Mini 1012: Mafia In Soraville (Game Over!)
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No, the setup is closed. We don't know the possible roles in the game. However, the mod makes (or tries to make) a balanced setup - it's not like he just picks roles randomly. Roles randomly distributed means that the roles in the setup the mod has made were randomly given to players, if that makes sense.
PREVIEW: ARGH ninja'd by mod. I'll post it anyways.-
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I'm confused. So DemonHybrid falling for said trap is townie in your eyes, but me voting him for it is not?InflatablePie wrote:Vote: Friend
1) Player A claims mafia, setting a trap for someone to vote him.
2) Player B falls for it and votes Player A.
Anyone could see that's what Jack was doing. So technically, the one jumping on an easy target is, in fact, Friend: the person voting for Player B.
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Now's the time to mention to the other players that many of us know each other from another place. Hello Fugi, r2r, Demon, MvK and TL. And soras.
DemonHybrid apparently still took it somewhat seriously, though, take a look:
You wouldn't refer to a gambit like that as a "noobish mistake" if you understood what was going on.DemonHybrid wrote:Too much experience, too noobish of a mistake.
Here, Demon blatantly piggybacks after your defense of him, never mentioning me or my vote on him until you show up.DemonHybrid wrote:
See Pie's post. =PTheLonging wrote:Vote: Fugitive[/b[ This is not an RVS vote. He's really dangerous as scum. We should all keep an eye on him.
Also Jack's post was so obvious. If you think he's actually a traitor...
Friend's up there on the scum list at the moment despite it being too early, Jack's neutral until he says more.
Waiting for Friend's reply to Pie's post.
Don't like this one bit - talking about how Jack got us out of RVS is good.TheLonging wrote:Pie only went for Friend and not DH. I assume this is because Pie just jumped on a non-SH member (LOLBIAS)
Anyways this is retarded. Can we not talk about how Jack got us out of RVS? Any more discussion is useless, and those who pursue it (IE: DH) should be questioned further.
I rest my case Your Honor.
You're putting words into people's mouths. I don't think he was saying that at all.TheLonging wrote:He's saying that DH's normal meta would be to see how obvious Jack would be doing, so he voted for Friend instead. He never once considered DH voting Jack for the same reasons.
IP obviously won't say yes, it'll just make him look stupid.
But DH was jumping onto an easy target, so it's the same idea. I'm not sure quite what the difference here is.InflatablePie wrote:
This is getting confusing.ManfredvonKarma wrote:
So, you're fine with DH voting Jack, but not fine with Friend voting for DH using the exact logic that you gave for voting Friend?InflatablePie wrote:I figured DH would see how obvious Jack was being, so I didn't think of this. I see where you're coming from, but I think Friend is more opportunistic.
I don't find DH voting Jack scummy.
I find Friend jumping onto an easy target scummy.
It may be similar logic, but it has to do with timing as well.
That's what it felt like to me. I don't think Demon took it at face value, but rather acted like he did so he could throw the vote down.Haschel Cedricson wrote:EBOWP: The case on Friend is a good one too. I don't like his apparent assumption that the trap was intended for DH.-
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So what did you think Jack was pulling when you voted him if you weren't taking it seriously? Oh, and you keep talking about how your vote was all just a joke, but then this...DemonHybrid wrote:A: You really want to focus on the fact that I took my vote on Jack "seriously". I really wanted to see how far you'd take your argument on me, and wow, did you ever take it far. Of COURSE I know Jack posted that purposely, no one can be that stupid. In your eyes, you could be town seeing dumb-scum, yeah, but I really think that your seriousness of your vote on me really shines as scummy to me, especially since you took your defense to the extreme here. And it's a bit ironic that you mentioned the "noobish mistake" part...that was the peanut butter in the mouse-trap.
And this...DemonHybrid wrote:
It's weird, because he registered in 2006.Twomz wrote:Jack... that's like posting "Mod says I'm some kind of serial killer, I don't know what my alignment is, can y'all help?"...
Don't know if I should vote you or not... awaiting explanation.
I'll bite though.Who the hell asks about their own role on page two?
That doesn't exactly scream "non-serious vote" to me.DemonHybrid wrote:I still want Jack to talk though. Who the hell says something like that, in all honesty?
I don't have anything really to say to your other points - nothing worth mentioning is in there. A lot of that stuff seems like we were misunderstanding each other or it's not important to the subject at hand.
You and esurio turning suspicion onto fugitive, whose playstyle is blunt and concise, reads a little scummy to me too. Guys like that are easy for scum to point at and go "wah he's not explaining himself OMG how scummy" when really it's not.-
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So you purposely fell for his gambit as a gambit of your own? I'm sorry, but I don't believe that for a second. Now you're just covering your own ass.DemonHybrid wrote:A: lolseriousness. You're reading way into the prospect of me "taking it seriously" when I never did. I wanted to see who would suspect me the most while I fell for his gambit, and you're it, IMO.
I don't understand this - please elaborate more.DemonHybrid wrote:B: I should've screamed for more attention to my vote on Jack then, but I think that if I did that, I would've attracted town votes instead.
DemonHybrid wrote:C: Neither of us have talked about Fugitive's scumminess. I simply asked her whether or not she was suspecting him for withholding information. The only people who's scumminess I've elaborated on were yours and Jack's.
Heh.esuriospiritus in reference to Fugitive's play wrote:Hey, look, it's the same kind of thing I voted DH for. Why would you have information/an opinion that is not of the "hi, I'm a power role and x is town you can NK me nao" variety and withhold that information unless you are scum who is trying to suss out what is a "safe" opinion to have at this time?
Diverting attention away from yourself, I see...DemonHybrid wrote:Since I explained myself, why aren't you suspecting Fugitive more then, esurio?-
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That's a good thing, IMO. You're stretching now.DemonHybrid wrote:A little eager to start putting heat onto people.
IP didn't act like he was suspicious. If you actually, you know, read my post, you could have noticed that I wasn't suspecting Fugitive for anything.DemonHybrid wrote:You're feeling a little heated; time to turn the argument against someone else when no one was really talking about him that much (other than Pie, but you didn't mention him; just esurio and I). In fact, going by your logic, I'm surprised you're not pointing at least an eye at IP.
Pretty big mistype, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now and assume (OMG) that you were just skimming.DemonHybrid wrote:3rd point: *I've never talked about Fugitive's scumminess. The only people who's scumminess I've elaborated on....
If the arguments are poor, of course I'm going to defend myself against them. I'm not going to sit back and let you attack me without posting a response.DemonHybrid wrote:Preview Edit: Esurio: My point is, Friend seems to be jumping the gun a little bit as far as arguments concerning him goes. There's a difference between assumption when it concerns someone relevant to the conversation and assumption when someone isn't. (Nervousness can cause this.)
And yeah, I don't believe that you "fake-fell" for Jack's move for a second based on your posts afterwards. That vote was serious and you turning it into a "gambit" to cover your ass is scummy.
And congrats, Sora. I'm not good enough to get nukes :/-
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Nothing, really, but even a joke "OMG don't vote me" needs to be explained. It seemed nervous to me so I asked him about it.DemonHybrid wrote:A: It can be...however, it seems too forced in this case. What about his post made you think that he was legit scared to be OMGUS'd and not just joking?
How is turning suspicion onto you (who I've suspected all along) an attention-repellent?-
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How are any of those reads meta?TheLonging wrote:>Meta>Meta
>Meta
>Meta
>Meta
>Meta
0/10, good try though
Also, divert attention my ass, I'm listing my scum reads! Dohoho. You're calling me scum for all the wrong reasons. I'm now BWing shit, I'm only agreeing with myself, and I have no clue what fleeting means. Those 2 "scumtells" you listed aren't scumtells in actuality. I'll bite. How am I diverting attention away from me voting you by listing other scum reads? I didn't know we weren't supposed to give out scum reads, and only stick one at a time.
You're getting way overdefensive.
Enough for an:
UNVOTE: DemonHybrid
VOTE: TheLonging-
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HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT META.DemonHybrid wrote:I have a big feeling TheLonging is scum even more so than Pie. His vote is very fleeting, agreeable and bandwagony, as well as diverting attention away from his vote by focusing on Jack as well. Easy targeting.
@Twomz: I'm not sure if it's AtE, what TheLonging is doing. AtE is more like "you guys are gonna regret it if you lynch me" or "I'm town, that's all I can say, I guess you guys are just going to lynch me anyways." Stuff like that if you get the gist of it. TheLonging's not doing that - once one person calls him scum he's being way too quick to get angry about it.-
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I don't think so at all. Here's the post you were referring to:
I asked him about Kov. That was the answer he gave. Nothing about your meta, just about wanting to see if Kov would crack under the pressure, being an inexperienced player.DemonHybrid wrote:
I'd like to see if his inexperience shines through. I know TL and IP from past games...I'd much rather target the weak link.Friend wrote:Demon, you might as well admit now that you didn't try and make a gambit of your own by "falling" for Jack's gambit.
However, my feelings on you are sliightly improving.
Why did you pick Kov over your other scum picks?
This was his case against you:
Nowhere did he ever mention that you're playing against your town meta. Ever.TheLonging wrote:I have a big feeling TheLonging is scum even more so than Pie. His vote is very fleeting, agreeable and bandwagony, as well as diverting attention away from his vote by focusing on Jack as well. Easy targeting.
Therefore your response of "well that's meta and meta's useless" is completely unacceptable.-
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@r2r: So let's get this straight - you have a "bad feeling" about some players on the wagon, yet of the 4 of us, one you've labeled neutral but then still think he's scummy, you think I'm wagoning for good reasons, and you can't get a read on Jack or Fugitive.
You're making a broad statement but deliberately avoid having to take a stance on any particular player - you got close but you waffled on DH.
@Pie: Do you find what Jack and Fugitive are doing scummy inherently? Why or why not?-
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TL is acting like his claim is going to save him. As esurio said, not quite sure what to make of that - feels like a general null-tell though.
You're acting like scum NEVER do this, when, in fact, this isesurio wrote:I honestly don't know how anyone can be reading IP as scum right now. Go read him in iso. If there's one thing he's done, it's contribute original thoughts to cases on people (iso 0, iso 19). That generates the kind of information that would be anti-scum-win-condition (scum want town to end day 1 with as little information and reads as possible). He also gave his opinion on people without being prompted to (iso 29) when scum would want to keep their options as open as possible right now.exactlywhat good scum players do. It's not "against the scum wincon" - IMO, all a good scum player has to do is look pro-town. Whatever looking pro-town requires - lynching scum (bussing), giving town information - is what achieving the scum wincon is all about.-
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Some good 'ol fashioned FriendReads:
Town
ManfredvonKarma
Fugitive
DemonHybrid
Neutral
esuriospiritus
Jack
Haschel Cedricson
Kov
Scum
ready2rock
Twomz
TheLonging
InflatablePie
Basically in that order from towniest to scummiest. Don't tell me making town-lists is anti-town. It's not.
So I'd be okay with a lynch of any of those 4 at the bottom, preferably IP or TL. I can't get a read on Jack. Twomz feels like he's playing everything too safe and trying to blend in. Same with r2r. Kov I'm not quiiite sure on yet either - getting some scummy vibes, but I haven't really read over a lot of his posts thoroughly. I'm fairly confident about those town reads. DH "falling" for the gambit in the early game was a little scummy but our ensuing argument made me get a warm townie feeling in my heart. MvK has done nothing but be pro-town. Fugitive, while posting little, feels town. Esurio is playing similarly to the way she played in our previous game in which she was scum - that's the only thing that's got me a little sketched out about her. Other than that she's been okay. Haschel's been too lurky (not his fault, I guess) for me to get a read on and his early-game posts fell smack-dab in the middle for me in terms of scumminess. I believe I've talked about both IP and TL already.-
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Getting suspicious of Jack for what I consider purely playstyle. It's one of those "ooh look he's not contributing to discussion" suspicions even though heis.He's just being concise about it. And proposing a policy lynch, that's blatantly scummy. Jack hasn't done anything to deserve a policy lynch yet - his playstyle may be slightly anti-town but it's not worth lynching someone over.
Using meta to put fugitive on his scumlist. Doesn't sit right.
Somewhat of a shoddy case on TheLonging. A lot of those things you pointed out are big stretches - the RVS talk , the OMGUS FoS-ing (which it wasn't really), the bandwagoning (not a scumtell in and of itself). FTR I think Longing is scummy too but this case seemed thrown together.
Makes a big fuss over DH's mislynch talk, says that he it's not okay to say "no big deal" about mislynching townies D1. But weren't you the one who proposed a policy lynch of Jack? Seems like by the very definition of policy lynching you don't take into account the players' scumminess. This is contradictory - you risk Jack flipping town if you want a policy lynch.
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