Cereal Killers - Mini 1027 (Game Over)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

/confirm that Honey Nut Cheerio is awesome.

But seriously, /confirm.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Nine out of twelve people have confirmed. Consider SpyreX's confirmation an unofficial start to the game.

Vote: XScorpion

Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

OR ARE THEY?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You know a game is going to be entertaining when confirmation stage feels like a part of the game instead of just "waiting before the game starts".

I think they stopped selling Trix in Canada (at least, I can't find any T_T)

Sucks you can't be a consumer of a great product anymore. Oh well, may you serve him well in this game.

It's ok. Hiphop had horrible judgment in the last game I played with him too ^_^
Remember that hiphop?

Disagree with this statement. I've played one full game with him in Mini 985 and his judgement is definently far from horrible there. Mind linking to that game where he had "horrible" judgement?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Kirbyoshi: Nice to see you again.

Now all we need is for ConfidAnon to confirm and we'll know that everyone is playing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

There is definently an overreaction to Kirbyoshi's fake daykill attempt. I knew this wasn't serious, so I saw no point in making a negative reaction to it.

@Sawyer, charter: Why so serious?

However, xvart's reaction in particular bothers me. Usually, I consider people overreacting to fake daykill attempt a null tell, as it is common for people to overreact to them. However, I make an exception to this rule with xvart's comment regarding the fake daykill attempt. I find the below quote scummy:

I will be voting you after the next votecount if charter does not die.

When you go as far as to say you'll vote him after the next votecount if a person doesn't die due to a fake daykill atttempt, this is not something I like. I don't see how an obviously fake daykill attempt is scummy at all, let alone worthy of a vote. I will be keeping a close eye on you throughout this game.

ok, looking at the cc's. I think snap and toucan sam are most likely to be scum. What do you guys think?

Disagree. My choices for scums are The Trix Rabbit, Cap'n Crunch, and Lucky.

Why did none of you comment on how Robocopter voted himself?

That self-vote looks like a RVS self-vote to me. I don't see the necessity of commenting on Robocopter87's self-vote when it was clearly RVS-intended. Now if he were to make a serious self-vote, that would be a problem, but this isn't a serious vote, so yeah.

Charter and hiphop need to tone it down a few notches. You both are to jumpy.

As if xvart didn't just jump to the conclusion that Kirbyoshi's fake daykill attempt = vote if it didn't work?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Also Kirby: did you actually get told you were a dayvig, or were you just joking? (serious question)

Sounds a bit like rolefishing here. Why are you asking Kirbyoshi if he was a dayvig or not?

Voting for yourself in RVS isnt scummy.

Congratulation on the first quote that shamelessly parrots other people opinions. *sarcasm*
Going back to xvart's statement:

I will be voting you after the next votecount if charter does not die.

The votecount has already come by, charter is still alive, and you've made three posts so far after that votecount. Yet no vote on Kirbyoshi coming from you. Pretty interested in why you're still holding your vote, especially after you've explained a few times why you found Kirbyoshi's fake daykill attempt scummy.

Regarding xvart's response to me:

If Kirbyoshi is town, I can see town motivation for the fake daykill attempt. He probably would have done it to spark reactions and get discussion going. Because after all, discussion is pro-town and that's how we catch scum. Then again, I have only seen this happen once before and it's in an ongoing game and that person hasn't flipped yet, so I can't reveal any more details about it and that I don't have much experience with fake daykills attempt.

But your response to me seems town enough. Granted, I don't agree with the suspicion on Kirbyoshi yet, but I can understand why you would think this way.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Because I wanted to know if Kirby was actually told by the mod "you are a dayvig." If he was, then he's pretty obv. town.

Although in that case, it would have been nice to know before the mod posted the flavour.

We don't need to know Kirbyoshi's role now. Yes him saying that he was a dayvig and then proving his role would make him a confirmed townie (Unless the mod decided to be bastardly and give him an anti-town alignment), but that would also make him an obvious target for a NK. Had he answered your question, if he had answered "yes", he would likely face a NK. If he had answered "no", that just give scums one less possibility of a role that they have to speculate about and helps narrow down what role they are.

Only under rare circumstances should people claim outside of L-1 with threat of a lynch or during mass claim. This isn't one of those exceptions.

Actually, it's probably SSBF with his whole "There is definently an overreaction to Kirbyoshi's fake daykill attempt. I knew this wasn't serious, so I saw no point in making a negative reaction to it." speech.

Not seeing how that's enough to make me a worthy lynch candidate. I don't see how that makes Kirbyoshi scummy, let alone worthy of a vote. Sure I can understand xvart's reason, but I'm still not convinced that Kirbyoshi is scummy. If Kirbyoshi was serious about daykilling someone, he would have done it later in the game and someone he's convinced that person is scum. As a result, as I think it's a null/slight town tell, I will not fake a negative reaction just to blend in the crowd.

XScorpion, Sawyer, and SSBF, what is your opinion of the other two?

XScorpion: I find him slightly scummy. He's not 99% scum to me, but based off what we have, the best lynch. I agree that the role fishing is scummy and already explained why. When asked by Robocopter87 to explain why he's suspicious, XScorpion danced around that using RVS comments.

Sawyer: I agree that #2 is deflecting your question. However, judging by his last post, I disagree that he's entirely active lurking in this game. So I have a null read on him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

After recent events, I'm getting a pretty solid scum read on XScorpion. His defense has failed to convince me that he's town in any manner so far and they don't sound genuine. Adding gut in and he stands a good chance of being scum.

Also charter: Any particular reason you think Robocopter is town?

This question would be fine, except one problem.

I have yet to see a legitimate reason for you to vote Robocopter87. Unless you give us good reasons for voting Robocopter87, it holds no water.

I want you to outline your entire case on him.

I dunno, because Xvart said he would vote for Kirby if Kirby's daykill was fake? That seems like the right reason.

Parroting much? This is also hypocritical of you because you attacked charter for parroting me about rolefishing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

It's more a case of me voting him in RVS and then not being given a good reason to unvote him, and a better reason (OMGUS) to keep my vote where it is.

- What "good reason" is that? I don't see anything about his ISO before the "OMGUS" vote on you that can be considered a good reason. Is him unvoting his self-vote scummy? I really don't see how it is.

- With such a poorly fleshed-out case on Robocopter87, the OMGUS vote worries me a lot less then your play.

Very weak attempt at trying to convince me that Robocopter87 is scum. Is that seriously all you have?

How is me explaining the reasoning behind Sawyer's vote parroting, when I did not say that I agreed that his reasoning was valid or not?

Because you used a very similiar reason for why I called out xvart.

I dunno, because Xvart said he would vote for Kirby if Kirby's daykill was fake? That seems like the right reason.

When you go as far as to say you'll vote him after the next votecount if a person doesn't die due to a fake daykill atttempt, this is not something I like.

Now granted, this post is before Sawyer voted xvart, but I didn't like how you pratically used the exact same reason as mine later on to answer charter's question.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@xvart: Your response to my question is fair enough, when looking over it. However, we should all keep in mind that this is adversite as a "non-serious theme" in the sign-up thread, so it'll be especially difficult to differentiate between actual game-related/item-related flavor or just plain flavor.

A good reason for him being town? Yeah, me neither.
I think "being useless" is a great reason to vote for him though.

Yes he hasn't be super useful in this game, but then again, you can say the same thing for Zang and ConfidAnon. Being useless alone isn't a good enough reason on it's own to vote for him.

Do you think that Sawyer is voting for a different reason than you? What would that be?

Sawyer asked xvart why he would only vote Kirbyoshi if charter didn't die. I promptly stated that I didn't like how xvart was planning on voting Kirbyoshi simply due to the fake daykill incident.

This post by Sawyer contains a lot of his own reasons. Basically said if Kirbyoshi was performing a gambit, he would have been caught and it would most likely hurt him, so he see no reason for someone to even attempt that gambit then, let alone if it had likely negative effects on him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

The only concern I have about Xscorp is his rolefishing. Oh, and his and robocopter's back and forth about some other game was mildly annoying, but that doesn't tell me anything about alignment.

So his weak defense, parroting, and hypocrisy aren't something you should be concerned about?

---

I have a lot of problems with jenniwren's big post.

Your cases on charter, SpyreX, and Kirbyoshi are really, really bad. I see a lot of twisting words in your attack against them, especially the latter two. It's also full of misreps, which makes your case on them badly developed and makes you look scummier.

XScorp brought trouble on his own head by rolefishing/etc., as did Xvart by having an overreactive hissy fit, and early on, Robo by self-voting. If they aren't scum, then they have all put big fat targets on their heads with sloppy, sloppy, sloppy play, which makes it cake for the scum to mark them as easy mislynches. (It seems you've cleared Robo for the VI role, though, since you're tagging XScorp and building a case that includes his refusal to unvote Robo.)

And yet you vote for none of {XScorpion, xvart, Robocopter87}. You claim that they have very sloppy play, yet you call them "easy" mislynches. XScorpion has been on the site for over a year, so he can't be called an easy mislynch because he should be experienced at Mafia by now. xvart can be one hell of a good player on the site as well and difficult to catch as scum (IMO). And I have had previous experience with Robocopter87 and he doesn't play like a VI. None of them are particularly easy mislynches for the scums as far as I see.

Does this mean you know which three people you're going to make sure are proven town for easier NKs? Or are you speculating on

masons?

Slip?

Do you have any knowledge of a mason group? Because it looks like you do with this quote.

For fluffy posts,

bullying tactics

, and being obv-scum.

Bullying? How has charter gone as far as bullied anyone? If he was bullying, he would have been a lot more abusive. I don't see how charter was using bullying tactics at all.

All in all, a scummy post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Currently working up a full response to jenniwren. I should get it done by tomorrow. Meanwhile:

@XScorpion: Robocopter87 is finally contributing to the game. Unless you can give me a good reason why otherwise, your "Robo is useless!" comment is moot.

I'm actually more sure of Jenniwren at this point, but I really can't imagine XScorpion and Jenniwren not being scum together.

Do you have any evidence supporting that those two have links to each other?

You haven't given me any good reason to take my RVS vote off you. I've already said this to ssbf.

Robocopter87's recent post already proves that your argument about him being useless is moot. Is his analysis post completely useless? If so, that's a good reason to not be voting him.

---

Are you rolefishing? Tsk. Tsk.
I was speculating about possible motive for the comment Charter made about having identified three townies. XVart called him on it, too, and he justified it saying he was looking for scum teams. I offered another possible explanation for his rather useless announcement that he has found three townies.

To answer your question, I am not rolefishing. I found it odd that you would specifically bring up masons instead of just saying there was a three-person town group, which gave me the feeling that you had some sort of knowledge of a mason group. If that was the case, you would be setting yourself at a risk of being NK'd and no town player wants a power role to be killed off.

Also, regarding your argument, there are other possibilities regarding charter claiming to have three mysterious town reads. Like for example, if charter is scum, he may very well be a day role cop. But let's be honest here, that's one of just many possibilities of charter strange announcement reasons, so I'm not going to go on into all the other possibilities since I feel that it wouldn't be necessary anyway.

And why exactly would you bring that to attention?

The answer to your question is above.

Explain his play thus far then.

As of that post, I was null on him. I'm sure that people have different styles and I feel that Robocopter87 is one of those people. I wasn't prepared to call him scum yet, the only scummy thing he may have done was the OMGUS vote.

Now that has changed, I'm starting to lean town, since he is actually contributing to helping the town, actually defending himself, and he has made some good points that I agree with.

Because I don't see how answering an question about someone else's vote is a really solid parrotting scumtell. First of all, why is XScorp responsible for knowing the details of my vote and how can he possibly be scummy for not knowing? How else is he supposed to provide an answer to the question except use the context of the game?

1. Because your declaration that you would vote Kirbyoshi has been talked about a lot and he should know at least that.

2. It means that he was not reading the thread, which is known to be scummy.

3. This is a very good question. Right now, tbh, I haven't been able to formulate a decent answer to this question as I have no clue how to answer this. If I can ever answer it decently, I will immediately get back to you on this.

re: weak defence - I don't really think that having a weak defense of oneself is necessarily a scumtell either; not everyone is good at defending himself and I don't think that indicates alignment; especially when the cases are weak (in my opinion) to begin with.

By weak defense, I meant that his defense doesn't really look genuine to me, not to mention he continues to be scummy while defending himself IMO.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If I'm perfectly honest, I wish this day was over right now with a XScorpion lynch, because this massive swamp him and Robo are making is giving me a headache. (and when he flips scum we can lynch Jenniwren).

We haven't even heard from ConfidAnon yet, as he has not produced any substance we can analyze yet. We should not lynch until we get the chance to hear from everyone.

@SSBF: How is my play matching up with what you saw in megaman?

One thing, you tend to argue a lot in this game. This is also what I see in Mini 1008: Mega Man 1 Mafia. Both this game and Mini 1008: Mega Man 1 Mafia you are aggressive in (You were aggressive in attacking drmyshottyizsik Day 1 and aggressive in attacking Robocopter87 today). You also started out scummy from my perspective in both games.

^^^ I love the blatant chainsaw.

How is that blatant chainsaw defemse? All he asked was a question about why charter was not voting jenniwren if he was more sure that she was scum then XScorpion.

More later. Still need to get that jenniwren's response done. Will be back later once I finish catching up on a game that I just replaced in.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Robocopter87: Since XScorpion latest big post blasted your scum read off him completely, who is your top suspect now?

---

On that note, what do you think of how Robo and charter having not read the entire thread?

To be honest I will have to agree that it is scummy. I disliked how charter said that he did not read jenniwren's latest wall (Referring to her response against me). This seems intentional as although it was mostly directed at me, it did show that she wanted charter dead. Robocopter87 saying that he hasn't read jenniwren's same post is also scummy.

How did you know it wasn't serious? I can see thinking it was a joke because it was so early, but this post implies more assurance than an assumption like that.

It would make absolutely no sense for a day vig to intentionally kill a person Day 1. I see no possible town motivation for a day vig to intentionally kill off a person Day 1, which they should use later on to kill scums, not just as a RVS joke. Given that the RVS Daykill was fake, I don't see how Kirbyoshi would have serious motivation for doing so.

hiphop: Hiphop overreacted to me at the beginning in the same way as Charter overreacted to Robo's self vote, but in this case, hiphop is definite scum in Robo's eyes.

Robocopter87 said hiphop was leaning scum. He did not say he was definite scum. Where did he say that?

Its a decent case. I don't have anything to respond to.

Nothing to say in your defense? Seriously, you aren't even going to try?

---

@xvart: Will try to get back at you later.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@charter: Why did you originally suspect hiphop?

---

I definitely think that scum have more of a reason to not read, because they aren't genuinely scumhunting and don't need the information as much as town; however, I can't discount the fact that lazy town might be just as likely to not read.

Yes but even lazy townies have to read the thread anyway. They might be lazy, but they have the same goal as an active townie, get rid of scums. To do that, you have to read the thread, otherwise, you cannot catch scums. I think scums are more likely to not read in this case then lazy townies. Although I will agree that scums have more of a reason to not read. This should also count as a response to this:

I agree that not reading the thread is anti-town, but not necessarily scummy. I think there's been a couple people say the same thing (but I might be mixing a couple games now).

Your response to the first quote and the third quote are good enough. Looking forward to your full thoughts on the fourth response.

---

It's hyperbole. I'm speaking relatively. Didn't you notice how he only had two scumreads?

Yes I did. Not sure why it's that scummy as having two solid scum reads are better then one and then mostly tunneling on that person.

I can definitely say that hiphop as been on my list of scum.

Explain your case on him in greater details. It definently doesn't convince me that hiphop is scum.

No. I'm not going to defend myself from a decent case that changed my read of a player.

Even if it did change your read of a player, that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to defend yourself. Your read on a player may change, but when people attack you, backing down under pressure is something you should not be doing.

Just what his scumbuddy would say to distance himself from him! IGMEOY

I am totally not seeing how they are distancing from each other at all. You provide absolutely no evidence on why they are distancing from each other. Why are the distancing from each other? Please provide evidence on this, otherwise, I'm calling BS.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Not liking Robocopter87.

When I attacked him in my last post, he completely ignores it. I asked him to explain his case on hiphop in greater details, he ignored it. I asked for evidence on hiphop distancing from zang, he doesn't explain why.

Also,

unvote

Right now, I believe XScorpion's one-shot vigilante claim, which looks legit to me.

@charter (#249): You choose to defend hiphop's weakest part of his case on you. Why have you ignored the other parts of his case?

Accusation of parroting about him rolefishing? Check.

And what is wrong with XScorpion accusing charter of a legitimate scum tell he commited (Yes, charter actually did parrot me with the rolefishing argument).

So...remind me why you think Charter is town?

Tbqh, I don't really have a town read on him. Thought his play early on seems town to me, I noticed that he's getting scummier and scummier. Not exactly a lynch I would cry over. My reason for being fine with a charter's lynch is mostly based off other people reasonings, although if I find something I don't like about charter that isn't a parrot off other people, I will let you know.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

How and why can his claim look legit? Why should this save him from a lynch? Why does this erase his obvscumness? I don't think this should save him from the noose.

- As said before, it does not prove his alignment. However, it is possible to prove his role and that is evidence that support being being town. It makes it much less likely for XScorpion to be mafia or even 3rd Party. A third-party with a kill ability will probably have more then one kill during the Night and I don't see a Serial Killer having just one shot. Furthermore, if we lynch him today and he does flip one-shot vigilante, then we have lost a town power role, setting the town back more then necessary. We should give XScorpion one chance to prove his role.

- It doesn't, but if he is able to prove his claim, I will not be voting him unless he acts so incredibly scummy, that it is enough to make him likely scum.

Also i take it that you are not going to claim, thereby making you a hypocrite. Why is xscorp special in the fact that that he has to claim because it is the townie thing to do, yet you don't?

QFT!

Not only is charter's unwillingness to claim hypocritical, he also realize if he's a town power role, by us lynching him, he will be putting town at a severe disadvantage later on and we cannot afford to lynch town power roles that can aid us later on.

This may be rolefishing but I think it's to obvious to be scummy. I think it's more scummy to ask more questions that aren't as straight forward than just asking "are you a vig?"

Kirbyoshi's daykill comment on charter was obviously a fake. I see no pro-town motivation for a person to deliberately ask if he's a role or not. This can be used by scum as a process of elmination on what role a person is and they can get rid of a town asset that way.

Yes

Vote: Xscorpian

So you're not willing to give XScorpion's claim a chance and run the risk of killing a town power role?

you'd see why I don't even bother defending myself.

For someone who said he doesn't even bother to defend himself, you have been doing a lot of this recently.

---

Glad to see that Robocopter87 is finally responding to my points. Now I'll respond back:

Well, it really is like Xscorp to a lesser extent. His entrance to the game. it was unclear whether he was serious or not. He was attacking the (T_T) harshly and it looked like a genuine attack on Page One. Hes contributed a little more but I still have some suspicion of him. Hope that clears that up.

- I don't see how stuff from RVS is going to make hiphop look scummy.

- I really don't see how starting off a game seriously is scummy. A minority may prefer to do this.

- I don't see how two posts regarding the (T_T) discussion is consider a harsh attack by any means. Misguided, yes, but not really that harsh.

Listen. I am not defending because he is right. My case on Xscorp is almost the SAME exact thing he has on me. It makes no sense to defend from it. That would be like taking out my own case on him. I know it looks like I'm backing down but really I am defending. but not myself, but my case. The only difference from Xscorp and Me has been mentioned by myself. I put my case up first. So please, by not defending, I am keeping my case as valid.

All right, I can see your point here.

Hiphop obv was riding what I said. It was plainly obvious that Zang was going to get some heat eventually if not soon. I was suspicious of Zang slightly but not enough to get my vote(if I had one ) because I don't take Lurking as a scumtell as I have said before. Hiphop did vote Zang with no backing besides the lurking. His vote wasn't right. I guess it isn't distancing then but it makes HipHop scummy still.

This would be fine and all, but you immediately took back what you said about the distancing. This gives me the feeling that you don't believe what you say.

---

It's so hard to confirm, and he wastes his shot even if we do force him to kill someone toNight, and have it be the person we say.

Night 1: Two kills happen. One looks like a vig shot, another looks like a Mafia shot.

Night 2: Only one shot happens, It's likely a Mafia shot.

Not seeing how it's so difficult to confirm XScorpion's role this way.

Vote: charter

I officially tipped when he blatantly refused to claim. I don't see any pro-town motivation for refusing to claim. Adding that with a very convincing case on charter and I think he's scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What's my pro scum motivation to not claim? I can easily make something up that will save me for the day.

By not claiming at L-1 when threat of a lynch, if you are a town power role, you would put us in an even worse situation then with just lynching a Vanilla Townie. Also, for scum motivation, by you not claiming at L-1 and you getting lynched, town will lose information that they would normally get if a person claims.

So who should we put on the possible vig target list?

If charter flips scum, XScorpion should surely vig SpyreX, who's defended charter up the wall and all around town. Similar things happened in Mini 985 where he defended charter to death. He and charter were scum.

If charter flips town, I suggest vigging either Robocopter87 or ConfidAnon. I personally am suspicious of Robocopter87 and ConfidAnon doesn't look like he'll be helping town anytime soon.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Hopefully, I'll be able to address Zang's counter response in the morning before the deadline, although I wouldn't mind if we lynched then, preferably on charter.

With a deadline approaching in less then twenty-fourh hours, a no lynch is very well possible. We need to avoid that at all cost. Here are my likely final thoughts of the day:

- If there's one thing we can agree on, it's that a no lynch would be terrible. As much as it would suck to lynch a town read, it is better then nothing as we can at least analyze his/her suspects and the bandwagon.

- The lynches looks like to be one of charter and jenniwren. A charter's lynch would be great as he is likely scum. However, a jenniwren's lynch is not a lynch I would be comfortable with. jenniwren's play IMO has been pro-town recently. She is scum hunting to the very best of her ability, proving that she cares about the town, and is willing to do anything to get rid of them. Looking back at my case on her, it wasn't a good case after all. jenniwren looks like an easy mislynch for the scums.

- To go further into my dislike of the jenniwren's lynch wagon, I don't like how any of the players approached a vote on jenniwren. charter's case on jenniwren looked decent at first, but later on, it is less and less convincing to me that jenniwren is scum. Kirbyoshi's and Zang's hop on the jenniwren's bandwagon were really bad. I'm not sure why one post that they consider scummy is enough for them to vote jenniwren. Other then that, it looks like they're blindly following charter without adding much material to the jenniwren's case.

- Xscorpion, if for some reasons that jenniwren is lynched today and flips town, make sure to vig charter.

- I will be around during the deadline to switch votes if necessary. Although I would absolutely hate to vote/hammer jenniwren, if it is absolutely needed to prevent a "No Lynch", I will do it. But not under any other circumstances as I have a town read on her.

---

DO NOT VIG ME.

Just don't. ESPECIALLY, if your One-Shot.

Just DONT.

This is coming from a person who said he's better off being NK'd then lynched.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I didn't know it was fake because kirby sounded serious and others reacted seriously.

Kirbyoshi made it clear that he wasn't serious about the day vig shot. Now tell me that:

Also, Daykill: charter
Last time I played with you was Second String Muppets. You were so confusing...

Looks even remotely serious.

I wrote that before i read his claim. But yes, If everybody thought that way than all mafia would have to do is claim vig or doc and they would be saved from being lynched. Its also one shot and with that shot hed probably end up killing town.

As xvart said before, performing a vigilante claim as a scum is an exceptionally difficult thing to do, especially as a one-shot vigilante. It makes no sense for a mafia to claim a vigilante, especially if only one kill occured during the Night.

Also, a one-shot vigilante role is provable. If two kills occur during Night 1, then we can safely assume that XScorpion was a one-shot killing role. If only one kill occur during Night 1, we can consider XScorpion for the lynch then.

If charter happens to flips town: hiphop, zang,

yourself (if you can)

, or me (from everyone else's point of view).
If charter flips scum: hiphop, SpyreX, or Kirby (based on his last post).

If XScorpion truly is a one-shot vigilante and is capable of killing himself, this suggestion to where he should vig himself if charter flips town makes no sense to me. As we understand, we can prove XScorpion's claim in a different way other then a kill on himself.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Has anyone noticed that SpyreX has completely avoided this question by hiphop back in early Day 1?:

Your buddying again. Do you do that in every game or just when you are scum?

I thought this was a good question to ask. This would have helped indicate if SpyreX buddy other people as part of his meta or if he does it as scum. I don't see a good reason for why he avoided this question as we could gain something from it.

---

OHH LOOK CHARTER WAS TOWN SHOCK AND DOUBLE AWE.

Really? charter's town flip caught me and a few other people's surprise. Not everyone expected him to flip town.

Well, XScorp did Lie. But maybe there is a Mafia Roleblocker. You don't know why he didn't get a kill in. Or if that is his kill and the Mafia were blocked. Give him a chance to say something.

This posts sounds contradictory to me. You're saying that XScorpion did lie. But then you want to give XScorpion a chance to say something. You seemed pretty confident in the first sentence that XScoprion was lying to me.

SpyreX's obvtown read on someone so scummy is very disheartening to me. I also am not inclined to believe that this and this were genuine posts because of this very reasoning.

I have to agree with you here. If SpyreX is scum, he could have massively buddied up with charter to gain town creds for when charter flipped town.

Yes.

ConfidAnon?

VOTE: confirdanon

Do something.

I don't like this vote. Yes ConfidAnon needs to post more and yes it does annoy me, but lack of contents alone is not enough to warrant a vote for Day 2, especially since there are people who are being actively scummy in this game. Furthermore, what happened to your suspicion on hiphop, who you considered your top suspect back in Day 1?

---

Could someone link me to a game where a one-shot vig was roleblocked, but could use his one-shot the following night confirmed by the mod? I have not seen an example of this happening. If XScorpion is Mafia, he could be using this excuse so he won't be accounted for the lack of a second NK. If XScorpion is a multi-shot/full blown Serial Killer, his first shot could have been role blocked, but he could use this oppertunity to put off his second kill until closer to endgame to where he can win in his favor.

XScorpion isn't looking too good in my eyes, but neither are SpyreX and Robocopter87. Of those, I think Robocopter87 is the scummiest.

Vote: Robocopter87

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Do I buddy? Is that the question I 'dodged'?

Go look it up. Meta is ridiculous and I'm not going to help but OHH SNAP the results will be: inconclusive!

1. Yes, that was the question you intentionally dodged.

2. Granted, meta alone shouldn't determind a person's alignment in this game, but that doesn't mean they won't be helpful in any shape or form. While some players do change play styles from game to game which prevent the uses of meta, most players play similarly as scum or town in at least a way. Town will be able to spot the similarity of the play they're generating and compare it to past town/scum games and it can either help soildify the town/scum reads they have.

However I am surprised at ssbf, that he is is trusting xscorp so easily. Wasn't in the last game, it was scum that claimed rb?

I am not trusting XScorpion's roleblock as liberally as you think. I am also awared based off of our last game together that scum can be claim roleblocked on Night Actions. As a matter of fact, I even mentioned that I wasn't getting good vibes off of him.

This part bugs me a lot. Let's see if I can explain it. You call Robo out and say he should not be voting confid because there are people that are more scummy. This of course bounces him in front of the line as more scummy? Really?

Let's try again. Let's say there is a scale of 1 to 5 of scumminess. There is someone that is a 4. Now someone votes someone that is not on the scale. This makes them a 5? How? What does that make you? Aren't you doing the same thing that he is doing sort of.

It's a lot more then Robocopter87 voting for a person for not producing contents when there are people who've commited more serious scum tells. I'm also on him for not believing what he's saying, calling people scummy over trivial things that doesn't matter much, originally refusing to defend himself, and asking XScorpion not to shoot him,

yet

he suggested that he's best off being NK'd then lynched. Also, if you would look at my last post, I attacked him for contradicting himself.

A person can be four on the scumminess scale and still be the most suspicious person in the game from my perspective. If a person isn't at five, should he not receive a vote from me if you think he has the best chance of flipping scum anyway? Unless that person were to make one super-scummy post or a series of scummy posts over time, a scummy post alone should not place a person at five in the scumminess scale. Furthermore, if I had a scale of scummiess from one to five, one to five without decimals, that's too much black and white and Mafia is a game of all shades of gray. Also, let's say there are two people in the scummiess scale with decimals to the tenth. Person #1 is 4.3 in the scummiest scale while Person #2 is 4.7 at the scummiest scale. Which person will I vote?

Also, you're claiming that I am doing the same thing as Robocopter87. Robocopter87 produce a lot of excess fluff in this game, that is a similar reason to ConfidAnon not producing contents. The difference here is that Robocopter87 is voting him mainly for that while I have a variety of reasons for voting Robocopter87.

Because going "Jenni is town." and "SpyreX always buddies" (HINT: I TOLD YOU CHUCKLEHEADS WHY HE IS TOWN) in the SAME POST bespeaks some tech going on.

hiphop is considering you buddying other people a null tell based off experience with you in previous games. Not sure why him saying you always buddy people and that's it's a null tell to him should be considered scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Interesting choice of words. The kind of words that should, in fact, have a vote attached to them. Or at minimum some heat behind them. But, nope, nothing.

I'm assuming by that statement, you're referring to me getting some heat based off those statements, correct? If so, it's a bit too early to say that a particular person should be getting more attention, especially since this post I'm quoting is right after my latest post.

Which is just fantastic and awesome. Robo (you know that guy you've got a wasted vote on) and Charter are/were town through and through. Being able to see and comment thusly on that isn't "buddying" and if it was well put that scarlet B on me because I'll take it to the bank every day of the week.

1. I haven't seen a well-supported argument for Robocopter87 being town in this game. Show me evidence or you are just making white noise.

2. So you're saying that your mass defending of charter isn't buddying him?

As for "dodging" this is an awesome catchup post that ignores jenni's declaration of not posting at all. Well played.

The difference between this circumstance and your circumstance is this:

I was not asked to comment in the jenniwren's "not going to post" until later incident. On the other hand, hiphop asked you a question and you avoided it. I'm not going to go further into this since I've already received satisfactory explanations.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

First off, thank you Benmage and Equinox for replacing. Looking forward to both of you posting contents.

---

@Robocopter87: Please answer my question here:

Furthermore, what happened to your suspicion on hiphop, who you considered your top suspect back in Day 1?

Also, since ConfidAnon just got replaced by Benmage, do you still think that the slot is vote-worthy, especially given that Benmage promised more activity for the slot coming this Monday?

---

If you're going to make an assumation try making one thats rooted in the meaning of the words presented:

You chose a very specific set of words that have a very specific meaning - saying that I 'intentionally' dodged the question implies, directly, that I would have some reason to dodge it.

However, YOUR WORDS were not backed with any heat. Or a vote. Or anything. They're just words that instead of being an offense are just sitting there begging for something to happen.

1. You already gave reasons for not answering the questions. You said it was a poor meta question and that hiphop already answered it in the same post that he asked it, that's a reason for intentionally dodging the question.

2. Technically, I have already given you a bit of heat when saying you weren't looking too good in my first post of Day 2, which indicates that I suspect you. However, going as far as to vote you for it would be unecessary since I only found it, at the time, mildly scummy, not OMG MUST LYNCH scummy.

The hell do I need to give a 'well-supported' argument for someone being town. I was fairly confident (and would be sure with an XScorp flip) and then starting out today worried about lylo is a pretty good kicker.

1. If you truly think a person under suspicious should not be lynched for today, you should at least give a decent explanation on why you find a person scummy. Otherwise, I am unconvinced.

Also noticed something, if you thought charter was worthy of being defended a lot Day 1, why aren't you doing to same to Robocopter87?

2. Robocopter87's worry about being in lylo in Day 2 is a bit paranoid. If he was worried about us being in Lylo/Mylo during Day 3 and we haven't caught any scums by then, that would be understandable. But the chances of us being in Lylo/Mylo during Day 2 is pretty low.

Stating my town reads isn't buddying. 'Buddying', the type that actually matters, is a type of sheeping - running hard and fast on someone and then using them as the rationale for decisions. Show me doing that. Go for it. Playing WITH my town reads != buddying and even then its a moot argument because you've still not had the stones to actually call me scum.

You explicitly stated that charter was your #1 town read and defended him throughout most of Day 1. You attempted to undermine the case against charter throughout most of Day 1 as well.

However, If you're going to play that route what up with the 180 on jenni landing on "ohh jenni is town and if we lynch jenni and she is town shoot charter".

Which is even more awesome with:

Yea. On top of apples != b52 bombers you've went ahead and called this the satisfactory explanation for "I'm not going to play the game."

Nice misrep there. I never said that jenniwren gave a satisfactory explanation. I said that hiphop basically gave me the answer to his question regarding you buddying other people was a satisfactory explantion.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Alright, I still have suspicion for HipHop but I'm not really feeling a scummy feeling towards him anymore. I just can't see him being scum.

More contradictions. You say that you still have suspicion on hiphop, which means that you think he could be scum. Then you change the story around in the same post by saying you don't think he's scummy and that you can't see him being scum. Which is it? Is he scummy or is he not?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Tepid, tepid. We'll see if you turn it up a notch when you've gotta explain some flips.

I will if Robocopter87 flips scum and/or you get scummier in this game. Yes I actually do think you and Robocopter87 have a connection.

What?

No, seriously, what?

Are you actually saying that I didn't explain why XScorp was scummy yesterday (and no kill today sure doesn't change that).

Are you saying that I didn't, flat out, say we're not lynching robocopter today? Seriously

I'm not saying that you didn't explain why you found XScorpion scummy nor am I saying that you haven't said that we shouldn't lynch Robocopter87 today, I know you have done both of these things. What I am trying to say is this:

You say that Robocopter87 is town. Given that I suspect Robocopter87 the most, I don't see how Robocopter87 is currently exhibiting town behavior. Unlike with charter, you have given no explanation or evidence supporting that he's town. Therefore, I am asking you to provide explanations on why you think Robocopter87 is town.

But as I said before, you haven't explained why Robocopter87 is town. If you are not going to explain why he's town, why was charter worthy of being defended in the magnitude you defeneded him, but that you haven't at least explained why Robocopter87 is town?

OHH LOOK ITS HURF DURF MISREP TIME

So, you're saying that you've had a satisfactory answer to the part of that which you've been going over? Or somehow between 375 and 377 there's a shocking revelation about my nefarious dodging and what not?

No. I want this explained with the simple words if "satisfactory explanations" is in fact referring to hiphop's post and not me calling you out for avoiding jenni's meltdown all together.

I have already receive satisfactory explanation as soon as hiphop gave some meta of his own regarding you.

Also, for explanation on why I was referring to hiphop post and not jenniwren's post.

#360, I asked you to answer the meta question. #363, hiphop said that he's sure that you buddy every game. Both games you were of opposite alignment and both games you buddied hard. At #377, I said on the other hand, hiphop asked you a question and you avoided it and that I was not going further into this since I've already received satisfactory explanation for if you always buddy regardless of alignment.

By satisfactory explanation, I was meaning that hiphop gave sufficent meta explanation. jenniwren's not posting debacle had no part in this.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

VOTE COUNT

6 to lynch
Benmage (1) hiphop
Xscorpion (1) Kirbyoshi
Robocopter87 (1) Super Smash Bros. Fan
jenniwren (1) SpyreX
SpyreX (1) Xscorpion
hiphop (1) xvart

Not voting (4) Benmage, Equinox, jenniwren, Robocopter87

Loving our ability to focus on lynching one player.

Is that all you have to say? That you criticize us for not having a bandwagon yet? If it was fourty-eight hours or less until the deadline, I would agree as we run the risk of scrambling for a lynch. But we have four and a half days left until a lynch, so no need to worry that much about it yet. Furthermore, it's IIOA, all you said that you disliked how we weren't focusing on fewer players for lynches. The rest is what we already know (Except that XScorpion is voting you now).

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

No.

You have no scum read.

Give me a second to think....

How could you not have any scum reads in this game? There has been 400 posts made in this game and still no scum reads? If you're town, you would have at least had one person you thought is likely to be scum. There is no excuse for not having any scum reads in this game.

Yes he is scummy. No I don't think he is scum.

Not liking this answer. A scummy player is someone who is more likely to be scum then town. By you saying you find hiphop scummy, but not thinking he's scum, not only are you contradicting yourself even more, you make no logical sense here.

In short, Robocopter87 needs to die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Soo... you replied to me saying I dodged the question D1 (that he, himself, answered) and then went on with this whole sphiel when I in 361 answered it AND he answered it in 363 for... birds

And AGAIN you're asking me why robocopter is town AND still didn't even pretend to address jenni's not posting debacle even now after that's went away?

Well, we'll go ahead and remove one of those factors right here - with the caveat that Robo NEEDS TO GET HIS HEAD BACK IN THE GAME MAN

One word and a number: ISO 25.

The secret sauce in there? Well, it wouldn't be a secret if I told you. But its there. In fact, I want you to reread it and then tell me what you think I'm talking about or opt to say how I'm sooo bad and I protect alll the scummiest towns blah blah.

There's two other SECRET MAGIC BULLETS that if I have to pull them out. Like I said, Robo is not getting lynched today. Its just not happening.

If you fight me on this, and he flips town, you're dead. Someone will take up the call even if you chuckleheads kill me.

1. You did not answer the meta question in #361 at all. You said to me "Go look it up". Not an answer to my meta question.

2. I'll be honest, you are putting too much stock on the jenniwren's "not posting" situation. That's not saying we shouldn't talk about it, but I believe you are blowing it out of proportion in terms of importance.

3. Good, you've finally given a reason for why we shouldn't lynch Robocopter87. Congratulation, you are 50% of the way. To accomplish the other 50%, you must make your argument for Robocopter87-town convincing. Which unfortunently, you have not fufilled yet. While ISO: 25 is a good post, it does not overwhelm his overall scumminess in this game. That's not to say he hasn't done anything pro-town, ISO: 25 was a good post, but when looking at it in terms of quality and quantity, Robocopter87's scummy posts outweights the towny posts he makes.

4. Please reveal those two "magic bullets for why Robocopter87 is town" soon as right now, a Robocopter87 lynch is the most likely for today. I'd love to hear a convincing argument for Robocopter87 being town. As said before, ISO: 25 was a good post, but a post back in Day 1 will not convince me of his innocent, especially when his play other then that post has been scummy enough to earn my vote on him.

5. Not afraid of dying if it means it will catch scum.

Benmage: XScorp claimed he was roleblocked.

Just because a person claims roleblock doesn't mean that they have been roleblocked. You have to look at the possibility of them fake claiming that as scum and weigh in their play as well to see if it's more indicative of town or as scum.

Bump...deadline's approaching.

Yeah, the deadline is apporching fast. With less then fourty-eight hours left in the day, we need to get a lynch going and we don't want to scramble to get one. I have been pushing for Robocopter87's lynch since the beginning of today and have been expressing suspicion on him since mid-day 1. Unless he has a provable role claim that is more likely to come out of a townie then scum or if he performs obvious town play, he should be today's lynch.

Wanna restate Robo case, anyone?

1. Claims to have no scum reads. Self-explanatory. This alone should have him hanging.

2. Very inconsistent in this game. He contradicts himself a lot during Day 2, which has been the majority of my attack on him. Inconsistency is scummy and Robocopter87 racks up a lot of scum points for this.

3. Flip-flops on hiphop. First off during Day 2, he said hiphop is leaning scum. When I asked him for his suspects, he said hiphop is suspicious, but not scummy, This makes no sense to me as suspicious and scummy interchange with each other. Then he change the story up to "hiphop is scummy, but not scum.". If you find a person scummy, that means you think the person is more likely to be scum then town. Now he's saying he's acted bad, but more likely to be a VI. I find these events to be very scummy.

4. A lot of one-liners/fluff. A few of his posts has been good, but a lot of it are excess fluff that don't need to be there or one-liners that would be suited better grouped in a larger post. No need for frequent one sentence per post to contribute to the game. This is also scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I am promising content to you people, "Cases, suspects, etc." as soon as I get the time. Tonight or Tomorrow Night I don't know which but I'll try to fit it in somehow.

Thanks for the patience.

If you are going to produce contents, please do it tonight. There is no way to post tomorrow night as by then, the deadline would have been reached.

---

Wrong. I gave the answer. That it would be inconclusive. Because meta is retarded and most things I do I do as both alignments wooosh.

Meta is not always inconclusive. As a matter of fact, they can be used to supplement a case if you see a series of actions that person A is doing that he also did as scum in the previous game and the other way, so it can help determine a person to be town or scum.

I also realized that you said something similar to my argument here in your Wiki. And you say meta is retartded.

Adrent proponent of a mislynch then goes "welll I need to readjust better stop posting" and I'm putting too much stock in it. Yeehaw.

The point is that jenniwren "not posting" situation alone should not be the be-all, end-all of scum tells. Only the strongest of scum tells deserve that title, like for example, an obvious scum slip/claiming scum.

You missed the point in 25. Not surprisingly.

ISO 25 has one of those screaming bullet town intents in it: he realizes people are going to focus on the words about them and actively wants them to view the whole thing. ON TOP, he wants his case to be actively reviewed.

Town.

Wouldn't people focusing on the words about them and actively want them to view the whole thing/actively reviewed be something that everyone who makes cases expect to get? Not sure how that this case is that significantly different from other cases made.

Also, that post alone does not make Robocopter87 town. Even if it was good (Which it was, I'll give you that), it is not to exceed the scumminess of Robocopter87's play when looking at it overall.

1.) The edit. That is NOT something scum would risk ever. Ever. Its not a "new" thing or not - its pretty clear after any number of games editing posts MOST OFTEN is death. To make it look right? No way in hell.

Really disagree with this. I don't see how this is a town tell. The only reason why he was able to edit his post is because he is modding a game here at Coney Island. Also, scum motivations is very well possible for editing a post.

Let's say Person A a current mod of Coney Island called Game 1 and playing a game that is in the same section of the forum called Game 2. He is scum in Game 2. Wanting to avoid a lynch/having to fakeclaim and with no one looking, he quickly get rid of the slip by editing it. Therefore, no one finds out and he doesn't get in trouble game-wise or get punished by the mod.

Editing a post can have scum motivation and can benefit them if they can edit the information that could expose them as scum. By doing this, they can destory information that they create without the player/mod even knowing it.

2.) The switch on XScorp. Before the claim. There was an honest reevaluation of the case he was running and scum would be bullheaded enough to ride it out to AT LEAST get the claim.

Hardly what I consider a "magic bullet on why Robocopter87 is town". I didn't find the post scummy, but I don't see any super townie intentions either. So really, more of a null tell to me.

OHh martyr. Except for that whole if he's town like he's going to be business.

Robocopter is a bad lynch.

XScorp is also a bad lynch.

Now, its not a shining paragon of townitude HOWEVER there's something to be said about this that I really didn't think needed to be spelled out but lets go ahead.

I have given my arguments for why Robocopter87 is likely scum and if we can't lynch him, XScorpion is an okay lynch as well. So far, I have not seen a good argument for why Robocopter87 is town; your "magic bullets" explanation doesn't convince me.

We have a watcher here. Considering the absolute liklihood of a protective role existing in some fashion the other PR's are going to be watered down. Unless the argument is scum are 1-shots (which doesn't make a lot of sense considering the watcher already) or XScorp happened to randomly claim one-shot vig and have one flip everything points to the claim fitting the setup.

XScorpion's claim is provable, but it does not prove alignment. If the role is proven, then I will agree that XScorpion being mafia is very unlikely, but that does not rule out the possibility of him being a SK. One-shot SK seems a bit low, but not completely out of realm, especially given that this is a twelve player set-up.

---

This will be my last major post of today. Deadline for this game is at 2:00 PM CST tomorrow and by then, I will be at school, so I will not be able to access the site by the time deadline hits. I also can't access it at school at all because the school computers blocks this site.

The only possible time I can access this game closer to the deadline is morning before school and even then, it will be just to switch my vote to prevent a No Lynch because I don't have time to give substantial thoughts during the morning. Maybe a quick post IF possible, but don't expect anything fancy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Quick post before day ends. Will need to catch up on another game, although I will keep a tab for this to switch votes to prevent a No Lynch if possible. I won't have time to respond to SpyreX's points during the limited timeframe, thought, so I will get to that post first thing in Day 3.

Curious to note- What do you and SSBF willing to prove with your arguments back and forth? Because it appears that town is not listening. Or are you just trying to convince yourselves?

At first, I thought it was going to be a simple disagreement with him. However, this has evolved into a much larger scale that has taken up a considerable part of the game. I think of this argument not of town vs. town, but scum vs. town, with me being town and SpyreX being scum. I think SpyreX is scummier when coming off this.

I can't claim.

Not because its against the rules but because then I would be useless.

I am a protective role.

Contradiction here. You say you can't claim, yet you claim that you're a protective role. I highly doubt claiming is against the rules, so you not full claiming is a bunch of baloney.

I'm doing horrible in this game.

Useless AtE here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

First off, I apoligize for not posting yesterday. I had a post coming up, but it got deleted and since I had (And still have) a ton of homework to catch up on, I did not have time to make another one.

I am a Vanilla Townie. No one can dislike my O's but they can't kill scum.

Kirbyoshi, you're next.

---

Responding to SpyreX's response to me that isn't outdated due to the flips.

Meta. Is. Retarded. The desire to supplement a case means the case is there regardless. Going OHH meta does nothing and its a waste of time in 9 out of 10 cases and IF I HAD MY DRUTHERS I'd make a dayvig that could only kill people with the word 'meta' in their posts.

Fair enough. While I still do disagree with meta being useless in almost all cases, I can see where you are coming from.

Like saying you have no scum reads? A statement that, *gasp*, makes little sense because of the nature of the blowback it gets?

Is that the strongest of scum tells?

Pushing through a mislynch and then slinking into the shadows IS SCUMMY. I don't know where you're gettign this be-all, end-all of scum tells attempt at painting this like something else but tech work there.

Saying that you don't have a scum read is surely a big scum tell. Scums do not need scum reads because they already have the information that tells them who is part of there alignment and who isn't. Pushing a mislynch and slinking into the shadow is bad, but not giving out scum reads with sufficent explanation is much worse.

Props on "Ohh that's a good post but he's still scum".

Just because a person makes a good post does not mean that the person cannot be scum. When I do reads, I look at the content and see if it resembles more of a scum play or more of a town play. To do this, I look at the magnitude and frequency of the scum/town tells and determind my read from there. If the person is the scummiest, I will vote for that person unless someone else scummier comes up.

---

Oops.
I shot him.

Absolutely hated this choice of kill. xvart was declared a town read by a majority of people and was a valueable asset to town. With your kill, you wasted it on someone that could have continued to help the town. The wording of this post doesn't give me good feelings either.

Seeing as how no one gave me suggestions for who to shoot, I took this as one. I agreed with Equinox that the hammer seemed scummy.

This explanation sucks. I don't see how xvart's hammer was scummy enough to warrant a vig kill. Had he quick hammered someone at the beginning of yesterday, then this would be understandable. But we were litterally hours away from the deadline and No Lynching then would have been horrible. Also, xvart did express suspicion on Robocopter87 before the deadline so he still hammered one of his suspects.

---

Regarding hiphop's #500: It doesn't convince me that XScorpion can't be scum, but it does open up a possibility of XScorpion-town. This also helps me agree with hiphop in where we should No Lynch.

Regarding lynching: I don't think we should lynch today. If we are going to lynch today, as today is probably Mylo, we should be absolutely confident that a person will flip scum. Another reason why I want to No Lynch today is because even if we hit scum today, we're going to have to No Lynch anyway. Assuming a three scums set-up, if no lynch today, tomorrow, given a three scums set-up, we have a 42.50% chance of hitting scum. Lynching scum today and no lynching tomorrow will give us a 40.00% chance of hitting scum the following day.

Basically, I want town to have the best chance of winning this game and lynching scum tomorrow will give us the best chance at us lynching scum.

After everyone has claimed, I will give out my reads on everyone based on what has happened and the claims.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SpyreX: Why do you think we should not talk? We are claiming but waiting for a claim isn't the only thing that should happen during massclaim. I don't see how we need to stop all discussion just so massclaim happens.

If you guys would have preferred another target maybe you should have gave suggestions like on day 1. Oops nope, no one did that, so suck it.

Not buying this explanation here. Even without us giving you suggestions,

it was clear

that there were better vig targets then xvart. Yet you're using xvart's hammer on Robocopter87 Day 2 as a reason to vig him. This isn't a satisfying explanation to me and I don't think the hammer was all the scummy anyway. Because:

1. We were near the deadline, litterally hours from facing a No Lynching. No Lynching would have been a horrible thing Day 2.

2. xvart was already suspecting Robocopter87. So if you can't get your primary suspect lynch, why not pick your alternate suspect instead? And he already explained why Robocopter87 was scummy.

Those two reasons are enough to make me think the hammer was justified.

And if you can't see how I am

already 100% confirmed town

, stop posting.

I'll claim first.

VT.

I'm calling BS on this statement. You claim to be 100% confirmed town, yet your roleclaim is a Vanilla Townie claim. You cannot prove your role or your alignment with a Vanilla Townie claim.

Please explain why you are 100% confirmed town. As far as I'm concern, you are not confirmed townie.

SSBF, please pick someone else, if there's anyone else who hasn't claimed yet.

Everyone else has claimed.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Really sorry about not posting yesterday. I was about to make a big post yesterday, but it got deleted and I had to make a post for another game I'm dying in soon. Rebuttal to jenniwren's case against me, analysis, etc. will come later today.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Part I: Jenniwren's Case Against Me

Read posts 127, 131, and 157. He kept promising a long case against me until the end of the day rolled around (post 183 was the last time), and finally votes Charter after saying I am town (post 317).

First off, I promised a response, not a large case against you. Those are different. Secondly, I believe you are town because I believe my Day 1 case on you didn't hold water so I don't see the purpose of persuding a person I think is town.

SSBF reappeared after the charter hammer to give advice for the vig (post 336). At one point, in 317, SSBF tells XScorp to vig charter if I flip town. However, he never tells XScorp to vig me if Charter flips town. That's been bothering me since Charter's flip.

I never asked XScorpion to vig you because regardless of charter's flip, I had a town read on you and your scum hunting on charter looks genuine to me instead of scum looking to cash in on a lynch to look good.

Notice how similar the hiphop's quote in your post 572 is to what SSBF said in 317. How all of a sudden I am obv-town? They don't explain that other than saying I am just new and scumhunting the best that I can.

Reading the hiphop's quote in SpyreX's #572, I do not see how my #317 is similar to what hiphop said. In the quote, hiphop said that he agreed that flavor should not affect the outcome of the game. In my #317, I talked about my dislike of your wagon, why I think you're town, and that a no lynch Day 1 would suck and that I would be around to switch votes if necessary.

c) SSBF and hiphop were directing the vig kills and at that point I was thinking maybe they weren't such the nice guys after all

The reason why I attempted to direct XScorpion's kill is because I want town to be in the best shape possible coming out of the night. That way, had XScorpion's "vig" gone through, we may have very well hit scum.

---

Part II: Respoding to posts:

Here's my reasoning to oppose a no lynch. A strong town voice will be killed. Making it easier for the scum to swindle the game in lylo.

While losing a strong town is certainly a set-back, mislynching today will almost certainly result in a scum win and we cannot risk that happening. No Lynch is the best course of action because the likelihood of us hitting scum will be greater then.

Additionally, there's a huge piece of moddery that plays into the ruleset and both of them being replaced instead of dead - assuming a 3 person scumteam (which I am) at that point both of them being modkilled would have been game.

I disagree that ConfidAnon/Sawyer nearly facing a mod-kill is alignment-indicated. Even if both were mod-killed and flipped town, assuming a three-scum set-up, we would be in an 5 town - 3 scums situation which would not result in a scum win.

Nope. No way with the way this game was going both would be rolling busses on him. Additionally, I'm thinking its a 1 PR (maaybe 2 but probably not) 2 goon setup and that it is not a one-shot. (3/12 with a town dispersal makes sense) - which means XS's D1 claim holds a lot more weight than others.

I honestly do not see how XScorpion's claim hold water. To me, there are more evidence disproving his role claim and making his scum alignment being that more likely:

1. There was only one kill on Night 1 and Night 2. If there was two kill on either Night 1 or Night 2 (Not both), then I wouldn't be advocating for his lynch tomorrow (Because I do believe we should No Lynch today) and have him as a top lynch candidate, because that would at least prove a second killing role was out there and would be evidence that XScorpion is not scum. But due to a lack of a second kill on a Night, I believe he is scum.

2. He claim to use his one-shot vig on xvart: I don't see a town vig (Especially not a one-shot town vig) killing one of the most valueable players in the game who made strong scum hunting effort and was on many people's town list is a good idea for a town vig. XScorpion's reason? His hammer on Robocopter87. I don't see how that hammer was scummy. He was hammering a person he heavily suspected and it was litterally hours away from the deadline. This further supports my theory that xvart wasn't a vig kill, but a mafia kill.

Also, not seeing how scum team role speculation is going to convince me that XScorpion is town.

---

III: Current thoughts on players:

First off, these are the remaining players:

Benmage

- Possible Scum

hiphop

- Neutral

jenniwren

- Town

Kirbyoshi

- Scum

Equinox

- Town

SpyreX

- Possible Scum

Super Smash Bros. Fan

- Town

XScorpion

- Scum

hiphop's play looked very town to me Day 1 and Day 2 with him scum hunting a lot, being outspoken about his opinions, etc. However, I am starting to doubt hiphop's alignment. SpyreX's #572, he brings up a couple of good points that point toward hiphop scum. One was that his flavor claim affects the game and the other one was that nurse is a passive role. These reasons make sense to me and open up the possibility of hiphop-scum, but I am still undecided on him.

ConfidAnon did next to nothing in this game with his only contributation being his unfinished catch-up post, which had some parrots in it so he was neutral-scummy to me. Benmage's Day 2 play gave me a town vibe from him thought, but I do find his Day 3 play questionable. His "I'm 100% confirmed town" stances is scummy because there is no way to prove a Vanilla Townie claim or the person's alignment. I also don't like his suggestion that we should lynch today either.* A scum wants to achieve a quick victory as soon as possible and the best way to achieve that is by lynching today instead of us waiting until tomorrow in where we have a better chance of finding scums. If he is a Vanilla Townie, then what is already a big risk to take will be even bigger today. Those two things put the slot down as a possible scum.

^{*: Yes I understand that there are other people voting, but I find Benmage's proposal and how he approached it the lynch today idea to be the one that stands out the most, plus his reasons for lynching are not very good.}

While I did think jenniwren's Day 1 play was very pro-town, I will agree with SpyreX that she most certainly slacked off big time Day 2. I didn't like how she changed her play style so sharply. Day 1, she was aggressive, confident, and attacked her suspects with mostly good cases. Day 2, she took a mostly casual approach to the situation and didn't contribute nearly as much. However, jenniwren's Day 1 play is enough to give me a slight town read on her.

Kirbyoshi's play has been neutral to me throughout most of this game. He contributes and makes some good points, but not spectactularly scummy to me. However, I find his Sane Gun Owner claim to be completely out of this world and it makes no sense to me. It also doesn't give me good vibes about him. I wouldn't mind a Kirbyoshi's lynch tomorrow.

Day 2, SpyreX was my second lynch candidate and the majority of his case on me is weak and I have noticed some things that bother me about him. However, I am willing to give his claim the benefit of a doubt and I do believe it more then some others claims out there *coughcough XScorpion/Kirbyoshi coughcough*. Still suspicious of him, although not as much.

Equinox's play indicates town to me. Sawyer was a slight town read, but Equinox's play solidfy that town read. I like how he actively looks for scums and observe the situation very well. The majority of his posts also sounds genuine to me and town-like.

And of course you already know why I think XScorpion is the most likely scum.

With that being said, I don't think Equinox is scum and to me, jenniwren is more likely town then scum. So I'm looking at these for the remaining scums:

{XScorpion, Kirbyoshi, Benmage, SpyreX, hiphop}

I will be voting for a No Lynch tomorrow (By tomorrow I mean Sunday). After Saturday, we probably have enough to No Lynch and then lynch scum tomorrow. Not voting now to prevent scums from cutting off discussions.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Wait, I just had an idea that can help clear up this sharp division between all of us players.

Today or tomorrow, we should do a listing of our top three suspects. Our top suspect would receive three points, our second suspect would receive two points, and third suspect one point. You may list a fourth suspect if you wish, but it will only count as .5 of a point Once everyone has given thoughts in this, I will tally up how often a person is called suspicious and how heavily it is. The one that is most heavily suspected will be lynched that day barring anything that makes someone else scummier to other people.

hiphop, SpyreX, remember this idea from Mini 985: Madness at Night? The listing idea worked out very well for the town and helped catch scums both time it was attempted. So I can consider this an effecient scum hunting strategy to make as town.

I'll start:
1st: XScorpion +3
2nd: Kirbyoshi +2
3rd: Benmage +1
4th: SpyreX +.5

According to Day 3, this is what I've seen people suspect so far (Correct me if I'm wrong about something):

Super Smash Bros. Fan: XScorpion (+3), Kirbyoshi (+2), Benmage (+1), SpyreX (+.5)
SpyreX: hiphop (+3), jenniwren (+2), Super Smash Bros. Fan (+1)
Equinox: XScorpion (+3), jenniwren (+2), hiphop (+1)
XScorpion: Kirbyoshi (+3), Benmage (+2), ??? (+1)
Benmage: XScorpion (+3), hiphop (+2), ??? (+1)
jenniwren: ??? (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)
Kirbyoshi: XScorpion (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)
hiphop: ??? (+3), ??? (+2), ??? (+1)

So far that's:
Equinox: 0
SpyreX: .5
Super Smash Bros. Fan: 1
Benmage: 3
jenniwren: 4
Kirbyoshi: 5
hiphop: 6
XScorpion: 12

I am not voting no lynch.

Then give us a good reason why we shouldn't lynch today, especially since lynching incorrectly today will result in the town losing the game?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Disregarding the simple fact that Equinox and Benmage have been playing town I'll call out your garbagio with this:

10 alive day 2. Normally, BaM does modkill at lynch. So, 9 at lynch.

9 - 2 - 1 kill = 6 alive. 3 scum is game. "OHH NOES THAT ASSUMES A MISLYNCH D2". Yea, it does. So, yes, 3 town deaths there would have been game. Again, it is moot because they're not scum based on their play but hay don't let that stop you.

I'm skipping the pair of XSCORP IS SCUM YO because its the same old song and dance.

I spot some problems with your argument. First one is that you are taking a mislynch into account. My point was not that two townies mod-kill and a mislynch would cause a scum win, but that two townies being mod-kill would not cause a town loss. With you taking into account the mislynch, it invalidates your argument. Also, we were at ten players before the near-modkills of ConfidAnon/Sawyer happened. Why did you count an extra death into the mix?

"I totally don't want to bus my partner yo I mean SpyreX is right but SpyreX is still scum hurfhurf."

Yes you did explain a few things about hiphop that could point toward him as scum, but I'm going to need more then that to convince me to vote him. In the end, unless it's something major like a "Guilty" cop investigation, scummy behavior will be the main reason I vote for a person. Also, scummy people can still make pro-town points, so being scummy =/= you are super-scummy in every post, just that I think that your post have more scummy contents then contents that resemble those of a townie.

"I'm totally not going to look at the context of why ben said that or why that makes little sense as a scum because of just that reason but keep on keepin on"

I already have looked at the context of Benmage's post. I don't see town motivations for why a person would declare himself to be 100% confirmed townie unless they have been confirmed that alignment in some way. I also see more scum motivations for pushing for a lynch today because a scum has an oppertunity to go for a quick win today by mislynching. Not only will a No Lynch prevent that from happening, it will also makes them more likely to be caught because there are less people around which means they will almost certainly gain more attention then they would with eight players.

"SpyreX, the scum, I'm going to agree with some more and still not try to throw that bus because the day 1 play (hint: it wasn't good) is enough to disregard doing nothing d2"

I am not disregarding things from Day 2. It clearly has effected my read on jenniwren in a negative fashion. However, the reason why it's still a slight town read is because IMO, jenniwren's towny acts is more numerous then her scummy acts.

"While I will allow no speculation about setup to argue other people I have to keep some options open so even though I've got nothing on kirby I've already cleared both my partners thus"

I've already said something about Kirbyoshi that bothers me. The very likely fake-claim is enough for me to put him on my scum list, that is something on Kirbyoshi I don't like. Also, when I did I say I would not allow speculation about set-up?

"SpyreX = OMGUS"

Wrong, it is not OMGUS. I have been suspecting you since the beginning of Day 2 and have explained why your attacks on me is weak and why some of your actions have been scummy.

Vote: No Lynch

I think we've gotten enough information for today and that No Lynch is the best course of action. I am not going to risk a mislynch today while we can lynch tomorrow and have a better chance of lynching scums.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Everyone, we need to be careful with our votes today. One voting mistake can cause a scum victory, the last thing we want to happen with the town. So let's think this clearly. This is why I will refrain from voting until everyone has spoken.

- My reads from yesterday have not changed. Today's lynch should be either XScorpion or Kirbyoshi (I have a preference on XScorpion), although I am okay with a SpyreX/Benmage lynch and if we must, hiphop. Barring jenniwren playing scummy today, I will not be voting for her today as she is my only town read thus far.

- SpyreX choosing to not reveal if he used his Night Actions or not is not giving me good feelings here. If he used it during the Night, then he should at least reveal who he jailed.

- The idea that I have will be carrying on to today (If I've made any mistakes, tell me and I will fix it).

Benmage:

hiphop (+3), XScorpion (+2), Kirbyoshi (+1), SpyreX (+.5)

hiphop:

SpyreX (+3), Benmage (+2), Kirbyoshi (+1), XScorpion (+.5)

jenniwren:

XScorpion (+3), Kirbyoshi (+2), SpyreX (+1), hiphop (+.5)

Kirbyoshi:

jenniwren (+3), Benmage (+2), XScorpion (+1), ???

Super Smash Bros. Fan:

XScorpion (+3), Kirbyoshi (+2), SpyreX (+1), Benmage (+.5)

SpyreX:

hiphop (+3), jenniwren (+2), Super Smash Bros. Fan (+1), ???

XScorpion:

Kirbyoshi (+3), Benmage (+2), SpyreX (+1), ???

Super Smash Bros. Fan: 1
jenniwren: 5
Benmage: 6.5
SpyreX: 6.5
hiphop: 6.5
Kirbyoshi: 9
XScorpion: 9.5

There are some things I want to talk about regarding this list:

Unless anyone else wants to make changes, XScorpion looks like the lynch for today. It's also my favorite lynch candidate for today and I am pretty confident he will not flip town. As soon as everyone else posts, I will place a vote down for XScorpion.

Despite no scum flips, I think the most plausible scum team is XScorpion/Kirbyoshi/SpyreX. Unless SpyreX claims that he used his jailing ability, a scum flip of both players is going to make SpyreX look very bad. I haven't seen a legitimate reason for why he believes Xscorpion/Kirbyoshi's claim to be true and he's the only person not to suspect both people. That's not to say that those are without any doubts the scum, but I think we have a good shot in hitting at least two scums with this group and possibly all three. If both XScorpion/Kirbyoshi flips town and SpyreX hasn't proven his role ability, SpyreX is very likely scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

But basically ssbf want to be careful wit his voting.... prefers Kirby or xscorp and hip-hop least of all. He knows we are in Lylo. He's okay with me or spyrex. In order for this game not to be over both spryex and I have to be scum or hip hop has to be scum. Otherwise if one of us was town and hip hop was town, (hip hop being he's least favorite lynch) the game would be over. Therefore for him to be down with either / both Kirby and xscorp before spy/me means he is acknowledging a mislynch.

So I'm down to ask either ssbf or Kirby a question but I need us both to be present when I ask it. Because it needs answering without others posting.

Regarding your response to me:

- The reason why I am being careful with my vote is because we have not heard from everyone yet {XScorpion has still not spoken yet}. This is to prevent a quick mislynch by the scums before the person even had a chance to speak. Unless we have something huge like a cop receiving a Guilty on investigations, I will not be making a serious vote for a person that has not spoken on the day yet. That being said, the moment XScorpion make a post that is analyzable, I will be voting for him as I do think his lynch gives us the best chance of hitting scum.

- Re-reading my ISO Day 3 and Day 4, I do not see where I said "I know we're in Mylo/Lylo". While I am treating today as Lylo (As should everyone else), I cannot go as far as to say that

I

know we're at Lylo. Only Mafia knows that information and as town, I have no knowledge of it.

- One of you/SpyreX and hiphop being town in this game would not automatically equal in a scum win situation. I put Kirbyoshi as a second suspect due to his ridiciously unbelieveable claim I just cannot see out of a townie.

- The reason why I want to lynch XScorpion and Kirbyoshi before you two is because I am more confident in my scum reads on those two players then on you/SpyreX. I also think that if XScorpion/Kirbyoshi flip scums, I will be able to use my system in my last post to analyze people's suspects and look for connections. Not acknowleding a mislynch.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@hiphop:

SSbf think about this. There is 4 to lynch.
If there are 3 scum then we are in lylo
Spyrex and ben are voting me. This means that if only one of them are scum, then the other 2 would jump on and hammer if I am not scum. Correct? If not why not? Forget everything else. If there are 3 scum left then Spyrex and Ben must be scum, or I am scum, otherwise scum are just stupid. Explain to me if this is wrong.

I will admit that you did bring up a good point there, but there's something I want to bring up:

Benmage and SpyreX and one of them being town/scum is possible. Just because we haven't seen a quick lynch yet doesn't mean that you can't be lynch right this minute by scums without anyone looking. If one of Benmage/SpyreX is town, scums could be using you as a eventual lynch when no one else is looking.

However is there are only 2 scum. Then we are not in lylo, so scum would not out themselves so easily, and we can afford another mis-lynch. However that is not the safe way to play,because we still have a mislynch if that were the case, while with three scum we do not. The only way we can know that there is less than 3 scum is if we mis-lynch town today and still be alive tomorrow. The safe way to play is to assume that there are three scum left in that case read the above paragraph.

I am operating in the same fashion as well. Which is why I am not planning on voting yet, I want everyone to at least speak before we vote. Hearing everyone's opinion during Lylo is crucial and I do not want to lynch until then with the exceptions being a cop receiving a guilty on a person or if it's hours away from the deadline and we need to get a lynch going.

So which do you believe. Spyrex and Ben, or I am scum. Make your choice.

If I had to choose, I would say SpyreX and Benmage being scum partners. Despite me thinking that one of them being town is possible (I can't see both of them being town unless you flip scum), them being scum partner is a more likely scenario. If one of them is lynched and flips scum, I'll need to look at the interactions between those two.

Finally- what is this thing that you might lynch your 4th suspect? If there were 4 scum the game would be over. So at most there can only be 3 scum. If there are only 3 scum why would you be willing to lynch your 4th suspect? The chances of you believing that any person past your 3rd is scum is bizarre. That is why I will only lynch Spyrex, Benmage, and Kirby. Lynching town is as good as no-lynching. It doesn't help now. I will not put my vote on any of the other 4. Period. There is no-way any of them could be scum. If anyone is willing to put their vote on of my three suspects my vote will follow.

I 95% certain that all three scums are in {XScorpion, Kirbyoshi, SpyreX, Benmage} with the 5% being you as one of the scums. The reason why I say I might lynch my fourth suspect if it comes to it is because while Benmage isn't as high as my other three suspects, I still suspect him and I believe his lynch will reflect considerably on SpyreX. Then again, I have stronger scum reads on Kirbyoshi and XScorpion and they can also reflect negatively on SpyreX.

---

That said. Stop being dumb SSBF(or kirby if you are town) w.t.f do you want to gain from Xscorp comment who you think is scum. Zilch.

1. I want to see where he stands in terms of suspicion and I want him to be outspoken in his suspicion. If I see anything but pro-town motivation in his posts, I will be voting him because I feel more strongly about him being scum then you/hiphop.

---

Lemme ask the entire game this: Could you see my claim coming from scum? It seems to me to imply, "Go ahead, visit me if you're town, all you cops and trackers and whatnot, because you'll live. It's the scum that die, which is why I wanted to keep my role a secret."

Yes, I can see it coming from a scum. I don't see how even a one-shot Sane Gun Owner who gets killed by scums can easily be a town role. It makes little sense for a mod to give town that much of an advantage and even if one of the claim vig roles is true, I can't see two town vig-like role being in the game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why can't Spy, hiphop, and Ben all be scum? And this is a ruse to "clear" either one of them or two of them?

Benmage, SpyreX suspects hiphop while hiphop suspects Benmage and SpyreX indicating that they're certain that the person they suspect is scum. A SpyreX scum flip would mostly clear hiphop while a hiphop flip would mostly clear SpyreX. It does not clear Benmage in either situation as he is a claimed Vanilla Townie, which cannot be proven.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'll make a more substantial post later on tonight, but I do want to say this:

I know that I'm town and given that SpyreX claimed to be a jail breaker, I can see these being two major possibilities:

1. SpyreX lied about his role and is scum. Or...

2. SpyreX is town jail keeper, but scum decided to lead him in the wrong direction with deciding to no kill that night.

Either way, I have zero intentions of letting my guards down and letting scum win this.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

With XScorpion's hammer on me, scum has officially won this game. More comments later after the game is officially declared over.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Pretty frustrated about the outcome of this game. I didn't post yesterday partly because of bad Internet connection and partly because I didn't want to go yapping on about how town should have considered what I say.

Nevertheless, I will say that I was mostly pleased with my play here. Even with my lynch in this game, I played a lot better then in Mini 985: Madness at Night where I acted really scummy and lurked under pressure (Something I'm trying to recitify with in my play). I scum hunted a lot and my final two choices for scums were correct. Although to be fair, my play was a bit too passive on Day 3 and Day 4.

xvart brings up a very good point. If a person in a likely Mylo situation said that he jailed a person and there wasn't a kill, don't just vote for the person who the so-called jailer claimed the jail on. I know I won't be doing that.

Looking forward to playing with you people again! This was a great group.