Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[Kmd4390]

/confirm

[Kmd4390]

Nominate Zwet

I've seen about half of the seasons I think.

[Kmd4390]

4 completely reasonless votes so far, 5 if you include Mufasa's vote. Someone is up to no good and, in my opinion, the early indicators are not pointing at Mufasa.

Not posting a reason isn't the same as not having one.

If I were HoH, I'd nominate Saber and Paltry

[Kmd4390]

Have you another idea on how to choose?

Same as in any mafia game, good old fashioned scum hunting. I don't know about you, but I would prefer a floater get the first HoH as opposed to a member of one of the scum teams. I would be hopeful that our scum hunting gives the HoH some good info as to who they should nominate for eviction and give the rest of us good info as to where we should place our votes on their nominated evictees.

Hmm... So, instead of scumhunting we should go with townhunting? Sounds interesting. Right now, I'm getting the most town vibes from you, so...

Nominate: SlySly

Pretty sure he never said that. In fact, I'm pretty sure he said we should scumhunt like any other game.

If I were HoH, I'd nominate Saber and Paltry

Why nominate these people in particular?

Because along with Snowbunny, you are my top suspects right now. I want to try to nominate scum if I'm HOH.

Does that mean there is a reason behind your vote for zwet?

Yep. Who the HOH chooses to (or not to) nominate can give us some info on them. A lot of people seem to have trouble reading Zwet, so why not give him first stab at HOH?

--------------

Sens, I don't know the list system you are talking about.

-------------

HoH applicationform
1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?
Answer: Not really. Meh, maybe it's better for an experienced player to get it because that's who probably has the best chance of hitting scum. But if a poor player makes decisions that make them obvscum, that's just as good for town.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)
Answer: It's the HOH's choice. If they want to be guided, fine. I personally wouldn't let everyone else tell me who to nominate. I'd listen to suggestions, but that doesn't mean I'd follow them.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?
Answer:If I'm suspicious enough of a player, sure. But I'd make sure the pawn is someone who no one seems to suspect.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___
Answer: Saber and Paltry right now. Snow could make my list too.

I just don't want to see this turn into Sen's tree stump game, All talk and no direction.

I'll scumhunt if needed, but I much rather get the ball rolling now, it just makes it easier is all.

This is a scummy post. "Hey, let's not scumhunt. Let's not talk about who is scum. Let's all direct each other with no reasoning at all".

What am I really going to findout 1 page into Day 1? I think your over questioining, imo.

You won't find anything. If you don't look at least.

I don't want HoH

Why?

---------------

Saber is right. Grandi and Dis aren't scum together.

Note: I don't care that this appeared in other games.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry,

-you started the game with non-game conversation.
-You nom'd Sly simply for asking questions.
-I didn't like your question to Saber about "semi-random".
-Your HOH application seems to overly stress that we need a town HOH. It seems obvious enough and shouldn't have to be forced in there like that. The question had nothing to do with alignment. Only experience and skill.
-I don't like that you can't give two suspects yet, but are confident enough that Sly is town that you are willing to nominate him. If this were a normal game, I'd like to know who you'd be voting right now.
-You seem too quick to discount Grandi and DisCode having to be on opposing factions (or both town). But the logic is there.

Though you do have these town points:
-I like most of your HOH application. I tend to agree with a lot of what you said.
-You are right to question Grandi about posting his own application

[Kmd4390]

if the HoH comes up with "unfavorable nominations" it casts suspicion on him or her, which is probably not what they want...

If doing what I think will get scum lynched makes me look scummy, I'll do it anyway.

[Kmd4390]

Blah. TRUE! It's just the outcome that could do not so good stuff. eh...

How's this different from any other game's lynch? Playing conservatively won't get us anywhere.

I can appreciate what you are saying here, but there is no lynching in this game. If something you did as HoH is unacceptable, you will have to be put on the block by a later HoH and evicted by everyone else. That creates somewhat of a safety cushion in this game for rogue players, which, imo, makes it easier for scum to go against town wishes as HoH. It is not as simple as, you screwed up and we are going to lynch you for it. If you aren't put on the block for your scummy actions, you won't be lynched for them like in a regular game of mafia.

Meh. Lynching/Evicting... Same thing.

There's no "saftey cushion". Someone will be evicted every day just like someone is lynched every day in any other game. If someone is scummy, they are more likely to be evicted. The only difference is the mechanics. We will still be evicting the same players who we'd normally lynch for the most part.

----------

Paltry,

"friendly conversation" isn't null. It's a distraction from the game and is anti-town at best.

You didn't seem to be "questioning" Saber. More just commenting. You didn't really do much with it.

Yeah, that's the thing. You don't feel ready to call anyone scum, but at the same time you are ready to call Sly town and hand him HOH. Yet you can't even name the two scummiest players in the game in your opinion. I'd be satisfied just to hear one name from you because the only stance you've taken is "SlySly for HOH!".

If Mufasa and Whoot were scum together, I don't think they'd have been replaced in their situation. Nobody even knew about the situation until after the fact, so it wasn't an issue if they were scumbuddies.

--------------

Saber (Post 123), stop being retarded and play.

-------------

DisCode, yes, I want scum gone. But at the same time, I'd like to take a look at our HOH. See who they nominate. Who they connect themselves to or don't. I also think that, if town, Zwet can catch a scum. I'm confident in his ability as far as scumhunting.

It doesn't matter when they were posted. Discussion about the theme generally will drag out, so it's anti-town even if it's during confirmations.

My issue is more the fact that he can be so confident in a player being town, yet is uncomfortable naming even one scum. I didn't point it out earlier because I didn't see it. He asked why he was scummy, so I looked.

The "semi random" thing could have been a lot more than he let it be. He kind of dropped a comment and left it at that instead of actively questioning. It didn't seem to be enough of an issue after he pointed it out.

Why Paltry for HOH?

-------------

So Finch takes a stance, gets called on it, and backs off. Noted.

-------------

Sly, is Sens individually scummy or just connected to Saber? Could the fact that they know each other IRL have anything to do with the connection you are seeing?

[Kmd4390]

Prodded. Need to catch up.

[Kmd4390]

Haven't caught up yet, but Paltry and Finch are the best choices from what I've seen.

[Kmd4390]

Haven't caught up yet, but Paltry and Finch are the best choices from what I've seen.

Screw you, why not me?

Because I think you're dumb, not necessarily scum.

I want everyone to give me the two people they would like me to put up.

Paltry and Finch. Let me catch up before committing to that though.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry Post 145-
Ok, you've been "focused" as in posting. But up to the point of the post I am responding to, you haven't really done any scumhunting.

About Saber, you pretty much dropped one comment and left it at that. You didn't continue with it at all. And that amounts to ALL of your scumhunting up to that point.

Ok, if Mufasa and Whoot were banned site-wide, that changes things. I didn't know that.

-------------

Sly's 146-
The eviction is the equivelent of a lynch. It's just done by different mechanics. More times than not, the player being evicted will be one of the players who is most widely seen as scummy.

--------------

Sly's 148-
In this game, Zwet hasn't show his ability to find scum. Neither has anyone else. Nobody has flipped yet.

--------------

Paltry 172-
I actually agree.

--------------

Paltry 174-

I'd nominate Saber: He has been admittedly scummy

Why use the word "admittedly" there?

-------------

Sly 193-
I wasn't unwilling to point out my reasons for choosing Zwet. I pointed them out pretty clearly.

-----------

Sly 200-
At the time that I posted that, I thought it was pretty clear that Saber and Paltry were my top choices, but I was also watching Snow.

------------

Llama 205-
I'd have picked Sly over Sens. Why Sens has votes for HOH is beyond me, so Sly was obviously a better choice.

-----------

Finch's 208, while not a great post, shows a town thought process. Hmm.

(The arguement on Llama is a bad one, but one I think town would make)

----------

Sly 215-

Why do you think I've stated a "core choice"?

----------

Sir 218-

Don't assume. I'd prefer a Paltry eviction to a Saber one.

---------

Hmm. Sly's 240 has an interesting way of avoiding the points Sens makes.

---------

Sly 296-

Good because I don't think Finch is one of the best choices anymore. Here's a preference list. Best choices at top, worst at bottom:
PaltryExcuse- Reasons given plenty. Just read my post history.
saberwolf - Reasons given plenty. Just read my post history.
animorpherv1- Can't shake a gut feeling. Seems to have been ignored so far.
Grandi- Lurker. Needs to contribute. Also gave the HOH application without submitting his own.
DisCode -Lurker. Needs to contribute.
zwetschenwasser - Pretty null read. Hasn't really done a thing.
snow_bunny -Didn't like some early posts. Recent posts seem more natural.
Mr Finch - Didn't like some early posts. The post in response to Llama seemed town.
Crazy -Seems pretty town. One case where I'm actually not listening to my gut, which says scum.
Sironigous -Seems pretty town.
SensFan -Seems very town. I disagree with his HOH method, but don't think he's scum for it.
Llamafluff- Seems very town. I agree with most of what he's done so far.
Kmd4390 -Don't nom me.

Obviously, the top two on my list, Paltry and Saber, would be my ideal noms.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, if Mufasa and Whoot were banned site-wide, that changes things. I didn't know that.

In what way?

If they were banned, they are unable to play regardless of anything related to this game. That makes them being replaced a complete null tell.

Your support of zwet is very suspicious. He has done

nothing

in this game but you seem very willing to stick your neck out for him.

I don't support anything he's done in this game, because, well, he hasn't done anything. I wanted to see him as HOH to make him do something and get a read on who he connects himself to and whatever other information we could take from his nominations.

At least Sens offered up PJ's list method. Why zwet had a vote for HoH is far beyond me, he offered nothing.

We were going to get absolutely no information at all from Sens' nominations because he was going to have the town do everything for him. Zwet would have been, by far, a better choice than Sens for HOH.

Glad to see you agree on him doing nothing, now, again please, why were you supporting him so strongly as HoH?

I agreed with that from the very beginning. That's why I wanted to put him in a position where he has to take a stance.

On Kmd's case

Twice you've agreed with what I've said (my HoH application and Post 172 where I question why SensFan has support) and yet you find me scummy.

If scum ONLY said things I disagree with all the time, this game would be a lot easier.

I'll admit that my scumhunting hasn't been as aggressive as others, but I don't think it is as negligible as you're making it out to be.
1) I did question Saber, however, I I could've pursued him on it further.

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying.

2) I did question the disappeared Grandi why he didn't answer his own HoH application questions.

Fair enough.

3) When Finch gives no reason for nomming SensFan, I question him on it, prompting him to switch his nomination.

No way! You questioned someone for doing something with no reasons! You MUST be town now!

4) One of two posts you agree with, is me commenting on why people were pushing for a SensFan HoH.

And?

What is weird is that you nominated Zwet without giving ANY reasons, and you question my nom of Sly because I gave a reason early on. It got stronger as I saw him scum hunt, hence why it didn't change late in the day.

No, I gave a reason. I just waited until asked to bring more attention to the idea of a Zwet-HOH, but that didn't work. And I had no problem with your Sly-nom. It was just the fact that you couldn't name any suspects at the time you were so strongly supporting Sly. Seems like you are being careful not to step on any toes.

I'd nominate Saber: He has been admittedly scummy

Why use the word "admittedly" there?

Why not?

Seems like you are being forced to admit something that you'd rather not admit to.

@kmd:

Yup. Being ignored in this game (to a point) seems like a good idea. It keeps you off the radar and less likley to be up for elimination.

This is a terrible way to think.

[Kmd4390]

You're misreading the word 'admittedly'.

Try looking at it as if it read: "I'd nominate Saber: He has been scummy by his own admission". It makes a whole lot more sense. Especially given's saber's recent decision to ruin games (leading to him being banned from joining games, might I add).

Ok, that makes more sense.

-----------------

Paltry 345,

I agree with you about Animorph. He's pretty high on my list.

I agree about Grandi. He's been replaced though.

I agree about Zwet. To answer your question, if he was HOH he would have no choice but to nominate two people. The two people the HOH chooses can tell us a lot about an HOH. The fact that Zwet offers nothing but short baseless posts is even more reason for us to get information on him any way we can.

Sir is mostly a gut town feeling.

Finch's post showed a town thought process that is hard to fake. Then again, I used this logic once recently in another game and it turned out to be my traitor scumbuddy.

Snow seems to be playing how she normally does. She's one of the players I have the hardest time reading though.

Why does KMD think I would take a position if I were nominated? Wouldn't that do absolutely nothing?

If you were nominated for HOH, you'd HAVE TO put up two players for eviction. Sly is asking for two names from you now and you haven't given any. Change that ASAP.

--------------

Sly, I'm not even sure what to say about your suspicion on me. I've explained why I wanted Zwet as HOH. The rest of your case seems to be that I played well as scum in Mirth's game.

[Kmd4390]

So there's really no way to defend against Sly's case.

-Point A) Wanted Zwet HOH
-Defense A) Informational HOH choice
-Counter A) Acknowledges defense, but says it makes no sense.

-Point B) Meta
-Defense B) Really can't defend.

-Point C) Llama wanted me as HOH
-Defense C) Really can't defend.

There's not much I can say about this...

[Kmd4390]

Considering his play in this game so far, do you really still think it would be in the town's best interest to have zwet deciding who is going to be on the block?

Yes.

Let's hypothesize for a second:
1. zwet-scum is HoH and puts up 2 townies for eviction that everyone disagrees with.
2. A townie gets lynched and unknowingly gives HoH to a seemingly town player that is actually zwet-scum's scumbuddy.

1. This helps town by making Zwet obvscum and evicted at first opportunity.
2. How is this different from the evictee picking a scum HOH in any other scenario?

How would zwet-scum be made to pay for his obvscum actions in this scenario?

Easy. The next HOH after Zwet's buddy nominates Zwet and his now obvscum buddy. Town has identified two scum in your hypothetical scenario. Doesn't sound so disasterous to me. Best part is, you just showed how a Zwet-HOH can net us two scum if Zwet is scum.

In my opinion, you are playing very similarly to the way you played in Mirth's game. You said it best when you said...

I try to make my scum game as close to my town game as possible. I guess I did a good job of that in Mirth's.

It isn't that Llama wanted you as HoH, it's that his reasoning for wanting you in over me was bogus.

Fair enough, but unless Llama flips scum first, how is that a point against me?

[Kmd4390]

I'm not supporting Zwet at all. I would have picked him as the first HOH, but after that, I have done nothing in his favor. Hell, I haven't even called him town and you make it out like I have this massive town read on him. I don't.

About your scenario, If two players who are either town or in a specific scum group have to die to take out two scumbuddies, I don't mind the sacrafice.

Yeah, once again assuming that zwet 2nd scum buddy didn't end up in power right after that somehow. I am finding it very hard to believe the persistence you are demonstrating to keep the rose colored glasses on in this game!

You seem to think we will never have a town HOH.

Llama's persistence to defend you over me and to perpetually attempt to make difference in our stated stances, when our stated opinions were basically the same, show connection to you the same way your perpetual defense of zwet, to me, illustrates your connection to him.

Again, unless Llama is scum, how is this a point against me?

[Kmd4390]

Sly: what happens to your views on sens and kmd if zwet was voted off first and flipped town?

what happens if only one of the three flips scum, and the other town, how does that affect the third's alignment in your mind?

^This is the problem with Sly's suspicions. Too many of them rely too much on other suspicions being accurate.

[Kmd4390]

You seem to think that everything is going to work out perfect for the town every step of the way and that making scum acting players pay for their actions is going to be as easy as it is in any old regular game of mafia. I don't see it that way.

The first part about everything being perfect, no. The part about making scummy players pay, yes. It's not always easy, but it can be done. The only way seemingly protown players are evicted is if the HOH nominates them which puts a target on the HOH's back. Just sayin'.

If Llama is scum, the connection I sense is a point against you. Obviously if Llama flips town, that wouldn't be a point against you and I would have to reevaluate my position.

Thanks for proving my point I guess?

The problem with your position is that it relies too much on everything working out perfectly every step of the way. I can only see scum trying to convince the town that it will work out so well.

No, my position of pushing scummy players as scummy doesn't rely on anything. It's just how mafia works.

I actually don't find Sens' request for replacement scummy. More like a childish attitude, but that's all. Why, I have found myself in that exact position in the past (though I never requested a replacement), and I can sort of understand that.

^This. I've seen Sens do this as town (Yaw's large normal) and scum (my Twilight game). Honestly, this is more similar to what he did as scum, but in Yaw's game, he did do something like this as town.

Reminder to the HOH. Looking for a replacement for Sens

Please post in bold your nomination by Dec 7th 4:40pm PST

Once you place 2 nominee's in bold you can not change your mind.

Thank you.

Oh crap. Time snuck up on me...

1.

nominate: kmd

2.

nominate: Sens

zwet and saber are easy enough targets for the next HoH. kmd is the person I feel is the craftiest scum, so I want to put him up against someone that I feel gives him the best shot at being evicted.

Please explain one thing to me:
kmd is scum because of his relationship to zwet. Therefore zwet and kmd are scum.
Llama and kmd have a connection, making Llama scum.
kmd attacks me, I show an interest in using the veto on him: I am scum.
That's 4 scum on one team.

This is my issue with Sly. The points against me rely on other people being scum. If Zwet, Llama, and Paltry are town, the only point Sly has is that I play well as scum which is a BS point and makes me more of a policy lynch than anything.

--------------------------

Who does everyone want as the next HOH? I'm not going to just take who everyone says, but I want input. I'm leaning Snow-Bunny.

[Kmd4390]

Why me, Kmd?

Bit busy now, will post something useful later, when I have time.

Because I have no idea who you'd nominate, so it would force you to either pick two players or let the town guide you. Either way, it helps town get a read on you.

[Kmd4390]

I'm surprised and angered I wasn't chosen.

Would you prefer to evict Sens or myself?
Would you like Paltry to use the veto?
If so, on who, and who would you like nominated instead?
Who do you want to be the next HOH?

[Kmd4390]

Sly, who do you want to be the next HOH if I'm evicted?

[Kmd4390]

I'm surprised and angered I wasn't chosen.

A) You don't show up
B) Your scummy
C) You only post 1 sentence

Elaborate on B please. I'd like to see the case because I don't really have a read on Zwet at all.

[Kmd4390]

Also, Animorph and Llama, who would you choose as the next HOH?

[Kmd4390]

Also, Animorph and Llama, who would you choose as the next HOH?

DC or Crazy assuming I cant pick myself

Why DisCode?

[Kmd4390]

What the hell is up with a kmd nom?

That will seriously give zero information to town since almost everyone will policy anti-vote kmd.

I fully support a PoV use just to obtain information from day one. (with a zwet/ani replacement)

I'm convinced that either of my choices will flip scum, though I would prefer the kmd eviction. Since you think Sens will be voted out over kmd in a policy fashion, I think it is highly scummy for you to be pushing to use up one of the 2 POV's available to the town in this game, also in a policy fashion.

Ok, you keep calling Llama scummy and use that as a reason why I'm scummy. Yet you said earlier that the only point against Llama is his support for me as HOH. What is your current stance on Llama and why?

[Kmd4390]

I've vetoed Kmd. It isn't official until farside announces it, but who is the replacement nom?

Sly, I'd like your thoughts on DisCode and why or why not he'd be a good replacement nomination.

[Kmd4390]

Well, Llama did just add another point of scuminess to my list by lobbying to waste the POV on you when it is pretty clear you aren't going to be voted out. With that said, it appears Paltry added a point of scuminess to my list by actually wasting the POV on you when it is pretty clear you weren't going to be voted out. My stance now is that one of those 2 is your scumbuddy, if not both.

If Llama and Paltry both flip town, am I still scum?

1. connection to zwet / wanting zwet as HoH
2. connection to Llama
3. I felt his targeting of you was baseless and it appeared to be scum trying to cast suspicion on a pro-town player. Now it seems possible that it was distancing the entire time.
4. craftily trying to fly under the radar as I have seen him do before. He and anyone else can call this bs, but I have seen it firsthand before and his play in this game is reminding me heavily of what I have seen before.

I'm ignoring 1 and 2 for obvious reasons.

3. So you disagree with my early suspicion and that makes me scum?
4. No. I HATE to be under the radar. I like to be in control regardless of alignment.

I for one, was looking forward to at least getting to ask questions of kmd to get a little better view on him.

Why do I have to be nominated for you to ask questions?

[Kmd4390]

If Llama and Paltry both flip town, am I still scum?

If you are scum, no matter who flips what, you are still scum.

But you are basing this on connections to other players. If those players are town, your suspicion against me is baseless. The only point you have on me that doesn't rely on another player's flip is that I am a good scum player. Nominating me on that alone is a policy nomination. Would you propose a policy lynch on me in a normal game?

[Kmd4390]

But you are basing this on connections to other players. If those players are town, your suspicion against me is baseless. The only point you have on me that doesn't rely on another player's flip is that I am a good scum player. Nominating me on that alone is a policy nomination. Would you propose a policy lynch on me in a normal game?

My nominating you was based on a combination of things. In a regular game of mafia, I am not 100% opposed to policy lynches, so if the situation was right for a policy lynch, yes I would.

You aren't getting it. Your "combination of things" is this:
-connections to players who you view as scummy (wouldn't it be better to get their flip before nominating me on a connection to them?)
-meta based policy (I don't see how this even fits)

[Kmd4390]

I had to sign up for every single game in the sign up thread that was currently open, and not flake from any of them. If I manged to not flake, and finish every game, I win and I get to change his avatar for 2 months. If I lose, he changes mine for two months. Luckily, Ani left lots of loopholes, so I've campaigned for my lynch in every game I'm in that I signed up for.

Hope that doesn't change things with us hewitt

Wow, you're a dick. Ruining games for an avatar bet. I don't want my creation of avatar beta turning into something like that...

Back on topic saberwolf you're not playing with SensFan anymore so don't ever refer to my spot as SensFan again. I know that's a little hypocritical since I just compared another player to him in a game we're both in but I'd prefer if everything to do with him was past tense.

*Shrug*

When you replace a player, you take responsibility for any tells that player gave off. I'm still leaning slightly town on you and some of that comes from Sens. That's just the proper way to look at the game.

Why me, Kmd?

Bit busy now, will post something useful later, when I have time.

Because I have no idea who you'd nominate, so it would force you to either pick two players or let the town guide you. Either way, it helps town get a read on you.

Oh, I see. Don't worry, if I must put my effort on it, I will.

Hypothetically, who would you nominate right now if you had to choose two players?

Still awaiting answer from kmd on this...

Llama is on the hotseat. What do you think of the POV being wasted on you when you had no votes on you? Think that decision was a little on the rushed side? If yes, what does that say to you?

If Hewitt is town and your replacement nominee is scum and is evicted, the veto wasn't wasted.

I would have gotten more of a reaction from everyone before actually using it, but I don't have a problem with the fact that he used it. The no votes thing is BS. Paltry, if I'm remembering correctly, didn't want to vote Sens. So it makes sense to want a new player on the block.

nominate:DisCode

Choose carefully, your votes can't be undone.

Vote DisCode

I really like this choice.

He was NOT LURKING. Look at his history. A few good posts, a gap untill a 'will catchup' post, then nothing. So thats not lurking, thats flaking, which is a null tell.

what was good about his posts?

[Kmd4390]

Sly, so we agree that the veto being used quickly was probably wrong, correct? Because I thought your issue was the fact that it was used. If it was the speed of it, I can see that. Although that seems more like a playstyle thing than a scumtell.

Snow, thanks for the answer.

Hewitt, I find the use of the word "pawn" weird next to the names you list.

Sly, how the hell have you "saved Hewitt's neck"? You nominated him (well..Sens) for eviction.

[Kmd4390]

I don't consider a nomination a pawn if there is a reasonable chance that they will be evicted. Any of your "pawns" could easily be evicted against Sly.

[Kmd4390]

Non-participation has someone on the block right now based on the reasoning of majority suggestion

What majority suggestion?

------------

Ok, I get what you are saying about the veto.

[Kmd4390]

Non-participation has someone on the block right now based on the reasoning of majority suggestion

What majority suggestion?

Replacement suggestions and reasoning so far:

Llama(1)

- SlySly (tunneling, lobby for waste of POV, ignoring questions)

zwet(2)

- Mr. finch (non-participation, useless), animo (non-participation, useless)

saber(1)

- hewitt (policy lynch, suspects won't be helpful)

snow_bunny(1)

- saber (no reason given)

animo(2)

- Llama (crap he pulled), Crazy (ani voted Sens due to Sens replacement request)

siroginous(1)

- pablito (saying a bunch of nothing, push for specific plan earlier)

3 votes by reason of not helpful or non-participation, 4 if you cound pablito's "bunch of nothing" reasoning.

No other suggestion vote reason had more than 1 vote.

What are you talking about? No one with more than 1 vote on this list was even nominated. I see Zwet and Animorph with 2 votes and I see Hewitt and DisCode on the block. (And technically 2 is plurality, not majority)

If you don't like flavor, don't sign up for theme games. This is Big Brother Mafia. It is a combination of both games, period. You can't separate them.

No it isn't. It's a mafia game first. It just happens to be a Big Brother theme.

[Kmd4390]

Yes, it is. It is a combined game, not one first and then the other. The name of the game is Big Brother Mafia. Point me to another game of mafia that has POV and coup d'eta. This is not called Mafia with touches of Big Brother.

It's a mafia game with a Big Brother theme. It is NOT a Big Brother game. The idea is to find the scum like in mafia (if you are town), NOT to be the last remaining player like in Big Brother. If you are playing this like Big Brother, you are NOT playing to your win condition.

Going off of an associative tell for the first vote is very weird. Especially since your main reason for thinking Llama is scum was his relation to Kmd and Sens (in regard to his explanation for his vote for Kmd as HoH, which you didn't like)! I think you're spiraling a bit out of control here with your whole "DisCode is tied to LlamaFluff, and LlamaFluff is tied to Kmd, and since Kmd is scum, that means LlamaFluff is scum, so DisCode is also scum." And all this without Kmd even flipping scum yet!

Actually, Zwet/Llama/Paltry's actions combined with me being a good scum player make me scum. DisCode is the 5th scum on our team. Haven't you been reading Sly's posts?

He wasn't replaced when I nominated him. WIFOM.

1. How the hell is there any WIFOM here?
2. So what if there was?

@kmd - Can you put up a DC case?

I'll try when I have time.

[Kmd4390]

It's not semantics. If you are playing this game like Big Brother, you are not playing to your win condition.

Ok, but flaking vs lurking has nothing to do with WIFOM. And even it it was WIFOM, WIFOM is not always a bad thing.

[Kmd4390]

Snow_Bunny for HOH?

[Kmd4390]

Out of kmd/Sens :Sens. Kmd wasb't acting scumym and replacing out because of bad players is a bad move, and I sonsider it scummy.

Out of bv310/hewitt: bv310. Hewitt looked way more townie, and seemed more helpfuk overall.

Realizing that Sens and Hewitt got the same Role PM, what is your read on Hewitt now and why?

Okay so pre-eviction I stated that my nominees would be SlySly and saberwolf. Obviously I would like to get every single player's nominations before I make my own.

bv310

- Kmd4390, animorpherv1, Paltry Excuse, MrFinch, SnowBunny, Crazy, Sirongous, Kast, Pablito
Hewitt - saberwolf

Hmm. Absolutely no info to take from this. Animorph and Snow_Bunny work as noms.

If it were up to me, I would put up kmd ("really liked" the DisCode nomination, among other previously stated reasons, which I can restate upon request)

How is it a scumtell that I agreed with you? And your "previously stated reasons" are crap.

[Kmd4390]

Right now Sly and Paltry are top suspects, but Sironigous shouldn't be getting a free pass either.

I'm also feeling a bit of a lack of punch coming from Crazy. Kinda coasting.

Elaborate instead of just throwing names out. (Hypocritical of me, I know, but I'd like to know if you have reasons for suspecting those players)

How is it a scumtell that I agreed with you?

I am just reminding everyone that you "really liked" that pick that everyone else hated and were very quick to vote DisCode out with authority.

Yeah, I'll be first to admit I was happy to see your choice. But if you'd leave my quote of you instead of cutting it out like you did, you clearly used it as a reason to suspect me. My question was why.

Time will tell. Seems like we have been here before. Seen any Bigfoot tracks?

Look. Meta is great, don't get me wrong. But the major flaw is that the meta "tell" you have on me (being a "good" scum player) labels me as scum in any game I play with you.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, but why do you see it as a point against me that I agreed with you? Why is this question so hard to answer?

Your points against me were the "meta" and connections. If you are downplaying the DisCode agreement and the meta, your main point against me is actions of other players who have yet to flip scum.

[Kmd4390]

Sly, you do realize that you making an "If I am scum, so is Kmd! Nom him instead!" argument there, right? Basically, you have to admit to being scum before you can make the point that I did what you did and must be scum for it.

[Kmd4390]

So suspecting DisCode is a scumtell against me and a nulltell against you? Why?

As for my reasons,
A)Didn't like most of what he said
B)Heavily lurkied (which later meant flaking, so I was wrong there, but meh)
C)Saw two players appear to connect themselves to him (See? I wait for the flip before sharing connections I see)

[Kmd4390]

Snow, if Sly were to have the veto, who would you want evicted? If you were HoH, who would you evict? What about if you were HoH and Sly claimed to have the veto?

-------------

Sly, you are making no sense about DisCode.

There's no point discussing connections I saw to a player who has flipped town. Those connections have already been proven wrong.

[Kmd4390]

My thoughts about you and the DisCode pick make perfect sense.

Not really. This seems to be your thought process:
-You nominated DisCode
-I liked the choice and voted him over Hewitt
-People called you scummy for your nomination
-I should ALSO be considered scummy for agreeing with it.

If I were to be considered scummy for agreeing with your choice, shouldn't your choice be considered scummy first? For the point to be accurate against me, wouldn't it have to be accurate against you first? For me to be scum based on this point, wouldn't you have to be scum first?

There's no point discussing connections I saw to a player who has flipped town. Those connections have already been proven wrong.

You should have shared those thought when I was HoH and asking for nomination reasoning. Withholding information is a scum tell.

It's not withholding information (which I don't consider a scumtell) if there is no information to be withholding. I didn't see the other two players as being all that scummy on their own, so I wouldn't have wanted them nominated before DisCode anyway. So there was no point going into it.

[Kmd4390]

Yep, see it makes perfect sense. You did fail to point out how you made your vote without hesitation or reason though, which adds to the scumminess of your support for a nomination that ultimately flipped town.

Hmm. Do I vote the player I think could be scum or one of my most obvtown reads in the entire game? Tough choice. You're right, I should have hesitated to make that decision. (Note the sarcasm)

If my nomination of DisCode is to be considered scummy, the scumminess of anyone supporting that nomination should be looked into as well. Someone being scummy in another's eyes does not make them scum.

I just think it's weird that rather than defend the point, you are basically saying that I should be seen as scummy for the same reasons.

FFFFFF. Sens I thought would help (at the beginning) but turned out to be a big pain, which screwed over the town. That made me consider him as scum. Hewitt did none of that.

.........

Sens and Hewitt share a role PM. If Sens was scum, Hewitt is scum.

[Kmd4390]

One of your most obvtown reads? You are teetering now. How come in the same post where you voted DisCode without reason or hesitation did you state that you were only "leaning slightly town" on hewitt?

Meh. Had an obvtown read on Sens while he was here. His ragequit was a slight scumtell based on meta. Hewitt's play has been more obvtown. Overall, I'm saying obvtown.

It is really pretty simple, if you are going to consider someone scummy for a stance, you should consider anyone else that takes or agrees with that same stance scummy too.

So you are saying that I am scummy for the SAME reasons that you are scummy. You can NOT make this point without calling yourself scummy first.

-----------------

Hewitt, I like your nom list. I'd choose Animorph and Snow from that list.

[Kmd4390]

So you are saying that I am scummy for the SAME reasons that you are scummy. You can NOT make this point without calling yourself scummy first.

Others have called me scummy for it already. If they feel I am scummy for it, I feel obligated to point out your support of the same thing they are calling me scummy for. Twist it all you want. It doesn't change anything.

I'm not twisting a thing. If I am scummy for suspecting DisCode, you are scummy for it. And you are using it as a point against me. To make this point, you have to admit to your own scuminess.

I'm done arguing with a brick wall though. I'm sure everyone else sees the point I am making and there is no point trying to convince you because you are stuck on the idea that I am scum and I can't change your mind.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not twisting a thing

Ok, I lied. I'm twisting my nipples.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Animorph, Snow_Bunny

just so it's bolded this time.

[Kmd4390]

vote:SlySly

Choosing nominations noone likes isn't a town tell.

Who would you choose as a second nom?

I thought Snowbunny was one of your higher town reads.

No. What made you think that?

Now that Sly has brought it up... why did you say you liked the bv nomination and then still vote to evict him?

Um. Are you implying that I shouldn't have voted to evict someone who I liked to see nominated for eviction?

[Kmd4390]

I didn't see a personal attack. I saw Llama upset with a move you made in this game (noms).

[Kmd4390]

What he said can be interpreted in 2 ways. Interpret in my way and it is very close to Ad Hom. You seem very hard set on keeping any battle of semantics open with me in this game. Do you think you are going to get me to concede this point anymore than you have other points in this game? If so, I guess we can go a few rounds and say the same things over and over until you see I am not going to change my opinion once again.

Also thanks to someones stupid noms we only have one PoV left... so

Also thanks to someone

s

stupid

s

noms we only have one PoV left... so

The difference is his actual quote calls the noms stupid where you seem to think he is calling you specifically stupid.

[Kmd4390]

Same question to you kmd. How is this discussion helping the nomination process in anyway?

Your logic for suspecting Llama is almost as bad as your logic for suspecting me. I'm trying to help you see this, but I'm getting nowhere.

No. What made you think that?

This:

Who does everyone want as the next HOH? I'm not going to just take who everyone says, but I want input. I'm leaning Snow-Bunny.

Ok, I can see how you'd think that. Actually, to start the game, Snow was one of my bigger scum reads. She started to look more town, but managed to slip back up my scumlist.

I want to see who she does/doesn't nom if she's HoH. It was the same thing with Zwet. It helps us read those who don't make it easy. As I stated earlier, I have a hard time reading Snow. Forcing her to make two noms would help me make connections if there are connections to make.

We have to remember that there are two scumgroups. Even if Snow is scum, maybe we evict scum from the other group if she's HoH. And if we can get a better read on her at the same time, we're in good shape. That's kind of why I want to see who she suspects and have been trying to get her to actually scumhunt. Even scum should be scumhunting (for the other group), so there's no excuse not to scumhunt.

You should have posted your claim immediately after I made this post. If you say you didn't see it, not reading the thread = scumtell. kmd never disputed this theory either.

Wait, what's the theory and why am I disputing it?

[Kmd4390]

After some ISO scans, I want the following:
-Pablito's detailed thoughts on Animorph
-Paltry's reasons for going from a huge town read on Sly to an apparent scum read, yet no nom vote on Sly.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry, an the ISO scan, I went to your posts and hit ctrl+f and typed in "Sly". Everything I read in the beginning looked like a boner-hard town read on him. At the point in the game where people start to turn on Sly, your mentioning of Sly is all questioning and criticizing him. Maybe you don't directly call him scummy (until your wishy washy answer just now), but it's clear you've dropped your hard town read. My question to you still stands. Why?

[Kmd4390]

Everyone:

- I'm not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier... but why doesn't the person with the POV just claim? This is a nightless game, so they can't be killed by scum.

Ok.

I won't use it.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Snow

I'm not using the veto.

[Kmd4390]

I think Snow is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Right, you're going to want reasoning on that.

Snow doesn't give opinions until pressured. When pressured, she pretty much restates what everyone else says and tries to pass it as her own. When called on something, she refrains from posting or just ignores it completely. She's too worried about looking good and not worried enough about finding scum.

[Kmd4390]

I find it interesting that your entire view of his posting has changed from positive to negative though. If I were to put + and - signs by your implied opinion of him each time you mention him, the beginning of the game would be nothing but + while everything after a certain point becomes -. It doesn't look like something that one action naturally causes. Not much changed in Sly's posting, so it's all the way you percieve him or want us to think you percieve him. I find it very interesting.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, Snow/Sly, if you want suggestions for the next HoH, you can't go wrong with bv310.

[Kmd4390]

Wait. How is Bv grouped with Llama and myself?

[Kmd4390]

Why?

[Kmd4390]

What about Bv gives you the impression that he wouldn't do "damage"?

[Kmd4390]

vote Sly

I'd like to hear more from SnowBunny before I vote for her.

Um. Too late to vote

your scumbuddy

Snow now.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, Snow/Sly, if you want suggestions for the next HoH, you can't go wrong with bv310.

Out of curiosity, why me? I haven't posted a whole heck of a lot since re-replacing in. (Which I am trying to rectify. RL has been limiting my access lately)

So we can see who you nominate.

[Kmd4390]

In close to 30 games this may actually be the first time ive been called VI

I was called a VI by Benmage before.

[Kmd4390]

Snow, you leave room for all 7 of the players you just posted about to be scum. Interesting.

Kast, I disagree with most of that post and find the second post very odd (Looks like an "Oh shit, this is gonna get attacked, here's a defense" post).

[Kmd4390]

Kast, I comment on what I see as necassary. If you'd like me to comment on something specific, point me in that direction.

In detail, here's what I disagree with in your post:
-Sly being scummy. His opinions differ from most of the town. It seems like he's overthinking things. I think overthinking is a towntell more than it's a scumtell. But his strategy of nominating his suspects who no one else seems to suspect actually is understandable because how many other chances will he get to evict those players other than when he's in power?
-your stance on Snow. You're right that she isn't very active, but how does that mean she isn't scummy? Did you read my opinion on her about how she won't speak up unless pressured, and even then it's a people pleaser repetition of what's been stated already? And her stances in Post 1003 are very wishy washy.
-The Sens(Hewitt)/Animorph connection. I don't see Hewitt pointing it out if it were accurate, but meh. I also have a town read on Hewitt.

[Kmd4390]

What does everyone think about the Sironigous+Snow_Bunny relationship? For some reason they both seem to suspect each other and Sironigous' vote is a bit willy-nilly and hammers Sly in the end. Especially when Sir has not been around as much and happens to be more active when Snow_bunny is on the block.

Let's get a flip from one of them before we draw a connection.

[Kmd4390]

Interesting, I get hammered for going against the majority suggestions and now the 2 people I have been saying are scum the whole time go against the majority and vote to keep me around. I have to give them my admiration for flying under the radar so effectively.

I've called Snow scummy all game. I haven't called you scummy. Also, Paltry's vote doesn't mean a thing because you were already evicted.

[Kmd4390]

Well you made a point about how I voted. I explained my reasons.

Yes, all votes mean "something" I guess. But a vote cast to evict is different from a vote cast after an eviction has already occurred.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not gonna defend Sly point by point because he's already been evicted, but I don't agree with your points against him.

My points on Snow are different than active lurking.

Example of active lurking:
Me-"Mod, please prod Snow"
Snow-"I'm here. Catching up."
Me-"Wasn't Snow catching up?"
Snow-"Sorry, this is taking longer than I thought."

Example of my points on Snow:
Snow-"Some people might be scummy I guess"
Me-"Like who?"
Snow-"I don't know. Whoever everyone else says I guess."
Me-"Why are they scummy"
Snow-"Reason XYZ that people have said all along"
Me-"People said that already"
Snow-"Ok, here's my thoughts on everyone"
*Snow posts opinions on 7 players that all basically say maybe town, maybe scum*

Ok, so I exaggarated it a little this time, but I want you to see the point. But yeah, I'd consider Snow "actively scummy". I think she is the most likely player to be scum right now.

About Hewitt, I can understand your stance, but I still think Hewitt is town.

[Kmd4390]

I've just realized my opinion of Snow is shaken every time Kmd's opinion of Snow changes (and I believe his opinion has gone from scum -> town -> scum). I also find that annoying because I want to follow my own instincts but apparently I'm not confident enough in any of them (for a short period I even thought SLY was town!)

Well. There was a breif moment where Snow's posts started to look more natural, but I thought about that and it looked more like a playstyle thing when I looked back again. Other than that, I've considered Snow to be scum from the very beginning. (Although she wasn't my top suspect until somewhere between the DisCode nom and Hewitt's noms.)

---------------

Oh, and guys? I had a dream last night that Sly was town.

[Kmd4390]

^You spend too much time on here.

I'm not the only one

[Kmd4390]

Paltry is obviously Sly's scumbuddy.

[Kmd4390]

Um.

Interesting.

Ok, I want everyone to vote two noms. Doesn't mean you'll get them, but I want everyone to take a solid stance NOW. No "well, here's two names I guess but then again maybe this third name could go above this second". Give me two names in bold that you want nominated today.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry is obviously Sly's scumbuddy.

Why exactly? The guy wanted me lynched since Day 1 when I vetoed his nomination.

He was distancing.

It's more the way you completely turned your stance on him when he started to take heat.

The other one would be Sir or Ani, but I want to read again before I make my choice.

I'll be waiting for a decision.

[Kmd4390]

What is gutsy about it?

Yes, I read your comments about Finch and am not sure yet about how much I agree. Definitely taking it into consideration and need to look at both Finch and Sly again.

[Kmd4390]

-Sly was quick to accuse people of distancing, so I expect that he did a bit of it himself.
-Paltry came out of the gate with a "town read" on Sly and voted him for HoH BEFORE he was comfortable calling anyone scum. As soon as Sly took heat, he went after Sly himself.
-Your veto point makes sense. Sly talked a lot about scum scheming. I wouldn't doubt if the veto thing was supposed to be some kind of scheme.

Things that need to happen before we have our noms:
-Some people still need to vote
-I need to read Finch, Sly, and maybe some others.
-I need to decide who I'm nomming.

[Kmd4390]

Animorph, that is one of the worst thought processes I have ever seen.

[Kmd4390]

Nom count:

Snow -5- bv, Animorph, hewitt, Sir, pablito
Animorph -3- Crazy, bv, Finch
Kast -2- Crazy, Animorph
Finch -2- hewitt, pablito
Llama -1- Snow
bv -1- Sir
Sir -1- Finch

Still need noms from:
Llamafluff
PaltryExcuse
snow_bunny- still need one more.
Kast

Things that stand out:
-Snow posting one nom, but has yet to post another while most everyone has given one.
-Animorph saying "random people" need to go up.
-Pablito's noms being identical to Hewitt's.
-Pablito NOT nomming Animorph, who he has seemed to have suspected all game.
-No Paltry noms.
-Support for a Sir eviction earlier, yet Finch is the only Sir vote so far.
-Not impressed with Sir's noms (BV and Snow)
-2 Kast votes that seem to come out of nowhere

I want everyone's thoughts on Paltry ASAP

[Kmd4390]

Ok, so Sly/Paltry/Finch make up the Chenbots.

Question:
Would we rather evict a Chenbot today or take a shot at the other group? Or does it even matter?

[Kmd4390]

Paltry,

to A:
I didn't say there was no reason. I think the reason is that he started to take heat and you didn't want to look bad defending your buddy.
to B:
Meh. I'm not too sure about the veto, but it does fit with Sly's style to put up bad noms knowing that you had the veto and then attack you expecting to be lynched hoping to make you come out looking better or something stupid like that.
to C:
Who do you think classifies as a "neutral position" from Sly's points of view?

In response to your "cases":
Try again. It's your turnaround stance on Sly that mostly has me sold. Sly didn't help things though by assuming in every attack he made that scum distance/bus all the time and he was attacking you kind of softly.

Why I got HoH:
Don't know, don't care. It doesn't help me personally to try to figure that out.

[Kmd4390]

I woulnd't be surprised to see Sly do that.

You must have missed the part where I said Finch is Sly's other buddy.

Your turnaround is more logical from a scum point of view than town. And it isn't gradual. Ctrl+F "Sly" in your ISO posts. Put a + next to the positive comments and a - next to the negative ones. It looks something like +++++++++++--------------. Gradual would be more like +++++--+--+-+------------. That's not what it is though. At one point it switches straight from positive to negative.

Hmm. I missed that he voted you. Ok, guess it wasn't that soft.

Hewitt and Pablito are still alive. Sly has flipped scum. If I'm going to act based on connections I see, they will be connections to Sly. (Otherwise, I'd have already suggested evicting Pablito/Animorph, but I haven't even mentioned that connection until now while proving my point).

[Kmd4390]

I don't like that the only thing that people are seeing about Paltry is the veto. I actually didn't have a problem with Paltry's using the veto.

Snow, if you don't know what connections I see between Sly/Paltry/Finch, you need to do a better job of reading my posts.

[Kmd4390]

Nom count:

Animorph -7- Crazy, bv, Finch , Paltry, Llama, Snow, Kast
Snow -6- bv, Animorph, hewitt, Sir, pablito , Llama
Kast -2- Crazy, Animorph
Finch -2- hewitt, pablito
bv -2- Sir , Kast
Sir -2- Finch , Paltry
Llama -1- Snow

Now that everyone has chosen two noms, here are my thoughts:
I'm pretty confident that Paltry is scum. So I have two choices. The first is try to get Paltry evicted. I'm not sure who I'd put him up against though. I'd like to choose someone who I actually do suspect at least a little bit just in case that player is evicted, but I'd like it to be someone less likely to be evicted than Paltry. The only player who come to mind is Kast, who has the coup de ta. The next best option is probably Finch, who I expect would be evicted instead.

The other choice is to go with the majority opinion and nominate two players who I actually do suspect, but also don't expect to make it to endgame anyway. That would be Animorph and Snow. Both have recieved plenty of suspicion and I think it's very likely that if I don't nominate either of them, both will be evicted later anyway. Paltry, however, I think will slip away if I don't get him evicted now.

I don't want to put Paltry up against an obvtown player like Llama or Hewitt because it provides no information.

Someone who is tempting me now is Crazy. I can't shake a gut feeling I have that Crazy is scum even though his play looks pretty protown. I haven't really seen many thoughts on Crazy.

Yeah, right now I'm leaning Paltry/Crazy as my noms in hopes of evicting Paltry. I'll wait until right before deadline so we can get more discussion in first, but right now, plan on those noms.

[Kmd4390]

Animorph -7- Crazy, bv, Finch , Paltry, Llama, Snow, Kast
Snow -6- bv, Animorph, hewitt, Sir, pablito , Llama
Kast -2- Crazy, Animorph
Finch -2- hewitt, pablito
bv -2- Sir , Kast
Sir -2- Finch , Paltry
Llama -1- Snow

^Also, if I get stuck at some point, expect me to come back to this and find a scum. I'll probably find everyone's Day 1 and 2 nom choices too and do some weird version of a Vote Count analysis.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure.

It depends on Crazy's alignment and scum's playstyles.

I know that personally, when I'm scum, I tend to not mention my buddies as much as I should (unless I'm bussing/distancing), but it's never intentional.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry, yeah, I've got the power as HoH and I'm going to use it to the best of my ability. If you're smart, you would too in the same situation, regardless of your alignment.

Sly's noms, I didn't like because I had a town read on one and a PM from the Mod telling me that the other was town.

If you flip town, then *shrug*. I was wrong. Just like the DisCode flip. Whatever. It happens.

Yes, I'm trying to decide for the town. If someone else was HoH, I'd be pushing MY views and trying to make them listen to me. Well, I'm HoH, so that makes my job easier. If I do things right, it doesn't matter if anyone listens to me. I can work to the best of my ability to evict scum. All I need is the vote to go the way I want it to.

[Kmd4390]

Sly's noms, I didn't like because I had a town read on one and a PM from the Mod telling me that the other was town.

Care to explain what you mean by this? How did you get mod confirmation on someone's alignment?

Right before the game started, I got a Role PM. It told me I was town.

I can tell you why the mod told him. The other was Kmd. Kmd is claiming he got a town pm.

***DING DING DING***

[Kmd4390]

Crazy, Sly strikes me as someone who would bus. And Paltry's reaction looked like scum who knew his buddy was caught.

What are your thoughts on the possibility of being nominated against Paltry?

[Kmd4390]

There are more interesting secnarios if you want PE up and want him lynched/information. I would go up the PE/[sir/kast(zwet)/bv(saber)] if you wanted that, even though if PE is a must, PE/ani is my pick.

Paltry vs Sir
-Would result in a Sir eviction

Paltry vs Kast
-Actually not a bad choice. The only thing is the coup de ta.

Paltry vs bv
-Pretty sure bv is town

Paltry vs Animorph
-Yeah, try telling me Animorph wouldn't be evicted in a landslide here.

Why didn't you include Snow here?

[Kmd4390]

Actually, since it's been brought up. I've been trying to figure out a bit of a WIFOM question. Maybe some of you guys can help. Kast came right out and claimed the coup de tat. Would he have done that as scum? Or town? Both? Neither?

As town, what does it really accomplish? Ok, we know who has it. He can talk to us if he's considering using it. It's more info for the town. Doesn't really hurt anything. Ok, so why not claim it? That's the thought process I'd have. It's basically like a power role and scum don't kill in this game, so it can't hurt to claim it.

What about scum's perspective? At first, I don't see how it helps to claim it. It brings a lot of unwanted attention your way. Then again, maybe people will fear nominating you? But if even one person sees it as a threat or suspects you, you're going to have to use it and then become a huge target.

I think the fact that Kast claimed the coup detat right away is a big point in his favor. Thoughts?

----------------

Farside, yep, thanks for the reminder. I'll be around. I have nothing but free time since losing my girlfriend, job, and car in the last 2-3 weeks.

[Kmd4390]

I usually get a fairly strong town read from zwet which I did not get in this game.

Yeah, that's been my issue from both Zwet and Kast. I don't think I've ever played a game with Kast where I didn't call him "obvtown", but I don't have that read on him this game.

Also if the PoV person is being discussed for nominations, claim now.

I'm not nominating the person who I gave the veto to.

Wow that sucks.

*shrug*

[Kmd4390]

I just really dislike a Crazy/PE nom since I would prefer neither get lynched

Well we disagree then.

I think Paltry needs to go.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, if I nominate Crazy and Paltry, I know the veto won't be used. I'm also very sure that Paltry will be the one who is evicted. I realize that if he flips town, I'll look pretty bad, but I don't care. As HoH, I want to do everything I can to evict scum who I don't think will be evicted later in the game.

Nominate Crazy and Paltry

.

[Kmd4390]

Crazy, I'm curious. How do you see yourself as being linked to Snow. I don't remember anyone saying that.

[Kmd4390]

Honestly, I'm surprised I'm not up for elimination.

I think I know

who I wanna eliminate, but I'm just going to stay cool for a bit before I rush to any decisions (like last elimination).

Who are you leaning?

[Kmd4390]

Wanting Paltry lynched, why would I put up a case on Crazy? If it's a strong enough case, it will sway votes his way. But I'm much more sure of Paltry being scum than Crazy. I'm not putting up a case on Crazy.

[Kmd4390]

Wanting Paltry lynched, why would I put up a case on Crazy? If it's a strong enough case, it will sway votes his way. But I'm much more sure of Paltry being scum than Crazy. I'm not putting up a case on Crazy.

Then why is he up?

Because I think Paltry will be evicted over him, but wouldn't mind being wrong as much as I would with someone else up in Crazy's place.

I just want the reasoning on why he does suspect Crazy since he actually is my top town read

Gut.

----------------

Hewitt, in a game with multiple scumgroups, even if I was scum, I'd be trying to evict the other scum group.

Your option A is exactly what I'm trying to do. I am pretty sure Paltry is scum. Yes, I suspect Snow, Animorph, Finch and to a lesser extent, maybe Sir, but I don't expect them to make it to endgame. Paltry and Crazy could actually make it pretty far, so it's best to get rid of one of them, preferably Paltry, while I have the power to do so.

[Kmd4390]

Any chance of explaining that gut though? Even if its just pointing out some posts.

Maybe later in the game I'll look into it.

[Kmd4390]

Any chance of explaining that gut though? Even if its just pointing out some posts.

Maybe later in the game I'll look into it.

How about before we evict someone?

I really have no clue how Crazy is high enough on anyones list to get a vote.

I predict he gets at least some votes.

[Kmd4390]

I doubt more then one or two. You cant tell me that you seriously expect this to be remotely close

No, not really.

[Kmd4390]

The coup goes away after Day 8. Kast should use his judgement on it. No point forcing anything.

[Kmd4390]

2) Arguing with you has been very enjoyable, and I hope to play with you again.

Heh, I actually have to agree.

Paltry, I have to admit I'm impressed with your last few posts. Especially seeing that this is your 4th game (:shock:) and then looking at your join date.

[Kmd4390]

My question goes out to kmd:

If we evict Paltry, will you follow the group if you get nommhed HoH again.

I'd nominate who I think is scum.

If Paltry is scum, probably Finch with... I don't know, maybe Pablito?

If Paltry is town, probably like Snow and Animorph or something.

But I can't be HoH twice in a row.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, at least one of Paltry/Crazy is scum. I'm pretty sure of this.

(Damn, I can just feel my tone carrying over from the 2 SA games I just joined)

[Kmd4390]

Crazy and Paltry (although I already think I know what Paltry's going to say), if you get tapped as HoH tomorrow, who would you nominate?

This was already asked. Very recently.

Guys, deadline is tomorrow. Get voting

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: Any comments on anything I've said before my lynch?

I already said I'm impressed.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Snow and Animorph

. It has to be done.

Preference list:
snow_bunny
animorpherv1
pablito
Llamafluff
bv310
Kast
hewitt

Crazy, if you are scum, it's definitely in your best interest to try and evict someone from the other scum team.

[Kmd4390]

What? I was inactive before my noms?!? Really?!?

And if I did Paltry/Snow, Paltry wouldn't have been evicted. I'd have been distracted suspecting him all game. Now I have time to focus on some other things a little better.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and since we have two flips from one scum team, let's see if I can find their last buddy. Of course an eviction of the other team would be just as good, but I want to take a look at whatever I can and this is where we have the most leads.

ISO scans using Ctrl+F="Sir" and "Sly":
Animorph:
Sly=Interactions don't look like Slybuddy interactions.
Sir= Interactions are pretty limited. Places Sir third on a list of three.
Conclusion=Doesn't seem like a buddy to Sly, but interactions with Sir are limited. Not sure if he's a Chenbot or not to be honest. Definitely scummy though.

BV (keep in mind that he played some of the game as what is now known to be a town role):
Sly= Seems to legitimitely suspect Sly.
Sir=Hard to take much from these interactions.
Conclusion=Interactions with Sly alone look legit. I also really don't think Bv has been scummy at all. Probably not scum, also unlikely ChenBot.

Crazy:
Sly= Went after Sly pretty hard. Never seemed to want him as HoH. Liked him as a nom. Wanted him gone.
Sir= Didn't really mention Sir except a couple of times to defend him.
Conclusion= Meh. It's possible that he decided early on that he wanted to bus Sly, but I'm honestly not seeing ChenBot here. May be in the other scum group, but I don't think he's a ChenBot.

Hewitt:
Sly=Liked Sly early on, but that didn't last long. Hewitt nominated Sly for eviction and eventually got his way.
Sir=Seemed to suspect Sir, but only lightly.
Conclusion=Hewitt is probably the towniest player in the game right now. Looking at interactions, he was personally responsible for Sly's eviction, so if he bussed that hard, well done. More than likely town here.

Kast:
Sly=Clearly pro-Slyeviction.
Sir=Calls him neutral first. After that, not much mention of him except to say he doesn't look like Sly's buddy.
Conclusion=While I had a town read on Kast, he looks like a potential buddy of Sir. It's possible that he bussed Sly. Meh, on second thought, too many other people were quiet about Sir to assume that. Kast looks town, so I'm going with that.

Llama:
Sly=Didn't want Sly as HoH. Didn't like Sly's noms. Voted Snow over Sly for eviction.
Sir=Really only mentions Sir as part of lists.
Conclusion=Llama, are you doing a good job of looking town as scum again?

Pablito:
Sly=

And I change viewpoints on slysly a lot.

^Phrases his view on Sly the best here. Sometimes seems to go after him hard, but backs off and turns his attention elsewhere. It's like giving a Yo-Yo to a 3 year old and expecting the thing to stay in one place. Not happening.
Sir=Mentions Sir MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more than anyone else I've looked at so far. Definitely wants him gone.
Conclusion=Pablito is the most obv-nonchenbot in this game. His view on Sly looks like honest uncertainty and he was pretty obviously anti-Sir. If Pablito is scum, he's the group that hasn't flipped yet.

Snow:
Sly=Mentions Sly less than anyone else I scanned mentions him. Wants him as HoH first. Then shows frustration with his noms. Wants him evicted.
Sir=Actually seems to go after Sir harder than anyone else did other than Pablito.
Conclusion=Not a ChenBot. Probably otherscum.

ChenBotList (Most likely on top):
Animorph
Llama
Kast
Crazy
Snow
BV
Hewitt
Pablito

ScumList (most likely scum, regardless of which team, on top):
Animorph
Snow
Llama
Crazy
Pablito
Kast
BV
Hewitt

----------------------

Ok, Animorph and Snow are scummy. We all know that. We all seem to agree. No sense elaborating there.

Llama. Llama. Well. Looking over his posts, he hasn't really taken command like he usually does. He's gone after easy/popular targets. He seems like he could be connected to Sly/Sir. Actually, what his play reminds me of is his power role play, but we don't have power roles in this game, so Llama, what the hell is up here? Are you trying to go under the radar as scum for once?

Crazy, I still have that gut feeling on. He didn't impress me much when he was on the block either.

Pablito, I feel like hasn't been looked at nearly enough. And I won't go into it yet, but I sense a connection with Animorph.

--------------------------

We have to remember that we have 4 scum left and most of the players left have looked pretty protown in this game. Evicting Snow and Animorph, at most, will net us two scum. Pretty soon, it's gonna have to be time to put some good players under scrutiny. It isn't easy to do, but we have scum in this game who are playing well. We've got to figure out who that is.

-------------------------

On my Chenbot list, I think it's pretty clear we'll find the last ChenBot it Animorph/Llama/Kast.

-------------------------

Whenever I get into another "let's analyze the shit out of something and see what I find" mood, I'll try to look at people's nom suggestions and eviction votes and see what I can find.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, 423 is the first time I see you show serious suspicion on Ainmorph. In 331, I say I feel like he's been ignored and that I suspect him. Crazy actually votes him for a nomination in 353. Paltry called him out in 345. So yeah, by the time you started going after Animorph, the idea was definitely already out there.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, I'm not getting it.

[Kmd4390]

I'm saying that scum who are enraged are more likley to quit. Here's why.


Something didn't go right -> Less mistakes you should make -> I'm being looked at bad! -> More likeley to get lynched -> This isn't good -> replace out and hope a better replacement comes for your spot.

And why does someone have to be scum to think this way?

[Kmd4390]

And why does someone have to be scum to think this way?

[Kmd4390]

I see what you are saying you think was going on in his head. I just don't see why it is more likely to come from scum than from town.

[Kmd4390]

I've been aggitated (spelling?) as town just as much, if not more than, as scum. Hell, I'm probably more than likely to get pissed off as town because I don't know anyone's alignment.

[Kmd4390]

No. I have no reason to be pissed. And you don't have the "how can you be so fucking dense" playstyle that would piss me off anyway.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, I'm much more likely to be pissed off on SA than on mafiascum.

[Kmd4390]

Crap, I know I don't believe in ani's logic, but it kinda seems that he has thought it out for himself. Proving that ani's logic is wrong doesn't mean anything, unfortunately.

Two scum groups.

[Kmd4390]

If you nom Animorph and BV, I'm voting Animorph the first time I log on after noms.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not trying to justify anything. I was wrong. It happens.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, I think Animorph is suggesting that Crazy is my scumbuddy, not that I have a guilty on him.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Animorph

as promised.

Well its still not really likely. What is your current opinion of Crazy though?

Possible scum. Not exactly my top suspect though.

[Kmd4390]

I still think Kast is town.

[Kmd4390]

Guys, I'm pretty sure Pablito is scum. Pablito, Snow, and Llama are out remaining scum. How do we want to do this? If Snow goes up, she'll be evicted for sure. If we evict her today, are we going to be able to evict Pablito and Llama in the future or should I nominate them today? Kast, if I did that, would you be using the coup?

[Kmd4390]

I would not use Coup today.

Becuase of this, I'm considering doing that. I think Llama is scum who knows that Snow would be evicted over him and is offering himself up against Snow, knowing he'd be safe. It kind of makes me want to evict him sooner.

[Kmd4390]

You cant honestly say that I would be in a F3 in this game.

I'm surprised that you think you have no chance to survive to endgame. Like, I don't even know how to react to it.

Why do you think you would be evicted in a landslide over Pablito?

[Kmd4390]

Llama, what do you think would be the outcome of a Llama/Snow nomination?

[Kmd4390]

Actually, Llama, what are your thoughts on Pablito? You haven't really commented on him much and I think he might be your scumbuddy.

[Kmd4390]

Day 5 and you have a neutral read?

[Kmd4390]

Llama, out of curiosity, which game?

[Kmd4390]

Oh. I thought you were scum in that game when I made that post. Afat and I had already assumed a second scum group or SK.

[Kmd4390]

How is it any different from me being town who thinks you are scum?

[Kmd4390]

I'm not sure I've ever suspected you as town.

[Kmd4390]

Nominate Llama and Pablito

Snow is definitely not making it to endgame. We know this. I'm not wasting my time on her. Kast has said he isn't using the coup if I put up these noms. I think I'm nominating both of the remaining producer scum, so I don't really care who goes. Personally, I'd prefer Pablito because he has a better chance making it to endgame than Llama does, but I'm not complaining if Llama goes, which is what I expect to happen.

[Kmd4390]

I need to check pablito's connections with dead scum, I think.

After you do this, tell me what you think of his interactions with Animorph.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not completely sure what I'd do if the veto was used.

There's two ways I could go with this:
1) Put up Snow and watch her be evicted.
2) Put up someone else who probably won't be evicted to try and get either you (Pablito) or Llama evicted.

I'm a little worried because no one but me seems to suspect Pablito.

[Kmd4390]

Can you maybe outline your case on pablito? Because I really just don't see it.

Gut and a connection to a dead scum.

[Kmd4390]

Dead serious though, Kast or kmd are chen. I would put a huge bet on this.

Hmm. Kast is one of my town reads, so I'll take that bet. Avatar bet. If either Kast or myself is a chen bot, you choose my avatar for a month. If neither Kast or myself is a chen bot, I choose your avatar for a month. Deal?

[Kmd4390]

Well I would hope KMD puts up snowbunny, bv or Kast if the POV is used. He has said before that he might put someone up just to make sure that either Llama or I get evicted.

I can guarantee I wouldn't be putting up BV unless something drastic happens. I woulnd't count on Kast going up either.

@crazy -

all your quotes incidentally were spurred by kmd's questions toward me. I really don't think I would've mentioned ani all that much the entire time

as my thoughts were focused on snow and sir (and to some extent paltry and sly). Is your vote more to protect llama or to evict me?

The bolded is most of the connection I saw between you and animorph, which is why I questioned. Crazy's quotes are the responses you gave that reinforced my opinion.

@kmd - you state that you want to get tougher scum out now. I think you're justified in doing so, but I think we all (as town) failed to count the weeks out. The pov and coup d'etat expire next round right? So essentially the last time a held power in this game can nullify nominations is next time? And that means if we evict scum for sure, the scum's choice for hoh won't need to be worried about because the coup ensures kast is hoh tomorrow (provided nothing strange goes on). Therefore, do you think that it's important that the usage of the coup helps nullify an hoh chosen by scum or do you think that it's not as a big deal that I'm making?

The coup/veto have nothing to do with my logic at all. What I'm saying is that most of us want Snow evicted. Snow will be nominated and evicted before this game ends. That's a given. If you are scum though, and I think you are, there's a good chance that other people don't see it and you can win this game for scum. So I'm trying to minimize scum's chances of winning in order to maximize town's chances.

If we have an endgame with mostly obvtown players, we're in good shape. Ideally, I'd like to never have to evict Hewitt, Kast, BV, or myself. Everyone's lists are different though, so I'm working towards my own. But I feel that if we leave those players in this game, town will win easy. So I want to evict Pablito, Llama, Snow, and Crazy and that's the order I'd go in. (I'm not as sure of Crazy's alignment. If any of the three before him were to flip town, I'd move him ahead of Snow.)

At this point, I wouldn't mind Kmd jumping in and letting us know what he prefers in terms of pablito vs llama and if his opinions on anything have changed.

I'd prefer to see you evicted, but I'm not so sure that's going to happen. Actually, I highly doubt that it will now that I see Snow hasn't voted yet and her vote would be a hammer on Llama.

[Kmd4390]

Nominate Crazy

GOGOGOGOGO GADGET LLAMA-EVICTION!

Pablito, you suck.

[Kmd4390]

Tomorrow - Kast (if possible) if not, SB
Day seven - Whichever one of those is alive
Eight - If chen still has one member, then kmd, if not, bv
nine - bv if alive, otherwise kmd/pablito
ten - kmd/pablito

This will be useful regardless of Llama's alignment (unless he's Chen). Note that Llama is saying Hewitt and Crazy are his top town reads with this list.

If Llama is town, I know him to be a good scumhunter, so I actually wouldn't mind doing something close to what he's given us here.

If Llama producer scum, his buddy is probably Crazy or Pablito. Llama's style if he's gonna be lynched as scum is to put his buddy in a position to win the game. It seems convenient for Crazy and Hewitt to not be mentioned at all here. But maybe that's too obvious, so he put his buddy on a "one or the other" with the "Kmd OR Pablito" last day thing.

Either way, thanks for the list, Llama. I expect that it will be helpful to the town.

[Kmd4390]

When I get lynched are you happy just following my list straight down the line? Even if it results in your lynch? I have a feeling that you would support it, untill you come up then its going out the window.

No. I wouldn't lynch Kast or BV.

[Kmd4390]

When I get lynched are you happy just following my list straight down the line? Even if it results in your lynch? I have a feeling that you would support it, untill you come up then its going out the window.

No. I wouldn't lynch Kast or BV.

So then saying you are going to use my list is kind of not true?

I like:
A) Getting Snow out of this game because it has to happen.
B) Your thought process of doing what gets us in an endgame with the towniest players even if I disagree with you on who that is.

[Kmd4390]

Meh. I'm not gonna completely take everything you say as fact. I'm willing to listen though. For example, if it were to come down to a Kast/BV nom one day, I'd look at what you've said and probably vote Kast because I don't have a scum read on either player, but I know you suspect Kast and that you are a good scumhunter.

I'll be honest. Your list is probably more useful if you flip producer than if you flip town or Chen, but it's still useful either way.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd, wasn't your confidence shaken a tiny bit when Paltry flipped town?

I was a little upset about being wrong, but I'm not going to get all emo and passive just because of one player not flipping how I expected.

Yet you still felt the need to

pull this crap again?!

If "nominating my suspects" is "crap", then yes, I'll be "pulling this crap" every chance I get.

Last time that everyone disagreed with you, you were wrong. So why do it again? Are you just absurdly overconfident in your scum-hunting abilities?

Actually, I've seen other people call Llama scum so "everyone" doesn't disagree.

And just because some people disagree doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to be wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt, I have town reads on BV and Kast. I'm not going to nominate anyone who I have a town read on.

[Kmd4390]

What about me? You have been suspicious about me the whole game, yet you failed to nominate me the two times you have had the power.

You'll be evicted before the game is over so I'm not too worried about that just yet.

And of course you would say that if you were the remaining Chenbot and trying to get out the pro-town players in the most inconspicuous ways. Just because you say you have town reads on players doesn't mean I'm going to automatically believe you, especially since I've disagreed with almost all of your nominations.

If I was Chen, I'd be going after the Producers.

Can you at least explain why you have town reads on bv and Kast? Because I don't understand that at all.

BV is because of Saber. I am 95% convinced Saber was town. I'd explain further but it won't convince you any more than if I were to say "Dude, trust me."

Kast is because of the Coup claim.

Kmd, my issue with you is that a townie that went against the grain the first time and was wrong would be a bit shaken up and not likely to try it again.

See, this is a

playstyle

personality tell on me more than a tell on my alignment. I'm confident in myself to the point where I get called cocky all the time. If I'm ever "shaken up", you won't know it.

You seem to be taunting me with Paltry's flip. This isn't the first time either. My question to you is why.

I know what Kmd's argument is to that (it's that you'd be evicted anyway), but I certainly know if I was Kmd-town and made a grave error in putting up Paltry, I'd be much more likely to play it safe and nominate Snow, who most people (as well as Kmd) in the game suspect to some degree.

Actually, I'd agree with you if I was worried about how I was being viewed alignment-wise. Then I could at least gain town points which is my main goal when I'm scum. I'm not saying I don't give a shit how I'm viewed. Just that trying to evict all of the scum is more important than making sure I stay alive. I think my noms in this game show that.

I want to dig into Pablito's use of the veto a little later; that seemed a little fishy to me.

How fishy will it look AFTER Llama flips producer?

Here's Pablito's thoughts: "Shit, I'm nom'd with my buddy. Looks like he's gonna be evicted. Wait, maybe if I veto myself, Snow will go up instead."

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt, you are assuming everyone shares your opinion that Snow or myself absolutely has to be Chen.

[Kmd4390]

Also, can you explain further why you think saber is town?

Ongoing game I saw part of.

If Llama flips producer, I'd be willing to go. It was my choice to have used the veto, so if Llama flips producer, there's only one choice for everyone. and I won't fight it. I still feel more town-vibes from Llama overall.

Noted.

If I really was dead sure on Llama, I could've just vetoed him, you know.

Veto your buddy over yourself? I doubt that.

[Kmd4390]

If Hewitt is his buddy, then selecting him as HoH is the ONLY way his team has a chance.

No. You're basically assumed as HoH anyway. Llama's choice for HoH is just symbolic. I doubt very seriously that he'd choose his buddy like that.

Pablito is pretty obviously the other producer.

If Snow and BV are going up, my vote will be on Snow.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt, why the emphasis on Chenbots out of curiosity?

[Kmd4390]

Good answer.

[Kmd4390]

Kast, I was going by memory on the show. What I remember about coup is that when it's used, the person who uses it becomes HoH. I assumed that meant it started basically a new week with a new HoH and the previous HoH being eligible for nomination. Clearly, going by Farside's post, I was wrong. Still, I don't think Llama would connect himself to his buddy that way. That and Hewitt is one of my town reads.

In response to your statement that Pablito flipping town is "the nail in the coffin" for Hewitt, no. I'd evict you before I'd evict Hewitt. Maybe Crazy too, but probably not.

Vote Snow

. Easy vote.

[Kmd4390]

If I were Llama, I'd have put up someone who has been shown as a possible buddy of mine, but isn't. For example, if Pablito isn't producer, he'd be perfect.

If Hewitt went up, I don't think there's a guarantee he'd be evicted. I personally wouldn't vote him and I think most other people have higher suspects than Hewitt.

I don't see a problem with Hewitt's noms. One has already flipped scum. The other is widely accepted as likely scum. And Hewitt said his noms would be two of Animorph/Saber/Snow/Sir. He stuck to that.

I'll admit I see a stronger case in your last post than I've seen before on Hewitt. I still think Pablito is more likely a producer though.

[Kmd4390]

"Your last post" means 1680.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt, why do you think WIFOM can't be argued? That makes no sense to me.

[Kmd4390]

Hewitt, any arguement can "run around in circles". Just like any other arguement, it's up to everyone else to determine which side makes the most sense. I wish mafiascum would back off the whole "OMG ITS WIFOM WE CANT ARGUE WIFOM" thing.

So let's WIFOM this up.

Known scum, Llama, made Hewitt HoH. Fact. Kast had coup. Fact. Kast using the coup means Hewitt can't be nommed this time. Fact.

Well. Now we get into the WIFOM part. Why did Llama, as scum, make Hewitt the next HoH? One side says "to protect his scumbuddy from being evicted this round". Well, my arguement is that it implicates Hewitt as Llama's buddy way too much for Llama's taste. I think Llama would know that his choice could very well be suspected as being his buddy. So I think Hewitt is right in the arguement he's so afraid to make that Llama probably tried to frame Hewitt as his buddy.

^This is a WIFOM arguement that I am making and presenting to the town and I'm damn proud of it.

-----------------

Crazy, yeah, from my point of view, BV is the most likely town in this game other than myself.

[Kmd4390]

Prodded. Last night, I tried to make a post here from an unfamiliar laptop and somehow lost my post. But I'm extremely sure of the following:
-Pablito is producer.
-Hewitt is town. (Process of elimination. He's not Chen or Producer)
-BV is town.

I've recently convinced myself that:
-Crazy is Chen.
-If not, Kast HAS TO be Chen.

I'll respond specifically to other posts (and read them obviously) when I can.

I see that Pablito is HoH. Pablito, it's in your best interest to evict Chen. I suggest nominating Crazy.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, gonna respond to specifics now.

Llama did say early on...at least while he was up with me...that he was going to do something interesting with his hoh choice. So he knew pretty early that he was going to save hewitt from the coup.

Right. Hewitt is confirmed non-producer who evicted a Chen. So we have a confirmed townie. I won't be voting Hewitt unless he is against BV. In a BV vs Hewitt situation, I'd be pissed off and wouldn't know who to vote.

Yuck, I was worried about that.

This sounds forced. Like you knew it would happen. Only way you could have known is if you are Chen yourself. Also, no one else really fits the bill as Chen except maybe Kast.

-I assume I look more like a producer than a chenbot at this moment, since it's clear that Llama was bussing ani.

Nice try.

so I hope Kmd's tell on him is

really, really

good.

It is.

------------------

The rest of your post is straight up producer-hunting as opposed to scumhunting.

Did you find anything in your "digging"? (Simple yes or no will do)

-----------------

Crazy, 1705 is crap.

-----------------

Pablito, Crazy was one of my lower suspects early on. Someone who I wasn't going to scream "OMGOBVSCUM" over, but someone in the back of my mind. When I needed someone to put up against Paltry, who probably wouldn't be evicted, but would be ok if they were, Crazy was a great choice. His reaction to being nom'd looked a little scummy especially when compared to Paltry. I had doubts to the point where I was almost hoping to see Crazy go instead.

The second time, I was sure I had two scumpartners (Llama/Pablito) up and then when Llama was the clear eviction anyway, you use the veto on yourself, I assume hoping that Snow would be nom'd/evicted, which saves Llama. I put up Crazy because he was both my next suspect and unlikely to be evicted over Llama. Now that we know a Chenbot is here and it isn't Snow, I feel that that's got to be Crazy or Kast. I've considered Kast to be likely town for most of the game, so I'm obviously thinking Crazy is Chen.

Kmd, isn't it just an interesting coincidence I asked you about Crazy too? Of all people to ask you to look at. And of all people I wanted to talk about Crazy...just happens to be that.

Don't flatter yourself. I suspect Crazy for my own reasons, not because you asked about him.

By the way, I hope you aren't trying to imply that I'm bussing/distancing because there's only one scum left in each group.

@Kmd - What do you think of Sir and zwet both voting Sly as HoH right near the end?

Sir put his buddy in obvious reach to the point where no one else would get it and Zwet was being Zwet.

Is your town read of Kast based just on the fact that he claimed the coup? Or is there more?

Mostly the coup. I'm having doubts though. Of my three town reads, Kast is the weakest. Actually, BV and Hewitt are confirmed, so that's not saying much. Still, though. If I'm wrong on you, Kast is Chen.

Also, Kmd, has that game that made saber confirmed town completed yet? I'm so anxious to see that.

Unfortunately, it's not even close...

-----------------------

Actually, I love Crazy's plan in 1719. Crazy being evicted is a good chance of hitting Chen. If not, we know it's Kast. So we know the scum at that point. If I'm put into power, Pablito and Kast go up for sure, and yeah, Kast will probably be evicted. The only issue is whether BV and Hewitt would be willing to evict Pablito over each other and over myself. If that can happen though, we'll win the game.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd - How is hewitt confirmed?

He's non-producer because Llama made him HoH. He's non-chen because he evicted Sly. Only possibility left is town.

Yes. Because I'm clearly a Chenbot.

Can I counterclaim this?

nominate: bv and hewitt

I know I've been quick to vote all game, but this is ugly. I may need a day or two to think it over. I think I might end up voting Hewitt, but I'm really not sure.

[Kmd4390]

Ok.

Vote Hewitt

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. Vote Count says Crazy is voteless?

fixed

[Kmd4390]

kmd - so that was a quick turnaround on the vote in the end...we have plenty of time, what made the vote?

I thought about it and didn't feel like anything would make me vote BV.

[Kmd4390]

Putting a percentage on things like that is a bad idea. You, for example, in the same spot with the same opinion may use a different number than I would. Let me just say this though. If BV isn't town, I will be completely shocked. If Hewitt flips scum, it will be more "ok, I was wrong. whatever". A BV scumflip would be a huge WTF moment for me.

[Kmd4390]

Well, that could throw me off a little. If he's producer, I'd want Kast and Crazy nom'd. If he's Chen, Pablito and whoever Pabltio going against would mean he's evicted.

[Kmd4390]

Pablito, my gut told me town on Sir. I could see the logic behind him being scum, but I just wasn't finding myself thinking "hmm, I think this guy is scum".

[Kmd4390]

Kast, if you aren't Chen, I think it's Crazy. Hell, Crazy is above you on my list. Then Pablito. Then BV.

[Kmd4390]

Guys, the game ended. Read post 157 by Saber in this game

Luckily for me, I've got a town role in every single game I entered

I challenge you to find another game Saber joined around that time where he was scum. He was town there, here, <game that he died in that is ongoing>. I don't feel like looking up all his games with search down, but everything that I saw that Saber was in at that time, he was town. He should have been modkilled for that statement, but whatever.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm.

Anyone got questions for me or anything?

[Kmd4390]

Lunch? Like I have the money to eat...

Kast (formerly Zwet) is scum unless Crazy is.

[Kmd4390]

Thanks for putting up with me all the way to endgame.

[Kmd4390]

Llama being scum was seriously the most surprising thing in this entire game. What tipped you off exactly Kmd?

He wasn't playing to his town meta. I won't elaborate though on the off chance I can catch him the same way in the future. I think he's pretty aware of my perception of his play though.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD-
If saber had not claimed to be town in that other game, would you have trusted him in this one?

No. I actually didn't trust it until I saw him flipping town in all of his other games. Then I figured it wasn't a coincidence.

[Kmd4390]

Pablito, I realized, but didn't really use that for anything.