Open 256~Fire and Ice Mafia Over!

[JesseSheffield]

vote: jesse

only player not furiously checking their inbox for role pm. obvscum

Confirmed yesterday, don't worry about it.

[JesseSheffield]

Huh, I guess I'm the only one who didn't random vote.

[JesseSheffield]

For the record, zwets is at least 16, I think it's 17.

I'm also considering voting Katsuki...because I don't like him. It's terrible reasoning but whatever at this point.

[JesseSheffield]

Actually that's incorrect. I vote to lynch. I don't do the whole RVS or any of that. I rarely policy lynch but occasionally I will.

So that's GRATE if you only vote for people if they're scum, but don't tell me how to vote. It's not going to work.

[JesseSheffield]

Actually you said

You vote people if they are scum.

which is incorrect for reasons I just stated.

[JesseSheffield]

So I should not vote scum? Is that what you are getting at here?

Where are you getting that? I think I pretty CLEARLY stated the difference between the way you vote and the way I vote.

[JesseSheffield]

You told me to vote scum, to which I replied that's not always how I vote, and that somehow twists into me telling you not to vote scum? That's interesting...

[JesseSheffield]

And who says that I don't vote to lynch only near deadline? Pretty sure you haven't played with me before and if you'd take the time to meta me you'd find that I've never voted just to vote.

[JesseSheffield]

My prior post should not include the word don't but either way that doesn't change my policy that I only vote to lynch.

[JesseSheffield]

So Robocopter what happened to your insistence that you only "vote for scum"?

[JesseSheffield]

Alright well I'm glad we're on the same page now but I don't really believe that you thought shotty was scum, it seemed much more like a policy lynch to me, correct?

[JesseSheffield]

Bullcrap DJ, the whole shotty situation was just a joke to you.

[JesseSheffield]

I really didn't find anything incriminating to scumhunt with, because basically nothing actually happened on D1 that I found all too particularly scummy.

And the idea that you actually thought shotty was scum at that moment of time is very doubtful to me because you certainly didn't show any inclination that the shotty wagon was anything of a joke to you. So don't lie and say you thought he was scum because if you actually did you would've said something about it. But you didn't. So don't attempt to turn your vote into something it wasn't.

[JesseSheffield]

Sure you had the chance to "say something about it", you voted him. It would only make sense to post reasoning behind a vote on scum WITH your reasoning. I could care less about the modkill I'm more interested in why you made the decision to not say anything about why you believed shotty was scum yesterday, only to shoot back today with supposed reasoning. It doesn't make any sense.

And actually you asked why I didn't do any scumhunting on D1 and I stated that was because I didn't find anything scummy within the first three pages, hence why I didn't do any scumhunting then. Plenty of scummy things happened yesterday, furthered by actions today. Hence, why I"m questioning you.

[JesseSheffield]

oh... right... voting you is scummy.

it helps if you actually read the thread. i voted katsuki. shotty replaced katsuki. katsuki replaced out with a giant AtE on top of his poor play. my "revote" was a joke. i didn't buy shotty's response as legit. where's the disconnect? is it my fault that shotty broke the rules and got modkilled?

The voting me has absolutely nothing to do with your actions on D1, I could care less about your vote today. You said it yourself, your "revote" was a joke, the whole thing was a joke to you, so don't attempt to pass it off as I legit thought shotty was scum like you JUST tried to do today.

[JesseSheffield]

Your insistence that your "revote" on shotty was a joke is obvious. You were clearly joking around and the "giant AtE" is crap. I've NEVER been in a game where that type of scenario actually works out with that slot being scum. That case is ridiculous. I have no idea why you keep bringing up the modkill and attempting to work in other factors. I couldn't give two craps about any of that. I want to know why your joke vote yesterday has all the sudden turning into a serious vote where you ACTUALLY believed shotty was scum today.

I have training from 5.30-10.30p Mondays and Wednesdays. I literally missed almost everything that happened between pages 4-6, but that's besides the point. I did not wait until you voted me to say anything to you. You initiated the conversation by stating that you thought shotty was scum and that is when I started replying to you.

[JesseSheffield]

Er, no. I was asking Robocopter, whom I was having a back and forth with, if he thought shotty was scum. Because to me it seemed like a policy lynch and that would violate his "vote only scum" policy. I actually didn't even realize you thought you were answering my question until just now, I thought you just decided to throw that out there. So since Robocopter hasn't responded yet (and I'm still waiting for his response) I decided to expose you for lying about your vote being for scum (which I still think is accurate).

Why would you have assumed I was asking you? All you did was through out a random vote. I don't reply to random votes because they're a waste of time talking about.

[JesseSheffield]

I find it interesting that you assumed I was attacking you just because you voted for me, with no reasoning behind it at that.

As far as scum reads go you're on my list to watch simply because it seems like you vote with the purpose to not attract attention to yourself by not posting any reasoning behind your votes. I don't see any pro-town advantage to voting without reason. tanstalas' attack on shotty was ABSOLUTELY ridiculous and totally backwards. The idea that Katsuki replaced because she's scum in this game and would leave her team at a disadvantage is just plain stupid. Probably the most opportunistic case/wagon I've ever seen. I'm waiting to see what mothrax follows up with on the shotty wagon to place judgment on them. Commie needs to get their ass back here and jmurph feels opportunistic to me too.

If I had to pick one as being the scummiest I'd pick tanstalas.

[JesseSheffield]

i voted you. you then attacked me for answering your question. whats "interesting" about it?

It's interesting that you'd think a meaningless vote would somehow, magically generate discussion. And I attacked you for lying, not for answering my question, get it straight.

as opposed to you who does not vote at all.

Yet I generate conversation, correct?

the replacement was "selectively" reserved to this game alone as far as i can tell. i have seen scum replace out of tough spots before. i'll have to reread the entire day to see where the context falls.

You think Katsuki was in a tough spot?

[JesseSheffield]

I'm not really sure where to start with DJ's postings. There are too many things to correct that I don't have the energy to do it tonight.

And mothrax is incorrect. Like seriously? Read the set-up.

[JesseSheffield]

@Jesse - if I am the person who find the scummiest - why isn't your vote on me?

Waiting to see what you have to say today. And I really think you're reaching with the jmurph theory.

[JesseSheffield]

i voted. he did not. there is no comparison. but whatever.

DJ your vote meant absolutely nothing.

Commie why would you admit that the mention of Jmurph was a stretch yet vote him anyways?

[JesseSheffield]

So...you're voting jmurph because...whose vote was scummy? I don't understand your logic here.

[JesseSheffield]

Okay so you're reasoning is basically because his vote on shotty was abrupt. Similar to DJ's.

The second part is pretty much throwaway reasoning. I seriously doubt tanstaslas' little bit about rudeboy's mention of jmurph to be accurate. I mean really? Come on now...

[JesseSheffield]

Jessie: if my vote was meaningless then why has it been such a big deal?

Because scum throw meaningless votes out to not attract attention to themselves.

day started. i scrolled up the screen and looked at the ending votecount. jesse and a2 were not voting. a2 was dead. thus, vote jesse. it certainly helped get the game moving. not sure what the issue is.

YOUR VOTE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. It was everything you were doing BESIDES your vote that was getting conversation started. None of your votes have done ANYTHING to start conversation because none of them mean anything!

Vote: DJ

Because I have NO idea how we're going to make it through this game with players as ridiculous as you. I don't think you're the scummiest player but you're in my top three and considering there's four scum that's good enough for me. And I think you'd be the most beneficial dead to the town.

[JesseSheffield]

Sure there are. Votes are meaningless when they're created to fall into a black hole of obscurity by not having any reasoning behind it for other players to go off. It's anti-town, always. And the fact that you're defending anti-town behavior is ridiculous. Scum play all different types of ways and like I said I don't think you're the highest likelihood of being scum but you're pretty darn close. That combined with the fact that you're probably the best lynch of the day cemented my vote for you.

[JesseSheffield]

i would hammer if i could. might as well try:

unvote, vote drmyshottyizsik

*crosses fingers*

vote: jessesheffiled

Neither of these vote had reasoning behind them.

[JesseSheffield]

Sure it is. Waiting around for players to ask you what your vote is about is irresponsible and anti-town play. Casting a vote and then waiting for reaction allows you time to formulate your reasoning behind it, therefore that reasoning cannot be trusted. That renders your vote useless.

[JesseSheffield]

You don't have a case if you don't post reasoning! Again, not posting reasoning allows time to formulate a reactive answer to the question of what the reasoning behind a meaningless vote is. It's perfect strategy for liars because they don't have to worry about getting caught saying something they don't want to say.

[JesseSheffield]

DJ's severely testing my patience.

[JesseSheffield]

Robocopter there's absolutely no reason to not divulge to us your thoughts.

[JesseSheffield]

It's your beliefs not everyone. I'm fairly certain your specific beliefs on who's what is not going to be the same as a lot of other players. And you don't need to give a list, but some insight as to who's scum and why is generally helpful.

[JesseSheffield]

I honestly think Lowell's case on mothrax is crap and I do not understand why anybody would even consider hopping on that. Lowell and mallowgeno look terrible in that respect. I'm going to go back and reread on these two.

[JesseSheffield]

Lowell if you believe that mothrax is just attacking "the low hanging fruit" what do you think you're doing?

[JesseSheffield]

Lowell you're attacking mothrax for a hypocritical reason. Your conclusion that he's deliberating averting legitimate cases is exactly what you're doing. Because by no means is your case a legitimate case. Furthermore, you've had ten posts this entire game and have failed in almost every single one of them to do something legitimately helpful.

So

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

For being hypocritical scum attempting to cruise through this game providing nothing to be incriminated on and just generally being an extremely unhelpful player. Whether that's on purpose or not I'm more than happy with that being grounds of a lynch.

[JesseSheffield]

Nice job of picking my words apart to reveal less than a half truth DJ.

Actually that's incorrect. I vote to lynch. I don't do the whole RVS or any of that.

I rarely policy lynch but occasionally I will.

If I had to pick one as being the scummiest I'd pick tanstalas.

Vote: DJ

Because I have NO idea how we're going to make it through this game with players as ridiculous as you. I don't think you're the scummiest player but you're in my top three and considering there's four scum that's good enough for me.

And I think you'd be the most beneficial dead to the town

.

your reasons here are for basically not liking my playstyle. not really a whole lot of "you're scum because.." in our back and forth. you just didn't like my vote, all the while saying tans was "scummy". bolded is the part that can be read as a "policy" type reason to lynch.

tanstalas' attack on shotty was ABSOLUTELY ridiculous and totally backwards. The idea that Katsuki replaced because she's scum in this game and would leave her team at a disadvantage is just plain stupid. Probably the most opportunistic case/wagon I've ever seen.

My case on tanstalas had nothing to do with a policy lynch so I have no idea where you were going with that? And I had a LOT of reasoning behind why I wanted to lynch you. Nearly a half a page of my ISO posts are dedicated to me wanted to lynch you for X reason. Some of that reasoning did dabble in policy lynch reasoning and I have absolutely no qualms about that. I still think you're useless, I still think you're ridiculous, and I still think you'd be beneficial dead.

If me picking on moth is opportunistic, then clearly you picking on me is as well. We're at a meta-standoff, only at least I believe what I'm saying whereas you, for some reason, feel the need to defend moth's honor.

The difference between us Lowell is I've been actively participating and attempting to generate conversation every moment I can. You've done absolutely nothing. So my attack on you is not even comparable to your hypocritical attack on mothrax. This isn't a meta-standoff, and you don't believe what you're saying. Otherwise you would've taken active steps to make sure you don't fit the exact attack you're employing on someone else.

[JesseSheffield]

Oh my God. I can't even deal with you.

Actually that's incorrect. I vote to lynch. I don't do the whole RVS or any of that. I rarely policy lynch but occasionally I will.

Read the game. You even quoted this. How are you misunderstanding. Let me restate just so you can understand this.

I vote to lynch.

I vote to lynch.

I vote to lynch.

I rarely policy lynch but occasionally I will.

I vote to lynch.

Do you understand DJ?

[JesseSheffield]

I'm assuming by that you're asking why I'm not voting Zed. And the reasons why are because I find him much less scummy than tanstalas was, there hasn't been much activity that I can get an accurate read on Zed from, and other players have popped up clearer on my radar since the beginning of the day. I'm not basing my cases on you or Lowell on policy lynches. There are elements of a policy lynch in it but I believe the likelihood the two of you are scum are pretty high. So I'm quite confident in both my cases on both of you.

[JesseSheffield]

Have I ever stated my top suspect?

[JesseSheffield]

DJ you should know by now that there is a world of difference between identifying a player as acting the scummiest and your top scum suspect. Sometimes they're the same player, a lot of times they're not. tanstalas was a player who I believed acted very scummy near the end of D1, like I stated in the above quote. But that did NOT make him my top scum suspect. Get it straight DJ.

[JesseSheffield]

DJ you're so full of shit that wherever you exist in this world I can smell it from Chicago, Illinois. No offense.

[JesseSheffield]

Looking back that was kind of uncalled for. But I think it's plain for every player to see that my above statement is a little bit accurate.

[JesseSheffield]

DJ how about you go check the post dates from when I stated tanstalas was the scummiest player on D1 and when I voted for you. Also note how many pages/posts are in between that.

[JesseSheffield]

again, the timing between the accusation and the vote only make it

more

suspect. did you question tans? did you vote tans?, did you pursue the player you thought was "scummiest"?

Why would I vote a player who I don't think to be likely scum DJ? You should be intelligent enough to understand that a player who acts the scummiest does NOT make them most likely to be scum. Multiple players have tried explaining this to you, but it seems to just be hitting a brick wall. I'll admit that I got pretty distracted after that post by your scumminess and kind of lost tanstalas in the shuffle until their request for replacement. But if I really had any sort of faith that tanstalas was likely scum I would've been all over that. I talked for a bit about how his case made absolutely no sense but other than that it was a dead lead. And that's when you decided to rear your head up.

So as for wanting to lynch you strictly as a policy lynch-

So don't lie and say you thought he was scum because if you actually did you would've said something about it. But you didn't. So don't attempt to turn your vote into something it wasn't.

Sure you had the chance to "say something about it", you voted him. It would only make sense to post reasoning behind a vote on scum WITH your reasoning. I could care less about the modkill I'm more interested in why you made the decision to not say anything about why you believed shotty was scum yesterday, only to shoot back today with supposed reasoning. It doesn't make any sense.

You said it yourself, your "revote" was a joke, the whole thing was a joke to you, so don't attempt to pass it off as I legit thought shotty was scum like you JUST tried to do today.

I want to know why your joke vote yesterday has all the sudden turning into a serious vote where you ACTUALLY believed shotty was scum today.

As far as scum reads go you're on my list to watch simply because it seems like you vote with the purpose to not attract attention to yourself by not posting any reasoning behind your votes. I don't see any pro-town advantage to voting without reason.

Because scum throw meaningless votes out to not attract attention to themselves.

I have NO idea how we're going to make it through this game with players as ridiculous as you. I don't think you're the scummiest player but you're in my top three and considering there's four scum that's good enough for me. And I think you'd be the most beneficial dead to the town.

Sure there are. Votes are meaningless when they're created to fall into a black hole of obscurity by not having any reasoning behind it for other players to go off. It's anti-town, always. And the fact that you're defending anti-town behavior is ridiculous. Scum play all different types of ways and like I said I don't think you're the highest likelihood of being scum but you're pretty darn close.

That combined with the fact that you're probably the best lynch of the day cemented my vote for you.

Sure it is.

Waiting around for players to ask you what your vote is about is irresponsible and anti-town play.

Casting a vote and then waiting for reaction allows you time to formulate your reasoning behind it, therefore that reasoning cannot be trusted.

Again, not posting reasoning allows time to formulate a reactive answer to the question of what the reasoning behind a meaningless vote is. It's perfect strategy for liars because they don't have to worry about getting caught saying something they don't want to say.

There is a whole world of reasoning behind why I'd want you lynched. As stated above.

its only recently where you have begun to state that you think lowell or i may flip scum. your earlier reasoning was not as confident. your votes on both of us were "well, you might be town, but towns better off with players like you dead."

Hm. Okay. Well to help you out with that I bolded the parts in my quotes where I stated that you're likely scum/anti-town.

And while you're at it quit attempting to pair Lowell and yourself up. You're nowhere near on the same level.

As for Zed I don't believe he misunderstood or misrepped anything of yours.

[JesseSheffield]

Unvote, Vote: DJ

I'll let the above post do the explaining for me.

[JesseSheffield]

Mmm I feel like I'll never say this again but I'm actually inclined to agree with you Scott. I wasn't really sure what to expect going into D3 but your case on Lowell actually makes perfect sense to me. Keeping in mind my past reasonings for wanted the scumbag lynched-

Vote: Lowell

[JesseSheffield]

Particularly Jesse, who looks lazy as hell.

Really Lowell? I'm the lazy player? Compared to...you?

I have a strong scum read on JS because of his aggression towards DJ; it's very over-the-top and insincere. Comments like "I can't even deal with you" are overblown and a form of AtE; if your case o nsomeone is solid, you shouldn't have to resort to that sort of commentary to support it.

So how would you have dealt with DJ misrepping you OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again. After a while it got a little frustrating. I have a tendency to be bitchy when frustrated. Even sometimes when I'm not frustrated.

[JesseSheffield]

Not anger. Bitchiness maybe but not anger at all.

[JesseSheffield]

I don't feel like getting in a fight about it if people really care THAT much about the precious precious useless doc, but that's my thought. Also it seems like there's a number of people trying not to be noticed today.

That

is noticed.

It would GRATE if you could give us more than just a tease of your suspicions and why you're noting it.

[JesseSheffield]

and I think jesse is trying to draw someone else to make the hammer. He's tunnelled on me a lot, otherwise staying relatively low.

I don't really understand this. You're suggesting that...I'm only voting you for someone else to hammer? And that makes me scum?

[JesseSheffield]

In rereading the thread, I found that the relationship between Robo and Jesse is quite interesting. Robo defends Jesse to the point of distraction, which

could

be him buddying town, but could also be a chainsaw. Jesse barely mentions Robo, aside from the early D2 conversation about his lynching practices (which serves to clear Robo so he won't be accused of policy lynching though he said he didn't do that) and a later comment that Robo should share his information.

Overall, the attack on DJ by Robo feels more like scum Robo buddying town Jesse rather than scum Robo chainsawing for scum Jesse. Right now, my vote would be with Robo.

This actually makes sense to me.

This makes me want to look at some other quiet players, the ones who have stayed out of the way for the most part.

I feel as if there's probably one quiet player per team and one loud player per team. That's just kind of throwing a guess out there but it makes sense to me. I think there's probably only one lurker scum left and the other two are more likely louder players. So I think the players who are suggesting we start picking off the quieter players are most likely scum.

Vote: Zed

I feel that Zed is most likely Lowell's partner. And I actually wouldn't say Zed is one of the quieter players left in the game. Vren and mallow have both been really good at slipping under the radar. I'd say Zed is the last Ice and the Fire team is Robo plus either Vren or mallow.

[JesseSheffield]

Okay then how am I supposed to describe you then Vren? I mean, do you honestly believe you've been in the top half of contributors in this game?

I think Scott's likely town. I have no indication that he's scum and to me he seems like the most logical person in this game, perhaps even including myself. If I had to bet on one person other than myself being town I'd say it's Scott.

[JesseSheffield]

I disagree Vren. Lurking is an under the radar strategy. Just because you haven't been active doesn't mean you haven't been flying under the radar. I don't think you've attracted any attention based on anything you've said. I think your presence (or non-presence) has been what's attracted attention.

But since you're adamant on finding Ice scum, what makes you firmly believe mallow is Ice and not Fire? I've seen your case on why you think he's Ice, and I've got to admit I didn't find it that impressive. Can you make a case on why mallow is more likely Fire scum? So then at least I know you're looking at both sides of the equation.

[JesseSheffield]

Um I'm not sure who you're referring to Zed but I was voting Lowell long before Scott made his case on Lowell. I don't recall Lowell ever actually being off the scum radar. And it's very interesting that you're just now pointing out me being Lowell's partner after I made a case on you.

[JesseSheffield]

So basically because I'm voting you.

[JesseSheffield]

Zed you still haven't explained why my reasoning is bad...

[JesseSheffield]

I don't understand what I'm supposedly misunderstanding here.

[JesseSheffield]

You said you were going to start looking at the quiet players, which is basically averting attention to them away from yourself.

QFT in response to Zed.

And yeah, make a case Zed. Nothing is stopping you from doing so but you seem SO content with just sitting back and letting others do the work for you.

[JesseSheffield]

I'm not really sure if there's anything new for me to say either. I don't see any reason to switch my vote off Zed and onto someone else.

[JesseSheffield]

Hm. I'm not really sure what to think of CKD in this game. I can't say he's said anything that has really struck me as truly inspiring or convincing or anything of the sorts. I'm pretty convinced Robo is scum but I, like I've said earlier, I don't think he's an Ice so I'm sticking with my vote.

[JesseSheffield]

I'll be back soon, sorry for the delay.

[JesseSheffield]

Okay, my apologies. I've been doing this game a disservice. Once Hell's Kitchen is over I'll have a post up.

[JesseSheffield]

Alright so I feel like there are players in this game who aren't really putting in effort, but are quite content with pretending like they are by whining and complaining that others aren't posting, or that they're all frustrated with other players, or by making inane, crazy-ass votes without any valid reasoning. This isn't D1. But I feel like there's a couple players acting like it is. Those players being Robo, CKD, mallow, and Zed. I believe that all four are fakers, and I'm fairly confident all scum are amongst that group. By the end of tonight I'll have a ranking of who I believe is most likely to be scum in that group, what alignment I believe they are, and why.

And in case anyone was wondering I believe, 100%, that Scott's town.

[JesseSheffield]

Excuse me for not divulging my personal matters for your own precious satisfaction Robo. Your incessant need to retaliate against anybody who points their little finger at you, avec good cause or sans good cause, is...charming...to say the least.

I'll be back again before midnight, my time, with a compilation of my thoughts.

[JesseSheffield]

Hm...okay then. Before posting who exactly I believe is scum in which faction I'd like a couple of answers to some questions first. If they're not answered by tomorrow afternoon I'll just post my thoughts anyway because I'm not exactly sure if there'd be any answer worth changing my opinion but let's give it a shot.

1. CKD why did you start the game asking a whole bunch of unnecessary questions that could've been answered by simply reading either a. the rules to the game or b. the thread?

2. Scott I'd like to know how you feel about both the quantity and quality of your posts compared to other players.

3. Zed I want to know what made you believe Mallow was Ice with Lowell when Mallow's actions, to me, nearly confirmed that he the opposing scum faction.

4. And Robo who exactly are you referring to when you use the word "us"? I dare you to try stating "the town" because last time I checked there are two scum left in this game and assuming that you "believe" I'm scum, and you're supposedly town, there can only be two other players you're referring to. Clearly one of those is Zed, so I'd like to know who the other is, CKD or Scott.

[JesseSheffield]

CKD don't play dumb. You're not Empking. You're self-aware enough to know exactly what posts I'm talking about. Don't worry, I have a lot of catching up to do content wise but I aim to do it. But first I'd like to make a few things clear that everybody else is peachy-keen on passing over.

So how about you quit being a hypocrite, when I've already made it clear that I'll be addressing everything else that's happened to so far this game.

[JesseSheffield]

CKD you are playing dumb. You’re playing the “I’ve been running the town in your absence and now that you're back I don’t have to respond to you” card. It’s sophomoric at best. You know very well that I’m referring to your first, third, fourth, and fifth posts of the game.

[JesseSheffield]

Since Scott responded first I'll talk about Scott.

At best I can say Scott's given a half-hearted effort at this game. Right from the beginning he's voting based off voting records which works fine on like D2 but it really doesn't say that much about anything. It doesn't provide any logical insight on any other players and is kind of like a default vote and can hide true intentions easily. He really hasn't pushed anything heavily on a player and to me, that shows that he really doesn't have anything to lose in this game. He responds to pressure from other players appropriately and is content with lynching the biggest target on his radar and that's it. I think he's playing a safe town game and I can't see him being on either scum team. Scott is town.

[JesseSheffield]

You =Scum Number 1.
My choice for number two actuallly is Zed. But i'm not really all for that so I haven't really came out with that. Thats only if, 'If you could lynch two people right now, who would it be" kinda thing".

Why the heck did you assume I thought Zed was town. I very much think CKD and Scott Brosius are town and Zed is scum. Zed has just given me a bad vibe. not enough to push his lynch. I don't usually go off gut. But if I think You are scum and CKD and scott are town and since I know I'm town. PoE = Zed is other scum.

So. Stop assuming things. And may I ask, where are the magical scum reads you speak of. i would be delighted to hear it. It seems that if you think I'm town, you were just trying to find out who I was against in order to keep them alive to persuade me to do your bidding in a lyLo situation. So, who do you think is scum? And for once, please just answer the questions without avoiding them first.

Hmmm well that's interesting. Because there'd really be only one reason you'd not trust that Zed is telling the truth, and if that's the case then you surely would've have had some sort of comment to make about his claim. So either make your case (any case really will do since you've got nothing) on Zed, or you're lying and Zed/I are not your scum suspects. It'd be interesting to hear also why you believe CKD/Scott are town.

As for you CKD, those are all irrelevant points. The questions you asked at the beginning of the game were not relevant because any logical Mafia player would've already deduced all of it. And as for making the scum "realize" anything, that's just plain crap. They'd have no reason to listen to you, it doesn't make any sense. So what I want to know is why, right from the beginning, you're attempting to lead conversation in an unproductive manner. Like you're currently doing right now. Because sitting around pouting "you're not scumhunting!" is going back to right where you started when I came back in, playing dumb. It's attempting to deride a player's credibility by illogically claiming they're not doing anything. The only players who gain an advantage from that type of play, is scum. No town players play that way.

So to answer your question Robocopter, you and CKD are scum.

[JesseSheffield]

Do you think we could confirm people by checking who Zed protected? Or is that a bad idea? I mean, its a possibility that we could catch scum by this idea, seeing the amout of Saves/crosskills. Whichever. I mean, it probably wouldn't be 100% confirmed but It still is valuable info.

I really have felt a strong gut read for Scoot. Thats really all I have for him being town. I don't see much scum in him. If push came to shove though, he probably fallls into the PoE.

CKD, however, has been an active particaipant in this game. His play has been all towny like.

No I think that's a bad idea. Considering there's two scum teams we cannot confirm players as town based on who he protected and it may also highlight Zed's trends. Because his save is going to be more and more important as we wind down.

And they both can't be town Robo. If you believe I'm scum then at least one of them has to be scum. I know you're hesitant to burn a bridge because that's what you've been all about this game, highlighting one player and attempting to rid of them before they rid of you, so now it's time you stop playing the middle man and do something.

[And my whole case wasn't based on Mallow and Lowell looking like scum partners, Mallow had suspicious behavior on his own.

I just wanted to know why you believe Mallow was Ice and not Fire because I did not see it that way.

how do you know they wouldnt listen to me.

Because you don't matter CKD. Because if you were actually town, scum wouldn't care about your opinion, and on top of that it's a sign of scum arrogance. Town players do not play as you have done this game. They do not attempt to run the town, and they do not attempt to discredit/lynch anybody who disrupts their predetermined order. It's not town play.

also, where in the rules was my question about 1v1v1 at?...did you already know that? if so how?

Then go bother the mod with that question when it wasn't relevant to the game at that point instead of attempting to distract everybody.

because I got your scummy ass backed against a wall.

That isn't my issue. Vote and reasoning on why both CKD and Robo are scum to come later. CKD you haven't asked a relevant question that I haven't answered.

[JesseSheffield]

UM. Yeah. You're right CKD. I haven't spent any time explaining why I think Scott is town.

At best I can say Scott's given a half-hearted effort at this game. Right from the beginning he's voting based off voting records which works fine on like D2 but it really doesn't say that much about anything. It doesn't provide any logical insight on any other players and is kind of like a default vote and can hide true intentions easily. He really hasn't pushed anything heavily on a player and to me, that shows that he really doesn't have anything to lose in this game. He responds to pressure from other players appropriately and is content with lynching the biggest target on his radar and that's it. I think he's playing a safe town game and I can't see him being on either scum team. Scott is town.

[JesseSheffield]

What's your case on me Robo. It's about time you posted one, and how about you too CKD.

And if I'm scum #1, who's #2?

[JesseSheffield]

If you want to hear my reasoning then you go back and read the thread.

I don't know who is number two yet. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. But first I'm lynching number 1. (Well, trying to lynch number 1, no one is really helping out besides CKD.)

Oh I'm sorry. Let me rephrase to make this clearer for you. COMPETENT reasoning. And yeah, this is the one reason I'd be more willing to lynch you over CKD, because you're so afraid to burn someone else's bridge that it might actually work out in your favor. The reason why you CAN'T even name a number 2 is because you know, no matter what, it's going to be incorrect.

[JesseSheffield]

about a page behind, but I am curious, jesse, why isnt your vote on me already...that would put me at -1.

Because CKD, unlike you, I'm not looking for the quickest/easiest lynch out to save myself. I'm trying to decide which one of you or Robo is more dangerous to keep around during the night phase, a.k.a. which one of you is going to be able to evade Zed's save and get a NK in.

And no Robo, I have a problem with how poor your reasoning behind me being scum is.

Also, I must say this right here,

I think we should take our time with this day, and not rush a hammer. Let everyone look at all the players, no matter how sure you are that so-and-so is scum. We have a week, so let's use it.

Has cemented my town read on you. Just sayin'. I'm not buddying. I'm just sayin'

Because that unchallenged doc claim wasn't enough. Just sayin'.

[JesseSheffield]

Vote: CKD

I'm not sure if I've ever played with someone phonier than you. Town players just don't play like this. They don't beg and plead from other player, they don't go for the quickest/easiest lynch they can, and they don't throw out little appeals left and right hoping someone catches up on them. I have little faith that Robo is smart enough to work around Zed's save but you, you're a slimy one. And you just might be able to.

[JesseSheffield]

Really CKD? Go meta me. I've said it multiple times.

[JesseSheffield]

That's not my job CKD. It's not my job to make others "believe" what I want them to believe. My job is to find scum, lynch scum, and if people don't listen then that's not my problem. And how about you go find it yourself if you're that interested.

[JesseSheffield]

Umm, yes it is your job, you have to present a case otherwise your "scumhunting" won't do anything at all.

You cant just call someone scum. That just doesn't work out. Its totally worthless. Nobody will listen to you. You can't lynch people all on your own Jesse.

So your argument is invalid.

And you know that's exactly how scum would think. Because scum know that they have to convince others to believe their lies. A town player doesn't have that opportunity because they don't truly KNOW who's on their team. But it's great to really know what type of anti-town mindpath you have in this game.

didnt think I would call you on this bluff......

CKD you brought it up, not me. So actually it's more of me calling you on your bluff of an unsubstantiated comment. Nice try at flipping it around though.

[JesseSheffield]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, you make me sick.

[JesseSheffield]

The fact that someone would even mention hammering themselves is a) the dumbest thing I've ever heard and b) what makes me sick. You know I've seen a lot of shitty Mafia play in my time, but people hammering themselves is like #1 on my list of things I hate in a Mafia player. It's fucking ridiculous.

CKD- YOU MADE THE CLAIM. I did not make the claim. You need to substantiate yourself, not the other way around.

And there goes Robo ^^^ showing the brilliance he's shown all game.

[JesseSheffield]

I know you two are all pissy because neither of you actually have a case on me. But this little desperation attempt is not mine to substantiate, it's yours CKD. You can't change fact.

[JesseSheffield]

*Again not impressed with the desperation posts*

[JesseSheffield]

Yes Robo, I'm avoiding it by bringing it up in every post. If anything I'm just enabling poor Mafia play on CKD's end. The correct question would be "why are you not giving CKD an easy way out?" And the answer to that would be it's great to see just how flimsy both of your cases on me are, that you're so desperate for SOMETHING to attack me with that you're resorting to this. It's perf, amazing.

[JesseSheffield]

Last time I'm going to state it because this is just getting retarded- You made the claim, you need to back yourself up. Not the other way around.

Doesn't really matter though because you don't have a case anyways.

[JesseSheffield]

Clearly you didn't actually look then.

As for squirming? Um, yeah, there has been no squirming? It's amazing how consistently you manage to turn things that are NOT happening into random ass statements. Well, I guess it does make sense considering you have no case in the first place.

[JesseSheffield]

You can start by looking at Open 204: Friends and Enemies.

[JesseSheffield]

Ahhh I way underestimated you Zed. Good play.

[JesseSheffield]

Um we had been targeting the other scum team during our NK's but Robo was getting protected.

[JesseSheffield]

Not that I'd really have to defend my play to you of all people lol.

[JesseSheffield]

no need to defend..

i got your meta, when you refuse to answer questions when you get backed into a wall you are scum..

when you go for the insults...you are scum..

got it.

All you had to do was meta me, easy. And I never insulted anyone.

But again, Zed did pretty great.

[JesseSheffield]

For the record you didn't back me into a corner CKD. If you'd actually meta'd me you would've known I was correct so either a) you're lying or b)...actually that's pretty much it lol.

[JesseSheffield]

aw, thanks Jesse. It's nice to be recognized

Credit is due where credit is owed yo lol.

And LOL to CKD who still can't do work himself.