Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Fat_Tony]

As 'honest' as you think it could sound ecto... it still sounds scummier than high hell.

Its a blatant statement that TNE is fingerpointing and not using logic for his cases.

QFFT. Yes, the second F is a bad word.

All of you who didn't like my post 169 shouldn't be too enthusiastic about Battousai's 377 either.

To me this one really feels like a search for ending the day by narrowing down the lynch field.

@ RangeroftheNorth: I know you've asked me for my present suspects and I will give them to you, but I haven't had the time to take notes the last pages and will do a reread this weak and get up to date again.

For the time being:

Un-FoS: RangeroftheNorth
Unvote: Tamuz

Thes un-doings are not to be considered that I am not suspicious of them (they might get fos:ed and voted after my reread) but I don't want my votes and fos:es to cause any problems the coming day/s if things get rolling (seems unlikely considering the present day speed of the game, but we are getting closer to a deadline).

I agree with Johoohno re: Battousai's 377. Still doesn't excuse 169, though, and at least Battousai's post comes at a time where a deadline is in the foreseeable future, rather than page 7. A good point, nonetheless, and one which should NOT be ignored, even on the back of 169.

I look forward to your promised analysis, Johoohno.

why is tne not dead?

Because you keep making posts like that. For the record, even on the back of things like this, I would be VERY SLIGHTLY more comfortable with a TNE lynch than a RC lynch. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be perfectly happy to get rid of someone whose posts are so unconstructive from a town POV.

Yay. Now pick somebody to vote for.....

Easy, Chewie. Let's let him catch up and make a REASONED accusation, rather than pushing him into doing what TNE does. I don't like this post, for that reason.

Re: Jester's 393.

I must have assimilated that phrase into my mind when I read it without really realising it. Quite worrying as SlySly makes me nervous sometimes. You have to agree though, Blackberry's playstyle was, for want of a similar term, divisive. Can you think of a better word (besides awful, natch ) And as for what you said about not envying my replacing Blackberry... me either.

I agree with you on ROTN's post. You have a very artful way of cutting through the bullshit, and I like that.

Ooh, and now 394: Quite a wall of text, this:

Agree with you re: Ecto.

I'm comfortable with your FoS on me. Like I say, Blackberry's play basically leaves me f**ked regardless of my alignment, and I'll be astonished if I'm alive past D2. All very WIFOM-y, and I do apologise

I'm definitely reading ROTN as town. If he's scum, he is the best player on this site.

Your post on RC is insightful. Like I have said, I'm marginally more comfortable with a TNE lynch than an RC lynch because I get this weird vibe off RC that he's just trying to be antagonistic, rather than actually being scum. I can't believe how awful his play is if he's town. Jester is a decent call, but we already agreed not to speculate overly on game setup just yet.

I'm getting bored of agreeing with you. Suffice to say that your reads, by and large, are very well-explained versions of what I'm thinking, except for TNE. I just can't get over the idea that he is scum.

---

There seems to be a lot of meta stating that this is just how RC behaves D1. This worries me. I am very very fidgety about being party to a D1 mislynch if I can avoid it, and since I have a strong inkling towards TNE and an increasingly strong feeling towards Johoohno, (thanks to Jester picking out ROTN's take on him and elaborating), I think I'm going to have to do something which makes me very sad, and

Unvote

RC.

I can only hope that the meta-read from Tamuz and, to a lesser extent, Battousai is correct.

I suppose I should vote now. Looking at the votecount, it seems that two of the guys I have as being most pro-town (ROTN, Jester) are in favour of Johoohno to go, and to be honest I am feeling more and more comfortable with that as time passes. A vote on TNE isn't going to make much difference right now, even though I hate his play. However, if I jump from the RC-wagon, I fear that this pretty much nails Johoohno down for a D1 lynch, unless Earwig and Johoohno both wind up on the RCwagon, which I'm increasingly less comfortable with. Ugh, this is a bad spot to be in.

I think my hand is forced somewhat by circumstance - I'm going to have to

vote: Johoohno

. My reasons are that you seem scummier and scummier as time passes, and I agree with ROTN and Jester's analysis on you. If there was a reasonable chance of getting a TNE-wagon going, I'd be on it in a flash. There isn't and so I'm taking what I believe to be the next-safest option. To be honest, though, I'm a bit twitchy about the whole darn thing.

Clarification for Tar :

Unvote, vote: Johoohno

. FoS remains on TNE.

[Ectomancer]

Yay. Now pick somebody to vote for.....

Easy, Chewie. Let's let him catch up and make a REASONED accusation, rather than pushing him into doing what TNE does. I don't like this post, for that reason.

Catch up? You've gotta be fucking kidding me. He was prodded for being a useless lurker. He's been in this game since Day 1. There is no "catching up" for him to do. The only thing for him to do is participate or request a replacement.
"Let's let him catch up", give me a fucking break.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'd really like to hear the posts that both Johoohno and Earwig have promised us. They are both near the top of my list, and it would be nice to hear something from either of them.

[SlySly]

Fat Tony,

Sure is convenient that you jump off of your partners' lynch when he hits L-1. I pretty much expected as much. You attempt at distancing yourself from RC by voting him didn't go unnoticed, nor was it effective.

[SlySly]

Excuse me, I thought he was at L-1. He was only at L-2 it seems.

You jumped of one spot sooner than I thought you would.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that obviously defending your scum partner from the most innocuous attacks would be a truly idiotic tactic for scum. Doing so over and over again, even after it had been pointed out in the past would require a vast, nearly amazing level of stupidity.

Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that consistently defending one player is also horrendously bad play as town. A couple of roles might have a reason to defend someone else, but it would still be a truly idiotic choice.

Doing something that would be idiotic if you were pro-town, and would idiotic if you were scum doesn't prove that you're scum. It just proves that you're an idiot.

RC isn't a newbie who might not know better than to attempt to defend his scum partner. He's been around long enough that he should know that consistently defending someone else creates scum partner suspicions. Doing so would be just as bad play for scum as it would be for townies.

I'll admit that RC has been playing in a way that doesn't benefit the town, and that makes him worthless. It doesn't necessarily make him harmful, however.

[Nyktorion]

Nyktorion. My initial read on you was townie, and it still pretty much is. You've been consistent in your attacks on J and RC, though you were a little quick to join the TNE band-wagon. Said you didn't believe TNE was a VI (268), said that you didn't find BB's "scattergunning" all that scummy (367). You seem to be pretty focused on J, RC, and BB, and I mostly am too, so I guess that's OK. I still mostly read you as a townie.

When I first saw the forming wagon against TNE, I honestly did not really know what to think of it. I saw the points stated against TNE, but I was unsure whether they were significant enough to override my growing antipathy against RC, and whether these points were actually making him that scummy. While considering how much sense TNE's play would have made from a town or scum perspective, I then realized the logical inconcsistency in his post, and that was what made the final decision for me. This is also reflected in the post where I attacked him first (#254): If you look back, you will see that I was starting my attack by repeating the already mentioned points in a rather hesitant way. However, only when I came to pointing out the logical mistake in his excuse, I became a lot more offensive towards him - and I believe that that reason justified the attack.

I remain with my point that BB's scattergunning is not that scummy. In particular on D1, as long as you have not found a sufficiently strong indication of scummyness anywhere, this seems fine. I would even say that I was scattergunning myself in the beginning. I switched votes and FOSes in 7 out of my first 10 posts in this game. This lasted until I found a lead that was worthy enough to warrant keeping my vote in place for a longer time.

There is one point I don't understand in your post: what is a VI?

[Rosso Carne]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that obviously defending your scum partner from the most innocuous attacks would be a truly idiotic tactic for scum. Doing so over and over again, even after it had been pointed out in the past would require a vast, nearly amazing level of stupidity.

Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that consistently defending one player is also horrendously bad play as town. A couple of roles might have a reason to defend someone else, but it would still be a truly idiotic choice.

Doing something that would be idiotic if you were pro-town, and would idiotic if you were scum doesn't prove that you're scum. It just proves that you're an idiot.

RC isn't a newbie who might not know better than to attempt to defend his scum partner. He's been around long enough that he should know that consistently defending someone else creates scum partner suspicions. Doing so would be just as bad play for scum as it would be for townies.

I'll admit that RC has been playing in a way that doesn't benefit the town, and that makes him worthless. It doesn't necessarily make him harmful, however.

if berry and i were scum, hed be dead by nw.

[Tarhalindur]

Regardless of any sarcastic intent, Fat_Tony's post 400 has gained the appreciation of the Mod. -Tar

Thirty-Eighth Vote Count

Rosso Carne (5) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly, Ectomancer
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (4) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai, Jester, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)

Not Voting (2) - Earwig, Johoohno

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Jester
Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (3) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth, Jester
ryan (1) - Jester
thenextepisode (1) - Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (2) - Nyktorion, Jester

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6);

THIS IS APPROXIMATELY 7 DAYS FROM TODAY

[Rosso Carne]

unvote, vote fat_tony

that post 400 is absoltely scummy in the way it treads water around the dead bodies you want to kill.

[Fat_Tony]

unvote, vote fat_tony

that post 400 is absoltely scummy in the way it treads water around the dead bodies you want to kill.

I'm not entirely sure I have a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the vote, though

Fat Tony,

Sure is convenient that you jump off of your partners' lynch when he hits L-

2

. You jumped of one spot sooner than I thought you would. You attempt at distancing yourself from RC by voting him didn't go unnoticed, nor was it effective.

Would you prefer I got back on? Or would that be OMGUS? Is RC just distancing himself from me now? Just some questions.

I got off the RC wagon due to the points that ROTN raised and Jester highlighted against Johoohno. I think, increasingly, that RC is just playing town in an incredibly anti-town manner. Right now I have TNE down as scum, Johoohno down as scum, and one other. It wouldn't shock me if it was you. But then, it wouldn't shock me if it was RC, or earwig, or anybody, to be honest. So now we know where I stand. And we know you don't like me. Who else don't you like?

[Johoohno]

Okay, I’ve finished my major reread (and it took quite some time and effort). I scrapped all my old votes and began taking new ones and it gave me a lot. I will present my suspects, but first I would like to address Jester’s accusations:

Put a vote on Tamuz in post 7, and didn't take it off until post 386!

I don’t switch my votes very often in any of my games (Newbie 501, Newbie 543, Newbie 547). This time I let the vote remain even after the random voting since I felt Tamuz was scummy, and I actually still believe that he is just that.

says "trying to point out townies is a gift to the mafia" (349), which is just ridiculous. Like the mafia don't know who the townies are.

Well the Maffias don’t know who most people find townish unless we say that, and killing off someone whom most people find likely to be town is often a good move for scum’s night action. It will also help them find people that will be blamed if a certain person is night killed.

Asked for everyone to post a scum list, but didn't have one himself, then when pressured for one, said he'd have to do a re-read to come up with it.

Well, it’s the truth, I have had the same people on my scum list all along since my post 169. However I wanted to go back and see past actions in a new perspective to see if my suspicions remain (which you will notice below that most of them do).

Here comes my list of suspects (scummiest first)

SlySly:

• In the beginning SlySly seems to be a bit uninterested or relaxed (post like 39 and 45 don’t give much information and posts 88 and 110 are dull and slow). But all of a sudden SlySly’s game improve a lot (from post 122 and onwards). Seems to me to be a change of strategy.
• In the BB/Rosso/ryan debacle SlySly seems to search for the easiest lynch and spreading distrust and uncertainty. In post 125 we can see that he has joined the theory train. In post 168 he supports the scum connection between ryan and Rosso Carne. In post 230 he sees a scum pairing in Rosso Carne and Blackberry.
• In post 264 he seem to think thenextepisode will go down and supports that lynch with a vote (#4 of the votes on TNE).
• When TNE begs for his life and claims newbness and Rosso Carne states he’s satisfied with voting off TNE SlySly fall back to his beginning posting content and unvotes only due to Rosso leaving his vote on TNE (post 291). He says there that he wants to reread and think things over but doesn’t return on the issue but continues to hop on when someone is being attacked/voted by more players (Nyktorion votes Rosso in 313 and SlySly is right behind in 316 as an example).
• I also noticed that SlySly has stayed off of me, perhaps that is because I early on was suspicious of him and doesn’t want me to investigate further.

Tamuz:

• Tamuz (and Dean Harper) was the first ones to post (4) only minutes after the mod started the game. That MIGHT be an indication that mafia had talked things through and sent in their confirmations waiting for the game to start. (I know it would be more valid if I also saw Dean Harper/RangeroftheNorth as a possible scum partner, which I don’t at the moment.)
• Seems to post only to appear active (post 84, 120 and 325) and sometimes it’s just about wordings (288).
• As I’ve said before he also wonders about the FoS-counts (post 94 which I talked about in post 202).
• In post 191 RangeroftheNorth votes for me and Tamuz quickly shifts to me too (post 193 and 197) perhaps seeing me as a wagon that’ll build up quickly.
• Post 199 is a fishy post where he tries to give himself airs to avoid reading the game closely and focus on staying alive. Someone else has already said this, the point is not, for an individual townie, to stay alive (unless that would benefit the town).
• He is also against a Rosso Carne lynch 249 and asks for Nyktorion and Jester’s reason for said lynch. Here I see two possible things. Perhaps he wants to lift up this issue once more with the help of two, at that time, very townish players to come to a lynch (seeing their reasons and then agreeing with them). It could also be that they are scum pairs (Rosso and Tamuz). In this game a lot of people have connected players with one another and perhaps Tamuz feels that this one will only be one among many and won’t be picked up. The last point is in that case even more shadowed by adding more bussing issues in the thread in post 266.
• (* This last entry is only for conspiratorial fun Tamuz mentioned Battousai in post 120. He is also the one who informs the game of ryan’s ban 321. Lo’ and behold, enter Battousai 324.)

Rosso Carne:

• Rosso posts for the sake of posting (26, 33, 35, 53, 55 …). This is very different from a newbie game that he and I recently were in (Newbie 543) where he was extremely active almost all through the game. In that game he was a cop and I a vanilla townie. It ended up with a flawless victory for the town. In that game Rosso showed me that he can be active and game focused, but in this one he hasn’t acted the same way. Perhaps he is a person who enjoys playing power roles and therefore invested a lot of time and posts in that game (It would be truly idiotic because sooner or later someone will find that out, and that will really bmake meta readings on Rosso valuable). Perhaps that is the reason that he in this game is negative to all meta arguments?
• He is also willing to put pressure on a lurker 72 which is strange since he can be considered to be one himself (and also admits to in post 159)
• When he is pressured by Ectomancer for promised but nonexistent contribution (post 165) he jumps on the wagon against me (post 178). He is the first to vote me for it, but three others has already expressed grave dislike (Blackberry, Ectomancer & SlySly) so it is kind of a safe vote.
• He also takes blackberry’s side against ryan in that bickering, and I am more inclined to agree with ryan there (post 229).


All in all, I have moved down Tamuz from first to second position, and that leads me to

Vote: SlySly

[Jester]

You were a major perpetuator of the Blackberry theory water-muddying, and your attacks on people are usually laced with something insulting.

Well, Pester, when scum are being scummy, should I give them a warm fuzzy instead?

People can play this game and be nasty about it, or can remember that it's a game, and even the scum are trying to have some fun. Attack the role, not the player. Attack what the player says, don't call him names. There are times when a little hostility is a good tactic -- when you're trying to rattle someone into making a mistake, for instance. But all the time? No, I don't think that's necessary, and it certainly isn't fun for anyone except the person doing it.

2) By asking them to justify their votes, Rosso and Johoohno have a chance to defend themselves and, Rosso being experienced knows how to defend himself.

True. But he's utterly refused to do so. As to your other responses, fair enough.

Long story short, the pain is driving me to distraction and I can't focus on things very well.

Ouch. :/ Get well soon! And don't be afraid to ask for replacment if needed. Real life should come first.

I didn't, and don't feel like there is a justifiable case on RC at that point/now.

Noted. That's a risky position to take just now.

I'm getting bored of agreeing with you. Suffice to say that your reads, by and large, are very well-explained versions of what I'm thinking, except for TNE. I just can't get over the idea that he is scum.

Fair enough. I haven't completely rejected the idea; he

has

said some odd things, and there's no denying it. I just think there are scummier players in the game right now.

I think my hand is forced somewhat by circumstance - I'm going to have to vote: Johoohno. My reasons are that you seem scummier and scummier as time passes, and I agree with ROTN and Jester's analysis on you. If there was a reasonable chance of getting a TNE-wagon going, I'd be on it in a flash. There isn't and so I'm taking what I believe to be the next-safest option. To be honest, though, I'm a bit twitchy about the whole darn thing.

You know, I'd honestly much rather have you voting TNE if that's who you want to vote for. These couple of paragraphs really come off as ass-covering and a preemptive "Well, I didn't really want to, but Jester and ROTN

said

..." That's a scum-tell. If you can't come up with your own reasons to vote for Johoohno, then don't.

"Let's let him catch up", give me a fucking break.

QFT.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that obviously defending your scum partner from the most innocuous attacks would be a truly idiotic tactic for scum. Doing so over and over again, even after it had been pointed out in the past would require a vast, nearly amazing level of stupidity.

You're not wrong. It's also the second time this game that SlySly has trotted out the old chestnut that scum defend each other. Again, I will ask if

anyone

can point me at a completed game where scum defended each other. I would like to see this mythical beast in the flesh, once, before I die. In my experience, scum either attack each other harder than anyone else, or they ignore each other.

There is one point I don't understand in your post: what is a VI?

A village idiot. Yes, I just created that wiki page. I'm amazed a page for the term didn't already exist. It's pretty common. I like the rest of your 406.

Well, it’s the truth, I have had the same people on my scum list all along since my post 169.

Gotcha! That's a lie. You said in one of your follow-up posts that your 169 "scum list"

wasn't

your list of suspects, but just a list of people who had votes up to that point. Can't remember the post number, but I'm gonna find it. My vote on you is now locked and I summarily ignore and dismiss the remainder of your post unless your innocence is proved upon your death.

Courtesy section for the mod :

Un-FOS: ryan/Battousai

.

[Jester]

Johoohno's Post 189:

I see that my post 169 Has been misunderstood or (consciously interpreted in a chosen way?).

a) The five names on the list are the same five that has been on the latest mod vote counts.
b) My cases on Earwig, Tamuz and Slysly shouldn't be something new to you since I mentioned them in post 114.

I invite everyone to judge for themselves.

[SlySly]

SlySly:

• In the beginning SlySly seems to be a bit uninterested or relaxed (post like 39 and 45 don’t give much information and posts 88 and 110 are dull and slow). But all of a sudden SlySly’s game improve a lot (from post 122 and onwards). Seems to me to be a change of strategy.

There is a simple explanation for this. I was more involved in another game at the beginning. I was recently lynched which gives me more time for this game.

Do a little meta on my play and you will see that I am frequently accused of being scum because I am by nature a more blunt than most. It seems to me that alot of veteran players here often mistake this trait of mine as being a scumtell.

The town has no reason to be concerned by my existence.

And you are right, I have stayed off of you for the most part. I think maybe the frequent defenses between RC and BB just had me to a point where I was satified that both were scummy and a lynch of either would be a lynch I would be in support of. But since you brought it up and with all the attention on you now, I think maybe I should do a OMGUS reread on you and see if you may be scimmier than I first suspected. I do recall at least one very scummy post from you. IGMEOY.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People can play this game and be nasty about it, or can remember that it's a game, and even the scum are trying to have some fun. Attack the role, not the player. Attack what the player says, don't call him names. There are times when a little hostility is a good tactic -- when you're trying to rattle someone into making a mistake, for instance. But all the time? No, I don't think that's necessary, and it certainly isn't fun for anyone except the person doing it.

You need a little cheese to go with that whine? It has been a few games since I have had to call the WAAAHMBULANCE on someone!!!

You play your game and I will play mine.

[Fat_Tony]

Jester - fair enough, but when my reasons are the same as yours, what am I supposed to say? It's quicker and easier to just say it's the same reason as you.

And after you've basically nailed him on his 169/189/411 contradictions, I think you're also right in saying Johoohno is scummier than TNE now. Although I must admit, I like his going after SlySly. Shame it's not the right person doing it.

Anyway, I'm happy with my vote where it is, even if SlySly thinks it should have stayed on RC and you think it should be on TNE.

[Johoohno]

@ Jester: If you take a closer look at my now famous/infamous 169 you see that the first part is a list of people with votes and then in the text below the list I summarize who I would prefer voting for (a.k.a. a scum list!).

[Jester]

You need a little cheese to go with that whine? It has been a few games since I have had to call the WAAAHMBULANCE on someone!!!

Wow. That's really mature. Would you like a balloon animal, or maybe a 5-pack of crayons?

[Tarhalindur]

Thirty-Ninth Vote Count

Rosso Carne (3) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly, Ectomancer
SlySly (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (5) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai, Jester, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)

Not Voting (1) - Earwig

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Jester
Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (3) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth, Jester
thenextepisode (1) - Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (2) - Nyktorion, Jester

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6);

THIS IS APPROXIMATELY 6 DAYS FROM TODAY

[Tarhalindur]

24 hours, no posting? Unacceptable. I am issuing a MASS PROD. All players who fail to post by deadline will be replaced.

Fortieth Vote Count

Rosso Carne (5) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly, Ectomancer, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
SlySly (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (5) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai, Jester

Not Voting (1) - Earwig

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Jester
Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (3) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth, Jester
thenextepisode (1) - Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (2) - Nyktorion, Jester

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6);

THIS IS APPROXIMATELY 5 DAYS FROM TODAY

[Fat_Tony]

/picks up prod.

/points out that RC is voting for me now

[Ectomancer]

We still have 5 days.

Rosso, why should I move my vote off you, and on to Johoono? Please do not use the "we need a lynch" and "no lynch is bad" excuses.

[Ectomancer]

Hmm, vote count is also wrong. I count 4 people on Rosso.

[Tamuz]

Tamuz:

• Tamuz (and Dean Harper) was the first ones to post (4) only minutes after the mod started the game. That MIGHT be an indication that mafia had talked things through and sent in their confirmations waiting for the game to start. (I know it would be more valid if I also saw Dean Harper/RangeroftheNorth as a possible scum partner, which I don’t at the moment.)
• Seems to post only to appear active (post 84, 120 and 325) and sometimes it’s just about wordings (288).
• As I’ve said before he also wonders about the FoS-counts (post 94 which I talked about in post 202).
• In post 191 RangeroftheNorth votes for me and Tamuz quickly shifts to me too (post 193 and 197) perhaps seeing me as a wagon that’ll build up quickly.
• Post 199 is a fishy post where he tries to give himself airs to avoid reading the game closely and focus on staying alive. Someone else has already said this, the point is not, for an individual townie, to stay alive (unless that would benefit the town).
• He is also against a Rosso Carne lynch 249 and asks for Nyktorion and Jester’s reason for said lynch. Here I see two possible things. Perhaps he wants to lift up this issue once more with the help of two, at that time, very townish players to come to a lynch (seeing their reasons and then agreeing with them). It could also be that they are scum pairs (Rosso and Tamuz). In this game a lot of people have connected players with one another and perhaps Tamuz feels that this one will only be one among many and won’t be picked up. The last point is in that case even more shadowed by adding more bussing issues in the thread in post 266.
• (* This last entry is only for conspiratorial fun Tamuz mentioned Battousai in post 120. He is also the one who informs the game of ryan’s ban 321. Lo’ and behold, enter Battousai 324.)


All in all, I have moved down Tamuz from first to second position, and that leads me to...

Okay... so what in there really makes me scummy.

The Battousai thing only SlySly and battousai should understand. I'm still unhappy about a game we were in with Battousai, and I had more than half a mind to quit this game when I saw Battousai replacing in. And lord knows that if I was a vig I would kill Battousai right now for the town's sake.

Anyway, beyond your grassy knoll, I don't see how any of your points make me scummy let alone the second scummiest.
Lets rephrase:
1. Horrible

time based meta

with someone who you think isn't scum with me.
2. Floppy point with subjective wording

"seems"

3. Not reading the rules. OMG that makes me scum!
4. Agreeing with reasonable rhetoric and applying pressure. (this one I'll give you, it can seem scummy) BUT you add motive of "perhaps seeing me as a wagon that'll build up quickly. Psshhhhhh if you go that far out of your way to dish motives onto me to call me scum, I call this point weak at worst. On top of that you say "Perhaps", you aren't even sure of yourself to call me out. None of this weak language. Just say it if you think its the truth. "I think Tamuz is doing this because he want to build a quick wagon on me". Scum use weak words like Seems and Perhaps. You are scum. I am voting for you.
5. See frustration from Battousai SlySly game. And I know that me staying alive would be cool. I know my role, I know my win condition is to get rid of dem rascal mafiates. I don't know anyone elses. And in a MM game where powerroles are minute at best who is there to sacrifice myself for as a target? Another vanilla? Hell yeah I want to stay alive
6. I don't even understand this point. HOW does this make me scummy. I ask people to qualify themselves in a point where the game was stagnating. And personally Jester is not Townish to me. The second half of your point 6 is a dead ramble.

Soo.... wanna spew less formatted and '''''''''''documented'''''''''' crap and actually make real points and say something.


PERHAPS it MIGHT SEEM that you weren't scum then?

[Ectomancer]

The Battousai thing only SlySly and battousai should understand. I'm still unhappy about a game we were in with Battousai, and I had more than half a mind to quit this game when I saw Battousai replacing in. And lord knows that if I was a vig I would kill Battousai right now for the town's sake.

While I appreciate the sentiment, by your own words, do not convince yourself that you would do it for town. You apparently have a meta-problem with him and would be doing it for your own ends. That sucks for town, because now we have to take everything you say with that thought in the back of our mind("Is he really thinking Battousai is scum, or is this personal?")

Though I appreciate your candor, once again, that bias really sucks.