Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[bobsnox]

/confirm

[bobsnox]

VOTE: Parama

<_<

[bobsnox]

I'm just afraid everyone will blindly follow you to my mislynching again <_<

[bobsnox]

Nope. I'm afraid of your mysterious powers of persuasion.

[bobsnox]

Parama wagon go go

[bobsnox]

are mini normals usually this slow in RVS?

[bobsnox]

are mini normals usually this slow in RVS?

Good question.

Where I normally play we would be on page 12 already if we didn't already have a lynch.

well you could always join my awesome parama wagon

[bobsnox]

WOOOOOOHOOOOOO

CooLskins and Beck just both double RVSed. There is a 100% chance at least one is scum.
Hrezs has posted and isn't voting. There is an 80% chance he is scum.
Surye hasn't posted yet outside of confirmation and I'd like the mod to unofficially prod him. There is a 100% chance he will post following that prod.
kondi is still a totally good policy lynch. There is a 50% chance I will keep my vote on him after this post.
This game's only on page three. It's impossible for me to have caught all the scum at this point, but there is an 80% chance that 2 of the 3 players I have mentioned are scum, and a 100% chance that at least one is.

This wagon isn't helpful at all.

CooLskins, why is Beck scum?
Beck, why is CooLskins scum?
Hrezs, why is kondi town?
bobsnox, why is blue?

No, that's why this wagon IS helpful. What is your gut saying, Parama? Who would you vote other than kondi?

[bobsnox]

and answer my question, dammit.

me? this?

bobsnox, why is blue?

Why is blue doesn't sound like a question I can answer...

[bobsnox]

@bob, what do you think of both my and beck's hop onto the parama wagon?

Beck seems like a newb. Kinda scummy for the "fireworks" comment.

I don't have a problem with your hop. I like your #74.

[bobsnox]

hmmm do not like

UNVOTE: Parama

VOTE: Beck

[bobsnox]

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

Is that a scumtell though?

[bobsnox]

Parama's reaction and follow up to his wagon is town in my eyes.

Agreed on Beck and agreed on the above.

[bobsnox]

beck wagon is good. he has no sense of humor.

I have a great sense of humor

bob, I asked you a question, could you please answer.

#86? I don't understand the question. How were you putting attention on yourself?

[bobsnox]

I agree about Don. If Beck weren't so scummy I would vote Don right now.

[bobsnox]

"My vote on Parama will rile people up"

[bobsnox]

Because of the timing, the manner in which you voted Parama, etc. Besides, I'm not convinced you meant to bring attention to yourself. I think you're revising history here. The end result was more attention on you, but I don't think it was intentional on your part. Certainly it hasn't been good attention.

[bobsnox]

Because of the timing, the manner in which you voted Parama, etc. Besides, I'm not convinced you meant to bring attention to yourself. I think you're revising history here. The end result was more attention on you, but I don't think it was intentional on your part. Certainly it hasn't been good attention.

So you honestly think I made a statement like that thinking it would go unnoticed?

Sure the attention has been negative, I figured people would jump all over me, so far it's gone exactly how I have planned and if/when I eventually die (by lynch or by maf/SK/vig kill) I'll leave the game with no regrets.

What I have provided is 2 serious wagons, one on parama and one on me.

Perfect for VCA later in the game.

lolwifom "I meant to get negative attention on myself!" That's not a good, protown idea if you are town. And I still don't buy it.

I started the Parama wagon, by the way. Not sure why you're trying to take credit for it. Especially since you were the last one on it.

Wow. Beck is putting out lots of content. Would like to post more, but the game I'm currently modding takes ages to mod due to [REDACTED], and I need to leave ASAP. Sorry.

Lots of good or bad content? <_<

[bobsnox]

Time to claim

[bobsnox]

And you say wifom like it's a negative thing, I can assure you 100% wifom isn't a scum tell(and yes I can provide proof for my 100% statement, unlike parama for his)

I don't think it's a scumtell. I was just stating that you were using it. It is not a helpful tool in most cases.

[bobsnox]

RVS

Unvote

Been reading and re-reading through this thread and it really got interesting towards the end. My reads of the first few pages is mostly just random chit chat but once the Parama wagon got going the game picked up. I agree with post #74. Beck wagonned onto Parama which started as an RVS wagon and now is trying to explain why it's not scummy. Primarily his "starting discussion" defense. As I was reading I was thinking to myself, "When I finish reading I'm going to be witty and vote him for his reaction", But it would appear he is now sitting at

L-1

. I'm not quite comfortable yet with hammering him so I am going to wait.

@kondi, were you aware you put Beck at L-1?

You shouldn't be comfortable with lynching anyone this fast and before he claims... I don't like that statement that "you are going to wait" and not explaining what you are waiting for.

[bobsnox]

Beck - you have done nothing protown so far. If you are mislynched and we catch scum from it, it will not be thanks to you but thanks to bad scum play.

You shouldn't be comfortable with lynching anyone this fast and before he claims... I don't like that statement that "you are going to wait" and not explaining what you are waiting for.

I rambled a bit too much in that post. I meant that as I was reading through the thread, I intended to vote on him but once I got to kondi's post and recounted based on that unofficial vote count I realized it would be bad so I am waiting. Instead I'm interested in Kondi's reasons for putting him at L-1 and xvart for L-2.

No that still doesn't address what I'm saying. You are basically saying you thought hammering Beck would be bad and so you're waiting for some other reason to hammer him. You didn't state or imply what reason that might be. That is scummy. Just waiting it scum saying, "I don't want to look bad so I'll wait for an excuse to finish him off." Not "I'll wait and judge his claim" or "I'll wait until I see a good case on him." Just "I'll wait."

Not damning but I still don't like it.

FoS Celebloki

OSV in a 13p?
pssh. all that would do is waste a lynch for the town. I see no reason to change my vote.

So you are fine lynching a town PR? Nice job. I knew I was right about you.

I doubt Parama is scum from what we've seen so far. The last time I pushed for his lynch he immediately started pushing for mine and actually got me mislynched. He did so as scum. He has responded in a much better manner in this game.

UNVOTE: Beck

Beck lives for today provided he allows the rest of us to direct his shot. If his target doesn't die, we lynch him.

VOTE: Don_johnson

[bobsnox]

lol no

[bobsnox]

Who is Beck shooting tonight?

[bobsnox]

For the record, I don't believe his claim either. Especially given his defense and ad hom against those who suspect him. Typical scum frustration IMO. But his claim is testable and could be beneficial.

[bobsnox]

Oh and fuck you all if you think I'm taking advice on my NK, if you think that's going to happen you better just lynch me now. I follow my own scum hunting, not anyone else.

ok

UNVOTE: don

VOTE: Beck

[bobsnox]

If you were town you'd agree with the plan. There is no protown reason to disagree. lynch it with fire.

[bobsnox]

L-1 with Surye's vote. Anything else we need to discuss today before night?

[bobsnox]

Repeating the same crap doesn't make it true. If you were town you'd agree to have your NK guided by a majority vote. It is the only way to prove you're town. You are against that; therefore, you are against the town. Die.

[bobsnox]

Parama - he was talking to me I think.

[bobsnox]

Why should I let my kill be guided? Scum is going to try to get me to kill a townie.

If they are convincing enough, they win night 1

There are more town than scum in this game. That means there are more townies who would direct the kill than scum.

What the... How would they win night one anyway?

[bobsnox]

Celeboki - good response. I can buy it.

[bobsnox]

If you can

all

agree, excluding the person chosen of course, I'll let you pick my nk

Against my personal beleive obviously, I'll oblige so I can use my action


I'll be useless any other night

hmmm...

[bobsnox]

it's day one

[bobsnox]

VOTE: CooLskins

Mostly hunch. Something is off about post #26.

FoS deselby

[bobsnox]

Parama - I think Coolskins and deselby are buddies. Do you see why? I'll explain but I want tonsee if it jumps out to anyome else like it did to me.

[bobsnox]

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

[bobsnox]

First off, Bob, what do you think of Celebloki's hammer?

Parama, why are you voting for Hrezs?

Vote: Parama

didn't like it but I thought his reaction to my FoS was townie so he's a null read for me.

I don't like deselby's reaction to my Coolskins vote and I don't like how Coolskins ignored it and my vote (unless I missed it - phone posting sorry). There are clearly better suspects than myself at the moment.

Parama's hrezs vote threw me off but I don't think he's scum. He's not today's lynch.

[bobsnox]

Bub you're posting as yourself. Kinda confusing

[bobsnox]

Xvart - those three together?...

Haschel - how he basically summarized why everyone was content to lynch Beck (seemed like a scummy way to seem protown instead of natural town behavior) and how he earlier just said he wanted to wait before hammering without explaining why.

You know what, I'm good with a cele lynch after reviewing his case again.

UNVOTE: Coolskins

VOTE: Celeboki

I think this is the right idea for now. Coolskins and deselby are reacting to my first vote. We can get more info out of them while gettimg the Celeboki wagon going.

Again, Parama is not today's lynch.

[bobsnox]

Coolskins - vote explanation was in the part addressed to Haschel. It was a response regarding my thoughts on celeboki's hammer. Misrep sucks.

[bobsnox]

Celebloki, deselby, don johnson - good lynches today.

[bobsnox]

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

[bobsnox]

It was also ridiculously dismissive and bordered on a strawman with your irrelevant questions.

The QT part in particular struck me as garbage.

Are you going to answer who your other suspects are?

[bobsnox]

So what you're telling me is you dismissed something you didn't understand? That's all that can be inferred from your posts at this point. That might as well be a scum confession.

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

I attacked you simply because you used ludicrous "evidence" for an assertion.

"weak reasons"?! Do you really think your reason was stronger?

Yes, all you have done is dismiss me WITHOUT (apparently) understanding my point. There's a huge difference between not seeing reasoning in my posts (which is clearly there) and thinking that reasoning is weak. You can't seem to take a stance on which it is. That's incredibly weak reasoning on your part to not only vote me but have me as your number one suspect at this point.

UNVOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: deselby

You have condemned yourself:

Town aim to lynch on evidence, scum just aim to lynch.

[bobsnox]

There IS something in my original argument and I am more sure of it because of how you reacted.

[bobsnox]

I can't believe you took the trouble to quote that only to dismiss it again. How about trying something different for a change?

[bobsnox]

Were you ever going to deny that you and Coolskins had a pre-game talk in the scumchat or are you just going to keep implying that it's a ludicrous idea?

PREGAME SCUMCHAT? THAT'S... THAT'S RIDICULOUS! BOBSNOX IS SCUM FOR SUGGESTING SUCH A NOTION.

That's about all you've said so far yet you seem content to leave it at that. What's also weird is that you haven't even brought up my day one behavior. Was I scummy then? I pushed pretty hard for the Beck lynch, but all you're focusing on is my suspicions on you. Very very narrow tunneling on me and very little analysis in other directions. Your reads are fairly thin. Some of them are downright bad (e.g., Coolskins, Haschel, Parama, zodiark). You jumped all over me for

FoSing you

yet you're wary of calling Parama scum with his weird hrezs vote. I don't think he's scum but I think you're scum avoiding him and looking for a good mislynch (me).

I would like others to post as well, but I would like you to do some better posting yourself.

[bobsnox]

this post is bad ^

[bobsnox]

your responses to his legitimate request are bad

[bobsnox]

That's a horrible analogy.

[bobsnox]

why doesn't someone unvote a claimed OSV? the role is borderline confirmable, and if not, players shot can be directed and player can be lynched later when its safe. its also much more likely to be a fakeclaim from a sk than a mafia, so this lynch is headed in the wrong direction. anyone posting from here on out without at least speculation on that matter or an unvote is getting serious scumpoints.

did you miss the part where I suggested we prove Beck's claim and let him live and he

REFUSED with a nice fuck you

? No protown killer responds the way he did. If he had gone along with the plan at first he wouldn't have been lynched. And I did unvote him.

UNVOTE: Beck

Beck lives for today provided he allows the rest of us to direct his shot. If his target doesn't die, we lynch him.

VOTE: Don_johnson

Who is Beck shooting tonight?

For the record, I don't believe his claim either. Especially given his defense and ad hom against those who suspect him. Typical scum frustration IMO. But his claim is testable and could be beneficial.

To which he responded with crap like:

Oh and fuck you all if you think I'm taking advice on my NK, if you think that's going to happen you better just lynch me now. I follow my own scum hunting, not anyone else.

Why should I let my kill be guided? Scum is going to try to get me to kill a townie.

If they are convincing enough, they win night 1

Thus:

Oh and fuck you all if you think I'm taking advice on my NK, if you think that's going to happen you better just lynch me now. I follow my own scum hunting, not anyone else.

ok

UNVOTE: don

VOTE: Beck

If you were town you'd agree with the plan. There is no protown reason to disagree. lynch it with fire.

[bobsnox]

don - OSVs who refuse to have their shot directed by a majority vote when on the verge of being lynched are stupid or scum. Beck was unfortunately the former, but the lynch was still a good one IMO.

xvart - Celebloki may have been certain Beck was SK. Celebloki is not a horrible lynch candidate for today.

[bobsnox]

deselby

[bobsnox]

don - your thoughts on deselby?

[bobsnox]

CoolSkins is more protown than deselby, thus my deselby vote over Coolskins. To answer Don's question, though, yes, I am good with a Coolskins lynch. I would prefer deselby because, contrary to recent thoughts from the above posters, his response to my FOS (IT WAS AN FOS FOR GOODNESS SAKE) is trash and he has not responded well since.

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I. He may be at a later time but we need a lot more evidence to go off of.

doesn't believe Beck's claim, but unvotes him to let him shoot
..then votes him a again..

Old argument is old. Dude said fuck you guys if you think I'm letting you direct my kill. That's blatantly anti-town. Celebloki summed it up perfectly in his hammer post.

He flailing. Got caught, claimed and thought he saved himself, got arrogant, now that the pressure is reapplied he becomes a team player again in the blink of an eye. He's just trying to appease.

Obviously we were wrong about Beck but that doesn't make him protown or any worse of a lynch. It was only a bad lynch in that we lost a PR. It was not a bad lynch in terms of appropriate actions given the circumstances. I am not backing down on that point

[bobsnox]

That only works in hindsight knowing he was the OSV.

[bobsnox]

That was helpful

WE thought he was SCUM and acted accordingly. He was only going to be alive for one night after he claimed and we gave him an appropriate manner in which to use his shot. That was his only option as far as I was concerned. He could have chosen a better way to convince us otherwise but he reacted with craptastic anti-town rage and paid for it. Now you're trying to blame the rest of us for not believing Beck's claim after his retarded reaction? Good old hindsight bias and finger pointing.

[bobsnox]

I'm reviewing everyone's ISO to see what I've missed. Would you guys look over Zodiark's ISO and tell me what you see in 181 and 242? There is something very inconsistent that I completely missed before ISOing.

UNVOTE: deselby
VOTE: Zodiark

We need to focus on nailing individual scum and less on determining scum teams at this early stage. I have a tendency to start grouping people together as suspects early in the game and it almost never pans out well.

Good lynches / wagons I will join

:
deselby
Coolskins
Hrezs

Do not lynch today

:
bobsnox
Parama
Haschel (not today - I disagree with his comments completely but I don't see a lot of scumminess in them)

We need to hear a lot from Kondi's slot. I'm null on don right now. Same with xvart. I have no obvtown reads which bothers me a lot. This is when I normally start calling everyone scum and failing, so I'm trying to avoid doing that.

[bobsnox]

Sup. Skimmed.
I see nobody suspects Hrezs except me.
This is either a sign that I'm crazy or that I hit the nail on the head. Probably a combination of both.
Actual reading will come later.

he's on my good lynch list.

Haschel - thanks for reviewing it. I think I found something good. We'll see.

[bobsnox]

Why Hrezs? Thoughts on zodiark? Thoughts on deselby's reaction? Was it good and I'm wrong?

[bobsnox]

lol

I think Parama is right.

UNVOTE: Zodiark
VOTE: Hrezs

[bobsnox]

Celebloki's not a bad lynch but I like your points on Hrezs too.

[bobsnox]

thoughts on Zodiark and deselby though?

[bobsnox]

Yeah, Hrezs needs to go for being dense.

[bobsnox]

lolZodiark

UNVOTE: Hrezs
VOTE: Zodiark

His reaction is confscum to me. Hrezs is still a good lynch but Zodiark is just bad bad scum.

[bobsnox]

lol misrep on OMGUS

Scum caught. Good day.

[bobsnox]

And yes, Celebloki was correct. I wanted to see who would jump on what I noticed between those two posts. I wanted to see who was willing to lynch someone who I immediately thought was scum after I ISOed him. Immediate town cred for some people without anyone directly sheeping me. I think I said earlier I don't have a lot of town reads in this game. Now I have both town reads and scum reads.

[bobsnox]

Coolskins that post is really scummy. There are really only two options - Zodiark is bad or he is scum. Saying he's ok is either not paying attention on your part or covering your buddy's back. He went from Celebloki is obvscum to Celebloki is not scummy whatsoever with no thought process in between. Not sure how you avoided addressing that specific point if you ISOed him. It was the first thing that popped out to me.

[bobsnox]

xvart - Parama is not today's lynch. And I made the catch <_<. I asked others to look at the same posts to see if they would jump on it like I did.

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

[bobsnox]

Ok well, you should be voting Zodiark. He had an opportunity to address his posts and he avoided doing so, opting instead to try to discredit me. Scummy posts turned into a scummy defense mechanism.

Parama can wait for later. Much later.

[bobsnox]

You can't be serious. Ok Zodiark and Hrezs are great lynches and great buddy candidates.

Here Hrezs, I'll quote exactly what I was looking at:

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Two posts later with no related content in between:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

He immediately jumped on the largest wagon (don) at the end of that post. Then, when I called him out and got a wagon on him going, he jumped on my wagon (the largest wagon again). Now tell me that's not scummy.

[bobsnox]

You rock

[bobsnox]

how is Zodiark not dead yet?

[bobsnox]

lol no not really. now you're just making excuses for him instead of looking at facts.

What does "trying to get his feet wet" refer to anyway? That usually implies someone is new. But if he's new, then how do you have a meta on him?

[bobsnox]

Why not zodiark?

[bobsnox]

Don - I like that.

UNVOTE: Zodiark

VOTE: Hrezs

[bobsnox]

MOD: VC please?

[bobsnox]

lol I have two scum on my wagon

[bobsnox]

I don't think CoolDog is paying a ton of attention at the moment but his slot is voting appropriately. Zodiark or Hrezs dies today. I will be interested to see which one of them votes for the other after pressure mounts.

These V/LAs suck but I understand it's a holiday weekend. It's just lame because we have great lynch candidates and only half of the people in the game are keeping up it seems.

[bobsnox]

lol scumcaught. Zodiark is a town read because he _____? Hrezs doesn't see the selfcontradiction I guess. Or the blatant lashing out against the first person to suspect him. Or the blatant wagon hopping to be on the biggest one of the moment. etc etc

nope Zodiark is just obvtown and I'm obvscum for even suggesting differently.

[bobsnox]

Xvart shouldn't be a blip on the radar today anyway.

Zodiark or Hrezs.

[bobsnox]

deselby - why are you still voting me?

[bobsnox]

:high-five:

[bobsnox]

I think don's explanation of why Hrezs over Zodiark should be heeded.

Hrezs today, Zodiark tomorrow

[bobsnox]

LOL that was fun to read.

Celebloki - you're on the probtown side. You can put Hrezs at L-1.

Hrezs - claim in your next post.

Heck, Zodiark should claim too.

[bobsnox]

If hrezs flips town I'm still voting zodiark tomorrow.

[bobsnox]

Should we have both Zodiark and Hrezs claim today?

[bobsnox]

hrezs claim etc etc

stop wasting time throwing mud

[bobsnox]

dudes

what is going on

[bobsnox]

bout to get the zodiark wagon going again <_<

[bobsnox]

goodness dudes someone freaking hammer already

I'm looking at Celebloki, CooLskins, Antihero, Haschel Cedricson, and Zodiark13. There is no reason Hrezs shouldn't have claimed yet and there is no reason he shouldn't be on the verge of a hammer right now. But no one is even bothering to play or pressure him. I bet there are two scum OFF of this wagon because of how long it's taking for obvscum Hrezs to die.

[bobsnox]

good lynch. if you're town you should lern2play.

Zodiark is still scum either way.

[bobsnox]

Same but don's logic was good.

[bobsnox]

Not sure about Zodiark anymore. His posts are obvscum but I have other evidence that puts him on the same playing field as Parama...

this is annoying

[bobsnox]

Oh wait. Gotta check something

[bobsnox]

Ok gotta look elsewhere for now. Maybe we come back to Zodiark but I don't think we should start there. Parama who else do you suspect?

[bobsnox]

Does celebloki look like a random kill? Maybe we start with the awol dudes who are being replaced

[bobsnox]

don - why do you think celebloki jailed zodiark? who killed celebloki?

[bobsnox]

Ok screw it. You try to clear a guy and he rages on you.

VOTE: Zodiark

[bobsnox]

You are either terrible town or scum. Your play is beyond scummy regardless of my evidence that suggests you might not be scum. You are still the best suspect based on your atrocious treatment of this game from the very beginning. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I am. Knowing that you'd be my target, I wouldn't be surprised if you guys had someone else send in the NK.

[bobsnox]

When did I do any of that last part? You're scum despite my evidence. I'm not trying to clear you anymore because you deserve to be lynched for being so obtuse and scummy.

[bobsnox]

I'm all for lynching one of the replacements. I have a hunch the Celebloki kill was random, which means scum went awol and the mod had to pick someone to kill for them.

[bobsnox]

I'm all for lynching one of the replacements. I have a hunch the Celebloki kill was random, which means scum went awol and the mod had to pick someone to kill for them.

I agree the celeb kill was unexpected. If it was a mod-random kill, what do you think it means re zodiark? I think it would be less likely zodiark is scum. Of course we can't actually know about the kill for sure, zod remains a good lynch, but we should certainly wait to hear a decent amount from the replacements before lynching tiday.

That's a separate theory from the Zodiark theory. It may be that Zodiark is just horrible town and scum were actually awol last night. I would be good with lynching antihero's slot if we don't lynch Zodiark. But I want to hear from his replacement asap.

You are either terrible town or scum. Your play is beyond scummy regardless of my evidence that suggests you might not be scum. You are still the best suspect based on your atrocious treatment of this game from the very beginning. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I am. Knowing that you'd be my target, I wouldn't be surprised if you guys had someone else send in the NK.

Way to out yourself as a tracker. Also, nice WIFOM attack there. Paint my play as bad all you like, yours has been worse. I mean, having evidence to clear someone, and yet saying that you won't mention what it is just to let a player be lynched? As I said, scum looking for an easy lynch if ever there was.

He never had evidence to clear you. If he is a tracker, then he never really had any evidence regarding you because no scum team in their right mind would send you to do the kill.

That's why I'm still voting him.

[bobsnox]

where is everyone? <_<

[bobsnox]

the theories are separate; I haven't decided which one is best yet. Obviously Zodiark is not scum if the second theory is accurate. I don't have evidence to clear anyone. I haven't even tried to clear anyone. All of my statements regarding my targets have been couched in terms of probability and likelihood. Zodiark could easily still be scum regardless that I saw no action last night. No scum team in its right mind would send him to do the kill last night as someone pointed out.

That's a horrible replacement post and I'm starting to lean toward leaving Zodiark alone for today and getting rid of the awol slots.

[bobsnox]

strawmans suck

[bobsnox]

jumping all over a miswording is pretty bad play. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, not clear you 100%. This is consistent with what I said earlier about Parama:

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I. He may be at a later time but we need a lot more evidence to go off of.

you really need to read the whole game and stop tunneling a claimed town PR.

[bobsnox]

the theories are separate; I haven't decided which one is best yet. Obviously Zodiark is not scum if the second theory is accurate. I don't have evidence to clear anyone. I haven't even tried to clear anyone. All of my statements regarding my targets have been couched in terms of probability and likelihood. Zodiark could easily still be scum regardless that I saw no action last night. No scum team in its right mind would send him to do the kill last night as someone pointed out.

That's a horrible replacement post and I'm starting to lean toward leaving Zodiark alone for today and getting rid of the awol slots.

So correct me if I am wrong....

Theory 1- You have evidence that Zodiark is clear (as clear as Parama??? which I would like to hear your reasoning on). But despite this...you are voting him [Zodiark] anyway. BTW...does this mean you think Parama is scum as well since they are both equally clear?

No, I do not have evidence that anyone is clear. I said so plainly here:

Obviously Zodiark is not scum if the second theory is accurate.

I don't have evidence to clear anyone.

I haven't even tried to clear anyone. All of my statements regarding my targets have been couched in terms of probability and likelihood. Zodiark could easily still be scum regardless that I saw no action last night.

I received a "no action" result for both Zodiark and Parama. I am still voting Zodiark because his play has been scumtastic. They are not equally anything, and I would appreciate it if you would cut out the strawman tactic.

Theory 2- All the scum were unavailable/awol and therefore the mod felt it was his duty to execute a random kill on scum's behalf. So therefore anyone who was not present over the last night phase is probably scum. Is that correct? I assume this theory would rely on Zodiark not being scum because he was around. But since you are voting Zodiark and not trying to convince the other's who are voting him that he is "clear," you must really believe he

is

scum which would negate the basis of your 2nd theory.

As I said above,

Obviously Zodiark is not scum if the second theory is accurate.

This isn't a hard concept. I am going with Zodiark being scum for now, but I could abandon that theory in favor of voting you pretty easily.

Also, since you are prepared to base your D3 vote on a "hunch" and not on actual comments or actions that have taken place over the last two plus days (as evidenced by the fact you aren't giving any evidence and calling your suspicions a....."hunch"), why not just ask the mod how he would process the night phase if scum had not submitted a kill?

I'm VOTING someone else not based on that theory. I am voting based on evidence that has happened the last couple days. This is such a waste of time. Besides,

In the event that AFK players had night actions they will be performed randomly (unless they have teammates to choose their actions for them).

The biggest issue with my 2nd theory is that the Mod only listed two awol players (antihero and haschel), and I do think there are 3 scum. But if kondi is part of that group, then I can imagine all three scum being awol for an entire night phase.

I don't think his response matters one way or the other because you either think Zodiark is scum (and he was here) or you are saying all 3 scum (assuming 3) were absent. Which is almost more of a stretch than thinking you are town.

I have been in another game where we had more than 3 scum and no one submitted an action or kill in a 72 hour night. It's not unthinkable. Have you gone through the list of players to see who hasn't posted recently? That's very misleading.

As for my last post being horrible....that's funny. If I had come in and said bobsnox is town and put a vote down on Zodiark you probably would have been high fiving me.

I would probably approve of your being correct, yes what a waste of time this line of argument is.

Preview edit- bobsnox...can you link me to where a PR has claimed?

was my claim not obvious enough?

[bobsnox]

Nice try Zodiark, but that's not a contradiction. bobsnox is just bad at words or something.

Quick to defend scumbuddies. Noted.

You realize Parama is a really good player, right? You should expect his mistakes to occur in much less obvious ways. I doubt one of the best players on this site would do something that stupid if we were scumbuddies. The last game I played with him, he bussed one of his buddies from the get go and then another one later in the game (IIRC) with little provocation. He also thinks I'm a horrible player. If we were both scum, I'd be dead by now.

jumping all over a miswording is pretty bad play. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, not clear you 100%. This is consistent with what I said earlier about Parama:

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I. He may be at a later time but we need a lot more evidence to go off of.

you really need to read the whole game and stop tunneling a claimed town PR.

Perhaps I quoted the wrong posts or something. You claimed to have knowledge that would clear me, and yet you refused to provide such evidence, preferring to let my get lynched instead, despite said evidence. Now, you took heat for the claim, and are now saying that you don't even have any evidence. And what exactly is the relevence of the quote, other that your usual BS of trying to lead the town? It's all you've done all game.

You're beating a dead horse. I am the Tracker. I saw you took no action last night. That doesn't clear you. It makes it less likely you're scum since there was a NK, but it doesn't clear you. I still think you're scum because your play has been scummy from the get go. It's funny how people are forgetting the complete 180 you did on Celebloki, completely contradicting yourself. I wanted you dead yesterday but Hrezs was on the chopping block for everyone else. You are still scummy and have not improved. I just hoped I would have damning evidence when this day started.

[bobsnox]

Not sure about Zodiark anymore. His posts are obvscum but I have other evidence that puts him on the same playing field as Parama...

I really don't like the fact that you are clearing people so to speak because they didn't travel anywhere during the night phase, especially since there have been no scum flips.

I'm NOT clearing anyone. goodness people. My evidence SUGGESTS that Parama is not scum just as it SUGGESTS Zodiark is not scum, but that doesn't CLEAR either of them. I am LEANING town on Parama and LEANING scum on Zodiark.

I agree the celeb kill was unexpected. If it was a mod-random kill, what do you think it means re zodiark? I think it would be less likely zodiark is scum. Of course we can't actually know about the kill for sure, zod remains a good lynch, but we should certainly wait to hear a decent amount from the replacements before lynching tiday.

As long as we are throwing out conspiracy theories about the Celebloki kill, I'll just say maybe bobnox is a scum tracker and tracked him the previous night. Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me. The mere suggestion that the scum NK was randomized is absurd because that would require all the scum team to have flaked, and unless there is some reason to think we only have two scum in this game at the very least I won't even consider this all and at the very most consider it scum distractions.

seen it happen before, etc. not absurd in this game.

Zodiark could easily still be scum regardless that I saw no action last night. No scum team in its right mind would send him to do the kill last night as someone pointed out.

If no scum team in their right mind would send Zodiark to commit the kill then why did you track him?

I was hoping to seal the deal. It would've been the next best thing to a cop result if Zodiark targeted last night's kill. I also didn't think about the fact that they might not send Zodiark until someone (Parama?) brought it up today.

[bobsnox]

Parama is probably a VT.

And I literally just answered your second question in the line above your post.

[bobsnox]

xvart - no I would not have claimed. But I had already made it obvious what I was by semi-clearing Parama. I was VERY against his lynching and I said there was a REASON I was "buddying up" to him. I thought I would be dead last night really. Actually, if Parama was scum I think he would've killed me last night too. So I'm even more sure he's town at this point.

[bobsnox]

Yes, out of context, those words are contradictory, but context makes it pretty darn clear what I meant. Look at how I started the day for crying out loud:

Not sure about Zodiark anymore. His posts are obvscum but I have other evidence that puts him on the same playing field as Parama...

this is annoying

I never SAID he was clear. I said I was simply not sure. I mispoke when I later said I was "trying to clear him." I meant I was trying to direct attention elsewhere for the time being and come back to him later if need be (just like with Parama).

context context context.

FURTHERMORE I find it extremely annoying that NOBODY who is jumping all over me has noted how I ended yesterday:

If hrezs flips town I'm still voting zodiark tomorrow.

good lynch. if you're town you should lern2play.

Zodiark is still scum either way.

What is the scum motivation behind my supposed fake Tracker claim with THAT in view? I would like an answer from everyone on my wagon plus havingfitz. What is the scum motivation for easing off of Zodiark when I was pre-pushing his wagon REGARDLESS of what Hrezs would flip?

There is no SCUM motivation for responding to the Zodiark situation the way I have. If you take it ALL in context I am clearly being protown and everything I have done, as Parama has noticed, has clearly fit my claim. But I would still like to see some attempts at constructing a scum-based perspective of my actions.

Every single vote on me has been bad. I'm not sure which ones of them are scummy, but they are all bad, and they all break down on this point.

[bobsnox]

Everything you believed about Zodiark being scum yesterday is still valid today.

True, but he took no action last night which is why I questioned it and said let's put him on hold for a bit. Why would I back down from my prior statements about how I would lynch him regardless of Hrezs's flip (especially since I wasn't the main proponent of Hrezs's lynch) for any other reason? I didn't back down to save my own skin. It doesn't make any sense that I would do that even if I were scum. It shows that I was actually thinking about what was going on. If I were scum, all I had to do was carry through with my promise and no attention would have been paid to me today.

What did you need to go check and what did it tell you?

Do you know what result you would get if you happened to be roleblocked?

I asked the mod if I would get a result on Zodiark even if he was awol and the mod had to pick a random target for him. Zodiark wasn't awol, though, so it was null basically. I don't think I read the part where the Mod named the awol dudes in his day scene or I wouldn't have asked.


You guys are really going the wrong way today. I'm surprised, although I admit I've goofed in how I've worded things. I kept trying to push this game along and now I'm getting screwed for how I went about it. Oh well. The smart thing to do is to keep me alive for a few days (mafia will surely kill me soon if they can't keep me from using my ability). But several people are being swayed by horrible rhetoric and the momentum of my wagon. It took a lot for me to take a step back and accept that Zodiark might not be scum at the beginning of the day. I would ask that those of you who are genuinely trying to win (I think xvart is one of them despite his incorrect stances) would do the same for me. It really doesn't make sense that I would be scum, nor does it make sense that I would be scum with Parama, nor does it make sense that I would try to steer the lynches away from both Parama and Zodiark (a strong town read and a strong scum read) if I'm scum. I have been making errors in wording and recall of events but there is zero scum motivation behind anything I've done. That is where people need to focus at this point.

Oh and I didn't say fake result. I said fake claim.

Also, why were you not worried about being NKed if it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are a tracker?

xvart - no I would not have claimed. But I had already made it obvious what I was by semi-clearing Parama. I was VERY against his lynching and I said there was a REASON I was "buddying up" to him.

I thought I would be dead last night really.

[bobsnox]

Last things for tonight:

- I mispoke (again) earlier when I mentioned kondi being a possible buddy to the awol dudes. I didn't realize antihero/havingfitz was kondi's slot. I have a lot going on lately <_<. As such, I think my 2nd theory (all scum were awol) is null. We should consider why Celebloki was the intended scum kill at this point.

- I doubt there's a cop in this game so I'd really recommend thinking that over before I'm lynched. It seems to me there would've been something from the cop slot clearing or damning someone in this mess by now.

[bobsnox]

I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him.

??????????

so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

Misrep here. I am leaning town on Parama because his play has been protown, IMO (see Zodiark for antitown). I have never said he was 100% clear. I said we needed more evidence before we could lynch him because MY evidence suggested he was not scum. I said the same about Zodiark but his play has been scumtastic through and through. That's why I support his lynch over Parama.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill.

as an afterthought, yeah.

details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious.

But show me the scum motivation behind anything I've done! For crying out loud, I have asked SEVERAL times for someone to do that, but you guys keep rehashing the same crap. "bob mispoke...bob said the wrong thing...bob forgot that he originally said ___ before anyone else...bob backed down from a Zodiark lynch...bob has two theories which are mutually exclusive" but WHY did I do any of that if I'm scum?

bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?"

what post is this referring to?

if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming

Exactly, and I've been acting like a Tracker this whole time.

but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you."

stop the misrep! I never cleared anyone. I didn't even mistakening use the word "clear" with regards to Parama.

bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

How is that baiting? Stop reaching. I never asked or implied that I wanted anyone to claim. I was analyzing the history of this game.

[bobsnox]

Three people are still alive who were on both the Beck and Hrezs mislynches: bobsnox, Parama and xvart. I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him. That leaves me with parama and xvart out of the three common mislynchers. With three scum in this game (unless anyone thinks otherwise) I am banking on at least one scum in that group of three. After my skim through read I find Parama more suspect than xvart (subject to change) so he gets my vote. I haven't mentioned most of the players...Zodiark did not stand out in my read. I'm not confident that either of the L-2 wagons are scum.

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?

This guy is town. Good post deselby.

[bobsnox]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time.

I don't know how you can say something like that in light of what his contradiction was:

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe.

And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

It wasn't "changing his mind" - it was a contradiction in his line of reasoning with NO reference to his directly opposite statements in his prior post. He contradicted himself just so he could join the biggest wagon (which he did 3 times prior to today IIRC!).

His play has been a mountain of scummy - no molehills there.

[bobsnox]

Phone post. Things weren't tight at any point when I hinted at my role. I did it early both days. I did it to steer discussion, not to save myself or avoid suspicion.

[bobsnox]

oh well. I tracked the right people just couldn't use my role <_<