Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[CooLskins]

/confirm

[CooLskins]

/confirm also.

For the sake of sanity are any of you guys noobs who are right out of the noob games?

Note: above is bub's confirm...

-CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Wait, we've got a hydra in the game? Not too pleased about that.

yes actually. I believe I made it very clear in the queue that this is a hydra. If you are very much apposed to it (after talking to bub) we could easily replace out.

@Beck, okay, I just didn't want to have two complete noobs like we had last game that we played in.

[CooLskins]

I didn't consider to place prerequisites on the game to avoid entirely new players, hydra accounts or anything else that might bother people.

I think it's fair to say that if 5 players pm anonymously or in the game I'll look for a replacement for the hydra.

Honestly, I thought that mini normals didn't allow for non alts to join without playing a newbie game before but it doesn't seem to be an issue here.

We're waiting on celebloki to confirm and, in the meantime, can decide if I need to look for a replacement for anyone

We just finished a mini game (nowheresvill I think). Both bub and I (CooLDoG) have played in many other games as well.

@coolskins, I am a noob, I have played 1 newbie game. I will try not to damage your sanity too much.

I just finished a game with two people who did not even go through newbies. You should be fine, and I'm looking forward to playing with you.

just to be clear, a hydra is 2 people playing under 1 account?

that is what it looks like based of the 2 confirms by the same person.

i think it is weird personally but I will give it a shot, its hard to read 2 different people/opinions playing the same account but whatever.

as for me, don't worry about me, i will do just fine.

Hydra just means more then one person share the account (epic 3-way hydra anybody?). We still only have 1 vote, and we normally agree on most things.

[CooLskins]

vote:Haschel Cedricson

Un-denied omgus

-CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Wait, we've got a hydra in the game? Not too pleased about that.

yes actually. I believe I made it very clear in the queue that this is a hydra. If you are very much apposed to it (after talking to bub) we could easily replace out.

Nah, I can suck it up and deal with it. To tell the truth, I didn't read any of the Queue, I just typed "/in for next". I have a bit of trouble reading hydras because of my scumhunting style, so don't be surprised if later in the game I do something like ask a question and demand that one specific head answer.

Anyhoo, let's get down to business.

Vote: Surye

. He knows why.

That is great. I should try doing that to other hydra's too.

@Zodiak, But, that's only half my account

-CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

@the skins part of the hydra, redskin fan?

No, I'm a packer's fan (before the super bowl win) and Bub Bider

skins

is actually a Titans fan.

@mod, sense when?

[CooLskins]

No, I'm a packer's fan (before the super bowl win) and Bub Biderskins is actually a Titans fan.

Yep, I'm a Titans fan (which is kind of depressing).

vote: kondi

policy lynching it up in this
bobsnox, I promise not to kill you tonight.

Parama, we discussed this in the QT. You can only policy lynch me after D1 so you look better.
VOTE: Parama for not listening.

What's this all about?

[CooLskins]

No, its just because its fun. We know each other really well in real life, and we didn't have many games going. So we just decided to start a hydra. After our first game (you can reread it right here. Its called Nowherevill) it was so much fun that we decided to do it again. Both Bub and I have other games going as individuals, and we are usually on-line a lot. Its simply a "fun thing".

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

are mini normals usually this slow in RVS?

Not that I can remember.

Let's get this parma wagon going.

unvote, vote: parama

[CooLskins]

simple really:

1) wishywashy in vote stages. Votes for hasc, then all of a sudden votes for don.
2) hops on biggest wagon that already has 4 peple on it. Which is plenty big for an rvs wagon
3) His votes don't contribute to the game. Hasc had 2 votes on him when he unvoted to a wagon that had no votes.
4) piggy-backing with an apparently experienced (I full heatedly deny this ) player to gain town credit.
5) doesn't seem to understand the magnitude of his vote.

I argue that your wagon has produced valued information. It exposed that all beck wants is a lynch and to appear town.

unvote, vote: beck

[CooLskins]

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

@bob, what do you think of both my and beck's hop onto the parama wagon?

[CooLskins]

I'm really not liking Don's reaction to the Beck wagon. Saying that the wagon is good without voting is classic scum fence-sitting. It could be him trying to push a townie wagon without his vote being on it, or him offering vague support for a scumbud's wagon without him actuall pushing it. Either way it's super scummy.

FoS: Don

Not going to vote for him just yet, though, because CooLDoG likes the Beck wagon and I want to respect his opinion. Also, I want to see where this wagon's going...

-Bub

[CooLskins]

fyi, parama is god. Listen to him.

Secondly, Beck's responce to the attack on him is very weak I wish I had time to dig into it now, but sadly I do not. I might not be able to post today (bub most likely will). I just want to say that Beck and Don are likely scum buds. The connection is obvious.

@#beck, parama has a meta of throwing out semi-random percentages in order to show how confident he is in making a statement. At least I think he has that meta.

I will have a lot more latter. Possibly in one hour. If that doesn't happen I probably will not be able to post at all today and have to play catch-up.

-CooLDoG

Sorry that it was rushed and probably convoluted...

[CooLskins]

vote: don

Really don't like his waffle on the Beck wagon. I also don't like Kondi putting beck at L-1 the way he did.

FoS: Kondi

-Bub

[CooLskins]

So, a litlle bit more patience today, everyone?

^yes we need this.

I personally have the strongest scum read on kondi right now. Just looking at his iso we see that he doesn't contribute to the game. Basically he is active lurking...

He has made a total of 5 posts and never gave a solid reason for his beck vote:

Oh, Parama already wrapped up the scum for us? Awesome.

VOTE: Beck

And later just asking for a claim:

RVS

Unvote

@kondi, were you aware you put Beck at L-1?

Yea. He listed the 5 people that were already voting for him, so I knew he was at L2.

And you say wifom like it's a negative thing, I can assure you 100% wifom isn't a scum tell(and yes I can provide proof for my 100% statement, unlike parama for his)

Proof please. Claim please.

The above (at least to me) shows that all kondi wants to do is lynch whoever is the biggest wagon.

Next we get to don...

Like kondi don does not contribute to the game at all. Only having six posts and no votes d-1. The extent of his scum hunting can be found in post #69 (thank you for the "real post number "):

So to get some discussion going, Don I find it just s tad interesting that you post shortly after I vote for you, especially since your post was to clarify which don I voted for.

just got home from work. my question was rhetorical.

Also Don, you seem to be posting elsewhere on site but not posting in here during the same time frame. I could understand a lack of time excuse if we were actually debating or discussing something heavy, but thats not the case here.

i never gave an "excuse". not sure what you are getting at.

Any reason why you aren't posting in here?

not in particular, no. can't talk about ongoing games, but i did just win one.

And naturally we have the non committal committal in post #88

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

With no vote. Trying to gain town credit by "not being for the beck lynch". It also sets him up so he could easily transfer his suspicions to somebody else.

Next lets get to a recent post that needs addressing:

CooLskins and Beck just both double RVSed. There is a 100% chance at least one is scum.

So CooLskins is basically confirmed scum now.

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Here we go. I have the strongest scum read on player A, but I will not vote for him because He is so scummy that we can lynch him tomorrow, bullshit. If you have a scum read on somebody why are you not voting for them? It seems stupid to allow a someone who you are absolutely sure is scum survive till the night. There is no town motivation for voting for a number two scum read this early in the day, period.

Vote stays on don because bub also has a strong scum read on him.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Arg! Wrong account.

*Try to be careful with that because it screws the Activity overview - HP

[CooLskins]

Per request:

VOTE: CooLskins

Mostly hunch. Something is off about post #26.

FoS deselby

No specific reason in vote post. Moving on to your next post about us...

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

/confirm also.

For the sake of sanity are any of you guys noobs who are right out of the noob games?

Note: above is bub's confirm...

-CooLDoG

I just didn't want to be explain a bunch of stuff along the way like it was a noob game. I also wanted to know for read perposes. For a noob some things aren't necessarily scum tells, like not wanting to RVS, or different posting style (a lot or very few posts).

Also,

@coolskins, I am a noob, I have played 1 newbie game. I will try not to damage your sanity too much.

I

just finished a game with two people who did not even go through newbies

. You should be fine, and I'm looking forward to playing with you.

This is farther clarification as to why I wanted to know who (if any) the noobs were. And Pleasure playing with is simply an acknowledgment similar to gg, gl, or hf.

Vote: Parama

didn't like it but I thought his reaction to my FoS was townie so he's a null read for me.

I don't like deselby's reaction to my Coolskins vote and I don't like how Coolskins ignored it and my vote (unless I missed it - phone posting sorry). There are clearly better suspects than myself at the moment.

[/quote]
Parama, kondi, and Don took my full attention at the time.

Des' reaction found here:

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

Today's challenge: can anyone provide an accusation based on less evidence than this? You have provided no evidence whatsoever against either of us, other than the laughable claim quoted above, and the fact that parama said coolskins is scum. Do you think I am not a newbie? Why? Also, if we chatted pre game, why would we repeat it here?

In fact there is a more of a link between you and parama, see post 76 & 176. I point this out not because it means anyhting, but it just shows how utterly baseless your accusation is.

Town aim to lynch on evidence, scum just aim to lynch. Unless you have something else to add which makes sense:

vote bobsnox

Firs thing that strikes me is how quick he is to react to it. Second thing that strikes me is that he doesn't have a vote on him. He seems to be afraid of a possible lynch on him, and that explains his reactionary play. Interesting that he does not make much comment about the beck wagon at all in both days...

@del, reads?

[CooLskins]

Xvart - those three together?...

Haschel - how he basically summarized why everyone was content to lynch Beck (seemed like a scummy way to seem protown instead of natural town behavior) and how he earlier just said he wanted to wait before hammering without explaining why.

You know what, I'm good with a cele lynch after reviewing his case again.

UNVOTE: Coolskins

VOTE: Celeboki

I think this is the right idea for now. Coolskins and deselby are reacting to my first vote. We can get more info out of them while gettimg the Celeboki wagon going.

Again, Parama is not today's lynch.

Ohh shit, that attack didn't work out. Lets just attack the guy who hammered. Not the person who has posted no content (and put beck at l-1) or the person who doesn't defend himself, or even the person who doesn't vote for his #1 scum read. Lets just vote for the biggest wagon.

@don, you could still be a scum neighbor. Xvart needs to confirm this claim.

[CooLskins]

Also, @ Bob, reasons for vote? Because I see none.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

No. im town. The implication there was that xvart might be a scum neighbor. His accusation came out of nowhere, so id like him to expand.

^link me to a pro-town post that you have made in this game. Also, one vote = claim? Explain that. Ever thought about Both you and xvart being town? Or maybe you are scum and he is town. That seems more likely.

[CooLskins]

Link me to a pro-town post. Or shall we assume that you haven't made one?

[CooLskins]

All of my posts are "pro-town", depending on your definition. I have barely participated in this game so far. we just passed 200 posts. Thats not very long, especially to already be in day 2. Are you going to let me respond to xvart when I can, or are you going to continue to bash me while im posting from my phone?

Okay, lets try it with different wording. Link me to a post where you scumhunt.

[CooLskins]

voicing support for the beck wagon without a vote helps stir the pot. i haven't had a chance at this point to read the full game, so you can expect a more solid "scumhunting" post to come. anyhow, if you are familiar with my playstyle you should know i don't scumhunt in any "traditional" styles.

I do not care what style you use. Show me one post you have made that tells me, "Wow, this guy is town.". The fact is that you can't link me to one.

[CooLskins]

@Kondi: Who do you think is scum right now?

I still don't like Don, and Parama's not voting for "confirmed scum" also strikes me as off. A Don/Parama/Kondi scumteam seems very plausible in my mind.

-Bub

[CooLskins]

Seriously, Kondi's made five posts in the game, two of which contained no content whatsoever and two more that basically contained only a vote for the leading wagon.

[CooLskins]

skins: Show me one post i have made that tells you, "Wow, this guy is scum.". The fact is that you can't link me to one.


^^ see how easy that is?

unvote

celbloks answer is adequate for now. for someone so seemingly eager to talk to me in the qt, xvart sure is taking his sweet time in responding to my response. didn't have a chance to catch up yet, but i will get to it asap.

kondi needs to respond.

^ohh easy. None of your posts are proactive. That's why you are scum. You only react, you aren't trying to find scum here. If you are town I would suggest that you link me to your amazing scumhunting tactics. And asl about the only 5 posts in d-1. That's kinda the point. You only made 5 posts and none of them were any good. In fact most of your posts are just trash. Don Dies today.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

game ate post...

@Bub: If you are reading this, you had betterfucking post.

@parama, I did learn that he admits to not scum hunting, and yet insists that he is pro-town. Also, good work on that their dodge.

@@hez wagon, hez is lurking poretty bad. I could put him in a don/parama scum team. But don has to be today's lynch.

[CooLskins]

~CooLDoG FTW.

[CooLskins]

I'm going to a do a quick ISO of zodiak. I have always had him at null...

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Zodiak only had 4 posts d-1...

Hrezs, Zodiark, don, xvart, and kondi all need to post more; they all have 5 or less posts, and at least one of those is pregame for each.

-ponders for a moment-

-looks back at the quicklynch the day before-

-leers-

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Hows this work again? I came back to read the game and the thread was closed.

Also you just called

3

people scum, and said

2

more scum left?

Sounds like a scumslip.

Vote: Parama

Of note: I havent actually read day 1

Can you say epic reaching?

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

The old hammer = scum reasoning. Beck was acting scummy and the hammer was bad, but there was better people worth a vote.

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

I don't like this one bit. It reads of "I'm getting a little suspicion, so I'm going to claim to try to get into the 'obvtown' chair".

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but

Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown

. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

The bolded just makes dons claim worse. He conveniently forgot to mention that he doesn't know his neighbors alignment, which would be an important aspect of a claim, unless you are claiming solely for the sake of trying to make yourself obvtown.

Vote: don_johnson

^this could be a possible retraction from a bus. And he hops on the Don wagon. He doesn't give specific reasoning other then the stupid alignment speculation that don was doing.

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

bob has said 'Go look at Zodiark', then since then has harassed everyone for their opinion on me and deselby, without even posting a case, apart from the aforementioned "Look at him" and , against deselby, saying "I don't like how deselby is reacting to my CooLskins vote" and "You've outed yourself as scum lolololol". Yet, despite these "cases", you decided to pointlessly wagon Hrezs when the wagon against him hit full steam. Seriously, your last post is the closest you have come to providing any reason for voting, and its not even a reason.

UNVOTE
Vote: bobsnox

Sound reasoning in my opinion for jumping on the bob wagon. Bob is a bit wishy washy.

Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy.

My vote stays on don for now. I would also be willing to lynch parama... Bub will post tonight or I will kick his ass.

[CooLskins]

I totally disagree with CooLDoG.

unvote; vote: zodiark

If Don is scum, then I don't know what he was smoking to come up with all that about the role PM. Seriously. Scum don't do that.

Looking back, I've found that Zodiark is scum. He's changed his vote three times today, each time to the biggest wagon, and the contradictions are terribad.

Vote #1: Hey, celi hammered a townie. Must be scum.

Vote #2: Oops, I guess hammering a townie isn't that bad. Sorry. BTW, oooooh pretty don wagon.

Vote #3: OMFG! Bob's got a bigger wagon than don! MUST JUMP!!!

I get the feel that he isn't serious about any of his votes; which is classic scum behavior.

[CooLskins]

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

I agree with this. I absolutely hate when hydra's contradict themselves in the game. Generally it's not too bad, but something like this, given the context of how it developed is highly suspicious. And sorry about the miscredit

I think it's mainly a consequence of CooLDoG tunneling onto Don for some time, and then me coming in with fresh eyes and seeing that Don being scum just doesn't make sense.

[CooLskins]

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

I agree with this. I absolutely hate when hydra's contradict themselves in the game. Generally it's not too bad, but something like this, given the context of how it developed is highly suspicious. And sorry about the miscredit

Is it any worse then what zodiark did by flip flopping? I still have a scum read on Don though. I just can't see don being town at the moment. I will hoewever, trust Bub's judgment.

[CooLskins]

Crap!

Okay, to make sure I don't do that again, I'm changing the hydra theme to mobile. That way I'll never be able to mistake accounts again. Anyway, as to the case:

Okay, here's a more in-depth case that will hopefully fullfill Zodiark's needs. After producing virtually no content whatsoever on D-1, Zodiark posts this:

Hrezs, Zodiark, don, xvart, and kondi all need to post more; they all have 5 or less posts, and at least one of those is pregame for each.

-ponders for a moment-

-looks back at the quicklynch the day before-

-leers-

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Hows this work again? I came back to read the game and the thread was closed.

Also you just called

3

people scum, and said

2

more scum left?

Sounds like a scumslip.

Vote: Parama

Of note: I havent actually read day 1

Can you say epic reaching?

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Relavent part is bolded. Uses very strong language to indicate that he thinks celi is scum. Says that if celi isn't scum that he needs to relearn how to scumhunt. Next post:

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

Going back over the game, I feel I should point out the slight misrep here.

Wait, we've got a hydra in the game? Not too pleased about that.

yes actually. I believe I made it very clear in the queue that this is a hydra. If you are very much apposed to it (after talking to bub) we could easily replace out.

@Beck, okay, I just didn't want to have two complete noobs like we had last game that we played in.

@coolskins, I am a noob, I have played 1 newbie game. I will try not to damage your sanity too much.

CooLskins said, and I quote, that he "didn't want two complete noobs...", not that he didn't want to play with noobs full stop.

Makes some slightly irrelavent comments and does nothing to further the wagon on a person whom he thinks is certainly scum. Next post:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

I don't like this one bit. It reads of "I'm getting a little suspicion, so I'm going to claim to try to get into the 'obvtown' chair".

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but

Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown

. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

The bolded just makes dons claim worse. He conveniently forgot to mention that he doesn't know his neighbors alignment, which would be an important aspect of a claim, unless you are claiming solely for the sake of trying to make yourself obvtown.

Vote: don_johnson

Total 180. Almost right after he said:

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

= scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

He says:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly,

hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

So before it was "If you're not scum; I need to relearn how to scumhunt." but now it's "Oh, it isn't a massive scumtell." Oh, and look who you're voting for:

Vote: don_johnson

Only the number one wagon at the moment. And he mainly sheeps his reasons to boot. But wait:

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

bob has said 'Go look at Zodiark', then since then has harassed everyone for their opinion on me and deselby, without even posting a case, apart from the aforementioned "Look at him" and , against deselby, saying "I don't like how deselby is reacting to my CooLskins vote" and "You've outed yourself as scum lolololol". Yet, despite these "cases", you decided to pointlessly wagon Hrezs when the wagon against him hit full steam. Seriously, your last post is the closest you have come to providing any reason for voting, and its not even a reason.

UNVOTE
Vote: bobsnox

We're now voting for the next major wagon. So after saying in no uncertain terms that celi was scum, Zodiark unvotes him and vote for the biggest wagon. Then

in his very next post

he unvotes

again

and votes for the new biggest wagon. To paraphrase: "If Zodiark isn't scum, then I need to relearn how to scumhunt."

ARG!!! This theme makes my eyes bleed!

[CooLskins]

Holy shit. That is too wierd. My eyes. Well if he can deal with it so can I...

I still think don is scum. Period. I will however trust Bub's judgment on this... He has been right before.

@xvart, Its not a flip flop. Its bub's view on zodiark. I personally have a null read on him atm.

I do not like hrez's last post. Specifically the part about, "Bob is still be ridiculously scummy yet I have absolutely no case on him what so ever but I want to post this anyway so I look like I have reads"

[CooLskins]

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

My name's been popular today.

AS IT SHOULD BE, you chucklehead.

You can't drop an uberscummy hammer like that and then bitch about getting voted after the fact. In fact, I don't think your name has been popular enough today; you should consider yourself lucky.

@bobsnox Don's #335 did stand out to me. It paints Hrezs as scum either way for Zodiark and I agree with his statement. I am weary to to hop over as it would put Hrezs at L-1 and I am not necessarily ready to put him in a spot for a quick-hammer. I think Hrezs needs to claim though and is effectively at L-1.

I'm willing to bet that Hrezs and Zodiark are scum buddies

and would be happy to see either lynched today.

Now, this is based on what?

Nice attempt at getting a counter-wagon started to try and protect your two scumbuds, antihero.

[CooLskins]

Should we have both Zodiark and Hrezs claim today?

No, there's no reason to. In the unlikely event that one of them is a power role, we want to get at least one night's worth of investigations. I'm not going to trade in zero gain for a loss, even if that loss is very small.

[CooLskins]

@Don, what reactions? What scum hunting? I don't see it.

New rule cooldog. You can't critique other people's thoughts if you don't know how to think.

Yes, zodiark is scummy. I'm starting to think Hrez is just a whiny, reactive lurker. That doesn't mean the guy who dropped the "hey, everybody, look at me, I'm SCUM!" hammer isn't scum. All this piling onto Zodiark and Hrez all the sudden (going so far as to say "I think they're scumbuddies" without presenting any connection tells) is really frickin' sketchy to me.

Why does everybody assume that bad posting comes from me . Bub said it... Not me... He is the bad guy.

Cele is not scum people. I'm just going to throw that read down. While is quick hammer was bad but, zodiark, hez, and don are 100% more scummy then cele.

@parama, Answer to my previous posts... that was the referred to dodge. I also agree 100% with the bob read. I still can't understand why he got wagoned.

Also, nice lynch. Hez is one of my top 3.

@my personal activity level, sorry for not posting much. I have had a busy week and I put more priority on my non hydra games. My posting will increase as some of my other games are winding down and require less attention.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

if you want discussion YOU MAKE DISCUSSION
YOU DONT JUST SIT THERE AND WATCH THINGS HAPPEN

pissed off for non mafia related reasons

congrats
you lynched town

Why didn't you make discussion instead of just sitting there and watching things happen?

Personally, I would have preferred a Zodiark lynch, but Hrez was still very scummy.

[CooLskins]

@ don,

I like how cooldog keeps saying "i think don is scum" but has completely failed to address any of dons recent posts.

Your "reacent posts" still don't scum hunt. Simply put you are active lurking. However, I'm willing to go with bub's judgment here... I also get the herz lynch. Herz was probably my third best scum read. Zodiark is second, don is first. Zodiark or don should get lynched tomorrow.

[CooLskins]

also this theme really gets to my eyes

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Vote: Zodiark

Still scum for the same reasons. I don't appreciate antihero's disappearance, though.

-bub

[CooLskins]

You are either terrible town or scum. Your play is beyond scummy regardless of my evidence that suggests you might not be scum. You are still the best suspect based on your atrocious treatment of this game from the very beginning. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I am. Knowing that you'd be my target, I wouldn't be surprised if you guys had someone else send in the NK.

Way to out yourself as a tracker. Also, nice WIFOM attack there. Paint my play as bad all you like, yours has been worse. I mean, having evidence to clear someone, and yet saying that you won't mention what it is just to let a player be lynched? As I said, scum looking for an easy lynch if ever there was.

He never had evidence to clear you. If he is a tracker, then he never really had any evidence regarding you because no scum team in their right mind would send you to do the kill.

[CooLskins]

Okay, I'm going to look back at the hrez wagon to look for people who pushed for hrez instead of zodiark. I'll be back with my results later.

-Bub

[CooLskins]

You know, I could do a very elaborate catch-up post telling all of you why we should lynch zodiark over bob. But I won't.

Here is the deal guys.

1) Bob is town. End of story. If he is scum I will eat my friggin' pants.
2)Zodiark is scum. If he is town I will eat my pants.

I will get around to doing a full re-read. However, I'm quite tired tonight and don't feel up to it.

[CooLskins]

Holy crap. Somebody please tell me why the hell we're lynching bobs instead of Zodiark. Zodiark virtually tatooed the words "I am scum" to his ass an then mooned the world. Seriously. He got caught in a major contradiction dealing with the mislynch he was currently pushing. He jumped around to all of the major wagons of the day and generated virtually zero positive content. And now we're scrapping the wagon on him for bobs? The whole wagon on bobs is contrived and scummy as hell. We weren't even talking about a bobs lynch until fitz came in and threw all sorts of crap out in a desperate attempt to save his scumbud (also, let me remind you that fitz is part of the same slot as kondi of "random unexplained L-1 vote on a townie" fame.)

We've caught two of the three scum (Zodiark and Fitz), and I'm betting that the third scum was somebody on the hrez lynch wagon. So I'm going resume my re-read of that wagon now.

[CooLskins]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

*Facepalm*

Allow me to redirect you back to the case I made against Zodiark earlier:

Crap!

Okay, to make sure I don't do that again, I'm changing the hydra theme to mobile. That way I'll never be able to mistake accounts again. Anyway, as to the case:

Okay, here's a more in-depth case that will hopefully fullfill Zodiark's needs. After producing virtually no content whatsoever on D-1, Zodiark posts this:

Hrezs, Zodiark, don, xvart, and kondi all need to post more; they all have 5 or less posts, and at least one of those is pregame for each.

-ponders for a moment-

-looks back at the quicklynch the day before-

-leers-

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Hows this work again? I came back to read the game and the thread was closed.

Also you just called

3

people scum, and said

2

more scum left?

Sounds like a scumslip.

Vote: Parama

Of note: I havent actually read day 1

Can you say epic reaching?

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Relavent part is bolded. Uses very strong language to indicate that he thinks celi is scum. Says that if celi isn't scum that he needs to relearn how to scumhunt. Next post:

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

Going back over the game, I feel I should point out the slight misrep here.

Wait, we've got a hydra in the game? Not too pleased about that.

yes actually. I believe I made it very clear in the queue that this is a hydra. If you are very much apposed to it (after talking to bub) we could easily replace out.

@Beck, okay, I just didn't want to have two complete noobs like we had last game that we played in.

@coolskins, I am a noob, I have played 1 newbie game. I will try not to damage your sanity too much.

CooLskins said, and I quote, that he "didn't want two complete noobs...", not that he didn't want to play with noobs full stop.

Makes some slightly irrelavent comments and does nothing to further the wagon on a person whom he thinks is certainly scum. Next post:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

I don't like this one bit. It reads of "I'm getting a little suspicion, so I'm going to claim to try to get into the 'obvtown' chair".

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but

Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown

. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

The bolded just makes dons claim worse. He conveniently forgot to mention that he doesn't know his neighbors alignment, which would be an important aspect of a claim, unless you are claiming solely for the sake of trying to make yourself obvtown.

Vote: don_johnson

Total 180. Almost right after he said:

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

= scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

He says:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly,

hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

So before it was "If you're not scum; I need to relearn how to scumhunt." but now it's "Oh, it isn't a massive scumtell." Oh, and look who you're voting for:

Vote: don_johnson

Only the number one wagon at the moment. And he mainly sheeps his reasons to boot. But wait:

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

bob has said 'Go look at Zodiark', then since then has harassed everyone for their opinion on me and deselby, without even posting a case, apart from the aforementioned "Look at him" and , against deselby, saying "I don't like how deselby is reacting to my CooLskins vote" and "You've outed yourself as scum lolololol". Yet, despite these "cases", you decided to pointlessly wagon Hrezs when the wagon against him hit full steam. Seriously, your last post is the closest you have come to providing any reason for voting, and its not even a reason.

UNVOTE
Vote: bobsnox

We're now voting for the next major wagon. So after saying in no uncertain terms that celi was scum, Zodiark unvotes him and vote for the biggest wagon. Then

in his very next post

he unvotes

again

and votes for the new biggest wagon. To paraphrase: "If Zodiark isn't scum, then I need to relearn how to scumhunt."

ARG!!! This theme makes my eyes bleed!

Oh, and he also instantly jumped onto bobsnox after his scumbud came in and made a crap case against bobs. That's interesting because it was the first time Zodiark voted for somebody who wasn't the lead wagon at the time, but that was only because Zodiark himself was the lead wagon.

[CooLskins]

Now lets catch-up in the correct account.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

Okay yeah, you are scum. Never made a case on bob, never really contributed to the game.

So right now we have all the smart people voting Zod, Zod trying to get bobsnox lynched, one of his scumbuddies in the neighbors assisting him, and the other neighbor being stupid. And havingfitz is making a fail and wasting his vote.
When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy. Should be easy enough. Seeing the wagon now, no way in hell both neighbors are town.

Perfect assessment of the situation.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

[goodposting="parama"]

Bwahahaha, dj's definitely the scum neighbor. "I think bobsnox is scum, and I think Parama is scum by association, so let me lynch the player who I feel is scum by association instead of the one who I feel is scum for actual reasons."
At least the Zodiark wagon's the leading wagon again

[/goodposting]
This is exactly what I'm thinking by reading his posts. He thinks he can get you lynch

over

bob right now, so he is going to push that.

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

not sure what to make of des placing someone at L-1 while trying to "wait" for replacements to post. parama claimed vt which means his lynch isn't an uber loss to town, so accelerating the counterwagon out of "fear" doesn't make sense at all. thanks des. way to tie yourself to parama.

bob: independent of your "track", how do you feel about parama and why?

I would sorta agree with this, if you actually quoted one of parama's posts in your case.

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

vote:Don Johnson

<- Bub should not change this vote. This vote stays, you hear me?

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions.

if

parama is your

scumbuddy

then

your actions make perfect sense.

the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama:

[wifom="OMG WIFOM"] i'm not scum[/wifom]

, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost,

the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him.

the fact is,

if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum

, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

I'm not going to say anything about this post. I'm just not going to. Look at the bolded stuffs. My eyes bleed.

Oh well.

Vote:Zodiark13

On second thoughts imag, maybe get a move on just in case someone does hammer....

This is the best tandem post I have seen in a while. I really loled.

Please compile a case so as I have something to respond to. "points from yesterday" doesnt give me much. Ill post more from home. I still think my neighbor is town, and odds put parama as town, but I cant post a lot from my phone. So yeah.

Try this: Defend every single post you have made about bob, zodiark, and parama. Also defend the bolded contridiction saying that you are now willing to hammer after nothing changed. And then get lynched.

Alert: If dj does not get lynched today I will be very upset. I will cry my wittle eyes out in swadness *sniffle*

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

[CooLskins]

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the

only

reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

[CooLskins]

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

[CooLskins]

I'm going to get to this first, before I get to don.

Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy.

I totally disagree with CooLDoG.

unvote; vote: zodiark

@xvart, Its not a flip flop. Its bub's view on zodiark. I personally have a null read on him atm.

I think CooLskins is scum. His opinion of Zodiark was soft/vague enough to allow to vote him if it came to it, and when pressure/speculation was put on them about that post, the other head comes back "woah I totally disagree he's obvscum". This flip flop is highly indicative of a scum relationship with their buddy. And the excuse "ooohh we are hydra, it's cool bro" doesn't cut it.

That's a misrepresentation of our stance on zodiark. I personally had zodiark as a null read. Bub on the other hand thought that zodiark was scummy. He made it very clear (to me at least) that our vote should be on zodiark. I trusted his judgment and that was it. If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

VOTE: CooLskins

I'm going to try to respond kindly to this next part see as it is completely full of shit and made up. A lesser man would vote your ass for even thinking about pulling this card. So I'm scum because I didn't have enough time to refute don's posts even though I explicitly stated that I would. And I'm non committal even though I have been avidly trying to get don lynched for over 2 days now? This is the definition of bullshit reasons. Stop chainsaw defing your neighbor that you yourself don't know his alignment.

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

Now lets catch-up in the correct account.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

Okay yeah, you are scum. Never made a case on bob, never really contributed to the game.

no, i didn't make a case on bob. i don't always make a case. nothing scummy about that. i clearly explain here that i am confused by bob's and parama's actions. i am also agreeing with posting by xvart. please see 474, 480, 491.

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

So right now we have all the smart people voting Zod, Zod trying to get bobsnox lynched, one of his scumbuddies in the neighbors assisting him, and the other neighbor being stupid. And havingfitz is making a fail and wasting his vote.
When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy. Should be easy enough. Seeing the wagon now,

no way in hell both neighbors are town

.

Perfect assessment of the situation.

bolded is the start of "one neighbor

must

be scum fallacy." zod was not doing much of anything. xvart had the lead in the case against bob. given the odd relationship between parama and bob, i didn't see zod's position as scummy.

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post... [/quote]
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

The bottom part is still speculation, and not really that logial at all. As a tracker you track your scummiest read to see if they kill. However, if that player is in fact scum and know that he is taking a lot of heat then one of his buddies will take the kill instead. In ine of my last scum games we knew that there was a tracker/watcher combo, we debated to the end of the night deadline who would submit the kill. Odly enough the tracker actually tracked one of my scum buddies. While bob is speculating about scum actions he is a tracker. Its almost his job to make an educated guess at who will submit the kill so that he can track that person to it.

[goodposting="parama"]

Bwahahaha, dj's definitely the scum neighbor. "I think bobsnox is scum, and I think Parama is scum by association, so let me lynch the player who I feel is scum by association instead of the one who I feel is scum for actual reasons."
At least the Zodiark wagon's the leading wagon again

[/goodposting]
This is exactly what I'm thinking by reading his posts. He thinks he can get you lynch

over

bob right now, so he is going to push that.

uh no. try reading:

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

in fact(snipped for brevity)you even say:

I would sorta agree with this, if you actually quoted one of parama's posts in your case.

what kind of things do you want me to quote? sorry, but giant quote walls are not something i try to do on a regular basis. if there is something you would like me to find and show you, tell me what that is and i will do it.

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

[qutoe]

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)[/quote]
Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions.

if

parama is your

scumbuddy

then

your actions make perfect sense.

the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama:

[wifom="OMG WIFOM"] i'm not scum[/wifom]

, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost,

the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him.

the fact is,

if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum

, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

I'm not going to say anything about this post. I'm just not going to. Look at the bolded stuffs. My eyes bleed.

first bolded part. yes, bob's actions make perfect sense if parama is his scumbuddy. you don't agree with that? scumtracker clearing his buddy? the two of them acting like they can clear each other pre-claim? sprry, but it read to me like they were both clearing each other and leaving the "role claim" up in the air. once bob claimed tracker, parama doesn't bat an eye. no "well that doesn't completely clear me, then", which is what a townie should admit. no, "oh, i thought you were cop." nothing.

Nope. You see if you happened to be in the majority of people that think bob was town (revelation: he was!!!!!!) then you don't go wifom speculating about who is the scum tracker and the like. And I just love how you outline exactly why his actions are scummy and associate him .

second bolded, no wifom, that was in response to parama accusing me of putting words in his mouth. i was explaining why i used the wording i did. you see, anyone can bold portions of a post and then say, "just read the bolded portions," and make a case. what you need to do, and what good townies do, is read the entire post. what you are doing is taking my statements out of context. if you read the rest of that paragraph you see exactly why i make the statement "i am not scum." that statement is only wifom when used in the context of "hey i made a case against you, defend yourself." and then you say "i'm not scum." thats wifom. using my knowledge of my alignment to explain why i said something, or why i think someone is misinterpreting something is not wifom.

ohhh gudy. I didn't think you go to the second bolded stuff. What response? I don't see no response? Mind showing us what that response was?
Ohh right you were the guy who didn't "do quote thingys". At part two of part two... It only takes a little bit of interpretation to see why "the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him." Fits with your previous posts saying that you think zodiark is not the best lynch, and this, "if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum" go together.

Try this: Defend every single post you have made about bob, zodiark, and parama.

Also defend the bolded contridiction saying that you are now willing to hammer after nothing changed.

And then get lynched.

and that brings me to the third bolded part. for that i bolded a portion of your post. you claim "nothing changed. except:

1) you reposted your case, which i read and stated was not bad.

2)

. zodiark seems to be getting the noose and doing very little to stop his own hanging, so lets get some imaginality and then proceed."

zodiark was not defending himself.

so yeah, nothing changed.[/sarcasm]

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

[/quote]

[CooLskins]

Due to catching up, not reading all the way through I found this quote (call it buddying if you want, but I really don't care):

It's not that I think there's one cum in the neighborhood due to that fallacy.
it's that I think there' one scum in the neighborhood because I have a strong scumread in the neighborhood <.<
Though neither neighbor being on the Zod wagon yesterday helps my theory anyways :/

This explains perfectly my opinion of the neighbor situation. I personally don't think xvart is scum, and I think don is scum. Thus there is one scum in the neighborhood.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the

only

reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part)

well

.

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

You were doing so well until... Actually this is a good time for me to tell you guys that I agree with bub on the above. I just think that don is much more scummy and should be lynched. Fitz is my #2.

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

can you explain this one a bit more? i'm not really following what you're saying.

Basically it boils down to the question "why post believe you me that I can tear apart your case and show you how faulty it is but I don't have time to do so right now, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow. But just believe me that it is terrible." There is no town motivation to saying anything like that (and if there is I can't think of it) so the only thing is trying to squash it before it goes anywhere with the subtlety I can do this and I will (later).

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for

creating a crap case on now-confirmed town

to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Referring to my bolded emphasis I assume you are talking about me since fitz is voting me, but how am I confirmed town now?

Try reading where I said maybe tomorrow. And below you should be good enough to satisfy you.

Also my left mouse button has gone out. I have to press both left and right buttons at the same time to click. Its rather humorous...

[CooLskins]

I will be getting to xvarts post shortly.

[CooLskins]

That's a misrepresentation of our stance on zodiark. I personally had zodiark as a null read. Bub on the other hand thought that zodiark was scummy. He made it very clear (to me at least) that our vote should be on zodiark. I trusted his judgment and that was it. If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

It's not a misrepresentation at all. It's a accurate account of what actually happened. I absolutely cannot stand it when hydra heads post contradictory reads in game because doing so under any circumstances is scummy; however, I did understand that it is an unfortunate byproduct of being a schizophrenic hydra. The point that I am making is your contradictory reads is uniquely scum motivated, especially now that Zodiark has flipped scum.

One head came in and said "Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy", which is a pretty middle of the road thing to say, leaving the door open for saying "well I suppose those things I said earlier could be scummy so I'll go ahead and vote my buddy now." At the time of this post Zodiark had 2 votes.

Again, you seem to not understand English here. I personally (CooLDoG) did not find zodiark scummy. Bub on the other hand (meaning that he differs in opinion fyi) thought that zodiark was scummy and was worth a lynch. Sense I didn't have a strong town read on him I went along with it.
Read next fucking time.

Then, in the very next post, bobnox calls your slot scum for that post, and two posts later the other head comes in and says "woah I totally disagree and Zodiark is obvscum." That head unilaterally changes your stance on Zodiark without even suggesting that "I am in disagreement, I need to talk about this with my other head because he's not seeing what I see" like I would think a town hydra would. The 180 turn around is inherently scum motivated and the lack of interest in convincing the other head looks like a cover up for such a soft read on a buddy.

We did talk about it. I still had a null read on him. Yet bub was very strongly opinionated about zodiark being scum for the contradiction that he made before. I trusted his opinion and went ahead with the vote. You should really wait for bub to repond to this.

If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

Thanks for your permission but I am already voting you.

Your welcome

I'm going to try to respond kindly to this next part see as it is completely full of shit and made up. A lesser man would vote your ass for even thinking about pulling this card.

1

So I'm scum because I didn't have enough time to refute don's posts even though I explicitly stated that I would.

2

And I'm non committal even though I have been avidly trying to get don lynched for over 2 days now?

³

This is the definition of bullshit reasons. Stop chainsaw defing your neighbor that you yourself don't know his alignment.

⁴

Not only are you missing my point but you are inaccurately assigning motives to my commentary.

1

This sentence is extremely strange. If anyone else would have voted me because of what I said does that make what I said :

• Scummy;
  
• Not scummy but people might inadvertently think it is scummy; or,
  
• Something else?

Really, though, why aren't you voting me if everyone else would be because saying you're a bigger person because you aren't voting for me doesn't really say much about you being town.

2

Your refutation of don's points came almost 36 hours after you lambasted don. What was the point of coming in to the thread and

only

saying "your case is terrible and I'll destroy every part of it later. I'm just too busy now"? I can see town saying "I'll respond to those points when I have more time" or anything else, but the level of emotion in your post indicates that there is some other motivation.

3

This is debatable, but is entirely beside the point. While you are pretty adamant about getting don lynched you do waffle enough when you posted about the pm error stuff. Again, I don't see the relevance of your relationship with don to your scummy behavior.

4

Explain to me the "chainsaw defense" of my neighbor and how me not knowing his alignment has anything to do with your comment. I'm not defending don and the person you made your comment to has no bearing on my commentary on your posting. My concerns were unique to what you said and not to whom you said it.


Finally, I don't really want this to be misconstrued as the crux of the argument in favor of you being scum. It is really only a sidepoint and

the basis of you being scum is your connection/contradiction/backpedaling under pressure with regard to flipped scum Zodiark.

Plus, I still want to know how I am confirmed town.

1)Hyperbole do you speak it? It was really just a rage joke. I swear officer I was not smoking that pot while driving, I swear.
2) So because I have a life, and because I do not have infinte amount of time, I must be scum. Perfect lets lynch don for not posting all of d1 and d2. Ohh wait, you are defending him... So we can't
3)I do not comprehend this pm stuff. I personally don't like to speculate if someone is telling to truth in pm communication while scum unting. I personally think that don is not telling the truth, but that does not belong in my assessment of don. But I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, Could you re-word it?
4)Attacking someones attacker out of the blue. Also you are defending don's actions... However, I think you are town. Fitz/don are the last two scum. Don dies today period.

final:
Ask bub this question. All that I can say was that at the time of zodiark's lynch I had a null to slightly scummy (as some of his posts under pressure made me lean towards scum). I do know that bub had a very very strong read on zodiark. That is why I went along with the vote.

Plus: You are not confirmed town. Its just hat I personally think that you are a townie. I think you have a scum neighbor though...

@fitz, I think most of that is directed at bub, but I'll get to it.

[CooLskins]

Fitz, all of that is directed to bub. I will let him take it. He will be able to answer to you better.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

@dese;by. I think the scum could have gotten bobsnox lynched. I think too m any stupid townies would have followed onto the bobsnox wagon. So now I have two mega posts to do? Getting to the first one...

[CooLskins]

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

ad hom

.

And your point is?

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

not sure what you mean here. i already explained my thoughts. i never made a case on bob other than agreeing with points xvart made,

and

pointing out that i found the parama/bob interaction wierd. when was i an "avid" pusher of bobscum? thats

misrep

.

^ohh yeah you were after bob in d2/d3 for a long time. Your really thought you could have got him lynched. I wonder why you killed him at night though. And You said that your vote on bob was because it
[quote="donjohnson #493]This isnt fitting together at all.[/quote]
And just to say. In your big bob case thing. You unvoted bob and then voted for parama. This isn't fitting together. Don could be voting for town people on purpose.

[qutoe="don"]

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

zod was ineffectively defending himself, and towards the end he just seemed to be lurking. i already referenced several posts xvart made. its funny how you quote my posts, but don't seem to be reading them. maybe you would prefer i make a quote wall out of posts 474, 480, 491? i thought if i gave you the post numbers then you could go and read the posts instead of flooding the thread with giant walls of repetitive text.

omission

.[/quote]
^So lets try another one of your flip flops. Post numbers 493, and 499. What changed in bob that you unvoted him there?
On point, So even though in post number 483,

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

After this the only post that zodiark makes is the post to hammer himself. What changed? What cahnged between that half page that made you think zodiark was scum over your top two scum reads.

Also this:

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post...
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

oh. i see. you want me to quote the thread to point out the bob/parama connection? well. ok. i thought it was obvious, but since you can't wrasp your head around it, here are the posts:

YES! SHOW US WHERE PEOPLE SAID THAT! Now I can actually wiegh your reads of of mine. We can now put the whole you not building a case off of bob thing to rest and concentrate on you defending known scum pretty hard. As well you rapidly turning around when said scum was about to get lynched.

Parama - I think Coolskins and deselby are buddies. Do you see why? I'll explain but I want tonsee if it jumps out to anyome else like it did to me.

Parama's hrezs vote threw me off but I don't think he's scum.

He's not today's lynch

.

Again,

Parama is not today's lynch

.

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I.

SHHHH! I told you, I warned you about stares man! They're staring at us! Why did you let them in on our scumbuddy secret?

don if I gave you any more hints it'd be anti-town posting. just accept that bob is town and move on with your life.

so yeah. i thought everyone noticed this. apparently not.

You could see a connection here. However, I don't think it is as bad as you think. But hay, it could have been worth a vote in d2.

[quote"don"]

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

i don't get what you are saying here. i have been pointing out what i have found scummy. sometimes posts aren't scummy. sometimesd its the players voting pattern. sometimes its one simple move they make that seems like it has scum motivation. again: if you want quotes, you will need to be specific. then i can get you quotes. if you don't know what you're looking for, i can't help you. [/quote]
just more harping about how you can misrep people by not quoting posts. Again, this has been solved by the above post by you.

[qutoe="don"]

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)

Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?[/quote]

bob was not "my most powerful scum read".

misrep

. my other scum read(parama) was not based off of bob being scum.

misrep

. zodiark was never "one of my most powerful town reads."

misrep

. see what you did there? you completely ignored the post you quoted and then made up shit to fit your case. please quote a post that explains the bob/parama connection where my parama scum read is based off of bobscum. hint: you can't find it. i speculated on the idea of them being a scumpair, but you are misrepping the suspicion.[/quote]
I think that other people will be able to judge from this post that you made.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

And your very next post:

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

And you dfenitly thought that parama and bob were buddies. Yout htought that parama was scum by association with bobsnox. Just read some of the stuff above that you quoted, and this:

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start. the

bob parama connection is odd

to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play

. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier.

[edit: in reference to bob] absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob.

bob didn't mind,

i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, w

hy isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop?

excuse me tracker.

so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed.

parama is going along with it without question.

odd.

Actually I think Bob is mentioned in that post more then parama, but what ever. And Now are you still willing to lynch parma?

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

never had bob/parama at 100%. if you find a quote where i used the term 100%, then i will self vote.

misrep

. reads didn't go "out the window." they moved along a perfectly logical line of thought. going from thinking "zod might be town" to "zod is not standing up for himself

at all

and so might be scum," actually makes sense.

Come on. It is obvious that your two biggest scum reads were bob/parama. DO I have to quote ever post that you made about them? You were willing to lynch both of them weren't you. Almost every single one of your d3 posts are about bob and parama being scum together. Just look at your own iso. Don't tell me that you weren't convinced of them being

town

scum.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

the vote isn't doing anything. i have much more i want to discuss. i still have to respond to des' latest posting i think.

'fraid of a quick lynch?

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the only reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part) well.

not only is this not articulated well, but it is an entire misrep of my position, packed with the ommission of the effects of the zodiark flip. well done.

vote: coolskins

[/quote]
I'll post about this too even though it is directed at bubers.

Actually it isn't. Why aren't you voting for parama now? He was clearly your second scum read. Don't tell me he wasn't. Also omgus for what its worth .

[CooLskins]

fail, quote tags are fail.

I will get to xvarts post later today, when I have more time.

Also Some time today I will arse bub into posting about fitz.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Okay, catching up. CooLDoG really sucks at quote tags BTW.

---

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

Coolskins...can you provide a quote where don made the statements you are attributing to him above?

Certainly.

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly.

i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment

, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

^Don saying that his case on parama was not based off of association with Bob^

the xvart/parama connection and why i think they are town

parama is town due to statistical improbability of him being scum, imo. if parama is scum, then that would mean that bob successfully tracked scum two different scum, two nights in a row, both of whom were vanilla and neither of whom tried to kill anyone. there is a small window where parama can be scum, but if he is, he has most likely already won the game, so i have to go by numbers, and statistic improbability is generally reliable.

xvart is town based on his level headed posting. even though he made a case against bob(confirmed town), the case had merit and pointed out several inconsistencies in bobs play. also, and here's the kicker, bob came after me early which is a bad play for scum. the "one neighbor must be scum" fallacy is a common case, and if xvart was scum it would not be in his best interest to have me flip town. secondly, i detailed my suspicions of parama/bob in the qt at night. the way i initially read their play was that i thought they might be claiming "masons", which made no sense with neighbors in the game. x and i briefly discussed this, but when i brought to his attention that they were confirming each other he said he didn't even notice. xvartscum should have immediately relayed that to the scum qt which should have led to a bob/parama nk, because the logical explanation is that one of them was cop. but they both lived through the night.

therefore, the only way i can see xvart scum is with paramascum. xvart would have brought his knowledge to the qt, and parama would have said "no, he has me confirmed somehow, lets see if we can use him. seeing as how they then lynched scum with parama infull force, i highly doubt this scenario.

therefore i believe them both to be town.

^Don saying Parama is town solely off of the fact that bob flipped^

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

So I should be lynched today but you're voting don. "Scummy pie?" Why is my crap case and how the he|| is xvart confirmed town? And what scumbud am I protecting by voting xvart? don? You're just making shit up as you type...aren't you? Speaking of making shit up, I never said this, "didn't really notice Zodiark." Are you that _____ to completely fabricate a quote in order to substantiate suspicions on someone? Your comments re: bob are ridiculous...I noticed him because he was the scummiest player IMO until I reconsidered his claim. And why is someone who made 5 posts early in the game the basis for thinking I am worth a vote? What did kondi do that was so scummy and did antihero do anything to add to those suspicions?

Wow, you totally misunderstood everything I said there, bucko. Bobsnox was the confirmed town that I was referring to. You made a crap case on a now-confirmed town (bobsnox) simply to protect your scumbud (Zodiark). I think the confusion arises from Xvart when he said:

Referring to my bolded emphasis I assume you are talking about me since fitz is voting me, but how am I confirmed town now?

Which was a total misunderstanding.

Also, I admit that you never said "didn't really notice Zodiark". You said:

Zodiark did not stand out in my read

Which essentially means the same thing. Score one for scum-spin.

Coolskins...you guys are the worst hydra I ever ever played with. You don't seem to agree with each other and you keep making excuses based on the other's play.

You know how much I love positive reinforcement.

[quote="Imagine]Also, on reading AntiHero and havingfitz's interactions with Zodiark, I'm having doubts about my earlier read on them. I think my points against them are reasonable, and the L-1 vote on Beck is clearly worse than the xvart's on the hrezs wagon. But, looking more at AH and havingfitz's interactions with Zodiark as per havingfitz's request, I see AntiHero was first to point out Zodiark's contradiction, which led to the wagon on him. But, if this was bussing, agreed in advance, then havingfitz would have stuck with AntiHero's scum-read on Zodiark when he replaced in, rather than weakening.[/quote]

I disagree completely. Antihero spent most of his time attacking Celiboski, who was an easy scumtarget for a mislynch becaue of the hammer. Also, he didn't push Zodiark much at all, and he only mentioned the slip in passing. I don't think that bit is enough to dismiss the otherwise very strong case against the fitz player slot.

-Bub

[CooLskins]

Don's 180 on us is interesting, because it appears to be a scum appeal to get us of his wagon and to sound more reasonable. I also find it funny that only now (after a long text wall war) does Don actually look back to determine if we are scummy or not.

-Bub

[CooLskins]

Am I going to have to read all of this? Apparently...

I might have to do this over two posts... or more.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Coolskins...you guys are the worst hydra I ever ever played with. You don't seem to agree with each other and you keep making excuses based on the other's play. If I didn't think xvart was scum you would be my top suspect. The only reason I don't atm is today's interactions with xvart and your D3 crusade against Zodiark.

okay, "Since these two people do not have the exact same point of view they must be scum" argument. Great, its worth a vote for sure!

* the much-discussed change of read on Zodiark
* 310 - regards don's role pm discussion (245,254) as a strong town read, then drops this point completely when he attacks him later
* 321 - trying to defend his read as 'no worse than' than Zodiark's contradiction
* 416 - listing Zodiark in his number 2 scum spot while supporting the lynch of a townie
* 518 - the 'seriously, why hasn't [fitz] been lynched yet' sounds off, gut-wise
* 557 - accusing xvart of chainsaw-defending don_johnson by attacking CooLskins
* bonus: pretty sure only one of CooLskins and don_johnson is scum based on the way they've been arguing, so it makes sense to lynch one of the two, and CooLskins looks scummier to me

1) Don keeps asking and so I keep giving. Until people understand what our actual position(s) were, then I will have to keep explaining.
2) That's bub ask him. But its all wifom bullshit (don pm having scum qt. Why hasn't he told us who had posted in there? Why wasn't the game re-randomed?).

@Don, who had posted in that there scum qt?

3) How do you know that don is town????????????????????? Or are you talking about my

#3

scum suspect?
4) Gut gut gut....
5) 557, and how has he not? Chainsaw def only works once we have a flip, so lets lynch don. No really there is no reason what so ever for don to be alive. I would self hammer myself right here and now if you guys promised to lynch don. That's no joke.
6) vote for don. If he flips town then you can lynch me. Or vise versa if you prefer.
----------

good posting

I am so tempted to quote that fucker

. No really. All of those points outline why don should get lynched right now. I want to see don's response.

-----

I've only been in one game with CoolDog before and he came across as a major Vi IMO...the fact he did not suspect Zodiark prior to Bub placing their Zodiark vote on D2 means little to me. The fact is...they could have easily put bobsnox (who came across as scummy to me prior to his claim) at L-1 without bringing more support to a scumbuddie's wagon. And then to immediately jump on the Zodiark wagon again on D3 just seems like excessive and unneccesary bussing.

tl:dr; Despite Coolskins' crap play I am inclined to think he is town. Despite xvart's very well spoken and rational play...you can not ignore his actions which have been completely in line with benefitting scum. Three days worth of vote outcomes point a VCA straight your way.

So now I'm town? What changed?

Here is a good place to insert this:
IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER WHO IS NEIGHBORED TO WHO. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT WE HAVE DON PLAYING REALLY SCUMMY AND HE NEEDS TO BE LYNCHED. ONCE HE FLIPS SCUM THEN START WIFOMING THE SHIT OUT OF THE NEIGHBOR STUFF. HIS ROLE IS (in this case) IRRELEVANT TO HIS SCUMMINESS.
------------

Fine...based primarily on his vote outside of his three person lynch pool I'll accept his suspicion. If he flips scum neighbor I'll apologize to confirmed town xvart be he dead or alive. don scum will point to dselby IMO. don town should focus attention on xvart.

VOTE: don_johnson

Again, just because don flips scum does not mean that xvart is cleared. They could scum gambit neighbor claim. However, I feel that that is unlikely because IO have a town read on xvart. A+ vote, we need more of them.
---------

Good stopping point so I can read over the don responses.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

I don't want to refute for someone, but some things really stand out.

i was not part of the quick lynch on a town power role. my comment came well before the scumminess occurred.

This is irrelevant. Just because you were not on the lynch wagon does not mean you didn't support with it or agree with it.
The post quoted (

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

) heavily implies that you agree with the wagon, and that lynching him would be a good lynch.

see, i can do it to. silly parama, the beck wagon was good when i said it was good. later, it turned ugly. not my fault. last i heard, not mislynching townies is a town tell.

Yet you still thought it was a good lynch. And also keep in mind that you are talking retroactively about the wagon. Your thoughts about the wagon (and what you "thought" about then might be skewed) now are most certainly heavily swayed by the town flip. But you didn't post much of anything d-1, so you are excused.

i didn't dodge the question. the question was stupid. you even said so yourself.

If it was so stupid why didn't you link to a post where you scum hunted???????????????????????? It aparently wasn't stupid because you weren't able to answer it. Link me a post prior to that one where you were actually scum hunting. And link me to a post that you made that is "pro-town", and beak it up shpwing exactly how it is pro-town. Do this or get hounded by me. I will trash your wiki page <- I hope that comes out as a joke.


ooops the next one is bad....
[quote"

parama

"]1. "lack of a sense of humor" isn't a scumtell
2. link me some games?
3. so you knew enough to know that there was a wagon on Beck, and that he lacked a sense of humor, one of your "scumtells", yet you "weren't paying enough attention" to justify voting him? BS.[/quote]

1. we disagree.
2. no. that's mildly retarded. if you want to sift through my games, feel free. i don't live in the past.
3. no bs. but i guess all i can do is say what i say. you are obviously tunneled at this point(or like, a week ago.) and yet, you're still alive even though i pointed out the blatant connection between you and bob early on. and bob lived the night after that as well. hm. if you are town, you should start using your brain.

1) Show us why.
2) SO you can't prove it? PROVE to US WHY IT IS A SCUM TELL. And why are you not answering the question. Stop justifying your bullshit reasons.
3) One helluva dodge.

moving on now...

?? thats a bit of a stretch. if you characterize my post as a "soft defense of zod", then you also have to characterize blok's post as the same. he couldn't defend the hammer because it was terrible.

I hope parama gets onto your harder deffing of zodiark. You were defending him though. Look up some of my walls and you will find the quotes...

uh. no. not responsible AT FUCKING ALL. I was nowhere near this thread while you idiots were lynching a claimed fucking power role. so sorry. my "beck wagon is good" came before the claim. lynching a claimed town power role without a counterclaim on day one is dumb. everyone who participated in the lynch after the claim is dumb. are we clear?

So it was a great wagon and I supported it, but because I didn't vote on it, i'm not responsible. Get lynched.

[CooLskins]

Thanks des. On my phone now. Ill answer the rest tomorrow night, but quickly, if you reread 599 skins is not in the lynch pool. Id feel more comfortable if you unvoted for a while. I will be busy the next few days and I would like to be sure and get some final thoughts into the thread if I am to be lynched.

Ok, I misread that post. Retract point 3).

unvote

, we have enough time, but my vote is still "on" you.

fuck you. We should have lynched don over the week end. I took the weekend off (as well as monday). And I come back and see don st6ill alive. Pathetic excuse for a town.

@xvart, top 3 scums, as well as Havingfitz.

[quote="fitz]

I don't think you are town₁

....

but as I do not know who is town and who isn't²

, doubt comes into play.

I didn't care for the fact that don had a pool of three players he thought was scum but was voting outside of that pool³

so parama was able to talk me into switching. In case you did not notice, the aforementioned doubt led to an unvote so the "terrible vote hop" is no more (atm).[/quote]
1) SO you have no town reads on d-4. Correct?
2) So you have no scum reads on d-4. Correct?
3)So you are easily swayed by other people and you helplessly sheep them. Correct?

Can we lynch this guy tomorrow? Please, please, I have candy, and a rope.


Lynch don now. No really, don is scum to the bone. Lynch me if I'm wrong.

I'm gonna cluster PM bub about posting to xvart.

[CooLskins]

@CooLskins, would you support a havingfitz lynch today?

Yes I would. Both bub and I agree that he is the 3rd scum. Bub actually has him over don on his scum list. I will let bub write up the case on fitz because he seems very adamant about it. We both agree that both don and fitz are scum, so ether one can eat rope today.


Hmmm... fitz is at l-1. I called bub to ask him if he thinks we should hammer. He said he is 95% sure that don is scum. I'm hovering around 85-90.

unvote... vote: havingfitz

)yes, if he flips town we are screwed, we get that.)

Sorry parama, but we will have to lynch don tomorrow. Also I did not read the two newest walls. So I can't comment on them. I'll read them along with a don iso during the night phase.
~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

PS.

=========================[]

I always wanted to do that.

[CooLskins]

vote: don

You guys know why. Don/des scum team is where I am at.

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

@xvart, claim would be irrelevant. Don dies today. I called this guy out on d-2. Its incredible he has lasted so longer. Full marks for wiggling.