Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[jasonT1981]

vote:Zach

He knows why!

[jasonT1981]

unvote
vote:Descent

agreed

[jasonT1981]

its how games begin, Princess. L-4 is nothing.

[jasonT1981]

Kiwi, what is your experience in Mafia?

[jasonT1981]

Actually, can I rephrase that. can you link us to any completed games of mafia you have played in please. on MS or off site.

[jasonT1981]

will get to read over games tomorrow, its too late now to start on them. I wanted to see your reactions to wagons early in game which is why I asked and see if anything was similar.

1) im in UK so 5 hours ahead of EST and 6 ahead of Central.

2) hate wall posts, the odd ones aint bad but when I come on in the afternoon and see 20 walls it is annoying
3) Prefer being scum, much more of a challenge, especially when I am playing with GMan and Zach as they know me too well. My fav role though is in licence to kill setup and is the Day Vig

[jasonT1981]

GMan makes sense, as Zach has already said it cant be talked about due to it being an on going game, but there was reasons as to why I jumped onto the wagon right away.

As for my first vote on Zach, that someone brought up... eh, I usually always vote Zach in games we are in, then get on board a wagon I can see as getting discussion going. I don't see princess as scummy right now for questioning on it though, but not going to write it off as a noob either. She is asking questions and putting her points out there right from the start.

Makes me believe town (though could be eger scum trying to gain town points) however I am feeling my first option is better right now, given how forthcoming she was when I asked for past games, even going into detail on them to help us get a better read.

[jasonT1981]

Al, why are you saying no to meta? seems weird, anything that can help town you would want to use, so to say no to it, is strange indeed.

[jasonT1981]

Yea, really not happy with Para now, Princess makes a post, with obivious content and has a lot of interesting things to say, and you cant be bothered to read it?

Yea, thats called coasting. Town would want to read all that is said. Scum will try and slide by not really wanting to pay attention and just get through the day.

Screw the descent wagon of RVS. This needs done now.

unvote
vote:paraffin

[jasonT1981]

Yea, really not happy with Para now, Princess makes a post, with obivious content and has a lot of interesting things to say, and you cant be bothered to read it?

Yea, thats called coasting. Town would want to read all that is said. Scum will try and slide by not really wanting to pay attention and just get through the day.

Screw the descent wagon of RVS. This needs done now.

unvote
vote:paraffin

You attack paraffin for this, but not gman. Why?

I fail to see your point. GMan didn't come out and say he wasn't going to bother reading a post.

[jasonT1981]

Paraffin needs to return and explain himself, I seem to remember him being a D1 lynch for this exact behaviour, however. I'm leaning Town on him currently.
.
A dayvig shot from me (at that point) would be aimed at Smear or Zach.

1) Can you link this game please
2 I don't like the dayvig comment on Zach, I have noticed when Zach is town, He is always one of the first to be eliminated from the game by scum due to his experience.

[jasonT1981]

short V/LA. Spent all of the morning being sick, so today is going to be spent in bed. Also, will be V/LA Friday-Monday. It's my 30th, and won't be near a computer

[jasonT1981]

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

[jasonT1981]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: malpascp

I'd prefer you to sleep and then write a real response than come in with this lame excuse for a post. I've heard a player state that he wouldn't lynch someone even if they were practically confirmed scum because they were actually contributing. I'm tempted to state the opposite.

it is ironic you are voting for this, given how your wagon started.

[jasonT1981]

Catching up this evening, feeling a bit better.

[jasonT1981]

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

[jasonT1981]

Zach and Jason are showing signs of outside information, its really pisses me off when people do stuff like "I'm doing this for this reason which we can't say because it breaks other games rules" - If I was modding this game you would've been force replaced or maybe even modkilled (Yes I have a specific rule against outside information - AntB/Set-Ups#Standard_Rules if you don't believe me).

oh really? given the game has ended and been linked I am wondering how you are arriving at this thought?

No outside info was talked about, nothing in the rules that we broke. Anyone in that game knew what was going on, and you could have looked it up yourself. We did not discuss an on going game, we simply said we could not talk about it as it was on going.

Besides, it was neither an indication of him being scum or town anyway.

Stop trying to force a modkill. People use tells from on going games all the time and as long as it does not directly mention the game it is acceptable.

[jasonT1981]

ceonn needs to come out and play, he is active on the site, but not game

[jasonT1981]

these big text walls are making it hard for me to follow

[jasonT1981]

@Mod... will ceonn be replaced as it is 5 days?

[jasonT1981]

v/la for weekend, back monday

[jasonT1981]

Oh yes you only turn 30 once... I plan to not remember it.

[jasonT1981]

He is at -2 I believe, not -1.. unless in my very drunk state i missed a vote. Kiwi is coming off very town to me right now. However there is something in the big post caught my eye. I will touch on this when I return from V/LA though. bit too drunk to get into big thoughts now! Plus, Zach n Gregg don't like me playing Mafia when drunk lol.

[jasonT1981]

Quickly

Paraffin Post #106- Yes, my biggest hope at the time was for a quickhammer, but also to see who would unvote as well, to show signs of possible partnership.

this is the part I don't like of the post. Quickhammers are never (or rarely) good for town. Since game is over now, Zach and I voting Descent was based on a game, where we wagoned him, and there was a very quick hammer. He flipped scum thankfully D1

However that game was plagued with quick hammers, and though town won was very dangerous. I went to bed with 0 votes on me, came back to read game to find I had been quick lynched. It was the same person quick hammered all 3 days of that game.

Quickhammers = bad.

[jasonT1981]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

[jasonT1981]

It was nothing more than a 'He can die easier' follow the popular wagon vote.

[jasonT1981]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

It may not have been much, but I was at least trying to be productive.

Do you have any further reasons to suspect him as scum now, aside from the lurking?

[jasonT1981]

weird you are going after him for that when


Descent also 6 posts
AlgoricalTyphoon also 6 posts.
GMan has made only 3 posts
ceonn only 2 posts.

And yet you seem to focus on malpascp with only 6 posts... thats weak sauce, on a weak reason to wagon. your doing no scum hunting and just jumping on whatever you feel is an easy lynch. Why ignore those other 4, 2 of which on equal post counts, and 2 on less? Im ignoring lane0168's 5 posts right now because he replaced in. But yes, so many on 6 or less posts, and you only focus on one.. what was at the time a hot wagon.

scum thy name is Smear.

[jasonT1981]

You're trying to lynch me for "wagon jumping," but at least I have a reason. All he says is "I want to lynch Para but since that probably won't happen let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..."

THIS IS HORRIBLE.

I can't lynch who I want to, so lets lynch the current wagon.

Not lynch based on scummy, not lynched based on a case.

but, and I quote

'let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..'

That is not town thoughts at all, town would lynch based on evidence, you just want to lynch anyone a wagon is on it seems.

[jasonT1981]

oh bah, my mistake on that. I thought that was what you were saying

[jasonT1981]

However, my points on the post numbers, and you only singling out one person, when others are equel or less still stands and needs answered.

If you are all over for lurking on one, should you not be all over them all for lurking? if (and i think will)Smear flips scum, I am looking for scum in that pool of people he missed out. And sure we will get at least 1 from it.

[jasonT1981]

What is the meaning of life?
What team(s) do you follow in sport?


ok serious now, I see you are pretty newish to the site, what is your experience, both on MS and on other sites? and have you any completed games on MS?

[jasonT1981]

sweet, thanks.

[jasonT1981]

lurking is a nulltell, to lynch anyone lurking is not good idea.

[jasonT1981]

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

[jasonT1981]

his flip floppy easy wagoning. And my main post i quoted earlier, ill dig it up in a while for you

[jasonT1981]

Sorry, was in a COD Night and posted quickly between games, these are my main reasons

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

It was nothing more than a 'He can die easier' follow the popular wagon vote.

weird you are going after him for that when


Descent also 6 posts
AlgoricalTyphoon also 6 posts.
GMan has made only 3 posts
ceonn only 2 posts.

And yet you seem to focus on malpascp with only 6 posts... thats weak sauce, on a weak reason to wagon. your doing no scum hunting and just jumping on whatever you feel is an easy lynch. Why ignore those other 4, 2 of which on equal post counts, and 2 on less? Im ignoring lane0168's 5 posts right now because he replaced in. But yes, so many on 6 or less posts, and you only focus on one.. what was at the time a hot wagon.

scum thy name is Smear.

[jasonT1981]

Oh and sorry I didn't post yesterday, I was at practice.

My gut tells me to like the AntB wagon because he's felt like more of a nuisance than anything this game.

However, the fact that he feels like a nuisance make me wonder if that's just his playstyle, rather than acting scummy. I'm going to have to reread when I get a chance before I can say concretely.

Translation, and for the benefit of those with flash photography (this is a Polaroid moment if ever) LOL... I want to vote... but people know I am jumping on every wagon, so I have to appear interested but not jumpy.

SCUM!

Also, you would vote on being a nuisance rather than evidence....

damn it, lynch this scumball already

[jasonT1981]

Oh and sorry I didn't post yesterday, I was at practice.

My gut tells me to like the AntB wagon because he's felt like more of a nuisance than anything this game.

However, the fact that he feels like a nuisance make me wonder if that's just his playstyle, rather than acting scummy. I'm going to have to reread when I get a chance before I can say concretely.

Translation, and for the benefit of those with flash photography (this is a Polaroid moment if ever) LOL... I want to vote... but people know I am jumping on every wagon, so I have to appear interested but not jumpy.

SCUM!

Also, you would vote on being a nuisance rather than evidence....

damn it, lynch this scumball already

a. that wasn't my only reason for considering his scumminess
b. I did not vote, and I don't really have an intention to any time soon(unless he makes an obvious mistake), but that doesn't mean I can't wonder if he's scummy. There are far more scummy people about (malp) who require our attention now.

Oh really? then what other reasons are there?

INFACT, LOOKING AT YOUR ISO... THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THIS GAME YOU MENTION ANT

Right after a potential wagon/case is made on him.

THE VERY FIRST TIME!!!!

Your first mention, EVER says your gut tells you to like the case.

I submit, for towns approval, this is another, however concealed wagon jump by Smear. Setting himself up to jump on the wagon.

NOTE: HE HAD NOT MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT ANT UNTIL A VOTE/CASE WAS MADE... NOR HAS HE SUBMITTED ANYTHING TO BACK UP THE SCUMMYNESS BY ANT.

THIS IS ANOTHER CASE ON SMEAR WANTING TO GET ON A POPULAR WAGON

Translation: the very first time he mentions Ant, he says his gut tells him to jump on the wagon, just like he has jumped on every other wagon.

[jasonT1981]

Vote: jason OMGUS

So instead of answering the case on you, pointing out why Ant is scummy in your mind, or why you had never before mentioned him until he was questioned.

you do a worthless, OMGUS vote.

/Sigh.... Are you actually going to answer any of the points and questions asked of you?

[jasonT1981]

VOTE: smear

Princess k is still scum but smear you just hit a level of scumness higher than that of your wagon.

L-1

I approve of this.

Smear, claim time! in your next post

[jasonT1981]

So, what other reasons for his scumminess are there? you failed to mention.

Now, your claim.. its just town... no vanilla town? no other variation of town... just town? thats a little ambiguous. Im not buying it. your scum

[jasonT1981]

basically, what I am asking is a full claim... just saying town, does not surfice.

[jasonT1981]

Zachrules is also pretty suspicious, possibly even more so than Malpascp. This is not only for the reasons Princess Kiwi mentioned but also because he posted in another thread today but not this one. It was a general discussion thread, though, so I don't know if that counts as lurking.

Vote: Zachrules

oh look another vote from Smear when someone is being talked about as possible scum by someone

[jasonT1981]

V/LA for weekend, as usual. Will try and check in as often as possible

[jasonT1981]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3439015

He is still flying under the radar. He was on-site and actively readign enough to send a mod a PM, but not enough to post in our game to show us some activity and some scumhunting?

yup, he is flying low as I said, hoping for another wagon to form, where he will slip back into the game un-noticed and vote on it.

[jasonT1981]

paraffin's attempt to divert the wagon away to Ant is noted and if (and I think when) Smear flips scum, this should be looked into in more detail.

[jasonT1981]

yea, thats scum.

[jasonT1981]

so I have been hammered?

TWILIGHT ZONE!

Guess there's no point claiming now, you'll find out soon. Good luck.

HAHA But you already claimed town. this last sentence makes me 200% sure he is scum.

[jasonT1981]

Kiwi seemed a weird choice for the kill. Hmmm, gonna go back and read her in ISO tonight or tomorrow and see who she suspected etc to get some clues

[jasonT1981]

Hmm wait. I think she suspected Zachrulez for a lot of Day 1 also.
Food for thought.

Yea, i was thinking that.. but too much WIFOM involved in this killing. I think that is what scum want, to cause confusion.

My theory... Princess was suspected by a few.. Scum kill her to confuse, she was maybe todays lynch, kill her, she flips town... no ones reads are safe and causes town confusion.

[jasonT1981]

Really? gone for a week and nothing at all to add?

no, this is not town Zach

vote:Zach

[jasonT1981]

And you KNOW why I wasn't around for most of last week. Don't sit there and act like I was available to do shit.l.

Holy over reaction, I was not getting at the fact you were V/LA for a week, I know you were not available. I am getting at the fact you are gone for a week and come back with nothing to say about things in your first post.

Big over reaction noted.

[jasonT1981]

No Zach, what I am saying was you didn't seem to have much to say about the game WHEN

YOU CAME BACK.

I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU FOR BEING AWAY, I KNOW YOU WERE AWAY.

Stop misrepping that I was.

[jasonT1981]

Now I'll vote you for not instantly getting back up to speed. After the way you just blitzed over Smear who you were apparently sure was scum lurking.

... You're not scum are you?

Really, you are now going to attack me for going after Smear?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3406458

that post seem familiar? oh yes, you went after him to!!!

[jasonT1981]

Now I'll vote you for not instantly getting back up to speed. After the way you just blitzed over Smear who you were apparently sure was scum lurking.

... You're not scum are you?

Really, you are now going to attack me for going after Smear?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3406458

that post seem familiar? oh yes, you went after him to!!!

So the fact that I went after him at all earlier in the day absolves you from your responsibility in his lynch?

Oh I do not deny he was my first choice for lynch, I make no secret of it. I thought he was scum and I went after him. You seem to be trying to distance yourself from it, and pushing others on it even though you also had suspicions of him.

[jasonT1981]

I'm not actually sure to be honest. I haven't even worked out who the Mason's are. I have the feeling that one of Zach or Jason are one mason and one scum. Not sure which is which, and then you got Maru, who keeps talking about how he is the only remaining Vanilla townie, which kind of makes me wonder what his motivation is in that when there is still 11 of us, so there must still be two Vanilla Townies, and if he is telling the truth, then if the Masons claimed, then we would have the scum members just sitting up on a platter for us, but I don't see that as happening.

Either way, I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting, however, I do feel like it was a mistake pursuing Smear, even if his play was scummy at best.

I love the last bit of this post ' I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting' nice attempt to distance yourself from your actions in the post. What is the point in saying you believe either Zach or I to be masons? Town has no reason to speculate on that as it helps scum.

[jasonT1981]

very confident that princess kiwi is town.

Interesting....

[jasonT1981]

going to be V/LA for weekend as per usual, sorry. I don't get online quite as much. Will get on as much as I can

[jasonT1981]

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

I have played with him MANY times and know his playstyle, that is why my opinion can change. Your attacking me for changing an opinion on someone?

lurking is a nulltell, to lynch anyone lurking is not good idea.

Speaking of lurking though, Smear is activly avoiding this topic, posting elsewhere (non game) on the site and was online as recent as a few hours ago.

this is scumlurking... hoping to avoid the heat, and come back when a new wagon is formed. (which he will probably jump upon)

Ok, first you say that lurking is a nulltell, then you go ahead and say we should lynch smear because of lurking. I know there's a difference between active and inactive lurking, but still. Also, if I remember correctly, Maru and someone else said just before this post that they reckoned town lurked more often than scum (and this includes active lurking), yet Jason ignores this and says "SMEAR IS DEFS SCUM 4 LURKING LETS LYNCH NOW!!!"

Lupas, while lurking (or not being about to post, which is called lurking) is a nulltell... activly being on the site, checking multiple times, posting elsewhere but avoiding posting is a scumtell.. that is the difference and that is why I called it. I said he was activly avoiding this topic. That was the issue!

[jasonT1981]

Im wondering if Lane, and Princess replacing out from same slot means anything? I have seen this as scum before a few times

[jasonT1981]

I love the last bit of this post ' I hope this post isn't seen as Mason Hunting' nice attempt to distance yourself from your actions in the post. What is the point in saying you believe either Zach or I to be masons? Town has no reason to speculate on that as it helps scum.

I agree, and was about to post the same.

Also, to say "I do feel like it was a mistake pursuing Smear, even if his play was scummy at best" is ridiculous. Of course it was a mistake, but hindsight is...well, you know.

Wait... didn't you JUMP on me for EXACTLY the same thing

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase.

Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

why yes, yes you bloody well did!

[jasonT1981]

Im wondering if Lane, and Princess replacing out from same slot means anything? I have seen this as scum before a few times

That is the definition of a null tell. This is the first thing I haven't liked from you.

its more just personal opinion. In games I seem to notice the scum replacing out multiple times more in a slot than a town slot, maybe scum doing it is just more noticeable really.

[jasonT1981]

I am now very confident in my scum read on Zach.

As town, Zach seems to lead more.. seems to jump over everything he sees, questioning things, actively scumhunts and calls everyone on anything he sees as not right. He is aggressive and goes after who he feels as scum very hard. DIE SCUM DIE! As town, Zach makes many, many posts per page and will fight tooth and nail to secure a lynch of who he feels is scum

As scum Zach is the polar opposite, Zach is subdued, plays cautiously, quietly and does not hunt as actively or is less agressive and does not post as much, lurking and keeping quiet. Coming in makes a post here and there. He does not go after people much or does not press them.

In essence, the exact way he is playing here. I am 100% sure Zach will flip scum.

[jasonT1981]

I will say on this, Zach has been successfully nailed with the above as scum MANY times over. That is how I am so confident.

[jasonT1981]

examples pls

I'm interested in this too.

LOLS you know this as true.

I will have to shift through games, I no longer have them saved in my bookmarks. Bare with me, tonight or tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

guys hold of the zach lynch please until I can at least get the chance to back up my claims with the meta from past games. I lost my games record in a format and am in the middle of re-archiving all my old MS games, so taking a bit of time as well as getting ready for a huge job interview and training as soon as it is over.

[jasonT1981]

GUYS BLOODY HELL, I HAVE ASKED YOU TO HOLD OF THE ZACH LYNCH UNTIL I CAN GET MY GAMES TOGETHER AND SHOW WHAT I AM SAYING ABOUT HIS META.. NO ONE HAMMER FFS I HAVE NEARLY FINISHED MY RE-ARCHIVING

I seriously suspect Ant of Bussing now, especially if (and I think when) Zach flips scum

[jasonT1981]

Town Zach

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=14287
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p1961504

Zach Scum
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=14277
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=14753 (note I replaced Zach as scum, but Sotty nailed Zach on this exact meta I am using now, and used it for me)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 57&t=18656 (though a marathon, this was used to lynch him too)

You will notice, town Zach is agressive and goes after people, Scum Zach lurks, and this Meta nails him time and again, hhis play is identical in those scum games as it is now, very little content and very little hunting as opposed to town. On looking over these again, I am 200% sure Zach is scum and will assume full responsibility if he is not. I would say Zach should be our lynch, usign this, he is confirmed scum to me.

[jasonT1981]

Alright. I am just a little confused. Why are you screaming for no one to hammer him when you are pushing for his lynch?


That being said, I always view town as being those who hunt for scum, and mafia as being those who just kind of lurk, and Zach is certainly not hunting. I will bite the bullet and hammer.

Vote Zach

did you read what I said, I was screaming for people not to lynch WHILE I WAS FINDING MY GAMES AGAIN. So as I could link them.

[jasonT1981]

Shit, thats 2 kills that have thrown me off, Ant now too as well as Kiwi, both ones who some suspected....Scum are trying for optimum confusion I think here by killing off those considered anit-town so as no one is sure of anyone

[jasonT1981]

Lupas would be my next choice after Ant I think for a lynch, didn't like how Christine tried to shift things onto me over me wanting to hold up Zachs lynch. Came across as an opertunistic hammer IMO too. Decent is barely noticable in this game and need to see more from him. But my current choice for a lynch would be one of those 3

[jasonT1981]

I agree with the above. There is no scum motivation as Zach in his claim was trying to out masons without a doubt, scum no doubt had discussed doing this in their quicktopic, it is a common scum strategy in games with Masons.

I did not like Christines quick hammer one bit, and I do have doubts about her to be honest. I just don't see the advantage of scum doing this when they no doubt would want to out the masons... unless Christine is dumb/stupid scum and did not catch on to a plan.

I actually think the more likely option is scum would try and pin this on Christine to secure a mislynch based on her actions..And this leads me to this.

vote:Lupus Vega

[jasonT1981]

I still do think the hammer was opportunistic, and too quick (though probably better as Zach claiming mason before a hammer could have outted any real masons as Zach was rolefishing big time for a counter claim) I still have one eye on Christine, and I will look deeper into her later but I think scum know they can push a lynch on Christine using the hammer as bait to secure mislynch.

[jasonT1981]

I would like to point out THAdmiral and Decent are SEVERLY coasting in this game, as is CSL with one post from last week after replacing in. We urgently need input from ALL I have listed.

[jasonT1981]

Quick note: I have the biggest job interview of my life Thursday, as well as an entrance exam for the company and scenario testing for the job, so I will not be about Thursday, and tomorrow will be spent getting last minute prep done for the interview day.

[jasonT1981]

Zachrulez was pushing for a lynch on Malpascp for a long time(as far as vote parking), even when players were'nt paying much attention to him. Seems like he was avoiding the Smear wagon to set up the Day 2 mislynch.

Rule 1 - Zach busses big time his partners early on to win town cred when they flip scum. I have been (off site (and I think on MS) ) scum with Zach a few times and he busses when scum and can go after his partners.

[jasonT1981]

Lupas, claim time please. you are at -1.

[jasonT1981]

I don't think its scummy, it is just the person who hammers always comes in for scrutiny in these games and some defend it, some attack it.. nothing scummy

[jasonT1981]

Paraffin needs to return and explain himself, I seem to remember him being a D1 lynch for this exact behaviour, however. I'm leaning Town on him currently.
.
A dayvig shot from me (at that point) would be aimed at Smear or Zach.

1) Can you link this game please
2 I don't like the dayvig comment on Zach, I have noticed when Zach is town, He is always one of the first to be eliminated from the game by scum due to his experience.

I'm not sure what the reason for saying 2) is, because to me it doesn't seem like it has anything to do with dayvigging Zach. However, I also can't see a scum motivation for saying it, so...hm.

[quote="In post 377, Lupus Vega"

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.[/quote]

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

Really? gone for a week and nothing at all to add?

no, this is not town Zach

vote:Zach

I'm not sure about this post...I like it, but it could be bussing...but my gut tells me town...but I hate gut. I'll think about it.

interesting, Lupas spends so much time defending or attacking those who go after Zach, then does this with very little actual comments made about Zach himself.

Ok, reviewing my posts, the two people who jump out as quite scummy to me are Mal (now Christine) and Zach. I don't want to vote Christine as she's only just replaced (if I don't like her play, I daresay this will change quickly, as I found Mal worse than Zach [although he did replace out, so I'm uncertain of the read I have now...] So, without further ado:

Vote: Zachrulez

Regarding players' suspicion on Lane/Princess, I'm not going to bother talking about it as I can't see into their heads. If their behaviour is enough to convince you to lynch me, go ahead.

I am honestly thinking, scum defending... then bussing his partner to earn town cred. the sudden vote when he had never gone afterzach before is weird. I am happy with my vote, and confident we will catch scum with a lynch of Lupas

[jasonT1981]

urgh quote fail.

[jasonT1981]

I was about to ask the same thing, how the hell can a first vote be opertunistic?

[jasonT1981]

It's not like the slot had been free and clear before today. It's opportunistic because it's encouraging existing sentiments while failing to add ideas of your own.

translation - its scummy because he is going after his scum read? /lol fail

[jasonT1981]

@ Jason: could you answer this pls?

Zachrulez was pushing for a lynch on Malpascp for a long time(as far as vote parking), even when players were'nt paying much attention to him. Seems like he was avoiding the Smear wagon to set up the Day 2 mislynch.

Rule 1 - Zach busses big time his partners early on to win town cred when they flip scum. I have been (off site (and I think on MS) ) scum with Zach a few times and he busses when scum and can go after his partners.

Do you think, therefore, that malpascp/christine and paraffin are possibly scum?

I believe that 2 of those at least have the best possibility of flipping scum, yes.

[jasonT1981]

soooo quiet...

It is rather, what do you think of what is going on, especially Para saying about Lurconis vote being opertunistic?

[jasonT1981]

Really? gone for a week and nothing at all to add?

no, this is not town Zach

vote:Zach

I'm not sure about this post...I like it, but it could be bussing...but my gut tells me town...but I hate gut. I'll think about it.

Lupas, given Zachs flip, I want you to explain why you were unsure about this post? especially the bussing part. I esentailly brought the case on Zach, and made the push... when there was little to no pressure on him at all. I think he knew Zach would flip scum, and posted this as a safe fallback to use on me in future.

[jasonT1981]

CSL and Descent are really pinging up my scum radar too, they seem to be skating by un-noticed in this game

[jasonT1981]

Srsly? I think we've gone over the whole "it's null" thing already.

@ jason: why are you not voting either of them then?

because I believe Lupas to be a better chance of flipping scum.

[jasonT1981]

unless you can give us reasons not to, and valid options of where to go besides you.

[jasonT1981]

Yes and no THAdmiral... I believe the final 2 scum lie in these 4.

Lupas
Mal
Chirstine
Para

Lupas still is my main read, but those other 3 I cant discount either. 2 scum left from my 4 targets, so that means, assuming 2 of those are actually scum, then 2 are town looking scummish

[jasonT1981]

Yes and no THAdmiral... I believe the final 2 scum lie in these 4.

Lupas
Mal
Chirstine
Para

Lupas still is my main read, but those other 3 I cant discount either. 2 scum left from my 4 targets, so that means, assuming 2 of those are actually scum, then 2 are town looking scummish

Mal and christine are the same person

haha bloody hell, so they are... /fail on my behalf there. sorry.

[jasonT1981]

the funkybike1 and CSL slots seem to be generating a lot of replacements, I know Lupas however has replaced out site wide from what i can gather so I wont hold it against him.. but CSL seems extremly active on site

[jasonT1981]

There is plenty to say.

[jasonT1981]

OK, That is L-1. claim please, FunkyBike.

[jasonT1981]

CSL is being replaced.

Cancelled.

Nearly 24 hours since this, and no sign of CSL.

[jasonT1981]

unvote

I see no scum motivation in claiming VT, Scum would most likely try to out a mason, as scum will always (IMO) try to claim a PR.

CSL needs to talk, and CSL needs to talk yesterday! He has been active on this site again since he decided to stay in the game.

[jasonT1981]

@Mod, can we get a prod on Descent and CSL. I know he only stated yesterday to stay, but nothing from him in over 8 days.

Descent is now fully picking up on my scum radar. I would be happy to lynch him today. he is another who has been active on the site yet ignoring here.

[jasonT1981]

disregard last part, he hasn't been active since last post, but has been online today.

[jasonT1981]

myself, Para and THAdmiral are the only remaining non replacees

[jasonT1981]

Been over 2 days. no sign of Nacho who replaced CSL... Funky continues to avoid questions added. Not too happy with how lurky this game is getting.

[jasonT1981]

So, after all this, you still won't give reads, answers, reasons etc. Despite the VT Claim, your play is not town.
Im done

vote: Funky