Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Let's goooo. I'm here to get killed day 1 again and chew bubblegum.
And I'm all out of gum-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Until that happens
VOTE: DeltaWave
Because neuroscience gives me grad school flashbacks-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)In post 114, Gamma Emerald wrote:
VOTE: MargotRosaIn post 112, Gypyx wrote: VOTE: MargotRosa
Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return
VOTE: MargotRosa-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Not many reads yet. HT and Aliana feel towny. Upwards has the tryhard poat that feels nai from a newbie. Deltawave having no comment on my vote also feels a little scummy.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also, my posting'll be a little light for next couple days. At the country dance world championships atm. Will have more time after my wife competes.
So plz dont turbo me until then kthx
(Unless it's really funny)-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Poat = Typo for "post"
Nai = not alignment indicative. Meaning it doesn't say if you're town or scum either eay-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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*way. Phone posting worst posting-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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.. 114 in that quote Gamma called MR "not present". Commenting my voting a lurker while also being low post count isn't self-conscious, it's having a healthy appreciation for irony.In post 183, Gypyx wrote:
Why so self-concious about this, do you think you're being scummy when saying that?In post 116, Laplacian wrote:
I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)In post 114, Gamma Emerald wrote:
VOTE: MargotRosaIn post 112, Gypyx wrote: VOTE: MargotRosa
Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return
VOTE: MargotRosa
i guess Lucca already pointed it out so yea i agree
Also, 185 you put both me and Margot as scummy. I was 3rd on the vote train you started for them, hopping on within an hour. If we're both scum, why would I bus so quickly and give the vote momentum?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Not going to post exact division since I don't want to doxx us, but here's the livestream for the country world championshipsIn post 187, Claptastik wrote:
Post a link if you can.In post 120, Laplacian wrote: Will have more time after my wife competes.
https://www.twitch.tv/rgstreaming-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Agreed, especially on day 1. 2 person townblock happens trivially. 3 person, sure, easy enough. 4 on day 1 is forced. So scumpoints for Gamma.In post 212, Claptastik wrote:
Yes, and I find that approach - declaring a 4-person townblock in post 44 - to be highly suspicious.In post 211, Gamma Emerald wrote: You do realize I stated my approach to this game was a bit special, right?
Town blocks are great when they form organically, over time. I don't see town motivation for your approach. Seems more likely to be scum buddying.
That said, I don't think we have a townblock so much as gammawantinga townblock. If HT, Gypyx, and FuDuzn all hopped on Gamma's suggestion, then I'd be panicking and assuming 1+ were scum.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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@GammaEmerald
You've got your towncore posted, but any scumreads?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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*persuasion can come in the form of arguments, being the only valid slot when day is almost over, or if i get to hammer-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.In post 591, lucca261 wrote:
Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to meIn post 580, Upwards wrote:
What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.In post 576, lucca261 wrote: Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)
will re-read with more attention later, but for now
VOTE: Laplacian
Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset
What's your opinion on the post? @559
None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he gamebecause they're the most sus slots in the game. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.
VOTE: Lucca-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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We had like 20 pages of people, me included, phrasing your welding together as building a four player town block / towncore. Why did it take so long for you to clarify this?In post 584, Gamma Emerald wrote: You’re misunderstanding the meaning of what I did
I wasn’t just trying to join your pair, I was trying to take the pairs of me + gypyx and you + FD and weld them together-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Both y'all are voteworthy but I'm finally at a computer to deep dive. We'll see where it ends up once I'm done reading and checking votecountsIn post 606, lucca261 wrote:
So you're voting for me (a null read), instead of Gamma, who also voted for you and you were scumreading?In post 604, Laplacian wrote:
I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.In post 591, lucca261 wrote:
Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to meIn post 580, Upwards wrote:
What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.In post 576, lucca261 wrote: Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)
will re-read with more attention later, but for now
VOTE: Laplacian
Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset
What's your opinion on the post? @559
None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he gamebecause they're the most sus slots in the game. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.
VOTE: Lucca-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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From the opening post:In post 569, Upwards wrote:
Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?In post 562, Laplacian wrote:
Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else
Would like to hear your case here.
Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.In post 1, DragonEater70 wrote: Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.
And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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wtf? Source is I've been curbstomped in games before and just peaced out instead of learning. Isn't just a mafia rule, it's a good rule for all games. Do you want a notarized transcript of my friends trying to get me to league?In post 614, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Source???In post 612, Laplacian wrote: Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.
Hell, this is game design 101, make sure the first experience is good before people funnel out. It's the reason fortnite gives you an easy win vs bots when you first sign up. It's the reason every single mobile games tracks retention and tries to max the 1-week numbers.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I'm also gluttonous, which I've been informed is one of the top 7 sinsIn post 620, DeltaWave wrote: From what I can tell, Lap's big sin is that he gave a low-effort read list and then OMGUS'ed Lucca. Is that the case against him?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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The also have the same chance of being town as everyone else. I'll crunch numbers later, but I'm pretty sure ignoring a newbie for day 1 votes cancels out the oddsIn post 619, DeltaWave wrote:
Newbies have the same chance of being scum as everyone else. Unless the town no-elims, which is really rare on D1, someone has to go. There's no particular reason why newbies should have any additional protection. Just try to have fun with it.In post 612, Laplacian wrote: Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Agreed. Especially since he used that asinine "Source???" question to deflect from the direct question I asked.In post 623, Claptastik wrote:
That's a wasted vote. Vote gamma.In post 604, Laplacian wrote: I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.
None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he gamebecause they're the most sus slots in the game. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.
VOTE: Lucca
VOTE: Gamma-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Yes, Elo was for you and not gamma. Basically, I didn't like your dubious sacrifice analogy earlier. Askes Elo to see if it was just a surface comparison or a deliberately bad reframingIn post 653, Upwards wrote:
That question was for me was it not? I feel like there’s too much upset confusion and too little real logic going on atm.In post 642, Gamma Emerald wrote:
What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question aboutIn post 612, Laplacian wrote:
From the opening post:In post 569, Upwards wrote:
Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?In post 562, Laplacian wrote:
Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1In post 561, Gamma Emerald wrote:
your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.In post 559, Laplacian wrote: I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.
Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot
Will not vote HT, Gypyx
Can be persuaded on everyone else
Would like to hear your case here.
Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.In post 1, DragonEater70 wrote: Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.
And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?my chess ELO?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Rofl, 10/10 end to day 1-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Right now I'm rereading HuDuzn's posts, seeing who he was leaning towards. Looking for a reason why scum hit him.In post 772, lucca261 wrote: is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.
@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Mind elaborating how I benefit?In post 773, lucca261 wrote: I think Laplacian benefits from the flip overall
This post is very curious though-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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gg indeed
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Cool, I'll take it. I thought you were saying I was more sus since HuDuzn was scum leaning me in 144In post 780, lucca261 wrote: think you are more likely to be town
Also, I enjoyed the writing of the LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD post. Gonna go register that trademark-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also happy to hop on the upwards wagon in a bit, but want to hear his and the replacements thoughts first
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Laplacian he/theyGoon
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.
His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.
We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also, this is not fishing for claims, shut the fuck up about your role unless you have something actionable or your role is kaput-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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How tf does setup spec benefit mafia? They automatically know all mafia info from their role cards, could deduce a protective role from thier Jugg, and everything else is obvious as soon as N1 finished. This is not super secret info I just leaked, it's pointing out a framework we can extrapolate form when more roles either flip or claim later in the game.In post 842, lucca261 wrote:In post 795, Laplacian wrote:Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)
It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafiaIn post 796, Laplacian wrote: Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.
His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.
We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it
with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also quoting the same post, the "out-of-nowhere" is because I was reading FD's iso. Three people he was scumleaning were me, Alianna (now Enchant), and Clap (now MMRP). I don't think it's coincidence that 2 of the 3 sus reads of our dead tracker are both pushing me right out the gate.In post 842, lucca261 wrote:In post 795, Laplacian wrote:Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)
It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafiaIn post 796, Laplacian wrote: Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.
His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.
We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it
with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Seconding Upward here; I also want to know what this means. I think the question got passed over by MMRP's introduction and delightful gimmickIn post 815, Enchant wrote:As with my might power, i bless Hu Tao with conftown status.
HEAL: Hu Tao-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Shit, nvm, saw that HT answered a few posts down. Odd HT answered instead of Enchant though, when they posted after the question had been posed. More scumpoints to enchant-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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... yep, shit, that is more likely.In post 945, lucca261 wrote:
think about this lapIn post 915, Laplacian wrote:
Also quoting the same post, the "out-of-nowhere" is because I was reading FD's iso. Three people he was scumleaning were me, Alianna (now Enchant), and Clap (now MMRP). I don't think it's coincidence that 2 of the 3 sus reads of our dead tracker are both pushing me right out the gate.In post 842, lucca261 wrote:In post 795, Laplacian wrote:Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)
It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafiaIn post 796, Laplacian wrote: Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.
His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.
We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it
with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way
isn't more likely that if someone killed FD afraid of his reads it would been, you know... margot? the one he was voting for the whole D1? that we know was confirmed scum?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Mind explaining how I'm giving up?In post 935, Gypyx wrote: Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I definitely don't. Of the 3 replacements, MMRP is the one who has the most PASSIONATE effort-posts and ENTHUSIASTIC CAPS-FILLED communications.
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I'll take theatrics over lurking, and there's analysis once you get past the gimmick. 908 939 941 are all good-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Interesting, but I see how you got there. I was mostly waiting for more posts from the replacements, especially PoP, and am about half finished on a reads list as I go through some isos.
As for the setup speculation, I just really enjoy analyzing those. Game dev is fun.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Actually, since were talking about @MUCHO MAN RANDY PASSION
What do you think about Enchant's CHALLENGE to you? Do they just want a good fight, or are they a HEEL who needs to be taken down?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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jfc this took forever why did I look at every iso
Towny:
MMRP- Took the time to go through the game in detail, fun gimmick & vibes. Despite the theatrics, has good introspection and analysis. As I said earlier, 908, 939, and 941 are all good.
HT- Good vibes overall, flippant but tries to push the game along early with 101 and 108. Engages with a ton of people. 894, quickhammer play is a great trick. There's no definitive "this is 100% town" post here, just good vibes and moves, and so probably my softest town read.
Lucca- Logical approaches (863, 945), admits mistakes (769), asks some probing questions. I like how they caution the newbie in (222) and try to engage with them a bit more. Early case on Margot, and good interactions with FD and Clap. Chad rebuttal in 375 cinches townie for me.
Naerys- haha vigi go bang
The Neutral Zone:
ZBD/PoP- ZBD's posts felt cautious, with posts like 403 being more observations over reads and the popping off the GE wagon. However, PoP's 963 matches my feelings & observations really well. Thus, annoyingly still null.
Gypyx- Day 1 is good overall; a casual tone that leads into more probing questions. Starting a solid wagon on Margot D1 completely unprompted seems towny with Margot's flip. However, it's a weird how she flip-flops on Upward's 91, from immediately giving advice in 92 to calling him "fabricated" (185) and not genuine (199). While I agree with those reads, it's an odd change. She's also cast many aspersions on me, making up motivations whole-cloth. Could be scum pushing me, could be a total vibe mismatch. Either way, enough ambiguity for me to leave her in neutral.
Scummy:
Upwards- Basically the same thoughts as everyone else. Overwrought intro in 91, bad chess metaphor & analysis in 333 and 356 that are incongruous with the otherwise logical approach. Oddly defensive in 931 after a mediocre ToS style post. Some good posts though; I like 238 and 361. After this reread, my softest scumread and some of this seems like common ESL tone issues. But it's not day 1 anymore so they're free for the voting!
Enchant- Enchant's votes come with no real reads (792, 944). FuDuzn was suspicious of Alianna, calling them "trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake" (131). Most egregious, I can't see any world where town posts a large-font, bolded, "Silence" instead of encouraging communication (918).
Deltawave- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with thisIn post 971, Hu Tao wrote: I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward
VOTE: DeltaWave-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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True, and a really weird vote. I can absolutely see scum parking the vote on a townie before leaving, and then another scum pushing towards that wagon for a free vote. As far as I'm concerned, I've made the wagons I'll jump on abundantly clearIn post 979, Prince of Paterson wrote: Enchant was also on Gamma.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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I'm sitting at 0 votes and you've been calling me town all day (823, 922). Not seeing much heat.In post 980, DeltaWave wrote:
I'm not sure there could be any more obvious way to try to divert attention off yourself given the heat you've been getting today.In post 978, Laplacian wrote:
Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with thisIn post 971, Hu Tao wrote: I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward
VOTE: DeltaWave-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Checked your profile, I'll cop to the post count misanalysis. My bad. As far as I can tell, PoP calling you "uninformed" was a town read - maf is informed, town is not. For 619, the math of hitting scum is the same even if you completely ignore a slot.In post 988, DeltaWave wrote:
This annoys me so much because I think you're town but you're making an absolutely ridiculous argument here. I'm not sure what you mean by "knowledge / phrasing gaps" but relying on my post count is ridiculous. Most of my posts are probably in non-mafia discussions. This is my 2nd mafia game in about 7 years I think. Go count up how many games I've done, it's probably less than 15. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this.In post 977, Laplacian wrote:Deltawave- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.
I do feel townier on you after that reaction though; felt genuine.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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This also feels valid. Can totally see frustration at a newbie trying to get their points understood, I've felt that too.In post 986, Prince of Paterson wrote: The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.
Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.
2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.
Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.
The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.
I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.
I seem to be having the trouble of day 1 thinking everyone was scum, and now being persuaded that everyone's town-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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In fact, now that there's some decent points against 2 of my scumreads, let's go back to my plan A.
VOTE: Enchant-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Check out 264In post 994, Mucho Man Randy Passion wrote:
Scumreads on Enchant and Delta seem like stretches to me - could you explain what you mean by Delta "misreading" you and Luchador?
With Lucca, she misreads the now-infamous 91, missing that Upward actually read the game, not just heard of it. This is the entire basis on the Lucca vote
For the misread on me, it's less definitive, and maybe this is just me being a massive nerd, but I'll always take an opening to talk about my nerdy interests. If I joke about neuroscience giving grad school flashbacks, that implies that I've studied it and clearly liked it enough to do research. I've already brought up game design twice in this thread because I love it, and if someone else brings it up I'm'a immediately chat with them about it. Or asks what a laplacian is I'll drop a math ramble. I tried to give an opening for a nerdy discussion, and it weirdly got parsed as "he didn't like neuroscience". To me, that's a very strange interpretation of my words.
If there was just one misread, sure, whatever. But when a read list has 2 misreads, that speaks to skimming for justifications over having opinions. I retract my point about her postcount, but 264 still radiates bad vibes.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Hmmm. I think I was maybe a little too lenient on Gypyx because everyone else seems to TR them. Not hard scum, but a solid orange on my list. Thanks for encouraging some PASSIONATE INTROSPECTION!In post 995, Mucho Man Randy Passion wrote: Laplacian, did you make any of your reads out of FEAR of being HAMMERED DOWN for standing out? If so, which ones? How would they be different if you were not worried about The People's Elbow?
PoP is moving townier as they post more too. I like 1020 and point #2 of 986.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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In post 1020, Prince of Paterson wrote: I don't think Enchant is always unreadable. Their current behavior is more likely to be scum.
Reading Enchant's iso in some other games, the terseness and tiny posts seems normal. TheIn post 1021, DeltaWave wrote: Have you played with Enchant before?boldand writing style seems new-
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If you insist.In post 1012, Upwards wrote:Pressure, yes…
May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though.You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.
The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about.
VOTE: Upwards
E-1. You talk about answering questions about day 1 and day 2. How about night 1? Got a claim?-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Noooo. Damn you Vince McMahon! Damn you to hell!
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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There's also thisIn post 1046, Prince of Paterson wrote:In post 1043, DeltaWave wrote:
Wtf are you talking about. I was the E-1 vote. How was I hesitant?In post 1032, Prince of Paterson wrote: Why are you declaring intent to hammer with a week left in the day phase when you were hesitant to have Gamma on E-1 at the end of the previous day?
My reference was to this:
It's a markedly different mentality and I was wondering what was the cause for the difference.In post 455, DeltaWave wrote: VOTE: Gamma, but I would unvote if Gamma got to E-1. I still want to get more information out of Alianna's replacement and to get some more activity in general going from people who are lower in the post counts. I'd also like Zeb to explain his vote, which seemed to come out of nowhere, and which made me think some things that I'll share after he explains.
More evidence for a different mentality. Moving from a cautious day 1, wanting to take things slow and get get alll the info, to full-on HAMMERTIME is a big switch.In post 332, DeltaWave wrote: We have a whole week left for the day. Going into night when we have like, four or five people who haven't really contributed is not pro-town.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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In post 1064, Gypyx wrote: yup, exactly what Naerys said, i don't see how that day 1 happens without at least 1 scum on Gamma
Agreed with both 1+ scum on Gamma and Enchant first.In post 1065, Naerys wrote: Also Alianna slot can be either LHF or scum. I dont mind sorting Alianna first, but then we should look at Upwards.
I think Enchant/Alianna slot has to be the flip today because of how weird the vote was. Since Alianna vanished after voting and had no replacement until D2, it effectively meant Gamma required one less vote.
If Enchant is scum, we find the other scum on the wagon as well. My logic is that scum could hop on that wagon knowing Alianna's vote was safe for them. Alianna's vote wouldn't be moved without checking into scumchat first, making it a very easy wagon for Scum to support. Margot stayed off in order to gain some towncred as has been called out earlier
If Enchant is town though, I think it's one on, one off since the wagon wasn't as secure for scum.-
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First, this is a social, hidden-information, 13 player, asymmetric game. A comparison to an entirely mechanical, open-information, 2 player, symmetric game will always be flawed.In post 1053, Upwards wrote: Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?
Second, dubious sacrifice generally implies that the sacrifice is bad; if it was good you'd call it a sound sacrifice. However, sacrificing a scum buddy can definitely pay off if you get enough hard allies. Since the game is social, a bluff is way more powerful here than in chess where you can rigorously analyze some lines to check if a sacrifice actually pays off. If I had to make a chess comparison, hardbussing a scum buddy for clout early would be the Halloween Gambit - where you sac a knight move 4 for crazy strategic presence unless the opponents play perfectly.
And I'm about 1500. Not amazing by any means, but enough that the chess comparison pinged me.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology clubIn post 1078, Enchant wrote:
There's letters in these words.-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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Also, I didn't vote earlier because I thought Enchant had more votes than they actually do and distracted by video games instead of checking.
VOTE: Enchant-
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Laplacian he/theyGoonhe/they
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