thing where she's waffling based on whoever is talking at the moment. I still think she's sus but willing to overlook today

[Hu Tao]

Says she's made a fool of herself but not unvoted

[Hu Tao]

Is it bad to townread Kyoko for basically having the same opinions as me?

No I think Kyouko explained in a townier way than you tbf. Not that I think you're scum but I think I Town read her more

Damn. So more words and bigger posts = townier? Good to know.

[Hu Tao]

I'm not sure what to make of guillotine at the moment.

[Hu Tao]

Anyway I still think there is/was one scum on Hu Tao's wagon and since I TR everyone else (except Naerys who's just null town), I am going to VOTE: Roden

I guess he could be scum. Not sure

[Hu Tao]

Liars are dangerous and should always be eliminated, but that's a minority view that probably won't prevail.

[Hu Tao]

[Hu Tao]

I'd still prefer elements

[Hu Tao]

I think that's not the case

[Hu Tao]

Quoting 2044 without quote tags so my commentary doesn't appear inside a quote tag, but I'm commenting on these votes now.

Spoiler: quote collection

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

This seems a bit overly defensive. In a weird way, I could see this be teammate talk. But not too strong of a read right now

!!!!!

Calling it. I was right on this.

VOTE: Elements

Let's listen to me today

Gamma you've still got your rvs vote on me, why?

This seems a bit overly defensive. In a weird way, I could see this be teammate talk. But not too strong of a read right now

!!!!!

Calling it. I was right on this.

VOTE: Elements

Let's listen to me today

k

VOTE: Elements

I have no problem with these first two votes, I think both these players are pretty likely town here and I'm not pinged by either of these votes.

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

This upon rereading feels a little "flat" compared to how it should feel? town!Celebloki is supposed to think he has a mechanical guilty here, and this doesn't read like a guilty should to me. There's no excitement whatsoever.

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

I don't really love this reasoning - I think it's already pretty clear from yesterDay that Broccoli and Gamma are not partnered, but it's early in the Day and I don't think many people had re-read for associations yet. I'm giving this vote the benefit of my existing TR on Naerys and am looking elsewhere.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Once again this is NAI, but we are in D2 now and I'm starting to feel like Elements is maybe hiding behind their posting style.

Naerys it pains me to say this but I agree with Hu Tao that your read is rubbish.

Pedit: Gamma is a her btw.

Additionally, Elements you should probably unvote HT if you are town.

Yeah I should
UNVOTE:

I think if Elements had a scum motivation to be voting Hu Tao though that maybe they hold on a little harder than this? I believe I already noted they never go back to voting HT so tentatively I'm not seeing scum motivation. Hoping to see Elements step up a little more toDay though.

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's.

In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

I think i was hasty in believing Celebloki.
UNVOTE: Hu tao

This is again, a reasonable unvote. I didn't see scum motivation in getting onto the wagon and I don't see this as scum getting off when momentum slows down either

VOTE: Elements

Yeah, if two of my big townreads are on this I will offer my support!

Looking just at this vote I thought Keyleth ignored the guilty on Hu Tao but actually she just refutes it in 1778 saying that from the Gamma flip, HT is pretty likely town, same for Guillo and Celebloki. She attributes the reasoning to their votes on the Gamma flash wagon, so I'll want to look at Celebloki's later and see if I can see what Keyleth saw. I kinda like this because I think scum's plan coming in to toDay was to push Hu Tao (I think this might be the main reason Black was killed) and if Keyleth were scum I don't think she needs to put down her vote on a Hu Tao counterwagon. She barely voted at all yesterDay. The fact she barely voted yesterDay could indicate that as scum, this vote is meant to go against what the rest of the team is doing. Black did think Keyleth and I were scum together, and Gamma sheeped that reasoning. I think Gamma did the same in OMB - some towny, Smoke and Mirrors I believe, thought I was scum with one of Gamma's partners, Something_Smart I think it was. Gamma was like "yeah they could be scum together" and voted me. I think Gamma's idea in that scenario is that she can angle to lim me before her partner and when I flip town she can renege on SRing her partner, while at the same time if her scumpartner is limmed first, she can angle to mislim me afterward.

Overall I like Keyleth's vote here but it gives me actual deepwolf vibes and I'm unwilling to clear her from toDay's pool off that.

I’m in the middle of a deep dive of D1 so I’ll return with all my thoughts once I’ve fully caught up, which may take a few hours.

In the mean time, VOTE: Elements.

I'm not sure why Andres votes here, I'd have to assume he is either sheeping TRs or is sheeping Hu Tao's call that Gamma and Elements are partnered. Reminder to ask Andres in a separate post

So Hu lied about their claim

but it's cool because they are obv-town, Dunn can't understand Black's role and how it resulted in Gamma's death, Celeb soft-suggested a protective role and apparently crumbed some clues but now says they are an investigator and yet we are believing them as well even though they will explain itall tomorrow, does that sum things up?

Was there a hard-claim on this?

If so I DO want this slot resolved NOW.

At the beginning Hu claimed vanilla, later after being pushed claimed doctor, its somewhere in her iso. I would find it, but i need to go to work

If this is the case then I'd like to see this slot flip Day 2.

VOTE: Hu Tao

"

if so

I DO want this slot resolved NOW" and "

if this is the case

then I'd like to see this slot flip Day 2." - both of the bolded read as a little hedgey and overly justified to me. Like, if you don't know for sure, and you want to be sure, then check for yourself before you vote. I just feel like this vote really wants to look "correct", and RN wants people reading it to think the "correct" play is to lim Hu Tao. If I'm right about why Black died and that Hu Tao was the target coming in to toDay this is either very scumsiding town or just obvscum. I'm inclined to say RN is scumsiding for now due to Gamma interactions, but this is concerning in a town!HT world

Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Now Naerys is back to a possible Gamma, Hu Tao, Broccoli pairing I think, based on "Out of the 3" - she only mentions HT, Broccoli, and Celebloki in that post. I think if you think of what is more likely, based on the way Celebloki targeted last Night, that Celebloki is more likely scum that Hu Tao. I'd like to give him at least one more Night to make a better decision before considering limming him though.

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

At least one of these last 3 is scum and it's looking like Roden to me based on Dunn's claim and Guillo's associations to Gamma

Ok Ive caught up, now time to back read for Gamma's spew.

I forgot why I quoted this one but it feels like it was important

I see Hu Tao was E-2 as of last night, could we not rush this Day please?

gtmh the rest of the team is Celebloki, Roden, Keyleth

VOTE: Roden

Why would Cele out a VT claim as scum?

[Hu Tao]

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

And when do you estimate that will be? in real life time that is.

I finished last night. I don't think Elements is scum and would prefer Hu Tao over her. Elements feels too active and invested for me to think that this is her scum play. I don't necessarily think that she hates playing as scum, but I think she enjoys rolling town more.

Is the active and invested Elements in the room with us?

[Hu Tao]

Elements feels too active and invested

This is such a wild take

[Hu Tao]

I feel it's the same few people talking. Maybe some people are coasting?