Newbie 1013(GAME OVER!|Scum win!)

[AClockworkMelon]

Hey Robot you misspelled "Goon" in my PM.

[AClockworkMelon]

VOTE: Doubtful

[AClockworkMelon]

Fucking hell, Ellibereth. You could have at least let us play a few pages.

[AClockworkMelon]

I might as well post my intro:

Hi. I'm AClockworkMelon, commonly known as Clockwork, Melon and ACM. I'm a 20-year old writer living in Phoenix, AZ. In my spare time I play RPGs, tabletop wargames, video games and Mafia. This is my seventh game on MafiaScum.net and as such I'm one of the game's SEs (trust me, I'm undeserving of the title). I look forward to playing with all of you.

[AClockworkMelon]

You sir are a creep, for most of everything you list is true for me as well >___>

[AClockworkMelon]

You misspelled "There is nothing wrong with being a hardcore gamer!"

[AClockworkMelon]

OK I'm done.

[AClockworkMelon]

@MAD - You were town last game. Assuming for the sake of argument that you're scum this time, how will your play differ?

[AClockworkMelon]

2... because the others do seem to be trying to "prank" me nevertheless. (Others = AClockworkMelon + Ellibereth)

I'm not trying to prank you. I voted for you more or less arbitrarily. Ellibereth's reasoning is his own.

[AClockworkMelon]

The people who haven't posted really need to.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm so town that I must be scum. Makes sense to me.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm so town that I must be scum. Makes sense to me.

it makes perfect sense to me.

That's what I said.

[AClockworkMelon]

Just say WIFOM.

Wait, so you're telling me that innocent behavior isn't evidence of guilt?

Well fuck. Excuse me, I've got some calls to the Arizona District Attorney to make.

[AClockworkMelon]

I do intend to post more this game. Ha ha ha ha who do I think I'm kidding?

Ha ha ha ha. That's funny.

UNVOTE: Doubtful
VOTE: MAD

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm such a trendsetter.

[AClockworkMelon]

What?

[AClockworkMelon]

Mike, MAD, Park and Dout: Why the hell would you guys sign up for a game that you don't intend to play?

[AClockworkMelon]

Is Doubt a noob? If so his not caring about being at L-2 indicates either a.) towniness or b.) he's not paying attention to the game. If he's not a noob then it doesn't indicate anything.

[AClockworkMelon]

And by noob I mean virgin. All it takes is one game played to realize that the best reaction to votes is no reaction.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm not "so sure". That's just what it indicates. He could very well be in the minority of noobs that're capable of intuiting proper gameplay. Every time that anyone says that something is towny or scummy you should just assume it has that disclaimer.

[AClockworkMelon]

Another Arizonan?

I'm relaxed. Rest assured I was completely calm when I voted for you. Your excuses, while reassuring, won't remove the vote I have on you. Content might.

[AClockworkMelon]

I feel bad for Robo. I predict he's going to be busy looking for replacements in the coming days.

[AClockworkMelon]

Btw guys, an apology for not posting doesn't count as posting.

[AClockworkMelon]

Your vicious criticism over people who aren't participating ten times every single hour like you is just a stupid blubbering to my eyes.

The funny English of your mouth fall like ineffective wave against my manly chest.

Or he could not have felt any pressure from those votes cuz he knew there was a "plan" to quickly rush a person to L-1 for the lulz

I'm not following that plan.

@Ant - Explain #78.

@Ellibereth - Explain #83.

[AClockworkMelon]

Hide stuff from town = anti-town unless you are PR.

False.

I've dealt with "Oooh I'm mysterious!" shit before and even if it isn't anti-town (which I'm not convinced that it's not) it's certainly annoying. Being difficult isn't helpful to the town at all. It's just going to make players less likely to listen to you if and when you do make a case (assuming you're town).

Clocky, I was replying to 82...

I'm aware. What I meant was, "in what way are you being helpful?"

[AClockworkMelon]

So what you mean is that your posts aren't actually useful at all? Great.

[AClockworkMelon]

eh elli will pick up on the posting im sure he did last game

and weather you think hes l2 voting is sparking a reaction or not i'm pretty sure elli got what he was looking for

This is an interesting post.

[AClockworkMelon]

i do want to point out that like the first game i was in with acm when he was down hes a tad bit defensive just want to point that out

Are you suggesting that I've been defensive this game?

[AClockworkMelon]

Cite?

[AClockworkMelon]

An example of me behaving defensively.

[AClockworkMelon]

L'orange seems to be acting the same as last game. Mostly commenting on other people's arguments without making any of his own.

Please cite an argument that you've made.

Also, you seem kind of snippy this game. Are you in a bad mood?

Nope. Read every post of mine as if I were smiling. That'll give you a good sense of what the tone of my posts is supposed to be.

[AClockworkMelon]

*in a mafiascum sense only of course, I have touched girlie bits and all that

So what you're saying is that you

haven't

touched girlie bits?

[AClockworkMelon]

Is your reasoning for voting for Park identical to Mike's?

[AClockworkMelon]

Is anyone's reasoning

ever

identical to anyone else's?

Yes.

[AClockworkMelon]

why arent you answering civils questions ACM?

What are you talking about?

[AClockworkMelon]

What are

you

talking about? I understood what you said, but what is that the because to? What questions am I not answering?

[AClockworkMelon]

1.) OK, I get what you were saying now.
2.) There you go, Holycon.
3.) I guess. He probably isn't paying attention to the thread.

[AClockworkMelon]

The fact that he wasn't directing any questions at me didn't tip you off?

This opportunism doesn't seem like you from the other games we've played.

[AClockworkMelon]

L'orange seems to be acting the same as last game. Mostly commenting on other people's arguments without making any of his own.

Please cite an argument that you've made.

Well, I'm suspicious of you for a couple reasons:

1) Your posts, while frequent, don't seem to contain much "content"
2) Holycon's right, you are acting defensive. I find that scummish
3) Your caustic playstyle is not very helpful for the town. And scum don't want to help town at all

I don't want to vote for you yet, because I think that would put you at L-1 (too lazy to check right now) and that's too dangerous with the lurkers around, but right now I'm essentially voting for you. (I guess that's FOS?)

That wasn't my question. Yes, you've now made an argument. The point was that you were accusing me of having not many any arguments despite having not done so yourself. Do you hold other players to a higher standard than you hold yourself?

[AClockworkMelon]

What do you think of Ellibereth accusing you without any real reasons other than one post he might have felt as "off" in terms of judging players?

Ellibereth reminds me of another player; Netopalis. They're both ICs who seem to like the idea of being trend-setting team leaders. The problem is that they are just as likely to be scum as any other player and so whenever they descend from on high to make official declarations you've got to take it with a grain of salt. Being lynched doesn't particularly concern me.

All that being said, Ellibereth doesn't strike me as scummy atm. Annoying and condescending? Yes. But not scummy.

[AClockworkMelon]

'Cause he just threw that out there without bothering to take the ten seconds neccesary to ascertain Doubtful's experience level?

+1

I speculated on his noobishness only to learn that he wasn't a noob. Did I think that you guys wouldn't check? Was I hoping to pass him off as a noob beneath your unsuspecting noses? Or was I just being lazy? The world may never know.

[AClockworkMelon]

I like his keeping his vote on Parknourie. Though I feel a replacement coming on there.

Is your vote on Park because you want it to be there or as a placeholder for bigger and better things?

[AClockworkMelon]

Is Doubt a noob? If so his not caring about being at L-2 indicates either a.) towniness or b.) he's not paying attention to the game. If he's not a noob then it doesn't indicate anything.

Being a narcissist, I think that I'm pretty intelligent. Trying to pass him off as a noob and hoping that you wouldn't check wouldn't be very intelligent. My question regarding his experience was genuine. I asked if he was a noob with the expectation that one of you to answer me. Which you did.

[AClockworkMelon]

You don't catch scums with laziness...

A single act of laziness doesn't indicate a trend. I've read the thread from start to finish repeatedly. I say something when there's something to say. If you don't think that I'm helping the town because I'm not finding clues, that's because I can't see them, not because I'm lazy and not looking.

[AClockworkMelon]

You're implying that for every action that I take I consider which action will take the most effort. I've torn apart my couch, looked under the coffee table, rifled under a pile of books, etc, to find the remote rather than simply walking across the living room to turn up the volume "the long way".

What if he'd been a noob? "If he's not a noob then it doesn't indicate anything." That would have been a wasted sentence! Wasted effort! Would you be sitting here asking why I'd wasted effort speculating about his not being a noob when I could have checked and confirmed that he was?

What do you think I was doing, exactly? Are you implying that Park and I are the scumpair and I was attempting to protect him? Yeah, I know, WIFOM, but that's not my MO. What a silly way to do it, too. "I know! I'll ask them if he's a noob so as to plant the seed in their minds that that's exactly what he is! Hopefully they won't answer my non-rhetorical question and foil my plan."

I'm amused by all of this. It's a red herring. Not that I blame anyone- in a game with only half a roster it becomes necessary to grasp at straws.

Frankly, I think I know what Ellibereth is doing. He claims that he's got reasons to vote for me but that he's not going to reveal anything. Now he can wait for players to speculate on those reasons and go "Bingo!" "+1!" "Yup!" Suddenly he's got a case that he didn't have to make himself.

[AClockworkMelon]

@ Clock - who said I don't intend to play? I'm catching up now. Your vicious criticism over people who aren't participating ten times every single hour like you is just a stupid blubbering to my eyes.

Why did you sign up for this game? Why did you post "I'm still here!" on the 1st? By the time you get around to posting again you'll be 8 pages behind everyone else and you won't feel like catching up. All you're doing is delaying replacement. Why?

[AClockworkMelon]

@Holycon - The mod posts in the thread and tells you that you must immediately select two players to be modkilled. Who do you select and why?

[AClockworkMelon]

@Clock: Thats a weird question?. Why would you ask something like that?

In what meaningful way was that different than asking for your top two suspects?

[AClockworkMelon]

Why would your answers have been different? If you were forced to kill two players why wouldn't you kill the two you thought most likely to be scum?

[AClockworkMelon]

@MAD - Who are your top two suspects and why?

[AClockworkMelon]

@Mike - Who are your top two suspects and why?

[AClockworkMelon]

Come now, your early suspects are not people you want to die immediately. So I think they are different. Although they become identical if you HAD TO or were FORCED to pick two people to die immediately. Your question was essentially the same, if that's what you meant, just a more provacative way of asking it. I see nothing wrong with that.

Yes, the implication was that she

had

to immediately pick two people.

I agree with you that it's not anything substantial, as it's not a trend but only a single incident, but it's not a silly or inconsequential reason for an early-game vote.

Of course it's not. I changed my vote to MAD over a relatively minor and likely joking comment that she made.

And you're playing right into Ellibereth's game for taking the bulk of the issue up with the person that Ellibereth goaded into making the point, and not with Ellibereth himself.

Oh well. I'm OK being played into his hand. I don't think he's scum.

[AClockworkMelon]

@Mike - Who are your top two suspects and why?

Park and Halycon.

Parky
Same reason as I placed my vote.

Because he dislikes random votes? Why does that indicate scum?

[AClockworkMelon]

Again, I fail to see why my speculating on his experience level indicates alignment.

[AClockworkMelon]

And you've yet to explain. Hopefully Civil Scum will be along shortly to give a guess and you can give him another +1.

[AClockworkMelon]

Now rub his nose in it, Holy.

[AClockworkMelon]

Again, I fail to see why my speculating on his experience level while making no effort to find out (except for asking) indicates alignment.

[AClockworkMelon]

Fos: Ant for now.

I'm not Ant.

[AClockworkMelon]

You seem to have misinterpreted that, yet earlier you were aware of it.

Frankly, I think I know what Ellibereth is doing. He claims that he's got reasons to vote for me but that he's not going to reveal anything. Now he can wait for players to speculate on those reasons and go "Bingo!" "+1!" "Yup!" Suddenly he's got a case that he didn't have to make himself

I think these are different, though essentially based around the same thing.

Explain this for me.

[AClockworkMelon]

I know you're not Ant, but I intend to look into him in the near future.

It seemed strange that you'd talk about me in the entire post and then, without any segue or explanation mention that you were FOSing Ant. Tbh I figured you'd meant to type "ACM" and your FOSing him was a typo.

In the first part of the quote that isn't there, I said that you should have been more concerned with Ellibereth on that point. Because, it was his and because he was using it to base his vote on. I discussed it because I brought it up, but I hadn't thought much of it, and I was just saying how that's Ellibereth's game you're playing into, taking the issue up with me now after bringing up his point. Maybe I shouldn't have been guessing, but it was fairly obvious what Ellibereth was getting at in the quote, and on this page he admitted that it was obvious, and that the "lack of effort" was basically the same obvious point he was getting at -I trust, at least, that he's not lying about that.

The early quote of yours, the one you quoted, would make me think you would have understood my later comment along those lines.
Yet later, your reaction to the comment indicated a different understanding of my comment.
Here:

And you're playing right into Ellibereth's game for taking the bulk of the issue up with the person that Ellibereth goaded into making the point, and not with Ellibereth himself.

Oh well. I'm OK being played into his hand. I don't think he's scum.

Basically, I thought that Something you said earlier, made me think you would understand what I was saying in a certain way. I said you were playing into Ellibereth's game (as in the mysterious question, get other people's points or whatever), and that's not the same as "playing into someone's hand." "Playing into someone's game" doesn't invoke any relation to their alignment, while you've identified that "playing into someone's hand" involves a connection to alignment. After all, you mentioned how you've reasoned whether or not things that Ellibereth might be doing, are anti-town.

This is all in English but I can't understand any points that you're making.

There isn't anything that I can say about the topic that I haven't already said. If you guys aren't satisfied with my explanation you're just going to have to deal with it. At the end of the game I'll only reaffirm that there was nothing special about what I said regarding Doubt's experience level.

Robo, are you working on getting players replaced?

[AClockworkMelon]

Wow. Just wow.

[AClockworkMelon]

What's wrong with you?

He's being replaced.

[AClockworkMelon]

Okay he was prodded on the 4th with no reply but he's still posting elsewhere.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN.

You tell me, Sherlock.

[AClockworkMelon]

2

2) Holycon's right, you are acting defensive. I find that scummish

Hmm i missed this or ignored it but anyways when i said ACM sounded defensive i never said it was scummy

No one has said that you thought I was acting scummy. Nameloc was quoting MAD.

This is reaching too far IMO, and I understand there's a need to do that (it's not like much has happened in this game), but this is entirely too far. In one post, you both lowered suspicion on yourself and raised it on the person who suspects you the most, and you ask questions as if you're participating and scumhunting, but you didn't pursue the answers effectively and you didn't do anything with the information you gained.

As Civil clarified, I wasn't using that as evidence of Elli's alignment. In fact, I later specified that I found Elli townish.

@ACM - Who are YOUR top 2 suspects and why?

1.) Ant
His last post with content was made on the 4th. In that post he claimed that he thought Elli was town because of how mysterious he was acting. "The whole thing about him slowly releasing information to the public is actually confirming his spot for me." That doesn't make any sense to me. But I think it makes sense from the point of view of scum because when you're scum you know who the town players are. When you know someone is town anything that they do can be claimed to be indicative of their towniness because, well, they're town and they're doing it. This isn't a lot to go on but you ask and so I provide. I was hoping that he'd say and reveal more before I decided to make a case on him or not.

2.) I don't have anyone else that I find as suspicious as Ant but if I absolutely had to pick I'd go with either Holycon or Civil. Civil FOS'd Ant without explaining his reasoning and even when I mentioned it he brushed it off by saying that he was going to look at him sometime in the future. Does that mean you FOS'd him

before

examining him for suspicious behavior? Holycon just behaves in a way that seems suspicious to me. She's very vague and noncommittal. But she behaved similarly in a game where she was town. Plus I often find myself skimming over her posts because of how difficult I sometimes find them to read so maybe I'm only perceiving vagueness.

[AClockworkMelon]

ISO: 31, 32

vote: Nameloc

Fos: Acm, Holycon

I hope that cleared it up.

I'm going to assume that your FOSs are pointless like the last one. You've already admitted to FOSing him

before

looking for suspicious behavior.

I like how you throw FOSs and votes at anyone who takes issue with your behavior.

[AClockworkMelon]

Wow, ACM, this is bull shit. "My behavior" = the one Fos ??? This is the only thing anyone's

got

on me, and it's god damn NOTHING. NOTHING.

(Fixed)

You're right. It wasn't anything at all. As I said, I'd only consider it if I absolutely had to pick a second suspect. In fact, it was such a minor point that it only makes it stranger that you'd react to it being made by throwing out two FOSs and a vote.

[AClockworkMelon]

*You're

[AClockworkMelon]

I don't know why it's bugging me so much- Robo, not sure if you're willing but I'd appreciate having my spelling error corrected in post 306. You can even keep 307 and this post so people reading through know about my horrible mistake. :3

[AClockworkMelon]

I thought you were just assuming this, but I just realized that those were 3 of the 4 people (I think) who mentioned my "Fos: Ant thing." I honestly didn't do that on purpose.

Then why

did

you FOS me and Holycon?

Even if I'm willing to accept that you didn't intentionally vote/FOS everyone who mentioned the Ant situation, that's what you get for throwing around FOSs without providing rationale.

[AClockworkMelon]

That's three FOSs that you've thrown down without explanation.

[AClockworkMelon]

Also, his whole first post about material specific to this game, was about MAD. I think that's odd.

Can you explain why you think that's odd? That's how the game is played; we make cases against each other. That post was his case against MAD. I'm not suggesting that I agree or disagree with the content of the post itself, I'm just asking what you find odd about it.

When Nameloc asked me "when I said what I meant", I went to find it in my ISO. And was reminded how distracted I got by Parknourie. And that nothing in Doubtful's ISO came up, and nothing in my ISO (or anyone's) got any mention from Nameloc about Doubtful.

Is the point you're making here that Nameloc hasn't mentioned anything in regards to an ISO on you or Doubtful? I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your meaning correctly.

You're voting for Nameloc because:
1.) His first meaningful post was a case on MAD
2.) He hasn't commented on the results of a Civil Scum/Doubtful ISO

Is that right?

[AClockworkMelon]

Sure is, but just because I didn't provide an explanation doesn't mean I don't have them.

But why even bother mentioning an FOS if not to then share with us what behavior has drawn your suspicion? And let's not forget the Ant FOS. Sure, you later provided rationale for having FOS'd him, but not before admitting that you'd FOS'd him

before

having examined him for suspicious behavior. From where I'm sitting it seems like you FOS'd him only to come up with justification for it after the fact. I don't even know what possible motivation you'd have for doing that, but there you go.

I'm also waiting for MAD to come back, and ZeroFang to complete his read-up. I might as well

Fos: MAD

, but I don't want to go into it right now.

So you're voting for Nameloc and FOSing MAD, Holycon, Ant and myself. FOSs become meaningless if you apply them to everyone.

[AClockworkMelon]

Saying it too plainly gives my suspect more information about what I'm thinking than I would like him to have.

I can understand this. But this brings me back to my original question: Why even mention the FOS at all? If you'd just not mentioned it you'd be just as capable of being suspicious of your suspects. It's like you said "Hey, guess what?" to us only to say "Not gonna tell you" when we inquire as to what the hell you're talking about.

[AClockworkMelon]

And you still haven't answered whether or not I did anything else that put me on your vague "#2 or #3" list.

No. That's why I stressed at the time of posting that I was only including you and Holycon because I felt obligated to fully answer the question, which was the names of my top two suspects. Like you said:

TBH, I find a lot of people suspicious this game, partly because no one seems "really" suspicious.

[AClockworkMelon]

1. NO ONE said I was being "try hardy". Go back and look it up. That's something you obviously made up yourself.

I think Civil is misremembering. Holy said something along those lines but it was directed at me, not Name.

[AClockworkMelon]

I provided justification for my not pursuing Ant immediately after the Fos, never a justification for the original Fos. You missed this?

Take a look at the following exchange:

Civil FOS'd Ant without explaining his reasoning and even when I mentioned it he brushed it off by saying that he was going to look at him sometime in the future.

I clearly want to know why you FOS'd Ant.

Civil FOS'd Ant without explaining his reasoning and even when I mentioned it he brushed it off by saying that he was going to look at him sometime in the future.

Hmm, I brushed it off by saying exactly what I meant when I Fos'ed him...

You suggest that you'd been crystal clear regarding your reasons.

Civil FOS'd Ant without explaining his reasoning and even when I mentioned it he brushed it off by saying that he was going to look at him sometime in the future.

Hmm, I brushed it off by saying exactly what I meant when I Fos'ed him...

When did you say exactly what you meant? I must of missed that.

Nameloc says that he must have missed the rationale that you suggested you'd provided already.

ISO: 31, 32

vote: Nameloc

Fos: Acm, Holycon

I hope that cleared it up.

No, that didn't clear things up at all.

And now you're saying "

Of course

I never provided reasoning for FOSing him. I only provided reasoning for not building a case on him".

I'm tired of this.

Unvote

VOTE: Civil Scum

[AClockworkMelon]

You're tired of your one point that doesn't mean I'm scum? Well, not sure why that would be.

No, I'm tired of you jerking us around.

[AClockworkMelon]

I guess it would be pointless for me to answer any future questions of yours.

Cool beans.

[AClockworkMelon]

Vague #2 or #3 for not explaining myself properly, a vote for trying.

Yeah that's exactly it.

[AClockworkMelon]

While a frighteningly weak argument for me being scummy

Contradictions, word games, doubling back, a refusal to take clear stances, pedantry, etc. I don't think it's a weak argument and I don't think the other players will disagree. But you can keep building whatever strawmen suit your purposes.

this is a great move for you if you were scum, makes a possible later vote for you look like OMGUS from me. Pretty Slick.

It's funny that you should mention this. Immediately after voting for you I considered posting "This is the part where you wish you could vote for me without confirming our suspicions of OMGUS" but I thought that that seemed too snarky at the time.

[AClockworkMelon]

I've been suspicious of the ways you are quoting people.

You mean like this?

Take issues with my arguments all you like but I go out of my way to make sure that the people I'm arguing with are represented fairly in my quotes. That being said, I do prune quotes straight to the point from time to time. If you have an example of a misrep, by all means, share it with the rest of the class. If not, dig up something more substantial.

[AClockworkMelon]

Pedantic, me? Cause I was the one insisting a stricter adherrence to accepted use's of FoS?

A FOS is a "Finger of Suspicion". As in people that you're suspicious of. You've been using it to mean "People that I don't know if I'm suspicious of. Really, there's no difference between me putting a FOS on them and not putting a FOS on them. Why am I even posting?"

Contradictions? Like?

Like when you suggested having a reason for FOSing Ant and later linked to fluffy, altogether meaningless posts as supposed evidence of those reasons only to change it up and claim that, as we suspected (and you denied), that your FOS might as well have been a meaningless assembly of characters that you randomly bashed into your keyboard with a rock. This can also fall under word games, a refusal to take clear stances, pedantry ("Actually, what I

technically

said was..."), etc.

[AClockworkMelon]

Until you have something new to bring to the table, that's all I've got to say to you on the matter. We'll have a noose ready for you shortly.

[AClockworkMelon]

Hey guys, I'm the doc.

And by doc, I mean vanilla townie whose player is CPR certified.

[AClockworkMelon]

No.

It's an analogy. Civil thinks it's my fault that his misuse of FOSs has caused issues. The terms we use in Mafia have meaning and he's disregarding that only to blame others for the confusion.

[AClockworkMelon]

It's an analogy. Civil thinks it's my fault that his misuse of FOSs has caused issues. The terms we use in Mafia have meaning and he's disregarding that only to blame others for the confusion.

This is fair.

I'm glad that you see where my frustration is coming from.

It is NOT my fault that you are basing a vote off of it, and only it, and then claiming this is a good lynch. That's more your fault.

I'm not very confident that you're scum. I don't really think that what you did was that big of a deal. But as you've said, there isn't anyone that's super suspicious this game. You voted for Name for pretty minor reasons, why can't I do the same to you?

You just made a straw-man and drew white fangs on it.

My argument's Halloween flavored.

Hey guys, I'm the doc.

And by doc, I mean vanilla townie whose player is CPR certified.

Why would you claim now? On day one? With hardly a vote on you?

I wish people would read conversations as more than a series of unrelated posts. Nothing anyone says is created in a vacuum. I'm confident that if you'd read the entire conversation completely you'd have understood the context of that post and realized it was an analogy.

[AClockworkMelon]

No one's arguments have been very substantial. For you to claim that anythign I say is a strawman, but your case is not, is pretty ridiculous.

I don't think you know what strawman means.

[AClockworkMelon]

Okay, well, if answering your questions, or trying to convince you I didn't have any motives for this or that I'm not scum, is jerking you around.

You're tired of your one point that doesn't mean I'm scum? Well, not sure why that would be.

Those are examples of strawmen arguments.

[AClockworkMelon]

And I particularly enjoy how Name and Zero are online and clearly following the conversation (they both asked about my "claim") and yet neither feels the urge to actually comment on the discussion at hand. I know it's tempting to just sit on the sidelines and let me and Civil hurl shit at each other while you wait for the dust to settle instead of risking having the spotlight shined on you but that's really not going to fly.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm relaxed.

[AClockworkMelon]

Not exactly an argument that needs to be straw-manned.

Buh?

And once again, your quoting is obscuring the actual context.

I didn't obscure anything.

I will say that you were not bothered at all last game by the ways I defend myself. I made some "jerky" comments and you let them slide without any further attention.

I don't care how "jerky" you get. I don't remember ever complaining about your being a jerk.

But, maybe that's some type of buddying strategy.

Buh?

Why did anyone who didn't gradually die over every night? Well, who knows, that's all WIFOM.

What are you talking about? The last game we played only lasted one day. You've been around the block, you should know how fruitless nightkill speculation is. Are you now trying to speculate on a night phase that hasn't even happened yet? And I like the "Well, who knows, that's all WIFOM". Then don't even mention it. You're like a sleazy prosecutor accusing a witness and smirking at the jury with a tap on your nose when the judge tells them to disregard it.

Seriously the Fos-thing, and the appearance of OMGUS behavior in a very vague, spacious, and unsure-footed game, are the most suspicious things here?

Even Nameloc agrees with me. He's got an FOS on you. :/

My scum reading on [Civil] though still feels more like a townie, who just hasn't explained himself well.

Even Nameloc doesn't agree with you :/

So what? Why should his approval or disapproval of my opinion have any bearing on my suspicions? I don't know his alignment so I'm going to ignore his opinion. What I'll listen to is evidence that he presents.

[AClockworkMelon]

ACM: Well, I was still your number 2 or 3 before you had come up with any of this. You neatly avoided that by attacking every next word that came out of my mouth. Which you think is going to work, but it's distracting from the fact I just mentioned.

Are you on crazy pills? You

were

my #2-3. I don't know if you remember, but I put you at the same level of suspicion as Holycon being vague. It was minor stuff. But when I posted that you were my #2-3 you completely lost your shit. Now you're my #1.

Was it just coincidence that the person you put at #2.5 for very minor things, was the person you ended up going after? Did you FoS me for no reason or something? At first maybe, did you do that? And then maybe you looked too hard? Hmm?

See above.

The "Buh's", was it not making sense or what. I don't know what Buh means.

It means that whatever I was quoting was too stupid to come up with a proper response for.

[AClockworkMelon]

Was it just coincidence that the person you put at #2.5 for very minor things, was the person you ended up going after? Did you FoS me for no reason or something? At first maybe, did you do that? And then maybe you looked too hard? Hmm?

Was it just coincidence that the person who put you at #2.5 and then at #1 is the person

you

ended up going after? Are you a little OMGUS goblin (note that unlike what you're saying, I didn't FOS you or anyone- make that twice that you "misremember" things)? Hmm?

[AClockworkMelon]

Mr. Logical Fallacy, you're ignoring your own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fa ... _verbosity

Unless you can provide that the things I accused him aren't so, you've got nothing.

And you incorrectly identified a strawman too.

He said "Okay, well, if answering your questions, or trying to convince you I didn't have any motives for this or that I'm not scum, is jerking you around" as if my stated beef with him was that he was answering my questions. Of course, it's easy enough to proceed from there and claim suggest that it's silly for me to be taking an issue with that. The problem is that my beef with him

wasn't

that he was answering my questions. Civil has been slippery as a fucking snake all throughout this game and I don't like it.

ACM, you pulled off a classic "ask lots of questions to see what everyone's thoughts are without giving up any info myself". That's generally a scum move. This section of the game needs more attention.

I was asking those questions because the game had stalled and I was trying to produce activity. If anyone had any questions regarding my thoughts I would have been more than happy to answer them, but they didn't.

[AClockworkMelon]

Civil: argues with ACM but also says ACM isn't scummy (iso #s 20 and 27; also #32);

Not thinking that so much anymore.

The more I go after Civil, the scummier he'll think I am guys.

[AClockworkMelon]

Actual work??? ...nice first post-RVS effort, MAD.

I found that pretty funny, too.

[AClockworkMelon]

Ok...first off, this whole thing about the FoS crap...is crap. Civil just stated his current thoughts/feelings and later just brushed them off. Other people have done that this game, the only difference is they didn't always attach the FoS tag on them.

I'd like to point out that my spat with Civil has exploded far beyond what I expected. I didn't expect him to make an issue at all over that tiny comment I initially made when listing my suspects. Holycon was included as tied for second with him and she didn't lose her mind. I'm not voting for Civil based on the FOS itself but because of his subsequent reaction when I mentioned it. So yes, the FOS crap is crap.

Ant, two of the three scenarios you thought of have me as scum but you're voting for Nameloc. This isn't an issue because you never talked about what you thought the probabilities of each scenario being the case were. But I'd like to know why you find Nameloc more suspicious than you do Civil or myself because he hasn't really stood out to me at all.

[AClockworkMelon]

Why did you only have "crap" reasons for putting me at number 2/3?

Maybe this will help:

- This was my level of suspicion towards Ant. It was a moderate level of suspicion considering what I had to go with.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- You and Holy
- Everyone else

The point was that you two had done something that I felt was enough to elevate you, barely,

barely

, above the others. From the beginning I thought my "case" (in quotes because it wasn't so much a case as a note) on you was as indicative of your alignment as Holycon's vagueness. I only even mentioned it at all because I didn't want to provide a single name when I'd been asked for more.

[AClockworkMelon]

I mean Jesus, my reasons for putting Holy at 2/3 were pretty crap, too.

[AClockworkMelon]

Does anyone else think that Holycon sounds way too...I don't know... wispy, smoky, indifferent...

...

vague

?

[AClockworkMelon]

Ya rly.

[AClockworkMelon]

Ya rly.

It's tough to tell with you sometimes.

Was this:
A) Agree
B) Disagree
C) Wait to see what other people think

Agreement.

[AClockworkMelon]

Oh yeah, someone mentioned something interesting about park's other game earlier? I forgot what it was.

OMG LAZINESS YOU MUST BE SCUM

Anyway, Civil was commenting about the results of Park's game. I think he flipped scum there.

[AClockworkMelon]

Hmph.
Looks like he enjoys playing scum more from the way he was talking at the end...
Ugh.

Cliquey conducted a study regarding replacements and their alignments. People who replace out are more likely to be vanilla town than scum (funny considering that in that game both the scum were replacements). Probably from boredom (if you play ten games most of them will be as VT and so you're more likely to stick around if you're in a role you don't get often).

[AClockworkMelon]

Actually, I should probably amend that hypothesis:

People who replace out are more likely to be VT than

anything else

.

[AClockworkMelon]

And I mean disproportionately more likely.

As in, if ten people replace out you'd expect like 6 to be VT, 2 to be PRs and 2 to be scum but in reality I think out of ten replacements nearly all of them will be VTs.

Preview: This isn't in response to Holy's post.

[AClockworkMelon]

Actually, I should probably amend that hypothesis:

People who replace out are more likely to be VT than

anything else

.

I find this wrong because ive replaced into a few games and all of them scum

Newbie 956 and 986?

That's interesting. I'd need a larger sample pool of course, but I might be interested in picking up where Cliquey left off. It could affect meta strategy by a great deal.

[AClockworkMelon]

I will probably believe it was him not wanting to play a VT roll.

More or less my opinion.

[AClockworkMelon]

Uh 8 hours? Guys, we should probably very rapidly decide who we're voting for.

[AClockworkMelon]

Zero's at L-1?

I'll hammer near the deadline if I have to but hopefully we're hear from everyone before the day's out. If we're lynching lurkers Mike might also be a good choice.

[AClockworkMelon]

Why aren't you trying.
At all.

He's too good for this sinful Earth.

[AClockworkMelon]

Mike, I don't care how you do it (maybe forget about catching up and just try to play from here? I don't know) but you need to get in the game or replace out. I'd rather have you replace now than pussyfoot for a few days and then do it. The longer you wait the more pages you're giving your replacement to read when he takes the wheel. Play moar.

[AClockworkMelon]

That or we could just lynch you of course.

[AClockworkMelon]

Ellibereth, I really don't see how your screaming and pointing fingers is really helpful for the town, especially as an IC.

Why don't you post something helpful, then? From where we're sitting you look like the best lynch and you're not helping us find better alternatives.

[AClockworkMelon]

Ellibereth, I really don't see how your screaming and pointing fingers is really helpful for the town, especially as an IC.

THIS GAME IS SCREAMING AND POINTING FINGERS.
Well maybe not screaming.
But yeah.

Let me make this simple:
You don't post for a whiiiiile until we run you up damn close to deadline, and only thing you can come in and say is "lol I'm a vanilla townie, k?".

Presumably if he had a power role - he would claim even I know that's an obvious thing to do in that scenario. So you are basically telling him to false claim ...

Forgive me, my naivity but why would this be a good thing for the town to have zero false claim?

The point is that he isn't doing anything to defend himself. He could have claimed vanilla townie

and

mounted a defense. But he's basically giving up. Which isn't surprising given his apparent lack of interest in the game.

[AClockworkMelon]

^no, that is not what he meant.

He was talking about how Zero has avoided posting here, and only when he was need to right before he was lynched, he came back just to say a little tiny tiny tiny post saying he was town...with no additional content.

How's that different than what I said?

[AClockworkMelon]

Just realized you may have been talking to Mike, not me.

Please clarify who you're talking to.

[AClockworkMelon]

k

[AClockworkMelon]

ya rly

[AClockworkMelon]

I say MikeMike D-2 on policy. And then Holycon. And then I really don't care. Post "moar"

What

? You're setting up policy lynches for the next two days?

[AClockworkMelon]

vote: Zerofang

I couldn't punish Parknourie (although I will basically refuse to play with him ever again), and it's high time I said "no" to posting elsewhere but NEVER catching up with a fucking game youre in.

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm not going to hold your disappointment against you because it's what I'm feeling, too.

[AClockworkMelon]

Anyway, policy lynches aren't our best option.

Mike and Holycon will hopefully improve their play but if we just policy lynch people every day we're not very likely to find the scum. Especially if you're one of them.

[AClockworkMelon]

Nameloc, we're already in twilight. Civil hammered.

[AClockworkMelon]

Ellibereth didn't vote for Zero. His vote was conditional on when the game ended. But Zero was at L-1 before Ellibereth voted. Meaning Ellibereth's conditional vote was actually a conditional hammer.

[AClockworkMelon]

Wait, I missed two things:

1.) Ellibereth already had his vote on Zero before he made this post:

midnight of 15 means the beginning of 15 no?
I'm not sure.

Unvote, Vote Zero IF AND ONLY IF THE DEADLINE IS THE BEGINNING OF THE 15TH, NOT THE END

There.

So that post was pointless. He was already voting for Zero.

2.) Mike unvoted on page 18.

So right now we've got Ellibereth, Holycon, Ant and Civil voting for Zero. That's four. One more vote needed to make it a hammer.

[AClockworkMelon]

1.) If it was a gambit, I'm sorry. I didn't realize.

2.) I don't think it was a good gambit. The chances were slim of nobody noticing and saying something before Zero came back to the thread, which would have been sometime next month.

[AClockworkMelon]

Just to be clear: Unvotes are NOT needed (but they're appreciated).

[AClockworkMelon]

For future reference if you notice fake hammers and stuff like that most of the time you should just shut up and wait for the guy to come back.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

Just to note: A clever player could figure it out himself and BS a response, though. "I'm town, guys" knowing that the vote doesn't count and that he'll be exonerated when it's discovered that he's still alive.

[AClockworkMelon]

Did you know Bruce Willis was a ghost halfway through

The Sixth Sense

?

[AClockworkMelon]

Give me a break. Holycon was making an attempt to correct you guys, too. I've never encountered that type of thing in Mafia before.

[AClockworkMelon]

I was partly joking out of frustration to be honest. How would you feel if you had a good ISO post up and it got deleted before it went out?

Now

that

I

have

encountered.

[AClockworkMelon]

And by encountered I mean experienced.

[AClockworkMelon]

@Zero - Now that you've been lynched, care to share your alignment with the rest of the class?

[AClockworkMelon]

Actually, that's not a good idea. If he bothers to read the last half page he'll know what the deal is and he could easily try to bluff and pretend that he's responding to the last post before reading the rest.

You hear me, Zero? I'm fucking on to you.

[AClockworkMelon]

No. Zero was at L-1. Now that you've, for some reason, switched your vote to Holycon, he's at L-2. Now about that: Why did you change your vote to Holycon? You seemed adamant about punishing Zero for ignoring this thread and now you're focusing on a different lurker and endangering a wagon that you supported a day before the deadline?

[AClockworkMelon]

If he hasn't been lynched by the time I wake up (I won't be going to sleep for another 6 hours or so probably) I'll do the honors.

[AClockworkMelon]

Policy lynching example:

You're active lurking. I have to policy lynch you because if I didn't people would think that they could get away with active lurking.

[AClockworkMelon]

I say MikeMike D-2 on policy. And then Holycon. And then I really don't care. Post "moar"

Right so you are voting for Zero despite thinking he's town and then got your day 2 and day 3 lynches planned already. If you think I'm scum and Zero isn't then voting for Zero ahead of me or Holy is ridiculous.

Cite showing Civil Scum thinks you're scum, please.

[AClockworkMelon]

VOTE: Zero

[AClockworkMelon]

hes not seeting up policy lynches for day 2 and 3 those are his suspicions

He specifically said it was policy. That being said I don't really think it's a big deal.

I'd like clarification from Civil and Ant regarding their suspicions.

[AClockworkMelon]

Though, the thing I like, is the leader of the wagon was not even on the final vote for the lynch. While in Elli's last post of D1, he did say "[Zerofang]'s scum", there was no vote to go along with his words. It just...struck me as odd, that one would push a wagon, push push push some more, hope off the wagon, and finally push some more while not hopping back on the wagon. That brough up a red flag for me. I'll post the other two later when I have time tonight.

1.) You said you'd post that night. What happened?
2.) Help me out here, why's that behavior indicative of scum?

[AClockworkMelon]

I wish I had a good reason for my recent inactivity (like school, a death in the family, zombie outbreak, etc). I recently purchased Mass Effect 2 (it's down to $20!) and it's been eating up my time. Expect content from me soon.

[AClockworkMelon]

VOTE: Holycon

I don't know why you're being so difficult in regards to Elli and Civil's simple question. You voted for me while you de facto FOS'd your supposed suspicions without seriously pursuing them. I don't know why you keep saying that my playstyle in this game matches my playstyle in the first game I played where I flipped town. That's not very good evidence of my alignment. You said that you were suspicious of Zero last game? I looked through your ISO. Only after everyone else had showed their hands did you tip yours: "I've been suspicious of him all along! And he hasn't eased my mind since his replacement that's for darned certain!" You're attempting to play to the mob.

[AClockworkMelon]

Also: I've beaten the game and caught up with the thread. I'm in posting mode again.

[AClockworkMelon]

Scummish reads on Holy & ACM

At least you present a thorough case! Share your thoughts with the class?

[AClockworkMelon]

Or is this in the realm of becoming in danger of ending up out-thinking yourself?

It's a big 'ol can of wine.

In my last (and only) game of scum I was like an uber town player. I used my knowledge of everyone's alignments to play people against each other, etc. A very proud moment for me. I'm basically playing like shit this game. Is that evidence of my innocence?

No.

[AClockworkMelon]

Now answer this: why haven't you questioned Elli about his vote on you?

Did you miss the first few pages of the game?

After an attempt to seem mysterious Elli finally indicated that this post of mine caused his vote:

Is Doubt a noob? If so his not caring about being at L-2 indicates either a.) towniness or b.) he's not paying attention to the game. If he's not a noob then it doesn't indicate anything.

[AClockworkMelon]

Clock

MAD's bussing.

[AClockworkMelon]

You said that you were suspicious of Zero last game?

EBWOP: I meant yesterday, not "last game".

[AClockworkMelon]

1. Holy
2. CS
3. ACM
4. Mad

You had, during day one, claimed that you thought CS was "the most pro-town player here". Now he's near the top of your list of suspects. Is this because of the stuff regarding policy lynches or is something else going on that I'm not aware of?

[AClockworkMelon]

mad has only popped in a fee times and only to ride other peoples coat tails she's a parrot and that for me is a huge scum tell and actually I'm going to vote for now that I think about it more she seems to only pop in

when we mention her

so she can stay under the radar and we have aloud her to do so

[AClockworkMelon]

If you have something to claim. If you're just going to claim VT there's no point.

Just thought of it this morning. Does this sound like roll fishing to anyone else?

"Should I claim?"
"Only if you have something to claim."

Perfectly reasonable to me.

[AClockworkMelon]

Wow, Mike.

@CS: What's "BWing"?

@Holy: CS didn't ask about your ACM vote.

[AClockworkMelon]

BW'ing = Bandwagoning ...???????

Chill. I didn't know the acronym.

Are you defending MikeMike right now?

Why couldn't you just answer his question?

[AClockworkMelon]

Chill????? did you see exclamations int here or something.... you need to get your sun glasses checked!

Cool your jets.

Anyways, it's fairly obvious from Nameloc's posts and his nice easy slide into the fourth vote, that he's suspicious as fuck if Holycon flips town. I don't feel any need to go into that further atm.

Uh, that's exactly what you did on page 25.

[AClockworkMelon]

Seriously, how are you and Ant unaware of the possibility!?!?!?!?!?

Do you know that the scum submitted a no-kill?

Have you been paying ZERO attention this whole time!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

If we even have a doc?????

You two are fucking joking right

Like seriously, what the fuckin fuck

LOLOLOL

Wow you guys.

[AClockworkMelon]

OK OK OK, I'm still trying to compose myself. I'm trying to figure out if Ant and MAD are scum or just stupid. Then there's Civil, who might be trying to drum up their stupidity as scumminess.

[AClockworkMelon]

Have the doc claim now, or No Lynch and have them claim tomorrow?

Are you softclaiming?

If you're the doc you need to tell us who you protected.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm asking theoretically, which one would give the town the most information?

Giving the town information will give the town most information.

[AClockworkMelon]

If there's a doc in the game it's MAD. We've all been screaming for the doc to claim and the reason the doc hasn't claimed is because the doc hasn't been paying attention to the game.

Unless someone counterclaims I'm going to say that as far as I can tell we have tantamount to confirmed town.

[AClockworkMelon]

Now we need to get her ass here so we can find out who she protected and get our second confirmed town.

[AClockworkMelon]

Does it appear to anyone else that Clock has been baiting Civil?

I can imagine it seeming like I'm baiting Civil to someone who's still catching up with the events of day one.

[AClockworkMelon]

I've been accused of buddying before and each time it's been eyeroll inducing. And since when have I been goading you to go after MAD? Earlier I suggested that I thought MAD was town. When you're both done misrepping me you can continue with your scheduled broadcasts.

[AClockworkMelon]

[After all,] Earlier I suggested that I thought MAD was town.

"Suggested that you thought" eh? ...interesting.

Remember when I suggested that MAD was the doc?

LOLOLOL

Wow you guys.

Times like these, just recently.

I hadn't posted yet that day. When I arrived in the thread it was to see you having a meltdown. Bet your ass it was funny. I'm not going to tiptoe around what I say because it might be interpreted by overeager players as buddying.

I'm trying to figure out if Ant and MAD are scum or just stupid. Then there's Civil, who might be trying to drum up their stupidity as scumminess.

Is this suggesting that MAD is a townie? What is this besides waffling?

When did I say that this was an example of my suggesting that MAD was town? Town players don't typically have an interest in arguing disingenuously, Civil. I particularly like that this quoted post is an example of me doing the opposite of buddying with you.

If there's a doc in the game it's MAD. We've all been screaming for the doc to claim and the reason the doc hasn't claimed is because the doc hasn't been paying attention to the game.

This as well could be buddying.

Now it's my turn to ask if you're fucking kidding me.

So every time I say that I think Player A or Player B is town I'm buddying with them? GTFO.

VOTE: Civil

[AClockworkMelon]

I've got to post more about that last bit. It's such a fucking joke.

I even

insulted

MAD in the last half of the quoted post.

[AClockworkMelon]

Remember when I suggested that MAD was the doc?

Remember when MAD said she wasn't the doctor?

If you thought someone was town, mainly for believing they're the doctor, then a lot of that should go out the window when they deny it.

The issue isn't whether I think she's town or not, but whether I was goading you to go after her. I wasn't. The last time I mentioned her outside of this conversation was suggesting she was town. But thanks for trying.

I'm sure for your next trick you'll move the goalposts again.

[AClockworkMelon]

Going back and forth on an issue. Hesitance to take a clear stance. Indecisiveness.

[AClockworkMelon]

You're right, it was a huge exaggeration. It's called hyperbole.

Can you clarify who you think I was attempting to bait and what you think I was attempting to bait them into doing?

[AClockworkMelon]

You're right, it was a huge exaggeration. It's called hyperbole.

Can you clarify who you think I was attempting to bait and what you think I was attempting to bait them into doing?

I don't think you were baiting a particular player, but baiting whoever is the doctor.

I follow your meaning now.

I should have quoted this sentence as well:

Unless someone counterclaims I'm going to say that as far as I can tell we have tantamount to confirmed town.

When I said that I thought MAD was the doc I was being genuine. I was excited that I'd potentially discovered (in my mind) a confirmed town and narrowed down the list of potential lynches. I intended "unless someone counterclaims" as protection against a potential MADscum claiming doc based on my suggestion.

[AClockworkMelon]

Question: What is waffling?

Using 1000 words when 10 would do just fine.

I'm aware that there is a definition of waffling meaning to drone on meaninglessly but I was under the impression that my other given definition was correct. As in to "waffle back and forth". A Google search of "waffle back and forth" shows it being used a LOT in this manner. The context of Civil's use seems to indicate that that was his intended meaning but he can clarify for himself.

Clarification Request: Definition of Buddying ?

To get friendly with someone. The implication is that someone is buddying up with someone else to avoid taking heat from that someone else.

[AClockworkMelon]

Attempting to force the potential doc's hand doesn't seem a very pro-town thing to do to me .

Sharing with the rest of the town on what may be the last round of the game that I'd eliminated a person from our list of lynch candidates (and was hoping to have later eliminated a second; whoever she'd protected Night One) seemed like the most pro-town thing to do at the time.

[AClockworkMelon]

Unfortunately, being a doc or cop or whatever doesn't give you special rights over deciding anything. If I think that I can help the town by outing a doc you can bet that I'm going to do it. The only reason I mentioned being excited was as an explanation as to why I didn't think my plan through as thoroughly as I should have before going through with it. I'm now aware that my plan wasn't a good one. I don't need another summary as to why.

[AClockworkMelon]

I would like others to weigh in on this, do you think that Civil vs ACM is scum/scum, scum/town, or town/town?

scum/town

Did I not use the term the right way?

Yes. You mentioned baiting and for some reason I didn't know you were talking about luring out the doc until you clarified.

[AClockworkMelon]

I thought baiting/luring would be the same thing?

I had a brain fart. When the word "bait" was used I thought of "provoke" as in "antagonize". It's not a big deal. Once you explained I understood what you meant.

[AClockworkMelon]

Mike, are you kidding me? When I try to out the doc in the hopes of confirming two people I'm scum but when you ask the doc to claim in the hopes of confirming two people it's okeydokey?

Give me a break.

[AClockworkMelon]

You've spent the whole game active - asking the right questions looking like a good little townie

Right. Too townie to be town. Gotcha.

You've also been in on both lynches (

admittedly so have most of us

)

Then why even mention it?

making sure of course that you would only hammer zero to make sure the town didn't miss out on a lynch before the deadline

At least I didn't lynch before the town was ready. Oops.

[AClockworkMelon]

Unless someone counterclaims I'm going to say that as far as I can tell we have tantamount to confirmed town.

Now we need to get her ass here so we can find out who she protected and get our second confirmed town.

What made you so sure her protection would still have been around D-3?

I wasn't "so sure". I got ahead of myself.

[AClockworkMelon]

Process of elimination is no way to make a case. I know from experience. Feel free to continue thinking that I'm scum, but don't cite process of elimination as one of your reasons because it'll just dilute the rest of your case (at least IMO).

And you think that the argument Civil and I had was planned? I can't remember much and I'm not concerned enough with the issue to go look it up but I remember a protracted debate regarding FOSs and the terminology regarding their use. There's no evidence I can offer that would show it wasn't planned but well, Civil and I deserve fucking Oscars for that performance if it turns out it wasn't legit. I still remember saying "Cool beans". That's hardcore shit.

Frankly I don't know what the hell to think any more. I sort of burned up the last of my enthusiasm after the MADDOC letdown. It's tempting to think that Ant and Civil are bussing one another but I don't think that's what's happening. There isn't much of a reason for them to do it at this point. If they were both scum they could probably just drive the town towards a mislynch based on their roles in the social dynamic that's been created.

[AClockworkMelon]

I still remember saying "Cool beans". That's hardcore shit.

Haha

OMG U R TOTES BUDDYING WITH ME

[AClockworkMelon]

Where, oh where, has my little Name gone? Oh where, oh where, could he be?
It's been six days, since I've seen little Name and that's fucked up, like, totally.

[AClockworkMelon]

UNVOTE: Civil. Confirmed town as far as I'm concerned.

The things ACM has noted are legitimate scumtells, and I'm disappointed he didn't press it more or try and convince others to join him.

I don't remember a huge amount of support at the time that I typed that case up and I let it convince me that it was because my case wasn't strong at all.

Post 340

: ACM claims Doctor, for no reason and no purpose?

I'm pretty sure it was a jab at Civil and his (mis)use of FOS.

Post 348

: Now ACM says he's not very confident that Civil is scum. What about

Post 324

and

Post 334

? Those look like pretty serious accusations to me; but this back peddling reinforced my thoughts (at the time) that ACM and Civil were scum buddies and ACM was bussing his partner on a wagon he didn't think would get any momentum; but also giving himself an out to bail later. Needless to say, the case he presented on Civil was, in my opinion, much much stronger than the eventual case on ZeroFang.

Also, interestingly enough to note, that after Civil gets a second vote by my predecessor, ACM says:

I'd like to point out that my spat with Civil has exploded far beyond what I expected. I didn't expect him to make an issue at all over that tiny comment I initially made when listing my suspects.

Which is a very interesting comment, which continued my impression that ACM was pushing a case he didn't really want to see go anywhere.

See first comment.

Post 492

: ACM is on to Zero, but still won't vote? Once again, supporting the townie lynch but not participating in it.

Post 524

: ACM finally does the honors of hammering ZeroFang.

You say that I supported the lynch without participating only to immediately cite my participation?

@HipHop - Out of xvart (MAD), Ant and Mike I'd say xvart and Ant are the scumpair.

[AClockworkMelon]

I'm pretty sure it was a jab at Civil and his (mis)use of FOS.

How is claiming doctor a jab at someone usage of FoS?

I

didn't

claim doctor. I said that I was a doc- and by doc I meant a vanilla townie who knew CPR. If you don't get it I don't know how much more help I can provide.

I was claiming vanilla town. Which is what I am.

[AClockworkMelon]

@HipHop - Out of xvart (MAD), Ant and Mike I'd say xvart and Ant are the scumpair.

Here is a thought. Why were you so eager to vote civil, yet you don't cast a vote here?

No reason.

VOTE: xvart

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other whether I've technically got my vote on him.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: xvart

As long as I don't have my vote on someone else (like when I had it on Civil earlier) I don't see what problems could come of not having my vote on him. But if it's srs bzns that I do it, there you go.

I'm pretty sure it was a jab at Civil and his (mis)use of FOS.

How is claiming doctor a jab at someone usage of FoS?

I

didn't

claim doctor. I said that I was a doc- and by doc I meant a vanilla townie who knew CPR. If you don't get it I don't know how much more help I can provide.

I was claiming vanilla town. Which is what I am.

And what does that have to do with Civil misusing FoSes??

xvart.

I'm not digging up a link, but if you've read the thread you'll know I'd just made a big point about how words have meaning yadda yadda yadda etc etc. My use of doc was analogous to his use of FOS.

I haven't completely discounted you as scum despite you more than likely being the doctor and No Lynching would confirm if you were town or not, because you would be dead unless you were scum. Of course there is obviously the problem with scum throwing WIFOM by killing someone else but I seriously doubt they would do that in a newbie game when they might not kill at all if you did protect their target.

What's the matter with you? "If you survive the night you're scum." Really?

So if, assuming for the sake of argument that hiphop is town, we nolynch and scum nokills scum wins? You've created a pretty easy condition for them to fulfill, xvart.

If he was a cop I could see it but the scum aren't in a position of "OMG TOTALLY HAVE HAVE HAVE TO KILL THE DOC!"

Was that just a brainfart on your part or are you trying to set up a case for tomorrow in case we decide to no lynch?

[AClockworkMelon]

You illustrated my point exactly. You have identified me and Ant as a scum team because we are supposedly working together. That is exactly what I was saying. Scum aren't going to be so obvious to try and work together, and a good scum member wouldn't pass up an opportunity to slide in a bus if they feel it isn't going anywhere; especially with some fresh blood in here and some new case building. Even if scum are closer to winning than we are they aren't going to be so obvious "tag team back again" all up in this game. My whole point is I don't agree that ACM can be eliminated from the scum pool because a few people have expressed suspicion of him.

I agree with all of this, though.

[AClockworkMelon]

Wait, so was Mike scum then?

I was town.

[AClockworkMelon]

If it was Civil I'm never playing this game again.

[AClockworkMelon]

What's your alignment?

[AClockworkMelon]

You bastard. You're fucking with me aren't you? If it was you and Civil I swear I'm going to lose my mind.

[AClockworkMelon]

Whatever. Good game scum.

[AClockworkMelon]

I have a lot of people to thank for this. I don't even know where to start.

I'd like to thank God, who taught me to lurk moar. Civil, who went stir crazy and started doubting his early hunches. Hiphop, who used his doc cred to keep me away from the noose. Mike, for bussing me like a pro. Robocopter, for making me scum again. And to everyone else; you all made this possible! Without any of you I couldn't have made it this far. I love you all.

[AClockworkMelon]

You guys aren't just another notch on my belt. You helped me get my first ever perfect victory!

I was the one who chose the target for the failed N1 attack. It's funny, I chose Civil because he'd confirmed his vote, something that cops have done in two other games I've played. I was glad that Civil didn't pick up on that because it's exactly what I did in the scum game of mine that I linked him to.