Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[MirrorIrorriM]

/confirm

This is the first time I have ever played mafia btw. I know the basics of how it works and what all the roles do, I just might make some common mistakes and junk, so beware!

[MirrorIrorriM]

/confirm
1. What is the origin of your username?
2. Why did you choose your avatar picture?
3. What time zone are you in?


PS. Mirror, i love your username, really creative. ^^

Why thank you good sir.

1. My username originated one day when I was trying to find a new username to replace my old one (which was Xtremheadblo; pretty retarded if I do say so myself). I eventually came up with Mirror, but sadly it was taken everywhere. Then I thought of MirrorrorriM, but that just didn't seem to pop out enough (I am very picky). So I thought of putting an "I" in between the "Mirror"s (you know cause it kinda looks like a divider/mirror) and then I got my username, MirrorIrorriM!

2. My avatar picture I made after a comic character I once made up named Koiki. I never did anything with it but I had the picture so I decided to use it.

3. I am on the east coast of the U.S. UTC -5 I think

[MirrorIrorriM]

vote:LlamaFluff

for not being named FluffyLlamasteinTheThird

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hey DP, I think your being a bit too rash in your rationalizations of things. It's really starting to make you look bad. :U

[MirrorIrorriM]

I love your 4 post block DP. I really think it shows that you talk before thinking things completely through, but enough of that.

Hello King and Lunatic, welcome to the party!

[MirrorIrorriM]

What makes everyone think BrentM is scummy? All I caught is that he was kinda defensive at times. May someone please enlighten me?

I figure I'd rather vote for the AFKish (sorta) guy first.

Who in particular?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.

So far I think DP is just a jerk and doesn't mark me as being scum.

Tanstalas marks me as slightly scummy for tunneling DP right off the bat, seems a little too sure of his accusations.

Pinewolf marks me as more scummy because he started accusing BrentM for things that I really didn't think made sense. His reference in post 46 to how BrentM saying "definitely" was suspicious seemed a little bit of a leap to me, perhaps he is scum searching for an excuse to get a wagon going on a town member?

@Pinewolf: Please tell me your exact intentions with the "definitely" accusation. It being too strong a word just doesn't seem to be any evidence for anything.

But until you answer,

Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf

PS. Is it bad to put someone at D-3 when there are 2 mafia? Is it considered too risky for them to be lynched unintentionally? If so I will no doubt remove my vote, really don't want to accidentally cause a lynch. ;-;

[MirrorIrorriM]

Sorry for double posting! I just forgot to address this.

VOTE: MirrorIrorriM

, I need to post this.

@King: Why? Am I lurking or something? Or is that a random vote?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Generally, just make it known if you put someone at L-1 or L-2 if you do so early in the game. There is nothing wrong with doing it.

Oh its 'L-#', not 'D-#'. Now I feel like a total newb.

[MirrorIrorriM]

The thing is I'm sick and can't go anywhere out or do anything. I also don't have any movies here. So the only thing i can do is post here and lurk the internet. But nothing was happening here, so i decided to write that post as it was sure to generate some kind of discussion.
As far as i can tell it was successful. While i was sleeping you made a ton of posts. That is good. It gives me something to do, plus it moves things along. No discussion is boring and brings nothing to anyone. If anything it hides the scum better.

So you directly posted a hollow accusation just to get discussion going? Seems kinda manipulative/scummy to me. :/ Although you don't mark me as very scummy (just slightly so), I'm going to keep my vote where it is for now.

[MirrorIrorriM]

BrentM: Seems like the biggest douchebag EVER!!! and a little scummy with a hint of noob.

@Brent: ...I don't try to pick on people on the lower level side of intelligence. It's like starting a battle of wits with an unarmed man, but I just couldn't resist.

Just remember that when you point fingers at someone, there are 3 pointing back.

The best way to anger people is to come in here, only having one or two posts, and then claim someone else is a douchebag and unintelligent. It's scummy and a huge jerk move.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.

I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hey LlamaFluff, I haven't heard you give your opinions on who is and who isn't scummy. Can I ask that you give one now?

[MirrorIrorriM]

I don't see it that way. I'm sorry, but i'm not a native english speaker, so that sounds exactly the way i wanted it to sound. :S
Talking from brentm's thought's perpective, that is...

Regardless, that we is HELLA suspicious. I'm keeping my vote where it is for the time being.

[MirrorIrorriM]

- if pine were scum, might he have told his scum pal lunatic that I was his target and to try and get the townies against me, thus the reason for all of the hate?

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be able to communicate privately since the day already started.

Looking back at this, he could have used the "we" in the context and grammar of the original question. However, I am still suspicious because his excuse is that he isn't a native english speaker, and he didn't say the grammar thing in his defense.

@Pine : You should have used they.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Pine and Mirror are scummy, but almost for sure not scum together.

Can you give a detailed explanation of why I am scummy? I can only picture myself coming off that way because of how quickly I judge people (not a good trait I admit ).

@Mirror - Can you summarize the Pine case?

Pine appears scummy to me cause he directly accused BrentM with pretty hollow evidence.

I am talking about the word definitely here. I think it's a bit of a too strong word to use here.

I found this to be irrational and seemed to me him trying to lead a charge on someone to get someone lynched for no real reason. His excuse for doing so was :

The thing is I'm sick and can't go anywhere out or do anything. I also don't have any movies here. So the only thing i can do is post here and lurk the internet. But nothing was happening here, so i decided to write that post as it was sure to generate some kind of discussion.
As far as i can tell it was successful. While i was sleeping you made a ton of posts. That is good. It gives me something to do, plus it moves things along. No discussion is boring and brings nothing to anyone. If anything it hides the scum better.

He says he made the accusation out of "boredom" and to get discussion going. I found that manipulative, something that mafia strive to be if I am not mistaken. But do not mistake me and think that I consider this worthy of a lynch. I find it suspicious but not worthy of a straight up lynch.

Also what makes the aggressiveness of Lunatic scummy while the aggro-DP is not scummy?

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

The reason DP isn't scummy to me is cause, although he was a jerk, he never accused anyone of anything (unless I missed it, which is quite probable). The only vote he made was when he did an OMGUS on tanstalas. I just didn't read DP as scummy in his posts, seemed more like a SE taking his role too personally.

PS almost missed this.

I actually feel pretty good about mirror being town. Mirror already explained why they didn't vote lunatic and Mirror also questioned the scum votes against me.

Me questioning the votes made against you doesn't necessarily prove innocence. :U Although I appreciate the thought. I was merely proving my point by telling people my outlook of the situation against you. Don't let someone's actions that are for your benefit cloud your judgment.

Again I ask you Llama (or anyone for that matter), please post anything I have done to appear scummy. I'm certain it was just a misunderstanding.

[MirrorIrorriM]

I don't see it that way. I'm sorry, but i'm not a native english speaker, so that sounds exactly the way i wanted it to sound. :S

Talking from brentm's thought's perpective, that is...

OOOOHHH! I missed that. My last few posts about suspicious towards you are nearly destroyed by that. I didn't see it, totally my bad.

Though rereading stuff now, i think it really is pretty much nonexistent. It seems more like new guy talk than scum talk, tbh. :/

I'm still a little suspicious of Pine, but I am satisfied by his defense at this point.

Unvote

[MirrorIrorriM]

Anyways, the reasons I think Mirror is scum

Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.

This is a classic slight tell actually, as it assumes that he will be alive on D2. The players with the best chance of being alive are scum, as they are not going to get nightkilled.

OK I really had no idea that scum have a higher chance of surviving. You must remember that I am totally new to this, I have only read till page 4 in one other, non completed, mafia thread (game 1033 to be exact) and gotten some knowledge from that; otherwise I would be totally lost. Although I really can't denounce that accusation with some fact, my only defense on that one is that I am new.

Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.

I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.

While the "no L-2 fear" had already been explained, this also is sidestepping the question of why Lunatic was scummy for being a jerk.

Sorry, I really haven't been reading posts thoroughly enough (see post #99).

The reason I found Lunatic scummy was cause his whole thing about being intellectual seemed like him forcing a leadership position. I mean, if someone is the leader, no one would suspect them (unless, again, I am wrong). He also took the side of everyone else in blaming brent, without providing any evidence of his own to support it, or saying which evidence he used to come to the conclusion. Seemed to me he was just imitating everyone else to seem townish. Again the reason I didn't vote for him was because of the L-2 fear. Also, and I'm not sure if my original post garnered this, I had no hard evidence to support me voting for him. One post, especially someone's only post, filled with mean comments does not garner a vote in my mind.

Pretty much I just re-said this :

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

So yeah that quote pretty much answers accusation 2 unless I am wrong.

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

But you called him scummy when you initally brought it up. What changed between then and now?

I don't see how that post says that I no longer find him scummy. I said he was agreeing with everyone else without providing evidence of his own or even finding other evidence to support it that someone else already said. And he was trying to garner a leadership role. Both are scummy to me. I know I'm basically saying the same thing over and over, but I really don't see how this does not answer both of your questions.

Basically you just accused me of something I already addressed. If I wasn't clear I will reiterate again.

[MirrorIrorriM]

King sure summed up a case against Lunatic better then I could. I'm starting to think I'm not a very observant person.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Mod: Can you give VOT Productions a prod? He hasn't had one post besides his joining confirmation.

Already done

[MirrorIrorriM]

I definitely have the evidence I need now to do this.

Vote: Lunaticlucas

PS I really didn't think of looking at people's past games to build evidence against them. It's genius.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Just realized my vote puts him at L-2. Just thought I should shout that out so no one else goes crazy and lynches him early. :U

[MirrorIrorriM]

Noticed there's no edit function, so I'll make a second post.

What do you mean by not voting? You mean can't vote or haven't voted?

Nice to hear from you. However there is no edit function cause it is illegal to edit your posts, under penalty of modkill. I recommend you read the rules on the first page.

I'm starting to think the same way, mirror.

Not to sound like a jerk, but this is acting VERY CHUMMY towards a person who was just making a ton of accusations towards you. As soon as I took my vote off of you, you acted as if I was now your ally. Seems like your desperate to gain friends in this game.

I can't decide between the lunatic and pine case. Both have evidence behind them. Pine with his manipulative playstyle and making so many excuses for himself, and Lunatic with his meta being completely inconsistent with this game (nice as apposed to controlling and cruel); I do not think they are on the same TEAM though. For now I like my vote where it is, however.

[MirrorIrorriM]

What do you mean by not voting? You mean can't vote or haven't voted?

Sorry! Forgot to actually answer your question. Not voting means you HAVEN'T voted. Anyone can vote, unvote, or change their vote whenever they feel like it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Pine seems like OBV. scum at this point.

Oh and why do you think so?

The way I see it, you are saying people are reading too deeply into your posts, something which we are SUPPOSED to be doing.

So don't try to read too much into fun posts. I might post some from time to time.

That is AWFULLY convenient. You can just claim whatever post you want is for "fun" and cannot be taken seriously. Also you just voted for VOT, without any evidence besides the fact that his posts are void of information and that he hasn't posted much. Seems like a stretch to draw attention away from yourself, at least to me.

Your really close to me putting you at L-1.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@mirror
I said you read into my fun post too deep. It wasn't really a relevant game post, just wanted to tell king how i make my posts. Thought i'd throw in something funny or sth. I thought it would be very obvious that it's not meant to be taken too seriously because of the smiley. I rarely use smilies. And if i do, take the post with a grain of salt.

Awfully convenient? Again, it's something that can be taken either way. In no way do I mean to abuse this and claim i meant a post to be fun when it was not. With as much reading into my posts as you guys do, i thought that would be obvious already...

Preview edit: I shall make another post concerning DP...

I love how you just shrug off my accusations and say "oh it can be taken either way" everytime I make an accusation. Your not offering any hard evidence against my case against you(lol). You repeatedly brush off my case as being ridiculous, you vote for someone like VOT to get pressure off of you, and now you say we shouldn't take your posts seriously. Sounds like a panicking scum to me (might just be my newbishness though).

@King I find you saying to "Lynch Lunatic first cause he's lurking" disturbing; scum-buddies with pine perhaps? Like DP said, if you lynch someone ACTIVE you can get much more conclusive evidence against them. Lurking helps find scum, it isn't a guarantee to my knowledge.

@DP I don't like you pushing me to vote for pine. You say to "hurry up and do it" yet we have 2 weeks to go. Although I find this mildly suspicious, I was going to do it anyways so.

Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf

This puts him at L-1, I request that no one hammer him yet; we have 2 weeks to go here people, we might be able to find his scumbuddy.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hurry up and vote for Pine now!

tbh. I find this highly suspicious. What's the hurry? Why are you so eager to lynch me? Do you have some other motive than scum hunting? It really colides with your early in day 1 statement. I have been careful not to put anyone at L-1 because of exactly that reason. But you show us 2 different ideas in 1 post.

Generally, just make it known if you put someone at L-1 or L-2 if you do so early in the game. There is nothing wrong with doing it.

Actually he said it is OK, just so long as you mention it to everyone. Do I detect more hollow accusations?


In response to post #137:

So you don't WANT to manipulate the truth, but you do so blatantly without caring. That's like a hitman saying he doesn't WANT to kill, it just puts bread on the table (note that I am not comparing YOU to a killer, just your statement to an excuse that could be used by one). Wanting to do something and doing it are two different things. We aren't blaming you for WANTING to manipulate people, we are blaming you FOR manipulating people.

You basically just described yourself. You just said that because your a newbie playing in a newbie game that you are innocent. You basically just said it can't be you because you are you.

In response to post #138:

I know that you didn't mean that ALL of your posts are for fun. Just SOME of them, and the whole "smiley" thing really sucks. While I understand that line of thinking "oh I'll just put a smiley so people know I'm not serious", it is really convenient to bring that up now that all of this heat is on you.

And your whole "you have to read my posts thoroughly" can be said as "interpret all my posts as if I am not scum".

[MirrorIrorriM]

So, who's your scum buddy?

'Cause he is totally just going to come out and say it.

I'm starting to hate the fact that i have to write everything 2 times to you mirror. For as much as you look for inconsistencies in my posts, you fail to notice my posts as whole and what i already adressed and what not...

I will admit I miss things alot, I'm still getting used to this whole mafia thing. You must have quite a keen eye (don't really have one ) to play it. :U

@ LlamaFluff: Are you perhaps Pine's scumbuddy?

Almost posted before this :

Then it looks like we have different opinions on what manipulating means...

Hollow accusations i don't think so. It's not about putting somebody at L-1 or L-2. His posts make it seem like he wants to

lynch

me. Which is inconsistent with what he's saying in the exact same post. It seems like he's hiding behind a case against me but adding subtle hints into his posts. I wrote something similar in that post, yet you decided to ignore it...

Ok, this is starting to become pointless. I obviously won't change your mind, no matter what i say. I responded to all the accusations multiple times and i really don't feel like repeating myself anymore. I'm not gonna respond to same accusations time and time again. Even if it's something from this very post...

I don't want to lynch prematurely, want to have the most ideal possible situation. And you blame me for WANTING to lynch you. I don't want to lynch YOU, I want to lynch SCUM; something I believe you are.
Then you say you wrote something similar in that post. I don't see it, so quote it directly. If you aren't scum then I am wasting the town's time blaming you. My best interests are the towns interests, which is lynching scum, not town. If you give me reason to no longer suspect you, I will by all means take it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

lolwut? I'm not at L-1? huh...

No problem DP.

@mirror. I was talking about DP wanting to lynch me, not you. (again...)
It was what you quoted. That bunch of questions. I'm sorry that it might not be perfectly clear and it confuses (or sth) you. It's merely the same thing said with different words.

@Pine Well alright then. You didn't use the "@playername" thing so I was unable to tell who you were talking too. :U You cant really blame me for that one.

I have to admit, Mirror's sense of humour is somewhat lacking.

Oh...sorry? I guess I'm taking this game really seriously, first one after all.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@MirrorIrorriM: Why do you think me and Pine are scumbuddies? Also, when did he "manipulate the truth"? Preview edit: Urgh, everybodys posting to quick for me to finish my post! He be all accusing LlamaFluff now, please explain this reasoning as well. As long as we're making claims for mafia partners, how about MirrorIrorriM and DavidParker, he did after all list you as "Obvious town", you seem to take your cues from him a bit and his recent "you ARE mafia, period." type of posting on Pine makes him seem scummy. Also he just ninja'd me with a post seemingly defending you for your whole "not notice joke" thing (which I won't comment on.), but if Pine flips town I could see this as defending you, his scumbuddy, from suspicion.

I thought you were scum buddies because you defended him while alot of other people were accusing pine. It was sort of a mild suspicion for you defending him for whatever reason, nothing more.

Pine didn't "manipulate the truth", he just plain manipulated. He made a hollow accusation, knowing there was none there, simply to get discussion going about a person. This marked me as scummy, you know, like he was trying to get someone lynched for no reason. Town's goal is to lynch scum, mafia's goal is to lynch and kill everyone else. They don't need evidence, just need to be able to rouse suspicions and plant seeds of doubt and treachery.

And the thing about LlamaFluff was more sarcastic, otherwise I would have pursued it. It was supposed to be a light joke because DP was just like, "so who is your scum buddy" and Llama defended pine and I'm just ITS HIM. It was a fail joke I am sorry.

Also the whole DP thing is pretty suspicious.

whee, triple post.

N-N-N-NINJA'D

[MirrorIrorriM]

@king
Yes. It is indeed that post...

PS. What is in that picture? I can't figure it out. :S

It's a bi-pedal mech with a guy wearing a motorcycle helmet driving it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Also, in the interests of pure readability for the players in this game, as well as my own sanity when doing vote counts, I'd like to request KingTwelveSixteen and VOT Productions get avatars.

Speaking of VOT, what is your take on all of this? I would really like to hear from you and Lunatic.

@VOT & Lunatic: Please comment with some worthwhile information. You guys are being REALLY lurky and it is quite unsettling.

Preview Edit: oh hey lunatic your alive, good to hear from you.

Preview Edit again: Yes BrentM, you have been pretty distant from all of this, please say something.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@DP Those percentages are cute.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Tons of stuff he said

OK I don't know where to start to I will just cover them as I think of them.

You blame me for the "manipulating the truth" thing. That is a simple miswording. I got excited and started shooting out posts like a maniac. It is a simple miswording, I meant to say he was "manipulating the town". Manipulating the truth would be lying, something he never did to my knowledge (only thing he could lie about is the language barrier).

You question my accusation of Tanstalas tunneling DP. That was before I learned how great an accusation "tunneling" is. A better word would have been that he ACCUSED him right off the bat.

You question me for saying "I really had no idea that scum have a higher chance of surviving". Truth is, two people die every night, the chances of mafia dying would be quite high right? I didn't think about the fact that one of those people the mafia specifically exclude to kill each night. I really didn't think the game through that much until Llama called it out. Also when I say "I didn't think it through" know that it didn't occur to me at all. Call me an imbecile.

You blame me for answering something someone else asked. Notice that I did the same when Pine asked about your avatar. :U I'm just that kinda guy, if I see a question I have any sort of an answer to, I spring for it.

At one part you have a string of 4 questions, they are:
1. Whats with the (lol)?
2. "Sounds like a panicking scum to me (might just be my newbishness though)." Trying to defend yourself from inevitible town flip?
3. Takes a cue from DP, also suggests me being scum-buddies with Pine.
4. Says he doesn't like DP pushing him to vote for Pine but does so anyway.

Answers:
1. I did the lol because I said "...hard evidence against my case against you". I just think it is funny how I repeated against. Like, I am against you for being against my case against those who are against - ect.
2. I honestly can't trust my own opinion in my first game of mafia. *shrug* It is just such a new experience, with me never playing a game like it, that I make assumptions very quickly and do not know yet how to read peoples reactions. To me that seemed like he was panicking. I was kinda hoping someone experienced would tell me if that is the nature of panicking scum and correct me if I was wrong.
3. I did NOT take a cure from DP when I voted for Pine. When I visit this thread, I read all the new posts, from beginning to end. About half way through them I saw stuff that convinced me that Pine was scum (him making excuses). So I had it in my mind to do so, however DP already said that people should go ahead and vote for him. It was a coincidence, one that I addressed actually when I said "I don't like you pushing me to vote for pine...Although I find this mildly suspicious, I was going to do it anyways so.". I said you are scum-buddies in a paranoid fit because you defended Pine.
4. Kinda covered by 3 but I'll answer it anyways. I Didn't like DP pushing me yes, but is that reason to not do so? If someone told you to look up the information to back this post I'm currently addressing, would you not do it? No you would still do it, because you PLANNED to do it anyways. I already had it in my mind to vote for Pine, DP just so happen to ask me to.

The accusation about my joke accusing Llama, while I was DIRECTLY blaming Pine for joke stuff: I was completely hypocritical in doing so I will admit. I really wasn't thinking. I have no excuse, I wasn't tired, I wasn't doing something else and was distracted, I just did something really stupid. I was thinking I would add a lighthearted air to all of this seriousness. You know, lighten the moment. So I decided to do it as a funny response to DP's post saying "So who is your scum buddy?" to pine. Unfortunately for me, the correlation between my joke and this post wasn't realized. As was latter addressed, my sense of humor is quite lacking. What I thought would be a nice funny touch completely failed and was misinterpreted.

Like I said before though. The accusation on you was made in a paranoid rage. :U I would be lying if I said I did it jokingly.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Crap. I was thinking that spoiler would put it in one of those clicky things so that it drops down. Sorry.

I should probably use that spoiler thing for quotes from now on.

Just remember that the "spoiler" option makes text go like

this

.

"spoiler=" is like

Spoiler:

this.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@King: Could you please give me your response to my post answering your accusations?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Warning this post has been made really late at night. I might wake up in the morning and realize this is stupid or something, just be advised.

Well it seems all the heat for the Pine case has cooled down *shrug*. I tried to make you crack under pressure Pine, but you managed to stay cool whilst we thought you were at L-1. I really do not have any more evidence against you to continue my case. So for now:

Unvote

Preview Edit:
@ King in answer to him saying I answered 4.c wrong.

Me agreeing with DP is simply cause it makes sense in my mind. If you are at a court case and the criminal is sick, do you still arrest him? No, you try to hold the court on another day (unless he dodges it like crazy, then you force it). If someone is unavailable to make a case, and there are other cases going on with evidence behind them, wouldn't it make more sense to pursue those to get information?

And again if it need be addressed. My accusation against you was simply because I am being paranoid about this game. Your case against me seems too honest for me to really call you scum at all. [following text from your perspective] I mean this guy is making some steep accusations. He could be scum trying to get us to lynch some poor innocent townie! [/no longer in your perspective] It is an honest, well backed case. Although I have plenty of evidence to denounce* your accusations in an honest manner.

*Except the cases where I used an improper word or was joking and it was misinterpreted or claimed I did it out of being a newbie. No tangible evidence can be provided against that. For those cases you would have to weigh a mafia member's options and their advantages realistically. [in your perspective] What would he gain from lying here, what would he gain from claiming it as fluke? [/no longer in your perspective] I would have gained nothing (unless, again, there is some strategy I am unaware of) to help further my case. Therefore it must be a fluke.

Preview Edit 2:

Spoiler:

This is so going to be used against me if I become inactive later on.

@ Lunatic: Although it isn't a free pass sort of thing, I would think it would be more advantageous for the mafia to be active (or at least present) on the first day when the evidence is the most shakey. When the following days come there is more evidence to go around, meaning mafia want to be quiet so they don't say something to connect evidence (night kills, who they accused ect) to them.

[MirrorIrorriM]

BrentM you make a very excellent point. I would like to hear answers from you Llama.

Vote: LlamaFluff

[MirrorIrorriM]

BrentM you make a very excellent point. I would like to hear answers from you Llama.

Vote: LlamaFluff

By the way, I counted 6 posts in other mafia games during his "finals" away session; none of which say he is going to be away in the other games. All of the posts are within 2 days and are less then a few hours apart; meaning he had plenty of time for uninterrupted posting. Whats the matter Llama? Is this game not working out for you?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh hey someone already said the fact that he posted 6 times when he said he was supposed to be away. I missed the specific number. :\ I completely missed that even though it was in the center of the post I quoted.

Pine, Llama's actions are the reason for my theory. Your scrambling defense only makes me feel stronger about it. You can't keep playing the newbie card on me and no, I do not think Llama is protecting town.

Also, I read a game where DP was the doctor and aggressiveness is definitely his playing style.

Spoiler:

Hmpf. Seems like anything i say even if it's meant as lighting all the options is simply thrown away and regarded as scrambling defense or paranaoid defense or sth. If we go by your logic it's suspicious how you defend DP in this last post. It could mean you and him are scum buddies. Same logic as with your case about me and Llama. And also let's not forget about that early post #24 of his. It's the same deal. I would also like if you point me to this game you're talking about.
Let the man speak on his own already. He doesn't need you and mirror answering my questions and accusations meant for him. It enables him to lurk around without having to answer anything. When i'll want you answering a question of mine i'll make sure it's a question for you, and not for DP.

I have played no newbie card on you. I have simply put light so many other options your theory can be seen as. If you wish to read it as a scrambling defense it's up to you. But it's been said many times that anything can be taken as anything if you believe in it. You seem to believe in your theory a lot. That's why i decided to show you the hole in your theory plus other options that are entirely possible.

@BrentM: I disagree with you saying the defense was a scrambling one. Although I doesn't remove my suspicion of him, he does make a representable case. He explained himself for the VOT vote; giving solid reasoning behind it. It was a vote to convince him to speak up, it probably wasn't intended to get him lynched.

@DP: I have to agree with pine on this one, your eagerness to lynch Pine just doesn't feel right. It feels just so...sure of itself. Either it's you being a reckless townie or scum trying to get someone lynched. If not for you creating evidence of your own to back your claims on occasion I would blame you for just trying to blend into the crowd to avoid suspicion.

@Pine: Although you are still the top on my scum-suspicion list, you have provided a case for yourself. A case that, for the time being, keeps my vote off of you. I do not think you have much solid evidence for yourself though. Merely your attitude doesn't feel extraordinarily scummy to me (could just be that my scum-radar hasn't developed). You do make a huge thing about the "Llama and you being scum buddies" thing that I don't agree with though. Yes the accusation assumes you are scum, this is true, but don't all accusations? We know there are 2 scum, both are looking out for each other, you and Llama follow this quite perfectly. It is to our best interest to discover who could be your possible accomplice if you turn out to be scum, that way we have something to go off D2.

@Llama: I really want to hear from you, your disappearance is quite suspicious.

Preview Edit: OK wall post by DP, let me just finish this post and I'll read it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

BIIIIG wall post

Also, what is everyone's opinions on Tanstalas' "role speculation" that I brought up? Do you find it valid?

I'm really just digesting your comeback. I don't like how you had nothing about the accusation with me and you being scumbuddies though. You being so nice to me really puts off a bad image.

Your analyzation of Pine and his case blow mine away. Mostly because you have the experience to know what is and what isn't a scum-tell whereas I do not. Mostly your accusations are based on the the assumption that Pine is flailing desperately to get the attention off of him. Something which a struggling scum would no doubt do.

Your accusation that King's wall post was crap confuses me. I thought it was quite good.

As to your speculation of Tanstalas trying to expose the power roles; I think it is a stretch. It seems like he is trying to give advice as one of the non-newbies here. I feel like it was quite an honest attempt at helping (again for the millionth time, this could be my newbishness showing).

I really feel like Llama is more scum then Tanstalas though. Llama practically lied with the whole "away for finals" thing. He remained active in other games but ignored this one. Seems awfully convenient for him to just avoid this game after making the accusations and points that he did. Keeps the blame/attention off of him you know?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Spoiler:

For what Brent has been saying, his entire case hinges on Pine being scum first. If Pine is town, just about every point against me is gone since I am no longer trying to "get suspicion off a scum buddy". Im calling Brent, DP town and solidly leaning Pine as town here. Especially Brent for his recent posts.

@Brent - Am I also scum if Pine is town?
@Mirror - If you want me to scan my note page for the finals ive already taken I will. I am making about two posts a day and posted last 24 hours ago. That is not bad for activity when my other game posts were in an ultra-fast paced game (35 pages in two weeks including thanksgiving) that was reaching deadline/starting day.
@Mirror - Do you think that DP is scum or town?
@tans - I can link you to my last game as scum, but its been over a month ago now I think.

~~~~

Mirror is still really setting off alarms for me on mostly a gut level, but there are some things there that are decent tells. Recently we have things like his wierd move to the Pine wagon.

For a long time he called him scum, but was amazingly reluctant to vote him, it really seemed like it was a forced move more than anything else. You can compare this with his vote on lunatic which seemed to just be a quick move. I do not understand what seems to be more of a fear in putting Pine at L-1 when he thinks that he is scum. Its worth noting that his vote on lunatic was a L-2 vote, and on much less evidence presented by him, this upping of the anti or whatever better analogy you can come up with feels wrong.

This puts him at L-1, I request that no one hammer him yet; we have 2 weeks to go here people, we might be able to find his scumbuddy.

Not as sure if this is a tell, but its worth pointing out at this point that its a bad thing to do, and scum LOVE to do it. If you start searching for a partner before night, scum can manipulate the heck out of reads, and have better ideas of what good night actions are. Especially with Pine not being confirmed scum, if Pine flips scum, we just got two weeks of noise to deal with. Starting step B before step A finishes can cause problems.

Here its a good time to point out that manipulation is not necessarily a scum tell. Its worth the time to try and guide other players into doing what you want them to do as town. I have done it plenty of times when I see people not really listening to things that I am saying, just try and nudge them there subtely instead of putting up walls of text. Also its a great thing to do if you are a PR to get people to follow information you may have without claiming.

If to make a point more then anything else

unvote
Vote Mirror

Your accusation that I just made some "quick move" to vote for Lunatic is simply not true. I had posted saying I didn't like the vibe of his posts, saying it was suspicious and I had the whole "leadership role" and "he is just jumping on an already popular wagon" thing. After King did his post showing that Lunatic played totally different in other games, I took this (being new) as irrefutable evidence and jumped on it. I later learned that metas aren's as reliable as I thought. Which is why I no longer pursued the case, simply because he has so few posts I couldn't form and hold an accusation at the time.

My thing about having an odd switch up with Pine is simply because I was very caught between them both. I really could not decide who I thought was more scummy. I just sorta staggered at parts and voted for whichever one offered a better gut feeling at the time. Although now I don't think Lunatic is as scummy as Pine.

I feared putting Pine as L-1 cause I was afraid scum would lynch him right off the bat and we would never learn anything from him or he wouldn't be able to offer a case if he was innocent. I later learned this is horrible practice for mafia (makes sense) as it reveals them.

Your accusation that scum love to try and get scumbuddies before conclusive evidence is placed on someone also I can deny. Doesn't it make sense to try and learn as much as possible in one day? What is better, just lynching someone who you know to be scum (no one in particular, just a term used in example); or lynching them, and also learning who their buddies are, their respective roles in the mafia, and everyone they are pursuing and why? I thought it would be best to try and look to see who his scum buddy would be, because he really does mark me as the scummiest person here. Except right now I feel it is you (but that is totally bias cause you are pushing me right now, ask me in 2 rl days and I will probably have a different opinion.)

Your whole thing of manipulation as a townie just isn't right in my mind. :\ Town have no real reason to ever lie or bend the truth. Everything can be deduced with honesty and justice if you try hard enough.

Preview Edit: OK huge wall post by Pine, gonna have to read up on that and comment later.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Llama

I forgot to answer your question about whether I think DP is scum or not. Truth is I really don't like how he sounds. He just comes in and destroys cases. Not like he comes in and provides tons of evidence though. He went into King's post and goes "I could pick this thing apart, but I wont". He gives off a vibe of being so sure of himself it is suspicious. He is pushy, especially towards me (I'm easily manipulated I admit). He just assumes a leadership position, something which was half of my case against Lunatic. If all this Pine stuff turns out to just be some futile argument among townies, he is definitely going to shoot to the top of my suspicion list. My biggest vibe against him is how hard he is pushing Pine. I think Pine is scum for the most part, no doubting that. But he acts like he KNOWS your scum. I said this before I think; DP acts like either a completely reckless town, or a scum pushing a popular wagon (Pine's).

[MirrorIrorriM]

If what DP says it true, then this game is going to be a heck of alot harder then I thought.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Probably will be absent for 4-6 hours. Just a heads up.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Alright I'm back! And...Nothing really happened except for an accusation made by King. You people disappoint me.

After reading King's post:

Very good points. Questioning people, getting on them for not answering questions, and refusing questions when they are asked to you. Sounds really scummy.

@DP Would really like to hear a defense from you if you will please offer one.

Unvote
Vote: DavidParker

(This is more of a "bringing on the heat" kinda vote. I still don't like Llama (which is TOTALLY biased cause he voted for me ) but I would REALLY like to hear a response from DP. He has been suspicious for a LOOONG time now.)

[MirrorIrorriM]

I am on my phone, so it is too difficult to quote your previous post, but Pine you did try and blame my theory on "newbieness". That is playing the newbie card.

And you made a general statement about DP, seemingly to get others to back you. I'm not allowed to comment on it if I disagree and have evidence for my disagreement? I'll give you a link to the game after I get off work.

Game I was referring to

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15318

I noticed a lot of the same rash behavior he has displayed in here, but that is by no means an excuse

With a quote like:

Timmer is town, Dean is scum.

Let's get moving towards his lynch now.

on page 4.

He turns out to be doctor in that game, how can we be sure of anything?!

[MirrorIrorriM]

He contridicted himself in a single post and you only think he's slightly scummy? That seems extrordinarily scummy to me. I mean the contradiction, not your not thinking he's scummy.

Referring to me or someone else? If me then I really have to apologize. I took my vote off of him because he made a nice case for himself I thought. I wanted to branch out and find scummier people. I guess it doesn't make sense for me to take the vote OFF of him but it doesn't make much of a difference in my mind. If I find someone scummier, I put my vote on them, if I find no one else or I find more evidence against Pine, I vote for him again. It really doesn't seem to make sense that it is contradictory. It makes no real difference in the long run.

[MirrorIrorriM]

It seemed that you decided Pine was scum around your iso 22. Just almost was a matter of convincing yourself that it was true.

iso 22? What's that?

Well, if scum knows they have a cop confirmed guilty on them the best play is to actually stop posting entirely if they know they cant get the cop lynched in return. Its fine to think about who partners are, I do that all the time whenever I push someone. I even think about it as scum when I make pushes of who I can make look like partners to who. Its a very dangerous thing to start discussing publicly though because it can easily be manipulated beyond reason. Its rare to get a 100% for sure scum flip though, ive been playing for over two years and I only have been more then about 80-90% sure of a scum flip just a few times.

What does the cop have to do with this? I was talking about what the roles of the mafia are. You know like, find out who the mafiaroleblocker is so you know to lynch them to be more efficiant. :U

Also your thing about manipulation I still don't agree with. Although I see the obvious advantage of it, I still think it is wrong to manipulate people, you know, from the moral sense.

Also in response to everyone's thing about my craaaazy voting pattern: I don't see the big deal. Earlier on the same kinda thing was happening. Like when King posted,

Whatever,

VOTE: MirrorIrorriM

,

I need to post this.

JUST to get my attention and read my reaction (as he later said); no one got on his case. Or when I posted,

@Pinewolf: Please tell me your exact intentions with the "definitely" accusation. It being too strong a word just doesn't seem to be any evidence for anything.

But until you answer,

Unvote
Vote: Pinewolf

No one accused me for doing then either! I don't see what changed since then.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh forgot to say this:

After reading DP's meta, I really don't think that him acting the way he does forms any sort of an argument against him. I really think he is probably town.

Unvote

@Llama: Oh thanks! This is extremely convenient.

[MirrorIrorriM]

OK BACK! Sorry I was too busy to post. I stayed caught up with everything though.

He went into King's post and goes "I could pick this thing apart, but I wont". He gives off a vibe of being so sure of himself it is suspicious.

Can you quote a post on that for me?

Sure thing. It is his iso post 24

I'm sorry. I actually chuckled to myself.

I was actually going to respond to King's post and just tear it to peaces but I can see he's trying.

(And I think he's probably town but due to different reasons to you, I just get a newbie town vibe from him). King's huge wall post was useless.

I was a little off in my wording. But the meaning was the same.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh forgot to say this:

Since everyone says I should JUST vote for the person who I think is the scummiest and not just to get people's attention, I will place my vote accordingly.

Vote: Pinewolf

[MirrorIrorriM]

I still say Pine is town, and what he claims. Other town are DP and Brent, KTS is getting there quickly. Think that Mirror and Tans are a decent pair for scum, lurker can easily work there too. Mod really should be on him more, three posts in ten days is unacceptable.

You claim I am scumbuddies with Tanstalas, how do you come to that conclusion?

You've been on my back almost this entire game and it is really starting to seem like a hollow case honestly. *shrug* I might have made some typos and mistakes here and there; but your constant persistence of lynching me when there is no real evidence to back your claims is really starting to get tiring. It almost seems like you have singled me out to chase down and get lynched. All mistakes and "scumtells" that you have blamed me for are merely mistakes on a newbie player's part. Sure if you use reverse psychology you can see that certain tactics in the long run are bad for town, but I am trying my best here. I haven't read any games (except for a few pages in newbie game 1033), I haven't played any other games; any advice that comes to mind that seems good at face value appears worthwhile in my mind, even if scum often use it to deceive others.

@Pinewolf: Claiming vanilla townie eh? I'll have to remember you said that for future reference.

[MirrorIrorriM]

As much as i think not lynhing someone who has claimed VT isn't very pro-town, as long as we are lynching scum i am happy. AT the moment i am more convinced of tanst scum than pine scum. Although I still find pine quite scummy and a "possible" buddy for tanst.

Not doing what you say you are going to then changing your vote right as everyone is going "Eh, I guess we should lynch Pine anyway then"?
(Or at least I was doing that.)
You are making me ever-more convinced of your scummyness. Please respond to the things we are accusing/asking you about.[/quote]

Very good points. But I still feel Pine to be the scummiest here. Although my reasons for thinking that seem so distant now. I still kinda don't believe your whole "english isn't my first language" thing; however, I do not have any sort of a meta to back my suspicion, so to be fair I have to consider that as being true for the most part. I guess the only person who I have any suspicion towards besides Pine is Tanstalas, DP, and Llama.

Tanstalas is just a hunch though, I couldn't find anything when I skimmed him in iso. I'm still trying to see Llama's case about us being scumbuddies...just doesn't make much sense to me.

DP has acted strangely this game, which I think is suspicious. Although, again, his meta shows that he is really reckless even as a PR.

Llama has this whole thing about Pine not being scum, although looking in iso he only said one time that he was scummy in his 12th iso post. I would call him scum with Pine, but that is (like it has been said before) completely dependent on Pine being scum. Otherwise he was just trying to protect a newbie with heat on him, which appears to me to be the more likely choice. The main thing I don't like is his attacks against me (guess why, just guess). At first he just hinted that I might be scum, then brought it into a big assault against me; I denounced it and he disappears for a bit. Then he resurfaces, and accuses me again! Seems like someone trying to, as he claims is such a great "town" tactic, covertly manipulate people against me.

(My little rant)

Ok. Now change yourself with me and Llama with DP and you pretty much have our situation...

@Pine: Not true at all. For you maybe, but for Llama that makes no sense. Me and Llama's situation are quite different. People haven't been seriously on Llama's case like I have on yours. Oh and also people haven't been on my case nearly as much as they have on yours. If you put yourself in my shoes the situation isn't as severe.

As for who I really think is scum at this point...I just don't know. Either all my previous suspects have learned to hide their mistakes, or I was wrong. I just don't know who to believe anymore.

Also I don't really see the point of the whole "he is innocent cause he got emotional" case. It just marks me as a last ditch effort to seem good.

Oh wow this is longer then I expected. Sorry!

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Llama for post #285: You say "see previous cases", didn't I respond and answer all of those? You haven't responded to my defense at all, you just seem to be ignoring it.

@Tanstalas: I'll try and take you up on your offer of reading your metas. However, this could be you being scum and your playing a new strategy, which would explain your eagerness to have us meta you. However, on the same token, you could be town wanting to clear your head from suspicion. I'll try and remember to read them in the morning.

@DP: Please answer King's questions and his cases against you. You said earlier to engage in conversation that would help us to find scum, whereas you dodge all questions sent towards you by acting like they are ridiculous. I got on Pine for that earlier, and now I'm kinda ticked that your doing it too.

By the way that post of DP's is:

So why aren't you

posting in a way to get reactions/find information/analyse players

so you can find a person who is "worthy" of your vote? Wouldn't that be the pro-town thing to do, rather than throwing in the towel, saying "i have no idea, i'll just put a vote on this guy for nor reason, and that's the end of my post"

Preview Edit: Oh hey DP finally answered the questions.

[MirrorIrorriM]

You're making mountains out of molehills on your case.

Then it should be no problem to answer his questions wont it?

[MirrorIrorriM]

On the DP wagon: Remember when you vote DP for not answering questions and playing so aggressively that he ALWAYS plays like that in every game I have looked at that he is in. Although he is nearly on equal levels with my suspicion as Pine, he has a meta to back his case of that just being his playstyle; no matter how much I or anyone dislikes it.

@DP: Even if you find questions to be ridiculous and you deem them "unworthy" to be answered. Please do so anyways! Sometimes people make quite reasonable requests and your ignoring of it makes so we cant scumhunt as well.

[MirrorIrorriM]

On the DP wagon: Remember when you vote DP for not answering questions and playing so aggressively that he ALWAYS plays like that in every game I have looked at that he is in. Although he is nearly on equal levels with my suspicion as Pine, he has a meta to back his case of that just being his playstyle;

no matter how much I or anyone dislikes it.

@DP: Even if you find questions to be ridiculous and you deem them "unworthy" to be answered. Please do so anyways! Sometimes people make quite reasonable requests and your ignoring of it makes so we cant scumhunt as well.

To clear up the underlined area (grammar was a little weird). "No matter how much I or anyone else dislikes his playstyle."

[MirrorIrorriM]

What makes

intentionally

ignoring questions a scum tell? Is it not just anti-town?

Because, assuming you are scum, intentionally ignoring questions that would lead to you being lynched might make the person forget about them. Making you go in the clear once attention is diverted from you.

The "i'm too lazy defence", once again how is that scummY?

Because it is an easy excuse for anyone (scum) to make. You using it constantly to avoid questions just makes you seem super scummy.

Btw, this is number 5 (in terms of ignoring those questions)

Now you're just being a jerk.

I'm equally torn between Pine and DP, however I don't believe they could be scum buddies; DP pushed Pine too hard for that I think. However, then again, you have played plenty of games up to this point. So you might just be going all reverse psychology on us (although that can be said for literally anything).

Ah, so your defense is now that you are just anti-town.
.
..
...
Do I even need to say why I think we should lynch you anymore?

I loled at this. But seriously DP, you are putting up a horrible defense.

Like I said, I am completely torn between the DP and Pine case and can't decide between them.

Unvote

Preview Edit:

Oh hey DP. I think you are forgetting King HAS scum hunted others. And also you say he is "ignoring the lurker".

Didn't you say yourself that it is better to lynch someone active who you have evidence against, then to just lynch some random lurker on day one?

This complete self-contradiction to further your case locks your position as scum in my mind.

Vote: DavidParker

[MirrorIrorriM]

By the way, here is that quote I mentioned.

I'd rather lynch someone day one because they have contributed and acted, but done so in a scummy way, than because they haven't contributed or acted at all.

You get more information from lynching someone who has put down their thoughts and I find it's just as likely (if not more likely) to flip scum.

Lynching someone for "lurking" or not contributing gets us where? Day 2 lynches/discussion will largely be as a result of the flip(town or scum) of the person who gets lynched on day 1 (and to a lesser extent the night kill), so an information lynch (on someone who is scummy) is more desired than a lynch on someone for lurking/not doing enough. They can be dealt with at a later time.

That quote is his iso 17.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Welcome to the party Singer! Having a fresh opinion on all this hoopla will be very nice.

[MirrorIrorriM]

...Didn't you renounce the whole "Pine is scum" thing a couple pages ago?

Actually no he didn't.

AT the moment i am more convinced of tanst scum than pine scum. Although

I still find pine quite scummy

and a "possible" buddy for tanst.

[MirrorIrorriM]

So...did you know you can't hum while plugging your nose?

Luke Skywalker: It's not true...

THATS IMPOSSIBLE

!

[MirrorIrorriM]

...DP is just so scummy!

Ok King, I'm starting to think you are getting a bit TOO excited about DP. Some of your posts have letters like

THIS

when you try to emphasize/prove your point. It makes some of your stuff annoying to read. Just bolding or underlining something will be enough.

[MirrorIrorriM]

OK I have been seeing this "VI" thing alot in every thread I read. What does it mean exactly? Is it like really positive or negative?

Sorry if my this and the previous post been kinda useless.

[MirrorIrorriM]

I really don't see the case for singer. She just sounds like a townie making realistic analysis. I also don't like a lunatic now that he has been replaced by Uite. Lunatic just doesn't have enough posts for me to like lynching him at this point. Although I did find him suspicious while he was around, I really think DP has a stronger case going against him.

As i've been saying singer is probably scum, first thing tanst has got right!

When did you say this? You sorta said some things that were negative about her but never actually accused her for being scummy. This just seems like a desperate defense.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Mirror: Despite my town tell on him he still seemed to copy many of DP's votes and stuff earlier so I must include him as a possibility.

I can easily explain that. When I first started in this mafia game, I had no idea what I was doing. Whenever I would get an idea about who is scummy, if someone agreed with me (especially someone who has played other games prior) I immediately assumed I was right; hence my religious pushing of Pine. I didn't think deeply enough into it to realize that DP was possibly scum and I was following him / he was following me (can't remember which). I have learned now that you can't trust anyone, while still taking their input to help you find who is best to vote for.

[MirrorIrorriM]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Deadline extension

You can do that?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Just realized I haven't posted anything significant in a while, so I shall do that now with a comparison between the Lunatic and DP wagons and why I think the DP wagon is better.

The Lunatic wagon is based off of 9 posts (not including confirmation post). Although alot of information could be given out in that time, I feel as if it is lacking. His posts consist of 2 scum/town lists, 3 posts about why lurking is bad, 1 post explaining his second wall post, 3 posts saying pine is scummy (second of which he mysteriously votes Llama). He also had a major attitude change halfway through the game, and his demeanor was quite scummy throughout. His 9 posts, although providing decent evidence against him by themselves, doesn't compare to the evidence on the DP wagon. In addition to his few posts, he has been replaced; destroying any opportunity to question him. The amount of evidence against Lunatic is all we will ever get, even though it is heavy (strong, good, whatever).

The DP wagon is based on his numerous posts showing inconsistent behavior. He has desperately voted on other people to try to get attention off himself many times. He refuses to answer questions and plays everything against him down like it is merely childish accusations. DP at this point is acting the most erratic of the entire game in direct accordance with how much pressure is on him; seems to me that he is breaking.

Whereas Lunatic has 9 posts with scummy sprinkled all over them, DP has much more posts backing the wagon against him.

For anyone that might wish to vote DP or Lunatic, remember that they are at L-1, so be sure of your vote before placing it!

Spoiler:

Sorry if my thing on Lunatic was longer then the one about DP. It was much easier to write because I could look at all his posts in 1 page of iso

Preview Edit:

@Tanstalas: That wasn't what I meant. I meant I didn't know you could actually divert your LYNCHING VOTE to that. I thought the mod meant for us to say

Please give an extension

(btw that is my official request mod ) not VOTE: Deadline Extension. I was questioning the fact that he can actually divert his official vote to that. Not whether we could request a deadline extension in general.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Llama: So your saying he is taking all sides, so as not to face consequences (from scum point of view) if a person flips town when lynched?

[MirrorIrorriM]

lol. Sorry. I just had too much fun with that. Too bad the font only goes up the 300, and there's no code for fireworks and sparkles. lol.

What about these?

Or are they too small?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Speaking of pine. He hasn't said anything for almost 4 days!

@Pine: Please give an analysis of current events. You disappearing is kinda weird since you were to active before.

[MirrorIrorriM]

If you vote for Uite I will unvote and hammer, if you vote for DP then that would be the hammer.

Cast a vote! Your inability to is becoming concerning

Don't want an early lynch so,

Unvote

[MirrorIrorriM]

VOTE: DavidParker

Why did you suddenly change from Pine and Singer being scum, to DP being scum? It seems like a very fast change of opinion with not much grounds behind it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Which reminds me, nobody has explained to me why [Pine's] wagon ended yet. It just seemed too sudden. I'm also not very comfortable going after him when he's MIA.

@Uite: The reason it ended (for me at least) was how hard/recklessly DP was pushing him. He was just acting so crazy I figured he was scum pushing a newbie who looked like scum. Currently I think DP is scummier then Pine, but if DP isn't scum then I will be dumb founded for answers and probably go back to Pine or accuse Llama for his earlier actions. (I didn't want to push Llama when he accused me of being scum because I was afraid that my vision would be clouded by the fact that I was his target; didn't want to OMGUS him, although it seems I wasn't defensive/offensive enough towards him in hindsight.)

[MirrorIrorriM]

Pine should definitely stay if he wants to. If he were to get replaced it wouldn't even make a difference for this day.

[MirrorIrorriM]

...Did anyone else have a little light in their head say

scum

when they read Uite's V/LA post?

I think your just being overly cautious (says the guy who was going crazy for half the game).

[MirrorIrorriM]

I'm just not seeing the case for Uite. He seems overly defensive but I think it is just because he is trying to repair his predecessors mistakes. He is definitely third on my scum list (DP, Pine, Uite; respectively) but that is only because of how scummy his predecessor was.

[MirrorIrorriM]

DP is also a bit better as an information lynch since he has been talking and accusing people and whatnot for much longer than Uite (and lunatic didn't do much of anything).

Hmmm...

"Hmmm..."? What is that supposed to mean exactly?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Merry Christmas everybody!

[MirrorIrorriM]

Also, I don't understand why uite is not voting for me. Seems like some kind of deflection that isn't very townish.

Him voting you would be OMGUS. Which is exactly why I don't vote Llama even though he won't quit calling me scummy even when I fully explain myself. He even at one point admitted that I wasn't scum, but still persists with the accusation.

As for Uite I don't like him being the lynch for today. He doesn't mark me as scummy and everyone is just interpreting everything he says as being scum because of his predecessor (not necessarily bad in its own right).

Also the reason I took my vote off DP was so BrentM wouldn't go crazy and lynch him early. Since DP is at L-3,

VOTE: DavidParker

I still think DP is the best lynch for today with Pine being second. However, if either Pine or DP is scum it would probably mean the other is innocent; on account of how hard DP pushed Pine.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hey I've seen people mention "claiming" several times. What exactly does it mean to "claim"?

[MirrorIrorriM]

What's wrong with OMGUS?? And who says it is. There's a thing called survival! It's just logical at/near deadline if there are 2 major wagons (player X and player Y) that they vote one another. Whether you are town or scum it makes sense, unless you have some way of being 100% certain the other player is town.

@DP: It is bad because it conveys little information. If someone accuses you of something and has proof to back their case, and then you turn around and accuse THEM with little to no evidence, then it doesn't help anyone does it? I agree that by the time the day is almost over it ends with 2 people fighting and voting each other, but still that doesn't make it necessarily right. You just voting the other person to try and get them lynched cause they aren't you and you "know your town" isn't a good reason to vote them. I have been told time and time again you vote who you BELIEVE is scum, not vote someone who is about to be hammered simply for the sake of self preservation. Also you saying "And who says it is." doesn't really make sense. Correct me if I am wrong but, wasn't that the general opinion that OMGUS is not helpful to town? Just like how manipulation is the scummiest frikken thing and you know it Llama. (that last sentence was more at Llama then DP )

[MirrorIrorriM]

Well now what? I'm just trying to look at DP's posts as him being town. Pretty hard

[MirrorIrorriM]

Llama you have been calling me scum for nearly this entire game. But only once did you make a solid case (which I was able to shoot down). Even when your evidence is gone you still accuse me for whatever reason you see fit. The new "scum with tans" thing is kinda unfounded too. The only real evidence for it is me and him following similar voting patterns. Also if you notice I followed BrentM's voting patterns far more closely then Tans. Brent turned out to be town in the end, so what makes you think me closely following Tans automatically makes US scum? You accused singer of leaving little trails on wagons to switch between them, but your last scum list looks to be the same thing! Your whole game has been so...disconnected? I don't know if that is the right word. I mean to say that you seem like scum but the fact that your posts are always spoken with an air of discipline makes them very hard to form ground against you. However, enough of a diluted drink of suspicious activity can be boiled down till it is a thick sauce of scuminess.

VOTE: LlamaFluff

P.S. the first time I voted you Llama was because of the RVS. It wasn't actually serious.

[MirrorIrorriM]

How are you at L-1 Llama? It takes 5 votes to lynch someone and I only count 3 on you.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh crap I didn't realize that.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Uite: Dangit I was just thinking to post the same thing.

Anyways,

@People voting me - Thoughts on singer case?

I'm still not going to claim and ask the people voting me to at least say their opinions on my case before singer shows up and just hammers.

@Llama: Why only the people voting you? It seems odd to only tell US to talk about singer. Who would possibly make us CHANGE our vote. Seems like a way to divert us more then anything.

Although I don't really have anything I want to say on the singer case at the moment, I do want to agree with Llama's suspicion of Tanstalas. I can't find anything for OR against him, making him a complete neutral read. Either he is just town kinda laying low for some reason, it is something to do with his playstyle, or it is scum being very cautious as to what they say. However, I am still voting Llama because he has done stuff that is scummy as apposed to just stuff that is complete neutral.



Oh hey I left this on when I got breakfast and forgot about it, I'll just do that singer analysis thing then.

Singer's play (and by that I mean what she says) is extremely inconsistent considering she disagrees with herself the same posts she writes the info in. She does it enough that I kinda pass it off as town not thinking things through, but then again it could just be scum who just really aren't paying attention. Do I think she is scum? Not really, but that is entirely based on a gut feeling then any real knowledge. She has evidence against her that demands explanation, but my gut just says she is innocent.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Mod: Has Pine responded yet?

[MirrorIrorriM]

As for inactivity I am sorry, I have been watching this french anime-thing called Wakfu...Really frikken addicting. :U

and singer who is avoiding the game but posting elsewhere.

Although Singer already posted I'm going to comment on this anyways.

@ Llama: I remember there being this whole thing with you and finals. Where you "couldn't" post, but still actively did so in another game. Kinda seems hypocritical.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Welcome Concission!

[MirrorIrorriM]

Open question to everyone actually. Who do you think even works as a partner to me? I have to have a partner if I am scum. Think about that before you start blindly calling me scum here. Paying attention to where partners may lie is a great way to get a good read on people.

Didn't you blame me for trying to find scumbuddies without first knowing someone's alignment? This sounds like coaching explicitly for the reason of getting attention off you.

Others from townish to scummy are probably Mirror > Singer> King > Tanstalas.

First off you put me, the person who pushed your predecessor religiously (totally still think pine is scum, your gonna have to fix that if you can ) as your "most innocent player". Seems pretty suspicious to me.

Second you put Singer as second most innocent person on the list. This makes little sense to me because of how sketchy she seems. I only don't find her scummy because I think Llama is scummier and Llama is pushing her close to a lynch. What are your reasons for thinking she is innocent when so many think otherwise?

And lastly you put King near the end of that list, why? He is regarded as being quite towny by pretty much everyone. Or is that simply a "all 4 of these people are super close together suspicion wise, but I'll still put them in order" kinda thing.

[MirrorIrorriM]

This is my most recent though. Even though its about 8 months ago, havent drawn scum in a long time.

So your saying that THIS game your likely to be scum?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Well, I have said what i needed to say at this point. Just waiting for people to either come to their senses or a hammer. Follow what I said to do tomorrow if you do lynch me.

Even if you turn out to be innocent, it doesn't mean your evidence is conclusive just because you were a lynched townie.

[MirrorIrorriM]

please be scum please be scum please be scum please be scum please be scum

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Llama: I don't want it cherry-picked. After I IsO your games, I find you hardly distinguishable as town or scum.
I expressed intent to hammer. So a lynch would be better than a No-Lynch:

Vote:Llamafluff

Wait a second...A lynch would be better then a no lynch? While this is of course true, we had 9 days left to get information. What was the big hurry?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Although I see your point, these statements were made out of genuine concern. The "please be scum" thing is purely because I was actually very worried that he might not be scum which would put us at Lylo. Sadly though I was incorrect in believing Llama scum and we ended up being Lylo anyways.

[MirrorIrorriM]

what does QFT mean?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hey, just going to point out that we now have 2 scum with 3 townies, therefor meaning that if ANY townie votes for another townie it could end the game if the scum are co-ordinated/lucky enough to double vote that person. So please don't go voting all wily-nily.

That sounds like a secret message to your partner in crime to me...If I hadn't thought you were town this whole game I would really pursue that.

[MirrorIrorriM]

It is my first game and I am a doctor. I hate saying that for fear of nightkills but at this point it doesn't matter. Sadly I have been pretty bad at doctoring so far but then again it is hard to predict a role you have never played. :u

Now that it is out I might as well explain my strange actions with more detail. My whole game has been a confusing mush of trying to be forward with my opinions whilst being a bit laid back to avoid attention from mafia. I kinda wish I could have been a VT before this game to get a hand of mafia without having any responsibility beyond my lynch vote but I cant really control that now can I?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh hey forgot about you tanstalas. Your turn to claim.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@ Concission : Didn't see the need.

My first target was KingTwelveSixteen and my second was also KingTwelveSixteen. I was so certain he was going to be night killed but I guess mafia predicted that?

[MirrorIrorriM]

I would think they would avoid picking the most obvious targets for suspicion of that, yes.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Singer : During the DP/Uite phase of day 1 you often would aimlessly switch between them depended on popular opinion at the time. And metaing you turned up some inconsistent attitude between other games and this. In this game you tend to be far less vocal then in others, having a more lurkey attitude then in others. Although this isn't the fence sitting Tanstalas is pulling off, this is the "no info but it is a long post so it looks good" kinda lurking. I didn't find a completed game meta with you scum however. If you would please direct me to one I would be quite pleased.

@Tanstalas : Looking at Llama's earlier statements from the knowledge of his innocence I can understand his point in us looking like scumbuddies. Fact is you have been relatively quiet this game; so much so that I have absolutely no idea of your personality thus sofar. Even metaing you didn't produce much beyond a bunch of stuff about minecraft in the unrelated topics (although I admittedly didn't look exceptionally far). Like I said with singer, if you could actually show me a game where you have been scum or town I would appreciate it greatly.

@Pine/Concission : Although most of my case against you is incredibly based on your predecessor. I will note that your actions seem sketchy in during today as apposed to previous days. Today your attitude seems more free now that the only person who was really accusing you (Uite) is out of the way. You seemed more reserved yesterday as apposed to today which I find suspicious.

@King : Gog this is crazy with you. I have absolutely nothing against you for this whole game. Every wrong action you take is always so easily interpreted as innocent with incorrect presumptions. Either you are exceptional scum or a purebred VT. I still honestly believe you are a VT, however, and see no reason to suspect you otherwise.

OK so there is my hypocritical accusation on everyone (if you can call King's an accusation). Although I believe that doing reads on everyone earlier in game to footprint on them for later wagon justification was scummy, with so few people I see little other options.

So tempted to vote right now, but seeing as we have 16 days or so I will hold back.

FOS : Tanstalas
Your mafia play is more reminiscent as that of a sly perpetrator then an honest townie who doesn't update like others. Me, King, and your play have all followed similar voting patterns; but you are the odd one out. Your justifications are always just strong enough to get by but subtle enough to not have consequences. For the past 2 days your justifications have all been "what Uite said" or "What singer said" or just endless drool about what OTHERS have said without voicing valid reasoning on a personal level. This fence-sitting is unacceptable and I expect an explanation (and also the meta if you will).

[MirrorIrorriM]

When I was talking about your posting inactivity, I was talking about the end of D1 and all of D2. It was a ploy to do damage and then lay low to avoid suspicion.

You "backing up a Llama lynch" was pathetic. It was merely tons of quotes with a comment interjected here and there. Like I said before, you were just giving enough of a case to look like you support the cause without actually having any hard evidence to back it. You got sloppy after the first day when DP died and then decided to take a lurking stance. You pushed the vote here and there and touched sensitive topics to arouse anger.

Your whole coin flip idea better not be serious. We have weeks left to go and a speed lynch at this point would more then likely kill town. To quote you :

Deadline isn't for awhile yet, your "I wanna lynch someone before deadline" is quite suspicious. Luna will be replaced before deadline hits or he will get back here and start posting.

Metaing provided contradicting evidence against you. Whereas your town game you were very outspoken and the first scum game listed you were lurking like you are now, the second scum game has you extremely active at parts which contradicts the first set of evidence. Because your meta offers more of a null read I will remain to go on the attitude and evidence of this game.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Could you point me to which games you're referring to?

I think newbie 1048 was one of them. I didn't really open any specific games, I just looked at most of your posts in general.

3. I legitimately don't understand this part.

I'm saying you could be writing a bunch of senseless stuff that doesn't convey information to seem active when really your lurking. You know if I were to just keep saying the same thing repeatedly or copy someone else's posts but word them differently; it wouldn't convey information, but it WOULD give the appearance of being active.

2 FOSes for Concission and 1 for Tanstalas. Before I get the wrong interpretation, do FOSes count like unofficial votes? Like you WOULD vote this person but something (LyLo in this case) is preventing you?

Don't have time to read your meta because of school n'stuff. Be back later.

[MirrorIrorriM]

therefor meaning that if ANY townie votes for another townie it could end the game if the scum are co-ordinated/lucky enough to double vote that person. So please don't go voting all wily-nily.

TANS YOU IMBECILE! We have 15 days left! No matter how much you think I am scum (which isn't very much because you rolled DICE to decide) we have tons of time to learn the real mafia member! You will surely spell doom for us if you go voting willy nilly like that!

See this is what I was talking about with you voting with little reason! This is so reckless it is insane.

MEGA FOS : Tanstalas

(and if you call this OMGUS, so help me God )

[MirrorIrorriM]

Nope - Gonna leave it. if he is scum he won't get voted

And you are really gonna take those chances? Besides, say YOU are scum and vote me. If your scum buddy votes me then that is two and not a complete lynch. By your logic that would mean I am scum which would get me voted ANYWAYS. That logic is flawed and you know it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

MEGA FOS : Tanstalas

(and if you call this OMGUS, so help me God )

Do you think Tans is town?

Not at this moment I don't.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Hmm, I need to not come on this site when I am drunk >.>

Unvote

The fact that you wern't steamrolled by votes though means that you are probably scum, or I am, or the 2 scum members wern't on at the same time since I put that vote up

You just listed all the options.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Singer:
1> No. The way he phrase it looks fake.

I was so certain he was going to be night killed but I guess mafia predicted that?

It's as if he knows the mafia knows there is the doctor despite the 50-50 chance. Thus, he is mafia.

You have to remember that I have been doctor this whole game, which so happens to be my first game, so I am thinking from an odd perspective. I have never been mafia or finished a game before; so I don't know the mafia's patterns of NKing. When I nightvote I have to protect those who I think will get NKed while thinking about whether mafia is accommodating or not. It is common sense to assume your enemy always has the PRs so you can prepare for the worst. Take the mafia godfather for example, if there is a 50/50 chance he is in game the cop would know to take his night reads with a grain of salt instead of taking it for absolute fact. If the person is acting like obvious scum but their night examination turned up innocent, they would probably still push his lynch instead of arguing against it.

[MirrorIrorriM]

...Why did you not respond to any of the other accusations? Concission has also not responded to my talking of me surviving.

Talking to Tanstalas or Concission?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Sorry for inactivity! Just started college and am a little overburdened with all the additional work.

Anywho,

Again with Me and Tans thing? Us following exact vote patterns was merely coincidence. I know that is REALLY hard to believe in light of recent events, what with my sudden rash turn on tanstalas looking like a cover up to avoid suspicion. In my defense, me, Brent, and DP followed similar voting patterns also, but we all know they were not scum. Also Llama said I could be scum with Uite, which obviously is impossible since he was not scum. My point is that, although me and Tans have followed similar patterns (more so then either of us with anyone else), many other strong possibilities arouse but turned out to be coincidence and this one is merely coincidence also.

To further my case against tanstalas:

His early push against DP seems extremely strong. Although everyone was pretty much against him (we lynched him ) he was the first to really make a big deal about it.

His attitude towards pine/concission is always kind and forgiving. This is most prevalent in his response to minor things like skimming the thread. If pine/concission do it, it is ok/forgivable and was just a newb townie; if anyone ELSE does it he calls it scummy and gets all upset about it. To be fair he does say that it could be newb townie, he just says it from an attitude that he doesn't mean it.

He gives an inconsistent reaction to Singer wanting to lynch early and Brent wanting to lynch early. He goes so far as to vote Singer for over eager voting but is in total agreement when Brent goes crazy and resolves to lynching Uite or DP out of the game "taking too long".

That is all the new information I have to further my case. Everything else has been said already.

Gog I hope I am right in pushing you...So far I have foolishly pushed the lynches of all our experienced players :oops


@ Singer: I'm really interested to see your material on Uite's push against pine

[MirrorIrorriM]

Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

I'm not quite sure what me "needing rope" implies.

Am I out to lunch with thinking King is obv-town at this point?

It is pretty much accepted that he is total town. If he turns out to be scum it will be the biggest OH SNAP moment ever.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

So let me get this straight, assuming you are town, if you make an amazing point that proves someone is scum and proceed to vote for him; if someone follows you because they agree with your opinion they are scum? That sounds like a pretty one sided argument right there.

Besides, the me sheeping you argument is pretty flawed. My voting the first day was pretty varied between targets. The only case where the sheeping argument can be made is for the DP lynch.. For the llama lynch you could say anyone was "sheeping you" because they voted for the same person you did, at least until you realize your vote for llama was the second post of the day.

And lastly, 1 half of the entire sheeping argument is that we would both be scum and I am a newb mafia following my more experience team mate. Are you implying your scum by saying that I should be lynched for sheeping you?

[MirrorIrorriM]

While normally I would get upset that your voting a week from deadline, Concission just doesn't sit right with me. I would like to hear his rebuttal first before voting.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@King: You merely comment on my argument.

So I'd do a favor in return by ignoring it so as not to get stuck in Point Of View WIFOM

.

[sarcasm]Oh how thoughtful of you. Denying all arguments so as not to waste our time? What would we ever do without you?[/sarcasm]

Seriously, respond to King's accusations instead of brushing them off. Refusing to answer questions, no matter how small, is the most scummy thing ever as far as I'm concerned. Heck that is why I lynched DP, even if he WAS innocent, he still didn't do a good job of expressing it.

If you are town, please unvote now

.

Why don't you give him a reason? Your just saying that he should unvote you because he should unvote you.

@Tans: Have you looked at Pine/Mine IsO, do you know what is scummy about it?

I second this request. However concission, Pine was the prime suspect the first day and left alot of questions unanswered when he got replaced. Even though you might not have done anything to warrant the vote, your predecessor did. Although I think tanstalas's vote is too much this early, you sure are responding poorly to it.

Mirror, who is trying to act like he's patient while his words betray his eagerness to get me lynched.

It isn't eagerness to get you lynched, it is eagerness to actually be able to see how you react under pressure. You haven't been put under much pressure this entire game and have been able to do pretty much whatever you feel like.

FoS:Concission

Preview Edit: oh well hello concission. Read my thing about wanting to read your response. Also there is a difference between 15 days and 7. Voting when we have almost the entire game left is why I freaked; along with the whole scare King brought up about coordinated mafia made me flip because I was afraid of being lynched in an instant. This game is going too slow paced for that right now though.

Your thing with

Tans-IMPORTANT

is good, it is nice to see you acknowledge his post.

[MirrorIrorriM]

If you could be lynched at any moment at LYLO without even knowing it, especially when you suspected the person voting you could be town, would you be defensive?

And yet you blame me of being more protective of myself then you

[MirrorIrorriM]

But Mirror's inconsistency is very noteworthy.

TANS YOU IMBECILE! We have 15 days left! No matter how much you think I am scum (which isn't very much because you rolled DICE to decide) we have tons of time to learn the real mafia member!

You will surely spell doom for us if you go voting willy nilly like that!

While normally I would get upset that your voting a week from deadline, Concission just doesn't sit right with me.

I would like to hear his rebuttal first before voting

.

Then being fine with Tans' yet another impulsive vote when it is not on him.
Also

note that the underlined imply he would vote me whether or not my rebuttal is good enough

, else it would have been "before deciding to vote".

Oh hey forgot to respond to this.

That's not what I meant. Why would I ever wish to hear a rebuttal when I have no wish to decide my actions with it? That is reading too far between the lines to grab any sort of evidence your hands can against me. I wanted to hear your reaction to being pushed because no one had seriously pushed you prior. I had no real reads on you except from your predecessor and wanted to get one.

If you could be lynched at any moment at LYLO without even knowing it, especially when you suspected the person voting you could be town, would you be defensive?

And yet you blame me of being more protective of myself then you

@Mirror: I didn't blame you for that. I pointed out your contradictory actions.

Well then enlighten me. What are you pointing out besides the "implies hes gonna vote regardless" thing? I stated that I was less concerned about you then I am myself. You say that is not your accusation yet I see you originally said "Then being fine with Tans' yet another impulsive vote when it is not on him." is your only other argument. So please tell me what I am missing, if you can.

[MirrorIrorriM]

P.S. We now officially have less than one week left.

February 6th is the deadline so it is closer to 5 days actually.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Oh fuck my life. Did anyone even CARE about the ISO analysis?

Very much so. It was extremely helpful and you had good comments. It was very helpful in deciding who is scum for this game. As it stands I will vote Concission unless I get convinced otherwise.

Almost a vote : Concission

[MirrorIrorriM]

WOAH WHAT A SELF VOTE?!

Concission...why would you do that? I know you have this whole world-against-me complex going on here but I actually wanted to hear your argument *facepalms*. Now if we are town we lose when there was a chance you could have proved innocence. I was suspicious of both you AND Tanstalas. Singer gave a ISO wall about you that convinced me that you were more likely scum. All you needed to do was do the same for tans or at least give a reason why you shouldn't be lynched. Seriously, you get an idea of who is scum and just go out guns blazing without a second thought and just ruin it for everyone.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Wheres Llama? I kind of want him to know I wasn't scum this whole time. Also apologize for lynching him >.> You too DP.

Now for some after thoughts.

King was like my ace in the hole for town. I was certain he was town from the beginning and didn't disappoint.

Singer : My gosh that surprised me. I took your mistakes as just not paying attention as town, not scum. Funniest part is I almost protected you on the second night.

Tans never really settled for me, he remained complete neutral to me for the entire game. His posts always followed a similar mindset to mine and so I had a hard time pinning him down.

Concission : I feel like I was unfair towards you. I really felt that pine was scum during the first day and thought you should be lynched purely on that. Pine's play is what was the nail in the coffin. Although I did actually want to hear your defense and was kinda hurt you thought I didn't care.

I think my game was a bit too schizophrenic, tried to follow too many leads without really looking into one. Looking back my game was like that of a bull, easy to fool but wont stop pushing until someone gets lynched. I need to learn from this and 1) listen to defenses from the perspectives of them being both scum and town, 2) maybe not push so hard until I really feel that something is wrong with someone's play.

[MirrorIrorriM]

I'm very surprised tanst didn't get lynched on the last day when he first voted.. THen played it off as "drunk posting".

Actually if you look in his posts in other threads at that time they backed up that story even before he made the excuse. Either it was an incredibly elaborate ploy just for a newbie game, or he is telling the truth. I for one am inclined to believe the second. Unless of course you WERE lying tans, which I kind of would like to know actually.