Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[alexhans]

I've played with Hascow before and he was not a very active scum player... at least in that game. Maybe it was because the town had 80 % of lynchable material (Empking, Zwets, Dejkha, Wall-e and Hewitt). Anyway... If I had to kill... knowing there were no protections whatsoever... I would've killed... sensfan? Mastin? someone random that I don't know? Probably I wouldn't have had a voice in a scumteam....

Anyway... 16 playing... 25 % means 4 scum. 31.25 % is 5 scum... too much...
also... the n0 kill was unstoppable.. so we should count 15 playing... 33.33 % is unlikely

What I assume:
15 mislynch 14 L-8 (scum is 50 % of a lynching waggon)
14 kill 13
13 mislynch 12 L-7 (scum is 57 % of a lynching waggon)
12 kill 11
11 mislynch 10 L-6 (scum is 66.7 % of a lynching waggon)
10 kill 9
9 mislynch 8 L-5 (scum is 80 % of a lynching waggon)

we can basically mislynch 4 times (MAX). This is going to be one LONG game...



Players:
Battle Mage

SensFan (Is supposed to be good)
alexhans

GIEFF
Cephrir

VP Baltar
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Kairyuu
camn

broomhead
SpyreX

Zachrulez
Benmage
Mastin

jammer

Bolded I've either played with, or know by reputation.

this is funny...
I'm tempted to vote VP Baltar because he is always scum...
I'm tempted to vote Mastin for self voting...
I'm tempted to vote Kai to OMGUS...
I'm tempted to vote camn because she is voting her fianceé

vote: alexhans

Obvcult. Speedlynch GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!

*Alexhans recruits Kai...

New postPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:02 am (Yaw posted the first post of the game)
I'm researching who to vote...

well...

Vote broomhead

because he is probably hiding among unknown players.

Mastin posted again while I was writing this... and DDD too...

[alexhans]

And how would you know?

Cause I wrote that post and was researching the profiles of the players... and found DDD had been active AFTER Yaw's 1st post... so I went back to the thread and found your posts...

By the way, I just killed the RVS. In your next post, either get out of it, or die.

Im glad... but people should still vote eventually... For a reason... but vote. We can not afford lurkers (active or not) or inactivity...

[alexhans]

Cause I wrote that post and was researching the profiles of the players... and found DDD had been active AFTER Yaw's 1st post... so I went back to the thread and found your posts...

...You were looking at all of our latest posts? <_<

I was.

Kairyuu's #20: interesting addition. I was thinking under the same lines. It may not be valid to lynch someone on the premise that he killed Hascow if he is not bold enough to convince his scumteam.

Mastin you plan using meta to see who killed the cow, while you already made clear scum can easily wifom the meta. With that, there only has to be one that played with hascow, to know him and kill him. You think(and others?) talking about meta, is a better way to find scum, then simple scumhunting?

You suggest we ignore the kill?
How's this simple scumhunting:

Ignores the supposed killing of RVS of Mastin.

Vote: SensFan

For replacing out in comfirmation stage in my other game.

You want us back in the RVS? What are you trying to make out of this?

Yaw #25:
From now on the short forms are:
Battle Mage = BM
SensFan = SF
alexhans = Alex
GIEFF = GIEFF
Cephrir = Ceph
VP Baltar = VP
Debonair Danny DiPietro = DDD
Kairyuu = Kai
camn = Camn
broomhead = Broom
SpyreX = Spy
Zachrulez = Zach
Benmage = Ben
Mastin = Mastin
jammer = Jam
hasdgfas = Hascow

Do we all agree? So we can easyly use Ctrl-f to look for a name OR short form? Remember, It all helps the town.

#Jammer's 26: what's your Conclusion? Are you scumhunting? Is mastin?

also, in addition to Mastin's following post I would tell you to look at Sensfan's death on n0 in Mafia 91. Not random.

Mastin has a very good point when he says that n0 kills are very probably not random.

@GIEFF: As the inventor of the thoery I also found weird the way in wich jammer worded this:

With 4 scum, you're trying to find out what one of them would kill. Include a wifom-kill argument, and we got little if anything to find mafia on. It sounds pretty random to me.

Sounded matter of factly. But we'll see.
@jammer: EM != MS... Chat games are open for varying tactics... MS are a bit more constrained because you play fewer games...

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

I don't think jammer slipped up, especially given that there probably aren't 4 scum.

Excuse me? Why not?

So if there's 4 scum, isn't it actually 3 mislynches max? Since a 4th would be a scum win?

Yes Kai, My bad. 3 Mislynches is all we get.

That seems unbalanced to me. Especially given that town has no power roles.

No is not. Why is 3 mislynches unbalanced? Town should find scum... 3 day should be lylo if town sucks that much...
---------
Until here, I was writing after midday (GMT - 3) from here onwards, I'm catching up. Didn't get to read everything so I didn't post at the time... wich was a huge mistake because now you have a LONG post to read... SOrry...
---------
by the way...

Sensfan is scum because he is still alive...

Just kidding...

jammer, if you read the site/my sig at the time, you would have known I was forced out of that game. So I'm going with a

Vote" jammer

Is this a joke vote? Are you voting a player who is on the spotlight for what reasons exactly? Are you going to be as combative as ever? Are we gonna end up fighting?

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

I agree with this.

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

mmmm... I knew it...

Sensfan...
Discussing, stating our opinions = Healthy
Shutting the fuck up = NOT healthy

#50 @GIEFF: My analysys of the amount of scum in a game is usually related to the number of mislynches that town is allowed to have before losing. 3/4 mislynches is a good enough chance for town. And, as you say, when there's a scum lynch, there's a LOT of information to go on with.

Also... If I were a mod... 2 scum among so many town players would be boring...

Vote

BM

Why?

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's

becoming quite apparent

that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

Don't be so sure.

DO NOT DISCARD 4 scumteam. It may bite us in the ass if we mislynch thrice.

I feel reasonably safe in calling you as town.

Do not count your townies until they flip... Remember Steph?

DDD: THIS is the time to speculate about deaths... later on, we wont be able because scum may choose to wifom. But right now. I'm sure it counts for something.

Cephrir expects three or four scum, says we should assume four scum because of that possibility. And then concludes by stating there probably aren't four scum. While these statements are completely contradictory they certainly don't look good to me.

Good point. It sounded weird to me too.

@Camn: I like you... and I DONT like you at the same time... How's that possible? Acting crazy helps your meta? Try to help town...

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.

I'm too.

I think that he is the kind of player that, AS SCUM, given a night 0, he would choose to eliminate someone that he thought might be a detriment to the gameplay as a whole. Like a lurker, or someone who might replace out... or someone he thought was "mediocre".
He has that kind of integrity.

I disagree... Look at mafia 91.

#69 GIEFF? Why Mastin?

BM... YOUR #71 is much more scummy than anything you might pretend Mastin is... Hoping on a waggon just like that? Mastin is an active and great player IMO and that's just his style. He was amongst the first people to post and he completely destroyed RVS (First time I've seen this) making this game really interesting from the get go. I think that your move is odd and opportunistic.

I don't get what's wrong with discussing the NK as long as we aren't ridiculously serious about it. I would never lynch based on something like that and I don't think anyone else will either, so why not talk about it? And it did a fine job getting this game off to a quick start.

QFT

Smells....town. But i dont get the fixation with namedropping players you know. It ain't cool, and it ain't productive. Whoever did the italicising and underlining thing at least actually achieved something.

dude... you dissapoint me... One post and you already have an opinion of allignment... I was just following Mastin's idea wich I though cool and Kai made it cooler. If you're not helping don't criticize. I'm not calling anyone town until I'm REALLY convinced they are town... and event then... I will still watch them closely.

So aren’t all roads point towards Battle Mage?

Why do I get the feeling that you and Sensfan felt really threatened by Mastin's posts? Can't you just debate the points?

I feel the need to remember this again... DONT RULE OUT 4 scum. We don't want to find out the wrong way. I'll have to do some research about 3:13 to see if it's more balanced or what but I still think that we should thing about the WCS.
--------------

Jammer, your scumminess drops because you went along so easily with an assertion from Alexhans that there are 4 scum, and it's becoming quite apparent that 3 scum is likely based on how the distribution of roles would have to be to get the closest to balancing this game.

QFT.

@Zach, I'm surprised that makes you feel save in calling me town.
Would you have voted me if I stated that there where 3 mafia?

Seriously he could still be scum saying 4 when there may even be 2. Who knows, writing him off as town for agreeing with anothers scum numbers seems scummy.

Doesn't this 2 quotes contradict themselves? In the SAME post?

Vote Mastin

OK... WTF? BENMAGE??? YOU ARE CLEARLY JUMPING ON MASTIN WAGGON... IT'S REALLY SCUMMY YES! IM FURIOUS (HENCE THE CAPS). I LIKE MASTIN. HE HELPS TOWN. HE MAY BE SCUM BUT THERE ARE NO LEADS THAT INDICATE THAT RIGHT NOW.

Now obviously I didn’t vote you. I don’t think this is the most compelling scum find. I am much more inclined to vote for Mastin who initiated this motive, and auto-ruled himself out, because he would obviously kill someone else if he was scum.

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof. It doesn't rule him out. He provided a way to start the game.
-----------------------

TL,DR:

- Shortforms guide.
- If there's 4 scum we get 3 mislynches, not 4
- Mastin's waggon is WEIRD and lacks of sufficient reason.
- Benmage gets a FOS.

FoS Benmage

- Read it... there's a lot of nit pick questions that cannot be TlDr'd

PS: I don't know if Kai answered this but I can't avoid doing it...

Kairyuu, what pro-town reason is there for listing the players you think that scum should kill?

err... finding scum?

[alexhans]

Bullshit. Mastin made a theory. It isn't foolproof.

It doesn't rule him out.

He provided a way to start the game.

Mastin begs to differ.

Has wouldn't be my choice with players I know;

you can auto-clear me from

picking

the kill

, as I would definitely try to lead as mafia and would have to be overridden by someone who I respect highly as a player and recognize the skill of to not nk another pro-town player.

Now I'm not sure whether this was entirely serious or not, but if it was... yeah. Incidentally, it's also suspicious if it was entirely serious.

I think Mastin may make the mistake of being too sure of his allignment, meaning that he expects everyone to acknowledge his townieness in an unprovable way.

But don't worry.. I will grow on you!

I hope so.

Ok.

*Alexhans gives 1 credit to camn for ending the RVS (or attempting to in a WEIRD way )

[alexhans]

Alexhans, why so upset about Mastin being bandwagoned?

Do you want a scummy so you can appear to scumhunt or you want the real deal?

Scummy answer) Because We are scumpartners and Im totally defending him... oh... and we are 7 scum btw... this is actually lylo

Real answer) I see no reasons for voting him but atacking the first one who makes something to move the game. He is acting as he usually does and his auto-clearing doesn't seem scummy to me. Just mastin's personality. I should check a game where he is scum to have more information but from what I have now he is not scummy.

I'm not liking a fast waggon on an active, pro town player...

We should worry about those who DONT post or post null opinions and keep discussing everything...

[alexhans]

Dude... I'm not saying he is a townie... I just HATE his waggon right now when there's still players who haven't posted and I don't really get the reasons behind the Mastin votes.

[alexhans]

Pro town doesnt mean he is not mafia... look at VP Baltar, for instance. He always acts pro town. You have to look his actions very closely to see hidden motives.

[alexhans]

Meh... long post...

Long posts do not mean pro-town. I don't think Mastin has acted pro-town at all.

Maybe I'm prejudiced by my past experiences but I STILL don't see how why he has acted anti-town.

Anyway. I'm gonna let him speak for himself. I'm just noting my disagreement with his waggon.

#107: The succession of Masting's Im town quotes made me lol. You may have a point there and I may be too pro-Mastin. I really need to meta him at this point to see what's going on.

Yes, or come with something good. You say not to disregard the kill, yet I've seen nothing usefull on that topic coming from you.

Jammer. I sense agressivenes... Haven't we got the game moving with that topic?

If you catched mafia using meta with the kill back then, I can follow. Till I hear you did that, I call the idea stupid.

My intention was never to lynch someone using meta. My inention was to get the game moving with some rather serious accussations so people could start arguing, siding, reacting, retorting, etc, etc.

RVS with such amount of experienced players may be a problem to disentangle. I liked this avoidance of RVS. It felt like starting playing from the get go.

ou didn't research it, yet state it is stupid to say 4 scum is strange, multiple times.

dude... I NEVER Said it was STUPID. EVER. And the fact that you're saying I did it multiple times annoys me big time. To assume that there's 3 or 2. Seeing how a lot of players seem to agree one 3 that's a big probability. I just DONT WANT us to lure in a false sense of security assuming that there can on only be 3 scum.

Unvote, Vote: Alex Hans

Serious vote. Serious wagon required.

BM

I'm sensing bullshit coming my way... The fact that you left mastin's waggon to the one who is "defending him" is noted.

Nah, i disagree. Jammer can be Jammer. SpyreX can be Spyrex. Kairyuu can be Kairyuu. Hasdgfas can be Has. Cephrir can be Cephrir. You can be Lynchbait.

It is a way to organize things so it's easier to make searchs afterwards. Has is not a good short form, at all. Hasd is better in that case but hascow is just 2 letters longer and that joke is NOT funny because you seem intent in pulling it off.

The flaw you have is, that any motive you give to a scumkill is automatically WIFOM. Thus, no conclusion you can draw from the kills can make a strong case.

*sigh*
You all seem to be ignoring my words... argumenting about a kill is NOT definite to finding scum. But it can provide a base from where to start. Why is people so unconfortable around this idea? WHy are YOU so against it? Because it signaled you as posible player?
I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it. What's the HUDE deal with nk speculation then? Also, Note that I said that futher NK would not be useful because they will be probably covered with WIFOM but I think the n0 kill allows a reason...

Did scum knew that the RVS was gonna be avoided like that? if not... why would they think of wifom?

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

Ok... this kind of posts always scream scummy to me. This is called SOFT-PUSHING or SOFT-IMPLYING or whatever. You agree with me in the quid of the matter but still call me "weird" for it. Weird is used when you want others to think... oh...

if it's weird it must be scummy...

Uncool tactic.

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

I know SF has a strong personality. I'm just testing the waters. What's wrong with them, anyway? are you just adding fluff to an otherwise lame case?

The kill would be most likely to come from someone who knows hascow. Furthermore, I believe that a senior player on the scum team would have more sway and would help direct the kill toward someone like hascow, as opposed to someone a newer person might be more inclined to kill based on overall site rep alone.

I agree with this.

Convenient? Whats your relationship with Hasdgfas?

I'd appreciate if you read what I said a long time ago before asking that SAME question.

I've played with Hascow before and he was not a very active scum player... at least in that game. Maybe it was because the town had 80 % of lynchable material (Empking, Zwets, Dejkha, Wall-e and Hewitt). Anyway... If I had to kill... knowing there were no protections whatsoever... I would've killed... sensfan? Mastin? someone random that I don't know? Probably I wouldn't have had a voice in a scumteam....

Note 2 things.
1) I STATE my relationship with hascow.
2) I say that I would probably have no voice on a scumteam so that means that there's no kill that could rule me out or make me townier because it wouldnt probably be my choice.

Trying to appear pro-town, whilst not actually saying anything.

BM... you're really starting to annoy me and you're really starting to look like trying to fake a case instead of actually scumhunting.

I said the whole healthy thing to avoid a Sensfan flame up for nothing. We are not going to lynch him, you or whoever just for a nk theory.

Possibly the least intelligent thing i have ever read. ^

Why coach Zach? And who is Steph?

^ Possibly the less useless comment I've ever heard.

At least STATTE why you don't agree with it instead of insulting my intelligence. I'm here for the fun, not for you to insult me without reasons. I'm open to arguments but won't accept disrespectful people.

If you had meta-ed me... you would find that I usually try to coach everyone into playing in a way wich I think is the optimal way... I may be mistaken but it's what I think is good. A player can take it or leave it.

Steph is Stephoscope. A player who Zach and I defended because the players against him (Amished and DDD) where going after him with a WRONG case. He turned up scum in the end but the case on day 1 was not good enough. There were other things that made him scummier on later days but not D1. I reminded Zach of not setting his mind on something because we could have a surprise, as we did. I actually though that Steph was town for a great part of that game. That's why I wont be hard set on Mastin town. But right now, I don't feel the case on him is enough. I think it's more of a reflex of accusing the most talkative player in the game.

its not wierd, it's completely logical...

Ok. Stop with the contradictions without explanations. EXPLAIN. EXPLAIN. EXPLAIN. If you state something, don't leave it hanging there. No one has the ultimate truth.

Lol, wow. It's the Random Vote Stage. Get over it. xD

...

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do?

Ok. I didnt take it that seriously but I guess it's somewhat valid to vote for him. But... would you lynch him for it?

Oh, sorry i didnt realise we'd instituted a rule where the first players to post are protown. 0.o

YES Rule 195 of the mafia handbook!!!!
no, seriously, I didn't mean that. I meant that he can probably do a lot of good to this game. Posting helps, IMO, if someone posts a lot and then flips town we may see what he was thinking, who was against him, etc. if he flips scum... we have a gold mine of info. That's why lurking is so detrimental to town and no one should do it if they're town so scum cant hide in a lurker pool.

Active and great player, as he may be, it doesnt mean he is town

I know

, or worth keeping around.

I wouldn't be so sure about that as I've explained before.

Nor does it make people who are suspicious of him, automatically scummy.

No, BUT, I think one may always sense if a vote is forced or not. Benmage's vote, for example, sounded forced to me.

The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

what??? I don't follow your logic that the only way in wich RVS was destroyed is if mastin is scum... Could you rephrase it in a way a 5 year old could understand?

Also, how many jokes vote are are you seeing?

*Alexhans scores!

How many times have you played with Mastin? I've gotta admit, he strikes me as the kinda guy who probably attracts more attention than he deserves, not the other way around. Why then, should it be wierd that he would get that attention here. In a game of this size, a 3rd vote is nothing, yet you appear to have shat a brick.

Is it because Mastin is your scumchum, or more likely, because he is town, who you feel can be manipulated?

woah... Loaded questions... (Bolded for emphasis)
"Are you scum because of A or are you scum because of B?"

Brain explodes...

1) I know it's wifom but thinking I would defend a scumpartner on D1 with such a great enthusiasm is underestimating me. Greatly.
2) While this is not totally unthinkable. I know that defending a player doens't help to go unnoticed and you may get heat for it (like YOUR F%&% senseless Vote!). I've learned that scum is safer being mild on the first stages of the game and then attacking with "great" and "bombastic" cases faking conviction. Also, I DONT think Mastin is so easyly influenciable. And why would I feel the need to manipulate him when he is throwing flowers in my direction before I do?

I've played twice with him (again, you're not paying attention) but he marked me with his playstyle.

btw, BM, when did you stop beating your wife?

Thats funny, because you did the exact same thing with Mastin, and myself. The only difference is, it appears you were being serious

Oh... so you were joking? that explains your sudden change to an Alexhans vote...

You said yourself that opinions are important. How seriously do you take an unsubstantiated claim?

I've been criticized for taking things to seriously but it's just a desire to optimize this game. Hascow was KILLED after all. Have you got no conscience???

Can you please explain the bit in bold?

"If you dont Help Dont criticize"
there's a way to critic constructively that has an intended goal. There's another that only creates violence. We should avoid the latter. This is a game after all and I don't want to get worked up like I did before. Flaming me to get reactions is not a valid recourse. I will just ignore you and I advise anyone else to do the same. Let's play, inspect, scumhunt, retort and all that jazz... but keep up the positiviness so we can make it an enjoyable experience.

Damnit bro. Could you BE any more transparent? I'm intrigued to hear what Mastin makes of this. You quite clearly KNOW that Mastin is town, because you wouldnt defend your buddy like this. What i dont understand is the passion behind it. Are you and Mastin a couple irl?

So... what I get from this is...
1) You've JUST STATED Mastin is town by saying I KNOW mastin is town.
2) You think I'm scum buddying up to mastin (fail, you're more plain than I am for thinking that a defense means someone is scum).

the passion comes from a FEELING. I don't want mastin out at this point. I KNOW he has a lot to offer and I didnt get scum vibes from him.

Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

I don't understand you... You accuse me of buddying a TOWN mastin but then you coach me to open my mind?

anyway, it's good advice and I already started doing that. GIEFF's post was pretty good. But I'll have to do my own meta-research to get a real feeling.

It's a really exploitable theory. Not protown.

I STILL don't know where you lean...

You keep fencesitting along your whole post between Mastin and me... but when going after me you strongly imply I'm buddying him... it's pretty contradictory.
-----------------

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation. BM’s last two sentences perfectly sum up my opinion on this matter.

Sicilian Mafia:

Sensfan might be a good kill. I don't know him, but I think he is a skillful player--seems well known around the site.

As said earlier, empking/zwet have a tendency of not being very contributive, they are actually beneficial to have around. Sensfan sounds good.

Japanese Mafia:

Anyways, here's the list of people in the game with us removed and the people I want to keep around removed as well. Feel free to repost the list removing players you want to keep around so we can figure out who we want to kill on N0.

I have only played with one of them and it's an ongoing game, so I am little help here. I've seen some SensFan play before and could go for him as the kill on night 0.

later... DDD just states his proposal.

Anyways, here's my proposal for N0...

Kill: Zilla
Block: Benmage

So I don't have a clue if there's a motive or if it's just random. But I clearly remembered the sensfan kill speculation and motives by people in BOTH scumteams.
---------

I vote for who I think is Scum. That's it, that's all.
If you have any doubts about my ability to read with my gut, ask GIEFF.

Ok... But one doesnt make a lynch. If you state some good reasons you will be able to convince people (specially me, I wont go for unreasoned votes)

Discussing and stating opinions about the Night Kill = Not Fucking Healthy
Shutting the fuck up about stuff the Scum has full control over = Healthy

meh... seems like a lot of people disagree with me. I've stated my opinion about the matter. We'll have to deal with the differences.

I'm willing to go on record saying there are are not 4 Scum.

Ok. The more I hear all of you, the more I doubt my own 4 scum theory... BUT, as I've said, let's not take 3 for granted. It doesnt hurt us to think about wcs.

You really think a mod like Yaw would make a 4:11 set-up? I think it far more likely that we're dealing with a 3:12 set-up, and there's even a higher chance of 2:13 than 4:11.

I don't really know. I thought it up as if I were the mod. don't know Yaw enough because I just played a newbie game with him as mod.
--------------------
118: QFT (someone agrees with me!!! )
---------------------

Alex - if you think jumping on a Mastin wagon is "really scummy", why didn't you follow up on it at all? All you did was throw out an FOS to one of the players on the wagon, without any further questioning or prodding. Looks to me as if you don't really think the wagon is all that scummy - you just want it to fall apart from THREATS of scumminess

Because I didnt want to lose my broomhead vote... I want the guy to stop lurking or to appear and react. I can't have 2 votes so I stated my opinions in a clear way and I Fosed him. It's good enough for me. He will have to answer. Can anyone doubt that I find him scummy atm?

Then why are you so sure Mastin is town that you freak out when he gets 4 votes? That is inconsistent.

No GIEFF. I NEVER called mastin town. I just said that he doesn't seem town to me and that I don't like the cases on him.

If I think someone is Scum, and they are at L-1, absolutely I will hammer. I expect the same of everyone else in this game.

If you hammer a townsperson with that logic and you dont explain why said person is scum it's totally anti-town.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Where I say "
^ Possibly the less useless comment I've ever heard. " I mean the MOST.

[alexhans]

Mod:

Broomhead hasn't posted on site since Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:34 pm...

But you DID receive a pm confirmation?

[alexhans]

I have a question for you, alex. [...]

Benmage was mainly the waterdrop that overflowed the glass. I wasn't a fan of any of your reasonings but a 4th vote that took advantage of the tendency made me really suspicious of the whole waggon.

Bandwagons and pressure are good, no? Mastin is FAR from a lynch, no? So when you defend him so strongly, it leads me to believe that you think he is very likely to be town. If you think there is a chance he is scum, why would you risk de-railing a wagon that could cause scum-Mastin (or one of his buddies) to give up some info? If you do NOT think that he is very likely town, then attempting to de-rail his wagon becomes even scummier.

From experience when there's a big waggon like Mastin's then people start thinking he is a viable lynch and tend to forget about other people.
I think that there is a chance of EVERYONE to be scum... That doesn't mean I cant try to derail a waggon if I feel like it doesn't help town.
I can see why you would think that. BUt it's wrong. I was amazingly annoyed that a waggon formed around the player who got the game going. I felt it was a scummy waggon to remove a pro-town player.
How many times do I have to say this? I don't think mastin is scum from what I have so far and I feel that the reasons for voting him are suspicious.

And, as always, those of us who POST and are active will get fosed, voted, whatever... that proves my point exactly. That it's easier for scum to just let things flow and wait for others to post until someone may be shown as scummy.

[alexhans]

Can we stop now about the discussion with meta N0 kills?
You talked about how it isn't useless. But don't who the suspects would be according to it.

jammer... there's scum in this game that KNOW the actual motives behind the kill... listening to speculations COULD help us at some point. There's always the chance of a slip or a scummy statement.

Alex, one question. If you didn't see any reason why Mastin was voted. And scum would be jumping on the wagon if they didn't already. Why warn them the Mastin-wagon has no reasenable arguments instead of looking who blindly follows?

Am I not doing that?

[alexhans]

Thanks Yaw... I know. I just wanted to know if he had been active on site or not. But that clears it.

[alexhans]

Out of sheer interest, rather than any game relevance, have you got a link to this process taking place? Like in a quicktopic or whatever?

It's mafia 91. You COULD'VE searched for it... but here are the links...
Mafia 91
Sicilian
Japanese

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

Ok... I sized this for emphasis... THIS is one hell of a scummy statement. COnnecting the lynches of 2 players so if one them flips town the other must be looked at... Hell of a way to get 2 town players lynched with crap logic (no, I don't know if mastin is town or not but it's my current feeling).

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

1) I don't care if you think the best of you and above every player here... but you can't appeal to experience to pull of scummy actions.
2) DONT underestimate me like that. First, it's stupid. Then, it's scummy. That's called fake scumhunting. Doing something you know, would not work if you were town but you do it all the same to pretend.

Again, you consistently assume he is town. If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

Dude... I ADVERTISED this game to other players... I know what kind of setup it is... I can not imagine that you would think otherwise. Therefore your "scumhunting" is not genuine.

Lol, it wouldnt be funny if i didnt actually want you dead. And if im not willing to put my money where my mouth is, i wont be a great asset to the town now, will i?

it's funny how you feel the need to respond a lot of useless stuff and always try to paint you in a "townie" fashion.

Hasdgfas is fine for a short form. Alot of the players here i dont even know. You asking everyone to abbreviate their names,

is immensely unhelpful

Bolded for emphasis. NOTE HOW YOU ARE ATTACKING ME FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. IT'S A REPETETION ATTACK FROM EVERY SIDE EVEN TO START IMPRINTING IN PEOPLE'S MIND THAT IF YOU HAVE SO MANY THINGS (bull) AGAINST ME THEN THERE MUST BE SOMETHING...
Cool tactic. But it's not gonna work.

Also, argumenting isnt a word. Bet you wish i'd ignored that.

We all make mistakes. "Argumentar" is a word in spanish. My bad.

Yep, i've never made any attempt to deny that it seems scummier from my perspective, because i know that the conclusion of such a policy will NOT result in a scum lynch. So of course there is an element of OMGUS. But anyone can see that it is logically flawed, and you yourself must realise that with people like you tailing Mastin like a lost little puppy dog, the rest of us are BOUND to be edgy about craplogic actually leading somewhere.

All I'm reading from this is

preventive

voting. You don't actually think we are scummy. You just want to avoid getting lynched.

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution,

but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me

. What annoys me is,

i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn

, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

HAH!

OK PEOPLE! check this out ^^

I wonder why people complain about NK speculation and then say that no one is complaining about setup speculation (Most of us chipped in about the number of scum) and BM decides to think, now, not before, that I'm scummey for it even though from his own point of view is ilogical so he quickly makes up a theory where I'm a SUPER WIFOMER or a unnecesary gloater.

I dunno how much clearer i can be. You're wrong. Please stop wasting everybody's time.

... you won't flame me up. So don't try. Anyway, I would advise you to stop with the agressive tone.

What is the obsession with the RVS about? It's like you portray it as something bad, when in reality, it serves us just fine. Granted, this conversation has induced discussion, but if it wasnt for Mastin, you wouldnt be in this position right now. Maybe you should think again as to whether his plan was quite so good.

I've never played a game without RVS. RVS can be a very easy path for experienced players (and I know there's a lot of them here) that can choose to excuse any scummy action because it was RVS... (ehem, Vote on Mastin, ehem)

IIRC there's some important experienced players who say that there's no need for RVS so it's not Mastin's innovative plan. It's something that has been done.

I don't care in wich position you're trying to imply I am. I'm in no bad position. You're just trying to portrait it as if I were.

Personally speaking, i only left the RVS with my vote for you. I expect the vast majority are still there, because you dont have anywhere near enough votes.

see? You excuse your mastin vote as RVS... You KEEP pushin my case in the worst possible way. Without

#71 BM's vote on mastin
Mastin NEVER responded... YET, BM unvoted and voted me... scumhunting?

Pure, unadulterated OMGUS

NO man... If this is OMGUS Then why isn't omgus what you did to mastin? Come on... I'm just questioning your motives. I didn't jump at you for voting me. But the you keep acting in scummy ways to push a case that really doesn't exist.

Ask any other player here if they find your consistent protests about the number of scum wierd, and every single one (probably even your buddies, if they have any sense) will agree with me.

Here is where we draw a line between peculiar and scummy. My actions were not scummy. My actions were Alexhans. I explained my actions. You already made up your mind or are bullshitting so you never tried to logically think about them to realize I was telling the truth and that it was not scummy.

You're just squirming now. lol

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

Again. PROPAGANDA won't work.

What's with all the rhetorical questions??

I know SF has a strong personality. I'm just testing the waters. What's wrong with them, anyway? are you just adding fluff to an otherwise lame case?

I'm pointing out that you arent really acting in a protown manner. Rhetorical questions are a classic method of persuasion-you arent trying to find scum, you are trying to make someone look scummier than they actually are. You do it again here. You're trying to come across as an aggressive townie, but it's pretty apparent that it is just a front.

So... YOur question was just a rhetorical question to point I'm scummy? Kudos on the scumhunting then...
You're wrong on all accounts I am and WILL try to find scum and not let anyone fly silently under the radar. I'm gonna look everywhere. I'm not gonna decide on the spur of a moment but will try to analize the whole picture. I am and WILL scumhunt so you saying otherwise is a lie.

Lmfao. Confirm Vote: Alex

You cant seriously try and tell me that you believe this Mastin bullcrap is consistent with your own confession-that you might have killed someone random who you dont know? xD

It's amazing. A post full of redundant "I'm convinced, look at me" tactics.
I don't see why that quote would make you confirm my vote. It's just advertisement. I don't believe anybody's bullcrap. I can find something to be plausible, possible, probable or not and I think for myself, thank you.

Haha, dont kid yourself bro. YOU aren't going to lynch ME, full stop.

Love the confidence. I was thinking along the same lines about me. But, you know... Anyone can get lynched. Maybe not today. But you can't hide yourself behind experience. If you're scum, you're scum. No matter how many games you've played or how good your rep is.

Please have the courtesy of quoting the entire backlog of conversation. I have a life outside of the game, and making me go back and read extra every time i come on, is not very friendly.

Ok. I was trying to keep things as shorter as possible but I will do it from now on.

Ftr, i do apologise if i offended you on a personal level. I just get really annoyed when people say stuff that is clearly wrong. When i disagree with you, just back down, and we'll get on fine. *hugs*

The thing is. That either you're wrong, I'm wrong or you're scum. So I can't let you go on with stuff that is not how I think it is.

If you had meta-ed me... you would find that I usually try to coach everyone into playing in a way wich I think is the optimal way... I may be mistaken but it's what I think is good. A player can take it or leave it.

Got a link for me here?

My wiki is up to date. (only missing Mini 799 - One Flew Over A Cuckoo's Nest, wich was abandoned.)

In any case, my vote was not without reason. Mastin came right out of the gate pushing an argument that was not only completely illogical, but was also likely to lead to the lynch of AT LEAST 1, and possibly 3 or 4, townies. What do you expect me to do?

Ok. I didnt take it that seriously but I guess it's somewhat valid to vote for him. But... would you lynch him for it?

If i intended to lynch him for it, you'd think i'd still be voting for him now, no?

Then why did you vote for him?

By that token, you should be voting for VP Baltar. I seem to recall you saying that he was unreadable.

Well... it's always an option. Although no one is TOTALLY unreadable. He is just hard to read but in both games I played I had a mild scum read on him. The problem is proving your feelings.

The only way you can claim that Mastin destroyed the RVS, is if you assume that he is scum, and/or the wagon on him is legitimate. You don't seem to believe this, thus you cannot claim that we have left the RVS.

what??? I don't follow your logic that the only way in wich RVS was destroyed is if mastin is scum... Could you rephrase it in a way a 5 year old could understand?

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage.

If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

OK... this seems like Twisted logic 101...

^^ READ THAT TWICE OR THRICE OR AS MANY TIMES AS YOU NEED TO AND TRY TO DISENTANGLE THE MESS

1) Every waggon that forms out of the RVS did not necessarily find scum.
2) Typically, there's a waggon on the active player for being so agressive. I've experienced that it's adequately pushed by scum.
3) The bolded part is contradictory BS from yourself who have tried to paint me as scum buddying up to mastin.

btw, BM, when did you stop beating your wife?

When she got a restraining order. How the f*** did you know about that?!?!?

2. You admitted above that defending someone looks scummy. Ive been nailed for it in the past, so if you're town, you have my sympathy. But, your buddying is based on nothing, and is completely illogical. You've basically decided he is town off the bat, and then used that claim to lead your suspicions.

No. my suspicions came from the way in wich the waggon form. It's reasons. The quickness of it. I hadn't found anything that indicated mastin-scum and you were all voting the active player for a STRATEGY? yes. Voting someone for an hypothesis was scummy.

If you're town, you should see what i see. Or thats how i view things anyway.

The thing is... I'm trying to decide if you're scum or not based on all the inconsistencies and scummy things you seem to try to pull to get my lynch (endless propaganda too). But I think that this whole conversation has and will be useful in the future. Now we need to keep discussing between ourselves but also encourage EVERYONE to look for stuff to discuss, either out of BM-Alexhans, or inside. But no one can stay silent.
-----------------------------------

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

VP... I don't think he forgot about the setup. It was either a lame underestimation or a lame attempt to pretend he was scumhunting. Either way... laaaaaaame.
-----------------------------------

haha, you make it sound so scary. I'm capable of thinking 2 moves ahead, if thats what you're actually asking. Wink
At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

It IS scary. The last time I saw somebody make nested assumptions like that, he was scum. It's much easier for scum to pretend to look a step ahead, because they are ALREADY SURE of the first step (i.e. sure of player 1's alignment, so they pretend to use that assumption to make "guesses" about others' alignments, whereas townies would NOT make these nested assumptions so readily, especially not so early in the game).

GIEFF has a BIG point here. I've seen this attitude in some other games too. Conditioned lynches.
-----------------------------------

UNVOTE

I follow this alex-bm battle with interest.

Camn.... I advise you to question anyone of us if you're interested instead of watching it from the side. Or question other people, or whatever... We need more input.

Also... Why aren't you lurkerwaggoning Whooo!!! as you usually do IIRC?
-----------------------------------

B) I >AM < here to make friends. Check my meta if you want to build a case on those grounds.

-----------------------------------
Me too... GO camn!
-----------------------------------

Now, my town games......
Let me point out whom I buddied with in each game.. and PLEASE explain to me why you are only noticing in my scum games?

DGB, I am going to allow you a LITTLE bit of soft-claiming... but that is because I like you.

YOu know I will lynch you, right Zwet? I like you, but that doesn't mean you need to live.

Tenchi.. I am going to do my best to run you up to a lynch.....
PS.. I like your picture.

Camn... None of this is buddying... The only one close to buddying is the first one because you allow him to softclaim (even though you think is scummy?) but the other 2 are definetly not... you're trying to LYNCH them for god's sake!!!
Ok... the rest of them... Some are, some are not... but I see your point... specially remembering 799...

I skimmed all of those games, which I picked randomly. I do not think my "case" (I wouldn't even call it that) is strong, and I am not shoving it down your throat. You asked me to look into your meta, so I did. Why are you reacting so strongly?

I endorse this question.
------------------------------------

At the very least, we want an Alex claim here.

What do you think the results of this forced claim would be?

At this point, i wouldnt put anything past him.

BM

meaning?

If you're a cop, you should claim now, and save us some time.

First, this is a mountainous set up. There are only goons and vanilla. Second, if we did have powerroles, this is a horrible idea and is blatantly you rolefishing.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

*facepalm*

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

ohhhh.... riiiight.... It was A "Trap"... Now I know where you got that rep from... Your awesome traps that wouldn't work even if I was scum!!!
------------------------------------------

Masking your over-reaction with a joke, I see. You even went so far as to edit out the part of my quote that mentioned your over-reaction.

lol.
------------------------------------------

Voting off lurkers is more important then voting scummy players? Where is your priority?

Not where yours is, apparently. Look. When I voted. It was an RVS vote (I give a crap reason for my RVS votes so I can get a reaction, instead of the typical Vote A because he smells like socks) to try and see how the guy reacted. Later on... I awaited patiently for "the ghost's" return so I could question him about anything and try to get a read on him. In a mountanious game, we can not afford lurkers. Also, I don't need to vote to question a scummy player nor I need to find someone scummy to question him...

I'm well aware of the setup thanks. Whether Alex was or not, im not so sure. Why would you not let the trap play out?

BM

Do you think the "If you're cop, claim now" trick has a high rate of succes?

lol. It's hard to picture BM being so naive as town.
-------------------------------------------

Though I wasn't as clear in my post(s) in retrospect as I remembered, but I assume people would only remove players they knew from the list and then from that list I randomly selected one. As it stands, I've never played with Zilla and I sent in the kill on him. So I find the Alex/Mastin theories to be more than a little short-sighted.

But, still, many scum in that game suggested Sensfan kill because he might be dangerous. It's not a totally invalid theory.
-------------------------------------------

broomhead has requested replacement. I'll get on that tomorrow. Shouldn't take too long to fill the spot.

Good.

unvote

. Vi is coming to this game!!!
-------------------------------------------

Let's talk scenarios here. Say this game wasn't mountainous, and i was asking for a roleclaim. How is that scummy play?

With just one vote on me... it's TERRIBLY scummy. Trying to expose or a cop. Or trying to narrow down the cop pool.

If you have any familiarity with my play, you'd know that outright asking for a roleclaim would merely be a BM-tell. Maybe a mild town-tell? I'm not sure.

lol... so you try to pull scummy meta to protect yourself? XD

Did Alex recruit Mastin? Because that might explain his odd loyalty to him. I'm surprised you haven't brought this up.

My odd loyalty comes from my games with him and the fact that I believe him to be a great asset for town and a great detriment to scum. I have yet to see him as scum but I think that if he is indeed scum I might be able to find out sooner or later (before losing, I mean ).
Also, by recruiting you mean what exactly??? there's townies and scum... no cults, no recruiting masons... no nothing... What are you trying to say?

I still think Alex might have slipped were it not for your comment.

And why would you assume that?
-------------------------------------------

Vote stands btw. I love the way suddenly people jump up to defend Alex when the charge is something other than scummy play

what? explain because you're being unclear. Why do you think people are "defending" me? They're just stating what they know... I INVITED many of them to this game. IF they were, in fact, defending me... what do you think it would mean?
-------------------------------------------

The pressure on BM is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

It had a >0% chance of helping the Town, by outing a Scum
It had a 0% chance of hurting the Town

How the fuck can you call that scummy?

Is that all?
IMO, it's either a lame trap... As BM says. Or a lame way of trying to appear scumhunting.
-------------------------------------------

There is no incentive for Mafia to blatantly out a Cop on Day 1, with the strong likelihood of Doc-protection. If anything, Scum want the Cop to remain unclaimed. I honestly dont think you've thought this through at all. Take the blindfold off.

yeah... unless mafia has an RB... but it doesn't matter... I don't think you forgot about the setup so this line of discussion is not necessary.
------------------------------------------

[alexhans]

NOTE: I WILL try to make posts shorter from know on.

[alexhans]

I actually tried... I need to check this more often and write shorter posts...

GIEFF pointed a couple of things in a meta search and camn reacted very strongly calling it a crapcase and voting GIEFF when it was not

PS, GIEFF..... you have already totally proven that you don't really understand how to use Meta.... so any meta arguments you might bring are pretty worthless, IMO.

quotes like this one ^^ make camn sound really strange because she doesn't seem to imply she think GIEFF is scummy. It's more like he pissed her off or something.

You have no idea what town-camn would do.
You have proven this.

Everything you have written is insane speculation... you need to be more clear.

Are you asking where I was this weekend?

camn... why are you acting like empking? like a stubborn kid that knows deep inside that he is wrong? You over reacted to some points he made.

He said you looked like buddying and he metaed you...
You totally overreacted and voted him but never called him scummy.
#185 is lame camn... what are those 2 crapcases you claim that GIEFF made? What does your birthday have to do with the fact that you posted but were most unhelpful and odd?

Everything I have written is speculation, but calling it insane does not make it insane, no more than calling my posts crapcases is enough to make them crappy. Yet once again, I feel that your focus is not on calling me scummy - you only call my cases crap because you want to protect yourself

QFT. You don't seem to find him scummy. Yet, a vote.
187: Camn... You're REALLY starting to give me Emp-vibes... what's wrong with you?
"When I totally refuted and destroyed your case (in 149), I asked YOU some questions.. which you have totally ignored. "??? what the fuck??? You say nothing here... You just cover your ears and yell...
"YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!"

#189: So Kai? Not one suspicion?

Uhh, okay wow…uhm hop of his dick. The caps adds to anything?

They express my annoyance.

3-4 votes in this large game isn’t a dreadful wagon, so chill.

I know it's not THAT big but it does set a tendency that I'm trying to avoid. Look how some people already thought this in terms of:
Today's topics:
1) BM vs Alexhans
2) GIEFF vs Camn
Wooooooh!! let's ignore everything else!!!!
My point is that if you waggon someone then it's starts to be an acceptable lynch at the end of the day.

And where the hell is Mastin by the way? I'm expecting him to post. He was active on site...

Alexhans, why so upset about Mastin being bandwagoned?

I see no reasons for voting him but atacking the first one who makes something to move the game. He is acting as he usually does and his auto-clearing doesn't seem scummy to me. Just mastin's personality. I should check a game where he is scum to have more information but from what I have now he is not scummy.

I'm not liking a fast waggon on an active, pro town player...

We should worry about those who DONT post or post null opinions and keep discussing everything...

Acting the same way one does when town doesn’t clear them.

??? explain...

Agreed. Ironically, Alex mentions M91 as solid reason for NK speculation, noting that Sens’ N0 death wasn’t random. Except the other scum group, which I was a part of, removed everyone we played with from the player list and then randomly killed from that list N0 as to throw off townies trying to do this exact kind of speculation.

WOW*****can we lynch Mastin yet?

Read my Quicktopic quotes and tell me if all the kills are random and who has made his point regarding the killing motives.

First this whole ‘big post’ seems like alex took some chill pills and may be trying to relax off the MASTIN is confirmed town mentality, which is an odd quick switch.

let's clear something up...
You think I think Mastin is confirmed town?
Did you read the NutSoCaps? Read it again... maybe you'll see that I NEVER ignore the possibility that he may be scum... I was just annoyed at an unreasoned (IMO, and I still dont see much besides he's apparent clearing himself) quickwaggon and the fact that it was built upon the most active player at the time. Wich is something I hate about mafia. When active players get attacked for being active and scum may safely glide around.

Also my vote forced? What the fuck does that even mean. Are you suggesting that the 3-4 of us on Mastin all plotted to vote quickly and wagon him. No scum would ever do that. Don’t be an idiot.

If you haven't fully understood what I mean. Don't call me an idiot.

Vote Forced means that you try to make your vote sound convinced and strong when you really don't feel it. You don't even talk much about mastin in the post where you voted him but still did at the end... You jumped on a full growing waggon without much thought? cool. Very pro town.

motives for a mastin vote from Benmage:

a) Mastin may be scum and may be acting ilogically
b) He's going after Battle Mage.
c) ...
d) there's not even a c) man... do you expect a d)?

later, you develop on matin that he seemed to try to auto-clear himself.

And that's it...
Now you feel that those points are good enough to push his vote.

Simply saying "I like you" isn't enough to be buddying, in my opinion.

I agree.

I was not reacting particularly strongly, in my opinion.

Camn... you voted him... and acted all "Angry"... Any you keep ad homin him with no explanation when all the cases you quoted as you buddying as town were all subject to opinion.

I made no Joke. You attest I made a joke.. but I see no smiley face. Your assumption is wrong. Probably it is just a lie. Thus, again, you are simply trying to change the subject, and it doesn't deserve anything but my scorn and disdain.

riiiiight... Because we know that you only make jokes with smileys beside them...

I'm so much more on GIEFF's side of this conversation... You have been completely stubborn, ilogical and evasive.

@Camn: Who do you think is scum? (Besides GIEFF if you actually think he is)

I fully endorse the battle mage wagon.

I was reading you as being more critical of being alex. Was I wrong about this?

if you quote the whole thing you will see that it is a joke.

Spyrex has 2 posts, and no votes or FOSs.
Cephrir has 3 non-"will catch up later" posts, and none since 4 days ago.
Sensfan has just 1 vote, in his very first post in the thread, which he refuses to explain. This is particularly odd for a player who calls himself "very aggressive", and who is active in other games.

I agree with this. We all have to be active... Spyrex is on V/LA till 20... I'm gonna ask the mod to replace him... 12 straight days without playing (especially on day 1) hurts this game a great deal. There's good players waiting out there.

I'm not liking Sensfan's attitude of not adding practically anything and acting as if he had psychic powers that could solve this game whenever he wanted...

He is supposed to be confrontational but is not using it to scumhunt... He seems to be playing his role...

It doesnt apply more to Mastin than to Alex. Mastin is the kind of player that will happily shake things up at the start of the game, just for the sake of saying "OMGZ, I KILLED THE RVS". Alex on the other hand, does not have the same meta excuse in my book. The fact he agrees, but hides behind Mastin's coat-tails, seems scummier, dont ya think?

When are you gonna read???!!! dude... I SAID I never played in a game without RVS!! Obviously I don't have any related meta... I thought RVS it was the way to go but seeing the amount of experienced players I liked this turn of events where we got serious from the start.

[*]

Alex is desperate to push the 4 scum theory, yet town should be cautious.

This is incorrect – it is actually MORE cautious to leave the door open to the possibility of 4 scum.

Erm, i didnt even say this. GG reading comprehension. xD

yes you did.

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

Haha, what?? This is going a little downhill now bro. Given everything that has occurred, what is not scummy about asserting Mastin is protown under so little evidence?

Let's clear something up...
Pro-Town: He acts in a way that helps town. Not lurking, scumhunting, etc. (this can be faked by good scum)
Anti-Town: He acts in a way that is a detriment to town. Lurking. Evading questions. Tunnel vision. etc.

Both of this can be town or scum. The important thing is that if there's a pro-town scum we have a lot of info to search from his posts making it still useful.
If all town players were pro-town. That would force scum players to act accordingly to hide amongst them. Then, it would be very hard for them to win.

I asserted Mastin is pro-town. I didn't assert his allignment is town.

And, also, why do you assert I'm scum under so little reasoning and why do you use that reasoning to chain the assertion that Mastin is town?

The thing is, if you dont think Alex's panicked defence of Mastin was scummy, then i wouldnt expect you to agree with the case on him, because that is pretty much the cornerstone of it.

dude... If, as you say, I'm scum... and Mastin is town... why the fuck woudld I panic? I could only have a motive of panic if I we both were scum or we both were town and I strongly suspected him to be town...

Also, skimming down your post-what do you feel required response in post 144? As far as i am concerned, suggesting an anti-pairing is hardly anything to get edgy about.

No... Anti pairing can get 2 town players lynched... If you think mastin's NK theory is BS... then Antipairing should be much more BS. It's like when you say... well if player A doesn't die tonight then he is scum... Obv, scum won't kill him knowing you will be foolish enough to lynch him the next day.

lmao. Is saying "bro" a well known scumtell these days?

BM

Yes! It totally is!!! You should be dismembered and fed to rottweilers.

Sensfan has just 1 vote, in his very first post in the thread, which he refuses to explain. This is particularly odd for a player who calls himself "very aggressive", and who is active in other games.

That's a massive misrep. I describe myself as extremely aggressive. Not as vote-happy.

But since you seem to care so much, here's a second one:

Vote: GIEFF

Is GIEFF Scum, Sensfan?
Who do you think is scummy?

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

I'm much more wary of the following group:
Sensfan, Battle Mage.

Why are you not explaining ANYTHING? I knew I would end up fighting with you... but you can not continue to play like this and expect someone to follow you...
You're not Sherlock Holmes, your allignment is not confirmed town. So you will have to play like everybody else and explain your posts...

Why am I possible scum? Why is jammer possible scum? and why is GIEFF possible scum?
That goes to you to camn... Don't say that BM is scummier or we are both townies or whatever without explaining.

I pity the Town if none of you are Scum. That, and I don't think its possible for all 3 of you to be that scummy, but still Town.

lol... already excusing the fact that you might be mistaken? nice.
why is GIEFF scummier than jammer or me?

How could I possibly know if there is exactly one? This is the type of stuff that put you on the list.

ohh... so scumhunting puts him on the list.... cool.

Why should i know that you advertised this game to people? Need i point out that i was not among this elite group?

You need not. But there were hints in the sign up thread that you, apparently, didn't get.

Preventive isnt a word either

I meant preemptive Mrs.Magda.

Have you never considered that townies might be concerned about being lynched, and hence be paranoid about those who want to lynch them being scum? It's natural.

I know. I don't want to be lynched, ever. But did mastin's theory meant he was scum? Or are you saying that you prefer to remove a threat to you no taking into account his allignment?

You're contradicting your own assessment of me. First you claim that im insinuating you are scummy, then you admit that i acknowledge there isnt a scum motive for doing so, unless you are just lying at every turn. Super Wifomer? Who's getting tunnel-visioned OMGUS now? lmao

...
dude... I don't even know what to say to you... your sentence doesn't make sense... although you manage to paint me as either an idiot or a liar without explaining anything. Then... you call me tunnel visioned???? me??

I'm not even gonna respond to that...

I'm looking at everyone. I haven't voted you (still). I'm trying to look at all players. I'm trying to read a whole game and not just one quote or one moment. I'm definetly NOT tunnelvisioned and not OMGUSing because I never voted you. I'm just pointing the scummy and fake things about your case.

There are other alternative game starts, but effectively, random-voting is something of a given. By your own assessment, Mastin did not kill the RVS then?

BM... you're not a lawyer so quit acting like one... lame questions suck. Mastin did kill the RVS IMO. I agreed to the decease of the RVS. There was already a couple of things to talk about.

Haha, this does feel a little like a conspiracy. But i got that impression from the sign-up thread anyway. At some point, the group who came in together will have to start looking at each other critically.

lol... are you scared? I invited a lot of players here. I know that the odds of all of them being scum must be amazingly low, so I won't even think about it. I'll just play a normal game. I invited people I thought would be active and would make this an enjoyable experience.

why would i need a response? Are you learning Mafia out of a textbook? lol

I'm writing it. I'll give it to you as a present on your birthday.

Ask any other player here if they find your consistent protests about the number of scum wierd, and every single one (probably even your buddies, if they have any sense) will agree with me.

Here is where we draw a line between peculiar and scummy. My actions were not scummy. My actions were Alexhans. I explained my actions. You already made up your mind or are bullshitting so you never tried to logically think about them to realize I was telling the truth and that it was not scummy.

Funny how you can play this card for yourself, but have no tolerance for my playstyle.

That was my point exactly. You excused your actions as playstyle but not mine...

Telling the truth? How can you possibly be telling the truth about something you cannot possible know, UNLESS YOU ARE SCUM? *facepalm*

wtf man? you just don't learn do you? You keep trying to go for semantics out of context? Do you even READ what you're saying? It seems to me like you read a sentence and say whatever BS comes to your mind.

That's funny coming from Mr. Monstro-Post. Also, you really think the Nazi Minister for Propaganda and Enlightenment is a reliable source to quote? haha

BM missed a point ONCE AGAIN!
Yes, I'm comparing you to him!!!! you're using the same tactics.

You havent responded to the point at all, you're merely trying to play it down. Please feel free to actually explain why you defend Mastin's point about N0 speculation being valuable, whilst acknowledging that you might kill randomly, were you scum.

I can't anymore man... READ BACK...

It's a valid source of investigation. It's not a foolproof theory to lynch someone but it's STILL good and discussion about is very healthy IMO. Didn't you read the first options I gave before random? One was a rep kill (SensFan), the other was Mastin (I admire his scumhunting), then it came a random one... But, as always, you only look a little piece and not at the full picture.

You seem to have a mild obsession with Cops.

huh?

But, moving past that, the 1 vote, was mine. Therefore, its perfectly legit for me to request a claim, if i feel you ought to be lynched.

I'm not gonna follow up on this because it won't take us anywhere but...
come on...

Don't be a douche. Did you recruit Mastin for this game?

ohhh!!! I see what you mean now... lol... Yes. I did invite him to the game.

I invited:
qwints, StrangerCoug, VPBaltar, molestargazer, Vi, Shanba, Stephoscope, Kairyuu, Zachrulez, Mastin, WhiteCastle, Firestarter, KublaiKhan, Korlash, orangepenguin, RedCoyote, Battousai, camn and DebonairDannyDiPietro.

I've only played one game with most of this people... And I don't think they will think of me implicitly as town... The "support" that you claim they gave me was because you pretended I didn't know the setup when I advertised it to them stating clearly that it was a mountanious game... NO PR's involved. I even called it the real deal mafia or something
-------------------

Alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's a Scum in that group.

Could you explain the reasoning behind it?

I pity the Town if none of you are Scum. That, and I don't think its possible for all 3 of you to be that scummy, but still Town.

And with a scum you mean only one, or atleast one.

How could I possibly know if there is exactly one? This is the type of stuff that put you on the list.

I lol'd.

Unvote, Vote: Gieff

Might as well put my vote somewhere useful.

BM

... , ... and more ...

wTf, WTF and wtF?

May I ask why did you vote GIEFF? How is it useful? do you think he is scum? Why? Are you certain he is scum?
--------------------------

Oh ya duh..confusing games I’m in. So than the point of Alex Knowing Mastin as town could be because he’s scum.

dude... are you that lost? So BM asking for a claim didn't bother you at all? weird. Rolefishing is not scummy?

Post 174…That was painfully filled with fluff. Disclaimer of fluff at top next time please.

No... I was responding to BM's bullshit.

Most of his argument seemed like bantering nitpicky fluff. There were a few decent points.

I think he was suggesting one point of view wherein Alex could be scum.

If that was the case in this specific point of view Mastin would almost certaintly be town. He continues to express that in this perspective if Alex flips town, all assumptions of Mastin would be dropped and we’d return to our previous positions on Mastin before analyzing this Alex point of view. (Which were scummy opinions of Mastin)

BM acted "certain" that I was scum in all of his posts...
------------------------
- Vi and RedCoyote were willing to play.

Mod: Did you let Vi know that we need him to replace in?
are you considering replacing SpyreX? Will the deadline give us enough time for him to catch up and give us enough input?

[alexhans]

ok... seriously... no more wall posts... I'm gonna ignore BM when he makes little bs points... and try to speak more generally about whole posts...

[alexhans]

Jammer: Maybe BM vs Alexhans got a bit personal. But there's the fact that he pushed my case trying to appear convinced all the time only to uvote later. Many of the things he tried to use as arguments were just fluff. He is an important suspect but with so few input from many other players that's hardly conclusive. I want everybody to play before I decide who must get lynched.

HI KMD!

I have recently discovered that Mastin's scum meta is to fall behind and lurk. I might not be opposed to his lynch given I have seen this prove accurate twice.

I think it can be a null tell for now. He may be trying to catch up. He replaced into a game I co-modded where he posted several times saying he was going to catch up but that he was busy and was finally killed at night without having said anything relevant to the game. 791 Beard Mafia.

I support ANY lurkerlynch.

YET. Unlike you, you never jumped on lurkers like broomhead and don't vote for them now.

I didn't read mastin's posts but I assume he was catching up...

Mod: Prod him, please...

I just realized that my Monday and your Monday are different things... stupid spherical Earth.

lol.

Ah yeah, sorry. Timezone differences didn't occur to me. Oh well, check out the links I provided and you can see that as scum he isn't a very good player. He falls behind and promises to catch up but really just continues to lurk.

Again. Look at Beard Mafia.. How many games have you metaed?

Hi. Who is scum?

probably you.

KMD...did you even read before voting Cephir?

Mmk. You've passed the test.

Apparently you didn't notice, but this is a Mountainous setup. If you had claimed a power role you would be confirmed scum. That you didn't means that you were either not willing to risk a counterclaim, or that you are actually town.

Kai... how do we know she didn't notice? Is she town then?

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

I think IRC would suit you man... You don't say anything and yet expect us to think you have a reason.

Since when you suspect Mastin???

All you people asking me to write novels about why I suspect who I do, its not going to happen. This is how I play, and I'm right a whole lot more often than I was when I wrote novels.

ok...
Not giving reasons why you vote is like never leaving RVS...

Besides, I think I've made it fairly obvious why I suspect all 4 of the above. If you really have no idea, read the thread. If you still have no idea, and you've done what you feel is enough looking into the matter on your own, then you can ask me.

Using other people's arguments to suspect people...

Being so unhelpful you're not a good asset to town. You could hide forever behind this crappy attitude. Not willing to let that happen.

Vote SensFan

Why suspicious of Mastin all of the sudden? I don't see you state any reasons why he is scum.

let's say it is convenient for him... He admits that he votes for him because he is on the biggest waggon.

Meh, that is quite clear.
SensFan says he agrees with the reasoning others gave(in the thread), between his last 2 posts. He is sheeping on the new insights on Mastin.

dude... since when we allow players to just state vaguely that they agree with others in general and then vote without giving a single reason for their random banter. He continually uses his supposed skills to excuse his lack of scumhunting and participation.

Mastin is at L-2, by the way. Just in case 2 people "don't notice" in succession.

[alexhans]

More than you apparently. I believe it was benmage who put it best, and I'm paraphrasing, but why don't you 'hop off Mastin's dick'.

Seriously, stop being his babysitter unless you're his scum partner...in which case please continue and we'll lynch you tomorrow.

I knew that this was going to go on like that...

I'll ask again, so please answer. How many games have you meta-ed?

I'll do what I want. NO one's gonna bully me to stop thinking what I do.

You seem to ignore sentences like these:

I'm seeing from Mastin's meta that he falls behind and lurks generally regardless of his alignment.

-------------------------------------------

Note - alex has upgraded his Mastin-defense strategy from NutSoCaps and an FoS to the chainsaw.

Why would I defend mastin... You're not attacking him with new stuff... you're just voting for him...

Now, some of you seem to be deciding that mastin's non-posting is scummy... and, still, he is not the only one... What about Cephir?

what has changed since my NutSoCaps (L-4) to (L-2)??? Basically nothing... I still don't view him as scummy and am eagerly awaiting his post. The one good point about him may be that he seemed to be trying to autoclear himself.

Other than that. I DONT find his proposal about NK speculation scummy. Sensfan's and BM's scared reactions, however, may be of note.

[alexhans]

@alex--if you were reading the thread you'd see how many games (and which ones, at that) I metaed to come to my conclusion. It was more than the one example you provided. thx.

I saw it. I just wanted to see if there was any other.

2 games + 1 ongoing. Ok. (You ignored the games where he was town and lurked?)

I did ignore Zach's sentence because I find that the evidence points much more towards it being a scumtell for him rather than a null tell.

I'd seriously recommend reading Mastin's wiki... He specifically talks about his getting behind on games.

If he is lurking and, as you say, it is a scumtell... are you guys willing to lynch him before he posts again? What if it took him a whole week to do it? Would you lynch him then?

[alexhans]

So... SensFan... Camn... the idea is to shut it as longer as you can so you can easyly glide through the first stages of the game and not be suspected of anything. If everyone played like you this would not be a game.

In reference to the Beard Mafia game you reference, you conveneintly fail to recognize that he replaces into it 14 pages after it start, ie already behind before he makes a single post.

I thought Id said it. With so many games to catch up`after a V/LA. It seems plausible that he needs time to catch up.

Anyway. Mastin Posted. So you should read what HE posted and look at his reasons.

Ok... VP... say what you want. Mastin lurks as scum... yeah... yeah... We'll pull subjective meta to add reasons to lynch him...

What's bothering me about Alex's defense of Mastin was how he clinged to me saying that I thought the falling behind and lurking was null, but ignored what followed which was me citing my problems with his nightkill speculation, which I found to be more striking than the lurking point.

Zach, I didn't ignore it. But it was not relevant to my talk with VP Baltar.

Most of you seem to think that NK speculation is scummy. By that token you not only have to suspect Mastin but me and some others too...

Do you always suspect those who NK speculate? ehh zach? In all your games? I guess not. Because when Panzer told us it was scummy to speculate about it in Mini 761 we all went against him.

And for the record. There's 2 games (One that I know of, the other is wiky hearsay) where Mastin lurks as town.

And let's all recall what I said about setting a tendency. Right now. Mastin is at L-2. The points haven't changed but now we are using "lurking" after V/LA wich he at least explained as scummy enough to keep voting him based on previous suspicions about him speculating on Night kills...

That's not a good case to me. It wasn't earlier. It's not gonna be now.

As I said. A good point may be that he tried to autoclear himself but no more than that.
------------------
I'm loving how this game is always monotematic... With 12 or so players just hiding safely around a topic... always...

[alexhans]

Oh what a lie!

You are totally misleading this group of players by trying to represent that it was the primary reason I voted to lynch Panzer in that game.

Zach... I don't frigging care if they listen to me or not. I'm just asking you why is the situation with mastin different. Why do you have different standings regarding a similar situation.

If you recall the way the events unfolded, I was FINE with Panzer's suspicions on the NK speculation, and was in agreement with him that it was scummy. EVERYONE ELSE in the game went against him for that and I ultimately voted for him because he fake claimed as a vanilla townie and his claim didn't add up.

Yes... I agree you didn't go after Panzer until he fake claimed watcher (although he was vanilla town). BUT, you didn't act the same way regarding Night Kill Speculation.
Zach IsO 57:
-Panzer votes steph
-Steph says "...excuse me? That kind of hastiness is going to lose the game. Care to explain why you're so quick with that vote and why it's supposedly so "obvious"?"
-Zach: "it's hard to say because he doesn't give a reason, but a lot of the obviousness has to do with Amished being one of the night kills I think.

Start up that WIFOM machine! "

I think you are stretching a bit and most certainly OMGUSing Steph. I can see both sides of the argument in this instance. I believe Panzer's reaction comes from a position of not wanting to risk power role tells being dropped in NK conversation, which would benefit the scum.

I happen to disagree with how scummy night kill discussion is, but I can certainly see where Panzer is coming from.

-----
Now look at your first post in this game:

Anyway, I'm not really liking the speculation on the NK that's coming from Mastin. Him and Camm are sticking out to me as potential scum right now.

Why is it worse if mastin speculates about nightkills?

Your vote post states that you suspect him because of his attempt to clear himself. That may be more valid. But the whole thing about speculating is just odd.

FOS: Alexhans

cool... I'm fosed... why? because someone is edgy.

I my call it... the camn effect. He who faces inquiry instantly suspects the one who is investigating him...
--------------------

Anyway, I AM writing off my lack of scumhunting to early-game weakness. I don't know who the scum are. I don't put much credence in RVS 'scumslips'.

being lazy can be a scum excuse. and I thought we had left the RVS a long time ago.

The only time I can remember ever getting scum Day 1 is on lurkerlynches... This is my least favorite part of every game.

woah... So you never succeeded in finding scum on day 1? odd... anyway... why aren't you voting a lurker then?
-------------------

W.t.f? Why race this push? What will the claim accomplish? Or what are you looking to gain from it?

Oh God! You've got to be kidding me...

THIS GAME IS VANILLA AND SCUM ONLY! LETS STOP MAKING BULL POSTS AROUND IT. WE ALL KNOW THE SETUP

No, he’s going with his “gut” cause that’s how he plays!

Are you confortable with letting people just say gut or QFT for a case?
--------------------

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage[/size]

Oh wow, you are good at this game...what was i thinking.

hey... I think it's "gut"... that's how she plays...

[alexhans]

EBWOP: It may not be clear but I added 761 Zach quotes over there.

[alexhans]

sigh...

[alexhans]

Get it out of your system... I'm not defending Mastin... (Not entirely, at least ) I'm still in awe about the way in wich his waggon formed.... Night Speculation is not wrong IMO but no one jumped at me for saying it.

While I suspected Mastin for not posting it didn't make me confident that he is scum like many of the people who just hopped on his waggon seem to think.

I think that he MUST answer all the questions raised against him and develop on his thoughts about who should we lynch or, at least, who is scummy and why(as other people like SensFan should do).

Zach... I'm not set on anyone town. Remember I warned toy about that when you spoke about jammer. But if I see strange movements and reasonings in Mastin's waggon I'll note them.

[alexhans]

Kai... how do we know she didn't notice? Is she town then?

she?!?

Mixed up KMD Camn genders... my bad...

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

I'm not sure but I'm confortable with voting him until he plays. He is most unhelpful and may hide behind his null play attitude the whole game.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

I was considering doing this in a game.

So?

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

why? why? why? why? and... oh... whY?

Unvote, Vote GIEFF

errr... you probably know what I'm goint to ask you...
it starts with W, then H, then Y... then and exclamation mark...

[alexhans]

Simply from a theoretical perspective.. do you think it is good to lay out why people strike you as TOWN?

Well... reasons are important in this game... Scum has knowledge town doesn't so seeing through those reasons you can try to disentangle if it's a valid guess or a totally unsupported guess based on a scum game strategy wich, again, involves knowledge.

Camn... It's valid that SensFan or you might not find your attitudes scummy but then he has no right to talk like if he were the sole possesor of truth and that everyone should follow him.

IIRC, he said he would give reasons for his "suspicions". He did not. He told us to look for them in other people's post's.

My vote feels warm and cozy.

[alexhans]

Camn: Yes.

GIEFF: telling the truth means I'm not lying about my motives. That I'm honest about the NK speculation and all I've said. I was not talking about the number of scum. That was another BS attempt from BM to twist my words to try and make a case (Wich he seems to have dropped for now ignoring his previous certainty?). I don't know the number of scum. I assumed 4 and will keep assuming 4 until this game ends. Then I'll see if I need to acknowledge someone for saying 3, 2 or do I get to laugh at everyone who said 4 was highly unlikely.

So, the question is - why would five separate players vote for me, most of whom do so without any decent reasoning (I believe Baltar and jammer's reasons, but they provide very little follow-up), and NONE of whom do so strongly thinking I am scum (as evidenced by their lack of pressure and subsequent switches off of me).

Or is this all just a coincidence?

Now... do you understand my thoughts on behalf of mastin's waggon? I don't see reasons but a lot of going with the general choices so people look like they're scumhunting when you're doing nothing...

[alexhans]

Camn... quit acting like a child... if you're town... you're being most unhelpful with ridiculous questions...

[alexhans]

There is no need to get personal, alex - that does not help the town.

I'm not getting personal. I thought she knew better than to ask a question that is obvious that can't be derived from what you say... It feels like unnecesary questions to "scumhunt".

Don't you think it's odd that 6 different people voted for the same person without providing much reasoning?

Yes, I do and, as I said, not only about your waggon.

No - that is quite different. There are LOTS of reasons for the Mastin-wagon. Lack of scumhunting, trying to clear himself, lurking, meta-reasons, and a lot of people have discussed those reasons.

I disagree. Most of those reasons where mentioned AFTER he was at L-4. Mainly he was voted because of his NK speculation that apparently pose a threat to BM and SensFan.

The last one didn't mention mastin, AT ALL, until he voted for him in this growing waggon. If that's not scummy I don't know what is.
-----------------------

That’s a weakass vote. Sounds like a policy-like vote.

ohh... look... Benmage is defending him... ohhh... they must be on a scum team... [/sarcasm]

No, it's not. Read his ISO. Then tell me if SensFan is not scummy for not playing and now for hopping on the full growing waggon of a player he never mentioned.

This is useless to a person who chooses not. Although I do agree with you that it is frustrating and I’m all for policy lynching useless players… It is like asking Zwet to post more than one-line, or do anything good for that matter..Null. With Sensfan he hopefully reads both sides of an argument, and agrees with a position he finds strongest in finding scum. I don’t have a history with him so I couldn’t tell you if he at least votes well or not.

right... so he doesn't play, so he is never IN an argument but looks at it safely from outside. Cool. And, trust me, you can get Zwets to post if you push him.

I'm not going to add even more noise to this thread by making ridiculously long cases, we have enough of that already. Instead, I'll make sure I'm on record as to who and when I suspect people, and why I suspect them. That way, there's a clear record of my suspicions, and a track record of my votes and such.

In future days, when there is less noise, it will be more appropriate for everyone who is alive to be making large cases.

This is actually a nice post/point of view. I hope the “why vote” isn’t cause of the “gut”.

Hop off SensFan's ... err... dick?

He basically says: "Now... I'll lynch people without reasoning but I PROMISE to give reasons when I can't pull this any longer so I don't waste any BS now and I can save it for later..." Remember that he also said that if he feels someone is scummy he'll hammer, no explanations other than his "unvoiced suspicions" are needed. He basically laid foundations for him never to be suspected by others no matter what he does or what he doesn't do.

Those traps obv don't work so it's really foolish to keep trying to set them. It won't make people town, not the trap-setter, not the victim that didn't fall in it.

That part was a sarcastic mockery if you didn’t get it.

There are lots of quotes where I do not know if you're sarcastic or not... You can't be answering to everything you said... oh, no... that was sarcasm... Try to make it clear the first time.

I obviously don’t think going with ones gut is a sufficient case and I’ve never run into a simply QFT/QFT/QFT case…but I’m sure in that scenario I’d want a bit more elaboration.

However, you don't seem to have a problem with SensFan's out-of-the-blue vote.

And you're not investigating anyone at all Alex, you're suspecting people for being suspicious of Mastin for perfectly valid reasons, and spending more energy defending him than would be considered normal for a player who isn't supposed to know anything more than their own alignment.

QFT

... That's all I did? Suspect people in the Mastin waggon? right... how could I not... every day there's mort people in it. Anyway... I didn't just inspect the people in that waggon. But you don't notice that because you seem to live in your little monotematic world when there must always be ONE player in the gutter and all the others should rest...
---------------

Are you two saying that it would make sense for ME AS SCUM to AVIOD voting lurkers?
Really?
Cuz I often get called SCUMMY for VOTING lurkers!

I'm just saying Camn... it's unlike you not to. I don't know why, despite your love for a lurker waggon, you'd go for active players when there were always available lurkers in this game.

You may remember that I didn't particularly like your hop voting between lurkers in our game together... But I assumed you would do the same this game because you claimed it to be part of your gameplay.

Just restating things you see, even though they are not really scummy or significant at all....... this is just IIoA, and is one of Tar's Tells.

Is it me or are you mild-OMGUSing everyone who asks you a question or wonders something about you?

So.. did either of you have a POINT when you mentioned this? Are you saying I should be voting a lurker now? are you saying that I am scum because I am NOT voting a lurker?

Yes. The point is that you're acting differently. It might have a motive.
You can do what you want.
It doesn't make you scum on it's own, no.

Camn... if you wanna know so you can OMGUS me too. Yes, you're acting scummy. OMGUS, evasiveness, lack of scumhunting, odd reactions to questions, you're recoiling too much...
-----------------------

And I don't consider 'lynching' 'killing'.

If so, than saying "I promise not to

kill

you this game" looks a lot like a scumslip to me.

ok... I wholeheartedly disagree... Do you really mean this? Do you think that scum would be so careless? There's obv an intention to write kill there. It's null.
-----------------------

lynch me then.

Be careful with your wifom. It's anti-town if you're town and it's scummy.
-----------------------

Don’t much care for Alex’s attack on Zach based on his prior attitude on NK speculation. I see no reason to fault Zach for coming to the proper realization that NK speculation is a generally pointless endeavor.

Attack? lol... you're all so shy... Asking questions != Attacking... If you wanna find scum you'll have to question as many people as possible to try to find their motives. You keep tunnel visioning on one person (with or without reasons) and forget about the whole game if it's not related to the same topic.

Furthermore, I agree with Zach about Alex, the best case scenario appears to be that Alex is letting his out of game feelings towards Mastin color his perception of him in-game and the worst case scenario is scum either defending a buddy or defending a townie to earn cred with the town.

The best case scenario is that I suck and Mastin is scum?
The WCS is that I'm scum and Mastin is town or that I'm scum and he is my buddy?

BM said this already (ignoring your BCS). So you guys don't feel (or conveniently ignored) there's a possibility where we are both town? Am I seeing an open door so that you can go after me regardless of his allignment?

especially considering how mutually supportive camn, Sens, and BM have been.

As far as i can see, the only connection between those 3 players, are they all rock. So why shouldnt they be mutually supportive? If there's one thing scum fear, it's united townies who trust each other.

Oh... my... God... You've just expressed that they are 2 townies? You've felt confident to call town 3 players already... or is it buddying language? or what?

With what everyone in that group has shown this game... Scum (assuming none of you are) has not much to fear.

[alexhans]

Hi... just logging in to tell you I'm here... I was away but I'll catch up tomorrow and post my thoughts.

[alexhans]

2 pages to go... almost there....

[alexhans]

SF 355: Screaming won't make a point. Ad hom won't work either.

KMD, BM, camn, Sens all seem to understand each other. You really think its because we're all Scum, as opposed to the fact we all have enough experience to see that none of us are being scummy?

So... none of you are scummy... lol... talking about fan groups...

1) appeal to experience...
2) buddying to all of them? Are you trying to form an elite group? they're all town now?

C) One could argue that your entire attack on me was OMGUS for my voting you earlier.

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

I'm not sure but I'm confortable with voting him until he plays. He is most unhelpful and may hide behind his null play attitude the whole game.

k, your vote is scummy then.

No. It's not. I have my reasons and I have given them. I'm just not sure enough to call him scum.

I have nothing more to say than what I have already.

You've said nothing.

But I can almost guarantee that if she's scum, I WILL be NK'd in this game. I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today.

Thanks for the wifom KMD. REALLY anti-town.

BM is happy with a Mastin lynch... of course... it's easy...

And he says that I have a fan club that's protecting me or something... I still don't get it... Given his reasonings in his wall posts I was the good lynch and that would give info about Mastin, apparently. Now he is confortable with a Mastin lynch...

KMD: I'm suspicious of BM, Camn, Benmage and SensFan mainly. For things they have done or attitudes they have.

GIEFF, mastin and jammer are looking town to me but, then again, I can't let my first impressions stick forever.

Neutral or Null reads on Ceph, Kai, Spyrex, Zach and VP.

# Un-voting alex (213): Although BM claims to still be suspicious of alex, he realizes the alex-wagon isn't going anywhere, so hops on the next-biggest wagon.

We must not forget this.

379: lol for the statystics... Do you think they really work GIEFF?

@ Alex... I theorize that OMGUS is, if anything, a town-tell. Townies get mad when people call them scummy. Scum get scared.
But then again, I don't believe in town-tells, so I call it null.

so... OMGUS is a town tell but then it's null because you don't believe in them?

Is there a point to all this madness?

OMGUS itself can not be called town or scum. But the ways in wich a player OMGUSes and mantains a case can very well tell a lot of things about allignment.
386: QFT

Well, my read on you is obviously scum to begin with. You don't seem to actually believe your case and you are repeating the same thing AFTER SHE ANSWERS just to get the points, that are crap to begin with, across. You are trying to push this probable mislynch.

hey... calling cases crap is NEVER a good defense... you should know that by now... Was it necesary to add the words probable mislynch?

wow... I realize now that this battles between 2 players can be very annoying...

Camn... the truth is... that I WAS referring at your vote to GIEFF because you jumped at him for what you believed was a case against you. That's some kind of OMGUS.

And, please, don't appeal to emotion calling for your own lynch. It's confusing.

415: really? that's your view?

Can't we just lynch GIEFF now instead? I think that would be a bit more productive

Yeah... right. Lynch the most active and inquisitive player... Are you scum again KMD?

So what are you suggesting? She is scum with alex and it was only distancing, but then she got worried when you, a townie, called her out?

huh?

I think alexhans is scummy. He has shown odd buddying behavior towards me

If you play like this... get used to it. I like how you inspect everything and everyone. I can see how my NutSoCaps may be perceived as scummy although it could be easyly explained checking my meta and looking at games like Bad Case Mafia.

Anyway...GIEFF: do you think there could be some relation in the triangle Mastin-BM-Alexhans regarding allingments?

I can’t read this Gieff vs Camn/KmD conflict anymore. It rivals BM vs Alex in fluff/uselessness/and has totally derailed any direction for the day. It also makes catching up in this game less favorable than slamming ones head in to the wall.

lol, I can understand what you mean now. But you should note that there are

things

that you might extract from those formidable battles. BM's pretense of Mastin or Alex (one of them is scum) fell on it's face with his GIEFF Vote.

453Camn... Since when do you suspect mastin??? Are you voting him to prove Benmage wrong or something? you KEEP acting scummy. There's no way around it.

She is not a poor player. In fact, she has been nominated for the best individual performance by a pro-town player.

But has she any money? Because she could still be a "poor" player if she doesn't...

I find it humorous how you are trying to parry GIEFF into your Mastin defence.

Explain please. I don't follow.

well boo-hoo. blatant appeal to emotion.

Says a player who lays on the sidelines and is content with adding small talk letting other people decide the lynches...

Farewell Kai... Sorry for the wallposts... We'll win this for you (unless you're scum, of course)

hi blackcatcontract! Sorry in advance.

How have I not scumhunted? I've already caught you and alexhans.

lol. You still need to make up a reason to so you can make-believe I'm scum sweet Mr.Holmes...

I'm confused SensFan... is it wrong that your vote was an L-1? Didn't you said that if you found a player scummy you would hammer? How is putting someone at L-1 different?

I haven't pressed <caps lock> to defend Alex.

hey... I didn't either... I just holded shift.

Since 2:50 AM EST this morning, Mastin has 2 posts in a specific MD thread. Those posts have a total of 2778 words and 13,455 characters (excluding spaces).

So much for him being too short on time to post in this game...

interesting.

You are clearly trying to stir an argument that isn't helping discussion to really move ahead at all, meanwhile resting safely on the sidelines

So are you.

Wow, looks like Mastin now has alex and jammer fighting over a chance to be with him.

Remember. Don't underestimate me. I'm not gonna fall for anyone dead set town. I've learned that much. BUT, I don't see certain people as d1 lynching material. Mastin's non posting, however, concerns me.

@everyone: Any ideas? Would it be a good strategy to lurk at L-6 still having chances to revert it to someone else? is it carelesness? Town? scum?

lol... next post I read is mastin... *facepalm*

494 lol... I don't know why but I imagine Camn as a schizophrenic... It's as if an entirely different person posted...

I don't like his crazy-long posts. I don't know if I think they are scummy.. but I feel like they cover up the REAL alex.

I'm working on shortening things down and cutting to the chase. This game has proven really difficult because I keep wifoming myself as to what would the motives of an experienced scum player be.

Anyway... 495... Good post Camn... We need that kind of posts. I'm working on a similar one but I still need to refresh some things and receive more input from some players.

Camn's really defensive of Mastin for no reason other than... well... no idea.

Can you refresh me where did this happen? Camn is currently voting Mastin... what do you make out of that? Are you sure she was defending him?
Do you get something out of BM vs Alex or GIEFF vs Camn (KMD was behind the curtain).
How many posts had DDD written when you got the town feeling?

EBWOP
Whoops forgot Alexhans! I'm thinking he's... =/... scummy town? Erk... I dunno

GOD!! I was about to call you on it.... How can you forget about me??? I'm the annoying star of this game... My name has been called more times on this thread that on the entire MS.

Camn... are you voting mastin based on Benmage's suspicions and at the same time pursuing him?

Cephir... Where are you???

[alexhans]

Almost forgot... BCC... YOU NEED TO CLAIM NOW!!!

XD

[alexhans]

Voting for ANYONE other than a player who you think is scum, is scummy.

He is scummy IMO... I just didn't know if he was scum or if I was going for the wrong tells.

What is anti-town about WIFOM? I'm getting so sick of repeating this in every single game I play.

A bit of wifom is not bad... but extreme and unnecesary WIFOM leads to confusion and chaos.

But I can almost guarantee that if she's scum, I WILL be NK'd in this game. I know if I was scum, Camn wouldn't be living past today.

What's the point of this... you're predicting the future with what purpose? If you're not nightkilled you're presumably leading us to believe that she is town... but then, you could assume that scum might kill you... to set up camn... unless you were scum... and if she died it should tell us that you're scum... Of course... after having said this... as scum, you wouldn't kill her... or would you? WIFOM... Sucks... and it was totally unnecesary.

Because scum are never active and inquisitive, right?

They sure can be... but at this point you have done nothing but buddy up to Camn and call GIEFF's case crap. There's no logic involved there.

I prefer to lynch GIEFF first. I'll come to you tomorrow.

Tell me TODAY why will you come for me tomorrow.

[alexhans]

What happened to not thinking he was scum? >.<

He has given me a couple of reasons since then.

Why? That could distract us from lynching GIEFF.

Because I don't want to give you time to make BS up. That's why. If you have something now. You should say it now.

alex, give me reasons why you think I'm scummy, in 200 words or less.

Thanks.

Still not playing eh? Where do you get your rep from man?? Your nice avatar? Scumhunting and SensFan don't seem to fit together...

Go cry to your friendies BM, Camn and KMD... who are all so townie because they don't suspect you...

[alexhans]

SensFan... I must go right now so I can't respond to you as I would like to right now...

But if you're not a lame player (as opposed to what your last paragraph seems to indicate) why don't you reveal the whole scum team and win this game for us, please?

If you were that good you would give us reasons and we would surrender to your supreme logic.

[alexhans]

Well... first of all... I must apologize to SensFan...

Still not playing eh? Where do you get your rep from man?? Your nice avatar? Scumhunting and SensFan don't seem to fit together...

I was in a rush and read this quote:

alex, give me reasons why you think I'm scummy, in 200 words or less.

Thanks.

as:

Thanks alex, for giving me reasons why I think you're scummy, in 200 words or less.

I was more interested in responding KMD and didn't pay enough attention to SF.

What if I don't have anything now?

Then there's no reason for your apparent suspicions on me. Why would you go for me tomorrow if you have no reason to think I'm scum?
Translation: It's scummy.

You really think that based on my statement, one of us will die and the other will definitely be lynched based on it tomorrow? I don't see it happening.

No... I don't know what to think anymore. You've just opened a justification for everything to happen without being able to get leads from it. That's what WIFOM might cause.

You, on the other hand, have yet to give a SINGLE reason as for why you think I'm Scum, if memory serves. It appears you actually are entertaining the idea that I would be policy-lynched.

I've yet to policy lynch someone. Not my style unless I have very good reasons. It can be a good measure to get a lurker to post though. I've given more than a single reason. But, no worries, attached to this post is a list of events in this game. You are scummy for those that start with Sensfan...

but is in direct contradiction to your and Mastin's assertions that I'm Scum since I'm a higher-priority kill than Cow.

I NEVER ASSERTED you were scum since you were a higher-priority kill than cow. I said that it was a good theory and one worth pursuing. I did not tie myself to NK speculation to discover scum.

To tell you the truth... I had completely forgotten about it other than your reactions about Mastin's theory (BM and you). But it still a valid theory.

You think the 4 of us are Scum? That's fucking impossible

*sigh* No. I don't. That was a critic to your inmediate townie read on all of them.
I'm fairly sure that one of the mild players is scum.

I forgot. You still think that 4:11 = 2:10...

No, I never said that. In fact. I was probably wrong about 4 scum. I guess I didn't assume how difficult it can be for town finding 4 scum with only 3 mislynches... Is it that hard? I guess I was thinking about it in terms of a mini.

So, as I showed, at least one of Camn/BM/KMD/Sens is Town*. Therefore, at least one of us is acting sincerely. Therefore, at least one of us genuinely thinks the other 3 are Town.

So... you're opening the possibility that all 3 are scum and you're just mistaken? Does your pride allow that?

We're also (unless I'm mistaken) the 4 most experienced players here, and the only ones that seem to know that different != scummy.

I know that you're arrogant. You don't need to shot it every time.

tldr; either put up or shut up. I expect that post of why I'm Scum in 200 words or less.

How about... I don't take orders from you? When I asked you to post you evaded me and told me that I failed at reading comprehension or some other insult. So... If I want to ignore you... I will. How about that, eh? Wasn't your playstyle anti-town?

anyway... Why don't you read ISO 29 or other posts in my ISO to understand my vote on you?

*Note that if indeed Camn/BM/KMD are Scum, the Town is fucked. Hell, I still think Town is fucked if 2 of GIEFF/Mastin/Alex/jammer are Town...

hey... is this game not of your liking? If you will surrender or something before it ends using others as an excuse then leave before you hurt us too much.

You are saying the other wagon is just like the Mastin wagon, which it's not. By doing so, you are implicitly buddying with GIEFF. Understand?

Ok. SO everytime I disagree with reasons for a waggon or don't suspect the same player as others then I will be buddying whoever is accused. I can handle that.

You're right, this game needs more walls of text like your last one. Rolling Eyes My scumhunting is going along just fine, thanks. Also, way to divert attention away from your scummy behaviour without addressing the point.

funny.... How you start mentioning a supposed scummy behaviour on my part... When you previously never mentioned anything of the sort...

I've reduced the wallposts. But I had a great deal to catch up.

Isn't that basically what you've done this whole time about the Mastin wagon?

But I GAVE REASONS as to why I disagreed with the vote's reasonings. I didn't just call it crap.

Alex, I would like to hear your case against SensFan in 200 words or less.

You'll have it.

Unvote, Vote:alexhans

reason being?

Just restating things you see, even though they are not really scummy or significant at all....... this is just IIoA, and is one of Tar's Tells.

Is it me or are you mild-OMGUSing everyone who asks you a question or wonders something about you?

Camn... the truth is... that I WAS referring at your vote to GIEFF because you jumped at him for what you believed was a case against you. That's some kind of OMGUS.

Can you explain the inconsistency, Alex?

I could. IF it was an inconsistency.

You reply to my statements regarding YOU and Benmage.. saying that I was "mild-OMGUSing everyone"....
Now you are saying that that was directed toward my vote on GIEFF.

You preemtively OMGUSed GIEFF because you thought he was building a case against you. You started "suspecting" me for asking you questions. Therefore, I was talking about both of us. The "mildly" goes for me alone, you weren't mild about GIEFF... at all. forced, maybe.

I am arguing that camn believes voting lurkers is scummy, which explains why she hasn't done it, even though it is pro-town to vote those whom you think are scum.

But she usually claims it to be her meta...

GIEFF, do you think that Camn and I are scum together?

KMD... you think it's GIEFF and me together?

Pssh, its you/me/Camn/BM, remember?

Your awesome contributions to scumhunting will not be forgotten.

Voting for ANYONE other than a player who you think is scum, is scummy.

This is totally untrue, and I disagree with it utterly.

funny thing is how she tried to use it as an argument against me but did not look at any other vote in the game.

I'd put money there is a scum-split between those that have the word sickness and those that dont.

That's a fair thought. But... wich from where?

Now, WIFOM all you want or call shitty play or whatever - BM's move with "who is the cop" in this setup reeks town.

oh... so you should think jammer is town too for the 4 scum issue right? You know that those things can be faked TO BE SEEN AS TOWN!?
Traps that obv wouldn't work (even if BM were town) but might help him look townier.
(guess you explained later in 540. But you know where I stand)

Additionally, I'm taking off the the tinfoil regarding Mastin for now.

Why?

So, of: (Alex, Benmage, GIEFF) there is a scum.

Who is your biggest suspicion? why? Benmage has word sickness?

Also, SpyreX.... Camn, BM or KMD are word healthy?

KMD: From your experience...
What are Camn's town tells and what are her scum tells in general?

While I disagree with policy lynching and revenge lurking, and even lurkerlynching depending on the situation, I guess I see your point. I just don't think Sens exactly qualifies as any of these things.

ohhh... changing your mind now? First you speak in general to use it against me but now... you wiggle around it so you agree with Camn and still see me as scummy?

Takeme, for example. I rank 10th of 15 on your list, but I'd argue I'm contributing more than at least half the people above me

I'd disagree. Also, you've started to post more since I voted you.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... hor=Mastin

7 posts and 36 hours since Mastin was taking a break to eat.

Yeah.

Can we lynch him yet?

I'm guessing we will, eventually...

Any other suspicions you'd like to comment about? We all know you suspect Mastin.

Majority is voting mastin for NK-speculation and lurking, and Mastin having a meta doing so sa mafia. Your case has nothing to do with all of this.

Hey... the lurking as mafia argument came a lot later, IIRC from VP Baltar... people were just voting him for NK speculating, wich was lame.

I'd like to hear too what does GIEFF think about SensFan.

In fact... I'd like Zach, DDD and Ceph telling us what they think about GIEFF, BM, Benmage, Camn and me.

i wasnt stupid enough to think that i could get Alex lynched today

Why not? because of my "fan club", as you said?

Do you see a relation in GIEFF Alexhans like you did on Alexhans Mastin?

[alexhans]

Because you do. Don't pretend it isn't the case. I figured that was the main benefit to inviting half the playerlist here-they all have some kind of association to you.

I did it to have an interesting game. Not so they wouldn't suspect me if I was scum...

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

Didn't you started voting me when I defended mastin? Since when Camn and Benmage feel you're obv town? Are they your fans? XD

The first 2 are people who i'd consider to sit in your camp, but Jammer? He seems ok, why bring him into this?

huh? I was saying who I felt that were town. what do you mean?

And we've already established why your logic doesnt fly.

but... was it scummy?

564: I don't follow your gameplay. At all.

What happens with your Alex-Mastin theories?

Why am I not worth discussin?

The whole buddying thing is losing strenght... Yeah, I'm buddying GIEFF and mastin according to everyone. Camn and KMD buddie themselves. KMD buddies SensFan. Sensfan buddies KMD, Camn and BM. Zach has buddied BM IIRC. Now BM buddies GIEFF.

We are all buddies. We are all scummy. *sigh*

Some stuff I was writing (It still needs to contain some game events, but this is all the

relevant

stuff I recalled, there's some lesser about them and others)

SensFan voted Mastin when he hadn't talked previously about him. He didn't include him in his list (jammer, Alexhans, GIEFF) until there was a good waggon against him.
SensFan didn't give reasons. SensFan used other's reasons. Claimed it as playstyle.
SensFan stated that BM, camn and KMD (even though he just got in) are all townie.
BM voted GIEFF even though he said that at least one fo Mastin and I were town.
BM pushed my case acting convinced that I was scum, the whole time. He gave 2 cases in wich I was scum with or without mastin but now is revoting Mastin.
Camn jumped at GIEFF with a totally uncalled for reaction. Voted GIEFF for a post that analyzed meta and was not really a case but she took it that way.
Camn hasn't scumhunted but tried to look town.
Mastin tried to autoclear himself.

[alexhans]

BM... do you honestly think I'm backed up by a secret cult or something?

I've played 10 games in MS... I've played only once with most players I invited...

MOD: If Ceph doesn't post soon... would you consider replacing him? I've already replaced once into a large game because he was lurking: Mafia 91

Quote from the sign up thread...

cephir... don't get replaced like you did on mafia 91... I had to read 17 pages to catch up...

I won't, I promise <3

He has confirmed in a new theme game yesterday and is getting prodded in another game. I strongly suggest replacement while we can still find one.

[alexhans]

Haha, if you didnt think it would affect the game, what was that shit with you and Mastin about? lol

The same kind of shit that KMD and Camn or VP and Camn use to do... game friendlyness.

So, me, and 3 people who feel i am obvtown? Bit predictable. lol

Didn't you started voting me when I defended mastin? Since when Camn and Benmage feel you're obv town? Are they your fans? XD

I didnt invite them here, they just wanted to party. And im willing to lynch them if they exhibit scummy play. Thats the difference between you and I.

Who was the guy you didnt mention? Sensfan?

If you act that way. You're not different from me.

I didn't mention him because he said he felt you, KMD and Camn were acting townie.

Why are you Pro-Jammer?

Because, right now, I feel him to be town. The way he posts. Not much more than that. I haven't found him scummy.

Maybe thats because your mentality isnt protown, and you cant understand the concept of people not being pegged down to one particular belief.

Theres no point talking about you atm, because whatever you do or say, you wont be lynched today. Plus this game has plenty of other people who need to be looked at.

If I were peg down to one belief I would've been voting you a long time ago. I don't know if you realized that... but I haven't voted you yet. There's still things I need to think through to see who of you is more likely scum... because as others have done my theres-scum-in-here list consists on
SensFan, BM, Camn, Benmage

I agree that we must look at other people. I don't understand why you NEED to vote someone else. You can always pressure people without voting them.

whats IIRC?

If I recall correctly. Zach buddied up to you at the beginning of the game.

EBWOP:

BM voted GIEFF even though he said that at least one fo Mastin and I were

town

SCUM (damn it... it should say scum, sorry about that) .

[alexhans]

No... I'm mistaken... You agreed with SF about NK speculation is bad because scum had control over it...

Doesn't matter really. It was a vague memory... that's why I said IIRC.

[alexhans]

well... I'm trying to shorten them down...

But you can always skim a bit of them and read them when you really feel like...

[alexhans]

Ok... New style. I divide my posts into people. It should be clearer and that way you won't miss something that is adressed to you.

(Updated till 616)

----------------------------

Post highlights:

-Zach thinks that a question or a comment is an acusation and that's starting to throw me off.
-I disagree with SpyreX's view of BM town because of his cop trap.
-I ask DDD for input.
-Is Camn trying to policy lynch GIEFF?
-Does GIEFF thinks that KMD's sample game with 2 scum adds to his case on Camn?
-Has SensFan done the same thing KMD found scummy in the sample game?
-I respond to some stuff to KMD.
-Why does KMD let Camn respond to GIEFF's arguments when it was a discussion between KMD and GIEFF?
----------------------------

ZACH:

No... I'm mistaken... You agreed with SF about NK speculation is bad because scum had control over it...

Doesn't matter really. It was a vague memory... that's why I said IIRC.

It does matter. If you're going to

accuse me

of things I'm not doing, it's actually quite important and game relevant Alex.

This is the SECOND time when you have reacted in a terrified manner to a question or comment about you. The buddying comment. Even if it were true about you regarding BM (It was true about you regarding SF) it did not mean you were scum for it. I was just mocking some players (particularly GIEFF) views of buddying up to people being scummy.
----------------------------

SpyreX

597: What scum can be so retarded to claim cop by direction? Even if they didn't realize it was a mountanious game... They would certainly be afraid of a counterclaim...

Also... We know that a good player will act the same as scum or town... so if he laid traps as town he would surely pretend to lay traps as scum too.

I'm happy you're finally available to chip in. That's what we need.

That's a fair thought. But... wich from where?

You're not even reading everything in a post before you start replying are you?

I am... it's just that I don't see how do we get to catch scum from the list. Yes, you made a list... so now what? How, specifically is scum. That's my question. Rest assured. I read everything.
----------------------------

Benmage

I keep mixing both mages up... You can tell when I do...
577: SpyreX was the one that said you had word sickness, Ask him.
So, are you fine with Camn not scumhunting?
----------------------------

Battle Mage

it looks like:

Alex, Mastin, Hasdgfas, VP Baltar, Kairyuu

maybe: Debonair and Camn

So... you're saying (assuming I'm scum) that I killed a member of my brigade?
VP baltar is commiting treason then... because he is voting me... and Kai did too... because he deserted me...
Mastin remains loyal... XD
Oh... btw... I want Cephir out so I can get my reinforcement RedCoyote

With Camn is more a Love-hate relationship. DDD is just a guy who looks cool and likes to stay silent and say BULLSHIT once in a while.
----------------------------

DDD

: I have a good opinion on your analysys from our game so I'm still expecting something other than your Mastin vote... Imagine if you get killed... We would lose your valuable input...
----------------------------

jammer

:

@alexhans, try making a post. Then look at it and delete everything out of it that isn't necessarily needed. Or make some summary at the end of your posts. Just make it possible I have to read less of it.

As much as it pains me. I will try to do it. I'm used to writing every thought I have so that it's there for the future but I will try to edit them a bit more and remove the not-totally-relevant comments.
----------------------------

Camn

jammer's last post is so town it makes my eyes bleed.

ÌS this funny Camn or Serious Camn?

My scumhunting was genuine in that game, too. . . We knew there were two groups.
2-scumgroup games twist scum meta.

Crap... so it isn't the best example... because in THIS game. Scum Scumhunting WONT be genuine.

Furthermore..... I would further argue that I am the most brilliant voter of this game.

Despite all the trouble... this game is F·$%·$ GREAT

My initial reasoning on GIEFF STILL STANDS. I think he is probably too dangerous to have in endgame.

Dangerous to whom?

And I am STILL willing to proxy my vote to him, since he took it upon himself to get personal. I want to see Mastin's flip, since BenMage is so sure of his "skill".

Couldn't this mean that you're scum knowing both Mastin's and Benmage's allignments?

Now, additionally, it is that his TOWN-game is too POOR for him to be reliable in endgame.

Why is it his town game poorer than yours? or than other players, for that matter?

After... all... you're saying that you're POLICY LYNCHING GIEFF... Am I right?

Last one... why, oh why, are you voting mastin and not GIEFF?
----------------------------

GIEFF

: I don't want to meta... How many games have you played with Camn?
602: While I was shocked about it too. Notice that that game had 2 scumteams... wich makes it harder to say if it can be a scumtell or not.
----------------------------
KMD: I understand that you may go with GUT and later with logic. Is it gut what you have on me right now? I assume that GIEFF is not gut... when does the logic case come up? Are you ok with everybody else saying gut unless they're about to lynch a player?

KMD... you think it's GIEFF and me together?

Yep.

I seriously hope you're town then.

Thanks for the Camn stuff. It's interesting. I agree that her buddying is just Camn. We'll have to see about the other stuff (Like not being pro-town enough and not going after lurkers) but the fact that her scumhunting was genuine makes it a practically useless example.

Hasnt's SensFan done the same thing as Camn in that game when he gave his list and then said that "we could all be town, of course"?

Wait, there are people here who you invited to play? Just out of curiosity, who?

*triple facepalm*

I can see why you'd say I've buddied with Camn, but why Sens? Because I don't like your vote on him?

Pretty much.

BM voted GIEFF even though he said that at least one fo Mastin and I were town.

Wait, am I missing something here? Why do you and Mastin have to be scum for GIEFF to be scum?

BM, as you might recall, voted mastin. Then, after my NutSoCaps, he said that either Mastin or me were scum, right? Then, after a heated set of wall posts, unvoted me and voted GIEFF... Why would he if he thought either Mastin or I was scum (and he looked dead set on me)?

KMD: I did not invite you because I know that you play a lot of games so you would probably be busy. Don't take it personally. I was afraid that you might get lazy if there was a lot of catch up to do...

I intended to answer the 123456 points about Camn in your 604 after GIEFF did... but it seems Benmage and him have done a pretty good job already pointing some of them out.

-hypocracy

Wow... is he setting some kind of form of goverment with hypocrites as leaders? XD

I'll let Camn respond to that herself.

NO WAY. You defended her. Explain why you said what you said and if you disagree with Benmage state why.

Witholding reasons is fine as long as they come out eventually.

What do you think about my voting SensFan now then?
----------------------------

Thanks, Yaw. It was a prod request.

[alexhans]

One last fast post... I'll adress tomorrow any other point that feels necessary.

e) you need to read ALL THE WAY TO THE END before you ask questions. My reasons for voting Mastin are clear. My reasons for NOT voting Geiff are clear.
This running, stream-of-consciousness posting style doesn't help us at all.
Try and find the answers to your questions before asking them.

I know what you said when you said it... I just want to see what you say now after all your explanations regarding different topics to show you as town, no matter what. Then we can see if you're consistent or just trying to look townie out of every question.

Spyrex... What about my list... I want to apply a lynch queue too... anyway... we will have 2 flips tomorrow... so giving lynching queues won't help us too much. We need to try to find scum today.

And those who haven't posted enough NEED to post more or they WILL be a liability to town.

[alexhans]

POST EXCLUSIVELY MADE FOR SENSFAN SO HE DOESN'T CONVENIENTLY IGNORE IT

Prologue

SensFan... I fucking explained your vote....

I explained a whole lot more than you.

So quit lying.
------------------------

Sensfan... why wouldnt you bother to read 535? It's not even mine...

SensFan voted Mastin when he hadn't talked previously about him. He didn't include him in his list (jammer, Alexhans, GIEFF) until there was a good waggon against him.
SensFan didn't give reasons. SensFan used other's reasons. Claimed it as playstyle.
SensFan stated that BM, camn and KMD (even though he just got in) are all townie.

Are you going to ignore this again?

This camn wagon is the worst wagon I've ever seen.

If camn is lynched today, I will consider everyone off the wagon to be confirmed for the rest of the game, since there's no way that many Town will have voted her.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM MY NutSoCaps? Are you threatening everyone of being scum? Isn't this totally ridiculous? As you couldn't know her alignment?

Alex or Mastin needs to be lynched today.

lol... You were talking about Mastin, jammer and GIEFF but now you talk about me first... Annoyed with my vote aren't you?
Your point about me is bullshit because I explained my case on you. You just don't want to read it.

So, Mastin for lurking? What about Cephir? what about DDD?

Seriously, I think most of the Scum are working hard to divert the Mastin wagon right now. I'm looking at the people that were fighting over him earlier as well: GIEFF, Alex, someone else.

How many scum are there? 3? then what do you mean most of the scum? They're not big enough to influence much of this game then... 3/15 66% of TOWN players must agree on a lynch and that's that. GIEFF voted Mastin if you recall. I was the one that didn't like the waggon on him for playstyle reasons.
Pretty much the same frigging defence that KMD is offering about Camn. You're just naive enough to think that CAPS make everything different. No, guys... I did it to be noticed... And I certainly was.

BUt you seriously need scumhunting 101 if you think that I would call attention upon myself without need.

As I said.
If we were scumbuddies. I would not link myself to him by defending him.
If he was town... Why in hell do I need to buddy him like that when he had expressed he thought me as town? I didn't need that.

so cut with it.

[alexhans]

For all of you who don't like wall posts... Imagine this as several posts for several people.... You can JUST SKIM those who are not directed at you if you are so annoyed with my posting style.

-------------------------------

Camn

Objectively, I would think (via the KMD Gambit) that scum would jump on a crap-case on a townie...... especially if it was presented well... so I could be scum.
Of course, if YOU are scum, and part of a 2-man team.. then that obviously WOULDN'T happen.

What other situations could explain 12-14ish townies, and 1-3ish scum, pretty much ignoring your case on me?

is this serious?
626: anti town. THIS is worst than my stream of conciousness posts.
-------------------------------

@VP:

why would you want to shut up KMD? She has just joined the game. I won't die for disagreeing with your unsupported enough cases on Masin ,though his lurking is making me suspect him more and more his 4 votes that caused the NutSoCaps where based on his play about the NK SPECULATION!!! DO YOU NOT GET THAT? No, I supposed it's amazingly hard to understand it when you're all so worried about looking scummy.

@VP: You've voted GIEFF, BM and Mastin in this game... then me... how have I outgained them in your opinion to be voted?
--------------------------------

DDD:

1) What do you think my case on SensFan? (No, it's not asking for approval, I want to see where you stand)
2) What do you think about BM's trap?
3) What do you make of Camn's attitude? Still think it's all Camn-like and therefore a null tell or what?
4) Is buddying a scumtell? Who do you think buddies who?
5) Don't you think that your attitude of not playing unless you're asked for is totally anti-town? or sub-standard play?
--------------------------------

Battle Mage

Yep. Either that, or it is how you said it was originally-that you didnt have enough clout within the scumteam to determine the kill. Sad, eh?

yeah... that was my theory too, to make it all fit.
--------------------------------

Zach

666 Zach: Zach, you're not playing enough. How am I supposed to read you if I don't interact with you in any way...?
None of the things I say were accusations of being scum... I just wanted to know how you reacted. But to every question you reacted at me as if I were framing you or something.
And for the rest of your sentence... whatever man...
--------------------------------

Everyone

Referring to my wall posts... I've shorten them down and organized them. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm just playing this game so it has my full attention. What am I supposed to do? Let you go over the same things again and again? Let you leave so many players untouched and opinion free? I need to find scum. As to now, I'm suspicious of certain people but not set on a lynch just yet so I need to keep going. I can not rest till I'm really sure.

[alexhans]

And

Camn

... voting yourself does nothing else than confusing me...

if you were town... it would never be a good strategy to lynch yourself unless you were going for a trade with someone of 1 after the other if the first doesn't flip scum (Wich seems also bad because both could be town) so, at this point, it only hurts us.

1) Are you town and trying to make a point by voting yourself or do you EARNESTLY believe it will help? why are we gonna gain something from your lynch if you're town? SensFan's defense of you is just a threat and a lie. So I need a real reason.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

Do you see why is most unhelpful?

[alexhans]

VP Baltar

: Stop pushing a ghost case...

state your case on me on 200 words or less... well... if you can.... because... we both know you have nothing and are just pushing and pushing ignoring me when I talk to you.
---------------------------
I'm gonna do some ISO-reads and see what I can found... problem is... some people are really hard to read due to their low posting and involvement so far in this game...

[alexhans]

ZACH

You actually have MORE posts than I do... So? Does it mean that you've given you've participated on more levels of this game than me? No. Also, note that a great deal of your posts are directed at me thanks to my interactions with you.

You wanted to see how I'd react to false points on me? How do you expect me to react? How would YOU react? Your foundation is crumbling before you even started laying the bricks. How can you justify your actions when you are making false points on me? It's ridiculous.

I was wrong about you buddying BM. Just that. So stop acting like a beaten up child.

You put me on 2nd place becauase I asked you questions or talked about you and because I defended Mastin when his waggon had only crap reasons (save his auto clearing that only few mentioned).

Why haven't you called SensFan or KMD on their Camn defenses? Or do CAPS shock you?

[alexhans]

hold on... VP... So I take it that you think I'm scum with Mastin then?

You win nothing because it's a crappy line... crappy lines don't make cases and they definetly don't allow for pushing a lynch as you did.

[alexhans]

What I said about 761 was correct. And you even said Mastin was like Steph to me (meaning you thought me town?)

IF you make a list with 3 people and I'm after mastin... I assume I'm 2nd in your list... Mastin's lurking is making me put him in the null read list right now but his play earlier in the game wasn't scummy enough to warrant such a waggon. I still mantain that.

about Camn's defenders: No... But I think that I think that being inconsistent might be an indicative of scum. Why would you have different standards about a topic?

And I think that they DO have tried to actively derail the waggon. Look at KMD and tell me I'm wrong.

[alexhans]

700: Thanks Battle Mage... sorry, Zach... Do you have any reasoning as to why one of us (at least) should be scum?

Or it all lies at the stupid thought that you think buddying or defending someone is scummy?

[alexhans]

wow... 6 pages in 1 day...

I'll catch up tomorrow... and post trying to make it brief.

please, try not to hammer before I can post.

[alexhans]

Well... I really can't catch up today... but I've been thinking it over and I believe Battle Mage is scum.

Just so you know.

Unvote, Vote Battle Mage

Of course. If it turns up that mastin is scum... I'm gonna have made a fool out of myself... I wouldn't bet on buss right now. B0ut, If he doesn't, you'll have to remember it.

[alexhans]

I found Camn scummy... but all those defenses from KMD, VP and other people wifomed my brains out.

What if they are scum and know Camn is town? etc, etc... So... I'm not willing to be wrong about Camn right now...

I WONT save Mastin at this point. If he is town, wich he probably is, that's too bad. But at least you won't be pushing his lynch again.

I prefer a BM lynch.

[alexhans]

i've caught up... i'll try to remove all the fluff... (i'll save it so you can later ask for it if you want)

I'm VERY annoyed with gieff...

I recommend people to read BM in iso... he is Mr.Inconsistency.

[alexhans]

I've taken a good 65 %. If anyone wants it. Ask for it

GIEFF, take a pill or something... You're not Sherlock Holmes and you're completely wrong. Do you even care if I respond? Or will you continue to obsesively push my lynch?

I defended Mastin when I thought the cases against him were unreasoned. i was never incosistent about it.

and... believe it or not... It WAS a coincidence that I posted when Mastin was at L-1. I realized there were votes on him (your "go sens" made it kinda obv) and I wanted to be able to post and have my say about Battle Mage BEFORE night started.

GIEFF... the whole "cant convince so I unvote" is the same thing BM did with me and you... did you like that? did you criticize that earlier? Aren't people like BM buddying up to you now?

If that is really alex's playstyle, I would like to see someone show me alex coaching any other player in this game anywhere close to as often as he's coached you.

BE smart and meta objectively... not just to incriminate. Im sure youll find examples of my playstyle.

Yes, that camn-alex buddy theory is looking more and more far-fetched by the minute.

so what do you think? because you've made already a lot of cases where you seemed earnest to get a lynch... What's your current position? How many scum are there?

[alexhans]

@KMD: I fail to see why you would agree with your top suspect to lynch the other suspect... Do you think GIEFF is bussing me?

733: Kmd... YOU HAVE YET TO GIVE A REASON FOR MY LYNCH. Remember? You said nothing!

kmd... you've gone all the way to defend camn....all the way... Much more than what I have done with mastin. I don't understand how that's being ignored as opposed to my mastin defense.

869:

Btw, BM, why can't Mastin and Alex be scum together?

and gieff too right?

[alexhans]

Ohh... and GIEFF. My thoughts about not wanting to lynch Camn right now don't only rely on the weird circle of defense around her... they're also influenced by the facts that many of the scummy things she does may be her playstyle... That's what I needed to decide...

She was town in mini 799 (theme) and I totally thought I had her pegged as scum... luckyly for me... she died n1 and that prevented me from going after her.

[alexhans]

Battle Mage
752 BM: Didn't you say camn was town?
758: BM protecting mastin... amazing how things flip around here...
BM is totally defending mastin right now... second clue i get that he probably knows his allignment... Remember when he flipped on me? He KNEW mastin was town.
Battle Mage is trying to convince us that Mastin will be Night Killed.
WHY? He won't be night killed because his lynch will be pushed again the following day.

"We have 2 weeks before even need to think about lynching. If we give up that time now, i'll be furious. Scum hate long days. "

more bullshit

[alexhans]

VP Baltar:

Scum are clearly trying to make this day utterly useless and Mastin's lynch will tell us information about his most ardent defenders.

do you know something I don't?

We have seen you and alex defending him for god knows what reasons, so if he flips scum we know exactly who to string up tomorrow.

again
894: you've been setting up my lynch for a long time now...

[alexhans]

Fair enough. But for the sake of the game, do you realistically believe you can persuade a majority onto a different player? Or even Alex for this case...I doubt it, and if mastin does flip town. Alex's over excessive defense is certainly something to note.

do you notice a pattern...? mastin town will make me look bad. Mastin scum makes me look bad too... I'm not gonna let people play it like that AFTER we see the flip.

[alexhans]

@Camn
885: regardless of mastin's flip... people are gonna say im scummy so... what would the point be? and i was speaking specifically about VP and Kmd.
--------------------
People have gone from calling me "scummy for his defense" to calling me "SCUMMY AS HELL" and stuff like that. It seems like people are being pressured into calling me scum (Others may be annoyed and unable to think).

I can't grasp how everything has changed so much. I don't even know what's the case besides my NutSoCaps... There's really nothing other than that and conviniently laid theories that assume a certain suspect is scum with me. But there's nothing. How the fuck can I be scummy as hell? MY wallposts? My playstyle? How am I so scummy? CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN IT TO ME?

[alexhans]

So you're saying it is in your best interest to see Mastin live. Well, I think it is in the towns best interest to see him lynched. Especially with his lurkyness. I hate lurkers, they've lost games for me.

I agree. At this point. That mastin is one of the best lynches unless we are sure we'll get scum. He is not posting and will keep on being a distraction for everybody. Besides. It might give us some harder foundations to scumhunt once he flips.

However... Battle Mage has been scummy beyond anything else...

for instance... he's been voting players and after he received no support or thought he was going nowhere he called them town, just to be sure there would be no retaliation...

[alexhans]

READ THIS POST GIEFF: 1001

[alexhans]

If you are trying to decide if her anti-town playstyle is scummy or not, why, oh WHY would you coach her to CHANGE her anti-town playstyle?

why do you think I would play like you?

If Zwets is anti town I won't lynch him for being anti town... I'll try to make him play pro-town... It's much harder to try to read through the anti-town rabble.

[alexhans]

jammer: If you read clearly... I'm resigned to a mastin lynch and I even prefer it over a camn lynch. Yes, GIEFF, I do. Being such a controversial player at this point (and not helping at all with all his lurking) he is almost the correct lynch unless you're sure of someone else.

That someone else is Battle Mage. Who now has made a 180 flip to jump and protect mastin... He went for camn... and then used jammer as a trampoline to get.... me?

come on...

[alexhans]

Do I have any chance of opening your eyes before tomorrow about BM? because I'm almost willing to vote mastin provided that Yaw guarantees us a LONG night and a replacement for Cephir who is damaging this game greatly.

[alexhans]

You mean play like me as in try to catch scum?

No, play like you as in obsesive compulsive case maker against 6 players forgetting his earlier suspicions and annoying everyone to follow your train of thoughts...

Whatever I'll say... you'll keep making up questions... you're wrong about me... you'll have to accept it.

I'm not claiming I need to meta camn... I don't have the will nor the time. I never metaed mastin either. You're the one who lives by and for mafia, it seems.

Camn seemed scummy in 799 as well... meta me in that game if you want...

GIEFF: Screw your proposal.

[alexhans]

GIEFF: Are you blind?

DONT HAMMER UNTIL I POST I SAID!! I've posted.

Yes. I rather live (I know Im town) and let mastin die and see what happens tomorrow.

If I had a nightkill... I would kill you so you would shut up with your stupid questions...

Why is Cephrir hurting the game more than blackcatcontract/Kairyuu or Mastin?

Cephir has 4 Posts... he is TOTALLY unreadable. bcc and mastin are list are supposedly catching up. Cephir is not. he did the same thing in mafia 91.

[alexhans]

GIEFF... what happens if Mastin, Camn and I are town? and you were REALLY REALLY wrong?

I'm gonna let the remaining players to say what they think about Battle Mage and me, AND WHY (hint KMD, frigging HINT) before I decide if I need to vote for Mastin or not.

MOD: Please. Find a replacement for Cephir. He is clearly NOT playing and will hurt the game. It will already be a lot of pain to read all this

Second, make this a LONG night so the replacement gets a chance to read this and people who need to catch up or re-read are able to do so.

Thanks

[alexhans]

Whoever tries to speculate with nightkills, after voting Mastin for it, will be just bullshitting, at this point. (Benmage:1089)

SensFan makes yet another useless post.
Zach... Just vote? nothing else? come on...

I DONT like Benmage's waggon just for the daybreak posts... Are we seriously gonna follow yesterday's procedure?
Mastin went from NK speculation and you guys waggoned him.
Now BM does the same (despite he found this suspicious from Mastin's part) and you're all waggoning him at the speed of light? I agree it's weird. But let's take our time and discuss everyone's standings a bit more.

Benmage... if you're town... Self voting is stupid. Unvote/Vote whoever you suspect.

1119: GIEFF... I don't want to disrespect you so I'm gonna shut up. But you better meta me and find out if what you think is buddying to camn and all that *censored* you added is true or not.

My interest in Gieff has subsided only because of the new surge of idiocy.

??? THe idiocy surge came after your posts...

Alex - what are your thoughts about Mastin, now that you know his alignment? What are your thoughts about Benmage flipping out yesterday because I said it seemed like he was flipping out?

My thoughts to Mastin's flip are... Anger about his commitment to this game, resignation to the fact town failed and a big sensation of I-told-you-so.

When did he flip out? 944? Your case was fabricated by your own mind...

1137: So... ACcording to you... it's Camn+Bemage+Alexhans?
1151 I though you were dead sure it was Camn+Ben+Alex to add zach jammer sens seems weird... Are you even sure who do you suspect?
-----------------------

We have Cephir, BCC/KAi and DDD Who are 3 People in this game that HAVENT contributed enough. They're unreadable. DDD even refuses to colaborate unless we ask him direct questions... For all we know they could be all scum.

-----------------------

MOD: What's up with Cephir?

ALEX NOTE: Replace out from any Cephir large games or find his house and shoot him.

Zach... rushing a lynch when several players haven't voted is anti-town.

I'm kinda busy now but I'll come back to show you why we need to lynch MR.fullofBS (also called Battle Mage). Who was also "woot" surprised he was not killed.

[alexhans]

You're so full of it BM... Your whole move to clear yourself from Mastin's lynch is really clear... You "suspected" him and waggoned him but when it was certain he was getting lynched you came out to say he was town??? come on...

I'll be home in about an hour. See you then.

[alexhans]

meh... Could'nt post yesterday when I came back from a college meeting...

Reading now... I preemptively support a BCC waggon over a Cephir one, if you're voting lurkers.

[alexhans]

GIEFF... stop repeating you find me scummy every time as if to reinforce your consistency. We all made mistakes. You're making one about me.
And the fact that you seem to have time to discuss every single phrase till death doesn't mean you're right always.

A proof that Battle Mage is scum is that he is enjoying this too much...

I think Alex’s reaction to my behavior is hilarious and he can’t spell the word collaborate properly.

Thanks, that will really help my english spelling... Now... does this help the game or is just another unnecessary attack?

What I don't get about lurkers is... Why do they avoid the thread altoguether? They could at least post they're trying to catch up or something...

GIEFF. Stop flooding this game so much. Make a post with all the players in the game and what you think about them and shut it for a while. You've already made "strong" cases against half the players in this game.

Benmage: I don't have a scum read on GIEFF... wcs he's neutral. He just seems to pick someone and convince himself that they're scum and start pushing and pushing and pushing. Like a prosecutor trying to win a case, resorting to every argument.

GIEFF... omg... stop portraying me as scum in EVERY scenario man... think for a moment.

GIEFF... what about BM's OMG im alive? Isn't that scummy?

KMD: don't just vote... when you can... comment on the game, please.

If I got the chance to have Alex and benmage (and any other people that are posting way too much) replaces with massive lurkers, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'm not posting a lot. I'm posting once a day so stop saying idiotic things... I'd totally replace you with someone that actually posts stuff and not just unreasoned votes and fluff backing himself up on crappy meta.

1354: Fair enough. But there's too many times where you've totally convinced and you later changed your mind in lue of a more convenient waggon.

I'm actually going to do an exercise of cleaning the slate and making all of you neutral. Performing a fast re-read and making a voting patern.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now

I'd like that... because I figure that if tomorrow Cephir flips town you're gonna come up with some excuse...

Vote BCC

(let's see how this rolls)

question: Where's SpireX?

People who should lower their posts a great deal:

GIEFF, Benmage, Battle Mage, (ok, maybe me, I'm busier anyway)

People who should post relevant content ASAP

: SensFan, DDD, Cephir, SpyreX, BCC,

People who should clarify who they suspect (and why)

: jammer, camn, Zach, KMD.

[alexhans]

Battle Mage screw your plead for civility.... You're lame

*Alexhans is greatly supressing his urge to swear more insulting words.

1) I told you as soon as I could that you were doing the same thing Benmage did. Saying oh.. wow... glad im alive...
3)You Planned multiple lynches with me and mastin. I'm not doing it. I think before I lynch someone.
4) I can't up my posting atm. I'm pretty busy and you're just adding fluff to the game so nobody can catch up.

[alexhans]

you try hardest calling me a hypocrite or something worst everytime you have a chance? That's not cool.

the numbering responds to the paragraphs you made.

about 1. GIEFF, SF and Zach found Ben scummy for what he did. I wonder if they think your "wow, Im alive" post is scummy too or not. You called me a hypocritce for asking GIEFF a question about something I had already pointed out.

I'm pretty mature unless someone keeps trying to throw me off like you've done all game long.

[alexhans]

BS... You call what I do is not game relevant and what you do is? BS... and more BS... If I was on a personal crusade against those whose playstyle I don't like in this game I would be lynching SensFan, DDD, Cephir, BCC, Camn, maybe GIEFF, maybe KMD. I want to lynch scum. I want to lynch you. The fact that you defended BCC over Cephir makes me confident about not voting Cephir.

The tantrum proved to be right. Mastin was waggoned for NK speculating, then his lynched became a viable choice. Later, his lurking added to the case and he ended up lynched. So I had every right to do what I did.

Read my posts and see what I think about Benmage. You'll probably find something you just skipped that answers your questions.

[alexhans]

What part did you not understand of BM, GIEFF, Benmage should bring their posts down, drastically?

It's impossible to catch up as it is. And most of the stuff you guys are adding is fluff (Specially BM's, he quotes entire posts to write 1 sentence, STOP)

[alexhans]

Great Job everyone... Nice quicklynch.

specially Camn and SensFan...

FoS: SensFan

Don't hide behind your scummy meta of hammering without reason.

Vote Battle Mage

It's him, bcc or maybe SensFan today.

Bye.

[alexhans]

My reads

GIEFF: Town
jammer: Town
Benmage: Almost town

Zach: neutral, leaning town
SpyreX: neutral, leaning town

DDD: neutral. leaning Scum
bcc: neutral, leaning scum
Sensfan: neutral, leaning scum
KMD: neutral, Leaning Scum.

BM: scum

I know there can't be that much scum... But I'm not really sure who is really scum. BCC, I have no reads but Kai's exit + gut makes him look scum. DDD's lack of scumhunting is scummy. KMD's attitude towards Camn is scummy. KMD's play so far is scummy. SensFan is anti-town to the max. He may be hiding behind his meta.

We need some BCC, DDD and SensFan input ASAP

We have 3 scum in that 5 person pool. We have at least 2 more lynches. So there's no way we can fail to lynch scum. But we should try to lynch right today. I'm very confident BM is the right lynch. I'm gonna think a bit about pairings but I'm not sure how much can I trust that.
-------------------------------

GIEFF:

What do you think about your Camn+Alex theory now?

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Good. That will be healthy for the game.

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

And probably because your massive rain of posts pulled this game into a bloody confusion that helps scum.
-------------------------------

Battle Mage (this is all for you)

:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I didn't vote you for that waggon. I vote you because you're scum and you supported a quicklynch but tried to stay off it...

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point,

Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan. There's no GOOD policy lynches. We have to lynch scum not people that we dislike for some reason.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

IIRC, you said she was town...
regarding GIEFF's performance... there's 2 choices... he is scum... or he is town and is hurting the town with his enormous quantities of posts where he just tunnel visions on someone and keeps trying to find reasons to call them scum. I think the latter.

I was one of the prime lynch pushers, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

Wich is inconsistent... Why did you derail the bcc waggon but then didn't take responsability for the Cephir one?

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

This is bs. You're night speculating when you voted Mastin for it.

1508: shows why you're scum. Now you say that the Cephir vote had evidence that indicated he was scum? And you call Camn scummy NOW? And VP Baltar obv town? This is all designed to make you look good.

Do you realize that scum can buss each other? If you do... then you'll see that anti-pairing is not so effective.

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?

Huh? Are you looking to see if you have support for a mislynch?

Why do you keep asking who does the kill implicate when we all know that scum has 100 % control over it? Didn't SensFan and DDD said that? Didn't you agree? Why do you use it when it's convinient to you? (That was rethorical, the answer is because you're scum)

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

It's amazing how you try to look town and buddy GIEFF in every post but still want others to pick on what you say and make him look scummy.
--------------------------------

[alexhans]

^^ Wich is exactly what everyone blamed Mastin for... Auto-clearing himself.

[alexhans]

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

-----------------------
Some post to show you that BM doesn't even know what he is saying and is trying to BS everyone everytime.

113

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

------------------------------------
142

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

I never concluded there was 3 scum... I just went along with everyone because everyone kept telling me that 4 was improbable. Wether it's 4 or 3, There's still 3 scum in that pool.

[alexhans]

until 1537:

short answers to BM's bullshit are...

* You twist things and forget the game's events
* I suggest you read back.
-------------------------

Why do you want more input from 3 people who you think are more likely than not to be scum?

WTF? When did I say they were not likely to be scum? As far as I know... leaning scum means that they are likely to be scum.
STOP... TWISTING... MY... POSTS!!!

mmm... fluff... fluff... idiotic fluff that tries to say I'm scum without commiting yourself.

I've been worse than useless? You're being totally wrong.

I didn't tunnel vision on you. I gave you a fair chance to prove me wrong. But you proved me you were scum.

You DISTANCED from Cephir's mislynch. Why push so hard and not vote him? When I thanked everyone and voted you, you defended yourself saying you hadn't been on Cephir's waggon.

There's probably no point on you talking. Because you keep fencesitting and trying to buddy people into not suspecting you but you still try to get them lynched.

fluff... you keep trying to misinterpret what I say... You ad hom me trying to discredit me... You go on a tangent. You keep trying to make me look scum but not actively push my lynch because when I flip town it will probably bite you in the ass.

Lmao. I don't really see what you're getting at here. Firstly, you were pro-kill speculation. Secondly, how does scum having control over the kill mean we cant speculate? :S

You're wrong. Read back.

I'm not interested in a Gieff-lynch at this point. Nor do i really want an Alex-lynch. I actually just want you to stop posting. Razz

Doesn't look like it. You continue asking BS questions. Misreping what I say.

@Everyone:

Read Battle Mage in ISO so you can understand why you need to vote him. Then do it, please. He has been the Prince of Bullshit all game long. To that we can add the Mayor Fencesitter title.

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
He continues to suggest that


@Benmage: I know what BM really stands for: Bullshit Master.

[alexhans]

Where's the 4th scum then, smart guy?

sigh... If there IS a 4th... it's there too... duh...

GIEFF: I know we should stop. He is doing this on purpose. I have to give some kind of answer. He will try to portray non-responses to idiotic questions as scummy. I've gotten to know him.

Not gonna respond more idiotic questions from BM for a while. I'll answer them In a notepad and store them. If people feel they should be posted then I'll do so.

In the meantime. Vote BM for lynchee 2009.

[alexhans]

shhh... you're voting KMD... You've had your say. Now shhh... Let others speak. Go play some other game...

[alexhans]

WTF? Gloating is a scumtell? I have the right to attack those who played poorly and allowed a town lurker to be quicklynched over a possbile scum lurker. I'm not shutting up GIEFF forever... I'm just saying he should moderate his extreme posting... That's not shaming or any other bull of the kind... I just hated how he paired me up with Camn (Camn could be scum for all I knew) and said we were buddying and that i was coaching her. He used that as an argument to try to lynch me over Mastin. It was a flawed argument, as we can see now.
---------------------------------
BCC hasn't posted since 19 July... however... he confirmed first night and then via kairyuu... what's up with that?

DDD has posted in other places but hasn't even posted to say hi...

GIEFF... it would be cool if you could divide the votepatterns by days... for the next one...

[alexhans]

I never said that Camn town meant Alex town. I just said that an Alex+Camn scumpair because I used a buddying language (coaching?) was stupid.

And gloating is NOT a scumtell and I was definetly doing it. It represents a bit of joy in this messed up game.

read all you want... my reaction was some kind of I-knew-it resignation.
Link where GIEFF asked me the same question.

KMD: That happens when you're playing too much games at a time. I remember you saying you could play 10 games or more at a time. Take a break. Play fewer. But, play!

[alexhans]

Who's Dipeitro, Zachurlezl? XD

[alexhans]

Hi DDD (not so hard, right Zach?)

Mispelling is totally a scumtell too...

[alexhans]

lol.... You're so full of it BM...

everytime you see some anti-Alex feeling you try to mildly get me lynched. Although you've excused several times so they can't come back at you when I flip town...

you were the one who was saying Cephir was scum and BCC town for undisclosed meta reasons... cut the crap.

Also, make a list of reads like I did. Stop changing your mind with the tide.

Zach, GIEFF:

For God's sake. Don't repeat what I said as If I hadn't said it. I SAID Camn's death is a null tell for me. That's it. Doesn't make me town, doesn't make me scum. But that whole coaching concept was bullshit.

the end.

[alexhans]

What info would you get with my lynch Battle Mage?

What info did you get with Mastin's lynch? With Cephir's?

[alexhans]

Ok. I'll cut it out. But if you read BM's ISO... he has been trying to flame me for a while now... And he succeeded...

The fact that BM throws a smiley after each insult doesn't make him civil.

he's trying to lynch me because Im town but because he think I'm anti-town??? ARGH!!!

Battle Mage, DDD and BCC

Please, Post a similar list to mine and say who do you think is scum.

DDD, that is a DIRECT request to you. Don't avoid it.

[alexhans]

SensFan. Explain (when you have time) in 200 words or less why I'm probably scum.

Nobody called you out for not posting while V/LA. People called you out for not contributing to the game and being inconsistent with your lynching attitudes. Why would you hammer Cephir after saying you hadn't read anything?

[alexhans]

DDD... You should know English is not my native language... So give me a break with the spelling mistakes.

Zach: You've got to be kidding me...

[alexhans]

*sigh... I wish you weren't. Suit yourself then.

[alexhans]

Looking at the votecounts... BM presents an interesting case...

He waggoned Mastin but ended up saying he was obvtown.
He waggoned GIEFF but when facing pressure suddenly expressed GIEFF Was town.
Now, after trying to get people to vote me and voting me himself, he expresses he thinks I'm town (while he is still voting for me). He voted me on D1, then unvoted to vote GIEFF. When GIEFF pushed my lynch. BM hopped on. Later, he voted jammer saying it was jammer+alexhans.

Also, loking at the votecounts... I've found some other issues that raised my attention (I'll look into them later, consider them a tocheck list but you can definetly answer/quote if you feel like):
1) Why did GIEFF went back to Mastin? (just because he couldn't get others to lynch me or Camn?)
2) Battle Mage voted Camn (twice)? Why, exactly? (was one following GIEFF or Benmage? What about the 2nd one?
3) Battle Mage suddenly voted for jammer, presumably to find the jammer+Alex scumteam. What happened to this?
4) jammer and SensFan weren't voting at the end of D1... why?
5) Why did jammer vote Benmage on D2? does he still feel the same about him?
--------------------------

If I am reading your thought process correctly, you suspect BM and alex are scumbuddies?

You are correct.

LOL.... That would be one hell of a bus.

I'll leave the rest of the comments for BM...
--------------------------
Zach is really voting me because I gloated... riiiiight.

[alexhans]

Zach. Also, I take it that your suspicion about me now overrides GIEFF, Benmage and Battle Mage right?

You really Zach (If you get my drift).

[alexhans]

I am about as suspicious of Battle Mage as I am of you. I could easily cast a vote on Battle Mage should any kind of wagon form on him.

Don't give me this Cephir over BCC crap... We were equal on votes until you chose to vote me... If someone votes BM... will you vote BM then?

[alexhans]

then vote BM.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Pretty please.

[alexhans]

EBWOP2: With sugar on top.

[alexhans]

sigh...

Zach: Right now... State why you are voting me...

Gloating and defending mastin... Anything else?

[alexhans]

No need Zach, just fail again....

You've just acknowledged that you're voting me with one of the lamest cases presented up to date...

[alexhans]

Walls of texts have nothing to do with it.

Unlike you. I got a good read on him. I understood his playstyle. It fitted. He jumped in this game with a great deal of energy and a theory. It wasn't strange coming from him. Further posts gave me the same vibe and his ignorance regarding his dangerous position resembled what I had seen in Mini 791 Beard Mafia.

I already told you that gloating is not a scumtell... what else should I do? Not everything depends on meta evidence... I don't recall a game where I gloated like in this one but I've never been as annoyed as I've been here either... People managed to lynch against my wishes TWICE without good enough reasons (specially Cephir's lynch, wich was over in a flash thanks to players like SensFan). I'm entitled to let them know. If you think that's a scumtell then you better throw your mafia scumtell handbook to the can.

You can check a theme game where I strongly defended Firestarter (who ended up being town). That brought me a lot of flak too. The only difference here is that Mastin's defense was much earlier, therefore, I wasn't really sure if he was town, just that the case against him sucked.

[alexhans]

Sigh... this is were it gets IDIOTIC... I backtrack in a sentence? Nice Misrep then...

Perhaps I don't. Discussing theory when I'm town and DID gloat is outright stupid.

ANALIZE THIS GAME. There has been a lot of fights and flaming. Gloating is only natural. Besides, am I the only one who did a, presumably, anti-town thing? (wich is really not) What about Camn's and Benmage's self-vote?

I'm not interested in proceeding with this discussion seeing you're not interested in objectivity. You claimed you prefered to vote me because DDD had said gloating is not a scumtell... why dont you ask him? How stupid is that? (yes, I know that calling you stupid will cause you to be more convinced to vote me... But, at this point, I don't care. I've never had. As opposed to BM who was always afraid to get painted as scummy)

[alexhans]

Zach... Why the sudden fervor for my lynch as opposed to BM's?

GIEFF.... By good read I meant that I was right. Not that I was 100 % certain. I had a

correct

read of allignment.

Also, my sample of scum games is very small for you to get much from it. In 714 I was really new to this and open 129 was a very weird and easy game. Situations were different too. For the first games, I had no internet at home so I had a somewhat limited access. Up till now... I had never played just ONE game on MS. I always played more. Therefore, I think my posting amount is a null tell. Not a town tell.

Other than that. My defense of Mastin was legitimate and correct. My gloating is totally understandable. So... Zach hasn't got a case but is acting crazy.

We STILL need input from other players.

Zach 1691: Are you trying to manipulate GIEFF instead of answering why you've seemed to change so much from "I'll go with any bandwaggon on Alex/BM" to "I need to convince people to lynch Alex"?

[alexhans]

AGAIN: Zach, If GIEFF or somebody else votes BM... would you change your vote?
It would be:
BM (2) Alex, Someone else
vs
Alex (2) BM, Zach.

[alexhans]

That's not a gall... that's a tactic... Otherwise... how would he explain that he didn't keep pursuing me after each time he unvoted me and voted someone else?

Also, he is justifying my lynch as a policy lynch just in case I remain with him in lylo... Awesome way to lynch a townie and don't be responsible for it.

I also know that I might be wrong... but at this moment, I'm 90 % sure I'm not.

[alexhans]

sigh... I'm not gonna be going back on forth all day long...

anyway... do you want me to comment on your answer?

I don't think he was making excuses about me... I think that he is just trying to convince others that I'm scummy while still pretending that I'm a newb or an idiot so that, if he lynches me, when I flip town he can say... ohh... but he looked scummy...

He is very arrogant... calling me schoolboy, hypocrite, etc, etc... and then trying to be the victim when I call out his bs (my new 2 favourite letters). You may even notice that I've never been as agressive (and maybe disrespectful) as I was in this game. But some people's refusal to cooperate or desire to be disrespectful and condescending really bothered me.

[alexhans]

God!!! If you think he is bussing me... Vote HIM!

[alexhans]

ok... KMD... no, wait... Benmage!!!

I wholeheartedly welcome GIEFF's change of mind (if that's what it is). But you should see that there's still a reason for it.

He acted pretty sure Camn was scum all along. Then went for me because I was "coaching" and "buddying" Camn. Now that Camn is town. His whole theory falls into pieces.

Anyway... I understand your point. He could've even plotted killing Camn so he had an excuse to not pursue me anymore... But I'm not scum... so... keep guessing...
-----
Zach 1705: At this point... if I don't take things with a bit of humour (just a bit, I'm earnest about you voting him) I'm gonna start cursing at everyone that talks to me... Always remember... You've chosen who to bandwaggon... BM and I were just voting each other.

[alexhans]

BM... You're not the only I've analized... I've read Zach and SpyreX over the night too. It's just that your behaviour have switched too much... You've been inconsistent and wishy washy and have constantly appealed to emotion. Why do you feel the need to meta threaten me every time?

I've thought this over REAL good man... I didn't come to a hasty conclusion. Yet, every time you appeal to emotion you succeed on making me doubt. So I realize that you're really dangerous and could fool someone easyly.

Why do you think that you're gonna be lynched already? There's only 2 votes today and I don't see a reason why this should be a short day.

I can even propose you a deal... We lynch someone today with your seal of approval. If he is town, we lynch you tomorrow, no matter what.

Why do you think Jammer is scum?

I think you would make a great lynch, BM.

Are you trying to derail bcc's wagon?

Added by Alex: Again?

1741: So you were not scummy at all? Also... Now you say you've got no reads?

Yesterday, i was more convinced that BCC was town,

because your attack on him was so contrived.

Now im not so convinced. That does not make BCC a good lynch.

Wait, I thought you were convinced BCC was town because of your magical meta read you can't share with us?

Having trouble keeping your story straight?

true BM... Very true. You never gave a solid reason.

You already know my main reason for thinking BCC to be town. It's completely reasonable. However i was convinced further by the fact you were defending Cephrir so shoddily, in an attempt to push a wagon on him. Cephrir coming up town, and having the night to think about it, has made me ease off a bit.

It still doesn't make sense man... You lynched Cephir because GIEFF (who you thought town) was against him? You keep on with the wishy washiness... If you thought it was an Alex+JAmmer+(by the looks of it, GIEFF because he was trying to lynch a townie?) why did you vote Cephir?

GIEFF... BCC is not a bad lynch... But I need everyone else to chip in and tell us what they think about all this.

Specially SensFan, BCC and DDD.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: on hindsight, forget about my lynching proposition with a seal of approval.... It's stupid if you're trying to lynch both my town reads...

[alexhans]

Yes, there's a special post restriction where you have to say his name three times in front of a mirror in a darkened room for him to appear.

*Alexhans stands in front of a mirror...
"blackcatcontract..."
...
"blackcatcontract..."
gulp
"blackcatcontARGGHHHAHH!!!!!!

[alexhans]

Lol, you should work on that. In my experience, his reads are pretty shoddy.

You haven't seen Newbie 744. Raivann and I had the entire town eating out of the palms of our hands til Charter replaced in. Right, Alex?

Actually... i had never gotten into that game after my re-read. In wich I found you and Raiv... Of course, the replacements helped a great deal.

BM... you can have more than a week... i'd like this day to be clear and long with as less fluff as possible. I'd REALLY like to hear from bcc.

Who's conspiring?

[alexhans]

I assume nothing yet on the bcc front? Can we get a replacement?

Please?

He hasn't posted since July 19th... I don't care if he said he was here at night... He didn't even have the deference to come and say "hello" or "I'm sorry".

[alexhans]

Also, calling a possible limited access next few days. As I'm not sure how much free time I'd have left over by then.

*Alexhans points at the above quote ^^

[alexhans]

KMD (When he comes back): I take that you think now that it's BM+Alex+GIEFF?

Looking at KMD's Columbus Post I see that he wrote that 4 of 6 players were scum. I thought I was practically the only one who thought about 4 scum.

BM: Do you think that saying "I'm town" every post helps you?

I don't like appeal to emotion. Benmage, Camn and BM have all done it and it sucks. In Benmage's case... it was pretty useful for him since many people had ended up he was town due to it. In Camn's case, I chose to ignore it altoguether. Wich is what I'm doing about BM's AtE.

[alexhans]

Interesting how people who suggest that GIEFF was town so he had to be killed by scum are now voting for him. The whole SpyreX-GIEFF exchange looks bad for SpyreX who seems to be wearing a bmlindfold.

This case on BM is rainbows.

Why? Do you remember BM's play all game long? Are you kidding me? Why, EXACTLY, do you think BM is town?
1872: it sure looks like excusing yourself in case of a mislynch...

READ MY POSTS to understand what's the case against BM.

Do you even realize that BM is constantly trying to auto-clear himself?

@Everyone:

Read Battle Mage in ISO so you can understand why you need to vote him. Then do it, please. He has been the Prince of Bullshit all game long. To that we can add the Mayor Fencesitter title.

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
He continues to suggest that

Do me a favour and read this.

[alexhans]

Yes. You're ignoring BM's scummyness and you voted GIEFF after some kind of lawyerly contraption where either he should be lynched because he wasn't NKed even though he was was pro-town (you conclude he must be scum then) or he should be lynched because he admits being scummy after a ridiculous discussion where you also add that there's no case against Battle Mage.

[alexhans]

1889: BM... you say that GIEFF had only 2 serious votes and therefore he was not in danger or not scummy before now? How is that consistent with your own foresight that you're doomed because of 2 votes on you?

It seems GIEFF asked this in 1890

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.

So you think that you're in a worst position than GIEFF has ever been? That is now?

I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch.

People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped

I remember reading a user's wiki page that said never to trust you.

BM, do you think GIEFF is scum? I'd like you to do this about him:

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

[alexhans]

TITLE OF THE POST: Why did BM choose to lynch Cephir over BCC?

.

Based on real facts

Author: Alexhans

Your blatant ignorance of a BCC lynch because you had no info whatsoever will always be fishy to me. Let's have a look, shall we?:

I checked since since you first voted Cephir (you hadn't mentioned BCC as town so far...

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

I would appreciate you finding that reason for me, as I prefer voting for BCC if we must do a lurker wagon.

I think you do make a good point though about the need to pressure the lurkers to actually participate.

Ok, will do. In the meantime, wanna fill me in on YOUR reasoning?

BM

Avoids the question and gives it to Zach. Never looked into the "BCC=town" matter.

Zach-why not Cephrir?
Keeps trying to make others give reasons instead of giving them himself.
BM

BM was asked and never answered why he prefered Cephir over BCC.

But seriously, I think we should bandwagon one of them. I would prefer blackcatcontract, as that "character" has had TWO posters lurk with it. And because Cephrir lurks a lot as town.

See, this is something we can both agree on. It must certainly be a good idea then.

*facepalm*

I DID look into why i felt BCC was likely to be town, and it stands, but isnt a meta i can reference. The same was true with Mastin, and you ignored me there. Maybe you can give me the benefit of the doubt this time?

My Cephrir vote stands. Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

BM

Same thing. Doesn't explain why BCC is town and asks GIEFF for proof.

Yeah...

I thought he was scum.

You made a pretty big thing of an argument that he was town. That's another thing that bothers me about you.

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably be on you for as long as I am alive in this game, unless something happens at a critical moment in the game that convinces me that you are town.

is that because you've committed yourself so much that you can't be seen to backtrack now?

I'm not wagonning BCC until we've exhausted the Cephrir avenue. How's that for direction?

BM

exhausted the Cephir av???

Of course i wouldnt have hammered Mastin. Firstly, i was in favour of a far longer day. Secondly, it was SO fricking obvious that Mastin was town. His lurking was not scummy. Just because i couldnt reference the meta, doesnt mean i was wrong.

More on the mastin is town sudden BM change... He was voting me and pushing my lynch in the end of day 1... if you recall... On day 2 he was voting Zach... after having pushed so hard for a Cephir lynch...

And the fact that he says that not being able to reference meta doesn't make you wrong is weird seeing how muc he asks others to do so...

*major facepalm*

Reading this page alone, i feel i should say something along the lines of:

You guys suck!

Though that's directed solely at Alex, Jammer and Gieff (although less so the latter). BCC is an inferior wagon to Cephrir. But as nobody is going to trust me AGAIN, i'm best off pursuing a new route.

Unvote

BM

No comments.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now. I'm not happy with you continually blowing smoke in my direction, but being too damn wimpy to actually substantiate it.

Regarding your question above, yes, i was not intending to pursue BCC as a secondary candidate after Cephrir, because i feel BCC is probs town.

I don't see why my "selectiveness" is any worse than yours. But, as i say, you can either vote for Cephrir, vote for me, or apologise for casting doubt on my allegiances.

Why? WHY? Why is BCC town?

btw, Reading how you tell me I suck and other things I can't see how you can ask me to be respectful a couple of posts later with a straight face.
-----------------------------------------
I

REALLY

encourage people to read BM in ISO and you will see how NOTHING fits, nothing stays the same... attitudes and suspicions switch conveniently.

[alexhans]

1895: Was it necessary to quote the whole post to add one sentence? Isn't that typical of people who want to look like they post without actually saying anything?

Tell me, will you trust me when i flip?

Only if you flip town.

I agree... We've got time...

[alexhans]

based on BCC and kai. You ARE on my lynch list. But I'll give you time to have your say... besides, you're not the only one... and BM is the best lynch ever.

This game is horrible, especially considering how hard our poor mod worked to recruit reliable people

err... the mod?

I think Sens, Spyrex, and BM have played scummy, scummier than bcc has in his 4 posts and than you have in your 2 or 3, but experience tells me that scum lurk, and that the odds are very low that ALL 3 of the mega-lurkers are town.

So you just leave DDD out?

[alexhans]

So you're excusing BM's overall inconsistent play because he sucked the whole game or something? Why do we keep allowing people to do this kind of stuff and excuse their scumminess because it's their playstyle??

Read my 3rd day's iso for reference on BM.

[alexhans]

BM's change of mind about GIEFF. ISO 41

5) I'll agree at this point that night speculation, at least in the direction everyone is looking, is pointless. However, saying that Battle Mage voted Mastin for night speculation doesn't cover half of it.

Yeah, he also was afraid because Mastin's analysys pointed in his direction. Same with SensFan.

I have the right to attack those who played poorly and allowed a town lurker to be quicklynched over a possbile scum lurker.

If you KNEW Cephrir was town, tell me, why didnt you say anything? Yet another terrible scum-slip.

*zing!*
See what I mean when I say that there's a compelling case to be made against everyone?

not right. He just went for a semantics issue. There was no reason to defend you/BCC/Kai over Cephir. I never KNEW anything. That's just a typical misrep from BM, who switches opinions conveniently.

Also, Vi, Dont EVER write a line so large as the lurklurklurk because it screws with the page size and I have to scroll sideways.

in fact,

Mod, Could you cut Vi's "lurklurklurk" scream in more than one line so I don't need to scroll this page to read every line? thanks

[alexhans]

Vi... To understand BM's varying positions towards Mastin and me I suggest that you open Firefox and use Ctrl-f highlighting everywhere in his ISO where he mentions Mastin. He keeps going back and forth regarding his allignment to get me lynched.

Damnit bro. Could you BE any more transparent? I'm intrigued to hear what Mastin makes of this. You quite clearly KNOW that Mastin is town, because you wouldnt defend your buddy like this. What i dont understand is the passion behind it. Are you and Mastin a couple irl?

Maybe if you quit whinging and listen to the points against Mastin with an open mind, you might fare better in the game.

first he implies I'm scum and mastin is town and in the following paragraph tries to coach me into viewing Mastin's scummyness?

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

Ok. In terms of votes, what Mastin achieved, instead of a random selection of reasonless votes, was a wagon on himself. Now, if you dont think that wagon was legit, then effectively, we are no better off than we would have been with the random stage. If you believe Mastin has destroyed the RVS, then you are, by definition, acknowledging that the wagon on Mastin is valuable, and most probably, that he is scum.

ISO 24 is worth a read
oh... and also, note the enormous amount of loaded questions that contradict each other in our war of wall posts...
in 27 he votes GIEFF because "Might as well put my vote somewhere useful. "

mastin's absence is not scummy.

This Mastin defense comes out of nowhere...

woah... check ISO 29 out He votes VP... Wasn't VP obv town in his opinion? And in 55 ISO he unvotes and votes Camn without ever pursuing VP...
ISO 65: He says to VP "cant shake the feeling you are scum. Did i hear back on a link to a game of yours? "
until in 73 there's one of those sudden changes of mind where he declares VP Baltar town because of meta (mainly involving a "bad play"? in mafia 91).
What does this means?

[alexhans]

Dude... every time I read you to try to understand your motives it looks WORST for you. I become even more convinced. The only thing that made me doubt was your avalanche of AtE wich I've learned is healthy to ignore.

[alexhans]

I will try to take the time to make the BM case for you, but it will be a lot of work, and will be a long post. You said you would read his behavior yesterday regarding bcc vs. Cephrir - have you gotten a chance to do so yet?

I'd prefer if you DIDN'T make a long case against BM... You've already proved that you can't investigate with a neutral mentality and you just look for things to support your theory and find ways to fit everything towards your conclusion.

In other words. Any "large & intense" scumhunting you migth do will be worth ZERO in my eyes (And probably in most people's eyes). I don't forget what you did about Camn and me.

Try making overall and short points and only develop if they ask you about them...

[alexhans]

@alexhans 1973: Now that seems to be an uncalled-for post. I would like for you to post a little more though.

It's not. It's a fact. He must be brief or otherwise it's gonna be worth zip, zero, nada. Just look at the past.

And about me posting more. I've posted enough. I've been pretty busy this days. I'm reading when I can and thinking. Meanwhile, you can read the ISO that you skimmed to get to know me better.

Nah, Benmage was pretty clearly Town before the meltdown.

Why?

I don't want to quarrel with SensFan but I don't see how he has collaborated (Did I zpell it write, Mrs.DDD?) much more than DDD... He acts all matter of factly everytime and doesn't quote any evidence or develops any argument.

[alexhans]

Still pretty busy but I'll return to the game ASAP.

It wouldn't be unhealthy that the less active players took the handles of this game for a while...

Jammer: Why am I on your lynching preference? Is it in order?

[alexhans]

Will read BM's post later ^^.

AH

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Still busy but it was too good to miss...

[alexhans]

Question: Are you the same Battle Mage who told us not to rush to lynch on page 40 of day 1?

[alexhans]

*shrug*

Vote: KMD

W.t.f why?

QFFT... Since when you suspect KMD???

How come we let SensFan NOT play all game?

Anyway, THOSE who complained about GIEFF and others because our walls of posts didn't let you play... Are definetly STILL not playing.

Hold on a bit longer... I'm coming back later today to win this game once and for all.

[alexhans]

QUICK DELAYED EBWOP: mmm.... fast writing makes me ignore basic grammar like....

"since when DO you suspect..."

Forgive me, DDD...

[alexhans]

DDD and SensFan are adding scumpoints for themselves... It's as if they were playing the anti-town card to the max....

well, well, well... Press Ctrl+f and write KMD in SensFan's ISO... look what you get:

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

KMD, BM, camn, Sens all seem to understand each other. You really think its because we're all Scum, as opposed to the fact we all have enough experience to see that none of us are being scummy?

So, as I showed, at least one of Camn/BM/KMD/Sens is Town*. Therefore, at least one of us is acting sincerely. Therefore, at least one of us genuinely thinks the other 3 are Town. We're also (unless I'm mistaken) the 4 most experienced players here, and the only ones that seem to know that different != scummy.

tldr; either put up or shut up. I expect that post of why I'm Scum in 200 words or less.

*Note that if indeed Camn/BM/KMD are Scum, the Town is fucked. Hell, I still think Town is fucked if 2 of GIEFF/Mastin/Alex/jammer are Town...

I will only vote BM/Camn/KMD/Sens at a deadline, to avoid a No Lynch.

*shrug*

Vote: KMD

DDD mentions KMD even less... He's only in a 50-50 % pool of 4 people in wich 2 are supposedly scum (with jammer, SpyreX and BCC)

I encourage people to confirm this by themselves

[/b]

[alexhans]

Fast read, fast post...

No need to rush to lynch, please.

Well done, alex, that looks pretty damning.

What do you think about my post 1487?

Nobody responded to it, and I didn't want to keep repeating it, but it was the main reason I voted for Sensfan at the start of this day. Do you think Sens' hammer was scummy?

I've been told off for voting SensFan because people claimed it was his playstyle. But if his playstyle means willing to be unhelpful, inconsistent and scummy I'm totally willing to lynch him. No matter how much he may scream at me.

Le Sigh.

IF KMD is town I swear to god no more dickin around and GIEFF dies tomorrow.

Unvote, Vote: KMD

This is amazingly scummy... Lining up lynches...

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

right... or votecount analysys wich said?

Alex and BM were voting each other end of Day 1. I usually say one scum is voting off the wagon. Possible, but two townies voting each other is also common. Gonna have to call this null I guess as lame as that is.

I also say a scum didn't vote. Black, Sens, and Jammer. Black was catching up, but did have time, so he's included.

So from Day 1, let's say 2 scum in DDD/Zach/Spy/GIEFF/Benmage (edited in. see Day 2), one in Alex/BM, and one in Black/Sens/Jammer.

So, according to you, BM and I just bussed each other all game long? May I remember you that you claimed to have gotten me and GIEFF as scum before...

I am staring in amazement at the speed at which KMD was run up to lynch -1.

Really not liking Spyrex's jump on the wagon at all, since his scum suspect DDD was also on that wagon.

interesting...

[alexhans]

I've been told off for voting SensFan because people claimed it was his playstyle. But if his playstyle means willing to be unhelpful, inconsistent and scummy I'm totally willing to lynch him.

Actually, my playstyle is pretty much the opposite of what you've described.
My pay in this game is also nowhere near what you've described, though I admit I'm behind my usual standard. Other priorities, and I don't give a flying fuck if you want to lynch me because of it. If it weren't for the fact this was a YawMod game, I'd have requested replacement N0, and absolutely nothing that has happened since has put any more want in me to play this game with people like you.

OK, I get it. You suck and there's nothing I can do about it. Go buy a teddy bear and hug it.

[alexhans]

Vote: Sensfan

His recent attitude isn't one that warrants continued existence.

Is he scum, though?

V/LA till tuesday 18th. If you lynch someone... Lynch Battle Mage. His inconsistency and scummyness outshines any other player's scummyness.

Don't worry. I'll come back to liven up this game.

SensFan should replace out if he is going to keep doing the anti-town 'cause I'm a rebel play...

[alexhans]

Back, Catching up. I'll post in less than 12 hs from now.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Urgh... Darkblue was automatic.... because I'm modding in that color... luckyly it's not a mod color here...

[alexhans]

I'm back, for those who've dared to call me a lurker, I hope you don't dare skim this

---------------------------------------

@KMD

Right, because not once have I gone after Alex, Mastin, BM, Zach, Black, or Jammer, right? I'm just the bully at the playground picking on you and only you.

Actually. You haven't gone after me with anything other than saying I'm scum.

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

What do you exactly make of the votecount analysys? Day 1: I think BM is scum. I vote BM. Day 2: I rather lynch BCC (with the added bonus that BM wants the other lurker lynched)
---------------------------------------

@GIEFF

Why are scum more likely to be defeatist than town?

BM's was more of an Appeal to emotion. He does it constantly and tries to portray it as playstyle.

SpyreX attitude towards the KMD waggon sounds forced. Weird.

To me seemed he was posting loads to seem town, instead of actually finding scum with any of it.

That is ridiculous. We haven't once lynched my preferred lynch-target. How do you know if I'm catching scum or not?

Well... At least one of your preferred candidates flipped town (Camn) and your 2nd preferred candidate on day 1 is town (I'm talking about me, even though you may not know my allignment, I do)

Don't confuse whom I am voting at any given moment with my preferred lynch-target.


I voted Battle Mage because he is either deliberately misunderstanding me, or missing incredibly obvious points to avoid having to respond to them.

How is this helpful? Why not vote who you want lynched, at this point?

@GIEFF: Dude... If we only questioned those who we absolutely thought were scum this game would fail, HARD. Although Zach reacted rather angry when I asked him stuff too.

Remember people. Questioning != Accusing.

GIEFF... why did you unvote BM?
---------------------------------------

@Battle Mage

Why are scum more likely to be defeatist than town?



And Spy, stop trying to chain-lynch me through others' alignments. You want to lynch me, come at me now. It's too easy for scum to control the game like that.

Gieff is clearly scum. The more i read his posts, the more i think that his attitude of asking questions to all and sundry isnt protown, its actually just a ruse. It works well for about 50 pages, but after that, people start to catch on that the questions mostly serve no real purpose, and are just a front. I like a Gieff lynch today. Continued gut feel.

BM

2127: WTF! After calling GIEFF town he claims to have a continued gut feel?

2129, now he votes DDD after claiming GIEFF is clearly scum???
2134

i was voting for him earlier, and nobody was interested. DDD seems lynchable, and he's more likely to be scum than Sens. Though, to be fair, DDD probably wouldnt rank in my top 3 suspects atm.

BM

oh god...

Can we remember who kept trying to make GIEFF look bad because of Camn's deaht??? that Was BM!!! Trying to lead the NK speculation from the sidelines...

I'm afraid people are forgetting everything BM has done in this game due to DDD's and SensFan's defiant and anti-town playstyles so far.
---------------------------------------

@Vi

GIEFF's vote on Battle Mage is lame mostly because there's no really good reason to stop voting for SensFan.

I'm looking forward to alexhans getting back and responding to what's gone on.

While I can understand a SensFan vote I'd rather lynch BM who has displayed all kinds of different scumtraits.

In less than a day and 40 posts he goes from "not really mentioned" to L-2. That doesn't strike you as odd? Further, add in that it was Alex who in 2063 made the "case" but hasn't jumped on it then hells-to-the-yes there is something amiss there.

The part about alexhans is something you'll have to ask him. alex is being scummy today for no discernible reason.

huh???? How the hell am I being scummy?
For the record, I WANT Battle Mage lynched. That doesn't prevent me from scumhunting and asking questions and posting what I think relevant. As the post I did about SF was.
---------------------------------------

@jammer

Why, alexhans as candidate. Some little things, call that gut.

I'd like you to explain as explicitly as possible where does all this "gut" come from.
---------------------------------------

@Zach

@Zach: As you can see if you ISO me, I also considered SpyreX voted and linining up of lynches scummy.

2219: Very nice Zach. Bullseye.

@Those voting SF or DDD

are you willing to vote for the other? It seems as if we are divided on two very similar people. Much like we did between Bcc/Ceph. Let's just join one wagon and be done with it.

Yeah, I was willing to do this before wasn't I?

What could possibly go wrong with having this mindset?

... I'd like to think I'm capable of learning from mistakes.

Yeah, I'm not sure that consolidating into one bandwagon and getting a lynch as quickly as possible is necessarily a great idea anymore. Hell, I feel silly for thinking it was a great idea in the first place.

My vote's not moving, not this time.

Why aren't you voting BM? Do you want to oblige others to vote who you are by saying you're set?
---------------------------------------

@SpyreX

First off: Sensfan has been playing the exact same way all game. Why all of a sudden did it become the coolest of kids to powerbomb him?

er... Cephir had also played the same way all game... SensFan has NOT played all game and when he posted, there were some scummy moves. That's why I voted him when I did and why I would maybe vote him now (although, right now, Battle Mage must be lynched)

2183 still doesn't really explain the KMD vote.

* The fact that alex started this and it took of and he didn't get a vote.

Can you rephrase this? You mean I didn't get to vote? Or I didn't get a vote against me?
---------------------------------------

@SensFan

I'll respond to the rest later, GIEFF, but in my timezone both the hammer and my previous post were on Wednesday, though 19 hours apart.

And yes. I guarantee you I won't be NK'd this game.

Yes, because you're either scum or helping them.

SensFan... quote a case of yours.

Make a case, and I'll respond.

I'm not going to make a Town-case on myself.

Hello Empking...

*sigh... SensFan keeps talking about others making cases and still doesn't quote a SINGLE case of his making... he only AGREED once or twice...

@Benmage: I am not willing to lynch DDD today.

You may have answered this already, but it's late at night so I'm going to ask again: Why?

I haven't seen a case against him that is anything more than lurking. I'm done with lynching lurkers. If lurking is part of a scummy pattern of behavior, then yeah, but no lynches that are based almost solely on activity.

He's not a lurker. He's an admitted active lurker.

Big difference.

You're an admitted non-player.

By the way, how come you unvoted Mastin when you noticed he was at L-1 if you were planning on hammering him anyway?
---------------------------------------

@Benmage

Benmage: What do you think about Battle Mage?

[...]I'd probably be in between the two if I didn't actively try and cut back. [...]
We lynched the lurkers. Let's lynch the "active lurkers".
[...]Even alexhans of late.[...]

I'll lynch any of the above but my preference would be:
[...]
Alexhans
[...]

WTF man... I've contributed a great deal to this game and people kept complaining about the lenght of my posts... I've shortened them as you did and was a bit budy this last couple of days. BUT, listen well, I've MADE my thoughts really clear. I WANT Battle Mage lynched.

Yeah I saw 2199 Zach...the dude has a plethora of inconsistencies/unhelpfulness/scumminess. How he is still alive is beyond me.

Ask that SAME question about Battle Mage. Honestly.

Either way, its obvious how far better off the Town would be if Sens had been, or will be, killed.

Moment of silence... *slow-clap*... QFT.

Hypocrite.

Not five posts ago, you agreed with Zach that I was scummy for assuming I wouldn't be killed. Now you're giving me a sarcastic clap in that you know how better off the Town would be if I was killed, which means you know as well as I do that I won't be killed.

Scum hypocrite.

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

WHERE'S YOUR F%·&% CASE oh almighty mafia player who has yet to show he has THE supreme skills?

@Those voting SF or DDD

are you willing to vote for the other? It seems as if we are divided on two very similar people. Much like we did between Bcc/Ceph. Let's just join one wagon and be done with it.

This is Bullshit man... We can't just join whoever has more votes... the same happened with the Cephir waggon an he flipped town. We need to get scum.

[alexhans]

er... Cephir had also played the same way all game... SensFan has NOT played all game and when he posted, there were some scummy moves. That's why I voted him when I did and why I would maybe vote him now (although, right now, Battle Mage must be lynched)

2183 still doesn't really explain the KMD vote.

Did you just say Ceph had a "playstyle" and Sens HASN't played but his posts were scummy?

I was being ironic but you might wanna ISO me to see what I saw in SensFan. By NOT PLAYING I mean that he has never EVER scumhunted but complained about everyone else.

And stop discussing Sens Vs DDD as if they were the only alternatives.

[alexhans]

Not much time...

Benmage... That SF quote was directed to SF, not you.

[alexhans]

Some fast questions:

@SensFan:

Why, Exactly, are you voting Benmage? What's your case?

@GIEFF:

Can we have an updated votecount? or it would be too much to ask? Thanks anyway.

@Zach & GIEFF:

What do you think about SpyreX activities on Day 1 and 2?

@Zach:

Are you aware of the number of times you have changed your vote today? Could you summarize your current suspects in a neat way?

@Jammer:

Also the point from alexhans somewhere, about questioning players that you do not suspect. Questioning players you do not suspect at all is rather pointless.

riiiight... How do you suspect someone in the first place then? By lurking and letting others speak? Also, once you have a town read you will not question a person again?

Why are you ignoring me? Why, if you think I'm scum, don't you ask me questions?

@Everyone:

1) If you could lynch 2 players at the same time (Assuming we had even numbers and it wouldn't lose us the game in case of 2 mislynches) who would they be? Why?
2) Choose the most probable town player between this 3 (BM, DDD, SF) and state why.

The current events make me take jammer from the town list to a neutral list because he is being EXTREMELY mild for my taste and doesn't give convincing reasons.
SpyreX ISO made me feel his was town but some of the recent events (eg: lining up lynches, etc) make me wary of him.
Vi/BCC, on the other hand, has been pro-town enough to leave my lynch list for today.

[alexhans]

@Zach:

Are you aware of the number of times you have changed your vote today? Could you summarize your current suspects in a neat way?

How many times have I changed my vote, and why are you suddenly interested in it when I vote for Spyrex, and not when I vote... say... Sensfan?

Well... if you don't know what you do with your votes...

As you may have guessed, a SensFan lynch wouldn't terribly dissapoint me because he was one of my main suspects since D1. Why do you get so defensive EVERY TIME I ask you something? You always attack me (or so it seems) after I ask you something... Are you implying I'm scum with SpyreX or what? And you just ignored my question.

Hey Sens, if you're able to continue this game, could you respond to the rest of my points in Post 2194?

Who are the other VIs?

Worst thing is...

He is the biggest, ugliest VI I've ever seen because you have to add to it a supreme arrogance and a complete stubbornness.

He OBV ignored my question. He ignores you. BUT, Listen to this, He IS reading...

I strongly suggest no one answer the "Everyone - 2" question. Just asking the question would have me voting alex, if this game didn't have too many VIs to count.

I strongly suggest that you play this game once and for all and stop sabotaging this game with that attitude.

[alexhans]

Nice. Defensiveness? No, I was curious why you suddenly would ask such a question when it's only one more vote change than it was when I was voting for Sensfan, who you admit you have no problem lynching. So what has really changed is the fact that I went from voting someone you didn't have a problem voting for to someone you apparently do have a problem with me voting for, so now you are calling how frequently my vote changes into question.

And the answer is no, I wasn't aware of how many times I changed my votes. I haven't been counting. I could go back and do that if you want.

To tell you the truth... I haven't liked any bandwaggons other than BM's bandwaggon. I don't want him to slip under the radar because of DDD's and SF's anti-town behaviours.

And my question was not motivated by liking SpyreX more than SF... it was motivated by my reminiscence of your votes and suspects...

GIEFF, BM, me, for example...

I'm getting a switchy feeling from you. That's why I wanted an update on your thoughts about the people in this game.

about the votecount... Don't worry. I'll do it for you as soon as I can if GIEFF doesn't beat me to it.

[alexhans]

@SensFan

Benmage, jammer, GIEFF, alex, and Mastin, off the top of my head, are people I made cases against.

I've actually looked and you should do it too... You started by calling Jammer, me and GIEFF were scum... suddenly, you added Mastin and voted him because he was the biggest waggon. You never made cases about that people... Just claimed experience and stuff and called everyone else a VI.
----------------------------

@Zach

Alex, what exactly does a switchy feeling mean?

It means that I can not follow your train of thoughts. I'm not even sure who are your suspects. You seem to live too much in the present and forget overall gameplay by wich I mean that you hang onto the latest scummy action and forget all the previous ones.

What do you think about my vote on Spyrex? Do you understand the reasoning?

Do you think there's anything wrong with the reasoning?

Can you detail why you prefer a vote on Battle Mage over Spyrex?

Your strong suspicion on SpyreX seems to begin with his L-1 vote. I totally agree with it and I added that SpyreX seemed to be lining up lynches to, presumably, mislynch KMD and GIEFF. BUT, this is all new... There's not much more to it. BM has been scummy ALL game. Has been inconsistent ALL game.

Half the game has voted for me. Zach has said numerous times he finds me scummy. Lately, he is leaning more town on me. I don't see the problem.

I guess I am required to vote for you after a certain amount of posts on a regular basis otherwise we're both scummy.

Isn't this one of those statements that you call scummy, Zach? I don't think GIEFF is scum. And I'm getting a probable town read on you, BUT, IF GIEFF were scum, it would perfectly fit that you were scum with him because attacking a person in the beggining of the game would help you distance.
----------------------------

@GIEFF:

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

@GIEFF:

No qualms at all about Zech turning into your parrot / ardent defender? Especially considering his voting record?

lol... QFT man... you were all angry when I agreed with you and called me scummy for buddying you...

Alex has voted remarkably infrequently for somebody who posts so much.

I give a great value and a lot of thinking to my votes. I don't need to vote someone to question him. I don't need to show I'm active or that I participate by voting everyone in the game.

That said, I want a BM lynch. That's why I'm voting him. Why the hell would I vote someone else?
-----------------------------

@Vi

GIEFF's vote analysis is almost completely worthless because there's no conclusion at the end. Likewise with this recent activity analysis.

It's NOT. It's useful as a guide for me... I can easyly go back to any votes and analize things.

alexhans 2350 is intriguing.

This comment is totally worthelss because there's no explanation nor conclusion about it.

GIEFF's vote analysis is almost completely worthless because there's no conclusion at the end. Likewise with this recent activity analysis.

Alex requested it, so I posted it.

Alex has voted remarkably infrequently for somebody who posts so much.

And

that

is a good observation.

You can see where my interest is right now.

Ohhh... But you failed to mention it, right?

Realistically, I don't have enough credible material to order a lynch and expect people to go along with it. But there are a couple of flags out that warrant consideration. His static voting pattern is one of them, especially considering the stated reasons for them.

Come again? Develop on this, please.
------------------------------

@jammmer

lul, how did I even reach that list?

That felt useless..

first of all... it's not useless because I update my suspicions. Unlike many of you who just switch without much explanation.

You had reached a town state due to many of the interactions you had on Day 1 and a bit on Day 2. I don't recall many things right now but you sounded earnest.
------------------------------

@DDD

I see no question marks... Early on? Within two weeks we were still in day one and had passed the 30 page mark. At that point doing an ISO case has already become unwieldy, especially with no lynch information to work from, it only got worse from there. And doing a partial ISO is just asking to miss the forest for the trees.

Are you town? How much do you care for this game? if you're town, who are you going to blame when we lose the game? What kind of evil pleasure are you getting from picking on useless things like grammar and spelling?

[alexhans]

Seriously, guys.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE KILL.

Its something the Scum have 100% control over, and I'm betting most/all of the Scum are now trying to use that to also control the Day phase.

Discussing and stating opinions about the Night Kill = Not Fucking Healthy
Shutting the fuck up about stuff the Scum has full control over = Healthy

I will not be repeating myself again.

Why do you ignore your own advice? Why DID you even said you were not going to be killed? What did that accomplish?

[alexhans]

I give a great value and a lot of thinking to my votes. I don't need to vote someone to question him. I don't need to show I'm active or that I participate by voting everyone in the game.

This reasoning is artificial at worst and counterproductive at best.

Your thoughts about this are bullshit at worst and wrong at best.

If you don't want everyone to forget about Battle Mage-lurker, why not continue referencing your vote on Battle Mage with why it's still there and how he's still the scummiest player in the game?

I kept going at BM long enough... I take that you are not reading me or otherwise you wouldn't pretend I'm not referencing my BM vote... Can anyone honestly say they don't know who I want lynched? I'll prepare a more concise and formatted list of all the things BM has done (There is more than one list if you skim my ISO) but it would be so much better if people just read his ISO. There's no consistency, no reasoning for his actions. He pulls the same scummy stunts that he tries to push on other people... He changes his suspicions with the tide however it fits him best.

Considering you just spent quite a bit of time accusing people of just switching around without much explanation, I find that your polar opposite approach is at least as unsatisfying.

I'll translate this:
"considering you're accusing people of doing something you find anti-town your doing the opposite thing is scummy"
WHAT ... THE ... FUCK ...

Yeah, I should totally do what I consider unhelpful... totally...

This comment is totally worthelss because there's no explanation nor conclusion about it.

Call it a breadcrumb.

Ohhh... But you failed to mention it, right?

And that's why I gave a hint as to what I'm thinking - to prevent you from saying "lol you just came up with that".

In a surprise move, I

don't say everything I'm thinking

to prevent cluttering the thread and losing my own focus.

You criticize GIEFF but then do what you criticized? ok, cool. It's consistent with your thoughts about doing what you think
is anti-town.
-------------------------------
@Zach: Yeah, right, you did the same thing when you voted for Hoopla in 761... jumped right at the scummy statement... But, you know, it's fine, you had no strong suspicions. I do have them.

btw Zach, IRC, you said that you were not suspicious of BM as you were before because he had explained his vote on Ceph over BCC... ok, did he explain why he wasn't on the waggon when he had PUSHED so much to get it?

If the basis of this entire paragraph's concern of me starts with "If Gieff were scum." It's pretty weak.

*sigh... No, it's not even an attack... just a reminder that you're saying a phrase that, if made by another, would make you pursue that person for making it...
------------------------------
I need to look at the votecount made by GIEFF... and look at voting motives... You all should do the same...
-----------------------------
Something else... wasn't BM all suspicious of jammer? Where did that go?

[alexhans]

@DDD: Your picking on my grammar upsets me far less than your purposely not caring about this game...

Between SF and you (and maybe some others) you're managing to make me go "fuck em all, let them lose" wich has never happened before...

If I eventually get there, full way, I will vote you or SF just to make sure you don't mind fuck us and succeed.

[alexhans]

And Alex, why the need to constantly rub in the town loss in mini 761?

I don't rub it onto you... I'm angered too about that loss... I just want to be conscious about it.
----------------------------------

Moving your vote is awesome. It gives you a stake in the arguments going on right now. tbh I don't really care what you think is best on this subject; you're deliberately distancing yourself from what's going on now.

HOW?! HOW?! How?! I've given my opinions... I won't join a SensFan waggon or a SpyreX waggon or a DDD waggon to be where the action is...

The last time you mentioned Battle Mage outside your catching-up post was the last time I asked you about Battle Mage about 500 posts ago (25 alex ISO posts). So, no, you're not referencing your Battle Mage vote.

FYI, BM means Battle Mage and FYI means for your information... Check again.

[alexhans]

ITT, alex misreps me like it's cool.

Alex IS misrepping the hell out of Vi.

When and how? is it scummy?

However, the overall feel of that whole explosion is fairly with one major caveat:

"fuck em all, let them lose"

Why would you say "them" and not some form of "I" if you are implying a town loss?

That stands out like a sore thumb.

how do you spell bullshit?

Why didn't I say I??? WTF?

I'm town... Should I say:

Fuck we? Let us lose?

Why would you say "them" and not some form of "I" if you are implying a town loss?

This is a good point.

Good point??? Yay!!! Keep pushing the limit of stupidity...

You'll soon have me there...

So you don't think that SpyreX's point is utter crap and even fabricated points? very well... err... who are you voting for, exactly?
-------------------
BM, Zach, what do you guys think about my statement?

Everyone else, what do you think about my statement and SpyreX's mild accusation?

[alexhans]

Alex address my question

I answer each question when I can... I was typing... the preview showed more posts... I posted and kept writing... don't tell me what or when to do things as if I was ignoring you...

thank you.

[alexhans]

by the way... I'm leaving soon and won't be near a computer until late at night... Can you handle that?

[alexhans]

EBWOP: also, it's probably not gonna be my defeat if BM survives and he is scum... so yeah, fuck THEM, let THEM lose is totally correct...

[alexhans]

yeah... Sens is CONFIRMED town....

How frigging hard is it to read what I post?

Them is ALL OF YOU... Some of you must be scum... well fuck the rest of you and let the rest of you lose... It WONT be my fault...

That was the meaning of it...

until SpyreX who had the shame of saying I misrepped commited the worst misrep ever... but, who cares... right...

[alexhans]

EBWOP: that (rolleyes smiley) means sarcasm...
---------------------------
SpyreX... Read the whole post where I say what I said... notice the state of mind I'm talking about and analyze if I would care a damn if I lose at that point.
---------------------------

If DDD and SF are both scum, alex, which is definitely possible, why would their behavior make you say "fuck the town, let it lose?" Had you considered this possibility?

Look, I've been suspicious of SF throughout this game... Nobody cared about it... I've been suspicious about BM too... Not many of you seem to care about it... DDD is practically impossible to read...

Yes! They can all be scum for all I know...

but... SF can be town... wich would make him one of the worst players I've seen (at least in this game). BM CAN be town... wich is hard to believe, REALLY hard... DDD can be whatever...

This is not about what COULD Be... this is about finding what it IS.
------------------------

Bye... I'm REALLY glad I've let you with something to discuss... enjoy...

And make people like BM, DDD, jammer and KMD give their opinions about it, please.

[alexhans]

Busy day... I'll read and post tomorrow...

[alexhans]

I'm here... I've caught up. I've written my notes and will post them as soon as I give them a decent format. I'm busy now but expect the post in 3 hs max.

[alexhans]

@SpyreX

:
I still stand by my statement.

Thats not what I was getting at though. I asked him A question about his statement and he said I was fabricating things...which isnt possible unless I just made up his statement.

Yeah. Trying to misrep my wording into a slip is a fabrication.

about SF's 2434... it's a pitty but useless. He should've replaced out a long time ago AND he still can.

There's no personal beef at all. If the game is getting under your skin take a break - there's absolutely no harm in that.

a break? did he say he was taking a break?

The BM day 1 gambit was his whole "Are you claiming cop" which turned into probably 10 pages of crazy when, as I said way back then, that when coupled with the response REEKS of town.

You realize I had just ONE vote on me when he asked me to claim? You keep refusing to acknowledge the possibility of being a scum tactic to look town. Fake scumhunting.
---------------------------

@GIEFF

:

I'm unvoting because that struck me as really genuine. I don't think Sens-scum would fake something like that to get out of trouble.

why doesn't he want to replace out?

Benmage and alex, relax on the cussing and emotions. Makes the game less fun, and makes the town less likely to win.

Friday was a complicated day. However, you unvoted SF for an AtE even though his attitude would normally cause a lynch and ask Benmage and me to NOT get emotional?

He named us scum because he said he is SO obviously town, that any good player who can't see that must be scum.


Do you really think he's obviously town?

An attack isn't always the best defense... you're misleading what Zach said.

I know. But what else can I do?

If it is true that Vi-scum means a 100% chance of a town-loss (which isn't necessarily true), then the only correct way to proceed with the game is assuming Vi-town.

What you've been doing until now. Not trusting anybody.
---------------------------

@Vi

:

After alex's outburst, I'm left to consider one of two options.
1) alex is not scum
2) The scum in this game can do some reasonably impressive AtEs.

We should really stop trusting inmediatly at any AtE that comes around. Mine was not intended as such. It started as a comment of frustration.

about Vi's vote, unvote... sigh...
---------------------------

@Zach

:

I'm noting that in Sens rant, he named Vi and Gieff as likely scum, and that both Vi and Gieff have now pulled their votes off of Sens.

noted.
---------------------------

@Jammer

:
2465: Nice example of a fluff post.

@Vi, yes I want to lynch DDD, his play in general do not strike me as town(following any easy wagon, careless, info>analysis. And

certain bits as scum like the KMD speedup vote

, obvious lurking with getting more active (in the past) if he gets suspected.

hold on... bolded... didn't SpyreX do the same thing?
---------------------------

@KMD

:
KMD: You've only holded gut against me. Same as jammer.

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

What do you exactly make of the votecount analysys? Day 1: I think BM is scum. I vote BM. Day 2: I rather lynch BCC (with the added bonus that BM wants the other lurker lynched)

Is this supposed to clear you or something?

huh? Don't avoid me with stupid questions. You say that VC analysys made me scummy. Why? How is my voting who I think is scum scummy?

2517: lame. Good to know what you think about it, though.

Before KMD posts more fluff I suggest him to READ carefully... Practically means practically.

NEW strike of brilliance theory: BM + KMD... that's why he keeps accusing me of being scum with BM and is probably mildly bussing him.
---------------------------

@Benmage

:

Most people are scummier than Vi. Everyone but you. Maybe Benmage.

I like how i've become accepted town by so many. I feel satisfied and accomplished. Like i did something right. Maybe i did something terribly wrong it became right .

Your massive AtE where you cried and screamed like a baby and then self-voted turned out better than you would've thought. Still, you're not obvtown. Just likely. So... earn it.
---------------------------

@BM:

2519: Why did BM unvote DDD?
---------------------------

@DDD:

2527: Interesting. Good.
---------------------------

@MOD

:

This is the last post you'll see from me in this game. The only exception would be if Yaw gets me to post to avoid prods or replacement, which I will then do.

Why would you want to avoid replacement of a game you're not playing?

Mod: This situation is absolutely ridiculous.

Also, what do you mean by:

Number to lynch will not change at deadline. (I'll put this at the end of vote counts from now on to remind you.)

---------------------------
TL,DR: I'm fine with a BM or an SF lynch unless he gets replaced.

[alexhans]

It was bullshit.

You claimed it was a slip and that I would've worded things differently if I was town.

preumed Slips are one of the most common spew that the mafia use in this games...

Read your own ISO from 105 to 108. You don't just say the "us" thing but also imply I had knowledge about DDD and SF's allignments.
---
on SensFan topic... Yeah, sure, the best thing we need a week from deadline is a player who said he would not post anymore with an allowed break.

The post that I liked from DDD was the one with the irony cake. Yes.

[alexhans]

KMD... keep at it.

alexhans - Scum. That was my gut read on him and my VC analysis only furthers my suspicion on Alex.

What do you exactly make of the votecount analysys? Day 1: I think BM is scum. I vote BM. Day 2: I rather lynch BCC (with the added bonus that BM wants the other lurker lynched)

Is this supposed to clear you or something?

huh? Don't avoid me with stupid questions. You say that VC analysys made me scummy. Why? How is my voting who I think is scum scummy?

I've done so many of these that I know where scum usually are on them. You happen to be where I'd expect scum to be. I think I said this before. At least one of you and BM is scum. I'm personally leaning BM, but not ruling you out regardless of his flip.

Still being incredibly vague.

Why are you voting Zach if you think one of BM or me is scum?

This is new? I was scum with Sens, Camn, and BM earlier, remember?]

That's what YOU guys joked about... Not me and I succesfully read Camn in the end. Depite her peculiar playstyle. (glo

[alexhans]

i'm here.

Vote: Jammer

Gut instincts and vague recollections FTW!

BM

Have you caught up?

[alexhans]

How do you feel about BM, SensFan?

[alexhans]

I'm having computer problems at work and am using someone else's computer when I can...

@alex, that question about spyrex voting kmd as well has been asked before. What did you like about the ironycake post?

t’s funny when I pick on the guy who doesn’t speak English as a first language for random spelling/grammatical/phrasing errors. It reeks of desperation when others pick up on similar mistakes and decide they actually posses some sort of meaning and use it as an argument.

This was really good.

What he said about SpyreX keeping his lynch viable without adding much was true. His comment about jammer was spot on (wich you agree, GIEFF, hence why you're asking him about SpyreX)

btw, Vi asking you if you're defending KMD is really ridiculous.
-----------------
jammer, selfhammering jokes are uncool.
-----------------

Actually on the subject of my irritation of all the lurking lately, I just noticed that Battle Mage has generally been quite active in this game up to about a few days ago and has suddenly seemed to have stopped posting in a regular basis.

So one wonders what has suddenly promoted this lack of participation?

Didn't He leave when his waggon looked big? Great way to let things cool off for a while... Remember that I once didn't post as much as I had been for some time and he told me that I was purposely lurking? It's HIS philosophy. lurk till they forget you...

And conveniently vote jammer... G_G

Anyone, please read BM's last 20-25 posts... all are quotes to make his posts look big and after them there's a witty or useless comment.

[alexhans]

Grammar and Spelling have never sounded so fun...

Welcome to...

Thesaurus Mafia!!!

[alexhans]

great... just great... now BM has only 3 votes... People keep leaving his waggon... I wonder why...

SpyreX did some scummy things but is much more active and logical than BM.

Lynch BM.

Tomorrow we'll see who we lynch.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: tomorrow I'll catch up what I missed today. Good night.

[alexhans]

oh, right... you were not voting for him... my bad...

[alexhans]

Dont lynch anyone other than BM.

I'll read and post soon.

[alexhans]

didn't you think I was town, BM?

didn't you?

why are you saying that if I'm wrong people should lynch me?

you've switched and wishy washed so much that your contribution has been much more anti town than mine... You called GIEFF scum. town, scum, town, town, maybe scum, town, scum... I've lost it....

You're not taking a stand? Does jammer qualify as a lurker?

Would you be willing to be lynched if jammer flips town?

[alexhans]

Battle Mage... I'm offering you the chance to redeem yourself.

Im willing to vote who you vote.

But if that person isnt scum. My vote goes to you tomorrow.

Remember that agreement?

GIEFF is out of the question. The rest are not.

[alexhans]

Why not just have a 2nd preference for lynch Alex?

Because Im afraid of being wrong and his calling me stupid annoys me.

I'm going to play a soccer match now but when I come back I triple promise that I will read everything I missed and have my say.

BM has been scummy the whole game. The only problem is that, many times, his AtE seems genuine and, on hindsight, I can't find a motivation for Cephir over Vi unless Vi is scum.

Yeah, I suck... I've tunneled and now Im unsure... Now that Im so close to get what I wanted...

This is Newbie 744 all over again but without the replacements.

btw.

Unvote

Im gonna do some ISO Reads too. I guess.

And for the record, BM, my logic was NOT bad... you've done enough scummy things in my opinion.

PS: Surprising, right? I'll eagerly await any accusations about an BM+Alexhans pairing...

---random desperate thoughts

GIEFF would fuck up my sanity... So I still don't support a GIEFF lynch.

SpyreX still somewhat strikes me as town...

Im changing too much, right now...

this game has gone on too long.

I'm completely wifomed...

screw you all...

anyway... I keep thinking about pairs... and nothings makes sense.

I don't know...

jammer might be a good lynch.

bye.

[alexhans]

Caught up. Back from paddle today. physically very tired. MEntally not in a mood to get worked up over this game.

MOD: sorry about the small text... I thought it was not against the rules because it was readable.

I'm surprised no one has commented in my sudden unvote of BM... Why is that?

KMD: why is zach a good lynch?

unvote

vote GIEFF

V/LA until monday

Then there's Alexhans who has unvoted Battle Mage after calling him scum all day with the demeanor that he's no longer sure Battle Mage is scum... again, WTF?

glad you noticed. Yes. I was NEVER sure. I was very confident. Wich Im not right now.

As for the reasons. Beside his AtE. Something has been bugging me for a while. Why would BM go for Cephir town with such intensity unless he was scum with Vi. Why would he go to the spotlight so much.

And I remembered this: "Never Attribute To Malice That Which Can Be Adequately Explained By Stupidity." Here, I should change stupidity with "what I see as a stupid way to play".

Cosmic question: Why do you (Zachrulez) only seem to show up when something dramatic happens, and then disappear for a while again?

This^^

This is the kind of things that make me change so much...

I've been thinking that Zach and GIEFF were the most rational. But suddenly I think theyre good scum.

I'm willing to wager that at most one of the scum in this game has been a leading wagon for over 200 posts, and that more specifically at least two of the scum is between {alexhans, GIEFF, Zachrulez, Kmd4390, DDD, SpyreX, jammer}.

2 in 7? lame... Add Vi there too...

Vote jammer

, why? I don't like a SpyreX lynch. I'm not sure of a BM lynch anymore and gut.

when is the deadline? What time?

It will be an interesting thing when the game ends and we see who scum really are and who just contributed to town's demise.

And, seriously, no one other than Zach noted my Battle Mage unvote?

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Benmage. You expressed desire to lynch jammer. Then hop on.

[alexhans]

Alex, you see nothing wrong with Spyrex putting KMD at L-1 immediately after complaining that DDD hopped on the wagon?

GIEFF... I'm tired of being asked a question more than once when I've already said what I thought about it and given the answer again... Yes. It WAS scummy. And BM's inconsistency is scummy too. And everything is this game is crappy or scummy. If you have any doubts. Search in my ISO. If you have NEW doubts. Ask me.

If every player had played from the beginning... But now we are just giving out playstyle cards to free people from lynches...

[alexhans]

Benmage expressed willingness to vote jammer. As BM... so we could easily move jammer to L-3. GIEFF has said that jammer did a lot of scummy things so he shouldn't have a problem either... and that would be L-2

[alexhans]

@Alex,

6 to lynch, even at deadline (Sunday, August 30 at midnight Eastern Time)

I think that is one day more then the 12 hours you are speaking of, vi?

Alex, you think DDD and spyrex are more likely town then I am?

How is DDD town?

1) Yes.

2) Did i say he was town? How are you town?

[alexhans]

blah blah blah I'd vote Alex but excuses excuses.

I really don't care about your dislike.

Vote me if you think Im scum... Otherwise... vote who you think is scum.

Remember that place we talked about? You're pushing it more and more...

You think all the reasons you've given are better??

You guys have wishy washed and "applied pressure", etc, etc...

And "looked active" and "aggressive"...

wow... big deal...

How confident are you that SpyreX is scum?

And screw you... "the image that I was attempting"????

That's MILD ACCUSING... talking as if Im scum...

FoS Zach

yeah... deal with it.

[alexhans]

2) Did i say he was town? How are you town?

Well no you did not say it no, with elimination and I was looking at spyrex at town, I wondered how you looked at DDD as more town as me.

Or better to say, how am I more scummy then DDD?

I am town becouse I do not know how the mafia role-PM looks like.

I don't know... I guess It's gut + trusting Benmage + You've laid back much more than mr.Teller or penn or whatever that guy's avatar is supposed to be... I've played with him and his anti-town playstyle might be excused by it.

If I went for anti town. I'd be voting SensFan, then DDD, then BM, etc, etc...

yeah... at this point, for me, it's all pure wifom because I can not rely on scumtells anymore or I would have to lynch BM but I'm finally conceding to his AtE's. The same I did with Benmage. So, yeah, I'm going by gut. Mostly.

And if some of you say that's not reason enough... Well... Your Cephir vote was unreasoned too.

And Mastin's lynched wasn't the best either... so...

Yeah... we lynch jammer... tomorrow we see.

[alexhans]

2775 is fascinating. I'm really not getting the same feel from Alex as I did from the last game I played from him.

Yeah. Last game I was playing at this point. In this game... I've read so many ridiculous posts that my will to spew all this "logical conclusions", "blah blah", has been drained... GIEFF has accused everyone in the game in turn. If I went for my normal parameters... I should be voting him too... For going after me and Camn with fake (IMO) logic. Then others, etc, etc. There's so many people to vote...

The difference between you and me is that Im tired of this same old thing we are doing... discussing nothing and just running around in circles of pure WIFOM and vote hopping...

Im tired. Very tired.

Why dont we all VOTE and KEEP the vote there and be done with it. THE END. If you don't like my vote on jammer and think I'm scum vote me... But don't annoy me with supposed logic and things that should make sense because we know that if everything was like it was supposed to be we would've caught scum by now and lurkers wouldn't have been able to do it without being replaced.

And Alex, I can deal with an FOS. Honestly you probably have more reasons to vote for me at this point than you do for Jammer. (Not that I necessarily agree with any of them.)

Do you think I should vote you over jammer and BM? or just over jammer?

[alexhans]

fair enough. I'm keeping my vote too.

And, here's a WIFOM question for you Zach.

Why does my unvote BM, vote jammer bothers you?

What would I gain for voting my scumpartner (and pushing) all game and then unvoting when people were HOPPING OFF his waggon? there was no need to secure his safety or whatever...

[alexhans]

back from paintball... why is GIEFF being lynched? Why does Benmage vote SpyreX instead of jammer? KMD... we can change the outcome of this vote... Do we prefer SpyreX or GIEFF? I think SpyreX is a better lynch than GIEFF.

So, for now....

unvote, Vote SpyreX

.

Also, How many hours from now to deadline?

[alexhans]

Zach.... and???

GIEFF has been my biggest town read... so? (If I say that you might be good scum doesn't mean that I have to vote you. It's just a fear. I won't vote my biggest town read up till now.)

SpyreX has done some scummy things but my overall feeling was that he was town too... SO, I prefer it.

What is that post supposed to show?

[alexhans]

I'm eating... but playing chicken with the bandwaggons against a nolynch seems fun...

And Im thinking...

[alexhans]

mmm... Im facing the same Z

e

ch dilemma...

let me think...

[alexhans]

"¿Me explica por favor?" it's "can you explain me, please?"
"Explicame" is imperative. "Explain me".

GIEFF... if we lynched you and you came up town... who would you choose to lynch next if you could decide?

[alexhans]

meh... you're going to make me read all this before going to sleep?

that's WIFOM GIEFF... bad one...

[alexhans]

My problem lies in the fact that it seems I've trusted every AtE that appears.

SensFan AtEd with his "mafia is making me sick but I wont replace out but I'll stop posting"
Benmage AtEd... with his "you're all idiots for voting me for writing at night, look, I vote meself."
Battle Mage AtEd to the max...
SpyreX also made some AtEs.
Some consider I did it too even it was not intentional.

That's 5 out of 10 players who might be "clearer" for expressing or faking to express emotions...

Camn, GIEFF did it too...

on the other hand, DDD, jammer and Zach seem like ice blocks.

KMD has been missing for a while... And I mean content missing. I don't recall any relevant stuff from him in a while.

I feel like shoving every AtE in my ass and vote whoever played awful.

1) Debonair Danny DiPietro
2) Kmd4390
3) jammer
4) SensFan
5) alexhans
6) Benmage
7) Zachrulez
8) Battle Mage
9) SpyreX

Benmage... Why did you say:

Down for a DDD,KmD, Jammer, or ALex lynch.

if you then voted for Zach?

Are you still down for a jammer lynch?

Also, you don't seem to give reasons as to why you would be down for an Alex or KMD lynch...

Is this game going to be like that? No reasons for the votes?

btw, I'll go the same way as yesterday.

Vote Jammer

SensFan and Benmage. Stop fighting. We don't care.

the site doesnt like me doing this, but

Vote: Zach

BM

Please, stop trying to purposely hurt this game by being a rebel... Don't come just to post a vote when you know it's gonna suck for everyone. You keep playing anti-town to the max and keep making me want to vote you. If this was a common game... I would've lynched you already, no matter what. It's worst than trying to read Zwets because you're not dumb even though you like to act like it sometimes...

Conclusion: Let's stop fucking around.

To investigate: Why the hell people lynched GIEFF? Why over SpyreX?

[alexhans]

Zach... I made up my mind yesterday.

[alexhans]

oh... that's the list of the alive players... I had written SpyreX twice and thought there were 10 players (didn't really look at Yaw's post until later) and was about to ask if anyone would consider a nolynch to narrow down the odds.

[alexhans]

Spyrex...

Alex's nolynch business really bothers me because on that off-chance it is 4 left that is a win and, ultimately, a mage would be dead and we'd be where we are now.

I was just explaining that IF WE WERE 10 I would suggest a nolynch because IT WOULDNT MAKE US LOSE. We are 9! If there's 4 scum and Zach isn't scum right now... we've probably lost unless you 2 in his waggon are scum and the rest have not checked the VC yet.

Dont you want to discuss?

You quickly hop on the waggon driving it to L-2 without much discussion?

[alexhans]

SensFan... You tell me one more time what to do and I'll test if your AtEs are genuine.

is KMD still V/LA or something?

DDD: What's your opinion on all this?

[alexhans]

I've been away for the weeekend (+ Monday) and I need to catch up but the internet is sucking right now so I'll probably try to read this at college.

Doing Ctrl-F on my name for this page...

KMD... since when have I been pretty town to you?

Hell... I'll comment on this last page... (I won't dare to try and view or quote others because the delay kills me)

Well you had said that you were thinking GIEFF was scum even though he was logical and that you didn't want a Spy lynch, so it's a pretty major inconsistancy.

Bull. I NEVER, EVER said GIEFF was scum. DONT YOU READ? ARGH....

2 minutes in this game and I already read blatant lies...

GIEFF was my biggest town read. I only said once that I was afraid that GIEFF & could be smart scum. But it was just an expression of uncertainty.

Seems awfully conveninent that you hop on the Zach waggon right now... I don't recall, How long have you been after Zach?

#2983 should precipitate you to vote jammer instead of chaining lynches so much...

^You sound so much like Jammer's scumbuddy in that post. Just sayin'.

^^ And this is what scum says when they want to throw someone else under the bus...

Oh... and seeing a quote from BM that proposes me to lynch who he wants... No DICE... He got his GIEFF mislynch already.

[alexhans]

I've been away for the weeekend (+ Monday) and I need to catch up but the internet is sucking right now so I'll probably try to read this at college.

Doing Ctrl-F on my name for this page...

KMD... since when have I been pretty town to you?

Hell... I'll comment on this last page... (I won't dare to try and view or quote others because the delay kills me)

Well you had said that you were thinking GIEFF was scum even though he was logical and that you didn't want a Spy lynch, so it's a pretty major inconsistancy.

Bull. I NEVER, EVER said GIEFF was scum. DONT YOU READ? ARGH....

2 minutes in this game and I already read blatant lies...

GIEFF was my biggest town read. I only said once that I was afraid that GIEFF & could be smart scum. But it was just an expression of uncertainty.

Seems awfully conveninent that you hop on the Zach waggon right now... I don't recall, How long have you been after Zach?

#2983 should precipitate you to vote jammer instead of chaining lynches so much...

^You sound so much like Jammer's scumbuddy in that post. Just sayin'.

^^ And this is what scum says when they want to throw someone else under the bus...

Oh... and seeing a quote from BM that proposes me to lynch who he wants... No DICE... He got his GIEFF mislynch already.

[alexhans]

crap... see what happens when your browser is working so slow that it throws out an error and you hit submit again after 40 minutes?