ATHF Mafia OVER(roles and whatnot revealed)

[podium123456]

cool theme... my username at the chat mafia site i frequent is boxybrown... lol.

VOTE: Fate

because *generic RVS reason*.

[podium123456]

This is my 10th.

[podium123456]

VOTE: Seacore

Blatant breadcrumbing is weak play.

Wagon is a go

HAI PEOPLE U KNOW WHO U ARE

Where was the breadcrumb?

[podium123456]

Wait, was that a joke post when you said it? I thought you were serious.

[podium123456]

Sarcasm doesn't work with text... so when i see someone make a comment like you did, and then put on a second vote and say 'the wagon is go'... dont be surprised if they didn't immediately understand you were joking.

NEWAY

[podium123456]

Probably thought Fate would just point out that it was an RVS vote and leave it at that, though he apparently doesn't know Fate very well.

Obviously. Which is why i didn't know if he was joking.

Herp.

It's the RVS, the part of the game most likely to be filled with nothing but sarcasm and joking around.

Right, because it's not possible for a player to make a serious vote/accusation during 'RVS'. That obviously never happens, right? /sarcasm

Derp.

[podium123456]

*yawns*

[podium123456]

LOL at the flavor... i love it.

Although i really wish meatwad was around he's mah fav.

[podium123456]

^^ N1 cares. Srsly.

[podium123456]

wait... let me pull a fate

I have other games I replaced into that take precedent.

OMG guys, he just told us he's going to be lurking... and... SCUM LURK.

HOLY GOD!! Wagons! Big WAGONS! NAO!

derpaderpa derp.

edit: ninjad

[podium123456]

HERAPDERPA IM GONNA MOCK FATE INSTEAD OF TRYING TO GET A READ ON HIS ALIGNMENT BECAUSE IM SCUM

*facepalm*

If i'm scum then why do i need to try and get a read on your alignment, dumbass?

HOO BOY... we in for a good one here folks.

[podium123456]

YOU DONT THATS THE FUCKIN POINT.

THANKS FOR REINFORCING IT FOR ME.

NO PROBLEM!

[podium123456]

IF YOU CONSTANTLY YELL, HOW DO YOU EXPRESS YOURSELF AS PEOPLE BEHAVE MORE STUPIDLY?

HEAD ASSPLODE?

[podium123456]

As for the Podium/Fate interaction, I'm going to go ahead and just tell you, Podium, that attempting to turn it all into a joke so that you can discredit your wagon won't work.

Please. If i thought there was anything of substance, perhaps i would approach it differently. But what it is, is what happens every RVS: mountains out of molehills. Now we have to do the song and dance to get past this hump into the meat of the game.

What are you saying "obviously" to? To not knowing Fate well?

Obviously.

all the rest.

herp

Hey. I caught the sarcasm in nacho's post. I didn't in Fate's. Later i realized Fate was joking, and that was that.

You can read way into it, and come up with all sorts of theories if you want.

People take things one person says and calls them a liar for it as an RVS vote all the time, and there are plenty of RVS wagons, for the sole purpose of catching people like you. Clearly, this one worked.

What exactly was i caught doing?

as well as the fact that this all started with Podium being concerned for Seacore.

ORLY? Explain to me how my comment showed that i was concerned for seacore.

[podium123456]

Except that wasn't that. I believe you knew what he meant all along and simply wanted to paint him in a negative light, perhaps to come back to it later in some BS case you'd try to build.

If i had all these nefarious plans, then why didn't i do it to nacho? Hrmmmm?

You think i knew what he meant all along. OK...well.. thats like your opinion, man. Guess we will leave it at that.

But hold on... i just realized something... what i

basically

said was 'is this a serious post'... i just said asked it in a different way. You are acting like i made some big case about Fate and voted him or said he was scummy or something... all i basically did was ask if it was a serious post. When i found out it wasn't, i dropped it. You're telling me that is a scumtell?

Sheesh... i just solved everything you have against me right there.

Next dilemma.

[podium123456]

Ok, just finished going through the thread. My thoughts:

@ Fate - He's pretty tunneled on me, as well as a little weird. His initial argument against me... (that i was actually scum, and was wanting to know what the bread crumb was for my benefit)... is just as dumb as me not realizing his initial comment was sarcastic. i mean, do you really think that as scum, i would genuinely be asking that? That would be pretty naive, and i would expect most people to assume that... just like most people might assume that fate was joking.

the difference is that when i realized fate was joking, i dropped it... but fate keeps trudging along with his theory, even though i explained what i was doing. i dont find him that scummy right now, though. and yes, what i said was similar to asking 'are you serious'.

now i will sit here and wait for him to yell and curse at me.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

@ Vibebox - i didnt see anything wrong with his vote.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


@ Implosion:

Then again, I'm used to always being accused of scum early in Day 1, as some of you can attest to, so maybe I was just paranoid.

Excuses excuses excuses.
VOTE: Seacore

So far this is the scummiest thing i have found so far. (which doesn't necessarily mean it's severe)

I dont see how you couldn't understand the context of this. He was explaining why he read nacho and fate's posts in a serious manner... because he is used to being accused of being scum early on D1.

How is that out of place/context?

Your rebuttal to seacore was:

It basically amounts to saying "hey guys, people always find me scummy so even if I'm scummy you shouldn't accuse me for it."

It doesn't amount to that at all. Not even close.

UNVOTE
VOTE: implosion

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On a related note, i want to ask seacore why you left off the argument where you did. what he said (that i just quoted) was a complete misrepresentation of what you said. Now... he might have taken something the wrong way, and not realized what you actually meant... but why didn't you correct him? Why would you back down from that argument when it is so easy (and evident) to show that he is mistaken/wrong?

Makes me wonder if that was a light distancing attempt, and seacore maybe tried to let it go as a light encounter, instead of getting into a bigger discussion over it.

And when i think about it that way, implosions inaccurate paraphrase looks like something a scum would say to another scum early in the game, as a light bus.

[podium123456]

@podium,

The reason why I dropped it is that it seemed it was miscommunication, and it seemed hypocritical to vote for him for the doing what I did. I figured it was just get us into a big circle that would eventually just be seen as OMGUS

??

I didn't say you had to vote him. My problem was that you didn't even try to clear up the miscommunication... when it was so easy to do.... ESPECIALLY when that miscommunication was the source of his vote.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now.

[podium123456]

Nachomamma is in this game?

Anyway:

podium, do you think Fate is scum? What do you think of Vibebox?
VibeBox, opinions on the wagon on you.

Quick-fire low thought scumhunting questions.

+

I answered one of the questions you just asked me, so you aren't reading things very close.

=

+scumpoints

----------------------

fate and vibe are both null to me right now.

[podium123456]

wow fate. the crack pipe. put it down.

implosion was wrong about it not being in context, and his paraphrase wasn't even close to what seacore meant. seacore actually explained it correctly in post 35, but implosion came back in post 36 saying it still seemed out of context. then seacore dropped it.

taking a second look at it now, i can see how seacore could drop it at that point. but implosions description/paraphrase of it remains scummy, imo.

[podium123456]

Fate, I've grown tired of going around and around with Podium. I know why my vote is there.

Translation: "Post 63 pretty much junked my case."

[podium123456]

I guess what I'm saying is why don't you hold your own against Fate right now? Like, instead of going "HERP DERP YOU SMOKE CRACK", tell him to jump in a lake or look elsewhere or something. Like, standing for your morals and beliefs and not giving in like a damned Frenchman?

giving in? where did i give in? i said that his main point against me was ridiculous...

Translation: "Post 63 pretty much junked my case."

Actually, I hold the belief that your translation is wildly inaccurate.
If you wish to disprove my belief, then it would be wise to begin by explaining how your Post 63 explained away his case.

That doesn't make any sense. The post is a rebuttal, and includes what you are asking for. Do you want me to rewrite it for you? This is the part in a debate where the other person rebuts it, if they disagree.

[podium123456]

begin by explaining how your Post 63 explained away his case.

This. Do it.

It's your turn. That's how a debate works.

[podium123456]

Hey podium!
(hey what?)
I don't have to rewrite your rebuttal!
(my what?)
Why? BECAUSE THERE'S COPY AND PASTE.

I have no idea why you quoted that post, and then said everything you did. It had nothing to do with post 63.

crackpipemuch?

[podium123456]

everyone who acts erratic is on crack.

it's a proven fact.

jack.

[podium123456]

Podium's wagon is excellent. I wish it would hurry to a lynch already.

Remind me again what your case is against me. Because so far all you have done is admitted that you are sheeping fate.

I think your *being cute* card is just about used up.

[podium123456]

Cute?

MY AVATAR IS FUCKING SMOKING. THAT'S NOT CUTE, THATS FUCKING DANGEROUS MAN.

cute as in laughy-jokey-i'm gonna be the cool funny guy, and no one will suspect a thing.

And yeah. I'm all for lynching your ass. Cuz GW was all like "here's a case", and you were like "WIFOMWIFOMWIFOMWIFOM", and that's not a rebuttal at all. Try harder, brosky. Try harder. Oh, you still don't know what I'm talking about? Here:

i mean, do you really think that as scum, i would genuinely be asking that?

THAT. IS YOUR ENTIRE REBUTTAL. JUST THAT.

This is the third time i have said post 63... why haven't you got it through your thick head that that is the rebuttal in question?

What you quoted was part of a rebuttal to fate.

[podium123456]

YES I THINK YOU WOULD GENUINELY BE ASKING THAT.

then you are a f'ing idiot.

I can't imagine any situation in which town would want a breadcrumb pointed out to them, on the first goddamn page.

Neither can i... which means it's much more likely that i was asking if you were serious by way of that question... because i knew that whatever 'breadcrumb' you thought you found was nothing more than a made up scummy move on him... so i wanted to see what kind of ridiculous concoction you were going to come up with.

[podium123456]

I'm approaching voting for podium too. This original points aren't really pinging my scumdar, but his reaction is. It feels like a bit like "but you shouldn't have caught me for that!"

give me an example of what you mean by 'you shouldnt have caught me for that'?

[podium123456]

^^

dont get all hyped up and posting every second because you think you caught someone fate. you might end up seeing me lynched, but you'll find out you were way off.

give me more than 5 damn minutes to respond to this flurry of attacks, ass.

[podium123456]

It's hard to point out precise examples, because it's your overall play.

Basically, your defence is often "that's not a scum tell" rather than "I'm not scum"

i dont recall that ive said anything wasn't a scum tell, or even implied it. can you explain what you mean.

remember, i have 2 cases on me... one is that i thought fate was serious (by fate), and the other is that i thought fate was joking (by gw). (am i the only one that realizes that?) what i have done is tried to tell each that they are mistaken, and then explain why. it takes two different approaches.

[podium123456]

then you are a f'ing idiot.

here are exampled FOR YA Seacore:
"You really think Id do THIS as scum?"
"yeah"
"u stupid"

i would be surprised if anyone would disagree that it would be highly unlikely for a scum to ask that question, with the intent of "oh wow, he said a pr just dropped a breadcrumb... let me ask him what it was so i can find out what role that guy is". it would be

extremely

naive... therefore you are a f'ing idiot to think that's really what was going on.

furthermore, why dont you let seacore handle his own discussions.

[podium123456]

That is not my fucking point, don't you dare misrep me.

you can take your 'dont you dare' business and shove it.

read:

I believe you knew what he meant all along and simply wanted to paint him in a negative light, perhaps to come back to it later in some BS case you'd try to build.

Tell me how your case isn't that i knew he was joking, but wanted to try and paint him in a negative light. Because that's what this says.

[podium123456]

fate shut the fuck up.

it doesn't even make sense for you to provide that quote for the discusion that gw and i are currently having. if you had a brain, you would realize that that quote was directed at YOUR case against me. which is different than GW's.

[podium123456]

So you tailor your responses to the cases against you and NOT to what your play and motivations were at the time?

you are a f'ing spaz, and this doesn't even make sense.

the question is whether or not GW's case involved me knowing that you were joking.

i have no idea what you mean about 'tailoring my responses to the cases made against me, and not to my motivations'. the quote you provided was an explanation of my motives.

[podium123456]

While you're waiting for that, can you please respond to the inconsitencies that fate has pointed out.

This is a precise example of "debating the tells" that I'm talking about. Your defence is all about other people's arguments, not about your actions and alignment.

do you guys realize how much i am being freaking hit with right now? i get started on a response, and click the thread and see four or five more posts that i have to respond to. and with fate acting like an idiot and just talking to hear himself talk, it's a freaking challenge to stay on top of things. so please stop asking me to respond to things.

ive been trying to finish a response to your accusation. if i can ever finish that, i will move on to others.

[podium123456]

Your defence is all about other people's arguments, not about your actions and alignment.

I think that's pretty disingenuous. My action was that i mistook fate's initial post as a serious comment, when it was a joke. I said that from the very beginning, and there's not much else that could be said about it.

Since then, i have had to defend against two different theories that contradict each other at their base... i dont understand how i can defend myself without discussing their arguments, and if need be, showing how weak/unlikely they might be.

Here are some examples:

If i'm scum then why do i need to try and get a read on your alignment, dumbass?

What exactly was i caught doing?

.......................

ORLY? Explain to me how my comment showed that i was concerned for seacore.

But hold on... i just realized something... what i

basically

said was 'is this a serious post'... i just said asked it in a different way. You are acting like i made some big case about Fate and voted him or said he was scummy or something... all i basically did was ask if it was a serious post. When i found out it wasn't, i dropped it. You're telling me that is a scumtell?

Sheesh... i just solved everything you have against me right there.

Next dilemma.

To me, these are reading increasingly more as you engaging in a discussion as to why the 'scum tells' are justified, rather than why you aren't scum.

The only example here that involves discussing whether or not something is a justifiable scum tell, is the third quote about me comparing what i did, to asking if it was a serious vote. And that doesn't even involve an accusation that was directed at me... that was me using an analogy, and asking if my analogy was a scumtell.

The first two examples don't, and it looks like a migggghty big stretch to try and connect them to your accusation. For example, me asking questions in the second quote has nothing to do with whether or not the accusations are legitimate scumtells -- not even close.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As a matter of fact, the only time i can recall doing what you are accusing me of was earlier with the 'you're a f'ing idiot' discussion. I said it was unlikely to actually happen, and i still stand by that.

The fact that this seems to be the sole reason for you jumping on my bandwagon (excessively questioning the validity of scumtells) makes me pretty damn suspicous of you. Add in the illogical connections you tried to make above, and the suspicion grows. Almost as if you thought you could slip in quickly with a vague comment like that, and think i would be too overwhelmed with everything else to notice and/or defend against it.

well, i'm not.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Seacore

[podium123456]

ok that's like 2 hours ive wasted on this site just now. im taking a break, ill address the rest later tonight.

and i hope fate pisses all in his pink ruffly panties because i haven't answered him yet.

[podium123456]

Almost as if you thought you could slip in quickly with a vague comment like that, and think i would be too overwhelmed with everything else to notice and/or defend against it.

So the part where I direct your attention precisely to my points? This is the part where i was hoping you wouldn't notice?

You prefaced your vote (that you had just said you were going to think about over the weekend) with one of those vague comments. When i asked you for an example, you made another general comment. Only after i asked you a second time did you provide specifics.

[podium123456]

This is with the exception of podium responding to his inconsistencies.

That's twice you've said that. Just because fate craps out of his mouth and says it's me being inconsistent, it doesn't mean it actually is. Where have i been inconsistent, since you seem so eager to hear me address it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Fate ive waded through the last few pages of your post-a-thon... between all your yelling, arguing other peoples cases, and posting quotes irrelevant to anything being discussed, i don't really see this big contradiction or whatever it is you are calling it.

I'll address this post, as the content of it seems to have your dander up.

Clarification: my case on you isn't that you thought i was serious, its that you had a gut scumreaction to my post and asked what breadcrumbs. NOW you have degenerated into this bullshit reasoning: "because i knew that whatever 'breadcrumb' you thought you found was nothing more than a made up scummy move on him... "

degenerated? where did i degenerate from? i'm not following you.

^^ This implies that you DID think I was serious, as in scumserious. AKA you thought it was scum move. Which is just you retroactively justifying why you asked me in such a weird way.

Uh... yeah, because i did.* When have i said that i DIDN'T think you were serious?

*in case anyone is paying attention, fate is supporting my explanation against GW's accusation/vote here.

So your stories are:
1. I thought you were being scum Fate making up shit, so I wanted to know what kind of BS you would come up with as a breadcrumb.
2. I was asking you if you were serious in a roundabout way by asking what the supposed breadcrumb was.

SO WHICH, FUCKIN, IS IT?

??

It's the same one... the one it has always been. How do those two statements conflict?

Combine them, and it is what actually happened.

[podium123456]

#176

200 TONS OF IN YOUR FACE GD PERRY MASON LEVEL AWESOMENESS

Srsly. Freaking impressive summary of this entire slopfest.

[slow clap.gif]

[podium123456]

Uh... yeah, because i did.* When have i said that i DIDN'T think you were serious?

"I WAS JUST ASKING IF YOU WERE SERIOUS OR NOT."

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO CONVINCE YOU YOU ARE INDEED SCUM?

I thought you were serious. I asked that question to find out if you really were. when i saw that you werent, that was it. Me questioning you doesn't mean that i really thought you weren't serious... it means that i didnt know for sure... hence the question.

i see where you are trying to go, but i dont think you can get there with what actually happened. i dont see conflicting/inconsistent/whatever stories here.

[podium123456]

On to review the Case on Podium

–

The whole ‘That’s pure scum-reaction’ on regarding the non-existant breadcrumb is junk. Sorry, not convincing in the least.

Im not clear what you mean here... can you clarify.

And I can’t say that his defensive posture and escalation into name-calling really sells me either. It’s clear frustration, but that can be any alignment.

I believe you will find that the name-calling originated on the other side.

And yes, when being attacked by 4 people (and 1 maniac) all at once, concerning conflicting theories, you may find a defensive posture appear from the defendant.

Because the attack on Implosion was bad. It’s already been laid out but Seacore’s ‘I’m used to being wagonned so I am paranoid’ statement is soft self-meta and pointless. So Implosion was right to question it.

But it wasn't pointless... it was the

REASON

why he took fate (and nacho's) posts seriously. Besides that, his paraphrase was in a different universe as to what seacore was implying. a universe that makes the comment look overly scummy.

Do you think his paraphrase was accurate and non-scummy?

Post 90 reinforces the lack of scum-hunting. Here he characterizes a post by VV as scummy. VV earns +scumpoints. Is that suspicion followed up on? Not at all. It’s just a pot-shot floating out into the ether that didn’t gain traction and thus is forgotten.

What more is there to follow up with? He asked a few no-thought questions.

If i had asked some little no-brainers like that, would you be as worried about me and scumhunting? Because i can easily pull 4 or 5 of those out of thin air.

160 where suddenly Seacore is obv-scum (what happened to VV?) after Fate laid the groundwork as to why Seacore might be worth suspicion is just moving a vote to move it.

+scumpoints doesn't mean top scum choice. it means +scumpoints.

tbh i haven't even read fate's posts regarding seacore.

[podium123456]

Podium just called everyone on his wagon idiots, dawg. No significant ways himself defended he. Nope. Also, I disagree with your read on me...

I only called one person on my wagon an idiot. Although you aren't far behind.

ITS WRONG BRO. YOU GOTTA LEARN TO READ THE REASONS DESPITE THE JOKING, MAN. READ THE REASONS. Also bro, give ya reasoning. You said I was a bully, you didn't say why. You said post #111, and didn't say why. It's all based on ignorance, man. You don't like this style of play, brosesame street. It's okay, though. You don't gotta hate on me like that.

"this style of play"... you mean shit for brains style?

all you have done is given the bob hope routine so far, and try to pile on me with nonsensical jibberish. the one time you tried to engage in a meaningful discussion with me, you ended up crapping out of your mouth and then acting like it was a work of art. he doesn't need to say 'why' he mentioned post 111... anybody with one eye and half sense could read post 111 and understand why it was bad.

i'll go ahead and tell you that it's because you were discussing/quoting something completely irrelevant to the discussion GW and i were having. i hope u c wut i did thur.

/rant

[podium123456]

What the hell? Implosion didn't say ANYTHING about me or nacho's posts.

Hey spaz... the reason that doesn't make sense to you is because you completely missed the details of that exchange.

How bout you just let other people answer their own questions... especially if you are going to keep writing incorrect shit that i have to keep coming in to correct.

But no. You're all fuckin defense.

How bout you get hit with 4-5 people all at the same time throwing accusations at you, and asking for you to respond to everything immediately. See how 'defensey' you might sound if you tried to keep everything on track.

And what exactly did you call it when i stopped in the middle of "accuse podium day 2010" to make a case against seacore? was that 'all fuckin defense' too?

[podium123456]

And what exactly did you call it when i stopped in the middle of "accuse podium day 2010" to make a case against seacore? was that 'all fuckin defense' too?

I believe that's called an OMGUS defense

Heh, F you seacore. i pissed away all my other waste-time-on-the-computer time here today, so i'm in rant-mode now... proceed with caution.

And no, your smiley face won't make me forget that i asked you to show me where my inconsistencies were.



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

THATS WHERE THE INCONSISTENCY IS:
1. You are either confused, "ARE YOU FOR REAL FATE?"
OR
2. You are seeing a scum move, and asking "WHERE DAT BREADCRUMB AT?"

There is no inconsistency there, knucklehead. One is not exclusive of the other. I was confused if i was seeing a scum move, so i asked to find out.

THINK.


NINJA EDIT:

@Podium's recent posting:

STILL no Fate read.

STILL no explanation of the contradiction that I clearly outlined

GIVE ME 5 MINUTES YOU GD SPAZ.

[podium123456]

Instead it's "I don't like why you find me guilty, so you must be guilty!"

Right. Because i liked the reasons why spaz/vibe/GW/Nacho found me guilty.

/sarcasm

[podium123456]

So no he has not responded.

no i hadn't responded yet...

because all of you faggots are sitting around saying things and then mashing the refresh button every 2 seconds to see if have responded yet.

[podium123456]

YOU HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO THIS SINGLE LINE. THIS IS POST #111. IF IT WAS SO TERRIBLE THEN WHY DID YOU IGNORE THE POINT OF IT?

this is the 4th time i have had to tell you that post 63 was the rebuttal in question. what you quoted (and the line you singled out) was a part of a rebuttal to fate. it had nothing to do with what GW and i (and you since you stuck your nose in) were discussing.

by now, i understand how simple logic confuses you... but am i really going to have to explain this a 5th time?

[podium123456]

So no he has not responded.

no i hadn't responded yet...

because all of you

faggots

are sitting around saying things and then mashing the refresh button every 2 seconds to see if have responded yet.

Calling somebody an idiot, or mentally retarded for their opinions and arguments is fine by me, but implying that something is "bad" by saying it's homosexual is pretty offensive, so lets try and avoid that shall we?

pshhh... what if i had said all u queers? would that be bad too?

so then was it bad when that show was named it? that was made by gays?

im pro-gay, and i dont really have a problem saying faggot in an environment where we are all being derogatory. but im not going to get in a big debate over it... obviously i wont say it anymore since it offends you, and the mod can edit it if he wants.

[podium123456]

And on that note

Limited access for the weekend, christmas shopping and Harry Potter here I come

No, no no sweetheart...

Dont keep avoiding my request for you to show me where i was inconsistent. with all this posting, there is more than enough time for you to tell us before you go v/la.

also tell me why you think im only voting you because i dont like your reasons... when i obviously haven't liked anyone's reasons.

[podium123456]

Its not so much my point about them being exclusive as it is your thought process not lining up:

You see this boys and girls? This is an example of someone shifting the argument.

At this point you are either trolling me, or you are someone who shifts arguments.

I have no desire to keep partying with someone who does either. The topic has been discussed ad nauseum, anyway.

[podium123456]

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR REBUTTAL BECAUSE IT = "REALLY?"!!!!
UNDERSTAND NOW?

why cant you freaking understand that you are talking about something different than what GW and i were discussing when you intervened into our discussion?

you would think after being told that 3 or 4 times, a person might go 'hmmm maybe im mixed up a little... let me reread over all of the exchanges and make sure im right'.

but no, not you. you are a special breed. you just turn up the volume to 11 and keep slamming your head into the wall over and over. And in those moments when you regain consciousness and pick yourself up... right before you slam your head into the wall again... you snap your suspenders and say "boy i wonder what it's like to be one of those dum peeple."

SLAM

*thud*

[podium123456]

Calling somebody an idiot, or mentally retarded for their opinions and arguments is fine by me, but implying that something is "bad" by saying it's homosexual is pretty offensive, so lets try and avoid that shall we?

BTW, a LOT of people would be just as offended if the word 'retarded' was used in a derogatory manner. So your big white horse isn't that much higher than mine.

[podium123456]

Shifting argument is bad how?

You kept making a big stink about how i had contradicted myself, or told 2 different stories or whatever. Enough so that seacore parroted it, to add pressure to me.

Ive spent a lot of time trying to explain to you that there wasn't a contradiction... you kept not understanding or not thinking about it or whatever... and kept insisting that there was.

finally i explained it in a way that you apparently understood... but instead of acknowledging that there wasn't a contradiction, you shifted the argument... in such a manner that it wasn't obvious that you were shifting it. that way, to outside appearances, it looks like your original point was valid, and then you blend it into another argument that you perpetuate.

it's a dirty debating trick. and even if it wasn't intentional, i'm not going to waste anymore time with someone that doesn't realize how shifting an argument is bad.

it wouldnt do me any good to keep talking to you anyway. its pretty clear you are the type of person that wont be satisfied until you hear me say 'you're right, you caught me'. well, you're wrong and you didn't. i really dont care if you vote me or not, i feel that i have justified my actions to any outside parties (with a brain) that take the time to read through all of this intercourse - and that's all i really care about at this point.

i

was

worried about the town for a bit (what with GW and the IRLI nacho) but thankfully VV and MoI came in with some well thought out, rational discussion that has relieved my worries a bit.

(IRLI means in real life idiot... i just made that up and now im going to copyright it)

[podium123456]

In the words of Abraham Lincoln:

Blow it out your ass.

Votecount (as of post 232)
GhostWriter: 1 (VasudeVa) L-6
podium: 4 (Fate, GhostWriter, Nacho, Seacore) L-3
Seacore: 2 (implosion, podium) L-5
VibeBox: 2 (Magna, Zinive) L-5

[podium123456]

@ everyone else: i plan on going back through the thread to examine the side-arguments that have been occurring, as well as the other input that has been unrelated to me.

but first i'm going to need a day or so, so that i can mainline a fifth of vodka and properly recover from "Accuse Podium Day 2010".

[podium123456]

Thanks for playing. You put up a pretty good fight if its any consolation.

Well you didn't. Seriously... the only reason i'm not worried about what me calling a stop to the podium/fate show might look like to others, is because im confident that by reading your input they will understand why i did, and agree it was the right call.

Normally, i would feel compelled to take the conversation as far as the other person would go.

night night toots!

[podium123456]

Podium, why are you refusing to give out your reads of Fate/Me?

i'm not... i answered you the first time you asked, and i will answer you now. (Spaz's requests dont count ) But get ready for some walls... hey, you asked...

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I don't have a definite read on fate right now. it's obvious by the crowd's reaction to him that he has a very... 'distinct' personality (im referring to the comments implying that he is always spazzy/yelly/etc.). having never played with him, i dont know if he is genuinely someone that is all over the place, completely off topic at times, and overly aggressive as town... OR if he is a capable scum that is trying to trip me up by overwhelming me with text, trying to make me get confused, while filling the thread up with all of it -- and thinking that the end result will be a confused nonsensical contradicting podium of which the town would easily lynch.

so you might ask me if i think his case on me is scummy... and i have to say that i cant say. i genuinely have a null read on him. i dont think it is a very strong case (because i dont think concerns a very big situation), and i feel he has tunneled on me and blown it up much larger than it actually is... but at the same time, i can understand his point (a little), from his point of view -- it's just not what happened. i wouldn't expect a rational/calm headed townie to drive it into the ground as hard and fast as he has... but i get the feeling he isn't a calm/rational type of guy.

however, i

dont

understand why he lifted the vote earlier and moved to seacore, gave me some light hearted 'i still want that answered, you understand' posts... and then moved back on me

before

i answered. Perhaps because he thought i was ignoring him? And he has now ended up resuming his 'you are 100% going to die' attitude because i got tired of his games... as if there isn't enough data already to get a read on me... hell he even TELLS me that i put up a good fight against the flurry of accusations that came in on me. that tells me that he is probably voting for me for personal reasons instead of scummy reasons... and it feels like he is the type of person that would do that.

i would even go so far as to call him null leaning town, based on that.

so... there ya go. that good enough to understand what i think about him? lol.

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your read is easier... lol. as you are already aware, your activity was pretty bad... and as i told you, i thought that earlier post looked like a low effort scum attempt to fill your 'scumhunting' quota.

but 176 really

was

a superb post. nobody knows my alignment but me... but you summed up the thread almost

verbatim

as to how i would have (maybe even a little better). since i know that i am town, (cue fate/nacho entering with some ridiculous comment about me speaking like this) i obviously find it very towny of you.

besides the fact that i agree with it (which really isnt worth a lot to others, or even you) there was a LOT of shit to sift through. the fact that you condensed it so well, and so accurately to what happened (even if you take out the opinions, and just consider the factual timelines/arguments) it makes me believe you really took the time to analyze all of that slop... where i think scum wouldn't have been that interested in trudging through the walls, and just generalized something.

so, yeah. if you want a read from me, i would say you are my top town read right now.

and yes, i imagine nachofate will break their capslock buttons informing us all of the obvious... that you stuck up for me, so of course im going to call you town. well, that's just how it is boys.

but dont forget that seacore also stuck up for me, and i ended up criticizing his play and bringing up the possibility that he might be part of a scumteam... BEFORE he voted me. in other words, im not just calling VV town because he backed my story.

/vodka

[podium123456]

Last point:

Shifting argument is bad how?

Is it a dirty trick to make my originial point look valid?

Yes.

Fate, surely even you can understand why i dont want to continue debating with someone that admits to pulling dirty tricks like it's no big deal.

Besides... it doesnt matter what my answers are to your remaining questions... they will be wrong... just like everything else i've said to you. If you cant get a read off of me based on how i held up under this torrent of scrutiny and/or from the volumes of text that have been written, then perhaps you are more suited to play checkers.

[podium123456]

I don’t particularly find Seacore’s reaction and explanation very credible so you are not going to convince me that Implosion’s reasoning was bad.

The credibility of his reaction/explanation is a different issue than how that statement was or wasn't in context... which was implosions beef.

How do you feel about his paraphrase?

The further no-thoughts would have been a very logical place to go if you really thought his post was originally scummy.

I don't understand what you mean here.

When the only suspicion you have articulated outside of Implosion was VV for having scumpoints I find it hard to believe you would ignore what constitutes one of your two scum reads.

And did you just say you were not reading Fate’s post regarding Seacore? Why the hell not? Playing the ‘He’s annoying so I’ll just ignore his posts’ game is at best childish and at worst scumtastic.

AGAIN... +scumpoints doesn't necessarily mean it is a top scum choice. It could take the person from null to null leaning scum, or from town to null leaning town, etc.. I had more than 2 scumreads at that point, btw.

"you find it hard to believe i would ignore..." ??? what do you mean? right after that post is when i started taking fire from all directions, and VV didn't post anything else until the end of that episode. what did you think i should do? make a post in the middle of everything and go 'hey everybody, just want to restate that i thought that post of VV's was scummy". ???

And no, i didn't say i WASN'T reading Fates stuff... i said i HADN'T read it yet, because of everything else. I plan on going over all of it later.

[podium123456]

Post 146: The point is that you wrote it as "GW is saying that I thought Fate was joking".

It's a semantics difference about 'thought' or 'knew'... but since you think i am scum, logic would dictate that it's understood that i 'knew' for your case. The point is for you to come out with a 'dont u dare misrep me' attitude, like i had maliciously and purposefully turned your words around, was disingenuous and an over-reaction. A simple clarification would have sufficed... especially when it isn't exactly obvious what you thought was wrong.

176: but, as I have pointed out already, it is nothing more that Nacho's vote defined. If Nacho's is seen as RVS, Fate's was RVS. The corelation between the two is undeniable.

It was clear to me that nacho was joking, because of the delivery.

But this goes back to my other post that you didn't address... if your argument is that they both say the same thing, and that i was hatching this nefarious plan, then why didn't i attack nacho?

this is what shuts down your theory. think about it.

What the hell is good about him just saying "herp derp" until he has multiple pages in his iso making it look like he's posting well when most of it is pointless drivel and contentless babble that has no point?

Quit getting so hung up on the fact that i put 'herp' and 'derp' in my post. The points i made in that post were valid, and substantive... don't act like they weren't.

My 101 is not saying that at all. You tell me, where was my discussion going? In circles. I don't feel like restating my point and restating my point and restating my fucking point. Oh, just because he says "Nuh uh" to what I say, that makes it true? No.

That's not what happened at all.

In post 63, i raised the point i bolded above... as well as highlighted that all i did was ask him and drop it... if i had this master scheme planned out, dont you think i would have... oh i dont know... USED IT? you act like i actually made the case against him and kept pushing it... and i didnt even come close.

That is hardly 'nuh uhh'... you avoided answering it then, and you still avoid answering it, even though i have directed you there several times. Why is that? Because you realize it pokes holes in your 'theory' and you dont want to have to back down.

The lack of any follow-up behind each of his "cases" seems to me as scum trying to point at people once said scum has been called out for lack of hunting, but not having anything to back it up with due to either knowing that they are aiming at townies who aren't guilty or scum partners they aren't willing to bus at the moment.

Sigh... pay attention kids.

There were 3 'cases' (although i wouldnt really call VV's observation a 'case')

1. VV's 'case'. There IS no follow up to 'those are low-thought questions'... it's an observation... what should i follow up with? Should i have repeated the observation? Tell me.

2. Seacores 'case'. I FOLLOWED UP ON IT.

3. My other case was on implosion.... AND HE HADNT RESPONDED. How should i have followed up with that? Tell me? Repeated it as well?

You have quite the knack of being pretty damn disingenuous -- if not flat out misrepresenting -- with your language. Too bad there's all that text to prove you wrong.

I sneaked a peak ahead, someone already answers your first problem with MoI's post.
The next thing, though... He wasn't even attacking you over it, he called it a nulltell, and you defended against that for what reason, exactly?

It's because i didn't understand who he was directing the first part to. I thought he was criticizing me, and saying my story 'wasn't convincing'... in the next part he said 'that doesn't sell me either'... so i thought all of that was connected and related to my argument.

Post 204: You claim one is not excluxive of the other, yet how can you be confused by a post in the way Fate implied, and yet also be sure of something about the post, in the way Fate implied?

Restate the question, im not sure what you are asking.

239: Okay, cut that out. "I'm too busy defending" is not a good defence. The best defense in mafia is a good offense. Meaning if you really wanted to prove how town you are, you'd attack someone you found scummy and prove why that is, instead of spending time split 50/50 between defending and complaining about having to defend.

Fuck. You. Look at the timestamps on those posts, and what was said. People were hitting me with posts left and right, and then asking why i hadn't responded yet... as if i was ignoring them because they were valid points or something. Yesterday was NOT a typical scumday. And this isn't the only game i was attending to.

and again... IGNORE the fact that i took the time to attack someone (and make a case) i found scummy right in the middle of all that.

i LITERALLY did what you said i should have done. disengenious as hell.


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GW refuses to acknowledge the points i made that shoot holes in the biggest part of his case. his language is disengenious as hell, as PROVEN above.

i want to hear how he justifies some of his misreps.

scummy behavior ='s scummy read

[podium123456]

Let's not forget that the MAIN part of GW's case is that i am scum that turned a light hearted RVS post into a serious attack, so i could paint that person as being scummy. I often look for the same type of behavior occuring during RVS, and use it to find scum.

EXCEPT I DIDNT DO THAT.

I ASKED THE PERSON A QUESTION TO CLARIFY IF THEY WERE SERIOUS, AND WHEN I REALIZED THEY WERENT, I

DROPPED

IT.

I DIDNT PUSH IT... I D R O P P E D IT.

I DIDNT PUSH ANYTHING.... am i the only one that gets it? If i had come up with that big plan, why didnt i ACT ON IT?

this is separate from "why didnt i do it to nacho" which is just as illogical to his case.

your case is full of holes.

[podium123456]

podium has blatantly done no scumhunting at all

Nacho: neutral. Neither of these two did anything to arouse suspicion IMO.

Look at nacho's ISO. Tell me what scumhunting he has done.

Compare that to mine.

Are you fucking serious?

[podium123456]

also, implosion, dont think you can ignore my post 80 just because all eyes are on me.

[podium123456]

EBWOP: ^^ disregard

[podium123456]

These two have a strange dynamic between them. Podium's jump to Seacore in ISO 35 is odd IMO, especially after he defended Seacore when he was attacking me. The jump seems ill-thought out, erratic and unexpected.

Ill thought out and erratic? What?? How is what i said 'ill thought out' or erratic? I explained it pretty damn thoroughly.

And I like how you call my case (that is substantive) unexpected... but not seacores vote... of which he had just said he was going to wait and think about over the weekend.

Btw, i didn't necessarily 'defend' seacore... hell, i raised the possibility of him being your scum partner. misrep some more.

So much in the thread to comment on, so much to scumhunt from, and you think that what you saw as a minor misrepresentation is the scummiest thing there?

It was the beginning of page four, and my case had dominated the game... there wasn't that much in the thread, from my point of view, at that time...

And just to clarify what I was talking about earlier with regards to Seacore (way back on page 2): I was referring

exclusively

to the part of his post that had mentioned him always being called out as scum on day one. The rest of the post, although supposedly his reason for saying that, is unimportant IMO.

You dont have to keep clarifying... it's pretty clear that i know what you meant.

This makes no sense to me... he said "i did x because of y", and you dont think y is in context or important? it's the REASON that he found x suspicious.

Furthermore, your paraphrase is a complete misrepresentation.

*HEY GW* -- THIS is an actual example of someone trying to make a mountain out of a molehill during RVS... as opposed to your phantom example of me doing it.

MoI is right, podium has blatantly done no scumhunting at all

BTW, are you aware that i have done more scumhunting in this thread than you have? MISREP SOME MOAR, SCUM.

______________________________________________________________
Votecount (as of post 254)
GhostWriter: 2 (podium, VasudeVa) L-5
podium: 5 (Fate, GhostWriter, implosion, Nacho, Seacore) L-2
VibeBox: 2 (Magna, Zinive) L-5

[podium123456]

Quit getting so hung up on the fact that i put 'herp' and 'derp' in my post. The points i made in that post were valid, and substantive... don't act like they weren't.

I assure, I am not acting. They weren't.

Find me one person outside of this thread that thinks those points weren't valid explanations/rebuttals. This is a scummy misrep.

I grow tired of using the phrase "for later".

Ah yes... the ole "oh nm, i thought you were serious" to "remember when i said nm? well i was lying... i think you were serious" switch.

/sarcasm

That's one crappy method of setting up a plan like that... ya know.

Tell me this... if i had just wrote "are you serious?", and then dropped it when he said no, would it still be a scumtell?

This is where your case. shuts. down.

Then again, we're supposed to believe you didn't know Fate was joking, so I guess it follows that we're supposed to buy that your big statement is such a groundshaker

Dont lose sight of the fact that you are the only person in this thread that thinks i knew he was joking. Even fate thinks that i thought he was serious.

1. Let us begin with knowing that "follow-up" doesn't mean "continue to call them scum". You ended up pulling a 180 on VV. All we had to go on was that you liked the fact that they defended you. A HORRIBLE reason, and, quite frankly, not much of a follow-up, if you can even call it that, which I cannot. You do not even really go in-depth about the defense.

2. Posts 87 and 95 counter that. After that, there is no more mention of him until the vote, which, as pointed out before, came after Fate began showing increased interest in Seacore as a possibility for scum. Oh, but you didn't read any of that...

3. Repeated it? Yes. Yes you should have. And broke it down for people when they wouldn't listen. And then asked why they didn't agree with it. And if then gone from there. Or you could have argued with the people who began to pick it apart in front of you.

1. So then it isn't a matter of me not following up then, is it? What you are doing here is shifting the argument from your initial accusation, into one about me moving from +scumpoints to town.

2. Again... a shift... the accusation was 'a lack of ANY followup'. yet you acknowledge here that i did... now it becomes that i didnt follow up enough to your satisfaction.

3. are you kidding me? you're telling me that yes, because i didnt repeat my case, it is a scumtell. holy shit dude.

This is all extremely scummy behavior from you.

Or you're set to cruise-control with your defending.

Are you really this focused on trying to paint me scum, that you cant even accept that i misunderstood who he was directing his UNSPECIFIED quote to?

239: Okay, cut that out. "I'm too busy defending" is not a good defence. The best defense in mafia is a good offense. Meaning if you really wanted to prove how town you are, you'd attack someone you found scummy and prove why that is, instead of spending time split 50/50 between defending and complaining about having to defend.

and again... IGNORE the fact that i took the time to attack someone (and make a case) i found scummy right in the middle of all that.

i LITERALLY did what you said i should have done. disengenious as hell.

Yet you spend so much time defending that your attacks get swallowed up, when they do happen.

More BLATANT shifting the argument. First it was that i DIDN'T attack anyone i found scummy... then it becomes i did, but they got swallowed up. I hope people are catching this.

[podium123456]

GW's case:

Podium asked fate if he was serious, and even though he said 'oh nm' when he found out fate wasn't serious, he was going to use it later to attack fate.

NOT that i actually did make an issue out of it and pressed forward with it, claiming that i thought he was lying when he said he wasn't serious. NOT that later in the game i came out and said 'i think you were lying when you said you weren't serious', and made a case then.

No.

It's that he

thinks

that is what i was PLANNING to do.

That's the basis of his entire case. (minus the misrepresentations and shifting of arguments)

I was curious as to how he was going to resolve all of this... now i know, and i have seen enough.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Ghostwriter

Whether or not people will actually read and understand the scumminess of his behavior, and the absurdity of his case, i have no idea. But I imagine that most of the sheep are already brainwashed into hanging me...

Fate's case is at least somewhat plausible (although it would involve a very naive/stupid scum)... GW's case isn't even a case... it's a PREDICTION of something (that's just barely plausible) happening.

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To all of the sheep who are saying that my reactions/behavior to all of the accusations is what is warranting my lynch (mainly the accusation of 'oh you complain too much')... SHOW WHERE I HAVE ACTED 1/4 AS DECEPTIVELY as what i have just PROVEN GW has done.

Bet you cant.

Seacore's vote is still very suspicious to me, and he is still on the hook for what i have requested.

[podium123456]

Nacho's been tunneling podium all game, and sheeping Fate. But he's also given his own reasons, has been asking questions, etc. He fought for his viewpoint, and provided evidence.

Why are there so many sheep in this game?

Just because he thinks he was making a point, and says so, doesn't actually mean that he was. 'Provided evidence'? sigh... what he 'provided' was something COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the issue. I have explicitly explained why to him 6 times. Are you as dense as he is? Do you really believe he was making a valid point with the post he quoted? Do i need to start explaining it to you now?

This is an example of someone NOT really paying attention to the content of the thread as they read along.

And the simple fact that you are painting nacho's ISO as rational and good scumhunting leaves me completely speechless.

Fact is, you should have done MUCH more scumhunting in this long period of time.

What you just described was much MORE than nacho did... yet you painted nacho as someone who was properly scumhunting, and me as someone who 'blatantly hasnt done any'.

That is a FACT.

Resolve that, genius.

You defended Seacore's phrasing of it, saying that my interpretation of what he said was wrong. You said "It doesn't amount to that at all. Not even close" which it does, you just misunderstood what I was saying.

Third time... i have never misunderstood what you are saying... the problem is that you are wrong.

It

does

mean what you paraphrased if it was a stand alone comment... but it was obviously connected to the sentence in front of it... as a REASON why he thought it was serious. You learn this type of logic/deduction in second grade. What you did was separate it, and try to turn it into a scummy statement... even though that wasn't the intent of the author.

I bet you wont find one person in this thread that thinks your paraphrase was even close to accurate, when taken in context.

You took his statement OUT OF CONTEXT, to make it sound scummy.

FACT.

It's the oldest trick in the book. Why you can't comprehend what i'm saying is beyond me.

You haven't committed to any reads that have legitimate reasoning behind them.

Neither have you.

See how that works?

[podium123456]

THIS COMMENT GETS ITS VERY OWN POST:

So much in the thread to comment on, so much to scumhunt from, and you think that what you saw as a minor misrepresentation is the scummiest thing there?

It was the beginning of page four, and my case had dominated the game... there wasn't that much in the thread, from my point of view, at that time...

What do you mean from your point of view? Everyone has access to the same information in-thread. There were plenty of other people making cases on people other than you (like my case on Seacore, although it was somewhat RVSy).

Implosion criticizes me for making a case about his vote on seacore.

When i tell him there wasn't that much to choose from at that point in the thread, he says 'sure there was, for instance there was my case on seacore'.


facepalmx1000

[podium123456]

I specifically point out that I don't see the attack. I'm pointing out that you defend a hell of a lot, and that if there is an attack in there, I don't see it. And you didn't point it out... OH, WAIT! You didn't put that part in there. So it's not shown in context. Way to go. Want to talk about misrep? You just posted a bit of that, out of context, so you could make it look like something it wasn't. Guys, why isn't this scum lynched yet?

What are you talking about? Are you telling me that you didn't see my accusations/vote and subsequent follow ups against seacore?

And even if you really did miss it (yeah, right) it is

still

shifting the argument from 'you didnt attack anyone' to 'ok you did, but i missed it'. It wouldn't have mattered if i had included the entire quote... it was irrelevant to my point... which is why i left it out.

I love when i get to argue against dumb scum.

1. Yes, yes it is a problem of you not following up.

2. You didn't continue after it, so it's not a follow-up. The case was challenged and you simply dropped it without rhyme or reason.

3. No, I'm implying that you didn't do anything with it, that's a problem. You didn't need to wait for implosion, considering other people had attacked your case. Why didn't you reiterate it? Why didn't you attack their attacks? Why didn't you spend those times you repeated how much you were being attacked and repeat how much implosion was scum instead?

1. Trying to be cute does not magically mean that you werent shifting the argument... or that you made valid point to start with. Give me an example of what you mean by 'following up', in that specific instance. If you tell me that i should have repeated it, it's going to get it's own post. No one questioned my observation, it wasn't a major scumtell, and the accused hadn't responded... how should i have followed up with it?

2. Wrong. After following up on it with him through discussion, i stated that i could understand what he did. You see that's how things work when people approach a debate with an open mind... not with their minds already made up, regardless of if they are right or not... or as scum who are trying to push a lynch.

3. Give it up scum. THIS is an example of hitting someone with a lot of text so that they end up actually getting caught in a big lie.

Observe:

First of all, you accuse me of not following up on a case in which the accused hadn't responded yet (i guess that's your magical predictive ability at work... except you got it wrong, since i did when he responded).

But regardless of the semantics of what a 'follow up' is or isnt... you tell me im scum because i 'didnt do anything with it'... i didnt reiterate or justify the case when others attacked it.

EXCEPT I

SPECIFICALLY

DID

EACH

TIME THAT IT WAS CRITICIZED.

here

and

here


game. set. match.

swing, scum.

[podium123456]

That was just an example. You were implying that everyone was attacking you, and that was why you weren't doing anything.

LOL Wrong. We weren't talking about me not doing anything, we were talking about your criticism of my criticism of your case... and my rebuttal that there wasn't a lot for ME to pick from in the thread at that point.

That's why what you said is such a mega facepalm.

[podium123456]

You know what, let's bring the whole gang in: fellow players, what say you on our little exchange here?

LOL.

Nice try scum... get hit with undeniable proof that you are lying, and pushing my lynch using bad logic and dirty tactics, and then puss out and say 'hey lets stop'.

You're gd right i want to hear what everybody thinks of it.

[podium123456]

I'm stopping nothing. I'd like for others to weigh in.

I would want others to step in too, if i had been laid open like you have been just now.

What you are doing, is waiting to see if others see what you see... that your behavior/case and undeniable lies look pretty damn bad.

If by some miracle they dont (which wouldn't surprise me with some of these players), then you will keep on trucking. If they do, then you will have to change your game and back down from this obvscum lynch you have been trying to push so hard.

You dont want to say anything until you get some idea of the herd's mentality, before you commit yourself to responding to what's just come out.

(which, by the way, implies you see me as town).

uh... no it doesn't. it implies that i see you as scum trying to force this lynch by whatever means necessary.

[podium123456]

Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

It means that from my point of view, the majority of what was going on in the thread was attacks on me, that i was arguing against... so i had to look to other cases that were being made, to look for anything scummy... of which there weren't many.

[podium123456]

So you

are

saying that you were not making your own cases because other people were attacking you?

that's right. i'm saying that when i made my own cases, i couldn't... because people were attacking me. so i had to make my own cases instead.

...seriously dude, just stop. trust me.

[podium123456]

[podium123456]

GW do you really need someone else to tell you that you lied (or at best, were wrong) when you said i didn't do the things that i proved that i did? Or that your case is based on a

prediction

of an unorthodox scum move occurring? Or that you repeatedly shifted arguments?

Those are the most damning things against you, and they aren't opinion... they are FACT. So what exactly is it that you are waiting to hear, before you respond?

Sounds to me like you either dont want to have to admit that you were wrong, or you want to see if you can still get away with pushing this crapheap.

[podium123456]

What are you so worried about having people chime in for?

can you read? im not 'worried' about anything. im pointing out that you are waiting to see the herd mentality before you commit yourself to responding. thats scummy.

like i said... there is no 'opinion' surrounding where i caught you lying... those are facts. i dont understand why you need to hear other people address it before you respond. unless it's because of the reasons i said.

[podium123456]

Wrong.

[podium123456]

Either way, you aren't the first vote on GhostWriter.

Thanks for the info, ill alert CNN.

[podium123456]

and lol at what an argument shifter you are. seriously dude... it's ok to say 'oops my bad' from time to time.

you make a big point to say that im not voting GW (assuming it was to make me look scummy), and when i say that i am, you go.. oh ok... well... well you weren't the first vote.

lmao

[podium123456]

I was just pointing out a mod error.

What the hell are you reacting about?

my bad, i didnt realize UT had put a votecount at the top of that page. i thought you had read through the whole case i had made against GW, and was saying it was susp. that i hadn't voted him. (since you didnt say that you hadn't read through everything)

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xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

@ UT - maybe just keep the votecounts in linear order, to prevent confusion. personally i dont care whether or not a votecount is at the top of a page.

[podium123456]

Explain your thought process, 100%, when you made post #18.

I already have, and you pissed all over it. Just like you have pissed all over everything i have said.

Freakin cripes man... turn off the tunnel vision already. If you think i am going to get sucked into your no-win, dirty tricks game again, you are crazy.

[podium123456]

Podium you do realize my case had come to the end of its line, and you basically have said "no thanks I wont' answer that my answer won't be good enough for you anyway?"

Dont give me that shit... you're only saying it's at the end because i said i was done answering you.

Before i said that, you showed no signs of slowing... you were yelling and pissing and playing dirty tricks, just like you have been doing this whole game. I finally had enough.

And you can save all your little amateur 'oh well, i was about to clear you... but if you wont answer my last question, i guess i have no choice but to vote for you' tricks. if you cant get a read off of everything i have said by now, you are bad at this.

you've been doing all you can do to try and find a crack in my story, or to catch me in a contradiction, or whatever, and you have turned up NOTHING. meanwhile, i'm laying out hard EVIDENCE of lies/misreps left and right.

i dont give a flying f if you vote for me, i'm trying to catch scum now.

have i made myself clear?

[podium123456]

yeah that's fine

[podium123456]

Yeah, see, you take far too long to answer questions for my taste.

Like all your posts are being carefully typed out, rechecked, and doublechecked for scumness.

yeah i really took a lot of time the other day, when i was answering accusations from 3 or 4 different people within minutes of them posting... as well as making cases.



this isn't the only game i am dealing with right now, spaz.

[podium123456]

I am basiaclly saying to you, if you are town, this is all you have to do to finally assuage my read of you and you are refusing.

I guess i didn't make myself clear enough.

FUCK YOU.

How's that?



p.s. -- all your bullshit about how many minutes it took for me to respond to different things is desperate as hell, and makes you look like a fool.

[podium123456]

^^

You're a joke. I really gave you too much credit throughout all of this... i thought you might be a decent player, but you're really just a petty person that thinks if they can yell loud and long enough it means they are good and that everyone will follow them off any cliff you decide to jump from.


And btw:

but you've made me concede much of my case (and other's cases on you are a much weaker than mine), and all that is left is this:

You haven't conceded one damn thing.

[podium123456]

AKA Timeline:
1. Fate CAPSLAWKESTYLE cases podium
2. Podium- I can't get a read on Fate. He seems to be intense and has a somewhat legitimate case on me, but it would require me to be really dumb/naice scum
3. Fate Ok Podium, you've almost convinced me you're town. But here's one thing that still continues to bother me REASONABLESTYLE
4. Podium YOUR A FUCKIN JOKE. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS. FUCK YOU. IM NOT RESPONDING

hah. you have your order wrong, toots.

it went:

1. (repeat many, many times)
4.
3.
2.

[podium123456]

this game should be in the GD mafiascum hall of fame.



and we're only on D1.

[podium123456]

If you think you are doing #2 right now you are wrong.

Thanks, i always appreciate the occasional assurance that im not presently shitting my pants.

*ba dum tshhhh*

here:

1. (many, many times)
4.
3.
2.
3.
4.

...if it makes you feel better.

the point was that you didn't start acting reasonable until i said i was through putting up with your crap. you cant piss all over someone and act like a maniac, and then say that they are being unreasonable or anti-town when they get tired of your shit.

at least, you cant with me.

I dont understand why you told me that you were going to vote for me unless i answered one final question from you, and then i said fuck you, and now we are still discussing it.

[podium123456]

(you still are talking to me like I'm town though, so you might want to come up with some BS reasons about when I turned into a town read)

You see, you apparently dont realize that i have never called you a scum read.

If you would have dialed down the crazy and dropped the tunnel glasses a little earlier, then maybe you wouldn't be so confused right now.

[podium123456]

I dont understand why you wont answer my final fucking question.

you cant constantly piss all over someone and act like a maniac, and then say that they are being unreasonable or anti-town when they get tired of your shit.

at least, you cant with me.

[podium123456]

Look, fate... i actually have a pretty strong town read on you at this point, and it sounds like you are leaning that way with me. But you aren't going to get me to answer any more of your questions about my case at this point... when i reach a decision like that, im not going to change.

Let me put it to you this way.... let's say that i AM scum. Do you think that i'm the type of guy that couldn't come up with a plausible way to answer this one question? ... Understand what i'm saying? So it really isn't as important as you might think it is. I feel it is more of a personal thing to you, than a scum hunting thing. I could be wrong, but that's just my impression of you right now.

My advice to you is to let this go for now, and start focusing all of your... 'energy' ... into areas that are more likely to actually contain scum.

[podium123456]

all this stuff he wrote

I think Implosion is probably just stupid.

[podium123456]

It isn't a game of quantity, it's a game of quality; I've done just as much as podium or more in much fewer posts. Hence, the number of posts is relevant. This would essentially be the difference between an active lurk (many posts, little content) versus a non-active lurk (few posts, but there is content within those posts).

With all due respect, you are an idiot to suggest that i am in any way shape or form an active lurker... if that's what you are doing.

I have posted more than you because i have been under heavy attack from many people in this game, and you haven't... that's common sense. The number of posts IS irrelevant, because both of us are not operating under the same conditions.

Reasoning such as this is why i am not wasting my time getting into an argument with you... i've already seen what that would evolve into.

HOW DO YOU NOT THINK IT'S RELEVANT THAT HE FUCKING GAVE UP AGAINST ME? And speaking of which, do you have any opinion about that post, or are you just going to dismiss it as irrelevant because I'm the one that brought it up?

what you don't realize was that that post was highlighting the fact that you were talking about an unrelated topic with that comment, when taken in context of the discussion we were having.

i already previously explained it to you once... and then you turned around and did it again.

i used up all of my 'try to get this knucklehead to understand what is actually going on' time on nacho, so i dont have any more to spare for you.

sorry.

[podium123456]

just in case there is any confusion, when i said 'you should stop. just trust me' i was implying that what you were writing was making you look foolish, and that you should stop... as in: trust me, you should stop.

not 'just trust me, i'm not scum'.

[podium123456]

Im (trying) to go over the thread right now. (are we really on page 14? lol)

And i just noticed something ironic (if thats the right term).

GW was attacking me for taking something petty in RVS and trying to turn it into a big scumdeal... which is a valid thing to investigate....

but what actually happened, was that HE took something petty (yes, imo... but still) and tried to make a big scumdeal out of it.

hah.

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but that's besides all the other stuff that he's done.

in regards to VV moving on implosion... i still feel that GW has acted the scummiest. implosion has been saying a lot of wacky stuff, and making points that are kinda ridiculous (mostly trying to paint me as scum). but for right now, i dont think he is acting... i get the feeling that he's the type of guy that engages in logic of that quality.

also, seacore remains looking bad to me. i would put seacore in front of implosion, actually.

nachomama has, by far, the worst input of the thread so far... substance wise. do something, you clown.

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and dont we have like 3 players that havent even shown up? xenophone, butterfly, and zinive?

[podium123456]

ok i made it through. let me see if i can compile my notepad file into something concise and understandable....

@ Vibebox

- In post 65 you said zinive was bad... you later clarified (in 118) that it was due to 'gut' and because there were low numbers of posts. The only thing zinive had posted, was a post making a valid point. there were many others who hadn't given

any

substance (or even any posts). tell me why you had a bad gut feeling about zinive making a valid comment, when most others hadn't done that much.

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VV/MOI vs. Vibebox

- Ok, these two ganged up on vibebox pretty hard at the beginning. i think the severity of their suspicioun didn't match the severity of what he was accused of. yeah, there was some misunderstanding about a few things, and vibebox was being a little short... but i thought he answered all of their inquiries extremely well once he approached it seriously.

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VV

- regarding VV, and after reading his vibebox interaction... i have to say that it's a darn good thing he made his 176. as i said, i thought his push on vibe was bad at times... HOWEVER, he did appear to concede that vibe was explaining things sufficiently, and back down in 150. it was just my opinion that vibe had done it sufficiently much earlier.

pre-176, i would call VV null leaning scum. post-176, his arguments have been a lot better. as i said... 176 is towny, if nothing else, for the correct/thorough analysis of all that slop. from my point of view, though, his opinions matched what my intent actually was (i understand thats impossible for anyone else to know... im just telling you my thoughts). so, i dont think i really have much choice but to call him town... and if he ended up scum, i would still feel i made the right decision, even in hindsight.

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Vibebox

- I have a question outstanding to him, but vibebox is a town read for me at this point. i find nothing really scummy with his input or reasoning/arguing. his activity has dropped off a little, but i see that he recently made a post saying he was going to catch up. interested to hear what he has to say.

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Fate

- His 137 was actually an extremely observant/valid post... especially considering that we were all in the middle of a flamefest at that time. maybe there actually

are

some quality scumhunting skills underneath all of the capslocks... more townpoints for him.

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[podium123456]

Seacore

- A reread of the thread enhances my scum read of him. Fate's points about his voteswitch/vibevote were valid, and rightfully suspicious. i'm not that impressed with seacores explanation that he had been 'wavering' on his read for days, but kept it to himself.

also, when fate asked sea about why he was still unhappy with vibes play, sea said:

I have read all of his posts, and I still find him to be far less forthcoming and open than I like my town to be.

Which is a complete pile of horsecrap. I understand there is some subjectvity involved, but if you go back and look at vibes discussions with moi and vv, i dont really see how they could be any more forthcoming or open. hell, even VV backed down and said his explanations made up for his earlier vagueness.

i find it extremely scummy for seacore to make this observation. if he had really been observing and watching vibe for days with a 'wavering' mindset, i dont think he would have described that type of play as 'not forthcoming or open'.

Of course, the points i previously raised still remain.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

MagnaofIllusion

- This was the biggest surprise i got from my reread... from only glancing at his non-me stuff, i thought he was giving good content. a closer inspection, and i feel completely different.

First of all, he starts his crusade on vibe with:

@implosion: If I just told you, what would your job be in all this?

Hey look, either a veiled attempt at in-thread communication to a partner of some sort or a reaction test. Either way it’s worth further investigation.

VOTE: Vibebox

Personally, the whole 'i caught you coaching thing' is way overused (and overrated) as a scumhunting thing. I've just never seen it, or talked to anyone else that has ever seen it, ACTUALLY happen (in a blatant form like that). But i've seen a ton of people try to use it against someone. i think it's scummy, and is an example of someone taking something small/petty in RVS to try and blow it up. (hey gw, where were u on this bud? i mean... he actually made a case and a vote and everything...)

Magna: If you are so worried about coaching attempts during day, how come you NEVER said anything about this:

@Fate:

Careful of VI traps.

If i was someone that thought stuff like this was indicative of scum coaching their partner during day (and im not), this one is just as bad... if not worse... than the one you criticized.

------------------------------------------

MOI remains on the vibe trail, and his 177 has some pretty shoddy arguments in it regarding vibe. i can go into detail if wanted, but im leaving it now out for brevity.

**

And dont forget that VV (whose arguments were almost the same as MOI's) had backed down from his case... based on the

same

discussions that MOI is continuing to force the case with. Interesting, no?

**

------------------------------------------

His 238 also includes some pretty lousy arguments. (i have a post open to him discussing some of this)

So, with all that... definately a

FOS: MOI

from me at this point.

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Implosion = VI for now

Nacho = Borderline active lurker, full fledged substance-lacking'er

GW = remains my top scumpick

zdenek = i think i just realized that he replaced zinive. dont recall seeing anything too out of the ordinary with his input so far.

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and now i'm caught up

like a bauss.

[podium123456]

I've seen some questions asked of me, but none of them seem very important.

Whether or not you think they are important is kind of irrelevant, you know. Please answer my (repeated) question as to what inconsistencies i had made.

Then podium started to react and it drew my attention. I waited and watched a little while because a)podium had plenty of pressure and was reacting to it, and b)I didn't want to take the pressure off of Vibe just yet. After that, I'm still happy with a podium lynch.

You're entire case against me is that i presented a 'you cant lynch me for that' attitude while arguing. When i asked for an example, you gave me quotes in which i was asking questions about my case. That's not indicative of a 'you cant lynch me for that' attitude.

I would like to see some better examples (and logic dictates that there must be tons... as my input in this game has been tremendous... so for you to be willing to lynch me based on having that attitude 'the whole time', it would have to encompass a huge bulk of my discourse).

As a side note... and i

think

a couple people have mentioned this... what exactly is scummy about occasionally stating why i dont think what i am being accused of is actually a legitimate/substantive scumtell? Isn't that a normal part of a defense?

Podium's recent accusation that if I don't like players who aren't forthcoming and open, then I was being dodgy myself isnt' quite apt. I don't like players who aren't open or forthcoming about their votes.

No, that wasn't what i said at all. What i said was that based on the overall input vibebox contributed concerning his case, to continue to call him 'not forthcoming or open' is stretching reality... even a subjective reality. For instance, vibe's ISO 10 is a pretty thorough discussion of the case on him, as well as his explanations. Even VV, who was pushing nearly the same case as you... (except VV was pushing it much harder and thorougly) agreed that he had made up for his earlier un-openness.

You're logic doesn't add up to me... even subjectively. I dont recall having a problem with your logic in the game we played together, when you were town... i actually left that game with the impression that you were a very solid player.

All of this adds into the picture as to why i am pretty confident that you are one of the scum here.

[podium123456]

Also seacore, i would like you to comment on my GW and MOI cases.

Votecount (as of this post):
implosion: 3 (Fate, Nacho, VasudeVa) L-4
GhostWriter: 1 (podium) L-6
podium: 3 (GhostWriter, implosion, Seacore) L-4
VibeBox: 2 (Magna, Zinive) L-5

Haven't found a replacement for Zinive yet >_<

@Fate. As of tomorrow, votecounts will be done in the order that the votes happened.

[podium123456]

@ Fate - Why did you remove your vote from seacore so quickly after you made it? He seemed to be near the top of your recent scummy list, and you said you used some of my reasons as well as your own stated reasons PLUS some more that were 'secret' as a reason that you voted him at that time. i have since expanded the case on seacore a little more thoroughly (in 337)... what are your thoughts on what i added to his case, and why is implosion scummier than him?

I would also like you to comment on my MOI and GW cases. do you feel the points i made are valid?

[podium123456]

Podium, your inconsistencies were the ones that Fate repeatedly quoted. I don't see what was unclear about that. Do I have to quote them too to be able to refer to them?

... this is the whole point. there WERE no inconsistencies/contradiction... fate was using those terms to describe a different type of problem as i explained to him. i reiterated this, when i previously asked you to show me what you were talking about. that proves to me that you aren't actually reading/thinking about the content in the thread... even though you were more than eager to use it against me. very scummy.

At the time I voted for you, I was getting the vibe from you, and I think my quotes do highlight that, that you were annoyed at what was being used as the reasons for calling you scum, rather than being called scum.

Asking someone to clarify their case on me does not in any way shape or form equate to me criticizing the reason behind the question. You are trying to construct an attitude of mine that the evidence doesn't support. Did i criticize a scumtell once or twice? Yes. Does that mean that my 'whole attitude' was primarily to discredit the validity of a scumtell? Not even close.

Again... what is scummy about criticizing the validity of a scumtell?

Since then, your general flailing and poor scum hunting has further confirmed you as scum to me.

Wow. If you are town, then i had you pegged as a

totally

different level of mafia player. I can't see how anyone can look at the cases i have made on GW, MOI, and even YOU and describe them as 'poor'. Even if you disregard what i consider pretty substantive observations, I

literally

caught GW lying (or misrepresenting if you want to be really nice).

Sounds more to me like you are just repeating a buzz word that you saw someone else throw at me... again.

As for the second half of your vibebox comment. Even with Vibe's other posts, he still read to me with an attitude of "I'll tell you what I want to tell you, when I want to tell you it" and that annoys me.

Okay, then we disagree. Because i dont understand how that if a guy ends up dropping that routine, and thoroughly addresses and explains each point, why he is still considered anti-town. And especially when one of his loudest detractors backed down from the same initial opinion.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'll assume that you have no comment on the cases i have asked you to comment on. That fact will be more relevant after we see flips.

[podium123456]

i think you guys are going after low hanging fruit with implosion. a brief analysis of his play will turn up a good bit of bad logic/play... but it's

so

easy to spot that i feel like it's possible that he is just a bad townie right now.

i think the cases ive made against GW and seacore (and even MOI a little) show a deeper level of deception/scumminess going on. other people have criticized them as well, with the same type of deeper level stuff... yet the momentum switched to implosion all of a sudden.

[podium123456]

sigh... some people.

ok i guess you're going to be like that. whatever. i thought we could both move on and discuss the rest of the game normally. guess not.

just remember that YOU are the person that pissed on everything i said, tried to shout me out of the game, and used dirty tricks this entire game. it's not really the same thing for you to refuse to answer my questions because i finally had enough of your crap.

i had a reason to stop answering you... you're just doing it out of spite.

(and dont start with the 'but im being nice now' bit. other people asked you to cool it with the nutso style before i got fed up with it.)

[podium123456]

Spite sounds like a reason to me.

Also unless you have a really good reason for me to be scum there's no need to ask me questions. Not until LyLo if I'm still alive by then (Hint: I won't be). That's just standard Fate-play.

that's true... im not so much worried about if you are scum... i mainly asked you that to try and shift the discussion, and some of your focus, back to seacore or GW... in hopes it might bust up this implosion train.

Take notes from nacho, he's doing it right.

let's not be silly...

[podium123456]

nacho stfu

[podium123456]

You gloss right over the ‘reaction test’ portion of the statement.

So Podium, why jump to right to the coaching conclusion? Was it the easiest way you could prop up your Townread on Vibe?

9.98 times out of 10 when someone says 'i think that was an in-game communication' and then VOTES the person for it, they are implying it is coaching. I don't think many would disagree. So that's where 'coaching' came from. if you didn't necessarily think he's scum, and might be some type of town pr, then why attempt to blow his cover?

what did you mean by 'reaction test'? i assumed you meant he was trying to get a reaction from whoever he was talking to... what's scummy about that?

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1. For someone who has screamed “PROVE IT TO ME” about any number of statements made towards you so far that you are happy to just call an argument shoddy or lousy without substantiation is at best hypocritical and possibly scummy.
2. Care to prove how VV’s arguments were ‘almost the same’ as mine?
3. How should VV’s willingness to revise his opinion impact my read on Vibebox?
4. I note that use of ‘Interesting’ as a means to slyly suggest something is scummy without directly saying so, which is scummy.

1. Don't misrep me. i SPECIFICALLY said i would include more detail if someone wanted it, but that i was leaving it out for brevity... as i was making a game-wide analysis.

2.

You just called someone on shitposting when you are posting shit yourself. What MoI said, basically.

Because podium is a 'fail', what's your read on him? Do you think he's Town-fail or scum-fail?

Didn’t you just chastise Podium for shit-posting? Because my 6 year old daughter can build a post more clear and understandable than this.

Does being ‘a fail’ actually equate to being scum or is it just for rhetoric?

Sure, there might have been a non-shared point here and there, but this seemed to be the primary focus of each argument.

3. you cant understand that? i thought vibe's explanation was sufficient, so did VV. when you didn't, i found it interesting... because i dont know how much better he could have explained things. sure, it's a very subjective thing... that's why i said it was interesting.

4. hah. the ole 'interesting' bit (which was the semantics issue seacore went after, in the game that you mentioned earlier). are you trying to tell me, that in a post in which I expressed strong suspicion of you, that because i used the word interesting, you dont know my intent towards you? this wasn't anything you did, and it is a subjective and possibly nullish observation... that's why it's interesting. sometimes when someone says 'interesting', they are just using the word.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

but 176 really was a superb post. nobody knows my alignment but me...

How is this statement possibly true unless you are some third party? Because either as scum or Town the scum-team would know your alignment.

i didn't know that i had to provide all possible qualifiers every time i said something like this. a day-cop could know my role to... it was just a figure of speech.

I don't understand what you mean here.

It means that if you truly believed that VV was scummy you would have further developed that suspicion. By, perhaps, pointing out what you perceived as VV’s total lack of input.

Dont assume what i might have perceived, or that i believed VV was scummy. A scummy action does not always equate to a scummy player.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Can you show me in your ISO, before the VV post, where you explain your 2 scumreads?

You incorrectly attack Seacore for ‘pontial light distancing’ in the same post.

Implosion and seacore. Just because YOU think my attack was 'incorrect' (and hey, i'll hit you with the same sort of qualifier gotcha... how could you know it was incorrect, unless you know their roles? ) doesn't mean that i didn't express that i was suspicious of him being a scum partner.

[podium123456]

Just because other people have been satisfied with his explanation of his behaviour or have moved on does not mean I have to.

You keep acting like you have made a valid case about my attitude... you haven't. I've explained why, and instead of rebutting it... you just say 'oh ur wrong' and keep repeating it.

Just because he calmed down at some point does not mean that his early ranting and flailing wasn't a scum tell.

What exactly are you referring to as me 'ranting and flailing'? Because my initial reaction/explanation to fate AND gw was pretty calm and rational, imo. (ISO 4, 5)

Are you referring to the 3 posts i made to Fate, where i used capslock to respond against his capslock style? Hell, one of those was telling him to stop using caps...

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edit: holy crap... my pc crashed just as i started to submit this, and i had to restart. when i did, firefox opened back up with all my tabs including all this text i had written... NICE

Votecount (as of this post):
implosion: 3 (Fate, Nacho, VasudeVa) L-4
GhostWriter: 1 (podium) L-6
podium: 3 (GhostWriter, implosion, Seacore) L-4
Seacore: 1 (Zdenek) L-5
VibeBox: 1 (Magna) L-6

[podium123456]

i have no idea why no one feels compelled to talk about my GW case (specifically 254 and 259). Especially when he stopped talking about it, because he wanted to hear other people comment.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Seacore

[podium123456]

^^ LOL

GW comes at me hard with his case this entire game, never concedes any points or thinks that i have refuted any of his claims, and with his last discussion post that we were having (before he stopped) he says:

Guys, why isn't this scum lynched yet?

yet now he tries to quietly slink off of my wagon without saying anything... probably hoping no one would notice.

well, i did.

[podium123456]

Hoping no one notices? How could they not notice? Do you think I assume no one reads the game? And that YOU, of all people, would not notice it?

...you know what i mean.

Podium, do you know why I asked people for their opinion?

Yes. Because i showed that your case was ridiculously flimsy at its core, as well as catching you in several lies/misreps. You couldn't respond.

..oh but i know you have your excuse of 'oh i just want to hear other peoples opinions'. there is no 'opinion' about the fact that i caught you lying (or to be nice, severely misrepresenting).


@ Fate : wtf it matters is that he is still a top scumpick for me, and that behavior is relevant to my opinion of him. learn2play.

[podium123456]

Vibebox's analysis was ok... but i am less than impressed with his conclusions.

Why do you still feel that i am scummy.

Why did you choose to put implosion (a ??? read) at L-2, when you could have joined the seacore wagon (a scum read)?

[podium123456]

Since Podium asked, here is what I think of Podium's case Ghostwriter, referring to posts 254 and 259: Basically, I think Podium does a good job of arguing against GW's case on him, but doesn't give a good argument the GW is scum. I agree that GW's case on Podium was weak, but early in the game, pushing a weak case isn't necessarily scummy. Though, continuing to push it can be.

Thanks for commenting.

I'll say that:

A: GW pushed hard and was prepared to lynch me based on that case... he only backed off after the wagon evaporated.

B: I disagree with you saying the lies i caught him making aren't a good argument that he is scum.

[podium123456]

Hey, mkayy.... if we could all get together and vote seacore or GW that would be great... kayy?

ok, great then...

so then ill be waiting for your votes, kay?

ok then, greaaat

[podium123456]

Vibebox's analysis was ok... but i am less than impressed with his conclusions.

Results quality should generally follow analysis quality so I’m not sure I’m not seeing anything but a self-serving fluff here.

Perhaps you missed where vibebox chose to vote for a ??? read over a scum read. That was the conclusion that i was referring to.

@Podium

– You ask Vibe to clarify his read on you. He ignores that request with his little song and dance at 458. Your reaction is to call of GW or Seacore votes? Umm, what? Not an ounce of pressure towards Vibe?

I forgot i asked him that. Thanks.

Vibe, why am i still scummy.

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Implosion is currently at L-2... so don't claim unless there are 2 people willing to hammer.

Besides... why lynch the bumbling VI, when you can lynch real liar GW or sneaky scum seacore?

[podium123456]

Dont claim unless there are people willing to hammer. Unnecessary claims are christmas presents to scum.

It's very easy to find out if there are people willing to hammer.

Are there 2 people willing to hammer? If there aren't, then we need to go a different direction.

[podium123456]

wait a minute....

Implosion, just do it. Might as well get this out of the way now. At least I'll still be awake for what's to come from it.

Yet earlier, when asked why he wasn't voting implosion, he said:

Because he's not scum.

...so he thinks one of his non-scum reads should go ahead and claim.

But hey... let's continue to ignore GW's scummy behavior and trainroll the VI.

[podium123456]

HOLY GOD.

THIS TOWN FAILS SO BAD.

IMPLOSION INCLUDED.

[podium123456]

^^ WTF does that mean?

[podium123456]

It means what I wrote. What part of it do you need me to clarify?

What do you think, smartass?

What do you mean about you asked the mod about his alignment.

[podium123456]

Good boy.
Now see, Implosion... Had you not claimed immediately, we wouldn't have ANY FUCKING TIME WHATSOEVER to push a lynch, and then we would've sloppily ended up on someone.

Fate, where now?

Unvote

The point was that if there weren't going to be enough people to lynch him... HE WOULDNT HAVE HAD TO CLAIM AT ALL.

Mafia 101

herp derp

[podium123456]

I didn't understand what implosion meant when he said 'mason with ghost' i didnt realize he was talking about ghostwriter... i thought it was some kind of crazy game flavor. i understand now.


except i really dont understand why GW would push him for a claim... knowing that he is town (if you're telling the truth) and knowing that there may not be enough support for his lynch. why the hell wouldn't you try to move the lynch somewhere else? unless i'm missing something, that seems really stupid to do what you did. it's possible im missing something, i guess.

[podium123456]

And then we would've pushed his lynch until there was enough people and we would've had less time to manuver.
AKA he still woulda been outed and we would have had no time for Fate to find an acceptable alternative

HERP DERP

You're assuming that support exists for his lynch. If there weren't enough support for the lynch, it wouldn't have happened... there's still like 10 days left till deadline. You guys are living in a different world than me, if you consider 10 days ZOMG-ITS-DEADLINE-HURRY-time!!!

But, based on what i've seen so far with this town's scumhunting abilities, the support probably would have come.

Good job all you pro scum hunters on his wagon.

[podium123456]

podium, i recommend you stop while you're behind.
it's the only way, really.

You haven't said one intelligent thing all game.

[podium123456]

You're assuming that support exists for his lynch. If there weren't enough support for the lynch, it wouldn't have happened...

You're assuming Fate has the same meager lynch-pushing skills you have. But Fate knows how to get a lynch. And if he wanted the lynch, then he would've gotten the lynch.

like he got mine, right?

my opinion of your intelligence continues to plummet.

[podium123456]

lol... fate fanboys.

guess you guys missed the part where he started begging me to answer him, and then had to abandon his crusade because the people with brains wouldn't sheep him. i'm sure his capslock style gets some people to cave... but im not one of those people.

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anyway... seacore, 10 days out isn't anywhere close to a deadline... but like i said, it really didn't matter, since the person that knew he was confirmed town (if they are telling truth) decided to push for his claim.

...

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votes should be on seacore, but something tells me what 'should' and 'shouldn't' happen isn't going to play a big part in this game.

[podium123456]

I know, I was just seeing how fast you would answer.

You pass the test again.

thats because you fail at thinking.

MOI and Zdenek were willing to hammer when he said he thought we should wait. As a matter of fact... he specifically said he didn't accept zdenek's 'will hammer at claim' comment.

[podium123456]

Fanboys =/= Competent player who recognize skill sets in others and use them to their advantage to forward their win con.

Capslock ranting & raving =/= skill

I abandoned my crusade BEFORE I started asking you to answer my final question, if I was still crusading at that point in time there would have been MUCH more waves and MUCH more splash.

Your 'create history' tricks don't work on people like me. The post before i said i was done with your BS (after you had already been asking me the question), you still believed i was scum. Text dont lie.

I resigned that you would be town, stopped pushing your lynch, and just wanted ONE FUCKING ANSWER for my own reads' sake.

Really? Because what you actually said was that you found one irrefutable point that i couldn't answer, and so that meant i was scum. Is that fanboy slang for 'town'?

You're a joke. But you got some good cheerleaders behind you.

There are still plenty who are none too happy with your play and I could capitalize on that if I wanted to. LIKE I SAID don't start with me.

Don't 'start' with you? LOL, I

finished

with you.

[podium123456]

@ Fate: what does any of that gibberish have to do with the fact that seacore said the early claim was good because we had MOI and Zdenek willing to hammer... even though previously he said he didn't accept Zdenek's 'i'll hammer at claim' promise and that we should wait?

think.

[podium123456]

See you made a really good catch/point... but then you let him sweet talk you out of it... even though what he said didn't make sense.

oh.. but.. he answered fast! so that means he isnt scum!

[podium123456]

Courtesy is half the battle in other words.

translation: Please don't be a douche to me, after i was a douche to you. It hurts my widdle feelings.

[podium123456]

oh no, be a douche to me all you want, fucktard.
i meant to everyone else.

Translation: Please dont be a douche to fate, even though he was a douche to you. I wuv him and it hurts my widdle feelings.

[podium123456]

IM A DONKY.

SEE MAH EARS?

*craps on the floor*

[podium123456]

where are those replacements?

finally something i can agree with you about.

[podium123456]

third times a charm, eh?

[podium123456]

Fate made a very good catch... but no one seems to be interested in talking about it (even fate).

I got access at my inlaws, I'm happy with how the claim went.
L-2 with MoI willing to hammer and Zdenek willing to deadline hammer, means doing this early was precisely the way to go.

This is actually a pretty big/scummy contradiction. He forgot that he made the fake 'im not comfortable with zdeneks promise to hammer... we should wait' ez towny points claim. If that was really his true feelings, then why did he say EXACTLY the opposite after the early claim happened?

[podium123456]

Vibe is not our lynch.

Not yet, anyways. Maybe soon.

that's two intelligent things you've said on this page.

who are you, and what did you do with nacho?

[podium123456]

^^ wow. spaz is back.

[podium123456]

YOU CAN'T CALL ME A SHIT PLAYER AND THEN USE MY "CATCHES" TO FURTHER YOUR STUPID FUCKING CASE.

1. IT WASN'T A "CATCH" IT WAS A GODDAMN TEST.
2. IT WAS OBVIOUS HOW HIS THOUGHT PROCESS CHANGED FROM THE POSTS INBETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS, AND HE HIMSELF ANSWERED THAT THOSE WERE WHAT CHANGED HIS MIND.
3. YOU WILL BE LYNCHED TODAY BEFORE SEACORE. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE SEACORE EXPLAINED HIS "CONTRADICTION" IN

TWO FUCKIN MINUTES

AND YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN YOURS FROM 15 PAGES AGO. GUESS WHO WE'RE KEEPING AROUND LONGER? YEAH.

Out of respect for the other players, i'm going to refrain from engaging in a flame-fest... you should do the same.

If you think about what he said, you will see that his answer is actually illogical. If you don't think so, then lets discuss it... not shout and curse at each other. I could be wrong... if so, show me how i am... dont just shout and say i am.

Seacore said he wasn't comfortable with zdenek's 'promise to claim', and that we should wait. Later he says the early claim was ok because moi and zdenek were prepared to hammer. that's a contradiction.

the part about GW has no bearing on the contradiction, and furthermore, he didn't say anything about GW when he gave a reason as to why he approved of the early claim.

[podium123456]

Its not a contradiction because MoI and GhostW further advocated the claim, meaning his condition of "someone voting and someone holding the hammer" HAD BEEN SATISFIED.

I thought MOI had already made his post before seacore said he wasn't comfortable... looking back there is no contradiction.

I dont really see anything to comment on about the new guy. I still feel Seacore is the scummiest player so far.

[podium123456]

Is there an echo in here?

[podium123456]

Yes.

Also, i have found nothing worth commenting on from albert so far.

What exactly has you all riled up about him? He said he was considering hammering the person you are voting for. If you don't want someone to hammer vibe (and i dont think we should), then you should unvote.

[podium123456]

Hey look – What’s missing from this post – reasons why your OPINION of what ‘should’ happen is something anyone should listen to. As in reason Seacore is scum.

I have clearly stated my case several times.

Perhaps you missed where vibebox chose to vote for a ??? read over a scum read. That was the conclusion that i was referring to.

See … this kind of post makes my skin crawl. You ignore the fact that I attacked Vibe for that VERY THING at the top of said post you quoted from. Which means you are skimming looking for your name to pop up. That’s not behavior I expect from Town.

That was sarcasm, as your criticism didn't really make sense. You said that if i found his analysis to be satisfactory, then i should have also found his conclusion satisfactory (paraphrasing). That isn't true.

But hey... let's continue to ignore GW's scummy behavior and trainroll the VI.

Are you trying to say that GW’s posts towards implosion don’t show a clear Mason attitude?

Pretty sure i said that before the claims came out.

Implosion’s play was second perhaps to only Vibebox in scumminess.

In your opinion... i found seacore and GW to be much scummier. I thought implosion was probably a VI... and i was right.

Any why again is Seacore scum yet your vote is sitting on Vibe? Are you not willing to really push your bus on Vibe?

My vote is on seacore.

Uh oh! Looks like somebody is skimming! /sarcasm

[podium123456]

the fark? standby.

[podium123456]

MOD: I am voting for seacore, not vibe.

[podium123456]

pages 1-3 confirms for me that fate was right because the donkey doesn't do much to help his case, also vibe kept on looking scummier and scummier to me

the reason i couldn't think til now was because fate loves his caps lock.. i saw that instead of his content.

How do you feel i didn't do much for my case? Posts 20 and 27 address the case about as good as i could do it. There wasn't much more to say.

I realize that he has been on the right track and basically our supremo scumhunter now.

Except that he wasn't, and nearly everyone else has said that his case on me wasn't very substantial.

[podium123456]

First of all, props to the new guys for getting caught up in this big game.

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GW:

It's odd that you didn't partake in RVS, yes. but once past that you lay down some solid scumhunting, and was more clear in explaining fate BW on podium. I'll call you fate translator number 1.

FYI: GW's case on me was different than fate's. In other words, he didn't really explain fate's case.

Nacho:

he didn't really start digging til ISO 10 brings up some good points about podium..

FYI: What he said in ISO 10 was completely unrelated to anything we were discussing. What happened was he mixed up two separate arguments. I tried to get him to understand this, but he wouldn't listen and/or couldn't understand what i was talking about.


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podium:

Posts alot but didn't have much content early, really was bad toward fate, made several bad arguments mainly ignored or dismissed fate's case altogether. then starts making sense (while still ignoring fate) suspects GW, seacore, makes more sense then less sense. Podium you fail to address your many cases and either A) ignore them, B) TWIST them, or C) DISMISS THEM AS CASES.. you're going down today or d2 weather you like it or not... either way, BE BETTER AT CASE DEFENDING!

KC, i will give you benefit of the doubt with a lot of this summary stuff, because you are having to process all of it at once in a short time. But you're going to have to give me some examples of what you mean, instead of making these generalized statements. Generalized statements sound scummy.

What do you mean by 'you didn't address your many cases'? I'm pretty sure i addressed all of them.

Where did i ignore and/or twist any cases?

I may have 'dismissed' a case on me after discussing it (if you are talking about me saying something like 'i dont think that's a substantive case')... but what's scummy about that?

What do you mean by 'you need to be better at defending cases'? The GW/Fate cases were based around whether or not i really knew Fate was joking... there's not much more i can really say besides that i didn't. However, i did engage in much more discourse about those cases. Seacore made a case about my reactions to the other cases, and i feel i defended it very well.

...and BTW, i did fight off most of the cases on me successfully... if that's not defending 'well', then i dont know what is.

[podium123456]

More examples of twisting/dismissing/ignoring

1. ISO 50
2. ISO 51
3. ISO 54
4. ISO 60
5. ISO 70
6. ISO 83
7. ISO 87 < Thats just wrong.

bout does it really

^^ lol albert. u serious brah?

you quoted:

1. Me proving that the other party was using dirty tricks to debate... that they admitted to. No ignore/twist/dismiss.

2. Me (correctly) trying to inform someone that they had mixed up 2 separate arguments. No ignore/twist/dismiss.

4. An extremely thorough defense to GW regarding his case on me. No ignore/twist/dismiss.

5. Another thorough defense to GW in which i PROVED he was lying/severely misrepresenting. No ignore/twist/dismiss.

3. 6. 7. Posts regarding me ending debating with fate... following an extremely thorough exchange, and due to his capslock style (that even you have criticized) and dirty tricks.

If you want to say that i should have answered fates last question, then you are welcome to that opinion. on the other hand, i think several others have supported my decision. but me not answering ONE question doesn't magically erase the volumes of text i wrote discussing everything else.

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Obviously i think your accusation/description of my gameplay is misrepresented/exaggerated... especially considering the examples you provided. For instance i dont see where i twisted anything, or ignored anything (except that one question).

Again, i do give you some benefit of the doubt, as some of the stuff was hard to follow even for people that have been reading along. However, i do ask you to reconsider your accusations after having the specific circumstances explained.

[podium123456]

O yeah i better address this before i get called on it...

What do you mean by 'you need to be better at defending cases'? The GW/Fate cases were based around whether or not i really knew Fate was joking... there's not much more i can really say besides that i didn't. However, i did engage in much more discourse about those cases. Seacore made a case about my reactions to the other cases, and i feel i defended it very well.

Here's why: they don't. they simply get annoyed with you, or simply noticed VB being dumb

FOr GW: ISO 23
This isn't fate disregarding his case it's him agreeing you make a point
He comes back to you here

any others?

I dont understand what any of that has to do with me asking you what you meant by 'you need to be better at defending cases'.

Can you answer that, and base it on something substantive? Because right now it sounds like a very general/buzzy thing to say.

[podium123456]

I DO want you to answer fate's question. Sooner or later you're going to. I'm keeping you at

SCUM

AND THAT'S FINAL.

Ok, you are calling me scum because i wont answer one question (which isn't being answered based on a principle)... even though i have provided a mountain of other discussion in which a read could be determined over.

Fine. Whatever floats your boat, man.

[podium123456]

That was sarcasm, as your criticism didn't really make sense. You said that if i found his analysis to be satisfactory, then i should have also found his conclusion satisfactory (paraphrasing). That isn't true.

Pro-tip – dismissing questions with sarcasm instead of answering them isn’t Pro-Town.

I’m not going to get into a debate with your over whether a solid analysis should lead to solid conclusions. That’s a logic debate that has nothing to do with scum-hunting. Just know for the record I think you are wrong.

I didnt dismiss the question... i answered it, with a

very

small touch of sarcasm.

'Just for the record', i think you are wrong. I dont know why i can't say that i am not impressed with someone's conclusion if their conclusion doesn't make sense... REGARDLESS of how good their analysis was. His conclusion didn't make sense... it doesn't magically make sense just because his analysis was solid. Pretty sure you are wrong to criticize me for this.

I asked you why I shouldn’t see your original statement as self-serving because the first thing you didn’t like about his conclusions wasn’t his vote for a ??? read but that he found you to be scummy.

Him calling me scummy wasn't as much of a problem as i had with his implosion vote... but i can see how it looks like that based on the way i wrote the post. I'd say that was responsible for mayyybe 10% of my 'less than impressed' opinion.

You didn't bring this up previously, so i wasn't aware you were including that in your 'self serving' accusation. I understand better why you had/have that opinion, now.

We’ve already discussed you seem willing to let direct questions to him go unanswered when he did make a rare post.

Is once enough to say that i am 'willing to let questions go unanswered'? Seems a little sensationalist. Have i done it more than once? I cant recall that i have.

Pretty sure i said that before the claims came out.

And once again you don’t answer the question put to you – are you trying to say that the was Ghost approached the Implosion situation did not appear to be that of a Mason buddy?

You asked me about my opinion of Imp/GW mason connection based on what i said in that quote, but that quote obviously wasn't pertaining to that connection. I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant to the quote context -- not because i was deflecting.

Now... i guess you want to ask my opinion of the Imp/GW mason connection. I haven't examined their posts in that regard, but i currently don't really doubt their story. While i dont think what GW did was smart/correct, the pieces fit. If that's what you are asking.

In your opinion... i found seacore and GW to be much scummier. I thought implosion was probably a VI... and i was right.

Yes it is my opinion. That’s what this game is about.

I only said in your opinion, because you were factually criticizing my play based on your personal opinion.

Also – you are using the term VI wrong. Implosion may not be a stellar player but he’s far from a VI. That’s reserved for the worst of the worst. You look to be using the term as a means to undermine what we currently think is a Town confirmed player.

Fine, what do you want me to say? Bad town? Noob town? Does it matter? How does that undermine anything? It is what it is.

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Votecount (as of this post)
Deadline is December 7th at 12:34 PM PST
implosion: 1 (VasudeVa) L-6
Seacore: 2 (implosion, podium) L-5
VibeBox: 6 (Fate, GhostWriter, Magna, Nacho, RedCoyote, Seacore)

L-1

Not Voting: 3 (Kcdaspot, VibeBox, Zdenek) L-4

[podium123456]

I have clearly stated my case several times.

Provide a nice summary of why he’s scum that contains all the stuff you still actually stand by.

Seacore:

* i was initially susp. of him dropping implosions accusation so quickly. since then, i have pulled this back to a null observation.

* in this post he states that he is getting close to voting for me, but wants to think about it over the weekend. 10 minutes later (and with nothing additional from me) he votes for me.


Case summary 1


Case summary 2


* Twice when i was under heavy pressure, he mentioned that i had made inconsistencies. However, he can't say what those are now. <-- this seems like a scum skimming the thread, and not actually evaluating accusations.

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Rebuttal discussions about my case, in case anyone wants to read them:

One

Two

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I remain much more in favor of a seacore lynch over vibe, for the reasons given.

[podium123456]

They simply found MIRACULOUSLY someone scummier. I gotten all i can get out there and I can't get you to say a STRAIGHT FRICKIN ANSWER!

First of all, you aren't asking me for a straight answer... i'm asking you for one. Got it?

Secondly, i still dont feel you have justified your accusation. If they dropped my case, they would obviously move to someone else. Even if you take that out of the equation and say that they moved to someone more scummier... what does that have to do with how well i defended myself?

FYI - You don't have to respond back about this if you dont want to... im satisfied that i have sufficiently defended against your accusation for now.

Simply you defended against the initial attack very poorly, I'm not sure if I'm yet ready to forgive that. Fair?

Obviously I disagree about your assessment, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[podium123456]

You seem to already have your mind made up about me, as you reject nearly (if not all) EVERY explanation/answer i give you... even about trivial things. Tunnel vision much?

Is once enough to say that i am 'willing to let questions go unanswered'? Seems a little sensationalist. Have i done it more than once? I cant recall that i have.

You are trying to move the goal-posts here. It isn’t that you’ve done it on a repeated basis. Nice deflection attempt.

First of all, this is NOT moving the goalposts. Not even close. I am not disputing that i didnt follow up, i am taking issue with how you described it. Addressing a possible misrepresentation isn't moving the goal posts. Moving the goal posts would be me accusing you of something, and then shifting to a slightly different point if you successfully rebutted the first point.

If you really were interested in getting the information from Vibe you would have followed up on it. That’s behavior I believe is definitely more likely to come from scum.

Yeah. Either that, or you know, i just forgot. Mistakes happen.

You asked me about my opinion of Imp/GW mason connection based on what i said in that quote, but that quote obviously wasn't pertaining to that connection. I didn't answer it because it was irrelevant to the quote context -- not because i was deflecting.

This is horrible justification for not answering a direct question to you. Your post indicated (you failing to actually look at the preview aside) that he had suspicion of GW. Thus I asked you if you didn’t think Ghostwriter’s play indicated he was a Mason with Implosion. That you deemed it not worth answering because the quote that triggered the question was tangentially related is a poor justification.

It isn't a 'horrible justification'... the question you asked me was COMPLETELY unrelated to what i meant with the quote. The only reason you asked me the question was because of the quote. Therefore if i explain that the quote didnt mean what you thought it did, it's natural to assume that the question would be moot. Dont act like this is a black and white situation where you point blank asked me a question and i didnt answer you... there are variables here.

And i attempted to give you an answer even though i wasnt sure if it was what you were looking for, and i STILL dont really know what you want or are even talking about. That quote was referring to MY suspicion of GW. It had nothing to do with a GW/Imp connection. What exactly is the problem here?

I only said in your opinion, because you were factually criticizing my play based on your personal opinion.

But the only 100% independent facts in a Mafia game are the publicly provided information from the Mod (and in a slightly Bastard game as Mod advertised this). All the rest is opinion of the players provided at its base.

What does this have to do with anything? That doesn't change the fact that you stated your opinion of the top scummiest players as a fact, and criticized me as being suspicious because i didn't follow your order.

Fine, what do you want me to say? Bad town? Noob town? Does it matter? How does that undermine anything? It is what it is.

There isn’t a Pro-Town motivation to undermine Implosion if you think he is likely a Town Mason.

Stop trying to twist this around. Saying that someone played bad doesn't undermine anything... it is what it is. Are you telling me that you think he played well?

And what standard do you judge Implosion to be ‘bad Town’? Is it because he amassed a sizeable wagon for his play?

What the hell do you think it's because? Of course it's because of his play, that resulted in a L-1 condition. Do you think that he wasn't playing poorly?

* in this post he states that he is getting close to voting for me, but wants to think about it over the weekend. 10 minutes later

(and with nothing additional from me) he votes for me.

I’d like to point out that the bolded portion is an outright lie.

To say there was nothing additional from you is a lie.

There was nothing substantive from me regarding Seacore's case against me... i.e. nothing that should have changed his earlier opinion. Now i'll wait for you to tell me that there was.

i was initially susp. of him dropping implosions accusation so quickly. since then, i have pulled this back to a null observation.

You pulled back because others (Fate, IIRC) pointed out that your assertion was wrong and Seacore didn’t drop it quickly.

I pulled back because of MY opinion... not fate's. Even if that was the case, what does that have to do with my statement? I still consider it a null tell, and worth noting.

I note you didn’t directly link this point like you did all the others.

I also didn't link to Seacore asking me for inconsistencies. 'The bolded is a lie.'

[podium123456]

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say... one reason I don't buy it...

No I don't expect you to NOT answer your critics but when you make it well "I'm the final authority, I'm always right..." it's too confusing when we have two of those here...

More generalizations, tbh.

[podium123456]

Not everything I say about you is going to be a attack. THAT was a request.

I read the bolded:

One thing that bugs me about you podium... You come off as smug more often than not. You always have to have the last say...

one reason I don't buy it

...

as an attack (justification that this observation meant i was scum).

Besides... most everything you have said to me so far HAS been an attack.

[podium123456]

@ zdenek

It was just a welcome/thx/encouragement message...

[podium123456]

Lol albert.

aint no worries man. do yo thang.

i dont have any personal beef with you right now, if you felt that way for some reason. but that's not to say that i don't disagree with some of your statements.

i can be an arrogant SOB at times, but i always try to match whatever respect/attitude i am given. in other words, i'm nice/civil until someone is a jerk to me, and then i give them the same attitude back.

[podium123456]

lol this sucks... finally get two active replacements for our game-long MIA slots, and everybody else disappears.

[podium123456]

GD i cant say crap around here.

[podium123456]

without somebody bitchin at me.

[podium123456]

[podium123456]

MY WORD! PODIUM TRIPLE POSTED!!! DAYKILL HEEEEEEEM!!! (lol)

Translation: C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!!

[podium123456]

^^ u can be my bitch if u want. vote seacore for next weekend off.

[podium123456]

so nacho, now that you are 'loose'... what do you want to lay on us?

[podium123456]

wow this game really hit the wall... lol.

4 1/2 days to lynchzors. at this rate, looks like its gonna be MIA VB. bah.

ill be glad to get past d1, tho... thats for sure.

*munches hay*

[podium123456]

^^ You're alright albert... just hold tight right now.

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*evidence of a working brain*

Holy hell... suddenly a wild LOGIC appears. Maybe you are more than just a hot piece of ass after all.


HOWEVER... how long have you had this theory, and why didnt you speak up earlier? this is kind of anti-town depending on things. you've had your vote on an L-1 VB for a while now... do you think he is scum?

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I previously threw up a flag about MOI, and he has been on the wrong side of my gut for a while now. With his recent tunneling on me, i didn't want to press that issue too much because i didnt think i would get any support behind it,

and

i didnt want to get into another mega post off with MOI after this already lengthy D1.

I would definitely get behind a MOI lynch if the support was here... but we are short on time... dont know if there is time/support. other people would have to chime in.


If anyone wants it, here is my previous FOS case on MOI. His play since then hasn't improved my opinion of him.

[podium123456]

I think a lot have there questions about Magna, problem being 1) do you honestly think that enough people would agree to lynching him, let alone coming into the thread and reading anything else for this D1? 2) that case you link us to is all the way back on page 14.. do you have anything else specific from then til now pointing to him as scum?

1 - Probably not... which is why i expressed doubt that he would be lynched today.

2 - I sure do: *points at gut*




Preview edit: uh oh... fate took off his skirt and rejoined us.

we gonna steamroll MOI just like that?

HOLLAH!

Unvote
VOTE: Magna

[podium123456]

Shut the hell up podium. I just happen to be doing something a lot more important than mafia this week, its not about sulking or anything

Liar, nothing is more important than mafia.

[podium123456]

Also:

2) that case you link us to is all the way back on page 14.. do you have anything else specific from then til now pointing to him as scum?

Well, there's this, of course.

And if you want some more reading, here are a series of the latest rebuttals back and forth between MOI and myself... where you will see him (IMO) pull some scummy tactics like twisting stuff around, tunnel vision on me, and make some generally crappy arguments.

Onesy.

Twosy.

Threesy.

[podium123456]

These read WIFOMish to me...

Ummm no... wifom would be if i (or anyone) said something like: 'if i was scum i wouldnt have written in all caps, because it would have attracted too much attention'.

what i was doing there was correcting MOI's attempt to twist a misunderstanding (at best) into something scummy.

[podium123456]

EBWOP:

I went to check your ISO to see if your first post gave your experience with mafia... i cant believe you already have 3 pages of ISO... LOL. (that's not bad, just surprising to me)

Out of curiosity, what is your experience with playing mafia?

[podium123456]

LOL, i played probably 500 games there... its where i learned to play mafia. i used to use the name Donkey123456 (with this avatar) but mostly i was Boxybrown (of ATHF fame). and of course i had a bunch of novelty accounts like tonydanza, FUUUUUUUU guy, and stuff.

yeah forum mafia is a TOTALLY different animal. three weeks for a day versus 5 minutes brings a completely different dynamic to the game.... lol.

[podium123456]

dayumm... albert just body slammed magna! what you gonna do now, magna?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Votecount (as of this post)
Deadline is December 7th at 12:34 PM PST
Magnaface: 4 (Fate, Nacho, podium, kcdaspot) L-3
Seacore: 1 (implosion) L-6
VibeBox: 4 (GhostWriter, Magna, RedCoyote, Seacore) L-3
Not Voting: 3 (VasudeVa, VibeBox, Zdenek) L-4

[podium123456]

Hmmm... Would you really have switched had VibeBox came on to claim Frylock or something?

Who are you talking to?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Z: We only have 4 days until deadline... i really dont think you can get a VV wagon up from 0 by then. You expressed susp. of MOI... why not vote him?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

@ mod: Can we get a vote count pls.

[podium123456]

^^ yes, time is running out. why dont you join the MOI wagon so we can get a claim before deadline? or do u not suspect him at all? (cant remember what you have said about him)

[podium123456]

No, I don't think he's the best one here townwise, but I also don't like how this wagon sprung up out of the blue. I feel like Fate and/or Nacho didn't want VibeBox to bite the bullet for some reason. Yeah, we probably weren't going to get a claim. That's tough. That's the way it happens sometimes. I'd rather lynch someone "blindly" then get four claims from people and sit here undecided until the deadline with our thumb's up our asses.

Well, here's your chance to help us get a lynch. do you think MOI is scummier than vibe? I do. You weren't exactly all gung ho for the vibebox lynch either, so i dont necessarily understand why you wont get behind this wagon.

i'm a little suspicious of your attitude here. especially with this 'i feel like fate and/or nacho didn't want vibebox to bite the bullet' theory... they were both on him at L-1 for days. how is your statement justified, when considering that fact?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Preview edit: Albert... *facepalm*

[podium123456]

Albert, if you think MOI is scummy, you should stay on his wagon to see if we can get the votes. there's a good possibility we can. if we can't, then we can more than likely easily default back to VB, even if we wait until monday.

[podium123456]

^^ it's at the top of the page. Z's vote puts MOI at 5 L-2.

[podium123456]

why you no joiney wagon?

[podium123456]

VV, SEACORE, VB, IMPLOSION, RC:

TALK AND VOTE.

cant believe this awesome themed game is suffering from replacements, low activity.


(must be all the dicks... i heard there was gonna be one in every butt )

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Votecount (as of this post)
Deadline is December 7th at 12:34 PM PST
Magnaface: 5 (Fate, Nacho, podium, kcdaspot, Zdenek) L-2
Seacore: 1 (implosion) L-6
VibeBox: 4 (GhostWriter, Magna, RedCoyote, Seacore) L-3
Not Voting: 2 (VasudeVa, VibeBox) L-5

[podium123456]

I just realized podium... you never completly answered my ISO 31

I didn't even notice the bolded questions in that post. Ok, i'll respond... but i'm not sure why you feel the need to unvote MOI over that...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

FYI: GW's case on me was different than fate's. In other words, he didn't really explain fate's case.

NOPE. He does Very clearly in his ISO 2 and coutinues to affirm fate's case.

Fate's case was that i was scum and asking for the actual breadcrumb... GW doesn't explain that there.

FYI: What he said in ISO 10 was completely unrelated to anything we were discussing. What happened was he mixed up two separate arguments. I tried to get him to understand this, but he wouldn't listen and/or couldn't understand what i was talking about.

STRIKE 2He backs up GW. VERY CLEARLY.

I'm getting very very tired of having to explain the problem here to people. I've done so at least 5 or 6 times.

I told GW that my rebuttal to him diminished his case. Nacho jumps in and says what rebuttal, all i see you say is this: and posts me talking about Fate's case.

How many more times must i say the same thing over and over before someone decides to actually listen to me, read the context, and then realize what's going on? Or should we talk about it 10 or 15 more times?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What do you mean by 'you didn't address your many cases'? I'm pretty sure i addressed all of them.

HE'D BE BATTING A THOUSAND IF THE OBJECT OF THE GAME WASN'T HITTING THE BALL It begins here.

First of all, there was nothing to address there (fate voted me with no explanation)... but i tried to assume what it might be, and addressed it. How many points do i get for addressing a case before the person that made it actually makes it?

Don't just pull stuff out of context... there's enough to slog through in this thread as it is. Read and understand the context before you throw out accusations that i have to respond to.

Where did i ignore and/or twist any cases?

IGNORAN

Sigh. Yes, i yawned when vibebox voted me with no reason. How can i 'ignore' his case if it doesn't exist?

TWISTAN [/b]

I don't see anything twisted there. What did i twist?

I may have 'dismissed' a case on me after discussing it (if you are talking about me saying something like 'i dont think that's a substantive case')... but what's scummy about that?

SCUMMAN

1. That isn't a dismissal.
2. I'm telling him that he mixed up two different arguments.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Happy?

[podium123456]

GENTLEMEN, BEHO.. UNGHHHH

5 minutes later...

You, sir, are both a gentleman and a scholar

[podium123456]

sup /a/










sup nancy

[podium123456]

now you see me and my boy nacho? WE GET SHIT DUN. YA HURR ME? MOI can suck a bag o dicks.





and MAH MAN seacore comin thru with the revive. HOLLAH




xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


ok, so basically we have me/seacore pretty much confirmed town? right?

and ghost/implosion about the same. no?

[podium123456]

I disagree with you being on that list and to an extent Fate.

chicken agrees with this.

[podium123456]

off the cuff response: dont know right now. seacore and GW being town have thrown me off a little. i would say fate is more town than you, at this point, IMO.

why, do you have a plan or something?

[podium123456]

In case anyone was wondering, my special ability was that i could create an invention every night and give it to someone the next night... except i wouldn't know exactly what it did.

my N1 invention was a 'device that would tell me exactly what breasts someone was fantasizing about'.

[podium123456]

ok, i dont have a ton of analysis or anything... but in the interest of keeping the game moving, i'll just list what i'm feeling right now in order from scummiest to towniest. this just off top of my head and i dont remember all the roles.

zdenek
rc/chkflp
kcda
nacho
vv
nancy
imp
gw
sea
MEEEEEE


additionally:

suck my balls

[podium123456]

you did.

[podium123456]

you still need 2 votes to die.

[podium123456]

id probably rather lynch zdenek right now, but i dont really have a good reason, and i dont want to try and find one.

Vote: Kcdaspot

[podium123456]

I can barely remember what's going on. I hate no reveals, and i also didnt like how KC was lynched at L-2.

Anyway, i pretty much said that i was a chicken in my first post death post, and in #831... if that makes any difference. It wasn't something i was hiding.

I'll vote RC for the hell of it.

VOTE: RC

[podium123456]

I died N1, and haven't received anything in PM about an earth cloning device. i guess it's possible the mod didnt tell me, since i was dead. i will pm him to see if that is the case.

[podium123456]

no i didnt get anything

[podium123456]

thank god that worthless piece of shit Fate is out of this game.

[podium123456]

seacore... any good reason why i shouldnt think you are a scum reviver? considering i had a pretty scummy read on you pre-claim.

VOTE: chkflip