Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame
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Upwards Goon
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Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.
Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.
I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.
That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?
So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.
GL,HF"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I played it on my phone app, didn’t even know ToS forums existed until just now. I assume the main difference are the time intervals as well then? From what I’m used Town usually did what the loudest, most confident players recommended, no matter the flaws under the shining surface of their logical reasoning. Less time pressure should mean more focus on that logic aspect, which I appreciate and am looking forward to.In post 92, Gypyx wrote: Right on so far ! As it seems you've played way more ToS (may i ask if it was on the forums or the actual game?) i'd say mostly that in terms of roles, you need to expect half the town to not have any powers, scum huting is therefore way less reliant on mechanical data and more like, actually reading people, take all i say with a grain of salt obviously, but try to focus on seeing the intent / mindset / agenda behind what people are saying, should be a good start
Not sure what to make of ScumHunting being mostly based on reading people.It’s gotta be a lot of fun, but appears a little bit difficult to get started without any mechanical hints. Alas, I shall try my best to form some leans.
Another broken quote fixedLast edited by DragonEater70 on Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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wtf happened with the formatting lol?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Wow, I absolutely love it. Like, unironically it made me laugh. Very first post on this site and I get to hear my opening is scripted. Fun Fact: It’s not. It’s just the story of how I came here in the first place, cuz with what else to start? "Hi" was already taken you know. But you’re right, I obviously had some idea of what I wanted to put in there.In post 107, Hu Tao wrote:
Could be. But I feel new people are not as likely to have a scripted opening like that.In post 105, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why is it scum instead of just newb?In post 101, Hu Tao wrote:
VOTE: upwardIn post 91, Upwards wrote: Day 1 Vet Bait here, TP/LO on me. Oh wait, wrong game.
Alrighty, so here we are, my first ever comment in my first ever Mafia game. Super excited to try this out, hope I find the time to properly contribute.
I found this site by reading about a funny jester role in a Mafia game with 100 players, and then I kinda got hooked and read the whole thing. It was interesting. My main takeaway was that the dude with the Majoras Mask Profil picture was right, town needs to rule with an iron fist. Less chitty chatty, more substance.
That said, seeing as I’m new to this I obviously don’t intend to tell others how to play. Not like I’d be familiar with the normal meta here already. In Town of Salem which is my main experience with this sort of genre so far it would be customary to start by going down the playerlist asking for roles, but from what I understand that’s not how it works here?
So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.
GL,HF
This seems a bit forced for me.
Also am I misunderstanding something or are you saying I am not new? I literally had no account just a couple days ago…
Anyways, with this Hu Tao officially comes into my Slightly Town leaning order. I think Mafia would feel silly making such an argument and from what I’ve seen so far she’s on track to become a guiding light. I like Posts 96,97, and 113 simply because it mirrors what I’ve seen from trusted townies in the game I’ve read. This seems to be the way to go. Alternatively she’s a pretty good Scum player."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I’m afraid I don’t understand, what does "poat" and "nai" mean? ( English is not my native language )In post 119, Laplacian wrote: Upwards has the tryhard poat that feels nai from a newbie."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.In post 176, lucca261 wrote: I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for .
Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.
Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:
I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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In post 185, Gypyx wrote: Anyways here's a recap about what i think of everyone, not sure that's too useful but whatever
Spoiler: ooo
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t really worrying, it was more me being excited to finally start. Hypothetically speaking, which upside would I have as Scum to open like this? To put anything out there right away that people might feel strange about? None that would come to my mind at least.
E: fixen broken formatting (N.B.: the [/quote] tag used to be missing)Last edited by biancospino on Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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ffs I fear I’ll need the broken Quote Fixing once again I’m sorry"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Yes! Exactly my thinking, it shouldn’t come across this suspicious to you and yet I’ve been told otherwise which strikes me as strange. Will try to make my mind up about this situation when I have more time later today, as well as hopefully getting to write something about most players in this.In post 199, Gypyx wrote:
While i get the excitement, i feel that as town you would be less focused on if what you wished to say would come out good as since you're town, it should naturally be townyIn post 195, Upwards wrote:In post 185, Gypyx wrote: Anyways here's a recap about what i think of everyone, not sure that's too useful but whatever
Spoiler: ooo
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t really worrying, it was more me being excited to finally start. Hypothetically speaking, which upside would I have as Scum to open like this? To put anything out there right away that people might feel strange about? None that would come to my mind at least.
E: added missing [/quote]Last edited by biancospino on Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Ah, now I get where you’re coming from. See, just because I’m new doesn’t mean I can’t differentiate between someone being nice and someone making sense. So at that point I was less worried about getting tricked than about understanding how to proceed, since when I started posting there was very little I could conclude from the previous content. Think I have a better grasp now.In post 222, lucca261 wrote:
The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.In post 193, Upwards wrote:
Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.In post 176, lucca261 wrote: I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for .
Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.
Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:
I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.
Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.
Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game.
But while I’m familiar with the term buddying, what’s elimbait?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Actually I can see it funnily enough, especially with that last paragraph being potentially usable as a setup to justify changing course in the future. Thing is, town might just as well make this post and I have it on good sources that I am not the buddy of anyone.In post 237, FuDuzn wrote:
My first reaction to this was a buddy talking to a buddy, kind of a tinfoily take but I wanted it out there to see if someone else agrees, of I am just seeing something that isn't there.In post 222, lucca261 wrote:
The thing is: if you are town here, it's very likely that scum will try to use your status as a new player to advance their game. Not in a "I'm evil, kill all the newbies" way, but maybe by buddying you, maybe by trying to use you as elimbait, stuff like this.In post 193, Upwards wrote:
Why exactly should I be paranoid, and of what? Don’t really get your point here.In post 176, lucca261 wrote: I'm on that weird path where I kinda think my only scumread so far is Upwards for .
Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post.
Too non-commital, too agreeable. This paragraph in particular:
I mean, this looks a lot like newbscum to me.So I guess I will just start talking about things I find notable reading the previous conversations. Please let me know if you think anything about the points I am making or if I am mistaken in some way.
Being so open on your opening post, even asking people to correct you? I see newb!town would be a little more wary, especially on a game like this with several very experienced players.
Keep in mind this is a early D1 read, so it's not final or decisive in any way. But it's something that pinged me early game."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Okay here we go.
I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.
On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.
I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Nah, I did say that I read it. ( Although skimmed would have been a more fitting word tbh ) So the premise here isn’t accurate.In post 264, DeltaWave wrote: So here are my initial thoughts after reading ISOs.
Lucca- I already explained why lucca is in my scumpool and the ISO didn't really change that. In fact, I find it concerning that Lucca is potentially misrepping Upwards in Post 176. "Not to play armchair psychologist, but I think a guy who read a 100-person game on this website (and probably read several wallposts on the way) would feel a little more paranoid on his first post." Upwards didn't say that he read a 100 person game, just that he heard about it. So it's a bit unfair to assume (possibly wrongly) that he actually read it.
I still agree with the notion that there should be more interesting stuff to talk about though…"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.In post 301, Gamma Emerald wrote:
this is surface level analysisIn post 273, Upwards wrote: Okay here we go.
I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.
On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.
I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.
So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.
So what do you make of that?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Yeah okay but if you’re scum why play for eventually getting flipped? It actively makes it harder to fulfill Mafias Win Con.In post 323, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chasesIn post 306, Upwards wrote:
I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.In post 301, Gamma Emerald wrote:
this is surface level analysisIn post 273, Upwards wrote: Okay here we go.
I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.
On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.
I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.
So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.
So what do you make of that?
This looks to me like a dubious exchange at best. So nothing I’d reasonably expect from a player like you who has claimed to have played a ton of games.
In other words, I don’t believe you here.
Therefore
VOTE: Gamma Emerald"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I’m saying nothing? I shall elaborate then:In post 342, Gamma Emerald wrote:
You don’t understand high-level play if you think getting flipped as scum can’t be a wincon-advancing move.In post 333, Upwards wrote:
Yeah okay but if you’re scum why play for eventually getting flipped? It actively makes it harder to fulfill Mafias Win Con.In post 323, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I think it would be foolish for me to pigeonhole myself into a position where I would have to maintain my towniness when I feel like I am better at scum when sieing chaos and letting my flip cause wild goose chasesIn post 306, Upwards wrote:
I will have you know that all my thoughts are perfectly real, thank you very much. Sorry if they don’t live up to your standards.In post 301, Gamma Emerald wrote:
this is surface level analysisIn post 273, Upwards wrote: Okay here we go.
I find Gamma suspicious for the townblock on day 1 when that’s a time where there’s really little basis for such a thing.
On the flipside I like Claptastic, Deltawave and Laplacian for calling it out.
I’m really mixed on Gypyx. She’s very active which is probably a good sign, but then again I don’t like my exchange with her. In #92 she feels the need to state that I shouldn’t blindly trust her, which is obvious enough that it irritated even me as a beginner. What follows is this strange discussion only to end it somewhat condescendingly in #206. Not a fan.
Regardless of my alignment I think calling my townblock out is an easy thing to do as scum. This seems less like a real thought process and more like reflexively giving townpoints to player who’ve criticized me.
So here’s the thing, I believe you’re right. It is an easy play for Scum to call out Townblocks. But it’s just as easy for Scum to get the idea of forming an early town block. And the latter would be way more problematic so that’s what I am more concerned with right now.
So what do you make of that?
This looks to me like a dubious exchange at best. So nothing I’d reasonably expect from a player like you who has claimed to have played a ton of games.
In other words, I don’t believe you here.
Therefore
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
The second part just looks vague and trite. Calling it a “dubious exchange” with zero backing thought process is unhelpful. And I don’t see how my games played has to do with what you’re saying becauseyou’re basically saying nothing.
Getting flipped as scum inherently hurts your win Con since it’s literally dependent on the number of Scum left alive. All for the potential upside of chaos. But chaos in itself isn’t useful if you fail to then abuse it properly. While the downside of having lost a player remains a cold, hard fact.
Just a simple Risk/Reward question. It’s basically the equivalent of a dubious sacrifice in chess. Now you have to proof compensation somewhere down the line, while there would have been more solid routes available. And in general players will play more solid the more experience they get.
All just very basic reasoning in my mind. So I’m not sure if you don’t understand me or if it’s that you do not want to understand me."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I can’t help but find it interesting how Naerys calls Gamma and Hu Tao buddies only for both to swiftly townread her for it. Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?In post 355, Hu Tao wrote:
I don't agree with the post. But I can see how and why she came to that conclusion so that makes it a great post.In post 354, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I agree that Naerys feels town, but calling that a great post doesn’t landIn post 350, Hu Tao wrote:
This is a great post from you. I think you're town (for once)In post 339, Naerys wrote: I thought Hu Tao´s entry was towny but as the game progressed, i dont like her dynamics with Gamma at all.
Also dont like Gamma´s reasoning for switching vote on Claptastik. Overall i get a feeling like Gamma is trying to position herself as town, and is worried that she doesnt look towny enough.
I think Gamma+Hu Tao are buddies.
VOTE: Gamma"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I’m having a Deja vuIn post 461, Hu Tao wrote: If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering
I’d like to understand your motivation here. Is it the same play you explained in 347?
Personally I’m still suspicious of Gamma but assuming both you and Delta are not bluffing that means we let RNG decide what happens if Gamma gets to E-1? There’s no way to tell who will randomly be on their phone in that moment should it happen."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.In post 463, Claptastik wrote: Why are you afraid to lim a scum read?
What’s your stance on this though?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Thinking about it it becomes even more complex since there’s no way to know if it was real RNG. Either side could just delay doing their part while being perfectly aware of E-1 to see if the other side acts eventually. And then claim RNG anyways. Just looks like a mess to me.In post 464, Upwards wrote:
No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.In post 463, Claptastik wrote: Why are you afraid to lim a scum read?
What’s your stance on this though?
But an interesting mess at least."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I mean I get your point regarding the deadline that’s a fine argument but I don’t think you understood my line of thinking in this case. What do you make of the fact that Delta is currently voting Gamma but vows to back down should it come to E-1 while Hu Tao does the opposite with not voting but vowing to do so should it come to E-1? For me it blurrs the line of who can be held responsible since they’re both saying one thing but currently doing the other.In post 468, Claptastik wrote:
You have it exactly backwards. With a lim now, people ARE responsible for their votes. There's no random chance involved.In post 464, Upwards wrote:
No. I am wondering if random chance would be a helpful tool to progress the game and I’m inclined to say no since it absolves players of responsibility hence enabling scum to hide behind it by making everything more unclear.
What’s your stance on this though?
When you let the game go down to the deadline, that's when people can sayWell I'm not really sure about this but we need a flipand duck responsibility."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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Don’t get me wrong, I’d feel the same would I read her as town atm. It’s the concept I’m questioning behind this.In post 479, Hu Tao wrote:
Why does this scare you if you sus them?In post 462, Upwards wrote:
I’m having a Deja vuIn post 461, Hu Tao wrote: If gamma gets to e-1 I'm quick hammering
I’d like to understand your motivation here. Is it the same play you explained in 347?
Personally I’m still suspicious of Gamma but assuming both you and Delta are not bluffing that means we let RNG decide what happens if Gamma gets to E-1? There’s no way to tell who will randomly be on their phone in that moment should it happen."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I already tried to make an avatar but it said the picture is too large to everything I tried. Actually would appreciate some help in that regard.In post 507, Claptastik wrote:
First, please get an avatar, it makes it easier for others to read the game.In post 484, Upwards wrote: I mean I get your point regarding the deadline that’s a fine argument but I don’t think you understood my line of thinking in this case. What do you make of the fact that Delta is currently voting Gamma but vows to back down should it come to E-1 while Hu Tao does the opposite with not voting but vowing to do so should it come to E-1? For me it blurrs the line of who can be held responsible since they’re both saying one thing but currently doing the other.
From what I've seen, both playing and looking back, there's some bad site meta that comes into play here. On the face of it Delta pings me for the comment, BUT there seems to be a lot of people on this site who think you pretty much always have to go down to deadline in order to generate more info, so that's a mitigating factor.
With Hu Tao, you can have more than one scum read, so no problem voting one person but saying you'll vote another. Also there's site meta that a quickhammer is scummy, so announcing before the fact could be a CYA move. OTOH, in the scenario that gamma and Hu are scum together, Hu's announcement could be a way to avoid gamma's lim while maintaining distancing. I don't see that scenario as highly likely right now, but it's possible.
Regarding quickhammers in general, there's a time and place for them. Here's a game where I, as town, quickhammered scum:
viewtopic.php?p=14023291#p14023291
In this game, we had scum (including gamma in a hydra) at E-1 on D1:
viewtopic.php?p=14010270#p14010270
But then a townie dropped off because so many people here chant the more info mantra:
viewtopic.php?p=14010285&f=51&t=91997&u ... #p14010285
It can be really difficult to get a failed scum wagon back on track. What frequently happens, and what happened in that case, was we went on to lim a low activity townie.
Coming back to the game: I don’t understand the "CYA move" terminology and feel like I might misinterpret your point without it. Would it be fair to say that you’d support Hu Tao quickhammering Gamma if it comes to that?
Also that still doesn’t really answer my concerns with the ( Pseudo- ) Rng involved. But seeing like I seem to be the only one being irritated by that I must assume this situation is nothing unordinary."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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I see. My point with the RNG is that both claimed to do a thing at the same point X in the future but there’s no way to hold them accountable to that claim since they’re directly contradicting each other and can always just blame the other.In post 533, Claptastik wrote:
I save the pic, open it in paint or something, resize, resave, then upload.In post 532, Upwards wrote: I already tried to make an avatar but it said the picture is too large to everything I tried. Actually would appreciate some help in that regard.
"Cover Your Ass." I.e. Hu may be putting the warning up to reduce the possibility of a charge against her tomorrow.Coming back to the game: I don’t understand the "CYA move" terminology and feel like I might misinterpret your point without it.
Another possibility is that she announces it to judge reactions: does anyone drop off? Does someone quickly jump on the wagon?
Yes. I think there's a good possibility that gamma is scum. This is a closed setup, so there's no way to verify a PR claim if she made one. She's posted a lot and interacted with a lot of players, so there's good info to be obtained. I don't see a downside to it.Would it be fair to say that you’d support Hu Tao quickhammering Gamma if it comes to that?
I don't see that there's RNG (pseudo or otherwise) involved. If you're not ready for a gamma flip you're free to remove your vote. Just be prepared to be held accountable for that if she does flip red down the road.Also that still doesn’t really answer my concerns with the ( Pseudo- ) Rng involved. But seeing like I seem to be the only one being irritated by that I must assume this situation is nothing unordinary.
Anyways, my vote on Gamma was a conscious decision that I stand by since I have seen nothing to suggest that my logic doesn’t hold. In my eyes she’s the most suspicious so far and I’m prepared to be held accountable for that."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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So what do you make of Hu Tao saying she’d eliminate Gamma at E-1? Think it’s a bluff?In post 538, Naerys wrote:
I have some nagging feeling like these 2 are working together.Kinda feels like Hu Tao throws a ball and Gamma determines the direction it should go.In post 361, Upwards wrote: Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?
Eh, i really dont know how to put it to words"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Both is correct, In 170 she stated she would quickhammer Margot and in 461 she stated she would quickhammer Gamma.In post 544, Naerys wrote:
I thought Hu said she would hammer Margot, not Gamma.In post 542, Upwards wrote:
So what do you make of Hu Tao saying she’d eliminate Gamma at E-1? Think it’s a bluff?In post 538, Naerys wrote:
I have some nagging feeling like these 2 are working together.Kinda feels like Hu Tao throws a ball and Gamma determines the direction it should go.In post 361, Upwards wrote: Naerys, can you elaborate on what you don’t like about them interacting?
Eh, i really dont know how to put it to words"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?In post 562, Laplacian wrote:
Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else
Would like to hear your case here."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.In post 576, lucca261 wrote: Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)
will re-read with more attention later, but for now
VOTE: Laplacian
Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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My Elo? Hahaha I don’t have any. I just play it rarely and extremely casually. I’m out of book on move 2. Which doesn’t matter though since my opponents are usually out of book move 1. The reason that I’m somewhat familiar with the concepts I mentioned is that I watched a couple chess games from the WM and the commentary was incredibly informative. No comparison to football or the like.In post 612, Laplacian wrote:
From the opening post:In post 569, Upwards wrote:
Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?In post 562, Laplacian wrote:
Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else
Would like to hear your case here.
Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.In post 1, DragonEater70 wrote: Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.
And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?
I’d be interested in knowing why you wanted to know this.
That said, I’m a bit disappointed to hear that it’s really just pity. I had hoped there would have been a better explanation."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Well first of all, I find it a bit irritating that he promised to effortpost "later" and then people jump at him for later being too late. The nature of this game being played 24/7 throughout ones everyday life means there can be very good reasons for a delay. By all means I support not letting players surf through completely unquestioned but in this case I’m a bit surprised by what happened so suddenly.In post 591, lucca261 wrote:
Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to meIn post 580, Upwards wrote:
What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.In post 576, lucca261 wrote: Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)
will re-read with more attention later, but for now
VOTE: Laplacian
Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset
What's your opinion on the post? @559
I think it’s weird that he’s not voting Gamma when he was part of what made me suspicious of her. Can understand the Hu Tao Town read relative to his 232 though I guess? Idk, would need to look more into this."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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That question was for me was it not? I feel like there’s too much upset confusion and too little real logic going on atm.In post 642, Gamma Emerald wrote:
What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question aboutIn post 612, Laplacian wrote:
From the opening post:In post 569, Upwards wrote:
Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?In post 562, Laplacian wrote:
Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else
Would like to hear your case here.
Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.In post 1, DragonEater70 wrote: Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.
And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?my chess ELO?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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For starters, the end of day 1 suggested to me that both Delta and Hu Tao are not very trustworthy since they both walked back on their word regarding Gammas E-1. Then again, I seem to have been the only one giving any credit to such claims so perhaps that’s a normal thing to do on this site here, I wouldn’t know.In post 772, lucca261 wrote: is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.
@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.
With Gamma flipping town I could see scum being on that wagon, will look more into that when I find the time. Still think my reasoning back then wasn’t necessarily wrong, but apparently I have overestimated how scummy the early townblock and Gammas strange 323 really was.
Regarding Margots 373:
Think that looks good for Zebedee who she pretended to be suspicious of. On the other hand she claimed to lean town on Gypyx and you, which makes me suspicious. However Gamma being there as well mitigates that a bit."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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What are you doing here?In post 786, lucca261 wrote:
but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote
check this outUpwards
A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.
I didn’t interact with Margot, true. I also didn’t interact much with quite some other players tbh. Those that read me as null or not at all, mostly. Since that didn’t look too interesting.
I ignored the Margot wagon, true. Simply because I didn’t see much reason behind it.
I made Gamma a viable counter wagon… That’s not even really the truth is it? If you look back, what I just did, you’ll see that Margot had even 5 votes at page 7 and it took 6 more pages until I voted Gamma. I argued my case, true, but it was hardly me rushing to Margots aid. As evident by it taking 20 more pages until Gamma of all people voted Gamma to eliminate Gamma.
I’m not sure what Margots intention was when she put me in the "null-scum-slot". If that’s really the classic partner slot as you put it, that seems like the last slot I would put my buddies in as scum. Why do exactly what town expects?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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I’m confused, what does this mean?In post 815, Enchant wrote:As with my might power, i bless Hu Tao with conftown status.
HEAL: Hu Tao"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Ok seeing as Hu Taos actions were weird but essentially lead to a townie surviving longer, I think that makes Delta the main suspect here since she not only lied but also was part of the wagon. It is a bit weird that she joined it late but not leaving it although claiming to do so appears opportunistic.In post 807, Upwards wrote:
For starters, the end of day 1 suggested to me that both Delta and Hu Tao are not very trustworthy since they both walked back on their word regarding Gammas E-1. Then again, I seem to have been the only one giving any credit to such claims so perhaps that’s a normal thing to do on this site here, I wouldn’t know.In post 772, lucca261 wrote: is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.
@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.
With Gamma flipping town I could see scum being on that wagon, will look more into that when I find the time.
Going over her posts again I remembered how her 264 was factually wrong as well. Didn’t think much of that at the time since I was pretty bored with the topic of my opening but in hindsight it appears suspicious to try to score points like that.
Then shortly before Gammas elimination there’s this whole discussion with Margot that seemed to come completely out of nowhere. Now that Margot flipped scum it almost looks fabricated to me.
Gotta go now playing soccer, but I’ll revisit this train of thoughts tomorrow."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?In post 834, Gypyx wrote:
So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisnessIn post 827, Upwards wrote: Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Lucca, consider this please: You say it’s sus that I voted for Gamma at a point when Margot already was a wagon. But Margot was a wagon basically right from the start of the game, for whatever reason. So does that mean I don’t get to suspect other players than her anymore? If I see a case for Margot, I will make that case. If I see a case for another player, I will make that case, simple as that.In post 863, lucca261 wrote:
Not interacting with other players? That's OK. I don't think I've had a thought about Naerys and Alianna on the last 30 pages. But not giving your opinion/interacting with the player who was, for at least 40% of D1, the leading wagon? That's not natural.In post 816, Upwards wrote:
What are you doing here?In post 786, lucca261 wrote:
but Margot/Upwards makes too much sense for me considering their complete lack of interaction D1, how upwards ignored the Margot wagon in its apex, cast the third vote on Gamma when Margot was the leading wagon (on E-3) to make Gamma a viable counter-wagon
the only comment Margot made on Upwards too is putting him at the null-scum slot (the classic partner position) while defending him on the whole quote
check this outUpwards
A slot that's gotten a lot of heat. I didn't find 81 abnormal at all. Clearly nervous, but I too can remember feeling nervous as town and desperately not wanting to get eliminated first day, even if that attitude is not necessarily the most helpful for town. I think there's definitely an element of defensiveness going on (rf. 121 306 356). Read on their scum hunting is basically similar to Naerys, with the added caveat that it feels mostly externally prompted. Slot to keep an eye on, but null for the moment.
I didn’t interact with Margot, true. I also didn’t interact much with quite some other players tbh. Those that read me as null or not at all, mostly. Since that didn’t look too interesting.
I ignored the Margot wagon, true. Simply because I didn’t see much reason behind it.
I made Gamma a viable counter wagon… That’s not even really the truth is it? If you look back, what I just did, you’ll see that Margot had even 5 votes at page 7 and it took 6 more pages until I voted Gamma. I argued my case, true, but it was hardly me rushing to Margots aid. As evident by it taking 20 more pages until Gamma of all people voted Gamma to eliminate Gamma.
I’m not sure what Margots intention was when she put me in the "null-scum-slot". If that’s really the classic partner slot as you put it, that seems like the last slot I would put my buddies in as scum. Why do exactly what town expects?
Yes, you made Gamma into a viable counter wagon. It happened on page 14.
This was the votecount at the end of page 13.
Votecount
MargotRosa(4):Gypyx, Laplacian,FuDuzn,Hu Tao
lucca261(1):DeltaWave
Upwards(1):lucca261
Gamma Emerald(1):Alianna
Alianna(1):Naerys
Claptastik(1):Gamma Emerald
FuDuzn(1):MargotRosa
NOT VOTING:Upwards, Zeb, Clap
The progression was:- Deltagives me my second vote.Margothas three votes, all unknown.Luccahas two votes, one of them beingFuDuzn.
- FuDuznswitches fromLuccatoMargot, putting her at E-3.
- Clapimmediately unvotesMargot.
- Hu TaovotesMargot, putting her back at E-3.
- Aliannais being replaced. We did not know that at the time, but it would turn theGamma EmeraldRVS vote into a game-determinative vote.
Guess who makes the wagon feel heavier and puts the third/second vote onto Gamma on a moment in which Margot is at E-3? @333. All while stating no opinion on Margot and her wagon. Naerys does the same on @338, but as you know, she's town.
Your vote is basically what turns the Gamma wagon from Clap usual throwing votes around and switching them to a real possible lim.
So in this case I saw a case for Gamma when her comment about how she’d play scum in response to me questioning her about the early townblock appeared untrustworthy to me. Not sooner, not later."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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My favorite role in ToS is, by far, Jester, followed by Survivor and Executioner. I don’t really like other 3rd parties but those three have hilarious outplay potential in my mind, even if not many will agree with me rating Surv so high.In post 865, Mucho Man Randy Passion wrote:
It's buried in my 838 so in case you don't read it I want your answer to this:In post 238, Upwards wrote: just pinging you.
91 - I'll tell you my role. It is to RULE with the People's Elbow and rock-hard abs as I rock, sock, and rumble the scum out of the ring.Do you like being the tiny mafia or do you prefer to DOMINATE the arena in TOS?
But I take it your question is more about Town vs Mafia. And I gotta say, it’s dependent on my mood that day. Sometimes I just wanna chill and play a solid town game and other times I’m excited to claim Jailor d1 as Mafioso to try and completely run the town. Then there are roles like Veteran and actual Jailor who’re pretty much always fun no matter what.
What I don’t like are useless Town roles like Sheriff ( way too easy to counterclaim ) or Medium ( most players dc instantly after dying ). As Mafia I don’t really care about the specific role since most of them are pretty garbage and it’s more about how you act in the day anyways.
Why would you ask?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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I see, good point.In post 934, Gypyx wrote:
Sorry i phrased that pretty badly, my main point was that non serious communication in itself isn't really alignement indicative here, mostly due to like, how big of a time frame we have to figure things out, it's not like ToS where time is very much a constraintIn post 931, Upwards wrote:
You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?In post 834, Gypyx wrote:
So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisnessIn post 827, Upwards wrote: Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.
So in that case I have a question for you Gypyx: What’s your stance on Pizza with Pineapple?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Wow that is relatable.In post 937, Gypyx wrote:
Actually i have a strong opinion on that lolIn post 936, Upwards wrote:
I see, good point.In post 934, Gypyx wrote:
Sorry i phrased that pretty badly, my main point was that non serious communication in itself isn't really alignement indicative here, mostly due to like, how big of a time frame we have to figure things out, it's not like ToS where time is very much a constraintIn post 931, Upwards wrote:
You are allowed to do whatever you want and I am allowed to think about that whatever I want. Deal?In post 834, Gypyx wrote:
So we aren't allowed to banter anymore huh, only serious buisnessIn post 827, Upwards wrote: Dont like Laplacians 781, Gypyx' 783, and Hu Taos 813. In ToS at least it’s considered suspicious congratulating a successful Vig since there aren’t much cheaper townpoints imaginable.
So in that case I have a question for you Gypyx: What’s your stance on Pizza with Pineapple?
most people who claim to hate pizza with pineapple only hate it cause the internet says so, this is one of the biggest nonesense debates of our modern age and i'm willing to bet a wide majority of pineapple pizza haters / lovers never tasted a single slice
anyways personally i dislike it but only cause pineapple on it's own tastes bad to me
So, are you trying to mimick my posting style or what's is going on here
As to what is going on, honestly I’m not quite sure. Reading your 934 that absolute meme of a question just popped up in my brain and I just couldn’t bring myself not to ask it, even though it is pretty pointless."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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In post 935, Gypyx wrote: Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things
Now this makes for a read I’m pretty certain of: Gypyx and Mucho Man are very unlikely to be buddies after this.In post 941, Mucho Man Randy Passion wrote: UNVOTE:
I'm rereading my ISO and zebedee/PoP to answer DW, and my Laplacian vote basically boils down to a couple of bad vibes and him being in the middle of the nulls on MR's list. Kinda arbitrary and WEAK - I managed to CONFIRMATIONALLY BIAS myself into voting Lap."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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This looks to me like it’s made in really bad faith, Mucho Man. I brought up my point about Delta and Hu Tao again and again, but it got ignored almost completely. And why the hell should I fight against the Gamma lim when I was suspecting her at that time?In post 997, Mucho Man Randy Passion wrote:
Point number 1 is complete NONSENSE. The way you describe the posts you linked I would expect to find that Uppercutwards was fighting against the Gamma lim given the tone of FRUSTRATION you say CLEARLY exists. He does not look frustrated by the situation AT ALL. He is in fact, feeling quite JUSTIFIED in throwing Gamma from the ring. He emphasizes that HE will ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and he shades Hu Tao and Delta Wave alike, casting doubt upon which of them would be responsible if Gamma were E-1ed. If he truly cared, he would have FOUGHT to get to the bottom of this.In post 986, Prince of Paterson wrote: The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.
Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.
2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.
Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.
The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.
I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.
VOTE: Uppercutwards"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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It’s interesting you’d say that, because you quoted my 580 in your 591 and answered… half of it. The half nothing to do with the E-1, to be exact.In post 1006, lucca261 wrote: a little too tired to talk about this right now, so I'll just say that I read @986 and my first thought is:
@Upwards, somehow in my 10 re-reads of late D1 I've missed that @580 was a question for me. Didn't intentionally ignore you, sorry. Do you still want an answer?
In fact I even thought about bringing this up as prime example in my 1005 reply to Mucho Man. Just decided not to do that in order to not give her ( an excuse to get, perhaps ) the wrong impression that I’m trying to distract from myself here.
I believe there would be merit in uncovering what Delta and Hu Tao were trying to do back then, so yes, better late than never, I’d appreciate your thoughts Lucca."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Pressure, yes…
May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though. You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1 and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.
The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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I had no read on her, otherwise I would have shared it. I did so in 121 and then 273 for some players that I actually was forming an opinion on at that point, but you’ll notice it’s far from the full read list more experienced players were able to post.In post 1013, Naerys wrote:
Upwards why didnt u vote Margot here? What was your read on her through D1?In post 163, DragonEater70 wrote:Votecount 1.03
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2024-01-14 01:13:22).
That’s also the reason why I didn’t vote her, plain and simple.
In hindsight I can say that her behavior shortly before the Gamma elimination was strange, starting a huge discussion with Delta pretending to try to save Gamma, a player she knew was her opponent, while interacting comparably little with Hu Tao who I saw as the other piece of the puzzle in that situation. As I said in my 828, that looks like an potential avenue to explore for me and I would be interested in hearing an opinion from Delta and Hu Tao on it.
Back then though, I didn’t think any of that."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Everything PoP is posting screams town to me.
Even excluding the topic of myself his view of Enchant sounds reasonable and I second his 1032.
Combined with Margot having his slot as Scum Lean that leaves me with the Prince of Paterson as my most solid town read at this point."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Want to see Enchant to react to his 1031 though."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.In post 1016, Gypyx wrote: the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind
In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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In post 1025, Laplacian wrote:
If you insist.In post 1012, Upwards wrote:Pressure, yes…
May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though.You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.
The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about.
VOTE: Upwards
E-1. You talk about answering questions about day 1 and day 2. How about night 1? Got a claim?
That’s because there was literally nothing to do for me n1. I’m a Vanilla Townie.In post 1034, Hu Tao wrote: Upward should probably claim though
Feel free to ask whatever you want about n1 as well though."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Here’s Delta again with a first paragraph that sounds very agreeable but isn’t really saying much behind what is completely obvious. I’m beginning to understand some of the critic from earlier in the game.In post 1017, DeltaWave wrote:
It's clear from the end-of-day events on D1 that Margot knew Gamma was going to flip town and was trying to collect townpoints by vehemently opposing a mis-elim. The fact is (and truly no offense to Gamma) is that Gamma did a bunch of scummy things despite being town and got eliminated for it. But Margot's apparent certainty about Gamma's flip sounded very much like she was trying to go into D2 looking spotless by opposing the wagon.In post 1015, Upwards wrote: In hindsight I can say that her behavior shortly before the Gamma elimination was strange, starting a huge discussion with Delta pretending to try to save Gamma, a player she knew was her opponent, while interacting comparably little with Hu Tao who I saw as the other piece of the puzzle in that situation. As I said in my 828, that looks like an potential avenue to explore for me and I would be interested in hearing an opinion from Delta and Hu Tao on it.
Back then though, I didn’t think any of that.
That being said, the timing of your vote really did look like it was trying to distract from the Margot wagon.
I am still way behind since I just got home but my limpool right now is pretty much just Upwards and PoP. I do want to take a look at Enchant because I also felt that Enchant's vote against Mucho was weird.
Delta, I’m not wondering about Margots role here. That’s solved. I’m wondering about Hu and You. And in your case, you asked Margot back then why she wants to defend Gamma so badly but, if I haven’t missed anything, you never gave any read other than "Null" on her. In 695 and 706 the argument devolves in total fluff, and from where I stand, that’s still questionable, especially with a player on the verge of being eliminated, even if Gypyx might disagree.
Then you dare say the timing of my vote was looking like a distraction, while you hopped onto the same wagon later with a very strange statement.
And now you come and claim your limpool is just me and the guy who spoke up for me. Marvelous. Could you elaborate on the "Why" please?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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It should come as no surprise when I say that I have my suspicions about both of them currently. Delta even more than Hu Tao.In post 1041, Gypyx wrote:
Hu Tao i read as scum but i feel like they don't make much sense as a mafia member in terms of the game event so i'm holding on to itIn post 1039, Upwards wrote:
If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.In post 1016, Gypyx wrote: the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind
In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?
Delta is probably the slots i have the least thoughts about but i trust they're town
what about you?
They’re not the only ones though. I’m still waiting on an actual argument for Mucho Mans vote for me and when I looked back over Gammas Elimination I found Margots 731 about the Enchant slot interesting, still have to make up my mind about how to read that though."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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I can see your point, but, like, what can I do?In post 1051, Gypyx wrote:
that's a lot of SR's lol, you might wanna thin a bit the list of who you wanna go forIn post 1049, Upwards wrote:
It should come as no surprise when I say that I have my suspicions about both of them currently. Delta even more than Hu Tao.In post 1041, Gypyx wrote:
Hu Tao i read as scum but i feel like they don't make much sense as a mafia member in terms of the game event so i'm holding on to itIn post 1039, Upwards wrote:
If you refer to my reply to Naerys in 1012, the "nothing new to talk about" refered to my own wagon that had more votes than arguments behind it at that point. And I’m a fan of actual arguments so that was what annoyed me.In post 1016, Gypyx wrote: the annoyance around there being nothing to talk about might also come a bit from an informed perspective? Like, that's maybe a me thing but as a townie there's thousands of things i could ask about at anytime, irrelevant yes but when you know the truth it's hard to have theories that are so out there come to your mind
In fact there are a couple of things I’d like to talk about outside of myself. For starters, any thoughts on Delta and Hu Tao?
Delta is probably the slots i have the least thoughts about but i trust they're town
what about you?
They’re not the only ones though. I’m still waiting on an actual argument for Mucho Mans vote for me and when I looked back over Gammas Elimination I found Margots 731 about the Enchant slot interesting, still have to make up my mind about how to read that though.
btw when reffering to individual posts, it is good practice to use the "post" tags[post=*number of the post you wanna link*]text that will show the link[/post]
Delta and Hu Tao decided to say one thing and do the other, Mucho Man argued in what appeared like really bad faith to me, and Enchant is just acting super strange. I can not not be suspicious of them at this point.
Also thanks for telling me how to link posts. I can’t believe we’re over 1000 posts deep and I’ve not heard of it until now.
Test 731"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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What is LHF?In post 1065, Naerys wrote: Also Alianna slot can be either LHF or scum. I dont mind sorting Alianna first, but then we should look at Upwards."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Ok this is an actually good explanation but doesn’t "dubios" come from "doubt"? I figured it means it’s very unclear and probably unlikely to be a good play but not outright impossible.In post 1071, Laplacian wrote:
First, this is a social, hidden-information, 13 player, asymmetric game. A comparison to an entirely mechanical, open-information, 2 player, symmetric game will always be flawed.In post 1053, Upwards wrote: Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?
Second, dubious sacrifice generally implies that the sacrifice is bad; if it was good you'd call it a sound sacrifice. However, sacrificing a scum buddy can definitely pay off if you get enough hard allies. Since the game is social, a bluff is way more powerful here than in chess where you can rigorously analyze some lines to check if a sacrifice actually pays off. If I had to make a chess comparison, hardbussing a scum buddy for clout early would be the Halloween Gambit - where you sac a knight move 4 for crazy strategic presence unless the opponents play perfectly.
And I'm about 1500. Not amazing by any means, but enough that the chess comparison pinged me."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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How do I read this post?In post 1072, Naerys wrote: VOTE: Enchant
green Enchant - look at Upwards, Prince of Paterson
Red Enchant - look at lucca - sat at Upwards basically whole D1, only at the end switche dto Laplacian"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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So in that case shouldn’t you have dropped your Gamma vote like you had announced previously?In post 1092, DeltaWave wrote: I've already explained that. I asked Margot why she wanted to defend GE so badly because Margot seemed convinced 100% that GE would flip town. That was a very sus level of certainty on D1. Of course, that's because Margot knew exactly how GE was going to flip. If Margot wasn't vigged I would have come out of the gate on D2 with this.
The remaining scum are PoP and Upwards as far as I'm concerned. Enchant may be scum but I can't tell because of how they're playing. It's a decent elim from a policy perspective but if you want to catch scum you need to vote PoP or Upwards.
And I ask again, Why are me and PoP Scum and why would Enchant be a decent elim if you’re so sure of that?"Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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Upwards Goon
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That’s funny, but also nonsense. How about a real reply?In post 1093, Enchant wrote:I am side of good.
I just don't care to lick your shoes, as i am nor your servant. You also shouldn't lick my shoes, but i won't stop you."Upwards atp would have to be really good as scum to be fooling me, I think." ~ Gamma Emerald
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