Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[boberz]

/confirm, to busy to post today though most probably.

[boberz]

I agree the moose stuff isnt great. But I am prepared to give him a it of a chance, I think we should give him the wriggle room to hang himself if he is scum.For now.

Hiraki however,

Hiraki agrees someone looks scummy, moans at somebody elses play then votes for a third person (randomly presumably) with no reason provided. This and some strange stuff about town reads and activity he earns my vote.

vote hiraki

[boberz]

Not really a chainsaw, I though moose was a fair bit scummy, I had nothing to add to it particularly and it seemed to have a bit of support or so.

Meanwhile I also thought it strange that Hiraki mentioned he was scummy, also mentioned someone else then voted for a random. Voting for someone you think is scummy for weak reasons is much better than random votes and it felt really off.

---

And this is scummy, why? Did you honestly believe that I could vote one of the people in my post based off of that information, fully knowing that they would most probably be scum?

I must be misunderstanding this, it sounds to me that you are admitting to being scum and damning atleast one of the other two as scum too. Surely I am reading this wrong?

Did I think it was scummy, yes. Because voting for those people would have been worth more than a vote for a random. Also you avoided creating a wagon with some real pressure in exchange for a random meaningless vote. Atleast when I avoided the wagon (rightly or wrongly) I exchanged it for a real case and a real point.

[boberz]

Because pressure on scummy players to determine their allignment is such a bad thing. /sarcasm

Not really good enough hiraki. A random vote is useless, you cant have an RVS just because you fancy it.

Not only that but despite accepting that a random vote was not appropriate you do not move your vote.

[boberz]

Hiraki, you go from moose being only slightly scummy and pressure being a bad thing. To shamelessly bandwagonning moose in a sentence or two.

Hiraki we never had an RVS, that is why I am scolding you for a random vote.

If you disagree with me (and most other people) over pressure atleast explain why. And the page we are on matters not.

For the record all, moose is always like this, so be careful I am not trying to slow the wagon just making sure people are aware of the meta.

[boberz]

bob isnt even voting for you.

[boberz]

I dont thik I am, I think I said that a couple of your posts were scummy, but I am attacking Hiraki mostly atm.

[boberz]

I am interested in who you think is scum and why moose.

[boberz]

Moose deserves a few more votes people, he clearly is too big for his boots about the ones he has already. I want my pressure to go somewhere so I am letting it run for a bit.

[boberz]

Play better then

[boberz]

No, Why?

Btw I will continue to nag you untill you do something constructive.

[boberz]

If I get you to help town it will have been constructive. I am doing you a favour here moose. Just try and find scum. PLease do it for yourself. Gain an IQ point or two and actually try and find scum. PLeas pleas please please.

Or you will get vigged in every game that has a vig from now until eternity. Do you want to be the fool who always gets lynched or vigged?

Go and find us scum.

[boberz]

Firstly it is not, there is stuff on hiraki on me, and i am sure on others.

Secondly of course you can search our attackers for scumminess.

Come on try

[boberz]

Dude stop with the whole "Look at me being pro-town" routine, it's getting sad now.

Being protown should never get old, but please st try and find some scum please, I am beig very nice by my standards.

[boberz]

They are both good, but go and find scum. Unless you have picked this as your scumhunting. In which case you need to embelish and explain,

[boberz]

Will postproperly soon, but no town reads please. It will just give scum a neat target list.

[boberz]

Hiraki, please dont bold in my quotes, it is impossible to answer them in kind.

But in order:

"really" yes really, so now answer properly.
"Why should I care about your random vote" because you had two slight scum reads at the time, and the game was kicking into gear.
"pressure doesnt work" as I said if you insist on this discussion explain why rather than just asserting your belief on us.
"meta blah blah" so you agree with me on the meta but it is invalid because???

I need to know why voting Mariyta was scummier than voting someone who I talked.

Guys read this and then tell me why we are not wagonning this guy, it is awful. You cannot give two scum reads, however small, then vote randomly. And proffes utter bemusement at being called out on it.

You find me worthy of suspicion due to having Town-Tells?

Lets be clear you didnt we all know that, whether it is scummy or not is a matter of opinion.

Also miyaki stop trying to goad everyone into theory discussion, re pressure, RVS, FOS and no doubt others. It is really anti town.

---

Beefster surely if anything I was overattacking? How can I be overdefensive in attacking someone?
Fail accusation.

---

Moose200x, so far you have mostly been talking about yourself. Try to focus more on scumhunting and less on surviving.

True.

[boberz]

Ok we need some kind of counterwagon/distraction or something. Why did people not like the hiraki case/ why are there two votes on me but I can barely remember why?

[boberz]

I am scum

vote moose

[boberz]

@Moose are you actually going to add something other than steaming piles of BS to this game?

Why are you giving me such attention when boberz is doing the same stuff?

No he isnt, I am outward looking you are inward looking.

My approach is different (in early day 1 stage) but I can justify and reason it. You have not despite us giving you time and chance to do it. Therefore my style is different from yours.

But you have to see that claiming scum, sarcastically or not deserves punishment. Surely.

---

I have my last submission tomorrow, so I should post tomorrow.

Then VLA over the weekend. Sorry all.

[boberz]

I have played with moose in past games. I can not allow scum claims.

[boberz]

Who said it would be a mislynch? I am not a policy lyncher.

[boberz]

Beefster surely if anything I was overattacking? How can I be overdefensive in attacking someone?
Fail accusation.

Fail defense. You make a decent point, yet you kinda missed my point and ended up digging yourself into a hole.

How so? is overattacking a scumtell for me now. In fact you have seen my meta so you know it is not.

Anyhting else to add beefster, your points have been a little shallow so far. (It neednt have to be about me I just mean in general.)

[boberz]

please

[boberz]

I was called on a contradiction, there was no contradiction I never said the bit in bold, that was hiraki adding stuff into my quote in bold. Why he did this I dont know.

I dot have time to dealwith the larger posts yet 1000 words to go.

[boberz]

Not really a valid argument. (not to mention it was a newbie game, and stuff could've changed since then)

Is a valid argument anyway. And if you remember correctly I wasnt a newbie in that game. But I am not trying to make a massive meta defence, just accusation is utter bollocks defece.

Also, I felt that moose was fairly clearly being sarcastic when he made the "I am scum" comment.

He was, but why would town (however idiotic) ever make that joke. especially when he is feeling so victimised and such already. That was rather my point. (I know you werent talking to me but I am replying anyway.

---

@Beefster, why is information "nervewracking"? Seems a strange word to pick.

No town reads for more reasons than the shopping list that is just one. We are looking for scum not town. We influence other people's town reads undermining town working together by majority rather than power. And the shopping list is relevant because PRs will not want to look too town which is a stupid situation town should not be creating. (any more on this take it to MD. But do not post town reads here)

You have something to lose, don't you?

I genuinely dont understand this. I have the game to lose, but so does everyone of every allignment. I am confused. The way I reacted to votes was a dismissive but angry. As always. The thicker the accusation the more I kick off. Hence my fuse getting ever shorter with your senselessness.

---

Substrike, why are you calling for moose to be lynched now when you werent earlier. I am fairly certain you have said it but I missed it.

---

You were overdefensive in claiming that you were overattacking rather than overdefending.

Is anyone buying this bollocks. How can he have accused me of being over defensive to an attack he made when he attacked me for overdefensiveness before I (alledgedly) overdefended myself to his attack? (I should be on Yes Minister)

On a serious note the site needs to lose this 'over-defensiveness' stuff. There is no such thing.

[boberz]

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

Nobody can hide, and if you think I tunnelled you are so mistaken. Have you actually read the thread?

In other news... why are you still talking about yourself?

[boberz]

Hiraki's still scum, too tired to explain.

where did I do this bolding stuff inside boberz' quote ocmpletely confusing people so they wrongly think boberz is contradicting himself..

Your iso post 3 and 4.

You are also clearly no reading as I said this earlier

Hiraki, please dont bold in my quotes, it is impossible to answer them in kind.

---

boberz seems to be trying to look pro-town instead of being protown.

Work with this for a sec. Explain why trying to look protown is scummy.

The fact you dont understand how trying to look protown is necessary for protown players explains why you always get wagonned.

[boberz]

Boberz, I have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

reread it, it say what it was meant to say I missed one close bracket admittedly, and forgot to accredit the final quote to moose but apart from that the stuff at you is still at you.

Ie you caused massive confusion by bolding your own words in my posts. I asked you not to do it. You then claim no knowledge of having done it, and apparently have no knowledge of my response to it. So I concluded that you had not been reading.

[boberz]

I can completely believe you do normally bold inside quotes, but I am suggesting you should never do it. Because it causes confusion such like it did in this game, even after you had stopped doing it. But tbh I dont really care any more, it is not in any way scummy. I am nearly done my essay then I can go to bed. I cant wait.

[boberz]

After I looked at his past games, I don't think he is scum.

This is reffering to moose. Why is this so, surely at most you know he is capable of doing this as town. Have you seen him failing to do similar things as scum?
(Who else has played with moose? I have.)

For the record, I am neither convinced Hiraki's answers regarding the random vote he made after giving suspicions are suitable, nor do I believe he believes them either.

Considering there was no question, and it was a bland statement on my play, that is quite the misrepresentation...

Mistake rather than misrep. However you did rather avoid the point. You failed to adequately respond to my attack.

But that's not the point.

But it is and was from the very moment several picked up on it.

It is invalid because clearing someone of being town by meta is horrible.

I did no such thing. I didnt even stop attacking him.

is absolutely nothing about FoS in this thread that I have said.

FoS' are worthless in any case

THis was the theory element of what you said. Hiraki made more than one reference to FOSs in iso post 4.

You're the one who disputed my random vote to be scummy.

Exactly, that is not theory. Going into when RVS should end in a broad way as you did is not game relevant.

It doesn't really work that well.

The thread has proved that to be absolute crap. It is evident that both of you have felt pressured, admittedly you dealt with it infinitely better than moose.

I doubt that was Bob's reaction though.

I found it hilarious. You cant afford to get annoyed with people so if you feel they are losing control, acting off emotion or trolling then you know you are winning the argument.

Moose would need to call it a mislynch if he knew he was town, no?

Not really he could call it a lynch without adding mislynch to it. Considering how loose moose has been with claiming scum elsewhere I see little reason why he should feel the need to be allignment specific here. It just felt awkward I think.

Post #22 (Hiraki): What??? If you believe in that why would you vote for some random person instead? Why would you vote in all when in our last game you were so adamant against doing so early on?

I love how this was the first thing you picked up upon.

boberz is overreacting

Just found this thanks to lateralus. lol

If you think moose should have more votes why aren't you voting him?

As I said in the post I genuinely thought the place my vote was at was the right place for me to be applying pressure as well. I felt the moose wagon was getting credit (rigthly so) only later did I join it myself.

Who does {LordChronos; Mariyta; LordChronos; Dekes} think is scum and why. Seriously… who the hell are you guys.

I agree, I like your entry later.

Hiraki feels weird but gonna hold off for now

Why? What was it about the hiraki case that didnt take off, I have been pushing it hard but nobody seemed to like the look of it. The lack of wagon here makes me even moire suspicious of hiraki.

Boberz, can you explain why we would need a 'distraction'? What's wrong with discussing Moose200x's behaviour?

Nothing wrong, but it is becomming the sole focus. we need more than one line of enquiry at a time. This will allow us to involve more people and havea more broad undertanding of people's positions on a variety of people. I am more talking to people not actively pushing moose atm.

Boberz, can you explain why we would need a 'distraction'? What's wrong with discussing Moose200x's behaviour?

I dont really accept the idea of 'tells' in the traditional sense but this in context I saw as very scummy. I saw no town motivation and it felt out of place and wrong.

for his response to boberz answer to Beefster's vote.

What was scummy about it, I dont like people who adopt popular views without justifying them. IGMEOY

People can manipulate their playstyles knowing their meta will be looked at.

I am not an avid user of meta. But this is a fallacy; the whole point of meta is that it helps you find what they do unconciously. A player breaking meta is affecting all his other games both now and in future, they are unlikely to do this for the sake of confusing you on one issue in one game. How many times have you done something in one game purely to shape your meta, not many is my bet.

I'm working on getting focus. I'm in theme and bastard games right now, so I'm trying to get back into the serious mafia mood. It's also a bit nervewracking when 2+ pages appear overnight- as an argument between 3 players. (Although I've seen much worse...)

What is the point in this statement? I asked you for something to add, not a sob story about some bastard mod.

So substrike- Just to clarify right now. Do you think I am scum or do you think I am just anti-town?

Your talking about yourself again moose! Naughty boy.

Boberz- I am not mad your tunneling me becuase i feel like a victim. I am mad because you are allowing scum to bandwagon and hide on an easy mislynch. Scum will just say "lol he acted scummy lol" and that's that. You are letting scum off easy by tunneling me.

I am not tunnelling you, that is abundantly clear to everybody. And you are still talking about yourself. Are you that selfobsessed.

First off, I explained it quite clearly in the post. Call it it an FoS if you want. I was not ready to vote either of the two suspects, therefore, I voted randomly.

We hear you, we just think it is scummy and bollocks. Because it implies random votes are better than reasoned votes. It implies random wagons have more value than real wagons. It implies you are scared to be held to account for your views. We understand your point we just think it is bollocks.

First off, I explained it quite clearly in the post. Call it it an FoS if you want. I was not ready to vote either of the two suspects, therefore, I voted randomly.

At this point you expose severe newbishness. Atleast we know your town reads were crap and sharing them is fine by me.

2. I'm calling for his lynch now, because before I just wanted pressure. Now he's in lynch territory. In terms of what turned me, I wasn't 100% sure with that first /confirm post. He's assumed an extremely poor position since then and it's time to get some rope.

This feels weak. Explain what has changed between calling for him to be wagonned and calling for him to be lynched.

---

I am beginning to sense this moose stuff is all a bit too easy.

unvote

vote hiraki

I am not happy that the wagon picked up nobody without many real dissentors. Too few people were delaying a decision on it and stuff. (watch them delay again or suddenly get town reads now scared I caught connections)

[boberz]

Hmm, for some reason I am not convinced. Call it gut if you want, but it is different to that.

[boberz]

Beefster it is not a chaisaw defence because I had already made the same defence myself. People are allowed to attack you if you are chatting bollocks.

Anyway even the guy who created the chainsaw defence concedes it cannot be used untill you know one of the alignments.

[boberz]

When did I say you were scummy? even if I did am I not allowed to suspect two people?

[boberz]

Ant is getting worse by thesecond. moose at l1, no thanks.

[boberz]

Wait! Just quickly checking in right now, but Beefster, are you saying Boberz was overdefensive due to his chainsaw defense on Moose's wagon?

Actually it was in regards to his vote on Hiraki on the first page. To be honest, I haven't really read pages 2 and 3.

What? Not the post directly above the one that yo wrote?. Beefster, you fail.

[boberz]

Moose you are so self obsessed. There are pagea of information not regarding you.

Nobody has tunnelled you.

Never have you pointed at anyones intention, coaching leading and such.

In this game you have not been that near getting lynched.

So grow up and talk about somebody else.

[boberz]

Boberz totally overreacted to Hiraki's initial post. "It sounds to me that you are admitting to being scum and damning at least one of the other two as scum too" from #29 is a massive stretch and one of the scummiest comments I've seen so far. However, the entire boberz/Hiraki argument is meh. I don't really see either as very scummy and the volleying wall posts are irritating.

Misrep! I asked him what he meant for clarification saying that how it read to me couldnt be right!! I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Learn to love wall posts. But one of mine was a catchup post.

Also Hiraki is scum. When/if I am dead remember this please.

Also

[boberz]

Will you learn to not represent people's opinions?

[boberz]

Will you learn to not represent people's opinions?

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

This was meant to say misrepresent. Something I accused you of earlier.

[boberz]

I dont like the substrike wagon.

[boberz]

Well you may as well claim properly then moose.

[boberz]

Cant be bothered to respond it is all old. Needless tosay Hiraki is scum, but I will let others decide based on our conversations no need for more.

But hiraki we seriously need to go into MD soetime.

[boberz]

I dont even know what is going on in this game anymore. Moose could be anything as far as I am concerned, but he has probably earnt a blacklisting from me.

Hiraki is scum.

Mariyata has been wrong lots.

I keep getting the ants confused.

[boberz]

Impossible. Nobody Special is not a dick.

[boberz]

All the stuff you said about hiraki was scummy.

Something is off with the beefster wagon, cant fathom itreally. I need to reread the game already.

[boberz]

I dont like linking cases day 1. Because simply put, they dont work.

I am now rereading.

[boberz]

Can I ask you to sum up your main bif of case (contradictions particularly) with a couple of quotes and such like please.

I am not a massive fan of PBPAs without exlanation afterwards.

But I like your entry. Of course you are scum unfortuanately. (I am going to post tonight or tomorrow morning, my time)

[boberz]

Generally people should not be judged by their predecessors actions.

Bollocks. If your predecessor was scum so are you. Dont weasel out of it.

[boberz]

Hiraki's beginning of day1 stuff is absolutely ludicrous. And I would turn to mariyta next for that original madness.
Calling this partnership even more when for no reason maryita turns on me.

Hiraki was also a clear newb incase anyone did not notice this I should point out.

Hiraki didnt believe his own theories. (If he did, I am not playing mafia with him again, but he didnt)
He was also goading theory discussion, but I have now moved this to more of a null tell.

---

Beefster has still not adequately answered why he felt information was nervewracking?

---

Moose is a selfish self centred self serving bugger, who I shall never play with again and imo should be replaced. Let's not lynch him today.

---

AntB "perform a scumhunt". Scumpoints. Major ones.

---

Maryita pops in now and again talks about some very old stuff then goes away again. Not happy at all.
And the misrep (as yet unanswered) of course.

[boberz]

In conclusion. Town this game have been utter crap.

It is obvious from how the wagons sped up that moose is not scum. Too many people wanted him off for policy or near policy reasons. I still think a vig should hit him if only to teach him a lesson.

Hiraki is obv scum. He was one of only two valid wagons at one point and nobody joined the wagon. Obv scum. Whether or not you liked the case, it really is obvious.

Maryta is probably hiraki's partner. He is also a terribad player. Need to see a hiraki flip first.

Beefster could be third, if not AntB.

unvote vote hiraki's replacement

Guys you really need to run with this.

[boberz]

Just trying to make it through the day bro.

Well dont, replace out. now.

[boberz]

Moose, replace out.

Dekes, dont let him annoy you, moose will die in this game at some point. Werewolf might not we need to get rid of werewolf today.

[boberz]

The case was one of only two competing ones for a sizeable amount of time. If town were not moving in atleast one scum would have. If all scum were on Moose then it means the whole of town was paralysed and somehow prepared to keep random votes on.
Loads of people sat on the fence on hiraki. People refused to show reads on him. Nobody defended him (other than miyrita which I have already gone into) nobody offered anything.

Aside all the scummy stuff he has done the fact this wagon had nothing, when several people found various things bad is in itself bad.

---

If moose is a townalligned killing role and he kills me because of some kind of vendetta (even though I am actively pushing against his lynch) then he is playing against wincon and will be punished by the mod I imagine.

[boberz]

Somehow Mariyta thinks I have tunnelvision when I just made a post criticising atleast four people. Did I call you a guy again, apologies if so. My point is that when you do pop in you comment on old things, if you have limited access then atleast be useful when you do turn up.

It came across as a veiled accusation.

Well there was a question mark, and when it wasnt answered I didnt follow through. IN fact it took three seperate questions from atleast two different people before an answer was found. So you are wrong.

Moos is just a fool and should replace out.

[boberz]

Make a case on me moose, if you think I am scum.

[boberz]

Moose, have respect for us as well in that case.

[boberz]

no.

[boberz]

We cannot confirm moose's vigness.

He could be third party.
He could be scum and kill that person (me).
Scum could kill that person/nokill to do that.
He could be just a townie chatting crap forcing us to nolynch.

We should take advantage of our numbers towards the end of the game when we can take advantage of that with more information.

---

Do not leave moose alive for this reason, we are lynching today. I think werewolf, but if not it should be moose.

Wake up and use your heads. If nolynching day 1 was the thing to do with even numbers then the whole site would be doing it, they are not.

If we do this I replace out.

[boberz]

AS long as we are lynching werewolf today I will go with it, but moose has to realise that whatever faction he is he has failed it now.

[boberz]

This moose alive to test him idea, wont work. He could be an anti town killing role, he could be a pro town killing role who breaks his promises (i have seen this before), he could be anything testing him will get us nowhere. I will prbably now move to a mosse lynch rather than a beefy lynch, just no quite getting the beefy stuff.

[boberz]

Hello, town wake up. It wont work, even if the right person dies we cant prove whether moose is town or not, but we wake up tomorrow with some dead people. Whats the point other than meaning we cant evaluate as much from today.

Just everyone wagon werewolf now please. That is all you need to do. Let's not set moose a little task. If there is a vig out there hit him. If he is a vig he should hit the most scummy player (probs beef but mariyta if werewolf is scum). Fine done, whateer happens moose is considered as the lynch the next day.

---

Move on.

[boberz]

He suggests that we lynch Moose first because there is no way of finding out.

No I didnt I said we shouldnt try and do some strange proof/test thing on moose (I maintain this) but I do think we should leave him alive because moose will die.

Werewolf there is clear OMGUS in your suspicion of me. People sheeping me does not make me scum.
Tbh the people sheeping are not doing it scummily.
In fact is sheeping scummy? probably not.

I have in no way called beefster town. I dont understand the wagon, we learn a lot not lynching him today.

[boberz]

If moose kills me he is both stupid and selfish and playing against wincon. I am not particularly scummy (I dont think) nobody has said so. If that is what he chooses to do he is wrong. But it doesnt decrease our number of mislynches allowed so I would rather lynch someone I am more sure is scum.

[boberz]

News for everyone moose cannot be confirmed at anypoint tonight (or on almost any night.)

[boberz]

you could still be third party, we would not definately know you were doing the shooting, and we cant let you through to lylo anyway.

[boberz]

Bollocks, you are not a usefull assett at any time. If you got it right you were either lucky or it was obvious, it cannot have been on your own merit.

You are a survivalist, which means you break one of the rules that every mod has, someone needs to grow the bollocks to take you on.

In fact. Policy.

unvote vote moose

[boberz]

I am not nrmally a policy lyncher. I have never been on a policy lynch. But the werewolf wagon doesnt look like it is happening, so it is him or you. I prefer him, if only because I get on with you in a strange way.

[boberz]

Mariyta, my it's moose or beefster clearly meant that they were the only two that town seemed able to lynch not that I thought they were the most suspicious.

Yoiu need to put more content into this game.

[boberz]

Over christmas it is not.

Look at the maykup of the beefster wagon, doesnt look good to me people. Mariyta and werewolf on the back end of it. Mm

[boberz]

Pretty much. I dunno about beefster yet in truth. Not a null read just an I dont know read (they are different I think). Beefster in the game is more valuable than you in the game.

[boberz]

I disagree they are much better than random lynches, they get rid of an antitown player for a start. But lets take htis to MD sometime.

As I say beefster it appears to be you or moose. WHo? Or if it someone else you better start your lobbying now

[boberz]

Hang on, you random voted!!!!!

In fact I dont care. Is the werewolf wagon back on people???

[boberz]

unvote vote werewolf

then. Let's do it.

[boberz]

Beefster, AntB is definately not happening today so move your vote somewhere more useful. Same to lateralus and pappums. Especially our random voting friend.

[boberz]

Beefster we have 6 days. With a weekend and two bank holidays, not to mention general festivities. We look for some kind of lynch now.

Beefster swinging this onto me of all of a sudden is scummy btw everyone.

[boberz]

Maritya this is not a quick lynch. And I will swap the wagon where I like when I like to try and find the bestcompromise lynch. Beefster, AndB nor me is getting lynched today so leave it for tomorrow.

I do not think AntB is the townies person alive but we cant just do this to a random. We need to work towards a lynch now.

[boberz]

Compromise lynches are the best ones on day1. And always invariably happen in nonnewbie games at this point day1 with 2 competing wagons. I am trying to create a wagon to compete, prefferably werewolf.

My werewolf case is all over the thread I have spent pages attacking him, do a reread.

I think we should lynch before deadline and I am making sure we can set this up, we still dont have 7 theoretically convincable to any one wagon.

---

By 'a random' I was talking about someone not of the top three suspects. Your useless on AntB (or indeed me) it just aint gonna happen, you are just wasting our and your time.

[boberz]

Beefster, werewolf = hiraki = scum, that is my case in its entirity.

[boberz]

Beefster, my case on Hiraki has been extensive, and it has not been a fail case. If you are too lazy to read my posts then that is your bad.


Hirkai:
Dodgy dodgy opening vote.
Misrep of me, (over meta for example)
Dragging the game into theory even after being called out on it

and now

Moose would need to call it a mislynch if he knew he was town, no?

Also, just found this. I think it is as near to a slip as we have had.

---

For the record I am deliberately avoiding your accusations I dont bloody care if you think I am scum.

[boberz]

AntB you have clearly ignored my posts explaining why it wouldnt work. Either read them or just believe me. As I said if this were the right thing to do it would happen in every game.

---

Beefy there is no such thing as a scumtell in the way you mean it.

Voting randomly when you have two suspects is scummy.
Dragging game into theory is scummy when done deliberately (part of the reason I got lynched in our game together if you remember)
Misrepping is a greyarea scummywise, I am happy for you to not accept it. Obviously it is antitown though.

Yday you promised to vote him today if I remember correctly, will you?

[boberz]

Not at the beginning of the day it isn't.

No it is. It really reallyy is. If people have suspicions but are unwilling to vote or nail their most scummy down. Create wagons etc etc early game it really is scummy. It just is, there are no arguments there at all.

[boberz]

Beefster, take a step back. If I turned round now and randomly voted for myself. You would think it scummy I hope. If I put the phrase 'lol' afterwards it does not excuse it. Same for this. It is not excusable, he had two suspicions and apparently some town reads (which I still think was bollocks he made up when tested).

That merely begun the wagon that I believe made hiraki fall apart, I cannot find anything specifically but I believe the whole back and forth between he and I was not townies bickering.

[boberz]

I dont agree with mosse modkill. And mod has made it perfvectly clear he will not. I still think if he deliberately acts against wincon it should be modkill (or replace, depending on situation) but I do not believe he has yet.

Let's kill werewolf. Deadline is fairly soon now.

[boberz]

I do not see an error with what I posted.

And about the 15th he has claimed dickhead.

Im kind of in that dont know dont care period of the game (with respect to moose)

[boberz]

Mariyta I dont remember saying that I didnt think the beefster wagon would be one for today. It definately is, if I said otherwise I was wrong, it is just not the one I prefer.

I am happy to compromise, I have amde it clear which compromise candidates I am happy with. Beefster is my third or fourth option. If a werewolf wagon can happen I want it to.

[boberz]

I have made my reasons for choosing werewolf abundantly clear, ofcourse to achieve a lynch I would switch.

[boberz]

Yourself.

[boberz]

Actually if you are oneshot, you should probably hold that shot tonight. We still have quite a few suspects. The shot is much more useful for town the next night. But you proably want to shoot someone for your own thrills.

[boberz]

Werewolf you have to realise we are lynching today. We have to.

[boberz]

We need to hear from the non-doers now.

@mod

if the nondoers do not post can we get an extension please we do not have enough people for a lynch (without a selfvote) at the moment?

[boberz]

unvote vote beefster

No point delaying, sub broke the deadlock.

We are not giving moose a free ride here. I just felt that if I died at some point nobody would ever go for werewolf, hopefully now they will he is scum.

[boberz]

Lol beefster and moose going ape after the hammer. Beefster, blame substrike not me, he broke the deadlock that is what was always going to make that decision. Town has been a tad fail, but if other people had contirbuted then it wouldnt have been a clique of a few us actually trying to get anyone bloody lynched.

---

Also moose it may actually be wise to hold your shot, there are still a few different candidates so it will be more valuable in a future night, plus your odds will have probably increased by then.

[boberz]

vote beefster

[boberz]

My vote was clearly not serious mariyta

---

Dont mod wifom with the SK v vig stuff.

Also if Moose was oneshot, he cant shoot anymore. I dont recommend a quicklynch.

---

My theory moose is a dick. Who shot brokenscraps as either a SK or a Vig or a Scum vig. So I am still confused and couldnt care less. I was wrong on werewolf, which probably means mariyta is probs town (or atleast not scummy).

That leaves us virtually no suspects from yesterday. The moose wagon clearly does not need my help.

---

Mariyta, pick somebody other than moose to wagon and Ill go with you. Who?

[boberz]

Fair enough,

unvote (If I had to) vote AntB

I vaugely think I found him slightly scummy during my initial read as well, I too wil reread.

[boberz]

He is scum with pappumsrat. That is my case.

(It isnt I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve (no longer))

[boberz]

Someone got a bit tipsy on New Year's Eve, eh?

Apparently so, essentially it meant I will get round to it at a time other than that for obvious reasons. (substitute you for year and it actually makes sense).

I didnt mean scum vig, I meant scum killing role generally (when speculationg about moose) didnt mean to start this.

---

Fancy voting for him mariyta, we need to be a bit more focussed today, and I am worried moose will dominate discussion again.

[boberz]

AntB, at one point "performed a scumhunt" and also asked moose to. It makes it sound like he wants to look like he is scumhunting rather than actually doing it.

Perform is not a word anyone else would or has used.

[boberz]

Why mariyta sbstrike?

[boberz]

AntB concisely what is the case against me. If there isnt one get off the wagon, the OMGUS just stinks at the moment.

Dekes post looks good actually, but we really need engagement. It feels like a catch up post which is cool, but prolonged engagement is better.

Later and other Ant need to post swiftly please.

[boberz]

Tbh my buddying was blatant. I asked him who he wanted me to vote for so I cannot fault you in that.

Over-aggressive meaning what??? I tried to get them lynched. WHat does over aggressive mean. would you rather I vote them and take no place in the wagon.

Unable to keep track of my vote? It was clearly a joke. THe bloke was dead, and town which suprised me so I voted him (as a joke) still. But humour me, even if this is true why would it be scummy.

And I have provided reasoning behind voting for you.

[boberz]

AntB this is ludicrous. What could it have been other than a joke, the bloke was dead. Furthermore. I acutally included an 'if I have to' with the unvote demonstrating I was more than aware of its futility.

I didnt tunnell anyone, I had cases on moose and beefster at various points yesterday. Focussed is different from tunnelled.

---

Ant to the max, you need to do much better than that.

[boberz]

Told you so.

[boberz]

Undecided on substrike, but we cant afford to get rid of him today, he is too normal.

I will move onto rat at some time I reckon but I am quite enjoying watching AntB fall aart at the moment.

[boberz]

I am bored. AntB fails. The point I have against him is actually fairly strong, it is certainly objective rather than subjective which is rare. SO the idea that my case never arrived is bollocks.

Kind of feeling this is the best way to go here at the moment, could be convinced otherwise if people try hard.

But remember that AntB "performs" his scumhunts. Remember that.

[boberz]

Haha,I am not your pawn I do not have to respond to every thing you say to me. And tbh I have currently got the strongest point currently in play.

And wheneve people try and work together someone always cries that it is scummy, it merely proves that that person is crap.

[boberz]

I have done, the fact that AntB 'performs' scumhunts is a massive find.

[boberz]

I dont get the rat case, can somebody explain please.

[boberz]

@Attm: By 'performing' a scumhunt AntB exposes something that to him scumhunting is some kind of process or an act. To those of us who are town scumhunting is all we are doing, that is the game, it is not a process we go through. If you are town there is no way you would have used the word 'perform' it just is not what you are doing.

[boberz]

I am not prepared to look at substrike today.

[boberz]

Guys I dont think you realise how big my point is. Foreigner or not you would not say anything in that manner. Talking about moose or yourself or anyone else, you wouldnt say it in that manner.

I worry for a town that cannot realise that I have a large point that atleast needs answering for.

@everyone who still thinks I have some hidden knowledge of some description, I have not.

Bloody fools the lot of you.

[boberz]

No dodging at all I told I have nothing in the sentence above what you wrote.

Look at the time and date of my original statment, look at other comments at a similar time and date look at the consequential conversation between myself and maritya then vote AntB.

[boberz]

Papams what have I not answered?

[boberz]

The first quote was not serious, I said so in that very post. However you are somewhere on my suspicion list. But too periferolly (sp?) for any kind of case so I shan't try and fabricate one. But this intense OMGUS against a suspicion that was clearly not very strong wouldnow be a part of that.

THank you for presenting this in a way I could understand for the first time.

[boberz]

Perhaps you are the one who needs to read as the issue has been addressed already.

He is scum with pappumsrat. That is my case.

(

It isnt

I will show it to year at a time when it is not new years eve (no longer))

[boberz]

Well AntB you were not reading in context, but from your survivalistic point of view.

I was asked what my case was on AntB, so when I said "it isn't" I am obviousl saying that this is not my case

[boberz]

Seen it (deadline bandwagonning) done before

Better check you can actually do this, so when?

unvote vote pappums rat

For him to be so sure I am scum and not know where my vote is is horrible.

The complete misrepresenting of events (such as the idea I was "riding wagons" it is clear I was driving atleast one wagon and actually added onto the other wagons aswell)

A kind of weird self obsession whilst still trying to appear outward looking.

Somehow calling out a scumteam when none of partners found (I have seen many more town than scum do this).

Also for drawing such clear boundaries between him and his agressors, indicating a 'them and us' rather than an inquisitive motive.

[boberz]

sorry typo, seen many more scum than town*

Well done for ignoring the other three of four points as well.

[boberz]

Hmm, the doc didnt protect me because he thought I was getting killed. Bollocks.

[boberz]

My behaviour change was because my attack on him was exclusively based on werewolf scum (something I explained in day1) werewolf town makes mariyta fairly town, and considering I agree with him on some stuff (AntB for example, I thought I would try and work with him) considering my day1 this meant I had to earn his trust hence why I sheeped him. It is not brainsurgery.

[boberz]

AntB and rat. when I am attacking you I am not trying to convince you, I ma trying to convince everyone else, so I am not going to jump through your hoops. If you took the same approach to scumhunting you would do better, you are not going to convince me that I am scum are you.

[boberz]

..."forced" by the deadline. Makes you look so innocent and not guilty of joining the wagon. Just what scum want. Seen it done before.
As for the other point, it is called a scum slip. And do I need to have a case on bob? If Substrike flips scum, I'll have some reasons there.

You said this, I am calling your bluff, when have you seen it before? I was just checking you werent spouting crap.

Meanwhile, you are not going to lynch me for 'information' if you lynch anyone you will get information, but we lynch the scummies I have not done anything remotely scummy that I can see.

[boberz]

Haha, in that case you would get info from any flip, not just mine.

unvote

This is just too ludicrous to be made up.

[boberz]

Watcher is an esay claim I can go with this.

unvote vote substrike

[boberz]

Really?

[boberz]

Moose, yes we agree.

[boberz]

If this is some hilarious mosse+mariyta gambit then I will praise Mariyta as best player ever.

Furthermore AntB is clearly flailing.

Infact I will go further he should claim now!

vote AntB

[boberz]

Boberz, can I get a towniest to scummiest list of the remaining players from you?

No. You can have my top suspicion is AntB followed by Ant to the Max.

I still expect an AntB claim.

[boberz]

Something unsettling in this. I am worried this lynch is becomming too easy. I s AntB really that scummy.

So I want an independent thought form everyone as to why they think he is scummy (or not).

Also I will be rereading substrike, and maybe a dead townie or two.

[boberz]

For the thick people out there who cannot read. I am still voting AntB I am still wanting to lynch him. I want that reasoning for everybody to stop the shameless sheeping or information gathering. No need for massclaim that I can see.

THe case against me as it stands:
I call town 'town'.
I type with authority and conviction.
I hammered my 'scumbuddy' with no reasoning (lol at this one)
AntB and I attack each other (as scumbuddy's) all of day2. (lol at this one too)

I genuinely think that is ther worst case I have ever seen. None of it is scummy, and nobody has tried to explain why it is scummy.
Not to mention the OMGUS element of this from ATTM

[boberz]

No, it is an analysis of the other people on the wagon Dekes. You better take those scumtinted glasses off before you ruin the game here.

Dekes you are so wrong it is unbelievable. What about my interactions were scummy. Note this is not asking what was odd or out of place, it is scummy. And why are they scummy.

[boberz]

People asked my views on substrike? If they did (which I cant remember) I would have told them I didnt care, because I didnt. I could read their cases if they convinced me (which they didnt) then I would move onto him.

I dropped the hammer because I was convinced by one of the last posts attacking him (cant remember which) and his claim was easy and we already had a tracker, whilst he turned out to be a mafia watcher I stand by my hammer.

I do not have to give you warning of a hammer.

[boberz]

Dpnt you dare self hammer!!

[boberz]

You dont do it full stop.

[boberz]

Hangon, a threat to selfhammer causes an unvote of the guy. Come one mariyta

[boberz]

Your threats of it make any information from today (especially if nobody else joins your wagon) completewly worthless. If you are town it is senseless to do anyway. We have no reason to have a whole day here.

[boberz]

Do not selfhammer. I do play chess.

[boberz]

The amount of people not voting is unacceptable also

[boberz]

I do not analyse everyone in game. I will not start today at the will of some randoms.

I will add content, probably tomorrow as I have been in hospital and just woken up at home.

I did act against AntB I didnt unvote, because AntB quickhammering should have proved his scummines. I was not against a quick selfhammer, I am against a quick town selfhammer.

[boberz]

Attm I hope ou realise how crap that alst comment is.

This is so awful play, nobody has yet articulated a case on me. When the game ends I expect ou all to realise how thick you have been.

[boberz]

Setting up suggested lnches for potential lylo is a shocking idea.

The idea that the AntB lnch would have been a quick one was a stupid thing to say.

And tbh if that was the argument against me why have you been the first one to articulate it like that. Everyone else has just been feedign off each other with imagined scumminess rather like they have been doing with antb earlier today.

[boberz]

The "randoms" you call are the people who are playing this game with you and who'd like you to share your opinion on other players to get a better read on you. Any refusal of sharing your reads and opinions is scummy. Period.

Firstly bollocks.
Secondly why didnt you say this when I was asked this earlier, and refused?
Thirdly who taught you mafia, they are crap (unless you just ignored them which is more probable)

The last sentence is bogus. If AntB self-hammers, we'll know his alignment soon enough and that doesn't prove his scumminess or non-scumminess in the slightest. The only reason for keeping the day alive was to keep gathering information and the fact that you left the risk of self-hammering alive by not unvoting is that you were just pretending to be interested in keeping the day alive. Scummy.

I was at no point trying to stall the day, it is all you other buggers who are donig that. I just wanted a quick explanation from all the AntB voters as to why they were on him. They gradually unvoted him, which was telling I think.

On a sidenote

To keep bringing this up is antitown also. It is always going to bias mari one way or th

[boberz]

Ok you lying bugger.

"With the way things are now, we need to lynch correctly today" - We are not in lylo
"so analyzing all the options (which you apparently refuse to do) is essential" - When did I say that?
"but you've also been combative and unhelpful all game" - combative,yes unhelpful no.
It was the first coherent case. quote me other people's cases. People were just feeding off each other, saying things like 'boberz is getting worse' and 'i favour a boberz lynch' nobody is scrutinising the bloody wagons. Town are honestly crap in this game.

After boberz comments today, and his apparent refusal to participate in lynching anyone but AntB

WHen did I say or indicate this. Another lie. the only other person under suspicion is me, I am not going to suspect me am I (unless I become another selfhammering dickhead)

Tbh I no longer care but you are all buggered cos your all crap. And impossible to work with.

It is probs attm and antb. for reasons outlined.

[boberz]

I am not taing my toys anywhere an I do not refuse to anlyse anyone but AntB, it is interesting how you did not take my challenge to find where I said that. I think you will find I refused to analyse everyone publically, which is the protown position to take.

[boberz]

On

everyone

!! Read me.

It shouldnt be a hard time. The AntB wagon was raring not long ago and nobody had great reasons for leaving. I have asked people for the reasons they were on it, reasons they left it, or indeed reasons they were never on it.

We are the only viable wagons.

[boberz]

No need for the replacement, they are as near to confirmed town as I think we are going to get.

[boberz]

And his replacement will get that action during the night, the mod wont end a night without a replacement he is not a fool.

[boberz]

insistence? when

i am fed up of misreps mari

[boberz]

I did not insist at all, I explained there was no logic behind the reasoning to wait for moose's replacement and suddenly I am scummy.

This feels like a bloody newbie game.

[boberz]

Seconded. The game has stalled (as predicted with the delay of AntB's lynch) and a new perspective would be much appreciated..

[boberz]

You will have to explain why

[boberz]

Erm no. That was crap he spouted when I informed him that the mod was half decent.

I have replaced into spots with actions before it is easier in many ways (mods give yu enough time, and a brilliant mod anounces before the night starts that as replacements are being looked for night will be x lng instead. whether or not that person has an action) this eliminates mod wifom. You can also analyse things differently, it has no bearing, was merely a way to slow the day (not that slowing the day is scummy.)

[boberz]

@Mariyta
So your using AttMs newbness and the lack of him being scolded to clear him of scuminess?

As I've already said, I'm clearing him

for today

. I love how both you and boberz like to take things and twist them, then accuse others of "misreps."

When have I twisted? You have misrepped on many occassions even after being practcally confrmed town.

[boberz]

A Max-mislynch tells town more than an AntB-mislynch.

How so?

Wouldnt it just leave us in the same current quandry but in lylo. ANtB is in your hypo partnership it should be him first

[boberz]

AntB is my hypothetical partner to Max-scum, not the other way around.

Boberz, working on the assumption that Max flips town, who exactly do you suppose AntB is scum with?

Attm. The person I think he is scum with. But I am not doinf a massive linking case between these people

[boberz]

We should not organise your roleblock xtoxm. If we mislynch then we give mafia that free kill.

[boberz]

Everyone reread the game during the night it will make tomorrow quicker trust me. WHatever the result every bugger will want to read over again.

[boberz]

Wow it actually is Mariyta! That was insane. Bet you anything that was planned in the qt.

(its obv bobz thing)

So roleblock info please xtoxm.

Once that comes I think I deserve a chance to speak before this mariyta ql happened.

[boberz]

We should nolynch today I think. But not now.

Xtoxm, you should have used a roleblock as a no nk allows us to be in mylo rather than lylo giving us an extra day (assuming we nolynch).
I think it is likely you roleblocked me or indeed Attm.

It is possible (but very unlikely) there was a no nk as I know I am not scum and it is probable you roleblocked me. However that would be a bad decision for the same reasons as before.

---

Mariyta why should nobody answer the questions, are they antitown?

With respect xtoxm I am never going to 100% believe you are town because of your predecessor.

---

Ninja'd I am going to have to think. Screams mariyta scum to me. In which case I need to learn how to play my day 1 better.

[boberz]

Moose claims JOAT,
Clears Mariyta,
Xtoxm comes in, confirms roleblock or atleast plays along, if this was a gambit I am going to scream at him after the game)
Mariyta makes a speed bobz vote after no result despite mylo
Xtoxm creates some gambitty crap.
Mariyta has repeated spasms at his computer (I am allowed to make fun of spasms as that is what I am suffering from now)
Xtoxm goads mariyta into further spasms whilst continuing his gambit.

---

Recommended course of action.
We let everyone complete xtoxm's gambit, it cant hurt us.
We get xtoxm's result, or not or indeed supposed.
We talk
We nolynch
We get together tomorrow with somebody dead.

---

Mariyta if you can express at which stage you disagree with this, and why it is antitown then I will reconsider. Before then we run with my plan!

[boberz]

Hmm interesting. Remind me why you are 100% clear xtoxm. I want to hear it from your mouth and not moose's.

I think boberz is town too, but what are your reasons

Antihero is 99% scum that 1% split between lying scum moose and chance of nolynch)

---

The question is nolynch or lynch antihero. I do want everyone else to say more first though whatever happens.

---

Apologies again mariyta it is not deliberate. The final three points still stand in my scenario.

[boberz]

In fact, no apolgies mariyta I didnt call you a man for once. And you havent apologised after your spasms.

---

I am awaiting xtoxm's response to that but I have my ideas

---

Why would we no lynch, because if xtoxm is not 100% confirmed (which is your argument mariyta) then we do not 100% have a scum.

---

Do you really think I am scum, Boberz?

No, but today is the think everything day. You are right and it was the answer I was expecting, but had it been different questions would have been raised.

---

I think you are town because you read town. It's hard to say more than that. I have a more detailed case behind my reasons for roleblocking Antihero, which I would be happy to share at some point after everyone has checked in.

The reason I think it is is not that detailed at all. But Ill let you wait.

---

There are anti town roles that are not mandatory nks but I am not going down that road.

[boberz]

Wait Attm had Antihero as a second scum behind his primary targets (antb or me). If true, which he just said it himself. It is the both of them.

Classic tell always works still works.

vote: some mislynch fos: partner

If it has worked again I will be happy. It was won me atleast one game before.

[boberz]

Firstly I dont see how that quote setracts form my point at all.

But more importantly: when you say "that strat wont win you this game" it sounds as if you know my allignment. It sounds as if you know that to win this game I have to lynch you.

As town you dont know anything (as you claim in your next statement) so this seems very scummy indeed. We have the both of them. The question is do we nolynch and eliminate another potential, also get to further almost confirm the confirmdness of two people or indeed confirm someone else. Or indeed end up in the same situation as today.

No lose for town I would argue.

vote nolynch

[boberz]

I did mean detracts. And if you are suggesting my memory was correct then you are scum.

As for the other part, it doesnt make sense from a town point of view at all. I think this is obvious tbh.

Dekes needs to turn up.

[boberz]

Mariyta thinks hammering is scummy! lol.


Please dont quite antihero

we do need the discussion of nolynch v lynch

[boberz]

The idea that hammering is scummy is ludicrous I will laugh at it all I want. It is not a case. I will not answer non cases.

Nolynch will help because it narrows our pool of mislynches tomorrow. I am not resigned to it but I think it might be best.

[boberz]

Do you honestly think AH will be dead tomorrow if we no lynch?

So it essentially comes down to whether you believe xtoxm or not. And today we have the bonus of having more control over the lynch than tomorrow if we no lynch.

How does that change anything? You did not address the reasons I gave for a nolynch.

Should we do it or not. If not address my reasons for doing it.

[boberz]

Just seen dekes' join date, so explained why he has confused me all game. Ofcourse I believe xtoxm or at the very least do not think we can afford not to. But nolynching gives us those extra %points tomorrow and the next day. No lynching the next day only gives us that the next day.

But I am now

unvoteing nolynch

because we have a chance to confirm anothre scum if xtoxm tells us who he will roleblock tomorrow.

so xtoxm should say that now.

I will vote antihero soon.

[boberz]

Dekes thinks we should kill AH, Empking thinks we should kill AH. I think we should kill AH. The remaining town should think we should kill AH.

VOTE: Antihero

P-edit: That's L-1.

That was a crap L1 considering we needed xtoxm to tell us who he is role blocking! Xtoxm get here swift and tell us please.

[boberz]

Dont be stupid. That is not how you make decisions in lylo.

[boberz]

I am going to finish a huge reread and explain why it perhaps dekes or attm. Attm has been suspicious throughout whereas dekes has lurked and not forwarded town motives throughout. Decision time.

[boberz]

There is four of us we nolynch!!!

vote nolynch

ANd if dekes is scum he can win now, so well played guys if your town that is the worst play I have ever seen.

[boberz]

Actually it probably would just delay the decision, I had kind of forgotten that mariyta was confirmed.

unvote

Basically we sit here like this and wait for dekes to turn up. If he shows up and doesnt hammer he is confirmed town and you and I have it out Attm. If he turns up and hammers, you two suck.

[boberz]

This is a pointless discussion, two people coming into mylo with their discussions made is bloody crap. If you are both town it is uber crap. If Attm is scum he is only able to get away with this because mariyta has come into this day so crap.

If you want to policy lynch me for bein a dick do it. But I wasnt being a dick day2 when everyone else wasnt so thick. Im only a dick when people are thick. THis game has pissed me off from day1 anyway.

[boberz]

Told you so.

[boberz]

So it was a policy lynch in mylo. And I was the arsehole? That was the first time I have ever been mislynched!!! ANd it was it that manner. I cant believe it. You really shoudl know better.

[boberz]

I thought the standard of play in this game, including my own (but by no means mostly) was the worst I have ever seen in a mafia game. I also think Mariyta deserves a modkill for playing against wincon. But heyho games over.