Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[DarthPunk]

Alright not using tracker to track mafia night kill is easy mafia

Do you know how the role works? Or what?

I feel like im getting gaslit everytime i talk to these new people.

Do you?

Yes why else would i say it?

So the mafia factional kill has to be carried by someone but you can’t track them? Is that your understanding?

No i could track them. But the mafia chooses who kills among their team on this site. Given how under the radar Naerys was, if she was scum its not unlikely she wouldnt carry out the kill.

So why track them at all?

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: gob

We need to decide if we want to just quickly yeet gob and move on or if we want to talk for a while knowing we will yeet gob.

I’m fine either way.

[DarthPunk]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

Im taking my time to reorient myself into the game based on the flips.

Im pretty sure there is at least one more mafia on my wagon above so I am looking at Luca/HT and Grack right now.

I would really love the team to be Luca/HT/gob cause then I was correct from the close to the start of the game

I don't think vivax and gob makes much sense paired together. Unless the early pressure on Vivax by gob was a distancing attempt?

[DarthPunk]

i guess I'll take a closer look at vivax/gob as well.

[DarthPunk]

unsure why Ninja is getting all the heat for bad reads when like Roden/Dunnstral/HuTao were basically consensus null/scum reads all of yesterday

Agreed with this too. Thoughts on who had the worst beginning of day today?

probably oats by a country mile, idk I haven't thought about it too much yet

the wording of 2431 feels weirdly pedantic, like he's trying to give himself an out in case he was tracked to the kill or something

I was ready to push Dannflor come day from this (It's like he knew of a tracker's existence, also very set on pushing Oats).

Odd kill imo.

Worth noting that Oats was the first to really call out scum gob in this game, and Oats got limmed not long ago, though it felt like an eternity.

What do you think this means? What are your reads atm?

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

You realise he got hammered while I was asleep right?

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

can you explain this for me?

[DarthPunk]

Vivax, your DP - HT scum team makes sense on actually zero levels. Putting aside the fact that I know I am town, I don't understand objectively how anyone could arrive at that conclusion naturally.

So can you explain how that works for you a little more?

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

can you explain this for me?

Red/Blue blindness is more likely to be from town for one.
He probably correctly identified Dann as not being VT at the very least.

Do you think he could have been blue sniped?

[DarthPunk]

Oats if you get eliminated now and flip scum you're going to get me shot.

It's really going to bolster my reputation.

That post from scum Grack would be Oscar worthy.
He did have gob and Hu Tao in his last list previously. I can see Hu Tao.

Hu Tao and ???

Is this a sort by postcount, become mafia pro game?

I have Nearys and Ninja as lock town. I think HT/Luca, HT/Grack, HT/Vivax all make sense in some way.

[DarthPunk]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

You realise he got hammered while I was asleep right?

Vivax, was this actually a legit read from you?

[DarthPunk]

Maybe I should stick to Luca despite the Dannflor kill. It just seems like an unlikely pick for Luca if he's mafia here. Dannflor wasn't really threatening to anyone in particular. Maybe the Ninja townread gave him away?

Luca was pretty much tunneled on Oats, who flipped town. And this is probably the worst post in his ISO:

I'll let oats hammer and claim that precious towncred. He's gonna need it.

I am basically assuming Dann was a blue snipe or a respect kill from someone who is familiar with him. He is apparently a very strong player on this site.

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

You realise he got hammered while I was asleep right?

Vivax, was this actually a legit read from you?

It's not about the hammer. What was bothering me on the reread was that you spent more time arguing on why Oats was town, among other things, over pushing gob over the edge. I am not used to this passivity from you, but it would make more sense given that we're offsite.

And you did end up with Hu Tao on gob at the end of the day, which is a convenient optic if you're both mafia.
I'm good with taking this day slowly and see what everyone finds.

Ok, then I call bullshit vivax.

If you read that section of the day, then you would know that I had said that I wanted to use the full time, talk to OOO and I was directly concerned about exactly what happened, which was a quick hammer and an OOO nk without him posting up to date reads.

Why would I hard push a yeet when we had 3-4 days left and I specifically wanted to talk to OOO?

I am pretty sure the last thing I said before everyone yeeted oates was that I didn't want to yeet anyone right now.

So are you just making this shit up or what?

[DarthPunk]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

I don't think that was alignment indicative.

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

You realise he got hammered while I was asleep right?

Vivax, was this actually a legit read from you?

It's not about the hammer. What was bothering me on the reread was that you spent more time arguing on why Oats was town, among other things, over pushing gob over the edge. I am not used to this passivity from you, but it would make more sense given that we're offsite.

And you did end up with Hu Tao on gob at the end of the day, which is a convenient optic if you're both mafia.
I'm good with taking this day slowly and see what everyone finds.

Ok, then I call bullshit vivax.

If you read that section of the day, then you would know that I had said that I wanted to use the full time, talk to OOO and I was directly concerned about exactly what happened, which was a quick hammer and an OOO nk without him posting up to date reads.

Why would I hard push a yeet when we had 3-4 days left and I specifically wanted to talk to OOO?

I am pretty sure the last thing I said before everyone yeeted oates was that I didn't want to yeet anyone right now.

So are you just making this shit up or what?

So you are saying that you just couldn't bake your posts out in time to be more determined? Fair enough I suppose.
Would you remind me, who did quickhammer Oats in the end? Including the E-2 vote. Because if you cared about it then, shouldn't you care about it now?

It was gob.

[DarthPunk]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

I'm eyeing Hu Tao + DP now.

Hu Tao mostly because of her D1. I think that in the context of what I now know to have been a lot of townies and gob scum, her posts struck me as very noncommittal when there was a lot to talk about.

DP because on the day Oats got limmed, he was rather passive about it. Meaning, he had gob as lock mafia and Oats he said would have had to be supermafia for him to believe he was mafia, basically. Either way, I didn't see a lot of conviction on his part.

Luca's first post in the context of this Dann NK was spot on.

You realise he got hammered while I was asleep right?

Vivax, was this actually a legit read from you?

It's not about the hammer. What was bothering me on the reread was that you spent more time arguing on why Oats was town, among other things, over pushing gob over the edge. I am not used to this passivity from you, but it would make more sense given that we're offsite.

And you did end up with Hu Tao on gob at the end of the day, which is a convenient optic if you're both mafia.
I'm good with taking this day slowly and see what everyone finds.

Ok, then I call bullshit vivax.

If you read that section of the day, then you would know that I had said that I wanted to use the full time, talk to OOO and I was directly concerned about exactly what happened, which was a quick hammer and an OOO nk without him posting up to date reads.

Why would I hard push a yeet when we had 3-4 days left and I specifically wanted to talk to OOO?

I am pretty sure the last thing I said before everyone yeeted oates was that I didn't want to yeet anyone right now.

So are you just making this shit up or what?

So you are saying that you just couldn't bake your posts out in time to be more determined? Fair enough I suppose.
Would you remind me, who did quickhammer Oats in the end? Including the E-2 vote. Because if you cared about it then, shouldn't you care about it now?

Im saying that oats got yeeted, while I was asleep, after having specifically stated I wanted to use the full time.

That is really clear in my posts, so why does that not make it in to your analysis?

[DarthPunk]

Maybe I should stick to Luca despite the Dannflor kill. It just seems like an unlikely pick for Luca if he's mafia here. Dannflor wasn't really threatening to anyone in particular. Maybe the Ninja townread gave him away?

Luca was pretty much tunneled on Oats, who flipped town. And this is probably the worst post in his ISO:

I'll let oats hammer and claim that precious towncred. He's gonna need it.

I am basically assuming Dann was a blue snipe or a respect kill from someone who is familiar with him. He is apparently a very strong player on this site.

Made me think of you tbh.

That comment by gob with his little birdies chirping about your capabilities still nags at the back of my head.
You can brag in here, not in scum chat, don't be a stranger.

Unless you're town ig

That was blatant setting me/someone from TL up when he flipped imo. Its one of the things that set my alarm bells off at the time.

[DarthPunk]

Really weird push by you Vivax TBH.

[DarthPunk]

2.13

Oatsmaster (5) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni / Naerys

[Exe-1]

Gob (2) :

Hu Tao / Darth Punk

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

Vivax

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

And the E-1 was Naerys.
I don't see it as clear cut that she's town as you do. That gob would hammer is obvious, but why don't you question who made it possible? I also put him at -1 then unvoted to get more info.

I'd even go so far as to say that this might just be one of those games where mafia just chilled while we self destructed and made ourselves look worse by being too active.

I'm still undecided, anyway. More reading, less writing.

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

[DarthPunk]

2.13

Oatsmaster (5) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni / Naerys

[Exe-1]

Gob (2) :

Hu Tao / Darth Punk

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

Vivax

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

So vivax, in your HT and DP scum team world, you think that only mafia are on gob here and only town yeeted Oats?

That seems really unlikely no?

[DarthPunk]

2.13

Oatsmaster (5) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni / Naerys

[Exe-1]

Gob (2) :

Hu Tao / Darth Punk

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

Vivax

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

And the E-1 was Naerys.
I don't see it as clear cut that she's town as you do. That gob would hammer is obvious, but why don't you question who made it possible? I also put him at -1 then unvoted to get more info.

I'd even go so far as to say that this might just be one of those games where mafia just chilled while we self destructed and made ourselves look worse by being too active.

I'm still undecided, anyway. More reading, less writing.

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

Do you mean the Roden JK dumbtell? Or another one?

Yes.

[DarthPunk]

Grack and Luca haven't had the chance to post in over 4 days. interested in their positions right now.

[DarthPunk]

2.13

Oatsmaster (5) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni / Naerys

[Exe-1]

Gob (2) :

Hu Tao / Darth Punk

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

Vivax

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

oatsmaster

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

So vivax, in your HT and DP scum team world, you think that only mafia are on gob here and only town yeeted Oats?

That seems really unlikely no?

I'd say that's unpredictable. Neither likely nor unlikely. What I do think unlikely is that me, Oats and Ninja had one scum when we were off wagon during gob vs you and gob vs Oats.

Like in that wagon analysis that I posted to say that me and Oats could never be scum together like Luca was claiming.
Luca was claiming that I didn't want either and Oats wanted gob, but somehow me and Oats were partnered.

It only doesn't make sense when I'm not town. But it made sense to me because I am.

I don't follow, can you link the posts?

[DarthPunk]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

I don't think that was alignment indicative.

Why wouldn't it be? It directly affects the strategy of the game. How could that not be alignment-indicative? There's nothing to learn from that at all?

It's easy to take a position on the game that is 'correct' as both alignments.

Ergo, it is likely HT would say something like that if she believed it to be true as either alignment.

Therfore, it's not alignment indicative.

[DarthPunk]

Yeah ok I agree with all of that.

I need to read Luca and grack again, because by looking at the wagons I think I am probably wrong on mafia HT.

[DarthPunk]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

I don't think that was alignment indicative.

Why wouldn't it be? It directly affects the strategy of the game. How could that not be alignment-indicative? There's nothing to learn from that at all?

It's easy to take a position on the game that is 'correct' as both alignments.

Ergo, it is likely HT would say something like that if she believed it to be true as either alignment.

Therfore, it's not alignment indicative.

Don't you read anything into WHY a person would say it? Like, walk me through the scum thought process here. Talk me through how a scum decides on this as the right thing to say,

assuming they are aware that they are screwing themselves over strategically by saying it.

Maybe they wanted the malaise to set in for town.

There are definitely reasons as mafia to not want any discussions and to just yeet gob and have two more days of nothing, like at this point grack and Luca have not have not posted for four days.

[DarthPunk]

Oats if you get eliminated now and flip scum you're going to get me shot.

It's really going to bolster my reputation.

That post from scum Grack would be Oscar worthy.
He did have gob and Hu Tao in his last list previously. I can see Hu Tao.

Hu Tao and ???

Is this a sort by postcount, become mafia pro game?

I have Nearys and Ninja as lock town. I think HT/Luca, HT/Grack, HT/Vivax all make sense in some way.

What about Grack / Vivax?

I think Vivax is town.

[DarthPunk]

Darth, when are you going to realize Vivax is playing you like a fiddle?

lol, how should I respond to this Ninja?

I don't know why vivax would try to scum read me if he was town. He needs me right now, cause there is some pressure ITT but he is just scumhunting, trying to figure out the game.

I mean some of his takes are like WTF. But I see natural suspicion and thinking going on even if I don;t agree with the conclusions.

[DarthPunk]

Maybe they wanted the malaise to set in for town.

Huh? I don't follow. Hu Tao is asking people to just do less, to just say less. To kick back their legs and see things unfold. How does this contribute to "malaise"?

There are definitely reasons as mafia to not want any discussions and to just yeet gob and have two more days of nothing, like at this point grack and Luca have not have not posted for four days.

But you do understand why reads lists at that point in time are helpful, right?

Yes, but there is equity on both sides of the play here for town.

I think we may need to agree to disagree on this one, I am revisiting my read on HT anyway.

[DarthPunk]

I think Vivax is town.

Okay. If I spend an inordinate amount of time showing you all of his inconsistencies, will you change your mind? Because I'm pretty content to spend the next few real-time days making that case, showing you all the weird stuff he has done. Vivax doesn't seem interested in explaining any of the stuff I've brought up to him, so I guess I'll just toss it to you instead since you think Vivax is town.

Are you looking forward to having to explain a litany of hard-to-explain shit that he has done?

Yeah you should post a case if you think there is something I missed that makes him mafia.

[DarthPunk]

Maybe they wanted the malaise to set in for town.

Huh? I don't follow. Hu Tao is asking people to just do less, to just say less. To kick back their legs and see things unfold. How does this contribute to "malaise"?

There are definitely reasons as mafia to not want any discussions and to just yeet gob and have two more days of nothing, like at this point grack and Luca have not have not posted for four days.

But you do understand why reads lists at that point in time are helpful, right?

Yes, but there is equity on both sides of the play here for town.

I think we may need to agree to disagree on this one, I am revisiting my read on HT anyway.

If you were only going to answer one of my two questions, I would have rather it been the first.

The feeling of disengagement from the game that comes from not being able to post or interact for multiple days.

[DarthPunk]

Darth, when are you going to realize Vivax is playing you like a fiddle?

lol, how should I respond to this Ninja?

I don't know why vivax would try to scum read me if he was

town

. He needs me right now, cause there is some pressure ITT but he is just scumhunting, trying to figure out the game.

I mean some of his takes are like WTF. But I see natural suspicion and thinking going on even if I don;t agree with the conclusions.

The bolded part, I'm going to assume you meant to say scum.

The answer is because he doesn't have anyone left to scum read.

He is scum, but he needs 2 scumspects. He can't choose me because Dannflor cleared me. And if we're content to think that, he can't choose Naerys either for picking up on what Dannflor said. He doesn't really want to make a case on Grack since that's probably his scum partner. And clearly he's not going to admit to being scum himself. That rules out 4 of our remaining 7, so he's only got a pool of 3 from which he has to draw 2 scum: you, HT, and Luca. You're really going to tell me you're surprised he is scum reading you when he has so few choices?

His takes are WTF because he's scum. It's as simple as that.

Yeah ok that makes sense. I think you getting cleared by Dann was a game changer tbh.

Well I could also see Luca and Grack.

I think Grack is the most likely to be mafia assuming HT is town.

I am going to go read his ISO.

[DarthPunk]

@Darth

Why does Town Vivax sheep onto Dannflor's big case on me,

so soon after he placed Dannflor in his scum pool?

And then later be all "eh, it's kinda NAI"? How did he go from "waiter, I'll have what he's having" to that?

.....
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

Dannflor's big case on superfluousninja (which totally isn't some random generated amongus name) appears attractive.
His two follow up posts have that certain satisfied nailed it vibe so he can be town.
I think that perhaps he was holding back from calling those things out initially for some reason, maybe they have some history of playing together and he wanted to give superflous some room to post before deciding to push her.

Waiter, I'll have what he's having.

His case on Ninja was impressive but big flashy posts can be scum indicative as well.

I don't think his read on dann was that strong at that part of the game though.

[DarthPunk]

The feeling of disengagement from the game that comes from not being able to post or interact for multiple days.

I don't follow, how does this general feeling stem specifically from Hu Tao asking people not to give their reads?

We don't interact and we spend another 2 days at night?

[DarthPunk]

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Do you not think Hu Tao's comment is basically a version of the above ninja?

[DarthPunk]

The feeling of disengagement from the game that comes from not being able to post or interact for multiple days.

I don't follow, how does this general feeling stem specifically from Hu Tao asking people not to give their reads?

We don't interact and we spend another 2 days at night?

You're answering the question "how does a break in the game contribute to malaise?". That's not the question I asked.

I asked you "how does HU TAO'S COMMENT contribute to malaise?"

She is advocating for a break in the game.

[DarthPunk]

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Do you not think Hu Tao's comment is basically a version of the above ninja?

No, I don't. Talking about meta game analysis is filler. Hu Tao's comment in that specific situation had a very clear purpose and intent.

Ok well in my heuristics of playing mafia, the comment lands broadly in the range of the above which means I don't think it makes HT more likely to be town than mafia in any way.

[DarthPunk]

You're answering the question "how does a break in the game contribute to malaise?". That's not the question I asked.

I asked you "how does HU TAO'S COMMENT contribute to malaise?"

She is advocating for a break in the game.

I think you're putting words in her mouth when you say that. You are phrasing this as if to say that the real message Hu Tao wanted to convey with that comment was something along the lines of "gosh I'm tired, let's take a break" or something like that.

How about this: it's stupid of the two of us to try and ascertain what Hu Tao was trying to say when Hu Tao can tell us themselves. I'll put the ball in their court and leave it at that.

@Hu Tao, was your comment about not giving reads, was that anything to do with some general sense of malaise, as Darth is arguing it is, or was it something else?

Well this is never going to work lol, aside from her saying whatever it is that will make her town in this scenario. And she would do that as both alignments.

FWIW I am not saying that comment makes her mafia, I am just saying it doesn't make her town.

it's just that I can see reasons for both Mafia!HT and Town!HT to make that post.

[DarthPunk]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

Fire support for OoO . Same way we attempted to go after Luca D1.
But also cause the way you acted surprised about Dunn getting wagoned as if he was so obviously town made me go scumscum on you.

Do link a scum game of yours please. I'm curious if you're as hyperactive in such a case.

Do you think she is not cleared?

[DarthPunk]

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Do you not think Hu Tao's comment is basically a version of the above ninja?

No, I don't. Talking about meta game analysis is filler. Hu Tao's comment in that specific situation had a very clear purpose and intent.

Ok well in my heuristics of playing mafia, the comment lands broadly in the range of the above which means I don't think it makes HT more likely to be town than mafia in any way.

Then your heuristics are wrong. There is strategy to consider and your heuristics are just tossing them out the window. It doesn't even sound to me like you even understand what they're trying to say! You made up some stuff about malaise that doesn't even seem to apply.

here is what I was saying to be very clear.

1.) HT made a comment about not posting further to give away reads.

2.) You say that comment can only come from town/makes her town

3.) I say that I don' think it is alignment indicative meaning I can see the town reason to post that and the mafia reason

4.) you say that I am wrong and to explain why mafia says that

5.) I give two reasons

a.) to post about something that is true regardless of alignment and seems sensible

b.) to shut down discussion and contribute to townie disengagement

6.) you say I am putting words in her mouth (even though you asked me specifically to state what the mafia purpose behind was)

7.) I continue to say that I think the post could come from town or scum HT.

[DarthPunk]

it's just that I can see reasons for both Mafia!HT and Town!HT to make that post.

Here's the thing: I can too, it's just that one alignment doing it is far, far stupider than the other alignment doing it.

Scum telling people to please not help us with our night kill is just straight-up stupid. It might give a person some town points to say it, but when a person exchanges a few town points for some really terrible strategy and shooting themselves in the foot,

especially right after their teammate is getting killed

, I have a disproportionately difficult time believing that's something scum would actually want to do.

I can see the logic here, which is why I think the post is NAI, rather than scummy

And you can see the logic for scum doing it too, which is why it's NAI.

If we can agree that both town and mafia can have reasons to post that, can we just agree to disagree that it means something for their Alignment or not.

I can see it means something for you, it doesn't mean the same thing for me.

It's ok for us to have different perspectives on the game.

[DarthPunk]

ninja, unless you think this is meaningful in some way for my alignment, can I suggest we just agree to disagree?

[DarthPunk]

But you are indeed assigning it to something about malaise when there's no reason to think it's about malaise.

You have thoroughly confused me by bringing the malaise thing up. I just don't get that at all, sorry.

Hu Tao, were you concerned about malaise at all?

Maybe I used the wrong word?

[DarthPunk]

If we can agree that both town and mafia can have reasons to post that, can we just agree to disagree that it means something for their Alignment or not.

No, we cannot, because you still need to give consideration for how much more stupid it would be for one side to say it than the other.

I think that is a good point, but (wifom) that might be a reason to post that as mafia.

[DarthPunk]

But you are indeed assigning it to something about malaise when there's no reason to think it's about malaise.

You have thoroughly confused me by bringing the malaise thing up. I just don't get that at all, sorry.

Hu Tao, were you concerned about malaise at all?

Maybe I used the wrong word?

Well, throw some other words out there then, but I tend to think that anything that's even malaise-tangent is still way off the mark.

Disengagment?

[DarthPunk]

If we can agree that both town and mafia can have reasons to post that, can we just agree to disagree that it means something for their Alignment or not.

No, we cannot, because you still need to give consideration for how much more stupid it would be for one side to say it than the other.

I think that is a good point, but (wifom) that might be a reason to post that as mafia.

Darth, like I already said before, I acknowledge the fact that a mafia can "score some points" by saying it. I do see what you're saying here. They score some points for saying it.

But you have to consider two things:

1) Hu Tao was not in a position where they suddenly needed to drop "please read me town" material; there was no heat on them
2) It's strategically terrible, and that is way, way more important here.

Yeah ok, I agree with that.

[DarthPunk]

I'm so lost. Aren't you from the same website as the rest of them?

Nope!

you should join us for a game sometime tho, your ability to post huge amounts would fit in well.

[DarthPunk]

if Vivax is town I think its Luca-grack btw.

[DarthPunk]

Oh I'm done with mafia after this. Good grief.

Me too, for about 3 months.

[DarthPunk]

Come on, mafia isn't so bad. Imagine having to talk to people all day. Writing is much better.

I was voting oats already before Gob's claim. Oats has always been my stronger scumread

I'll let oats hammer and claim that precious towncred. He's gonna need it.

Now, what's wrong with this?

Yeah it's a good pickup.

[DarthPunk]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

[DarthPunk]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

[DarthPunk]

Yeah they both have to shift their game view post oats flip, so good to have them commit to something first

[DarthPunk]

Part of me feels like mafia had to break up the oats-dp-ooo town circle

[DarthPunk]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

No, not really.

Luca said oats was always his bigger scum read and that he also thought gob could be mafia tracker .

Then why does he Think his strongest scum read would hammer his buddy?

Why would he not hammer his other scum read?

All of those are fair questions that vivax is pointing to.

[DarthPunk]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Can you explain why you are so certain Luca is town.

[DarthPunk]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Can you explain why you are so certain Luca is town.

I'm sorry man but at this point of the game I just don't trust you anymore. You're either scum or you're too clouded by whatever history you have with Vivax to see what I think is pretty obvious scum behavior on his part. I don't think I can work with you and I don't think it's productive for me or town at this point.

I'm going to stick with working with Hu Tao / Naerys / Luca and work from there.

I thought I was a lock town read ? If that is the case why would it not be in your best interest to explain why I am wrong and you are right?

[DarthPunk]

Ninja being cleared has a different kind of energy lol.

[DarthPunk]

Ninja, does it help you take me more seriously if I told you I am probably one of the best readers of Vivax on TL.

[DarthPunk]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

I completely disagree, because if she didn't point it out then someone would have. I noticed Dann's comment myself and suspected he might have had an inno result at the time.

It gives her a reason to be townread, which she needs at this point if she is scum.

I think naerys is town but this is 100% correct and she certainly is not confirmed town.

[DarthPunk]

I really think it's Luca and Naerys though.
Mostly from the way and timing Naerys switched from Gob to Oats. I'll have to revisit her posts at the time, still.

not grack?

[DarthPunk]

This really reminds me of the game me and Hu Tao were in that just finished. I was tunnelled on Dann being scum, and strongly believed he was partnered with Outworld. When Dann flipped green I still scumread Outworld (who actually was scum) and he was like

'why do you still scumread me when you thought I was partnered with Dann?

'. It's pretty similar to Vivax's line of argument in this game, shading me for not changing my read on him following oats' flip.

Here's the post I'm talking about: viewtopic.php?p=14068357#p14068357

Doesn't really mean anything in this game though does it.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax who is mafia if Luca is town?

[DarthPunk]

How many mislims do we have?

[DarthPunk]

is it two?

[DarthPunk]

Luca who is mafia if Vivax is town?

[DarthPunk]

Grack can you please come in and offer some more useful content than another DP tunneling Luca sesh?

That is

not

what is happening.

[DarthPunk]

How many mislims do we have?

Only me wallah

so 1?

[DarthPunk]

I am thinking its just grack.

POE, I don't really see a team that makes sense without him in it unless it's exactly luca/ht
and the wagonomics look really really damning.

1.) grack parked his vote on gob for most of day 1

Spoiler:

1.11

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

Vivax / outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

Roden

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Dannflor (1) :

DarthPunk

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

bzzzt

Flavor

Spoiler:

wow, already on our 11th votecount? times sure flies when you're having fun !

another thing that happened with each episode and that kinda gets dropped later on is that basically episode 2/3/4 were each shamelessly inspired from popular horror subgenres, 2 is litterally "The Thing", 3 is high school horror or like, whatever name that kind of thing has been given and 4 is a slasher movie, and while it's honestly a pretty interesting way to go about things ! Only problem is that 1, this wasn't at all part of what one would expect when starting to watch this series, and 2, this makes each episode feel completely disconnected from the other, sure like, the plot goes fowards, but it's riddled with timeskips, the worst one i'll detail in the next flavor bit

like seriously, in episode 4 we get teased the idea of "Zombie drones", i sure wonder where this is going ! (nowhere, this is going nowhere why did they do this just to stop midway)

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

1.13

Luca Blight (4) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk / Vivax

[Exe-3]

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Flavor filled out from VC 10 to the current one !

Flavor

Spoiler:

Ok so i'm gonna be real i didn't plan for this day to go up to page 13 so things are gonna get mostly improvised here, like, i swear i have a lot to talk about still, but i wouldn't wanna get

too

far on scheduele, so instead let's talk get more lighthearted !

the soundtrack is *really* good, like, extremely, the only thing that is sad about it is that a lot of them actually work around the dialogue and get more calm when it happens, so it's a bit tough to listen to it individually

the style is a mix of rock / dark electro and it works really well, here would be my 2 personal favorites !

1.14

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (2) :

outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

/ gob / Roden

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / Vivax

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

All the music is done by AJ Dispirito, i strongly encourage you to check out his channel where he posted every ost if you were curious about those ! It's certainely one of the only things about this series that is consistently good

anyways i'll probably throw random murder drones related images until end of day (yes picture me as in flavor throwing you printed memes, that is my artistic intent here)

1.15

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Vivax (2) :

Hu Tao / Naerys

Dunnstral (2) :

gob / Vivax

DarthPunk (1) :

Roden

Hu Tao (1) :

DarthPunk

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

Here, the 13 of you can see a crudely drawn picture of the murder drones characters "V" and "Lizzy" passionately making out

this image is humorous both by it's simplistic nature, which only serves to exacerbate the passion depicted in their show of love, and by the caption above, deepening the shock value of such an art piece by pointing it out for the viewer to reflect upon

2.) this vote on oats is really suspect, in terms of timing when the balance is Oats/gob particularly in light of the day 1 gob vote.

Spoiler:

2.10

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (2) :

outoforder / Vivax

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.11

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

Vivax

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

3.) Leading my counter wagon to gob here.

Spoiler:

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

[DarthPunk]

Day 1 distancing with gob and then never really goes there again.

[DarthPunk]

I am thinking its just grack.

POE, I don't really see a team that makes sense without him in it unless it's exactly luca/ht
and the wagonomics look really really damning.

1.) grack parked his vote on gob for most of day 1

Spoiler:

1.11

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

Vivax / outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

Roden

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Dannflor (1) :

DarthPunk

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

bzzzt

Flavor

Spoiler:

wow, already on our 11th votecount? times sure flies when you're having fun !

another thing that happened with each episode and that kinda gets dropped later on is that basically episode 2/3/4 were each shamelessly inspired from popular horror subgenres, 2 is litterally "The Thing", 3 is high school horror or like, whatever name that kind of thing has been given and 4 is a slasher movie, and while it's honestly a pretty interesting way to go about things ! Only problem is that 1, this wasn't at all part of what one would expect when starting to watch this series, and 2, this makes each episode feel completely disconnected from the other, sure like, the plot goes fowards, but it's riddled with timeskips, the worst one i'll detail in the next flavor bit

like seriously, in episode 4 we get teased the idea of "Zombie drones", i sure wonder where this is going ! (nowhere, this is going nowhere why did they do this just to stop midway)

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

1.13

Luca Blight (4) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk / Vivax

[Exe-3]

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Flavor filled out from VC 10 to the current one !

Flavor

Spoiler:

Ok so i'm gonna be real i didn't plan for this day to go up to page 13 so things are gonna get mostly improvised here, like, i swear i have a lot to talk about still, but i wouldn't wanna get

too

far on scheduele, so instead let's talk get more lighthearted !

the soundtrack is *really* good, like, extremely, the only thing that is sad about it is that a lot of them actually work around the dialogue and get more calm when it happens, so it's a bit tough to listen to it individually

the style is a mix of rock / dark electro and it works really well, here would be my 2 personal favorites !

1.14

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (2) :

outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

/ gob / Roden

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / Vivax

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

All the music is done by AJ Dispirito, i strongly encourage you to check out his channel where he posted every ost if you were curious about those ! It's certainely one of the only things about this series that is consistently good

anyways i'll probably throw random murder drones related images until end of day (yes picture me as in flavor throwing you printed memes, that is my artistic intent here)

1.15

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Vivax (2) :

Hu Tao / Naerys

Dunnstral (2) :

gob / Vivax

DarthPunk (1) :

Roden

Hu Tao (1) :

DarthPunk

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

Here, the 13 of you can see a crudely drawn picture of the murder drones characters "V" and "Lizzy" passionately making out

this image is humorous both by it's simplistic nature, which only serves to exacerbate the passion depicted in their show of love, and by the caption above, deepening the shock value of such an art piece by pointing it out for the viewer to reflect upon

2.) this vote on oats is really suspect, in terms of timing when the balance is Oats/gob particularly in light of the day 1 gob vote.

Spoiler:

2.10

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (2) :

outoforder / Vivax

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.11

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

Vivax

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

3.) Leading my counter wagon to gob here.

Spoiler:

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

no thoughts?

[DarthPunk]

BTW you can draw a sharp contrast between how Vivax handles questions and how Luca handles questions. I don't think Luca has dodged a single question that was directed at him, for this entire game (correct me if I'm wrong). But it sure seems to me like he's willing to answer everything.

I don’t really agree with this. Regardless of alignment I think Luca has definitely had moments of talking his way around questions.

This has all been covered by myself and ooo previously.

[DarthPunk]

I really don't like grack just getting on the vivax train without really saying much else after 4 days of not posting.

[DarthPunk]

I am thinking its just grack.

POE, I don't really see a team that makes sense without him in it unless it's exactly luca/ht
and the wagonomics look really really damning.

1.) grack parked his vote on gob for most of day 1

Spoiler:

1.11

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

Vivax / outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

Roden

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Dannflor (1) :

DarthPunk

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

bzzzt

Flavor

Spoiler:

wow, already on our 11th votecount? times sure flies when you're having fun !

another thing that happened with each episode and that kinda gets dropped later on is that basically episode 2/3/4 were each shamelessly inspired from popular horror subgenres, 2 is litterally "The Thing", 3 is high school horror or like, whatever name that kind of thing has been given and 4 is a slasher movie, and while it's honestly a pretty interesting way to go about things ! Only problem is that 1, this wasn't at all part of what one would expect when starting to watch this series, and 2, this makes each episode feel completely disconnected from the other, sure like, the plot goes fowards, but it's riddled with timeskips, the worst one i'll detail in the next flavor bit

like seriously, in episode 4 we get teased the idea of "Zombie drones", i sure wonder where this is going ! (nowhere, this is going nowhere why did they do this just to stop midway)

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

1.13

Luca Blight (4) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk / Vivax

[Exe-3]

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Flavor filled out from VC 10 to the current one !

Flavor

Spoiler:

Ok so i'm gonna be real i didn't plan for this day to go up to page 13 so things are gonna get mostly improvised here, like, i swear i have a lot to talk about still, but i wouldn't wanna get

too

far on scheduele, so instead let's talk get more lighthearted !

the soundtrack is *really* good, like, extremely, the only thing that is sad about it is that a lot of them actually work around the dialogue and get more calm when it happens, so it's a bit tough to listen to it individually

the style is a mix of rock / dark electro and it works really well, here would be my 2 personal favorites !

1.14

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (2) :

outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

/ gob / Roden

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / Vivax

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

All the music is done by AJ Dispirito, i strongly encourage you to check out his channel where he posted every ost if you were curious about those ! It's certainely one of the only things about this series that is consistently good

anyways i'll probably throw random murder drones related images until end of day (yes picture me as in flavor throwing you printed memes, that is my artistic intent here)

1.15

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Vivax (2) :

Hu Tao / Naerys

Dunnstral (2) :

gob / Vivax

DarthPunk (1) :

Roden

Hu Tao (1) :

DarthPunk

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

Here, the 13 of you can see a crudely drawn picture of the murder drones characters "V" and "Lizzy" passionately making out

this image is humorous both by it's simplistic nature, which only serves to exacerbate the passion depicted in their show of love, and by the caption above, deepening the shock value of such an art piece by pointing it out for the viewer to reflect upon

2.) this vote on oats is really suspect, in terms of timing when the balance is Oats/gob particularly in light of the day 1 gob vote.

Spoiler:

2.10

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (2) :

outoforder / Vivax

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.11

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

Vivax

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

3.) Leading my counter wagon to gob here.

Spoiler:

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

no thoughts?

I don't deny I was the most responsible for pushing the yeet on to Oats and have probably acted as scum's best ally throughout the course of this game.

From what I recall when I pushed on to you the main focus was on Luca rather than Gob. I'd guess Gob's wagon probably formed after the Luca wagon dissipated, which is different from the agenda that you're suggesting.

I'd like to heavily caution everybody that the scum team was very likely aware that Gob would be flipped in this game and that they would be cautious of how their posts would be viewed after his flip. I'm looking at the two wagons of Ninja/Dann/Luca/me versus Hu-Tao/nearys/DarthPunk and it's just overwhelmingly more likely that mafia was pushing Gob rather than trying to save him.

I played the last day in a very unclean way that was bound to lead me to getting in a lot of trouble. I came in with the assumption that Gob was probably mafia. Without waiting for a flip I foolishly jumped on a post Oats had made about Gob that I didn't think could come from a townie and took the lead in executing Oats. This is not how I would play as mafia. As mafia I would be want to be seen as in favor of yeeting Gob and then wait to start connecting him to other people to him after he has already flipped when my push will be viewed as logical to most of the player base.

This is what you/Naerys are doing at the moment with this vote wagon case imo.

so you think me and naerys are scum now?

[DarthPunk]

Grack, regardless of alignment you know people are always going to look at the wagons like this right?

[DarthPunk]

Can you just post your reads on the game. So that I can evaluate if how you view things makes any sense.

I legit have no idea about your worldview right now.

[DarthPunk]

Grack, regardless of alignment you know people are always going to look at the wagons like this right?

Ok - but it isn't me.

I'm basically notorious for bussing to make myself look good.

Is this really the game and Gob the player where I decide that I really need to put myself out on a limb to save my teammate?

Let's consider I get executed and flip town. Does that now mean that Luca was the player protecting Gob? Or do you think that if I'm town then mafia was ok with Gob being yeeted?

1.) I don't really have a meta read on you, I can't recall playing with you that much back in the day. I will take your word on that though.

2.) WIFOM, I don't really think you did put yourself out there to protect him though, its more you were just always on the wrong wagons while not really having a read on him. - this is scummier and more plausible imo.

3.) I know who i think is mafia if you are town, who do you think is mafia first?

[DarthPunk]

Can you just post your reads on the game. So that I can evaluate if how you view things makes any sense.

I legit have no idea about your worldview right now.

[DarthPunk]

I am thinking its just grack.

POE, I don't really see a team that makes sense without him in it unless it's exactly luca/ht
and the wagonomics look really really damning.

1.) grack parked his vote on gob for most of day 1

Spoiler:

1.11

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

Vivax / outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

Roden

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Dannflor (1) :

DarthPunk

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

bzzzt

Flavor

Spoiler:

wow, already on our 11th votecount? times sure flies when you're having fun !

another thing that happened with each episode and that kinda gets dropped later on is that basically episode 2/3/4 were each shamelessly inspired from popular horror subgenres, 2 is litterally "The Thing", 3 is high school horror or like, whatever name that kind of thing has been given and 4 is a slasher movie, and while it's honestly a pretty interesting way to go about things ! Only problem is that 1, this wasn't at all part of what one would expect when starting to watch this series, and 2, this makes each episode feel completely disconnected from the other, sure like, the plot goes fowards, but it's riddled with timeskips, the worst one i'll detail in the next flavor bit

like seriously, in episode 4 we get teased the idea of "Zombie drones", i sure wonder where this is going ! (nowhere, this is going nowhere why did they do this just to stop midway)

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

1.13

Luca Blight (4) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk / Vivax

[Exe-3]

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Flavor filled out from VC 10 to the current one !

Flavor

Spoiler:

Ok so i'm gonna be real i didn't plan for this day to go up to page 13 so things are gonna get mostly improvised here, like, i swear i have a lot to talk about still, but i wouldn't wanna get

too

far on scheduele, so instead let's talk get more lighthearted !

the soundtrack is *really* good, like, extremely, the only thing that is sad about it is that a lot of them actually work around the dialogue and get more calm when it happens, so it's a bit tough to listen to it individually

the style is a mix of rock / dark electro and it works really well, here would be my 2 personal favorites !

1.14

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (2) :

outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

/ gob / Roden

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / Vivax

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

All the music is done by AJ Dispirito, i strongly encourage you to check out his channel where he posted every ost if you were curious about those ! It's certainely one of the only things about this series that is consistently good

anyways i'll probably throw random murder drones related images until end of day (yes picture me as in flavor throwing you printed memes, that is my artistic intent here)

1.15

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Vivax (2) :

Hu Tao / Naerys

Dunnstral (2) :

gob / Vivax

DarthPunk (1) :

Roden

Hu Tao (1) :

DarthPunk

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

Here, the 13 of you can see a crudely drawn picture of the murder drones characters "V" and "Lizzy" passionately making out

this image is humorous both by it's simplistic nature, which only serves to exacerbate the passion depicted in their show of love, and by the caption above, deepening the shock value of such an art piece by pointing it out for the viewer to reflect upon

2.) this vote on oats is really suspect, in terms of timing when the balance is Oats/gob particularly in light of the day 1 gob vote.

Spoiler:

2.10

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (2) :

outoforder / Vivax

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.11

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

Vivax

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

3.) Leading my counter wagon to gob here.

Spoiler:

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

no thoughts?

I don't deny I was the most responsible for pushing the yeet on to Oats and have probably acted as scum's best ally throughout the course of this game.

From what I recall when I pushed on to you the main focus was on Luca rather than Gob. I'd guess Gob's wagon probably formed after the Luca wagon dissipated, which is different from the agenda that you're suggesting.

I'd like to heavily caution everybody that the scum team was very likely aware that Gob would be flipped in this game and that they would be cautious of how their posts would be viewed after his flip. I'm looking at the two wagons of Ninja/Dann/Luca/me versus Hu-Tao/nearys/DarthPunk and it's just overwhelmingly more likely that mafia was pushing Gob rather than trying to save him.

I played the last day in a very unclean way that was bound to lead me to getting in a lot of trouble. I came in with the assumption that Gob was probably mafia. Without waiting for a flip I foolishly jumped on a post Oats had made about Gob that I didn't think could come from a townie and took the lead in executing Oats. This is not how I would play as mafia. As mafia I would be want to be seen as in favor of yeeting Gob and then wait to start connecting him to other people to him after he has already flipped when my push will be viewed as logical to most of the player base.

This is what you/Naerys are doing at the moment with this vote wagon case imo.

what did you mean by this then?

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: Grackaroni

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

How the hell should we know?

I think Grack is right.

I think he is mafia.

[DarthPunk]

I think you are so tunnelled on vivax that you are going to throw the game away ninja tbh.

[DarthPunk]

If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was.

lol

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

lol

Okay, sign this please:

We convince everyone in the game that it's either DP and me or you and Luca and each day we yeet one from each team.
Guess who wins?

I am not sure who the last mafia is TBH. I think grack is mafia though.

[DarthPunk]

Current reads:

TOWN
Luca
Darth
Dannflor
Hu Tao

NULL
Naerys
Grack

SCUM
Gob
Vivax

I feel quite good about the town pool and the scum reads. Final scum has got to be one of Naerys / Grack. I admit that my strong scum read of Vivax has caused me to kinda use him as a focal point and see what others have said about him, how they have interacted with him.

Grack seems to have largely avoided talking to Vivax or talking about him, so although he was previously a town read for me, that's moved him into the null column for me.

But I can also easily see a world where the final scum is just Naerys.

Mostly, I think at this point I just will drop my jaw if any of my town reads are actually scum. Luca, Darth, and Dann in particular have done lots of poking and prodding and good investigative work, and Hu Tao has also, though with Hu Tao it's honestly more about how unlikely it is to me that they would pull these gambits that they have pulled if they were scum. If you fooled me, Hu Tao, welp, I tip my cap to you, I guess, and I'll keep my mind open to any interesting evidence I missed before, but I can't convince myself you're scum.

What happened to this Ninja?

[DarthPunk]

By his own admission, grack is likely to be bussing vivax right now even if Vivax is mafia.

To me you are so fixated on your vivax read that you just think anyone who disagrees with you is mafia. But you are honestly more likely to get pocketed right now by mafia than anything else, particularly as you have shown throughout the game that you have a tendency to scum read people that don't agree with your reads.

I know this is WIFOM but it is -also- why I am not mafia, if I was mafia I would have just pocketed you and moved along with your vivax yeet.

But I am town and I am also good at reading vivax, so you are on the wrong track here.

You are confirmed town, so you are probably just going to do what you are going to do, but at least I will be able to point to this later and you will see where the game went off the rails.

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

lol

Okay, sign this please:

We convince everyone in the game that it's either DP and me or you and Luca and each day we yeet one from each team.
Guess who wins?

Which of you and DP do we yeet first in this scenario?

ok lost cause lol.

[DarthPunk]

Grack stop avoiding talking about what you meant about naerys you threw shit at her and then won’t talk about it anymore.

[DarthPunk]

And DP, if town loses, it won't be because I game threw, it will be because Vivax won't answer my fucking questions.

You just need to think about alternatives at this point.
Luca is doing it too.

[DarthPunk]

Grack do you have a claim?

[DarthPunk]

Also, we are not "all wrong", but I admit I am concerned when every single person is on a player's case. You can't rule out that all the townies are wrong and the scum are just like "lol sure man, all aboard"

We all think he is mafia and yet, he lives.

[DarthPunk]

Hu Tao what do you think about Luca Brasi ?

Tasmanian band

[DarthPunk]

Ok grack is obv mafia lol

[DarthPunk]

UNVOTE: grackaroni


I am too busy to keep up. Happy to sort out the fallout from whatever just happened later

[DarthPunk]

Grack why is vivax mafia?

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: vivax

E-1

Can we wait a bit, I have a lot to unpack.

I want to know why grack scum reads vivax here.

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: Naerys

Shouldn‘t hurt.

I‘ll be heading out. Free time is over and now is my time to produce capital gains for glorious Arstotzka.

You´re just grasping at straws. The fact that you decided to try to yeet me, has basically confirmed you are a scum.
VOTE: Vivax

VOTE: Grackaroni

What is this about vivax?

[DarthPunk]

Grack, DP.

We will discuss this in private post game but if I have the correct picture this game is unwinnable.

VOTE: Naerys

I think it‘s Hu Tao and Naerys though. I think only mafia would exploit the presence of Ninja and her issues this shamelessly.

and then this?

What was that grack vote in response to being voted by nearys about?

[DarthPunk]

Can you answer my questions please vivax.

I feel like the game is about to be lost and I am trying hard to figure shit out right now, but I can only do that if people answer my questions.

[DarthPunk]

Specifically why all the flip flopping reads, and why the unvote on naerys when she scum reads you, the grack vote, and then talking to grack like he is town to then vote him again when I ask you about it?

[DarthPunk]

Specifically why all the flip flopping reads, and why the unvote on naerys when she scum reads you, the grack vote, and then talking to grack like he is town to then vote him again when I ask you about it?

Naerys hasn‘t created a fitting narrative yet where me and Grack are both scum.

She deliberately abandoned the narrative where Luca was mafia if Oats is town.

But I think she‘s also trying to paint herself as more scummy on purpose.

The amount of backlash for scumreading Luca is incredible, and not credible as the word implies. It‘s like he has a bunch of players always ready to get you off track when you ping him.

This doesn;t really make sense.

Why did you vote grack when she voted for you? why did you talk to grack like he was town, and then vote for him again?

[DarthPunk]

The flip flopping should elicit a gotcha moment or at least questioning, which we didn‘t see from Naerys.

Grack if town, should at least be able to cooperate with me here in voting Naerys, but he just remains silent.

If Grack and me are both town, we lose.

I don't want to say too much about grack for now until he answers my question.

[DarthPunk]

Grack can you can explain why you think vivax is scum and when you changed your mind about him cause early on you hard town read him for I think the correct reasons.

Now you think he is mafia and I don’t really see the progression.

[DarthPunk]

Grack how did you realise I was town?

[DarthPunk]

That’s fine I want to take time to figure this lynch out.

Grack you look 100 percent the worst by association with gob and hypothetically you are town, so in that case why would gob spew be interesting to you at all, as you know that it’s fallible.

[DarthPunk]

Sorry for the slip up mods.

[DarthPunk]

That’s fine I want to take time to figure this lynch out.

Grack you look 100 percent the worst by association with gob and hypothetically you are town, so in that case why would gob spew be interesting to you at all, as you know that it’s fallible.

I don't think it's fallible.

I think people's ability to read it is fallible.

I think it's obvious that I wouldn't play the way that I have if I was partnered with Gob, but that's for you guys to discover.

Honestly I can’t recall if we have played together before, so I have no meta on you really at all.

[DarthPunk]

I have Nearys and Ninja as lock town. I think HT/Luca, HT/Grack, HT/Vivax all make sense in some way.

Why is Naerys a "lock town" for you?

I’ve explained this multiple times. It would be great if you could read the thread properly, particularly when you have such strong opinions on things.

[DarthPunk]

Anyway i have been reading and thinking about the game since yesterday.

I am pretty sure grack is mafia.

[DarthPunk]

I’ll make a big post now.

[DarthPunk]

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

If this is all it is, I don't think that's a convincing case. Do any of us think she could fake not knowing about the night kill? Well how should any of us know? I don't know Naerys, I don't know her capabilities. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to me to type some keystrokes that give an impression of cluelessness.

If you want me to continue townreading you, I'd advise you to stop with the intimidation tactics.

You are literally trying to intimidate me now with this statement.

Honestly your approach to basically everything since you were cleared has been overly aggressive, off-putting and generally wrong. Right now I am pretty sure you are hard defending scum grack and trying to misyeet vivax.

So I don't really care if you town read me or not, I think you are cleared as town but wholly on the wrong track and so I would appreciate it if you just let me solve the game, because that is all I care about right now.

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

Why do you keep asking things like this? How the hell should we know what anyone in this game is capable of?

Grack usually hosts the games we play, and he should know my meta. It wasn't a statement directed at you or anyone else, it was a question to attempt to understand gracks thinking.

[DarthPunk]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

Why do you keep asking things like this? How the hell should we know what anyone in this game is capable of?

Grack usually hosts the games we play, and he should know my meta. It wasn't a statement directed at you or anyone else, it was a question to attempt to understand gracks thinking.

If he knows your meta, and you know he knows your meta, what's stopping you from playing counter to your meta in order to fool people?

Because you would only do that as mafia, so then you would get limmed. You realise grack had similar arguments about he is prone to bussing and therefore would not be defending gob.

Why are you not challenging him on those arguments.

[DarthPunk]

I think HT is mafia with grack that would be my best guess at a team right now.

[DarthPunk]

I think HT is mafia with grack that would be my best guess at a team right now.

Do you seriously still scumread me based off that thing day 1 and me trying to bait scum day 2?

It's mostly POE, I think Nearys is town, Ninja is town, I think Luca/grack can't be scum together, Vivax /grack doesn't really make sense either.

And the stuff that vivax pointed out with you seemingly calling grack and vivax both scum but not really being that keen to yeet grack is true.

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: grack

Fine ill go grack. Like I said it doesn't matter. Grack/luca/vivax solves the game imo

This looks like a bus to me.

[DarthPunk]

I realized DP was town and Ninja has been checked.

When and how did you realize this? Especially after you voted for DP? I don't see an explanation for this.

He explained this earlier.

[DarthPunk]

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

If this is all it is, I don't think that's a convincing case. Do any of us think she could fake not knowing about the night kill? Well how should any of us know? I don't know Naerys, I don't know her capabilities. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to me to type some keystrokes that give an impression of cluelessness.

If you want me to continue townreading you, I'd advise you to stop with the intimidation tactics.

You are literally trying to intimidate me now with this statement.

Honestly your approach to basically everything since you were cleared has been overly aggressive, off-putting and generally wrong. Right now I am pretty sure you are hard defending scum grack and trying to misyeet vivax.

So I don't really care if you town read me or not, I think you are cleared as town but wholly on the wrong track and so I would appreciate it if you just let me solve the game, because that is all I care about right now.

What you are doing is far shittier, though. Your version of this is to get me to shut up. My version is to get you to talk. I'm telling you I think what you're doing is scummy behavior, and I don't tell you that to get you to stop talking, I tell you that to gauge your response. And I fully expect a response too.

But if you portray me as someone with "strong opinions" and shame me for "not reading the thread properly", I don't see how that does anything other than trying to make me feel small, insignificant, worthless.

It's just a shitty thing to say to someone. We all have lives and responsibilities, there's a lot of stuff in this thread, and I'm working on something right now where an answer to that question helps me along. I don't have time to comb through everything here when I could get what I need just by asking. You should want me involved and engaged. Hell, maybe your thoughts have changed, seeing as how you said it a while ago, and I wanted your current thoughts. It's really not so outrageous to ask.

I was not trying to be shitty or get you to shut up, I am just sick of having to answer the same things over and over, which are clearly and readily available in my ISO.

If you didn't like my reason's for town reading Naery's perhaps instead of using quotation marks about my reads you could have asked a probing question that also offers something of substance like: 'DP do you still think naerys is town because of the JK slip? because I am not so sure that this is a good enough reason to town read her, based on XYZ'

I find it off-putting that you infer slights in many posts from others, but at the same time engage in the very behaviour that you accuse those same people of doing.

Like the example above, where i -literally- am not trying to intimidate you, I am just asking you to read the thread before asking questions.

And then you accuse me of intimidating you, by -literally- trying to threaten me with in game consequences for it.

I am just sick of it, I only want to talk about the game. I care about you being respected as a Human, but I am not interested in projections of slight's, insults or behaviour standards that you perceive are not being met, when literally no-one has crossed the line.

Just FYI - you are saying what I am doing is shitty because I asked you to read the thread, while you have literally: sworn about my posting, laughed about me being toxic and threatened me with a scum read while saying I was trying to intimidate you.

Don't thrown stones in glass houses.

[DarthPunk]

Basically I think grack is mafia because of his really odd read progression on gob from the start of the game.

He puts gob as top town, when there is no reason to do so, instead of trying to determine gobs alignment he is just written off as town.

Finished reading through the thread.

My top town are Dannfloor/gob/Hu Tao.

Dannfloor for leading the pushes in thread. I don't feel either of them have been scum-motivated.

The way Gob posts I just don't see coming from scum.

Hu-Tao - I liked post #576 the most, but he just seems very care free while still contributing.

I don't like the way OutofOrder has been posting so far. I think as town he is able to consistently assist the town by narrowing and eliminating people from the lynch pool, while as scum he is able to build up a large post count by getting into arguments that lead nowhere.

I'd probably favor lynching a lurker at this point since there are some people that are giving absolutely nothing, but if not a lurker then I would lynch Ninja/Roden.

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know.

I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

Doubles down on town! Gob, while kind of spewing gob as mafia here.

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

So how do we test his thinking at all? Can he just do whatever and face no consequences for it?

Eh actually you're probably right. He should be pressured a lot more. These posts read like one of my attempts at bussing a teammate from 12 years ago. The trust me guys, I know dann just reads so heavily as "I'm on a team with dann and I will be vindicated."

Dannfloor is the mafia btw. I'm pretty sure. I'm not really feeling up to casing him rn.... because idk, i started doordashing to make extra money tbh. Taking up my time and enrgy.

I'm going to go over everything one more time before EoD though.

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

So why did I have to push you into that position grack? cause it has been clear to me that I have been right this whole time.

One of my first posts was that he wouldn't be mafia from his thread entrance. I haven't been paying close attention to him and you directed my attention towards him.

Once I apply pressure on him for his gob town!read (at the time made no sense) he says he wasn;t paying much attention to gob, and that he only paid attention to him after I (correctly) started pressuring gob.

But if that was the case his putting gob as TOP THREE TOWN does not make sense, that is not what you do to someone you are not paying attention too.

If you are not paying attention you don't then double down on the read.

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

So how do we test his thinking at all? Can he just do whatever and face no consequences for it?

Eh actually you're probably right. He should be pressured a lot more. These posts read like one of my attempts at bussing a teammate from 12 years ago. The trust me guys, I know dann just reads so heavily as "I'm on a team with dann and I will be vindicated."

Dannfloor is the mafia btw. I'm pretty sure. I'm not really feeling up to casing him rn.... because idk, i started doordashing to make extra money tbh. Taking up my time and enrgy.

I'm going to go over everything one more time before EoD though.

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

So why did I have to push you into that position grack? cause it has been clear to me that I have been right this whole time.

One of my first posts was that he wouldn't be mafia from his thread entrance. I haven't been paying close attention to him and you directed my attention towards him.

I know you said that, but honestly almost every post he makes is jarring in how ??? it is.

I wrote him off too quickly because his style is so different.

I'm on board with VOTE: gob.

If he knows Dann as well as he says he does then he should be able to remember why he was scum reading him.

Grack then posts this vote on gob after saying he should be pressured a lot more, but then ceases to pressure gob or even mention gob at all until

VOTE: Hu Tao

Does Gob explain the reasoning behind his posts in other games?

I saw people saying that he's obvious when he plays scum. I was hoping to at least get some response from him but he just posted 'Im mafia with x, y, and z instead!

He votes HT, and kind of explains away the gob pressure again, except if he was hoping for a response, he basically did nothing after dropping his gob vote, no pressure , no interaction, no follow up.

All of this is disingenuous to me.

I also think calling vivax scum is suspect as anything because this:

I think Vivax is 0% mafia. I think he has some awareness of how to play to people's expectations, but after watching him in mafia chat several times as a host he's often just posting random things and giggling that he's still getting away with it. I've never seen him genuinely invested in the game as mafia in the way that he has been in this game. I'd be really shocked if he was mafia.

Is a 100% correct reason to town read vivax this game. That's why I wanted to know how he could scum read vivax all of a sudden this phase.

It's not well considered. The main reason was from my interaction with him yesterday and seeing a lot of his name in Gob and now also Luca's ISO. (And I really wouldn't discount the possibility that Gob posted his real scum team.)

Is so much worse of a reason to scum read vivax when grack had already given the correct reasons to town read vivax.

I don't believe grack actually thought vivax was mafia, I think Grack was trying to deflect from his own yeet by being audacious and engaging in WIFOM.

There is also this post from OOO

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

I think OOO caught some early red flags on grack's approach to the game, and OOO has by far played the most games with grack out of the TL players here.

Grack has spent most of this game pushing townies and not pusing mafia.

Grack is mafia.

VOTE: Grackaroni

[DarthPunk]

This is EXE- 1 btw.

[DarthPunk]

You're right that I've been unfair to people and I apologize. It won't happen again.

No need to apologise. I don't want you to feel bad about it or anything, I just want to focus on and play the game.

[DarthPunk]

is that the hammer?

I agree that this game needs more gifs Ninja.

[DarthPunk]

are we allowed to post after the hammer or not?

[DarthPunk]

I’m around. Please don’t rush a vote on anyone.

Let’s just talk things out for a bit.

I’m vt.

[DarthPunk]

I guess one of naerys and vivax have to be mafia, which is kind of annoying after I hard defend them last phase.

[DarthPunk]

Unless the scum team is exactly Luca/ht.

[DarthPunk]

So the possible pairings are vivax/hu
Vivax/luca
Luca/hu
Unless DP is scum and i am getting badly played

So you think Luca vivax can be mafia together. It seems really implausible

[DarthPunk]

I’m around now for a couple of hours.

I’ve been following the thread but I want to re read a bit and catch up properly.

ATM I Think HT+Luca is the most likely.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax you have called basically everyone mafia again.

Can you give me a better sense of what you are thinking?

[DarthPunk]

And who do you think are the 2 scum then?

Two of you/Vivax/Naerys. Right now I would guess you and Naerys.

Of course, it could be Darth, but if so then gg because there's no turning that around at this stage.

This is literally everyone in the game.

Who are your top 2? No hedging.

[DarthPunk]

From my perspective, I feel I have to bet the game on Darth being town or there is no chance of winning anyway in this gamestate.

I'm suspicious of Hu Tao for the

'scum is definitely in Grack/Vivax/Luca'

, even more so now she is doubling-down following grack's flip, so will probably end up voting her today unless she can justify that statement.

I don't know why everyone seems to assume Naerys is town.

I explained yesterday. I think this is Naerys town game. And dp and gob are likely not aligned. Why do you think Naerys is scum?

I see nothing to suggest Naerys isn't scum. Why are you so sure she is town? And please don't say 'dumbtell'.

From my perspective at least you or her has to be scum.

I've played with Naerys quite a bit. And when she makes sense she is town.

Also the way you're phrasing this, you're saying me or Naerys which means you think vivax is scum. Yet you said you'd vote me

What has Nerys said specifically that makes you think she is town?

I'm suspicious that you're not even considering you might be wrong when we're in melo. I TR Darth but would be considering him, if not for the gamestate being as it is.

Have to do some work now.

What do you mean by game state?

[DarthPunk]

Paranoia world: DP and Luca
Nonparanoia world: Naerys & Hu Tao

This is also literally everyone that is not you.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax why did you backflip on wanting to yeet me?

[DarthPunk]

I have reasons to town read naerys and vivax.

Although it’s possible vivax is duping me so I want to interact a bit more with him.

[DarthPunk]

I’m around tomorrow a lot while I am at work to address all this stuff. We have plenty of time and I plan on making use of it.

[DarthPunk]

Luca is basically confirmed mafia at this point when he started the day with saying I’m lock town or whatever and then as soon as he saw that I was going to push him posting walls and flipping his read.

He has had a lot of time to develop his read on me, which was town, and then he responds again to being called scum with calling the person pushing him as scum.

I realise this is going to shit up the thread again but I can’t let him just waffle his way out. Again.

Anyway talk more tomorrow.

[DarthPunk]

Luca basically has to discredit all wagon arguments because he looks so bad on all of them.

[DarthPunk]

I literally said I wanted more time and was busy, you trying to do something before I get a chance to lay o it arguments against me. Basically claiming scum here.

[DarthPunk]

It’s just really scummy to do it when you know I said I was busy. I guess you aren’t even trying to appear reasonable anymore so whatever.

I’ll be around tomorrow.

[DarthPunk]

Just got up, I’ll be at work in an hour and then I’ll post my thoughts .

[DarthPunk]

I'm just posting this so Naerys reads it tbh. Please reread D2 and tell me that the reads on each other from DP and Luca weren't bonkers.

Not true.
I had a legit case on why Luca was mafia.

I basically got pushed off of it by ooo saying I was wrong.

Turns out he was wrong and now here we are.

[DarthPunk]

I'm just posting this so Naerys reads it tbh. Please reread D2 and tell me that the reads on each other from DP and Luca weren't bonkers.

Not true.
I had a legit case on why Luca was mafia.

I basically got pushed off of it by ooo saying I was wrong.

Turns out he was wrong and now here we are.

Whatever dude.
If Naerys keeps tunneling me you win anyway.

This town yeeted Oats cause he found mafia so it makes perfect sense.

Be right, you die.

No don't whatever me.

I am here now to talk to you and try figure shit out.

Vivax, I am not mafia, so are you pushing me for sport here?

[DarthPunk]

I am not sure what are you trying to say? Do you mean that DP and Luca arent scum or what?

No I mean they never had any real intention of killing each other when a lot suggests otherwise from D2.

As soon as Hu Tao faked a result, DP voted him until she unfaked it. But DP also wrote a case on him so the result shouldn‘t have mattered.

I thought she scum claimed so of course it mattered.

[DarthPunk]

I'm just posting this so Naerys reads it tbh. Please reread D2 and tell me that the reads on each other from DP and Luca weren't bonkers.

Not true.
I had a legit case on why Luca was mafia.

I basically got pushed off of it by ooo saying I was wrong.

Turns out he was wrong and now here we are.

Whatever dude.
If Naerys keeps tunneling me you win anyway.

This town yeeted Oats cause he found mafia so it makes perfect sense.

Be right, you die.

No don't whatever me.

I am here now to talk to you and try figure shit out.

Vivax, I am not mafia, so are you pushing me for sport here?

If you read my posts you‘d know it wouldn’t matter what read I have on you.

I said I‘d vote Luca even if you two were partnered.

Yeah I know you said that, which kind of bothered me for about 15 minutes while I was thinking it over in the shower this morning.

Basically I was wondering if you and Luca could be partnered here, because it would make the most sense if you are town agree I am mafia to just yeet me as you both scum read me.

But if you are both mafia you cannot do that. So I thought it was a huge red flag.

But then I realised if you are scum reading each other and not certain I was mafia, I could be quick hammered and the game would be over then obviously.

[DarthPunk]

It‘s easier to become fluent in swahili than convince anyone on this site why Luca is mafia

I think Luca is mafia, I am writing a big post now. Can you just pretend you think I am town for a bit.

We both think Luca is mafia, so who is his partner? Cause that is the hard part of this IMO.

[DarthPunk]

The only thing that matters is your read on Luca and whether you are able to convince Naerys.

Town only survives with three townies on the right person.

Mafia doesn‘t even have to do much except not vote, not say too much and wait for the right opportunity.

Oh I guess you think it is naerys that is town so HT is mafia if not me?

I think that is where I am landing too right now but I am way less confident on people who are not Luca.

[DarthPunk]

It‘s easier to become fluent in swahili than convince anyone on this site why Luca is mafia

I think Luca is mafia, I am writing a big post now. Can you just pretend you think I am town for a bit.

We both think Luca is mafia, so who is his partner? Cause that is the hard part of this IMO.

If it‘s not you with him I think Naerys.
Maybe she‘s just pretending not to understand anything I say.

Why naerys over ht?

[DarthPunk]

If me and vivax are scum then the only way to win from here is to buddy Darth and get him to vote someone like Hu Tao, who he also scumreads.

And what do you think about Hu Tao?

I think either you or Hu Tao are scum with Darth. Based on interactions I would say that you seem more likely at the moment unless Hu Tao and Darth have done some thorough distancing.

Thats the problem i have, looking at the reads i dont see Hu being aligned with anyone.

Who can I be aligned with then?

[DarthPunk]

I have reasons to town read naerys and vivax.

Although it’s possible vivax is duping me so I want to interact a bit more with him.

We're on Day 5, there are reasons to townread everyone in the game.

What makes you so convinced that Naerys is town? And don't say '

dumbtell'

.

Just wanted to address this while I write my big post. This is really scummy, because actually there are no reasons to think Luca is town, he is just saying something arbitary here to muddy the waters and to make me doubt my reads.

We should at this part of the game be trusting our town reads and trying to POE solve the game, the fact that he desperate here to dismiss my read on naerys is damnnign.

I think the dumbtell is a legit reason to read nareys as town. Further unless you think exactly HT and Nearys are mafia together, (which I don't and neither does luca) then HT's meta read on Naerys is likely her real opinion regardless of HT's alignment.

So that is two good reasons to think she is town.

I think Luca spews Nearys town here a bit, because he is trying to delegitimize my town read of naerys.

But he is flailing all over the place right now, cause he knows he is caught, so associations at this point are less meaningful.

[DarthPunk]

inflexible.

i am literally doing wild mental gymnastics today and thinking about every possibility

Naerys can you outline your read progression on Luca, cause early on you had him town, so what changed?

[DarthPunk]

Darth i will answer tmorrow, i am tired and i need to sleep

Fair enough.

[DarthPunk]

Basically my thoughts on the game are as follows.

1.) Luca is mafia. there are many reasons I believe he is mafia.

I think my case on him from early in the game still stands, he basically spent the entire game scum reading people who are suspicious of him and town reading those who are not.

Case in point his read on me this game which went from Town-> mafia when I call him out, back to Town when I back off and then Mafia again when I call him out again.

He has done the same thing with vivax and oats. When he engages in discussions or arguments he twists the truth:

Spoiler:

Ugh, its impossible to engage with you when you literally twist and lie about everything.

Here is the progression and I know you are going to have some lies about why this is not really the truth, but for everyone else THIS IS REALLY THE TRUTH.

1.) you hard agree with ninja's post. and say 'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely' with the exception implied being the oats read

499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.

The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.

Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.

2.)Outoforder and I Discuss concerns with the basic failures of logically consistency in that exact post and raise the issue that it 'reflects your thoughts on the game almost entirely' because you have failed to identify and consider the issues in Ninja's post

- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

Well I liked that ninja said she was trying to do something with the activity stuff in that post. I do have a soft spot for big effort posts though.

Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?

I liked the last post Luca made about ninja's post, other than that I don't have much thought. Vivax has been making posts that seem weird to me but I wrote it off as playstyle differences.

And sure I don't have to agree with everything someone says to think they are town. I often don't.

Of course you dont, i wouldnt hold that against you.

But like, we've expressed some concerns in Ninja's post (with DP). Like... if Ninja posts like that (makes big posts with a lot of effort) as town, i wouldnt think she would act differently as mafia. For the posters who make wall of texts, it's often small nuances that give them out -- as you can look reasonable by posting 90% truth about other players as long as your vote ends up on someone who isnt mafia.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I find these to be those kind of small nuances that

could make her mafia

. I am not sure of it, but it's definitely something to look into imo.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

3.) Dunn agrees with the good point because it was.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I didn't have a problem with Ninja's read on Dann. They talk about how they missed the post and then talked about their reads after.
Looking back at 499 they do seem to point to a Luca post they liked and explain their read.
And I don't see where they talk about confirmation bias regarding you.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

4.) Much later Luca uses out of context snips of quotes and completely fabricates the historical narrative when ostensibly he is supposed to be 'sorting' implying an open mind.

I just Iso'd Naerys and got absolutely nothing from it.

I'm looking through Dunn's posts now (I'm not finished yet), and I really don't feel great about how he began the game, talking mainly about theory and hardly engaging with anything else. I also didn't like this:

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

Because it wasn't a good point, in fact outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read, and I would expect Dunn, as careful as he has been in this game, to pick up on that if he was genuinely trying to read me in this situation. Especially when Dunn mentioned/implied he only comments on posts he finds worthy. He also does nothing with this - it leads nowhere, and is never mentioned or referenced again, so he couldn't have believed it was that good a point.

It was a good point though.

It can't be a good point when it's provably wrong.

5. Luca is mafia

Here is DP's case on you Luca.
In this case DP says:
- you hard agree with ninja's post. and say

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

with the exception implied being the oats read
- multiple people discuss the points Ninja made in her post, and point out there are points why the post shouldn't be agreed with, namely me, DP, Dunnstral at least
- we discuss on how it could make you mafia (before DP's case), that you

agree with the post almost entirely

, why that is possibly a scummy thing to do, because any townie should not do that
- you counter that point with

[...]"outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

Now this is not the point we were discussing. We were discussing entirely other parts of that post. I mean like

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

cannot really be considered ONLY as

"i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

. It's just simply an "over-townread" on Ninja regarding the situation without better explanation on this. It is true that you are not explicitly "lying", but you have to understand if you say

'reflects my thoughts on the game

almost entirely

'

, you just cannot brush off the other discrepancies of the post just because you had one different read. Which i can fairly see DP thinks you are doing.

You did the similar thing a few times before also.
You literally said:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

A bit after that you even enforce the statement with this:

It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves.

Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this.

Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.

And after this you are questioning Oats on his read or non-read on gob.

What am i supposed to think??? You give every single piece of clue that you're scumreading both Roden and Oats, just to later on say that you didn't do so and you have never said so.
Again, yeah you are not explicitly lying, but whatever you posted in the thread between there that sure seems like that's the thought you had in your head.

Same thing again with your read on Roden as full. You call him out on being defensive, aggressive and potentially power wolfing (i dont care who said that first, you basically did call him out on that). When i question you on "how does being defensive or aggressive make anyone mafia?", you say you never said those things, it was Roden who brought it up. It's very very twisted how you build your posts just to backtrack on them -- again, by not lying, but you give the impression you DEFINITELY think something, and when it's called out you have a way to back off of it. Like here:

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early,

and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something?

And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

You seem to massively contradict yourself from one sentence to another, unless I just don't understand what you're saying here.

I also don't have a strong SR on Oats and never have - just his interaction with Roden seemed off to me. I do, however, read Roden as scum independently.

You seem to be making out like I'm throwing all my chips on Oats and Roden being partners, which isn't the case at all. You're overblowing everything I've said.

Spoiler:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think

it's possible

you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and

because of that only

, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.

I haven't brushed anything away - I literally just said i understood where you were going from initially, which is why I made an effort to present my reads in a more transparent way.

Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?

If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it

, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?

I've answered that already, and once again just above.

- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless

you actually think you are not solving the game

, which you shouldn't as town)

The problem is that you're not reading properly.

I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially.

What I said was that most of the things Roden accused oat of, including defensiveness, had also been displayed by Roden himself.

Nowhere have I ever said that being defensive automatically equals scum, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure why this even needs to be explained, as it should be obvious?

Like in that post you literally contradicted yourself in one sentence.

Basically, at best you are not doing very good job at being clear in what you think and how it reflects into the thread. When you are called out for your literal words you have written in this game, you say they meant something else. That's a big problem to me.

All of this still applies to Luca's play and means that he has not been accountable for any of his slip ups this game.

Further Luca has engaged in really shitty appeals to emotion and wifom since kind of coasting along post Oats yeet.

For example:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

Luca is basically saying in this post 'I am town and I am willing to throw the game if you guys scum read me' it's an attempt to paly on fear of townies and also -scum can afford to engage in gambits like this and town cannot-

I’m around now for a couple of hours.

I’ve been following the thread but I want to re read a bit and catch up properly.

ATM I Think HT+Luca is the most likely.

As I said to Vivax earlier, if I'm scum with Hu Tao why wouldn't I have voted to eliminate Vivax yesterday, when you strongly scumread Grack and townread Vivax, while Ninja only wanted Vivax dead, and Ninja was always going to be dead and you alive coming into D5?

In which case I've set myself up to fail, as you and Vivax are always going to vote me today following Grack's flip, and Ninja, who was my only supporter, is dead.

WIFOM

but the worst thing of all is his interactions this phase.

Its kind of tough to outline so i am about to quote a bunch of posts, but basically, Luca has been trying to follow the reads of anyone he happens to be interacting with (except me, probably cause I was not in the thread that much at start of day) and kind of shifts his reads to get on a common ground with them. Then scum reads people who call him mafia.

but the most egregious sin of all is this:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

I said I was willing to consider but you'd need to

sell me why vivax/naerys makes sense

I don't see any reason it doesn't make sense?

I'm certainly not putting all my eggs in the vivax/naerys basket. It wouldn't surprise me right now if Darth/Naerys was the scum team.

9 MINUTES LATER!!!!!

And who do you think are the 2 scum then?

Two of you/Vivax/Naerys. Right now I would guess you and Naerys.

Of course, it could be Darth, but if so then gg because there's no turning that around at this stage.

This is literally everyone in the game.

Who are your top 2? No hedging.

Ok, right now my money would be on you and Naerys being the scum team.

55 minutes later after saying that THERE IS NO REASON VIVAX/NEARYS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS A SCUM TEAM. Vivax is now his strongest town read.

Ironically vivax has become my strongest townread,

and Darth is the most likely to be scum.

I feel as though Hu Tao and Naerys is a case of one pocketing the other, a bit like the Darth/oats dynamic earlier in the game.

Darth/Naerys is still my pick, I'll have a look through at the Darth/Hu Tao interactions.

This is just mafia play, he is flailing around throwing whatever on the wall he can hope to stick to anyone at all.

He is not being cautious about a mislim here, which will end the game, He is spreading chaos, certainly distancing from his partner and trying desperately to get a townie limmed over himself.

Then his attempt to quick lim me, while thread sentiment was poor for me and I had openly stated I was going to be away.

I’m around tomorrow a lot while I am at work to address all this stuff. We have plenty of time and I plan on making use of it.

F*ck it, let's go.

VOTE: Darth Punk

I realise this is an uphill battle against someone who everyone reads as town, but in that case then the game is lost anyway.

Nothing about Darth's reaction makes me think he could be town. As town he would see that I'm trying to solve the game, even if I suspect him, rather than say it makes me confirmed scum, because what is my motivation here as scum? As scum I don't go head to head with the consencus town read, nor against half of the tl crew like I did on D1 while (rightly) defending my townreads.

Then he does this. I cannot see how this comes from anything other than mafia.

Other points to consider,

He does this weird shit where he calls Vivax/Naerys the scum team as seen above, then he sheeps vivax on me, sheeps naerys and vivax and susses HT, then while talking with HT says

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

This guy is all over the fucking place. He is mafia because he doesn't care about anything except his own survival and his reads are basically in place to appease whoever he happens to be interacting with at the time.

This is on top of all the reasons he was mafia before, the reasons myself, OOO and oats outlined all game.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[DarthPunk]

I'm voting Luca because I am certain he is mafia.

If you are town I encourage you to vote with me.

[DarthPunk]

Its really annoying that everyone is not around when i am TBH.

[DarthPunk]

Its really annoying that everyone is not around when i am TBH.

You live on a remote part of the planet where you wage war on emus what did you expect.

it's true.

Lets talk about my case on Luca.

also: do you think Naerys posts this:

luca blight feels towny

About her partner as their second post of the game?

[DarthPunk]

Dunno, but I was thinking the same at the time, he felt like the sanest in early game.

You think HT is the other one ?

I actually don't know anymore. I can see a world in which the last mafia is any of you three, I am reading Iso's right now to try and figure it out.

Part of me just wants to stick with my initial reads cause it simplifies the game, in that case HT is mafia for the slips early on.

[DarthPunk]

I still think this series of posts is incredibly hard to fake as mafia.

Hmm i am kinda thinking about the nightkills. Either scum got really lucky or there is person with good analytical mind
makes me kinda sus Dann tbh

....

Uh. You know roden claimed jk right

no, i must have missed that
i dont keep up with that mass of posts you people are producing

....

Uh. You know roden claimed jk right

no, i must have missed that
i dont keep up with that mass of posts you people are producing

This information is in the very first post.

what?

You say you're thinking about the night kills, yes? So you're thinking about this after we would have gotten our chance to see Roden's alignment, not to mention that Roden had claimed being jailkeeper during day 1 also. But if you were really interested in putting some thought into the nightkills and wondering how and why they happened like they did, why wouldn't one of the very first things you do, if not THE first thing, be to check the role of the person who died?

You are confusing me. I knew that Roden flipped jk i just didnt know he claimed it.

You say you're thinking about the night kills, yes? So you're thinking about this after we would have gotten our chance to see Roden's alignment, not to mention that Roden had claimed being jailkeeper during day 1 also. But if you were really interested in putting some thought into the nightkills and wondering how and why they happened like they did, why wouldn't one of the very first things you do, if not THE first thing, be to check the role of the person who died?

You are confusing me. I knew that Roden flipped jk i just didnt know he claimed it.

I see, I was maybe misunderstanding things. So when you're looking into how scum "got lucky", you're wondering how they got lucky killing the JAILKEEPER specifically. I thought you might have meant that they got lucky getting a kill, period.

i meant that they were either lucky or very observant killing cop AND jk

wait i got mixed up games

rofl

[DarthPunk]

For someone that basically everyone called mafia, Luca is incredibly hard to yeet this game.

[DarthPunk]

Look at how little interest there is in going after Gob, or Naerys, or Grack. If I'm right and that really is the scum team, then why would they need to do anything

right, gob is my buddy and thats why i want to yeet him

Weird.

[DarthPunk]

VOTE: oatsmaster
oh and this is scum btw

VOTE: Vivax

VOTE: luca

This series of votes look really weird in relation to this vote count

2.2

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / outoforder

DarthPunk (1):

Luca Blight

outoforder (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (5):

Hu Tao / Grackaroni / Naerys / gob / Dannflor

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

Reminder that while the game of mafia can be room for more lax social rules given the way it works, i would MUCH rather that everyone keeps it cool, i'm also not excluding myself from force-replacing people on the grounds that they create an excessively toxic game environnement, no matter the alignement

Flavor

Spoiler:

Doing flavor later cause i'm sad

Voting with two scum reads onto luca? Cause his reaction was bad? Maybe a distancing/bus attempt.

luca blight feels towny

can;t see the progression from here.

[DarthPunk]

This looks genuine to me.

I think Dannfloor is mafia. They don't seem to be solving much at all.

Hmm

i think dann did plenty of solving and gob is sus

VOTE: gob
i actually wish to head this way
anybody up for this

[DarthPunk]

This looks genuine to me.

I think Dannfloor is mafia. They don't seem to be solving much at all.

Hmm

i think dann did plenty of solving and gob is sus

VOTE: gob
i actually wish to head this way
anybody up for this

I really liked this series of posts at the time btw.

[DarthPunk]

For someone who complained about me voting him when he was going afk, it's a bit rich that you should vote me while I'm asleep.

VOTE: Darth Punk

I've said pretty much all I have to say. If Naerys or Hu Tao have any questions then let me know.

you voted me AFTER I had just said I wanted some time, I have no idea what time zone you are in, the fact you are prescribing malice to that is just one more point against you.

[DarthPunk]

For someone that basically everyone called mafia, Luca is incredibly hard to yeet this game.

Who's my partner then?

Im still figuring that out, but as you have gone to some length to throw shit around this game, its hard to entangle.

Who is my partner?

[DarthPunk]

For someone that basically everyone called mafia, Luca is incredibly hard to yeet this game.

Who's my partner then?

Im still figuring that out, but as you have gone to some length to throw shit around this game, its hard to entangle.

Who is my partner?

vivax is your partner.

the one who was your strongest town read 12 or so hours ago?

Ridiculous.

[DarthPunk]

This progression from you is just wrong.

Vivax/nearys are mafia > DP/nearys are mafia (sheeping vivax) VIVAX IS MY STRONGEST TOWN READ CAUSE DP IS MAFIA

Vivax calls you mafia = Vivax/DP are mafia

If you think Vivax is mafia, then you should have revaluated your read on me, because it was derived from your sheep of vivax. but it just went to a team that makes not fucking sense at all.

ergo you are mafia.

and you call people who try and yeet you mafia.

and that is all you have done this entire game.

[DarthPunk]

I'm allowed to change my mind based on game developments. That's what town does.

Not like that, it makes no sense, and not that fast based on sheeping your now mafia read.

You were throwing shit to see what sticks.

[DarthPunk]

In fact town should be -cautious - right now, one mistake ends the game, but you kind of lost your mind when you voted for me.

That whole section of play outlined in my case CANNOT come from town.

[DarthPunk]

Nope, I changed after interactions with Naerys and Hu Tao showed they were both more likely to be town. How am I sheeping my mafia read? I suspected you independent of vivax, and later came to the conclusion that you're both aligned.

As Town I don't have the answers in front of me. I've had to wade through a lot of mess in order to come to the conclusion that I've now arrived at, and I fully believe it's the right conclusion.

Yeah you believe that the people who call you mafia are mafia, just like all game. You sheeped vivax and the idea and thread sentiment he generated when he pushed me, then you called him your biggest town read, 30! minutes after saying there is no good reason Vivax and Nearys are not scum together.

You clearly don't believe what you say, because it is just about an agenda of survival/misinformation for you.

[DarthPunk]

For someone that basically everyone called mafia, Luca is incredibly hard to yeet this game.

Who's my partner then?

Im still figuring that out, but as you have gone to some length to throw shit around this game, its hard to entangle.

Who is my partner?

Whenever someone else something like this, you'd say they're '

hedging

'.

If you had to choose right now, who would you say my partner is?

Didn't you just say that townies have to sift through information and make up their mind etc.

But now you expect townies to be certain in their reads.

I have already answered this question to vivax, and I have been diving through ISO's but again, I think it is HT.

Just proves you are only interested in what you can find to make me scummy rather than actually reading and comprehending the thread.

[DarthPunk]

All you have to do is to shout that you have the highground now.

I‘ll let Hu and Naerys decide on a vote before I do.

Who are you talking about?

[DarthPunk]

Anyway the reasons think Luca is mafia are clear, multiple cases, play based on agenda, survival oriented mindset, on the wrong wagons, read progression based on convenience rather than evidence.

the reasons luca thinks I am mafia is because I called him mafia.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

[DarthPunk]

Nope, I changed after interactions with Naerys and Hu Tao showed they were both more likely to be town. How am I sheeping my mafia read? I suspected you independent of vivax, and later came to the conclusion that you're both aligned.

As Town I don't have the answers in front of me. I've had to wade through a lot of mess in order to come to the conclusion that I've now arrived at, and I fully believe it's the right conclusion.

Yeah you believe that the people who call you mafia are mafia, just like all game. You sheeped vivax and the idea and thread sentiment he generated when he pushed me, then you called him your biggest town read, 30! minutes after saying there is no good reason Vivax and Nearys are not scum together.

You clearly don't believe what you say,

because it is just about an agenda of survival/misinformation for you.

Says the guy who say I'd spewed Dunn as town, then votes to eliminate him a short while later

I did not sheep vivax at all, I have my own reasons to suspect you and don't even understand why vivax supposedly suspects you.

I have been called mafia by literally everyone in this game, so of course I would end up voting someone who called me mafia - it's inevitable.

Yeah I was wrong to sheep my two top town reads who were asking me to swap off.

But that case stands, it was a fucking good case tbh.

[DarthPunk]

Nope, I changed after interactions with Naerys and Hu Tao showed they were both more likely to be town. How am I sheeping my mafia read? I suspected you independent of vivax, and later came to the conclusion that you're both aligned.

As Town I don't have the answers in front of me. I've had to wade through a lot of mess in order to come to the conclusion that I've now arrived at, and I fully believe it's the right conclusion.

Yeah you believe that the people who call you mafia are mafia, just like all game. You sheeped vivax and the idea and thread sentiment he generated when he pushed me, then you called him your biggest town read, 30! minutes after saying there is no good reason Vivax and Nearys are not scum together.

You clearly don't believe what you say,

because it is just about an agenda of survival/misinformation for you.

Says the guy who say I'd spewed Dunn as town, then votes to eliminate him a short while later

I did not sheep vivax at all, I have my own reasons to suspect you and don't even understand why vivax supposedly suspects you.

I have been called mafia by literally everyone in this game, so of course I would end up voting someone who called me mafia - it's inevitable.

yes, but you focus on the people most actively pushing you and this has occured from the start of the game.

And not everyone called you mafia this game at the same time, so when I stopped calling you mafia, you stopped calling me mafia.

When vivax calls me and ht teamed you call him your biggest town read. etc. etc.

[DarthPunk]

Anyway the reasons think Luca is mafia are clear, multiple cases, play based on agenda, survival oriented mindset, on the wrong wagons, read progression based on convenience rather than evidence.

the reasons luca thinks I am mafia is because I called him mafia.

Oh yes, so

convenient

to take on the half the tl crew at once while (rightly) defending my townreads D1.

So

convenient

to go 1v1 with the player who was the consensus townread at the start of the day.

you swapped with thread sentiment, it was really obvious and anyone can read the thread and see that this is the case.

Anything more than that is obvious wifom

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

[DarthPunk]

TBH I don't care about anything luca has to say.

Im going to keep reading Vivax and HT's Iso's to try and figure them out.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

this is why Luca is scum btw, the way he was flip-flopping his reads and then the YOLO into the 1v1 with me, its just really, really reckless as town.

If he hadn't done that I don't think I could have been sure enough on him to vote.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I agree but still, I won‘t do anything here until Naerys and HT can react to the situation.

Fairly unemotional about it honestly.

I mean that is fair enough, but I also need to figure out what happens afterwards, cause I can yeet mafia here, and then I either die or am up for a misyeet next phase.

So i would really like to engage with the other parts of the game.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

[DarthPunk]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

I don't think it matters, I would just like to talk about what happens post luca flip.

[DarthPunk]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

I don't think it matters, I would just like to talk about what happens post luca flip.

That largely depends on the perceptions of each other we put out into the thread.

Last scum will kill accordingly. Technically we‘re better off lying about our intentions for what happens afterwards.

True.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

I thought oats was pocketing me

I disagree, I pushed gob and got the thread to a point that force him to fake claim to survive.

[DarthPunk]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

Or we just formed a town circle, common practice on our site.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

I thought oats was pocketing me

I disagree, I pushed gob and got the thread to a point that force him to fake claim to survive.

Gob fake-claimed when he wasn't even near being yeeted, so that's not true.

he was exe-2

[DarthPunk]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

Or we just formed a town circle, common practice on our site.

And yet when I form a town circle with Dann and Ninja it's pocketing?

You did gross manipulative shit with ninja, I have addressed this previously.

[DarthPunk]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

cause you let me lead a mislim on grack, to put me in a situation where my alignment is questioned and I lose thread pull when i have to deal with you.

ALSO just wifom, you really love the wifom arguments hey?

[DarthPunk]

I am - not - going to shit up the thread arguing with you all day, so my good case gets buried in the shit, as I am sure is your intention.

[DarthPunk]

Basically my thoughts on the game are as follows.

1.) Luca is mafia. there are many reasons I believe he is mafia.

I think my case on him from early in the game still stands, he basically spent the entire game scum reading people who are suspicious of him and town reading those who are not.

Case in point his read on me this game which went from Town-> mafia when I call him out, back to Town when I back off and then Mafia again when I call him out again.

He has done the same thing with vivax and oats. When he engages in discussions or arguments he twists the truth:

Spoiler:

Ugh, its impossible to engage with you when you literally twist and lie about everything.

Here is the progression and I know you are going to have some lies about why this is not really the truth, but for everyone else THIS IS REALLY THE TRUTH.

1.) you hard agree with ninja's post. and say 'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely' with the exception implied being the oats read

499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.

The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.

Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.

2.)Outoforder and I Discuss concerns with the basic failures of logically consistency in that exact post and raise the issue that it 'reflects your thoughts on the game almost entirely' because you have failed to identify and consider the issues in Ninja's post

- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

Well I liked that ninja said she was trying to do something with the activity stuff in that post. I do have a soft spot for big effort posts though.

Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?

I liked the last post Luca made about ninja's post, other than that I don't have much thought. Vivax has been making posts that seem weird to me but I wrote it off as playstyle differences.

And sure I don't have to agree with everything someone says to think they are town. I often don't.

Of course you dont, i wouldnt hold that against you.

But like, we've expressed some concerns in Ninja's post (with DP). Like... if Ninja posts like that (makes big posts with a lot of effort) as town, i wouldnt think she would act differently as mafia. For the posters who make wall of texts, it's often small nuances that give them out -- as you can look reasonable by posting 90% truth about other players as long as your vote ends up on someone who isnt mafia.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I find these to be those kind of small nuances that

could make her mafia

. I am not sure of it, but it's definitely something to look into imo.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

3.) Dunn agrees with the good point because it was.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I didn't have a problem with Ninja's read on Dann. They talk about how they missed the post and then talked about their reads after.
Looking back at 499 they do seem to point to a Luca post they liked and explain their read.
And I don't see where they talk about confirmation bias regarding you.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

4.) Much later Luca uses out of context snips of quotes and completely fabricates the historical narrative when ostensibly he is supposed to be 'sorting' implying an open mind.

I just Iso'd Naerys and got absolutely nothing from it.

I'm looking through Dunn's posts now (I'm not finished yet), and I really don't feel great about how he began the game, talking mainly about theory and hardly engaging with anything else. I also didn't like this:

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

Because it wasn't a good point, in fact outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read, and I would expect Dunn, as careful as he has been in this game, to pick up on that if he was genuinely trying to read me in this situation. Especially when Dunn mentioned/implied he only comments on posts he finds worthy. He also does nothing with this - it leads nowhere, and is never mentioned or referenced again, so he couldn't have believed it was that good a point.

It was a good point though.

It can't be a good point when it's provably wrong.

5. Luca is mafia

Here is DP's case on you Luca.
In this case DP says:
- you hard agree with ninja's post. and say

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

with the exception implied being the oats read
- multiple people discuss the points Ninja made in her post, and point out there are points why the post shouldn't be agreed with, namely me, DP, Dunnstral at least
- we discuss on how it could make you mafia (before DP's case), that you

agree with the post almost entirely

, why that is possibly a scummy thing to do, because any townie should not do that
- you counter that point with

[...]"outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

Now this is not the point we were discussing. We were discussing entirely other parts of that post. I mean like

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

cannot really be considered ONLY as

"i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

. It's just simply an "over-townread" on Ninja regarding the situation without better explanation on this. It is true that you are not explicitly "lying", but you have to understand if you say

'reflects my thoughts on the game

almost entirely

'

, you just cannot brush off the other discrepancies of the post just because you had one different read. Which i can fairly see DP thinks you are doing.

You did the similar thing a few times before also.
You literally said:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

A bit after that you even enforce the statement with this:

It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves.

Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this.

Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.

And after this you are questioning Oats on his read or non-read on gob.

What am i supposed to think??? You give every single piece of clue that you're scumreading both Roden and Oats, just to later on say that you didn't do so and you have never said so.
Again, yeah you are not explicitly lying, but whatever you posted in the thread between there that sure seems like that's the thought you had in your head.

Same thing again with your read on Roden as full. You call him out on being defensive, aggressive and potentially power wolfing (i dont care who said that first, you basically did call him out on that). When i question you on "how does being defensive or aggressive make anyone mafia?", you say you never said those things, it was Roden who brought it up. It's very very twisted how you build your posts just to backtrack on them -- again, by not lying, but you give the impression you DEFINITELY think something, and when it's called out you have a way to back off of it. Like here:

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early,

and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something?

And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

You seem to massively contradict yourself from one sentence to another, unless I just don't understand what you're saying here.

I also don't have a strong SR on Oats and never have - just his interaction with Roden seemed off to me. I do, however, read Roden as scum independently.

You seem to be making out like I'm throwing all my chips on Oats and Roden being partners, which isn't the case at all. You're overblowing everything I've said.

Spoiler:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think

it's possible

you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and

because of that only

, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.

I haven't brushed anything away - I literally just said i understood where you were going from initially, which is why I made an effort to present my reads in a more transparent way.

Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?

If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it

, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?

I've answered that already, and once again just above.

- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless

you actually think you are not solving the game

, which you shouldn't as town)

The problem is that you're not reading properly.

I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially.

What I said was that most of the things Roden accused oat of, including defensiveness, had also been displayed by Roden himself.

Nowhere have I ever said that being defensive automatically equals scum, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure why this even needs to be explained, as it should be obvious?

Like in that post you literally contradicted yourself in one sentence.

Basically, at best you are not doing very good job at being clear in what you think and how it reflects into the thread. When you are called out for your literal words you have written in this game, you say they meant something else. That's a big problem to me.

All of this still applies to Luca's play and means that he has not been accountable for any of his slip ups this game.

Further Luca has engaged in really shitty appeals to emotion and wifom since kind of coasting along post Oats yeet.

For example:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

Luca is basically saying in this post 'I am town and I am willing to throw the game if you guys scum read me' it's an attempt to paly on fear of townies and also -scum can afford to engage in gambits like this and town cannot-

I’m around now for a couple of hours.

I’ve been following the thread but I want to re read a bit and catch up properly.

ATM I Think HT+Luca is the most likely.

As I said to Vivax earlier, if I'm scum with Hu Tao why wouldn't I have voted to eliminate Vivax yesterday, when you strongly scumread Grack and townread Vivax, while Ninja only wanted Vivax dead, and Ninja was always going to be dead and you alive coming into D5?

In which case I've set myself up to fail, as you and Vivax are always going to vote me today following Grack's flip, and Ninja, who was my only supporter, is dead.

WIFOM

but the worst thing of all is his interactions this phase.

Its kind of tough to outline so i am about to quote a bunch of posts, but basically, Luca has been trying to follow the reads of anyone he happens to be interacting with (except me, probably cause I was not in the thread that much at start of day) and kind of shifts his reads to get on a common ground with them. Then scum reads people who call him mafia.

but the most egregious sin of all is this:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

I said I was willing to consider but you'd need to

sell me why vivax/naerys makes sense

I don't see any reason it doesn't make sense?

I'm certainly not putting all my eggs in the vivax/naerys basket. It wouldn't surprise me right now if Darth/Naerys was the scum team.

9 MINUTES LATER!!!!!

And who do you think are the 2 scum then?

Two of you/Vivax/Naerys. Right now I would guess you and Naerys.

Of course, it could be Darth, but if so then gg because there's no turning that around at this stage.

This is literally everyone in the game.

Who are your top 2? No hedging.

Ok, right now my money would be on you and Naerys being the scum team.

55 minutes later after saying that THERE IS NO REASON VIVAX/NEARYS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS A SCUM TEAM. Vivax is now his strongest town read.

Ironically vivax has become my strongest townread,

and Darth is the most likely to be scum.

I feel as though Hu Tao and Naerys is a case of one pocketing the other, a bit like the Darth/oats dynamic earlier in the game.

Darth/Naerys is still my pick, I'll have a look through at the Darth/Hu Tao interactions.

This is just mafia play, he is flailing around throwing whatever on the wall he can hope to stick to anyone at all.

He is not being cautious about a mislim here, which will end the game, He is spreading chaos, certainly distancing from his partner and trying desperately to get a townie limmed over himself.

Then his attempt to quick lim me, while thread sentiment was poor for me and I had openly stated I was going to be away.

I’m around tomorrow a lot while I am at work to address all this stuff. We have plenty of time and I plan on making use of it.

F*ck it, let's go.

VOTE: Darth Punk

I realise this is an uphill battle against someone who everyone reads as town, but in that case then the game is lost anyway.

Nothing about Darth's reaction makes me think he could be town. As town he would see that I'm trying to solve the game, even if I suspect him, rather than say it makes me confirmed scum, because what is my motivation here as scum? As scum I don't go head to head with the consencus town read, nor against half of the tl crew like I did on D1 while (rightly) defending my townreads.

Then he does this. I cannot see how this comes from anything other than mafia.

Other points to consider,

He does this weird shit where he calls Vivax/Naerys the scum team as seen above, then he sheeps vivax on me, sheeps naerys and vivax and susses HT, then while talking with HT says

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

This guy is all over the fucking place. He is mafia because he doesn't care about anything except his own survival and his reads are basically in place to appease whoever he happens to be interacting with at the time.

This is on top of all the reasons he was mafia before, the reasons myself, OOO and oats outlined all game.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[DarthPunk]

Town read the above please.

[DarthPunk]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

cause you let me lead a mislim on grack, to put me in a situation where my alignment is questioned and I lose thread pull when i have to deal with you.

ALSO just wifom, you really love the wifom arguments hey?

Have I used your pushing of Grack to say you're scum? Not really. In hindsight it makes sense why you wanted to save vivax, though,

Ninja was practically begging to eliminate vivax, who I had scumread before. Yet I cause conflict with Grack, who wasn't previously scumreading me, and push a wagon that ended with a mislim, rather than letting Ninja take responsibility for the vivax elimination, and then use your scumread on grack to win the game in melo?

You can't say that my reads are convenient, but then when I point out why they aren't write it off as 'wifom'.

I wanted to save vivax cause I thought he was town. Maybe I was wrong about that, I still could be wrong, but there are good reasons to think he is town.

He has the right mix of paranoia and curiosity to solve that comes from town vivax.

Scum vivax is more of a troll.

[DarthPunk]

The main point though was that my reads haven't always been 'convenient' like you're making out. If I was scum and you and vivax are town like you seem to believe, then it would have been way more convenient to lim vivax on D4 for the reasons I explained.

I don't agree.

[DarthPunk]

Why are you trying to convince me if you are convinced I am mafia? lol.

[DarthPunk]

The main point though was that my reads haven't always been 'convenient' like you're making out. If I was scum and you and vivax are town like you seem to believe, then it would have been way more convenient to lim vivax on D4 for the reasons I explained.

I don't agree.

well, of course you wouldn't, because you're scum.

But any objective person can see that if I was scum D4 I would have had more reason to ride conftown Ninja's wish to eliminate vivax, which would have been very easy as I was already scumreading vivax, who has scumread me for most of the game and who you hard townread, than vote to eliminate Grack who you scumread, and who wasn't scumreading me until I started pushing for his elimination. Strategically this would have been massively counter-productive as scum, leading to a situation on D5 when you and vivax are already likely to gang up on me, as well as hu tao and naerys who both thought I was scum with vivax heading into this day.

If I'm scum then I'm making it unnecessarily hard for myself, I'm certainly not making 'convenient' reads.

I already explained this, you probably did it to make this exact argument against me/whoever your 1v1 target was.

[DarthPunk]

Why are you trying to convince me if you are convinced I am mafia? lol.

You keep saying shit like this. So any time you respond to my points then it means you're trying to convince me?

I'm countering your arguments against me, it certainly isn't for your benefit.

Why don't we both just stop then.

[DarthPunk]

The main point though was that my reads haven't always been 'convenient' like you're making out. If I was scum and you and vivax are town like you seem to believe, then it would have been way more convenient to lim vivax on D4 for the reasons I explained.

I don't agree.

well, of course you wouldn't, because you're scum.

But any objective person can see that if I was scum D4 I would have had more reason to ride conftown Ninja's wish to eliminate vivax, which would have been very easy as I was already scumreading vivax, who has scumread me for most of the game and who you hard townread, than vote to eliminate Grack who you scumread, and who wasn't scumreading me until I started pushing for his elimination. Strategically this would have been massively counter-productive as scum, leading to a situation on D5 when you and vivax are already likely to gang up on me, as well as hu tao and naerys who both thought I was scum with vivax heading into this day.

If I'm scum then I'm making it unnecessarily hard for myself, I'm certainly not making 'convenient' reads.

I already explained this, you probably did it to make this exact argument against me/whoever your 1v1 target was.

Why didn't I say it earlier, then? I've only said it in response to you saying I have only made convenient reads.

As soon as I point out my reads have been far from convenient, you write it off as wifom.

I don't think that this example disproves my point, or any other point in my case.

But yes lets stop.