He's lurking before the game even started! Die scum die![/b]
Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!
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TheSweatpantsNinja Mafia Scum
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Shrug. Shanba's attack on me is based on me calling for a policy lynch. Of course, I didn't actually do that. I just said I wasn't sure whether or not we should lynch DS, but I wanted to (my exact words were "on principle," which I suppose could be construed as suggesting a policy, but that's not what I intended). "Policy lynch" were jdodge's words, not mine. Take out the word "policy" from that statement and simply answer the question "Do you think lynching DS is a good idea?" Do you truly think that's an inherently scummy question to ask? Since 'policy' was a word jdodge put into my mouth, it seems a little unfair to hold me accountable over it.-
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That is pretty much what I said. What I meant, and perhaps should have made more explicit, was that we should either lynch DS today or move on with the discussion, because at the time there was no other discussion. I suppose we've chosen the move-on option, which is fine. I'd rather it not have moved on to me, but at least we aren't still discussing the player who I concede I can't get any read on, because he's being intentionally useless.shanba wrote: Here is what he says here:
1) He doesn't know what to do about DS, whether he should be ignored or lynched
2)He can't get any read on DS
3)Maybe DS is deliberately trying to stop us getting a read on him
4)If that's the case, he maybe should be lynched on principle
Shanba and phate are lining on opposite sides of the debate as rosswilliam. I don't find any of them terribly scummy. I don't particularly suspect skitzer either, but in my own defense, I will point out that I'm not the only one refusing to take a position. I do suspect the lurkers. Perhaps its just an effect of the holidays, but only about half the players are really discussing the game.-
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No one had said anything substantive for five days, and I hadn't for over a week. Running the substantial risk of pulling a DS, I did something slightly unusual in the hopes of sparking discussion. But actually, while I appreciate you defending me, ross, your play has seemed just a little off to me. You'retoofriendly for someone who is ostensibly scumhunting. And you seemed a little too confident that I was town.
Oh, and:rosswilliam wrote: kinda makes me think your trying to start a bandwagonOf courseI'm trying to start a bandwagon. What do you hope your votes accomplish?-
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It might have blown over before. I hope it doesn't now.rosswilliam wrote:to all the people who are voting for me, i think it says something to my innocence that I'm still here posting and defending myself when it would be so gosh-darn easy for to slip into lurking and let the whole thing blow other.-
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That's not terribly inaccurate. Whatever desire I had to lynch him was based on him being anti-town, which is not necessarily the same thing. . . but its a bit of a jump to both say that I was refusing to take a position on a ds lynch (which, admittedly, I kind of wasn't) and also saying we ought to lynch him whether or not he was scum or town.neko wrote: Besides the policy lynch(again, not my words)idea (which doesn't seem like a very pro-town idea), it shows that TSN wants to hear the general opinion on DS before casting his own judgment. It sounds like he wants to go with the flow (Shanba spoke about this quite a bit already).
This sounds vaguely like an argument for a lynch regardless of whether he's town or scum because he's annoying. Please correct me if I've misinterpreted this.
As for the rosswilliam vote: I was being a little facetious with that line. I was going to vote for him, then noticed I actually already was because he replaced for someone I was voting for. This amused me a little. You don't have any comment on me then explaining my vote a whole three posts later.
And when five players have posted in two weeks, it might be time to take unusual steps to get the game moving. But as we're getting replacements in, I'll say I still support a ross lynch. Anything else?-
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False.shanba wrote: Korlash is simply annoyed that I already found his partner, and is running damage control to try and make sure I go down too.
Discuss.
Korlash, I can assure you, the village idiot is that guy's MO. Which is why I got frustrated with him, which is why I made my fence-riding "I'm not sure whether or not we should lynch him" post, which got me in trouble in the first place. But he's getting replaced, and I don't think his playing like an idiot makes him any more likely to be scum.-
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Man, this day's gone on too long. I'm getting desperate to get someone lynched. The post that really sets me off wrong about rw is:
rw wrote: to all the people who are voting for me, i think it says something to my innocence that I'm still here posting and defending myself when it would be so gosh-darn easy for to slip into lurking and let the whole thing blow other.-
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Could have been a newbie play from melodyman too, but its one I find more disturbing than the no-lynch vote. I've never seen someone suggest no-lynch and not get voted, so it doesn't seem like a very smart play out of rw.shanba wrote: Do you think it was a scummy play or a newbie play from melodyman? Why does the no-lynch vote have to be a brilliant scum gambit?-
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justin wrote: This was in response to Ross Williams telling TSpN it might seem scummy to start a bandwagon based on little information. But the thing is, TSpN wasn’t the first one on this wagon. It would have seemed pointing that out might have been a more appropriate response, but it also may be that, responding to Ross Williams, TSpN simply accepted what RW had posted.
I think what we have here is a definitions issue. I think of "starting a bandwagon" as being the second vote on a wagon.
So TSpN responds to this post when it was made, doesn’t include it as part of the reason for his suspicions when asked why he is suspicious of RossWilliams, then puts it forth as what bothers him the most about RossWilliams much later. This looks less like scum hunting than victim hunting to me. As a matter of fact, that’s what most of TSpN’s behavior strikes me as, up to and including his current vote on MelodyMan.
Erm, what? So I said a post was scummy, then later called it out as being scummy again, and in between had a post about that player that didn't mention it specifically? Honestly, how is that a scumtell? What's my scum angle on that play? Sounds like, if anything, you're getting me on laziness because I didn't bother quoting it specifically in the middle post. I'll agree its a lazytell, but I hardly think that's exclusive to scum.-
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Pressuring lurkers is good, but pressuring lurkers will only work if you are clearly willing to lynch them.
Also, I don't mean lurkers as in players who are completely absent, but rather players who aren't contributing, which pretty well defines jdodge's play.
And why don't you ask crub to elaborate?-
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The events of Day 1 confuse me. We had two townies on the stand, me and melodyman, (which I know you all can't know that, but bear with me), and out of nowhere, a third bandwagon pops up on jdodge. I'm not sure if this was borne out of town dissatisfaction with the available choices, or potential scum bussing with the expectation that jdodge wouldn't be lynched. . . in any case, I would not oppose another jdodge wagon.neko wrote: skitzer, JDodge, TSN, care to share your thoughts?
Vote jdodge.-
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Viva la revolucion!shanba wrote: So your theory is that a faction of townies, revolted by the heinous lynchwagons set forth by the unholy scum, broke free of the repression and founded a new wagon in daylight on scum?
It seems improbable that it was a scum-driven wagon, in any case. Which doesn't mean that jdodge is scum, but its not like his play's been particularly pro-town, you know what I'm saying?
Of course, you (shanba) think I'm scum, so your mileage may vary.-
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There's certainly a middle ground in which I would prefer to get a reason why to agree. I don't see why you would not want to give a reason. I don't see why it makes you particularly scummy, as I can't really fathom why scum would not want to give reasons either.Crub wrote:If you disagree, fair enough, if you think that makes me scum, please explain.-
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I have to say, if someone accused me, and refused to give any reasons, I'd probably get a little OMGUSy myself. I don't think its particularlyscummynot to, if only because I can't figure out any particular reason why scum would be any more likely to pursue the play than town, but its certainly not very helpful.-
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There was one person voting crub. Do you have an issue with crub's play? Do you really find my 'opportunistic' play more anti-town than his?justin wrote: No problem. I mean day one first wanting to lynch Disciple Slayer on principle when he was acting badly, but only “sort of”, in a way that signaled it would be easy for your vote to move that way while striving to expose yourself as little as possible.
Disciple Slayer, a seemingly easy, not convincingly scummy target. And as we saw later, when MelodyMan was lynched, not actually scum.
This was discussed Day 1 too, and while I wasn't being terribly committed about it, the point was that we either needed to decided that ds' play was worth lynching or move on.
Ross Williams. A better suspect here, but once again one who seemed unable to mount a proper defense on his behalf and who you rode in a fashion that looked to me (you can check my previous post from day one on this) more like running down the sick antelope than trying to tackle a wolf.
Moving back to MelodyMan when it was clear the Ross Williams wagon had stalled. Finding a newbie getting easily spooked somehow more sinister than all of Ross Williams activities combined.Well, he replaced ds. That was a factor, too.
That makes it seem very clear the Ross Williams vote was not one of conviction but just an easy target to aim at. You found an easier target and with flimsy reasoning moved your vote.
Put the rw vote in context. At the time, there were about five players actually playing the game. To some degree, I was just trying to make noise. And srsly, a Day 1 vote without conviction? That's unheard of!
Moving your vote to JDodge, the wagon on whom you had earlier questioned. Some justification here in that you said you were doing so to save yourself, but even as you move your vote you make a call for others to vote MelodyMan so you can move your vote back.
And why would that be scummy? My lynch preference, in order, went MM, jdodge, me. So I arranged my voting in such a way that I would not get lynched, which required moving my vote to jdodge, but when my vote could be better utilized on MM, I moved it back.
Day Two, you wake up and vote JDodge, even after being confronted with the results of a lurker lynch, even after questioning the wagon on JDodge on day one before joining it to save yourself.
We weren't voting mm because he was lurking. He started lurking when we started voting him. And besides, I really have no problem with lurker lynches Day 1.
You change from voting JDodge saying:
TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:
I don't have such a strong case on jdodge that I'm not willing to switch.
You had, precisely, no case at all, but on the other hand quite a few people had voted JDodge at the end of yesterday. Now there were people voting Crub.-
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Oops, you're right, there were two people voting you. Sorry about that.
And OMGUS much?
I mean it was an early Day 1 vote, so it wasn't as, uh, convicted, as, say, my crub vote is now. I thought rw was the scummiest player when I voted him, but then as time went on, I began to be less convinced of it, and the whole no-lynch thing was (WIFOM, I know) sort of a stupid suggestion for scum to make. So when melodyman came in and bandwagoned him, I thought his play + DS play was a better place for my vote.Are you now agreeing that your day one vote on Ross Williams was without conviction?
If so, in what way was it lacking conviction?-
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