Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[millar13]

/confirm

[millar13]

Mod enough to start?

[millar13]

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

[millar13]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

[millar13]

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

And the thing wrong with that is?

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

[millar13]

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.

As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment

Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"

And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.

What makes me think your even more scummy is this earlier post.

Firestarter:
"afatchick & Strangercoug are both obv-scum.

Time I got me a wagon together!!

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick"

Town players don't look to start or join wagon so early on in a game, unless they are genuinely sure. For this reason I think that Battousai in fact should not have been under my watch and that in fact you should be instead.

FOS: Firestarter

[millar13]

If you read Post 42 Sajin you would have noticed, that I no longer FOS Battousai and instead I am looking at Firestarter in stead

And three people have put pressure on me so far, not including you...so I think you need to check your facts first and then come back to me.

I won't confirm and actually place my vote, until I am sure I that the person I am voting for appears the most scum looking. At the moment, I have suspicions but not hard fact

[millar13]

I don't want to vote now...because the "random stage" has stopped, and we are now very much past morning tea and gone into the seriousness of Day 1. Votes should be value not thrown around with no real reason.

And yeah I do fear of being suspected being scummy, but then again must people do tend to feel that way now and again. I just want to help the town bring the scum down to its knees.

[millar13]

Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

[millar13]

Firestarter is whom Post 50 refers too.

[millar13]

Firestarter:
"May I ask you a question, I cant be bothered going to check...

How many games have you played here/completed?"

So far I have been in ten games that are now finished, and I think I am in six (dead/alive) that are still going on now.

Strangecoug:
Wait a minute—shoot me if I know why this from post #42 blew past me.

millar13 wrote:
Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.

As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment

Quote:
Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"


And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.


How can you simultaneously think that I'm both townie playing too aggressively and Firestarter's scumbuddy? I am sorry, but even if the argument on whether you or Battousai was trying to employ tactics in the random voting stage is complete trivia, your logical fail is giving me good reason to leave my vote where it is.

And I still think you should be bandwagoned. You're cracking under pressure. Town should not be doing that. "

I clearly made an error...I meant to say that Firestarter was a scum member (not scum partner) I have no reason to beleive that yourself (Strangecoug) is actually aligned with that.

Am I cracking under pressure? Not that I noticed.

And believe it or not Firestarer comment in Post 49, actually indicate what i feel about wagon's in the early game...even if I am convinced he is the most likely scum member at the moment. Although, not enough active players have sprouted to give a fully loaded judgement.

Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison. With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

[millar13]

Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison.

With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

The bolded part....
Bandwagons, as Ive already stated are good for town, and in the random stage, they hardly gather momentum, unless, again as Ive already stated, a scumbag makes a complete fuck-up on their part.
Your also more wrong than right stating a townie led bandwagon is merely used for town to easy-lynch someone, unless the whole cast of the game is made up of noobs.

I find it hilarious that you already are discounting SC as scum, and me as town.

With so little info available already from those contributing, your statements are pretty darn "certain" right now.

FOS: millar13

Firestater if you actually go through what I said, you will not notice I I actually said; that out of those players that have actually played this game so far you have come off looking like you the player with the possible characteristics of scum. In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.

"Certain" i don't think is a word I have really placed on anyway so far of being scum. And I don't feel that way at all. Although, I do feel you

FOS

is a predicatable defensive mechanism

[millar13]

Also in terms of bandwagons. I do agree that they can be good for the town.
However, not so in Day 1.
They can really be crucial, once a scum member is dead otherwise they are often scum controlled even though it seems as if the town is making the power play.

[millar13]

I'm not saying I played with you a number of times. I am just saying you came off loooking like generic town players; whom I have player with a number of times.

[millar13]

I'm not saying I played with you a number of times. I am just saying you came off loooking like generic town players; whom I have player with a number of times.

Once again, you

REALLY

need to watch what you're saying. I thought that you meant I was playing as I specifically, rather than your standard everyday scummer, do as town. The more you blunder your way through this game, the less likely I'll think you're town.

I am not perfect, and so I make mistakes. Doesn't help that two of my fingers are broken. If I make mistakes, I will continue you to correct them.

Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

[millar13]

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

[millar13]

Typing the wrong word is a scum-tell.
Well lah dee dah...I must be scum then.

Mhmmmm FireStarter you just more and more scummy, as you looking for the smallest of things to blow out of proportion, so you can "justify" your vote on me oncemore.

I'm not giving you the satifisfaction of voting for you yet though.

[millar13]

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Minor FoS: Firestarter

. Don't be so quick to retract a vote.

Good point considering, it has just been my name vote unvote, vote unvote. Zzzz

[millar13]

SC looks town to me.
Whilst Pac doesn't give off anything to me.

My reason for Fire have already been given, but as yet I still don't actually have a vote out.

[millar13]

At the moment I have only belive that these four players (including myself) have brought anything really solid to the game:

-Strangecoug
-Millar13
-Battousai
-FireStarter

the rest seem to be either Active Lurking, with the odd "I am still here post" or just off the radar completly. At the moment null tells is ultimatley all I have been given so far, and quite often in games it is only the null tells and little things that the mafia actually give away. Sometimes you have to be a little OTT and see the impossible as possible.

[millar13]

Only saw Post 85, after I post 86.

That is actually a really good point Battousai. Maybe Strangecoug doesn't think the "generic townie mould" as I previously thought. Mhmmmm *literally rubbing my chin*

[millar13]

A vote is sacred.

People who vote, unvote, vote and unvote can actually be most unhelpful.
Imagine you survive to day 3 and you in total have gone through this unvote vote stage, and have either

a) Only voted for a small number of people, over and over again

or

b) Voted for every single player

How you play the game, effects how people read you. If I am more than 60% sure someone is scum, then that is when I will give my vote.

[millar13]

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

wiki-mafia-knowledge (I have none...I have never actually looked at the wiki unless via a specific link)

if you notice I said the word "ULTIMATLEY all" which means the majority, but not every single one. Dont' try and twist my words against me, because it won't work.

[millar13]

The problem with you....is without being rude "you don't seem to have the guts" to vote for me yet, even though you have in as many words confirmed you will put your vote back on me anyway.

I however, believe you look the most scummy so far. Slight difference.

[millar13]

Okay this is getting a little out of hand. First, I apologize for not posting sooner. I was waiting (yeah, lurking.. whatever you want to call it) for this argument (Millar being accused of starting seriousness when Millar accused Battousai of being serious) to actually get somewhere but that's probably not going to happen.

So instead of waiting for someone to push this crappy argument any further, I'd like to ask Millar a question or two:

@

Millar13

, should the random voting stage have ended when Battousai made a vote based on a sensical reason? If so, why does scum want to end the random voting stage with a serious vote? Also, I believe StrangerCoug asked this a couple times before but, what's really so wrong with making a serious vote? Sure, you've only seen scum do it, but why can't Town do it too? And finally, why did you choose not to participate in the random voting stage yet you say Town shouldn't feel awkward in it? What's your reason for not participating?

Q) Why didn't I take part in the random voting stage?
A) Previous experience, has shown me that people form "stand-offs" in the RVS for no reason other than random votes. For that reason, I don't think the RVS should even exist.

However it does so.

A) There is nothing wrong with town ending the RVS, I think I have since commented that I don't think Battousai is scummy.

There is nothing wrong with ending the RVS, but there is a number of way you can go about it. I just wrote it how I saw it

Sajin:
"@millar13- seriously? The reason for a few slip ups was a couple of fingers not working correctly? The mind is what writes sir. You said in the first few pages that FOSing is a defensive mechanism....yet that all you have done all game. So by your own logic, your being defensive, yes? I am however still waiting for the couple plain sight lurkers and no posters before proceeding."

I agree with you here, I am playing defensive. I don't intend to be all guns blazing until we have a complete active field of play.

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

[millar13]

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

[millar13]

Isaac:
"Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet?

If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet

, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells."

Your not the first to make that point, and I have feeling you won't be the last.

But seriously, this post says it all.

Firestarter:
"We just found millar13's scumbuddy..."

Where did that come from? The only thing that, that post actually says is that a player actually has looked at the game and seen myself as a town player and you as scum. There isn't actually anything to suggest we are connected.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy translates:

Someone else apart from millar thinks I have scum traits....I cant more than one person suspects me, lets call scumbuddy now in order to "save my skin"

That post as very scummy indeed

[millar13]

Is Post 111 all aimed at Korlash?

[millar13]

Vote: Firestarter

for post 108, OMGUS.

That along with your waiting to vote seems scummiest to me right now.

And how do you explain millar13 not even placing a vote yet?

Isaac has only looked at my posts, and turned them into something they are not.

He seems to go on meta for millar13, which is easy for a scumbuddy to summons up.
AND particularly if he's not going to look at other players meta's.
Its opportunistic at the least imo.

Ignoring millars actions in this game is extraordinarily baffling.. or scummy.

He has done nothing, but read them as they are. Either you haven't quite comprehended what you have written or you have actually slipped up along the way. Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum. How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

Vote:Firestarter

[millar13]

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

[millar13]

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.

The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

[millar13]

I'm not refusing, I am just inidicating that you case is long-running. It hasn't stopped and it still continues. If you clearly believe that a strong case doesn't already exist against you then you are clearly deluded. Your own posts are very much a key part of this case. You in many ways have proven to be your own worst enemy.

You want a full case on me?

Maybe I should make the demand on you...but that would be fickle wouldn't it?

[millar13]

Also don't you want a case from your other two accusers...or is it quite clear that their cases have actually built up from our interactions?

[millar13]

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

The likelihood is that you actually believed in our back-and-forth confrontations that with the introduction of other players I would come off looking worse, and they would put their votes on me rather than yourself. What you have to understand, is that a large amount of my case is built upon the fact that people actually see you in the same way as I do...although their views are more valuable as they are very much out-side the box and therefore provide me with a more rational view of things.

So you want a full case? Guess what you can have one, free of charge.

You start off with post (24) a

clear random vote

, one that would be expected and you are just like every other player who "chooses" to particpate in the RVS. It isn't compulsory and therefore, be not taking part really should not be seen as some sort of

issue

afatchic and Strangecoug have some sort of RVS conflict, with what is clearly a case of you vote for me, I vote you. However, this if often just playful in the RVS and doesn't actually amount to anything solid. You then for some unknown reason suggest that both of them are scum, and then unvote and

Vote afatchic

(by the time you have voted a second time, you have ended your personal random stage) and so this is just the beginning for you.

Then me and Strangecoug have some sort of situation, where he suspects me as scum and at the time I didn't quite know what to think. Once again you you jumped on a altercation and made it your business to vote against for the

third time

with no real case.

Despite this you actually seemed to be able to talk some sense with Post 49:

Firestarter:
"Hehe, Millar13, well done.

You've cracked the game, bravo...

Moreover, you've gone on to establish that a bit of pressure is scummy.

WRONG.

Pressure reveals quite alot, to ascertain who IS scummy under pressure/who IS town under pressure.
To be frank, there was no pressure at all, and your worry at appearing scummy if you had have voted is.. scummy

In the random stage no wagon will ever gather serious steam unless a scumbag does something catastrophic on their part.

So I would ask you to relax, and not get too carried away with yourself right now.

At this time, only scum can be sure of who's who, and with the little information gathered thus far, tonwies have no clue.

But pressure leads to info, and info is good for townies.

Morning tea seems to be done alright, and for this time I shall..

UNVOTE"

Then in Post 73 you vote for a

4th time

although this time it is very much for reason outside the came, or for reasons of "bollox-ology" what ever that words is actually meant to mean I do not know.

Only two posts later you have then unvoted me, and put me on MAJOR FOS. Making you undecisive but also seeming as the fact that pacman didn't actually seem to back you reason, as the reason why you felt you need to back off yourself.

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Minor FoS: Firestarter

. Don't be so quick to retract a vote.

In fact, it was the other way round..

I was too quick to place the vote.

Look back on the other page, you'll see why.

You state you were too quick to place the vote, when funnily enough this was the 2nd time you had already voted me. If it had been the first time it might have actually have made some sense, but second time is sort of suspicious.

It wasn't until page 5 however, that any real strong feeling to actually vote for you came into frutition

Then at Post 103, you vote for the

fifth time

the 3rd time you have had a vote on me and seem to back it up with the fact that more people haved posted, even if it is only one post and therefore not really enough too:

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Allow this post to actually occur. All that really happend was Rage, Korlash and Sejin surfaced for the first time (some more than others) but you didn't really take in what they said as you had already decided you were going to place your vote back on me either way.

Isaac made some good points, not all great or perfect, but some good points none the less and you didn't even challenge what he said but gave a week response of:

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

That post is convincing to anyone, and is pretty feeble at attempting what ever it was that psot was meant to accomplish.

Then Battousai voted for you...and in many ways what was said in the start of Post 111 was exactly what you had done, as you have taken yourself from small tells and null tells to something much more open and readable. It was in many ways this post, that did enough to convince me that you were worth voting for. That is all I have against you at the moment.

I am not saying I think your 100% scum, but you 60/40 at the moment in my mind.

Why I didn't give you a case straight away...simple. Because I was in the middle of writing it but also because I wanted to see your initial reaction. You are clearly someone who believes they should be in control.

[millar13]

In many ways the start was not good, but it was edited after the use of the bad language. I am not someone that really back it up, or see it as something that need to be used in these environments without good reason. I can see why you could see this as scum-play, but maybe it comes down to the fact that I couldn't believe that someone who was vanilla would actually think so highly of themselves, when in the majority of games. Mafia member have through their own realization or not shown to be "up their own arse" so too speak.

Other than that, I think my reasons to vote Firestarter are strong enough at the moment.

[millar13]

Firestarter hasn't replied...even after he set me a 2 hour deadline.
And he has been active. Hmmmmm

[millar13]

Firestarter I gave you case;

What I am not doing, is providing you data too look on and attempt to justify and attempt to correct in such a way that actually makes you look good in a better light.
The fact that you quoted me a number of times, and then you have written

Firestarter wrote:

indicates that you were either rushing or once again didn't check what you had written.

My case on you is out. And I highly doubt that my vote will chance anytime soon.

If

ANYONE ELSE

wants me to explain something I will do so, to the best of my ability. But Firestarter, you have what you wanted. Your getting nothing else off me. My mind is made up, and as of now I am now looking for those most likely to be your scum partner/s

[millar13]

Isaac:
"Also, who wants to be the third scumbuddy with me and Millar? Any takers? All you have to do is accuse Firestarter (or not find Millar obvscum) and you get a gold-star automatic scum label!"

That is so true...and the worst thing about it is that Firestarter probably doesn't even know he is doing it.

[millar13]

That actually isn't the smartest move to make to tell the truth. As I have said earlier I think your 60% scum, and not 100% scum and so agree to such a "trade off" would not actually be viable yet.

Also, what you need to realize is that, in the possible case that you aren't scum. Which I have to admit is a possibility doesn't therefore mean that:

Firestarter = town therefore Millar13 = scum

All it means, is that you will be a town player that has actually made himself look scummy. And the reason why this is known, is because I am in fact not the only person that thinks this. If this was a simple one on one tactic then maybe a trade off could be considered but it isn't.

If you flip town, then it simply means that you aren't playing in the game in such a way that actually makes you look town.

And finally I would like to know how exactly my play is

unbelievably scummy

[millar13]

My case that has fallen flat on it's face. To be honest I don't think that you can judge that or not. I will show you why.

If you go to court, the person who the case is against is always go to deny the accusations whether they are guilty or not. My case stays strong dependent on how others respond to it. The fact that Strangecoug said this, pay attention to the Italic

Strangecoug:
"This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off.

The case itself is good, though.

This shows that the case it good, as it is someone personal opinion who is not directly involved within it. The fact that SC has a vote on me, further proves that in fact that case has not "fallen flat on its face".

As I said before, I am not amusing you by providing you another extensive post, when I have already told you how I feel. I really don't see the point of repeating myself twice on the same page. You post, as if you are control and I am meant to accept this and follow your every demand.

The problem is that you have actually not considered that I may be on the side of town, which is something that I am still very wary of and could very much be a possibility. This game isn't about Firestarter vs. Millar13 and the soon you stop playing like it is the better.

[millar13]

Firestarter:
"@ millar13

millar13 wrote:
Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.


millar13, your making accusations, yet your not actually following them up with your reasons for them.
Please do this so I can answer them.....
1. How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?
2. How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?
3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?
4. There is,however, one part I can answer here, and its your accusation of me being offensive and frustrated.
Yes, I was frustrated because you refused to even say you'd post a case on me after I asked you. Twice.
If I was offensive, which I dont believe I was as I did not directly insult you, then I apologise.
Abusing someone or bringing their family members into a game is not something I ever do.

1) It is quite clear that in fact you don't actually read all the posts, and you seem to pick out through the ones that suit you best. If you had read Strangecoug's Post 127. You will noticed that I actually admitted it wasn't actually a good opening and it was slightly floored.

Millar13:
"in many ways the start was not good, but it was edited after the use of the bad language. I am not someone that really back it up, or see it as something that need to be used in these environments without good reason. I can see why you could see this as scum-play, but maybe it comes down to the fact that I couldn't believe that someone who was vanilla would actually think so highly of themselves, when in the majority of games. Mafia member have through their own realization or not shown to be "up their own arse" so too speak.

Other than that, I think my reasons to vote Firestarter are strong enough at the moment.

2) I didn't say you were sitting on one, but rather you are acting in a mannerism as if you were.

Firestarter:
"3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?"

Could you twist me word anymore? What I actually said was.

Millar:
"(I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum)

This statement doesn't not mean that you are definetly scum, what it means if you read it all is that I don't see how you can be pro-town therefor as a simple pro-town you must (or at least seem) to be scum. You if you are not one, then you must be the other. Please don't twist my words or mis-quote again. Doing so is incredibly idoitic.

You want me to clarify this post:

Millar:
"
The likelihood is that you actually believed in our back-and-forth confrontations that with the introduction of other players I would come off looking worse, and they would put their votes on me rather than yourself.

What you have to understand, is that a large amount of my case is built upon the fact that people actually see you in the same way as I do...although their views are more valuable as they are very much out-side the box and therefore provide me with a more rational view of things

"

What this means is quite simple.

My case doesn't work with just my own opinion. The fact that Battousai and Isaac also appears to be on the same wavelenght as me (NOTE THIS IS NOT A WAGON, SO DON'T CLAIM IT IS) was a clear sign to me that I wasn't the only person to think you were coming off looking like scum. The reason their views are more valuable, is because are are indirectly involved and so their view are not biased. Easy enough to understand.

Post 49 is not part of my case to why you scum, but rather making the point that there is a hint of town to you. I don't have complete scum tunnel vision of you, as I have explained before with my 60/40 perspective.

Your second vote was not part of the RVS, because the RVS had very much ended when Battousia voted for me for "applying tactis" Saying otherwise, is illogical.

You want to know what is:

Firestarter:
"What is "convincing" about it, and what am I attempting to do?"

Millar:
"Isaac made some good points, not all great or perfect, but some good points none the less and you didn't even challenge what he said but gave a week response of:

Firestarter wrote:
We just found millar13's scumbuddy...


That post is convincing to anyone, and is pretty feeble at attempting what ever it was that psot was meant to accomplish.

The fact that you made a one lime assumption, that just because another person thinks your scum you actually mirror it with a blatant OMGUS and make the claim that "they must be Millar's scummy buddy". That was scummy to say the least.

That is all your getting from me, you are in fact very lucky that I changed my mind and decided to 'cater to your needs'. Don't expect the same again.

[millar13]

I answer all your questions...so be just deal with it. You already have you answers.
I am not giving you an in-depth 101 on how I play this game and what tactics I used to scum-hunt. This isn't just about you or me so deal with.

From now on I am IGNORING you. And yes you did twist me words especially concerning the "concrete" bit. Stop with your spin and accept your fate

[millar13]

it is because he only reads the posts he wants too...and even then, he chooses to read them in a way that suits "his game"

[millar13]

Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension. One sentance millar13 writes can be influenced by others he has written before/after, especially question 3. He didn't say the word mannerism, but infered it by talking about the way you posted (insults and what not).

Also, how are all the lurkers (afatchic, dubya) and those who haven't commented much on the firstarter v millar13 cases (and taken a stance).

Mod: Could you please prod dubya and afatchic if you haven't? And if you have, are replacements needed?

PRAISE THE LORD! I am glad I am not the only onto to see this. Especially the this point "

He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted.

" and the reason why you point is most valuable, is the fact that you also have your suspicions on me as well. Un-Bias view.

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

Firestarter I would like to see a case for Isacc, considering you accused him of being my scumbuddy. I won't give you a deadline, so don't worry to much about how long you take.

[millar13]

Quote taken from Post 159

Firestarter:
"@ Battousai

Battousai wrote:
Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension.


Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

1. How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?
2. How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?
3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?
4. How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong.

Well it is clear that I actually have to spell out the answers for you, rather than you actually go through my post and actually realize they are pretty much already there.

Question 1. Was answered in Post 145:

Millar:
"1) It is quite clear that in fact you don't actually read all the posts, and you seem to pick out through the ones that suit you best. If you had read Strangecoug's Post 127. You will noticed that I actually admitted it wasn't actually a good opening and it was slightly floored.

Quote:
Millar13:
"in many ways the start was not good, but it was edited after the use of the bad language. I am not someone that really back it up, or see it as something that need to be used in these environments without good reason. I can see why you could see this as scum-play, but maybe it comes down to the fact that I couldn't believe that someone who was vanilla would actually think so highly of themselves, when in the majority of games. Mafia member have through their own realization or not shown to be "up their own arse" so too speak.

Other than that, I think my reasons to vote Firestarter are strong enough at the moment."[./quote]

Question 2. Was answered in Post 145 aswell:

Millar13:
"2) I didn't say you were sitting on one, but rather you are acting in a mannerism as if you were."

Maybe I answered this badly, and I admit it could have come out a lot better.

Question 3. Was answered in Post 145 aswell:

Millar13:
"Quote:
Firestarter:
"3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?"


Could you twist me word anymore? What I actually said was.

Quote:
Millar:
"(I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum)


This statement doesn't not mean that you are definetly scum, what it means if you read it all is that I don't see how you can be pro-town therefor as a simple pro-town you must (or at least seem) to be scum. You if you are not one, then you must be the other. Please don't twist my words or mis-quote again. Doing so is incredibly idoitic."

Now my big problem is

Question Four

althought to begin with it was a statment. Originally in Post 132 it was

Firestarter:
"4. There is,however, one part I can answer here, and its your accusation of me being offensive and frustrated.
Yes, I was frustrated because you refused to even say you'd post a case on me after I asked you. Twice.
If I was offensive, which I dont believe I was as I did not directly insult you, then I apologise.
Abusing someone or bringing their family members into a game is not something I ever do."

However, now the question is.

Firestarter:
"4. How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong."

You know that means, you have actually put spin on your own points and changed them to make you look better.

You said:

Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

Would you believe that they had already been answered?

[millar13]

I never really comprehend 'bussing' SC can you explain what you mean?

[millar13]

Well considering now I know.

SC I don't think I am bussing at all, my attitude towards Firestarter really hasn't changed for the entire game. The fact that I was the first person to point to him, and the first person to bring any sort of view of scumminess sort of shows that. If you think it is because I wasn't the first too vote then your wrong. The truth is, that if I had voted first it wouldn't have been as effective or made as much sense as if I had actually waited for what my fellow town members had to say. If I am right, this is a team effort?

[millar13]

I don't know how to respond with out screaming, but this doesn't actually completely some up as an actual case. You have actually based a large amount of your anaysis on

your own opinion

and also what you seem to believe IS FACT. It is almost as if you believe you know what everyone is thinking and you know exactly what they are planning to do.

When you make a case, you actually have to have some sort of actual case with some hard case and evidents and not just PERSONAL OPINION.

Not only have you based a large majority of your case on opinion, but you have yet again taken a lot of what I have said out of context and given it your own personal spin. When I quote you, in the majority of cases I let people know all that you have said rather than just segmentation.

If you remove the un-needed personal opinion and bring in some hard facts it might actually be useful.

Also I implore you to stop saying things like this, all it makes you look like is someone desperately to give out any dirt possible in any shape or form. Your post, despite its lengths just appears desperate

[millar13]

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

I think Firestarter is making the point that you are the third man in our scum team...with myself and Isacc included in the equation. If he had seven people calling him scum, he would likely still argue similar points. As much as I think he is scum, part of me is still wondering if he is just a retarded scummy looking towny. However, a towny that comes off look like that really isn't something that would be needed anyway.

I admit I have come to point, where I don't see how Firestarter can stay and the game can progress at the same time.

[millar13]

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?

There were some things I noticed, that I'd come back to later....
Right now, the case is on M13, he is top of the pile for me.

And @ M13...

[color=redIm not even going to write anything in response to your last post, its just ridiculous.[/color]
OF COURSE THE CASE IS BASED ON MY OPINION!!!!!
Did you have help for your case???

IRONIC!

[millar13]

Your case is TOTALLY based on opinion and very little fact or evidence, you remind me of a one man marching band.

[millar13]

Good Point, a town player would feel the need to concentrate on just one player if another one was given him a lot of grief as well.

I know Strangecoug has issues with me, but no where near the proportion you have towards Firestarter. At L-2...i think he should just self vote and spare us the further grief of waiting for quiet possibly his lurking scum buddies

[millar13]

Firestarter:
BTW M13, town never self-votes...
But then again, you already knew that

I am pretty sure, that town do self-vote sometimes. I have done it once, and if my hunch is correct Korlash who is doing it could very well be on the side of the town as well.

Good to have you back pacman

[millar13]

Battousai you post is valued, as personally I don't think I can attempt to really justify firestarters claims on me...he just wants his cake and wants to eat is also. An indirect post, was far more useful

[millar13]

He posted less than half an hour ago!

You impatient or what

[millar13]

Firestarter:
"Battousai wrote:
What really happened was millar commented he didn't vote in the RVS, I voted him for it, Millar FOS'd me for voting him for it, SC asked why towards the FOS, and Millar explained. Millar never accuses SC of being scummy up to that point


What are you talking about?
He claims the following after SC asked him about it.

millar13 wrote:
StrangerCoug wrote:
millar13 wrote:
Battousai wrote:
Vote: Millar13 for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.


FOS:BATTUOSAI for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage


And the thing wrong with that is?


I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell


Read my quote again for clarity... The timeline is clear, I state that M13 says SC just gave off a scum-tell after SC asked him about it. NOT before it.
And why are you NOT addressing the real point of that post, that M13 ignored you in favour of SC?
Read it again."

I don't know what is wrong with you, but you don't actually seem to be able to read.

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Its clearly says that I thought the action was a SCUM-TELL...it doesn't actually mention me calling anyone scummy. You have to realize that is two very different things.

Although HOW IS THIS RELEVANT, I think everyone apart from you has got past this. You claim I am solely focused on the RVS and part just after, but it is only yourself that keep bringing it up.

Firestarter:
"Battousai wrote:
Firestarter wrote:
He then states that Im likely scum of the players participating in the game, when a few short posts earlier he says Im 50/50.
I made only 1 other post since he claimed this...


No he said you were the most likely scum member at the moment. There is a big difference.


WRONG. He said I was 50/50.
Go check the posts please. "

Maybe I did say 50/50 in the past, I can't find the quote but if you show me I will believe it. However, this is also OLD NEWS, recently I have you on 60/40 and once again you remain to LIVE IN THE PAST

[millar13]

I answered them, but it is clear that you didn't get the answers you wanted or expected.

Stuff like "it doesn't wash" please I know what it says.

You know what doesn't wash...YOU!

[millar13]

The fact that another person agrees with me says it all really. I answer you questions, so deal with it. Stupid acting like an idiot with posts like this

"Funny guy, no.. really ya are Wink"

And what you you mean you haven't skipped any? Go trrough pages 5-8 and you will see Isacc had questioned you a number of times, with no actual response.

[millar13]

Another fact that Firestarter needs to realize is:

If he flips town, this doesn't automatically mean that I will be lynched next. I don't quite understand this logic at all.

[millar13]

That wasn't abuse, I was just stating what you are doing...playing like an idiotic because your reasoning is idiotic. If i were to call you a mofo that would be abuse.

By read up, you mean you haven't skipped anything...then you are wrong....or should I say still wrong. Do I actually have to do it for you?

[millar13]

Firestarter:-

Your Tunnel vision is handicapping you......IRONY!

Isacc you need to calm down...IRONY!


Also I think this is a freudian slip:- "BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of. "

Why not fellow townies...you addressed the town once again as if you are a separate organism

[millar13]

Pacman:
I see that the case on Firestarter is very strong.

Firestarter is ignoring some guys, and his "waa waa Isaac is scum because he attacks me" is really scummy. Also, the cases on him are well stated, while the case on millar is imo weak.

However, I'll make another recheck, and then go on with a vote.

This post, indicates that Pacman thinks the case on me is weak.
Whilst the one on you is well stated, and that the case is strong.
And also picks up on the point that Isacc and myself have mentioned that you ignore people.

He didn't actually mention he was specifically checking the case on me. ONCE AGAIN you are twisting words to suit your own situation, and I am shocked they are not my own. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

[millar13]

I think people should pay attention to my comment in POST 208 including Firestarter

[millar13]

In terms of this scum-tell non sense I just said it was scumtell, it wasn't directly targetted at anyone

[millar13]

mother of the main protagonist, probably a vanilla if its true, but you never know. Any CCs?

No idea what that means

[millar13]

Name claims don't actually mean anything to be honest, and this has somehow taken the pressure off completely as we gone off topic.

[millar13]

Also I don't like the idea of name claim, the fact that the action was done by you Battousai has actually totally throw me off balance as what to think.

[millar13]

Make sense...i just don't really like it.

[millar13]

Saying your vanilla townie is this game, is like you have brown hair. It doesn't actually mean anything.

However, if you are a vanilla townie then you are the worst example and most scummy one I have ever...and I mean EVER come across

[millar13]

Also, don't you think the mod may have randomly assigned role to name? Quite often names give end up as red herrings.

[millar13]

Considering its is spelt:

-KAFUFFLE
-it is APPARENTLY

and the fact that the language is broken in places, I am willing to say that you used a minor characters name (who was a protagonist) and made up the role PM as well.

[millar13]

so you reckon its CAFUFFLE

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CAFUFFLE

I know its KAFUFFLE

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=KAFUFFLE

However neither are spelt:

Firestarter:
Vivian Kudo.
Vanilla Townie.

"Apparantly, shinichi has caused some sort of

cofuffle

, thats now involved me.

With the investigative skills Ive acquired from my spouse, its time to get to the bottom of this mess!"

As you have done...so you didn't quite get that right at all did you. Don't give me the stuff about direct quoting, as a spelling mistake wouldn't actually prevent it from be direct quoting. Either way it doesn't add up.

And "give it a break, will ya?" Is that what the Police do, when they have a Number 1 Suspect? They just give him a break.

[millar13]

That makes no sense...so my vote is standing on you currently and yet you expect me to backdown and distance myself from you.

How you think these posts are not helping me I do not know.

[millar13]

Its not that its is the spelling that I have an issue with, its the fact I don't believe his name claim is true.

[millar13]

*I love Korlash's avatar! *

[millar13]

To be honest I am at a cross roads.

1) The previous case and the reasons I thought he was scum are still strong in my decision

2) This claim and what has followed is now actually making me think that actually their is a chance that he might have actually been telling the truth and he is town. (This would not excuse his scummy nature though)

[millar13]

Firestarter:
SC.. I dont know.. Seemed to go from M13 to me, M13 and back to me again... It could be considered a scum gambit, voting and being suspicious of the 2 in the biggest battle so far, and waiting to see who loses.

If anything, SC suspects me more than you because he has had his vote and suspicions on me for much longer. The only reason you suspected is the fact your scumminess has grown over time. Don't exaggerate, it makes any plea that you may be town not something worth saving

[millar13]

I know your not pleaing...and that in many ways actually makes me feel that you could have been telling the truth this whole time, despite your "scumminess"

Also I would like you explain

"You seriously need to brush up on your English, your posts at times are quite confusing. "

Because no one else has had a problem with it so far.

[millar13]

I never said you were making the plea personally...i meant any plea that may be made, will not seem worthwhile.

However, after-much deliberation and the fact that I was never 100% certain on you, I am about to do something that people may actually be genuienly surprised by.

Unvote

We are at least two weeks off the end of the Day, and I don't see any need to rush in.

I still think you a likely scum candidate and I haven't stopped believing in my case. However, when people's replacements come in etc I will have a much better knowings of the game itself.

[millar13]

This is D1, our best guess would only be a guess. There isn't a lot of informationt o go off of. If we choose not to lynch Firestarter and say run up a wagon on millar, we could possibly out a powerrole or he'll claim vanilla. We then would probably lynch one of the two claimed vanilla players.

If there are 3 scum and both firestarter and millar are vanilla, that means when it comes to night the scum have a 1:7 chance of hitting a powerrole. It is best to lynch the Firestarter because it lessens the chance from 1:8 to 1:7 for the scum to find and kill a powerrole before they get to use their ability or if we run up a wagon on a powerrole, it almost guarantees their death unless there is a protective role. IMO, D1 you lynch the claimed vanilla.

Plus, more than likely we will end up lynching him later...

Good point.

Vote:Firestarter

[millar13]

Lindifarne who are your current top suspects though?

[millar13]

Especially when only any possibility he might actually not be scum, came in much later. It is as if you reading, but you already know something.

[millar13]

alexhans:
Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

FOS everybody?

Where exactly. Either quote them ALL or please leave

[millar13]

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member.

Also:

Alexshans:
If Fire is town I want his lynch to have been thoroughly discussed before it's done. Otherwise tomorrow everyone will wash their hands and point at millar.

What makes you assume that if Fire comes up town, that I am necessarily proven scum. If he somehow flips town, it is down to his scumlike play rather than being my fault that I noticed he was scum. People like yourself are almost sounding like you ALREADY know Fire is town, and therefore want a wagon to form as soon as possible.

Strangecoug is the only person with logic, as in many ways his idea of me and Firestarting bussing is the only point that actually sounds like it has any solid meaning to it. It doesn't have to neccersary be right, to have strength to it.

[millar13]

@ Everybody

Something I don't quite understand, so if you can clear up would be fine.

I see Firestarter as scummy. I have my suspicions
He mirror/OMGUS.
We have this heated one-one-on.

However, if Firestarter is lynched people are saying that I flip scum.
Therefore, people might wonder if the table was switched and I was lynched and came up town Firestarter would deffo come up scum...WRONG!

There is a chance, and I think it is growing in likelihood that Firestarter and myself could both me townies, and that a wagon is rolling. Scum might actually be lurking or watching as the town implodes.

Firestarter (Town) = Millar (Scum) is actually wrong?

Has anyone considered that possibly that is what the scum want you too think

[millar13]

I will comment on the game progression tomorrow evening all.
Right now, time does not allow me to.

Firestarter can you let me else other than me who you think is scum. The introduciton of alexshans actually has me thinking a lot more that we might both be on the same team, just both sending out mixed messages

[millar13]

Wow I think I am going to have to re-read this.

[millar13]

Well, I have been watching but not feeling I have anything constructive to say. To Be Honest, with the likelihood that Firestarter is town...i really don't know what to do. Feeling is I laid all my eggs in one basket...and they broke.

[millar13]

Back from Scotland

[millar13]

Sajin what are you doing!

Putting pressure on someone, who you think could have a power role!
With the COP dead, are you trying to remove the Doc from the equatation as well. Sounds scummy as hell

[millar13]

Vote: Lindisfarne

yeah accuse me of jumping on the wagon if you want, but seems the best option right now.

[millar13]

Sajin you sound adamant to find out people's name, and then turn on them for doing so.

[millar13]

I have a better idea, as I think at this stage in the game a tactic should be employed.

Anyone who has any investigative roles, should step-forward with a name claim. With only six left, there can't be that many left considering I assume there is is one if not not mafia members amongst us.

Once this has occurred, any one who can protect someone could step forward. That seems slightly more logical, than just name claiming that results to very little inciteful data

[millar13]

@millar: No. Your idea is flawed. If we were to do something like that, we would need to have investigatives claim, and then leave it at that, since a hidden doc is better than an outed one, because the outed one, though they will keep the investigative role safe, will also die, whereas keeping them hidden will make the scum take a potshot. I still prefer full massclaim, because it improves our odds for a guarenteed win, depending on whether or not we can break the setup.

Your continued refusal to claim is bothering me. Only you and Batt haven't nameclaimed. Get to it.

FoS: millar13

Don't you see though, there are six people left. If two of them are scum, are we two more townies die tonight. Scum effectively wins. If you can think up anything that is more useful at tracking scum tell me, unless you are scum and therefore don't like the idea. Outting power roles, is vital during this stage in the game.

[millar13]

My name is Eva (in game)

I think we need to have something put in place, so people investigating actually can be protected. As at the end of the day, Investigation > Protection

[millar13]

That is in fact the Eva I am talking about Korlash...i just don't want to over-steo the boundary of what the Mod sees as word for word of the Role PM

[millar13]

Battou the fact that you don't believe I am Doc says a lot...at this stage in the game. Townies start to believe each other even in "false hope".

The fact that you very much, your own man make me feel you don't want to come up as having a group mentality. Why don't you role claim? No....you must role claim!

[millar13]

why did madeofphail die....because i didn't protect him as totally forgot about him possibly being a town vig. Too busy protecting you

[millar13]

One time drug use?

[millar13]

All I am saying, is I would fancy protecting somewhere with investigative powers. As now I have outed myself, I think I would be NK'ed next

[millar13]

I protected Battousai and Korlash, N1 and N2 respectively

I already claimed Doctor

and Eva Kadan

Have no idea what you mean by flavour

[millar13]

I thought I protected Sajin...wasn't a lie was a mistake

[millar13]

Doc of Law


I convince the 5-0 to set up a checkpoint thus no weapons can get thru that night

[millar13]

I made a mistake. If you really think that is enough to call me out as scum, go along with it. I haven't made many good calls as Doc so far. But maybe I can actually do something right tonight.

[millar13]

I both thought you were town.

[millar13]

And when I flip, as the Doctor Eva Kadan what are you going to do Kairyuu. Laugh, at the fact that you as a mafia member have won.

[millar13]

I thought you were town. I had a gut feeling.

[millar13]

With Six remaining....and myself on L-1 all I am going to say is this.

At the Start of D4, you will have two less town members instead of just 1. Please over-turn the mistakes that have already been made

[millar13]

There is nothing more to say.

[millar13]

I didn't say there were going to be two kills tonight.

I said at the start of D4, we would be two townies down. Slight difference

[millar13]

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant. The fact remains, that if you kill me off today. The Mafia will kill off another town members tomorrow.

Funnily how i protect Korlash and Battousai two players who you also consider as town.
You sure you want to put the town in a bad position tomorrow

[millar13]

If you want I can just hammer myself, and prove you all wrong

[millar13]

But you don't think I am town...so I would be doing you a favour surely?

[millar13]

Vote:Millar13

Sometimes fellow town members aren't worthy of winning.

[millar13]

GO MAFIA! Please kill off these idiots

[millar13]

Screwing you over was deliberate


If you can't make one mistake without getting lynched, why not make two instead

[millar13]

I am not going to give further reason, so people can build up on my meta.

[millar13]

Nah im the Doc.

You have 5 people left going into N3, and so after all of this will be 2 townies short.

AAWWWWWWWWWW

[millar13]

Censored! -Mod

[millar13]

Guess I was part of the winning team, despite clear frustration