Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

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looks like im playin team mafia after all

hello everybody (* >ω<)

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Hi Pooky hi midway hi PB!

clidd isn't in the team discord so no headstart for me

hi Murderkitty!

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murder how sure are you on Noraa relative to how sure you were on D2 of Pooky v. FL

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I don't want to clog the thread with a lot of stuff that probably isn't relevant anymore but also I really want to try

i think midway early is slightly town but he got heat for 0.5 seconds including by an anonymous source from a separate team which surprised me I guess. i lightly like his early stretch anyway

Cakes vaguely reminds of me all the way back to 2132 where he gets "irked" by something early and presses on that. I swear the same thing happened in that game (i was scum he was town) so consistent opening

I don't know how anyone can vote Jake and seriously expect something AI from that. it is maybe notable that he sheeps cake onto SPF but with his own reasoning instead so technically not a sheep. he finds her 'scummy as fuck' after the fact but not before

I believe I see why several players suspect Noraa early -- she hasn't done anything fun or happy in RVS and has just spectated throughout it while still posting mostly blank fluff on occasion. I assume that is why, because that is atypical for Noraa. something i would be wary of is how you're feeling will affect how you're posting drastically (for me, and I feel this is the same case for Noraa) much more than alignment would. maybe "I'm angry rn" is an excuse, but maybe not -- it happens to me all the time and then everybody yells about how i seem off and yayayaya

Murder, how much of Noraa's absentness (although not total absence, just watching with fluff 1 liners sometimes) factors into the present scumread?

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Pooky on a scale of 0 to soul mason, where is Kanna

Will you guys kill me if i start quoting ancient shit? I started getting into it and commenting on things but im aware that can be annoying for the rest of the game and im not terribly sure any of it will prove useful

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Spoiler: thoughts pages 1-21

Jake's vote on spf implies that he was reading back on the votes of his wagon. I think I would find this slightly town indicative because reading back on his votes implies that he is trying to sort his wagon.
However, I also don't agree with almost everything he said on the ensuing page or so, but he seems to generally believe in what he is saying? Meh.

I can understand this argument, however, it is more interesting to me that he didn't mention SPF being scummy until after Cakes does -- and his reasoning isn't related to Cakes, either. how is going back after the fact when it's convenient to SR there town indicative?

in my one game with Jake he didn't actually play the game, im very pleasantly surprised but also probably cognizant of how Jake probably always appears scummy in his other games

Zaiden's entrance looks town

i could totally see him being coached if that's why you TR him

What?! Coached into joking around? zaiden hasn't said jack that is game content so far from what i can tell

I see that Gypyx elaborates that he'd be coached because he's new, but that does not explain how the content just doesn't seem like something you'd be coached on (?)

Noraa, when are you planning on doing things?

Why do you care? It's like page 10.

Ok then don't "mishang" me for doing nothing.

Are you alright Noraa?

i townlean Zaiden off the bat for being so comfortable for what i presume is his first forum game.

I have never seen Noraa play like this, not as scum either

I will not be attempting to read Noraa today I don't think

Jake wagon is fine I guess but also that dude is pretty scummy as town (see Smoke-Filled Antechamber)

I don't like either of these sentences.

maybe cakez scum TMIing jaketown

weird dis-engage off noraa

I dont think cakes says that as a partner to noraa, that's probably plus town for him if thats the case not the other way aroujd

I don't like Zaidens case for elimming Jake today

I read this -- it seems like Zaiden's case is that Jake fell back on being LHF rather than try to prove himself as "high-hanging fruit". i disagree that Jake would do that, i dont really think he would. I can see why Zaiden would think that's an excuse for Jake though. Curious what he thinks now

well, also that i'm curious how saying that 2 players who are individually scummy but pushing each other have high odds of one scum is scummy to say

I'm not individually scummy. In fact, most people here should be able to see what I've been doing. If you don't, look closer.

I wonder if this develops into something ? at the moment i find Noraa's play to be odd but whatever this is could help

People are legitimately scumreading me?

mostly that you're painfully null compared to your postcount

if ya got any super duper town post i'd be happy to have it pointed out though

i think midway has been generally slightly town from vibes, i think midway is better at town than scum and he's been creating a ton of content so far. maybe the content itself isn't exceptionally towny but i think he probably doesnt have as much presence as scum

(@Zaiden)

Why would you expect town to immediately prove that they aren't? From my experience, Jake tends to be general LHF player, and it seems like he is aware of that so why should he try to prove himself otherwise. Also, I don't think Jake was accused of being LHF, he just straight up admitted it which is interesting.

Yes

lightly like Jingle townreading midway -> voting Gypyx on his catchup which aligns with my feelings so far

Gypyx

if no one is pinging you, and midway is a nothing read for you, how does that translate into midway being your main suspicion as opposed to the other null reads? Specifically this thought process:

if you were town, i'd expect you (including anyone else) to say something towny, here idk if i just can't see it, but your ISO is nullville to me

Well I'm town, so I guess you just can't see it :roll:
Can you explain what makes me scummy if my ISO is supposedly null?

i litterally just told you why lol

you're scum cuz you're null

and also that i don't have anywhere else to go tbh lol

and also that i don't have anywhere else to go tbh lol

lolwut

no one pinging me basically

"I just told you why, it's because you're null"

"Everyone is null"

your actual reason for voting midway is because he's null?

Not sure why midway is getting SRed I like his posting

Yea

I'm around page 15-16 and i lean that there's scum in Gypyx/Noraa so far

it's funny how Cakes/midway seem to be under suspicion by a certain group whereas Gypyx/Noraa is more towards the other, at least from what ive seen by cakes n jingle

Not sure why midway is getting SRed I like his posting

good for you. I'll go ahead and just say I solved half the game
Cakey/Midway

Pretty sure Noraa did this in Death Curse where she put 2-3 players together and solved it early

Big talk of the town on pg 18/19 is this post by PrivateII

Perhaps I will after I get more confidence.

pedit : i personally like monty's pythons, can we let him vibe for one day?

Yeah, I'm down.

Vote: Noraa

Might just be my unfamiliarity with Noraa, but I'm having trouble figuring out where she's coming from with her posts this far.

Also not overly liking Spring Breeze, but that's fine. Cheeto is good.

Pedit: Cheeto may not be good oh no. Hm.

i didnt think anything of it when i read it. Maybe the pedit is a tad awkward. It's probably more significant that so many people jumped on it, maria, cakes, SPF, all with their own 2 cents. From what i can tell the argument is that it reads awkwardly which i suppose is fair. I liked the Noraa vote

noraa has come off as really cagey about people fos'ing her/throwing shade on her in this game, and i think that meshes well with the fact that she's still giving genuine consideration to whether or not private's vote on her is scum motivated

i think noraa!scum would be more likely to let people throw shade on private and discredit the person that's actively scumreading her, instead of expressing doubt about whether or not private is scummy. it feels slightly town indicative

this is the post in question:

I still don't see anything crazy wrong with Private's post. Is it because generally a list mod won't post something flimsy like that? Do I actually have to go meta them?

"Do I actually have to go meta them" feels like overdoing it to me. i think if Noraa is scum that is probably private town and it's more of a whiteknight / not joining the procession of scumreads on a townie on purpose. noraa is smart enough to know it will look opportunistic if she immediately jumps on the fresh privateII bandwagon -- instead she is like "Well i dont see anything wrong but maybe I'll have to go meta them" which comes off more.. open ended so she can switch if it's necessary down the line and also just kind of unnecessary -- like where does the idea to meta Private from 1 post come from ?

She doesn't do anything to dissuade the pressure on them in any case, the only thing she does here is appear right if PrivateI is town flipped down the line.

Also with regards to Noraa's responses to pressure, they are way more abrasive than im used to, do not know what that means

Midway is very towny by meta.

hey thanks clidd

I'm into the Cheetory/Cakes/SPF-heavy area afterwards and im zoning out hard so im going to play live for a while probably

My conclusions though? I think midway is a good bet for town based on both his play and others reads of him. I have various small town leans on Cakes/Jingle/maybe PB so far but even those are partially based on my evalution of Gypyx/Noraa which has been fairly negative. I think Noraa is playing noticably differently and not really in a good way, she's maintained her hyper-posting identity and thats basically it, she seems really "abrasive" at times which is my best way of putting it. im not sold because emotions play a huge part but the last time i gave Noraa benefit of doubt for that, i was wrong. Murderkitty floated the idea of her intentionally playing this way to purposefully go off meta, which is potentially possible. i also did not like her follow up to PrivateI at all

@Pooky for more clarification, do you have an actual reason to townread Kanna or are you just saying that Kanna being scum would generally hurt you?

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Also I don't know who this murderkitty is that must be some other user

mb

I'll vote once i've got a more complete understanding of the game, i wont be too long

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Townreading Pooky a bit more from that interaction.That seemed relatively hard to fake lol

how is going back after the fact when it's convenient to SR there town indicative?

I was assuming that he went back, looked at his votes, and independently arrived at the spf scumread. I'm not sure if this is actually what happened though even though his wording implies so.

If she is town, she is changing her meta because she really doesn't want to get miselimed and cost her team.

Heh, this seems unlikely to have happened.

Well i think that's the impression he was going for at least. i just felt it a very funny coincidence he finds her very scummy when SPF just so happens to be getting some of the only pressure that was in the thread at the time. that's more just RVS reasoning anyway though so whatever on that

why do you say that with regards to noraa?

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Spoiler: pages 21-26

i see at least Cakes and midway are concerned PB was getting reads too easily, i was slightly plus town on his rapid fire confident reads and general attitude he's displayed so far, like expecting to be nightkilled and all that

Lol I was TR'd that whole game and nailed Shelly, Titus and DGB as scum. I didn't have to effort, I had already caught the scum.

LOL @ TR'D THE WHOLE GAME

LMFAFO IM SORRY BUT LOL

i am inclined to agree with SPF's reevaluation of PrivateI in 581, at least with the idea that the reactions to Private were probably excessive.

608 doesn't come off as a very good post by Gypyx to me. it's like he's being careful to justify what he's doing every step of the way while accusing Cheetory of overjustifying something else. what i mean is it's just a weird by the numbers looking post to me: "I agree with this consensus townread, so ill vote X because this and this" and the reasoning is a tad forced imo. I might be wrong i guess and maybe Gypyx just doesnt have a more interesting read at the moment than that

Deeply curious where the Zaiden suspicion comes in later, so far my evaluation of him is that he's a tad stiff yeh but not in a way i'd draw a conclusion from yet. on his 617

i think Cheet's approach to Zaiden is a good look for him 641 and on

highlighting Noraa 651:

This post pinged horribly for me. It seems like a very good way to agree with a consensus TR but then also shade me and all of my reads. And all this rand town stuff is annoying. Feels like you don't wanna commit to a single read.

The player being talked about is Jake by SPF, i dont think it's unfair to put him at a very precursory slight town or slight scum level

I get the sense that youre making this up, like i lean a bit that this isn't your real thought process

Wow im concerned now. I've never heard Dannflour's name in terms of playing mafia but ik they modded a lot. I expect better reads than this from them and you tbh.
When I saw this, I immediately started thinking that you were scum pushing Private and me. To be honest, I agree Private's post was scummy but it was also extremely LHF-y and from my experience, the mish mash mods can sometimes be full time LHF.

Imma go ahead and say
Town: Noraa, Gypyx, Private
Scum: Jingle, Midwaybear, SPF (with Jingle being the strongest SR)

How does that translate into a Private townread? And to go further, why does PrivateI being a mishmash mod really play into anything, and why did you want to meta them based on their single post earlier?

Hey Wanna and Pooky .... is this public flirt fest necessary?

Why do you care about players fluffing about the thread all of a sudden this game?

i do worry a bit that im becoming confirm biased, but this catch up post ingeneral doesnt say anything that i feel really hard that Noraa would actually believe

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off the bat

i love doing that

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IM SORRY KANNA I WAS SAYING HI TO PEOPLE WO SAID HI ON THE PAGE I PROMISE I DIDNT FORGET UUUUU

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Spoiler: 27-32

657 -
Noraa scum implies Private town strongly, i think she is townreading him way too hard

The rest of the post, enh. I agree with townvibes on cheet and SPF around that area. I think Gypyx is actively bad and Kanna im undecided. I'm not really sure what basis Noraa throws out the townreads on the last two exactly

Hi Morning Tweet

Hi cakes!

what does this mean?

Zaiden 635 reads super genuine

@Cheet why did you suddenly start efforting on page 26

Hi Morning Tweet

Disagree that Zaiden reads genuine literally anywhere.
It means Too scummy to be scum.

Noraa hasn't even mentioned Zaiden anywhere prior to this post (?) and he isnt in her scumreads. she's scumreading SS for something related to emoticons but not Zaiden

No ok so Pooky says Nancy TRs me and Midway bear says that means that I am obvtown but not Nancy/Pooky.

This is just such a terribly weird perspective. It doesn't make sense at all.

From my perspective, I am town because role pm but Nancy/Pooky TRing me doesn't necessarily mean anything to me and doesn't determine their alignment.

But like an outsider should think that only if Nancy is town, am I town. Because if Nancy was scum and I was town, I am LHF that is easily SRed.

No. This reeks of TMI.
Midwaybear is scum. 100%

I got the impression he was being sarcastic

Ok but I don't feel like Zaiden opens this way as scum here

I sort of got that impression too but im not going to fight for it i dont think

I also don't think it reads as especially genuine. Given Zaiden's teammates, I would imagine they could have coached him to make that post-- as either alignment.

I disagree with the opening being coached i dont see the point, but considering so many people seem to think this i might just be wrong / missing it

He hasn't played with anyone here before and he immediately starts dumping walls into the thread about how unsure he is and starts picking at players as scum? He is just inviting people to analyze him with his playstyle atm.
What is with y'all and coaching?

Maybe i'm not crazy after all, or maybe i'm scumsiding. I dunno. What is it about coaching that keeps getting brought up?

Hey Wanna and Pooky .... is this public flirt fest necessary?

surprised midway was the one to explain this, but yes, yes it absolutely is. i love pooky bear a lot <3

really liked that catch-up from noraa. feels genuine/good faith

ydrasse also dropped in and told me omgus'ing/townreading people feels like town!noraa energy. i feel good about that too

Is there something specific about it that seemed good faith to you? She used similar reasoning for each townread and every scumread either had no substance besides OMGUS or is the nightmare midway scumread

Also don't you find it odd Noraa is complaining about fluff to you?

do you feel as though you've been a pain in the ass to scum so far?

Absolutely; I throw at least 90% of correct and solid townreads early game and there's nothing that scum can do about it, other than discredit me, but there's no one in this playerlist who knows how to do that efficiently, other than Maria, Jingle and MAYBE Gamma (who had the chance to do it and didn't, so there's that).

this is the attitude from PB i usually associate more with town, when theres a player who adopts this kind of attitude D1 they're town in my limited large game experience

If you feel that I'm not being transparent with you at any point, feel free to call me out and I'll try to get better

i mean transparently because you seem to be holding a few cards against your chest with me. and to be transparent myself, i feel like in this playerlist, i think scum are more likely to push me, because i'm not blatant lhf so it doesn't look terrible, but i'm pretty easy to push. so if you could spill your thoughts on me if you still want me at the end of the day, that'll be great, okay? and engage with me if you're really trying to sort me please!

i reread the zaiden posts, and is it bad i want to townread him cause he's fun? however a lot of his reads aren't clicking for me although i'm not sure how to express this properly. not a fan at how he hedged around me. i'd be interested to see more from him and how he answers cheetory's questions

im a little surprised you liked Noraa's bundle of posts but are more neutral-scum on Zaiden.

HOILY FUCK THE ZAIDEN WALL

JEsus fucking christ

pedit: I see with regards to Zaiden, but are you able to explain more what looked good from Noraa by any chance Kanna

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And also sheeping reads on Maria herself.

Seems pretty obv to me that she's just making shit up to see what sticks.

This is pretty much Noraa's scum meta from two games of reference now

It's not that she's being erratic, it's that she's taking stances I don't think she believes in. I agree that erratic is probably just a personality thing from the interactions we've had.

This is exactly what im trying to get at with regards to genuineness

im starting to feel sick. I have to evaluate the ensuing Cheet-Zaiden interactions but my knee jerk is usually to townread emotion and it's likely im going to end up townleaning both if i read it so enh. Another time

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Gypyx i strongly shared that same sense of Noraa not believing in what she posted, particularly during that catchup sticks out in my mind, maybe i wrote something earlier that explained it well, maybe that's something i still need to give more thought.

and Kanna ill look more into your points as well -- about the private read in particular, what is it that makes it seem good faith to you (this applies to SPF as well earlier) -- like the act of not joining a scumread train itself does not imply town to me. id actually probably be more likely to defend somebody who already has enough heat on them as scum, in the case they are a more LHF town as least which is the impression Noraa got.

i do have a bit of a conflict where i do think the backlash to the private post was too great and i can see why Noraa wouldn't accept it though. she goes as far to hard locktown him for seeming too LHF and i was under the impression earlier that she did that quite quickly in response to maybe 1 or 2 posts of theirs they make after the fact

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Oh and the emoticon thing went over my head, i believe i see what she's getting at there now. It might not hold weight to me but you make a fair point that it's a pretty thought out kind of read, a lot more "complex" than just saying X is scummy for doing X or "this is scummy".

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This is pretty much Noraa's scum meta from two games of reference now

So vote?

keep yur tiny pants on cat

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

Your strongest suspicion this game is on somebody who is wrongfully scumreading you and that's basically all ive seen from Jingle so far ?

It's working

Am I missing something? Because I'm not able to sort morning off of this????
Morning's read on me is horrible but I realize that there are a lot of players that I expect to read me well that just don't sometimes. Like they catch scum!me a couple times and I'm like "yeah they will be able to tell this is town!me!!!" but then they SR me and I'm like "well ok so they never caught me in my scum games to begin with. it was just playstyle clash. what a troll."

You didn't comment on anything i said other than call it horrible (ノ﹏ヽ)

What separates me from Jingle? i searched through your ISO but i just cannot find your reasoning there -- aside from here whre you say you expect better of him

Most your posts are shit so idk why ur complaining.

is there something causing you to be so abrasive this game? I don't think it's outright scummy because it can happen to me always, but i just find it fairly new for you

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skimming after page 32

It looks like Zaiden got upset over a comment by Cheet essentially saying he wouldn't endgame and he thought that to be insulting him, then Cheet got upset by that. I have only seen someone get upset over something personal as scum once as opposed to many many times as town. Cakes mentions that Cheet would get upset either way, it makes sense as either alignment to be upset about being called an asshole, and that makes sense, but still

Particularly 813 by Chett doesn't seem like something you would make up to me. Zaiden feeling persecuted by Cheet feels like something that makes a lot less sense for a scum newbie to get upset over and quite frankly i guess i'd be surprised if scum!Zaiden intentionally uses that line to attack Cheet / defend himself. So yeah, I guess thats all ill say on that.

I can replace out if people think I'm actually being an asshole.

In all honesty, I'm glazing over your 1v1, but I don't think either of you are being particularly assholish by my standards. It just seems like a really boring fight that's not actually going to make either of you more solveable.

Might be worth it for both of you to disengage and look at other people. Maybe ignore each other until Wednesday?

I would agree with Jingle that i dont think either of them really overstepped but i do believe they believed that the other did and felt upset by that. i think it's less justifiable to fake getting upset there as scum as opposed to genuinely being upset about it. Of course, scum do get upset but i just dont see it happen as much and probably for both of them -- i dont think Zaiden gets upset there as a newbie!scum for the "not endgaming" comment -- and Cheet i dont think makes up 813.

Oh there's my greeting post! i glazed over most jake-gamma interactions and most Zaiden walls besides the one particular one, but ive got a few reads at least

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I believe that Murderkitty may be seeing the correct things about Noraa's play that makes it scummy -- although he does leave open the possibility that the change of meta is detached from her alignment entirely (she could be trying to avoid a miselim as town since she gets eliminated a lot).

an issue i have with the latter explanation is that i dont feel the changes Noraa is making (the abrasive parts) really does anything to help with that other than make her seem different/odd. The other problem is she comes off doing exactly what she does as scum which is where she projects several *confident* scumreads but the reasoning boils down to "they suspect me and they should be better than this". she acts like she's taking hard stances but it doesnt seem like she had an ample thought process to get there. I was pinged by this while reading 651.

The original point i was going to make was that Murdercatto has been able to successfully call out Noraa as scum on D2 in the last game where they met so him picking up on that is a good look if true. otherwise i dont have as much. I do want to note that piling on pressure on Noraa tends to make her harder to read for me, not less so, but enh i dont take issue with that strategy

pedit: @ SPF, although that ended up more talking about Noraa than Murder

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it's interesting to me that gyp is essentially LHF, but that there has been a fairly significant absence of pressure on him. i would almost expect a player like gypx to face a lot more pressure & opportunism from the scum team if he was town

unless there's some kind of meta reason why scum might be reluctant to go after him

I thought there was an alright amount of pressure on Gypyx, i do think he has a tad of a LHF reputation so perhaps thats the hesitation youre noticing

@Zaiden

i would love to hear just what Hectic thinks of me so far, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on that beyond "likes what he's seeing". Other than that do continue to let us know what your team thinks, i like that a lot

You didn't comment on anything i said other than call it horrible (ノ﹏ヽ)

Yeah what more do you want? Shitty meta cases take a shitload of time to pick apart and when people are tunneled like you, its a waste of my time and energy to pick it apart.

No, it's not, because hand-waving me does nothing for me. You haven't interacted straight with me once and you're the slot im most interested in looking at by far.

You also bother to make Jingle your strongest SR, but you defer to Kanna(?) to get a read on me -- why? I have similar reasons to Jingle for suspecting you.

and you haven't said anything other than you expect better from him but that constitutes a full SR. Why are you treating me differently?

i think noraa is just biased to people scumreading her so the more people are scumreading her, the harder she digs herself into a contradictory hole and that's why she looks so bad. it's hard to tell who's scum pushing her cause i can see a lot of town doing it as well. jingle's original case is just bad though, and i don't think he's explained why those points point to her being scum

this is why i would have preferred the Noraa wagon continuation hadn't happened, now I don't know whether Noraa is genuinely pissed off or if shes (probably still angry to a lesser extent) using it to blow me off.

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I know that Maria is an incredible scum player from what i've heard, so i suppose it was a tad surprising that a few players were describing her as high town. I can follow SPF's reasoning here, though, although i wouldnt put it out of a good player's scumrange.

Tell me what alignment morning is.

i'm leaning town, but it's very early. i heard morning is really good at scum hehe

you watched mme freak out probably multiple times during Lunacy, i can fake a large amount content to a degree but i would say overall this is untrue

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Yeah but its kinda stupid - those reasons I mean?
Like Zaidan is like "Noraa is jumping around and paranoid - town"
But then Jingle is like "Noraa doesn't have a clear path of thought - scum"
its like wtf. y'all talking about the same thing and calling me two different alignments for the same thing. Can people stop using shitty arguments that can literally be used to justify a completely different read???

Neither of those are my line of thinking... please dont brush me off like you'd do with those. i came to this conclusion by myself with possibly only Murder talking to me b4 my review factoring in

You are falling back on calling things scummy without reasoning, you just did it on the last page where you quoted the Zaiden paragraph and S_S had to ask "Why?". reminded me of these two.

As i read your 651, your responses towards both SPF and Jingle pinged as not genuine to me -- like your level of confidence with what you were actually saying didn't match. you're calling people hard scum (or hard town for Private) for nothing. And it's not consistent, cause with me you're just ignoring me and lumping me in with them without transferring the read, so i dont know what is so special about Jingle

i want to talk to you because i've reevaluated on this in the past, i have a habit of finding you scummy early as i recall, but i got there twice (although you were scum one of those times, but still)

Another thing im curious about is why you sound different this game, and i heard someone mention that you said you were doing this intentionally, if so why?

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i find i have a lot less luck trying to read the entire list in the first couple of days barring maybe one exception game

i feel like realistically the only thing i can be somewhat confident in on the first day is maybe a few townreads that are elevated above the rest. I feel like if you can just have a few town right then that's pretty good, altho i guess it's a lot of pressure in large games to know a lot because if you dont have many reads ur in the dark on most of the playerlist

scumreads don't usually come to me early but eh. i'm acutely aware that Noraa likes to trash people who claim they can read her pretty well but i have played, so so many games with noraa now, so id at least like to thin ki have an above random shot at it

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No, it's not, because hand-waving me does nothing for me. You haven't interacted straight with me once and you're the slot im most interested in looking at by far.

You also bother to make Jingle your strongest SR, but you defer to Kanna(?) to get a read on me -- why? I have similar reasons to Jingle for suspecting you.

and you haven't said anything other than you expect better from him but that constitutes a full SR. Why are you treating me differently?

Do I seriously have to spell this out?
I do think town!you could have a read this terrible on me and legitimately think its gold for some reason or another.
I don't believe the same for Jingle.

Wow, I gathered that Noraa and that is essentially what i've been saying. I'm asking why I'm different. and i don't think it's gold, thats why i'm having this discussion, or at least why i wanted to anyway

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I am really sorry that i'm upsetting you Noraa that was not my intention

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I don't feel like you've really cared to read anything ive said and you've hand-waved it like you did with saying Jingle's argument is bad, and yet, I'm different from him somehow. I feel like my case might even be more diverse unless i missed more of jingles posts. that is what i am asking about. yes, i get that you expect better from him but not me apparently, i got that

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I also have no delusions about being a god at sorting you and i odnt claim that

You did similar things in your scum games, youre changing your meta for reasons which i have not learned yet, and i noticed that jingle/murder came to this conclusion independently from my read

I am quite aware you will OMGUS and be quite emotional as town, and it can get into ur reads. it's actually somewhat unfortunate that I have probably played/watched you as scum more than ive seen you as town. The only example of you!town i have in my head was nothing like the other games too, perhaps because it was a replace-in, i dont know

I am sorry if im being unfair

[Morning Tweet]

Everyone calling ytou scum is definitely not true

And saying that I always read you wrong is just not enough for me to not try, especially considering that isn't true. I know this isn't going anywhere though

[Morning Tweet]

Well I'm not going to reply to your cases nor am I going to do anything that you're going to find obvtown from me. You'll have to come to that conclusion yourself and if you're town, now's the time to realize that I've not done even half as much AtE as scum!me would've done at this point, and that you're just completely and utterly wrong.

If u can't come to this conclusion, it doesn't matter keep waiting but trying to sort me day 1 in a game state where 2 people think I'm town is a horrible idea that will never benefit you unless you're scum ofc.

That does absolutely nothing to help me and it really irks me that the blame is on me when you will not even discuss a single detail of anything i said with me, even if you are town which is still very possible. it frustrates me a lot more if you're town that thinks of me this way -- i don't have a god complex or whatever behind reading you, if i did, i wouldn't even bother talking to you. You're refusing to engage with me based off a belief that i would form a bad faith read on you even as town like i have some sort of ego about it. I dont. Please dont think of me like that and really i dont think thats anyone's intention when they read you

Anyway, with regards to the fruit thing, you saying that Jingle intentionally went for you potentially as a result of crumbing a role -- but if that was his intention, why then would he acknowledge the soft? if im understanding correctly.

[Morning Tweet]

So also Hi pooky

And @Kanna ill get back to you on that -- but the games i had in mind so far have been my Bats Mini Normal, Death Curse, The Trials (large theme), and Pooky v. FL. 3 scum games and 1 town game, but im not entirely sure it matters

[Morning Tweet]

Ok, so he acknowledged the crumb in a way more like that, i see. I have a feeling about the soft/crumbing stuff that makes the idea of scum trying to bait out your claim highly unlikely -- but i see, i didnt know what the context for the acknowledgement was

[Morning Tweet]

i at least felt very strongly about my reasoning and that particular soft/crumb interaction i dont think matters though, so i dont think it's a case of turning a blind eye. i am not trying to be contrarian though and i get that my input isn't exactly useful to you

[Morning Tweet]

There is no significance to the soft/crumb and very weak is subjective. I don't even know why im talking at this point because i can be wrong and Jingle can still be scum -- like this isn't an outright reason to TR and sure maybe I'm wrong on you and im scumsiding. But as long as your suspicions on him are rooted in his read on you, i would need more than that

i should wait until i have time to actually go back and evaluate everything more, im really just operating on the impressions i got from the first read even still. Your reaction to me does make me feel you wouldn't talk to me like this or respond this way as scum since it wouldn't be justified, whereas if you actually are town and feel like im treating you unfairly then they are. And while you exhibit a lot of emotion as scum, it notably wasn't like, outright abrasive or at least for the most part as i remember. i recall something happening late death curse but from what i can recall it is not so comparable

[Morning Tweet]

[Morning Tweet]

I just don't like ATE in general. I would prefer people not to become dependent on reading others because they crossed a certain emotional line.

i dont like it either but that doesn't mean i can ignore it

You make a valid point that becoming dependent on it just sucks the fun out of the game though

[Morning Tweet]

i also call it a career is that odd

[Morning Tweet]

i dont mean it like a career career but i dont know what other word id use, like i call my spreadsheet "mafia career stats" or something like that

Also i would say i only really started playing in 2020, not 2016, so its even worse than you think (/﹏＼)

[Morning Tweet]

i have lost the battle against Calculus I and Calculus-based physics

You guys dont have to do anything else but id appreciate extra time if possible

my cureent townlist is midway, PB, Zaiden, Cheet, Noraa, and SFP with possibly midway slightly lower in case his scumgame has improved / it is good and i missed it. Zaiden and Cheet especially i townread from their exchange, and Noraa from hers with me. I think it is likely there is no more than 1 scum im reading wrong if any

[Morning Tweet]

Oh days last longer than i thought nevermind that

[Morning Tweet]

you were 0.5 seconds away from torching Murder that game lmfao

You and Kanna kill me with your morality tells

[Morning Tweet]

The difference is that there is a survey at the end of this game that will help my team win and if I get night killed N1 without calling out the whole scum team I am unlikely to score well on that survey. If I'm alive tomorrow I will obviously be reevaluating but it's not enough to just win this game, I need to be the town member driving the win as well.

Oh wow I didn't know about the survey

That's annoying i didnt realize we were being scored

regarding preflips i fall into doing them a lot because I tend to prefer reading interactions between a flipped/unflipped suspect and others vastly to actually finding that initial suspect. But it's also true that if it doesnt work it's largely less helpful

Cake post - lol at Gypyx saying he played a way as scum because he was trying to be town. Like i dont really think it means anything but that is funny

Eh i can kind of see 2001 as towny in a "idc if this looks bad" kind of way but in Silent Star Royalty (scum game) Gypyx didnt really pretend to have reads either

Cakes do you rlly have towntells that only Maria or otherwise only a small set of people are aware of?

pedit: HAHAHA MURDER

[Morning Tweet]

you were 0.5 seconds away from torching Murder that game lmfao

You and Kanna kill me with your morality tells

ok in revisionist history terms, I was mostly loudly claiming i was going to scroll murdercat to reaction test him.

like i was obviously lying about what I was going to do with the scroll :3

I guess thats fair that you didnt necessarily mean to kill him on the spot but it was advantageous for him to think that

you were 0.5 seconds away from torching Murder that game lmfao

You and Kanna kill me with your morality tells

it's not even a morality tell

it's just something you don't do to somebody who loves you because like cmon why would you do that over a silly internet game?

i would argue that because its a silly internet game that makes it okay by virtue of it being silly

but ill look more into it

[Morning Tweet]

what?

pedit: gypyx

[Morning Tweet]

Where are you b eing emotionally manipulated? @Pooky

i dont think doing the lover thing or whatever counts

I don't understand what you're expecting me to do here. "start a wagon" like how? Write a case? I only do that rarely.

i kind of doubt cakes could start a wagon with the amount of players suspecting him so I dont think its fair to accuse him for sitting back, unless thats something he specifically does as scum

Spoiler: about maria

I think maria's gut is probably more accurate/reliable than my headspace right now and I'd ideally like to coordinate with people I think are town.

is there an explanation for maria!town?

Weird shade out of nowhere

Creature thinks Gamma, Gyp and Maria are suspiciously

Rule of 3

CONDENSED THOUGHTS

*snip*

i'm also kind of concerned with how people blindly lock maria as town, it's almost as if people are scared to do anything else

I personally feel like Zaiden will become a more obvious wolf as the game goes on as you can see where Jingle will be the other way around so I would personally take a shot at them. However, if people aren't overly keen I will take the easy one.

^^i like this thought from maria

if maria is playing from a scum mindset, then it means that she successfully created a significant amount of momentum against zaiden and ensured that he would become the focal point of discussion today, only to deliberately switch her push onto a much more intimidating player and risk drawing a lot of heat on herself.

maria was already a universal TR when she made this post, so it's difficult to see the scum intent behind deliberately switching off of the wagon and the momentum that she singlehandedly created. the most simple answer is that her progression is coming from a town mindset

it's just maria saying i could do X or i could do Y. it does mean maria is probably town though

I don't get the weird shade here only to end with Maria=town

Yeah good call on Maria SB
Creature raised some good points against her in our PT
Cheet's desire to sheep her is suspicious

Shade but then directing focus elsewhere

I think it's weird that Maria has been townread by many for seemingly little reason yes

Cake avoids ever actually pushing Maria

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

oops I put spring breeze in two places
I think I will call them nulltown for now

I missed this before, if I'm right then this is just lol

y'all get to see something rare. a sircakez readslist!

town - pink ball, morning tweet, spf
nulltown - spring breeze, jake, midwaybear
null - murdersunny, spring breeze, gamma
???/halp me/ever so slightly edging on scum - noraa, cheet, zaiden
nullscum - pooky, jingle
scum - something_smart, maria, gypyx

Oh yeah and Maria!
I feel like my posts are not being read

Forgot he was distancing from Maria

I am caught up.

VOTE: Gypyx

This is my strongest scumread for reasons you can see scattered through my catchup. I also strongly SR Something_Smart, Jingle and Maria.
I am a little less sure about Pooky so I will call him nullscum.

Again never questioning or pushing Maria

Being concerned with maria being locked as town then concluding probably town anyway is kind of weird, although i suppose the point is that scum are too worried to SR her (?) Unsure how that translates to the whole thread TRing there though

i am deeply curious about the strong SR on Maria cause ive been under the impression there isn't much to work with on her so far

I see why pre-flippy stuff is being talked abt now -- it's like the only way one could hope to nail the entire team on the first day, even though i dont think ive ever seen it done. I lightly like if it's being engaged in although contingent on how accurate it is because a lot of times scum are overly zealous to set up a dying scum with a bunch of other people, this happened in death curse. Here though i lean it is actually because Murder is concerned with scoring the big bucks

[Morning Tweet]

what?

pedit: gypyx

I don't see how the quote you made is linked to your argument

Oh my bad, i can link it better

ok uh imma be real i don't recall why gamma is there

i'll try to trace back my thoughtprocess but no guarantees

^this is towny I think.

at the very least it's a whole-ass mood.

I highly disagree and I think this is kind of an odd assessment of that post. If anything it's pretty scummy because not being able to trace reads makes it sound like Gypyx was faking them.

my point being that i recall you falling back on not having anything in silent star royalty and particularly in the scum chat you didnt really have a direction you were trying to take most of the time -- i think you were kind of absent and fell behind in that game, so maybe not such a great correlation though

I want to way you were leagues more proactive in The Trials though, to the point where i believe i townread you

[Morning Tweet]

I townread you in the trials where you were actually pretty stand out compared to the rest of the game. Like i dont think i wavered on that at all and that was in a game with >50% of the playerlist being LHF/not playing

i do not townread you in this game and you're more similar to Royalty although i understand that royalty might not be how you always are as scum. However cakes watching you in Tenet and observing that you are playing similarly gives me the impression that perhaps you are just much more active as town

i think the confusion is that im saying i townread your performance *in that game*, im not townreading you here *because of that game*

[Morning Tweet]

Pink Ball's SB Case

Over-reliance on team

I think there is merit to the argument that scum may abuse their teammates for reads in order to absolve themself of responsibility and also get more unbiased perspectives on the game. In the posts you quoted, i suppose Kanna is somewhat guilty of this -- but it mostly just seems like she keeps quoting Infinity on Murder. If Infinity is a Murder-guru then i suppose it is plausible, this isn't super strong because it's just one incident dragged out over multiple posts

Following over leading

The way she approaches the game is by throwing an empty statement that makes you believe that she's working on her reads, and follows up by using someone else's insights to position herself as the original insight was of her own/create an insight based on someone else's. There's only one post where SpringBreeze shows us what she's thinking about the game instead of her teammates, and I have decomposed it to show you what's going on:

i think this is a way better point and Kanna's posts that are linked afterwards are more by-the-numbers ideas of posts you'd think to fake as scum -- "I agree with X", "I don't like X", "Feels out of place", stuff that isn't hard to come up with. In my previous game with Kanna i attacked her for a little while at first but she became obviously town as a result of a huge initiative she took casing another player and the interactions she had with them because of it

Pocketing Pooky, specifically the "I hope you're town" thing

I don't think Kanna really has to even try to pocket Pooky but maybe he himself is making that clear already lol. i get your point that she starts from a place where she is town and implies that pooky needs to prove he's town to her, but im not convinced she'd be more likely to do that as scum. She could forge a hard TR for random soul reasons and he would believe it, although maybe that would look kinda of bad/obvious i guess to people other than Pooky

I'm interested in the Zaiden progression you noted and id like to look at that more

Let's go lads. I'm down to take out these simpathisers.

VOTE: Spring Breeze

@SpringBreeze, why did you vote me when I didn't have a chance to defend myself and why are you encouraging simping?

of course you post like this ofcourse. i wonder if hectic doesn’t have friends and instead has an army of clones

was your first part serious at all? i must admit i am only 97% fluent in hectic. what’s your reason for voting me?

Feel like Zaiden kinda explained the vote in the post lol

murder, infinity wants to you start obvtowning so he can townlock you!

I'm just chillin til Titus tells me who the scum are tbh

better be fast! infinity machine will beat you to it!

zaiden/cheetory are the worst votes on me; would still like to hear from zaiden about it if he hasn't forgotten about me! cheetory's feels like plain omgus and terrible, but i must admit i have a lot of emotions right now with that &_&

right, so we haven't explained what's bad about Zaiden and i dont believe they've spoken between these

VOTE: zaiden i guess i dislike your vote on me the most.

reconsidering cheetory. i like his good faith to me and his haphazard randomness is quite townie. uncrowned also started reading the game and said he felt the same pings on midway early on and that hard push would probably be what he did if he was here.

speaking of midway, i agree with the townreads. i have little meta, but he's a strong PURE read for me. even his latest posts where he says his hot take of gamma town and then voting him 2 posts later. scum... probably don't do that

Still not really a lot

fairly sure zaiden plays like this regardless of alignment because he's from hectic/hopkirk's team and they're all fun people/it's a team gimmick. it's hard to read though because i feel like it allows him to make weird moves/reads. i have been skimming his posts a little, i'll reread them in a bit

p-edit: what do you mean "you don't want it to happen this early"?

I think this is in response to Cakes' defense and it's just whatever still

If you feel that I'm not being transparent with you at any point, feel free to call me out and I'll try to get better

i mean transparently because you seem to be holding a few cards against your chest with me. and to be transparent myself, i feel like in this playerlist, i think scum are more likely to push me, because i'm not blatant lhf so it doesn't look terrible, but i'm pretty easy to push. so if you could spill your thoughts on me if you still want me at the end of the day, that'll be great, okay? and engage with me if you're really trying to sort me please!

i reread the zaiden posts, and is it bad i want to townread him cause he's fun? however a lot of his reads aren't clicking for me although i'm not sure how to express this properly. not a fan at how he hedged around me. i'd be interested to see more from him and how he answers cheetory's questions

It's still pretty vague

fairly sure cheetory is town now. zaiden, less so, but i'd like to believe he is. not sure what questions he has on me/pooky that are being ignored, i'd be happy to answer them @zaiden

Yeah and here's the turning point where it became a lot more clear Zaiden wasn't going to be dying

i would say that Kanna had Zaiden as her #1 or close by virtue of the vote although even though she was comparatively pretty hard onto him, she didnt really substantiate it with anything. The only things I can see are actually tinfoiling him as town or saying she wants to TR there. and maybe that explains why she lets off of him, but ehnnn i just dont see anything that would indicate her heart was actually there. Maybe thats a result of not reading deeply at the time but its certainly not good considering i think Zaiden is town and that particular interaction definitely cut off scum's hopes for a miselim there, but she still sort of has to adjust for having such a "hard" scumread there by slowly moving him upwards. Idk if its unfair to expect more from her on Zaiden but yea

im running low on time, Jingle vote doesnt have much behind it either yeah, Pink Ball read is also pretty eh

Overall I think theres no good reason to townread Kanna from her progressions on Zaiden/Jingle and i think it particular its very possible Zaiden was an expected push that was gonna go thru for scum so i think theres a lot of merit to her progression on him being bad. i also do think if Kanna is town i can probably figure it out since i usually start off suspecting her -> a townread when she's town. i think that the Pooky pocketing point as well as overrelying on Infinity is less good but Kanna generally not leading anything and instead quoting to comment/follow is a decent one

bom bom bom

[Morning Tweet]

so why are we talking about it now?

Because Murder wants to gamesolve so that if he's killed tonight he still gets a high score for the event.

Apparently no one else realized there was a survey, despite me literally bringing that up when Cakez and Noraa asked me about how aggressively I was pushing my reads.

I think it's +town equity for murder, given that I don't think scumMurder would think to fake that concern, but I've been tr-ing Murder all day anyway, so...

yes and also generally playing to solve like it's your last day alive is exhausting esp if you have to be wrong a lot and know ur never gonna actually die

[Morning Tweet]

Well for what it's worth, I would like to give Pooky the benefit of the doubt on his soulread. Pooky, you said you've never been wrong on a soulread-- how many times have you been

right

? How many times have you faked a soulread as scum?

thats the strongest pro Kanna argument cause theey have this thing where its morally wrong to deceive each other (yes i know this is being unfair) that i do not understand

@Morning there are more examples on relying on infinity after the "point of inflection" that I didn't quote if you want to see if she's quoting infinity only about Murder (she isn't), but good catch nonetheless

Ok sweet

[Morning Tweet]

not a legit trust tell no just a soul vibey method where they can tell if the other is being genuine, i didnt mean to portray it like that

[Morning Tweet]

I take it Kanna claimed something like delayed IC or another role that confirms like that

what a coincidence

[Morning Tweet]

i'm not dying today. that is all.

and i'm not claiming until i've read the thread/made the responses i want

Oh is this all? hm hm

pedit: Nevermind yeah

[Morning Tweet]

if we live in a SB!scum world, i think jake's scum equity might increase slightly

Jake has been very quiet about SB.

i could not find any direct references to SB in Jake's ISO

but i could find an example or two of SB broadly shading jake while simultaneously shielding him at the same time - which is how i would imagine sb!scum would treat her partner in a situation like this

First - i dont know if you'll find direct references to most wagons in Jake's ISO so i dont put much stock in that

as for Jake, Kanna's most recent mention of him has him at LHF/null, but before that she ranked him below Gypyx as "LHF deserving criticisms". Also in the reads post Kanna has Gypyx as town, i would say yeah that points a tad more to Jake than Gypyx although i suppose it would be a bit odd for her to read Jake any other way, but if she has a partner in those two i think it suggests Jake

PB i dont think Noraa gets quite as aggressive with me the way she did as scum. I guess you could argue that she's trying to keep a sort of act going and that was a continuation of it, but i dont think that's what it is. Noraa probably doesn't do that if she isn't justified doing so

Gypyx that is the most chaotic wall ive ever seen, i like it though and i think that you're right to drop suspicions on "Late RVS vote" and "self-metaing"

Barring like a claim that makes sense i think Kanna has good odds based on lack of town and the "claim". Also i do lean that the scumread on PB isnt real

yeah exactly, you were scumreading me before because you decided to, but made no effort to solve me. that's what i call setting me up. i don't think you've made a single post trying to solve me and if that's not bad faith then

if you were so unsatisfied with my reasonings, for basically being not good enough for you, why couldn't you ask me about it?

i see that the argument being made is that Pink Ball is scum for not interacting with Kanna, although this strikes me as a bit far fetched and doesn't really make sense with the level of confidence Kanna shows in the read

Oh i see there's a bigger reply to PB's case that maybe explains it better but i am out of time. I kinda doubt my input is important and that its gonna change my mind but yea another time

[Morning Tweet]

.
Gypyx that is the most chaotic wall ive ever seen, i like it though and i think that you're right to drop suspicions on "Late RVS vote" and "self-metaing"

my paranoiad ass feels like this is pocketing, could you develop on why you like the self meta part?

no im saying i dont think your reasons to suspect Maria were particularly good and i like that you dropped them after a reread. Basically I like that u set out to explain why u suspect Maria but ended up reevaluating it instead

[Morning Tweet]

Your input is always welcomed, Morning!! Even more if it comes along with a vote

<3 thank u

[Morning Tweet]

More or less yes to midway 2480 with regards to the case, but I think that a lack of a townread on Kanna is sufficient plus im tempted to say "bs" to the delayed clain

Although i still havent reviewed Kannas big post a lil while back

i just got back from dentist too cakes, nothing exciting like wisdom teeth though, just tooth aching

bam bam bom

[Morning Tweet]

Uhhh, I look forward to those I guess.

[Morning Tweet]

uh noraas ones in particular, i look forward to both sure but one has a heavy amount of spice to it

[Morning Tweet]

SB wagon and players' reads on her

> Pink Ball drops his massive case. He has stated that he would get SB eliminated and this was clear for the majority of the day from what I can remember. He voted Spring originally in 610, keeps her as a scumread throughout, pressures her in 1216, and bam 1448 is where he states his intent to get SB killed. At the time judging from the previous page, Cake was receiving heat, Cheet just dropped a point about Jingle being possibly dissonant, there are wagons on Zaiden/Gypyx/Jingle at this time. Needless to say, i think it is accurate to say Pink Ball is the catalyst for the SB wagon during a time where many, many others would have been accepted. It is also probably worth noting that SB was a strongman which presumably is one of the stronger PRs

i will also mention that i think pink treating the game like he has to solve it asap before dying is towny

> SPF joins immediately ..

> Murder pressures Cakes but will catch up on other stuff another time ..

> S_S joins immediately

> Jingle wants to wait for PI's input

> Morning thinks there is way less time in the day than there actually is, im guessing as a result of Jingle mentioning "end of day" but idfk

> Gypyx doesnt get to it with his catchup, does agree to wallcase maria though and i think this combined with the case itself was towny

> Pooky doesnt mention it

> midway isn't opposed but is holding off for the moment

> Murder continues the cake crusade (also maria further down) but is interested in how SB will fit into his idea of the scumteam. He does point out SB's read post where she "soulread thinks he's town". this post gives me an idea

Spoiler:

it's true i don't think i've been super on ball with the game so i combed back through and i think these takes are a lot truer to my heart. list isn't ordered.

(TOWN) - cheetory is a townread, even taking away the emotional reason which i don't think i should focus on anymore. he's generally invested, and i especially like how he said he was going to go v/la but couldn't help but come back to comment on things about the game.
(TOWN) - noraa i think is town. she's actually playing very similar to a game i hard scumread her in and she was town. this is also one of the reads infinity feels really good about so i am locking in


(SOUL TOWN) - sircakez has in general been pretty unafraid to give his opinions, and tonally reads as blunt town. maybe it's a soulread, i just think he's town
(SOUL TOWN) - pooky is my randsoultown. we played a game just before and he was a lot like this, and i'd think scum!pooky would be trying to control the gamestate/do something meaningful. he does know this, but i still feel he's town, i suppose. he just doesn't seem to care.


(TOWN LEAN) - morning tweet, i think is town for the confidence with the noraa read. i've played with scum!morning briefly and don't think she likes to make waves.
(TOWN LEAN) - gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving


(TOWNISH BUT HESISTANT) - spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off
(TOWNISH BUT HESISTANT) - zaiden; i liked his attempts to scumhunt with the conversations with his team members. i looked back and think i am probably putting too much stock into that emotional read so i am flipping here again. tonally town because i find him funny, but bias aside, he's probably a light townlean/null.


(NULL) - maria, on reflection, i can see being similar to pooky so i'm not that suspicious of her being put to the side as town for a lot of players. personally, i have no idea and i don't think my opinion matters on this
(NULL) - jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination
(NULL) - pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.


(???) - murdersunny; i have seen murdercat in other games though and he generally has a lot to say. the fact he's popped in a few times and said he's had nothing to say/nothing is happening feels strange because i almost feel like he wouldn't be able to contain his opinions as town if he's town. the change in playstyle is leantown, but it also lets him get away with not offering opinions. i'm fully open to looking at his case though


(NULLSCUM) - s_s, i am nullscumleaning for popping in at apparently the right moments to make jokes, but doesn't offer anything.


(SCUM WITH REASONING) - jingle, i still don't like his original noraa push. the points are nitpicky and generally reachy to come to the conclusion that noraa is scum. i do like (agree) with his reasoning behind the PR point noraa brought up though. 1477 i feel is still weak suppliment for a "very confident scumread" on noraa. the first question cheetory asked about noraa was a "this is more likely read," and the second one was just an inconsistency. i don't think he answered my question about the BoP.

(No Mention, but notices she missed) - Gamma

(No Mention, but notices she missed) - PrivateII

(No Mention) - midwaybear

my team hasn't been around for this game, although infinity did say he was confident in noraa town, and he mindmelds with spf a while ago, and ydrasse said noraa was prob!town, which was also while ago

I think this pretty heavily implies Noraa being town, she even mentions Noraa twice with her teammates' reads. i already think Noraa is town anyway but thats nice

Cheetory I think is more likely town than not from this as well.

Cakes and Pooky reads are more constrained for being more gut/soul feely, im unsure where to place them in the hierarchy as a result. They come off as less genuine because of it, not necessarily scummy but more forced

Gypyx i already think is more likely town but i do notice that he had around 3 votes at the time so he was certainly on the table for some, i lean that Kanna doesnt put him upwards for nothing reasoning if they're scum mates

Kanna hedges the fuck outta SPF and Zaiden. Just focusing on Zaiden, i recall SB initially scumreading there but then you end up with this sort of messy read right after the bit where Zaiden got emotional and the heat got let off. Pink kinda already commented on this but it did read like Zaiden was the intended elimination but then he obvtowned so SB kinda didnt know what to do w herself. I dont really see why she doesnt either brush off that emotion reasoning (as some have done) or commit to it, this is maybe cause not everyone agreed Zaiden is town from it I suppose so she wanted to leave it open. I think that's the idea

Nulls are whatever, what is more interesting is her fake scumread on Pink Ball later in the day calling him bad faith. I guess you could say that she would do that for distancing but i thought it read genuine

i think the murder read is just kind of quirky cause i dont believe murder was ever considered as an elimination but she hedges on him being maybe scummy here without really saying a lot

i dont have an opinion on the S_S read, it's in its own category for her in slight scum, could see low risk distance or just S_S being town she felt like attacking

Jingle i think comes off good as he is virtually the only player she seems to feel strongly is scum for the 2nd half of the day. She expended the most effort trying to shade there and this was at a time long before she would know she would die

She forgets Gamma and Private which i would lean slightly you dont do to a partner ?? but she is aware that she missed them about 45 minutes later for whatever reason so unsure. Also she missed midway but doesnt even realize

I think my townreads overlap decently with this, I think Noraa/Cheet are strongest, Gypyx i lean and it leads me to believe Zaiden and Jingle are town as well. i dont think Kanna would have planned a distance as far back as Zaiden, and likely not Jingle as well, why would she even think she's going to die on this day? Pink Ball and Murder arent really interesting in this list but i think they are town too.

uh continuing on with what i was doing, Cakes is thinking about S_S and Gypyx at this time while arguing with murder abt the definition of scumhunting

>Cakes agrees emphatically with the case and joins, thinks PB is very likely town for it as well. Murder inquires as to what made Cakes nulltown at first then switch with the case. Cakes notes that the "point of inflection", so the part where Kanna turns her gameplay on as soon as she learns of Pink ball's suspicion is a very good point.

>Murder does the thing where he possibly overleans into pre-flips around here as a result of wanting to score as many points for finding the team as possible, i think this is more likely a thought he thinks to have as town rather than one he'd think to fake, like I think that's something you might not think about as scum

>Pooky around this time hasn't really done anything other than revel at others' desire to win the game, i guess. Now PB asks Pooky directly to respond to his case. he gives a lengthy soul type read explanation where is he certain she is not pocketing him and by extension town. I have questions to ask pooky surrounding the nature of this read but i am sure those will be asked if they havent already

>PrivateI thought there was scum in PB/SB, with the recent case he is inclined to swap to SB probably, mentions he would likely generally buy his case. Eh eh eh

>Pooky is 100% sure Kanna is town cause she wouldnt emotionally manipulate him. I asked about where he's being emotionally manipulated which was probably the wrong question, cause he followed up by saying he isnt, Kanna is being genuine

>Zaiden joins SB with ease

>I kid you not, Gypyx doesn't know who SB is. when the abbreviation is clarified, he says he has no read on them, maybe a slight scumlean. i am inclined to think Gypyx gives an opinion on her if they are scum mates

Pedit: So I'm tired, from Murder's post, the rest of the votes go Gamma -> Cheet -> midway -> Jingle -> MariaR

Somewhere around there, i think the elimination was inevitable so the votes and reads are less important. Maybe there is a point to make about how easy the wagon went thru, sure, scum did not attempt to fight it really. in my opinion if they had it would have been unnecessary troubles for them in the future since i think the Kanna wagon was being sent at that point. I would be wary about assuming scum joins because at least in my case voting isn't even AI, if i were scum i am just as likely to bother adding my vote as i am not. Competing wagons would make that kind of thing more interesting. i also say this because i think Cheet is town strongly and im thinking that way for mid and Jingle already


Noraa / Pinkball
Cheetory / Zaiden
midway / Jingle / Murdercatto
Gypyx
-
I think out of the rest, Gamma and PrivateI come off slightly better for Kanna forgetting they exist maybe, i generally need more before deciding on who is scum in the bottom half though, im never good at that. I feel pretty good about what i have so far, maybe i fucked up once but only in the bottom tiers

[Morning Tweet]

There is definitely some context left out, but this is going to make it much easier to go check them all.

But I am very confident scum bussed, no way that wagon goes through that easy (and without my vote even) otherwise.

I touched on this but i think roughly around the middle of the wagon the elimination was quite likely to happen and if it didnt then it was certainly a forever thing that several players would push i think. i dont see the incentive for scum to bus more than rand% of them already being on the wagon

but again nobody ever agrees with me on this so maybe i just undervalue the importance of votes. What makes scum more likely to essentially join a wagon that is going thru than not? It would do nothing for their looks and in my opinion it doesnt really mean anything at all, it's like executing an order

[Morning Tweet]

i got no peaches

I am confused at Nora's proposition of Pink Ball being scum as well as me. As far as I'm concerned, Pink Ball is my strongest townread who correctly read Spring Breeze as scum and SPF as town. I don't read Nora's defence of Spring Breeze leading up to the elimination as being alignment indicative because I could see Nora hard tunnelling people as obv town/obv scum because that just seems to be how they operate. But let's say if Nora is town here they were wrong about Spring Breeze and they're wrong about me being scum so I'm pretty sure they're just wrong about Pink Ball. That said, I suppose there's a reason why she's being insistent and I'll wait to hear. Although my team thinks it's extremely unlikely they did tell me a coordinated D1 scum bus happened in a previous Team Mafia game. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that Pink Ball is scum who bussed Spring Breeze.

Trackers typically don't track separate night actions just who visits or is visited right? In that scenario if scum believe there's a tracker in the game I think the proposition they would vend fruit to try to hide their kill on the same target makes sense. Especially if they have reason to believe there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches, it would be in their interest to prevent peaches from falling into the hands of town. But the counterpoint to that is scum could still kill their target and claim to have vended them fruit because their target wouldn't be alive to verify this anyway and it's not like tracker can ascertain the difference. And if there is a mechanical purpose behind peaches for scum too why wouldn't scum just vend peaches between themselves?

Finally, I reckon MariaR was attempting to create a wagon onto me halfway through D1 and it coincided with shifting people off an early Spring Breeze wagon. Then she goes from calling Spring Breeze obv town to hammering them. The connection here is pretty clear to me.

Vote: MariaR

i think that noraa's defense of SB due to the particular reasons she had that made her feel very sure was very towny. something that she thought was exclusive to town gave her great confidence in the read, aka the fruits. I dont think she would think to fake that

[Morning Tweet]

wow that was helpful you just told me that I could be town or scum.

you're more likely town, but not for what you advanced

I didn't give any reasons for anyone to TR me. I'm literally looking specifically for SRs on me.

i think this works better if you dont warn scum in advance

If you're thinking that people (PB?) are going to push you for the defense of SB, i think you'll find yourself very surprised

[Morning Tweet]

Mm i guess its important to understand how everyone's impression of the likelihood of the wagon going through was. I thought it was exceptionally likely but i think i may have been influenced by Jingle commenting about "not rushing to end the day so we can talk to someone". i think i probably thought it likely too early, but certainly around the 5-6th vote the rest of the votes were a formality. thats what im getting at.

I dont think it's more likely scum takes a particular approach over the other, at least in general, but by each player specifically perhaps. The reason i do this is because if i had voted SB, it doesnt mean anything for what i was thinking, maybe the only thing my not voting means is that i didnt have a desire to end the day immediately, but with regards to my read itself i think it was unimportant because scumreading or leaning SB was not a controversial topic at the time. the vote was just to kill

of course, if that isnt the impression you guys had im willing to accept im wrong, maybe there was more uncertainty regarding the elim than i got from it. I'm not contesting that there is scum in the wagon cause out of 10 players with me Murder and Noraa not on, then for sure yes

Actually something struck me as really strange. If scum wanted to bus, why bus their strongman? Surely it would make more sense to bus a goon or something?

That's what makes me think it probably isn't Pink Ball. And that scum only followed onto the bus once Pink Ball's case made Spring Breeze's elimination seem inevitable.

i agree that PB pulling SB into the spotlight is particularly unlikely as a distance move, not only is that a waste given the other wagons, but now PB is going to be watched for the rest of the game, and if he's scum, it will be odd after a while when he stops catching scum and never gets NKed. generally when someone plays confident like they've got to solve before dying on the first day, its been from town

[Morning Tweet]

of course, if that isnt the impression you guys had im willing to accept im wrong, maybe there was more uncertainty regarding the elim than i got from it. I'm not contesting that there is scum in the wagon cause out of 10 players with me Murder and Noraa not on, then for sure yes

WHAT AM I WRITING

I am trying to say that yeah given who wasn't on the wagon it is reasonable to expect scum on, but i would like to analyze each players motivation for voting individually if at all cause in general i dont think there was particular scum motivation to vote/not vote

[Morning Tweet]

I personally can't imagine being like "oh wow this person made some scummy posts but this person is MUCH scummier so that means that the former is probably more likely town". You don't have the flip of the second person in your hand so I would think it's more likely that you just scumread both.

It does seem like Private thought that PB/SB was some kind of scum/town interaction, so I think it makes sense?

Yeah although i suppose the question is why is there an arbitrary "1 scum in PB/SB" line being made, that which i would like to pose as a question to Private probably if he remembers

The other thing I want to hear about is why Pooky's soulread failed. how. how could it !?!? I dont really know if that makes sense as question but its on my mind

[Morning Tweet]

Gypyx, did you actually read my post? I dont have an opinion on everything that happened but in the post explain all of my reads save for maybe midway which is more of a general feel from earlier

i dont have an issue with being attacked for poor analysis or summarizing but that post is not just a recap of what happened, did you click on the spoiler?

i think some of the better points arent even related to the wagon itself because it was really open and shut for SB dying -- joining or not joining eehh was not so important. For example i think quoting every single vote post and trying to analyze that is a poor exercise, like what was being done for midway's vote a little ways back. I have said this repeatedly

instead though i think Kanna spews PB/Noraa/Zaiden/Cheet/Jingle most heavily as town from her reads thruout the day before the elimination. Murdercat played in a way i think youre less likely to come up with as scum, and i thought you had posts you wouldnt make as scum as well

Like throw out the play-by-play on the wagon if you dont want it, but i was also establishing some of my other reads and i dont actually think the majority of the wagon hop ons can be used

[Morning Tweet]

this is not so fun to read

I would go back and look at it further but i believe Kanna's chosen miselim was first Zaiden then Jingle, they were the most popular wagons for their own times and she spent most of her "scumread energy" on those two, like relative to everything else she says they are the closest to actual scumreads she had, everything else is flip floppy when you get to the lower end of her reads.

it is possible for multiple scum to get wagoned after each other i suppose but i feel like Kanna would be most comfortable putting her 1 and only actual 'scumread' on a town player that other ppl are doing the work for her on

[Morning Tweet]

wtf why would you hide your fucking reads there lol

gtg but i'll check this

pedit : that's @morning

what

my reads are at the bottom of the post

the spoiler is a tangent i went on analyzing kanna's reads which was IMO insightful cause it already lined up with a lot of the townreads i already had

Also so you didnt read it then ;-;

I spoiler stuff when i feel guilty im taking up too much space

[Morning Tweet]

clidd basically dropped a buch of meta on you then repped out, and according to iv he has a meta of being a very good townplayer, but disliking very much being scum

so like, idk, i feel like if he was town, even if life had him busy, he would at least try to solve?

I was actually a bit concerned about this because clidd is playing in a game right now.
I think saying Morning has not been solving is somewhat of a stretch.

hmmm maybe it's a stretch yes, but i still think it's under the level at which a green boi would do it

would you say the main point of your scumread on me stems from not doing enough? I guess i havent been terribly helpful, i hate playing mafia when i dont have the time to read all the posts and i start having to make educated guesses about some things rather than actually having been there

Like for example this SB wagon stuff, i was under the impression there was no competition whatsoever and no credit to be gained for joining it, and yet half the thread feels there is a significance to the votes and I do not know if i should oppose that or not

[Morning Tweet]

felt like the reads part was pretty marginal at the bottom

but the spoiler is considered as reads to me? and like yeah i have trouble focusing through reading a whole wall

really need to step away from MS ~1 hour or so lol

Well i listed the reads but you're right i didnt summarize them with the process i used to get there at the bottom, i guess it is my bad then. I myself have trouble reading walls and yet sometimes I run into the word limit myself

in any case i dont think you're being unfair, I agree that the wagon itself is not somewhere i think should be analyzed hard, but that span of the game was still useful to me

[Morning Tweet]

She's been fairly consistently doing that throughout her ISO, in fact. Sure, MT doesn't really make huge waves, but nothing she's done gives me any thoughts that she's trying to push the game in a proscum direction either. She's just been sitting there, solidly putting in the work and coming to decent conclusions while not really having much attention paid to her in comparison to the big flashy fights and cases. Unlike the lurker crew, though, she IS actively working to advance the gamestate.

i feel really appreciated by this idk if that was your intention but it feels really nice, i appreciate it

[Morning Tweet]

i didnt get any peaches if that was missed

murder's case is pretty towny for murder, and my dear teammate infinity says he sees his soul with his cake questioning. i can't comment about cakez though because i don't know him well. based on this game alone, i'd still say he was towny.

i think pooky is town again due to soulmeld but no good reason

i decently liked s_s when he got involved earlier

for pink ball, i do think i was biased with yesterday. i felt like he was really selective with my posting to put me in the worst possible light. gut says it feels unfair, but brain thinks it could be genuine if i think about it from his shoes. i don't know what else to say here, i am biased

i skimmed the rest of the thread and i'm generally, i'm feeling this

{murder, noraa}
{pooky, cheetory}
{gypyx, zaiden, s_s, sircakez, morning}
{pink ball, mariar, midway, spf} --- null
{jingle, private, jake,

gamma

}

feel free to ask me to elaborate on any of these

wow look at SB's iso and CTRL-F Gamma, there is 0 reasoning for this lol

i think that looks better for S_S, probably worse for gamma if she never mentions him

[Morning Tweet]

SPF's reads are basically consensus, I dont think analyzing her reads will be extra helpful beyond mayyybe if she had 1 or 2 players in the bottom half slightly lower than other people did? So something you could kill and get away with not being noticed - that i think is a stretch though

oh Shirou read thru my game the other night ! He is pretty happy with my townreads, Pink/Noraa/Cheet/Zaiden were his strongest. He liked most of Jingle's posts and midway's early posting. Murder/Pooky are above random town for him from behaviour towards SB wagon

his PoE is MariaR/Private/Gamma and maybe one of SS/Jake but not the both of them

He notes that he was excited with Cakes on scum!SS but the way ss acted around SB made him less interested there, and Cakes he had as a townlean but ended up less sure i think

also an extra thing for Noraa: Shirou says every game he's played with town!PB he suspected or caught a scum on the first day or two so this sequence of events doesnt surprise him, and he says you should definitely give him space

[Morning Tweet]

no one seems to find this objectionable

:neutral:

Point. Cheet also noticed that Jake has only been putting out content when under pressure.

Compared to Gamma/PI, though, Jake has been very under the radar with worse play. It's fascinating.

jake's baseline play is usually like this though

well skimming thru i guess it played a little bit so maybe you have a point, but also at the same time I find it hard to imagine Jake feels pressure. Like if he's scum, why does it care if its about to be eliminated or receiving scumreads or whatever. i guess it doesnt come off as very invested to me

[Morning Tweet]

just off of guessing i would go Gamma/Private as my first inclinations

Jake there isnt really any reason it isn't, i guess its very early game scumread on SPF pinged me weird at the time but i dont really think much of it anymore

i want to believe maria would be doing more as scum although obviously i dont buy into the "im out of my scumrange" argument, it is true that she hasn't had any impact on the game (for the most part, I guess Zaiden sort of counts but that preceded the SB wagon)

Pooky's actually in that same vein where he hasn't done jack other than have his one weird/different take being Kanna as hard town D1. kind of what im used to but just in lower quantity, i havent seen much of pooky really. His post count is way higher than i thought it was going to be, apparently i just missed a lot of the d1 spam

gypyx *i guess* i could be wrong but i think this is actually a significant step up from his scumplay in royalty if so really. This reminds me much more of his presence in the trials (town game)

[Morning Tweet]

My two favorite players posting back to back!

p-edit come one Cakez why you do this

wait me?!

hey wait, that was mean to cakes !

[Morning Tweet]

Oh Private and Gamma were both players that Kanna just like first omitted from her readslist then brought them on the next time with zero reasoning. Do you really do that both to scum partners - like does that even happen?

[Morning Tweet]

Also @Morning I think the people who have had impact on the game is...well not me and you for sure but that's because...look at the post counts the louder you are the more you're going to be seen noticed and heard even if most of it is a contentless void. Really we should be trying to make more of an impact but with a gamestate like this? Yeah gl
pedit: Not at all, you saw how my day started. Why would I be unhappy with a PI vote? Do I think PI is gonna get harder to Elim as the days go on? No. Do I think S_S is? Yes.

yeah well i dont have any disagreement wit h that. while i dont have as much time to play, i also don't care quite as much cause i dont think with the time i have i could reasonably have a greater chance of being right than a majority of other players

i can focus on some things and try to help but really being at the forefront of catching scum is not my thing in the first place

But for you though, i imagine you could if you wanted to and i want to believe that you probably could get your way if you wanted -- but i guess by the gamestate you mean like, PB and whoever else being emperor god king with a few disciples and a large amount of the playerlist being kind of hard to sort as a result since starting mid D1 there wasnt really as much need for arguments or counterwagons or anything like that.

[Morning Tweet]

you're right, not magnificent enough. ill have to think of a better one

[Morning Tweet]

Ooh this is exciting

[Morning Tweet]

Its a soft guilty and you said that yourself. Why should I do anything about it?
Fwiw I do think its kind of convenient that you watched SPF last night but I do believe the claim and will town bin you for now.

how exactly could the claim have been fabricated?

[Morning Tweet]

Am I like god emperor town, or am I awful just because I'm wrong on you? Or am I right?

(>ω<)

Its a soft guilty and you said that yourself. Why should I do anything about it?
Fwiw I do think its kind of convenient that you watched SPF last night but I do believe the claim and will town bin you for now.

how exactly could the claim have been fabricated?

well the scum know who they are gonna kill so uh that would be where the fabrication comes in???

and the other two players..?

By the way, Morning, do you confirm that you sent your fruit to SPF?

yeah this part -- I did, so it makes no sense to think that this is a fake claim

You could say scum sent both someone to kill SPF and watch it i guess but that would reveal PB to be scum automatically after our deaths so doesnt rlly make sense either

pedit: Oh dear this is an actual thing we're debating

[Morning Tweet]

LMFAO

[Morning Tweet]

(ﾉ∀`♥)

VOTE: Close Thread

[Morning Tweet]

PI's flipping scum

[Morning Tweet]

Thinking team mafia was going to be a total roll was probably a bit premature i guess.

i'm a compulsive vendor of "Dixie Red Peaches"

[Morning Tweet]

i'm a compulsive vendor of "Dixie Red Peaches"

Wasn't this Spring Breeze's fakeclaim?
I wonder if mafia got "unique" fakeclaims.

if SB claimed it then they're not unique

I gave to SPF cause i never really bothered to explain that townread over my others so i thought she was more likely to go under scum's radar. I obviously visited PB last night

[Morning Tweet]

we know Noraa

[Morning Tweet]

Maria is probably town after all for her SS fixation if i recall correctly along with her behaviour this game being so easy to attack. I guess maybe you could argue she's just openwolfing that hard, the only time i saw her do that was as town though

[Morning Tweet]

I lean MT but don't have a strong feeling about it
Noraa looks worse with the PB flip

uh no. PB said that I was town if Private flipped town.
Scum!me doesn't panic nor explain much yesterday in this situation cuz scum!me knows private gonna flip town, pb gonna back off and life gonna be good.

Also. I said vig should vig me if private flips scum due to associatives. That statement looks absolutely horrid given the private green flip and the situation that happened yesterday with pink ball. Scum!me has ZERO reason to make myself look that bad. It is one million percent TSTBS and anyone that doesnt see that is scum. Period. It is very clear that my play yesterday was absolutely game throwing as scum given the good position I was in.

You asking to be vigged if Private flips scum doesn't look bad to me. SS asking to not be vigged while the rest of the game thinks Private is flipping scum looks bad. But that's kind of obvious for me to see with hindsight i suppose

[Morning Tweet]

Cake is very very likely scum.
I would say out of MT and S_S, I favor S_S and think Morning is scum. As for why, the reasons are weak but I'll say them anyways. I feel like morning has this weird certainty but not like ... certain enough. Cuz if town, Morning should be like 200% sure S_S is scum cuz a town watcher literally confirmed all that stuff. Idk it just feels off the lack of certainty. But im sure if S_S is scum, they'll do something else thats even more scum indicative.

Um, there isn't any doubt as to whether SS is scum or not. There was a miniscule chance that PB and a scum buddy tag teamed SPF with a kill and a watch but even that is gone

There isn't really anything i need to do with regards to SS at this point and i think it's more likely than not i'll point out things that seem scummy to me but probably aren't scum indicative anyways

[Morning Tweet]

why do we ever rush this day?

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: SS

Do you guys think i am so incompetent at scum that i wouldn't realize that it's me and SS, or..? Why are you bringing up how certain i am or whether or not I am voting SS? Like that is exactly what you are implying

[Morning Tweet]

UT's mod error did have something to do with peach flavors being mixed up right?

the mod error has nothing to do with kanna claiming dixie red peach and mt supposedly being a dixie red peach vendor and not mentioning it at all lol.

Where did kanna claim this? Also I'd love to hear an explanation from morning because I am 99% sure everyone has their own peach flavor.

You want me to explain why Kanna claimed my peach? Or why i didnt say anything about it i guess. i didnt notice as it was posted, i dont really know. I didn't expect the peach varieties to be important

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: SS

Do you guys think i am so incompetent at scum that i wouldn't realize that it's me and SS, or..? Why are you bringing up how certain i am or whether or not I am voting SS? Like that is exactly what you are implying

i played with town!you in charas folly and you opened the last day with a massive wall case on krazy when it was 1v1 you/him right out the gates.

you knew it was 1v1 you/SS as soon as PrivateI flipped town - so you had days to prepare to open hard on SS.

instead your opening on SS is weak and passive if it even exists.

you're mad if you think this is anything like Chara's folly. I cried over that game multiple times -- that particular section of the game I knew i was about to die for the town loss but I knew i had to try and do something

Here I'm barely read up, mostly playing a catchup game and currently probably slightly less favoured to survive, but there's still a guaranteed scum elim. The fate of the game doesn't rest in the balance here

[Morning Tweet]

This is nothing like Chara's folly. I was emotional and eventually i fucked up that game by giving up too early i think. Worst got me frustrated since he smooth talked against my emotional play pretty well and it felt like nobody read my giga wall

Here it's like, i can lay out why SS is scum but it's somewhat disingenuous for me to do, like i shouldnt be the one selling you on him. I'd rather just spend whatever time i have getting to a PoE or at least expanding the town block a bit. Plus if I survive SS i get to be confirmed so may as well

but realistically even if i go first this is winning, I think the town block is strong and D1 points to at least 1-2 scum being lower influence which lines up with general consensus

[Morning Tweet]

I checked timestamps and Morning's last post that day was before SB claimed to be a dixie red peach vendor.
I will probably just believe that she didn't see that claim and was offline. The question now shifts towards whether we think the mod would provide a fakeclaim that overlaps with a town role. I think this is more like to happen if town fruit are not unique which doesn't seem to be the case (but I might be wrong).
I also think that if MT/SB are w/w. It's quite weird for them to fakeclaim the same role lol(but there could be WIFOM involved here)

i know that Kanna claimed regular fruit vendor but I thought that I had commented on it. I guess i did that the next day.

pedit: Maybe poor phrasing i guess. I already know the answer, and it wasnt what i was thinking before, i thought slightly above town then town after the watcher results. If you really prefer me to try and case SS i will

[Morning Tweet]

Thinking team mafia was going to be a total roll was probably a bit premature i guess.

i'm a compulsive vendor of "Dixie Red Peaches"

Targets?

SPF then PB..?

pedit yeah

[Morning Tweet]

Your expectations for me to suddenly be able to case SS because I know he's scum are very unrealistic. he has put it into words a lot better than I did -- i dont suddenly know why he's scum and i dont know if i can get enough motivation to create what is essentially a guesswork/forced case on him. If that makes you more likely to believe me then maybe but it really shouldnt at all

I believe as far as i got on SS was that Kanna's read on him could go either way or maybe slightly town since he was around 3rd in her suspicions

i am truly sorry i haven't been able to find the motivation when i do have time, this is still winning even if I die first too which doesnt help. Your Chara's Folly analogy doesnt work when there are hardly any stakes and i am not invested into the game

[Morning Tweet]

Scum having both a ninja and a strongman would surprise me combined with the watcher being gated. I don't think that is likely and if it is possible i dont think we can be blamed

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

Hi Pooky hi midway hi PB!

clidd isn't in the team discord so no headstart for me

hi Murderkitty!

First thing I notice is that she didn't say hi to me. I don't read into this too hard but it does look like a potential setup(as a scum buddy) for me if I really want to try to read into this

murder how sure are you on Noraa relative to how sure you were on D2 of Pooky v. FL

poking around. NAI but SL at best.

I believe I see why several players suspect Noraa early -- she hasn't done anything fun or happy in RVS and has just spectated throughout it while still posting mostly blank fluff on occasion. I assume that is why, because that is atypical for Noraa. something i would be wary of is how you're feeling will affect how you're posting drastically (for me, and I feel this is the same case for Noraa) much more than alignment would. maybe "I'm angry rn" is an excuse, but maybe not -- it happens to me all the time and then everybody yells about how i seem off and yayayaya

Murder, how much of Noraa's absentness (although not total absence, just watching with fluff 1 liners sometimes) factors into the present scumread?

It's interesting this post is actually defending me but at the same time, reading back on this, I am about 70% sure morning doesn't believe this truly. The reason why is because in PookyvFlava(I was scum btw for anyone that wasn't there), I started out with some bubbly posting but then fell back to normal posting sometime in the middle cuz I just wasn't really able to keep it up without getting shaded everywhere and I blamed it on a mood change. Which is not entirely inaccurate but I never explained that post game so I do think morning would call bullshit on it if town here.

I think if morning is scum, what I am seeing is this shift in thought process every now and then.
So she is poking the game out and trying to find easy targets and once she finds me, she starts asking people's opinions on me.
Then she realizes a lot of people SR me so maybe she could change stance, let them push me, and slightly defend.
Of course this is under the assumption that she's scum here but I am absolutely confbiasing regardless of her alignment here so take this with a grain of salt.

I'm into the Cheetory/Cakes/SPF-heavy area afterwards and im zoning out hard so im going to play live for a while probably

My conclusions though? I think midway is a good bet for town based on both his play and others reads of him. I have various small town leans on Cakes/Jingle/maybe PB so far but even those are partially based on my evalution of Gypyx/Noraa which has been fairly negative. I think Noraa is playing noticably differently and not really in a good way, she's maintained her hyper-posting identity and thats basically it, she seems really "abrasive" at times which is my best way of putting it. im not sold because emotions play a huge part but the last time i gave Noraa benefit of doubt for that, i was wrong. Murderkitty floated the idea of her intentionally playing this way to purposefully go off meta, which is potentially possible. i also did not like her follow up to PrivateI at all

@Pooky for more clarification, do you have an actual reason to townread Kanna or are you just saying that Kanna being scum would generally hurt you?

Ok so now she backs out of defending me with emotions and uses emotions against me. I'd say this is arguably a town point actually but its bad that it came after the defense. No, tbh I think the defense even existing is just a problem in itself.
This could be seen as being overly aware of a scum buddy. I could see that definitely.

Also in the spoiler(I deleted it because it was a pain in the ass to look at the long bb code. But she .... kind of TMI's private is town :/
Take a look lol

Poking through the game for easy targets to push is a terrible characterization of my scum play. i dont think i have ever tried to push an elim or a scumread decently as scum, it's rare as town but does happen when I feel >50% confident i have something or if i want to find a reaction

For you in particular I doubt I would do something that will piss you off but self meta and wifom yayaya

Also I am sorry i missed you in the hi post, don't know how that happens

[Morning Tweet]

This is the post we really need to dig into for MT-SB connections, it's basically the only place where MT discusses her read on SB

Waste of time, Cakes. Except for the song, that part is worthwhile

[Morning Tweet]

I think we're extrapolating too much of what the scum don't have based upon 1 PR flip.

Maybe. but from a design standpoint, imagine giving a mafia team a one-shot strongman and a one-shot ninja. How do you even know which to use? Do you just pick one randomly and pray? The purpose of giving mafia those powers is so they get a confirmed kill. if they had a ninja and a strongman, it seems clunky to me.

[Morning Tweet]

iirc S_S was much more eager to push SB
I don't think scum were very happy bussing day 1

Do you really believe that scum felt they could do anything to prevent the SB elimination after the case was dropped? or that there something that makes them hesitate to wait. That is the only universe where this would matter

[Morning Tweet]

hiiii SS

Why'd you vend to SPF?

[Morning Tweet]

I think the town base i gave back when i was reading was decent

ill whip something up right before my death if i feel up to but im unsure it will really be of any help. I dont really place a lot of value into my opinion on the lower half of the plist

i guess i dont feel much urgency overall though, so if you're waiting on me, definitely dont it's not worth it

[Morning Tweet]

( ･ω･)ﾉ

VOTE: Morning

[Morning Tweet]

Good game everyone

really impressive job from what I read during your time as last maf standing Zaiden

shoutout to Gypyx and cakes for sticking with the game as best they could from what I saw

and Jingle your evaluation of my townplay (in games in general) did genuinely make me happy so ty for that (*>ω<) ♡