Large Normal 208 - Fireworks Festival [End]

[AxleGreaser]

@Funcon

Regarding walls: yes for RVS this is big.

'Don't Panic'

. I really really do intend to post fewer walls than on some previous occasions.

@Shiro,

M' Lady

Spoiler: imgs and fluff

Well here we are again,

[...]

*Tips fedora*

I can dance

but this time I get to wear the hat...
and as an added bonus I get to wear a dress just because i want to.
(

note that joke might not travel well outside Australia /Yes

)


So when the music comes around and is ever just the same.

So.... anytime you like, I can still multitask. We don't even have to wait for the moonlight, with the right music we can dance and make our own.

but perhaps we ought wait for the music to begin.

or people might start to talk, and the age gap really isn't appropriate.

---

Speaking of

weirdly

in appropriate things. (sorry about this, I tried to talk skip out of it, but...)
(also please do not be alarmed, just wet.)

Also please reread OP rule 6 We can get around that problem by putting content in this thread that we can talk about. Here is some.
If you want to ask about this, cool, but, pls be careful and stay this side of that rule 6 line. pls ta tia.

@Rhah.

Spoiler: PG13 / emotive

Skip: <Gallumps over to Rhah, puts his paws on Rhah shoulders and gives him a big puppy dog kiss.>
Skip: <curls up at Rhahs feet>
Axle: Skip... behave.
Skip: <pretends to be asleep chasing and dreaming about rabbits>
Axle: "Skip: come"
Skip: <

goes on faking it

>
Axle: "yeah I see your eye twitching. Stay."
... ... ...
Axle: "

good dog?

"

Spoiler: (real world/not insane) almost rational (explanation /equivalent)

None of this reflects on alignment, just state of mind, this is what I have down about where I expect your trajectory (progression) to >>

start from

<<.
So as we cant talk about ongoing games

at all

, lets talk about things we can talk about. (2 posts, total post count, and a bunch of reaching)
So your join date is new, your first ever post was /in to a mini not a newbie.
Your second post that I can talk about is an /in to this game. No other topics in your topic list. Conclusion based on just that information: You are confidently here to play mafia.
Now that might seem trite, but as i read things, and use the words "play mafia" not everyone on the forum is here _primarily_ to do that. Lots of, blah blah, happens. And not everyone knows what they are doing to start with, :... from their first post.

Another thing, seeing as I now ran out of posts that i can talk about, is that when I ran out of posts that I could read (100+ total posts) even if i couldn't talk about them.
I googled Rhah, then as couldn't initially remember seeing the movie Platoon, so read a few plot summaries and watched some trailers/clips. (I probably did see it but back in the 90's). The above is something I can say and is indicative of how far I went.

So no, >you< dont know >me<,
and
pretty sure I don't in any normal sense know you
IIRC i have never played (just read years ago) games on a forum where they (lots of people) have seer cover, peeks, and wolves.

but apparently skip is pretty sure he knows what is important about you.

So even though this was a bit weird, I hope we got that out of the way and can now just play mafia.
We both got PMs...
Now we can slow dance.

specifically

not

voting Rhah.

---

@CABD

specifically

not

voting CABD.

Spoiler: compared to the above, not very weird at all

So back before I joined mafia scum as opposed to joining and playing anywhere else, I read bunch of games. To find out how the game was played here/and elsewhere. I also read a bunch of mod OPs. I believe I am recalling correctly but its been a long time. There were nuances, about how you wrote your rules that I liked.
TLDR: if the mod that wrote those rules wanted to play here, then it seemed like a place I might want to play.
See only a little bit weird.

@everyone I have played with before

Hi.

@everyone that I may not have played with before

Hi?

@everyone that I know I have not have played with before

Hi.

---

---

So playing mafia.
<thinks... Ohh skip is otherwise occupied>
VOTE: Shiro
UNVOTE: Shiro
Also if Skip: asks later, everyone please pretend I also voted for all the cats.

Now which wagon to vote?

VOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: Nero cain trying to pick off a player that can't defend themselves

sheeping this reason.

[AxleGreaser]

This is normal for UCV.

pretty close.
Looks like plausible development anyway.

Yes expect ?????

and we need to remember.

DO NOT TALK ABOUT OTHER ONGOING GAMES IN THIS GAME. I've been seeing this happen in a lot of games recently. Don't do it -- it can ruin not only this game for others, but also other games. I won't be lenient about this rule in particular.

[AxleGreaser]

I think he's just silly town. Cabd could be scum here.

[-silly-] Young and new. Excitable. Eager. now Trying.

I have CABD at about 25%.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP (wrong bbcode language)

I think he's just silly town. Cabd could be scum here.

silly

Young and new. Excitable. Eager. now Trying.

I have CABD at about 25%.

[AxleGreaser]

I have so many people that I want to vote right now.

You could just talk to them.

[AxleGreaser]

I have CABD at about 25%.

25% what?

On a scale of 1-10 how serious was your vote on me?

25% meaning no better than random on what I'd seen.
The vote on you was no better than random either. (within margin of error)

but those are not important at this time.

FYI: My votes this early in the game are pretty much not based on likely to flip scum. As everyone stays pretty close to equal for quite while.

[AxleGreaser]

But talking is hard

You seem to be managing to talk to me.

[AxleGreaser]

just a early usles read, or do you actually think cabd is scum. If you do. WHY????

@UC-My reasoning for thinking cabd could be scum is his "this is normal for UC" post could be scum that knows you are town.

@Nero I believe this is the answer to that UC(67) question. (its the reason the time you said 62)

Is that vote an indication the strength of you read went up?

[AxleGreaser]

I want to point out that Nauci is even newer than VC Voyager.

newer by join date

this indicates an older soul.

so I am assuming Cabd is a sane actor

just sayin

need to judge people by what they are, not just join date and post count.
newer to this forum's interaction styles, yes.

[AxleGreaser]

@nero

I was here when you made 119
I didnt like it. as in meh.

I wanted to see where it went.
wasn't impressed by the utility of it. as in meh.

but that is kind of over with now.
Lets see where you go from here

UNVOTE: Nero

[AxleGreaser]

Axel's post was unintelligible.

It perhaps was unintelligible to you. None of it was @You.

If it was unintelligible to the people it was @ then i expect they made one of two decisions.
Oh thats Axle being Axle. Or they understood something of what i said.
They had opportunities to ask me questions about it, challenge me, or call me scum. It was RVS at the time.

You too also have choices to challenge me, ask me questions about that or anything else.

I'm trawling through axel's post history now,

yes going directly to my history, will find mainly non mafia posts.

My wiki page is little out of date but has links to good representative selection of games.

[AxleGreaser]

Yes.

We have got into it before. Masquerade.
As I recall.
Me coming straight at you didn't work out well. I remember banging heads.

What you have is space to play.
If you notice something about my play that peaks your interest, do ask questions.

[AxleGreaser]

@Axel 199 was such a small post prodding people for opinions, wtf are you talking about "utility" and "see where it went"? why is it "meh"? We've literally been talking about it the entire time since, so how can it be "meh"?

It was a small post prodding for opinions. Townies have their own opinions. AKA some :/ from me.

I can also understand that town!nero, could have been mistaken thinking he found something good and was running with it. And noticed he was getting no general support. Thought what am I missing here and asked.

We've literally been talking about it the entire time since, so how can it be "meh"?

yes literally talking about in the part I looked at after it, was also my problem with it.
It lead to 136 "proven day 1"
Which if I am reading things correctly, wasn't all that good an outcome. It disclosed yet more role information.
Not all that bad, just probably not positive utility.

[AxleGreaser]

If you notice something about my play that peaks your interest, do ask questions.

sure, why was it scummy that I was pushing CABD?

Spoiler: not what I said

FYI: My votes this early in the game are pretty much not based on likely to flip scum. As everyone stays pretty close to equal for quite while.

I didnt like it. as in meh.

I wanted to see where it went.

If I did say that please tell me where I did.

For clarity when I started writing 102 you hadn't voted CABD, and the post had a different intent.
before that your vote, and posting thrust seemed out of kilter. The messed up English is the editing that changed it.

because, after the vote yes I was then curious, and wanted clearer statement whether your vote was alignment indicative or just interpersonal pushback (argy bargy) against

I have my reasons.

I would have in response to 99 backed off as
town!CABD == role fishing town is bad for town.
scum!CABD == I disregard all such claims as in 76

I assume the utility of 76 was that by declaring early CABD has more believeability later when he chooses to disclose more.
I let potential power roles play their own role as they have read their PM.
Scum playing gambits, die best when given enough rope.

but you are not me.

So i can paint generic scum theories for why someone would be curious,
I can also paint nero theories.

TLDR: as i said: meh.

[AxleGreaser]

FOS: AxelGreaser

back at you,
except i have a question


Can you explain why you thought these were good <pro town> questions to ask?

He hasn't given us the details:

*What is the name of the role?
*Is it only one shot?
*Can it be used any day?
*Are there restrictions on when it can be used?
*Do you have any other powers in addition to this one?

[AxleGreaser]

If I did say that please tell me where I did.

true, you didn't but I felt like your 542 implies that you were legit scumreading me at some point or another. We are 20+ pages in. Do you have any reads at this point?

542 also said this.

Lets see where you go from here

which as per my last post means, while I have the concerns my last post defined very explicitly.
I was intending to disengage and see where you went.

As also indicated I appear not to work/think quite like you.

Do you have any reads at this point?

I have lots of "reads", my first post contained reads detailing what I knew about some people capabilities.
I find that important in then later deciding whether they headed off in a scummy or towny direction.

Is there anyone I am wanting to vote and say Vote Player1 : intention to lynch. <<< and if I say that I pretty serious.
Not Yet.

Speaking of which (here as counter example is me inertacting with CABD about his role)
@CABD I am expecting no reply to this. pls ta tia.

Spoiler: CABD

You have indicated

is going to be proven day one~

a role that can give town two lynches day one.

So as it is your role and you(CABD) are the informed minority about it, you get to decide when you should do what.
If there are to be "two Lynches" you will also get to manage what notification we have about when they will happen.
And when i need to know you will tell me.
AND
rather obviously (as in "

No shit sherlock

") as you will be making all those choices, town will judge you by their town utility.

and as previously observed by relative noob mafia player

so I am assuming Cabd is a sane actor

and that combined with my stated in the thread, estimation of CABD skill level

leaves me in the I dont need to know bucket.

hence asking not to be replied to.
-----

This example is brought to you by the letter A and the number 3.

Your interactions had a very different focus to mine.
but you are also not me.

Do you have any reads at this point?

I have a number of rocks i wish to look under. If i run out of those by then i will find more.
I am aware my vote is not in play.

[AxleGreaser]

Some advice, when playing in school ground dont stamp in the puddles other people are playing in.
patients is a virtue.
I am not sure what would have happened next, but now I am not sure i will be able too interpret the response reliably as you poked too.

Spoiler: Naucis post and context.

[...]
Can you explain why you thought these were good <pro town> questions to ask?

[..the questions..]

How experienced is TIAM?

Accidental scumfishing is a trademark of new players.

But otherwise, it was quite the bit of scumfishing.

All we need to know for now is that Cabd has something up his sleeve that's demonstrable in the future, and giving more details to scum is probably anti town at this point. Obviously there are things we'd love to know about how it functions as town, but not necessarily at the expense of telling scum.

Awaiting more Cabd contributions to the thread for now![/quote]

Your points re TIAM are valid.
Your other options was to keep that powder dry, see what TIAM responded like and see what i did with it.

Was my question in some sense unfair?

TLDR: Answering questions asked of other players is often not clever.

How experienced are you?

This is something I regard as a mistake I find reasonable, for you to make. NAI.

Next time pls wait, see what I am doing, before being "helpful"

[AxleGreaser]

Y-you too

Yes i see where your vote is. and Skip is still curled up.

Spoiler: more obscure hard to read stuff

skip

.
.
.
.Grass
.
.
.

I assume you can multitask when you are next online.

[AxleGreaser]

@Two in amillion
just to be clear id still like you to answer my question to you in 582

[AxleGreaser]

Also

@nauci

, now i have a question for you

How experienced is TIAM?

Accidental scumfishing is a trademark of new players.

When you made this post, could you please clarify the intention/purpose of your post. (or what you were generally thinking about)

"suspicion of my motives?"

Was my question in some sense unfair?

or
"being helpful" as i described it.
or something I haven't thought of or didn't say.

[AxleGreaser]

Ok so now I reframe my question.

Also

@nauci

, now i have a question for you

@Axle

My bad! I totally see the cock up now. I had meant to simply

ask how experienced he was

but sometimes I just vomit a lot of words.

When you tried to make made that post, (asking only

that

but went too far)

could you please clarify the >>>

intention/purpose

<<< of your post. (or what you were generally thinking about)

"suspicion of my motives?"

Was my question in some sense unfair?

or
"being helpful" as i described it.
or something I haven't thought of or didn't say.

Perhaps answer this question too.

what were you trying to find out about who?
why were you trying to find that out?

[AxleGreaser]

and as my vote is not doing anything more important, for now.

Sup?

For someone who is quick, you are playing the game pretty slow.
Come on in the water is fine.

VOTE: Quick

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: previous gerry goat posts

hi gerryboat, i hope you dont scumread me for defending and being associated with two towns this game

it would be great if you could vote the scum known as UC

actually it's possible Nero is scum pretending to be extra salty. no way he gives a townread that easily

VOTE: nero

Gerry a little while ago you seemed to indicate you were fairly convinced, UC is Scum.

I now get two different strengths of your nero read.

actually it's possible Nero is scum

no way he gives a townread that easily

Do you have doubt. town!nero would give away that read?

[AxleGreaser]

I'll be honest, I thought he was still a wagon. I also scumread Alisae, HolySpiritTurtle, and Nero Cain. Maybe the latter's a better wagon.

I disagree with all of your scumreads.

OK, so we are still doing this past page 20?

apparently you still are.

[AxleGreaser]

Nauci perhaps i wasn't clear before I am offering you a chance to answer this.


Ok so now I reframe my question.
In 591 you told me what you had really intended to post and then cocked it up.
This is question about why you intended to post that.
I offer 2 example options and an other option

Also

@nauci

, now i have a question for you

@Axle

My bad! I totally see the cock up now. I had meant to simply

ask how experienced he was

but sometimes I just vomit a lot of words.

When you tried to make that post, (asking only

that

but went too far)

could you please clarify the >>>

intention/purpose

<<< of your post. (or what you were generally thinking about)

Were you being
"

suspicion of my motives?

"

Was my question in some sense unfair?

or
"

being helpfu

l" as i described it.
or

something I haven't thought of or didn't say

.

Perhaps answer this question too.

what were you trying to find out about who? (with the question you described in 591)
why were you trying to find that out? (with the question you described in 591)

[AxleGreaser]

@TwoInAMillion

The thread has been moving on, so i am cutting to the chase.

The reason I was asking is I had problem with you as a towny having both these thoughts.

I know how normal games work. I know it's possible for him to have a non normal role. I just don't think it's a) likely and b) a good idea to claim.

You know it not good idea for townies to claim roles.
Yet you persist in wanting him to claim ever more aspects of his role.

He hasn't given us the details:

*What is the name of the role?
*Is it only one shot?
*Can it be used any day?
*Are there restrictions on when it can be used?
*Do you have any other powers in addition to this one?

How can it be good idea to you, to out ever more aspects of the role when role claiming >as a general idea< is in your view bad.

[AxleGreaser]

And I expect LQ to have reads that he can push at this stage of the game right now tbh
And that's not how LQ works. LQ tries to sort everyone not be a lazy little scumfuck <_<

How would he sort people when you blatantly disregarded his asking for help to sort others and

you're not letting him go to do his thing?

To be honest, I don't understand you going all "Waaaaa LQ wouldn't do this thing" when it's been pretty clear that he is stuck in the environment that he'd rather not and it has been preventing him from doing what he would usually do if he wasn't stuck in this environment.

I have a question about Quick. I dont know Quick very well (much at all)

I can see what you are saying above, I understand haranguing, but your read of Quick as player is that what is happening in the thread would equate to "you're not letting him go to do his thing?"

Spoiler: quicks thing was.

Sup?

This game sucks. What page should I skip to? I am on P 7 right now.

Because I wake up and log in and see there are 25 pages of thoughts not much more complicated than "I'm hungry".

I asked people where I should pick up reading at and the response I got was "Oh, I don't actually read all the posts, I just flip through the game like its a magazine".

and some more reasons to not.

Spoiler: Some people were helpful/encouraging/prodding.

EG you.

Anyway things to note
1. Cabd's lolclaim!
2. TIAM's posts in general
3. Joey/Alisae/Whiskers shenanigans
4. I guess a bit of talking about Axle?

Given lots of stuff happened is Quick not being let do his thing or is he not choosing to do it?

[AxleGreaser]

@Axel

My cock up was when I gave out the reasons for asking about TIAM's experience level, when I shouldn't have.

Point being, the more experienced he is, the more I read his follow ups to Cabd as scumfishing.

I didn't think your question was unfair, but I wanted to follow up and get more details about TIAM so *I* can refine my views on his posts.

ta now I will explain the problem I had with your posting.
It bit long so spoilered it. It has rather lot to do with what you knew and what you did with it.

Spoiler: Nausics trajectory (train of thought)

basis

I agree in principle with you observation "Accidental scumfishing is a trademark of new players."
as you can now see from my recent 808 to TIAM, (i had more up my sleeve)
but at the time you didnt know that.

so when I examine what you did know

You knew his about me

-Axel's post that looked 50% hatter material to me mostly looked like speculations on player styles, personalities, and mental states and other meta bits. Seems like that's his play style, to factor newness and other things outside of the thread into decisions.

You meant to do this

I had originally intended to quote it and follow up ask him or you for an assessment of his experience level, but the comment somehow got away from me and I vomitted out my reasonings for wanting to know.

but instead it got away from you and you did this

How experienced is TIAM?

Accidental scumfishing is a trademark of new players.

But otherwise, it was quite the bit of scumfishing.

When I your read 584, it was clear to me (

a strong impression/implication

) you when writing the post post had your own estimation of how experienced TIAM is.
So why asking about TIAM's experience when you already knew?

On top of that, if you know that I know too (As per 565) why were you not suspicious of me for pushing that?

TLDR: yeah I am going with cock up.

There exist subtle scum narratives/puposes, that could explain your actions (stirring the pot)
but Ive been squeezing fairly hard, in asking you questions, and you didnt rattle like scum.

[AxleGreaser]

Well, I guess we just wait until whatever is supposed to happen happens then???

WAT.

CABD has claimed he has PR that will effect the game today

my claim is going to be proven day one~

he didn't say it would win the game D1.

So I guess we have to go on playing the game.

and as he also got pushed to say this

I am explicitly claiming a role that can give town two lynches day one.

Which now means no we dont have to

just wait until whatever is supposed to happen happens then???

We have been explicitly told there are two lynches. That doubles your urgency to interact with people and work out who.
Not stop at the first shiny thing(Alisae), and spin your wheels.

[AxleGreaser]

By all means, throw some questions at me so you can feel as confidently that I am Town as well.

Useful Questions are not cherries on trees, you need to work for them.
I had question for Nausi by carefully reading through the thoughts he had been putting in the thread.
Thats why I voted you to get you to contribute. Thats why I left it there when you prevaricated.

but lets go with what you have.
746 explains your view of Alisaes CABD read. 776 disputes your version of his read.

You then suggest this is what the discussion should be about

See, your view of what I consider effort and what I consider a waste of time is what should be the argument here.

What happened to the point you made in 746?
Why is better to argue about your two differing views of time wasting vs effort.

HST suggested recently that you are stuck, and Alisae is stopping you doing your thing.
Are you being stopped from doing your thing, by Alisae?

it's been pretty clear that he is stuck in the environment that he'd rather not and it has been preventing him from doing what he would usually do if he wasn't stuck in this environment.

because your definition of what should be the argument would have seemed likely to bog it down in a slanging match.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm also assuming some sort of IC type thing to happen. If that doesn't happen, then we have a whole mess of stuff to deal with that I am not looking forward to.

This is (one) why I believe HST suggested this list to you.

Anyway things to note
1. Cabd's lolclaim!
2. TIAM's posts in general
3. Joey/Alisae/Whiskers shenanigans
4. I guess a bit of talking about Axle?

So when you investigated 1. by say isoing CABD.
Which would be necessary if you wanted to see if Alisaes read had merit.

Then you would have found these two.

my claim is going to be proven day one~

explicitly claiming a role that can give town two lynches day one.

[AxleGreaser]

Do you two need talk?

My thoughts on Quick/LQ are that his content and reactions are that of immature

newby town

.

Unvoting because quick's behavior thus far has been pretty typical of an

ornery veteran

, and my initial reaction was largely based on the Oct 2017 join date.

[AxleGreaser]

tbh, I am not sure why HST decided to stick their neck out for me. Doesn't seem very smart unless they are Scum or just REALLY think I am Town here.

Well, its not that hard.
Various people stuck their neck out for UC earlier. 75% of players are town. If you stick it out correctly it is not that much of a risk.

In some sense i am now for you, even though I am voting you, the other wagons also don't look a lot different in likely hood to flip scum.

You asked

By all means, throw some questions at me so you can feel as confidently that I am Town as well.

So I am giving you something to interact against that isnt Alisae.

[AxleGreaser]

patients is a virtue.

Is this a doc breadcrumb?

FYI: Nope.
Not nope to anything about roles at all.
just nope to I don't breadcrumb. Mispeel that I do do.
Pretty sure I can find pretty close to policy on that in my meta

or we an stop making dumb potentially outing statements about, roles....

[AxleGreaser]

@HolySpiritTurtle

Spoiler: proably unimportant but it had a ? so ...

I can see what you are saying above, I understand haranguing, but your read of Quick as player is that what is happening in the thread would equate to "you're not letting him go to do his thing?"

It wouldn't be fair to just quote the first few posts of his and tell me what you're trying to tell me, no?

I agree the three quotes, that I chose are not indicative of Quicks entire Filter/ISO up to there.

They were however IMO a reasonable facsimile, of What Quick wanted his thing to be,
(they were what he was doing before the pressure went up)

I still think given free choice, (if no wagon had formed on him)

Given lots of stuff happened is Quick not being let do his thing or is he not choosing to do it?

My three quotes were "a fair indication" of where his unpressured play would have gone.

I don't have a problem with your description. I wanted to nuance it.

[AxleGreaser]

@GerryOat

In the spoiler are some recent posts where you are spruking for the Dunk lynch.

Spoiler:

no, i'm voting dunk/UC only

I told ya'll Gerry is scum's helper. :/

how? do you TR dunk?

Its actully kinda anti-town as it might make things not show up in search

nuke this slot lol.

UC/Nero/Dunk i will lynch in those. since dunk has the highest votes, i'll keep my vote there

but last i heard, you were

VOTE: dunk i'm willing to lynch this.

UC is my other scumread

can you explain, where in your previous posts you explained why you think hes scummy enough that you now spruke for a lynch?

[AxleGreaser]

@Whiskers

Hi, earlier you said this about me.

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to Vote: Axle Greaser for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating.

I am fine with that being your opinion I have heard that opinion before. (joey only one of a number)
We are now playing mafia.

---

Here are two posts you made a lot earlier.
I chose earlier on purpose as you were not being wagoned back then.
As balance,

I see the intent of the first as firm but helpful.

@UC villager
It's also completely fucking illegible, please write it out normally so anybody can read/quote it.
Why is there so much spam in this game already?

Axle's first post is the most cancerous shit i have ever seen in my mafia career

wooo, thank you.
Also @UCV, your "fakeclaim in RVS" is going to be used to incriminate you as town or scum later on in the game. It's very very real to breadcrumb during RVS. And if it _is_ fake, you've just introduced a whole extra angle that scum could attack you from, disctracting from

real

scumhunting when we'll need it most. RVS is RVS, but IGMEOU.

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that

you're self aware that you're scummy

and are trying to avoid lynch for it.

Instead, don't be scummy?

new =/= town???

The second i have some problems with.
I agree: new=/=town.
I agree he is a bit self aware

but I don't agree,

hes self aware he is scummy

. He is self aware that he is new and inexperienced
and like other very new&young players i have seen before that gets new players like that into trouble regularly.

He is not like some town!people who deliberately do scummy stuff as town for variety of reasons. (usually called reaction tests)
Those they could choose not to do.

I expect if he starts another game tomorrow (AKA not an ongoing one) he would likely be considered low hanging fruit in it.
I expect he is self aware of that.

You suggest

Instead, don't be scummy?

Do you really think a new player can achieve

Instead, don't be scummy?

Can you explain the intent of that post.

[AxleGreaser]

@TIAM

Spoiler: TIAM

Assuming RHAH is your mason partner listen to him

You may think these

I don't believe a single thing cabd says.

I believe Camd is a vanilla townie.

but given this

You can quicklynch me if I don't shoot somebody today.

(and that is not someone, who does that regularly) (hence would likely get lynched)

Just assume, he is not vanilla town.
True not everything he says is totally true, this is mafia.

[AxleGreaser]

@Whiskers
Earlier I asked you a question. Shortly after that it got busy, so I expect you missed it.
If its not clear please point out where and i will attempt to clarify.
There is a fair bit of writing the two questions are at the bottom.

If [open the spoiler] and then click on this <<link>> it will jump to the questions.
ta.

Spoiler: The question

@Whiskers

Hi, earlier you said this about me.

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to Vote: Axle Greaser for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating.

I am fine with that being your opinion I have heard that opinion before. (joey only one of a number)
We are now playing mafia.

---

Here are two posts you made a lot earlier.
I chose earlier on purpose as you were not being wagoned back then.
As balance,

I see the intent of the first as firm but helpful.

@UC villager
It's also completely fucking illegible, please write it out normally so anybody can read/quote it.
Why is there so much spam in this game already?

Axle's first post is the most cancerous shit i have ever seen in my mafia career

wooo, thank you.
Also @UCV, your "fakeclaim in RVS" is going to be used to incriminate you as town or scum later on in the game. It's very very real to breadcrumb during RVS. And if it _is_ fake, you've just introduced a whole extra angle that scum could attack you from, disctracting from

real

scumhunting when we'll need it most. RVS is RVS, but IGMEOU.

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that

you're self aware that you're scummy

and are trying to avoid lynch for it.

Instead, don't be scummy?

new =/= town???

The second i have some problems with.
I agree: new=/=town.
I agree he is a bit self aware

but I don't agree,

hes self aware he is scummy

. He is self aware that he is new and inexperienced
and like other very new&young players i have seen before that gets new players like that into trouble regularly.

He is not like some town!people who deliberately do scummy stuff as town for variety of reasons. (usually called reaction tests)
Those they could choose not to do.

I expect if he starts another game tomorrow (AKA not an ongoing one) he would likely be considered low hanging fruit in it.
I expect he is self aware of that.

You suggest

"Instead, don't be scummy?"

Two Questions

Do you really think a new player can achieve

Instead, don't be scummy?

Can you explain the intent of that post.

[AxleGreaser]

@CABD

: In case youre silly. (so sorry?) The question is at Joey.
Ask me questions later if you'd like something clarified to the rest of the thread, about what i think.

As far as im concerned, i wouldnt waste my scum day vig shot on dunk as mefia since hes lynchbait @quick

@Joey.

if there was hypothetical game (not this one)
and a mafia player in the game had a day vig.

And he didn't shoot someone like Dunker (but shot someone scum might like to shoot)

What would happen to the mafia player?
and would the trade be worth it?

[AxleGreaser]

@gerryoat

can you explain, where in your previous posts you explained why you think hes scummy enough that you now spruke for a lynch?

i asked dunk a question and they said it was an actual read and i dont believe thats a read town would have

Spoiler: details

Dunker stated this about CABD after CABD noticed Dunker voting a town read.

this is locktown though

You asked

is this satire or an actual read?

got answered

actual read

and as result of that your read was

ONLY

this strong

VOTE: dunk i'm willing to lynch this.

but last i heard, you were

In post 947, gerryoat wrote:
VOTE: dunk i'm

willing to lynch this.

UC is my other scumread



can you explain, where in your previous posts you explained why you think hes scummy enough that you now

spruke for a lynch?

Now i have two problems:

First:

I still don't know how you got from merely being

willing to lynch it

, up to what i saw as "

spruking for a lynch

"

Second:

What saw you do in the thread was get Dunker to commit to it being read.
What i didn't see was you try to find out why Dunker had that read.

I had (pretty much) had that read on CABD at that time.

i asked dunk a question and they said it was an actual read and i dont believe thats a read town would have

does that effect your read on me?

[AxleGreaser]

@Nero

Do you have a reason to believe his earlier read was not genuine?

this is scum whiteknighting. Lets kill it.

i really dont think tiam is mefia, ill check back later cya

[AxleGreaser]

@nauci

Spoiler: TZ

Hey Axel are you in a euro time zone

+10 Australia. I keep odd & variable hours.

[AxleGreaser]

@NERO

and avoiding this game but yeah....

My question was not optional.

@Nero

Do you have a reason to believe his earlier read was not genuine?

this is scum whiteknighting. Lets kill it.

i really dont think tiam is mefia, ill check back later cya

Do you have a reason to believe his earlier read was not genuine?

[AxleGreaser]

@Flubber

Regarding >>ONLY<< this point

okay cool so now we know dunkaroo was a counterwagon to whiskers too

I had very hard look at the wagon development over time.

and while its often simply true to glibly say of two wagons end of day, if ones on town the other is on scum.
(and even that is not always right)

But for it to form as counter wagon there must be some possible people, who in some sense got on at an opportune time.
(for instance the whiskers wagon didn't exist in any real sense when HST voted. Not a counter wagon at that time.)
Indeed when you go through it in detail, you need to imaginative to see it at as a counter wagon any time.

Here is a wagon snapshot when serious pressure (remembering leading wagon probably gets killed)

Spoiler: wagon

votecount 1.22

Whiskers (5) - Flubbernugget, Rhah, Nero Cain, Alisae, beeboy

Dunkerdoodles (4) - HolySpiritTurtle, Cabd, gerryoat, TwoInAMillion
TwoInAMillion (1) - Quick
Quick (1) - AxleGreaser
HolySpiritTurtle (1) - Dunkerdoodles

Not voting (6) - Shiro, I Am Innocent, Joey_, UC Voyager, Nauci, Whiskers

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is October 23, 15:00 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2017-10-23 15:00:00).

Shiro is V/LA until October 17.

After that stuff flapped around.
1108 1126
but the extra people voting were claimed masons, and Whiskers as self preservation vote.

Calling that a counter wagon,
doesn't really seem all that plausible.

If it is, I pretty much only see gerryoat as the possible scum.
(well that and cloud cuckoo land theories)

Question:

Can you explain what makes you

think

know it is a counter wagon

[AxleGreaser]

No

Joey joey joey

The question was toooo him. I wanted to know >about him< and how >>he<< got his read on you.

Indeed if I wanted to know where your read in 453 came from Id be asking you.
If hes town he doesn't need more information from you to help him answer my question.

@Axe i took time to answer your question, are you going to address it ever or nah

yes.
I was actually using it just now.
I like good lawyer wanted to know, if Nero had tried asking, would he likely have got something productive.
(AKA I wasn't sure before my question to you, he wouldn't be able to claim asking was pointless)
Your answer in 1748 followed as good fortune with 1751
let me know that if Nero had asked it was very plausible he would have got a useful answer.

So now I want to know why Nero didnt ask, and just went with

this is scum whiteknighting. Lets kill it.

That seems like lack of curiosity about why you really defended TIAM.

---

but yes lesson learned.
Next time if I ask a question like that and get such an answer, I ought be politer and acknowledge it, if what i do with it next isn't immediately obvious.

[AxleGreaser]

I also knew his question was to him but nero will never admit his fos is pretty shitty

and if he is scum why would he. In that case he knows he made it up without real reason.
but it me asking him and hearing his replies that lets me read, whether thats scummy or just wrong.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP

I also knew his question was to him but nero will never admit his fos is pretty shitty

and if he is scum why would he? In that case he knows he made it up without a real reason.
but by me asking him and hearing his replies, that lets me read, whether that is him being scummy or just wrong.

[AxleGreaser]

but i was mildly pissed

yes, I had not thought about how youd feel having answered that first question with such long post and it seemingly not going anywhere. So more prominently this time

but yes lesson learned.
Next time if I ask a question like that and get such an answer, I ought be politer and acknowledge it, if what i do with it next isn't immediately obvious.

oops

but yes not answering other peoples questions is pretty close to a golden rule: IMO.

[AxleGreaser]

Can you explain what makes you think know it is a counter wagon

-> it came after whiskers
-> it was on town

Do you disagree that whiskers posting without following up with reads is scummy? Do you think it's acceptable to try and excuse that with self meta? These issues are the real meat of my whiskers scum read.

If i understand what you mean by that:
Um >>pretty much<< nope. (except I wouldn't use quite the same words) So I wanted to clearly not comment on the other aspects.
AKA why I said.

@Flubber
Regarding >>ONLY<< this point

self meta is thing people do. It usually worthless. If examination of actual meta then supports it then thats different.
I have not tried to go back for Whiskers meta.

And I was bit worried why it was getting garnished with what looks to be BS about counter wagons to me.

We can argue the details of that if you like,

These issues are the real meat of my whiskers scum read.

So those are the ones, I will continue to try and examine. Yes my question to Whiskers is to me relevant.
but I need to get it, aanswered and then do more.

[AxleGreaser]

Can you explain what makes you think know it is a counter wagon

-> it came after whiskers
-> it was on town

Do you disagree that whiskers posting without following up with reads is scummy? Do you think it's acceptable to try and excuse that with self meta? These issues are the real meat of my whiskers scum read.

If i understand what you mean by that:
Um >>pretty much<< nope. (except I wouldn't use quite the same words) So I wanted to clearly not comment on the other aspects.

Indeed having read through it again
VOTE: Whiskers

[AxleGreaser]

dunk wasnt a quality shot either

Who was?

[AxleGreaser]

@Gerryoat

Are you going to answer my question to you?

@gerryoat

can you explain, where in your previous posts you explained why you think hes scummy enough that you now spruke for a lynch?

i asked dunk a question and they said it was an actual read and i dont believe thats a read town would have

Spoiler: details

Dunker stated this about CABD after CABD noticed Dunker voting a town read.

this is locktown though

You asked

is this satire or an actual read?

got answered

actual read

and as result of that your read was

ONLY

this strong

VOTE: dunk i'm willing to lynch this.

but last i heard, you were

In post 947, gerryoat wrote:
VOTE: dunk i'm

willing to lynch this.

UC is my other scumread



can you explain, where in your previous posts you explained why you think hes scummy enough that you now

spruke for a lynch?

Now i have two problems:

First:

I still don't know how you got from merely being

willing to lynch it

, up to what i saw as "

spruking for a lynch

"

Second:

What saw you do in the thread was get Dunker to commit to it being a read.
What i didn't see was you try to find out why Dunker had that as a read.

I had (pretty much) had that same read as Dunker on CABD at that time.

i asked dunk a question and they said it was an actual read and i dont believe thats a read town would have

does that effect your read on me?

[AxleGreaser]

Re my earlier question and your answer:

Spoiler: earlier Q&A cleared up

This stuff considered in isolation can look scummy.

Going "I'M NEW HAHA IT WOULD JUST BE

TOOOO

EASY TO MISLYNCH ME! BECAUSE I'M SOOOOO NEW HAHA!" means that you're self aware that you're scummy and are trying to avoid lynch for it.
Instead, don't be scummy? new =/= town???

Although, you could argue that Voyager should have been trying to [not play like a newbie].

Yes you could. Other people can still argue the wording but ... Me.
In its complete context, in the thread I now regard it as NAI.

So was that a waste of your fucking time?
Nope. We are now talking, you see I am not just railroading you, and then I possibly have more questions.
They wont be railroading you either.

However my vote is still on you.

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.

Spoiler: defending self example

i just ctrl+f "angry" on alisae's iso and he never mentionned you being angry : )

This feels just as faked as Whisker's Anger.

Get rekt, scrub.

I find too many posts like this where you defend yourself.

and fine you are meant to do that.
and yes a bit later you had a vote on, Alisae.

but this does not feel to me like you are trying to work out Alisae
or trying to drive that scum case forward.
Having fended them off you feel Happy with just that.

I know that as that is my feel read kind of thing, there is perhaps nothing you can really say.
You are busy, but if you want to talk me off that point, but i think its unlikely you could go back remember what you were doing as a towny and explain it more.

Spoiler: Filler

292 explains what a filler post is to Joey. Which a bit ironically looks like filler to me or IIOA. Whatever the right buzzword is.
304 then tries again, with a different explanation

Basically, I see you playing in the thread in that part of the game, dont see your towny intent.

My question

I suppose is can you explain whats going on so I see the towny intent?

Its just this time i dont think there is an explanation that is going to change my view.
It would also get long and bogged down as there are other examples.



My best advice is work at finding scum.

The exact status of this vote is:
I don't like the Flubber wagon.
Not enamored with the UCV one. (vacuous.)

I have not yet integrated the stuff after your reads list into where i am at.
but:
To vote somewhere else I would need somewhere else better to vote.

I have questions and stuff happening. That i need to see to.

So while i am happy to talk you about my read on that period of posting, I am not sure i see the point.

---

Also:

Lastly: Re your comment on my Gerryoat Question

Spoiler: Pretty sure my gerryoat question didnt miss anything

My as yet I believe unanswered, gerryoat question.

In this viewtopic.php?p=9680521#p9680521 You catch the exchange between gerry and Dunk regarding the line, "Is this satire or an actual read?"
What you missed in your post was that

Dunk had actually admitted it was sarcasm [/i] earlier[/i] in the Day

-- like, shortly after he made his initial "this is locktown" post.

If you saw this post:

his earlier posts felt like a grab at towncred
his other posts seem more like go with the flow and just not really do anything
idk don't question it
yes i'm a hypocrite and no i don't care

That when you read it in context is Dunkers explanation of the Beeboy vote.

So if you still think that can you give me a post number.

[AxleGreaser]

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to

Vote: Axle Greaser

for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating. Was going to hop on Ali wagon but this is insufferable. Meanwhile,
FOS Cabd for the soft Vig/SK claim, FOS UC Voyager for the

overt

SK claim, which, while I don't buy (because he claimed "Town-Aligned SK"), regular SKs, and Day-Vigs (where being one doesn't necessarily clear him) are quite likely, and I think it's a breadcrumb.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now...

I am not seeing the scum motivation here to outing Cabd as some crumb. So someone explain to me why the whiskers wagon is a thing?

...People on the Whiskers wagon explain this please.

Damn. I tried putting the reasons here, but nested spoilers dont work.

My reasons are in 2142

In it is part of an ongoing discussion with Whiskers about his posts.
The TLDR is now here in bold.

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.

Spoiler:

defending self example

(see spoiler in the link)


Spoiler:

Filler

(see spoiler in the link)

Basically, I see you playing in the thread in that part of the game, dont see your towny intent.

My question I suppose is can you explain whats going on so I see the towny intent?

And so far, I haven't manage to see that range of posts (from the quoted one on up to his reads list) as having towny intent.
and my problem with that was there were so many opportunities to ask questions probe and try to find things out but it just kept not happening.

and yes it is a judgement call, but I still see them as the best most likely to flip scum wagon.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: Clearing this up == oops sorry

So was that a waste of your fucking time?
Nope. We are now talking, you see I am not just railroading you, and then I possibly have more questions.

They wont be railroading you either.

I don't really understand this. Did I say this would be a waste of my fucking time? :\

Sorry didn't mean to imply that. I was answering hypothetical question. I had an even with joey a while ago where he go upset with me seemingly wasting his time i was trying to avoid that.

You also at no point suggested i was railroading you.
This:

They wont be railroading you either.

is assurance you can hold me accountable for it if I do.

dealing with an example of defending self without displaying towny curiosity.

Spoiler: defending

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.
<area>

i just ctrl+f "angry" on alisae's iso and he never mentionned you being angry : )

This feels just as faked as Whisker's Anger.

Get rekt, scrub.

I find too many posts like this where you defend yourself.

and fine you are meant to do that.
and yes a bit later you had a vote on, Alisae.

but this does not feel to me like you are trying to work out Alisae

or trying to drive that scum case forward.
Having fended them off you feel Happy with just that.

I know that as that is my feel read kind of thing, there is perhaps nothing you can really say.
You are busy, but if you want to talk me off that point, but i think its unlikely you could go back remember what you were doing as a towny and explain it more.</area>

My push on Alisae wasn't getting traction. Nobody was willing to look at her while I pushed, and my push was largely a hypocritical push on me and otherwise having bad logic. Plus posts like the "get rekt" one, I was 2v1 and appreciated being able to wave a mistake in their face.

From memory: I agree I believe i saw these happen:

push on Alisae wasn't getting traction

,

Nobody was willing to look at her

It also looked like you

appreciated being able to wave a mistake in their face.

and while it those things

but this does not feel to me like you are trying to work out Alisae

which is my problem with those posts is still true.

continued answering rest of post 2382 still coming in next post (or there abouts)

[AxleGreaser]

I sorta feel like you are obsessed with covering old ground.

My reasons for voting him included the statement they were open for him to talk to me about.
He did i am being good to my word.
I suggested it was not the most efficient way if he was towny to show that he was.

Its just this time i dont think there is an explanation that is going to change my view.
It would also get long and bogged down as there are other examples.

My vote is on whiskers. It is my current ground.

[AxleGreaser]

My first preference for a lynch today is still whiskers.
Of the two available wagons

VOTE: Quick

Flub: ISO > looks townier (I can find specific things I think mean he got a town PM)
For a start I got the basis of my read on Whiskers by reading Flubs ISO. (also some strategy level feel read stuff)

Quick ISO > poor entrance to game. noisy == (less clear intentions)

Yes those cards are close to my chest.
If either CABD or HST want to take peek, and think doing so has town utility, we can dance.

[AxleGreaser]

Yes those cards are close to my chest.
If either CABD or HST want to take peek, and think doing so has town utility, we can dance.

I have realised these "rules" may make other people anxious.
(

but think about this pls

. If I ought be quizzed what are the odds they are both scum?)

So if we get up to the point, where someone is ready(declares intent) to hammer Flub or Quick.

And

anyone

wants to at that time, come back and quiz my reasoning.
I will explain in first a bit of succinct detail why, and later in more.
(my reasoning will clearly be my own.)

Meanwhile other people wanting to vote one way or the other can go find their own damn reasons.
I kinda like the current game state in that people voting either wagon have a not easy decision.

---

Also

@ CABD and GIF

. There is some math called an iterated prisoners dilemma
If you want to talk,

its actual pretty safe

, as I would do it in rounds (like that math does) until you understood where I was coming from if you don't already.

[AxleGreaser]

meanwhile

@Joey

Why are you voting with your highest fos even?

WAT? I am confused by what you mean to say here.
are you concerned that Whiskers is on the Quick Wagon? And i am voting the quick wagon?
if so LOL.

Axe trying to justify his vote (after ego voting all game)

Your claim is factually untrue. In 1893 for instance that is me with my vote on the lead wagon at the time. AKA me not ego voting.

You do know i can be wrong about whiskers.

The major fucking blackhole in his logic is that whiskers is pushing quick.

Townreading someone for making a case that you agree on

Which means flubb had read the thread and found something, I had missed but now agree on.
That for me gets town points.

Axe reasoning :

Yes your representation of my reasoning is LOLs.

Basically a town mindset is this :

You are close to the deadline and you cannot for the life of you actually get a lynch going onto your hardest scumread, what the fuck do you do then ? You look at whos that very same fos is pushing so you know how to adjust your vote.

As I said LOLs. That may be how you say your mind works.
What i did was examine the thread, and all the reads i had made and sheeped my own opinion.

[AxleGreaser]

I refuse the world where town

how about you live in the world where this is true

The exact status of this vote is:
I don't like the Flubber wagon.
Not enamored with the UCV one. (vacuous.)

My earlier statement on how much I did or didnt like the Flub wagon.
The UCV is one vacuous. (AKA closeish to random, esp based on the cases made.)

I disliked the Flub one more than that, back then.
and you claim it would LMAO that I don't follow your preflip reasoning?

No I am not tunneled the fuck into my whiskers read. I am not basing all my other reads of associations with that unflipped player.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: Whiskers

still pending

continued answering rest of post 2382 still coming in next post (or there abouts)

My position on the relative merits of a Whiskers vs a Flub Lynch have not changed since yesterday.
And Whiskers is still IMO the best lynch, as they were yesterday

Summary of the case so far:

Spoiler: This bit is currently IMO irrelevant (posts 1-253) (24 whiskers posts)

In some large picture sense it may be relevant but it is not the heart of the issue.

TLDR:

I am going to ignore posts before 253 as kinda NAI.

These 24 posts (1-253) cover the followng topics.
UCV <<<< This bit I am going to excise. As for me it seems not only just NAI, but a read on the person not the role.
There existed the possibility it was being leveraged, I dont in any meaningful sense think so.
CABD (and speculation around the claim)(discussing its utility)

Good Play: 187. effort =/= town. But that felt like balanced push.

Statements about me(Axle), which if i get quote detached from it being about me, seem like stances players with town PMs took in the past.

There is an interaction with Joey (202 and on for bit) that I both like and dont like. I feel read that my dont like is wrong headed. Its D1, that Ok for a D1 push, with D1 levels of certainty.

And that is I believe most of whats in the first 24 whiskers posts most of the content is not making think yay town.
187 was something Ok

TLDR:

I am going to ignore posts before 153 as kinda NAI.

and yes (is some bizarro backwards way) despite being NAI, that it is NAI, and there isn't some other part of the ISO towning it up.

Is relevant.

(just not at all central)

The scum read comes from 253 onwards

The best partial explanation of what the scumread is based on is back here

Spoiler: quoted earlier wall

Let me just skip a page and a half of posts to

Vote: Axle Greaser

for being incredibly annoying and unnecessarily obfuscating. Was going to hop on Ali wagon but this is insufferable. Meanwhile,
FOS Cabd for the soft Vig/SK claim, FOS UC Voyager for the

overt

SK claim, which, while I don't buy (because he claimed "Town-Aligned SK"), regular SKs, and Day-Vigs (where being one doesn't necessarily clear him) are quite likely, and I think it's a breadcrumb.

Ahh, it's all coming back to me now...

I am not seeing the scum motivation here to outing Cabd as some crumb. So someone explain to me why the whiskers wagon is a thing?

...People on the Whiskers wagon explain this please.

Damn. I tried putting the reasons here, but nested spoilers dont work.

My reasons are in 2142

In it is part of an ongoing discussion with Whiskers about his posts.
The TLDR is now here in bold.

I have some other issues with your ISO, back in the range From about 253 Onwards.

Spoiler:

defending self example

(see spoiler in the link)


Spoiler:

Filler

(see spoiler in the link)

Basically, I see you playing in the thread in that part of the game, dont see your towny intent.

My question I suppose is can you explain whats going on so I see the towny intent?

And so far, I haven't manage to see that range of posts (from the quoted one on up to his reads list) as having towny intent.
and my problem with that was there were so many opportunities to ask questions probe and try to find things out but it just kept not happening.

and yes it is a judgement call, but I still see them as the best most likely to flip scum wagon.

But you may need to read 2142

@Thread

Yes that is fuck tonne of words (when you open the

second

spoiler and read the link (esp 2142) all in one post.
Pull up the activity count, no I have no buried you with words, (high post count) do me the bloody courtesy of reading the ones I do say. Ta tia.
If you dont understand bits of it talk to me. AND say things when you do, when i see what bit you don't understand, I have a much better chance of working out how to explain the point differently. Generic talking such as, "Axle you're full of shit", really wont be a way to start a good faith discussion.

[AxleGreaser]

oh, I guess I need to ask Whiskers something.

Yeah... probably be a good idea.

@Nero

before opening the spoiler pleasssse read this.
I am going to stipulate that reasonably recently I have seen people without any PM at all state they at times for players they have sorted, just dont read parts of the thread. And i presume they meant ever, even once.
So the question in the spoiler is in some sense is straight up idle curiosity.

Spoiler: This has question inside.

Why do you need to reread?

Why don't you?
(yes there is the obv answer, TMI)

I am assuming there is a different answer.
Me I reread(A bit skimmy) the thread several times yesterday.
For instance, I reread the entire period, 253-2068, to make sure i was seeing whiskers posts in the context of the game he was playing in.

Now hat is Axle being Axle, Nero is not Axle, so I don't expect that from you at all.

This makes me feel funny.

Why do you need to reread?

but you are voting the whiskers wagon with me.

Can you help me not feel funny about.

Why do you need to reread?

Tell me how that is just Nero.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

Which bits sold you?

---

@Thread if you are asking WTF is Axle doing.

Go reread my filter, and see the questions i asked both these slots. (Nero Gerry, then see the answers or not that I got.)

Hey sheeping big wally posts is fun and all, but it makes me spooked.

[AxleGreaser]

JUST KIDDING!

tbh that is pretty funny.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: probably unimportant

I asked for this

Tell me how that is just Nero.

This is pretty much kinda that

(This is not the towniest thing, that I thought of, that you might say. Your 2724 could have been because, Nauci:2723 gave you anyone of these "feels", it was LAMIST, and or while accurate "109 page abomination of a thread!" why the need to tell us? ... )
And if that probe (which kept your powder dry) had got you the response 2727. Which you then wanted to decide is Ok or chase further. Id be all happy. There were other kinds of replies that you could have made that would have looked bad.

but yes this feels fair bit like you. (so of the options I thought of its above par)

Why don't you?

b/c I'm bias and I think I have a pretty good grasp on the game. I was town reading all 3 flipped town. Now obviously the criticism will be that I was perfectly ok with flipping annoying/bad town (Quick) but I think that's bullocks. So why do I need to reread?

Can you help me not feel funny about.

Maybe. Nauci had the entire night phase to reread. Why didn't she read then? Maybe she was still sick? I guess in hindsight,

it was my gut reaction.

I'm pretty hardheaded and I don't immediately reset sometimes, myself and most town I think kinda go "oh my top scumread didn't flip scum, let's go to the next. She's voted nothing but town so I guess it's a good idea she does reread and reset. I'll be somewhat interested in what she comes up with. In the back of my mind I'm thinking that this could be a scum stall tactic.

What are your Nauci thoughts?

Re: this question.

What are your Nauci thoughts?

I need to ask Whiskers something. We've had two flips, both town. What have you learned about Nauci's alignment?

You have two very similar questions in the thread to two people. I am happy to answer right now. But would you prefer to hear one or other answer first?

[AxleGreaser]

P.s any Tl;Dr of yesterday will be appreciated as wells any points of interest

Spoiler: roles

CABD made various statements near day start, about non normal role. There was discussion of it, by various people.
His role as per the flip was a D1 vig.

Eventually in the middle of the D1, CABD (fake shot TIAM)(Rhah 1322 out himself and TIAM as mason partners)
CABD then submitted his real shot via PM, and killed Dunker)

I had intended to do better job than this.
I will try and be back a bit later. RN my computer is acting up something chronic.
I think its my graphics card. I keep losing the mouse ptr and stuff.

I cant properly navigate around the game thread.

So I will just type some notes.
HST(GIF) posted a list of 4 topics to Quick to get him going you could look at those.
Clearly there is interest in Flubber and Whiskers.
Other than isoing them
you could look in the mods iso for any other less significant wagons that spark your interest.

That would likely miss(not get a clear picture) smaller post count players, who you could iso.

Some parts of the thread contain extensive back and forths, I find those those time consuming to try and understand motivations, and less informative. YMMV.
If you work around detailed reading of those, it would simplify the game bit for you.

Anyway welcome to the game, now we can dance. Even if tensions are little higher now.

[AxleGreaser]

I borrowed computer and went back and wrote the post I meant to write.
This quoted post is largely new. Gotta give the computer back now. GLHF.

P.s any Tl;Dr of yesterday will be appreciated as wells any points of interest

Spoiler: roles

CABD made various statements near day start, about non normal role. There was discussion of it, by various people.
His role as per the flip was a D1 vig.

Eventually in the middle of the D1, CABD (fake shot TIAM)(Rhah 1322 out himself and TIAM as mason partners)
CABD then submitted his real shot via PM, and killed Dunker)

Spoiler: doing better

I had intended to do better job than this.
I will try and be back a bit later. RN my computer is acting up something chronic.
I borrowed a diff computer for a bit.

So I will just type some notes.
HST(GIF) posted a list of 4 topics to Quick to get him going you could look at those.

Anyway things to note
1. Cabd's lolclaim!
2. TIAM's posts in general
3. Joey/Alisae/Whiskers shenanigans
4. I guess a bit of talking about Axle?

1. What did they claim?
2. What about them?
3. What about them?
4. What about them?

At least we are getting somewhere.

I wouldve typed more if I wasnt at work right now.
So it's on you for now to do the digging.

Those are good starting point for catching uo anyway

There are now also Mason claims that came out

Oh my god you just shot my mason partner. I told him not to push on you not that long ago and he didn't say anything. I guess it's sort of my fault.

The mason partner had not been shot, as CABD had to PM the kill not announce it in the thread.

Clearly there is current interest in Flubber and Whiskers.
Other than isoing just them
you could look in the mods iso for any other less significant wagons that spark your interest.

That would likely miss(not get a clear picture) smaller post count players, who you could also then iso.

Some parts of the thread contain extensive back and forths, I find those those time consuming to try and understand motivations, and less informative. YMMV.
If you work around detailed reading of those, it would simplify the game bit for you.
(That said it is during long noisy section that the meat of my case against Whiskers arises)

Anyway welcome to the game, now we can dance. Even if tensions are little higher now.

Spoiler: critical junctures.

Around the time of the D1 vig shot.

HST(GIFs) opinions of the wagon were

I really don't think whiskers is scum here

I really don't think whiskers is scum here

How do you like your current vote?

Eh

CABDs were open ended enough he wanted to ask HST(GIF)

Mine were scummier Whiskers than HST. but probably about the same on Dunker. At that time my problem and hence why I was still parked off the wagon.
Was the greater potential loss to town by mishooting at town!Whiskers, was offsetting my marginally scummier read on him than Dunker.

If CABD had asked me, instead Id have said Dunker == meh.

By the time it came for an actual shot. HST(GIFs) opinion was here.

Gif?

Please shoot me

Wagons and counter wagons, End of D1

after the Vig shot.
Out of the gate the Whiskers wagon reformed.
by 1893 there were 3 wagons (WHiskers, Flubb, UCVoyager/(lucky)

by here things had shifted once.

Whiskers (4) - Alisae, Flubbernugget, Quick, AxleGreaser
Quick (4) - Whiskers, Cabd, beeboy, Joey_
Flubbernugget (3) - Nero Cain, HolySpiritTurtle, gerryoat

by here it had polarised onto the final two

Quick (6) - Whiskers, Cabd, UC Voyager, Nauci, Flubbernugget, Nero Cain
Flubbernugget (6) - HolySpiritTurtle, MathBlade, Joey_, Rhah, gerryoat, Quick

There was brief wibble wobble back to Whiskers.

Quick (7) - Whiskers, Cabd, UC Voyager, Nauci, Flubbernugget, AxleGreaser, gerryoat
Flubbernugget (5) - HolySpiritTurtle, MathBlade, Joey_, Rhah, Quick
Whiskers (2) - Nero Cain, I Am Innocent

Then eventually it settled down to being Quick.

Quick (9) - Whiskers, UC Voyager, Nauci, Flubbernugget, AxleGreaser, gerryoat, Nero Cain, beeboy, Joey_
Flubbernugget (5) - HolySpiritTurtle, MathBlade, Rhah, Quick, Cabd

Reading how each transition, occured is how I would go back and analyse the day after my first read through.

[AxleGreaser]

@Thread

Reasons that Whiskers is the most likely to flip scum today

I have some issues with whiskers ISO,
back in the range From about 253(iso) Onwards.

In that region: I find examples of him defending himself, or producing Filler.

See earlier posts for some examples or go read it yourself
Do not consider it as single post, but as Body of work.

Basically, I don't see Whiskers playing in the thread in that part of the game, with a towny intent.
Iso starting at 253(iso24) down to 2069(iso151)

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: How to interact with Axle, when you have NFI.

One of my issues is I am not really sure how i should approach interacting with Axle which makes this kinda tricky for me.

Say, Hi.
Then offer to dance.
Dance involves us, having issues of substance to talk about.
got some?

I could ask you why you vote flubber, but that would be his job.

@Axle you've mentioned my slot like 0 times this entire game even though I am one of the more active posters.
I can't really fulfill my scum agenda without knowing what your thoughts on me are so please help.

Okay ....

Lets talk about you.

Spoiler: active posters

did you subtract out the fluff out of the count first.

Sorry I am fluff posting, I am just not sure what I should be doing atm.
I just want to see how wagons play out at this point.
I also want the lurkers to start playing.

Without flips I find some part of that activeness noise i have to peer through.

ooo, I found a question.
Beeboy as my posts are easy to find substance in, is there any reason you have not chosen a bit of that to interact with me about?
unfortunately I think I know the most probable answer and its NAI.

Spoiler: unimportantly to me RN

I have not found places in your iso where I found an interesting question to ask.
Your stances (when considered in isolation) seemed to evolve in a measured way.(nothing pinged yet)

If you consider critical junctures spoiler in post, 2863 and

squint

real hard.
in 2187 you are on Quick, by 2452 you are off 2376 (to avoid L-1)
Then stay off. In 2462 when the wagons are back at 6-6
But Id be at conspiracy levels of ??? to be analysing that without a flubb flip. (preflip associations)

In terms of hi lets chat:
I be happier if your iso quoted who its responding to, as isoing you is pain to find out what the reply is too.

We are chatting, but its 5am here and i am getting up in 5 hours to go out for while.
sooo.

[AxleGreaser]

@Whiskers

I believe Rhahs question may be going here

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Spoiler: open if you want heads up onwhat i think is going on

If I'm the only one that's going to make cases this game, then I'm

only ever

going to vote my reads, and good fucking luck to the rest of you.

Whiskers could you quote your Alisae case for me please

Rhahs real question.
Rhah RQ: Why the sudden push for cases now?
Rhah RQ: When back before

on D1

you were prepared to do anything?

Whisk: Alisae was D1 wagon for reactions? To feel people out?

bad news is, Rhah: well that was why you should have been making stuff out of all those posts back then?

Whisk: yeah but if I went all casey and full certain of it, then if it was wrong, that would score double mislynch.
So on D1 your largely caseless vote was as strong as your read.

[AxleGreaser]

@Gerryoat

3 questions

Q1,Q2,Q3

please answer this time.
The earlier one I let slide, this one i do not intend to.

so now you say you are here.

ffs, i settled yesterday on a lynch, and it was a mislynch. i'm not settling anymore. you guys

lynch lucky, my vote isn't moving.

which implies considerable certainty in your lynch target.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

Q1

Which bits sold you?

Earlier i asked you this question, and you suddenly decide to lynch someone else.
and now you are so certain you proclaim you wont change targets.

Q2

What made you so certain?

Q3

That certainty appears to have come conveniently out of the blue. Please explain how this read of yours developed over time.

[AxleGreaser]

@gerry

I let it slide earlier and just awarded you maximish possible scum points for dodging this earlier question. 1753
especially the last part.

but id like you to explain away the problems as well.

[AxleGreaser]

noob or not, Nauci avoiding my questions makes me want that dead so much.

Does it make her scummy?
or just someone you want dead?

[AxleGreaser]

Hi, (if you dont know lookup what hi means. Yes, for now i mean that)(not all my questions are the same)(...)

Joey, look at Lucky's wagon. it's a good wagon. no scum on it.

U missed nauci

So your nauci scum read, started on the first 20 pages.

As of page 20 whiskers and nauci are my top 2 suspects.

Can you show me which posts made you read nauci as top scum back then?
How strong was that read.

[AxleGreaser]

@HST(GIF)

Hi, (yes that is a hi too)

I d like to chat, that will involve me asking things with ? at the at end.

@Thread

that is rather lot a exactly not like most questions i ask.

Iterated prisoners dilema, tit for tat edition.

<tit>

Spoiler: good faith stipulation

I watched your D1 play.
I watched things such as

VOTE: Flubber

I kinda don't care where you voted. I still wont care after I find out what your reads were.(in more detail)
I would need a very very good reason. (AKA nothing lame)
Any votes if they had "days structure" basis were fine.
(I dont even know if thats a thing, but ...)

What I want to know about is your reads.

I really don't think whiskers is scum here

<tat>
can you walk me through, how you got there.

When i talk to Whiskers about my reasons for voting him I just hear blah blah. (no offense, I mean what he says adds NAI to my existing read.)
So Id like to hear your views.

<tit>
I have started looking behind me. Behind the masons. Behind Cabd. Basically in the blind spot.
<tat>
What do you see?

[AxleGreaser]

@gerry

I let it slide earlier and just awarded you

maximish possible scum points

for dodging this earlier question. 1753
especially the last part.

but id like you to explain away the problems as well.

What this means

maximish possible scum points

Spoiler: not important unless you want to know

When i ask a question sometimes I just have NFI what your really saying and want to find out.
Sometimes i have range of plausible answers, some scum indicative, some town.
Sometimes that has an asymmetric range and before i hear the answer I may have no town or no scum options. Sometimes I get utterly surprised by the answer and get one outside my pre-existing range.
Sometimes, people don't answer. When they don't answer I assume they either wrongly judged it wasn't important, or every answer they had for why they did it looked scummy so they just cut their losses and dodged. (That gets

maximish possible scum points

)
Also quite occasionally just to keep people honest, and also because its useful, I dangle shiny things to see if people are really not all that committed to following through on what they are doing.

[AxleGreaser]

@Gerryoat

3 questions

Q1,Q2,Q3

please answer this time.
The earlier one I let slide, this one i do not intend to.

so now you say you are here.

ffs, i settled yesterday on a lynch, and it was a mislynch. i'm not settling anymore. you guys

lynch lucky,

my vote isn't moving.

which implies

considerable certainty

in your lynch target.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

Q1

Which bits sold you?

Earlier i asked you this question, and you suddenly decide to lynch someone else.
and now you are

so certain

you proclaim you wont change targets.

Q2

What made you so

certain

?

Q3

That certainty appears to have come conveniently out of the blue. Please explain how this read of yours developed over time.

i've wanted lucky slot since yesterday.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

2.

Certain of what? Someone I scumread?

I trust myself over someone elses reads.

3.

I"VE SCUMREAD HIM SINCE YESTERDAY.

why did you ask the same question like 3 times

Yes you did scum read him yesterday. But I checked and you had no where near this level of certainty.

And today when asked you have no explanation of how and where this newfound certainty came from.
You have magically appearing baseless

certainty

of reads, and distancing yourself from you Whiskers vote, but vaguely specifying I "sold you" on Whiskers. And then were unable or unwilling to specify which bits, did that.

Acts like scum smells like scum is scum.

UNVOTE: Whiskers << unvote at least pending talking to HST.

VOTE: Gerryoat

[AxleGreaser]

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: image lol

Axle:There is only one Shiro I accept no replacements. You do look cute in a dress though.

[....] nor I think Whiskers is scum!

For now your current read is your current read. (I am specifically asking you please

do not

to explain that)
I am trying to untunnel myself. What I want is only to understand your, early game whiskers lean(s).

What I want to ask you about is, very early stuff. If I can understand how you started your read. Then I will reread Whiskers again, I may wind up somewhere new.

I would be

sad

if Whiskers is scum.

Questions

Can you explain what you mean by that? Was it a bit of town read?
If so based on which posts? Id like to see if i can see it your way.
Before there I had noticed 187, was there more (that would make you

sad

?) or different to your view in 310
A handwavy fly by of my thoughts on whiskers (back there) is in 2728

This looks to be a stronger sentiment/read.

I really don't think whiskers is scum here

More Questions

If its stronger: why? (Which posts ,and why)
It was in the region of the last post to this one (after 253 ->his reads list) that I got scum vibes, and wrote my scum case.
use you own judgment on the second one.

If being

sad

was not the same as a town lean, (eg personally

sad

?), then why that(310) is, is probably not relevant. So if you gimme something on the first one that may be enough.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, tell me about this gerryoat vote

I am voting him as my top scum read (whiskers status is little weird atm; pending?)
(I do have views on the other wagons. Joey v Luck is little stale, and I might want to ask you one question to help me with that.)(in couple of hrs after i do my must do now tax return)

I am expecting response to 3359 so I prefer not to unpack everything about where it's going yet just yet.

If you want to see where its been,
Look at 2728, look at the next 3 posts posts and the time stamps. I got beetle juice the fucked out of. if they had appeared from under my desk and said "hi!", I might have felt nearly as freaked out. Absolutely nothing about the Gerry posts in particular rang true.

Nothing about 3123 (see 3141) swayed me 2731(VOTE: whiskers okay you sold me) was Ok.
3359 describes new issues his last answers created.
(if he was as certain as he has now explicitly claimed about UCV.
How was he so easily persuaded onto whiskers in such short time span?
Why the lack of detail about what was persuasive?
...
)

[AxleGreaser]

I am voting him as my top scum read (whiskers status is little weird atm; pending?)
(I do have views on the other wagons. [....] (in couple of hrs after [...]

Sorry about the couple of hours but things didnt work out like i expected.
I did however solve most of my issues for myself (still have things I want talk about but they are not required for me to reach a clear lynch order preference.)

Axle that's a vanity vote at the moment wouldn't you say.

Given the strength(+clarity) of the Gerry read, Gerry unresponsiveness about a range of issues. I have clear preference to lynch him, and little expectation more play will solve it.

The reason I am stuck there not consolidating. Is the rest of my lynch order preference and that at each point consolidating does get me to enough larger wagon to be justified.

My consolidation Lynch order is. Gerry > Whiskers > Viomi > || Flubb(1) > Lucky2u

(1) I am not sure I can justify, the order of Flubb > Lucky2u, without counter wagons and information, and Id much prefer to lynch Whiskers as the to way sort that out.
And that lynch order preference is not far off, the opposite of where the lynch seems to going today.

So yes I need to be participating in deciding todays lynch. I am I strongly think lynches on the far side of || are bad, and have not seen evidence that convinces me they are good lynches.

(I will be going out tonight, and will sleep sometime, but deadline is about 9pm my time, so there is no possibility I will not be here to act on that preference.)

So yeah that is, what is going to be for me getting off my vanity wagon. There isnt any one place I can put my vote that looks significantly more likely to flip, that I can put my vote.
However for anyone reading the thread. Thinking hey what wagons are viable, can decide which wagons they think are not viable and simply move my vote according to that list. And that where push comes to shove i will be voting.

[AxleGreaser]

I'd do Shiro.

vote:Shiro

To be better than random to flip scum. Youd have to be basing that on..?

The absences. A not fast enough catch up. lack of vote atm.

or do you have something else?

[AxleGreaser]

I might want to ask you one question to help me with that.

Spoiler: something you said earlier.

I believe i understand what you are saying here, or more specifically you said what it

did not

have to do with.

How do you know how scum Joey would have played it? With day chat, any of his teammates with more experience could have been coaching him.

It didn't have to do with his experience

Irrespective of his experience, there would be limits on what day chat, would allow his partners to do with who Joey is.
Especially so as to be consistent with his scum/town meta.

Spoiler: Example Joey(now Viomi) posts I simply cant get read out of.

Also not asking for help to be able, to. That is beyond the pale.
1095 "To be fair ..."
1852 1853 and the sequence leading up to it.
The problem is to work out whether its due to PM or not, I need to put myself in the shoes of the person who said those things, and at times I just cant dot hat with Joey. Was it Joey doing those things for scum motivation, or just what Joey would do as either alignment.

Spoiler: something you Rhah can perhaps help me with.

At the end of D1. Joey made this list of posts.

I'm not willing to lynch probtown, better to no lynch in my book.

But I've played in games where there have been last minute lynches, I wouldn't say today's outcome is already determined.

Dude, if quick isnt hammered the same wagon will form tomorow for the same reasons, they will claim that mafia forced a nl here, i will personnally hammer quick over a nl

You have no clue about what you are talking about, you fail at your conf town role

Imo this wont flip

@quick last words?

You're not very convincing.

About ? Do you know why we get a green flip when theres 3 clear town in game? Because you have no credibility and are vanity wagoning

VOTE: quick

We were not seriously at Hammer it or we were risking a NL.

The town wincon reason for Quick not to self hammer is it deprives town the information. Of whoever feels he is scummy enough to hammer casting the deciding vote.
Joey portrays himself and his vote as someone voting the wagon who believes it will flip town. 2656
Blames other people. 2655 2658
... (more if I look at the whole EOD sequence)

Both those serve a scum agenda. Arise from the conflict of wanting town lynched, and getting away clean without responsibility.
The flip is the fault of Quick, TIAM, anyone but Joey.
and if necessary later reimagined (see 1853 in previous spoiler)

My difficulty, is how to attribute that all to just Joey being Joey rather than a scum agenda.

IIRC, you have done just that. And you are effectively conf town.

Can you talk me through how?

because it is that and other stuff like that, where I have to balance Joey and what he would
post irrespective of town or scum PM, that i wouldn't
and what Joey knows of his own self meta that lets him exploit that to serve a scum agenda.

[AxleGreaser]

other than the random "hey she's scum lurking!" then I don't have a reason.

I prefer my description.

The absences. A not fast enough catch up. lack of vote atm.

but I think i have better reasons to lynch other people.
making people play or die, is thing if we are stuck.

[AxleGreaser]

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Deadline is November 1, 03:00 GMT-7 or in 1 day, 1 hour, 56 minutes.

I am going out for a bit (this time it is not a potential bottomless pit) be back in <6 hrs or so
I will be available for consolidation, in the lynch order previously specified all day (my time tomorrow)
After the || is lynching into my less likely than random to flip scum.

[AxleGreaser]

other than the random "hey she's scum lurking!" then I don't have a reason.

Hey, I am not lurking anymore, I simply dont have anything to talk about. I am here if adressed.

Who would you prefer to lynch out of the wagons most likely to get flipped?

Why?

[AxleGreaser]

@Gerry

back in 3359 I asked you number of questions that you have chosen to ignore.
I have made them harder to ignore.

Question 1

referring to Gerry's3144 Gerry said

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers?

Question 2

If you were so certain.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it >

truthfully

< sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

Why if it sold you was Whiskers not then your read?
Are you agreeing that the claim it sold you was a lie?

Question 3

When the vote count was 2080 WHisk(4) Flubb(4) UCV(2)
If you were, as certain, as you claim to have been.

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

Why did you just want the day to be over

rather than try to get your "all those show certainty,"(3145) scum read lynched?
Deadline was still at that point several days away.

and then you seemed entirely flippant about who you lynched.

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty largely reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: gerryoat

[AxleGreaser]

@thread

about Gerry.

Spoiler: latest outstanding questions with no answers, and apparently no intention of answering or being held accountable.

@Gerry

back in 3359 I asked you number of questions that you have chosen to ignore.
I have made them harder to ignore.

Question 1

referring to Gerry's3144 Gerry said

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers?

Question 2

If you were so certain.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it >

truthfully

< sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

Why if it sold you was Whiskers not then your read?
Are you agreeing that the claim it sold you was a lie?

Question 3

When the vote count was 2080 WHisk(4) Flubb(4) UCV(2)
If you were, as certain, as you claim to have been.

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

Why did you just want the day to be over

rather than try to get your "all those show certainty,"(3145) scum read lynched?
Deadline was still at that point several days away.

and then you seemed entirely flippant about who you lynched.

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty largely reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

latest example of thumbing of nose at playing for town at all

will we finally lynch lucky? find out next time on dragon ball z

So how is Gerry's play scum motivated?
Playing without accountability to maximise flexibility to do anything he wants. No actual evidence of him trying to figure the game out.
Just a willingness to vote whatever has the lowest levels of accountability.

and where did this Flubber vote come from?

So why is everyone voting flubber now?

I read and still don't get it

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

VOTE: gerryoat << intention to lynch

[AxleGreaser]

You've been voting him for the past two days.

Yes I have been asking Gerry questions for while. And then questions while voting, as the answers seemed a bit reluctant.

I am now done talking to gerry. now i am talking to the thread about gerry for the purpose of getting him lynched.

@thread about Gerry.
[...elided...]
<< intention to lynch

There is clearly no point in trying to talk to Gerry.

[AxleGreaser]

I already replied to you where i said i've been scumreading UC since day 1 and i explained, i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

yes i once I got you to commit to just how strong that scum read was. You have no explanation or reponse to this at all.

and all of it is contradictory to your claims about your reads certainty.

@Gerry

back in 3359 I asked you number of questions that you have chosen to ignore.
I have made them harder to ignore.

Question 1

referring to Gerry's3144 Gerry said

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers?

Question 2

If you were so certain.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it >

truthfully

< sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

Why if it sold you was Whiskers not then your read?
Are you agreeing that the claim it sold you was a lie?

Question 3

When the vote count was 2080 WHisk(4) Flubb(4) UCV(2)
If you were, as certain, as you claim to have been.

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

Why did you just want the day to be over

rather than try to get your "all those show certainty,"(3145) scum read lynched?
Deadline was still at that point several days away.

and then you seemed entirely flippant about who you lynched.

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty largely reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

The game is called mafia it involves talking to people. That is how you sort them out into town and scum. By responding that is how you let them sort you out.

You have something to hide and no explanation of your actions/intentions that you have been willing to provide. Your unwillingness speaks as loudly to your intent, as your earlier actions already have.

[AxleGreaser]

I mean Gerry has been on both mislynches. VCA is a thing but bad town and scum are going to look the same during VCA. If Gerry is town he's not going to give a shit, if Gerry is scum he'll care but his votes will be just as bad as if he were town. The only thing that makes me kinda wonder is him not death tunneling me this game.

I am sorry I dont get this style of making mafia reads.

Not sure anyone has said anything about VCA and Gerry, my problem is when I analyse what hes been doing it is not at all consistent with someone looking for scum; Reaching

self claimed certainty

; then acting on that. Indeed the questions above show him

doing other stuff altogether

. After he claimed he reached certainty on UCV he display by actions he had not. he did this

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

And yes his wagon was not the lead wagon, but he seemed pretty damn keen to be voting someone other than his certain read.

can we just end the day lol

who cares just vote quick

is everything Gerry can possibly do (vote anywhere at all)(vote inconsistently with his claimed certain reads) Ok with you.

but the magic potion is, if hes town he death tunnels Nero?

[AxleGreaser]

He just doesn't give a shit as town.

except about death tunneling you?

The only thing that makes me kinda wonder is him not death tunneling me this game.

[AxleGreaser]

not at all consistent with someone looking for scum;

it's not. He just doesn't give a shit as town.

This was him not giving a shit?

Spoiler: posts from diffrent game where gerry was town.

Gerry Trying as town.

Subject: Kidney Mafia (Game Over)
(A game where Gerry was town)

Are you actually defending Can It's contribution here and acting like I'M the problem?

never said you were the problem. how about instead of saying my posts are garbage, you try and engage me? kinda like, i'm doing to you now?

He even seemed to think engaging with people was something he did and others ought do.

Subject: Kidney Mafia (Game Over)

I'd rather be lynched while being right then just jump on a wrong wagon to not be lynched

CAUTION

Gerry is quite aware of his own style, and believes he can change it
Subject: Kidney Mafia (Game Over)

holy shit

gerry actually responding to posts

ok humour me, why are you diverting from the style of play ive seen you do as town multiple times now where you just enter thread, say "x is mafia" and disappear for 2 more days and then repeat "i really think x is mafia"

bad attempt to deflect, this is still scum.

but i will humour you. Because i don't play the same way as either town or mafia.

Indeed in that game RB scumread him for trying

Subject: Kidney Mafia (Game Over)

VOTE: gerryoat

Gerryoat is trying

This is unprecedented

He's probably scum

how many times do people have to be wrong about bad meta before they realize its bad meta?

also i havent even been trying so far, so this post is really bad. rb might be mafia here

Conclusion

: Simplistic meta like Nero just stated is unreliable

If Gerry is town aligned it is quite possible for him to choose to play.
It is even possible for him to choose to engage

how about instead of saying my posts are garbage, you try and engage me? kinda like, i'm doing to you now?

---

---

What I did not find in that Gerry town game was stuff like this

can we just end the day lol

especially not at a time he claimed to have a certain read on scum, but was busy wagon hopping to anyone pretty much at all to end the day.
Indeed his stated self meta from that game
Subject: Kidney Mafia (Game Over)

I'd rather be lynched while being right then just jump on a wrong wagon to not be lynched

is quite contradictory to him having certain UCV scum read and so totally failing to act on it for large portions of the game.

[AxleGreaser]

@Axe

I am not exactly town reading Gerry so I'm not sure where you are going with this. Are you saying that I should hard scum read him and stop being a bit waffley? Like I'd be totes down for lynching him if that's what you want to know.

I have a case on Gerry.

Your seeming claim: "Lols that is just gerry he doesnt care as town," <<paraphrased badly.
undercuts the scum indicative points i have made on him, citing personal knowledge of his meta.

Sure you substitute that with the to me lame reason to scumread him, hes not death tunneling you.

Your posting in effect tended to nullify my case and replaced it with lolsy "he is scum for not tunneling nero."
My apologies, I dont think that is your scum play,

but

it is

undercutting my case.

if you have a rational factual basis for it i am all ears.

but other than possible salt from
world record mafia 1 2 3 (+quite bit more)

I dont understand your claims about meta at all.
and frankly Gerry being drunk with powa on having hammered scum
viewtopic.php?p=9570754#p9570754
after earlier being at L-2
viewtopic.php?p=9558730#p9558730
that game makes fair bit of sense.

expecting in anyway that that is the meta you expect here is weird.

and bad.

[AxleGreaser]

So,

@

Not voting (3) - Shiro, beeboy, Nauci

who are you going to vote for?
and why?

[AxleGreaser]

I’ll go thru my notes on town Gerry later. Just trust me for now.

based on play (Gerry,

Gerry is obv town

I think later is now.

I don't see gerry as obv town.
His vote

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

Felt just as plausible as a weak assed bus vote. Or as a lynch one more towny he wont be held accountable for vote.
because apparently gerry == Lols

Can you explain what you think you are seing that i am missing. I dont even see pre flip associations for gerry == obv town.

[AxleGreaser]

@Axel
I think the point is that Gerry was being a shitty player, and he is a

shitty player as town

: therefore, it's

not-telling

here.

As I had to read both this game and skim a slab of Large normal 206 in order to make this read.

Q

Is Gerry expected to tunnel Nero like a trojan again or is there some contextual difference?

A

No. This game is different. (see spoiler below)

Q

Is gerry just always a

shitty player as town

or is it a choice? See 3891 For quotes from kidney mafia.

A

Which fairly robustly shows that Gerry chose to play the way he did in this game. Then he chose not to tell us the reason for that and instead replace out.

Spoiler: where that skim of Large normal 206 happened

if you have a rational factual basis for it i am all ears.

but other than possible salt from (large normal 206)
world record mafia 1 2 3 (+quite bit more)

I dont understand your claims about meta at all.
and frankly Gerry being drunk with powa on having hammered scum
viewtopic.php?p=9570754#p9570754
after earlier being at L-2
viewtopic.php?p=9558730#p9558730
that game makes fair bit of sense.

expecting in anyway that that is the meta you expect here is weird.

and bad.

So ta but I will be the judge of what i find

not-telling

.

We'll reread his slot by his replacement, when it comes in. For now, maybe you should vote the person you think Gerry was bussing?

and while you wanting to be voted is cute? and a bit weird...

What i actually said 3922 was.

Felt just as plausible as a weak assed bus vote.

OR

as a lynch one more towny he wont be held accountable for vote.

So no my read on Gerry is independent of whether it was him bussing whiskers or him trying to hitch another consequence free ride on town lynch. just like he had been doing all game.
If my suspicion of him depended on you flipping scum and that being bussing then of course you would have to flip first. But it doesn't.

and now, as per 3922, Id like to know how that looks >obv town< to IaI

[AxleGreaser]

I have no history with Axle

Oh then I don't understand his first post then!

Me neither. I don't know how to feel about him using his vote to gerryoat who quite clearly didn't give a fuck and not much else. Aren't you scum?

oops.

@nauci

Regarding meta: This is out of date little but sufficient. Axles wiki page

@nauci and Rhah

regarding first post, and Axles ideas on fairness.

Spoiler: first post

This post in my first game on site ever, viewtopic.php?p=5900027#p5900027
disclosed to Bulbazack that i had read lot of games.(hinting pretty hard at his) That was at least in part so that I didnt ambush him later with deep knowledge of his meta. It was also an experiment with a bit of a reaction test on crack.
This games first post had no reactions test aspect intended. I was mainly about pregame fairness. The intention do it was made pregame, as fairness.
I thought it only fair to tell rhah I had at that point read every post he had made on this site with the same level scrutiny that normally only players in the still ongoing game have.

Thus while Rhah has no experience with me, a the start of the game i had about the same experience with him as if I was an uninformed unflipped player in his ongoing game. The asymmetry of that, especially if its surprise seemed unfair.

Worse. Although i didn't mention it UCV also has ongoing games. Without making him "deer in the headlights", my statements to Rhah probably told UCV i had seen his posts and analysed him as well. Also my intention.
ALSO I assert a pregame one.

Pretty sure my meta makes that all obvious.

---

Me neither. I don't know how to feel about him using his vote to gerryoat who quite clearly didn't give a fuck and not much else.

Yes Gerryoat made no effort to find scum. Thats kind of the point. He made none and when i read his meta it bacame clear to me he could have but hose not to. He also could if he chose engage with people at more depth than he was willing to.
Can you find town reason for his unwillingness?

[AxleGreaser]

Yeah, but the reason you even scumread him was because he sheeped your vote onto me.

and it was

the way

he sheeped; it looked

totally sketch

whether you are

scum

or

town

. It added to my earlier problems with the (Gerry/smocaine) slot dodging accountability for its actions, or having a willingess to explain them.(2141) Total flexibility in who got lynched whether that lined up with his reads or not. Rather, mainly, not to do specifically with you at all really.

Do you no longer scumread me? If that's the case, why?

Yes I still scum read you more than other people.
Yes if i consolidate off the gerry wagon it would be next preference onto yours.

And if you do still scumread me, why is

Gerry more likely scum

?

Why would you attack him for allegedly playing to his town meta

, then replacing out?

I didn't do

that

. His meta was as shown to be malleable. Thus his choice not to play in this game were actual choices by intent not just meta as some people claimed.

His choices that went against towns interests were scum motivated

.

Your read of him doesn't depend on me being scum, but you've never stopped scumreading me. There's no reason for you not to use his "consequence free ride" motivation to lynch me, your scumread.

You flipping scum or town wont change my read on Gerry. I read gerry as scum for gerry's scummy by choice play, not for pre flip associations.

I think your viewpoint is all fucked up:

So far from what you've said, you must think Gerry and I are scum, and he's bussing me?

But like, if that were the case, you'd be just as happy to vote/lynch me today (or yesterday, when this started), and then use my scumflip to incriminate Gerry, right?

Bullshit is noted and struck out.

No I think Gerry is scum, for gerrys actions.
I think you may well be scum. (a single case on you that is not simply "counterwagons!!! Yolo", is much harder to see. That would be why pretty much no one except me tried to write a substantive one.)

My problem with you is that the case i wrote on you got old. It referred to your D1 play. I have not yet got a satisfactory scum case for the rest of your play. (I dont recall anyone else writing one either.)
That plus the fact that you were actually willing to play in the game, made me case Gerry. That people were sheeping, a known to me, to be a lack lustre case uncritically. Really pissed me off. Ive been wrong and tunneled the fuck out of people before. Ruining another game like that, was not on my agenda when i signed up.

I am pretty keen to lynch Gerry. If other people want to lynch you, then without me on the wagon they will at least be compelled to pony up their own reasons. Lols wagons are unaccountable BS wagons.
EG if lucky flips scum, what real associations will it make. Its voters have typically been lols sheep votes.
if Lucky flips town, Its voters have typically been lols sheep votes and they will then play pin the (emotive)"blame" on the masons.
Accountability is people voting wagons with reasons.
Apart from me reading Lucky as townish, that wagon has been annoying me all game for its lack of accountability.

[AxleGreaser]

- gerry seems to just be

coasting

around, which is a scumread on anyone but gerry because in the one (two?) games I've been in,

coasting

is all they've really done.

Ok so your two games were: Large Normal 206 gerry iso and Mini normal 1921

I agree they were both quite a bit

coasting

, especially min normal 1921

Spoiler: serious coasting

Subject: Mini Normal 1921 - Town Win

i want to hear actual content from maria and gerry

to which he replied.
Subject: Mini Normal 1921 - Town Win

dont have any yet. leave a message at the tone and i'll get back to you when i have some. bye!

*beeeeeeeeeeeeep*

Spoiler: but there was real world reason

Subject: Mini Normal 1921 - Town Win

transcend, i still think you're scum based on meta, and double bussing is something that is still possible

VOTE: transcend

if you're town, sry.

i shouldnt even still be in this game cause of the minimal amount of effort i've put in this game cause i was on vacation, but i'd feel bad subbing out of games, so i'll see this to the end.

This I looked at earlier.

Spoiler: Large 206 is very lolsy and laissez-faire

and yes it is very lolsy
viewtopic.php?p=9549342&user_select%5B% ... 2#p9549342

OKAY im day cop with a guilty on osuka. lynch it.

but is quite unlike this game where:

on this basis of this evidence 3144 Gerry claims gerry was certain of his UCV read.

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

Spoiler: But then gerry has no explanation why he failed to act in accordance with that claimed certainty all these times.

I already replied to you where i said i've been scumreading UC since day 1 and i explained, i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

yes i once I got you to commit to just how strong that scum read was. You have no explanation or reponse to this at all.

and all of it is contradictory to your claims about your reads certainty.

@Gerry

back in 3359 I asked you number of questions that you have chosen to ignore.
I have made them harder to ignore.

Question 1

referring to Gerry's3144 Gerry said

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers?

Question 2

If you were so certain.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it >

truthfully

< sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

Why if it sold you was Whiskers not then your read?
Are you agreeing that the claim it sold you was a lie?

Question 3

When the vote count was 2080 WHisk(4) Flubb(4) UCV(2)
If you were, as certain, as you claim to have been.

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

Why did you just want the day to be over

rather than try to get your "all those show certainty,"(3145) scum read lynched?
Deadline was still at that point several days away.

and then you seemed entirely flippant about who you lynched.

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty largely reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

The game is called mafia it involves talking to people. That is how you sort them out into town and scum. By responding that is how you let them sort you out.

You have something to hide and no explanation of your actions/intentions that you have been willing to provide. Your unwillingness speaks as loudly to your intent, as your earlier actions already have.

So I agree Gerry normal play is quite laid back, lolsy, laissez-faire, and number of polite euphamisms, including

coasting

.

I disagree that is complete and accurate assessment of what happened in this game.

What I don't see in that meta is Gerry claiming to have found scum with some certainty, and then not crowing about it from the roof tops.

---

---

@Flairs

Question

Do you have examples where you have seem him find scum with some certainty then do nothing much about it?
and for instance Gerry:"just want day 1 to be over tbh." (while he has a claimed by him certain read on UCV).

[AxleGreaser]

okay but gerry is out of the game

Yes he is, right after i posted the questions he couldn't and wouldn't answer.

also from experience, meta'ing gerry is a bad idea.

I agree, gerry says so too. (I can get meta on him saying that if you like.)(I can even get meta on that being correct.)
BUT I am kinda sorta not.

Other people are excusing Gerrys blatantly scummy play with meta

, saying he always does that.
(go tell them it is bad idea. I have been.)
but when I actually look at his meta, either no he doesn't always do that. or what the did in this game is not what they said he did. He did not coast in this game, he claims to have found scum with some certainty and then has no explanation for why he then basically did nothing about it.

so tell me what you think about smocaine since he's the person in the slot now

I dont like smocaine a lot either.
He seems survival focussed, willing to vote anywhere. I have bad feeling, that if I look, this will be his meta.

before i bother doing that do you want to tell me if looking at smocaine meta and playstyles is in your view, also a waste of time?

and then there is that...

[AxleGreaser]

also as someone who was in one of the game you metadived with gerry, i don't think it's a reliable game at all

gerry didn't give a fuck all game and that probably wasn't due to his alignment. we joined the game with a bunch of buds but most of them replaced out d1.

I agree with that too.

and thus using his behavior there as an excuse why he didnt do anything once he had what he described as certain read on UCV,
is not excused by meta.

My argument is the meta being used to excuse his play is false, faulty, wrong.

[AxleGreaser]

Viomi feels like reckless scum, particularly throughout page 172. She's heated and then is randomly on Whiskers? (I understand the heated part, not the Whiskers part though)

I have had an initial look at this,

Spoiler: I do have a problem though

I have walked a mile in shoes perhaps a bit like Viomi's
In masquerade i was in related situation.

As I said real life impaled my head this game(masquerade). I realized way to late I really should have replaced out. That had an impact on my wordiness, I could see that in hindsight in my posting style just not while I was writing it.
I just have a thing against me replacing out except for a specific set of reasons.
(primarily unexpected absence, Eg: currently not considering signing up for any games as I know I will be going on a trip soonish.)
(I had never thought about whether an unexpected untimely death in family was in or out. Its now in.)
(A different somewhat expected death in the family I think wont be a problem... Its the unexpectedness that got me.)

Willingly going back to that state of mind to understand Viomis, "heated" mental process is not an easy voluntary decision. It still tilts me.
That said:

Spoiler: posts that i found relevant

Viomi's last reasons based read on Whiskers.

You won't get me for

Whiskers. He's one of the only people making sense in this game

.

Viomi's last "reasons" based scumlist.

You(Nero), Transcend, and maybe

smocain

.

My reasons have been given and are pretty obvious anyways.

Yep this is strong emotions based reaction to whiskers.

[..whiskers stuff..]
Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

Then this question to Nero. And sure he could be looking to settle? From exhaustion? And cant suggest to Nero a list including Nero.

Fine.

Which do you think is more likely to be scum,

Whiskers

, Nauci, or Transcend?

But
why

Whiskers

?
why nauci
What happened to

smocain

as an option?
Esp Given 20 mins earlier:

You won't get me for Whiskers. He's one of the only people making sense in this game.

I can't even think he started from here as smocaine was a lynch option they shared.

Nauci-I'm not doing Flaris today, pick one of


MathBlade
Viomi

Smocaine

Whiskers
Nauci

Can 4275 above? explain the whiskers bit of it?

TLDR: I cant find a line of reasoning (emotive or rational) whereby he didn't just straight somehow forget he recently claimed he would not be got to vote whiskers.

I think Viomis was not all that certain what Viomis reads were.
and then
Why even ask nero?

I still have more questions than answers about the stuff on page 172.

I hope sleeping on that will bring clarity.

[AxleGreaser]

Seeking clarity (lots of it)

@ #4470 I thought Viomi was asking what Nero's scum reads were, not necessarily considering them?

#4470 << is a mathbalde post.

#4480 Is a Whiskers post talking about what I(Axle) found in viomi posts. If that is what you are referring too?

Then yes i left out what was so obvious to me, which was not only did Viomi ask Nero

[..nero post..]Fine.

Which do you(nero) think is more likely to be scum, Whiskers, Nauci, or Transcend?

but Viomi then acted on it

VOTE: Whiskers

with almost no extra thought.

The number mess up is nothing (stuff happens)

Were you unaware Viomi had then followed up of nero read recommendation and acted on it?
Thus not only necessarily considered them but sheeped them.

[AxleGreaser]

Same question to Axle, while I would actually support that wagon, it does not look likely

It does not look likely to me either. It is however my clear preference.
My earlier lynch order preference is still in play or I would have told you. AKA batter number 2 is Whiskers.

Viomi vs Math, is till pending.

[AxleGreaser]

vote Nauci, Axe.

I have not gone back and considered it in detail all at once. But while there are questions,
I am pretty sure I don't think Nauci is more likely to flip scum than whiskers my second preference.

so no.

[AxleGreaser]

The lovely Mathblade wagon is my brainchild.

I like this.
this is a good catch. `

Yes it was good catch by Flairs.

Viomi feels like reckless scum, particularly throughout page 172. She's heated and then is randomly on Whiskers? (I understand the heated part, not the Whiskers part though)

I painted in the details.
True; doing so hurt my soul. Catch not mine. Validation mine.
You appear to have me mixed up with smocaine. Pls dont be doing that.
k ta tia.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP I justread this instead of wrote it and it implies the wrong thing.. .sorry.
I will be clearer.

This Information for reference only

The lovely Mathblade wagon is my brainchild.

---

---

---

---

This post conceptually?? starts here.

[..elided Allthe stuff whiskers liked..](follow link if you need reminding what it was.)
I like this.
this is a good catch. `

Yes it was good catch by Flairs.

Viomi feels like reckless scum, particularly throughout page 172. She's heated and then is randomly on Whiskers? (I understand the heated part, not the Whiskers part though)

I painted in the details.
True; doing so hurt my soul. Catch not mine. Validation mine.
You appear to have me mixed up with smocaine. (see ref materials). Pls dont be doing that.
k ta tia.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, thoughts? Are you still on smocaine?

Yes as per subsequent to your question: 4511

also in case its not clear 4508 has questions for you.
I failed to be able to make sense of an earlier post of yours.

[AxleGreaser]

I still don't know what you are saying with that post axel.

Whiskers attributed a good catch to me. (4480)
I declined credit for the good catch, it belonged to flairs(4427).
I went and did the leg work to turn it into analysis (4479).

I didn't even actually reach conclusion. I am hoping that by extracting the relevant information from the dross and sleeping on it I will get clarity.

So far no joy.
I woke this morning and wrote a 1000+ word critical essay on the nature of mankind instead.

[AxleGreaser]

I vote for massclaim.

Mass claim looks fine to me.

for now
VOTE: smocaine

Also I am fairly willing to consolidate Assemblerotws

Spoiler: TLDR: of the reasons Joey was scum

Joey slot spent the whole game trying to be both close to and distanced from the lynches he was on or spruked for.
he both spruked hard for and denied connection responsibility for the Dunker lynch
1426 both adds on with reason but discounts vote as OMGUS. WHy quote the reason if its OMGUS? Why not quote the thing that OMGU"Sucked" if OMGUS is really the votes reason?
OMGUS is easier to walk back later. <<joey distancing while also voting, for apparent reasons.
After blaming Bird 1853 Also claim innocence as he would have according to him previously stated he wanted him shot over lynched. 1426

Despite seemingly claiming to "know" QUick was green flip, he hammered with time on the clock.
and then immediately before quick said he was VT was back pedaling and distancing
2666 2667 2668

Spoiler: reasons Viomi is likely scum come in two parts

TLDR: The exact way the claim was made looks hinky to me. Esp where they tried to keep options open on actions. That felt calculated not emotive

and then there was Viomi first listing her former town read as a lynch option and then voting here former town read with no reasons at all.

Viomi's last reasons based read on Whiskers.

You won't get me for

Whiskers. He's one of the only people making sense in this game

.

Viomi's last "reasons" based scumlist.

You(Nero), Transcend, and maybe

smocain

.

My reasons have been given and are pretty obvious anyways.

Yep this is strong emotions based reaction to whiskers.

[..whiskers stuff..]
Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

Then this question to Nero. And sure he could be looking to settle? From exhaustion? And cant suggest to Nero a list including Nero.

Fine.

Which do you think is more likely to be scum,

Whiskers

, Nauci, or Transcend?

But
why

Whiskers

?
why nauci
What happened to

smocain

as an option?
Esp Given 20 mins earlier:

You won't get me for Whiskers. He's one of the only people making sense in this game.

I can't even think he started from here as smocaine was a lynch option they shared.

Nauci-I'm not doing Flaris today, pick one of


MathBlade
Viomi

Smocaine

Whiskers
Nauci

Can 4275 above? explain the whiskers bit of it?

TLDR: I cant find a line of reasoning (emotive or rational) whereby he didn't just straight somehow forget he recently claimed he would not be got to vote whiskers.

I think Viomis was not all that certain what Viomis reads were.
and then
Why even ask nero?

and while the question is inexplicable

VOTE: Whiskers

Acting on it makes no sense as townie who is trying to find and then lynch their scum reads at all.

Also not super keen on Assembles drive by post at day start.

[AxleGreaser]

Math is the only one I'm confidant on, and Axle is admittadly omgus because after yesterday's lynxh I feel pretty townie.

Math is the only one I'm confidant on, and Axle is admittadly omgus because after yesterday's lynxh I feel pretty townie.

You "feel" pretty townie? I would think you would know.

yeah

what on earth did you mean to say?

[AxleGreaser]

they are there,

did you have some theory better than this one?

just ignore Axe. I think he could maybe be scum with Nauci.

have you gone back to believing Smocaine cant be scum because Gerry didnt tunnel you?

because i thought we settled that

though I guess you

ARE

right, that he was much more active in world record than here.

vote:Gerry

[AxleGreaser]

I feel like obvtown. I didn't think the meaning was that difficult to parse.

It gets much harder to parse for me because you look like Obv scum.

Admittedly at least as much for your predecessors scummy play

Spoiler: which bit of say these 3 votes do you say is obv town

That's fine for now. VOTE: Mathblade

I was more comfortable with the Mathblade wagon, but life isn't about being comfy. VOTE: Nauci

VOTE: Mathblade sick him dog

The last one made me suspect you knew Math would flip town. And were overjoyed to see someone esle do your dirty work

[AxleGreaser]

I am VT.

[AxleGreaser]

Axe, I had spent alot of time early game suggesting that you were maybe active lurking scum. I did have some other reason to suspect you but I don't feel like going through my ISO to find it.

So basically about as much bullshit as this was then.

Spoiler: Nero read progression

I've also changed my mind a bit. I'm starting to think its a Nauci/IaI/???/??? scum team.

more when I decide.

Math with a shit town read on Whiskers would be a thing. Maths content is also ass. I'd shed zero tears if we lynch that slot. I also don't remember anything about Math talking about Nauci or IaI.

maybe a Nauci/IaI/Math/???? team?

vote Nauci, Axe.

I have not gone back and considered it in detail all at once. But while there are questions,
I am pretty sure I don't think Nauci is more likely to flip scum than whiskers my second preference.

so no.

just ignore Axe. I think he could maybe be scum with Nauci.

I got to be scum by being polite when i told you to go away.

[AxleGreaser]

Why frame my townieness on 3 posts only?

Your

towniness

is in your imagination. But who you vote is pivotal to the day. And your votes spoke of being pretty flexible in who you lynched, like your predecessor.

But hey if you want to tell the smocaine obv town story you will have to pick which posts were obv towny, because i did not see them.

[AxleGreaser]

My bad

I don't need to tell the story. Just read

I forgot which slot you were for a bit,

It's word soup; have a bite.

I thought you were being serious. Derp me.

[AxleGreaser]

At least I haven't seriously fumbled the game into a probably maf sweep.

It aint over until your slot wriggles out of getting lynched by word soup, and dodging responsibility for its votes 2 more times.

Math and Axel's pushes on me are a dupsterfire. They both boil down to, "smocaine is obvscum." with zero backing.

Spoiler: try reading the game

I already replied to you where i said i've been scumreading UC since day 1 and i explained, i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

yes i once I got you to commit to just how strong that scum read was. You have no explanation or reponse to this at all.

and all of it is contradictory to your claims about your reads certainty.

@Gerry

back in 3359 I asked you number of questions that you have chosen to ignore.
I have made them harder to ignore.

Question 1

referring to Gerry's3144 Gerry said

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

If you were so certain.

Why so easily persuaded onto whiskers?

Question 2

If you were so certain.

VOTE: whiskers

okay you sold me

and if it >

truthfully

< sold you.
Then scum reading whiskers now would also be your read.

1. All of it sold me, but I don't want to change anymore. I want to follow my reads

Why if it sold you was Whiskers not then your read?
Are you agreeing that the claim it sold you was a lie?

Question 3

When the vote count was 2080 WHisk(4) Flubb(4) UCV(2)
If you were, as certain, as you claim to have been.

i just want day 1 to be over tbh.

VOTE: flubber

Why did you just want the day to be over

rather than try to get your "all those show certainty,"(3145) scum read lynched?
Deadline was still at that point several days away.

and then you seemed entirely flippant about who you lynched.

I Do Not Like This Wagon.

ok then i'll join another wagon VOTE: whiskers

What looked so good about the wagon?

That lucky wagon looks so good

It looks to me like you want wagon where no one will ask you why you are on it.
Especially not ask you for more than empty largely reasonless statements such as those listed in 3144

i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you

The game is called mafia it involves talking to people. That is how you sort them out into town and scum. By responding that is how you let them sort you out.

You have something to hide and no explanation of your actions/intentions that you have been willing to provide. Your unwillingness speaks as loudly to your intent, as your earlier actions already have.

and Gerrys "answer" to those questions was not even word soup.

He simply bailed.

replace out

it isnt fair to the rest of you for me to do this, so i'll just bounce. my first ever replace out. congrats you guys!!!! to whoever replaces me, good luck reading this shit show lol.

There was lots of backing, so much backing it got no answers at all.
and then you turn up and want to sell us with word soup.

[AxleGreaser]

Imma be on every lynch this game, woo.

Whiskers has been on every town wagon.

VCA means nothing anymore?

I sure hope it means something.

but i am going to be pissed off if Gerry, got caught, ran away and got away with that.
Then Smocaine replaces in and got away with word souping that out of existence, while town simply said:.... Lols gerry.

but tomorrow can we please play the actual game, you know reading and reasoning, and who is scum

and why

, and stop playing Lols.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: Assemblerotws

@Assemblerotws

So who did you JK last night?

[AxleGreaser]

Quick summary of MB's voting history.

Um yeah, you will also need to consider the state of the wagons, when he did those. yeah?

Are you after mass claim still, or do you straight up disbelieve the claim like i do.

Viomi was tilted as per the analysis in this post
viewtopic.php?p=9735379#p9735379

That is sufficient explanation for the replace out.

However the claim is different

Replace out happened at (Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:47 am) in my TZ
Viomi got voted by 3 people (the wagon was rolling)
claim: town jailkeeper ( Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:14 am ) half an hour later, emotive ragey viomi is watching the thread and sees the wagon and acts. That was a rational not an emotive act.
Why include town <<< is nt that self evident when you are town. (yeah i dont know I like that either, it just feels wrong)(LAMIST)(meh one more pebble)

So was the choice not to claim actions. (there is more emotive noise)

Why do this, if it not to give the replacement flexibility to make up the actions they want to?

Anyways, my replacement will tell you what I targeted.

also

@TIAM

are you still voting for a mass claim? You started it but that idea seemed to get lost.

[AxleGreaser]

So... Assemble huh? Yea I definitely didn't like the Joey or Viomi slot until that claim. That's where my doubt started.

Are you saying the claim made you see the slot townier, as in the claim looks legit?

please see post above for why i don't.

[AxleGreaser]

Yes I am in favor of a massclaim, but I doubt it will get anywhere.

You got I think some claims yesterday, then it fizzled when the lynch rocketed through.

If you are serious about wanting it before a wagon on the claimed PR goes through. unvote ... would I think be a pretty simple way to pretty much make it happen.

Voting Ass and calling (quietly) for the mass claim is bit mixed as a signal.

[AxleGreaser]

It's not useless. It's someplace to start.

I'd prefer starting at the list of posts you made as they link to where the votes happened to get context.

[AxleGreaser]

Lucky why didn't you claim yesterday?

I will

probably

not vote ass.

Um.

What will what you

probably

do depend on?

[AxleGreaser]

I think I'm leaning an Axe, Lucky or Whiskers wagon. I don't necessarily think that Math defending the snot out of Whiskers makes it town. Luckys quick hammer on Math was terrible and I looked back in my post log. UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing. Axe has only pushed two town (likely a 3rd since I'm leaning heavily on ass town atm) the lack scumhunting is really nasty and him being nitpicky with TIAM while they are voting ass together is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Will you please stop making stuff up. You appear to trying to sidle up backwards to claiming you scum read me.
But you are doing so by misrepresenting me.

My consolidation Lynch order is. Gerry > Whiskers > Viomi > || Flubb(1) > Lucky2u

3 people one of whom you currently scum read. Another of whom(gerry) you have agreed was scummy and voted yourself.

pedit. Apparently the sidling up to it is over.

[AxleGreaser]

him being nitpicky with TIAM

Which nit picky?

[AxleGreaser]

also you have not answered what your voting or not voting Ass

probably

depends on or is that keep your options open post?

[AxleGreaser]

also you have not answered what your voting or not voting Ass

probably

depends on or is that keep your options open post?

Wouldn't you like to know, scumbag.

Yes I would like to know which is why I asked.

You appear to be keeping your options open.

[AxleGreaser]

What option would that be?

This one

also you have not answered what your voting or not voting Ass

probably

depends on or is that keep your options open post?

[AxleGreaser]

What option would that be?

like I'm not going to just blab everything I'm thinking so you and your scumbuddies can know what I'm thinking and counter me.

I didnt ask you to blab everything.

However being transparent so that other town players can work out whether you reads are genuine or based on TMI is town play 101,
I am pretty sure, you can't not know that.

Even if you have somehow with no substantive basis got the point where you claim a 100% scumread on me, you need to be transparent so other townies know you are genuine.

Your stance on refusing to explain your play, and purposeful keeping of your options open regarding Ass, is devoid of merit, and TBMK you should know it is.
Frankly you should know it is as both town and scum.
So currently your play is confusing me, as simply not reasonable or plausible.

[AxleGreaser]

maybe, but at the same time I don't really want to lynch a confirmed pr based on maybe.

What is confirmed about the Ass PR at all.

It looks hinky as hell, when it was expediently made. And since then with its actions.

[AxleGreaser]

What is confirmed about the Ass PR at all.

just that I believe it.

and while your POV is believing ass's claim your stated read (position on voting Ass or not) is

I will probably not vote ass.

is that what you are telling me?

[AxleGreaser]

This is a completely different axel then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

Is there some sense in which which you are suggesting that is AI in any way at all?
because yes i would agree, I am playing differently. I think its an improvement.

VCA shows no interaction between him or MathBlade either.

I also believe VCA shows no interaction (voting) between me and Rhah, UCV, CABD, or list of other people.

other than vote and words I not seeing you say I have been doing anything that is scum indicative at all.

Looked at the vote counts, think myself and axel look the worst at this point.

Which parts of your vote counts make you look bad? I had viewed your consistent desire to lynch whiskers in positive light.
and then which bits on my voting makes me look bad?

[AxleGreaser]

At axel, your other play style was very confrontational and not likely a successful way to remain unlynched as scum, so yeah I do see it as AI.

I see your other questions but 100 MB of data goes really quick internationally. Basically did not see you or math ever vote each other, your slot and mine were 2 of the few I saw that on.

um what does 100 MB of data have to do with? If you are saying talk is cheap so is wagin hopping votes that wont ever lynch the person just voted.

and yet in that game and others, I did remain unlnyched. So nice theory. So your claim is not aligned with objective truth.
The reason I often remain unlynched is I play with transparent game that explains what i am doing. That way people get to see what i am doing.
What you appear to be doing is looking for a way i can be called scum. A theory in search of facts.

then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

and did that ***** play style help town lot? o just make lots of noise?
Did that playstyle let people just run away and say *****, whereas this game me questioning people resulted (coincidently) in them replacing out, then flipping town.
Pretty sure that, whenever I questioned somebody seriously this game they felt pressured, just hopefully less shitty(real or fake) about it.

Wat?

You also did not see me vote a range of other slots. I am often not the kind of player, vote hops like mexcian jumping bean, I find questioning like I did with Nauci to be quite enough pressure. Thats how I worked out they were likely town, Reading that was how other people should have. Same with Flubb. And then my vote gets used when people refuse to answer as Gerry did.

So what is it about you being focussed on voting smaller number of people that is supicious about your play? To me it seemed to arise out having reads that the rest of town consistently didnt lynch so you kept voting them.
I do agree that even taking post count, you are a bit on the low end. And if we considered what was in the posts word count, it still would be.

So do you have reasons for this

Not a bad list, tho joey is pretty townie

and this

I town read you early on. Like pretty hard. So I want to sort you out to see if I'm right, and also want to allow you the chance to sort me out if I'm right. If I'm wrong, well then you are just scum pushing for a mislynch.

I don't see how you reached those conclusions.

[AxleGreaser]

I have noticed you, and been wary of you. But you know as town that’s how we always feel about each other. Pretty sure one of you and axel is scum so willing to flip him first.

Why the double header of one or (and then) the other?

I am not seeing where that idea comes from in your ISO.
Closest I got was back when, you were scumreading nauci as scum claiming, and doubting why Nero was scum reading Gerry, who for you was obv town.
Also you never did answer, 3922

(yes i know his slot has since flipped town but ...)
can you explain how your read of Gerry as Obv town back then. I made rather a lot of case on why people were using meta badly to town read him. You never disagreed with what i said just said he was obv town.

How did you know?
How was anyone else to know to believe you?

[AxleGreaser]

and so begins the great IaI/Axe distancing.

So are you answering this?

What is confirmed about the Ass PR at all.

just that I believe it.

and while your POV is believing ass's claim your stated read (position on voting Ass or not) is

I will probably not vote ass.

is that what you are telling me?

or are you still riding this.

yeah, we'll see where things go today.

and this isn't getting better.

Your stance on refusing to explain your play, and purposeful keeping of your options open regarding Ass, is devoid of merit, and TBMK you should know it is.
Frankly you should know it is as both town and scum.
So currently your play is confusing me, as simply not reasonable or plausible.

[AxleGreaser]

You do know how convenient that looks right?

Anyway, let me reinforce Viomi's eventual claim for targets. Joey targeted beeboy N1, Viomi targeted Nero Cain N2, I went for Math N3, and TIAM was my N4 target.

Your slot doesn't protect the obv shot of CABD night 1 scum shoot them.
You don't protect Rhah the night scum shoot them,
you do protect TIAM the night scum choose to shoot elsewhere.

In terms of play, your result looked like evidence of some level math was not scum (at least he wasnt the one who sent in the kill)

Anyway, I see my predecessor already claimed. I Jailkept Mathblade last night because I figured he was scum.

VOTE: Mathblade

So you presented evidence he was less likely than before to be scum then voted him anyway. Just to double up how suspicious you were but leaving no real weight to the wagon except your reasonless vote.
looks like distancing not a read and vote to get your read lynched.

If you are town please play mafia.

[AxleGreaser]

This is also talking away from the criticism that Ass shouldn't have voted Math after blocking. Like that's a really crummy argument and you should have enough experience to understand that by now.

I'm explaining Lucky's reasoning, not that I agree with it (which I said in 5005). Also, like I said before, reading through 4000 pages isn't worth it, so I haven't read through the entire game and probably won't end up doing so

I am not certain I understand what either of you are quite saying but neither of you seems to grasp the point.

Put your self in the position of a

townie JK

.

Spoiler: does town JK make sense with what he did?

examinign the possibility that Ass is town!JK and does that gel with what he thought and did.

To put ourselves in the mindset Ass claims to have had:

We assume that:

You as a town!JK you have scum read. It is such big scum read that you will want it lynched whether your JK block works or not. (if it doesn't work that is some evidence the guy isn't scum) but for you he is scum no matter what. (that is where Ass's head was supposedly as town JK at)

First

is that from Ass's perspective, actually a good offensive block or would person that scummy not send in the shot?

Second

if the guy is so scummy that voting them at the start of day with no reasoning is going to be a good play, why waste the block looking for more, overkill, evidence.

So I just don't get the block itself, it does not gel with claimed reads, or the strength of the claimed reads.

Next at day break. Bummer your block didn't catch him as he didn't send in the kill. That

weakens

the possible case hes scum.
Ass states that and then does the what ought be to a town JK the contradictory thing of vote them anyway.
With no explanation. That did not happen

because

there was no result to analyse.

Flairs suggestes that is "

wayy too big of a slip

".... (I disagree)

I understand that it's weird that he voted his target, but I feel like it would be

wayy too big of a slip

to mention who you targeted and vote that same person all within the same post. And that post is like 3 lines long.

but if you back up and run through that as scum fake claiming JK. It is not a big slip.

Spoiler: Does scum fake claiming JK make sense?

There was no JK, there was no result to consider. All Ass had to do was go through the steps of continuing his fake claim by stating a block...
Thinks <Ohh block my biggest read, and then vote them> that should put lots of distance between me and Math no matter who flips.>

and yes the post is only 3 lines long.

and thats because he did not JK math and thus didnt even think about what the outcome of the JK meant. If he had thought about what it meant, there would have been a perceived contradiction in his post.

He did go to the effort if finding a gif and

trash talking

the game.... That was important enough to spend effort on.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/ ... me-war.gif

What the fuck did I replace into...

Anyway, I see my predecessor already claimed. I Jailkept Mathblade last night because I figured he was scum.

Things that didnt happen

he could right here have said: But my scum read is so strong I want to vote him anyway. << This would have indicated he had even thought about the meaning of the outcome of his claimed to exist night action. That there was no such thought is to me <some> evidence he never thought about what it meant as the night action never happened.

More Things that didnt happen, but easily could have if the read or the Jk were real.

he could right here have taken the time and effort he had to trash talk the game and stated any of the reasons he supposedly had.

VOTE: Mathblade
Now I have to go to sleep. I'll answer questions in the morning.

Yes it does.
TLDR: As a towny with JK there are thoughts missing that i expect to be there in his vote on math.
whereas
As a scum fake claiming, it is quite plausible he would overlook and not notice that his (did not happen) overnight check did not agree with his vote.

That is not wayy to big slip to make.


As either basically naked voting in contradiction to the evidence in the same post that weakens the vote when you claim it is the guy you want lynched today, is soft pushing AKA (distancing yourself) from the result of the lynch you are voting. And is scum indicative its own right.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle maybe I'm just not reading this right but I'm really, really confused. Are you saying that Assemble's post was scummy or wasn't

scummy

I am unsure how you could be confused.

I am stating this post by assemble is scum indicative, I earlier stated the earlier play by Joey and Viomi was scum indicative.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/ ... me-war.gif

What the fuck did I replace into...

Anyway, I see my predecessor already claimed. I Jailkept Mathblade last night because I figured he was scum.

VOTE: Mathblade
Now I have to go to sleep. I'll answer questions in the morning.

Yes it does.
TLDR: As a towny with JK there are thoughts missing that i expect to be there in his vote on math. (

Is inconsistent with his post being made by towny who had just JK his suspect and was now voting him. (details on what explained earlier posts)

)
whereas
As a scum fake claiming, it is quite plausible he would overlook and not notice that his (did not happen) overnight check did not agree with his vote.
(

and is consistent with scum fake claiming and failing to think about what the non existent Jk of math meant, as he both already knows math alignment and the JK didnt happen

)

So yes operating using thought processes only scum would have is

scummy

.

I am not seeing what was unclear about that.

Further. as he has only made 4 posts lets consider them all.
Two 4855 4856 were just filler, producing quotes and evidence he apparently had at his finger tips and could easily find and post

if he wanted to

.

In the last post we can see the kind of thing Assemble could have said easily with his vote post,

if he had considered making his vote carry weight

, more important use of his limited time than trash talking town.

So while he could easily have said this (in his first post) to strengthen his vote on his biggest scum read.

[...] the scumread was based off the slot's general track record in this game, as well as comparing it to other games where I'd already seen Math flip.

instead he did this

He did go to the effort if finding a gif and trash talking the game.... That was important enough to spend effort on.

and trash talking town to lower expectations and moral does suit a scum agenda. Even if the assessment of town so far is accurate why the desire to highlight it not put weight in your vote with some substance?

That whole pattern of behavior in the post, is also not consistent with his claim of being a town player having a strong scum read that they want to get lynched and is thus also evidence he is scum and lying about his motivations.

There is no one silver bullet piece of evidence. With how little he is willing to risk by posting and playing in the game that is hardly surprising. Which again is scum indicative.

[AxleGreaser]

@Nero

Designed bus theory aside, a town ass keeping Math and not getting any viable resultz=//=he shouldn't have voted her. Like, I think thats one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read.

Please show me where you read that. Quote the post.

It is not for instance the argument that i made.
I made the argument that if they were town with a Jk result ,that they had just been thinking about, they would have said other actually scum indicative things in the post voting math. Instead Assembler soft shoed his vote to give it less weight. And was not actually actively trying to get his read lynched. distancing.

@Assembler

Designed bus theory aside, a town ass keeping Math and not getting any viable resultz=//=he shouldn't have voted her. Like, I think thats one of the dumbest arguments I've ever read. I mean, maybe there's others but off the top of my head something like a cop getting a not guilty is like the only reason to not vote your scum read the next day. Its situational but jailkeeper isn't one of them.

Thank you, Nero.
I honestly don't understand Axle's argument. Why did I not push harder on Math? I was in the middle of a fucking play and was

burned out

from reading that entire shitshow of a thread.

My argument is having done that and claiming to have reasons for your vote you didn't choose to put any reasons. It would have been as easy to do then as it was when you made your fourth post. 4999.

Having claimed to have made a JK night action whose result is some evidence that the person you are voting at the least did not send in the kill,
and if you were town and really sent in that action you would have just recently before writing thought about what the result meant,
you didnt choose to type out any of the evidence/reasons that was fresh in your mind from the read through that instead supported your vote.

Posting evidence contrary to your vote (jk when the kill happened anyway) and then not in anyway explaining or supporting your vote does not look like a towny actually trying to get a read lynched. It looks like scum distancing and undermining the strength of your own vote.

Instead in terms of supporting your own vote on your own scum read. You did Nothing nada zip.

Instead you did choose to spend time trash talking town.
Post the result of your read, which is some evidence against you read/vote.

and then basically naked vote your read.

Also if you had done that read through

before you submitted your JK

night action.... Then it is rather a lot later to be so

burned out

as to not put any reasons for your effectively naked vote at all.

BUT

That is not the entirety of the reasons for thinking your slot is scum.

There is also the hinky expedient way that the claim was made by Viomi and the, and the scummy play by both your predecessors.
and yes as scum you are never going to admit my read explains why you as scum did those things.
or that it also explains why those actions of yours and your predecessors don't make sense as town.

[AxleGreaser]

zzzzzzzzzzz.

[AxleGreaser]

@town

Today we are very likely at 7 man LYLO. To win from there we are looking for 3 scum lynches in row. Hero plays where you YOLO a vote onto the one person who is scummiest in your mind likely wont be enough to win it from here. Even if you turn out to be right.
If you are right and not even a single townie votes you instead of the scum, because you

ALSO

made such a compelling case...

Then yay we get through the day.

But

you also need to work towards getting enough out of the day to set up the next two lynches.

So: Please don't runaway and not play, pls don't just Yolo the day away, both are scum favoring and scum indicative: instead

play mafia

.

So what will

play mafia

mean?

Well you could instead of

vote player_1, YOLO!!!!

say

Hey player_1 you are dirty rotten good for nothing scum as soon as we stop mucking around I am going to insta vote you.
LOL LOL LOL.

But that is not really getting information.

Instead stuff as benign as: find people who have reads that are different to yours and find out why. Ie

play mafia

.
Maybe you or them will find out their read is wrong or at least each understand why the other made the read … or find out its fake and they are lying scum. Ie

play mafia

.

To get off this I will do few practical examples, but I am going to write post about/titled

Truth

and

Lies

and townies,

PLEASE wait and read that one before responding to any of the question posts below if they involve you.

PEdit:

@Transcend

you could always say why you think that? (no waiting for truth and lies post required..)

[AxleGreaser]

@Nero

if you get here before I make my next post

please

don't answer this post until you read the next one OK, .................. Please. ta tia.
It will take a little bit to write in needs quotes.

@Nero

Regarding your Lucky Read. It currently seems to be different to mine, I want to know why and how you got it when. In as many words and detail as you can manage.

Yesterday you had got as far as

I'm prob in favor of lynching Lucky today but I still Axe's play has been a mess and I'm not really town reading him.

but you were voting me not lucky at that time.

Back here you were very pro town Lucky. (and there are other points of time too)

What happens when Lucky flips town?

What changed your mind that drastically? What was there that was so very scum indicative in Luckies play after that?
Earlier I agreed with your stance on UCV/lucky. Most of my town read on the slot came from earlier plays, but nothing lately has significantly changed my views on alignment.

As I have been TRing the slot, perhaps I missed the stuff you saw. What was it?

@Lucky

I suggest after we are done you get to comment kk. For now I talk to nero about that Ok? 3 cornered convos fuck up and get harder to get reads out of.

Spoiler: for clarity : expected procedure

I and Nero discuss the above. When we are done, Lucky gets to comment on whether either person seems to have a questionable read basis. That might look like a gimme to Lucky, but I think it might be the hardest part; as not looking either like a scummy OMGUS, or working out when to question how genuine a TR is, is not easy for scum to fake.
Then of course third parties can chip in if they choose.
Why a procedure? To milk the day for info.

TLDR: please dont stmp in otehr people puddles. Take your turn. Prioritise who needs to talk and when its best to listen. Motherhood and apple is good too. kk.

@Nero

if you get here before I make my next post

please

don't answer this post until you read the next one OK, .................. Please. ta tia.

[AxleGreaser]

Truth

and

Lies

---

Ok so LAL is a thing and people who lie about roles and claims and stuff get lynched. But that is not what i am talking about.

I townread nauci because nauci told the

truth

. And i was somewhat confident i had worked that out. Hence I would not vote her.

Nauci telling

truth

Spoiler: a tortuous process.

Starting back here viewtopic.php?p=9674293#p9674293 I found something i didnt quite like in Nauci posting but I had to clarify some potentially ambiguous stuff first. (eliminate wiggle room)

By here I had managed to nail it down.
viewtopic.php?p=9674308#p9674308
and by here make it clear i was serious
viewtopic.php?p=9675780#p9675780

and here I explained why I wanted to know.
viewtopic.php?p=9676027#p9676027
Nauci's 815 & 592 which explained the cock up (change of mind state half through writing the post) looked like not the kind of thing scum make up.
It was also a viable explanation of how the post got written at all, when before that in my mind it didn't make sense if Nauci already had an idea about TIAM experience level before she started. Because i thought he should also know or believe i would. So i couldn't reliably before hand find a good purpose ( a question a townie would want to know the answer too.) for the post.

Note Nauci has I believe some natural advantages here. Naucis epeen did not get in the way. (no that is not IMO gender specific, just biased)

but one that thus ended in town read by me.

Gerry I believe not telling the truth: Seemingly

lying

even though they later flipped town

Spoiler: A convoluted process

Gerry started here

VOTE: whiskers
okay you sold me

When I asked which bits sold him he said nothing didn't answer and had already run away to the UCV/Lucky wagon. When I pressed even more he replied.

1. All of it sold me,

When the the truth is in the time he had to read it that cant really be true. It especially cant be true in the stronger sense of he verified my
characterization of Whiskers posting was accurate.

My guess now that his slot flipped town, is he didn't want to admit the truth is that he had, just like scum him would have, sheeped a big shiny case where someone else would eat the blame if it flipped town. And he could claim credit if it flipped scum. An easy game, easy life, kind of thing.

Instead he then doubled down on how certain his UCV read that was again not actually true or consistent with his actual play and voting later in D1.
He did that not because it was

truth

but because he wanted to hit back bysaying. "

all those show certainty, so that read by axle is bullshit

"

Now i cant be certain that is what happened. But please if i push you on a point do NOT do what I described above.

If its cock up, then as

town

tell me the

Truth

like Nauci did. Ok?

If you are

scum

go right on

lying

as you don't have town real story or thought process back there do you.....

At least some questions I plan on asking today may require telling the

truth

. Pls do. When I thought about the questions I was asking (and what possible town and scum explanations i could think of) some of the town ones may require truth telling, of the

nauci

variety. kk.

[AxleGreaser]

To clarify, I'm supposed to wait until you post before I respond to 5078?

Yep just did, As i hurried a bit because you were in the thread. I hope it doesnt need errata/EBWOP.
Right before Pressed submit i found I missed out a NOT somewhere. in there.

[AxleGreaser]

@IaI

yesterday you made 4986 raising some points
I replied in 4989, and the reply had a number of ? In it.

(Ahh I finally get your 100MB thing, it was

your

100MB of limited international that went quick.)
(IaI nearly said: “I see your other questions but

MY

100 MB of data goes really quick internationally.” I am used to it being my international situation that creates problems via TZ not data limits. So I didn't insert the implied disambiguating

MY

)

So now when you are I assume back in the US. I would like the other questions... in 4989 and extras in 4994 responded to.

After that is a bunch of stuff on Whiskers Id like to sort out. We've both scum read the slot, but your explanation of your read does not so far make me more convinced my read was right all along.

[AxleGreaser]

@Flairs

Yesterday you made this post

Oh ok

that

makes sense now @Axle

UNVOTE:

it

was more of a pressure thing, but

it's

been resolved so there's not much point in keeping

it

up

Some people didn't like that post, neither do I. I suspect however that you may be, town wondering WTF, or scum wondering WTF.
So ….
Wat do.

Your post had comparatively very few words. Please restate what you were thinking Yesterday when you wrote it. Try hard not to state what you think today. Explain where your head was at yesterday. Please do not be succinct.

[..clarity deliberately elided..]

Spoiler: Axle vagueness

yes this post is very purposefully vague. It is called open questioning as opposed to closed questioning.

One useful use of extra words would be precisely define what all the The “

That

” and “

its

” specifically were at the time referring to.

The other people probably should not poke here. What I think is needed first is for Flairs to add more words/clarity.

[AxleGreaser]

@Nero

Yesterday you had got as far as

I'm prob in favor of lynching Lucky today but I still Axe's play has been a mess and I'm not really town reading him.

but you were voting me not lucky at that time.

One bit that did not get cleared up and as there was no explicit question fair enough.

How come you were "prob in favor of lynching Lucky today" but not voting him?

[AxleGreaser]

oops thought i had posted this damn glad it was in the history buffer. Also glad i reread it to check it was all still there. This post gramatically belongs before the last?

My original town read on Lucky was a mostly holdover from UC.

Most of my conscious read on the slot, comes as hold over form back then.
I spent a lot of time i might find more towniness, more recently. Up until now that has not been good use of time.

Claiming scum is WIFOM and every once in awhile there are scum that claim scum. The reason that scum get away with this is because bad/dumb town do it. I had felt like UC's scum claims were the type of Lulzy claims that come from silly town that think they are doing something useful.

My read back there was little more specific hence stronger. Having read lot of UCV posts prior to the game, some now in completed games some maybe not yet.
I read UCVs play as an extension, like, but even happier to play than previously. More lolsy, having fun. That felt wrong if I assume he'd just got scum PM in his first large game. Also his reaction to CABD 149 151 felt town (well town UCV : genuine).

My real concern with Lucky started with his quick hammer of Math. Being on a scum lynch is a tremendous amount of town cred and scum desperately trying to get on and it also had the added benefit of cutting off discussion and ending any mass claim. If Lucky is scum then I think this points somewhat to scum being in the unclaimed trash.

Luckys quick hammer on Math was terrible and I looked back in my post log. UC was trying to paint me as an Alisae buddy so that could be a thing.

Lucky why didn't you claim yesterday?

I will probably not vote ass.

Didn't need to. I was in full control of the lynch with my hammer, why then add my role, it would only benefit scum to know at that point.

-1 nero

I think it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask why he didn't claim yesterday so I'm not the biggest fan of the slight pushback here.

I also feel like, if his reasoning for not claiming was that scum might shoot at him why he'd claim VT the next day. That seems very inconsistent.

I think... ditto on the push back? (need luckies explanation I think.)
Making yet another VT claim, does theoretically narrow the pool for possible Nks. In general i don't claim without a reason.
If this is his state of mind

Well frankly if this guy isn't scum I don't even know who else to start with. I've wanted this lynch for too long to give it a chance to dissolve like it did yesterday.

his choices were claim then hammer, or just hammer. I cant see why the latter is not strictly better if he then claims the next day. 4914 (Same effect for town scum is made nk with a bit less info known)

I got my hammer, if you want my neck, come and get it.

scum threatening to self-hammer?

Um that is reaching at least. More like bravado? and yes scum do bravado, so do some townies.

TLDR: You must hate that math hammer a lot for it to move your read that far. Me not so much. But perhaps if i look at it longer (sleep on it) it may as an idea grow on me.

[AxleGreaser]

that said, scum haven't quickhammered lucky. that could mean a bunch of things, here they are:

Lucky is scum and scumteam wants to save him
Lucky is town and scumteam isn't around to quicklynch him (ie, Flairs & IaI)
Lucky is town and scum are already voting him (Nero & Whiskers), hoping town will sheep.
-OR-
This isn't LyLo.

@Axel same question.

Um my first thought is ... yes.
Also while i had looked at the large completed games and concluded this would be LYLO, or likely enough we ought act as if it is.
but 100% that nope I suppose not? I have been surprised before.
I haven't been in situation like this one. Its potentially more complicated than i thought at the start of the day.

So my intention right now is to go on playing mafia. Not only do we have to get this lynch right but we really want to get tomorrows lynch right too.
There is time left for scum to squirm.

[AxleGreaser]

Regarding: The Nero v Lucky thing.

Something feels wrong about it. It precipitated very fast. From 5111(still civil) -- 5115 (never moving vote)

Nero your vote is I believe (as per 5114) a reaction to

Nero is upset because he didn't plan on math getting lynch. He wasn't solidly on that wagon and he didn't interact with math at all that day. He gave one post about how he is ok with math or whisker being lynched and then shifted attention to the proposed mass claim without going further into the person that was at L-1. He expected the mass claim to give him an out.

and that had a further explanation if you/Nero had asked for it.

In response to Nero... All game? Where are your votes then? You didn't show up on a single Alisae vote count. Then on day 3 when we were the closest to lynching math with 4 out of 7 needed, where were you for several days? On smocaine (now flipped town) and whiskers wagons that were going nowhere. Where was my vote? On scum the whole day. You have a funny way of showing you being after that slot the whole game.

Nero why did you go straight to voting Lucky?

That feels like a large step up from our discussion earlier today. Eg 5095

[AxleGreaser]

So you asked a question but you have I think overlooked the ones I asked earlier. (see 5086)
I am fine with that. I will shortly re-ask the bits I still find most relevant in light of other events.

VOTE: Assemblerotws

@Assemblerotws

So who did you JK last night?

You ask a question, yet you vote before getting an answer? Can you explain why?

Yes.

A shortest but incomplete version is

So as to indirectly, indicate to him that simply providng what his night action was would not be enough to make the vote go away.
I think there can be detected a degree of scorn, in the request? AKA I indicated indirectly, I didn't really value/believe the result.
Which I thought would suggest to a towny, the way to not get scum read is do other town things not just use the PR claim as a crutch.

A slightly longer version,

In games that I play, there exist questions that I ask mainly because i want to know something, that I don't know. I don't work out predefined sets of scum like and town like responses for those questions.

That was not one of them. I could have reasonably expected he would tell us his night actions, when he turned up like the did the day before.

However that specific juxtapostion, of the vote and then the question was i hoped if he was town as stimulus to realise that simply riding on his role as he seemed to think he could the day before where he basically naked voted his scum read with no stated reasons. Wasn't enough.
By leaving what (I might want a town him to do) that wasn't just (use his role as crutch),
leaving that as open ended as possible, maximized the chance he could

volunteer

some stuff that looked towny.

When that didn't work the next post ended with

If you are town please play mafia.

Indicating he had not been.

If I had say instead demanded a reads list, and he gave it that would not in my eyes be as towny as if he volunteered it when simply pressured by a vote.
and then by the less vague but still open ended play mafia request.
Reactive (do as you are told) plays doing as you are told counts less than volunteering it. What I got instead of town vibes was 4999 and 5046. I got no sense of him

looking for scum at all

.

On the other hand if he had been scum, my intention was, he might already feel the pressure from when the wagon persisted after the claim on the day Viomi claimed.
Also if he had been scum, as I at the time thought he might be. Then the knowledge he had faked the early night actions. Then had faked yet another offensive Jk because they wanted Rhah dead and that then in order for him to be able to at last claim a defensive JK they had shot around his block. If he had been scum with that knowledge he had done, that post structured as it was might have visibly rattled him. Instead i could not read the reply either way (town/scum) in that regard. It was too small succinct and tight/mechanisitic (just the facts maam).

If there was some better way to coax towny post out of him, someone else or you could always have done that.

I am not really seeing whats important about this to you. Do you need yet more information?

[AxleGreaser]

Restructuring of a question I asked earlier.

These are parts of two post that you made earlier.

then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

At axel, your other play style was very confrontational and not likely a successful way to remain

unlynched

as scum, so yeah I do see it as AI.

and yet in that game Flower Viewing Festival and a number of others, I did remain

unlnyched

.
So your claim that there is a Alignment indicative, scum reason for the style change is not aligned with objective truth.

What I didn't see was you do either before or after you made the read, was try to find out if there was town or other reason for the style change.

So a reasonably obvious (to me) town reason is:
and did that ***** play style help town lot? or just make lots of noise? (probably why it was seen as *****)
Did that playstyle let people just run away and say ***** (as they(TSO/Garmr) did in masquerade), whereas this game me questioning some people resulted (coincidently) in them replacing out, then flipping town. So frankly I am not sure everyone will agree I wasn't a **** here too. But I really did try.
And with number of people my approach let me see the towniness in their posting.

So my question to you is.
Was there a reasonably obvious town (and personal) reason for the change in how I play?
Why didn't you seem to consider or look for that?
Do you now see the claim you made about the style change, is not AI. As my old playstyle also tended not to get lynched.

FYI: I assert the style change was decision made quite some time ago before the game and is thus not a town tell.
(its was also related to the discussion in the geriatric players thread, That i had before the game.)
So while without that it might actually be town indicative (pro town)(less noise in thread is good for town) I assert it wasn't even made because i rolled town. I made the decision some time ago.

Please either explain how it is in fact scum indicative or ...

What is concerning me is:
What you appear to be doing is looking for a way i can be called scum. A theory in search of facts.

Now that could be you just tunneling the idea or it could be scum painting.

Help me see which it is please.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: Post with questions I asked you.

Questions now highlighted.

Restructuring of a question I asked earlier.

These are parts of two post that you made earlier.

then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

At axel, your other play style was very confrontational and not likely a successful way to remain

unlynched

as scum, so yeah I do see it as AI.

and yet in that game Flower Viewing Festival and a number of others, I did remain

unlnyched

.
So your claim that there is a Alignment indicative, scum reason for the style change is not aligned with objective truth.

What I didn't see was you do either before or after you made the read, was try to find out if there was town or other reason for the style change.

So a reasonably obvious (to me) town reason is:
and did that ***** play style help town lot? or just make lots of noise? (probably why it was seen as *****)
Did that playstyle let people just run away and say ***** (as they(TSO/Garmr) did in masquerade), whereas this game me questioning some people resulted (coincidently) in them replacing out, then flipping town. So frankly I am not sure everyone will agree I wasn't a **** here too. But I really did try.
And with number of people my approach let me see the towniness in their posting.

So my question to you is.

Was there a reasonably obvious town (and personal) reason for the change in how I play?

Why didn't you seem to consider or look for that?

Do you now see the claim you made about the style change, is not AI. As my old playstyle also tended not to get lynched.

FYI: I assert the style change was decision made quite some time ago before the game and is thus not a town tell.
(its was also related to the discussion in the geriatric players thread, That i had before the game.)
So while without that it might actually be town indicative (pro town)(less noise in thread is good for town) I assert it wasn't even made because i rolled town. I made the decision some time ago.

Please either explain how it is in fact scum indicative or ...

What is concerning me is:
What you appear to be doing is looking for a way i can be called scum. A theory in search of facts.

Now that could be you just tunneling the idea or it could be scum painting.

Help me see which it is please.

You replied.

Axle i hated playing with you last game. You frustrated me as town, power role town that got me undue attention and an early claim/exit as I recall. But there is value in that play style. I’ve seen twoface act the same way and when a player like that

tunnels

on scum it is terrible for the scum team. So while I hated it last game I still see value in it.

So I was wary from the beginning. Factor in this change in play style I was wary from the beginning

That did not answer any of these 3 important questions.
So my question to you is.

Was there a reasonably obvious town (and personal) reason for the change in how I play?

Why didn't you seem to consider or look for that?

Do you now see the claim you made about the style change, is not AI. As my old playstyle also tended not to get lynched.

You originally described my playstyle euphamistacally as.

then the ***** I played with in the first flower game.

and at that point I agreed the style has changed and did so in order to be less *****

but now you have described the style as a player that

tunnels

. I would not describe it like that. I describe it as focussed. I still am.
Your claim is false my style has not changed in that regard.

Indeed shortly after wards you provided evidence that I had been focssed/tunneled in this game. Were you trying to prove your own meta read wrong?

Axle your vote history looks like this

Nero (short lived rvs type vote)
Quick
Whiskers
Gerry
Smocaine
Assemble

Interesting so many living players have voted whiskers this game (me, lucky, Nero, axle), once again I don’t think I want to push whiskers today.

So yes I did indeed vote only limited number of people in this game. Which would suggest I focussed on my reads and pursuing them just like you claimed I wasnt?

Can you explain why the conclusion in 5236 has so little to do with the information in the post?

Can you explain why showing me voting list of relatively few people didn't make you wonder whether or not your claims about me being as focussed /Tunneled as I had been previously.

The actual changes since flower festival, are.

I didnt tunnel you?

I also start my questioning I think slower than i used to in order to establish dialogue first. That makes it more expensive for scum to run away.
I also post fewer posts than I used to. I think more critically about which ones really matter. See geriatric players club thread for whys on that one.

Summary.

When challenged whether you claim was AI you said it was when shown it wasnt. You simply ignore that and move on calling it wary.
You provide no explanation why you made no effort at all to find out if there were reasons other than being scum for the style change.

You say

So I was wary from the beginning.

but I don't remember and when I went back and looked I dint find any effort by you early game to try and interact with me and sort me out by finding out whether the style change or anything else was alignment indicative.

Where was the curiosity that wariness should have generated acted on in the thread?

What you are doing would be straight up scummy BUT

Axle i hated playing with you last game. You frustrated me as town, power role town that got me undue attention and an early claim/exit as I recall. (note I havent checked what happened yet busy, and it probably did.)

However that smells like bad blood, and it could as towny explain bias.

So again I ask

Now that could be you just tunneling the idea or it could be scum painting.

Help me see which it is please.

postscript

Why no responses on these two items yet?

(So yes i will be getting to lot of your questions, you asked quite few many of which in your VCA I presume were meant to be rhetorical)
However when i examined at least some of them I found the seemingly obvious to you conclusions to your (rhetorical?) questions didn't actually follow from the facts.
The problem was not that there was a contradiction, but mainly that you over looked all the alternatives, you just drew the conclusion you seemingly set out to support as if they were the only possibilities. When others exist.

As for claiming my role I saw no need to reclaim and you gave none. So as i had said I was VT, I didn't bother restating it. I am still a VT.
Apart from anything did you actually think about that question? It seemed pointless to me.
If a power role had chosen for some reason to lie the other day, then you asking for a reclaim without providing any reason or explaining the town utility of it, would not I think likely be a reason for them to change their mind now would it?
Do you have an explanation why town power role that decided to lie the other day should suddenly now not?

I certainly agree that any power role claiming now is going to have some very serious explaining to do. They are going to need a very good pro town reason for the previous lie.

As for reads lists you are currently throwing a rather large spanner in my works. But yes I will be getting there. I imagine my lines of inquiry and a desire not to rush to judgement were already quite clear to you. It was important to me today to get more information not just compare lists.

Before you started fitting facts to suit your theory you for instance didn't look scummy to me.

But that where it gets hard many of the alive people didn't. In my case so many of my scumreads died recently and then flipped town, my reads are all in mess.
I had hoped Gerry/Smocaine and or Joey/Viomi/Ass would throw light on Whiskers. And then if there was another scum, it would likely be much easier to see by then.
So I really expect I need to reconsider scum in places I thought I had eliminated.

If you are town it really would be handy if you helped me eliminate you faster.
So far you are not helping me see the fitting facts to theory that you have been demonstrated to be doing, is just town you.
Evidence of when you were ever curious and tried to find out you were wrong about me would be nice. Fien you were wary from the start. What did you do to find out if the wariness was justified or in anyway at all scum indicative?

But I have not found any. Indeed you straight up ignoring the pink questions above seems like an admission there isnt any.

And yes I wanted to discuss whiskers with you earlier today. But significant parts of what you have said since both out date that and are problematic for me in the seeming disconnect between the evidence you provide and the conclusion you draw. More fitting evidence to preexisitng theories.

[AxleGreaser]

@thread Sorry about the last post being so big it got away from me.

Spoiler: I just find this so frustrating

This is an explanation that might explain why town!IaI is fitting facts to theory

Axle i hated playing with you last game. You frustrated me as town, power role town that got me undue attention and an early claim/exit as I recall. (note I havent checked what happened yet busy, and it probably did.)

but i am finding it so hard to get responsive answers to my issues with his read and how he got it.

@IaI

Questions? in color

I will try somewhere else. hopefully not at all controversial to you.

Note we both agree Lucky looks townish. It is a consistent position you have held for while. I didn't find your earlier reasons for that position and mine are in the thread.
So I am not disagreeing with the resulting read.

As before.
My question is more about whether you are fitting facts to what you believe or working stuff out from the thread.
So Iam not even challenging your reads in anyway. But i want you to examine the process you used and tell me if it has shortcomings.

Earlier you made this VCA post about some VCA
I have also looked at Luckies ISO and pulled out two sequential posts. And added those they are now all in time order.

Spoiler: the posts

Well I came to anchor post and catch up and I see a mod post about gender. Wtf?

votecount 3.12

Nauci (3) - TwoInAMillion, Flairs, Whiskers
Smocaine (3) - AxleGreaser, Nero Cain, MathBlade
MathBlade (3) - Lucky2u, Transcend, Smocaine

Whiskers (2) - I Am Innocent, Rhah
Transcend (1) - Viomi
Flairs (1) - Nauci

Not voting (0) -

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 9, 21:10 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2017-11-09 21:10:00).

Viomi is V/LA indefinitely.

votecount 3.14

Viomi (5) - Nero Cain, Transcend, Rhah, Whiskers, MathBlade

MathBlade (2) - Lucky2u, Smocaine
Nauci (2) - TwoInAMillion, Flairs
Smocaine (1) - AxleGreaser
Whiskers (1) - I Am Innocent
Flairs (1) - Nauci

Not voting (1) - Viomi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 9, 21:10 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2017-11-09 21:10:00).

Viomi is V/LA indefinitely.

votecount 3.15

Viomi (4) - Nero Cain, Rhah, Whiskers, MathBlade
MathBlade (4) - Lucky2u, Smocaine, Viomi, Transcend

Nauci (2) - TwoInAMillion, Flairs
Smocaine (1) - AxleGreaser
Whiskers (1) - I Am Innocent
Flairs (1) - Nauci

Not voting (0) -

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 9, 21:10 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2017-11-09 21:10:00).

Viomi is V/LA indefinitely.

Another 150 post interesting development

I will not comment on the sexist bullshit... I will not comment on all the sexist bullshit... I will NOT comment on all the sexist bullshit...

....

Following those Vote counts one of the things you said was.

Why does scum Lucky stay on mathblade until it can become a wagon again (4400).

I presume that is meant to be rhetorical question as it was not asked of anybody.
So that would mean that is you suggesting your VCA shows that to be true or supported by the evidence.

But there are indeed a wide range of reasons in hypothetical world why a hypothetical scum!lucky would still be there.

Here are some.

• 1 Lucky made zero posts during the time window bracketed by those vote counts. So it is quite plausible Lucky was not even online reading this game when you think they should as scum have done something.
  
  2 Hell VCA at 4338 was at 1:07am the next one when it had reformed at 4378 was at 1:59am The only vote to get off Math happened at 1:01am (all in my TZ) your times (but the gaps should not) will vary) basically that happened so fast, that you thinking Lucky should be getting off for a scum related reason is very implausible.
  
  3 Even if lucky had been around, Given the eww nature in Luckies mind even if they looked at the thread decided eww they might have just gone away again anyway.
  
  4 If the wagon appeared to have gone away, why on earth get off? It would seem to me that staying on scum buddy while other people lynched town might well be a good plan.
  
  5 yes while every vote that gets off the scum buddy, does perhaps lower the likely hood of people coming back; Townies with reads were not going to be greatly persuaded either to vote their read or not based on Luckies presence or absence. I know momentum is thing but that doesn't look to me like case of it.
  
  5b In fact: The two votes that came back were OMGUS from Viomi and Transcend coming back to where they had been. Jumping off and going elsewhere in that time window would have looked quite bad. And not achieved any material gain at all.
  Are you sure you think getting off is the thing most scum would do most of the time?
  
  
  6 Vote hoping off your scum partner like that could later be seen as scum indicative. Especially if there was no good reason for the switch.

Basically there are huge number of factors involved in why both townies and scum move votes around.

Did any of those other possibilities occur to you?

Or did you simply find something you could say supported your view (town lucky read) and then not actually examine all the other evidence.

Now that does not suggest that Lucky is scum.
But your point about lucky is in fact quite NAI.

but my problem is you did not seem to investigate it for veracity or alternative explanations.

Do you have problem with my analysis that you point is actually NAI.

Do you have an explanation why when working the game out you didnt notice or even seem to look for such alternatives?

[AxleGreaser]

I’m still leaning

You still are not answering or addressing 5267 in anyway at all.

You answering those at the very least is critical to working out your VCA is worth anything at all.

My impression is you slapped it together without actually thinking much about it. Whether you did that as town or as scum who already knew who they wanted to lynch is the question i am trying to work out. You not actually directly answering my questions is not helping.

I know responding to 5267 does not effect your reads, (I did that on purpose to make it easier for you to admit how wrong headed it is)

but it will allow me and other people

to decide whether or not the rather large errors and glaring omissions in how you went about your VCA is you

scum painting your reads, (making your evidence fit your read, not working a read out like a towny would)

or

This is an explanation that might explain why town!IaI is fitting facts to theory

Axle i hated playing with you last game. You frustrated me as town, power role town that got me undue attention and an early claim/exit as I recall. (note I havent checked what happened yet busy, and it probably did.)

but i am finding it so hard to get responsive answers to my issues with his read and how he got it.

so you answering those questions is critical to working out if your actual reads and all that VCA you did is worth something or is actually quite scum indicative of you.

That you are continuing not to directly respond to my questions but cling to your scum read of me like it is a life raft is very troubling.

[AxleGreaser]

@Thread

Important information about IaI VCA that he made earlier today.

As per my discussion above, and the detailed very clear example in 5267 that discussion is not progressing well or effectively.
I am not happy with the responses and or the lack of them.

but the problem is much larger than that. IaI did rather lot of VCA, it looks like it was claiming to be working the game out.
It clearly was not.

If the game could be worked out by just looking at VCA as he did then there would be no need for all the other words in the game. He did not seem to look at any of them when drawing his conclusions.

The rest of the VCA is also fatally flawed and very unreliable. Even using just or only the VCA points of the game that he chose means you would suffer from a statistical phenomena known as selection bias.

I cant emphasise enough how unreliable that IaI VCA is. Despite however superficially "

good

" it looks to you. Poke into the conclusions and see for yourself if more evidence allows other possibilities that he failed to consider at all. I did I found quite a number for many of the points.

I chose to talk to him about the lucky example, because i wanted to gauge how desperate he is to hang onto the appearance that he had done the VCA well when it is patently clear from that example he had not.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle what I think you are missing is the fact just because you didn’t get lynched as town in the last flower game despite that play style doesn’t mean as scum, you could properly properly reflect that play style and not get lynched.

That’s the hard part about this game as mafia...faking play and having it come off as townie.

So saying it was a personal choice to change your play as town is not believable to me, aka this play style change is AI, unless you show me a scum game where you properly mirrored your town play from the flower festival.

Make sense?

No not much at all.
It does sound like you trying to defend your position as plausibly town...

What it does not in pretty much anyway do is defend your claim as true and thus one you believe and want acted on.

Things that are missing that ought be there.

Spoiler: a list

originally when you claimed my style had changed between Flower Festiville (several years and games ago BTW...)(so not real surprising) you described it confrontationally as "*****". I agreed my style has changed. Well I hope it has as i tried to change it as per the geriatric mafia players thread and as per my earlier reasoning.
I did explain what specific changes I had intentionally made between this game and my last as i didnt in anyway believe you could be claiming I must play like I did several games ago or be scum.
You did not dispute that those were the style difference you were talking about or claim there were others.
You still have not stated how this game is specifically different in style.
You have used the word

tunneling

to describe my previous play ( I prefer to describe my play as beign focussed on and pursing my reads.) I ahve point ed to the evidence that you put in the thread that I am still doing that this game.

basically your claim is now 100% evidence free.

The only thing left is you claiming it is plausible you still hold that read and it is not you scum painting me like Trojan.

Sorry about this list I like to be clearer about it but RL time is pressuring me today.
TLDR: there are absolutely zero details about what the change is that you claim is scum indicative. Even the one descriptive word "tunneling" that you did yuse for the other game and hence imply I am not here is contrary to the actual evidence.
So no your claim makes no sense as you have not even defined style chaage that you claim exists then shown that it does. I cant see how as towny making a case you missed that step.

Your utterly unrealistic demand for evidence is rejected out of hand. (as absurd.)
My playstyle has been growing and evolving over time. It also depends on the situation i find myself in, in terms of other players experience and the setup.
According your metric/reasoning every game I have ever played with style that tended not to get lynched, is scum indicative .And that bollocks as in many games I played with small style differences like i described before I was town.

[AxleGreaser]

More one or two sentence questions.

Axel I’m not going to read those walls.

So that pretty much puts an end to you discussing this with you pretending to be a good faith actor/participant.
I will point out that what is being discussed in those posts is the veracity of rather large number of words and post that you made. But now for some reason you are not prepared to do any more analysis or justify your analysis at all.

Wanna tell me protown reason for that reluctance expressed above?

It means for instance you are unwilling to examine any alignment indicative evidence at all. Unless it is one line glib, rhetorical Q's, or leading Question style, BS such as yo put in your VCA.

One or two sentence questions please.

Umm TBMK I already, lierally did that. The pink highlighted questions you skipped were that short. They ask you about your thought processes. You are refusing to describe them. One really obvious reason you would do that is if they don't exist, so you can't.

Please also note IIRC, all the recent questions so far have been one or two sentence

questions

. They were even colour coded so as to make them really easy to find, just in case you(or someone else) wanted to skim the all as the BS of your VCA was already obvious to the reader.

So you could always try just reading the pink one sentence questions and actually answering them. Is there any reas on that as town if you want one sentence questions and to not read the walls you dont just do that?

I feel obliged to warn you doing that without the surrounding context would be excpetionally bad play as either alignment. However as scum you might see it (such blatant stonewalling) as your only plausible way out as you have no real answer to the posts at all. Your hope as scum would be that you get read as titled town.

TLDR:

but mainly this:

So that pretty much puts an end to you discussing this with you pretending to be a good faith actor/participant.

@thread yeah I am not now really expecting a responsive answer to these either.

[AxleGreaser]

This game is getting under my skin finally. Someone be town so I can sheep the rest of this day away.

I think you may be fresh out of luck, Lucky. (sry)

When I look at the rest of the thread and then for each player factor in how strong my TR/lean is and how skillful and well reasoned I think their reads are. I don't see anyone Id could in good faith sheep.

Also, it would be nice if you tried to keep treading water and actively work the game out... as that is a bit AI.

[AxleGreaser]

@Nero.

Hi?

For someone who is voting Lucky on what could possibly be lylo, you are very willing and quick to switch to a hypothetical scenario in which he's town.

Nero the quoted bit above looks a little like a question that has a typo, and is missing the question mark.

For someone who is voting Lucky on what could possibly be lylo, you are very willing and quick to switch to a hypothetical scenario in which he's town.

?

in case you miss that please treat it as question/statement and one you ought answer/respond to. ta.

[AxleGreaser]

Pick me

nope
and you can try to look like you are figuring the game out too.

[AxleGreaser]

Let's not forget the Jk jailed Nero.

Yes that is a thing not forget. I am curious on what you thought it meant?

Topics might include:

• How strong that meant Viomis read on that Nero was?
  What the result of that action means?
  Whatever else you thought was an important reason for not forgetting that particular thing.

Spoiler: Blah blah in case you need a reason to answer (preferrably at length)

Also: if this interaction of mine and yours feels weird. Just humor me for a bit kk. (So you saying as many words on what you think as possible would be nice. I promise to read them all.)
What i am doing nothing especially deep and shouldn't get as wordy from my end, as some interactions that I do. And it only has a possibility of even being AI. Best shot I have.
and as breadcrumb of the contents of the reason for this line of inquiry, that I will be prepared to state later(shortly in game day time). I am having some difficulty working out how to apply the set of scum hunting techniques I have to get a better read on your slot.

Also feel free to spoiler your response as i suspect many people wont care about or use my line of inquiry. Its a me thing.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP

Let's not forget the Jk jailed Nero.

Yes that is a thing

to

not forget. I am curious

however about

what you thought it meant?

Topics might include:

• How strong that meant Viomis read on that Nero was?
  What the result of that action means?
  Whatever else you thought was an important reason for not forgetting that particular thing.

Spoiler: Blah blah in case you need a reason to answer (preferrably at length)

Also: if this interaction of mine and yours feels weird. Just humor me for a bit kk. (So you saying as many words on what you think as possible would be nice. I promise to read them all.)
What i am doing nothing especially deep and shouldn't get as wordy from my end, as some interactions that I do. And it only has a possibility of even being AI. Best shot I have.
and as breadcrumb of the contents of the reason for this line of inquiry, that I will be prepared to state later(shortly in game day time). I am having some difficulty working out how to apply the set of scum hunting techniques I have to get a better read on your slot.

Also feel free to spoiler your response as i suspect many people wont care about or use my line of inquiry. Its a me thing.

[AxleGreaser]

@Sauce

back here I made two posts 5350 5353 they were related. What was happening is below.

@thread there is words inside the spoiler so at least some of you wont want to read them.

Spoiler:

I was a little tweaked by the possibility of a soft push. A thing that was almost a question but not. 5312 Felt like a thing you ought want to find out about not just make statement about. I am a bit sad/unhappy Nero didnt respond as i asked him to. 5350 My plan was to see what his answer was and what if anything you then did with that. Mice and men.

And a night action to be remembered but no conclusion drawn. 5344 Looked a bit throw away.

Didn't know what i would get back but thought it worth a shot.

What I did get: plausible response. 5382 AKA I checked and you seemed to know what town thought processes were behind your statement.
Your statement to Nero 5312, could have been little trying to convince nero hes scum. (a thing scum do) It also felt like a thing you ought want to find out about not just say. So it looked like it should have been question. I was curious what would happen if you got an answer. I was wondered what the answer was.

So: It might have got more interesting if nero had also responded, but meh. Times ticking no time to try and make it play out.

I can fill out details on, on why I approached you this way if you like. people have been bitching about my play style in part adapting to circumstance. Its only fair you get turn at that too. Also transparency and willingness to cooperate with other peoples attempts to get a read on you are a thing. And best of all, when people try and get read on me and i cooperate I get to get read on how they go about it. The trick is to play for and with your team even when your are uncertain who they are.

So yeah, if you wanna dance on some topic, i wont runaway.

My

read

on this

Sauce

slot. Quick version.

Beeboy. I had not been getting scum vibes whiel he was inthe slot nor found a good place to poke to potentially enhance the towniness of it either. Some inetraction about a questioning put own where i was. Flairs. On at least one occasion I liked observations flairs had made that indciated they were working the game out.

Sauce: Everything (the tiny bit there was due to recent arrival) looked fine, (that was on like RVS level of content). My rcent prod above is more like the kind of thing I do fresh out of RVS.
I was having trouble understanding this point of view.

Sauce is trolling at this point. That is caught scum just hoping to get to a no lunch.

Then i went back and examined it, and i think I found a point of view Lucky is looking from

I really want to town read this slot (as well as luckies), but that I am worried its because i want life to be easier.

I will need to reread the last 6 pages several times to work out what i think it all means.

[AxleGreaser]

Sauce is trolling at this point. That is caught scum just hoping to get to a no lunch.

Can you show me your case for scum Sauce please. or if not case how you have gotten this convinced.

because like i just said, my gun to the head decide right now read is you are both town.

[AxleGreaser]

Pedit and axle is here too

BTW piss off with any sense of demand you have on me to be here and post when you say.
if you are unwilling to answer highlighted questions one or two sentences long, then clearly no matter what PM you got you chose not to play on my team for town.

[AxleGreaser]

That makes sense, lets end it
VOTE: sauce

[AxleGreaser]

Whiskers Flip looks wrong to me.

[AxleGreaser]

I don't think I'll be capable to play mafia game again after this trainwreck.

I know the feeling wait until you see scum PT.

[AxleGreaser]

I was literally struggling just to not replace out of the game the whole D2

I felt your pain.

[AxleGreaser]

Whiskers Flip looks wrong to me.

my bad its fine.

[AxleGreaser]

oh wait the game is over

funniest post of the game.

[AxleGreaser]

Hey Masons! On a scale of 1-10, how disappointed are you guys that I flipped green?

Why did I get so tunneled you were a mason.....

It was in my mind simply not a possible thing on the planet that the masons scum read was genuine.
I assumed they were dragging you around to look for scum wanting an easy lynch.
That led to me setting the P Value for you being their mason buddy at P=1.5.
I still keep rereading the flips.

[AxleGreaser]

Of the scum, Axe played the best. I was light scum reading him early for active lurking but he really owned me late game.

(Wait for it.... wait until you also see how badddddd I played. I had a RL excuse though.)

Please be aware if I roll town next game.. and CABD and HST (or their metric equivalent) are in both the game. (even if we don't have a D1 day vig or claimed masons filling up the thread
and if you don't allow room for the outed town PRs to have their moment in the sun...

and once he stops having fun messing with all the delicious attentions

(yeah that is a normal >>human<< thing that happens) (then they (the moment in the sun town PRs) without that due deference, they get grumpy town implodes and you/town loses)(team work is good, even when it means you step back)
So my advice to all townies when that happens stand back and accept that some people may slightly scum read your quietness.

but anyway if Just CABD and HST are in the game, and scum cant likely kill both of them. I am likely to step back again somewhat as town.

It will look quite bit like what you saw. It was a conscious decision to mimic what actual town me would do. if instead you have some subtle thing, then keep schtum(my advice),
However at that strategic level I know that's whats town me would have done because at strategy level i decided that before I got my PM while I was wondering about the game. And what i would do in in it while doing back ground on the people I would play with, and also to get warmed up as its been a while between games.

I even have a name for that play decision as town. Its called a slow dance. I expect I will slow dance with Rhah too BTW. Although perhaps i had better read the mason PT as i apparently misread him all game.

Note its different when there is only two. Three has different game theory ramifications.

Skip: objection!!!! but you were scum....
Axle: yep and scum who knew what town him would do at that level of choosing how to play during this game if I had been town.

Axle: good boy skip.

[AxleGreaser]

[AxleGreaser]

[AxleGreaser]

I am, ime, fairly unique.

[AxleGreaser]

This was Axle straight up cross posting a post that was supposed to go in the scum PT, and since he was talking to Whiskers, it outed both of them, not just Axle. In fact, after he made this post and realized what he did, he PM'ed me in a panic asking if I should redact the post and modkill him instead (which of course I couldn't do, if you scum slip you just gotta play it as it lies) and spent several RL days freaking out in the scum PT afterward.

QFT.

To explain a bit what happened I had RL issues, and playing mafia at the same time meant i was extraordinarily low on sleep. And i simply was literally bleary eyed. Screen was blurry levels of tired. Grabbed some quotes, and never did the step of cutn paste those into anotehr post in the scum PT and never checked if the screen was purple.

Also once I looked and thought about it i realised there was no way to fix it. i was in instant reaction mode. I thought I had basically explicitly scum claimed. The change in direction/emphasis of reads was always the idea.... but it was meant to be a little more elegantly done. I really was having trouble writing better scum case on Whiskers that was not just bollocks.

Also

I haves a suggestions:
While the user story (A software engineering term) of mods pming people about questionable posts is a thing.
So is the user story of one user sending Pm to another user about a post.

In order to get quote from closed game, the best first step is to move towards PMing that player. (press the PM button)
at that point you are only one button click away from rule violation.

Id love it is the PM button by default PMed me the person that pressed it. (first do no harm)
Then if i want to I can choose a different recipient.
or two buttons (on an already crowded interface?)

It will be a bit tricky to do, but i think I have working technical solution where i will write a local http proxy server before I play mafia again
I am never ever making that mistake again. I nearly died inside.

Other features of my future proxy server will be

Spoiler:

Davstos Avatar will be replaced with one of my local choosing. (hi davsto love you, I just always want to lynch you even in the speakeasy...) I cant help it. (AKA I will implement a local Avatar override cache.)
Thread lock: I will have GUI with check boxes so I can personally lock my access to any thread I choose. So if Iam scum PT mode I turn off (remove) the main game submit button.
And lastly but its going to be bot awkward given the URL interface I have noticed, when I press PM, the proxyserver willthen remove the target (click on the x) prettysure that will be peasy ish.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm still debating if I should release the PT but I wasn't in a good frame of mind.

Ask for some editing to be done Mathblade. I wanna read the pt.

Its not just a little PT.

I for instance made >250 posts in it.....

That might be some editing request.

A lot of posts are not only about the game but us shooting the breeze and talking person to person. About stuff and other stuff.
There is whatever our response and discussion was around the contentious events.

and in terms of being sensitive to other peoples issues I suggest having look at this and seeing easily merely careless actions hurt,
and the effects words have and the different ways people interpret words matters, and i would highly recommend people practice listening

like a girl

(eg the one in the video) and try to be sensitive to how all people see the world around them. Not just put them in boxes and forget them, that is severe disrespect no matter the label on the box.

There can be if math wants stuff edited, problems with it being many peoples posts and does he have the right to ask the mod to change them?
And the possibility of the question if math needs some of my posts removed does that leave me looking say not as empathetic as an individual as I would like to be. So unilateral decisions may not be as simple as it looks.

I don't even feel i have the right to ask (privately) what bits concern him as that is personal information i don't need to know and choose not to ask.

So did it get personal ... yes.
and so sorry I don't care what you want. I care about my scum buddies first.

[AxleGreaser]

ehhh never mind, I guess we got into some stuff.

I'm not really into giving a shit what leaks onto the internet and I don't really care what people read or think about me. But go ahead and edit out whatever parts of my posts you need to to keep your own anonymity.



But leave my fucking alisae rage in there.

Love you man somehow I knew that is where your head would be at.

[AxleGreaser]

I don't think I'll be capable to play mafia game again after this trainwreck.

Its going to take me a while, I might even go into therapy. Well not, but I have a question about me that I want answered by an expert.

but

I also want to apologize for no saying hi in my opening post. But before the game i had no idea why you had changed from GIF to HST.
And while it was nothing like secret as you used your GIF modding experience to sign up as a HST mod.
I didnt wanna say Hi GIF when I had actually found the when how and whys in the scum PT.

Hi HST.

BTW I really liked your first avatar, and the name change, It is very Terry Pratchett.
this one spooks me out a bit.

[AxleGreaser]

so why wasnt the guilty outed again

Id be guessing it pretty similar to the reason we never got ourselves organised and triple hammered.

When you play mafia, shit happens, and people die.
often the wrong ones in hindsight.

I could ask why you didn't answer my questions before you replaced out if you like?
If Id lost that excuse to scum read you id have got boxed more and more into just lynching whiskers the obv counter wagon.

[AxleGreaser]

Kinda sucks that my best read of the game AKA whiskers never got lynched. But I have to hand it to them with the word count.

In the dead thread, I said some stuff. It may be useful or not. see 423 in dead thread. It may explain why even if you do everythign esle right ometimes some people will ignore some of your posts.
They either know or think they know things you dont.

[AxleGreaser]

If scum isn't going to release the PT, can you quote your paranoia about me being a Mason axle? Out of curiosity.

It was more based on UCV, I felt I had good read on UCV being overly excited to play. It felt like it needed a reason.
The Rhah 1618 vote did not really look srs to me. 2051 doesnt help. 2036 How can UCV happen if no one ever says why they're voting them? Only people who are going to sheep that are town without better idea in the head or scum.
I thought/guessed Rhah was trying to find the scum with it.

After that... a no brakes tunnel followed.

Your posting also didn't seem to justify the Rhah responses. Apparently he was in his own no brakes tunnel.

[AxleGreaser]

Hi, (yes that means exactly what it always does)(pls dont move)

Better to just quote form that thread into a new PT of all posts that ARE game relevant, then release that?

staring at that thought.

They get get mixed up a bit too. Hence the editing, not just pick the game relevant ones, problem.
and then the problem of what half told stories look like.

and to be frank, not everybody all the time looks like a good faith actor in interpersonal processes.
I am getting tired of things being cancerous. Especially when such behavior is in fact contagious breeds more of itself and spreads like cancer of bile. And if we cut everything out that would not potentially just feed and encourage more of that there would be not all that much left worth reading.
I would for instance cut my entire actual >>personal<< >>human<< reaction to scum slipping. Because why stand there and let people throw shit at the person you are. When they don't even at the time have scum PM, but appear not to have noticed.

and within a game where wincon is on the line that expected up to a limit. Some people have different limits to me.

---

and while I am in pontificating mood.

A General health warning about plying mafia.

Just as you are what you eat is truism with some merit.
You are who you practice being.
Choose who you want to practice being.

Choose wisely, choose well

.
Its is your actual quality of life for the rest of your life that you are betting. Knowingly or not.

Spoiler: longer and soemwhat pointier.

Mafia is an interpersonal process game, if you practice playing in a particular style, do not be surprised if that starts turning up in your actual real life interactions. A question I most certainly am not asking the reader of this post but i am suggesting they should ask themselves is when I play mafia am I practicing being the person I want to be.
For real life example of how practice or even exposure to bad interpersonal processes get in. Consider Mel Gibson and why and where he says his outburst came from when he was drunk. I have it on good authority that when Mel is sober up ladder cleaning out the gutters of a property mel owned and was renting out, he was a lovely guy. (Aka happened to be in town the agent told him the gutters needing cleaning so Mel did it... With a cheerful smile on his face.) (but childhood practice in being in social situation with bigot stuck like shit, and came out with alchohol (reduced inhibitions))

Again I ask people to ask themselves
A question I most certainly am not asking the reader of this post but i am suggesting they should ask themselves is when I play mafia "

Am I practicing being the person that I want to be.

"
As a hint: I will indicate that how I play mafia and get reads is I try really really hard to put myself in the mindset of other people and think like they would, with the knowledge, skills, emotions that they do. Sometimes I find pretending to be the people I have played mafia with or read the games of to be really really unpleasant as I don't even like imagining I think like they do.
The most notable exception ever: In this game the hardest thing I ever did in my mafia life was purposefully put myself in Viomis shoes. And remember/relive how I felt when a related thing happened in my own life. That was just bad and unrelated to the person as it was entirely the situation burning me up.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP oops. missed t and bits

Hi, (yes that means exactly what it always does)(pls dont move)(this misses you entirely)

Better to just quote form that thread into a new PT of all posts that ARE game relevant, then release that?

star

t

ing at that thought.

They get get mixed up a bit too. Hence the editing, not just pick the game relevant ones, problem.
and then the problem of what half told stories look like.

and to be frank, not everybody all the time looks like a good faith actor in interpersonal processes.
I am getting tired of things being cancerous. Especially when such behavior is in fact contagious breeds more of itself and spreads like cancer of bile. And if we cut everything out that would not potentially just feed and encourage more of that there would be not all that much left worth reading.
I would for instance cut my entire actual >>personal<< >>human<< reaction to scum slipping. Because why stand there and let people throw shit at the person you are. When they don't even at the time have scum PM, but appear not to have noticed.

and within a game where wincon is on the line that expected up to a limit. Some people have different limits to me.

---

and while I am in pontificating mood.

A General health warning about plying mafia.

Just as you are what you eat is truism with some merit.
You are who you practice being.
Choose who you want to practice being.

Choose wisely, choose well

.
Its is your actual quality of life for the rest of your life that you are betting. Knowingly or not.

Spoiler: longer and soemwhat pointier.

Mafia is an interpersonal process game, if you practice playing in a particular style, do not be surprised if that starts turning up in your actual real life interactions. A question I most certainly am not asking the reader of this post but i am suggesting they should ask themselves is when I play mafia am I practicing being the person I want to be.
For real life example of how practice or even exposure to bad interpersonal processes get in. Consider Mel Gibson and why and where he says his outburst came from when he was drunk. I have it on good authority that when Mel is sober up ladder cleaning out the gutters of a property mel owned and was renting out, he was a lovely guy. (Aka happened to be in town the agent told him the gutters needing cleaning so Mel did it... With a cheerful smile on his face.) (but childhood practice in being in social situation with bigot stuck like shit, and came out with alchohol (reduced inhibitions))

Again I ask people to ask themselves
A question I most certainly am not asking the reader of this post but i am suggesting they should ask themselves is when I play mafia "

Am I practicing being the person that I want to be.

"
As a hint: I will indicate that how I play mafia and get reads is I try really really hard to put myself in the mindset of other people and think like they would, with the knowledge, skills, emotions that they do. Sometimes I find pretending to be the people I have played mafia with or read the games of to be really really unpleasant as I don't even like imagining I think like they do.
The most notable exception ever: In this game the hardest thing I ever did in my mafia life was purposefully put myself in Viomis shoes. And remember/relive how I felt when a related thing happened in my own life. That was just bad and unrelated to the person as it was entirely the situation burning me up.

@viomi If the above reads like anything other than compassion for your situation PM me and I will write version of English that means what I say, with only you as the target audience and be very clear.

[AxleGreaser]

^ not what he said.

I haven't done much modding yet (just some newbie games) but when I do I'm going to make releasing of pts mandatory. No editing or anything. If you don't want it seen don't say it.

Please note the following is theoretical. The theoretical basis of these abstract statements is as fact based on things I saw in the combination of all the scum PTs I have ever seen.

I like simple rules too.
Humans are not always simples.

Scum PT can at times be a different.
Something someone once said to me is scum buddies are best buddies. And as such humans in the scum PT can a support one another as humans. And that is a good thing. The alternative of
letting your scum buddy just go through things alone perhaps play badly as result and hurt your wincon.
or interacting with them in an interpersonal way you might normally not do in public thread as you would have taken it to PMs.
or break what you would normally consider privacy barrier and talk to them in the PT.
is one too many dilemmas to put on a scum player for me. They are not robots simple rules dont always work well.

and note it gets worse. If you interact with a person, showing them compassion that may in fact bait the person you are showing compassion to into saying more than they normally would.

Awww shucks Axle is really saying he showed Math compassion

. And you'd be bad at mafia too I take it. Math showed me compassion and I as an indirect maybe/causal result made errors of judgment and I stated personally identifying details about RL me. Truth. I suspect Math cant even make sense of how and where that happened, but it is what happened. I also have a really strong tendency to make my statements about me as I have a right to disclose that. What happened in maths head i don't rightly know, and am not rude enough to ask, nor judgmental enough to assume I can guess.

So as a mod, if I ever decide to be one, no I don't plan to brick wall hard impose those rules. As a guiding principle sure fine, I have a private game theory reason for my rule that scum PTs will be largely/normally be opened up. But unique situations always have the potential to arise. YMMV.

The alternative of as a mod watching scum buddies watch one another suffer as humans but be unable to help them (empathise) lest they say things or bait personally exposing reactions out of the other person. Is not where I am at.

I am also not saying that is where you are at. Very few people view the world the way I do.

If you don't want it seen don't say it.

Finally note this: I fucked up in the scum PT and included what regarded as

personally identifying details

about me in the PT. Why? None of your business. (Some of the reason is now above) What none of your business. How significant? Well that I will say. meh in hindsight now I have really come down and got some sleep it is not that much more than there exist somewhere else on the net. In general the principle that people and RL privacy are thing to protect. Um yes.
And its your rule that if anyone makes that mistake they would not get elided but exposed to google forever? .... really?

Sure now I know not to sign up to your game.
Please note in advance if I am mod and my rule says this....

If you don't want it seen don't say it.

If shit happens I will be a surprise bastard mod and allow the editing and maybe never even say I did. because not.

[AxleGreaser]

well yeah...
I was in it
so...
There's like 3 pages of me wondering where in the world whiskers is.
riveting stuff.
So riveting not even my scum buddies read it all.

Now suddenyl everybody wants to red it, when during the game people wouldn't even admit they read my posts. That is one of these i am sure

[AxleGreaser]

I don't really know what went on in the scum pt so I can't really make a judgment call. I think everyone has a right to privacy so I mean like if you accidentally posted your address or something then sure, I could understand not wanting that to be public or something.

not that simples but, it certainly narrowed the field or confirmed a guess. O r made random humans from decades ago suddenly say hey Axle is that guy.

So yeah life for mods is not simple, which is why, I defended Pies choices.
As I said though may last post was truely hypothetical. I make no warranties whether this case is more or less severe than that. I also don't actually know.

Its cool.

[AxleGreaser]

I think there was an argument that if you say something mean or w/e that should be edited out so the player you are trash talking doesn't get mad/you don't look like a dick and I'm just of the mindset of don't say it and if you do live with whatever happens.

I will also state I am pretty sure there was significantly less trash talk in the scum PT than there has been in the post game.
In fact that thought is currently hilarious. We had the opposite problem maybe. Too much humanity and empathy, not an excess of judgmentlism.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm not really sure why you fussing about the cat alt is a hot buttn topic that needs to be edited out but w/e

if cat alt? == whiskers.

Then nope I think not much whiskers related is involved.
Its just the three pages of me wondering where whiskers is ... I expect no one will ever read again or even a first time.
It was very a deep purple moment.

[AxleGreaser]

I haven't done much modding yet (just some newbie games) but when I do I'm going to make releasing of pts mandatory. No editing or anything. If you don't want it seen don't say it.

I think nothing should be edited out for strategic gain.
However this game crossed a rather personal barrier for me and caused a lot of mental health issues to the point I almost replaced out a lot and it makes Mafia really hard to care about in general. It is more the personal.

There's certain struggles that I have that I may not want public. For you to say then show it all is callous and rude.

Ebwop

The point, except as usual I have more words.

For you to say then show it all is either callous and rude or unthinking of what may actually be involved.

and yes in the end the effects of unthinking actions have those same real world consequences.

and if they were systemic systematically expected amount of not thinking before speaking that person like a tiger is dangerous. And maybe even as dangerous as something malicious but not malicious.

and NOTE NERO && ETAL;
This discussion, baited this "There's certain struggles that I have that I may not want public."

we could stop doing that now, and wait until Sunday.

[AxleGreaser]

Go pieyan best mod.