Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron
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Did I say something that didn't make sense or are you just trying to make me seem bad to get a town player lynched? If it's the first could you please explain instead of being stupid. K, thnx bai.Nightfall wrote:
More like a slip of the scum- um I mean tongue...Coron wrote:What I meant was all three mafia, my bad. In a mini it is usually fairly safe to assume 3 mafia, though there are some corner cases that have 2 sets of 2 or mountainous with just 2.
-Coron-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Your defense of Nai is noted.Stewie wrote:
Putting pressure? What are you pressuring him to say or do? There's nothing for him to defend against.Jules wrote:I put FOS in all my games on the person I had voted on because all the evidence was lost. We're not going to get anywhere if we don't start putting pressure on again though so I the vote went on-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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I was interperating. My interperatation did not seem like a stretch to me. You are allowed to have your opinion too.
I know I often do rereads of the threads, and often vote people based on old posts or even if their body of work is lacking.
Even if I've posted since these things have happened does not mean it's suspicious for me to vote you now.
If you find any of this incorrect that is your perogative.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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If he was just applying pressure to any random thing there were people with 2 votes(not 1) he could have voted.
A pressure vote isn't nessisarily a baseless vote.
Also this was a hypothetical not a like "This is exactly what happened" sorry if you misinterperated that.
However I do take your point. He did not elaborate on any reasoning for it, however I still feel you're pushing way too hard over some stupid random thing.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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overreaction, overdefensive.Nai wrote:Right... And FOS and a Vote on me. Fantastic.
Vote: Coronfor an obvious scum tactic of throwing suscpicion on people for an FOS and... Well, nothing.
plays it up as a "slip" without really expanding on how it is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.Nai wrote:I'm enjoying my vote on Coron, to let you know. Especially with that slip.
fishing over a stupid worthless page 2 bandwagon.Nai wrote:I think Coron should probably start claiming right about now.
Continued overreaction and saying he thought I might have info, he still persued trying to lynch me. For all he knows I was a cop with one guilty trying to feel out connections to my guilty result.Nai wrote:My main argument is that he's far too sure of himself, and I really don't see, in any way, how he can be like that. I mean, I can see how it would be a joke to begin with that he calls me and Nightfall scum buddies (me included ONLY because Nightfall voted for me), but he hasn't let it go. That suggests to me that he has some sort of outside information here. And there's no way he would have given an item so broken as to say "You have a one-shot chance to find a scum and all his buddies", or any such thing. To hold onto a belief is playing like Fritzler, and I find that Fritz is often wrong. So...
Overall his reactions seem similar to some I've seen by scum. Very overreactive to small things, very very jumpy play.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Posts in the game. Those AREN'T actually things that happened in the game but rather an example of why it makes sense that I need and got more reason to vote you as the game goes on.Nai wrote:First of all, I have absolutely no idea how you are counting posts here.
almost everything if not everything I quoted for reasons I suspected/suspect you is before I voted you so I figure you meant that I was suspicous of you before themNai wrote:Second of all, you didn't even random vote ME in your first post. You built a case off of me by the reaction of mine (a humorous reaction) off of an FOS onto me.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't post 15 still PAGE 1?Nai wrote:And by post 15 of yours, or of anyones, it's probably time to stop random voting. Any vote at that point is not random.
Honestly I have absolutely no F'ing clue what any of this means.Nai wrote:So you based your case off of a humored reaction from me following your FOS, and have been adding crap to it ever since to make a case. And you can't even cite the correct posts.
You and I actually agree on something.Nai wrote:I also see a problem with the fact that Coron and I are the only ones posting any content whatsoever, and the rest of the game is lurking.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Sure, I consider it scummy. Perfect would actually be a decent lynch, I mean he's saidthreethings. And with Luna I compare it to the body of work (6 posts) in this game and it seems to fit in with the style that Luna seems to be using, one I find kind of newbie-like but not really scum-like.
Sure, there votes were scummy, but Nai has done that AND so many other scummy things.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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HackerHuck, that's a good post, Now if you could like put them in order of suspicion afterwords it would be greatly apreciated.
Also, Nai, two and four on that list areassumptionsyou made to try to make me look bad, and if you take a closer look, it is in theory possible to seemingly very improbable that things worked the way you say.
1 is true and I have no problem with.
2 you're saying I don't have a reason even though in the post I stated the general reason WHICH I BACKED UP LATER WHEN PRESSED ON IT.
3 it's not a 'lack of a reason' but other than that I was acting that way because I DID have a reason.
4 Again you're making the assumption that I didn't have a reason in the first place and I'm just making up this stuff that fits withing the originally given discription on the spot.
So, if you want to try to tell me how my backing to my arguement doesn't fit my original description I will hear it, but these baseless assumptions have to stop.
For reference, the post where I switched my vote to Nai:Coron wrote:You're reactions, especially Nai's have buried the needle so to speak on my scumdar.
In early game I often play for reactions, if I see something worth pursuing I go for it.
And I take offense to the playing like Fritzer comment.
unvote Vote: Nai-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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ALL FOUR OF THE POSTS THAT I QUOTED LATER WEREBEFORE[/bI VOTED YOU.
This means I was talking not just the one post, but ALL of those reactions into account.
Stewie I'm trying to figure out how the premise of overreacting or overdefensiveness being scummy can be seen as "overreacting" please enlighten me.
You don't think these are scum tells? You think I should just throw these scum tells out the window? I don't really understand.
very mild FoS: Stewie-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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You've repeatedly said I've built a case off nothing without in any way backing this up dispite my repeated protesting that you were saying things without backing them up.Nai wrote:My case on him has been built on the fact that he is overconfident, and his building a case off of nothing is part of that.
It's worth noting that, when Coron was defending Jules before, Jules is defending him now.
And, yes, I suppose that would be interesting to note.
To some degree even to me, if nothing else for future reference.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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oh yes actually I remember something I had seen in a reread.
In Nai's fourth post this appears:
Bolding mine.Nai wrote:My main argument is that he's far too sure of himself, and I really don't see, in any way, how he can be like that. I mean, I can see how it would be a joke to begin with that he calls me and Nightfall scum buddies (me included ONLY because Nightfall voted for me), but he hasn't let it go.That suggests to me that he has some sort of outside information here.And there's no way he would have given an item so broken as to say "You have a one-shot chance to find a scum and all his buddies", or any such thing. To hold onto a belief is playing like Fritzler, and I find that Fritz is often wrong. So...
So, why would she think I have outside information? Guilty concience much?
Also, I don't see why it would be out of the question for me to have been cop/tracker/whatever, and trying to get reactions from people in conjunction with my result. Even without it I don't see how it's at all out of the question for me to be trying to get reactions.
Basically the idea is this: I threw out a completely oddball theory, acted sure of myself and saw how people reacted. Nai reacted EXACTLY like RUH ROH THIS GUY KNOWS SOMETHING BETTER GET RID OF HIM.
Of course you're free to have your own opinions on this, but yeah.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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[sarcasm]Alright! Why don't we play mafia this way? LET'S ALL BE FRIENDS AND NOT ACCUSE ANYONE OF BEING SCUM AND SIT HERE AND STAGNATE FOR 3 MONTHS! Once all that is done the mod will put a 5 day deadline down and productivity will be up 600% for that but we'll still only get about 30 posts in that time and end up lynching someone mostly randomly. I love that style of play man. I wish we had more of that around here.[/sarcasm]-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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1. I find it unreasonable to assume I had some sort of information or especially information on more than one other person.Stewie wrote:
A few notes:Coron wrote:oh yes actually I remember something I had seen in a reread.
In Nai's fourth post this appears:
Bolding mine.Nai wrote:My main argument is that he's far too sure of himself, and I really don't see, in any way, how he can be like that. I mean, I can see how it would be a joke to begin with that he calls me and Nightfall scum buddies (me included ONLY because Nightfall voted for me), but he hasn't let it go.That suggests to me that he has some sort of outside information here.And there's no way he would have given an item so broken as to say "You have a one-shot chance to find a scum and all his buddies", or any such thing. To hold onto a belief is playing like Fritzler, and I find that Fritz is often wrong. So...
So, why would she think I have outside information? Guilty concience much?
Also, I don't see why it would be out of the question for me to have been cop/tracker/whatever, and trying to get reactions from people in conjunction with my result. Even without it I don't see how it's at all out of the question for me to be trying to get reactions.
Basically the idea is this: I threw out a completely oddball theory, acted sure of myself and saw how people reacted. Nai reacted EXACTLY like RUH ROH THIS GUY KNOWS SOMETHING BETTER GET RID OF HIM.
Of course you're free to have your own opinions on this, but yeah.
1. I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that you have some sort of information. If, for no apparent reason, you are sure Nai is scum, then it follows that you have some extra information (either that or you are nuts ). Cop sounds unlikely because, as Nai explained in the very same post you quoted, you didn't just say that Nai was scum, but that Nightfall was scum with him. Furthermore, given that being so confident with no apparent reason, and that it follows that you have extra information, it would not be a smart thing for a cop/tracker/whatever to let the scum know, because scum like to get rid of anyone with any extra information, other than themselves.
Ok, I guess it was one big point.
A. If I had info on more than one person, I'd just make the game about half over right now by claiming that info.
B. If I were scum or cop I wouldn't nessisarily want to out myself by doing something I wouldn't normally do(see: other games where Coron has done this)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2793 - Technically I was cop, but I didn't have a result. Guy turned up scum.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2498 - Doctor, guy didn't turn up scum but wouldn't have been a bad lynch anyway...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2363 - Nurse, guy was town.
I'm sure there are more examples all over, but these were the ones I could remember to look up.
2. As tracker/Cop/whatever one might press for info THEN claim, before the day is over so they can get any possible protection from doctors.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Oh, come on. It would be impossible to be THAT much like that without thinking about it conciously. I would act differently as cop or scum the same way. The idea is that it DOESN'T mean ANYTHING that I do that. Actually off hand I can not remember any instances of me doing this as scum in forum mafia, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't or even haven't, that's for sure.
The idea is to generate discussion, often games die in the first 4-5 pages and it's hard to get intrest restored. By making accusations I both jumpstart the game AND get information that will help later in the game. It also allows me to do the same thing as cop without giving away the fact that I am cop.
I believe that for a defense by playstyle you MUST have 2 things: 1) show your track record of doing this thing and 2) be willing and able to defend your playstyle.
I believe that I have now done both of these.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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OMFG!!! IT'S A SCUM SLIP LOLZ.Nai wrote: though, since I'm assuming there's a 3 person mafia (given the game size).
Though I would like an explanation of what you mean by "playing for coron most of the game".
Not that I'm denying it true, not yet at least, since I do not yet understand what you mean by it.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Stewie, no, I don't find that being typical newbie scum play. I see that as a player ACTUALLY MAKING SENSE FOR ONCE.
As for the ad hominem arguement:
Sure, he did mention that you had the memory of a goldfish, but he also presented the reasons that allowed him to come to this conclusion, he told you exactly why what you're saying is wrong and THEN moved on to the personal attacks. That might be unfriendly play(which honestly I might do a bit much of myself) but it's not ad hominem and it's not scummy.
IMHO we have a perfectly reasonable reason for him to change his FOS to a vote if we think instead of not thinking, if you want me to quote the post where I explain it I can, but I feel you are likely capable of finding it yourself.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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No, no, this would be an attack on the person: He has in the past based his arguements on things that didn't happen.Nai wrote: And, Coron, it doesn't matter if he gave reason for attacking me. The "what does a priest know about marriage?" bit is an ad hominem, but it's a logical question, since a priest probably never got married. However, it's an attack on the person, trying to remove the support from their argument by making the person seem unfit to give that argument. And that's what he was doing by 'memory of a goldfish', and THEN, when I said that it was posts lost in the crash, his tune changed.
or maybe..
In the past he has done exactly this same thing.
That was NOT a clear example of ad hominem, because it isn't EVADING dealing with the content by attacking the person, it's taking information gained from his response to the content to attack the person.
These are too very different things.-
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Coron Shameless Plug
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Yeah, sorry stewie, I was replying from memory and forgot that bit. No, I do not really think it is overreaction.
Also, Nai, he shouldn't really have to defend something that *didn't* happen.
Maybe it did happen, I don't really remember anything that happened during the crash, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to so I don't really find it scummy that he didn't remember that.-
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