Fringe Mafia (Game Over, role PMs posted)

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/confirm

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Vote doomunny

he gives himself away in his avatar, I mean come on,

Killer

Rabbits

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unvote. Vote: Furcolow

No Lynch is anti-town

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And why I say no lynch is anti town, now I don't have figures for the entire site, in newbie games when NL happens, mafia wins > 80% of the time

no lynch provides no useable vote comparison cause

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Aww shucks, I love you too man

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Vote: Hop

For making up statistics

orly?

http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13969

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Furclow, if I saw data that shows mafia benefits nl more than town, why would town be neutral?

Granted it's a small data set but do you really want to test it?

Lynching somebody, even if the flip is town gives HARD vote count to analyze
vote to NL will give us nothing to analyze

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am i still voting for no lynch?
did i expect no lynch to pass?
do you read?

i expect 3 answers

1. Doesn't matter you voted it
2. How would I know, I can't read minds
3. Yes I read but you directed a comment about NL to me so that was me responding, I'm on my iPhone so I didnt quote the entire post

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ok, and you completely dodged the real question
would my partners let me do that?

Typically scum can't day talk so this point is invalid

I doubt pre-game you would say. "hey guys I'm gonna suggest a No lynch"

so for now my vote stays but it's still rvs IMO so I may change it.

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Truth looks fake?

Ever mafia I have been, no day talk allowed, even on other sites.

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Yeah reading the rules would be helpful

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unvote

I am not sold on furc as mafia, if anything we got some discussion going and that is good. I am of to bed so I will read up on the discussion that took place.

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@ Doom - cause I just think he isn't a very good player, I could see his NL suggestion being town motivated, I used to be a fan of NLs until recently, than seeing that data just sealed it

NL teaches us nothing at all

the vote on furc seems to just be an easy out, plus I need to catch up on what has been posted to see if furc has done anything extremely scummy, claiming early isn't mafia motivated either, just vi motivated

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Such an obscure charachter

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Whoa, this exploded when I missed checking up on it last night.

First of all, HOMJ seems quick to push votes early against Fur for the NL. However, that wagon seems to go way too early, with not much reason why. Emp's and Doombunny's votes seem like they could be good scum wagon votes, but it's impossible to tell because Fur seems a bit too eager to defend himself. And the claim. He's too afraid of getting lynched so he's willing to claim at L-3. I want to hear more about his claim, and why he's so eager to defend himself at L-3. I wouldn't vote him just for going for the NL, esepcially if it seemed early in RVS.

do you fail at reading? I ask cause you say I am quick to push votes however I never push votes. I voted furclow for voting no lynch, I provided my reasoning as why NL is not a town move.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia (of course I could be wrong)

You also say that his wagon seems to go away too early but actually nobody has removed them from his wagon but me, and when I unvoted, somebody else joined it so that is a misrepresentation of facts.

and if you are town and somebody suggested something anti-town like a no lynch, why would you not vote them just for that? NL is anti town, it removes the need to scum hunt and anyone pushing for a no lynch should be voted.

and before anyone questions why I just made that comment and am not currently voting for furc, I unvoted because he indicated he wasn't serious about the NL and also his lynch just seems to convenient, about as easy as a no lynch, and it would eliminate the need for real scum hunting.

We are just a few days in on the game,let's scum hunt and talk about other people before rushing to lynch. So for right now just based on the misrep of facts

vote nocmen

something about him just rubs me the wrong way, I feel he is acting like he is town

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Umm yeah acting like town is not being town, town doesn't have to act like they are

and nocman was the one saying his wagon was falling apart to soon , hence why I said rushing to lynch

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Whoa, this exploded when I missed checking up on it last night.

First of all, HOMJ seems quick to push votes early against Fur for the NL. However, that wagon seems to go way too early, with not much reason why.

Emp's and Doombunny's votes seem like they could be good scum wagon votes, but it's impossible to tell because Fur seems a bit too eager to defend himself. And the claim. He's too afraid of getting lynched so he's willing to claim at L-3. I want to hear more about his claim, and why he's so eager to defend himself at L-3. I wouldn't vote him just for going for the NL, esepcially if it seemed early in RVS.

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Umm yeah acting like town is not being town, town doesn't have to act like they are

and nocman was the one saying his wagon was falling apart to soon , hence why I said rushing to lynch

So your position is that scum acts like town, and town doesn't? I don't see anywhere where Nocmen says his wagon was falling apart to soon, could you please quote that for me? Also, someone worrying a wagon falling apart does not equal rushing to a lynch.

yes my position is scum wants to ACT like town, town should not be concerned how they are acting cause they know they are town.

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I read that quote as "the wagon got going really fast, but there wasn't much reasoning behind it". This interpretation is supported by the rest of the post.

yes my position is scum wants to ACT like town, town should not be concerned how they are acting cause they know they are town.

We all know that town is concerned with scum hunting and scum wants to look town, but why does that make it a scum tell for someone to seem like they are town? I agree that going out of your way to try to get townie points, like Fur seems to have done, is scummy, but Nocmen hasn't done that. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a duck. Occam's Razor applies here.

1. maybe I misread his statement wrong

2. I think that it was more of the fact that he hasn't posted all game and than came with 2 posts, like I said i just got a feeling, it wasn't much but it is early in the game.

I do agree that furc is scummy but I have seen him in other games be scummy and is VT. I spent most week on my phone so I will re-read tomorrow all the way through and see what I can come up with.

Furc has done some scummy moves this game so I will probably vote him again if I don't pick up on something else

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I unvoted him before he claimed, he claimed while nor being close to a lynch, right now out of everyone that is the most scummy behavior I have detected so yes I would go back to him because that has cemented enough to be scum, however you purposely trying to twist everything I say and do into a negative way is being noted for future reference

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what the hell is this straw man crap?

I am entitled to change my mind also

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I unvoted him before he claimed, he claimed while nor being close to a lynch, right now out of everyone that is the most scummy behavior I have detected so yes I would go back to him because that has cemented enough to be scum, however you purposely trying to twist everything I say and do into a negative way is being noted for future reference

You don't seem as much of an issue with Fur's claim here:

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

First you say that mafia wouldn't be obvious about this and have doubts about him and now its the most scummy thing you've seen and he's now voteworthy for it. WUT? I can't imagine this being something you've just changed your mind about so quickly either.

FoS: HOMJ

I said that is the most scummiest thing done so far in the game, do i think mafia would be so stupid to be obvious,

no i don't

Have i seen mafia be obvious like that in the past,

yes I have, cause sometimes mafia can be dumb

If I have nothing else to go on than yeah i will lynch furclow but right now I haven't even been looking deep into other people's posts and I think that is why I am so confused right now.

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Reading back here are my notes on everyone

Zang needs to be prodded, replaced, or just lynched.

TonyMontana needs to be more involved in the conversation of the game instead of just making useless posts, he has had only one serious game related post and that was his vote

sorasgoof - also needs to start participating, none of his posts have really been useful and just seems like words with no content

Shattered - even before he announced he was V/LA I thought he probabl was cause he hasn't posted anything of value

Nocman - has only one of his 3 posts are game related and that one posts seems awfully political, I now need to look if emp and bunny responded to his accusation that their votes on furc looked like scum votes. I think if someone is accusing them of scum they should at the very least comment on it.

LordChronos - he seems to lurk into the backround and comes out of nowhere once he finds somebody else to attack, I say that if furc is scum, I would give Lord my look as being his scum buddy. He is trying to direct the attention off of furc and direct it towards me on a very weak case.

GhostWriter - yet another inactive person that needs prodded or replaced

foilist13 - needs to be replaced or prodded, 1st post he claims his role (if he is telling the truth) which is very odd

Empking - has completely avoided any type of scum hunting

Doombunny - At first it looked like he was serious about scum hunting but ruins all credibility when he FOS's inactives. instead of FOS'ing them he shoudl request they get prodded. he does FOS me and I adimit I probably deserve to be FOS'd because I changed my mind, if changing my mind is scummy than yeah FOS me, but I personally don't think changing my mind is scummy.

furclow - now here is something interesting, remember what I said about Lord Chronos? Furc's first REAL vote was for.... Lord Chronos and the rest of his posts are defense posts and attempts to show he is pro-town

The problem with me is I have seen so many VIs get lynched on day one being town and it is just something people on this site like to do. Furclow does look like he is trying hard to seem he is pro town which makes him scummy but I have also read some of his games briefly and he is just a really poor player. After reading through I am pretty sure Andrew and Lord are scum buddies, but I think if furc flipps town, Lord is still a good option being scum.

You guys want to FOS me for flip flopping go ahead, but you if you have an open mind furclow is A. scum trying to act town or B. VI trying to save himself and he is town.

he is very confusing and because of that and because his flip will help me know more about Lord Chronos

Vote furclow

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Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

well it is hard to get a positive read on anyone when they don't post but right now, nope I don't any positive reads on anyone.

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Holy wall of text batman, I'll read up on this when not on my phone

not voting for lc cause I think Its more if furc is maf than lc is, not sure what lc is if furc flipps town

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@Empking

Then you should actually vote HOMJ, because he defended Fur with WIFOM, made a straw man argument to justify his vote, backtracked on his view of Fur when he was attacked on it, and made a ultra paranoid PBPA.

1. Did not really defend him
2. Straw man is new to me but doubt it is anti town
3. Change of opinion =/= back tracking
4. Pushing me now after I linked you to furc and not commenting on my link of you to is classic deflection
5. Not sure what pbpa is but I'm assuming you mean giving my reads on people in the game, had nothing to do with paranoia.

I have no reason to be paranoid and these votes on me are just silly.

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1.

I later unvoted cause I have read up on furc's games a little and I see how he plays and lynching him to me seems to be more of a policy lynch, people are voting him just because they latched on to one thing he did.

of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but

I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia

(of course I could be wrong)

That sure sounds like defending Furc to me. Especially the bold.
2. Straw man is very scummy.
3. But Furc did nothing to change your opinion. The only thing that happened between your first opinion and your second was you coming under pressure.
4. I pushed you before you tried to link me to Furc, so I am not deflecting. I am pursuing my case against you. And your attack against me comes off as being completely OMGUS.
5. PBPA is player-by-player analysis. I wasn't saying that it was paranoid to make the PBPA, I meant your opinions you gave were paranoid. See your read of me for and example.

my read on you is pretty damn spot on and I proved it when I got down to furc and saw he voted you. this was classic mafia voting mafia imo.

as for wifom defense, I guess you have a point but it was just coincidental.

Basically this is me on furc

1. I voted him cause NL was scummy, I didn't think his NL was RVS voting, but now hindsight I guess it could be.
2. This site has made me more cautious with lynching people like furc, because he belongs to the same group of people like Andrew, Shotty, David Parker, and some would say I belong in that group (I disagree with myself cause I have never and will never fake claim a power role if I am vanilla townie, and the others in that group including furc have) that being said these guys are almost always lynched day 1 because they are just crappy players and come off scummy almost every game.

That was the reason I unvoted him, I just don't want to be part of a furc wagon so early in the game

3. looking through the game mostly due to inactivity, there really hasn't been anyone else standing out as scum. I am cautious of these people who have been inactive and than come back in and vote for somebody (even if it is for me, if they voted for someone else I would be cautious) The reason why I find these people odd because in my mind they can be

a. townies who have not really followed the game and based on their limited catching up think they have seen something scummy
b. mafia like a shark, somebody has found a new person slightly scummy so they come in and attack and throw in a vote

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

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@HOMJ- I asked you two questions in my last post. Feel like answering?

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

Is everyone going to do this when they have enough pressure on them? XD It didn't work for Fur and its not going to work for you

I missed your questions, will look for them now

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1. I can't remember when exactly I changed my mind
2. FOS'ing inactives serves no purpose, because they are inactive and can't tell they are being FOS'd

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@HOMJ- I asked you two questions in my last post. Feel like answering?

I completely understand people finding my actions slightly scummy but I can assure you I am not scum.

Is everyone going to do this when they have enough pressure on them? XD It didn't work for Fur and its not going to work for you

oh and this 2nd part, you realize that people who are pro-town will do this also, are you always going to assume anyone who says that is scum?

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I think I began changing my mind when he name claimed, such an obscure name seems more like a safe name claim to me and not his actual name

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Ok so looks like I missed a post by noc and he says something very wrong.

@noc - you say I vote furc and almost immediately unvote him

do you always make up information or is this your first time?

I voted furc on page 1, for the NL

I unvoted him on page 3 and 40 posts later, how is that almost immediately?

Also not a huge deal cause I understan weekends and such but technically you lied again saying you have said that your access on the weekend is limited, you never say any such thing.

Also my vote on you was just to get you more active, people will tend to come and play if they have a vote on them.

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@LC

I went back and read and your straw man accusation failed as I never twisted anything noc said

I did misread one aspect of his post, I thought when he said" the wagon went too fast" he meant "the wagon went away too fast"

but he still lied when he said I pushed for his lynch, cause I never pushed for his lynch

right now I have caught noc in 2 pretty big lies and one minor one

for those at home the lies

1. I pushed furc's lynch - never pushed anything
2. I voted and quickly unvoted - 12 hours and 40 posts is not pushing
3. Said he posted his activity is limited, he never does - minor lie to possibly excuse his lurking but the Internet issue can be real so that is why I am mostly ignoring this one

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@did you read where noc said rushing to lynch, not me?

When I voted him he said I was pushing furc's lynch which was misrepresenting facts

the other part of it was left purposefully vague cause I have been told on 2 differen games on site that you don't say it is a pressure vote or it won't be effective, so I followed that advice here. Clearly it worked cause he did become active

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Also you still don't get it

if you are town, you don't have to act like it cause you are town

acting town is pretending to be town, which would mean he isn't town

also p. Sure noc can defend himself, not sure why you are fighting his battles

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You are attacking me for attacking noc, it's a defensive attack.

Find where I said "rushing to lynch"

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Ok I see where I say rushing to lynch and that came from the part where I read his post wrong, when I thought he was saying furc's wagon was falling apart too quickly, which I have already said earlier I read it wrong. Also
that can really be directed at everyone not just noc cause we don't need to rush to a lynch

straw man, still don't think you have the defiition right cause I don't think I did, if I did it was unintentional

also town AND scum use wifom in this game, seen it hundreds of time so it really isn't a clear cut scum tell

and Im not defending anyone, you on the otherhand are attacking me for going after noc a bit.

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No a good town player doesn't have to act like anything

his whole thing with me was just his 2nd post and started off with a lie (saying I pushed furc's lynch)

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You still haven't answered my question. And I never said you were defending anyone right now, though you were defending Fur earlier.

Where was my defense of him?

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1. Since I'm on my phone most of the time I disable sig's
2. Voting someone is not pushing a lynch, pushing a lynch is trying to convince others to vote him which I haven't. I still don't think you are clear noc but at the time when I had time to re-read from my pc, furc looks better and like I said earlier, furc lynch will let me know what to think of LC, although now I'm left wondering what kind of relationship you and him have cause he jumped on me close to when I voted you, which is a very telling sign.
3. Yes now I want to lynch furc, which is why I am voting him, reading back and getting to loom at the wiki pages this name is too odd to be a regular charachter. Also I had missed he was asking about safe name claims, why if he was town would he care to ask, especially if I'm not mistaken it says so on the front page they do.
4. I need to stop playing on my phone, you guys type too much

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To update what I was trying to say, I don't see where you were vague in your vote for me. You gave reasons. But now you're saying they don't matter and it was a pressure vote in disguise? What do you think of those reasons now, do they still stay?
On top of that, a strawman attack is basically that, taking words and misinterpreting them into your favor. That seems exactly what you did.
Between that, and comparing your vote on furc compared to what you say about him, I'm happy with keeping my vote on you.

I was vague when talking about the gut feeling
I don't think I twisted anyone's words and if I did, I already said it was unintentional
I still FOS you cause of the reasons I said, I was never gonna push a lynch for you until I had something more concrete

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Oh and as stated twice already the accused straw man was when I said rush to lynch cause I misread noc's statement, I have explained 2 or 3 times how I wrongly interpreted it

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Sorry to interupt but it just dawned on me

furc, someone asked you a question about your role to go with your name, you plan on answering him?

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Yeah I realize that it's easy for someone to say that but it is the truth

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You mean when I use common sense, common sense is defending scum?

Sometimes when scum hunting you have to use wifom.

I ask myself all the time, if I was scum would I do that? That is how I scum hunt, not sure what other method I can use to catch scum than try to use scum mentality and town mentality when trying to determine motive

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Unvote

Vote: Hop

The two of them have been the scummiest to me for a long time but since they're balanced I feel that Noc's reasoning pushed Hop ahead of Furc.

You realized noc has lied twice already, you follow liars normally?

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Let me get to a pc to answer that

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Can someone link the post where furc used wifom please

thx

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ok thanks.

ok the WIFOM argument is depending on how it is used and I actually don't consider what I said WIFOM, especially when comparing it to what he has said.

his example there - Do you think my partners would let me vote no lynch? Don't you believe I would be trying to ask their advice?

my accused wifom - of course he isn't helping himself by claiming early and asking about mafia fake claims and such, but I really don't think he would be that obvious if he were mafia (of course I could be wrong)

I can see how my statement can be considered WIFOM and even defending but it really was me using the information available to me at the time asking myself would I be acting like him as mafia, and I came to the conclusion of no. Now everyone ask yourself, if you were mafia would you be acting like furc?

where furc's statement is almost the epitome of WIFOM, now using my own logic, if I don't think I would use that statement at all even if I was mafia, but I sure as hell would not use that if I were town.

At this point in the game I know my tactics may be not what you guys are used to but my example of WIFOM defense is not even close to the level of scummyness that furclow used.

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The case on furc is way more solid than the case on me, furc's wifom was HORRIBLE, where as mine realy isn't wifom but more common sense reasoning

mentioning scum buddies is a huge red flag, I really can't beleive it didn't hit me when I first saw it.

Not sure what I can say at this point to take votes off me but I assure you I am 100% town.

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Yeah I'd be interested in hearing furc, especially since he has gone quiet

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So you say your version of wifom isn't scummy? I disagree
You feel the need to name claim but not role claim? If you are gonna clai
you have to claim everything, else we think you are using your safe claim. I don't care if you role claim, I still thinkyou are the best lynch
You are OMGUS voting me? You are voting me cause I'm voting you, that's omgus

Also why ignor bunny's request?

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no, i asked you to say HOW it is scummy
explain

you strawman SO MUCH.

it's scummy cause you are trying to distance yourself from mafia, implying you are not mafia. It's day 1 and there was no need to even go to that extreme. You could have easily just denied being scummy and than change your vote by saying you didn't realize NL was anti-town

Fine voting me is self preservation but you hop on my wagon (no pun intended) without making a case on me, you just jump on the largest wagon. Make a case before voting don't just do it cause the largest wagon is conveinent.

I also am pro-town so you voting me is just as bad as my vote on you (using your logic)

the difference is I feel no pressure to claim, I still think I can convince people voting me is wrong. You clearly felt you had to claim at L-3 when nobody even asked you to, you through it out and asked if we wanted a claim

How is that town mentality ?
How I'd voting without making a case, town mentality?

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you strawman by not answering questions, or only answering some of them
you have used WIFOM worse than me
you flip flopped from attacking me to defending me to attacking me
you have been flailing for about 3 pages now

the case on me is honestly "durrr he voted no lynch in RVS durr" "OMG HE USED WIFOM AS DEFENSE"

wifom is null in my eyes. sorry people like EMPKING disagree.

1. That isn't straw man, learn the definition
2. Your wifom is far worse than mine
3. My vote on you was during rvs also, I unvoted when I thought you were being typical furc, than you did more stuff to make me think you were scum
4. I don't think I am flailing, I'm defending myself while trying to catch scum. If I am flailing it's flailing as town

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furthermore, you saying you're "pro-town" doesn't mean I know you're pro-town, therefore i don't know to not vote you; i don't know it's anti-town to vote you

your logic is flawed

you are our lynch

You realize you are basically using the same logic, saying you are a mislynch. How does anyone know you are town othere than you say so

I just used your own logic so if mine is flawed so is yours

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my wifom is fact
scum wouldnt let me do that
therefore it is "better" than yours. i would consider it NULL compared to yours, though, not "better". wifom is null all around. yours is just less so than normal.

nice AtE btw

How can you say it's fact ?
I'll say it a billion times AtE isn't a scum tell

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Zang, I finally got time to re-read that post where you voted for me and I have questions. - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2612941

if I missed anything please let me know.



1. you say NL is not anti-town, tell me how a no lynch can ever benefit from the town when vote analysis is thrown out of the window and it gives mafia a free kill

2. why are you defending his vote for a NL, whether or not he expected it or not, no lynch suggestion should never be made, it is anti-town. even if it is rvs but it didn't even seem like an rvs vote to me

3. you also say I was pushing andrew's wagon but I never actually pushed for his wagon, why would you say that? - if you feel doom and TM's votes on hm are weak, why are you not directing your attention to him also instead of just at me?

4. yes he does suggest no lynch when he votes for it and why would you not vote for somebody who suggests something anti-town? you said there is a difference between anti-town and scummy and you are right. Anti-town is not town, scummy is bad but scummy =/= anti-town. If someone sugested something anti-town I definitely would go after them for it. why would you not? and how is not going after somebody suggesting anti-town helping town?

5. I skipped the part where you asked which games I read, I will have to go back and find those if you really want me to, sorry I didn't do that earlier. Also Iunvoted him because I thought based on his meta he was furc being furc, but the more I re-read and read other games I found that not to be true, the clincher was the claim too early, obscure name, and failure to throw in the role. if you are going to claim you go all or nothing.

6. yes I realize I unvoted him when he asked, but he had not done it yet. asking if he can and actually doing it without someone asking him to claim are 2 different things. Claim should be done at L-1 and typically when someone asks for it, now because of the other site I play, if I get to L-1 I will claim without being asked because I have been hammered more times than I can count without given a chance to claim and sadly I have hammered people without allowing them to claim and been town when I did it.

7. how do you seem so sure foilist wasn't serious

8. I thought mod would pick up on my comment and just do it, if I was a mod I would not wait til somebody bolded the request.

9. I actually think you are wrong, I think it is more if furc is scum than LC is possibly scum with him.

10 . I never understood why you voted me without a reason, you ask me a bunch of questions but you never actually say ANYTHING about me being scummy and what exactly is scummy about it. also if you ask people questions don't you think they deserve proper time to respond before voting them? is that proper town mentality to ask a bunch of questions and vote them in the same post? if so than this site truely is strange.

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at zang, one more thing. why a FOS at furc and not a vote or at the very least an unvote?

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Lord, you really think both fur and I are scum together?

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I wasn't twisting, I was asking, wow pot calling kettle black on that one

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Lord said -If I had the power to lynch HOMJ and Fur

he said AND not OR

meaning if he could we would both be lynched, thsts why I asked if he thinks we both are scum

so now how do you explain your twisting noc?

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Also noc, how can you really have nothing to say about furc's "whining" as you put it, really? You can't say anything?

opens window, throwing out nocman's credibility

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Oh and before the OMG YOU ARE TWISTING MY WORDS

you said you are "not sure what to say" than you direct him to your previous post, and take another dig at me

so you look like you are distancing yourself from his wagon when he has posted even more scummy behavior (this is my interpretation)

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Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

And one last bit if fact and I'll let people have time to respond, besides coming after me agressive once i voted him, noc has not made any comments to furc or about his case with the exception of the one I quoted. If 5 people so far think he is scummy, how can mr. Noc who has seemed so credible pushing my lynch, completely ignore the largest wagon of the game?

It almost seems noc doesn't want to be involved with a furc lynch but doesn't ever speak out for or against it, other than whatever he says in this quoted post.

Quite interesting if you ask me. His attack on me is looking more and more like an omgus attack instead of a town trying to scum hunt attack, but again I am biased so I'm curious what others think.

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Furc: Let me get this straight, you vote for HOMJ, go through a trade of posts with him, and unvote him based on meta, correct?
You do realize that your arguments against him are much of the same that he has against you? Your play seems quite similar to his, but you only appear when you're called out it seems. A bit too convenient for my liking.
You say that HOMJ should be our lynch, but as mentioned just above, why not you when you have the same argument, and seem much less cooperative with your answering?
Voting NL being WIFOM is one of the biggest loads of "crap" that I've seen in a while. That is the only main cornerstone difference between your defense over HOMJ's.

And one last bit if fact and I'll let people have time to respond, besides coming after me agressive once i voted him, noc has not made any comments to furc or about his case with the exception of the one I quoted. If 5 people so far think he is scummy, how can mr. Noc who has seemed so credible pushing my lynch, completely ignore the largest wagon of the game?

It almost seems noc doesn't want to be involved with a furc lynch

but doesn't ever speak out for or against it, other than whatever he says in this quoted post.

Quite interesting if you ask me. His attack on me is looking more and more like an omgus attack instead of a town trying to scum hunt attack, but again I am biased so I'm curious what others think.

ok, take this into consideration.

if i am scum, and he is scum, he would pretty much know i was going to be lynched and bus me
if i was scum, and he was town, he wouldn't care to vote me
if i was town, and he was scum, though, he wouldn't want to be associated with a mislynch.

Caution below I am typing as if each scenario provided by furc is true

1. Not necessarily, especially if he thought he could convince people to lynch me instead which was working until you just couldn't shut up and convinced town you were the right lynch (if anything if this is true, you have just prevented him from voting you cause now people will wonder if he is bussing)

2. If this was true, he definitly would be keeping his option open and be commenting on both cases, pro-town players I don't think would ignore both wagons, ecpecially the largest one and the one that started first. He has completely avoided any serious discussion of it which looks like distancing.

3. Yes now you got it, if this was true he would not want a mislynch so he would either be trying to defend you or ignoring the wagon all together.

so based on your explanation, technically all 3 still are possible, now I would like nocman to explain his reasoning why he has stayed away from your wagon.

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I am not pressuring him to vote you, I am pressuring him to make a comment about the case, even when others read the posts the past few days some people have things to day, he again says nothing. I personally feel that ignoring almost everything you say is not a pro-town mentality.

the only problem is I don't know if it's distancing cause you are scum or cause you are town, but i am 100% sure it is distancing. I am also pretty sure you are not a mislynch.

Also your role claim doesn't make sense, can you maybe explain it better?

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trust me I am glad you are voting for furc but earlier in the post you said you were going to go look and see if this is how he typically defends himself but yet you vote him putting him at L-1

if you were going to go do research on someone wouldn't you hold off voting for them until you did the research you said you were going to do?

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didn't you know, Doom thinks he is running shit.

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dang furc, where do you live that you wake up and it is night time where I am at

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yeah I believe SV has implied he is restricted from talking or something.

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I think if he does have some sort of restriction, it has to be tied to a charachter in the show but i can't think of anyone that would fit the bill in the fringe show

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I have been told to post more than everyone (kidding)

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Well furc hasn't shown up. Interesting to say the least

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well clearly it has been a while and he isn't talking

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furc has not logged in since the 10th btw so I see we could be waiting a while

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not controversial when he has been scummy all game and he has hinted at a role that makes no damn sense, but he does has a history of fake claiming roles

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Why are we lynching this early in the day without so much as a claim?

Wow you win the Oscar with that performance.

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Vote: Furcolow

I agree that his claim probably wouldn't help him and his lynch will probably reveal the most about the game. HOMJ can be lynched tomorrow.

That be a REALLY bad move, town needs me alive.

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oh, i'm dead, sorry.
mafia were on my wagon yo
i was going to actually scumhunt now. sucks that i don't get to since i'm dead.

you realize you should have done this like when you were at L-3 instead of claiming

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ok so I am newer to this site so my knowledge of how game setups are over here isn't very good but where I play and games I mod, a game this size I would have mafia and SK

mafia uses gun and SK uses knife so if I take what I am accustom to, we have a SK kill but no mafia kill, but it's possible there is no SK in this game. Since I can't seem to find completed theme games anywhere maybe someone can clue me in to what is the norm on this site.

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Search for nocman

Nope, nice try though.

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Vote: Hop

- Same as yesterday plus set up speculation.

Same as yesterday what?

And WTF is wrong with setup speculation, that's not anti-town.

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Well I'll give props to mafia, killing my number one suspect and my number 2 is missing really makes me look more guilty. I'll re-read later to see who I think is scummy but for not, mr. Post restriction I feel could be a fake gambit but I'll hold of on voting till I re-read day 1

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vote zany

he could have waited for furclow to come and post one more time.

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vote zang

damn iPhone auto-correct

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I wonder if everyone is over in the alternate universe lol

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And sometime before this game is over, I'd really like to know why setup speculation is bad, an informed town can make better decisions

and since aparantly I'm the only one with Internet access, I'll just go and say that 2 wrongs don't make a right

furc and I were basically accused of the same shit and he was town, I know my credibility is shot but eventually you guys will reakiza that Wifom and AtE ate not scum tells and lynching me will result in another townie dead.

That being said I know I'm the easy lynch but I assure you I am pro-town through and through.

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Fair enough, the style of play is different here for sure, much smarter than the morons I play with on glb

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It nay be considered weak but that plus his limited activity yet monster walls of text struck me as odd. He seems to just join in on furc and my case without looking at anyone else

he doesn't really try to scum hunt.

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I'm here and will post a review of the game shortly. One thing that caught my eye though, is Hop saying quickhammers are scummy now?

different game, don't talk about other ongoing games

and it wasn't just the quick hammer, because tbh I would have done the same thing in that position, it really is more the fact that he comes in after being inactive and joins in on the top 2 scummy people.

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Why, generically, do people ask

other

people what

otherother people

mean when they say stuff? I mean, why not A) ask the speaker

directly,

or 2)

FIGURE IT OUT YOUR DAMNED SELF?

Why are you not talking normally?

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Doom, why did you feel the need to have SV name claim? I don't see any sort of motivation behind it and why would you honestly think he would oblige?

reading your ISO, I pretty much get a town read on you and than I see that question and I start doubting myself. I still think you are town but want to know your reasoning for asking him for a name claim

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I am going to throw a

FOS

at Tony, anyone who directs vig to kill is scummy in my book.

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I only gave one reason originally cause I was on my phone. Just letting you know you are barking up the wrong tree here so go scum hunt and let's not mislynch again.

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no I don't think quick hammers are scummy, but I think Zang quick hammering when he basically pops in and joins in on the 2 wagons without really commenting on anyone else IS scummy

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if you read my games you will have seen me basically disprove every buzzword you guys like to throw out there.

Quick hammers are not scummy
game setup speculation is not scumy
WIFOM is not scummy
AtE is not scummy

people need to stop looking at buzzwords and start using the big thing 3 feet above their ass. This is a game about logic and reasoning, not a game of let's throw out buzzwords and run people up because of it.

when you are town, you have to go in with the mindset of what you would do if you were scum and go with it.

now sit back and ask yourself if you were mafia would you be playing like how I am playing. (yeah OMG you will have to use WIFOM to decide this answer)

if you come back with a yes than by all means put me at L-1 and let me claim

if you come back with a no or a hmm I don't think i would play that bad, than unvote me and go look elsewhere.

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Guess I never thought of it like that, guess I need to stop it

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Or there is nothing better to go on and the vote is there for pressure to see how you react and how people react to your wagon. Cause, you know, that's how things often go down, especially at the beginning of the game.

forcing me to go back and look at his ISO,

funny he makes this comment to furc yet he doesn't even have a vote on anyone

FOS Ghost

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Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

going back readking EMP's ISO and funny he asks me this yet he doesn't provide opinions on anyone himself and is basically hopping back and forth between furc and I

unvote, vote empking

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edit after post - and if setup speculation was really scummy I would expect him to explain why it is, not just say it is.

I explained I am newer to this site and am trying to figure some things out, this isn't scummy this is trying to be an informed player and if trying to be informed scares him so much, well than he must be scum.

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Maybe before the weekend oficially starts we can get sone discussion going?

Waiting til Monday is gonna suck

right now

fos everyone not posted anything if value yet this day phase

and also cause quite frankly I don't even care anymore, if you say you are going to post a catchup post, you better do it

we got new guys who replaced inactives who are now inactive themselves. Yes I have an unrealistic expectation on activity but I seriously doubt anyone can't get 20 minutes in a single day to hop on (no pun intended) and contribute something.

And if you don't have 20 minutes to spare, heck even 10 minutes at this pace is enough, but if you can't do that than why are you even playing in the first place?

Mafia is about interaction with others, can't have a game without it

/rant

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1. You are not scum hunting
2. Voting first doesnt prove your point
3. I quoted that one part cause I felt it was relevant, no need to quote the entire post and people are smart enough to read the whole thing if the want to so no it isn't scummy

you have done nothing this game but bandwagon hop.

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Increase activity by posting less makes no sense

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1. I am, the post you quotyted out of context is an example of such.
2. It proves I'm not just bandwagonning players.
3. You were implying that I was being hypocritical. In context that was clearly not the case. So yes it is scummy.
4. That's clearly not the truth.
5. Its counter intuitive, true, but that doesn't change the fact that its true.

1. That post I quoted proves nothing, the way I read it, ghost implied he had a pressure vote 1. A. You have no examples from day 1 and an incredibility weak example day 2.
2. So you bandwagon yesterday and figure if you vote me first today you will not be accused of bandwagoning, noted scum
3. "I'm not hypocritical cause I say I'm not" lol
4. What's not true? Bandwagon hopping? Look at your vote history and explain how it's not.
5. What is counter intuitive?

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Why, generically, do people ask

other

people what

otherother people

mean when they say stuff? I mean, why not A) ask the speaker

directly,

or 2)

FIGURE IT OUT YOUR DAMNED SELF?

Why are you not talking normally?

Define "normal." Especially for me.

Think carefully, now.

Why are you not scum hunting?

[PogoStick]

I don't know about you, you are a waste in this game is what I know and after we hopefully lynch emp, we can figure you out next.

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Than dont beleive me zang. They are nit scummy cause I can provide examples of town using them.

If you can prove town uses those scummy tactics, that proved those tactics are not scum tells

a scumm tell is sonething scum does so if town also does it than it is called disproving it

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You have to keep an open mind with scum reads, myb2 biggest reads of day 1 are now gone, if I was close minded I'd just have to quit scum hunting

2. You implied you were somehow scum hunting by voting first, voting first doesn't prove you are scum hunting

3. Your votes were clearly not "serious"

your last post I don't understand what you were originally even trying to ask/imply

your reasons for voting were weak and border sheeping, you made no real case for anyone

also even if you did vote first on one of the wagons, it doesn't prove you are not scum, I don't remeber seeing a rule that says if you vote first you are automatically town

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EBWOP:
Strawman: "I don't remeber seeing a rule that says if you vote first you are automatically town"

YOU said you were scum hunting by voting first

YOU implied that by voting before they had a wagon to make it seem like you are not scum

I don't have to twist it cause you posted it in black and white

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Than dont beleive me zang. They are nit scummy cause I can provide examples of town using them.

If you can prove town uses those scummy tactics, that proved those tactics are not scum tells

a scumm tell is sonething scum does so if town also does it than it is called disproving it

I can also prove town using them. I'm saying that they are used mostly by scum and when town do use them it is anti town, I never said that they are scum tells and neither did you. Just because they are scummy doesn't mean they are scum tells.

So if you seen pro town use them whu immediately come after those guys that do it and act like they ate scum for doing it?

[PogoStick]

So you get called out and instead of a proper defense you clam up?

Yeah that's pro town

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unvote, vote SV

I'll get back to emp later

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EBWOP:
Strawman: "I don't remeber seeing a rule that says if you vote first you are automatically town"

YOU said you were scum hunting by voting first

YOU implied that by voting before they had a wagon to make it seem like you are not scum

I don't have to twist it cause you posted it in black and white

Provide quotes. I said that my voting before their was a wagon meant that I wasn't bandwagonning. Not that it was infallable evidence for me being town.

(Nowe I really am not going to talk about it any more.)

Smarg: I've been scumhunting being the first person to vote Hop today

and oner of the main proponents behind Furc. I might have been wrong about Furc and you might disagree with me on Hop but that doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting. Along with Hop, there's GW for possible scum


Hop: Taking quotes out of context to try and make a player look scummy is scummy itself. (The quote he quoted was in response to Hop having null and scum reads on everyone as we would expect from scum that doesn't want to get boxxed in but still feels the need to post their reads on everyone) Also if you actually want an increase in activity stop posting as much as you do.

also excluding your very 1st rvs vote here are your votes and reasons

Unvote

Vote: Fur

Using WIFOM to give himself town points.

Unvote

Vote: Hop

The two of them have been the scummiest to me for a long time but since they're balanced I feel that Noc's reasoning pushed Hop ahead of Furc.

Unvote

Vote: Fur

Simply awful.

your vote today

Vote: Hop

- Same as yesterday plus set up speculation.

OMG you are the best scum hunter this game has ever seen, town please follow emp because he is scum hunting yo

[PogoStick]

Quite a bit of reading I have to do XD I'm just going to skim through some parts for now.

@HOMJ- So i'm going to assume you don't beleive SV's post restriction?

I've been scumhunting being the first person to vote Hop today

Erm... What?

Nowe I really am not going to talk about it any more.

See: "I don't have a good defense"

I'm beginning to lean towards empscum right now as a #2 scumpick if Ghost can't manage to do anything helpful.

no I don't believe it anymore. BUT Even if he does have a post restriction, like the mod said you can't try and out-guess him (or some shit like that) so post restriction =/= automatic townie

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DB: Are you really such an awful player that you think back and forths between two players are a good thing as opposed to an activity killer?

Do you have anything specific that I haven't answered?

Hop: Again stop purposely misintepreting me. I never said people should follow me.

that comment was sarcasm


This is my comment












and this is your head


I was not saying you were telling people to follow you but was sarcastically telling people they should because in reality they should be lynching you

[PogoStick]

and did you really just call DB a bad mafia player, LOL

[PogoStick]

if you are pro-town how are you going to earn credibility with the players in the game if you insult them?

if I came in and saw someone insulted another player, no matter who it was I would vote them immediately

if you are trying to defend yourself there is no need for insults.

[PogoStick]

and who is straw manning now, twisting my words to imply I am buddying? wow you keep spiraling and flailing

[PogoStick]

Maybe you didn't directly insult him but asking him if he is really that bad of a player is a sideways attemp to insult him

[PogoStick]

Hop, how is this comment not just as insulting? You can't be hypocritical about this.

I'm looking forward to hearing from BV310.

cause of his reaction when I posted it he clearly missed that it was sarcasm, hence it WENT OVER HIS HEAD

[PogoStick]

yeah I'd like to hear from bv also and one of these days when someone says they will post a catchup post soon and doesn't I am going to suggest a policy lynch, I hate liars

[PogoStick]

no I am not buddying
and what I mean was it seemed like you just insulted a player (atleast that is how I took that comment) and it isn't a pro-town thing to say. Even if you didn't mean it as an isult, that whole statment wasn't very pro-town

[PogoStick]

cause I found it funny that you are flailing so bad

[PogoStick]

I find it funny that you are flailing you have to insult someone
I find insulting someone not pro town

not sure what the confusion is?

you are busted just give up already.

[PogoStick]

I already said if you are pro-town there is no reason to insult someone, so if I logged into a game and saw someone had been insulted, I would vote the person doing the insulting.

insults are not pro town

not sure why you are confused

[PogoStick]

You kept asking, you are barking up the wrong tree with me and now you are running off with your tail between your legs

so instead of asking me of insignificant things, start scum hunting cause you have yet to do it this game.

[PogoStick]

Shateted, what do you think of empking.

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2. I did. You and Hop are clearly lying when you say otherwise. People don't randomly sarcastically say people shouldn't follow me. Its prompted by something.

I said it cause you clearly have no interest in scum hunting and you don't even know what it means because by your own words you said you voted me first today so you are scum hunting.

1. Voting first is not scum hunting
2. The reason you gave for your vote was "same as yesterday" which isn't a good enough reason in my opinion
3. Even if you are defending yourself you shouldn't let it sway you from scum hunting which you still aren't doing

[PogoStick]

show me where you have scum hunted?

[PogoStick]

Define Scumhunting.

why don't you provide your definition and than post examples.

my definition is trying to find scum based on their actions, words, and sometimes lack of words.

you have tried to give a false impression that you are scum hunting in this game which is absolute false based on my definition of scum hunting. You have come after people for basically no reason what so ever. you haven't provided a solid case on furc or myself so to start the day saying "same as yesterday" just isn't good enough.

you are hoping town is stupid enough to just blindly follow you to another mislynch but in reality if town mislynches today we are in deep shit. This is time go get serious and you aren't showing you are serious.

[PogoStick]

2.

I've given plenty of reasons for voting you

(and previously for voting Furc) and I'm sure you know that otherwise you wouldn't be acting as if my only reason for voting you today was ""same as yesterday"" when I gave another reason in my actual vote post.

Let's go to the tape alex

Vote: Hop

- its day 1.

Unvote

Vote: Hop

The two of them have been the scummiest to me for a long time but since they're balanced I feel that Noc's reasoning pushed Hop ahead of Furc.

Vote: Hop

- Same as yesterday plus set up speculation.

I don't see any reasons in your votes.

now here is posts you made

Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone? Because it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

I don't even know how you can get "I am keeping my options open" when I vote for somebody after giving my reads on people. If I was keeping my options open i would not have voted.

than you post this one later

Unvote

Vote: Hop

The two of them have been the scummiest to me for a long time but since they're balanced I feel that Noc's reasoning pushed Hop ahead of Furc.

so you feel that noc's reasons made me more scummier, wouldn't this be following him aka sheeping? I mean you never and I repeat NEVER make a case against me.

[PogoStick]

1. doesn't look real to you is just an opinion and not a reason why somebody is scum. Also why would I think scum could day talk when every other game on this site that I have played in disallowed it? I didn't read the fucking rules, tbh I still have not read all the rules so because you try and throw sometyhing out there and twist it to make someone look scummy, is umm what is it called, hold on, ummm....... oh yeah STRAW MAN. you twisted something I said in an attempt to make me look like scum. You may not have done it when you first said it but you are now using that as a reason I am scum right now so it still applies.

2. so distancing myself from a scummy town player makes me scum, WHAT?

3. I VOTED FOR SOMEBODY, so clearly I did not keep my options open. I also later went and attacked Lord and Nocman because I felt they were scum, in my mind those 3 were the scum team so I did not keep my options open, I narrowed down to 3

[PogoStick]

-

Hop is just impossible. He needs to die before LyLo.

-Empking isn't helping by getting dragged into this mess with Hop. Other than Hop, do you have any scumreads?
-SV's post restriction is also difficult. SV, can you communicate in any way with us (ie morse code, going through a list, etc)? Do you have a quicktopic with another player where you can post freely? What exactly is the nature of your post restriction?
-Why hasn't bv310 posted yet? And I mean a real post, not a "Oh yeah, meant to do that" post.

how about you concern yourself with taking mafia out instead of lining up a lynch later in the game of a townie before lylo

the fact you even made this comment is suspicious to me because now you have given mafia incentive to keep me alive as long as possible because they know they have a guaranteed mislynch waiting for them.

[PogoStick]

Smarg: GW, DB and SV are the people I'm leaning at. WSe'll be able to make a much better idea once we lynch Hop and have confirmation thast he's scum.

well you may as well go start looking at those 3 because I can GUARANTEE you I am not scum so why mislynch when you can go get the real deal.

[PogoStick]

and the funny thing is emp you STILL have not posted any real reason that you think I am scum with the exception of my play is the same as furc, and we all know how that played out.

also you ignored my response back to you.

your case on me is

1. my comment about scum talking looks fake - however it is well known that scum talking during the day on this site is very rare
2. I was distancing from a townie (doesn't make sense)
3. I left my options open by voting for furclow (Really?)

your case is basically no case.

[PogoStick]

You accused me of keeping my options right after I made my long post and voted furc, if that wasn't it than point where I kept my options open cause you have not pointed to where I supposedly did that. I kept mentioning the point I voted for furc, because it was right after it to accused me if it

so where did I post something that made it looks like I was keepng my options open.

1. Your opinion, nobody else ever commented
2. So this is removed from your case
3. Until you point out where I was keeping my options open, this is removed

your case is fallng apart minute by minute

[PogoStick]

I would love to vote the 2 people I called scummy but they are dead so I have to move on

you are clearly scum and SV isn't helping town

[PogoStick]

You're right about Lord being dead I forgoty about that. But HOW THE HELL DID YOU KNOW NOC WAS DEAD?

Have you ever played epic mafia? Missing means dead but janitored

[PogoStick]

Hop: Do you have a positive read on anyone?

Because

it looks very like that you're keeping your options open?

(bold mine)

I think its pretty clear how you're keeping your options open, plus the fact that I explained it again today.

Because nobody stood out to me as being pro-town? Fine I'll give you that I guess it could be looked like I was keeping my options open, I just didn't have strong town reads.

[PogoStick]

Well I never played a game with someone missing before so that's my only experience

[PogoStick]

You're right about Lord being dead I forgoty about that. But HOW THE HELL DID YOU KNOW NOC WAS DEAD?

This contradicts what you just said IMO

[PogoStick]

You clearly overreacted to make me look like scum

[PogoStick]

You clearly overreacted to make me look like scum

This is relevant cause you fake overreact to make me look like scum but later say it's not a scum tell

you typing all caps was unnecessary if it wasn't a scum tell, hence it seemed like a contradiction to me.

[PogoStick]

Fair enough

[PogoStick]

As much as I hate you right now, you are posting something

[PogoStick]

unvote, vote bv310

I still have emp on my shit list but these inactive players are ruining the game and these false promises are getting old.

[PogoStick]

so basically you are OMGUSing me, way to go

[PogoStick]

because if you go look at all my games I am obsessive with my activity and you have basically provided no other real reason for my vote

you should be commenting on the entire game, lord knows there is enough of it.

you come in and vote for the VI is just proof you are too lazy to scum hunt or you are scum, either way you are harmful to town.

my posts have not been usless, being called a moron is a personal attack {b]Mod please warn him this is not acceptable[/b].

You say i am playing "actively anti-town:" but don't post any examples of such

so like I said your case is basically OMGUS

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Mod please warn people against personal attacks, thank you

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it's funny people want me gone yet NOBODY has any valid reason for it, you guys are making up stuff or really grasping at straws. NOTHING I have done in this game is ant-town and you know it.

makeing up some lame excuse that increased activity is scum, is full of shit because in all my games, mafia is typically not the most active.

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so just for the record

Emp's reasons for my vote have already been debunked
zang votes never makes a valid case
bv's votes for reasons that are fabricated

these 3 people can't possibly be mafia or that woudl really be obvious but I am pretty sure 1 or 2 of them are.

nobody can point to any reason I am scum other than being in their mind a VI

their reasons make no sense or can easily be debunked.

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BV, I would like you to comment on empking's play throughout the entire game, keep in mind his posts about how he is "scumhunting"

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and here you go bv, I was vanilla townie this game and had more posts than anyone else in the game - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19&start=0

if you want to use meta, I can prove I am active in every game.

I am the rare person who feels that if you can't post 10 posts minimum EVERY DAY than why the hell are you even playing mafia.

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Hop, please consider for a moment the merits of quality vs. quantity. He's right in that if you're just posting to yourself it's only cluttering up the thread.

well I wouldn't be posting to myself if you guys would post more. Inactivity is the biggest pet peeve of mine and this site is the worse for it.

problem is where I play, the people talk too much but are so damn stupid they lynch a cop before he even has a chance to defend himself


if i can find a site where people are smarter (here) and don't post every 4 days (NOT HERE) than I would be happy.

I'm sorry I talk too much but that is me, I lead post count on my other site also, I blame it on my ADD and lack of other hobbies

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1. Appeal to numbers? - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2625413 - so you throw that buzzword to make yourself feel smart. way to go and when statistics prove that voting NL is pretty anti-town, there is nothing wrong with it.

2. I think you have that last part wrong. There is no way MAFIA would be dumb enough to post something like that. Do you really mafia would say "I understand people find my actions scummy"?
part 2, - policy lynching a VI is just wrong and that is basically what I felt was happening. Policy lynching VI is just another way scum can get to end the day because everyone is willing to lynch a VI, even townies

3. I don't get what you are talking about with my quoted post, I don't see anything wrong with it at all except for the fact that I was wrong about nocman being scum

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I voted him to get him to post and OH MY GOD GUESS WHAT. he posted.

this is called active lurking and is what scum do.

they come back to the game when they are mentioned or voted and his huge catchup post basically comes down to nothing significant and he joins my bandwagon which proves he is just hopping on the easiest lynch.

he is hung himself imo.

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If there's anything else you want me to comment on specifically, then ask. Otherwise, I'm going to take a look through again later on, once we've lynched HoMJ.

BV, I would like you to comment on empking's play throughout the entire game, keep in mind his posts about how he is "scumhunting"

interesting that you seem to completely ignore my question

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wednesday? to quote charlie brown

Good grief

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he comes in after promising to make this huge catchup post and sees that I am voting for him and he decides to say fuck it and just make a weak case on me and vote me cause I am the "easy target"

to me it originally seemed like OMGUS because his case holds no merit, however I just checked and he votes me right as he replaces in the game which is ultra scummy. he even admits he hasn't done a FULL READTHROUGH, yet he feels without that, I am the vote. which just adds into the scummy behavior

nobody's case holds any merit in my mind and i have debunked all of them with valid reasons as to why they are faulty.

bv is being lazy and failing to deliver on his promise which was

vote: Hop

Setup speculation, in and of itself, is not scummy. Ignoring everything that has happened so far, including analyzing players based on known flips, in favour of pointless speculation is very much vote worthy.

Also, Hi! I'm your new Foilist. I'm partially through my readthrough now,

and will attempt to get a big ol' wall of text up tonight or tomorrow.

and what do we get after THREEW WHOLE DAYS OF WAITING?

this big ol pile of stinking garbage

Okay, so in catching up, I have decided the following:

HoMJ, Zang, and possibly Furc need rope. As it stands, I want HoMJ dead first. Every single post he's made so far today has been beyond useless. In some cases, he's just being a moron. In others, he is playing actively anti-town. He keeps trying to argue off his pointless posts by claiming that they're "just his playstyle". He's also being entirely too obsessive with activity (which is a classic scum tactic to seem pro-town)

Vote: HoMJ

If there's anything else you want me to comment on specifically, then ask. Otherwise, I'm going to take a look through again later on, once we've lynched HoMJ.

he reaks of scum by jumping on the easiest target instead of providing solid reads on people
he lies because he says he is going to post a wall of text on his reads of the game and he fails on that aspect
and lastly 2 different people have asked him DIRECT QUESTIONS at his own request to be asked directly and he ignores them and now we are waiting for him to poke in his head again and post nothing of value yet again

you want to be blinded by him, go right ahead but he clearly isn't playing with a pro-town mentality because he fails to do the ONE THING somebody pro-town is required to do in this game and that is scum hunt.

all this adds up in my mind as scum in my book

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yeah I retract the OMGUS part of it

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Isn't thanksgiving on Thursday?

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For an inactive who needed to be prodded to come in and say wait 2 more days, yes that deserves lots of grief

this game has screeched to a halt.

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Mod in between cooking and watching football i will still manage to come in here and talk to myself

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I'm not going to post cases on SV and GW because I want people to vote Hop rather than SV and GW.

How is this protown behavior?

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1. you are refusing to scum hunt yet again, even if you think I am scum you can still post your case on the others
2. withholding possible information to prevent the rest of town to make an informed decision.

by informed decision if you post your reads on why the others are scum, they may actually find that information more valid than the case you have put on me and GOD FORBID actually lynch somebody else besides me

3. your refusal to consider somebody else could be scum and that I may actually be telling the truth and I am not scum.

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[b[unvote, vote empking[/b]

withholding information about his reads on other players until I am lynched is not a pro-town mentality, especially because he just "thinks" I am scum. He has not provided much of a case against me and I was able to debunk most if not all of it.

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unvote, vote empking

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Edit; How in the good lord's name have I been withholding my reads on players. Everybody is well aware who my four main suspects are. And you've rebutted nothing even DB agreed with that (I think).

I'm not going to post cases on SV and GW because I want people to vote Hop rather than SV and GW.

this is how.

ok let me ask you this, If I happen to get to L-1 are you even going to believe me when I claim?

and if you answer no to that question than you better post what has you 100% convinced I am scum because right now it just looks like you are trying to rid the town of VIs and not really caring about ridding the town of scum.

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oh and NO Db did not agree with it. I did rebut everything and with valid explanations, more than enough to convince someone who is pro-town that I may actually be telling the truth and that your case on me isn't as strong as you think it is.

here is a link to where I started re-butting your case

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2634134

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I am sorry if I seem to be attacking you empking but I really am just confused. I really am here trying to do my best to scumhunt. Maybe I am not doing the things you think I shoudl be doing but I am making an effort. I really can't imagine that I have done anything at all that woudl make me 100% scum and if I have than I really fucked up somewhere because I am very much pro-town.

I think you preventing to make a case on the others is actually not helping anyone, especially what happens if I do get lynched and mafia NKs you tonight, your information would be gone.

for the best interest in town you should share your information.

and I am not really buyinig the "I am hiding the info from scum" because scum already know who they are so hiding your information isn't helping them, it's hurting town.

yeah I will now try and go back and look at those 2 guys on my own, but not everyone interprets things the same way.

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boy that was quick

ok GW, there is only one of his posts that struck me as odd, the rest basically he hasn't been active enough and have requested a replacement.

SV, does seem to be defending furclow in day 1, does it atleast twice so there could be something more there but because he is pretending (yes I am calling it pretending because I don't believe it) that he has some sort of post restriction we can't get anything useful out of him.

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weird, I play mafia on another site with a guy name primate, but i doubt this is the same one.

regardless, welcome

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@emp - you told smarge that you think BV's actions are pro town, do you think somebody replacing into the game should focus on the person with the largest bandwagon or should comment on more than one player?

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ad since he really did not do that, what else has he done that gives you a pro-town read?

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His reaction towards you doesn't look like bussing or like scum voting a townie.

Therefore if he's neither bussing nor trying for a mislynch he must be town.

this part strikes me as odd

ok I buy he doesn't look like scum voting for a townie - so it could be townie voting for a townie

but how do you jump to the conclusion that he is "trying for a mislynch"? the only way to know it would be a mislynch is if somebody KNEW I was town.

you say it doesn't look like he knows I am town so wouldn't you have worded that last part differently?

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but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

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but how can you say he is trying for a mislynch when you are convinced I am scum? the only way you can say that is if you know I am not scum.

He isn't trying for a mislynch! He's town!

1. they way you worded it, made it see like you knew I was town.

2. I am not trying to twist your words so I will just ask. Did you just declare BV is town?

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fair enough

ok Happy thanksgiving, going to "try" not to log on the rest of the day.

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1. Just because someone has the largest wagon doesn't mean ignore everyone else

2. No it's not straw man, you totally implied that you are not buddying, and there is no reason to imply that if not trying to imply you are town

3. You quickly gravitated to bv, looks sort of like buddying to me

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You should be providing your cases on others
I'm not defending, more like pointng out the fact that you had no reason to say you are no buddying unless you are trying to clear yourself as town. Cause only scum is accused of buddying so by saying you are not buddying is declaring yourself as town

You gravitate cause you declare him as town

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Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply. But I haven't ruled him out as scum, he is on my radar too

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Saying the truth is not defending, there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.

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Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weight

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Must isn't relative because that's clearly what you were trying to imply.

No it wasn't. And to stop this from turning into a yes-no-yes-no thing. SV and GW are my other two suspects, neither of them have an obvious buddy (especially not SV who is the SK (OK, GW does have two obvious partners but that's just because they're obvious scum not in relation to GW.))

THIS IS OPINION. because I already explained, when player A accuses player B of buddying, it us implying that player B must be scum (town doesn't buddy) so when Player A says "I am not buddying" this is player A's attempt to imply they are not scum because they are not buddying.

your response of "no it wasn't" is 100% opinion

there was no twisting of words as I already explained. By accusing someone of buddying and saying you aren't, is saying he must be scum and I must not be.

Wrong.

you saying 'WRONG" is

YOUR OPINION

because in actuality my example above is 100% fact and I will outline it again

YOU

tried to say I was buddying, there is only one reason to accuse somebody of buddying, which is to say I am scum.

YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

this isn't too difficult to understand, you keep trying to spin it but the fact remains is

you

made the comment, not me

you think I am buddying, that is your opinion, but trying to imply you have not buddied with anyone is your attempt to prove you as being town which is what you got called out on in which you replied

straw man

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Your rebuttal in the above post is strictly your opinion, sadly opinions in this game don't hold much weight

"I can't argue with the insurmountable logic that Empking clearly thinks scum without buddies exist (and therefore he can't possibly think that a player without any obvious buddies MUST be town). So I'll just pretend its all opinion"

straw man much?

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YOU

ask who are your buddies, implying that you have none, which implies that

YOU MUST BE TOWN

OK, one of two things are definitely true now.

1. You've failled to hear about SKs.
2. You're scum.

Which is it?

1. yes I have heard of SKs but I am not trying to speculate if we have them in this game because we don't have nearly enough information to do so
2. No I am not scum
3. so by that statement if you are not implying you are town, does that mean you are implying you are SK? because that would make town's job that much easier because now you threw it out there, you are either implying one of those 2 things.

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than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

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not sure when the mod will get back on but my quick vote count shows

[3] HopOnMyJoystick - Empking, bv310, Zang
[3] Empking - Doombunny9, hoponmyjoystick, tony
[1] bv310 - smargaret

with 5 to lynch so Myself and Emp are both L-2

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than why bring it up in the first point? why accuse someone of buddying and than ask people who you have buddied?

1. I never accused somebody of "buddying"

nor asked who I "buddied"

I accused them of having obvious buddies and my having no buddies.
2. Its an important part of scumhunting and I think TM neglected it.

TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue. DB and Hop are clearly buddies.

Who are my buddies?

basically yes you did

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how did I lie?

also calling someone a VI I have learned on site is more of a scum tactic than a town tactic

asking someone "who are my buddies" is basically the same as asking "who I buddied" just worded differently

nobody is buddying you but you tried to buddy to BV by immediately calling him pro-town, trying to get him on your side ASAP

and I consider being called a VI an insult so I would ask you to not do it again.

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insulting me is not helping me get better at this game either.

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emp, just because 2 people make cases on you doesn't mean we are buddying, it could possibly mean that 2 people find you scummy and your words support my theory of you being scum and now you are flailing by accusing us of buddying or defending.

I don't need him to help me make my case on you, I have provided more than enough to get you lynched

when you stack my evidence on you vs your evidence on me the scale tips towards you being scum not me, all we need now is these inactives to come in and decide what they want to do.

btw if anyone wants me to bullet my reasons why he is scum, please ask and I will gladly do so, I won't hide my information because OMG scum may read it also.

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^It'd sure help me make sense of this last bit. Trying to read your argument back and forth is headache-inducing.

I'm not doing anything for you till you show interest in playing

If I recall you have 2 direct questions you are avoiding as well

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TM: What weak arguments?
Look at this in a wider issue.

DB and Hop are clearly buddies.

Who are my buddies?

Lies getting harder to remember emp?

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why are you directing everything toward TM? there are other players in this game

and how is me pointing out your lies a coordinated strike?

seems like you are flailing pretty hard

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you need to convince more than TM that you are not scum

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emp I posted the quote where you said I was buddying, can you not read?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2642527

evidence of you flailing is accusing me and DB for buddying when we are making cases on you being scum, besides do you not know how buddying works?

buddying is typically scum buddying to town, you are implying that DB and I are scum together teaming up on you which is not what buddying is.

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and I hope people notice that your activity went WAY UP once pressure built on you, before that you were just lurking and posting sporadically, now everytime someone posts something about you, you are right online to respond.

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Day 1 - 16 posts
Day 2 - 71 posts

nuff said.

and you decalred bv as pro town that was pretty immediate imo

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Day 1 - 16 posts
Day 2 - 71 posts

nuff said.

No.

and you decalred bv as pro town that was pretty immediate imo

Are the say 25/11 is immediately after 16/11 (bv's first post) or do have some other date in mind.

DB:Wow, I guess you were wrong about Hop not meaning immediately, weren't you? Whoops.

really, you are going to argue semantics?

also love how I posted where you claimed we were buddying but ignore that part of it and try and spin some more shit towards DB

you deny saying we were buddying

I provide quote you asked for, where you say it

you ignore said quote and try and argue something else.

you are scum