Newbie 1055 (Game over)

[DavidParker]

First to post.

First to find scum.

Vote: Vinoth

[DavidParker]

Hi town (aka not Vinoth + the other scumbag who I haven't discovered yet), I'm David Parker.

A list of my games can be found here: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=DavidParker

I just put all those games up recently (and some kind soul edited it to make it in a more readable format), so feel free to use that as a reference for my mafia play style as town/scum although the way I play as both has greatly changed since I've joined this site. I still have some distinct play-style characteristics, I can be rude and sarcastic at times, and tend to draw a bit of negative attention towards myself especially as town (I've definitely been lynched a few too many times :/), some people seem to get me, but more don't get me; and then I get lynched

I'm one of your SE's. That just means I've played a few games (well more than a few in my case) and can help out to some extent with the learning process. Basically it just ensures this isn't 8 newbies blindly following their IC, as the IC does have a scum or town win-con as well. With that said, roles are entirely randomized and don't expect there to be at least one SE or IC as scum, it just means we're more likely to be more critical of each other.

Anyways, I suggest my fellow townies to get out your VOTE: tags and chuck Vinoth's name in there. If his scum buddy could please let him or herself be known as well that'd be great, and you guys can be passing your first (or second or whatever) newbie game in no time.

[DavidParker]

You have to close the tag. So you have a [/b] after the vote part.

Alternatively, instead of using bold tags (b), you can use vote tags.

Code: Select all

[Vote]Username[/vote]

Can be used to vote someone. In this case, just put Vinoth's name inbetween instead of "Username".

Like so:

VOTE: Vinoth



Preview edit: seems you figured it out. I'll leave the info here, in case you decide using VOTE: is easier.

[DavidParker]

I have a feeling I'm going to make someone cry this game.

[DavidParker]

What's with the misrep?

[DavidParker]

I posted a link to my wiki page with all my games earlier, you'll see some 30-40ish games on there.

I'm V/LA at times depending on when in the weak work is busy (usually thurs/friday, i work in a restaurant, then will get home and cbf playing mafia after 14 hour day)

My timezone is in australia too, so ill be posting at random times.

I am familiar with most MD topics and agree to avoid discussing them in any game, and will yell at people who do try to discuss them, so glad we agree on that Haylen, since it is a popular topic more so in non-newbie games than in newbie games even.

I thinK i have skim-read games and stuff, or I've fullyr ead games i've died in day/night 1. But yeah. I'm no complete newbie so me answering these questions is a bit futile.

Hi SxyBeast. Why aren't you voting Vinoth anymore?

[DavidParker]

Vote: David Parker

for wanting to make people cry... Only scum would do that.

What's with the misrep?

Unvote: DavidParker

. That's not why I voted for you.

Why did you vote for Vinoth so suddenly?

a. Either you're Mafia, and a not very smart SE, and you voted for him for a first lynch.
or
b. You just voted for him for fun; this Random Voting Stage, anyway.

I'm putting you back on the list unless you give me a reason for voting for him. In the meantime,

Vote: Vinoth

, which offers possibility:
c. We're both stupid Mafia Scum, and are voting just to get a quick lynch.

I don't like this exchange of words. (Actually I love it, but I'll get to that later)

You claim you are voting me for a reason. I say your reason is entirely wrong and a misrep because I never said that or said I wanted that. It's fairly scummy to misrep people, even early on in RVS there is no real town motive for it. You then turn around and say "that's not why I voted for you". LOLWOT? So you post a vote on me with a reason, then your next post after a shut down your reason you say oh that wasn't why I voted for you?!!?!? Are you high? This isn't 4th grade, you don't say "oh but it wasn't me" when you get caught.

You ask why I vote vinoth, then gives the answers yourself? Actually it's none of a. or b. I have a feeling it's option D. which is the same reason you just voted for Vinoth although your vote on vinoth was a good vote, you immediately vote-hopped afterwards ruining your good vote, and went after someone for just lurking, an easy target. Note: We go after lurkers towards end of day phases, not at start.

Now, here is why I love this exchange of words:

[quote="DP]If his scum buddy could please let him or herself be known as well that'd be great[/quote]

Thanks gapoc47157195819. You temporarily vote your scum buddy to distance yourself then unvote him a few posts later. Also you misrep me then pretend you weren't voting me for a reason you stated. Lying. I only ask that you go without creating a fuss scum.

[DavidParker]

I played my first game on the Guitar Hero Hub (Werewolf) in which I was scum and trolled the fuck out of it and lasted until 3-Player LYLO. I suspect if Olinea is reading this thread he will raeg at me, but yeah
I'm also in the top 30 on Epic Mafia for this round if that means anything

What is epic mafia? So you have quite a lot of experience off-site?

[DavidParker]

I'm the same. Well, I'll remember certain posts, but totally disagree with my own previous posts.

[DavidParker]

@gapoc, your vote was an RVS (ie not a serious vote), but at the same time it was a complete misrep. I did not say any such thing.

That's like me voting you for spending your spare time torturing ponies and unicorns. You only stated you dislike them. You never stated you torture them. You are stating something that has no grounds for being true. Even if it's not a serious vote, using misinformation and misrepresentations of players as a justification for votes is scummy, more so later in the game, when scum are likely to vote town by twisting their words or actions to make them seem scummy. There is no town-reasoning behind misrepresenting me, even in RVS.

[DavidParker]

MrBump I defend myself so that i the town doesnt waste a lynch on me. r u really saying that you dont defend urself cause that is bull

MrBump intends to play so flawlessly that he never needs to defend himself because there will be nothing to attack him for.

[DavidParker]

Caught our third scum it seems. Oh yes, I said third scum; I'd like to counter claim your role as the "un-votable, un-killable day kill cop" as that is my role. Perhaps the mod did mess up to include it in the game; but two of them... unlikely.

Your Claim has revealed you for what you are!

[DavidParker]

Okay. Time to play serious.

1) just how old are you gapoc? I'm curious and I do find it somewhat relevant.
2) It doesn't make you automatically scum, but at this point it is one of the scummiest things to have happened so far and definitely worthy of attention, since most of the rest of this game has been fluff fluff fluff with only some interesting posts by SxyBeast at times who has a strange way of playing. Possibly also a 4th grader I reckon.
3) Seeing as I'm entering serious/out-of-rvs mode.

Unvote, Vote: gapoc

[DavidParker]

@TheBump: The problem with leaving RVS right now is that there are 4 players who haven't even posted yet (I'm including Doros in this), and that's kind of slowing down the games progress. You can't just "leave" RVS because you feel like it. It's something that has to happen, because someone does something to gather reactions, and people react and someone points out something they find legitimately scummy and so on. As it is now, no one really wants to make a stance on anything, and to be fair, there isn't much to go on. You've stated how you think Sxy is being overly defensive, and I've stated how Gapoc's misrep is minorly scummy. That's all there is. I mean there could easily be more but noone is choosing to make mountains out of molehills yet, and that's how games leave RVS.

As it stands, Doros coming in saying he/she would catch up and post and doing nothing of the sort seems to me like minor-lurking. There was nothing to catch up on. Doros should have come in, seen a bunch of random meaningless votes, commented on one or two she didn't like, or a reaction she didn't like, and throw down a random vote of her own. (I'm assuming the name Doros belongs to a girl, correct me if i'm wrong). Instead she lurked. The other 3 players haven't even seen the game yet, so that's more "excusable" in a sense that going after them is futile as it's more than likely they have forgotten about the game or been too busy to come on to devote 5 minuets. Doros obviously knew of the game and had a few minutes to spare but posted nothing. That is minorly scummy as well.

As it stands, both Doros and gapoc are guilty of minorly scummy infractions although nothing I consider sure signs of having found scum yet. Although, something to start on.

So I'm happy to vote for gapoc semi-seriously now.

[DavidParker]

To respond, since I didn't in my last post, you ninja'd me:

I'm one of your SE's. That just means I've played a few games (well more than a few in my case) and can help out to some extent with the learning process. Basically it just ensures this isn't 8 newbies blindly following their IC, as the IC does have a scum or town win-con as well. With that said, roles are entirely randomized and don't expect there to be at least one SE or IC as scum, it just means we're more likely to be more critical of each other.

There. It's entirely randomized. 2/3 * 5/8 = 5/12 chance that both scum are newbies. Don't assume there is an "experienced" player as scum, that is not the case.

[DavidParker]

This game is painful to be apart of almost... I hope the 3 players who haven't posted yet are less

unique

1) No need to do votecounts, mod will generally do one each day, just be aware of where votes are, and if your vote puts someone at L-1 or L-2 you should probably state it.
2) While I'm not going to explicitly state we are in RVS right now, the game is kinda stale.

@Haylen: is rolefishing really a scum tell? Especially when done so obviously (not to mention it was a joke).

[DavidParker]

Wait, you're calling me town because of my post saying I would make someone cry??? What the heck.

[DavidParker]

That is not the correct way to respond to being put at L-2. (You are now L-1)

Please try again.


I suggest you browse over some other newbie games to see where you are going wrong.

[DavidParker]

@stefunny: You claim his play is a ploy to gets votes of him... don't you think it would have been more likely that he would have claimed cop or doctor than VT if he was scum and "pretending" to give up?

Also, I'd strongly advise against hammering considering we have 3 people who haven't posted.

I'll

unvote

for now.

i don't consider gapoc's self vote as scummy as others do, in fact i don't find it very scummy from a newbie, more of a null-tell at this point.


PREVIEW EDIT:
People aren't being nasty, mafia in itself is a "Heated" game, if you can't handle the pressure and being accused and attacked for stuff (even as town) it's not a game for you. Seeing as this is your "first" game, i'd consider your actions more town-telling than scum-telling. At least your recent reactions. You are displaying every newbie tell in the book (these tells are "scummy" but when seen in newbie games don't really become as reliable for finding scum)

Here is what you want to avoid for future games:

I voted for you because you were SE, and because you were inactive

Two bad reasons for a vote early on. As a RVS that's somewhat okay, and i wasn't too opposed to this vote. Just don't try justify it as a "serious" vote. The reasoning behind it is too poor.

and am happy (well not really, since now I'll be innocently lynched

Appeal to emotion. (ATE). It's bad. And considered a slight scum tell. But it's really common from newbies who get pressured and don't understand why (especially as town).

I might as well resign, because I want to see how the mafia reacts to this (who they kill, why, etc.) and hopefully can do better in another game.

No, you might as well not. If you are town, you should be playing to your win condition. (same as scum too). That involves not giving up. Fight back, argue as to why you are town. DO BETTER IN THIS GAME. NOT YOUR NEXT GAME.

Your second paragraph on Haylen is good. Keep more coming. That's all you need to do, is post your opinions, even if you don't think they are likely to be right, post YOUR OPINIONS, not OTHER PEOPLES.

No idiot would be stupid enough to draw as much attention to himself as I am doing now...

This is WIFOM. (Search for it on wiki if you don't know what that means). Avoid WIFOM in general.

Your last paragraph is bad. IT's a bunch of ATE and WIFOM. No one hates you obviously..


So..

As for newbie scum tells in your last few posts when you've given up: (more directed at other people than gapoc)

I may be new, but I hope you don't actually think I'd be stupid enough to put myself at L-1 if I were mafia. Losing a mafia goon on D-1 is pretty much an automatic loss for them. Besides, I wouldn't be nearly as active if I were mafia. No idiot would be stupid enough to draw as much attention to himself as I am doing now...

This ATE seems to be trying to get people to unvote.. Suggests he may not have given up quite yet and it is a "ploy". Him drawing attention to himself wasn't even intentional. It was just his poor and inexperienced way of dealing with pressure.

I'm not ready to roleclaim, because (of course!), no one would believe me, but, eh, you win some, you lose some!

LOLWOT? Didn't you already soft-claim in your previous post? Hmm. Tempted to leave my vote here...

PREVIEW EDIT 2: Hi MrBump. I think I actually did make someone cry :/

[DavidParker]

Vote: Gapoc

Because, while his reaction to being put at L-2, and his self-vote to L-1 weren't the scumiest, there was definitely some material in his post that could be scum. Also I had no intention of letting gapoc "start over", I just didn't feel having him at L-1 that early was beneficial to town or gapoc's willingness to play.

@Doros:

Busy...busy...busy. Sorry, I have kept some of you waiting. Anyways, back to the important things.

Can you all answer these please!

[/quote

Ugh so, you finally make a post in this thread and all you answer is some random questions. Those questions are not even relevant to alignments in this specific game nor will they be particularly useful in finding scum.. What made you think they were important? I'd much rather you have responded and analysed/discussed everything else going on (namely the "gapoc" incident and possibly some comments on mrbump /myselfs alignments/intentions as there was a lot from both of us so far.

Haylen, be patient, this isn't your first newbie game, you really shouldnt get upset by what they say this early on. They don't know how games work. I remember coming from a site where game-days lasted 1 real life day, and expected mass activity. Similarly the maturity level in this specific game doesn't seem to be the highest but there's no reason to get "angry" ;/

[DavidParker]

First of all, I am 12, so I obviously have more time on my hands than you people, who are mostly adults. I heard about Mafia on AoPS, a math forum where there are much more kids then there are here. I do not keep in mind that adults have better things to do than sit at the computer all day, reloading http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=150 every few minutes... I called out for AtE just because DP had warned me just minutes before never to AtE!!!

You should never use AtE in your arguments or defenses. However, what you did was accuse our IC of being a bad IC for not being as active as you would like. For one thing she stated she would be unavailable to post lots over the weekend, and she hasn't been that inactive. Your reasons for finding her scummy is largely based on her being an IC and you not believing she is playing that role correctly. (I think I was in a game that Haylen was modding when I attacked the IC for being bad.. it doesn't really help you or anyone, just wait til after game to discuss it if you feel it is an issue). Her "emotion" wasn't so much AtE, because she wasn't appealing to anything or trying to get people to stop voting for her by using emotion, it was non-game related and just her being frustrated.

[DavidParker]

Who do you think out of us "not getting along", comes off as most likely to be scum between the 3 of us and why?

[DavidParker]

I'm actually taking into account his maturity and age when analyzing him, which is probably working in his favor, but definitely still worthy of vote, I wouldn't say he's "too scummy to be allowed to live" yet. Gapoc is blindly following other players largely and that's not too uncommon or unexpected given the circumstances of this being a nebwie game and his inexperience.

I just greatly dislike the WIFOM he used which did come of us as scummy whereas the ATE was more townish given him being a newbie.

[DavidParker]

Can u guys stop following my voting patterns? have some originality please...

[DavidParker]

I was never giving him a "second chance". Just I wasn't ready for a lynch when he self-voted to L-1. And there is definitely a town-gapoc argument, just it's not as strong as scum-gapoc argument at this point. There's also a scum-mrbump argument that I am currently warming to as well.

But it's really too hard to accomplish too much with current activity levels.

@mod:

time for 2 replacements? or have they responded to pros?

[DavidParker]

There names are crossed out because their player slots were replaced by new players due to not responding to their pm's or something. Each day phase lasts 3 weeks or something (or maybe just day 1, then 2 weeks after that), it says in game-info post at start of the game. The mod will write a lynch-scene when a player is lynched, and then lock the thread, mafia decide who to kill secretly, mod reopens the thread stating who mafia killed.

You'll noticed no one is voting you any more

[DavidParker]

Unvote, Vote: Doros

For his/her last 3 posts.

(P.s. are you a guy or girl?)

[DavidParker]

Confirm Vote: Doros

For its last 4 posts.

(I'm just going to call you it from now on then)

P.s. this is sarcastic/asshole David.

[DavidParker]

Doros, the way this game works is we catch scum. This isn't E-Harmony; you aren't here to meet people, make friends, or possible partners. You seem to be only interested in pleasantries and chit-chat and it's annoying and down right scummy at times.

[DavidParker]

Thanks for letting us know who you are DavidParker. So you are going to keep following me around now, huh? I was surprised you didn't noticed the post about Haylen being sick. We might need a new IC if she needs more time to recover.

Ugh. What? I didn't notice it???? Says who? It wasn't worth commenting on. Oh you want me to post some sympathetic thoughts in her direction? As I said, we are here to play a game of mafia, not chit-chat away. You are on the wrong side if that's what you intended to do. Haylen as merely posting a reason for her absence (in a way that makes it somewhat more believable), I read it and that was that. Stop worrying about the state of our IC and actually work on catching scum.

re-re-re-reconfirm Vote: Doros

For however many more bad posts you've made.

[DavidParker]

You guys are all so scummy that this game is becoming awfully difficult..

Vittorio is town. Rest of you are scummy as hell.

[DavidParker]

Dear Vinoth, do you plan on posting again, or does the 2-3 month game scare you?

@Bump: I'm leaning that way, but we'll see.

[DavidParker]

Bump, the reason I'm not voting gapoc right now or anymore (and largely why you think i'm quite possibly scum with him, for semi defending him and pushing other wagons), is because its day 1 and there are still 3-4 people who haven't really posted anything. We can't have a lynch day 1 with only 1 wagon and no other information. If that wagon flips town, we are back to square one come day 2 and have no leads really. I definitely have the idea in my mind of switching back to a gapoc wagon come near-deadling, but for now I think it better to explore other pathways. I'm glad gapoc wasn't quicklynched when he selfvoted, i wasn't glad that he was suddenly on 0 votes.

[DavidParker]

So is your vote based on the fact that someone might be lying about their age on the internet? What do you think would be his motivation for lying about being 12? How do you think that would affect other players in the game?

LOL, no, I am not that naive to worry about someone lying on the internet. Gapoc just gives off a bad vibe and I find the constant references to his age odd. He might be lying about his age, he might not be. By often stating his age, 12, he may be gunning for sympathy.

That 'ooh-look-at-me-only-12-playing-my-first-mafia-game' tone of his posts may be smokescreen.

@David, I shivered when you stated without a doubt that I am town. At this point, I am the only one who can state with utmost certainty that I am town. You're giving off a whiff there. Only scum knows with certainty who the townies are. Are you scum playing a long con? Are you trying to taint me by association? And so, should you be brought down at some point, you hope the town will turn on me, a townie, and so improve the odds for your scumbucket buddies?

Merely my play/posting style in claiming people are definitely town when I get a town read on them. (Also not explaining why town read, as that just lets other people in on why they are town this early on, and I can't have scum figuring out how to seem town, now can I?).

I can link you to countless other games where I've done similar posts claiming someone is town.

[DavidParker]

@mod

: Requesting prod on Vinoth.

[DavidParker]

Well, I imagine he may have flaked after his most recent post, but he does get a prod first ;/

[DavidParker]

On a serious note, stop looking for scum pairings on day 1 when we haven't seen a single flip yet. Added to it is the fact we haven't had any real content from 2 players in this game, so how can you be making scum pairings already? Focus on scum hunting individuals for now.

Also, you want my opinion on your scum list gapoc? It is a cop-out.

[DavidParker]

24 hours I think?

Who knows. I'm 95% sure he flaked. He's left the site.

[DavidParker]

MrBump, if you are so sure that Gapoc is Mafia, can you explain why you are averse to lynching the two of you?

If you are indeed a townsperson, lynching 2 people, including 1 Mafia, leaves the game with 1 Mafia and 4 Townspeople, which is a good chance of win for the Townspeople. And the only way to make sure is to lynch the both of you. To me it is equally likely that Gapoc may just be an immature, rude but innocent townsperson, while MrBump is the real culprit ... so if we lynch one of you I suggest the other as well.

Unless has any better ideas...? I'm perfectly fine with lynching someone else other than MrBump/Gapoc, as long as we have good evidence in their favour...

Bad.

Somehow, I've come back to my idea that Vinoth may be scum. And Gapoc does seem like a likely partner. Who knows, maybe my page 4 or % whatever it was claim that Vinoth was def scum (on page 1 or whatever) then finding gapoc as his partner not long after was right.

[DavidParker]

@MrBump, I can understand why you feel I'm buddies with gapoc based on the actual happenings, ie: I was the one who potentially put pressure on him early to distance myself, then I was the one who derailed his wagon to potentially save him, and now I'm pushing a wagon on someone else..

But do you actual feel my back-and-forth's with gapoc at times indicates any scum partnership between us?

I'm biased obviously, and looking at this situation from an involved-POV, but I just don't see how some of our exchanges can be viewed of scum talking with their only scum buddy. I do agree, that if gapoc flipped scum you can definitely see me derailing his wagon (well i started the derailing, i was actually SHOCKED by how quickly EVERYONE followed suit, and people wanted to give gapoc a "Clean slate"> that was not my intention, i didn't want a quick lynch; that's why i revoted gapoc shortly after). Anyways, at this point it's time to:

Unvote, Vote gapoc

The alternative is a vote on Haylen/Stef for being lurk-tastic and not contributing a huge amount or doing a whole lot, but Haylen I'd like to believe as an IC has been legitimately sick and busy, and Stef, well I have no experience with Stef (maybe one game with him/her but cant remember it at all and i think i died early/game ended quick), so don't know what to think there at this point, but she/he's definitely the scummier of the two, but there doesn't seem to be much purpose or usefulness behind a vote there at this point.

Although I suppose a vinoth wagon could be worthwhile, but i'm getting plenty of info (mostly indicating to him being scum) without even having to vote him. Bandwagoning gapoc has proven to be fruitful

[DavidParker]

Haylen promised a big wall post.

[sarcasm]I'm eagerly awaiting it [/sarcasm]

Something is prob coming soon. There seems to be a few players who when they are active want to post 3-4 times in a few hour span, most games work here by having constructive posts followed by response, etc etc. Not short-timed, unthought out/spontaneous back-and-forths (although I do love those, and that's more or less how i started playing mafia, it's just not how this site operates). While posting only 1 big constructive post every 1-2 days definitely isn't helping town much, it is something that is generally accepted as "normal" play, and often player real-life scheduldes (ie: lots of people work/are busy, they aren't 12 year old school kids or whatever with all the free time in the world) only permit this. And if noone is online when you are, it makes more sense to make your post that may not be responded to for a while more substantial. Not to mention, you don't know when players will respond so there's not much point directing a quick question at someone hoping they will respond shortly and you can get a debate going as it just won't work. Online-mafia gaming really is stuck to this style of play with limited posts that need to be content-heavy, due to timezones/player business etc.

[DavidParker]

No surprise there. Gapoc managed to give himself away at various points.

[DavidParker]

And yeah; day will end soon Sxy. Just have to wait for mod to post scene.

We can keep taking until then.

[DavidParker]

gapoc claimed scum u clown

[DavidParker]

okay i thought you were about to play the "who knows he might be town doing it" card, and was gonna rage at you. Thank god you didn't.

[DavidParker]

There's a general rule people need to follow:

Ignore everything scum say once they are caught.
Go back over what they said/who they accused/who they defended when they didn't know they were caught/going to be lynched.

[DavidParker]

You shouldn't WANT to be a bad player. You did however slip up that your partner is either a he, or you believe him to be a he, which narrows it down quite a bit. I wouldnt advise self-hammering or self-voting as any role to be honest. I have to go to work now.

Interesting point to bring up... I'm firmly of the opinion that we should ignore what "caught-scum" say. It's definitely a possibility that he was leaving a subtle hint about his partner for town to find in the hopes they would say it's a slip (or his "girl" partner points it out).

At this point the supposed "males" of the group would be myself/Vittorio/MrBump. I'm not sure what Doros' gender is.

Regardless, I didn't actually notice the "he" gapoc used, and the fact it's now been brought to my attention is really pissing me off because it's making me second guess myself/gapoc's intentions/ignore my actual scum hunting and use what gapoc left us. Even if I say to ignore caught scum, I'll still be asking if he actually messed up there (he did try to make it seem genuine, if it was a trick it's pretty impressive, especially for a 12 year old or whatever he was)

Anyways, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Vittorio is town. I can understand his suspicions of mine, and a lot of my responses have been lacking at times, but simply put, this game and the players haven't required me to actively try to appear super-town. I've stated my honest opinions throughout and how I believe the game should be played and seems to have worked so far. (I'll also have you know it was me who first caught scum-gapoc with his lie/scum-slip early!)

Anyways onto real stuff:

@Vittorio: Conspired to sacrifice gapoc?? For one thing, scum don't have day-talk during newbie games as far as I know. I've never seen it allowed/used. It's definitely NOT a good scum strategy to sacrifice your buddy on day 1. Bussing them if you have to or see an town-like opportunity to do so maybe, but planning on it before day is not wise. I was actually the first person to serious-vote gapoc when he blatantly lied. It was by far the scummiest thing at that point in the game so yes I did go onto him strongly.

@MrBump: I agree I probably found him slightly the scummiest going into night phase. The fact you bring it up as a red herring is fishy though.

The most suspicious thing about David atm is how he first went with the Gapoc vote and when he was in danger of being hammered he immediately unvoted. I know he had a reason for it, but something seems fishy.

There was a lot of town reasons to unvote him at that point. He had just self-voted to put himself at L-1 very early on. In newbie games a quick hammer is somewhat common and I didn't want gapoc to be self-voting and giving up like he was. (Although it's clear he was trying to get votes off himself with his self-vote in hind-sight now). As an SE I still am somewhat responsible for the learning process, so I did take it upon myself to try aid gapoc in that situation into how to improve his situation and play to his win-con.

You want to know what's REALLY FISHY. That everyone on gapoc's wagon UNVOTED after I unvoted him. He went to 0 or 1 votes almost right away. That's what was most fishy. It's like the scum who was possibly bussing him early on, saw a way to get off the wagon when I did, and did so. I re-voted gapoc very quickly because the way everyone unvoted. Gapoc was the scummiest player in the game; Even when I unvoted him. It was just me playing my role as an SE and because even not as an SE I wasn't ready for day to end, I unvoted. The scummier unvotes were those who unvoted after me.

Hence,

MAJOR FOS: MrBump

for being a guy,

LESS MAJOR FOS: Stefunny

for not being a guy. Sigh. Although, by play alone, MrBump is far less likely to be scum buddies with gapoc.

@MrBump: How is my unvote of gapoc scummier than your one??? Your unvote put the scummiest player in the game (an opinion you seemed to share) at ZERO VOTES. How is that not scummy? And my unvote at L-1 on page 5 is scummy?

[DavidParker]

This post he used "him" to describe his scum buddy in his self-quote.

I apologize to my partner and would like to apologize to him for doing this.

Another interesting quote:

If I were a townie, I would vote Vinoth next. He really has no use in the game, and mafia isn't going to waste a kill on him... So I guess that just means I just told everyone he is not mafia, which means that it's just a ploy to draw attention away (somehow), and that he is mafia, etc...

At this point he was caught, however mafia did end up killing vinoth.

Anyways, I'm not going to speculate too much into night-kill speculation, it's a pile of WIFOM, and gapoc saying "him", i'll *TRY* to ignore. I'm going to focus on his posts before he was caught.

[DavidParker]

Huh? Because Stefunny ALSO unvoted gapoc. Also there was a bit of distancing there. gapoc voting for stefunny for not posting at all, (ie: he could easily unvote when she came back), and stefunny hopping on the wagon like I would probably expect experienced-scumplayer to do because gapoc was pretty obv-scum, but then hopping off the wagon so easily when me+gapoc unvoted.


How is using the him slip ridiculous? I hate that it's there, but the fact it is it should be brought up. Gapoc used it in such a way (in a draft post even) that made it seem completely unintentional. If it's a trick it's a clever/thought-out one, that he had to rely on someone picking up on, and something I wouldnt expect from someone of his experience. Hence, why while I hate to have to take something like that into consideration, I am now doing so in finding scum. Yeah, I don't want to and try to avoid looking into what caught scum say, but the "him" he used was a possible-SLIP, not something content-wise he said (ie, gapoc saying we should lynch vinoth next, that is something to ignore), but accidentally (or perhaps accdidentally) using a pronoun is something that is less likely to be a misleading clue.


My unvote was not scummy MrBump.

Also, playing the newbie card is ridiculous.

Vote: MrBump

Preview edit: You don't have to justify your actions until I make accusation against them so don't worry.

[DavidParker]

Based on the way I've interpreted gapoc's play/maturity/skill throughout this game I say it's more likely to be an accidental slip, than a trap he left for us. I'd say about 80% sure of this.

[DavidParker]

Stef's iso is very unimpressive, and the situational-timing of her posts really does not favor her position very well.

@Vitt: EH. The tone of that (ie: not commiting to anything, just posting random fluff/WIFOM) is kinda scummy but it does seem to be somewhat representative of bump's play as a whole. What do you see in that quote in particular?

[DavidParker]

Oh I agree it's horrible, but it does seem somewhat representative of his posting style at times. Although that particular post is probably one of his worse.

@MrBump: Explain what? Your defense right now consists of: "HOW CAN I BE SCUM BECAUSE I VOTED FOR GAPOC ON DAY 1 AND BECAUSE I AM USING ALL CAPS AND ACTING OUTRAGED". That's not a defense. You don't defend yourself or make counter-points. You just make points not quite pertaining to what your being accused of but you can use to make yourself look innocent.

For example, I'm saying your unvote of gapoc was MUCH scummier than my unvote. You have yet to really try justify your unvote. Why did gapoc deserve a clean slate? At no point did I say he deserved a clean slate or that we should "start over" with him. Even if someone had said that we should start over, why would you just go along with them? You should have attacked the hell out of them for defending gapoc and suggesting we ignore everything he's done. Oh wait, you did just that, suggest we give gapoc a clean slate (well agree to some extent). HE DIDNT DESERVE ONE. My unvote wasn't to give him a clean slate or to let him start again. You stated that your unvote was. THAT IS SCUMMY. It is also scummy that you were hopping off the wagon of the scummiest person in the game who you even agreed was the scummiest person in the game WHEN HE ONLY HAD ONE VOTE. That makes no sense. WHat makes sense is my unvoting gapoc because he self-voted to L-1 on page 5. I wasn't convinced he was scum although I was strongly believing he was, and knew he was by far the scummiest player in the game, but I wanted more time to look at it. Also, the SE in me wanted to help gapoc regardless of his alignment and stop him from self-voting and giving up. What also makes sense is my revote, GAPOC WAS SUDDENLY ON ZERO VOTES.. I ask myself how the hell can that happen to the scummiest player in a matter of hours? Oh, he's probably scum, and his buddy hopped off the wagon and helped derail it. You then quickly hop back onto it.

Sticking to the topic of defending yourself to the actual attacks made, you play the newbie card. "I make mistakes, i'm a newb", suggesting that my scummy unvote (which wasn't even scummy) can't be seen as a mistake because i'm not a newb. That's not a defense.


Here, I'll address your post (something you don't seem capable of doing to my posts, you only seem to be able to make random outbursts in all caps about how town you are for voting gapoc, when the timing of your votes on him/unvotes could easily see you as bussing scum):

You SAID YOURSELF that planning to sacrifice Mafia D1 was stupid.

Key word: planning. Obviously no one (well very unlikely) plans to bus their partner into getting lynched day 1. But once day starts and your partner is acting scummy as hell, even if no one in the game has picked up on it yet, it makes perfect sense to vote them or throw accusation their way. That's how you play scum. Not to mention there was already strong accusations against gapoc, you weren't doing any scum hunting of your own, you were hopping on the wagon. Sure you stuck to your guns, but you can still be bussing.

YOu know what, i'd buy the "i'm town because i wouldn't bus my scum buddy day 1" card if you hadn't unvoted gapoc when you did. That unvote was just horrible. If you had stayed voting him throughout the whole ordeal, i'd almostly definitly believe you to be town at this point.



PREVIEW EDIT: Major LOL. "Single-handedly killed Gapoc". You definitely are greatly mis-repping the happenings of yesterday. I hate stating how I'm town at times, but in light of you trying to take credit for the gapoc wagon: I started the gapoc wagon initially. Well the serious gapoc-wagon. you voted him for not having an avatar. You left your vote there stating you didn't think anyone was scummy, not even gapoc that much. I was the first one to post genuine suspicions of gapoc. Then, I revived the gapoc wagon when it got to 0 votes (somehow). You then vote him was after my voting him.

[DavidParker]

First to correct a few things:
Sxy wasn't on the wagon the first time Gapoc got to L-1, the wagon consisted of you/me/Stef/Gapoc. I unvoted followed by gapoc then Stef then you. I then revoted him followed by you, and then Vittorio/Sxy finally gapoc self-hammering. (In the middle I pressured Doros with a vote before going back to the gapoc wagon)


Current scum list:

Vittorio: Top of my town list probably. I see a lot indicating to me he is town from even his first few one-liner-ish posts.
SxyBeast: Some genuine town-like posts at time, she didn't unvote gapoc as you claimed, she wasn't on the wagon when he first got to L-1. Also she is the last person I would expect to night-kill Vinoth.
Doros: Oh dear. A quick re-read of Doros yells scum.

Before I go any further,

Unvote, Vote: Doros

Stef: Slight scum read, partly due to aiding in gapocs wagon being derailed, lurking a lot, posts like this

I'm going to Vote: SxyBeast. I don't think gapoc is necessarily the most scummy, I just think he is more active than others I find to be scummy. I have a feeling our scum may be quiet...

make me wonder.

Haylen: Zero read. Would love to be a cop just because of this slot... But, probably town because I have 2-3 other scum reads. Legitimately busy/sick at times it seems.
MrBump: I'm back and forth at the moment. A lot of what makes him scummy is situation and timing... Something that town players can unfortunately come across at times (ie: when they decide to change their reads or bandwagon a player, and a flip can make a town player look really scummy depending on when he moved his vote where etc and what he's said). On his own, he hasn't been super scummy, definitely some very vague/non-committal posts but that seems to be apart of his "style"


Oh right, I didn't say anything more on Doros:

Doros, on her own merits (ie: not in the context of gapoc's scum buddy):
HUGE case here. Absolutely nothing in her posts. States she doesn't know how to scum hunt. Asks how to scum hunt. The wiki's been posted, numerous games are there for browsing, I mean you just seem to fence-sit and ask people what to do all game. Even when its explained she just keeps questioning what she should be doing. It just doesn't seem like town. Even super-newbie-town don't play like this. Seems more like newbie-scum just deciding to play the "HUGE NEWBIE" card and hope it helps them.

Doros, as gapoc's scum partner:
There is ZERO comments from Doros on gapoc once the game actually starts. Their start-game interactions don't really seem strongly like scum-buddy interactions... Ie: Scum pointing out their buddy is online but not posting, but still plausible. Gapoc did unvote right away. However, once gapoc gets under real pressure, doros just starts posting questions about how she should be scum hunting (HINT: TALKING ABOUT GAPOC AND YOUR OPINION ON HIM WOULD BE A GOOD START). Doros also no comment when I ask her who of the 3 of us (me/bump/gapoc) is most scummy in our interactions. "oh its too early"


I have yet to see a single read from Doros.

Also, for the sake of curiosity and now that it's actually game-relevant, what is your gender Doros? Funnily enough the gender issue had been brought up pre-Gapoc's gender-slip, so I'm becoming less convinced it was a slip.

[DavidParker]

As you can see I've never used a spoiler tag in my life.

[DavidParker]

There's nothing wrong with bandwagoning scum.

[DavidParker]

I have just skimmed the last few posts, and after 4 (maybe 5?) beers after work I'm not in a perfect state, but I'd like to just post, because there's so much hilarity going on.

1) Vinoth was the person I was going to be voting today. He was my #1 pick for Gapoc's buddy, and definitely somoene i found scummy even if gapoc flipped town. Gapoc revealed him as town?? Are you joking??? He did no such thing. Vinoth appeared most likely to be gapoc's buddy to me, so i'm rather glad he was night killed personally. Vinoth would have been an EASY lynch to push for today, and one I was planning on initially pushing for if he was still alive.
2) Since when was I good scum??? Re: "Also good scum tends to keep around people who they think they can get lynched or who cause controversy. Vinoth really doesn't fit either of those categories.". I've won one in maybe 6 or 7 games as scum on this site...
3) "David asked a few times for people not to follow his votes, which I kind of find as odd. It honestly felt like "I'm voting for gapoc, but please find some originality and vote for somebody else" because he didn't really WANT gapoc to be lynched. Then there was the coaching."... Umm, it's called being an SE. I was telling people to scum hunt, rather than repsond to all my posts with "i agree or david makes a goood point, or *vote person who david just voted*". It's annoying. I don't mind band wagoning a case you agree on but doing only that and just adding nothing was what a number of players were doing. Hint: It was coaching, but it was town coaching a player of unknown alignment. If he was town I wanted him scum hunting (And as an SE it's my job to help teach), so I was trying to push him in the right direction, regardless of his alignment.

@Stef: I have no intention of calling OMGUS, with Vinoth killed and Gapoc throwing in the "him" to describe his scum buddy I fully expected a case to be made against me from either yourself or Haylen. There was a case waiting to be made that wasn't hard to make. So I'm not surprised. But I will state I know I'm not the lynch for today, and highly doubt I will be lynched.

My read on Vittorio is mostly gut, but he has laid down some strong town-tells:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2749790 : VS's first *real* post. He makes a strong point against gapoc, and is the first of the newbie to actually post some original content, and an opinion that is their own. The fact it was against scum-flip wins him town points. Also he did all this in his first post.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p2749920 : This post was when I Decided VS is town. I mean he's making a weak point against Doros, and it's not a point that even makes Doros scummy. But he brings up a point that scum wouldn't even think of making. WHen scum are trying to fake-scumhunt they aren't going to be looking at syntax the way VS just did here. The fact he posted regarding something Doros has said that was very minimal, but showed STRONG town-thought behind it. I don't see how scum could make a post like this one here. I mean it's not that he made a good case or accusation vs Doros, it's just the line of thought is only one I see town coming to. (It was in response to this post that I claimed VS was definitely town).

I'll stop there, because that pretty much sums up VS-town.

@Stef: you seem to imply I have only "coached" gapoc. My reconfirming of my vote on Doros was actually my coaching him/her to do some of her own scum hunting and stop fence-sitting and doing nothing. So when Doros flips scum, I guess that makes me the third scum for having coached him/her as well? I mean coaching both scum for playing badly makes me scum??? This is a newbie game you are forgetting. I am coaching people to help them. Both people I have coached is because they have played bad/scummily. That is why I have tried to coach them. It doesn't mean I still don't think of them as scum WHILE I am coaching them (thats why I was still voted gapoc despite the coaching, I still figured he was scum)


@Anyone with a brain: How is anything Doros has done been pro-town in any way? He/She has posted one liners constantly, only sheeped players, hasn't even tried to scum hunt. I Re-confirmed my vote on her like 3-4 times because I was voting her (i'm just gonna use her) for fence-sitting and not scum-hunting, she didnt even try after I voted her, so i re-iterated my point.

She has begun day 2 by sheeping Stef (a reasonable thing to do if she actually genuinely believed I was scummy), but she doens't even mind me scummy, she states "stef brings up a good point on david, so ill vote david"... Okay... That sounds believeable... not.

@Mrbump/Doros: Of course I didn't manipulate anything, I just didnt quote an entire post because a lot of the post was irrelevant to my point and would just waste space. I didn't manipulate your post to twist your words at all though.

@Mrbump: once again, my reconfirming my vote, was my way of coaching/pointing out that despite my voting Doros and telling her to scum hunt and actually play the game she stopped doing it. That doesn't make me 100% sure she was scum. It just means her response to my vote sucked and I wanted to let her know that.

I switched my vote and case from you to Doros? So what. I'm town, I don't know for sure who the last scum is. I'd say it's one of you two, but I'm not even sure of that. of course I'm going to change my mind at times. Right now I'm pretty sure it's Doros, but I'm still keeping an eye on Haylen as well.

[DavidParker]

Oh my bad, forgot to address that. The Blacked out text was my attempt to use a spoiler tag. I had no idea how they work, I was hoping to put the quote in a spoiler drop down menu sorta thing I have seen other people use, so that my sentence made sense. I inserted a quote into the middle of a sentence, so I didn't want the quote to stand out (hence the spoiler tags on it, but they failed).

It was just a syntactical thing.

You'll notice a single black line before the quote, because the quote is meant to be the spiler'd part. I put the close tag in the wrong place. ANd quotes can't be spoilered the way I did it. Although there is a way other people do it :/

Spoiler: This post makes me wonder

I'm going to Vote: SxyBeast. I don't think gapoc is necessarily the most scummy, I just think he is more active than others I find to be scummy. I have a feeling our scum may be quiet...

is kinda what i was aiming at.

@Vittorio: no comment on Doros? have you seen what he has posted? (You can go to bottom of page, click "Display posts by User", go to Doros's name and it shows only his posts. You'll find a bunch nothing.


@Doros: Why do you keep ignoring my question? It's funny because before it was somewhat irrelevant and more to help me play the game more comfortably, but now it's actually become relevant to discussion, and you STILL ignore my question.

[DavidParker]

Oh, Sxy has played very scummy but a lot of it seems like more newbie-town to me at times, and not sure what she should be doing. Doros on the other hand is trying to play the newbie-town card making it clear her questioning is because she doesnt know what to do... But really Doros's tone is coming off really scummily especially in recent posts as she is trying to justify her lack of opinion on stuff.

I have to say I am becoming more and more confident in Doros scum.

Mmm, now that I think of it... DavidParker, you have a way of convincing people. It's exactly because I am so easily swayed by your arguments, that I am so skeptical of you. I hope, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that you're not scum.

I'm glad you think so. Part of being town is being able to convince other people(who are town) to vote the person who you think is scum. I'm not asking you to blindly follow me; I'm just asking to look at the reasoning presented to you, and well if you agree with it, then all the better. Being convincing isn't just something scum do.

[DavidParker]

Using spoiler tags isn't "hiding text" as there's a very obvious drop down menu to show it. Just makes the post look cleaner. "Hiding text" would be using color to make it blend into the background.

@SxyBeast: Re, those 2 quotes. I actually don't think I'm contradicting myself in any way. Newbie-town players (a category i've put you in) often play very scummily and make themselves easy targets by doing certain things, using ATE/WIFOM, using logical fallacies, mindless bandwagoning etc, but there are certain ways they do this and things they say that make them come off as newbie town. Ie: Look at the post of VItt's i referenced where he made some obscure point which came of as very town to me. (Although Vitt isn't in my newbie-town category, but thats something of the sort). I can go back through your posts and reference why I think you're town at this point if you want. And yes, the gender slip I do find more believable than not.

I also find it very interesting/scummy that Doros has refused to answer what his/her gender is, and now that the issue has come up i'm pretty sure she/he would just say female at this point however, but the fact it refused earlier is interesting.

[DavidParker]

I have to say I am becoming more and more confident in Doros scum.

So DavidParker, are you confident enough to follow MrBump suggestion and sacrifice yourself if I am proven to be town?

At this point, yes.

[DavidParker]

VIttorio what do you think of the "him" gapoc threw into his post since you are voting for SxyBeast, I take it you think gapoc was leaving that there to trick us??

[DavidParker]

I'm in agreement that I don't think we should be lynching SxyBeast based on the "him" slip presented by gapoc earlier, which more or less just leaves Doros or MrBump who I am willing to lynch today. Doros has been far scummier.

[DavidParker]

Umm, I said who I'm "willing" to lynch today :p

Not willing to vote/lynch either of those players.

[DavidParker]

I'm in agreement that I don't think we should be lynching SxyBeast based on the "him" slip presented by gapoc earlier, which more or less just leaves Doros or MrBump who I am willing to lynch today. Doros has been far scummier.

That's funny, earlier you were determined not to let what scum said after being caught affect you...

I've already explained how this is different.

[DavidParker]

Sigh, I'd actually be voting Stef if it wasn't for the "him" slip and Doros being so wishy-washy about the whole gender thing. But that has led me to believe Doros is more likely scum, even if I don't find it "scummier" persay.

:/

[DavidParker]

I don't see the point behind this wagon.

If we are ignoring the gender issue, Stef has been by far the scummiest, and her interactions with gapoc have been pretty suss. Taking it into account Doros is probably the optimal lynch and MrBump's play in regards to gapoc (ie: puttin scum-gapoc at 0 votes) is much more condemning. I suggest you guys knock some sense into your heads. At least you are helping narrow down the scum-pool to you 3.

[DavidParker]

Well with a scum lynch on day 1, you can just wait until lylo to lynch Haylen. And if she turns out to be town and town lose, it's entirely her fault at that. It's the optimal lynch at that point anyways.

My answers are perfect and my logic unassailable? I'm terribly flattered. But if you look at any of my games you'll notice I typically get myself into trouble, wind up getting lynched because of bad logic or bad play, and don't play as impossible-to-read as you make me out to be. Basically you are saying I'm scummy because I'm way too town to be town. It's kind of a logical fallacy and a bad argument, similar to the argument MrBump just employed, the "too scum to be scum" argument on Doros. You can't use it. It's illogical and bad play to use such an argument.

[DavidParker]

Isn't never putting a foot wrong playing town-like? I'm just not understanding your argument on me. I've made countless stances and picked up more than most people here and made countless cases (sure, yes something town can do), but my point is how does that make me not give off any vibes?? You should be asking yourself does what I do seem like town attacking players and making accusations and the conclusions I'm coming to does it seem scum-minded or town-minded... And the only thing that has maybe been confusing about my play is sometimes I have posted in regards to my role as an SE, and other times I have merely posted taking into account my role as a town-aligned player, and not cared about "teaching" or players' "feelings".

[DavidParker]

perhaps. I'm sure myself/Stef/haylen are all well aware of the possible setups it's not something that really needs to be given any attention until there is a PR claim though.

[DavidParker]

You seem to be implying that you believe me to be town at this point Doros and you are trying to convince me to stop voting you and vote for Stefunny. This does not add up with your previous posts and the fact you are voting me.

It looks like a war is brewing between DP and Stefunny. Unfortunately, I'm the one caught in the middle and could be killed soon. If I go and found to be town, there will be a lot of pressure on you DP because of the "sacrificing" thing. So DP you either have to change your positions on things or I hate to say it, work together to get rid of some scummy characters or go and have us both killed soon because Stefunny likes to see me killed next just to see your reaction.

This is coaching to some extent. There's no reason to coach someone you are pretty sure is scum. The second part of this post implies you think I am town and want me to rethink my stance and go after scummy characters (ie: stef). But, you are voting me. So why are you voting me if you think me to be town?

[DavidParker]

@mod

: Prod on haylen plz.

[DavidParker]

Where the heck is Haylen.

Also, I'm still very confident in scum-Doros. Of course I agreed to the "sacrifice" thing knowing that even if we lynched Doros today and he/she flipped town (lol yea right), I wouldn't be quick lynched tomorrow and would still be able to give more input before my death (if my lynch were to even happen tomorrow)

Doros, voting me because I am voting you is not a legitimate reason. Also, you are stating I should be looking out for my own survival??!?!? I'd rather just look out for whatever helps my team most. You appealing to me to side with you, and possibly vote Stef and leave you alone, makes me think you are only looking out for your own survival, and at this point that's something scum would be looking to do foremost.

Anywyas, a bottle of bel air graves later and I still think Doros is scum. So i'm perfectly happy with my vote.

[DavidParker]

I think Doros is L-1 and Stef L-2 from my recent counts. Well not sure if everyone who has expressed willingness to vote for Doros has actually voted it.

[DavidParker]

That wasn't a slip... He explained it in a following post, and I interpreted it the way he explained it when I read it anyways.

Also Haylen,
I am disappoint.

[DavidParker]

Sigh. That's an interesting turn of events. Even without a claim, I don't think it makes Vitorrio drastically scummier, this is a newbie game after all, people hammer without claims all the time and even Doros had something worth claiming (ie: a PR), I feel Doros would have claimed it sooner as people had already posted intent to hammer soon. For now, let's just wait for a flip and deal with all this tomorrow.

Tonight's night-kill will be interesting I feel..

[DavidParker]

Well 95% of my posts are made between the hours of midnight and 5am when I get home from work. I work in a restaurant. After work we sit around and drink wine/beer etc. I'm actually more sober than I normally am tonight for once. But a lot more tired since it's the end of the week so just going to sleep now; hence the lack of comment and me saying just to wait til tomorrow (day 3, if it comes and Doros isn't scum), to discuss further because I'm wayyy too effing tired. BYE>

[DavidParker]

BUT ITS REALLY HARD TO GO TO SLEEP UNTIL IVE SEEN DOROS' FLIP. GOD DAMMIT.

[DavidParker]

Gapoc's "him" basically won the scum the game. Haylen was my night 1 investigation until the "him" that he put in so genuinely (maybe it was genuine , but seems not).

Also, once I died I was SURE haylen was scum especially after she pointed out my cop breadcrumbing. You catch my cop bread crumbing and I coincidentally die?? Sounds like scum finding a cop to kill to me. I don't believe in coincidence. I can't believe you claimed to have found my breadcrumbing I thought that made you obv-scum since I died. As soon as I died you claimed doc, and quoted my breadcrumbs, I just major facepalmed/cringed because of it. Mainly because I resorted to not investigating you night one SOLELY because of gapoc's "him". I actually am rather responsible for town loss. Although I have to say am a little disappointed by the lurkerish scum tactics. And you constantly referencing how that's you play as town, Become active later in the game and you always tunnel as town. The fact you had to constantly reference it was MEH at best. Although i do think most of the newbies learnt a bit from this game.

[DavidParker]

I learnt something to use for future games, I may keep hidden for now.

Right now, simply put, I am disappointed

[DavidParker]

Night One: I wanted to kill a red herring, plus somebody who DP was likely to investigate just to waste an investigation.

I'd never investigate the person most likely to be lynched the following day. With 1 remaining scum I decided to investigate someone else (was going to investigate you), and then if they flipped innocent, well I could still lynch the super scummy player. I had no need to confirm them as scum, or to confirm them as town and waste an investigation, because I didn't want to claim cop just to save a VT.