Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)
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crypto Mafia Scum
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crypto
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crypto Mafia Scum
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crypto Mafia Scum
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In this thread most people are mafia. (Very possible that the mod simply made a typo in the rules, and that there are reallycharter wrote:oh wait, looks like people agree.thirteenscum.)
Meta me. It's my job. More addiction than job, actually. It's a work in progress.spamming the thread
Serious mode. I don't mean your idea is terrible. It's definitely not a bad idea, though I need to think about it more before I decide I like it or not. But that's not the point. The point is that everyone racing to a no-lynch without playing around at least for a little while is terrible. We should still play out the game like any other and poke around for suspects, for several reasons.- The obvious: For the mafia, misinformation or (more pertinently here) lack of information is key, whereas for the town, information is key. Racing to no-lynch with zero conversation on day one, and then—assuming the jailkeeper guesses wrong—losing a man on night 1 is like injecting night 0 into the game. It's unnecessary given that we have the power to talkand it puts us a night behind the mafia in terms of population.
- The less obvious (but still obvious): Conversation will help the cop narrow down investigation options. Even if one of our resident baddies does not slip up logically, gut reads based on a full day 1 are better than gut reads based on the confirmation phase.
- Going from obvious to semi-obvious here: Not racing to no-lynch gives us the time to make sure Charter-scum or bandwagon-scum is seeing something, i.e., a loophole, that bandwagon-town or Charter-town missed. Granted, it looks fine by me, but that's the point. Anyway, that's a side note.
- Given the enormous percentage of townies, the mafia mustmake a kill every night in order to stay in the game. If we approach day 1 conventionally and throw around theories, suspicions, etc., then we'll have some background info when day 2 dawns and some sorry corpse rolls around. Even taking kill motivation WIFOM into consideration, some info about interaction is better than none.
- I think I had some other relatively minor reasons, but I forgot them. Regardless, this last one is crucial:
Think about it. Sixteen players, thirteen of which are town. That's 81.25%. Unless my math's off (not my forte, honestly), mafia's quickest route to victory isScigatt wrote:You are a Cop.Every night you may choose(via PM) one person to investigate for alignment. Even if successful,you are not guaranteed to get accurate results. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.fiveconsecutive days with mis-lynches coupled withfiveconsecutive nights with successful kills, at which point three goons endgame three townies. That's one tall feat, and even then it's worst case scenario for the town—it'd require a massive meltdown, months of utterly demented scum hunting. And it's even tougher when you factor in no-lynches, which would, what, double the number of days it'd take?
Now, add in a cop and the mafia's job becomes all but impossible ("hard" being quite the understatement). Only 18.75% of the crew is scum, so it's less likely the cop will peg scum than in 25% scum setup, but even then the mere existence of a cop, especially when mafia doesn't even have a roleblocker, is devastating.
You know where this is going. The cop is not sane.
notsane. Specifically, paranoid or naive (or random, but that's bastardly).
If the cop is non-sane and if we no-lynch without doing much talking until, say, day three or four, then suddenly we don't have much breathing room. We've got our heads in the sand and we've gone all the way from 13–3 to 10– or 9–3, which is standard mini normal fare.Andwe've got however many investigation results that we can't make head or tail of.
Discuss.-
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Yikes, simulpost.
Mask, I more or less agree. One of the no-lynch zombies is probably scum.
Charter, was that vote serious or humorous/random?
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Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 75):
CSL - 2(mask man, hiphop)
crypto - 1(EtherealCookie)
mask man - 1(Sando)
X_~ - 1(crypto)
No Lynch - 3(SerialClergyman, CSL, Kaiveran)
hiphop - 1(charter)
Not Voting:le Chat, X_~, Staple, Team Aether, Kaiveran, bigmc109, Pomegranate, muh316
*Not guaranteed to be accurate.-
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Thanks to everyone who answered about experience. Important to know who knows what (needless to say). Mask's autobiography was a particularly fascinating factoid.
Good to see EtherealCookie (obvious scum) getting more widespread publicity. Post 88 is vaguely icky, too. One down, two to gooo!
SerialClergyman, what exactly do you think of Ethereal?
What? . . . No, the town gets what the most players want, and the most players want the action that is best supported with a clear logic. Our average scumbag would probably go with the flow for a little while to see how things unfold. Sort of like what you did. Some scum (usually ultra-confident pros) might take a proactive stance, but not most.hiphop wrote:I'd think if I were scum, I'd have at least something to say when someone suggests a no lynch. What is the difference between the sentence you wrote, and the sentence I wrote? Why should I say something, if I didn't care either way? If the town wanted it, the town would get it.
Why didn't you point out pros and cons before? Electing not to do so is anti-information. Plus, these two bits are both cons. Could you give a pro or two, for argument's sake?I saw several pros and cons both ways. One of the main ones is how would the cop know who to investigate. A good reason I didn't think of, until I read crypto's post (How long did it take you to write that?) is the town has an extra four people than a mini, which means the town has an extra two mislynches than a mini. Why waste them?
That isn't good enough, unfortunately. At this point in the game, keeping secrets "for the good of the town" is secondary to sharing information (unless of course you're outing role info).If I gave my pros and cons, without letting everybody decide their way, I would basically destroy all the pros for it, by creating discussion. Why would I want to do that, if I didn't care which way the town went?
Oh, and I've only played on this site. Two newbie games and two mini normals.
BMC, first off, I love you, and in case you didn't see the Mini 842 post-game comments, I don't really think you gave up.
Secondly, the cop may not be able to make head or tail of his sanity. If he's naive or paranoid, which I suspect he is, he's worthless, and wandering through three or four days only for the cop to claim all innocent or all guilty is not an exciting prospect. That said, I do think it may be a smart move to no-lynch unless we are really sure of someone's alignment, because we do have breathing room . . . and it is possible after all that the cop is sane (though I doubt it).
So I guess we're essentially in agreement. Discuss but don't lynch unless we're very confident that we're nailing scum.
So, yeah, Ethereal is scum. What else? . . . I'm puzzled by Muh's comment about how the least suspected townies are going to be night-killed. Isn't that how it always works? I can't tell if this is fishy or not. Strikes me as a weird thing to say, but not scummy.
Hiphop's explanations don't exactly scream town. Oh, that is an understatement on my part, FYI. Most of his reasoning is fine, but I really don't like that he chose not to post his thoughts earlier.
Obviously a lot of people still haven't posted in the thread after the confirmation stage. I saw X_~ on the list of online players last night, but he never even popped a random vote, which makes me itch.
Unvote: X_~.How 'bout dem rapid vote switches, Scigatt?
Vote: SerialClergyman.-
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I guess I'll just come out and say it—it looked to me like Serial was hesitantly busing Ethereal (seeing as we know Ethereal is scum).
Mask, I'm confused; are you saying you think Charter is scum, or just that we should be careful not to be sheep? Who or what is the "bad cookie"?
I was joking. I tend to jump around a lot early on.mask man wrote:Also note crypto's little comment on his voting speed. I'm not worried about it too much because he seems a little too good to fuck up like that.
I was only half serious . . . I do think you're the scummiest, though. I'll put on my serious hat now, seeing as we're progressing out of RVS so quickly. On the other hand, this quote is fueling the fire.EtherealCookie wrote:You're a bit too confident.
Being an ass has nothing to do with being scum.How is that admitting to be scum? Assuming makes an ass out of u and me.
In this game Ethereal posts broken rhetoric. Doesn't really seem to be invested in the game, or paying attention to it (see post 103). Of course, that says nothing of his alignment.
SerialClergyman, can you please do me a great big favor and answer any of the questions I've asked you?-
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Thanks for highlighting your EtherealCookie thing, Serial. I am blind.
Mask: See above.
I'm Dr. House, obviously. Also, my name bears resemblance to cryptic messages. We can infer that I'm always right about everything. If you have anything critical to say about me, shut up, because you are without a doubthiphop wrote:What makes you an expert on what scum would do?wrong.
Or you would have lain low for a moment. But, yeah, this is a good point.You said go with the flow. If that was the case, I would of voted no lynch.
Haha, he's just using the first post of each page to drop vote counts. It has nothing to do with rate of vote change.Did you not notice the awesome sig he gave me and you at the top of page 3 and 4 respectively?
Guys, time to cut the crap with the numbers. We can decide whether or not to lynch when we are ready to decide whether or not to lynch.
Speaking of which:Scigatt, is there a set deadline? If so, when?
But wait. You were scum in that game. Newbie lynch benefited you.bigmc109 wrote:(crypto knows what I'm talkin about....)
Oh, cool! That must mean you're town in this one. *mental note* Or were you really frustrated that game to, simply because it was a stupid move in general? Which means that your opinions in this game and in that one are consistent. Therefore, you are scum. Again.
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*falls asleep at keyboard*
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Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 150):
CSL - 1(mask man)
crypto - 1(EtherealCookie)
mask man - 1(Sando)
No Lynch - 1(CSL)
hiphop - 1(charter)
SerialClergyman - 1(crypto)
EtherealCookie - 2(SerialClergyman, hiphop)
Not Voting:le Chat, X_~, Staple, Team Aether, Kaiveran, bigmc109, Pomegranate, muh316
*Not guaranteed to be accurate.-
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Fixed.That. Because I don't follow the logic. At first I thought you were referring to the three people who voted no lynch without qualm, but those people were SerialClergyman, CSL, and Kaiveran. So, uh, explain please?
The three I listed were my top suspects—but I don't think all three of them are scum. I'm saying one of them must be.-
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Not different enough for you not to notice there were seven pages. Not different enough for me to notice you logging on twice over the course of two or three days without posting anything.X_~ wrote:I am new to this board and it's very different that vBulletin or iPb so yeah my bad.
Anyway, X_~ and Staple both come in looking like crap.-
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X_~, Staple, and le Chat, please list your top few suspects.
Hiphop may be overtaking Clergyman and Cookie as my top suspect. Or rather the most intriguing suspect. He's playing Captain Obvious a lot and . . . yeah, whatever. That said, I guess it's possible we've been making the mistake of reading his posts with our minds already made up that he's scum—tunnel vision / confirmation bias. I might have to reread to see if that's much of a possibility.
I still think Clergyman'sinitialattack on Cookie looked very much like hesitant distancing, as if Clergy saw how blatantly fishy Cookie looked and knew he should criticize it, but didn't want to commit to busing so early. Later on, Clergyman cracked down harder, which would go along with the theory that he realized his mistake—I think I actually mentioned it in one of my posts—and committed to distancing.
*shrug* Who cares.
Fixed.le Chat wrote:cryyypto, you got some explaining too doooo.
No, at some point I'll lose my patience and get mod-killed for flaming. Just watch me roll.BMC wrote:crypto - If he's scum, he's gonna live for a loooooong time.
Actually, I did a really quick meta (ongoing game so no detail, but I'm only talking about his posting style, so there'd be no detail anyway), and it looks like he does know what he's doing. Now, he still may be inexperienced, but he obviously isn't a total idiot.X_~ - I think we can chalk up his first few posts to just "being new".
Whatever. He's got my attention regardless.
Fixed, and I now agree 100%.mask man - I generally agree with him, but not much to say. That sig needs to be deleted, because it makes our eyes bleed.
Hmm. Cookie doesn't look like a newbie in the same way GreenDude did last game. Might try to explain why in another post, but trying to articulate it is giving me a headache.EtherealCookie - I think people are mistaking newbieness with scumminess here. Can you post some thoughts on other players, at least your top suspects?-
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Prove it, please, i.e., link me two examples.X_~ wrote:the "I guess this all makes sense" + bandwagon is scumtell.
They both went 'vote X, no explanation needed'
That's called RVS. You know what RVS is.-
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What? Proving people wrong is the whole point of Mafia.EC, seems REALLY scummy. His defenses suck, you would think he would be kind of upset that he is being attacked by pretty much everyone. Yet, EC tries to prove people wrong.
Not after one day. Not necessarily after two or three days, either.At least the cop would have an idea if the scans are accurate or not.
Are you scum trying to get an easy lynch on Cookie?
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Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 175):
CSL - 1(mask man)
crypto - 1(EtherealCookie)
mask man - 1(Sando)
No Lynch - 1(CSL)
hiphop - 1(charter)
SerialClergyman - 1(crypto)
EtherealCookie - 2(SerialClergyman, hiphop)
Staple - 1(le Chat)
muh316 - 1(X_~)
Not Voting:Staple, Team Aether, Kaiveran, bigmc109, Pomegranate, muh316
*Not guaranteed to be accurate.-
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You said, "'I guess this all makes sense' + bandwagon is scumtell." I want you to support it with two (or more) examples, preferably grounded in experience. Not complicated.
You can link wherever the hell you want.
Your reason for FOSing Cookie is awful. You expect him not to try to prove his attackers wrong?
Your FOS of me is also awful (blatant OMGUS).-
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You still haven't linked examples.
But you have made really crappy accusations against EC, Muh, and Hiphop. So that's a plus (at least from my point of view).
Heck, even your OMGUS FOS and vote came sooner than expected. Even your reason for your Muh vote was better than this.
So they deserve an FOS for being wrong or stupid? Are all stupid people scum?If I was in EC's place I would at least have FoS'ed back or just called you guys stupid for concentration on me and not the real scum.-
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X wrote:I ask myself, why is crypto logged in as hidden?In total there are68users online :: 22 Registered, 23 Hidden and 23 Guests
So, yeah, obviously all twenty-two hidden users are scum. Wait, no, that can't be right. BMC is also hidden. So he's scum. Same goes for all the other hidden accounts in this game.
Wait, no, that can't be right.
I've hidden my online status since the day I joined MS. This is my fifth game. I have yet to receive an anti-town role PM. Therefore . . .
Precisely.Crypto tries to attack everyone so that no one attacks him.
True story.BMC wrote:The man simply will not stop til you answer him.
Actually, I'm holding off on the vote because he's new. Which is always a bewildering pain in the ass to factor in.
Waiting on the links.-
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Okay. I seriously think that probably two (definitely at least one) of
you
Staple
SerialClergyman
X_~
Hiphop
are scum. I'm most suspicious of the last three on that list. I've jotted down most of my beefs with the five of you, but I can't be bothered to post those reasons right now unless you want to see them.-
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Hey, BMC, wanna see something cool? Lookee here.
1 scum read (Staple)hiphop wrote:bigmc109-Keeps saying he will scumhunt. Makes two or so posts, and goes back to the theory of no lynching. Pays more attention to theory than scumhunting so far.Indecisive, critical.
charter-Townie points for coming up with no discussion, helps cop not to get killed. Scum points because it hides the scum. There are more scum than the one cop. So it would help the scum more than the town.Sitting on fence, critical.
crypto- Still thinking about him. Clearly the backbone to this town.For the record, though, I find 99% accusations involving "setting up" forSitting on fence. Setting up for night kill?anythingfarfetched.[/color]
CSL-May need a replacement for him. He is going to be V/LA every weekday. Which means he will not post for five out of the seven days of the week. If he will only post on the weekend he can do better than one post.I agree, by the way.[/color]Null read, completely legit.
EtherealCookie-Clearly a newbie. Still want to see how he will post throughout the game.Null read, sitting on fence, etc.
Kaiveran- So far has been following the town, and talking about theory.Sitting on fence, vaguely accusatory.
le Chat-Opinions are ok. So far...Slightly pro-town, but . . . what the heck? Blaming le Chat in advance for future actions?
mask man- Still thinking about this guy too.Null read.
muh316- So far hasn't done any attacking or scumhunting.Sitting on fence, critical.
Pomegranate- Only real post at the moment was the last one, and the only part of that comment that wasn't following the town, was the last point. Pomegranate, you need to explain why on your last point.Accusatory, possibly a scum read, no real statement.
Sando-waiting for him to scumhunt.Critical, null read.
SerialClergyman-TV on ECAccusatory, no read.
Staple-extremely scummy even for a newbie. Hypocrite. Says he didn't say something because everything he wants to say has already been addressed, and yet he says his views anyways. Bad vibe on him so far.unvote
vote:StapleStrong scum read, critical, etc.
Team Aether-still waiting...Null read, legit.
X_~-He thinks EC is scum, just because he doesn't attack the people who attack him. Your argument against crypto imo is invalid. Why shouldn't a townie discredit an argument that is scummy? You should try attacking everybody that appears suspicious. You would be surprised how informative it is. Also until you provide those links, it will only be an opinion and not an experience like you claim.critical, either coaching or accusatory—not really a scum read, as far as I can tell.
0 town reads
1 very slight town read, which seems to include a preemptive accusation (le Chat)
1 very slight scum read (Pomegranate)
12 null reads, 8 of which are critical/accusatory
In other news:
EtherealCookie, I'm asking that you make a list of all the (active) players, comment briefly on them, and say whether you think they're town or scum if you have reads on them. Same goes for SerialClergyman, still.
I don't like the X_~ bandwagon. And I'm not convinced he isn't just inexperienced town. Also, X, 'preciate the link.
Unvote: X_~.
SerialClergyman continues to avoid this thread. Check this out:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/search.php?mode=results
Type in his name in the author search box and look at the titles of the threads he's posted in, and the timestamps. Clearly not V/LA.
Hiphop makes me itch, but SerialClergyman is makin' me crazeh and he's still scummy for earlier posts.Vote: SerialClergyman.
Delicious text wall.-
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I have a hard time believing that those are the only two players you think are worth commenting on. Two easy choices, plus you play the newbie card for them.Pomegranate wrote:2. I'm not liking Cookie or x_~ right now. I think it's possibly newbiness, but I feel that they may try to pass of genuine scummyness as newbiness, so I'm not going to put much stock in that.
Stating what's already been covered.3. I think we should play this game day out normally, whether or not no-lynch is a better idea- giving the scum extra information doesn't help us. When we're ready to end the day(, enough discussion or someone very scummy deserving to be lynched) we can decide if we think no-lynch is a better idea.
I know I and some others said something similar, but dumping "extremely scummy" on three or four players is icky. Since then SerialClergyman has participated plenty, and Muh has made some posts as well.4. I'm sure that there's at least one scum between the people who followed charter on the no-lynch bandwagon at the beginning of the day. It was extremely scummy.
Which leads me to my next point: zero real observations on anything that's occurred since page 3. That post I've quoted from is the only one with much substance at all. There's been a bucketload of stuff to comment on, too. Popping for two one-line posts—one of them a glib "Probably wait for 48 hours" and one of them a defense against SerialClergyman—without posting anything of consequence makes me go "Achoo!"-
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