Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[Upwards]

Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.

Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.

I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.

That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

GL,HF

[Upwards]

Right on so far ! As it seems you've played way more ToS (may i ask if it was on the forums or the actual game?) i'd say mostly that in terms of roles, you need to expect half the town to not have any powers, scum huting is therefore way less reliant on mechanical data and more like, actually reading people, take all i say with a grain of salt obviously, but try to focus on seeing the intent / mindset / agenda behind what people are saying, should be a good start

I played it on my phone app, didn’t even know ToS forums existed until just now. I assume the main difference are the time intervals as well then? From what I’m used Town usually did what the loudest, most confident players recommended, no matter the flaws under the shining surface of their logical reasoning. Less time pressure should mean more focus on that logic aspect, which I appreciate and am looking forward to.

Not sure what to make of ScumHunting being mostly based on reading people.It’s gotta be a lot of fun, but appears a little bit difficult to get started without any mechanical hints. Alas, I shall try my best to form some leans.

Another broken quote fixed

[Upwards]

wtf happened with the formatting lol?

[Upwards]

Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.

Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.

I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.

That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

GL,HF

VOTE: upward

This seems a bit forced for me.

Why is it scum instead of just newb?

Could be. But I feel new people are not as likely to have a scripted opening like that.

Wow, I absolutely love it. Like, unironically it made me laugh. Very first post on this site and I get to hear my opening is scripted. Fun Fact: It’s not. It’s just the story of how I came here in the first place, cuz with what else to start? "Hi" was already taken you know. But you’re right, I obviously had some idea of what I wanted to put in there.

Also am I misunderstanding something or are you saying I am not new? I literally had no account just a couple days ago…

Anyways, with this Hu Tao officially comes into my Slightly Town leaning order. I think Mafia would feel silly making such an argument and from what I’ve seen so far she’s on track to become a guiding light. I like Posts 96,97, and 113 simply because it mirrors what I’ve seen from trusted townies in the game I’ve read. This seems to be the way to go. Alternatively she’s a pretty good Scum player.

[Upwards]

Upwards has the tryhard poat that feels nai from a newbie.

I’m afraid I don’t understand, what does "poat" and "nai" mean? ( English is not my native language )

[Upwards]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

[Upwards]

Anyways here's a recap about what i think of everyone, not sure that's too useful but whatever

Spoiler: ooo

Upwards

Classic newbie slot, i feel like they're still quite likely to be scum? Obviously their reasoning is always gonna be somewhat rough, but there's an air of it being fabricated? Him stating his entry paragraph was motivated by worrying of being unoriginal makes me think it leans scum for instance

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t really worrying, it was more me being excited to finally start. Hypothetically speaking, which upside would I have as Scum to open like this? To put anything out there right away that people might feel strange about? None that would come to my mind at least.

E: fixen broken formatting (N.B.: the [/

quote] tag used to be missing)

[Upwards]

ffs I fear I’ll need the broken Quote Fixing once again I’m sorry

[Upwards]

Anyways here's a recap about what i think of everyone, not sure that's too useful but whatever

Spoiler: ooo

Upwards

Classic newbie slot, i feel like they're still quite likely to be scum? Obviously their reasoning is always gonna be somewhat rough, but there's an air of it being fabricated? Him stating his entry paragraph was motivated by worrying of being unoriginal makes me think it leans scum for instance

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t really worrying, it was more me being excited to finally start. Hypothetically speaking, which upside would I have as Scum to open like this? To put anything out there right away that people might feel strange about? None that would come to my mind at least.

While i get the excitement, i feel that as town you would be less focused on if what you wished to say would come out good as since you're town, it should naturally be towny

Yes! Exactly my thinking, it shouldn’t come across this suspicious to you and yet I’ve been told otherwise which strikes me as strange. Will try to make my mind up about this situation when I have more time later today, as well as hopefully getting to write something about most players in this.

E: added missing [/

quote]

[Upwards]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

Ah, now I get where you’re coming from. See, just because I’m new doesn’t mean I can’t differentiate between someone being nice and someone making sense. So at that point I was less worried about getting tricked than about understanding how to proceed, since when I started posting there was very little I could conclude from the previous content. Think I have a better grasp now.

But while I’m familiar with the term buddying, what’s elimbait?

[Upwards]

I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for

@91

.

Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.

Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:

So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.

I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.

Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.

The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.

Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.

Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.

My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.

Actually I can see it funnily enough, especially with that last paragraph being potentially usable as a setup to justify changing course in the future. Thing is, town might just as well make this post and I have it on good sources that I am not the buddy of anyone.

[Upwards]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

[Upwards]

So here are my initial thoughts after reading ISOs.

Lucca

- I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. "Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post." Upwards didn't say that he read a 100 person game, just that he heard about it. So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it.

Nah, I did say that I read it. ( Although skimmed would have been a more fitting word tbh ) So the premise here isn’t accurate.

I still agree with the notion that there should be more interesting stuff to talk about though…

[Upwards]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

[Upwards]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chases

Yeah okay but if you’re scum why play for eventually getting flipped? It actively makes it harder to fulfill Mafias Win Con.

This looks to me like a dubious exchange at best. So nothing I’d reasonably expect from a player like you who has claimed to have played a ton of games.

In other words, I don’t believe you here.

Therefore

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Upwards]

Okay here we go.

I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.

On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.

I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.

this is surface level analysis
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.

I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.

So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.

So what do you make of that?

I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chases

Yeah okay but if you’re scum why play for eventually getting flipped? It actively makes it harder to fulfill Mafias Win Con.

This looks to me like a dubious exchange at best. So nothing I’d reasonably expect from a player like you who has claimed to have played a ton of games.

In other words, I don’t believe you here.

Therefore

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

You don’t understand high-level play if you think getting flipped as scum can’t be a wincon-advancing move.

The second part just looks vague and trite. Calling it a “dubious exchange” with zero backing thought process is unhelpful. And I don’t see how my games played has to do with what you’re saying because

you’re basically saying nothing

.

I’m saying nothing? I shall elaborate then:

Getting flipped as scum inherently hurts your win Con since it’s literally dependent on the number of Scum left alive. All for the potential upside of chaos. But chaos in itself isn’t useful if you fail to then abuse it properly. While the downside of having lost a player remains a cold, hard fact.

Just a simple Risk/Reward question. It’s basically the equivalent of a dubious sacrifice in chess. Now you have to proof compensation somewhere down the line, while there would have been more solid routes available. And in general players will play more solid the more experience they get.

All just very basic reasoning in my mind. So I’m not sure if you don’t understand me or if it’s that you do not want to understand me.

[Upwards]

I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma

This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)

I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t land

I don't agree with the post. But I can see how and why she came to that conclusion so that makes it a great post.

I can’t help but find it interesting how Naerys calls Gamma and Hu Tao buddies only for both to swiftly townread her for it. Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?

[Upwards]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I’m having a Deja vu

I’d like to understand your motivation here. Is it the same play you explained in 347?

Personally I’m still suspicious of Gamma but assuming both you and Delta are not bluffing that means we let RNG decide what happens if Gamma gets to E-1? There’s no way to tell who will randomly be on their phone in that moment should it happen.

[Upwards]

Why are you afraid to lim a scum read?

No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.

What’s your stance on this though?

[Upwards]

Why are you afraid to lim a scum read?

No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.

What’s your stance on this though?

Thinking about it it becomes even more complex since there’s no way to know if it was real RNG. Either side could just delay doing their part while being perfectly aware of E-1 to see if the other side acts eventually. And then claim RNG anyways. Just looks like a mess to me.

But an interesting mess at least.

[Upwards]

No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.

What’s your stance on this though?

You have it exactly backwards. With a lim now, people ARE responsible for their votes. There's no random chance involved.

When you let the game go down to the deadline, that's when people can say

Well I'm not really sure about this but we need a flip

and duck responsibility.

I mean I get your point regarding the deadline that’s a fine argument but I don’t think you understood my line of thinking in this case. What do you make of the fact that Delta is currently voting Gamma but vows to back down should it come to E-1 while Hu Tao does the opposite with not voting but vowing to do so should it come to E-1? For me it blurrs the line of who can be held responsible since they’re both saying one thing but currently doing the other.

[Upwards]

If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering

I’m having a Deja vu

I’d like to understand your motivation here. Is it the same play you explained in 347?

Personally I’m still suspicious of Gamma but assuming both you and Delta are not bluffing that means we let RNG decide what happens if Gamma gets to E-1? There’s no way to tell who will randomly be on their phone in that moment should it happen.

Why does this scare you if you sus them?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d feel the same would I read her as town atm. It’s the concept I’m questioning behind this.

[Upwards]

I mean I get your point regarding the deadline that’s a fine argument but I don’t think you understood my line of thinking in this case. What do you make of the fact that Delta is currently voting Gamma but vows to back down should it come to E-1 while Hu Tao does the opposite with not voting but vowing to do so should it come to E-1? For me it blurrs the line of who can be held responsible since they’re both saying one thing but currently doing the other.

First, please get an avatar, it makes it easier for others to read the game.

From what I've seen, both playing and looking back, there's some bad site meta that comes into play here. On the face of it Delta pings me for the comment, BUT there seems to be a lot of people on this site who think you pretty much always have to go down to deadline in order to generate more info, so that's a mitigating factor.

With Hu Tao, you can have more than one scum read, so no problem voting one person but saying you'll vote another. Also there's site meta that a quickhammer is scummy, so announcing before the fact could be a CYA move. OTOH, in the scenario that gamma and Hu are scum together, Hu's announcement could be a way to avoid gamma's lim while maintaining distancing. I don't see that scenario as highly likely right now, but it's possible.

Regarding quickhammers in general, there's a time and place for them. Here's a game where I, as town, quickhammered scum:
viewtopic.php?p=14023291#p14023291

In this game, we had scum (including gamma in a hydra) at E-1 on D1:
viewtopic.php?p=14010270#p14010270

But then a townie dropped off because so many people here chant the more info mantra:
viewtopic.php?p=14010285&f=51&t=91997&u ... #p14010285

It can be really difficult to get a failed scum wagon back on track. What frequently happens, and what happened in that case, was we went on to lim a low activity townie.

I already tried to make an avatar but it said the picture is too large to everything I tried. Actually would appreciate some help in that regard.

Coming back to the game: I don’t understand the "CYA move" terminology and feel like I might misinterpret your point without it. Would it be fair to say that you’d support Hu Tao quickhammering Gamma if it comes to that?

Also that still doesn’t really answer my concerns with the ( Pseudo- ) Rng involved. But seeing like I seem to be the only one being irritated by that I must assume this situation is nothing unordinary.

[Upwards]

I already tried to make an avatar but it said the picture is too large to everything I tried. Actually would appreciate some help in that regard.

I save the pic, open it in paint or something, resize, resave, then upload.

Coming back to the game: I don’t understand the "CYA move" terminology and feel like I might misinterpret your point without it.

"Cover Your Ass." I.e. Hu may be putting the warning up to reduce the possibility of a charge against her tomorrow.

Another possibility is that she announces it to judge reactions: does anyone drop off? Does someone quickly jump on the wagon?

Would it be fair to say that you’d support Hu Tao quickhammering Gamma if it comes to that?

Yes. I think there's a good possibility that gamma is scum. This is a closed setup, so there's no way to verify a PR claim if she made one. She's posted a lot and interacted with a lot of players, so there's good info to be obtained. I don't see a downside to it.

Also that still doesn’t really answer my concerns with the ( Pseudo- ) Rng involved. But seeing like I seem to be the only one being irritated by that I must assume this situation is nothing unordinary.

I don't see that there's RNG (pseudo or otherwise) involved. If you're not ready for a gamma flip you're free to remove your vote. Just be prepared to be held accountable for that if she does flip red down the road.

I see. My point with the RNG is that both claimed to do a thing at the same point X in the future but there’s no way to hold them accountable to that claim since they’re directly contradicting each other and can always just blame the other.

Anyways, my vote on Gamma was a conscious decision that I stand by since I have seen nothing to suggest that my logic doesn’t hold. In my eyes she’s the most suspicious so far and I’m prepared to be held accountable for that.

[Upwards]

Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?

I have some nagging feeling like these 2 are working together.Kinda feels like Hu Tao throws a ball and Gamma determines the direction it should go.
Eh, i really dont know how to put it to words

So what do you make of Hu Tao saying she’d eliminate Gamma at E-1? Think it’s a bluff?

[Upwards]

Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?

I have some nagging feeling like these 2 are working together.Kinda feels like Hu Tao throws a ball and Gamma determines the direction it should go.
Eh, i really dont know how to put it to words

So what do you make of Hu Tao saying she’d eliminate Gamma at E-1? Think it’s a bluff?

I thought Hu said she would hammer Margot, not Gamma.

Both is correct, In 170 she stated she would quickhammer Margot and in 461 she stated she would quickhammer Gamma.

[Upwards]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

[Upwards]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

[Upwards]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

My Elo? Hahaha I don’t have any. I just play it rarely and extremely casually. I’m out of book on move 2. Which doesn’t matter though since my opponents are usually out of book move 1. The reason that I’m somewhat familiar with the concepts I mentioned is that I watched a couple chess games from the WM and the commentary was incredibly informative. No comparison to football or the like.

I’d be interested in knowing why you wanted to know this.

That said, I’m a bit disappointed to hear that it’s really just pity. I had hoped there would have been a better explanation.

[Upwards]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

Well first of all, I find it a bit irritating that he promised to effortpost "later" and then people jump at him for later being too late. The nature of this game being played 24/7 throughout ones everyday life means there can be very good reasons for a delay. By all means I support not letting players surf through completely unquestioned but in this case I’m a bit surprised by what happened so suddenly.

I think it’s weird that he’s not voting Gamma when he was part of what made me suspicious of her. Can understand the Hu Tao Town read relative to his 232 though I guess? Idk, would need to look more into this.

[Upwards]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question about

my chess ELO

?

That question was for me was it not? I feel like there’s too much upset confusion and too little real logic going on atm.

[Upwards]

@373

is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.

@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.

For starters, the end of day 1 suggested to me that both Delta and Hu Tao are not very trustworthy since they both walked back on their word regarding Gammas E-1. Then again, I seem to have been the only one giving any credit to such claims so perhaps that’s a normal thing to do on this site here, I wouldn’t know.

With Gamma flipping town I could see scum being on that wagon, will look more into that when I find the time. Still think my reasoning back then wasn’t necessarily wrong, but apparently I have overestimated how scummy the early townblock and Gammas strange 323 really was.

Regarding Margots 373:

Think that looks good for Zebedee who she pretended to be suspicious of. On the other hand she claimed to lean town on Gypyx and you, which makes me suspicious. However Gamma being there as well mitigates that a bit.

[Upwards]

but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote

check this out

Upwards

A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.

What are you doing here?

I didn’t interact with Margot, true. I also didn’t interact much with quite some other players tbh. Those that read me as null or not at all, mostly. Since that didn’t look too interesting.

I ignored the Margot wagon, true. Simply because I didn’t see much reason behind it.

I made Gamma a viable counter wagon… That’s not even really the truth is it? If you look back, what I just did, you’ll see that Margot had even 5 votes at page 7 and it took 6 more pages until I voted Gamma. I argued my case, true, but it was hardly me rushing to Margots aid. As evident by it taking 20 more pages until Gamma of all people voted Gamma to eliminate Gamma.

I’m not sure what Margots intention was when she put me in the "null-scum-slot". If that’s really the classic partner slot as you put it, that seems like the last slot I would put my buddies in as scum. Why do exactly what town expects?

[Upwards]

As with my might power, i bless Hu Tao with conftown status.

HEAL: Hu Tao

I’m confused, what does this mean?

[Upwards]

Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.

[Upwards]

@373

is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.

@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.

For starters, the end of day 1 suggested to me that both Delta and Hu Tao are not very trustworthy since they both walked back on their word regarding Gammas E-1. Then again, I seem to have been the only one giving any credit to such claims so perhaps that’s a normal thing to do on this site here, I wouldn’t know.

With Gamma flipping town I could see scum being on that wagon, will look more into that when I find the time.

Ok seeing as Hu Taos actions were weird but essentially lead to a townie surviving longer, I think that makes Delta the main suspect here since she not only lied but also was part of the wagon. It is a bit weird that she joined it late but not leaving it although claiming to do so appears opportunistic.

Going over her posts again I remembered how her 264 was factually wrong as well. Didn’t think much of that at the time since I was pretty bored with the topic of my opening but in hindsight it appears suspicious to try to score points like that.

Then shortly before Gammas elimination there’s this whole discussion with Margot that seemed to come completely out of nowhere. Now that Margot flipped scum it almost looks fabricated to me.

Gotta go now playing soccer, but I’ll revisit this train of thoughts tomorrow.

[Upwards]

Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.

So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisness

You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?

[Upwards]

but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote

check this out

Upwards

A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.

What are you doing here?

I didn’t interact with Margot, true. I also didn’t interact much with quite some other players tbh. Those that read me as null or not at all, mostly. Since that didn’t look too interesting.

I ignored the Margot wagon, true. Simply because I didn’t see much reason behind it.

I made Gamma a viable counter wagon… That’s not even really the truth is it? If you look back, what I just did, you’ll see that Margot had even 5 votes at page 7 and it took 6 more pages until I voted Gamma. I argued my case, true, but it was hardly me rushing to Margots aid. As evident by it taking 20 more pages until Gamma of all people voted Gamma to eliminate Gamma.

I’m not sure what Margots intention was when she put me in the "null-scum-slot". If that’s really the classic partner slot as you put it, that seems like the last slot I would put my buddies in as scum. Why do exactly what town expects?

Not interacting with other players? That's OK. I don't think I've had a thought about Naerys and Alianna on the last 30 pages. But not giving your opinion/interacting with the player who was, for at least 40% of D1, the leading wagon? That's not natural.

Yes, you made Gamma into a viable counter wagon. It happened on page 14.

This was the votecount at the end of page 13.

Votecount

MargotRosa

(4):

Gypyx, Laplacian,

FuDuzn

,

Hu Tao

lucca261

(1):

DeltaWave

Upwards

(1):

lucca261

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Alianna

Alianna

(1):

Naerys

Claptastik

(1):

Gamma Emerald

FuDuzn

(1):

MargotRosa

NOT VOTING:

Upwards, Zeb, Clap

The progression was:

• Delta
  gives me my second vote.
  Margot
  has three votes, all unknown.
  Lucca
  has two votes, one of them being
  FuDuzn
  .
  
• FuDuzn
  switches from
  Lucca
  to
  Margot
  , putting her at E-3.
  
• Clap
  immediately unvotes
  Margot
  .
  
• Hu Tao
  votes
  Margot
  , putting her back at E-3.
  
• Alianna
  is being replaced. We did not know that at the time, but it would turn the
  Gamma Emerald
  RVS vote into a game-determinative vote.

On 325, Clap votes Gamma and starts the tunnel of death that would lead to the eventual elim. At this point, it's basically only one vote on Gamma, given that the only other vote on Gamma is Alianna on RVS. There's no guarantee that the replacement will keep voting Gamma.
Guess who makes the wagon feel heavier and puts the third/second vote onto Gamma on a moment in which Margot is at E-3? @333. All while stating no opinion on Margot and her wagon. Naerys does the same on @338, but as you know, she's town.

Your vote is basically what turns the Gamma wagon from Clap usual throwing votes around and switching them to a real possible lim.

Lucca, consider this please: You say it’s sus that I voted for Gamma at a point when Margot already was a wagon. But Margot was a wagon basically right from the start of the game, for whatever reason. So does that mean I don’t get to suspect other players than her anymore? If I see a case for Margot, I will make that case. If I see a case for another player, I will make that case, simple as that.

So in this case I saw a case for Gamma when her comment about how she’d play scum in response to me questioning her about the early townblock appeared untrustworthy to me. Not sooner, not later.

[Upwards]

just pinging you.

It's buried in my 838 so in case you don't read it I want your answer to this:

91 - I'll tell you my role. It is to RULE with the People's Elbow and rock-hard abs as I rock, sock, and rumble the scum out of the ring.

Do you like being the tiny mafia or do you prefer to DOMINATE the arena in TOS?

My favorite role in ToS is, by far, Jester, followed by Survivor and Executioner. I don’t really like other 3rd parties but those three have hilarious outplay potential in my mind, even if not many will agree with me rating Surv so high.

But I take it your question is more about Town vs Mafia. And I gotta say, it’s dependent on my mood that day. Sometimes I just wanna chill and play a solid town game and other times I’m excited to claim Jailor d1 as Mafioso to try and completely run the town. Then there are roles like Veteran and actual Jailor who’re pretty much always fun no matter what.

What I don’t like are useless Town roles like Sheriff ( way too easy to counterclaim ) or Medium ( most players dc instantly after dying ). As Mafia I don’t really care about the specific role since most of them are pretty garbage and it’s more about how you act in the day anyways.

Why would you ask?

[Upwards]

Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.

So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisness

You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?

Sorry i phrased that pretty badly, my main point was that non serious communication in itself isn't really alignement indicative here, mostly due to like, how big of a time frame we have to figure things out, it's not like ToS where time is very much a constraint

I see, good point.

So in that case I have a question for you Gypyx: What’s your stance on Pizza with Pineapple?

[Upwards]

Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.

So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisness

You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?

Sorry i phrased that pretty badly, my main point was that non serious communication in itself isn't really alignement indicative here, mostly due to like, how big of a time frame we have to figure things out, it's not like ToS where time is very much a constraint

I see, good point.

So in that case I have a question for you Gypyx: What’s your stance on Pizza with Pineapple?

Actually i have a strong opinion on that lol

most people who claim to hate pizza with pineapple only hate it cause the internet says so, this is one of the biggest nonesense debates of our modern age and i'm willing to bet a wide majority of pineapple pizza haters / lovers never tasted a single slice

anyways personally i dislike it but only cause pineapple on it's own tastes bad to me

So, are you trying to mimick my posting style or what's is going on here

Wow that is relatable.

As to what is going on, honestly I’m not quite sure. Reading your 934 that absolute meme of a question just popped up in my brain and I just couldn’t bring myself not to ask it, even though it is pretty pointless.

[Upwards]

Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things

UNVOTE:

I'm rereading my ISO and zebedee/PoP to answer DW, and my Laplacian vote basically boils down to a couple of bad vibes and him being in the middle of the nulls on MR's list. Kinda arbitrary and WEAK - I managed to CONFIRMATIONALLY BIAS myself into voting Lap.

Now this makes for a read I’m pretty certain of: Gypyx and Mucho Man are very unlikely to be buddies after this.

[Upwards]

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.

Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.

2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.

Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.

The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.

I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.

Point number 1 is complete NONSENSE. The way you describe the posts you linked I would expect to find that Uppercutwards was fighting against the Gamma lim given the tone of FRUSTRATION you say CLEARLY exists. He does not look frustrated by the situation AT ALL. He is in fact, feeling quite JUSTIFIED in throwing Gamma from the ring. He emphasizes that HE will ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and he shades Hu Tao and Delta Wave alike, casting doubt upon which of them would be responsible if Gamma were E-1ed. If he truly cared, he would have FOUGHT to get to the bottom of this.
VOTE: Uppercutwards

This looks to me like it’s made in really bad faith, Mucho Man. I brought up my point about Delta and Hu Tao again and again, but it got ignored almost completely. And why the hell should I fight against the Gamma lim when I was suspecting her at that time?

[Upwards]

a little too tired to talk about this right now, so I'll just say that I read @986 and my first thought is:

@Upwards, somehow in my 10 re-reads of late D1 I've missed that @580 was a question for me. Didn't intentionally ignore you, sorry. Do you still want an answer?

It’s interesting you’d say that, because you quoted my 580 in your 591 and answered… half of it. The half nothing to do with the E-1, to be exact.

In fact I even thought about bringing this up as prime example in my 1005 reply to Mucho Man. Just decided not to do that in order to not give her ( an excuse to get, perhaps ) the wrong impression that I’m trying to distract from myself here.

I believe there would be merit in uncovering what Delta and Hu Tao were trying to do back then, so yes, better late than never, I’d appreciate your thoughts Lucca.

[Upwards]

VOTE: Upwards
meanwhile putting pressure on this slot

Pressure, yes…

May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though. You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1 and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.

The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about.

[Upwards]

Votecount 1.03

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).

Votecount

MargotRosa (5):

Claptastik, Gypyx, Gamma Emerald, Laplacian, FuDuzn

Upwards (2):

lucca261, Hu Tao

Gamma Emerald (1):

Alianna

Alianna (1):

Naerys

Not Voting (4):

Upwards, Zebedee, DeltaWave, MargotRosa

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to send someone on the fast route to the afterlife.

flavor

Dragon Fact #4:

While often depicted as cruel and beastly monsters, dragons are actually highly intelligent, and have a better grasp on science than most humans. In fact, dragons invented modern computers!

Upwards why didnt u vote Margot here? What was your read on her through D1?

I had no read on her, otherwise I would have shared it. I did so in 121 and then 273 for some players that I actually was forming an opinion on at that point, but you’ll notice it’s far from the full read list more experienced players were able to post.

That’s also the reason why I didn’t vote her, plain and simple.

In hindsight I can say that her behavior shortly before the Gamma elimination was strange, starting a huge discussion with Delta pretending to try to save Gamma, a player she knew was her opponent, while interacting comparably little with Hu Tao who I saw as the other piece of the puzzle in that situation. As I said in my 828, that looks like an potential avenue to explore for me and I would be interested in hearing an opinion from Delta and Hu Tao on it.

Back then though, I didn’t think any of that.

[Upwards]

Everything PoP is posting screams town to me.
Even excluding the topic of myself his view of Enchant sounds reasonable and I second his 1032.

Combined with Margot having his slot as Scum Lean that leaves me with the Prince of Paterson as my most solid town read at this point.

[Upwards]

Want to see Enchant to react to his 1031 though.

[Upwards]

the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind

If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.

In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?

[Upwards]

VOTE: Upwards
meanwhile putting pressure on this slot

Pressure, yes…

May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though.

You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1

and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.

The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about.

If you insist.
VOTE: Upwards

E-1. You talk about answering questions about day 1 and day 2. How about night 1? Got a claim?

Upward should probably claim though

That’s because there was literally nothing to do for me n1. I’m a Vanilla Townie.

Feel free to ask whatever you want about n1 as well though.

[Upwards]

In hindsight I can say that her behavior shortly before the Gamma elimination was strange, starting a huge discussion with Delta pretending to try to save Gamma, a player she knew was her opponent, while interacting comparably little with Hu Tao who I saw as the other piece of the puzzle in that situation. As I said in my 828, that looks like an potential avenue to explore for me and I would be interested in hearing an opinion from Delta and Hu Tao on it.

Back then though, I didn’t think any of that.

It's clear from the end-of-day events on D1 that Margot knew Gamma was going to flip town and was trying to collect townpoints by vehemently opposing a mis-elim. The fact is (and truly no offense to Gamma) is that Gamma did a bunch of scummy things despite being town and got eliminated for it. But Margot's apparent certainty about Gamma's flip sounded very much like she was trying to go into D2 looking spotless by opposing the wagon.

That being said, the timing of your vote really did look like it was trying to distract from the Margot wagon.

I am still way behind since I just got home but my limpool right now is pretty much just Upwards and PoP. I do want to take a look at Enchant because I also felt that Enchant's vote against Mucho was weird.

Here’s Delta again with a first paragraph that sounds very agreeable but isn’t really saying much behind what is completely obvious. I’m beginning to understand some of the critic from earlier in the game.

Delta, I’m not wondering about Margots role here. That’s solved. I’m wondering about Hu and You. And in your case, you asked Margot back then why she wants to defend Gamma so badly but, if I haven’t missed anything, you never gave any read other than "Null" on her. In 695 and 706 the argument devolves in total fluff, and from where I stand, that’s still questionable, especially with a player on the verge of being eliminated, even if Gypyx might disagree.

Then you dare say the timing of my vote was looking like a distraction, while you hopped onto the same wagon later with a very strange statement.

And now you come and claim your limpool is just me and the guy who spoke up for me. Marvelous. Could you elaborate on the "Why" please?

[Upwards]

the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind

If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.

In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?

Hu Tao i read as scum but i feel like they don't make much sense as a mafia member in terms of the game event so i'm holding on to it

Delta is probably the slots i have the least thoughts about but i trust they're town

what about you?

It should come as no surprise when I say that I have my suspicions about both of them currently. Delta even more than Hu Tao.

They’re not the only ones though. I’m still waiting on an actual argument for Mucho Mans vote for me and when I looked back over Gammas Elimination I found Margots 731 about the Enchant slot interesting, still have to make up my mind about how to read that though.

[Upwards]

the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind

If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.

In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?

Hu Tao i read as scum but i feel like they don't make much sense as a mafia member in terms of the game event so i'm holding on to it

Delta is probably the slots i have the least thoughts about but i trust they're town

what about you?

It should come as no surprise when I say that I have my suspicions about both of them currently. Delta even more than Hu Tao.

They’re not the only ones though. I’m still waiting on an actual argument for Mucho Mans vote for me and when I looked back over Gammas Elimination I found Margots 731 about the Enchant slot interesting, still have to make up my mind about how to read that though.

that's a lot of SR's lol, you might wanna thin a bit the list of who you wanna go for

btw when reffering to individual posts, it is good practice to use the "post" tags[post=*number of the post you wanna link*]text that will show the link[/post]

I can see your point, but, like, what can I do?

Delta and Hu Tao decided to say one thing and do the other, Mucho Man argued in what appeared like really bad faith to me, and Enchant is just acting super strange. I can not not be suspicious of them at this point.

Also thanks for telling me how to link posts. I can’t believe we’re over 1000 posts deep and I’ve not heard of it until now.


Test 731

[Upwards]

Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?

[Upwards]

Also Alianna slot can be either LHF or scum. I dont mind sorting Alianna first, but then we should look at Upwards.

What is LHF?

[Upwards]

Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?

First, this is a social, hidden-information, 13 player, asymmetric game. A comparison to an entirely mechanical, open-information, 2 player, symmetric game will always be flawed.

Second, dubious sacrifice generally implies that the sacrifice is bad; if it was good you'd call it a sound sacrifice. However, sacrificing a scum buddy can definitely pay off if you get enough hard allies. Since the game is social, a bluff is way more powerful here than in chess where you can rigorously analyze some lines to check if a sacrifice actually pays off. If I had to make a chess comparison, hardbussing a scum buddy for clout early would be the Halloween Gambit - where you sac a knight move 4 for crazy strategic presence unless the opponents play perfectly.

And I'm about 1500. Not amazing by any means, but enough that the chess comparison pinged me.

Ok this is an actually good explanation but doesn’t "dubios" come from "doubt"? I figured it means it’s very unclear and probably unlikely to be a good play but not outright impossible.

[Upwards]

VOTE: Enchant
green Enchant - look at Upwards, Prince of Paterson
Red Enchant - look at lucca - sat at Upwards basically whole D1, only at the end switche dto Laplacian

How do I read this post?

[Upwards]

Alright, thank you.

What I’d like to see now is:

An explanation from Hu Tao about Gamma E-1

A reply from Comical to my 1005

A reply from Enchant to PoPs 1031.

A reply from Delta to my 1047

[Upwards]

I've already explained that. I asked Margot why she wanted to defend GE so badly because Margot seemed convinced 100% that GE would flip town. That was a very sus level of certainty on D1. Of course, that's because Margot knew exactly how GE was going to flip. If Margot wasn't vigged I would have come out of the gate on D2 with this.

The remaining scum are PoP and Upwards as far as I'm concerned. Enchant may be scum but I can't tell because of how they're playing. It's a decent elim from a policy perspective but if you want to catch scum you need to vote PoP or Upwards.

So in that case shouldn’t you have dropped your Gamma vote like you had announced previously?

And I ask again, Why are me and PoP Scum and why would Enchant be a decent elim if you’re so sure of that?

[Upwards]

I am side of good.

I just don't care to lick your shoes, as i am nor your servant. You also shouldn't lick my shoes, but i won't stop you.

That’s funny, but also nonsense. How about a real reply?

[Upwards]

Alright, thank you.

What I’d like to see now is:

An explanation from Hu Tao about Gamma E-1

A reply from Comical to my 1005

A reply from Enchant to PoPs 1031.

A reply from Delta to my 1047

What about E-1?

A summary of why you played that situation the way you did would be nice.

[Upwards]

I want to give him a chance to stop acting and start playing

[Upwards]

Alright, thank you.

What I’d like to see now is:

An explanation from Hu Tao about Gamma E-1

A reply from Comical to my 1005

A reply from Enchant to PoPs 1031.

A reply from Delta to my 1047

What about E-1?

A summary of why you played that situation the way you did would be nice.

Because I wanted to see reactions of everyone and how gamma would react in that situation.

Do I understand it correctly that you never really planned to hammer then? Or alternatively at what point did you change your mind?

[Upwards]

I want to give him a chance to stop acting and start playing

Asking space, and space delivered: Even if i stop, it won't change future.

My wisdom is shared, you know my suspects. You just know you don't want me to be here, and there's nothing helping that. Otherwise, someone would try to ask for explanations of suspicions.

Truthfully, your cope is that by blaming my way of game, you feel less guilty for mistakes. Which is not case. You still make yourself more likely to lose.

Maybe problem in you?


If you need example, as i declared Hu Tao conftown, vegehead asked meaning of that, then declared as someone else answered first, it makes me villain.

That's nonsense and i refuse to approach those who judge me unfairly, without justice and then claim it's my guilt.


So be it.

Try to defeat me, mortals.

Do you have ChatGTP writing this or what is going on?

Also for your info, it was me asking first what you healing Hu Tao is supposed to mean, but Laplacian who gave you scumpoints for not answering by yourself. And now you argue because of him you won’t answer my question?

So I’ll give you one last chance. Answer in an understandable way, and while you’re at it, you’re more than welcome to explain your Scumreads.

Otherwise I will vote you. And rest assured, I am not the type to bluff.

[Upwards]

First glance, Upwards is a baddie and def not the good kind

Right, that’s where Mucho Man left. I’m still waiting for an explanation of his accusations against me though.

[Upwards]

First glance, Upwards is a baddie and def not the good kind

Right, that’s where Mucho Man left. I’m still waiting for an explanation of his accusations against me though.

Feels like you’re setting yourself up for disappointment

He ain’t allowed to post here anymore

I was hoping you as her replacement could take on that challenge, seeing as you apparently intend to follow her reads.

[Upwards]

And now you argue because of him you won’t answer my question?

What is your question?

What do you make of 1031?

[Upwards]

And now you argue because of him you won’t answer my question?

What is your question?

What do you make of 1031?

Meta is unreliable. But yes, these my previous games.

Now that’s a start at least. But in what way unreliable? Do you acknowledge a difference between your Town and Scum gameplay in there and argue that it can’t be used for reference in future games, or is your argument that there’s no meaningful difference to begin with?

[Upwards]

I want to give him a chance to stop acting and start playing

How much time were you going to give them?

Primarily it wasn’t about time for me, it was about what his next post would look like.

[Upwards]

Feels like the MACHO MAN snapped into your slim Jim, ooooh yeeeeaaah

I can’t speak for the macho man

Ok then, please just let me hear your own thoughts on 1005.

[Upwards]

And now you argue because of him you won’t answer my question?

What is your question?

What do you make of 1031?

Meta is unreliable. But yes, these my previous games.

Now that’s a start at least. But in what way unreliable? Do you acknowledge a difference between your Town and Scum gameplay in there and argue that it can’t be used for reference in future games, or is your argument that there’s no meaningful difference to begin with?

There's Town games which can be compared with Mafia ones. Ultimately, only thing are changed is my starting knowledge.

If i knew about difference, i will eliminate it or defy it.

So the latter, yes?

[Upwards]

I've already explained that. I asked Margot why she wanted to defend GE so badly because Margot seemed convinced 100% that GE would flip town. That was a very sus level of certainty on D1. Of course, that's because Margot knew exactly how GE was going to flip. If Margot wasn't vigged I would have come out of the gate on D2 with this.

So in that case shouldn’t you have dropped your Gamma vote like you had announced previously?

I have explained this multiple times. I don't know why I keep having to explain it, especially to you. However, I am going to explain it one last time. A lot of time passed between those two posts and the inactives got active. Because Hu withdrew his intention to quickhammer, I didn't think Gamma was in any immediate risk of being hammered and I wanted to put pressure on her. I did not expect Gamma to self-hammer and anyone who says they expect that is lying to themselves.

Sure, Gammas Selfvote was a surprise, but isn’t the whole point of E-1 that anyone could hammer at any time? Because otherwise, where would that pressure even come from?

[Upwards]

Also feels like Upwards fake, amirite

I said fake fake fakity fake

Fake fake fakity fake

Feels like the MACHO MAN snapped into your slim Jim, ooooh yeeeeaaah

I can’t speak for the macho man

Ok then, please just let me hear your own thoughts on 1005.

I think your gamma vote specifically and how it came about was townie.

After i saw the rest of your gameplay, and how you’re still learning the forum mafia style like this, and i kinda felt like you vibe check voted Gamma.

I also agree with pings on Hu Tao/Delta, i don’t really have concrete for Hu Tao.

Ok now where’s this complete 180 coming from? Also I most definitely don’t want to vibe check, I am trying to use logic here.

[Upwards]

45-7

Spoiler:

I don't really think that Enchant - Upwards on this page is TvT honestly. @1111 feels incredibly aggressive when Upwards did not really play like that the whole game. In fact, I think felt like he faked the aggression after being questioned by Gyp on Enchant. (which I can see him doing as town, btw).
And Enchant had his first game determinative post of the game. The fact it was after questioning by Upwards of all people is weird.

It not only feels that way, it really is unusually aggressive for my standards and I meant every word. For the simple reason that I realized that I won’t make progress here otherwise.


Now that you’re back, I’d still be interested in the answer you promised in 1006. As well as elaborating on your 1209if you will.

[Upwards]

And now you argue because of him you won’t answer my question?

What is your question?

What do you make of 1031?

Meta is unreliable. But yes, these my previous games.

Now that’s a start at least. But in what way unreliable? Do you acknowledge a difference between your Town and Scum gameplay in there and argue that it can’t be used for reference in future games, or is your argument that there’s no meaningful difference to begin with?

There's Town games which can be compared with Mafia ones. Ultimately, only thing are changed is my starting knowledge.

If i knew about difference, i will eliminate it or defy it.

So the latter, yes?

There's no denial that i may act differently. But if i noticed it, i would imitate it.

I don't know the answers.

Ok I feel like this is going nowhere again. Enchant, you said you’d explain your Reads if asked. I ask you to do just that.

[Upwards]

I’m also semi baiting with my energy to try and see who tries to pounce.

Lap and Delta are the two biggest offenders of that, but I’m starting to think Delta just town who doesn’t get ‘it’.

If that’s the case, why would you ever tell us that you’re baiting? Now who is supposed to fall for it anymore?

Or are you already finished? In that case, can you detail your findings a bit more please.

[Upwards]

Also feels like Upwards fake, amirite

I said fake fake fakity fake

Fake fake fakity fake

Feels like the MACHO MAN snapped into your slim Jim, ooooh yeeeeaaah

I can’t speak for the macho man

Ok then, please just let me hear your own thoughts on 1005.

I think your gamma vote specifically and how it came about was townie.

After i saw the rest of your gameplay, and how you’re still learning the forum mafia style like this, and i kinda felt like you vibe check voted Gamma.

I also agree with pings on Hu Tao/Delta, i don’t really have concrete for Hu Tao.

Ok now where’s this complete 180 coming from? Also I most definitely don’t want to vibe check, I am trying to use logic here.

I clearly switched how i read you after I read the game.

So what was your original read based on? Just the last page at that time? Just at Mucho Man voting me? I’d like to know.

[Upwards]

I am not game throwing, i in fact play for my wincon more than everyone else combined.

How?

If your argument as Town is that by eliminating yourself first you ensure both Doc Claims stay alive, wouldn’t it be better to try to find other Scum today instead of self-sacrificing like that?

And as Mafia this makes even less sense I feel like.

The only thing I see here is a way too obvious Jester angle which can’t be, so what is going on?

[Upwards]

Just so funny seeing all of Lap’s posts knowing they are scum

If I said I had an inno on Lap, what would you say?

If it’s a gunsmith inno, they’re a scum doc.

And probably call you scum if anything else, cuz I know for a fact Lap is scum.

I have also been calling you scum.

What is a gunsmith inno?

[Upwards]

I will support any wagon outside of doctors. Short on time.

How much time is left?

[Upwards]

Okay well flavor just confirmed he was fake claiming on lap. I'm not an investigation role

Please explain how this confirms anything I don’t get it anymore. Are games on here always like this?

[Upwards]

Okay well flavor just confirmed he was fake claiming on lap. I'm not an investigation role

Please explain how this confirms anything I don’t get it anymore. Are games on here always like this?

No. You were unlucky enough to be in a game flavor wants to fake claim and cause chaos

Okay, but that was the less relevant part of my question. How about the other?

[Upwards]

I never told a lie, i just true claimed a bunch a shit that wasn’t true

Claiming shit that isn’t true sounds like lying to me

How can I trust you said the truth this time?

[Upwards]

Comical, the issue here is that I’ve trouble making sense of what you did for both Town!Comical and Scum!Comical.

Also I am wondering about your proposed Town Block. Specifically can you run me through the argument of Hu Tao being town based on her recent actions from your perspective?

[Upwards]

I think Upwards lurking this close to the end of D2 is extremely scummy by the way

Busy weekend plus a weird game state.

Don’t need to worry about my vote Laplacian, I fully intend to cast it. Just not decided on who yet, I’ll make up my mind once I’ve read the last pages more closely when I get home from work.

[Upwards]

Is this day still going? Had some really bad timing with having no time to play it turns out, but now I’m back. Gonna read the new stuff now.

[Upwards]

sorry btw if you're town Upwards

but anyway you did say you didn't want to be pitied for being a newbie and all

Yea sure if you think it’s likely I’m Scum absolutely consider to vote me, there’s no fun in playing with players that don’t do what they think is their best move.

[Upwards]

I think Upwards and Delta are both town. I'm concerned by the Comical and Hu Tao votes. Unsure on Gypyx

VOTE: Upwards

Have to say this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me either

[Upwards]

45-7

Spoiler:

I don't really think that Enchant - Upwards on this page is TvT honestly. @1111 feels incredibly aggressive when Upwards did not really play like that the whole game. In fact, I think felt like he faked the aggression after being questioned by Gyp on Enchant. (which I can see him doing as town, btw).
And Enchant had his first game determinative post of the game. The fact it was after questioning by Upwards of all people is weird.

It not only feels that way, it really is unusually aggressive for my standards and I meant every word. For the simple reason that I realized that I won’t make progress here otherwise.

Now that you’re back, I’d still be interested in the answer you promised in 1006. As well as elaborating on your 1209if you will.

I don't remember exactly the details, but the E-1 situation for me:

• HT offering to quickhammer is NAI for me. People just like to hammer and it was clearly a bluff. She made the threat against both Margot/Gamma, but the fact that she got cold feet with a scum player already off the wagon? Yeah I do not see a huge problem.
  
• Delta putting Gamma at E-1 after criticizing HT for a possible quickhammer is a little scummy, sure. But it's policy here on MafiaScum (or at least it was) to wait for intent and I think Delta respects HT as a player to know she's not going to hammer without intent, even after the threat. Delta's argument that no one would expect Gamma to hammer herself has credence even if Delta's scum. I really do not think that Delta!scum would put Gamma at E-1 thinking she was going to hammer herself.

Now, answer me this.
You like to talk a lot about D1. Have you had any reads that changed during the night? Specifically between the Gamma flip and the start of the day? Something that caught your eye during the night?

"Just like to hammer" doesn’t sound like a great strategy, and Hu Tao didn’t answer to my question about this being a bluff or not. What’s your argument exactly with Margot as Scum defending Gamma? At that point only Scum knew Margots role, so if Hu is town I don’t see how this becomes relevant in hindsight.

And while I agree that Gamma eliminating herself was strange, I feel like that just distracts from what was really going on, namely two players not doing what they said they’d do.

Granted, D2 blew everything out of the water in that regards anyways as I’ve to acknowledge now…

To answer your question: Not in the night as game phase. But sure, I’ve made the thoughts I’ve shared at the beginning of D2 after the Gamma flip.

[Upwards]

As for my vote:

I lean more town on Enchant now following the reasoning that is behavior is slightly less crazy as Town than as Scum.

That still leaves me with Delta, Hu Tao and Comical as my three most suspicious reads at this point. And out of those, Scum!Comical would be the biggest threat, since he clearly has some kind of 4D Chess plan that I’m not fully getting. Also not a fan of him coming in calling me super fake only to townlean on me now with the only reason given being that he hadn’t realized I’m new when he made the first statement, after I had asked for clarification on Mucho Mans unreasonable arguments against me.

Since there’s only my and Deltas wagon left though, and I don’t wanna hammer when I’m the counterwagon, I’ll say that I really like PoPs and Luccas argument here.

VOTE: Upwards

[Upwards]

Now I understand what you’re saying. I was wondering actually the same thing about you - in reverse - because it read to me like you didn’t consider the possibility of her being town in that argument. This depends on if you take before or after N1 as point of discussion though.

[Upwards]

there isn't any motivation for a self-vote on that situation other than 'scoring town points' by the way

I’d argue there’s a whole lot more of motivation behind it. But nothing I’d talk about right now.

[Upwards]

Ok I seriously don’t get how Lucca looks bad here even in the slightest, he did what he promised to do and hammered Delta which turned out to be indeed Scum. Went from NullTown to pretty likely Town in my book.

The intent of my self-vote was definitively not to get myself eliminated btw lol.

[Upwards]

just thought Upwards was more likely to answer given his lurking if there was a wagon on him at the end of D2
it worked and we got a weird self-vote out of it

Realtalk here, what you describe as lurking was me being legitimately exhausted irl that weekend. I was aware the game was going on and tried to follow it, but had no energy to participate much. I always knew I’d have to do so around the Deadline at the latest though, cuz otherwise what’s even the point of continuing to play? The wagon on me didn’t have anything to do with me posting again.

Nope. Lucca did lead countereagon to delta so its still pretty scummy slot to me

what if both wagons were on scum btw
doesn't the self-vote makes a lot of sense this way if we hit on both wagons and Upwards is trying to create chaos before the deadline to try and get a no-lim given that most suspicion would fall on me and gyp?

In a world with me and Delta as Scumbuddies and Delta at E-1 declared to get hammered before Deadline there’s only one viable play I’d see for me given I’ve leaned Scum on her for a long time: Hammer her first.

[Upwards]

Shall we go Upwards today?

Nah

[Upwards]

And in general, Upwards has had some weird things. Lucca pushing an Upwards wagon and Delta joining with Upwards self voting does look like potential partnering with Delta/Upwards. Upwards played really weird there.

Upwards also has gotten hung up on something Macho Man had said, and kept trying to get me to explain what Macho Man said. I am not Macho Man, idc what Macho said, I dont know what Macho's thought process was. Just because it's my slot, doesn't mean I know where Macho was coming from.

Macho Man made a shit argument calling me sus, you fill her slot and immediately called me sus without giving any argument whatsoever. And then you wonder that I ask what’s going on??

Also remind me why I as Scum would ever not hammer my very doomed looking scumbuddy although I’d have had very good justification to do so???

[Upwards]

I don’t have more time right now but this evening I’ll explain to you all how I am Super town and frankly kinda cool in general.

[Upwards]

Alrighty, looks like I’m supposed to be on the Chopping Block next here, huh?

So before we do just that, let me say that other than Gypyx I think I have a VERY compelling defense to make for myself:

Comical:

Zeeb, Clap, and Upwards my stronger town reads as of right now. 1168

Upwards, imo, obvious newtown 1228

Imo, everything Upwards has been posting has been completely genuine and isn’t coming in bad faith. You can see in their posts when they ask questions, they genuinely want to know the answers, and you can’t always say that with people 1291

I just really don’t think it’s Upwards. Maybe I’m blinded, but i just really think they believe everything they say, and the questions they ask make sense in my head that they don’t know the answers to the questions they ask. 1369

I really don’t think Upwards flips scum, but I’ll hammer to avoid day ending without 1946

Upwards just feels like noob town 2151

FuDuzn:

Upward though gives me town vibes, I don't feel N00bs scum comes in like that. 127

Gamma Emerald:

Upwards feels like town but I think if his logic steps up a bit that’ll become more readable, so I’m trying to get him to think deeper. 442

Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think. 524

Alianna and Upwards are town imo 722

Hu Tao:

LMAO you're funny. I think you can be town for now actually. 165

PoP:

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances. 986

Simply ask yourself the following: Would I be able to quote all this if it was Scum!Upwards in his very first game?

…

And with that, I rest my case.

[Upwards]

I kinda can see Upwards making all these posts as town.

And that is exactly my point. When you, an apparently super experienced player here, say you can see me making all my posts as noobtownie, maybe that’s just what it is. The alternative would be me as noobscum being able to make you doubt about my Scuminess. Is that more likely, realistically?

[Upwards]

Simply ask yourself the following: Would I be able to quote all this if it was Scum!Upwards in his very first game?

none of these are explaining your actions, they're all discussing how other people have read you way in the past

where are your vote patterns, the plays that make no sense if you were scum, the smoking gun of your townitude?

I have been pretty transparent about my actions throughout the whole game. In contrast to certain other players, may I say.


Do I open like this in 91 as Scum? Do I say there’s something going on with Hu and Delta while still keeping my vote on Gamma as Scum? Do I get put to E-1, see my own wagon diffuse and then don’t take the Enchant hammer offered to me on a Silver tablet as Scum? Do I say Delta is a player looking sus all the time only to not take the easy route of hammering her when she supposedly was going down either way? Hell, do I even get involved at all in this mess that d2 became as Scum?

I mean, sure, if all of this looks like what Scum would do, then I am probably Scum…

[Upwards]

Apparently right now we aren’t ready to do anything at all. For the record, Comical is who I’d vote if I hadn’t seen a way better play just now.

Lucca is more towny than upwards

I’m okay going Upwards if we’re ready to end the day, but I really can’t say I’m certain Up is scum.

VOTE: Upwards

Hammer me then, if you are not bluffing for once.

[Upwards]

GG

Truth be told, d1 I was amazed how well everything was going. Knew I had to get my vote in somehow and Gammas early townblock that had gained some resistance was just the perfect excuse for me as beginner to act so very sus of. Really liked what Margot and Delta where doing as well with their positioning.

Then comes Naerys and brings us to what I felt was near Auto-Loss with one bullet lmao.

D2 was wild. I didn’t understand what Comical was going for, and initially it looked great for us on surface, but in the end I had to realize that my bad gut feeling about this was completely right. In hindsight there might be a lot to learn from this and I should have interacted more than the little I forced myself to.

I probably overplayed my hand by not hammering Enchant, but I felt like it’s now or never to look towny after narrowly escaping my own E-1. It’s a bit unfortunate Delta got voted for looking NullScum instead. She was a truly fantastic teammate but with one big flaw: She believed too much in me. I gotta like her for that but realistically it was the right move.

So I see she’s at E-1, and I panic. I was gonna hop on the Comical wagon but was to late and suddenly I’m the counterwagon. At that point, I knew we were fucked. With Deathline looming 99% she’s the one going down and that’s GG. And here’s where I stop acting rationally.

What was my Selfvote for? I couldn’t bring myself to hammer. I knew it always was the better play with Lucca promising to hammer Delta but I just could not. So when I realized the alternative was literally a meme that was some solace and just went for it.

Delta left me with some plans for the night, and probably I should have followed that. But now I was convinced we lost since there’s literally 0 endgame for me with the way I’ve built my pseudo townieness on the sole argument of me being a overwhelmed newbie.

So I try to kill Naerys. Reasoning being, if the kill ever goes through - and I honestly thought there was a non-zero chance for Doc and Bg to cover each other - that’s my only way back into this game by creating more doubt. A low percentage play but the only one I saw left.

The fast Miselim on d3 was all Deltas work and then on d4 I knew this was it. My defense honestly was less of an actual defense - there was nothing I could argue; noone I could blame - and more of a veiled confession mixed with joking around. It still worked to some degree and I got the feeling it’s going to be a sloooow death, so I decided to take one last chance and Selfvote again. Was very sure the game would be over when I come on again but in the off chance it wouldn’t, I might be in a playable position again.

I tried to make it harder for Comical to hammer me ( pretty sure he’d still have done so tho ) but in comes Hu and claims the Town victory. Which in a way is poetic, since I got a notification at the very start of the game and when I clicked it I saw Hu commenting a one liner under my first post and Instavoting me. Made my hearth drop and told me I’m up for a challenge.

( About my surprisingly scrutinized opening btw. I’d have posted the exact same thing as town. I can see now how it’s a bit too naive though. )

All in all it was some great fun. Didn’t know what to expect from it when I signed up for my first game and wasn’t exactly hyped when I saw the Mafia role pm, but it all turned out surprisingly interesting. I wanna thank everyone who was a part of this.

Also special shout-out to Lucca who read me like a book throughout the whole game wtf dude

[Upwards]

It was hinted at in the dead chat, but was I the night kill because I was all over margot?

(I was FuDuzn btw)

Margot and Delta thought we should kill you because it would have made Margot look like town. Meanwhile I was focused on other things and would have preferred to kill Lucca, so they can answer your question in more detail I think.

[Upwards]

It was hinted at in the dead chat, but was I the night kill because I was all over margot?

(I was FuDuzn btw)

Margot and Delta thought we should kill you because it would have made Margot look like town. Meanwhile I was focused on other things and would have preferred to kill Lucca, so they can answer your question in more detail I think.

Hmmm, not sure how it would have made Margot look good.

But I appreciate you wanting to keep me alive lol

The argument was something like "There’s no reason for Margot to get in a fight with FuDuzn if she’s going to kill him at night anyways", I believe

[Upwards]

How silly you must be to selfvote?

Pfft.

10/10 post btw

[Upwards]

Btw i know you weren't in the best of positions upwards but shooting Naerys over and over certainely wasn't too helpful

Funniest thing is I even argued in Mafia Chat d2 that Naerys is NEVER our shot.

But with how things turned out I didn’t see how killing anyone else would be good enough to get myself back on track.

[Upwards]

Its kinda funny how one decision can make or break the game

If you don’t shot there - or even better, shot town - we’d have been in a way more commanding position to make plays. Not wanna say that you saved town since it wouldn’t have been an Autowin for us by any means but you certainly made it a whole lot easier for your team.

[Upwards]

tried every gambit on the book today it was really cool to see no joke

That becomes a whole lot easier once a Flygon nightkilled your Juggernaut, your Scumbuddy got munched by lions, and your own existence is about to be disproven.

With nothing to lose there’s nothing left to worry about.

[Upwards]

So my thought process was that BG Comical always is on Lap, but Lap not necessarily always on Naerys. And a Naerys kill would lead to a whole lot of questions whereas a Comical kill would confirm him as town when he was the only one I was in a position to be openly suspicious about aside from the Hu angle which kinda went nowhere.

[Upwards]

Naerys is conf town and I was hoping they bluffed about the 1x vig shot. And if I doc you, I'm relying on you to guard the right target instead of me choosing the right target, and while I' 99% sure you're town, I'm 100% sure I am. Unless we had agreed to mutually target each other, that just seems like an extra, messy step

It seems to me Lap in fact considered doing exactly what I was hoping for but correctly estimated town doesn’t need to go for it.

[Upwards]

Perhaps, perhaps. But it’s difficult if people say they think you might be town but will vote you anyway. They had good reason to doubt me and I was too inexperienced to talk myself out of it.

[Upwards]

Solution simple, don't roll mafia.

Feel like the solution would have been to hammer YOU

[Upwards]

Yeah I thought Upwards was town in the beginning but his self vote on the delta vote and today's defense solidified him as scum. Very good work, upward!

Hu you can’t imagine how relieved I was reading your "you can be town for now". Wasn’t kidding when I called you a potential guiding light early on, with a bit more conviction you could have solved this game even earlier.

[Upwards]

I like your signature, Upwards!

I love my signature

[Upwards]

Better?

[Upwards]

Yeah sure it's cool

now i need to play an actual good scumgame for once so i can get a quote

Are you only this crazy good at getting townread while playing town? In that case I will know you’re Scum when I read you as Nulltown next game.

But I shall make sure to deliver some quotable lines about your obvious townieness if I indeed end up townreading you.

[Upwards]

newbtown my ass Upwards is a good fucking player

Boldest newbscum i've ever seen

That’s pretty much the only thing I told myself going into this game. Yes, probably it will be an L but damn certainly not for a lack of trying and not for being to scared to make plays. But then Comical arrived and his Gambit was just too NextLevel for me to comprehend how I should react.

[Upwards]

I like your signature, Upwards!

I love my signature

very tempted to use some of your posts on the mafia pt as a sig hahaha

"Next game I’m scum I kill Lucca n1 no questions asked lmao"

Think this one is my favorite. And just to warn you, I was very serious muahahaha

[Upwards]

Yeah sure it's cool

now i need to play an actual good scumgame for once so i can get a quote

Are you only this crazy good at getting townread while playing town? In that case I will know you’re Scum when I read you as Nulltown next game.

But I shall make sure to deliver some quotable lines about your obvious townieness if I indeed end up townreading you.

Honestly, it depends, like, i'm basically obvtown half the time as town and the other half not so much

consistently shit at playing scum tho, even if i managed to win a scumplay award haha

or i might just say that so that you don't get ammo against me ;3

I will have to see you play as Scum then one day to make up my mind about that.

But hey that award sounds super cool what’s the story behind that?

[Upwards]

"Subject: TENET - Bell's Notes

I wish I had a single clue what gyphx was doing.
He's playing horrible as either alignment.[/quote]

rude

am i that bad though?"

This is just too funny sorry. Getting carried is a skill as well though.

And why am I not surprised to read the last remaining townie was Comical? Miseliminnating him seems to be a good challenge in itself.

But holy shit I glanced over this and don’t understand wtf is going on think I’ll stick to Simple Games for the time being when I get to play.

[Upwards]

Okay reading more I see an early townblock blamed for the town loss hmm

Who could have thought those might be scummy hahaha…

[Upwards]

Do you guys know that not a single soul has thanked me for modding this game, nor has anyone except Gypyx commented on its flavor and aesthetical design, and this breaking my heart?

Do I not count as a soul?

Personally I’m more of a fan of a clear storyline instead of at most losely connected random facts if you’re looking for constructive feedback, but that’s just my personal preference.

[Upwards]

Ah nah I just saw you’re technically correct which is of course the best way of correct.

Gotta play a theme game at some point lol

[Upwards]

You guys are just so hilarious I love this site

[Upwards]

Tell me which theme game you would like to play and I'll make an effort to mod one.

There was some post talking about roles and I liked one especially, think it was called "Advocate" or something like that?

Basically certain Advocate roles can anonymously ( ? ) open certain petitions and if enough other players sign them their effects come into play, but all one sees before signing is which other players already signed, not the effect it will cause.

I am not too sure on the details anymore but remember thinking that sounds hilarious when I read it. So yea having some kind of lawyer theme with a bunch of those roles on both sides might be funny.

[Upwards]

Yeah tbh we had a lot of ammo to work with

not a lot of guaranteed utility but i think this setup was balanced around town missing everything

I’d say it had this really cool Mafia play of hitting the Juggernaut Shot on the Doc Target, so in a way it was more about Scum hitting than about Town missing. The issue was more that this was really the only thing going on for Scum so it became very volatile.

[Upwards]

Interesting, where did you read about this? On this site? On the wiki?

Definitively on this site. Maybe I’ll find it if I look it up.

[Upwards]

Like I really think this game would have still ended in a town win if Lap had only 2 shots, but at least Upwards would have had A CHANCE.

Tbf I kinda Yoloed it at the end, that was more my fault than the setups lol

My whole premise was to kill Laps Target and therefore make him sus in the process but if he was 2 shot he’d never have claimed 3 shot so the play wouldn’t have worked out either way even if Naerys eventually dies.

[Upwards]

Interesting, where did you read about this? On this site? On the wiki?

Definitively on this site. Maybe I’ll find it if I look it up.

Yup found it it’s around page 496 of a thread called "Grand Idea Mafia"

[Upwards]

For example. Still like the Mason stuff you described back in the Scum chat as well. Did that game already happen since then?

[Upwards]

I think it’s a cool concept but - since I probably prefer longer games if I find the time to commit at all - Sudden Death just isn’t something I’d enjoy.