NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[I Am Innocent]

/confirm

[I Am Innocent]

vote banana

...for stealing that line!

[I Am Innocent]

Posted the gif. It's a well known town tell to post a gif of a dancing... four legged scribble.

I currently have slight townleans on both Banana and choof, more so Banana than choof.

Wat

What have I done that is alignment indicative at all lol

Your vote on me, seemed like a reaction to my voteless entrance, so i figured you'd want to engage with me.

Oh wait, you actually confirmed.

yup, try reading next time

Only dropped out one time (and by your post I guess that was a game you were in) from circumstances beyond my control.

Wont have an issue this game

VOTE: BananaCucho

That is a scummy GIF!

Hold up, if that's a scummy GIF, then shouldn't choof, who actually owns the gif as an avatar, be scummier?

I question your logic, good sir.

[I Am Innocent]

What did my phone just throw up in that last post?

[I Am Innocent]

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

[I Am Innocent]

Fair enough. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

MS crapped out on me for over an hour so I'll have to come back tomorrow.

Same here, except change the time to be tonight after the kids go to bed.

[I Am Innocent]

And I've been engaging in discussion. Your point?

I didn't see you as engaging the first time thru, so I reread ur ISO up to post 94 and I still didn't see you engaging. Which of your posts up to that do you think you were engaging in?

I am Innocent

says RVS is over, but then votes on what is essentially an RVS wagon.

What is your definition of an RVS wagon?

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

this was probably where scum voted on AJ

VOTE: I Am Innocent

Why are you so sure AJ is town up to this vote?

I don't understand...
You say this:

there is scum in between luna and banana
it's probably luna

Then you vote I am innocent?

Great point. Also interesting that choof kicks up these scumhunting efforts after his wagon jumps to 3, and AJ's drops to 4. Someone getting nervous?

Also i don't think im liking choof anymore. For someone accusing Banana of being self conscious he's being self conscious himself.

this wasn't an accusation, this was a post made to make it seem like you're keeping up when you're just sheeping off the current wagon

pedit: would you like me to vote for you?

I want you to be honest.
If you think im scum then vote me.
Because i don't understand why someone who thinks im scum wouldn't be voting me.

imo innocent is a better wagon candidate atm because he's actively lurking and you're not

I thought the reason to vote me was because of my place on the AJ wagon? This is the first you mention of me actively lurking.

So what you're essentially saying is in his next post you'll be town reading him. If his post on IaI was all it took to swing him from a scum read to a town read, your read on him is flimsier than papyrus.

So is he your strongest scum read, since you are voting for him? Because I see more waffling than actual sincere belief that he's scum.

How strong are your reads usually by Post 153? I'm seeing alot of mudslinging here on someone whose play has felt very genuine.

because giving up when you're under pressure is definitely the town thing to do

I don't get the feeling that the one vote Banana has at this point is really causing him too much pressure. But way to try to continue to try to add to your smear campaign of him.

I'm going to start taking a tally of every time banana implies that someone misrepresented him
I believe we're up to three, possibly four posts so far

Yet still no vote on banana? What are you waiting for, another player or two to agree with you?

VOTE: luna

lol

How am I stalling? I'm not going to respond to every childish post you make. But by all means, please continue to post them until you've got it out of your system, and then prove to me that you're not scum if you're town.

Or don't and I'll keep my vote where it is.

Threatening people with unrealistic demands? That's totally town guys! Right? Right...?

Versus attacking the same player over and over (Banana) but voting two other players he barely mentions (me and Luna)?

(See later he says this is for reaction testing and that he now has a town read on Banana. Will be curious to see if the attacks continue.)

Choof, why do you spend so many pages reaction testing with one player (Banana) but casts votes pretty quickly with little to none of this reaction testing on two other players (me and Luna)?

**********

Breaking up my wall for fear of losing this post and having to start over. Will continue the catchup now.

[I Am Innocent]

104 from TheWorst is AWFUL. Entirely overcautious, manages to say virtually nothing. Justification of the vote is absolutely terrible, entirely self-evident that Innocent felt he had valid reasons for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote (and my vote sure as hell isn't "random"). Lousy, forced reasoning.

Thanks man, I worked

hard

for that post, glad you appreciated it. I felt as though Innocent's posts didn't show me much. His post and vote there seemed weak, with a little "

Gotcha!

" line saying that RVS is over when in context, it was an RVS wagon that he leapt on. That's what got me.
And if it wasn't random as you say, it certainly seemed random from my perspective (I'm sure others share it) as there was no interaction with AJ, no warning, no reasoning, just telling others to join the wagon. Was it for a reaction or something?
The rest of my post was just my thoughts/feelings on the game so far, but nothing too special. Lazy? Sure, I'll accept that. AWFUL? C'mon man, chill.

Why not ask me why I voted rather than just jump on that post? Interesting what you called an RVS wagon included 3 of the 5 people whose SECOND vote was on AJ. Do you think people usually unvote their original RVS vote only to cast a second one? No, there was nothing random about that wagon.

AJ was not engaging. If he was town, I would have expected him to comment on some of the 5 votes (or 4 before mine was cast) that sprung on him out of nowhere. Or discuss some thoughts on the banana/choof back and forth. There were definitely things to discuss, but I didn't see any of them. I saw someone waiting it out saying tell me when I'm at L-1, and I was more than happy to add some pressure to get him to start playing. Still surprised he hasn't analyzed his own wagon, that is the first thing I'd do if I was town and 5 of the other 13 players voted me within 4 pages of the game start.

I hear it's factually proven if you call everyone in the thread town, you will be correct the majority of the time.
It's also factually proven that you have about an 84% chance to survive Russian roulette.

It's also factually proven that scum tend to do IIoA more often than town.

Non game related, but I'd like to see where this is factually proven. As someone who has been called out as scum a number of times (when I have actually been town) for too much IIoA, I'd love to see this, tho my guess is it doesn't exist.

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

The 'implicit thought-line'... Oh... OH? OH *** IT'S SO IMPLIED IT'S BURNING ME. IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU SHOULD TAKE THE VOTE AT FACE VALUE! MIGHT HE HAVE REALLY MEANT THAT RVS.... was over?

I mean, you can't even point to another post. There's 4 of them, since I counted, and none of them have any relevance here. So catboi, the real pressing question is: Are you a mind reader?

To which the answer is no and I'd like to know how you're stating with so much faith that you understand this hidden implied meaning IAI is sticking behind this deep post. It's almost as if you took his post, made an apple an orange then called it a mango to attack wicked with. IaI's post was exactly as wicked said:

He said RVS was over and voted for an RVS wagon.

Like I could put that in direct quotes for wicked and you can reference that to the post above. And so he's justifying his vote for no reason? No, says I! You simply have to use the

implict thought-line

to find the true meaning of Wicked's vote.

And really, if it is such a misrepresentation to for me to say that you say IaI's post's contain valid reasons, why did you say that exact phrase?

So this being said, what say you, catboi?

My question to TheWorst applies to you, what do you define an RVS wagon to be? Does a wagon of 5 people with 3 casting their second vote that way constitute random to you?

Hello Vedith btw.

I'm guessing you're town on what could be completely incorrect game meta which is that the person you replaced did not pick up their role PM.

Ergo no full scumteam to chat pre-game, ergo unfair on the scumteam.

How do you feel about that?

I've never seen this before, but the fact ur bringing up such a crazy notion to give an empty slot to date a town read does point favorably to you.

Right, I went through the start of the game, then I just skipped the pointless debate of Choof and BananaCucho.

BananaCucho always looks scummy - He does on this game too. I'm going with town.
Choof seems to be trying to look too scummy for scum for me. Something I'm going to look into.
I have no idea what Luna is doing, seems to be all over the place but kind of null.
I like Talah, I feel 223 was a test from a town.
AJ comes across as scum hunting more than others... Comes across... More town lean than not though.
Performer - 74 What is with the voting for your play style comment?

I only had a while to catch up during my break, so a continued version will be looked at tonight/morning.

Zakk, who's scum?!

So people who look too scummy to be scum are probably town, but AJ who comes across as scumhunting to you (aka looking townie I presume) is lean town?

Now, what I like about RVS is when I replace in, I can look at wagons and try to figure out motives in the light of other posts down the line. However, don't expect me to be good at it. I almost got lynched my first game on site claiming I wouldn't drop a vote because I thought RVS was stupid. Pirate_Mollie and Mastin2 had other opinions about it. Since it's random voting, I generally do what I know: just drop a vote and talk for a while.

Can I get a link to this game, I'm not sure I've ever seen Pirate Mollie cast an RVS vote myself.

**************

Yeah, not feeling the VeeGee wagon. Considering my vote is on the 2nd largest wagon, and I have a number of outstanding questions out there, I'm going to stay for now. We'll see what comes of those questions.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah he has been a lot more active that's for sure. His whole case on Luna is crap tho, about town hunting vs scumhunting. Why would scum want to box themselves in with so many town reads? Scum hunting can be faked well enough by most that listing a bunch of town reads isn't necessary.

I wonder if TheWorst and AJ are confusing an RVS wagon with maybe something more like a "not very serious" or "for pressure only" wagon? Which the latter I'd agree with. I don't know, seems like an easy wagon for scum to jump on if AJ is indeed town. So stand by what I said earlier, why not analyze it if ur AJ and ur town?

I believe the easiest way for scum to play, esp D1, is to lurk. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, so to avoid the votes, stay low under the radar. So part of me advocates it, but a bigger part of me is hesitant with this target based on who is on the wagon so far. Too many cats I just don't trust.

[I Am Innocent]

I hear ya, but first I need him (and TheWorst) to clarify their definition of a RVS wagon.

[I Am Innocent]

Off to work, catchup tonight after the kids go down.

[I Am Innocent]

I am staring at my computer saying windows is not responding after spending an hour catching up.

Short version on my phone:

Choof has not answered my 2 questions from an earlier post.

AJ did not answer 2 of my questions either.

Vedith did not answer one.

Why would scum performer fake a vig claim with no pressure on him? There is no scum motivation for it, unlike the people itching to get a claim out of him.

Not in that post but want to say right now: choof is probably my top suspect. His voting habits as he started to get pressure were very bad, and now that pressure has abated, he has withdrawn to the background.

Also want to look into this performer wagon, it stinks pretty bad.

unvote AJ
Vote choof

Ps going to leave my computer up all night to see if I can save that post, if it does I'll submit for the other crap I had in there that I can't remember.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that wall post I made last night is officially dead.

You asked me a rhetorical question and what I thought RVS was. I answered the latter.

And I've been engaging in discussion. Your point?

I didn't see you as engaging the first time thru, so I reread ur ISO up to post 94 and I still didn't see you engaging. Which of your posts up to that do you think you were engaging in?

....

So what you're essentially saying is in his next post you'll be town reading him. If his post on IaI was all it took to swing him from a scum read to a town read, your read on him is flimsier than papyrus.

So is he your strongest scum read, since you are voting for him? Because I see more waffling than actual sincere belief that he's scum.

How strong are your reads usually by Post 153? I'm seeing alot of mudslinging here on someone whose play has felt very genuine.

Okay I can see how this second one sounds rhetorical. Not exactly sure an answer to that is going to help me anyway now.

What about the first question, I'd still like an answer to that. Also, what is your read on Choof?

[I Am Innocent]

checking in, weekend has been surprisingly busy
wont be able to start making posts again until tomorrow evening

Has come and gone. Please answer these in your next post.

No and I've not said that or implied that anywhere. As I said, I generally just wait for RVS to pass.

Newsflash, RVS is over.

vote AJ

this was probably where scum voted on AJ

VOTE: I Am Innocent

Why are you so sure AJ is town up to this vote?

....

Choof, why do you spend so many pages reaction testing with one player (Banana) but casts votes pretty quickly with little to none of this reaction testing on two other players (me and Luna)?

Also, who are you scum reading at this point?

[I Am Innocent]

Did you ever think the paranoid about being killed at night is the real crumb?

[I Am Innocent]

That's all I want to say on that other than it's time this wagon dies

[I Am Innocent]

I already said that I want him to claim. So what's different between me wanting him to claim and you wanting it?

for IaI and banana:

Okay, so what do you think of the people on the wagon then? Bad aim overall, scum helping it?

I stick by what I said about wanting a claim and also thinking Faq/verdith are taking advantage of this.

Specific to IaI, who are you looking to tie up then?

On that wagon vedith jumps out at me most.

Off that wagon I still feel very strongly about choof.

There are some roles that lose a lot of effectiveness when claimed. If performer is a vig, I'd have no problem with that claim. But I suspect he is something different that should be left unsaid for now.

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure why 680 was quoted as well....why I hate phone posting

[I Am Innocent]

Off that wagon I still feel very strongly about choof.

Considering how you're paying very much attention to a possible soft claim by Performer what do you think of choof's hard confirmable role claim.

I thought the timing and fact he claimed at all were both off. Unlike what I suspect about performer, there is no reason a town friendly neighbor should claim, unless he's up for lynch. Maybe dropping a hint D2 about their target in case said target is scum and tries to NK them N2. But yeah nothing needs be done or said D1.

With that said it is confirmable so Ill wait and see D2 what happens there.

unvote choof
Vote vedith

[I Am Innocent]

Talah, I was skeptical of performer too. When the veegee wagon got going, I said I didn't trust the shady cats on that wagon so I didn't join. While not explicitly saying it then, he was one of those shady cats.

But when that soft claim came, performer was under no pressure. I saw no scum motivation for it, but a huge town one esp if he has the role I think he does. If that role is outted, it will lose its effectiveness. So no I don't want a claim and I want this wagon to die. If I'm wrong, well then there are still other scum to try to find/lynch. If I'm right well performer very well could help get town a win.

I continue to feel like I'm saying too much on this. My question to you is, who else is scum to you? Alternative question cause I don't want confbias against performer in there: who is scum assuming I'm right and performer is town?

[I Am Innocent]

It's not a PGO, they should hard claim D1.

[I Am Innocent]

Interesting I hadn't seen him use the word paranoid in his first three posts. I was assuming the crumb was in his 7th post.

If he is a PGO, he should hard claim now and I might reverse my thinking on that wagon.

[I Am Innocent]

I thought he crumbed 1 role, not PGO not vig, something else a bit more valuable and one that would require some hints being left D1

[I Am Innocent]

If he is a PGO or vig, yes he should probably claim at this point. If not, I think he should remain silent in case I'm right.

[I Am Innocent]

PGO is just as dangerous to town as it is to mafia. I've always seen it claimed (or fake claimed) D1.

Vig needs no soft claim. I've probably seen more fake vig claims than any other role on this site.

He made a comment that caught my eye that lines up with a role I'm familiar with that makes me believe he has that role. If you think I'm blowing smoke than vote me. If performer is alive D2 and doesn't have anything to contribute, I'll out what I thought that role was. If he has something to contribute than I am probably right.

[I Am Innocent]

@performer, are you a vig or PGO?

[I Am Innocent]

Actually this is his seventh post. Why the first post on this site is labeled #0 is beyond me.

Because of Vee's 298 admission and his hilarious signature to further defend himself, I designed

one

set of questions for him.

It starts with one
One thing, I don't know why
It doesn’t even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time
All I know
Time is a valuable thing
Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings
Watch it count down to the end of the day
The clock ticks life away
(linkin park – in the end)

Consider my questions a response to your 387 and 407...

Vee, what do you think about that song? Especially about the part, "it doesn't even matter how hard you try?"

Briefly tell me about your school. Do you like the school you go to?
What is the last thing you ate for lunch at your school?
If you weren't in school...what would you be doing? And tell me, why?
What is the weather like in your city at the moment?
If I were to ask your friends, would they say you're an honest person?
Have you ever lied to someone? If so, what was it about what?
How do you feel about lying in general?
Has your lurker activity been brought up past games, like it was brought up by catboi in this game? Low-hanging fruit, he mentioned. I'd imagine ripe fruit at that level can be picked, washed, bitten into, and would taste delicious. But I'd prefer a professional do the follow-up process because I wouldn't want to encounter nasty bugs that will kill me after eating a poorly-washed low-hanging fruit.

Back to FM.
If your lurker activity has been brought up before, what do people normally say about that?
Are they usually right or wrong? Why?
Would you say you're a better mafia or town player? Why?

And...if I were to shoot you on night 1
what do you think about that?

-----


302 : talah, it's because I was afraid they were messing with me like mafia would. I was future projecting that they were going to kill me first...that's what mafia does, they kill people...so I was afraid...
Two people who misquoted within a moment of each other, I wanted to see what they were up to...but like I said earlier, maybe I'm just paranoid...so they are off my radar at the moment...

There's a 2nd player I recognize...with his entrance, I'm afraid he'll vote me for my play style...which I don't want him to...
I don't want to die today...2nd player, what do you have to say for yourself...be honest, you can't escape the truth at night...

talah I'm curious...do you know who I speak of...
these 2 mystery players...


Aj's 313 has a point. I've heard about and personally witnessed lurkers who ruin the game for town. This ties back to the above questions toward Vee. I think it will be important for me and others, to determine if Vee is town or scum, the sooner the better. Then we don't have to wait until he gets on at night (limited time for him) or wait another 6 days for another time he can post, if he can't post on weeknights.


335 - catboi .... I don't mean to be obnoxious...I don't think I would ever use that as a playstyle...one person who comes to mind as obnoxious is RadiantCowBells


338 - Zak, what do you say to Ved's question...
Are you normally a brief poster?..why or why not?...
I'm curious about this as well..
therefore I am keeping an eye on Zak on top of Vee...

[I Am Innocent]

1) I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling or what.
2) It seems like your attention is like bits and pieces everywhere.

Luna
I'm not trolling, St Constantine does that but not me...please don't worry about that...
if's any consolation
just think of me as the awkward guy at work
I'm just asking Vee some questions...like if I was Vig and shot him
what would he think
I don't do heavy personal insults. Please don't be concerned...

It's interesting that talah thought I'm trying to call attention to myself
but you verbalize that my attention is in bits and pieces
but really, I am afraid to die...
it's the same concern that I imagine
everyone else has

Actually this is the post that ultimately swayed me.

[I Am Innocent]

Fine, read that lost post of performers and tell me it doesn't line up with hider, k? Hider needs to crumb their target in case they die, but can't crumb it if scum knows their a hider cause it can take out 2 players in 1 shot at night!

Happy now?!?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm off to work, I need to cool down anyway...

[I Am Innocent]

Screw u, I've been a hider before so I know how it works.

[I Am Innocent]

If performer died during the night u could see he targeted veegee, and we could autolynch him d2!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I Am Innocent]

Hider can only die at night 2 ways, if they hide behind scum or the person they hide behind is a NK target. Veegee isn't likely to be the latter so he would be the perfect person to hide behind. Which makes the hider an investigative role

[I Am Innocent]

So Performer was defo crumbing hider and he was making sure Veegee was town so he could avoid being nightkilled.

Hider's main focus is to be investigative. If your investigating a scummy or lurking player (either real scum or mislynch bait), you probably aren't going to hide behind the NK target.

1) So if morning comes, and that player is still alive and the flipped hider is dead, guess what, free scum lynch.

2) If both are alive, Hider can either crumb that town result and continue or fully out it depending on the situation.

If we have a hider, that is probably our only investigative role with 14 players, esp if choof was being honest about being confirmed town.

[I Am Innocent]

Could still be a weak role. That modifier is normal:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Weak

[I Am Innocent]

Modified for what I saw:

I'm just asking Vee some questions...like if I was Vig and shot him
what would he think


but really, I am afraid to die...

[I Am Innocent]

And...if I were to shoot you on night 1
what do you think about that?

Which brought me back to this. I thought he trying to lay out his target in multiple posts, and his crumb was the "i'm afraid to die"

[I Am Innocent]

If we have a hider, that is probably our only investigative role with 14 players, esp if choof was being honest about being confirmed town.

It's not a normal role. It can't be in the game. He's not a hider. It's a stupid role.
Go to the mod for clarification if you're concerned. I posted the wiki link for normal roles.
And Hider is not mentioned at all in the Normal game description.

I've also been a weak doc, same thing. okay maybe little stronger.

PS - Note PGO is also not on that list. Does that change your thinking at all?

[I Am Innocent]

And...if I were to shoot you on night 1
what do you think about that?

Which brought me back to this. I thought he trying to lay out his target in multiple posts, and his crumb was the "i'm afraid to die"

This is going down such esoteric paths that I'm surprised you're bothering.
Who's your other scumbuddy?

Do you have two?

Nope not scum. But feel to vote for me to find out.

[I Am Innocent]

*feel free

[I Am Innocent]

The modifier is normal. The role is not.

This is in reference to what?

[I Am Innocent]

Read my posts again talah. I saw no reason for scum performer to fake a soft claim. He was under no pressure. It wasn't needed.

Read my posts again talah. As soon as he said I'm afraid to die dot dot dot, I changed my belief on that slot.

Read my posts again talah. I have been both a hider and weak doc, and the hardest part of those roles is crumbing ur target in case u die, so town can catch the scum who killed u.

You can read and reread all you want...you'll find no contradiction cause none exists. Those were and are my beliefs. Ur close mindedness about town having different thoughts on this matter is starting to give me concern tho.

[I Am Innocent]

This is how I'm seeing IaI's posts coming across as townie to me:
329 & 331 - addressed Aj not analyzing his wagon, addressed Worst jumping on the post rather than seeking incentive
569 - follow-up with a question, asked him for read on another player
570 - followed up with choof and asked for reads list
677 - he said it was looking like a mislynch, compared to Aj who has been rushing for blood and not wanting to be reasoned with (535)

It's kind of easy, I'll hope you'll appreciate from my perspective, to note down things a person does and attach lukewarm town-behaviour to them.
For example "Followed up with a question, asked him for read on another player" is not exactly something I'd be reading as town just for the fact it occurred.

Says the guy who considered me a non-lynch candidate after my first 2 catchup posts...

Not likely lynching today:

Luna
Aj
catboi
choof
Banana
zakk

IaI

Kyubey
VeeGee

Likely lynching today:

Performer
Worst
FAQ
Vedith

...in addition to VeeGee if he doesn't pull his pants up, as I don't mind zakk's "i haven't posted much" acknowledgement.

I'm enjoying your catch-up IaI btw

.

***********************

Eh that last post by performer sounds town I don't wanna lynch him

Walls of text aren't inherently town. You need to look at what the player is saying and think about why they are saying it.
Then make a determination of whether you believe it, or if you think they're trying to be deceptive to get town lynched and save themselves and their buddies from being lynched.

Can you give a brief rundown of what you found town about post 785 please?

How about starting with that vote. Does that seem like something that would benefit scum Performer to do, try to start a wagon on a consensus non-lynchable player this close to the deadline while he is the top wagon by far?

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure why there is such a resistance to a vedith wagon. Of the four above with more than 1 vote, I lean towards faq2

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that iso is pretty unimpressive.

unvote vedith
Vote fa_q2

[I Am Innocent]

I received nothing last night either.

What are the chances scum fake claimed a role I've never played with, only to have a town player with that role?

Luna you thinking bus driver or something? Wouldn't that affect targets (AJ) instead of who it came from tho (TheWorst vs sky bird)***

I'm going to wait to hear from those two before I cast a vote.

*** Titus you mentioned D1 that you can have up to 2 non normal roles in a normal game. I was not familiar with that rule, where can I verify that?

mod feel free to clarify if you are aware of this rule too

[I Am Innocent]

Confirmed

vote ashtonbrady

[I Am Innocent]

Here, and admitting I was purposely laying low/not casting a vote.

Inner struggle here, esp after last game when I claimed D2 and was then killed N2. I think I'm going to out some information I have about N1, but first I need everyone to claim if they have any role that would stop a kill. Bulletproof, Doctor, Jailkeeper, if a roleblocker wants to out themselves, have at it.

With a claimed 2 shot BP Doc, I don't expect anybody to disagree with this request.

Once everybody has answered this, I will stop being so mysterious.

PS - For the record, I have no ability that would have stopped any night kill.

[I Am Innocent]

If everyone proceeds, I'll out my role and night information, which I believe will lead us to scum.

I really do need specifics on those, but if people want to start with yes or no, I'm fine to start there.

[I Am Innocent]

Has everybody answered?

The worst & sky bird = FN, so no
Performer = VT so no
FA = yes
Luna I believe said no
Talah no
Me no
AJ 2 shot BP
Vedith no
Titus = not N1 so no

Who does that still leave? Sal veegee and cbd?

[I Am Innocent]

FA I will have a follow up question for u once the other 3 have chimed in.

[I Am Innocent]

Yes but I want to give them one more chance in their next post.

[I Am Innocent]

Waiting on 2 more people

[I Am Innocent]

Okay guess it can't hurt to ask the following to FA while we wait on the other 2:

FA, who did you target N1 with your ability. If BP is your ability and don't want to give it away, pick a random person not named IAI. If not BP, I need the exact target (don't need to clarify what the ability is tho)

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah I agree, same with doc

[I Am Innocent]

Well FAQ's claim lines up with mine.

X-shot Vig (at this time I don't think it benefits anyone but scum to reveal the X)

I shot Talah last night. I'm sure that is probably going to irk some people in here, but the way I saw it, he was my top scum read that was going to be near impossible to be lynched. When he didn't die, and a claimed BP Doc said he did not target him, I figured one (or both) of him and AJ were scum, and that

if nobody claimed to have targeted Talah and he didn't claim BP, he was likely confirmed scum

.

Sorry FAQ, if you really are town aligned, you are down a shot

. May want to consider giving me a list of names that you would BG'd tonight so I stay out of that area.

Obviously my thoughts have changed:

1) Anyone that thinks town has 2 FN's, a 2 shot BP Doc, a 2 shot BP BG, and a vig is just insane. There is too much coordination that could go on starting D2 that would have even a 5 man scum team trembling.

2) FAQ is almost certainly only scum if Talah is, so no reason FAQ should be getting any more votes until we see Talah's flip.

3) AJ's claim with 1 vote still feels the most forced/fake of any here to date. I could see scum AJ panicking after nobody died and a vote coming his way. I still see little motivation for town AJ to do it.

4) I think the FNs should be given at least one more night before we even consider lynching them. Of the two, the first seems more shady to me, as Choof twice reacted badly when pressure started coming his way (first throwing a bunch of votes around, and later the claim with minimal pressure). Then again, the second did involve AJ and the chances of scum fake claiming an odd role like that which just happen to really be in the game is also minimal.

To me it comes back to the 5 town claims. There is no way town is that powered, and of the claims, the shadiest is still AJ.

vote AJ

[I Am Innocent]

PS - Also another reason why I never thought Performer was claiming vig...

[I Am Innocent]

PPS - I just came from a game with a 2 shot vig and mafia doctor, so that also crossed my mind as AJ claimed.

[I Am Innocent]

I wanted to put it in the open. Riddle me this: Why do I claim you as FN as scum? My team already knows and can quietly assassinate you.

Are you saying scum has day talk?

Why not say "I received a FN notice, but it wasn't from Skybird?" Why was outting the person so critical if your objective was to cast suspicion on Skybird's claim?

[I Am Innocent]

To create chaos and confusion? Though it didn't end up in your favor and attracted a ton of attention to you.
Ehhhh mehhhh idk now. All these claims are crazy.

IaI's info doesn't explain how there was an NK from mafia that night.

Well assuming the bodyguard is the legit claim, I'm wondering if both his bullet's are gone on that vest of his.

[I Am Innocent]

Personally I just find it funny (like raised eyebrow, sorta ha-ha funny) that Titus replaces into a game and suddenly another "Vig" is happy to claim they've shot me despite the fact I've been reasonably well townread.

@IaI can you point to where you indicated anywhere that you had a vig role, or that you were thinking about shooting me, yesterday?
Did you look into any of my scum meta before making that decision?

Anyway I'm still taking it easy for the weekend so bbl.

Well below is my thoughts on the vig role (essentially no soft claim is needed):

PGO is just as dangerous to town as it is to mafia. I've always seen it claimed (or fake claimed) D1.

Vig needs no soft claim. I've probably seen more fake vig claims than any other role on this site.

He made a comment that caught my eye that lines up with a role I'm familiar with that makes me believe he has that role. If you think I'm blowing smoke than vote me. If performer is alive D2 and doesn't have anything to contribute, I'll out what I thought that role was. If he has something to contribute than I am probably right.

Proof is in the pudding. Unfortunately for me, my proof apparently evaporated due to FAQ's involvement. But I can still prove myself tonight. If AJ flips scum, I'll shoot TheWorst. If he flips town, that puts you and FAQ in bad lighting. I'll probably shoot one of you two.

*****************

As for my concerns for your slot. Here is where they started. Also due to you bouncing your vote from Performer to me and back to Performer (mislynch bait imo), only to finish on zakk (flipped town):

Read my posts again talah. I saw no reason for scum performer to fake a soft claim. He was under no pressure. It wasn't needed.

Read my posts again talah. As soon as he said I'm afraid to die dot dot dot, I changed my belief on that slot.

Read my posts again talah. I have been both a hider and weak doc, and the hardest part of those roles is crumbing ur target in case u die, so town can catch the scum who killed u.

You can read and reread all you want...you'll find no contradiction cause none exists. Those were and are my beliefs. Ur close mindedness about town having different thoughts on this matter is starting to give me concern tho.

[I Am Innocent]

If it helps, I don't think that I was shot.

I wanted to put it in the open. Riddle me this: Why do I claim you as FN as scum? My team already knows and can quietly assassinate you.

Are you saying scum has day talk?

Why not say "I received a FN notice, but it wasn't from Skybird?" Why was outting the person so critical if your objective was to cast suspicion on Skybird's claim?

Regardless day talk or not, it's not like scum wouldn't talk between the next NK.

As for why not in any other way, it would've been pressed for and I wasn't exactly thinking of ways to hide Worst.

But if you got a note after day started, and you had concerns you might be lynched today, wouldn't scum AJ want to get that out? Just in case?

[I Am Innocent]

Proof is in the pudding. Unfortunately for me, my proof apparently evaporated due to FAQ's involvement. But I can still prove myself tonight. If AJ flips scum, I'll shoot TheWorst. If he flips town, that puts you and FAQ in bad lighting. I'll probably shoot one of you two.

[/quote]

Strike that, scum AJ doesn't guarantee scum TheWorst, right?

[I Am Innocent]

I am not so sure I like IAI's claim though. The manner that he outed town's PR's does not add up to me. Being a vig, I don't see how that would have fingered scum reliably enough to ask for PR claims.

Here is how D2 went.

AJ claims BP Doc (2 ways to stop kills)
We now have 2 FN claims
AJ claims to have protected Luna
My kill on Talah did not go through
Nobody protected or roleblocked Skybird...why would I be roleblocked before Skybird?
Nobody countered AJ, which I took that to mean we probably didn't have any town protective roles and maybe AJ was legit and Talah scum

To me, that pointed to scum Talah, in the off chance that there was still a hidden town protective role, that puts AJ's claim in bad light, as mafia doctor is a counter to vig.

So we either caught scum Talah or scum AJ in my eyes.

I think IAI was fishing for roles and he managed to get them. The more I think about this the worse I feel for claiming. I finally get a damn good role and now it is likely that I will not get to use much of it.

VOTE: IAmInnocent

Please explain what your actual plan was IAI because I really do not see why asking for our roles (and needing specifics rather than simply asking if anyone protected talah) is beneficial to town if you are a vig. It is also the ideal scum claim - scum kill anyway.

Okay now this is crap. I didn't ask for specifics. I asked if there were any protective power roles out there. I never asked specifically what they were. I SPECIFICALLY asked you:

Okay guess it can't hurt to ask the following to FA while we wait on the other 2:

FA, who did you target N1 with your ability. If BP is your ability and don't want to give it away, pick a random person not named IAI. If not BP, I need the exact target (don't need to clarify what the ability is tho)

That is as unspecific as I could get. All you had to do was say, I targeted Talah last night, and I would have outted my vig shot on him N1. You were the one who volunteered specifics, so don't put that on me. I did my best to keep this as vague as possible (any protective roles that would have prevented a kill N1, FA who did you target, etc).

************

I'm only going to say this once, the job of any power role is to help town win. In almost all cases, the best use of a power role is to catch scum. If your role catches scum, it is almost always advantageous to trade 1 for 1 imo. You've done your job, end of story.

I was willing to do that. I thought I had scum Talah caught. As soon as he said, I have no night protective abilities (remember he was first to answer me), I thought surely a town protective role would have CC'd AJ already, so this is money in the bag. I will just wait for no one to claim protective role, then profit.

capisce?

[I Am Innocent]

It is also the ideal scum claim - scum kill anyway.

PS - except the number of NK's and who you target do not make it an ideal scum claim.

Like I said earlier, I can prove my role. Just like the claimed FN's. The two who cannot are the ones that have me the most worried.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTECOUNT TWO POINT ATE

VEEGEE - 4 - PERFORMER, TITUS, TALAH, VEDITH,
AJ THE EPIC - 2 - LUNA FOX, FA_Q2,
VEDITH - 1 - FIREBRINGER,
FA_Q2 - 1 - AJ THE EPIC,

NOT VOTING: THEWORST, I AM INNOCENT, VEEGEE, CHANNELDELIBIRD, SKYBIRD,

DEADLINE: (expired on 2015-10-17 07:05:00)

WITH 13 ALIVE IT TAKES 7 TO LYNCH

REPLACING SALAMENCE20

Mod, you appeared to have missed this vote:

Well FAQ's claim lines up with mine.

X-shot Vig (at this time I don't think it benefits anyone but scum to reveal the X)

I shot Talah last night. I'm sure that is probably going to irk some people in here, but the way I saw it, he was my top scum read that was going to be near impossible to be lynched. When he didn't die, and a claimed BP Doc said he did not target him, I figured one (or both) of him and AJ were scum, and that

if nobody claimed to have targeted Talah and he didn't claim BP, he was likely confirmed scum

.

Sorry FAQ, if you really are town aligned, you are down a shot

. May want to consider giving me a list of names that you would BG'd tonight so I stay out of that area.

Obviously my thoughts have changed:

1) Anyone that thinks town has 2 FN's, a 2 shot BP Doc, a 2 shot BP BG, and a vig is just insane. There is too much coordination that could go on starting D2 that would have even a 5 man scum team trembling.

2) FAQ is almost certainly only scum if Talah is, so no reason FAQ should be getting any more votes until we see Talah's flip.

3) AJ's claim with 1 vote still feels the most forced/fake of any here to date. I could see scum AJ panicking after nobody died and a vote coming his way. I still see little motivation for town AJ to do it.

4) I think the FNs should be given at least one more night before we even consider lynching them. Of the two, the first seems more shady to me, as Choof twice reacted badly when pressure started coming his way (first throwing a bunch of votes around, and later the claim with minimal pressure). Then again, the second did involve AJ and the chances of scum fake claiming an odd role like that which just happen to really be in the game is also minimal.

To me it comes back to the 5 town claims. There is no way town is that powered, and of the claims, the shadiest is still AJ.

vote AJ

[I Am Innocent]

Cool, except I'll just pretend that's a 3 next to his name, not a 2 ;p

[I Am Innocent]

Ditto

[I Am Innocent]

Talah, here are my thoughts in response to ur post:

1) so in your dream world, I am scum with the other 4 claims being town because I am in a super strong scum team, one that you continue to make stronger in your head with each additional claim, one of which is an unlimited strongman as u suggested, yet you were the sole target and didn't die because the unlimited strongman.... (Finish the sentence please).

2) have u looked at my scum meta? I onced faked a cop claim as a mafia traitor and did not just get one town mislynched, but two on false investigations. So for your reasoning to say it must be a fake claim that scum IAI hadnt thought through is lazier than me not looking at meta before I used my vig shot. Look at my town meta, and more often than not, I'm pretty good at picking out the weak town mislynched targets from D1. Assuming I'm right about performer, that means your last 4 votes on D1 were on town players. I stand by my shot on u from N1, and would say there is a decent chance of more of that N2 (there's my hint for my N2 target)

3) to answer your question no I didn't look at meta. I never use meta unless I played with person before or maybe sometimes is someone else provides it. I work full time in a demanding job, I'm married with 4 kids, I usually don't play more than one game at a time, so yeah looking through others games is not really something I can afford to use my little free time to do. But once again take a look through my games and prove me wrong. You apparently have more time than me.

4) oh your imaginary scum team also has a JK. Why did sky birds note go through in your imaginary world where the other 4 claims are legit? Wouldn't scum want to discredit sky bird by leaving her alive without a result? Maybe town has a role blocker that blocked the scum JK? Problem with your dream world of the 4 legit town claims is that you can't make up a reasonable scum team to offset it that lines up with the actions we've seen at night. I tried to do that before my claim, and it gets even worse now when you add FAQs to the mix.

You say I diverted attention from performer. Well you appear to be diverting attention from the other 4 claimed players, making me wonder if there is more than 1 scum in there.

@group, I am also willing to lynch talah today. His vote on a player that can prove his role future nights while diverting attention from 2 roles that cannot is very scummy. Not sure why more of u can't see this!

[I Am Innocent]

@vedith, if I had started with that and talah said I'm 2 shot BP or something like that, would you have believed him?

I was hoping to catch talah in a lie and figured we'd have no more protective roles to out in a game of 14 with a BP Doc. And if we did it would cause me to disbelieve one of those claims anyway.

It was a minimal risk that had great rewards.

To everyone not named Talah, do you think there is scum in AJ/FAQ?

[I Am Innocent]

Regarding AJ/FAQ claims

:
I don't think we have enough evidence / good reasoning to lynch either today.
Even as a hypothetical - my current running theory being that there are simple enough roles which would counter the current town PR claims (minus the Vig claim which I don't believe for a second if it was rounded up to the closest integer) - Consider what I suggested to Performer.
Scum
= 1 unlimited strongman
= 1 jailkeeper
= 2 goons

If there is an unlimited strongman why was there no night kill?

If there is a JK, why did sky birds note go through assuming those 4 claims are legit.

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

[I Am Innocent]

I agree completely. I don't think I was a sensible vig target at all.

Claiming it serves two purposes - allows him to locate the other protective role and gives him outs for submitting kills on later nights.

How would a fake vig claim give scum an out? A fake vig claim is suicidal, the lack of an extra kill would crush that claim.

Are you willing to bet ur game life on me being a fake vig? If so I will agree to shoot you n2 if you agree to ask any town protective roles we may have not to target you.

If you and I are both alive to start D3, I will go 1 vs 1 against u, cause I'll know you had a scum teammate protect u/u lied about being BP.

Deal?

[I Am Innocent]

Guys I feel the need to vent, maybe better explain myself, and hopefully prove what a fraud Talah is, etc.

This is going to be lazy, based on my memory, so sue me if I am remembering things wrong, but the following is based on my memory AND

my thought process

.

Going to start with Performer. Remember him having some odd quotes, and saying 'what if I vig you'. Wait, he is not the vig, I am. What is he getting at. And what is this "I'm afraid to die" post. Reminds me of that time in Les Mis when I was the weak doc, and died N1 cause I protected scum, and what happened? Nobody ever looked at him cause I didn't crumb it and scum had a perfect win. But why would Performer protect VeeGee, unless he's a hider....hmmm, maybe that is why he is afraid to die and his "vig target" is really his hider target. Even if I'm wrong, how many of these votes are weak sauce. "I want a claim blah blah blah." This wagon sucks, I have no intention of joining it.

Wait Talah is now attacking me for defending it. So I scum because I'm defending my partner. Meta would show I'm a busser lol. Wait what is that about PGO? Oh didn't notice the paranoid comments. Still I don't see town PGO or mafia "fakeclaiming PGO" being that subtle. Nah, try again.

Ah, now I get Talah's vote too. Add him to the list of people I'll consider shooting tonight. And now back to voting Performer cause nothing materialized with me lol. Try harder scum. And now what, a zakk vote, and the easeness with which he hopped on.

And the flip....surprise zakk is town, and Talah was on that wagon. Who else was on there. Vedith and VeeGee are the only other shady cats except for maybe SkyBirds slot, which claimed FN.

And VeeGee was one of the people Skybird might send it to so no there. That leaves Vedith or Talah. If I'm right about Talah, I don't see them ever getting lynched, same can't be said for Vedith if they are scum. I'm going to risk it and shoot Talah.

What, nobody died. Should have been at least two kills. Wait, AJ is a BP Doc and protected Luna??? If he is legit, that has to be it for Protective roles, so let me give some time for a CC, and if not I'll expose Talah.

Still no CC, let me try something. FA, what??? Crap, was I wrong about Talah. Well either FA/Talah are scum, or it's AJ. I lean towards the latter due to the outting of his and a possible FN claims (both unnecessary, esp the name of the FN). I'll go there. But if I'm wrong, I'll shoot Talah/FA tonight, and even declare that in thread. And BG sounds more townie than Doc, which is a better counter to my claim. I think.

Oh only 50 posts from that declaration and I have Talah's vote. After I was in his null pile (had 3 scum listed there), and he was the first on board with my plan and asking everybody and their mom if they were going to claim too. And voting me when I can prove this claim with a kill N2??? WTH!

Now more mudslinging. Attacking me for being Performer's partner again, yet not voting the claimed VT but voting the claimed vig who can prove his role in future nights. More scum points.

Now accusing me of faking a role and looking into his crystal ball on how I'm going to act when townie people are killed in the future at my hands. BUT THERE WILL STILL BE AN EXTRA KILL, WTH DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!

Now accusing me of intentional shooting at possible FN message recepients, when I already showed N1 to have no desire of doing. More mudslinging.

Talah knows he is a high risk candidate to get shot tonight, and his self preservation is very bad. If we are staying away from power roles, that is my preference. His scum flip would put FAQ in bad light.

Oh, and last but surely not least, his probably biggest gripe that this was really a scum NK attempt and that he was the target himself. Yet has he placed himself in scum IAI's shoes, if scum IAI was truly just trying to out a last town protective role, why not say "I shot FAQ N1" after FAQ claims 2 shot BP BG before I have a chance to say anything? Does anyone even remember where my vote was at the end of D1 (Hint it starts with an F and ends with an AQ). Would have been a perfect alibi no?

So why would IAI say who he really shot....maybe just maybe it is because he is town and town shouldn't lie?***

I know we're trying to consolidate, but at this time I can't vote anyone not named Talah, AJ, or maybe FAQ. I'll be around to move my vote to prevent a no lynch if needed.

unvote AJ
vote Talah

***Guys I scumhunt by putting myself into other's shoes and say "what would i do" or "how would i act" in that situation if i was scum. If you do that you'll realize that I am town, and that either AJ or Talah/FAQ are scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Give me a list of people, but I want:

1) the claimed protective roles to agree to stay away from them

&

2) that talah be in it.

[I Am Innocent]

Anybody in there right mind can see from my posts I have no desire to vig Performer. Not sure what the big deal is of swapping him and Talah, who for all intents and purposes, I would seriously consider shooting again.

[I Am Innocent]

Hmm... IaI, proving a 2nd night kill doesn't prove you're town, it proves that either A) You're a mafia vig B) You're a town Vig, C) You're SK.

Fair point. But hopefully A gets eliminated by me killing mafia, and C, well I'd probably need to be lynched before LyLo to sort that out.

Pedit-ninja'd

[I Am Innocent]

i think a flipped mafia doc or BP would also help prove my case.

[I Am Innocent]

BG, not BP

[I Am Innocent]

okay, back to work. i'll be around

[I Am Innocent]

vote DGB

[I Am Innocent]

IAI, why VG/DGB?

If my options are VG/DGB and Banana/Sal/FB, I'll take the former:

1) Kind of liked Banana while he was in the game, never felt he was scum
2) Not a fan of those voting that slot (AJ, FAQ, Talah: sure to be scum in here)
3) If I'm wrong, VG already claimed no night actions, so at worst we lose a likely VT
4) If I'm wrong, and VG flips town, that sorts out your slot. So at least one of these claimed roles will be figured out.

[I Am Innocent]

3) If I'm wrong, VG already claimed no night actions, so at worst we lose a likely VT
4) If I'm wrong, and VG flips town, that sorts out your slot. So at least one of these claimed roles will be figured out.

Oh good grief, you are so scum.

I am not just a VT, I am DrippingGoofball, scumhunter extraordinaire, and first choice for the NK unless power roles are outed.

"Sorting out Skybird's slot" is utter bullshit since you dingbats are hellbent on lynching your biggest scumhunting assets, the scum will be free to NK the confirmed townie.

Read D2 and tell me if I'm still a dingbat.

[I Am Innocent]

If Skybird dies tonight, the first one to be scrutinized would be the so claimed doctor, lol. (Which i still question why protect me over a claimed FN)

Come on, are you serious???

A doctor with a BP and you're fretting over friendly neighbor nonsense when you should be lynching the obvscum claim???

Yes read D2 and you'll see both Luna and I pushing this.

[I Am Innocent]

So why isn't that fakeclaim lynched?

I suggest you read through D2, srsly

lol, this.

Most people are hiding behind the "let's not lynch claimed powers".

Which at this point is almost half the playerlist.

No way town has both a BP Doc and a BP Bodyguard. I stand by that.

[I Am Innocent]

BG claimed 2 shot BP

[I Am Innocent]

Don't worry talah says it's very plausible cause scum probably has a role blocker and jail keeper, neither of which was aimed at the D1 claimed FN tho

[I Am Innocent]

Not yet, just my claim

[I Am Innocent]

Which lines up with FAQ's BG claim, he protected talah who I shot

[I Am Innocent]

It is a BP bodyguard, not JK

[I Am Innocent]

Possible. At one point I started to wonder about multiball, but that would have meant 3 kills were stopped. Which only lines up if both teams had protective roles

[I Am Innocent]

It is a BP bodyguard, not JK

That kind of defeats the "bodyguard" aspect, LOL, it's the same as doctor?

Until the first two shots are used, after that the BG dies from a direct or BGing shot

[I Am Innocent]

What happened to the vig pool? Do you really think it wise for me to tell scum the exact target ?

[I Am Innocent]

And refresh my memory on a scum team that could compare to 2 FNs and two BP protective roles

[I Am Innocent]

Oh wait u included a strongman yet nobody died N1

[I Am Innocent]

What happened to the vig pool? Do you really think it wise for me to tell scum the exact target ?

Just stick to the pool please.

I will just this clown is annoying the heck out of me. It is axle greaser all over again...

[I Am Innocent]

vote IAI

I'm done with this game guys sorry.

Vote talah tomorrow. His fear of getting vigged N2 is the last bit of evidence u should need.

IAI out.

[I Am Innocent]

If ur town I'll be happy to debate this more post game. If u read my last game and saw how axle tunneled me when I had a cool role, and now u this game, maybe u'd understand. Or ur scum. Either way it has sapped the fun out of it for me.

[I Am Innocent]

Because ur prob scum?

Just because ur all salty about the shot does not make it a derp vig.

Why are you so afraid to die?

[I Am Innocent]

Talah, one last question I have before someone hammers:

For most of the day you said I was scum faking the vig, and how I was going to pretend the NK was my vig on future nights. But now u seem to believe I am a vig?

[I Am Innocent]

U put urself in the vig pool? I think I had a bit more to do with that don't u think?

But once in the pool u continue to push for me for no other reason than a derp vig.

Like I said earlier I scumhunt by putting myself in others shoes and saying how would I act if I was them. For u, as town, I'd be happy to be vigged if I thought the vig was scum. 1 for 1 trades are always good for town.

That is where my data is coming from.

Lynch this guy tomorrow please!

[I Am Innocent]

Give me a list of people, but I want:

1) the claimed protective roles to agree to stay away from them

&

2) that talah be in it.

[I Am Innocent]

Anybody in there right mind can see from my posts I have no desire to vig Performer. Not sure what the big deal is of swapping him and Talah, who for all intents and purposes, I would seriously consider shooting again.

[I Am Innocent]

I would seriously consider shooting him again has got him really worried lol

[I Am Innocent]

Yep, lynch talah D3.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, Talah is scum for me.

Flash lynched? =D

VOTE: Talah

Join the wagon that Talah doesn't want. FB.

But talah was just voting FB. Along with AJ and FAQ.

The counter was veegee/DGB.

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone have an unofficial vote count?

[I Am Innocent]

Boy that veegee/DGB wagon did disappear quickly :-/

Whose the 3rd person in my vig pool: talah vedith ?

[I Am Innocent]

vote talah

Will be around tho phone battery is dying at work blocks this site...

[I Am Innocent]

Ur killing me vedith!

unvote talah
Vote FB

[I Am Innocent]

Those voting me (not named talah)

I want it on record if u will park ur vote on talah D3 when I flip town.

[I Am Innocent]

vote AJ

[I Am Innocent]

Yes. Why would scum create like 3 last second CWS to you if you were town.

Does this mean you think DGB is town?

IaI, I have a major bone to pick with you. You went off and did your own thing despite being told to shoot likely scum. If you don't lynch scum today or shoo scum tonight, I will lynch you.

Well I think Talah was still a good shot. I know most don't agree with that, but I believe it likely clears FAQ from my POV. The only way it doesn't is if scum RB'd/JK'd me and coincidentally picked the same town target I shot at on a fake BG claim. Too many if's in that statement to likely make it true.

IaI, I have a major bone to pick with you. You went off and did your own thing despite being told to shoot likely scum. If you don't lynch scum today or shoo scum tonight, I will lynch you.

He was given 3 names in the pool and he shot 1 of them.
This post is so scummy.

I don't think so. She basically told me that if I shot Talah last night that she'd vote park me today. If she was scum, she could easily follow up that statement today with a vote on me that she would never have to justify not moving. And at this point, scum would be wary of me since I have no clue who to target now, so they would obviously have no clue who I'm targeting either (unlike D2/N2 when it was obvious who I felt was scum). So long story short, yeah scum Titus votes me D3.

Going to reread some stuff, esp around the FB/DGB wagons both being at L-2 from D2 (that was when the push went to two claimed power roles), also some vote history stuff in total (with 4 flipped town and TheWorst confirmed).

I also would lke FB and DGB to cross read each other at this time.

[I Am Innocent]

If I was scum, I would claim a PR.
Just saying.

I don't recall u claiming a PR our last game together (ny 189) where u were scum lynched day 3 or 4. Correct me if I'm wrong?

[I Am Innocent]

Oh yeah I think I remember that

[I Am Innocent]

Still here and still need to catch up on the vote count analysis.

[I Am Innocent]

vote firebringer

L-1 people.

At this point the only person I'd rather lynch more is DGB, but I'm content to use a vig shot in that direction as well.

[I Am Innocent]

Ok so
Im not sure Mafia Vig is considered Normal, so i'll put that on the back burner for now, granted there's 3 possibilities for IaI's role: Town Vigilante, Serial Killer, Werewolf (or some other faction name, but for the sake of simplicity i'll call them werewolves). This puts us at 3 possibilities, 4 townies are dead

6-2-2
6-3-1
7-3

Going with either of the first 2 and being wrong today means we likely lose unless scum cross kills. Even in the later one mislynch + misvig = 4-3 which is LyLo.
BUT if IaI is NOT town and it's one of the first 2, this would put us at 3-2-2 or 3-3-1, in which case town doesnt really control the lynch anymore.
Given this i rather take the risk and lynch IaI which would give us more breathing room and would have a 66% chance of netting scum, and also would make the secondary kill dissapear on 66% of the cases.

On other news FAQ is as much as confirmed town unless this is multiball (and they are both werewolves) so if IaI flips anything but werewolf FAQ would become confirmed town, which gives me even more reason to want to lynch IaI.
Reasoning being FAQ is proven to have protected a townie unless both FAQ and IaI are lying as brought up by Titus previously, and the only way this would happen is if they are a separate mafia faction. On top of that if IaI doesnt flip werewolf FAQ is (possibly?) proven to still have a 1-shot BP which is a great boon for someone that's about to be conf town since scum cant easily kill them and on top of that can interfere with their kill.

--On another note--

I also disagree scum doesn't Bus D1, i came out of a game where scum literally cross bused each other (12p open 3 scum) on Day 1.

VOTE: IaI

You are aware that in all 3 of those instances I'm a danger to the scum team (or other scum team in the case of multi ball)

So your suggestion is to lynch someone who is a high NK target, just to confirm another player? Someone who in all 3 cases would be highly motivated to hit scum at this point in the game? Maybe I'm biased cause I know my alignment, but that doesn't feel like the right play to me...

[I Am Innocent]

How many scum do you guys think was on that AJ wagon?

I'm willing to bet at least one, maybe two.

Which wagon do you mean? I'm presuming the lynched one.

That's the whole reason why the lynch 1 shoot the other plan is in play.

The math would be we lose. What is your point?

Type it out please. I'm drunk.

Well, so far those that are left alive are:

Performer
Titus
TheWorst
ChannelDelibird
Vedith
Luna Fox
I Am Innocent
FA_Q2
Firebringer
DrippingGoofball

If we take out the three you suggest:
Performer
TheWorst
ChannelDelibird
Vedith
Luna Fox
I Am Innocent
FA_Q2

That leaves 7. If there is a 3 man scum team we would have one more day. I am not totally confident that there are 3 scum though - we have some epic PR roles and it does not appear that scum have a RB and we really do not know about a strongman. We are back to setup spec again with that though and that worked out terribly last time around. Again, what is your point with this?

Failsafe.

Rule 1 is count the bodies as town. Don't make sure that you'd lose the game if wrong.

Yeah, unless it is one scum team of 4 players, then town has another day, even if it mislynches today and has the worst night possible.

[I Am Innocent]

Once again I hate phone posting, not sure why that 1st post quoted...

[I Am Innocent]

But if this were multiball, don't u think scum would shoot me if I was faking a town vig claim?

Would it help if I said I don't want protection tonight, to put it on TheWorst instead?

I'd rather draw a scum NK shot than be mislynched personally.

[I Am Innocent]

But if this were multiball, don't u think scum would shoot me if I was faking a town vig claim?

Why? Wouldn't it be better for scum to let you help them diminish town numbers before shooting you?

For MultiBall? If I'm on a team, and I die, wouldn't my teammates still be able to "diminish town".

As for a SK/vig, pretty much what DGB said. The longer the game goes without lynching scum, the higher the prob of them hitting scum at night gets (numerator doesn't change, denominator shrinks). So yeah, at some point, you balance cost/benefit.

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone else find it suspicious that Luna decided to get off me when I claimed VT?
Like "Hey I bet we can lynch the Vigi guys!"

Now I kinda feel IaI is town.

Did u forget this town read from 32 posts ago?

Lynch with fire people.

[I Am Innocent]

Well see, at least if you are vigi, we stop you from shooting a town.
Its a win-win in my eyes.

So you want to avoid me maybe killing town at night by instead lynching someone you just said was town?

Nope sorry I don't buy it.

[I Am Innocent]

Well see, at least if you are vigi, we stop you from shooting a town.
Its a win-win in my eyes.

This is the supposed reason for changing his mind about me. And not just me, but joining the person (Luna) on my wagon he just attacked in the same post he defended me.

Straws DGB

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm voting FB

[I Am Innocent]

The subliminal messages ain't working sorry

[I Am Innocent]

And ur appeal to fear is pretty scummy too

[I Am Innocent]

Yes I shot DGB last night. Agree with Titus, the scum let my shot go through against talah, but stopped it last night.

vote DGB

With even numbers left, I plan on shooting again tonight as no difference between starting Day five with 5 or 6 players. Question is, should we announce in thread who I'm shooting, or should I just go off on my own so scum won't know?

[I Am Innocent]

Basically I think there is 2 more scum in the following 4 players:

Luna
Performer
Pignash
Vedith

Would be curious to get both FAQ's and Titus's thoughts on this list before this day ends.

[I Am Innocent]

WITH 9 ALIVE IT TAKES 5 TO LYNCH

Lol, our poor mod has had a rough game... :p

[I Am Innocent]

Guys following on my phone, but since I hate phone posting, I waited until my lunch break to post this, so hopefully I didn't forget anything...which I'm sure I did lol.

1) When FB flipped town, I debated hard on DGB vs Titus. I had concerns that Titus was guiding town so hard, as well as my vig shots. And FB did flip town which pointed to Titus being scummier right? Well the more I thought about it, I was concerned at how when DGB came into the game, she refused to read up, threw scum accusations at just about everybody, everybody except FB. From the outset, she was so sure FB was town, and never waivered on that, while many of town did. How could someone be so sure without reading the game that another player is town. Unless she is scum, then she'd be sure.

2) And then there was Titus, she defended me when I had self voted and was at L-1 Day 2. Scum Titus could have hammered me and ended things right there. But not DGB, who pushed hard on me, and then later, hard on doctor. Once again, all without reading up on the game despite many people asking her to do so that day. And all while continuing to have a town read on FB's slot.

3) So long story short, scum could not have been sure of where my vig shot was going last night, as I debated myself. So the jump on Titus to start the day is really bad. If anything, anyone who thought Titus was scum should have probably also felt I was too, which is where the vote should have gone first. That would have been way arrogant for scum Titus to properly guess where town IAI was shooting.

4) N1 - Some people are wondering if Town IAI was roleblocked and that FAQ might be scum. For that to have happened, scum would have had to have correctly guessed where my shot went that night. I guess there was some evidence that I had issues with Talah going into N1, but why not just stay quiet if FAQ is scum? So like Titus, I dont see how anyone could think FAQ is scum if I wasn't.

5) N1 continued - People are suspecting I was roleblocked last night. I'm with Luna, if there is a RB in this game, there is little doubt that they choose anyone other than Skybird N1. A RB there and she is a easy mislynch Day 2 as her message never gets out. Yeah I don't see a RB or Jailkeeper this game, otherwise N1 plays out totally different.

6) My guess is a scum doctor. Maybe a StrongMan, maybe a rolecop, those seem to line up with the roles I believe town has. But a doctor would explain why Skybird was not Roleblocked/JK N1, but why my kill did not go through N3. So yeah, I think DGB is scum, protected last night by a teammate.

7) I hear the term mafia vig being thrown around. And SK. So where did my kill go? I obviously didn't shoot myself, which is who FAQ said he protected. And why would a mafia vig waste a shot on a BP BG or no shoot when 2 kills each of the two nights would result in a mafia win (assuming 3 mafia)? SK IAI probably shoots his biggest threat, who probably was DGB. So why are people doubting the shot at DGB from me? Isn't the easier answer that DGB is scum, protected by a teammate? The same slot whose predecessor confused the wording on Day 2 from one of the town friendly neighbors (creating suspicion on both of those slots)?

8) Last but not least, why in the world would scum or SK IAI park vote for himself and allow himself to sit at L-1 D2? For a SK, that is counter to your win condition, as a lynch on a SK ends the SK's game. For a scum who people are suggesting is a mafia vig, are they going to self vote and help lynch themself and take out a team kill so the many BP protective roles can wreak havoc on mafia's NK attempts? No, a mafia vig would be way too valuable at that point in the game with all the claimed town roles.

If you think logically, what would town do, what would scum do, how would town know such things vs is this something scum would know, it all points to DGB, who has refused to fire up the scumputer until she is on the hot seat. And it is fired up with all kinds of bad assumptions. And if you don't believe that, well than vote me and we can discuss more post game.

I shot DGB last night. She didn't die. FAQ did not protect her, so scum messed with that shot. And probably not with a RB/JK based on Skybird's message going through.

So yeah, long story short, I can't see any other viable wagon other than me and her/DGB

. And if it's her, I'd like to try to have some ideas who to shoot N4, but with a likely mafia doctor (I don't think they can protect themselves), I will have to hit them as they will protect the 3rd scum if there is one. Then again, another no kill would probably give us a 2nd scum/another protected player by the mafia doc.

[I Am Innocent]

Titus what do u think of the quick vote/unvote of Pignash on DGB? Possible bus vote?

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, i'm never lynching Aj, read that entire post and I agree with everything he said in there, i'd like to add that Performer is still avoiding questions and explanations (he never explained how i misquoted him, he never explained to tallah why he randomly decideded to say that me and choof were on a scumteam)

Titus what do u think of the quick vote/unvote of Pignash on DGB? Possible bus vote?

Are you going to answer my #3757?

I have to go for a nap to suppress my urge to puke, kidney failure isn't all fun and games. You have time.

I'm going to need time since 3757 won't happen for another 20 pages. :p

In all seriousness, I have no reason to defend u. If you somehow end up as town I'm likely to either hand out some scummy nominations to someone, or else have words with bbmolla

[I Am Innocent]

Bolded below:

Well FAQ's claim lines up with mine.

X-shot Vig (at this time I don't think it benefits anyone but scum to reveal the X)

I shot Talah last night

. I'm sure that is probably going to irk some people in here, but the way I saw it, he was my top scum read that was going to be near impossible to be lynched. When he didn't die, and a claimed BP Doc said he did not target him, I figured one (or both) of him and AJ were scum, and that

if nobody claimed to have targeted Talah and he didn't claim BP, he was likely confirmed scum

.

Sorry FAQ, if you really are town aligned, you are down a shot

. May want to consider giving me a list of names that you would BG'd tonight so I stay out of that area.

Obviously my thoughts have changed:

1) Anyone that thinks town has 2 FN's, a 2 shot BP Doc, a 2 shot BP BG, and a vig is just insane. There is too much coordination that could go on starting D2 that would have even a 5 man scum team trembling.

2) FAQ is almost certainly only scum if Talah is, so no reason FAQ should be getting any more votes until we see Talah's flip.

3) AJ's claim with 1 vote still feels the most forced/fake of any here to date. I could see scum AJ panicking after nobody died and a vote coming his way. I still see little motivation for town AJ to do it.

4) I think the FNs should be given at least one more night before we even consider lynching them. Of the two, the first seems more shady to me, as Choof twice reacted badly when pressure started coming his way (first throwing a bunch of votes around, and later the claim with minimal pressure). Then again, the second did involve AJ and the chances of scum fake claiming an odd role like that which just happen to really be in the game is also minimal.

To me it comes back to the 5 town claims. There is no way town is that powered, and of the claims, the shadiest is still AJ.

vote AJ

As for my night 4 vig shot, I'm not announcing anything. But I also would like input from two people I trust the most on players as they may have some insight that I have overlooked.

[I Am Innocent]

No I do not propose a no lynch today. I hope the likely 5 town we have left can come together and vote scum. The only one I'm sure about is DGB who should be dead.

Not going to lie, I am a bit skeptical cause I think vedith is one of those 5 and he doesn't seem interested in that

[I Am Innocent]

I don't see how Titus can be scum and me and DGB be town.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't see how Titus can be scum and me and DGB be town.

I asked you: "pretend that I am town, and re-work your little exercise." You wouldn't do it. I suspect the simple explanation is that you are lazy scum and don't want to be derailed from your little gambit. But, say we're both town, who is scum?

Explain to me how we're both town. I have not seen a reasonable reason for you still being alive if town.

[I Am Innocent]

vote Titus

[I Am Innocent]

Just realized it's not MyLo unless I am lynched.

If we mislynch town I can still hit scum at night putting 3 vs 2 to start day 5

[I Am Innocent]

If Titus flips town I think I have this figured out

[I Am Innocent]

And that post helps

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Titus

Yep I now know the scum team.

Now have to play cat and mouse with the mafia doc.

Sorry Titus, hope this works out.

[I Am Innocent]

FAQ, the fact that game won't be ended should prove I'm not scum. Please protect me/don't block my shot or game over

[I Am Innocent]

Just realized it's not MyLo unless I am lynched.

If we mislynch town I can still hit scum at night putting 3 vs 2 to start day 5

No you can't unless FAQ is DGB's partner

How come you're not worried about IAI's motive in voting you??? Even I am!!!

Titus knows what I just did scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Holy cow that was tough.

Talah u were a real pain in my butt lol.

Hope nobody took offense to anything I said, it was mostly for show

Thanks mod for an interesting game

[I Am Innocent]

Ps - Pignash where did u go, I was sweating bullets after that vote switch lol

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that mafia vig claim bought me more time than I expected. I thought after the second vig on talah I was dead.

Crazy part was once I claimed I had to get lynched before my teammate. Big risk that I expected CDB to go off on me about in the scum thread lol

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI, I couldn't figure out if the math worked out for us. Walk me through it.

The mislynch today gave us 2 kills each of the next to nights (assuming none were directed at FAQ which I would have assured weren't) giving us at worst a 1 vs 1 on day 6.

[I Am Innocent]

*two nights

[I Am Innocent]

Skybird trying to lynch Worst is stupid, though. Neither FN should be targets since they both say they can resend.

Egh - actually yeah.

I can see some incredulity happening but I mean - there just could be two FN's in the setup?

Otherwise the option is that you and Worst are confirmed scum.

@Skybird
If you pre-claimed FN beforehand, how does it benefit the scumteam to counterclaim?

I'm just getting back. Public Service Announcement: I just started a new job this week and between work and the commute, I will be afk at least 10 hours of the day. I log in early morning my time before I have to leave for work and I get on after dinner. (Gotta spend some time talking to the hubby.) Anyway, during the day I just can't be here to answer questions.

To answer your question Talah, is as FN, I am confirmed town. The only way I'm not is for VG to be scum and me to be scum. I viewed the way VG revealed the message as trying to cast doubt on my FN claim. Then when Worst and AJ make their claim, it felt like they were going to try and push a lynch on me. Also, Worst didn't really seem that upset when AJ outed him. He stated he was mad, but to me it just didn't come off as real.

I will freely admit I'm a VI and don't play very well. I am trying but all I can do is try my best. So while it might not make sense to someone better reasoned at the game, it just seemed like a weird thing to claim. This is the first time I've seen FN in a game, so for there to be two just doesn't seem right.

I almost commented on this in game, but didn't want to give myself away/seem like I was buddying...

Not sure if u were being serious or not, but I think ur play was perfectly fine Skybird. It made me sad to see u call urself a VI/be so hard on urself. I never felt that way about ur slot and would definitely want to play with u again (as I would a number of people in this game).

[I Am Innocent]

Too funny, this whole game I kep thinking how much she reminded me of Sakura who I just played with

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not new to mafia, I'm not an alt.
If that's what you're asking.

Hmmmm lol

[I Am Innocent]

...
Now Verdith (whose alignment I question) and IaI (who I believe is town but has ****ed towns majorly in the past as scum) are the ones filling in.....

AJ this was my favorite comment of the game and prob another reason u got a bullet N1