Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over

[Claus]

Meh, I boldly refuse to random vote this game!
/me goes to sit into a corner.

[Claus]

Hmmm, it seems to me that you are trying too hard to make cases out of thin air, LML. This is the second time already. (a _little_ better than the "interesting dynamic" in random votes, however).

Vote: LML

And I get to form the first bandwagon - yay!

[Claus]

You don't get to form ANY bandwagon without the town believeing in you. What do you expect me to do? Twiddle my thumbs and not be aggressive? I implore you, check out ANY of my games. I am hyper aggressive.

It catches scum an awful lot. You may be scared of the best mafia performance button by my name, but the year before that, I was the paragon of mafia hunters.

Pairings are important to look at, especially after we gain valuable information through lynching and NKs. Instead of just documenting these pairings in my notes, I give them to everyone to read. It tends to make scum very nervous.

So, Claus, are you nervous?

Wow... let me count...

You are bashing me here with appeal to authority, read-my-previous-games-I'm-like-that-shut-up, intimidation, AND patronizing. That is REALLY charming, LML

(Oh, and I hadn't noticed your little button - congratulations!)

I'll be without internet until sunday evening - until them, I don't think it will hurt leaving my vote on you, you seem to like it.

[Claus]

Don't worry. I am patronizing. I'm a true asshole

Then I think we'll get along just fine.

But why are you still saying I'm nervous, and not frustrated? I don't feel either nervous OR frustrated: It is too early in the game for either

Claus, why are you trying to form a bandwagon on such shaky ground?

Because it gets people talking. Why do a meaningless random vote when you can get people accusing and defending you by doing something a bit more bold?

For instance, someone2: You said my behavior is very scummy twice. Can you elaborate on that, or are you saying I'm scummy because a lot of people seem to be saying that too?

[Claus]

I think this is the most dynamic game I have been to so far. In three pages we had accusations on Me, LML, Rishi, Lowell and Someone2 flying around (a few more ones maybe, but these seem to be the most important ones).

First, answering questions:

Someone2, you said that you felt I'm scummy because I did not defend myself, just made fun out of LML. Well, at that time, LML did not accuse me of anything in particular, so I don't think I had anything to defend against.

Saying that he was "really charming" was my way to point that out, too bad you didn't get it.

Now, re-reading the game, and seeing what interesting comes off it:

-- In the random stage, rite gets three votes (Happy Sadist, LML and then Death Omen), even before I put my third vote on LML. No one comments on this.

(I did not notice that too until now)

Death Omen and Happy Sadist unvote when "random stage is over" (late page 2). Happy sadist has no other posts. Death Omen has one more vague post about why are people FoSing so much and voting so little. I don't like this post of his very much, feels vague and a little like "hey, I'm here, not lurking, no sir".

-- Someone2 first makes sure to point out his vote on Rishi was random. He FoSes me for my interaction with LML. His initial message is confusing, then he explains it.

Later, he FOS Lowell, but seems to have misread him (he says "don't understand the problem with internal jokes", when Lowell's vote was really about "trying to make friends".

His "best" moment is when he answers LML, saying that he FoSes, wait for answer, and vote if he doesn't like the answer. And in the same message votes for LML anyway. His reason "thinking about lynching?" is stupid - lynching is the town's only weapon.

-- Streeflo: points out some quotes from LML he thinks Hypocritical - I'm not sure I see anything terribly hypocritical in them. Accuses Rishi of making things out of thin air. Votes Someone for LML's reason.

-- BMQ makes a good reasoning for voting me and for FoSing Lowell, his FoS of lowell seems to contain a claus-scum element. Then he says that he is fine for lynching either Someone2 or Lowell today, forgetting about me (while keeping the vote). Don't like this much - seems to be following the flow.

-- LML tries to bully me first, then tries to bully Someone2. His vote on someone2 has a better reasoning (probably because of more material), his "scumhunt by bullying" seems genuine.

--------------
I think right now Someone2 is more deserving of a third vote than LML, although there is still a lot of people who haven't posted nearly enough.

unvote.
Vote: someone2
FOS: BMQ
minor FOS: Death Omen

Questions ->
Lowell -> why the FOS on kuribo?
Death Omen -> could you clarify your thoughts? Who do you think is FoSing too much?

mod:

Prod Happy Sadist, Beastly

[Claus]

Claus, on the other hand, has OMGUS'd, he's flip flopped and he's tried to divert the suspicion from him onto other people rather than explain his posts.

Where am I trying to divert the attention from me? I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

Too bad that you don't like flip flopping. I don't find changing one's mind scummy, if they have reasons for it. In fact, NOT changing your vote when you think someone else has become more suspicious is a scumtell for me.

Also, what posts do you think need explaining? Someone2 commented that my "humiliating" (what?) LML was scummy, and I answered that. Do you have any particular questions, or are you just trying to conjure up accusations out of nothing?

Now, regarding your posts, you have twice now snapped at BMQ's "we are lynching" attitude, but casually brushed off that as "aggressive town". To me, it seems he is just cheering whichever the current bandwagon is without committing himself to it, or trying rationalize his "let's lynch X". Is that aggressive town?

[Claus]

I think that I pointed my FOS at BMQ exactly because he flippantly forgot his suspicion of me when the town started to look at someone2 and Lowell.

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to apologize for that, since apparently it's very fun to keep bringing it up.

Are you saying that it was REALLY a mistake? I thought your first "mistake" post was sarcastic.

[Claus]

Indeed, you did point an FOS at BMQ, but your vote rests on someone2. You're doing precisely what you're acusing BMQ of--- Forgetting suspicion of someone else when the town starts pointing in another direction.

Forgetting? I voted Someone2 and FOSed on BMQ on THE SAME POST. Talk about misrepresenting someone.

You said I was not explaining and deflecting - I answered that you didn't ask me anything - then you say that you don't have anything to ask me, but accuses me AGAIN of deflecting. wtf?

When I voted for Someone2 and FOSed BMQ, I actually made comments and questions about/to a number of other players and the game itself - where is the deflection? Did you even bother to read that post?

Really, it seems that you're trying to make me look scummy to others by just repeating those accusations over and over. Not Kosher.

As for Lowell, his vote against me and the misspelling was not what I saw as scummy, more along the lines of the fact that he couldn't give a good reason for a random vote outside of the random phase. Not only that, but when pressed for answers, he still had nothing. He's either scum, or a very poor townie.

I don't think his vote was random. In my read, he accused Streeflo of trying to "buddy up" with others - maybe a bad reason to vote, but certainly not random. I actually think that his FOS on you is much more scummy than his vote on Streeflo. "one of his posts looked off" is similar to what you're doing to me here

For me it seems he is a Lurkish player. Some said that his answers were bad, but he actually didn't give any answers at all. When he decides to answer, we can see if his answers are scummy or not.

His posts 4 and 5 are more noteworthy. Defending someone while at the same time saying that person is scum is of course fence-sitting. But he is right that there are people around here who seem to be pussyfooting with their votes.

------

That said, I kinda liked someone2 answer to my accusation. It made me think it is time to re-read each player, specially those flying under the radar, and make a scum list before voting again next post.

unvote.
unfos.

Until I take the time to read each player.

[Claus]

Mod

I would like to ask for a replacement. I have to remove myself from Mafia Scum from an indeterminate amount of time.

To everyone, I'm really sorry about this. If there is anything I can do to help hunting for replacements (posting to specific threads or the like), please PM me.

For closure, I'll make a brief analysis of each player, as I had promised that last post.

[Claus]

Analysis of each player by (mostly) reading their posts individually:

Beastly - Seems to have put genuine effort in his last analysis post. The only think that strikes me is that he didn't come up with any conclusion from that post - if he fixes it up by next post, and keeps up with similar efforts, I'd feel safe about him.

BMQ - I liked his first two posts (including the vote on me, wowzers!), but his latest posts have left me wanting. He is not aggresive as LML is aggressive. He took the time to explain his vote on me, and now is just pointing out who he thinks is scummy without explaining. Don't like. And he deserves a prod as well.

Death Omen - Don't like. Posts 3rd silent vote on rite during random phase. Points out that FoSes are flying around, but just FoS himself. "Don't get why someone2 is not defending when he is close to a lynch" - he's not close. FoSes beastly for not posting his analysis - not fair when he himself is not posting any analysis either. Seems like lurking in plain sight.

Happiest Sadist - I'm not sure of him either way. His point about discussing the bus Vs. discussing Lowell is interesting, but I disagree partially. Discussing the bus obv. makes the assumption that lowell is scum, but switching the discussion to lowell seems to make the assumption bigger. I think more productive would be to see closely other people's reason to vote, or not to vote Lowell. Anyway - neutral list.

kuribo - Don't like him, has been making mountains out of molehills on his accusations of me, and his first accusations of Lowell.

LML - His style seems consistently aggressive. I'm neutral, slightly positive towards him.

Lowell - Don't like. He is refusing to answer questions AND refusing to explain his accusations. I can see arrogant town doing either of those, but doing both is pushing it.

Rishi - Aside from his suspicions on LML, he has been lurking in plain sight as well. Lots of posts, low content - neutral-bad list.

Rite - few posts, but give me a pro-town feeling overall. I liked his last two posts. Good list. Deserves a prod, also.

Someone2 - Although I'm not a fan of his posts, or reasonings, I'm starting to think that this is his best effort play. His answers to my post and to Death Omen's seem reasonable. I'd put him on the neutral list and keep an eye on him for consistency.

Streeflo - Don't like. Voted someone2 using someone else's reasoning. Seems too timid, too defensive.

------------
Sum Up (as of this post)

Nice List:
rite
Happiest Sadist
Beastly

Neutral list:
LML
Someone2
Rishi
Death Omen

Naughty List:
Streeflo
Lowell
Kuribo
BMQ

I'll leave votes and FOSes for my successor - which might disagree with me anyway. Thanks for the game.

[Claus]

Ok. I'm back. Sorry for replacing out earlier in the game.

But I'm kinda LA until the 30th. I have plenty of access to the computer, but some RL stuff is giving me enough of a headache that not often I'm in the mood for mafia. I'll be reading and answering questions and voting but probably won't do a re-read until feb.

So, could anyone put me up to date with who claimed, who was under the hotseat, etc? Pretty please?

Thanks

[Claus]

Sorry for not chiming in. I haven't yet caught up with this game. If you will excuse me, I'm planning to do this reread around friday.

Rishi, thanks for the catch up.
Hello again, Setael!

[Claus]

Hello there!

Starting my re-read now, If I don't finish it today, I'll tell you later.

[Claus]

Okay. I have read D1.

I think Someone2 deserved to be lynched that day. That is too bad. I still think he deserves to be lynched.

Setael and D_O (now rosswilliam) looked townie D1. Well, at least as townie as D_O is capable of looking :-/ Unless RW did something really bad D2, I don't think he deserves the votes he seem to be getting.

Rishi is neutral. Not a good read on him.

I liked Lowell's analysis under gunpoint. I didn't like his crazy votehopping near the end of the day, but that makes no sense as scum, unless he was trying to do some sort of "defense by insanity". Not sure of what to think of him. Will chuck him in the neutral list for now.

Rite (now thesp) and LML (now thok) give me bad vibes. Specially LML.

I'll

Vote: Someone2

and when I get the time tomorrow I'll finish reading D2 and do a deeper analysis.


Oh, and I would like a vote count as well, I think Someone2 is at three votes, but I'm not sure.

[Claus]

Ok. I have finished a first re-read. This is not necessarely in strict scummyness order. Yeah, I can do better than this, but I'm pressed for time.

-- Someone is still my main suspect. He managed to slip D2 because Vaughn made an ass of himself. Thesp, I'm REALLY interested in the pro-town posts you claim that someone2 did, because I'm not seeing any.

-- Lowell is disappointing me, it seems he did nothing D2, D3 other than jump around bandwagons. This behavior is not justifiable past D1. I'm starting to think that Lowell is trying to make a ruse for us to ignore him.

-- Ross Williams: I would like to see a player analysis from you. While D_O seemed to me like the D_O we all know and love, and while the Vaughn lynch was his own doing, your signal/noise ratio is pretty low. What do you think of other players, and what question do you have for them?

-- Both Thesp and Thok predecessors were scummy in D1, Thesp D2 happily cheered a Vaughn bandwagon (but vaughn brought it to himself), and Thok seemed to be gunning for easy OMGUSy kuribo, and now Someone2.

I'm uncertain about these two. My gut says scum, but when I look at it carefully, I can't say exactly _why_. Need to re-read them closer.

Thesp: What on thok makes you unconfortable? and what did Someone2 say that is pro-town?
Thok: Sorry, can't think of a question for you now.

-- Rishi seems just tunneling on the sidelines.

Rishi: Do you think that the Kuribo and Vaughn bandwagons were without merit? What do you think of Someone2? Thok? Thesp?

-- Setael does not worry me. Seems honestly curious about the game.

-- In the few posts he had, streeflo did not worry me much. I would also welcome a replacement, because we can't be lynching all lurkers at this stage in the game.

I think that is everyone.

Naughty list:
Someone2
Lowell

Neutral list:
Lowell, Thok
Rishi, RW
Streeflo

Nice List:
Setael

=================================
PS: ugh. I probably need another re-read. But probably won't do it before wednesday.
I'm pretty okay about a someone2 lynch, though.

[Claus]

Let me clarify that. I was talking only about kuribo. (easy OMGUSy kuribo , ///// and now Someone2)

Kuribo is OMGUSy, he gets riled easily, so it is easy to get something stupid that he says and vote him for it.

The someone2 vote is okay. While I don't discard the possibility of a bus, this vote on D2 and D3 is why I'm confused about your alignment.

[Claus]

Oh, yay

[Claus]

Sorry thesp. You specifically said that Someone2 had a few pro-town quotes that made you "largely uninterested" in him, and I'm waiting to see those.

Someone2 has been largely following the crowd. He is not "wrong" because he has few opinions of his own.

But if you want to confirm that you are his scumpartner, that is fine for me as well.

[Claus]

Just to say I'm still around. I'm almost finishing the paper that was keeping me V/LA'd for most of January, so I should be able to sit and enjoy a good re-read somewhere around this weekend.

[Claus]

Sorry for the inactivity.

After reading Ythill's bandwagon analysis, I decided to re-read the three "PE#1", S2, DO/RW and Lowell.

Here is the short version:

Unvote: Someone2
vote: RossWillians

And here is the long version:

DO/RW:

DO was ambivalent towards the Lowell bandwagon, by cheering for and against it, but he was also ambivalent towards Kuribo and S2, saying both looked suspicious, but never voting any of them.

Now, my first analysis of DO is that he was a VI. That's my experience with him from another game. However, doing a quick meta of him shows me that when he is usually more liberal with his votes. It makes sense for me a scum-D_O to become vote-timid.

Re-reading RW in isolation, I see him dismissing Lowell and S2 completely in his first post, and going for the neck on kuribo, after he had claimed. He jumps into Vaugn bandwagon without reasoning. his "kuribo makes less and less sense, vaugn makes more and more sense" post says nothing.

Then he asks Thesp for more opinions on the game. I ask him for information, and he says he is busy. Now he says he is busy again, and claims townie.

I actually believe he is/was busy. But scum can get busy just as well as town.

Result: much scummier than before this read.

S2:

Hrm. I think I was wrong regarding Someone2. If you re-read S2 posts with "Assume Good Faith" in mind, he comes up as much more town-like.

I still would like very much to hear from Thesp the "very pro-town" posts from someone2 - please thesp, if you have the time don't skip this question. But I don't wanna lynch someone2 anymore today.

Lowell:

... ... ...

throws hands into the air.

I can't read Lowell. I would hate to be with him in the endgame. My mind says "lynch the sucker - if he is town he needs to play better", my gut says "it's a trap!"


===============================
Oh, and RW is at L-1 now, FYI.

[Claus]

Hello!

Right now, I would agree with a thok lynch.

But I'd like to re-read the game again a little first.

[Claus]

Lowell, you are such a persuasive player. I don't feel like lynching you just because of that.

Ythill, thanks for taking the time to do all that analysis. I'm finding myself not really inspired by this game, but that might actually be influence of RL right now. So I'll put my current thoughts on the table.

These thoughts are not backed up by a new re-read.

S2 - after my last re-read, I've pretty much given up my S2-scum theory.

Lowell - a "lynch Lowell while we're not at lylo" is not a bad idea, but the fact that Ythill suggested it, and the way that he suggested it has ringed my bells a little.

Thok - I agree that thok feels scummy. I think thok feels scummier than lowell, and I would be less nervous about a thok lynch than a lowell lynch right now.

Thesp - For some reason, my first impression when I replaced back into the game is that thesp was slightly scum. But after two re-reads since then, I cannot see where I got that impression from. I need to keep better notes. :-/

Ythill - I was set on a S2 lynch, but Ythill's comments yesterday made me re-read the game, and re-evaluate that position. Sorry if it sounds scummy to you, Ythill, but I just realized I was wrong.

One thing bothers me though, is that Ythill is so set that Thok and Lowell are scum - even though I agree with him. I played one other game with Ythill, and he was more open to other possibilities. Then again, I know I get paranoid when things start looking too good to be true.

Ythill, suppose you are wrong about Lowell - who would you be looking at to be Thok's partner? Or would that reduce the possibility of Thokscum to you?

Setael - Come back here Set! I could use your second opinion


This game needs more care and loving.

[Claus]

Whops, Almost forgot. I don't like to sit around without a vote:

vote: Thok

[Claus]

Super happy with my vote.

What vote?

[Claus]

I can't see the benefit of a mass claim now.

[Claus]

a "lynch Lowell while we're not at lylo" is not a bad idea, but the fact that Ythill suggested it, and the way that he suggested it has ringed my bells a little.

What about the way I suggested it was suspicious?

The fact that you so certain that they are the two scum remaining, and don't seem to be worried about other possibilities.

Ythill, suppose you are wrong about Lowell

Lowell being town would cancel one scumtell Thok's dropped but, considering who is left alive, it wouldn't clear him altogether. As for other scumpartners, I haven't carefully considered interactions or whatnot, but I'd look deeper at Seta, S2, and Claus (in that order) if Lowell came up town.

Why do you put me as less scummy than S2? I thought you were pretty sure of him as town?

That said,

BTW: Thok's recent posts are a little dodgy, eh?

Agreed.

[Claus]

mod

can we get a S2 prod? I'd like to hear his opinions as well.

[Claus]

Not opposing - I just don't see the benefit.

I think it will distract us from scumhunting more than anything else.

Talking about distracting, what do you think about Thok, Lowell? Do you support/oppose his lynch? Why?

[Claus]

Hey! I'm original! I just replaced away for a while.

Can't really post today, but I think the two scum lynches and the failed kill give us plenty
of room to get rid of Lowell.

Vote: Lowell

Will post more saturday.

[Claus]

I don't have anything against a partial claim or mass claim.

Oh, and I'm going on a trip from sunday. I'll post my thoughts tomorrow, and then I'll be back only on wednesday. I'll most probably leave my vote on Lowell through.

[Claus]

I'm not a roleblocker.

And I think that if we actually HAD a roleblocker who managed to block mafia, or a cop with a guilty, they should just come up and tell us, because that would end the game. I find this semi-mass-claim kinda silly.

If we have a cop with at least 3 living innocents, they should come forward also - specially if those innocents are some of the less readable players. Yeah, I'm not a cop either.

I'm pretty sure that Thesp is town. Ythills reasons (bussing two partners) sums it up well, but I was already starting to have this Thesp-town feeling when I realized that I was wrong about S2.

I'm also fairly sure about S2's townhood.

I want to see more of Setael.

Ythill is funny. My gut says he is town, my paranoia says that he bussed RW and tried to use that to kill lowell yesterday (if lowell is town).

I think we need to lynch lowell today. Because of yesternight, we got a free myslinch (we are 2 myslinches from lylo now) we should use that to clear lowell.

Oh, and this is probably my last post on this thread until wednesday. Take care everyone.

[Claus]

Ythill is funny... my paranoia says that

Let me ease your paranoia. I came into this thread explicity suspecting RW, Thok, and Lowell. My main reason for attacking Lowell rather than Thok yesterday was to play devil's advocate and keep conversation going for awhile.

Okay. That makes sense.

The wording here is odd and suggests that Claus knows Lowell to be town. I'm not very suspicious of Claus at the moment, but this raises my hackles.

I'm afraid I cannot ease you on your fears.

I'm sure Thesp is not scum - two strong busses plus S2 defense. I pretty sure S2 is not - scum hunting plus good answers to pressure. I think you are not - scum hunting minus latent paranoia. I feel Setael is not - playstyle. I can't read lowell. That's my game list.

However, I also don't have a *REASON* to say "Lowel is certain scum, lolz" - mind you, I find your reasons to be real good, and probably on the spot, but I have not had the time to double-check them, so I can't honestly say I'm voting for your reasons either.

So, why vote lowell, if I'm so unsure? Well, my vote has a reason - I'm voting lowell because I don't believe the OTHERS to be scum. I fully back my vote and my participation on the lynch - but I have no illusion that there is good chance I'm wrong.

[Claus]

mod:

Prod the new guy?

This was done on the same day the request was made, and the prod was picked up.

[Claus]

Ok guys. I'm going on a trip again. But this time my net access will be probably just limited, not completely cut off. We should kill Lowell today. Over and out.

[Claus]

lol.

I'm terribly LA this week, but I'm reading the thread. Sure, we can do claims.

[Claus]

Bang. I'm town.

I find TS' claim is a little hard to believe. I don't see Seta-scum, Ythill-scum, or even Thesp-scum (which I don't believe) targeting an unkillable twice.

On the other hand, I had TS pegged as town from my last re-read. I have to re-read this carefully.

[Claus]

Oh, I also don't believe in two scum no-kills. So something is strange here.

[Claus]

Stranger, explain to me why the scum would try to target you twice, again?

[Claus]

I would also appreciate everyone's theories on why scum would target S2/Stranger twice over me or thesp, two people who have largely been considered townies for a larger part of the game.

[Claus]

Ok, let's stop with this charade. I don't think I'm smart enough (or experienced enough) to use it by myself all that well. I hope Thesp and/or Ythill (if not scum) can use the reactions that happened so far.

I'm the doc. I roleclaimed only "town", not "vanilla townie" back there.

N1 CTD protected rite
N2 CTD missed the night order, then he was replaced D3.
N3 I protected Ythill
N4 and N5 I protected Thesp.

Then either we have scum that targetted Thesp twice, or some scum targetted thesp once and then S2/The Stranger. I don't see S2/The Stranger being targetted twice.

You may now also start wondering if a
Vig/Tracker/Doc/BLT vs Mafia Doc is more or less likely/balanced than
Vig/Tracker/Doc vs Mafia Doc.

I'm midway through a re-read right now. I hope to post it (and an analysis of my "lie") later today.

[Claus]

Relevant posts from my re-read.

Day 1:

Beastly/Seta -

32 - def. Thok/att rite thesp
92 - D_O Fos Beastly for not posting. Not sure what to make of this.
93 - Speaks a lot, but don't say much.
131 - Scumdar pinging. There is a new scummy player around: kuribo, so Beastly, who is not in the lowell bandwagon, decided to offer this alternate route, and to blame the L-1 bandwagon at the same time (without actually going that far to defend the bandwagon.) Kuribo is pleading to lynch Lowell? What about S2 and D_O?
183 - Didn't you promise us a re-read a while ago? Another scummy post from someone who was supposed to be "away". Anyway, votes S2.
217 - Rish (and others) think that beastly is under the radar, but beastly was active and wagon jumping.

232 - Seta's first post. mentions 58, 61, and 150 as scummy posts from S2. In retrospect, knowing the identity of LML and S_O, the above mentioned posts are not so scummy (see S2 comments below). Accuses LML of distancing from S2... wait, why? you didn't accuse LML of anything yet. Puts S_O and Rishi together in the same scum basket. Seems to cherry pick scummy quotes from kuribo as an alternative.

While this whole post is rational, scum can also be rational, and given the known roles, all the opinions expressed here benefit scum.

249 - "Death omen acts so scummy when he is town!"
275 - I don't like the last paragraph of this post, specially because earlier Seta cheers rite into voting S2. Then again, my analysis of this post may be coloured by the fact that I'm finding Seta scummy right now.

289 - Some people say that Seta requesting a role claim before deadline is scummy, but I just don't see the logic in that. I wouldn't mention this post, but since it seem important to some people, here is what I think of it.

Someone2 -

35 - fanning fires (see my post 42)
58/59 - Thok interaction -> Thoks votes S2, but agrees that Lowell is scummy.
61 - maybe going a bit too far for distancing? 63, coming to the rescue?
113 - Doesn't sit right to me. He makes a tunell visioned push towards lowell lynch.
122 - Accuses D_O for cheering Lowell lynch (currently at L-1) I don't think S2 scum would do this to a partner while staying on the wagon.
150 - is... strange. The fact that he refers to D_O defending lowell to attack lowell indicates to me that they are not linked, but the attack on lowell with the focus on Rishi's defense is not good either.
162 - Ignore the "slip". The reasoning is somewhat in line with the ammount of insight that S2 has been displaying so far. This is a hard one, but I think this post smells of town in general.

169 - LML offers S2 as an alternative to lowell.
171 - D_O also points his guns at S2.
194 - D_O says S2 slip is pretty bad, and wants an explanation (it already came!) he doesn't vote, but if beastly is scum, there is already scum voting S2.
So, right after the slip and strange post (pointed out by CTD), we have Lowell and D_O, who are scum, and lowell (who everyone suspects), accusing S2. With suspicion mounting on Kuribo, and Lowell still in the lynch range, I would expect scum not to be SO fast bussing their partner like this, so the reaction of LML and D_O points to a possible S2 town.

175 - Like the response.

Streeflo/Ythill

64 - I don't see scum doing this.
78 - don't know what to make out of this.
94 - accused by Thok/LML
101 - again accused by LML to be Lowell's partner when Lowell is in danger of being lynched.
123 - townie like post. I also don't understand what Lowell saw on streeflo.

Day 1 summary:

Beastly seems lurkish, and then comes back with some scummy posts pushing the popular wagons. Seta replaces and resumes this policy, albeit with a more rational tone. Also, S_O and LML seemed to ignore beastly (and each other) most of the day.

Someone 2 did some incongruent posts, but my re-read netted the same result, this seems like his best effort game. The attacks from S_O and LML on his wagon seemed to strong to be bussing.

Streeflo was largely absent during most of D1. While there is nothing there to accuse him, he also doesn't "have an alibi", specially because LML seems to lightly fos him a few times.

My result from my D1 re-read is that Setael is most likely our scum, followed by Ythill, and S2 as a distant third (heh, not that different from my last re-read).

It helps that I can see Seta trying to target Thesp, who led two wagons on her scumbuddies, but not me, who had a "good feeling about her", and then S2, who was getting low in the charts in regards to scummyness.

I will go out for lunch, then resume with re-reads of the following days. Thanks for reading

[Claus]

Wow, no one posted, and I was away for eating AND gym... oh well.

Day 2:

Setael:

302 - Opens with an accusation of Kuribo, D_O, and streeflo as non-participants of the S2 lynch. Don't like this much, specially since D_O is already revealed as mafia, but it is not a terrible post in isolation.

314 - I don't like this post attacking Kuribo. Kuribo is a rash player, and some questions in this posts seem uninformative and tailored to smear dirt on kuribo: "Are you assuming S2 was not a power role?" - not town, not scum can know this. The next question is leading. The last paragraph crowns it: Setael accuses Kuribo of blaming the lurkers, when she did the very same thing in her opening post.

325 - "How do you explain the No Lynch if someone2 is town?" - The intent behind this question is obvious: if S2 is town, scum would take the chance of jumping on the easy "deadline lynch". Well, two of the scum were AFK during the deadline phase (LML/Thok and D_O), and both have already started attacking S2 today.

Because I have this growing feeling that S2 is indeed town, this reads to me like someone who has insider knowledge of why the lynch failed: because their buddies were not around. Setael-scum would distract attention from their buddies AND dirty S2 with this statement.

352 - Don't know what to make of this post.
368 - beastly is called a non-entity by lowell - I disagree - , and setael, who posted a lot, was barely mentioned.
373 - Votes S2 after Kuribo's claim
406 - Likes S2 better, But would vote vaugn per Thesp's comments. Thesp comments also address thok and RW, but these are not mentioned.
417 - Attacks rishi for low content vote on vaugn. Tries to link S2 and rishi.

Streeflo/Ythill:

- 318: Votes Vaugn for his bad posts. I can't find a problem with this post right now.
- 334: Vaugn responds and Streeflo unvotes. Sounds okay.
- 345: Votes Kuribo. I don't like the stated reasons in this post. Could be just OMGUS.
- 346: Justifies previous vote better.
- 368: Is not mentioned at all by lowell.
- 376: Keeps vote on Kuribo post claim.

Someone2:

- 303: DGB (lowell) quickly jumps into the "let's lynch S2 again!"
- 304: complains about a "continuity lynch" - I find this a reasonable objection.
- 312: D_O Supports a someone2 lynch. At least 2 confirmed scum are now supporting the lynch.
- 362: Votes Kuribo for supporting lurker lynch and following setael on the rishi vote. Seems okay.
- 375: Unvote kuribo post claim.
- 407: Makes a player list. This list largely makes sense given the recent postings. The "recent replacements are neutral" sounds newbiesh play, and S2 did plenty of that already.
- 411: There are good cases for Vaugn and Kuribo, and still Thok votes for S2. Hrmmm.
- 424: accuses vaughn for a scummy posts. Says that he saw LML as relatively townie.


Summary of D2:

Streeflo is largely inexistant, and his few posts are okay-looking. S2 is attacked by Thok and S_O, but Vaughn and Kuribo take the spotlight, so we don't see enough of this attack. It sounds legit, though. Setael participates on lots of attacks, and some of her posting is slightly scummy looking.

I'd say that on D2, the order is:
- Seta
- S2
- Streeflo

With Streeflo and S2 near each other, and Seta much more scummy.
(on D1, Seta was more scummy, with Streeflo close behind, and S2 way
behind).

More details:

Setael:
Takes part on the S2, Kuribo AND Vaughn attacks, and throws some mud at rishi.

Ythill
- Thok and RW don't comment at all on Streeflo. Streeflo has some interactions/attacks with vaughn and kuribo. The ones with vaughn are okay. Then dissappears (and gets replaced D3).

S2 - Scum (D_O and DGB) quickly jump to attack him at the start of the day.
Votes kuribo, and then unvotes. Cheers and hammer the Vaughn bandwagon, but Vaughn had it coming.

=============================

Okay. I think I won't have time to re-read the next days right now, but
that is definitely coming. On sunday or maybe monday. I want to re-read
some of Ythill before deciding on my vote. But It's getting harder
to unconvince me of S2's townhood, in spite of initially finding his claim strange (changing your mind FTW).

[Claus]

See sig. I have to be away from MS. It may be some days, or who knows.

Really sorry about that. Please replace me.

Gr. I hate myself right now.

[Claus]

Wait Fonz. If possible, wait for two days. I may be able to sort things out. I will let you know if I don't. I will not post in the meanwhile, but I think my last few posts were enough for the town to chew on.

Thanks for the comprehension, btw.

[Claus]

Albert, you rock!

I'm taking back the wheel now. Thanks for holding it while I duelled with my ex. Damn, that bitch made me lose my place in the mini normal queue.

TheStranger - I don't care if you believe or not that my leaving was intentional. It was. This is my only active game right now (besides a co-modding with ABR).

I did not claimed doc at first (even though I did breadcrumb), because I wanted to see the reactions of the town. It was a gambit that I wanted to try. You have to be creative from time to time to have fun.

Setael - my arguments are not full of wifom. I started my re-read thinking that TS claim's was fake, and he was the scum. The re-read made me see you as the most probable scum. After I started seeing that, of course I tried to re-view the events from a possible Seta-scum point of view. This is not WIFOM, because I'm making my choice of the most probable event.

Ythill - The "bang" comes from computer literature. I'm a comp geek. Bang - "!" means "not" in computer lingo. What I wanted to write in my claim was "bang vanilla townie" - not vanilla townie.

I'll leave ABR's vote on Seta, and maybe continue my re-read tomorrow.

That's all for now kids.

[Claus]

An extensive search of online computer slang glossaries revealed no such term. Please cite, with links, a couple examples of the term used in that context.

whut? Extensive search, Ythill??????? Two minutes in google with "bang symbol" gave me this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark

In typesetting or printing (and therefore when spelling text out orally), the exclamation mark is called a screamer or bang. "Bang" is also common in computer programming slang. Less common names in publishing include "gasper" and "startler".[1]

And in C and C-like languages, you use bang to denote a negative:
if (! foo)
if (foo !=0)

Ythill, you may have "years of BBS", but it seems you have never programmed before.

Strange, because you wrote, “Bang. I’m town.” And claimed, in #648, to have omitted “vanilla” on purpose. So which is it? And why did you suggest both?

Because I was in a hurry when I wrote that.

Why don’t you explain the use of the breadcrumbs here?

Because when I decided to write this post, I realized that I did not write "vanilla townie" as I intended, but "town" by mistake. So using the simpler explanation worked just as well, since the goal was not to show how clever I am with my use of breadcrumbs, but explain that I just intended to counterclaim myself later.

I just actually stopped to explain the bang thing because you thought I had used it to breadcrumb "bomb", It was a passing comment for the sake of curiosity.

These are the two most explicit instances where ABR assumes he will be alive tomorrow, there are others that are less explicit. If he’s the doc, why would he not be dead?

ABR assumes he will be dead when he say he will hammer you, Ythill, in one of his latest messages:

I am seriously contemplating hammering Ythill-town just to force you into a decision on day 7, between Thesp and Set-scum.

ABR claims to have read the thread in two hours and sixteen minutes. Not unbelievable, but certainly quick for someone who is examining closely for clues. What’s more, he finally posts his night choices in #692, as if seeing them for the first time. But if he had read the thread, why wouldn’t he have see Claus’ #648?

Because ABR is insane. He obviously didn't read the whole thread. I have no idea what he read and what he didn't.

It’s strange then that Thesp magically becomes ABR’s secondary lynch target in #695.

You have misread #695. Read it again. He says that, if he hammered you, TheStranger would be forced to choose to choose between Setael and Thesp.

On alignment evidence alone, I believe Claus is our scum.

Interesting, that's the second time you radically change your mind this time out radically.

I'll reserve my questions for you when I finish my re-read of the game.

[Claus]

:blink: it seems I need to post faster if I want to make my re-reads known before the hammers.

Hopefully I'll be able to post some content before night comes and scum come visit my house, but if not, go town.

[Claus]

...

I just realized that this is largely pointless, since I was planning to re-read Ythill and ythill is already dead, he will soon be cardflipped.

If the game is not over, it will be a Thesp-TheStranger-Setael finalle tomorrow. I'm fairly sure that setael is our last scum. This is because:

Thesp - has been violently bussing his scumpartners without the need to do it. He could have put the rope very easily on S2 and/or Lowell before Thok and RW died. So if he is scum, he deserves the win. I don't think he is, though.

The Stranger - has been violently attacked by Thok and RW. This goes beyond bussing for me. So he is probably not scum. I'll make a last read of D3, D4 and D5 to check that, but I'm pretty sure of this. His claim as a bullet proof was also unneeded from the POV of scum.

So yeah, if the game is not over, just hang seta tomorrow.

Go town!

[Claus]

Seta, TheStranger, and you hammered, Thesp. Seta voted a whiiiiiiile ago, and TS voted two pages back.

[Claus]

You know, among my finished games on MS, I was doc in a third of them. What are the odds?

Bah, go town!

[Claus]

I can't help but feel this contributed in some way to the 'clearing' of someone2. It just hadn't occurred to me that everyone would look straight to the inactive when there was no kill.

If it makes you feel better, I never took that into consideration.

===

I was not suspicious of Seta until my last day, when I began my re-read. When I began re-reading the game, it was clear to me that Thesp and TS were town. Ythills actions that day were all that were separating me from a seta vote.

However, Seta, you played a very good game. I only got to you as scum by a elimination process. I feel that you couldn't have escaped this endgame. You could have tried a no kill (I would suggest a no-lynch), or you could have hammered me yesterday, killed thesp, and hoped to turn TS against Ythill. But all these were shaky options.

Albert, that post of yours does deserve wikification

Good game everyone, I'll post more later.