Mortal Kombat Mafia (Game Over: Mafia Win)

[Toogeloo]

I'm not familiar with pre-existing Grudge Matches before this game started, what's the deal with CooLDoG and Fate?

Vote: CooLDoG

(PEdit: and Ludi and Mastin)

[Toogeloo]

Why is it 14 to select a Kombatant btw? 25 players, wouldn't that be 13 for majority?

[Toogeloo]

We have to "lynch" twice. We'll have plenty of time.

Actually, it only takes one vote on someone else to make that person a kombatant as well since the rules state the two players with the highest amount of votes go against each other. Technically, the player getting the most votes will more than likely get to choose their opponent if all other votes are on him, which is why I think they get to talk during the Kombat phase (it allows the person with the most votes to build a case against his opponent).

[Toogeloo]

Ahem. I fucked that up, haven't read my PM through.

Lemme think about this first.

UNVOTE

ITT:
Scum didn't read the first couple pages and see a Miller claim already and thought they could get away with one themselves.

unvote;
vote: springlullaby

[Toogeloo]

By the way, how have you not read your PM? You had to confirm through it before we started playing the game. I imagine you had to have at least read through to that part, right?

[Toogeloo]

Alright
1. I think there is a chance Bunnylover and I are both town. I had forgotten this was a large theme.
2. But checking up on Ermac, I don't see why that would be a miller role.

Statement 1 says you think you both are Millers (if you think BL is town, then you think he is Miller).
Statement 2 tries to discredit BL's claim to being a Miller.

[Toogeloo]

The part of your PM that indicated your way of confirmation, ie. what the first two parts of the statement are referring to.

Also, I will not acknowledge selective quoting. Your post has a clear disconnect in delivery that appears as though you are trying assuage the suspicion on you and then immediately leap to a claim. Me pointing out what appears to be a logic fallacy didn't have anything to do with your claim, so I didn't feel it needed to be posted with the quote.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote
Vote: Palisades

That should lock Palisades into the fight. I would prefer Springlullaby be the second fighter personally because I found her more scummy from the whole Miller shenanigans, but I'm wondering if there is some further strategy involved in making sure we get rid of the person we want to get rid of when a fight starts. If the majority of people want Palisades gone, then what's the point of sticking a Miller in the Pit with them? Why not put someone no one wants to get rid of in the Ring and make it a slam dunk "Flawless Victory"?

[Toogeloo]

Why not put someone no one wants to get rid of in the Ring and make it a slam dunk "Flawless Victory"?

Five words.

What if Palisade claims cop?[/quote]
Palisade is already going into the ring, we should get a claim from them before we even get to a second participant, because same argument could be made that "What if one claims cop and the other claims Doc?" If Palisade claims any kind of power though, are we just going to believe it and quickly get a Miller in there and lynch the Miller instead?

@Bunnylover: I'd like more flavor on you please. Specifically I'm going to leave out one major element of my role, please fill.

c. My being a miller is considered a XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. (Please fill in the xxxx)

Here you are looking for a specific phrase.
Yet, here...

@ BUNNYLOVER

@Kise: I'm not sure what that means.
I think it means that my miller is an ability so basically its like this
xxxxxxx(miller passive) - description.
If so, then yes its like that in my pm.
The passive is called Former Evil Slave.

This check out with my PM. My miller status is indeed indicated as a passive ability. Although my role is called Reformed Black Dragon Leader.
The fact that our roles seem to be checking out with each other make me think that we are both town and that mod just decided to have fun.

This make me wonder about the following:

Pali, The Fonz, Spring, MOS = leaning scum.

Why do you think I'm leaning scum considering the above?

Also, my role clearly state that scum are called the Black Dragons. Is it the same in your role PM?

You are fine with it not being exact at all.

Based simply on my own role, I think EVERYONE has a passive and an alignment. So being a "Former Evil Slave" or "Reformed Black Dragon Leader" are not the same thing. I could look at my PM and just tack on an adjective to my affiliation and change it however I want too.

Vote:
Springlullaby

[Toogeloo]

Based simply on my own role, I think EVERYONE has a passive and an alignment. So being a "Former Evil Slave" or "Reformed Black Dragon Leader" are not the same thing. I could look at my PM and just tack on an adjective to my affiliation and change it however I want too.

Vote:
Springlullaby

May I inquire as to how you know this? Not asking for a claim.

I have a passive that states my affiliation, which I know the entire town cannot also share (because there are not enough members of this affiliation), and that it describes I am aligned with town.

[Toogeloo]

See, I think Spring didn't read the thread and just thought she could get a Miller claim out there. Since then she has been trying to figure out how to make it passable. She first retracted it, almost as if she was going to take back the Miller thing like she hadn't read her PM thoroughly. Then she tried to fish the Miller condition out of BL, which ended up failing. I think she was hoping for BL to state what makes Millers scan the way they do, and instead BL came out with "Former Evil Slave," which made Spring have to come up with a way to make them look like they could still be Millers, and she just came up with the "Reformed" thing.

[Toogeloo]

I had a suspicion at what you were hinting at yesterday CD. You made it a little obvious you had scanning power in posts #226 and #231, I'd be wary of that in future games.

Vote: WLC

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Amrun

Don't care who it is though. Will switch my vote to make it faster if necessary since we've already killed any potential discussion today with the speed of CooLDoG's claim.

[Toogeloo]

Choose: WLC

[Toogeloo]

What is this....
I dont even....


He SAID he got a guilty in you. Why are you saying he got an innocent on you?

Why would he think your scum if he got a innocent on you?

He isnt so stupid.

If he got a guilty on Amrun, he would have voted Amrun first thing of the day. He voted Palisades.

In fact, he said he thought Amrun was WLC's partner, which would make Amrun a Black Dragon, not an Earthrealm Invader.


I believe Reck was stating he thought Muffin was probably Scum, and of the opposite faction of Amrun. Metaing a tad, and I'm not sure if this should even be taken into account, but Reck gave 4 Bah's when he died, and Muffin is the 4th name on the list... I could be reaching a bit, but not sure if that is coincidence, or even if he was (or should) be talking in code, so I probably will drop it at that. But kiwi is wrong about Reck stating he had a guilty on Amrun, that much I am sure.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: GW

[Toogeloo]

I think Reck was stating that Muffin was the one trying to paint him as scummy, not Amrun.

PEdit: Reck DID vote Palisades out the gate Day 2, after voting for him Day 1 as well. Wouldn't he have scanned Pali Night 1, just to be sure?

[Toogeloo]

I think Reck was stating that Muffin was the one trying to paint him as scummy, not Amrun.

PEdit: Reck DID vote Palisades out the gate Day 2, after voting for him Day 1 as well. Wouldn't he have scanned Pali Night 1, just to be sure?

We're not lynching Amrun because of Reck AT ALL. I've been trying to put Amrun up for death since Day 1, until Kise wrecked it, and then Day 2 we had a slam dunk so we couldn't kill Amrun yet. We've got another slam dunk today, but we might as well keep putting Amrun in the ring every day until we get a chance to actually finish the job.

Why are you trying to kill Amrun? He's not a Black Dragon, and the case on him yesterday was that he was trying to protect WLC, who was a Black Dragon.

[Toogeloo]

That was Reck's case. I've been trying to lynch Amrun since Day 1.

Also, how do you know he's not a black dragon?

Unvote, Vote: GhostWriter

I'm not throwing ABR up there with him.

Also, Amrun is still scum, and it has nothing to do with Reck being a cop.

However tempting it is to go ahead and place my vote on amrun, I can't. Sadly, amrun is town. I copped her last night. Simply because the association tell on her being scum WITH WC. I was sold on her, too bad.

vote: GW

There are two scum teams. This is confirmed.

[Toogeloo]

Why are we bickering over who is going into the arena with confirmed scum? Discussion is nice, but at the end of the day, just put the person with the most votes in there for a knock out of Ghost.

Vote: Palisades

[Toogeloo]

Scum having an ability to kill the other opponent ignoring votes seems a little OP in any kind of LyLo/MyLo scenario.

[Toogeloo]

<b>I will be V/LA from the 23rd to the 29th.</b>

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP:

I will be V/LA from the 23rd to the 29th.

Surely.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Toogeloo

Nice slip.
Man, we don't even need another power role guilty claim to continue our streak, time to go 3 for 3.

If you think the html thing is some kind of slip, you would be wrong. I had spent the majority of my day at this site:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Including Mafia:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefa ... s/60048878
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/575926-mafia


GameFAQs uses those stupid < and > html things, and you have to type them in since they don't have the nifty little [

B

] button like we have here. Since I have been spending the day getting ready for vacation and playing mafia at the same time, I got a little exhausted and forgot which site uses which tags.

I will just claim now though if this is going to get out of hand, because I am leaving in a few hours and won't have any time to defend myself further than this .

[Toogeloo]

FULLCLAIM NOW TOOGELOO

Jax, Vanilla Kombatant.
Ground Pound is my voting ability.
I am considered an Earthrealm Warrior.

[Toogeloo]

choose: palisade

[Toogeloo]

ABR was killed by a Shuriken Shower AND a Heart Rip. That sounds like Reiko and Kano by my research, and I think that is one from each side (Earthrealm Invader and Black Dragon). Burned to death sounds like Scorpion, so I imagine that is Vig since I don't think Scorp falls in either category. Head Devoured is either Mileena or Reptile; I think Reptile makes more sense, since isn't Mileena allied with Kitana (thus making her a town member)?


I missed most of the Day yesterday, but I did read through Oversoul's "gambit."

Why in the hell would you try to claim Masons with a claimed Vanilla, Oversoul? Even if you managed to get that worked out perfectly, you can't honestly expect anyone to have bought it, right? With me leaving for Yellowstone for a week just after my claim, I'm pretty sure I would have claimed Mason and may or may not have named my partner, just to ensure I wouldn't have had to worry about it while I was gone, not Vanilla.

[Toogeloo]

No... Mileena is definitely the person doing the head devouring. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Mileena was a lyncher to Kitana. In all of your research, I don't understand how you missed that painfully obvious fact.

I only researched Fatalities and was just going off what I remembered from MK II, MKIII, and the original MK movie (Kitana was good there). I thought they were like Sisters or something, but clones makes sense.

Why wouldn't I try to divert the nightkills onto Vanilla Townies? That way we wouldn't have lost anymore power roles, which are rapidly declining.

In every game I've played with Masons, Masons aren't killed until closer to Do or Die. While they are confirmed town, they are also mostly harmless. Scum would more than likely take shots at other people they think are Power instead. In this game we still had claimed power alive in CooLDoG, so I imagine he still presented a more lucrative target over "Masons" simple because he was at least half confirming people to be not scum, and Kano is still out there for sure with the Heart Rip. I still maintain no one would have believed you with my Vanilla claim previously though.

I actually agree with this. Prior to today, I was working off the assumption that there are two different scum factions (you know, 2 specific millers 2 specific cops, etc), but this game makes a lot more sense if we assume there's only one scum faction in this game (a combination of black dragon invaders).

I'm still kind of operating off the assumption there are two teams. CooLDoG may have hit one Black Dragon already, but he was also half confirming several people as well. With a lack of claimed power out at the moment, the Invaders may have felt he was too dangerous to their own alignment as well as players were getting narrowed down.



Going over T-Bone's ISO, I think either he never used his power, or he used it on BL/Ludi early.

He has a ton of Snake hate in his ISO, especially with:

Vote: SnakeComing in, and not reading the thread, only to contribute to the two vote hammer on Amrun yesterday that the majority of us specifically asked NOT to happen, killing all discussion we had going on.I wanna put Snake and the second person in the pit today. (That'd be Cooldog, and Muffinman with the late hammer, but sigh one is confirmed town)Definitely Snake because Snake needs to die, regardless of who else we throw in the pit.

Kill Snake with death please. (after we kill the outted scum of course)

Well anyway, kill Snake with death for randomly coming in and ending all discussion yesterday.

Vote: Snake

Kill him with death!

..But Snake never posted more than a single line that could be asked if it would be truth or lie. So I think that is just T-Bone acting on his gut.

However over the course of his ISO, he states he thinks Ludi is town, and he brings up question about spring's Miller status and it's strength (but the way he asks it, sounds like he possibly lie detected Bunny because of the comparison question).

[Toogeloo]

Toog, thats a rather big post with not much relevance.

There is a lot of relevance to the post for my own scum hunting. For one, I am trying to determine Oversoul's reactions to my questions to truly determine whether or not he is scum. At the moment, I am going with my original gut (and reason I didn't vote him to death yesterday) that he is town who made a stupid mistake. Vibe I am getting is that he wouldn't [as scum] try to claim a Masonry with a claimed Vanilla. I just don't see how people would believe it, and honestly, him screwing up the delivery is probably the most promising reason to believe it.

Determining whether or not two teams exist will help us as well. It will be less likely scum will bus scum if there is one team if they can avoid it, especially after 2 scan lynches to their team. But if there is two teams, they may be more inclined to fight each other to continue to look better. Muffin makes a good point though that the only kill that could indicate a second team is the ABR kill, as the other two deaths may be more likely to be Even Night Vigings.

By my opinion, my ISO of T Bone would also suggest that attempting to scum hunt based on his flip is likely not going to tell us anything, since the only person he had a hard on for lynching didn't give enough posts for T Bone's ability to work.

Who are the top three people you think are anti-town, and why?

Right now, my thoughts are leaning to kiwi for some odd posts, including posting that spring is more likely to be scum since bunny was Miller, and claiming that T-Bone was aggressive towards Snake.

My other two choices would be Booger and Darox (inb4omgus), both for the same reason. Neither is really doing anything but going with the flow of the game and egging other players on as if they were watching from the peanut gallery. They've had a little content now and again, but for the most part, they have just laid a few votes, had a few fluff posts, and let everyone else do heavy lifting.

Town-wise, I've felt the Timeater slot and you have been pretty town. Amrun and spring get some town credit as well due to scans and flips, though I do hate that spring has had all of one post since Day 1.


I'm in no interest to throw a vote down at the moment, since for all intents and purposes, I lost an entire day of discussion that I am still analyzing, and the other days were freebies from scans and modkilling. I do think kiwi will end up with my vote at this current pace though. I think the Oversoul voters are looking a bit opportunistic at his fail of yesterday, so I am trying to get a better read on those slots as well.

[Toogeloo]

Spent some time this morning ISOing a couple players.

Mastermind of Sin has moved up my list of scummy players. He was White Knighting Palisades to the nth degree since Day 1. If he is scum, he would of course have known that Palisades was town, and he was Pal's only defender. The "I told you so," comment I think was just butter on the toast.


However, what I really don't like about MoS's ISO is that his must lynch lists have included a lot of people who are town, and yet he is ok with it.

People Who Are Scum:
xRECKONERx
Kise
Albert B. Rampage
zMuffinMan

People Who Are Not Scum:
Fate
The Fonz
Mastermind of Sin

...btw, I hate when people include themselves in the "town" category. Just leave yourself off the list, it's assumed you think you are town, because everyone wants to think they are town. I get bad vibes from people who do this.

His next, "must-die" list:

I would be willing to throw any of the following into the pit against Palisade-town before I'd throw Ludi in:

ABR
Ghostwriter
The Fonz
Amrun
xRECKONERx
Kise

If anyone feels like starting a wagon on someone from this list, I'm with you.

Great, he chose the lurker scum to add to the list, but it's still comprised of mostly town and a half scanned player. The Fonz is the only question mark, but I don't get scum-vibes from Fonz, so not really a point in his favor.

Posted on Day 1:

I would be willing to throw any of the following into the pit against Palisade-town before I'd throw Ludi in:

ABR

Ghostwriter

The Fonz
Amrun

xRECKONERx

Kise

If anyone feels like starting a wagon on someone from this list, I'm with you.

In other news, I feel pretty good about the net I cast in this post. ABR and Reck obviously rubbed me the wrong way because they were hiding that they were a power role. Process of elimination leaves me feeling pretty comfortable with my vote, and The Fonz still looks good for lynching, too.

I don't think Amrun is scum because of interactions with WLC, although that was certainly a nice icing on the cake. Not being a Black Dragon doesn't preclude Amrun from being in the other scumgroup. However, I could get behind The Fonz going into the ring tomorrow instead of Amrun, if y'all want to be pussies about it.

Here he tries to mask his list as being "good." He even states Amrun is scum for his own reasons that aren't tied to WLC, and doesn't want to preclude the possibility of Amrun on the other faction, yet he doesn't explain why he thinks this. He even knows that Amrun is half scanned and still votes him, which I am sure is because Amrun is still a hot topic on Day 3.

OMG NANOOK IS BACK! <3

HAI NANOOK!

Vote: Amrun

Let's get this done and give Amrun another KO.

...though this is going against scanned scum GhostWriter.

however his reasoning is:

Amrun has been on the Palisade, Cooldog, and Springlullaby wagons. All terrible wagons on town players. She hasn't really given us any useful content all game. You accuse me of not posting a case on Amrun, and yet Amrun hasn't posted a case on

anyone

all game. It's just goddamn shameful how scummy she is, and you're giving her a pass because she's not in the same scumgroup as WLC? Bullshit.

...which sounds hypocritical to me, because MoS's entire ISO is devoid of any real case on any of his initial suspect pool, or even The Fonz, his current vote.

The rest of his iso is White Knighting of Palisades, and then throwing out votes in sheepish manner on Oversoul and kiwi. Now with the new day, he is back on The Fonz.



Overall, I really don't like the entire iso of MoS and I think he is scum.

See, Toog, that logic applies to IS as well. Come join this wagon.

ISO of IS agrees... Batch him with Bogre and Darox. I doubt all 3 are coasting scum though, and my initial gut was on the first two I mentioned.


In other reads. 3 people on Oversoul at the moment, two of which I have listed as possible scum picks. I am thinking of those two is probably scum since I still maintain the votes on Oversoul are opportunistic. kiwi is the one I feel worst about though.


I'd like to vote either MoS or kiwi at this point, and since it's early enough I might be able to convince people, I will go with my current case.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[Toogeloo]

If he is scum, he would of course have known that Palisades was town, and he was Pal's only defender.

Well, if you're working on the assumption that there are two scum factions, then no, he would not have known that Palisades is town. And as far as I can tell, you still are working under that assumption, aren't you? Which makes this a very interesting thing to say.

I operated under isolation already knowing that Palisades is town, and reading the intent behind his posts. He could be Serial Killer for all I know, I just don't like the way he posted his defense or his "I told you so," nor his follow up list of anyone being lynchable that was on the Palisade lynch. My statement that I think he is scummy for calling someone town is the opinion that I have seen that before and didn't like it.

You will also notice that I have been drinking the kool-aid over the last couple pages, agreeing that the burned to death characters are likely vig targets (whom I think is Scorpion), and agreeing that the only kill that looks like a possible double kill is ABR (whom I believe is Reiko and Kano). I have not tried to make any assumptions of scum fighting scum as of yet since I haven't been able to concretely state that we do or do not have multiple anti-town factions.

In other news, I think Toogeloo and kiwieagle haven't read up on their MoS meta recently.

To the best of my knowledge, I have never played with you or mastin before this game (exception being [redacted] which is currently running as well which mastin was in as well). I try to avoid meta as it's more trouble than it's worth, and have never researched a player I've never played with before.

[Toogeloo]

Read again, none of you are suspects except for Ludi.

Are you saying we are all town in your eyes then?

At first I was thinking that Muffin was the scumbag for the silly sheeping.
Or MoS is also making bullshit lists and floating around like a vulture in order to see if this little wagon on me gets any traction.
Or Toog for doing the same thing as MoS.
Or maybe Fonz for making bullshit mini-lists and narrowing down from a pre-prepared field. But at least Fonz looks like he is scumhunting.

This is offhand scum hunting IS. This is why it appears as though you have 5 suspects. You CLAIM that none of us are suspects, but this list appears to be a way to come back and say, "this person is scum for this reason, and this person is scum for this reason." If you survive and Ludi flips town at some point, you have given yourself a list of outs.



Still don't like MoS, especially with his lackadaisical vote on IS. Town meta or not, it almost looks forced.

CSL's last post is awful, and he hasn't been back to defend his stance on it.

Bogre is no where to be seen, prod please.

Darox continues to post coast. I'd like to see an actual opinion on who is scum or town from him. His current vote is more of a "better than nothing," vote (it's on me, not MoS, btw).

kiwi came in and did another soft jab at Oversoul before disappearing. It wasn't even content, it was more of a retort post.

Can we have a springlullaby replace or something at this point, please? Slot is more than likely town, so the input would be nice to have.



Of the Oversoul voters, Nero is the only one to put together a case outside of the fail-gambit is fail. kiwi, Bogre, and CSL are all lurkish (non-existent) or soft on content. Kiwi's attempts to subtly imply certain aspects of the game still make me dislike him the most (like the implication that T-Bone was going after Snake, like it had something to do with his power). CSL's odd statement and lack of impression from the slot all together has me list him second. Bogre and Nero are probably the town of the Wagon, though neither is a paragon of their role if this is so.


With that, I will have Limited Access through the Weekend. My mother is in town, and my wife has planned some activities. I will try to poke my head in when I can.

V/LA until Monday

[Toogeloo]

Sorry I haven't posted since my V/LA ended. I have a kidney stone, it came on suddenly, and I have been on percocet and had little energy to do anything yet alone worry about a mafia game.


We have just a little over 4 days to come to a consensus on who we want in the ring, otherwise the top two with the most votes are going in.

Eh.

I went back and checked, and Ludi started the IS kick, not muffin. I don't really see scum looking at the state of affairs at that time and deciding what they really needed to do is bus a teammate.

Your list does not mention Ludi. What does this statement make you think of Ludi's alignment?

btw, when Nero flips scum, and people begin to realise that there actually is only one scum team, CSL and Oversoul are 100% town.

Disagree. I do think Oversoul is town regardless, but if Nero does flip scum, I don't think that clears CSL at all. Scum can attack other scum, especially if one or both of them look bad. If CSL gets lynched and flips scum, it would make Nero look better, and vice versa, but it doesn't clear either of them from not being scum.

@Amrun:
You and I have both been cleared to be NOT Black Dragon, but we have not been cleared as being NOT Invaders (Reck's scanning). One team or two, people can't just dismiss as confirmed since that possibility would still exist in their minds. This is why people are arguing you aren't confirmed town.



May you guys never suffer from a kidney stone... my god, worst pain I have ever gone through.

[Toogeloo]

If I don't pass this kidney stone within the next couple days, I will ask for a replacement.

[Toogeloo]

If he stays on Oversoul, at this current pace, Oversoul will go into the Ring (we are likely going to be putting in the top two today instead of two different lynches). According to the last votals, only IS, Os, and MoS have more than 1 vote. There are a lot of single votes thrown out right now, which are more wasted.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: CSL

...just to ensure Oversoul isn't going into the ring, and CSL makes a good back-up to MoS since he isn't getting attention today it seems. I am fine with CSL v. Nero in a fight to the death. Had a town read on Nero earlier, and a scum read on CSL, but I have town reads on *most* of the people on Nero, so their judgment is worth noting as well. Their arguments in the ring will be my deciding factor though.

I'm a little concerned of the exodus off of IS, and forsee a constant problem with IS v. Ludi tomorrow, especially given today was dominated by that discussion. But I very much would like to discuss the anti-town/floaters and get them sorted out as well.


Passed my stone last night btw, thanks to everyone for their wishes.

[Toogeloo]

Taking a warning for the team.

Can we get claims please.

[Toogeloo]

Choose: CSL

[Toogeloo]

muffin, I think you have Nero wrong, and I like part of Nero's idea that Ludi wasn't the only scum on Stranger, however, with the Mafia death last night, I don't think that absolves anyone of innocence. IS is more than likely not a Black Dragon at the very least, but he could be Serial Killer (or second mafia if that idea is still being toyed with).

One thing in particular that started to bug me on reread was Amrun's continued insistence that she is Town based on a non-Black Dragon scan. It seems she is pushing a bit too hard on my reread, and that she is either Invader or SK trying to constantly show innocence.

I'd also very much prefer we don't let these idle town lie around. Not a big fan of the players who are not lifting a finger to do anything and riding other people's wagons.


As far as speculation of the teams and Night Kills...
Fate was killed Night 1 (as per ABR's watch). The only person he stated killed Fate was Ghost. Ghost was Strongman though, so I suppose Bunny might have protected Fate (or another target) and only Ghost's kill got through, assuming two kills went out that night and one was protected against.

I still believe that Reiko and Scorpion are the killers (less sure about Scorpion). Lore wise, both seem to have their own personal agendas. It might be that there are two Serial Killers in the game, one even night and one odd night. Aligned SKs could make sense, but not from what I can see flavor-wise.



As for today, I very much want less dawdling from Darox, Bogre, and Kiwi. Oversoul needs to step up as well.

For now...

Vote: Amrun

...on gut.

[Toogeloo]

My mind boggles that ZM could still cling the the bullshit IS case after its architect was shown to be scum. That said, although I think there was more than just Ludi pushing that, I don't see Muffin tying himself to a partner that tightly.

So my best guess would be MOS on the wagon.

Off the wagon, Kiwi is a VI but seems to look more scum-VI (doing absolutely nothing) than town-VI (doing stupid and controversial things). Nero wagon feels a bit defaulty.

Wait... are you saying the flipped town Vanilla was really scum all along? Are you not paying attention?

[Toogeloo]

If Fonz is scum, he's probably the Serial Killer or the "second" team. Will withhold judgment for now.


So, Fonz, with this new insight, how does that influence your interpretation of the IS wagon, and since we have what appears to be a cross kill (same person killed both ABR and Ludi, therefore "other" team), how do you read players overall?

[Toogeloo]

The same person killed both the claimed Town Watcher (who was solely responsible for a Mafia lynch) and a Mafia member. Killing a Watcher is done out of fear, therefore, the person who killed both is scum and makes the kill on Ludi a cross-kill.

There is no ON Vig, and there is a huge question mark on the whether there is an EN Vig or if that slot is teamed with the ON killer.

[Toogeloo]

Let's not forget that the slot that killed both is Reiko, an Invader who is more likely aligned with Shao Kahn than anyone else that has flipped.

[Toogeloo]

My problem is that I don't believe that an Odd Night SK is the only independent action. It cuts the balls off of the SK making him only be able to take a shot every other night. I would be upset as hell if I was alone and in my faction and could only kill every 2 lynches and multiple other night kills going off.

There has to be something else about the SK, either he has a partner, or he has another ability that function on Even Nights. I can't believe a gimp ass every other night SK exists by itself.


If Fonz is the EN SK and not Vig, are we giving him a free night to do another kill for their team? How do we test him, and as Stranger says, what do we do if Fonz makes it to end game?

[Toogeloo]

Scorpion, for the record, isn't aligned with ANYONE in the lore of the game.

[Toogeloo]

It's not like he can hide the flavour for his vig shots. If obv-town ends up burned to death, treat him as a SK. It's that simple.

Problem with that is that as long as Mafia is alive and an odd night SK, he only has to shoot 2 times or so before we get to end game. Giving him easy targets to choose from only gives him an excuse to be at end without being taken care of himself.

[Toogeloo]

Let's be honest here Fonz, there has been zero threat to your survival since the day began. The only tiff you got into before today was versus Palisade.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: zero threat to your survival since the game began.**

[Toogeloo]

Also, shooting people who aren't a detriment to you isn't exactly true. You did kill both the Doctor and a Cop-type character. Not sure about T-Bone, but you seemed to have the vibe that Bunny was more than just a Miller...

@The Fonz: I am not full claiming. You can go to hell with that idea.

Right, check the idea that Bunnylover is scum who is refusing to fullclaim so that she can claim most convenient power role if it looks like she might be lynched.

[Toogeloo]

This too.

I bet this is your first time with Bunnylover, Fonz
.

Its sad but she's town

Yes, it is. What's the deal with her? She's hinted power role. Obviously, it is in the interests of town to pin her down to one claim, so that she can't just pull out the most beneficial claim when she's run up.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: Darox

Best option.

[Toogeloo]

I don't want to draw this out to deadline again. Let's put Darox in, then let's put Bogre in. I feel like all we are doing is talking around in circles anyways.

[Toogeloo]

The cases on Darox and Nero are shitty and non existent.

...but you are voting Darox. I am confused.

[Toogeloo]

Bogre laying on some ATE in his latest posts.

"I know I am going to get lynched because I am lurkish, but that is ok because my lynch will help town."

If Fonz isn't going to shoot him, we need to put him in today.

[Toogeloo]

Bogre laying on some ATE in his latest posts.

"I know I am going to get lynched because I am lurkish, but that is ok because my lynch will help town."

This is blatantly not true. I said I might be lynched, which is obvious is thrown in. The lynch of ANY of the people I mentioned will help the town, but for me myself, I think you would have a big proportion of the scum going for it (less need to put exceptional reasons down for voting someone who had been less present) and wouldn't put much suspicion on them.

I just think the stagnation we are now facing is the most dangerous thing against us, and I don't mind shaking that up a bit.

That was just my gut reaction to your post. I was kind of summing up how I interpreted reading it.

I will agree that there is a slight degree of stagnation.

@Mod: Can we vote "End Day" and just stick the top two people in and start the duel?

[Toogeloo]

I feel that anyone that isn't on a leading lynch needs to justify why they feel neither should be in, and why someone else should be in. I hate these lone ranger antics of people who just want to ride out a solo vote on someone. Take stance on the top picks, and present a reason why they should or should not be in a duel today.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Darox

[Toogeloo]

Choose: Darox

[Toogeloo]

8. Nachomamma8
9. Darox
19. Amrun
25. Oversoul

^^^^scum

Vote: Darox

...Rule of 4. When scum lists 4 people, one of them is generally scum as well, and I really don't think Oversoul is scum. Plus I just don't like Darox.

I am legitimately interested in why The Fonz shot Nacho over either option he told us he would do yesterday (Kill Bogre, or Kill Survivor of the Duel). Most people had a town read on Timeater, and by default on Nacho.

[Toogeloo]

If it's a two man scum team AND a two man SK team, are we fucked either way?

Also, how does everyone feel about a Mass Claim at this point?

Unvote

I haven't got a clue who the Shuriken guy is to be honest, and I think claims might help a little on the meta front. Willing to put IS in, but I think we need to put our second guess in as well, or at least hear who IS thinks is the Shuriken guy, and maybe put the two of them in together.

[Toogeloo]

I have a hunch on something based on something I just read.

Vote: Internet Stranger

If we are going for SK today, still need a second option, just in case what I am interpreting is incorrect.

[Toogeloo]

Kind of losing interest in the game, mostly due to the inactivity of almost half the remaining players. How certain are you, Muffin, that IS is the SK? I had a hunch based on something you said to Nero earlier that there was a method to your madness, but something you stated last night has had me rethinking that as well.

[Toogeloo]

the same as I wouldn't have bet my life on Nero being scum

But you would have ate your wang... lol.


There was a point in your ISO where I (may have read too deeply into and) thought I saw you crumb something, but after what you said last night about Fonz, I second guessed it. My vote on IS was based on what I thought you crumbed. If I was wrong about it though, we definitely need to have the two best choices in there.


The reason I am losing interest is because I already have a defeated mentality with the game. 4 people not even putting effort in, and not all of them are scum obviously (I would hope). If we are 4 scum remaining (2 SKs, 2 Mafia), I feel paranoid like just about anyone could be scum. Either the rest of the Town has lost interest and the Scum are manipulating the few that are paying attention, or they are just hoping we attrition ourselves.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Darox

[Toogeloo]

IS should definitely claim, as should anyone (or preferably everyone) that we intend to put in the ring. This is something that should have been happening every day to be honest.

[Toogeloo]

Claiming only allows scum to throw out a bunch of WIFOM out there when their backs are against the wall.

This is probably the only true thing about this claim. He has been riding the fact that The Fonz is EN SK since the whole SK thing began, and now his claim is that he doesn't "trust" Fonz but knows he isn't ON SK lulz. The question is, is he trying to WIFOM us and is Fonz really EN SK or EN Vig?


Muffin, are any of your other tracks relevant to the players remaining alive?

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: Bogre

I wish people would really stop caring who goes in with confirmed scum. Not like we are choosing the second person today anyways.

[Toogeloo]

Choose: IS

[Toogeloo]

We know we still have at least two scum. Head Chomper and Spike Thrower. If Fonz is SK too, he needs to die before he gets a shot off, or we lose. However, with Stranger flipping Bulletproof, that seems like an already strong Serial Killer. Would there be too of them? If we kill Fonz today, we HAVE to be right on lynching the last two scum in the final days.

Darox, kiwi, Bogre, in that order for me, is who I believe the remaining Mafia are, and at least one of them should go in today. We can discuss whether we want a second mafia in or Fonz after we get one mafia suspicion in.

Vote: Darox

[Toogeloo]

Are SKs allowed to NOT shoot? If Fonz doesn't shoot tonight, it can clear him (only if SKs have to shoot every night that they can), though he probably won't get a shot the rest of the game either.

[Toogeloo]

@Mod: Are SKs required to shoot if they have a Night Kill? Or can they not shoot if given the choice?

[Toogeloo]

I don't understand why we are putting Fonz into the ring today... We can put Darox and Kiwi in the ring, kill one, have Fonz kill the other. If both of them are not scum, then we lynch Fonz the next day if he already isn't killed by the Mafia. O_o

If both of them are not scum, we are fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

[Toogeloo]

If we lynch town today, and then Fonz shoots tonight and hits town, we are at 4 players remaining with 2 being scum when Day starts tomorrow, right?

I think however, if we lynch scum today, then Fonz should shoot tonight giving us less headaches to worry about.

[Toogeloo]

There are 3 killing flavors still alive in the game. Head Devourer, Bed of Spikes, and Burnt to Death. Burnt to Death is Fonz, claimed as the Vig. That means the other two flavors are the remaining Mafia (which have been deduced as Shang Tsung and Reptile/Mileena).

Claims-wise, we have:
Toogeloo -Jax, VK
Fonz - Scorpion, Vig
Oversoul - Stryker, VK
kiwi - Fujin, VK

Only Bogre and Darox haven't claimed, afaik, unless I missed both of their claims somewhere.

[Toogeloo]

What's your ability Darox? Freezing people? Is that like a Delay or a Roleblock or something?

[Toogeloo]

Vote: kiwi

Darox is dying today, so I don't think it matters who goes in, unless anyone has any objections.

[Toogeloo]

Choose: Darox

[Toogeloo]

I think it's kiwi, but let's just get them both in there.

Vote: Bogre

[Toogeloo]

uh...

Toogeloo - Jax, VK
Oversoul - Striker, VK
kiwi - Fujin, VK
Bogre - Sareena, VK
GreyIce - Kabal, Miller

Pretty sure we have all claimed.

[Toogeloo]

How do you know that Jade or Sub-Zero wasn't the Janitored role (Nero and Darox claims), or that scum even used the Janitored role as a fake claim?

[Toogeloo]

Loving the activity. Grey, what are your thoughts? Who do you want to see in the ring today?

[Toogeloo]

1. You being number 1 on my list is an incorrect assumption.

Toog and Greyice are scum/null blobs for not really being present

, and I believe the miller claim.

I've been suspicious of kiwi for a much longer time than Toog/Grey

, and you

I never really can forgive for being horribly scummy in the early game

. So thus, one of kiwi/you are scum.

Did you just claim everyone in the game is scummy (except Grey who you are null on

despite

believing the Miller claim)? Who would you want to go against in the Ring if given the choice?

[Toogeloo]

Vote: kiwi

I'm tired of waiting for people to post thoughts. Just going to go with my read at this point.

[Toogeloo]

I'm kind of pissed off at the apathy here. Grey is the closest thing we have to confirmed town, and he hasn't even tried to help us. At least of of Kiwi and Bogre is town, and neither is really fighting for their life.

[Toogeloo]

At least of of Kiwi and Bogre is town

ebwop: at least one of

[Toogeloo]

Theres probably 1 or 2 antitown left sooo

also:

scum: OS, GI
town: everyone else

I know im town.

And when im town and get attacked for retarded/forced reasons, I know that guy is scum.


VOTE: bogre

I dont think Bogre is scum, and I know im town.



Scum is either Toogelo or GI.

The only consistency in your reads is GI being scum. You have proclaimed everyone else scum at this point. Those last two quotes were your back to back last posts.

Zmuffin got a tracker result on me not visiting on N6. So the only way for me to be scum is for me to have been the scum who didn't perform the night kill. I realized after IS died that it wasn't a total clear because of the two scum, but I still think it helps, because to believe I'm scum is to reconcile two scenarios together. Depends on if you like probabilities or not.

While normally WIFOM would be a good way to state a rebuttal to this, this actually saves him.

Bogre is town. The Head Devourer is still alive, and he was tracked on Night 6 when the Head Devour took place. So unless he is a Ninja, he can't be the last mafia.

[Toogeloo]

Bogre, I will repeat it again, only this time it has a lot of merit, because you are not being killed today. Who do you want to see in the Ring against you?

Town:
Oversoul
Bogre
GI
Toogeloo
Kiwieagle

Silly list is silly. My list looks exactly the same only switch my name and yours . It should have gone without saying that in light of me pointing out Bogre and the remaining scum are not the same person that this list was going to be what it is. Today we lynch kiwi, tomorrow, if we are both still alive and the game isn't over, I guarantee it will be you and I facing each other in the ring and either Pine or Bogre will be the one that determines the outcome.

I personally don't think it will come to that though. I have wanted Kiwi dead since he started making shit up as he went along (cliff's noting my case that I made way back when in just a moment), and I think that I am right on this. And I do not think we are in LyLo. I think we have one scum left, and that's it.

and I really dont know how to defend myself from your "cases"

The problem is that since people hated you way back on Day whatever (at least 5 days ago), you have been an afterthought to zMuffin's crusade of his tracked targets or other scummy prospects.

Most of my case on you back at the time was that I felt you were making things up as you went along. You stated that Spring's miller claim was weakened after Bunny flipped, even though we had figured out by that point that there were two different cops. You tried to implicate snake after T-Bone's death (somewhat half heartedly). And once zMuffin took over and started his crusade against Darox, Nero, and IS, you tried to stay as far away from the game as possible, even putting your votes down on people that didn't matter. You haven't been right on anyone so far this game, and you have been lurking like absolute crazy. When you do come in to comment, it's usually "GreyIce is scum" repetition, and every other thought never seems to match from a previous thought. I don't think you have even voted for a single known scum all game.


Final comment... looking at the kills. Scum had a Odd Night Strong man. SK was Odd Night killer as well. Vig was Even Night. If you look at the Head Devour, it happened every even night as well. I am betting it's a scum PR that worked on Even Nights.

[Toogeloo]

I've checked this topic 4 times over 48 hours... activity is terrible for end game. This is me simply avoiding prod, I've said my piece. Waiting on Bogre to choose who he wants in with him, because that is today's lynch.

[Toogeloo]

Choose: kiwi

[Toogeloo]

Oversoul, are you actually entertaining the idea that Bogre, who is confirmed by the tracker to not go anywhere, is still possibly scum? I meant what I said yesterday. Both you and I will probably be in the Ring today, and Bogre will be the deciding factor, because going into paranoia mode that Bogre is track-immune is not smart play on the last day of the game.

I was expecting Bogre to be dead today, but Pine dying tells me that you were worried about Pine's crusade against you yesterday. If Bogre was scum, I imagine he would have shot me and kept Pine alive to kill you.

You are fighting today. Who you want as your opponent is on you.

Vote: Oversoul

[Toogeloo]

You both are going in the ring, and basically I have to decide which one of you is scum.

I already assumed as much, which is why I stated it in my first paragraph. I more or less think Oversoul is going to choose me anyways, I was kind of being facetious in that last sentence.


To Isolate a player's posts, go to the bottom of the page and click their name in the scroll box.

[Toogeloo]

Where it says:

Display posts by user: [ All users VOTE: ] Go is not implemented yet.

[Toogeloo]

I really honestly do not think that Toogeloo is scum and given my play with him others would have already picked up on his scumminess and pushed for his lynch majorly

. Your whole argument for Pine's death is WIFOM and likely to be a result of your premeditated murder to get me mislynched. Toogeloo, you are the combatant with me most likely.

I don't get what you are saying here? You don't think I am scum, but you think it will be you and I in the ring? If you don't think I am scum, then it should go without saying that you think Bogre is scum. What mentality is it to put you and I in the Ring together if you think Bogre is scum?

And like hell my accusation was premeditated. If I lived to today, I was fully expecting Bogre to be the kill. Pine dying simply means that either Pine was seen as a bigger threat, or more confirmed via the Miller claim. My reaction was immediately that Pine was your biggest accuser yesterday because I wouldn't see Pine dying for any other reason.


Me being scum would mean that I not only confirmed Bogre as town (I had to point out that he and the last scum were not the same player), which means I removed him as a potential lynch, but I also kept him alive instead of Pine. I'd like to hear your explanation for that. Was that premeditated too?


@Bogre -
I don't understand why you expect us to come up with cases against each other. We are almost 4 months into this game. We are on Day freaking 10. Up until today, Oversoul was one of my biggest town reads (and based on his iso, I have been one of his), but considering your track result, I am left with Oversoul. Have I been his goat all game... probably. But my question is, why can't you come up with a decision yourself? Why are you going to base your final vote on who presents a better case? Shouldn't you have reads on both Oversoul and I by this point, and likely already have an opinion on where you would place your vote if you had to?

[Toogeloo]

I've presented my case, so I am just waiting on you guys at this point.

[Toogeloo]

Did you ever tell us what your hunch was? I guess it doesn't matter that he flipped as SK and all, but for closure I guess it matters.

The only person that has a case on me is Muffin and he only thinks I'm scum b/c I'm attacking lurkerscum OS.

There's a *tiny* bit more to it than that...

This was the post that I got the vibe from Muffin that he knew who was scum. The *tiny* comment felt like a direct breadcrumb that he had some form of scanning power. I figured he knew IS was scum as well from the same side of it. When he later stated that he thought Fonz was the only power left, I thought I had been over-reading the exchange.

Also, I am little dissatisfied with your case as it is pretty bland on only really goes off the fact that Bogre is confirmed and that I am not?

I haven't wavered from my Town Oversoul opinion the entire game until today. I just didn't see any reason you would gambit like that as scum, nor any of your other comments like trying to hara-kiri in mortal kombat. The track is very hard to dismiss, but Head Devour did happen every even night (except last night) and scum did have an odd-night power, plus the even night vigilante and odd night serial killer. Obviously every other night powers seems to be a recurring theme. In Lylo, it is a lot harder to dismiss a confirmation, and I really wish that Fonz would have just vigged Bogre like we asked instead of Nacho for who knows what reason. So if you look at it as a confirmed player vs. someone you have thought is town the entire game, the confirmation

should

should trump it, which leaves you basically holding the bag.

Your play has been a pretty open book, and I am not going to Wall of Text isolate you the same way you did me; I see no reason to try and pseudo-guess connections previously, since my multiple previous ISOs all led me to the same conclusion you were town before. I don't think I am going to magically come up with reasons to hate your play that I didn't see before.

However...

Without the confirmation from the Track result, what is your opinion of Bogre?

He is still power-lurking like crazy, and I despise it. Despite his confirmed status, he is content to let us just throw blows at each other and offer little to no content of his own. This is as close to a coin-flip end game as you can get, and if it weren't for the track result, I would vote him in a heart beat probably. Set-up meta, there was a Kill Watcher and a Tracker. Two observing roles would suggest a observe immune player. But why Pine? Why wouldn't he kill me and let Pine help him lynch you since Pine was so apt to lynch you yesterday?

For what it's worth, I am not self-voting today. So I am pretty much going to vote Bogre to fight you unless you two speed vote me in before I do.

[Toogeloo]

Well, if we are voting now...

Vote: Bogre

[Toogeloo]

I'm voting you because Oversoul is already in the Ring and I am not going to vote for myself.

[Toogeloo]

Not to rush you Oversoul, but I would very much like to have this game wrapped up before Thanksgiving, because I do not intend to play Mafia during that time frame and through the weekend, considering the deadline happens right at the same time.

[Toogeloo]

Why would I vote for myself in Lylo, when I am the only person I can safely say is 100% town? And your theory is bonk, because I would not (as scum) both confirm you to be town, and leave you alive in Lylo, especially when Pine was less confirmed and he was a stronger proponent to Oversoul. It takes away too many options. This isn't a one lynch to win game, we need two people in Mortal Kombat, so there is no lucrative reason to have just one person I can attack available.

[Toogeloo]

Bogre, you haven't done anything with the fact you are confirmed either. You've just sat around all day letting Oversoul and I do all the talking. Someone who is confirmed would be building the cases and stating their word is practically law.

What is your opinion of Oversoul? You wanted to vote him yesterday, which means he would have died against you due to your confirmation, but you haven't even mentioned him as possible scum all day, and all your posts have eluded to Oversoul being town and me being scum, without actually stating as such.

[Toogeloo]

Your education is obviously more important than a game, but I was hoping to be done with the fame by Wednesday evening so that I could enjoy my family weekend. I am going to V/LA my other games as well during that time, as I imagine many might be doing.

[Toogeloo]

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

I never went into Mortal Kombat once .

I really hated the activity in the game, every time I complained about it, it was 100% truth. It was near impossible to play people against each other when no one was speaking. I had CoolDog, Reck, Fonz, and Muffin all figured out as PRs pretty much, and scum should have destroyed town quickly if we had killed CoolDog on Night 1 like I wanted. I tried to distance myself from my scummates as much as possible after Day 1, and do as many pro-town things I could to keep myself looking town.

The mistake I made with the HTML tags was also 100% legitimately because of GameFAQs, it was just coincidence I was scum this game. I was playing another Mafia game at the time there, and the days move much faster (48 hour deadlines), so it required me to be more focused on that game, which more or less burnt me out when I got to placing posts here.

I killed Pine because I felt, given the evening to work with, he would have come around to going after me. I was originally going to No Kill to give me more breathing room in the last day.

I actually am terrible or a savant when it comes to playing scum. I don't get many opportunities, but a quick look at my wiki shows that I am either lynched Day 1, or I am responsible for scum winning the game.

Thank you for finishing the game early for me Oversoul... Though I do intend to spend the Weekend with the family, I felt the nudge to speed you up would work in my favor because you would be most likely to vote Bogre on instinct. Was a great game, and I was nervous as hell the last day.

[Toogeloo]

I already got mine...

[Toogeloo]

...but I suppose I gave him one as well... so we are even.

[Toogeloo]

FULLCLAIM NOW TOOGELOO

Jax, Vanilla Kombatant.
Ground Pound is my voting ability.
I am considered an Earthrealm Warrior.

This was practically screaming for T-Bone to use his ability on me... I was surprised he didn't.

[Toogeloo]

My scum play tends to be quite different than my town play. Most people should catch on to it quicker, which also means I need to work on my scum play.

[Toogeloo]

hmmm... interesting.... Toog... give me some pointers to look out for

I don't mind leaking it since pretty much every game you look up on my wiki shows it (and I am going to be trying to be trying to evolve my game in future plays anyways), but typically my town game is a little more antagonistic, and I don't mind ruffling feathers or going against popular opinion. Whereas my scum game, I am generally more apologetic, give up information relatively quickly, and try to be as friendly as possible. Since I very rarely play scum, I tend to stick to very safe gameplay if I can. Like I said, I really need to work on it.


To give you an idea, on MafiaScum, just from my completed games, I have started as town 15 times to scum 4 times (one town game I was converted in a cult, so I don't count that as scum). On GameFAQs where I have played far more games, I have been town 31 times and scum 4 times. Scum RNG just doesn't favor me, so I don't get a lot of practice at it.

I Think I was the only one who voiced opposition to the Fate kill. But I allowed them to use me to do it anyway. Bad part? He had the role I intended to eventually fake claim: RB. I had it mapped out, got caught and was like "fuck it, leave the claim for my team".

I was there with you. I really should have been more vocal about it, because I really wanted to kill CoolDog Night 1 because I just knew he was scanner. I even voiced my detest of our first 3 days because of our failure to kill him like I wanted. Since I don't play scum enough though, I tend to bow out my opinion to the more experienced players on the site, like Ludi.