Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Lowell]

Hell yeah!

vote catscratch

[Lowell]

Cats wagon please.

[Lowell]

You know why

[Lowell]

Boomer intuition

[Lowell]

He’s a pedant, not a scum

[Lowell]

Shosh and pants doing a “let’s performatively say opposite things on a thing that doesn’t matter” gambit. Love it.

Cats still, though. Someone hammer

[Lowell]

On the road all day. Prod dodging. Which seems to be the best way to avoid suspicion here for clown reasons. I’ll look this over tomorrow.

[Lowell]

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

[Lowell]

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

Do you, uh, have any actual reasons for your thoughts?

Offhand, Cats' reaction to getting votes gives me "waah i'm caught for bullshit reasons this is so unfair" vibes. Kenny seems a little too polished with his unfrozen-caveman "i'm a newbie" gimmick. Malcolm seems overly careful and like he's hiding.

fancy gave off "town captain" scum vibes, but now I think maybe that's just who he is--that he hasn't backed off from his pedantry and wordiness is probably a good sign. mala I can't remember, just a vibe. Irrelephant mostly asking good questions, toffee I forget why but in ISO I have town read.

[Lowell]

I'm sure there are other players as well. They're all scum probably.

[Lowell]

yeah I have 8 scum

[Lowell]

fred and shosh lean scum, CW lean town, and no opinion on the others

[Lowell]

@Lowell, are your fred and shosh leans based on meta?

This is my first game in half a decade and I don't know any of you so, no, not meta.

[Lowell]

God help me I’m starting to pull a town read on Malcolm. His last few posts have convinced (?) me (?), though I’m not so far gone that I can’t admit it’s based on tone, not content.

Also I have the ‘Rona. Sadface.

[Lowell]

God help me I’m starting to pull a town read on Malcolm. His last few posts have convinced (?) me (?), though I’m not so far gone that I can’t admit it’s based on tone, not content.

Also I have the ‘Rona. Sadface.

Why did you preface this post with "God help me" btw?

I don’t consider him to be a useful player and would prefer him to be scum. To answer whoever else asked, something about the way he talks about preferring to be scum makes me now read him as town.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote loftwing

Fine with this. No particular read on loft one way or the other but I’ve done dumber things with less reason.

[Lowell]

Should be an obvious point but we do need to be careful with votes over the next couple of days. Kitty won't be around till July 1 and if we lose track it'd be easy for scum to potentially eliminate a townie who racks up some votes by accident while claiming they knew no better.

That never happens, no one ever does anything. Either way, who cares if someone LOLhammers the guy you want dead anyway.

[Lowell]

Cats still mad I busted him up so early. Sorry Bud it happens, even a blind Lowell finds a nut once in a while. I’ll laugh if it’s eira AND Cats, but I doubt that’s likely unless there’s a scum day chat.

[Lowell]

Bro I haven’t played in five years. Gimme a minute here

[Lowell]

Also @cw you’re making the classic mistake of thinking thoughtful/useful = town. Your list is basically “here’s who I read the most from”

[Lowell]

With the caveat that this is pretty meaningless since I could easily be faking not knowing, as you say: I’m not sure I can recall daychat ever being done, much less standard. But yes who cares.

[Lowell]

@cw that just isn’t right. “Good” players tend to survive regardless of alignment, it’s the reason I go on feel and atmospherics more than by who can craft the most thoughtful case. Cats panicked when he thought he was caught for a dumb reason, and has spent the next 20 pages lurking or sniping at low hanging fruit. That’s more meaningful to me than “oh this idiot has bad opinions”

[Lowell]

Anyway so who we killing here. Anyone but me.

[Lowell]

CW could be scum trying to power a miselim through. I think loftwing is a pretty good flip

We should consider making a flip happen sooner rather than later because this weekend is a holiday weekend for everyone in the US and we have about 2.5 days left in this game day, during which the American players might barely post (e.g. me, I'll be hanging with family)

I agree with this, especially as one of the folks who will be more out than in this weekend. And the way the loftwing wagon just seems to be floating there with no one wanting to hammer makes me feel good about it. The last vote is always the hardest--come on folks, someone be a hero.

[Lowell]

@eira, loft/kenny/CW would be a hilariously clumsy scumteam so I doubt it. But loft with one of those two seems possible, with the third person being the duped town player along for the ride.

[Lowell]

This is terrible ^

[Lowell]

Like pulling teeth around here. Let’s all call a guy useless and scummy and do nothing.

[Lowell]

Cool.

Unrelated: BBT is scum

[Lowell]

Dudes loft posted 8 times in the last day and a half, listing all his suspects, what exactly you want from him? Vote him or don’t. BBT is scum, eira is probably town, I have this read in my head and can’t shake it now.

[Lowell]

Because of the things I said already…?

[Lowell]

Fine. I’ll be white-knighting scumBBTs errand boy if it gets us a vote.

vote Fred

I guess this ship has sailed, but man does that ever seem like a fake-claim. Never heard of a neighborizer—why would it exist in a mini.

[Lowell]

Enough pearl clutching. Do something

[Lowell]

Enough pearl clutching. Do something

I'll vote before I go to sleep tonight.

I'm just trying to be as sure as I can be.

So to be clear you won't answer the question?

Are you being serious here or what?

It’s D1, I’m not doing a no-elim. Any of you idiots can be scum. I’m not dogmatic and ppl who are are suspect to me. Stop performing outrage about votes and do something.

[Lowell]

Fine. I’ll be white-knighting scumBBTs errand boy if it gets us a vote.

vote Fred

I guess this ship has sailed, but man does that ever seem like a fake-claim. Never heard of a neighborizer—why would it exist in a mini.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer to vote out a townie than not elim? Or are you suggesting BBT is bussing.

This post comes across as scummy as hell. Why sheep a player you believe is scum.

Also, to be clear so I know what you find “scummy”: you’re saying a town player would not say “this guy is scum, meh okay I’ll sheep him” but a scum player would indeed say “this guy is scum, meh okay I’ll sheep him”?

[Lowell]

Someone finish this guy. Preferably before fancy drops 30 more posts to say “awww geez I don’t know we better be smart guys!”

[Lowell]

Hell yeah loft was scum. What do I do now that I can't vote Cats???

[Lowell]

Nevermind I've figured it out.

vote gamma

Welcome

[Lowell]

My initial D2 thoughts based on what I can remember:

Towns: Irrel, Fancy, Kenny
Nulls: BBT, Malcolm, Eira
Scums: Gamma, Mala, CW

[Lowell]

So the two leading wagons were both scum, and one (me) jumped off without explanation to bus the other (loft)? Is that your theory?

Contriving reasons to vote Lowell when you're in a panic is a classic scum move bro

[Lowell]

I welcome you to call logic thats perfectly reasonable "contrived " as it only strengthens my confidence my theory is correct
Explain your reads (: tick tock

Oh no a clock is ticking? Gasp and panic!

[Lowell]

1 dimensional being any analysis that doesn't lead to scumCW wagoning his easiest target

[Lowell]

@Irrel, am I misremembering or were kenny and loft on the block at the same time? If so I find both being scum highly unlikely.

[Lowell]

Nevermind I see now that was Eira, not kenny. In that case I'll join the wagon, and you can reverse kenny and eira on my previous list.

unvote, vote kenny

[Lowell]

I like gamma more than Kenny here now that I’m thinking about it. I’m doing the thing irrel asked because I’m a shameless sheep but the gamma thing is better. Shosh fits as scum—slight coaching of loft, lurking around and not committing one way or the other to the loft wagon, then performatively noting that the hammer was to avoid a no kill.

[Lowell]

Haha woooo

VOTE: gamma

[Lowell]

oh i wasnt asking lol

but now that i think of it, gamma/lowell makes perfect sense with how lowell was pushing me as a partner with shoshin.

and why scum were extremely intent on saving lowell by bussing loft
why gamma was the one to lead the kill

etc.

Holy shit lookit this guy flail. Here’s #3. All terrible

[Lowell]

I’m 90% sure the scum plan was to kill cats to frame me as the person tunneling him/her, and now are panicking when loft was killed and trying to do the exact opposite, aka create some “deep bus” conspiracy to explain my continued push on loft even after the claim (that CW led the “oh shucks I guess I believe the claim let’s look elsewhere” on)

[Lowell]

I'm just like wondering why the fuck the CSF kill makes sense now if we are in a world where Shosh is scum ?

like Lowell came into this day hardpushing gamma ???

is watcher a thing in normals?


actually what if scum have a role watcher ROFL

Also thanks for trolling for a claim from me here btw.

[Lowell]

Fine with that. If it feels good to successfully tunnel me on your way out, you do you.

[Lowell]

You’ve sure posted a lot and asked a lot of rambling questions, you gonna vote for gamma or are you guys talking over which of your conspiracy theories you’re going to use as an excuse not to?

[Lowell]

Whoa dang you got me. Busted. Can’t wait to hang out in my one-person scum chat

[Lowell]

i'm still like not entirely sure shoshin slot was even scum and i wanted gamma to say something and rushing here was really bad :/

Exhausting.

[Lowell]

on VLA til 16

Although this low key looks scummy. Day’s over, he could send in actions (and presumably has) if he has any. Loudly walking out the door prior to night seems like a nice way to “prove” you’ve got nothing going on at night.

But I could be overthinking

[Lowell]

@CW you got me. Scum plan was a Lowell double-bus. *chef's kiss* Stop tunneling bro.

[Lowell]

See i would self vote here but i know that no one will listen to me abojt lowell so i want to thunderdome lowell here and now and no one contribute arguments for lowell. Let him make his case. I will SHOW YOU he is scum.

Honestly dude I'm not "making a case" for me being town, that's not how it works. And I've never been more right about a mafia game than this one. Besides, my "case" is that I was right about loftwing and pushed him even after others (you) were saying "oh nothing to see here, great claim!", then joined the push on gamma while others (you, again) were like "weeeelllll, let's give him more time I'm not so sure what about LOWELL???" And I've already heard your awesome response of "WIFOM DOUBLEBUS THATS WHAT YOU WANT US TO THINK OMG" enough that I don't care to hear it again.

[Lowell]

VOTE: kenny. It's him or CW and I'm tired of arguing with CW.

[Lowell]

I’m remembering why I quit this site for 5 years.

[Lowell]

Just vote me, CW. I’m saying nothing more to you.

[Lowell]

Checking in, mostly out this weekend. Still Kenny or CW for me, with fancy as unmovable town and irrel and eira not far behind.

[Lowell]

So are we talking ourselves out of a winning move here or what? Are we still looking for reasons not to vote whoever replaced Kenny?

[Lowell]

It’s getting harder and harder to play to my wincon. Can we finish this already?

[Lowell]

Nah your case is boring and dumb and I’ve been kicking ass and taking names so I’ll pass.

[Lowell]

Let’s just vote. Scum need three misses right? I’m good with calling fancy, eira, and irrel town and going from there.

[Lowell]

Okay I feel like this has escalated and I need to step back and reset.

CW, I’m sorry I’m being salty. My frustration is getting the best of me which is dumb. I appreciate the time you put into this game and your earnestness at playing to your wincon. Games need players like you even if players like me are sometimes assholes about it. I realize I’ve been tilting over the line from “fun and witty” to “kinda dickish” which isn’t fun for anyone.

to:dr Fair play on your case on me. Honestly I’m never going to have the energy to engage at your level so if you really think I’m scum (or want it to appear so! Also okay!) you should vote me. I’m probably not going to give you what you want but I’ll be nicer in the future.

[Lowell]

Anyway now I’m off to bed. Never go to sleep mad I say. Goodnight friends!

[Lowell]

Yeah cw’s ISO is a hilarious comedy of being wrong, so again I’m not that concerned one way or the other about his tunneling me. He’s just a high volume, basically bad town player or a scum player committed to a strategy. Neither would surprise.

To believe I’m scum you have to believe I bussed way harder than any scum would have to on D1, then immediately turned around and nked the player I had been tunneling all day, then again pivoted to push the kill on gamma. My goal is to bus all my teammates during the day and then draw all attention to myself with night kills? I’m not going to tell anyone they can’t do something insane just for the lolz in a game of mafia but I’m not going to pretend to take seriously the pretzel logic that points to me.

CW, on the other hand, immediately embraced the loft claim, tried hard to “whatabout…” and stall the gamma kill, and has bullying his completely wrong views the entire game. He’s pure volume and actively trying to derail everything good that has happened. Scum or town we’re better off without him.

[Lowell]

CWs tunneling in some way points to him not being scum (I feel like scum would benefit from being cagier and keeping options open), but does make it easier for the scum to hid behind by sowing doubt where none needs to be. Like whatever irrel is doing, for example.

[Lowell]

VOTE: BBT

Lowell I’m spinning out, yes. But honest question - do you still scumread the Kenny slot? I felt confident it was Kenny and now I don’t and I feel lost. My current best guess is BBT who, when he couldn’t get the Kenny miselim anymore, started “sorting”

By process of elimination more than anything, but yes. Fancy town for claim, eira for the way D1 played out, and you for various townish pushes at various times.

I’m mostly town reading bbt based on tone, and now slightly leaving town on CW as I’m selling myself on him just being a tunneling weirdo rather than setting up a scum endgame.

[Lowell]

Oh and Malcolm. Can’t remember why but mostly town reading him as well.

[Lowell]

Lowell, 1803 if you could please

I’m on my phone not going to read back, but if I recall this was me misremembering the order of D1 wagons. Thought originally that Kenny slot emerged as counter to loft but was actually eira. Hence eira getting the towncred.

[Lowell]

Hi Lowell, can you look at 1803 and talk to me about what happened in those two posts?

Also, when did I become town and when did Malcolm become town?

Town is strong. Let’s just say less suspect than Kenny. Neither of you are in the “I’d be shocked if they flipped scum” category of fancy, eira, or irrel. And I don’t remember a specific moment for either of you, just that you’re less on my radar.

Again, if it’s really important that we do all this I can, but likely not in painstaking detail today.

[Lowell]

Yeah but you said to switch their places and one was town and one was null.

So why were you voting a null read over 3 scum reads?

Because everyone was saying Kenny and I’m not really interested in making a different case. Happy to vote elsewhere, I’m not dying on any of these hills. Tunneling is why we’re a cluster right now, I’m always fine making a good vote rather than a perfect one, especially if folks I townread are pushing it.

[Lowell]

It kind of is because you were scum reading me at end of D1 and nothing really happened D2 that should have changed that

Happy to vote you if it comes to it. Kenny and his replacement have both continued to look bad whereas your interventions today have been marginally better.

[Lowell]

Anyone but fancy, eira, and irrel, you mean?

Honestly? Probably. There’s one scum left, I’m not that worried about being taken for a ride if other townies are on it.

[Lowell]

If your next point is “well if everyone were like you and just sheeping wouldn’t we be SOL”? Also, probably yes, but that’s not a problem this bunch has.

[Lowell]

Outmaneuvered again. Touché bbt. Haha

[Lowell]

But just to be clear, so far my “coasting” could better be described as “being mostly right about things and productively finding scum while not burying everyone in text walls”

[Lowell]

Sure. All of your posts are either “excuse me can you tell me why I’m scum” like that one, or thin halfhearted “hmm let’s think about this” without taking any kind of stand. Your previous (to this) post of 1653 being as good an example as any. Here you’re saying it’s “notable” that the two scum didn’t vote for me (out of 12 players?) for… what reason? Previous post to that is a bunch of color-coded nonsense nominally designed to look like you’re analyzing votecounts. There’s others if I need go on. Honestly your whole vibe is “oh shucks why you suspicious of little old me” while trying to keep various different pots cooking on low. You’re hoping a better positioned player will save you.

[Lowell]

CW: post more please

Also CW: hmmm you posted more. SUSPICIOUS!

[Lowell]

Lowell pretend you think BBT’s tone is null instead of towny and tell me how you read his alignment and why

Consider it an exercise in helping me get my head on straight

Mostly null, really. In ISO there's not much there, and in general I think he inserts himself in more-or-less beneficial ways. In particular his reactions to the loft claim don't seem like they came from someone who helped coordinate the loft claim. WIFOM, I suppose. Not at all married to this read but I'd probably lean town. Dunn looks worse for me still, and perhaps CW or Malcom.

[Lowell]

The mechanical case for Dunn/Kenny is that slot claimed vt. Scum going to have a nightmare time unless we eliminate some prs for them. Fancy/enchant slot is a problem, plus a vig, plus whatever prevented a kill last night. With me now being less certain on CW (and also lowkey starting to wonder about irrel), I’m good taking what to me is still the likeliest and also certainly the safest elim.

[Lowell]

I’ll admit at this point I’m only getting more confused, not less.

[Lowell]

and we suspect a compulsive vigilante exists because obviously a) mafia flipped n1 and b) a compulsive vigilante backup flipped

Right. And given the math someone drew out earlier, I kinda feel like scum has to find vig today. Vig is not Dunn.

[Lowell]

I guess. Seems weird not too tough. Either way, probably someone scum would want to find.

[Lowell]

Too tough= to though. Trying to do this idiocy on my phone.

[Lowell]

Still like dunn more than CW but you know I'm ready to hammer if needed.

[Lowell]

BBT are you scum? You're the hardest one for me to read.

[Lowell]

Can we do Dunn instead of cw? I’m buying cw as town

[Lowell]

Was that a hammer? We need another vote or what?

[Lowell]

Hahaha after all that it was the damn Kenny slot.

[Lowell]

Almost as though all of us who woke up on D3 and said "oh it's kenny obvs let's end this" should have stuck with our guns.

[Lowell]

@CW/Koba- no worries, I enjoyed playing with you and hope we meet again. This game brings together different playstyles in a way that can be interesting. A game with 14 Lowells would be kind of boring. "Let's kill this guy", "why?", "Eh he feels like scum", "aight that's fine whatever", etc.