Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Why thank you good sir.Pinewolf wrote:/confirm
1. What is the origin of your username?
2. Why did you choose your avatar picture?
3. What time zone are you in?
PS. Mirror, i love your username, really creative. ^^
1. My username originated one day when I was trying to find a new username to replace my old one (which was Xtremheadblo; pretty retarded if I do say so myself). I eventually came up with Mirror, but sadly it was taken everywhere. Then I thought of MirrorrorriM, but that just didn't seem to pop out enough (I am very picky). So I thought of putting an "I" in between the "Mirror"s (you know cause it kinda looks like a divider/mirror) and then I got my username, MirrorIrorriM!
2. My avatar picture I made after a comic character I once made up named Koiki. I never did anything with it but I had the picture so I decided to use it.
3. I am on the east coast of the U.S. UTC -5 I think-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.
So far I think DP is just a jerk and doesn't mark me as being scum.
Tanstalas marks me as slightly scummy for tunneling DP right off the bat, seems a little too sure of his accusations.
Pinewolf marks me as more scummy because he started accusing BrentM for things that I really didn't think made sense. His reference in post 46 to how BrentM saying "definitely" was suspicious seemed a little bit of a leap to me, perhaps he is scum searching for an excuse to get a wagon going on a town member?
@Pinewolf: Please tell me your exact intentions with the "definitely" accusation. It being too strong a word just doesn't seem to be any evidence for anything.
But until you answer,
Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf
PS. Is it bad to put someone at D-3 when there are 2 mafia? Is it considered too risky for them to be lynched unintentionally? If so I will no doubt remove my vote, really don't want to accidentally cause a lynch. ;-;-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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So you directly posted a hollow accusation just to get discussion going? Seems kinda manipulative/scummy to me. :/ Although you don't mark me as very scummy (just slightly so), I'm going to keep my vote where it is for now.Pinewolf wrote:
The thing is I'm sick and can't go anywhere out or do anything. I also don't have any movies here. So the only thing i can do is post here and lurk the internet. But nothing was happening here, so i decided to write that post as it was sure to generate some kind of discussion.
As far as i can tell it was successful. While i was sleeping you made a ton of posts. That is good. It gives me something to do, plus it moves things along. No discussion is boring and brings nothing to anyone. If anything it hides the scum better.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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lunaticlucas wrote:BrentM: Seems like the biggest douchebag EVER!!! and a little scummy with a hint of noob.
Just remember that when you point fingers at someone, there are 3 pointing back.lunaticlucas wrote:@Brent: ...I don't try to pick on people on the lower level side of intelligence. It's like starting a battle of wits with an unarmed man, but I just couldn't resist.
The best way to anger people is to come in here, only having one or two posts, and then claim someone else is a douchebag and unintelligent. It's scummy and a huge jerk move.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.LlamaFluff wrote:Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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BrentM wrote:- if pine were scum, might he have told his scum pal lunatic that I was his target and to try and get the townies against me, thus the reason for all of the hate?
Looking back at this, he could have used the "we" in the context and grammar of the original question. However, I am still suspicious because his excuse is that he isn't a native english speaker, and he didn't say the grammar thing in his defense.Pinewolf wrote:I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to communicate privately since the day already started.
@Pine : You should have used they.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Can you give a detailed explanation of why I am scummy? I can only picture myself coming off that way because of how quickly I judge people (not a good trait I admit ).LlamaFluff wrote:Pine and Mirror are scummy, but almost for sure not scum together.
Pine appears scummy to me cause he directly accused BrentM with pretty hollow evidence.LlamaFluff wrote:@Mirror - Can you summarize the Pine case?
I found this to be irrational and seemed to me him trying to lead a charge on someone to get someone lynched for no real reason. His excuse for doing so was :Pinewolf wrote:I am talking about the word definitely here. I think it's a bit of a too strong word to use here.
He says he made the accusation out of "boredom" and to get discussion going. I found that manipulative, something that mafia strive to be if I am not mistaken. But do not mistake me and think that I consider this worthy of a lynch. I find it suspicious but not worthy of a straight up lynch.Pinewolf wrote:The thing is I'm sick and can't go anywhere out or do anything. I also don't have any movies here. So the only thing i can do is post here and lurk the internet. But nothing was happening here, so i decided to write that post as it was sure to generate some kind of discussion.
As far as i can tell it was successful. While i was sleeping you made a ton of posts. That is good. It gives me something to do, plus it moves things along. No discussion is boring and brings nothing to anyone. If anything it hides the scum better.
Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.LlamaFluff wrote:Also what makes the aggressiveness of Lunatic scummy while the aggro-DP is not scummy?
The reason DP isn't scummy to me is cause, although he was a jerk, he never accused anyone of anything (unless I missed it, which is quite probable). The only vote he made was when he did an OMGUS on tanstalas. I just didn't read DP as scummy in his posts, seemed more like a SE taking his role too personally.
PS almost missed this.
Me questioning the votes made against you doesn't necessarily prove innocence. :U Although I appreciate the thought. I was merely proving my point by telling people my outlook of the situation against you. Don't let someone's actions that are for your benefit cloud your judgment.BrentM wrote:I actually feel pretty good about mirror being town. Mirror already explained why they didn't vote lunatic and Mirror also questioned the scum votes against me.
Again I ask you Llama (or anyone for that matter), please post anything I have done to appear scummy. I'm certain it was just a misunderstanding.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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OOOOHHH! I missed that. My last few posts about suspicious towards you are nearly destroyed by that. I didn't see it, totally my bad.Pinewolf wrote:I don't see it that way. I'm sorry, but i'm not a native english speaker, so that sounds exactly the way i wanted it to sound. :S
Talking from brentm's thought's perpective, that is...
I'm still a little suspicious of Pine, but I am satisfied by his defense at this point.Pinewolf wrote: Though rereading stuff now, i think it really is pretty much nonexistent. It seems more like new guy talk than scum talk, tbh. :/
Unvote-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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OK I really had no idea that scum have a higher chance of surviving. You must remember that I am totally new to this, I have only read till page 4 in one other, non completed, mafia thread (game 1033 to be exact) and gotten some knowledge from that; otherwise I would be totally lost. Although I really can't denounce that accusation with some fact, my only defense on that one is that I am new.LlamaFluff wrote:Anyways, the reasons I think Mirror is scum
This is a classic slight tell actually, as it assumes that he will be alive on D2. The players with the best chance of being alive are scum, as they are not going to get nightkilled.MirrorIrorriM wrote:Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.
Sorry, I really haven't been reading posts thoroughly enough (see post #99).LlamaFluff wrote:
While the "no L-2 fear" had already been explained, this also is sidestepping the question of why Lunatic was scummy for being a jerk.MirrorIrorriM wrote:
I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.LlamaFluff wrote:Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.
The reason I found Lunatic scummy was cause his whole thing about being intellectual seemed like him forcing a leadership position. I mean, if someone is the leader, no one would suspect them (unless, again, I am wrong). He also took the side of everyone else in blaming brent, without providing any evidence of his own to support it, or saying which evidence he used to come to the conclusion. Seemed to me he was just imitating everyone else to seem townish. Again the reason I didn't vote for him was because of the L-2 fear. Also, and I'm not sure if my original post garnered this, I had no hard evidence to support me voting for him. One post, especially someone's only post, filled with mean comments does not garner a vote in my mind.
Pretty much I just re-said this :
Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.
So yeah that quote pretty much answers accusation 2 unless I am wrong.
I don't see how that post says that I no longer find him scummy. I said he was agreeing with everyone else without providing evidence of his own or even finding other evidence to support it that someone else already said. And he was trying to garner a leadership role. Both are scummy to me. I know I'm basically saying the same thing over and over, but I really don't see how this does not answer both of your questions.LlamaFluff wrote:
But you called him scummy when you initally brought it up. What changed between then and now?Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.
Basically you just accused me of something I already addressed. If I wasn't clear I will reiterate again.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Nice to hear from you. However there is no edit function cause it is illegal to edit your posts, under penalty of modkill. I recommend you read the rules on the first page.VOT Productions wrote:Noticed there's no edit function, so I'll make a second post.
What do you mean by not voting? You mean can't vote or haven't voted?
Not to sound like a jerk, but this is acting VERY CHUMMY towards a person who was just making a ton of accusations towards you. As soon as I took my vote off of you, you acted as if I was now your ally. Seems like your desperate to gain friends in this game.Pinewolf wrote:I'm starting to think the same way, mirror.
I can't decide between the lunatic and pine case. Both have evidence behind them. Pine with his manipulative playstyle and making so many excuses for himself, and Lunatic with his meta being completely inconsistent with this game (nice as apposed to controlling and cruel); I do not think they are on the same TEAM though. For now I like my vote where it is, however.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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The way I see it, you are saying people are reading too deeply into your posts, something which we are SUPPOSED to be doing.Pinewolf wrote:
Oh and why do you think so?DavidParker wrote:Pine seems like OBV. scum at this point.
That is AWFULLY convenient. You can just claim whatever post you want is for "fun" and cannot be taken seriously. Also you just voted for VOT, without any evidence besides the fact that his posts are void of information and that he hasn't posted much. Seems like a stretch to draw attention away from yourself, at least to me.Pinewolf wrote:So don't try to read too much into fun posts. I might post some from time to time.
Your really close to me putting you at L-1.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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I love how you just shrug off my accusations and say "oh it can be taken either way" everytime I make an accusation. Your not offering any hard evidence against my case against you(lol). You repeatedly brush off my case as being ridiculous, you vote for someone like VOT to get pressure off of you, and now you say we shouldn't take your posts seriously. Sounds like a panicking scum to me (might just be my newbishness though).Pinewolf wrote:@mirror
I said you read into my fun post too deep. It wasn't really a relevant game post, just wanted to tell king how i make my posts. Thought i'd throw in something funny or sth. I thought it would be very obvious that it's not meant to be taken too seriously because of the smiley. I rarely use smilies. And if i do, take the post with a grain of salt.
Awfully convenient? Again, it's something that can be taken either way. In no way do I mean to abuse this and claim i meant a post to be fun when it was not. With as much reading into my posts as you guys do, i thought that would be obvious already...
Preview edit: I shall make another post concerning DP...
@King I find you saying to "Lynch Lunatic first cause he's lurking" disturbing; scum-buddies with pine perhaps? Like DP said, if you lynch someone ACTIVE you can get much more conclusive evidence against them. Lurking helps find scum, it isn't a guarantee to my knowledge.
@DP I don't like you pushing me to vote for pine. You say to "hurry up and do it" yet we have 2 weeks to go. Although I find this mildly suspicious, I was going to do it anyways so.
Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf
This puts him at L-1, I request that no one hammer him yet; we have 2 weeks to go here people, we might be able to find his scumbuddy.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Pinewolf wrote:
tbh. I find this highly suspicious. What's the hurry? Why are you so eager to lynch me? Do you have some other motive than scum hunting? It really colides with your early in day 1 statement. I have been careful not to put anyone at L-1 because of exactly that reason. But you show us 2 different ideas in 1 post.DavidParker wrote:Hurry up and vote for Pine now!
Actually he said it is OK, just so long as you mention it to everyone. Do I detect more hollow accusations?DavidParker wrote:Generally, just make it known if you put someone at L-1 or L-2 if you do so early in the game. There is nothing wrong with doing it.
In response to post #137:
So you don't WANT to manipulate the truth, but you do so blatantly without caring. That's like a hitman saying he doesn't WANT to kill, it just puts bread on the table (note that I am not comparing YOU to a killer, just your statement to an excuse that could be used by one). Wanting to do something and doing it are two different things. We aren't blaming you for WANTING to manipulate people, we are blaming you FOR manipulating people.
You basically just described yourself. You just said that because your a newbie playing in a newbie game that you are innocent. You basically just said it can't be you because you are you.
In response to post #138:
I know that you didn't mean that ALL of your posts are for fun. Just SOME of them, and the whole "smiley" thing really sucks. While I understand that line of thinking "oh I'll just put a smiley so people know I'm not serious", it is really convenient to bring that up now that all of this heat is on you.
And your whole "you have to read my posts thoroughly" can be said as "interpret all my posts as if I am not scum".-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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'Cause he is totally just going to come out and say it.DavidParker wrote:So, who's your scum buddy?
I will admit I miss things alot, I'm still getting used to this whole mafia thing. You must have quite a keen eye (don't really have one ) to play it. :UPinewolf wrote:I'm starting to hate the fact that i have to write everything 2 times to you mirror. For as much as you look for inconsistencies in my posts, you fail to notice my posts as whole and what i already adressed and what not...
@ LlamaFluff: Are you perhaps Pine's scumbuddy?
Almost posted before this :
I don't want to lynch prematurely, want to have the most ideal possible situation. And you blame me for WANTING to lynch you. I don't want to lynch YOU, I want to lynch SCUM; something I believe you are.Pinewolf wrote:Then it looks like we have different opinions on what manipulating means...
Hollow accusations i don't think so. It's not about putting somebody at L-1 or L-2. His posts make it seem like he wants tolynchme. Which is inconsistent with what he's saying in the exact same post. It seems like he's hiding behind a case against me but adding subtle hints into his posts. I wrote something similar in that post, yet you decided to ignore it...
Ok, this is starting to become pointless. I obviously won't change your mind, no matter what i say. I responded to all the accusations multiple times and i really don't feel like repeating myself anymore. I'm not gonna respond to same accusations time and time again. Even if it's something from this very post...
Then you say you wrote something similar in that post. I don't see it, so quote it directly. If you aren't scum then I am wasting the town's time blaming you. My best interests are the towns interests, which is lynching scum, not town. If you give me reason to no longer suspect you, I will by all means take it.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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@Pine Well alright then. You didn't use the "@playername" thing so I was unable to tell who you were talking too. :U You cant really blame me for that one.Pinewolf wrote:lolwut? I'm not at L-1? huh...
No problem DP.
@mirror. I was talking about DP wanting to lynch me, not you. (again...)
It was what you quoted. That bunch of questions. I'm sorry that it might not be perfectly clear and it confuses (or sth) you. It's merely the same thing said with different words.
Oh...sorry? I guess I'm taking this game really seriously, first one after all.DavidParker wrote:I have to admit, Mirror's sense of humour is somewhat lacking.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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I thought you were scum buddies because you defended him while alot of other people were accusing pine. It was sort of a mild suspicion for you defending him for whatever reason, nothing more.KingTwelveSixteen wrote:@MirrorIrorriM: Why do you think me and Pine are scumbuddies? Also, when did he "manipulate the truth"? Preview edit: Urgh, everybodys posting to quick for me to finish my post! He be all accusing LlamaFluff now, please explain this reasoning as well. As long as we're making claims for mafia partners, how about MirrorIrorriM and DavidParker, he did after all list you as "Obvious town", you seem to take your cues from him a bit and his recent "you ARE mafia, period." type of posting on Pine makes him seem scummy. Also he just ninja'd me with a post seemingly defending you for your whole "not notice joke" thing (which I won't comment on.), but if Pine flips town I could see this as defending you, his scumbuddy, from suspicion.
Pine didn't "manipulate the truth", he just plain manipulated. He made a hollow accusation, knowing there was none there, simply to get discussion going about a person. This marked me as scummy, you know, like he was trying to get someone lynched for no reason. Town's goal is to lynch scum, mafia's goal is to lynch and kill everyone else. They don't need evidence, just need to be able to rouse suspicions and plant seeds of doubt and treachery.
And the thing about LlamaFluff was more sarcastic, otherwise I would have pursued it. It was supposed to be a light joke because DP was just like, "so who is your scum buddy" and Llama defended pine and I'm just ITS HIM. It was a fail joke I am sorry.
Also the whole DP thing is pretty suspicious.KingTwelveSixteen wrote:whee, triple post.N-N-N-NINJA'D-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Speaking of VOT, what is your take on all of this? I would really like to hear from you and Lunatic.bv310 wrote:Also, in the interests of pure readability for the players in this game, as well as my own sanity when doing vote counts, I'd like to request KingTwelveSixteen and VOT Productions get avatars.
@VOT & Lunatic: Please comment with some worthwhile information. You guys are being REALLY lurky and it is quite unsettling.
Preview Edit: oh hey lunatic your alive, good to hear from you.
Preview Edit again: Yes BrentM, you have been pretty distant from all of this, please say something.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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OK I don't know where to start to I will just cover them as I think of them.King wrote:Tons of stuff he said
You blame me for the "manipulating the truth" thing. That is a simple miswording. I got excited and started shooting out posts like a maniac. It is a simple miswording, I meant to say he was "manipulating the town". Manipulating the truth would be lying, something he never did to my knowledge (only thing he could lie about is the language barrier).
You question my accusation of Tanstalas tunneling DP. That was before I learned how great an accusation "tunneling" is. A better word would have been that he ACCUSED him right off the bat.
You question me for saying "I really had no idea that scum have a higher chance of surviving". Truth is, two people die every night, the chances of mafia dying would be quite high right? I didn't think about the fact that one of those people the mafia specifically exclude to kill each night. I really didn't think the game through that much until Llama called it out. Also when I say "I didn't think it through" know that it didn't occur to me at all. Call me an imbecile.
You blame me for answering something someone else asked. Notice that I did the same when Pine asked about your avatar. :U I'm just that kinda guy, if I see a question I have any sort of an answer to, I spring for it.
At one part you have a string of 4 questions, they are:
1. Whats with the (lol)?
2. "Sounds like a panicking scum to me (might just be my newbishness though)." Trying to defend yourself from inevitible town flip?
3. Takes a cue from DP, also suggests me being scum-buddies with Pine.
4. Says he doesn't like DP pushing him to vote for Pine but does so anyway.
Answers:
1. I did the lol because I said "...hard evidence against my case against you". I just think it is funny how I repeated against. Like, I am against you for being against my case against those who are against - ect.
2. I honestly can't trust my own opinion in my first game of mafia. *shrug* It is just such a new experience, with me never playing a game like it, that I make assumptions very quickly and do not know yet how to read peoples reactions. To me that seemed like he was panicking. I was kinda hoping someone experienced would tell me if that is the nature of panicking scum and correct me if I was wrong.
3. I did NOT take a cure from DP when I voted for Pine. When I visit this thread, I read all the new posts, from beginning to end. About half way through them I saw stuff that convinced me that Pine was scum (him making excuses). So I had it in my mind to do so, however DP already said that people should go ahead and vote for him. It was a coincidence, one that I addressed actually when I said "I don't like you pushing me to vote for pine...Although I find this mildly suspicious, I was going to do it anyways so.". I said you are scum-buddies in a paranoid fit because you defended Pine.
4. Kinda covered by 3 but I'll answer it anyways. I Didn't like DP pushing me yes, but is that reason to not do so? If someone told you to look up the information to back this post I'm currently addressing, would you not do it? No you would still do it, because you PLANNED to do it anyways. I already had it in my mind to vote for Pine, DP just so happen to ask me to.
The accusation about my joke accusing Llama, while I was DIRECTLY blaming Pine for joke stuff: I was completely hypocritical in doing so I will admit. I really wasn't thinking. I have no excuse, I wasn't tired, I wasn't doing something else and was distracted, I just did something really stupid. I was thinking I would add a lighthearted air to all of this seriousness. You know, lighten the moment. So I decided to do it as a funny response to DP's post saying "So who is your scum buddy?" to pine. Unfortunately for me, the correlation between my joke and this post wasn't realized. As was latter addressed, my sense of humor is quite lacking. What I thought would be a nice funny touch completely failed and was misinterpreted.
Like I said before though. The accusation on you was made in a paranoid rage. :U I would be lying if I said I did it jokingly.-
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Warning this post has been made really late at night. I might wake up in the morning and realize this is stupid or something, just be advised.
Well it seems all the heat for the Pine case has cooled down *shrug*. I tried to make you crack under pressure Pine, but you managed to stay cool whilst we thought you were at L-1. I really do not have any more evidence against you to continue my case. So for now:
Unvote
Preview Edit:
@ King in answer to him saying I answered 4.c wrong.
Me agreeing with DP is simply cause it makes sense in my mind. If you are at a court case and the criminal is sick, do you still arrest him? No, you try to hold the court on another day (unless he dodges it like crazy, then you force it). If someone is unavailable to make a case, and there are other cases going on with evidence behind them, wouldn't it make more sense to pursue those to get information?
And again if it need be addressed. My accusation against you was simply because I am being paranoid about this game. Your case against me seems too honest for me to really call you scum at all. [following text from your perspective] I mean this guy is making some steep accusations. He could be scum trying to get us to lynch some poor innocent townie! [/no longer in your perspective] It is an honest, well backed case. Although I have plenty of evidence to denounce* your accusations in an honest manner.
*Except the cases where I used an improper word or was joking and it was misinterpreted or claimed I did it out of being a newbie. No tangible evidence can be provided against that. For those cases you would have to weigh a mafia member's options and their advantages realistically. [in your perspective] What would he gain from lying here, what would he gain from claiming it as fluke? [/no longer in your perspective] I would have gained nothing (unless, again, there is some strategy I am unaware of) to help further my case. Therefore it must be a fluke.
Preview Edit 2:Spoiler:
@ Lunatic: Although it isn't a free pass sort of thing, I would think it would be more advantageous for the mafia to be active (or at least present) on the first day when the evidence is the most shakey. When the following days come there is more evidence to go around, meaning mafia want to be quiet so they don't say something to connect evidence (night kills, who they accused ect) to them.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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By the way, I counted 6 posts in other mafia games during his "finals" away session; none of which say he is going to be away in the other games. All of the posts are within 2 days and are less then a few hours apart; meaning he had plenty of time for uninterrupted posting. Whats the matter Llama? Is this game not working out for you?MirrorIrorriM wrote:BrentM you make a very excellent point. I would like to hear answers from you Llama.
Vote: LlamaFluff-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Oh hey someone already said the fact that he posted 6 times when he said he was supposed to be away. I missed the specific number. :\ I completely missed that even though it was in the center of the post I quoted.
BrentM wrote:Pine, Llama's actions are the reason for my theory. Your scrambling defense only makes me feel stronger about it. You can't keep playing the newbie card on me and no, I do not think Llama is protecting town.
Also, I read a game where DP was the doctor and aggressiveness is definitely his playing style.
@BrentM: I disagree with you saying the defense was a scrambling one. Although I doesn't remove my suspicion of him, he does make a representable case. He explained himself for the VOT vote; giving solid reasoning behind it. It was a vote to convince him to speak up, it probably wasn't intended to get him lynched.Pinewolf wrote:Spoiler:
@DP: I have to agree with pine on this one, your eagerness to lynch Pine just doesn't feel right. It feels just so...sure of itself. Either it's you being a reckless townie or scum trying to get someone lynched. If not for you creating evidence of your own to back your claims on occasion I would blame you for just trying to blend into the crowd to avoid suspicion.
@Pine: Although you are still the top on my scum-suspicion list, you have provided a case for yourself. A case that, for the time being, keeps my vote off of you. I do not think you have much solid evidence for yourself though. Merely your attitude doesn't feel extraordinarily scummy to me (could just be that my scum-radar hasn't developed). You do make a huge thing about the "Llama and you being scum buddies" thing that I don't agree with though. Yes the accusation assumes you are scum, this is true, but don't all accusations? We know there are 2 scum, both are looking out for each other, you and Llama follow this quite perfectly. It is to our best interest to discover who could be your possible accomplice if you turn out to be scum, that way we have something to go off D2.
@Llama: I really want to hear from you, your disappearance is quite suspicious.
Preview Edit: OK wall post by DP, let me just finish this post and I'll read it.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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DavidParker wrote:BIIIIG wall post
I'm really just digesting your comeback. I don't like how you had nothing about the accusation with me and you being scumbuddies though. You being so nice to me really puts off a bad image.DavidParker wrote:Also, what is everyone's opinions on Tanstalas' "role speculation" that I brought up? Do you find it valid?
Your analyzation of Pine and his case blow mine away. Mostly because you have the experience to know what is and what isn't a scum-tell whereas I do not. Mostly your accusations are based on the the assumption that Pine is flailing desperately to get the attention off of him. Something which a struggling scum would no doubt do.
Your accusation that King's wall post was crap confuses me. I thought it was quite good.
As to your speculation of Tanstalas trying to expose the power roles; I think it is a stretch. It seems like he is trying to give advice as one of the non-newbies here. I feel like it was quite an honest attempt at helping (again for the millionth time, this could be my newbishness showing).
I really feel like Llama is more scum then Tanstalas though. Llama practically lied with the whole "away for finals" thing. He remained active in other games but ignored this one. Seems awfully convenient for him to just avoid this game after making the accusations and points that he did. Keeps the blame/attention off of him you know?-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Your accusation that I just made some "quick move" to vote for Lunatic is simply not true. I had posted saying I didn't like the vibe of his posts, saying it was suspicious and I had the whole "leadership role" and "he is just jumping on an already popular wagon" thing. After King did his post showing that Lunatic played totally different in other games, I took this (being new) as irrefutable evidence and jumped on it. I later learned that metas aren's as reliable as I thought. Which is why I no longer pursued the case, simply because he has so few posts I couldn't form and hold an accusation at the time.LlamaFluff wrote:Spoiler:
My thing about having an odd switch up with Pine is simply because I was very caught between them both. I really could not decide who I thought was more scummy. I just sorta staggered at parts and voted for whichever one offered a better gut feeling at the time. Although now I don't think Lunatic is as scummy as Pine.
I feared putting Pine as L-1 cause I was afraid scum would lynch him right off the bat and we would never learn anything from him or he wouldn't be able to offer a case if he was innocent. I later learned this is horrible practice for mafia (makes sense) as it reveals them.
Your accusation that scum love to try and get scumbuddies before conclusive evidence is placed on someone also I can deny. Doesn't it make sense to try and learn as much as possible in one day? What is better, just lynching someone who you know to be scum (no one in particular, just a term used in example); or lynching them, and also learning who their buddies are, their respective roles in the mafia, and everyone they are pursuing and why? I thought it would be best to try and look to see who his scum buddy would be, because he really does mark me as the scummiest person here. Except right now I feel it is you (but that is totally bias cause you are pushing me right now, ask me in 2 rl days and I will probably have a different opinion.)
Your whole thing of manipulation as a townie just isn't right in my mind. :\ Town have no real reason to ever lie or bend the truth. Everything can be deduced with honesty and justice if you try hard enough.
Preview Edit: OK huge wall post by Pine, gonna have to read up on that and comment later.-
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@Llama
I forgot to answer your question about whether I think DP is scum or not. Truth is I really don't like how he sounds. He just comes in and destroys cases. Not like he comes in and provides tons of evidence though. He went into King's post and goes "I could pick this thing apart, but I wont". He gives off a vibe of being so sure of himself it is suspicious. He is pushy, especially towards me (I'm easily manipulated I admit). He just assumes a leadership position, something which was half of my case against Lunatic. If all this Pine stuff turns out to just be some futile argument among townies, he is definitely going to shoot to the top of my suspicion list. My biggest vibe against him is how hard he is pushing Pine. I think Pine is scum for the most part, no doubting that. But he acts like he KNOWS your scum. I said this before I think; DP acts like either a completely reckless town, or a scum pushing a popular wagon (Pine's).-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Alright I'm back! And...Nothing really happened except for an accusation made by King. You people disappoint me.
After reading King's post:
Very good points. Questioning people, getting on them for not answering questions, and refusing questions when they are asked to you. Sounds really scummy.
@DP Would really like to hear a defense from you if you will please offer one.
Unvote
Vote: DavidParker
(This is more of a "bringing on the heat" kinda vote. I still don't like Llama (which is TOTALLY biased cause he voted for me ) but I would REALLY like to hear a response from DP. He has been suspicious for a LOOONG time now.)-
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With a quote like:BrentM wrote:
Game I was referring toBrentM wrote:I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.
And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15318
I noticed a lot of the same rash behavior he has displayed in here, but that is by no means an excuse
on page 4.DavidParker wrote:Timmer is town, Dean is scum.
Let's get moving towards his lynch now.
He turns out to be doctor in that game, how can we be sure of anything?!-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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Referring to me or someone else? If me then I really have to apologize. I took my vote off of him because he made a nice case for himself I thought. I wanted to branch out and find scummier people. I guess it doesn't make sense for me to take the vote OFF of him but it doesn't make much of a difference in my mind. If I find someone scummier, I put my vote on them, if I find no one else or I find more evidence against Pine, I vote for him again. It really doesn't seem to make sense that it is contradictory. It makes no real difference in the long run.KingTwelveSixteen wrote:He contridicted himself in a single post and you only think he's slightly scummy? That seems extrordinarily scummy to me. I mean the contradiction, not your not thinking he's scummy.-
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iso 22? What's that?LlamaFluff wrote: It seemed that you decided Pine was scum around your iso 22. Just almost was a matter of convincing yourself that it was true.
What does the cop have to do with this? I was talking about what the roles of the mafia are. You know like, find out who the mafiaroleblocker is so you know to lynch them to be more efficiant. :ULlamaFluff wrote:Well, if scum knows they have a cop confirmed guilty on them the best play is to actually stop posting entirely if they know they cant get the cop lynched in return. Its fine to think about who partners are, I do that all the time whenever I push someone. I even think about it as scum when I make pushes of who I can make look like partners to who. Its a very dangerous thing to start discussing publicly though because it can easily be manipulated beyond reason. Its rare to get a 100% for sure scum flip though, ive been playing for over two years and I only have been more then about 80-90% sure of a scum flip just a few times.
Also your thing about manipulation I still don't agree with. Although I see the obvious advantage of it, I still think it is wrong to manipulate people, you know, from the moral sense.
Also in response to everyone's thing about my craaaazy voting pattern: I don't see the big deal. Earlier on the same kinda thing was happening. Like when King posted,
JUST to get my attention and read my reaction (as he later said); no one got on his case. Or when I posted,KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Whatever,VOTE: MirrorIrorriM,I need to post this.
No one accused me for doing then either! I don't see what changed since then.MirrorIrorriM wrote: @Pinewolf: Please tell me your exact intentions with the "definitely" accusation. It being too strong a word just doesn't seem to be any evidence for anything.
But until you answer,
Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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OK BACK! Sorry I was too busy to post. I stayed caught up with everything though.
Sure thing. It is his iso post 24LlamaFluff wrote:
Can you quote a post on that for me?He went into King's post and goes "I could pick this thing apart, but I wont". He gives off a vibe of being so sure of himself it is suspicious.
I was a little off in my wording. But the meaning was the same.DavidParker wrote: I'm sorry. I actually chuckled to myself.I was actually going to respond to King's post and just tear it to peaces but I can see he's trying.(And I think he's probably town but due to different reasons to you, I just get a newbie town vibe from him). King's huge wall post was useless.-
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MirrorIrorriM Goon
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You claim I am scumbuddies with Tanstalas, how do you come to that conclusion?LlamaFluff wrote:I still say Pine is town, and what he claims. Other town are DP and Brent, KTS is getting there quickly. Think that Mirror and Tans are a decent pair for scum, lurker can easily work there too. Mod really should be on him more, three posts in ten days is unacceptable.
You've been on my back almost this entire game and it is really starting to seem like a hollow case honestly. *shrug* I might have made some typos and mistakes here and there; but your constant persistence of lynching me when there is no real evidence to back your claims is really starting to get tiring. It almost seems like you have singled me out to chase down and get lynched. All mistakes and "scumtells" that you have blamed me for are merely mistakes on a newbie player's part. Sure if you use reverse psychology you can see that certain tactics in the long run are bad for town, but I am trying my best here. I haven't read any games (except for a few pages in newbie game 1033), I haven't played any other games; any advice that comes to mind that seems good at face value appears worthwhile in my mind, even if scum often use it to deceive others.
@Pinewolf: Claiming vanilla townie eh? I'll have to remember you said that for future reference.-
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Not doing what you say you are going to then changing your vote right as everyone is going "Eh, I guess we should lynch Pine anyway then"?KingTwelveSixteen wrote:As much as i think not lynhing someone who has claimed VT isn't very pro-town, as long as we are lynching scum i am happy. AT the moment i am more convinced of tanst scum than pine scum. Although I still find pine quite scummy and a "possible" buddy for tanst.
(Or at least I was doing that.)
You are making me ever-more convinced of your scummyness. Please respond to the things we are accusing/asking you about.[/quote]
Very good points. But I still feel Pine to be the scummiest here. Although my reasons for thinking that seem so distant now. I still kinda don't believe your whole "english isn't my first language" thing; however, I do not have any sort of a meta to back my suspicion, so to be fair I have to consider that as being true for the most part. I guess the only person who I have any suspicion towards besides Pine is Tanstalas, DP, and Llama.
Tanstalas is just a hunch though, I couldn't find anything when I skimmed him in iso. I'm still trying to see Llama's case about us being scumbuddies...just doesn't make much sense to me.
DP has acted strangely this game, which I think is suspicious. Although, again, his meta shows that he is really reckless even as a PR.
Llama has this whole thing about Pine not being scum, although looking in iso he only said one time that he was scummy in his 12th iso post. I would call him scum with Pine, but that is (like it has been said before) completely dependent on Pine being scum. Otherwise he was just trying to protect a newbie with heat on him, which appears to me to be the more likely choice. The main thing I don't like is his attacks against me (guess why, just guess). At first he just hinted that I might be scum, then brought it into a big assault against me; I denounced it and he disappears for a bit. Then he resurfaces, and accuses me again! Seems like someone trying to, as he claims is such a great "town" tactic, covertly manipulate people against me.
@Pine: Not true at all. For you maybe, but for Llama that makes no sense. Me and Llama's situation are quite different. People haven't been seriously on Llama's case like I have on yours. Oh and also people haven't been on my case nearly as much as they have on yours. If you put yourself in my shoes the situation isn't as severe.Pinewolf wrote:
Ok. Now change yourself with me and Llama with DP and you pretty much have our situation...MirrorIrorriM wrote: (My little rant)
As for who I really think is scum at this point...I just don't know. Either all my previous suspects have learned to hide their mistakes, or I was wrong. I just don't know who to believe anymore.
Also I don't really see the point of the whole "he is innocent cause he got emotional" case. It just marks me as a last ditch effort to seem good.
Oh wow this is longer then I expected. Sorry!-
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@Llama for post #285: You say "see previous cases", didn't I respond and answer all of those? You haven't responded to my defense at all, you just seem to be ignoring it.
@Tanstalas: I'll try and take you up on your offer of reading your metas. However, this could be you being scum and your playing a new strategy, which would explain your eagerness to have us meta you. However, on the same token, you could be town wanting to clear your head from suspicion. I'll try and remember to read them in the morning.
@DP: Please answer King's questions and his cases against you. You said earlier to engage in conversation that would help us to find scum, whereas you dodge all questions sent towards you by acting like they are ridiculous. I got on Pine for that earlier, and now I'm kinda ticked that your doing it too.
By the way that post of DP's is:
Preview Edit: Oh hey DP finally answered the questions.DavidParker wrote:So why aren't youposting in a way to get reactions/find information/analyse playersso you can find a person who is "worthy" of your vote? Wouldn't that be the pro-town thing to do, rather than throwing in the towel, saying "i have no idea, i'll just put a vote on this guy for nor reason, and that's the end of my post"-
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On the DP wagon: Remember when you vote DP for not answering questions and playing so aggressively that he ALWAYS plays like that in every game I have looked at that he is in. Although he is nearly on equal levels with my suspicion as Pine, he has a meta to back his case of that just being his playstyle; no matter how much I or anyone dislikes it.
@DP: Even if you find questions to be ridiculous and you deem them "unworthy" to be answered. Please do so anyways! Sometimes people make quite reasonable requests and your ignoring of it makes so we cant scumhunt as well.-
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To clear up the underlined area (grammar was a little weird). "No matter how much I or anyone else dislikes his playstyle."MirrorIrorriM wrote:On the DP wagon: Remember when you vote DP for not answering questions and playing so aggressively that he ALWAYS plays like that in every game I have looked at that he is in. Although he is nearly on equal levels with my suspicion as Pine, he has a meta to back his case of that just being his playstyle;no matter how much I or anyone dislikes it.
@DP: Even if you find questions to be ridiculous and you deem them "unworthy" to be answered. Please do so anyways! Sometimes people make quite reasonable requests and your ignoring of it makes so we cant scumhunt as well.-
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Because, assuming you are scum, intentionally ignoring questions that would lead to you being lynched might make the person forget about them. Making you go in the clear once attention is diverted from you.DavidParker wrote:What makesintentionallyignoring questions a scum tell? Is it not just anti-town?
Because it is an easy excuse for anyone (scum) to make. You using it constantly to avoid questions just makes you seem super scummy.DavidParker wrote:The "i'm too lazy defence", once again how is that scummY?
Now you're just being a jerk.DavidParker wrote:Btw, this is number 5 (in terms of ignoring those questions)
I'm equally torn between Pine and DP, however I don't believe they could be scum buddies; DP pushed Pine too hard for that I think. However, then again, you have played plenty of games up to this point. So you might just be going all reverse psychology on us (although that can be said for literally anything).
I loled at this. But seriously DP, you are putting up a horrible defense.KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Ah, so your defense is now that you are just anti-town.
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Do I even need to say why I think we should lynch you anymore?
Like I said, I am completely torn between the DP and Pine case and can't decide between them.
Unvote
Preview Edit:
Oh hey DP. I think you are forgetting King HAS scum hunted others. And also you say he is "ignoring the lurker".Didn't you say yourself that it is better to lynch someone active who you have evidence against, then to just lynch some random lurker on day one?This complete self-contradiction to further your case locks your position as scum in my mind.
Vote: DavidParker-
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By the way, here is that quote I mentioned.
That quote is his iso 17.DavidParker wrote:I'd rather lynch someone day one because they have contributed and acted, but done so in a scummy way, than because they haven't contributed or acted at all.You get more information from lynching someone who has put down their thoughts and I find it's just as likely (if not more likely) to flip scum.
Lynching someone for "lurking" or not contributing gets us where? Day 2 lynches/discussion will largely be as a result of the flip(town or scum) of the person who gets lynched on day 1 (and to a lesser extent the night kill), so an information lynch (on someone who is scummy) is more desired than a lynch on someone for lurking/not doing enough. They can be dealt with at a later time.-
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