Mini Normal 2324: Fake Fantasy Facts | Postgame

[Laplacian]

Let's goooo. I'm here to get killed day 1 again and chew bubblegum.

And I'm all out of gum

[Laplacian]

Until that happens
VOTE: DeltaWave
Because neuroscience gives me grad school flashbacks

[Laplacian]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa
I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)
VOTE: MargotRosa

[Laplacian]

Not many reads yet. HT and Aliana feel towny. Upwards has the tryhard poat that feels nai from a newbie. Deltawave having no comment on my vote also feels a little scummy.

[Laplacian]

Also, my posting'll be a little light for next couple days. At the country dance world championships atm. Will have more time after my wife competes.

So plz dont turbo me until then kthx
(Unless it's really funny)

[Laplacian]

Poat = Typo for "post"
Nai = not alignment indicative. Meaning it doesn't say if you're town or scum either eay

[Laplacian]

*way. Phone posting worst posting

[Laplacian]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Anyways wanna vote a slot that's been weirdly shy about things?

VOTE: MargotRosa

I somewhat agree with this idea. I think she’s just been not present but wouldn’t mind leaving her a little present on her return

I'm down with this vote (despite only having 2 posts myself)
VOTE: MargotRosa

Why so self-concious about this, do you think you're being scummy when saying that?

i guess Lucca already pointed it out so yea i agree

.. 114 in that quote Gamma called MR "not present". Commenting my voting a lurker while also being low post count isn't self-conscious, it's having a healthy appreciation for irony.

Also, 185 you put both me and Margot as scummy. I was 3rd on the vote train you started for them, hopping on within an hour. If we're both scum, why would I bus so quickly and give the vote momentum?

[Laplacian]

Will have more time after my wife competes.

Post a link if you can.

Not going to post exact division since I don't want to doxx us, but here's the livestream for the country world championships
https://www.twitch.tv/rgstreaming

[Laplacian]

You do realize I stated my approach to this game was a bit special, right?

Yes, and I find that approach - declaring a 4-person townblock in post 44 - to be highly suspicious.

Town blocks are great when they form organically, over time. I don't see town motivation for your approach. Seems more likely to be scum buddying.

Agreed, especially on day 1. 2 person townblock happens trivially. 3 person, sure, easy enough. 4 on day 1 is forced. So scumpoints for Gamma.

That said, I don't think we have a townblock so much as gamma

wanting

a townblock. If HT, Gypyx, and FuDuzn all hopped on Gamma's suggestion, then I'd be panicking and assuming 1+ were scum.

[Laplacian]

@GammaEmerald
You've got your towncore posted, but any scumreads?

[Laplacian]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

[Laplacian]

*persuasion can come in the form of arguments, being the only valid slot when day is almost over, or if i get to hammer

[Laplacian]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

[Laplacian]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.

None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he game

because they're the most sus slots in the game

. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.

VOTE: Lucca

[Laplacian]

You’re misunderstanding the meaning of what I did
I wasn’t just trying to join your pair, I was trying to take the pairs of me + gypyx and you + FD and weld them together

We had like 20 pages of people, me included, phrasing your welding together as building a four player town block / towncore. Why did it take so long for you to clarify this?

[Laplacian]

Honestly I've been lurking on the thread a couple of times and it seems nothing actually happened those two past days (a lot of the posts are the Clap - Gamma argument that kinda bored me)

will re-read with more attention later, but for now

VOTE: Laplacian

What’s that vote for Lucca? From what I’ve seen you’ve disliked his early posting but never really explained why. Whereas you had explained why you disliked mine.

Also there did happen something with the Delta/Hu Tao situation around Gammas potential E-1, even if for some reason I seem to be the only player finding that noteworthy at all. Any thoughts on that perhaps?

Because his catch-up post is the most generic, 'go with the flow' readslist I have ever seen. I also don't really get the Hu Tao townread from him. It seems like a fake read to me
Saying he's "open to vote" the three most suspected slots on the game while scumreading the fourth most suspected slot and applying no pressure? It's not a town mindset

What's your opinion on the post? @559

I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.

None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he game

because they're the most sus slots in the game

. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.

VOTE: Lucca

So you're voting for me (a null read), instead of Gamma, who also voted for you and you were scumreading?

Both y'all are voteworthy but I'm finally at a computer to deep dive. We'll see where it ends up once I'm done reading and checking votecounts

[Laplacian]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

[Laplacian]

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

Source???

wtf? Source is I've been curbstomped in games before and just peaced out instead of learning. Isn't just a mafia rule, it's a good rule for all games. Do you want a notarized transcript of my friends trying to get me to league?

Hell, this is game design 101, make sure the first experience is good before people funnel out. It's the reason fortnite gives you an easy win vs bots when you first sign up. It's the reason every single mobile games tracks retention and tries to max the 1-week numbers.

[Laplacian]

From what I can tell, Lap's big sin is that he gave a low-effort read list and then OMGUS'ed Lucca. Is that the case against him?

I'm also gluttonous, which I've been informed is one of the top 7 sins

[Laplacian]

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

Newbies have the same chance of being scum as everyone else. Unless the town no-elims, which is really rare on D1, someone has to go. There's no particular reason why newbies should have any additional protection. Just try to have fun with it.

The also have the same chance of being town as everyone else. I'll crunch numbers later, but I'm pretty sure ignoring a newbie for day 1 votes cancels out the odds

[Laplacian]

I said I hadn't had time to do a deep dive, which I thought was clear by "vaguely keeping up" in the post you don't even bother to quote so that is hidden.

None of these are new to my list btw. I was prodding gamma earlier about the towncore, clearly had suspicions of both delta and upward, and hopped on the margot train early when it started. No shit I'm down to vote the most sus slots int he game

because they're the most sus slots in the game

. I had null read on you earlier, but now I see why people put you in their scumpool.

VOTE: Lucca

That's a wasted vote. Vote gamma.

Agreed. Especially since he used that asinine "Source???" question to deflect from the direct question I asked.

VOTE: Gamma

[Laplacian]

I live! Event over, wife won a silver and a gold in her divisions. Been vaguely keeping up, will effortpost later when at a computer and not phone posting from an uber.

Until then, happy to vote Gamma, Delta, Margot

Will not vote HT, Gypyx

Can be persuaded on everyone else

your limpool is gross, it’s basically every viable vote at this moment.

Upward would be on there too, but I really dont want to lim a newbie day 1

Now that’s just silly isn’t it? While I’d appreciate it to get to play more, I think you must naturally consider voting me if I really appear suspicious to you. Or is there something other than pity behind that thought process?

Would like to hear your case here.

From the opening post:

Have fun - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

Getting nuked day 1 as a newbie sucks and it's a good way to have people not stick around and play more. If you're above that, cool, more power to you, but I generally make it a policy to not vote them day 1 without egregious circumstances.

And this is a genuine question, not idle curiosity. You dropped some chess references earlier. What is your Elo rating?

What??? Are you seriously upset I overlooked your question about

my chess ELO

?

That question was for me was it not? I feel like there’s too much upset confusion and too little real logic going on atm.

Yes, Elo was for you and not gamma. Basically, I didn't like your dubious sacrifice analogy earlier. Askes Elo to see if it was just a surface comparison or a deliberately bad reframing

[Laplacian]

Rofl, 10/10 end to day 1

[Laplacian]

@373

is pretty interesting with the flip, at least.

@Upwards and @Laplacian, did you guys get the time to have a re-read and collect your thoughts during the night? Kinda interested to hear both of your guys opinion, given the complete reevalution of some of my reads.

Right now I'm rereading HuDuzn's posts, seeing who he was leaning towards. Looking for a reason why scum hit him.

[Laplacian]

I think Laplacian benefits from the flip overall

This post is very curious though

Mind elaborating how I benefit?

[Laplacian]

GG
I am 1shot vigilant and i shot a scum

gg indeed

[Laplacian]

think you are more likely to be town

Cool, I'll take it. I thought you were saying I was more sus since HuDuzn was scum leaning me in 144

Also, I enjoyed the writing of the LAPLACIAN DEFENSE SQUAD post. Gonna go register that trademark

[Laplacian]

VOTE: Upwards

down to do upwards too yeah, this mafia stuff is easy

Also happy to hop on the upwards wagon in a bit, but want to hear his and the replacements thoughts first

[Laplacian]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

[Laplacian]

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

[Laplacian]

Also, this is not fishing for claims, shut the fuck up about your role unless you have something actionable or your role is kaput

[Laplacian]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafia
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it

with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way

How tf does setup spec benefit mafia? They automatically know all mafia info from their role cards, could deduce a protective role from thier Jugg, and everything else is obvious as soon as N1 finished. This is not super secret info I just leaked, it's pointing out a framework we can extrapolate form when more roles either flip or claim later in the game.

[Laplacian]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafia
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it

with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way

Also quoting the same post, the "out-of-nowhere" is because I was reading FD's iso. Three people he was scumleaning were me, Alianna (now Enchant), and Clap (now MMRP). I don't think it's coincidence that 2 of the 3 sus reads of our dead tracker are both pushing me right out the gate.

[Laplacian]

As with my might power, i bless Hu Tao with conftown status.

HEAL: Hu Tao

Seconding Upward here; I also want to know what this means. I think the question got passed over by MMRP's introduction and delightful gimmick

[Laplacian]

Shit, nvm, saw that HT answered a few posts down. Odd HT answered instead of Enchant though, when they posted after the question had been posed. More scumpoints to enchant

[Laplacian]

My opinion is pretty clear.

VOTE: Laplacian

Great first impression, especially when you replaced into a slot that HuDuzn had suspicions of. (127, 142)

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

It's the second time Lap answered a vote with a out-of-nowhere super defensive OMGUS that makes zero sense and them they immediately follow it with a setup speculation that could only benefit mafia
then on the next post he gets pre-emptively defensive about it

with all due respect Lap this is so incredibly scummy that I could only see it coming from town in a weird way

Also quoting the same post, the "out-of-nowhere" is because I was reading FD's iso. Three people he was scumleaning were me, Alianna (now Enchant), and Clap (now MMRP). I don't think it's coincidence that 2 of the 3 sus reads of our dead tracker are both pushing me right out the gate.

think about this lap

isn't more likely that if someone killed FD afraid of his reads it would been, you know... margot? the one he was voting for the whole D1? that we know was confirmed scum?

... yep, shit, that is more likely.

[Laplacian]

Hey Lucca you still wanna vote out Upwards or like, what are we doing, strongly considering making a switch onto lapla, especially given how he kind of looks like he's giving up? That fits the mental trajectory i would expect from a scumteam who's in the rough of things

Mind explaining how I'm giving up?

[Laplacian]

VOTE: Mucho Man

I smell cowardice behind boast.

Do you really think today is the day we do such a wagon?

I definitely don't. Of the 3 replacements, MMRP is the one who has the most PASSIONATE effort-posts and ENTHUSIASTIC CAPS-FILLED communications.

[Laplacian]

I'll take theatrics over lurking, and there's analysis once you get past the gimmick. 908 939 941 are all good

[Laplacian]

Interesting, but I see how you got there. I was mostly waiting for more posts from the replacements, especially PoP, and am about half finished on a reads list as I go through some isos.

As for the setup speculation, I just really enjoy analyzing those. Game dev is fun.

[Laplacian]

Actually, since were talking about @MUCHO MAN RANDY PASSION
What do you think about Enchant's CHALLENGE to you? Do they just want a good fight, or are they a HEEL who needs to be taken down?

[Laplacian]

jfc this took forever why did I look at every iso

Towny:

MMRP

- Took the time to go through the game in detail, fun gimmick & vibes. Despite the theatrics, has good introspection and analysis. As I said earlier, 908, 939, and 941 are all good.

HT

- Good vibes overall, flippant but tries to push the game along early with 101 and 108. Engages with a ton of people. 894, quickhammer play is a great trick. There's no definitive "this is 100% town" post here, just good vibes and moves, and so probably my softest town read.

Lucca

- Logical approaches (863, 945), admits mistakes (769), asks some probing questions. I like how they caution the newbie in (222) and try to engage with them a bit more. Early case on Margot, and good interactions with FD and Clap. Chad rebuttal in 375 cinches townie for me.

Naerys

- haha vigi go bang

The Neutral Zone:

ZBD/PoP

- ZBD's posts felt cautious, with posts like 403 being more observations over reads and the popping off the GE wagon. However, PoP's 963 matches my feelings & observations really well. Thus, annoyingly still null.

Gypyx

- Day 1 is good overall; a casual tone that leads into more probing questions. Starting a solid wagon on Margot D1 completely unprompted seems towny with Margot's flip. However, it's a weird how she flip-flops on Upward's 91, from immediately giving advice in 92 to calling him "fabricated" (185) and not genuine (199). While I agree with those reads, it's an odd change. She's also cast many aspersions on me, making up motivations whole-cloth. Could be scum pushing me, could be a total vibe mismatch. Either way, enough ambiguity for me to leave her in neutral.

Scummy:

Upwards

- Basically the same thoughts as everyone else. Overwrought intro in 91, bad chess metaphor & analysis in 333 and 356 that are incongruous with the otherwise logical approach. Oddly defensive in 931 after a mediocre ToS style post. Some good posts though; I like 238 and 361. After this reread, my softest scumread and some of this seems like common ESL tone issues. But it's not day 1 anymore so they're free for the voting!

Enchant

- Enchant's votes come with no real reads (792, 944). FuDuzn was suspicious of Alianna, calling them "trying to seem genuine, yet somehow seem fake" (131). Most egregious, I can't see any world where town posts a large-font, bolded, "Silence" instead of encouraging communication (918).

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

[Laplacian]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with this
VOTE: DeltaWave

[Laplacian]

Enchant was also on Gamma.

True, and a really weird vote. I can absolutely see scum parking the vote on a townie before leaving, and then another scum pushing towards that wagon for a free vote. As far as I'm concerned, I've made the wagons I'll jump on abundantly clear

[Laplacian]

I think we should find the scum that was on gamma. So I think we vote delta or upward

Was going to vote enchant after my list, but equally fine with this
VOTE: DeltaWave

I'm not sure there could be any more obvious way to try to divert attention off yourself given the heat you've been getting today.

I'm sitting at 0 votes and you've been calling me town all day (823, 922). Not seeing much heat.

[Laplacian]

Deltawave

- Some strange knowledge / phrasing gaps for having 3k posts (55, 968, and especially 619). 264 is a really bad list, misreading both me and Lucca (with a vote based on said misread!) implies that they're trying to manufacture reasons instead of find them. Pushes to prolong the day when Margot is the lead vote candidate (332), giving time for the wagon to switch to GE.

This annoys me so much because I think you're town but you're making an absolutely ridiculous argument here. I'm not sure what you mean by "knowledge / phrasing gaps" but relying on my post count is ridiculous. Most of my posts are probably in non-mafia discussions. This is my 2nd mafia game in about 7 years I think. Go count up how many games I've done, it's probably less than 15. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this.

Checked your profile, I'll cop to the post count misanalysis. My bad. As far as I can tell, PoP calling you "uninformed" was a town read - maf is informed, town is not. For 619, the math of hitting scum is the same even if you completely ignore a slot.

I do feel townier on you after that reaction though; felt genuine.

[Laplacian]

The way that Upwards is forming his reads and finding things to talk about reads far more like new town player struggling to find his footing in the game than new scum player trying to blend in or manufacture stances.

Some examples that stand out to me:
1) The focus on the situation surrounding Gamma nearing E-1 (Delta said she'd unvote if E-1, and Hu Tao said they'd hammer if E-1). He made several posts about this (462, 464, 466, 484, 532, 539, and there's a clear tone of frustration that nobody else finds this as compelling as he does. I don't think that tends to come from mafia. He wants people to listen to him because he thinks he's found something interesting.

2) Similarly, a bit earlier, his engagement with Gamma in 306, 333, and 356. Again, his point is a little off the wall, bringing up how it doesn't make sense to him that Gamma could see it beneficial to die early as scum. And again, there's some frustration at not having his point understood.

Together, these aren't how scum, particularly new scum, approach the game. The points are proactively made, show original and unique thought, and there's a distinct lack of self-consciousness: when faced with others disagreeing with or not understanding his point, he doubles down to try to make it understood, because it's something that he genuinely feels and is interested in, and he's frustrated that it isn't gaining traction. New scum are much more likely to fold on a point or follow the lead of others.

The best point for Upwards being scum is that Margot's read on him in 373 is awkwardly defensive while still having him at the bottom of her null reads. I agree that is a read that sounds partnered.

I don't think that lucca's point about Upwards' vote being the one to turn Gamma into a real counterwagon to Margot is very meaningful. It was page 12, there was always going to be another wagon that happened at some point. Being the 3rd vote on Gamma doesn't make him significantly more likely to be scum. Nor does lack of talking about Margot. Scum are aware that they partner is being run up and are self-conscious about how they appear in relation to it. If you want a better example of what that may look like, read Claptastik's ISO.

This also feels valid. Can totally see frustration at a newbie trying to get their points understood, I've felt that too.

I seem to be having the trouble of day 1 thinking everyone was scum, and now being persuaded that everyone's town

[Laplacian]

In fact, now that there's some decent points against 2 of my scumreads, let's go back to my plan A.

VOTE: Enchant

[Laplacian]

Scumreads on Enchant and Delta seem like stretches to me - could you explain what you mean by Delta "misreading" you and Luchador?

Check out 264
With Lucca, she misreads the now-infamous 91, missing that Upward actually read the game, not just heard of it. This is the entire basis on the Lucca vote

For the misread on me, it's less definitive, and maybe this is just me being a massive nerd, but I'll always take an opening to talk about my nerdy interests. If I joke about neuroscience giving grad school flashbacks, that implies that I've studied it and clearly liked it enough to do research. I've already brought up game design twice in this thread because I love it, and if someone else brings it up I'm'a immediately chat with them about it. Or asks what a laplacian is I'll drop a math ramble. I tried to give an opening for a nerdy discussion, and it weirdly got parsed as "he didn't like neuroscience". To me, that's a very strange interpretation of my words.

If there was just one misread, sure, whatever. But when a read list has 2 misreads, that speaks to skimming for justifications over having opinions. I retract my point about her postcount, but 264 still radiates bad vibes.

[Laplacian]

Laplacian, did you make any of your reads out of FEAR of being HAMMERED DOWN for standing out? If so, which ones? How would they be different if you were not worried about The People's Elbow?

Hmmm. I think I was maybe a little too lenient on Gypyx because everyone else seems to TR them. Not hard scum, but a solid orange on my list. Thanks for encouraging some PASSIONATE INTROSPECTION!

PoP is moving townier as they post more too. I like 1020 and point #2 of 986.

[Laplacian]

I don't think Enchant is always unreadable. Their current behavior is more likely to be scum.

Have you played with Enchant before?

Reading Enchant's iso in some other games, the terseness and tiny posts seems normal. The

bold

and writing style seems new

[Laplacian]

VOTE: Upwards
meanwhile putting pressure on this slot

Pressure, yes…

May I ask what this pressure is supposed to amount to? I’m happy to respond to any actual questions or arguments about what I may or may not have done d1 ( and d2, for that matter ). That’s the case for however many votes there are on me though.

You can all unvote me right now or put me at E-1

and nothing changes in that regard as far as I’m concerned.

The only issue I have with this wagon right now is that there’s nothing new to talk about.

If you insist.
VOTE: Upwards

E-1. You talk about answering questions about day 1 and day 2. How about night 1? Got a claim?

[Laplacian]

Replacing Macho Man Randy Passion.

Noooo. Damn you Vince McMahon! Damn you to hell!

[Laplacian]

Why are you declaring intent to hammer with a week left in the day phase when you were hesitant to have Gamma on E-1 at the end of the previous day?

Wtf are you talking about. I was the E-1 vote. How was I hesitant?

My reference was to this:

VOTE: Gamma, but I would unvote if Gamma got to E-1. I still want to get more information out of Alianna's replacement and to get some more activity in general going from people who are lower in the post counts. I'd also like Zeb to explain his vote, which seemed to come out of nowhere, and which made me think some things that I'll share after he explains.

It's a markedly different mentality and I was wondering what was the cause for the difference.

There's also this

We have a whole week left for the day. Going into night when we have like, four or five people who haven't really contributed is not pro-town.

More evidence for a different mentality. Moving from a cautious day 1, wanting to take things slow and get get alll the info, to full-on HAMMERTIME is a big switch.

[Laplacian]

yup, exactly what Naerys said, i don't see how that day 1 happens without at least 1 scum on Gamma

Also Alianna slot can be either LHF or scum. I dont mind sorting Alianna first, but then we should look at Upwards.

Agreed with both 1+ scum on Gamma and Enchant first.

I think Enchant/Alianna slot has to be the flip today because of how weird the vote was. Since Alianna vanished after voting and had no replacement until D2, it effectively meant Gamma required one less vote.

If Enchant is scum, we find the other scum on the wagon as well. My logic is that scum could hop on that wagon knowing Alianna's vote was safe for them. Alianna's vote wouldn't be moved without checking into scumchat first, making it a very easy wagon for Scum to support. Margot stayed off in order to gain some towncred as has been called out earlier

If Enchant is town though, I think it's one on, one off since the wagon wasn't as secure for scum.

[Laplacian]

Btw, Laplacian, I meant to ask you something that I got sidetracked from: What’s wrong with my chess metaphor that you criticized in 657 and 977? And for that matter, what’s your chess Elo that you can make that judgement?

First, this is a social, hidden-information, 13 player, asymmetric game. A comparison to an entirely mechanical, open-information, 2 player, symmetric game will always be flawed.

Second, dubious sacrifice generally implies that the sacrifice is bad; if it was good you'd call it a sound sacrifice. However, sacrificing a scum buddy can definitely pay off if you get enough hard allies. Since the game is social, a bluff is way more powerful here than in chess where you can rigorously analyze some lines to check if a sacrifice actually pays off. If I had to make a chess comparison, hardbussing a scum buddy for clout early would be the Halloween Gambit - where you sac a knight move 4 for crazy strategic presence unless the opponents play perfectly.

And I'm about 1500. Not amazing by any means, but enough that the chess comparison pinged me.

[Laplacian]

You only lose when you give up.

Common misconception, you also lose when you lose

There's letters in these words.

The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club

[Laplacian]

Also, I didn't vote earlier because I thought Enchant had more votes than they actually do and distracted by video games instead of checking.
VOTE: Enchant

[Laplacian]

You only lose when you give up.

Common misconception, you also lose when you lose

There's letters in these words.

After I made the tautology joke I thought "is this telling us there's a breadcrumb?" and spent like 15 minutes reading through Enchant and Alianna's posts like I'm a character from a shitty Dan Brown novel.

[Laplacian]

UNVOTE: Enchant

i'm ready to revote but i wonder if scum upwards would've hammered there

According to my reads as they are right now, the Enchant wagon is mostly town-led with the notable exception of PoP. It's interesting that nobody hammered, especially because it would have been a justifiable hammer. So either it's Scum!Enchant or my townreads are off.

Yeah i mean, i think scum upwards wouldn't dare hammering it? at least not without his partner encouraging it

i think we're onto scum one way or another today at least

There could be a lot of things going on here but it is an interesting dynamic. Could be Enchant and Upwards as teammates and Upwards doesn't want to let his partner go that easy.

I mean, i was more thinking in the line of "if i kill enchant today they'll deffo go for me tommorow" which would be pretty realistic given upward's rough position, regardless of enchant's alignement

I see your point, but Upwards was the other big wagon of the day so it doesn't really get Upwards out of anything by not hammering. It's possible that the scumteam didn't want all of them on the same wagon, or if I'm wrong about PoP, Upwards didn't want to hammer a buddy. Or maybe Upwards just got cold feet idk

What's your case on PoP?

[Laplacian]

I want to give him a chance to stop acting and start playing

How much time were you going to give them?

[Laplacian]

What's your case on PoP?

1. Zebedee's vote pattern was weird. He was on Gamma during the competing Gamma/Margot wagons and then, fairly mysteriously, moved his vote away from either of those wagons (specifically to me) and just sat out the rest of the day until he was replaced. No real rationale was given for this.

2. To make matters worse, he had some interaction with Margot that I see as being critical of Margot. It is somewhat hard for me to tell because I don't totally understand what he was saying but it sounded like he had an issue with Margot. Yet instead of voting Margot, he votes for a go-nowhere wagon and parks himself there without explanation. It feels like scum who doesn't want to bus their buddy on D1 but also doesn't want to be on a mis-elim wagon.

3. PoP replaces in and basically immediately begins defending Upwards, who also had suspicious activity on D1. PoP has posted quite a lot in defense of Upwards and is kind of thin everywhere else.

4. PoP also frustrated me by asking questions that I've answered before. (This may or may not be a scumtell)

However, I did find PoP's comment about Enchant's meta to be interesting and possibly he has a point there. Enchant looks to be more flippant as scum and that tracks in the games PoP posted. So I'm also entertaining Enchant/Upwards as a possibility.

Agreed on #1 & 2, rereading ZBD it is a really weird vote. Not sold on #3 though - there's the one major post and a few mentions, but he's spent about as many posts analyzing & discussing Enchant as well.

[Laplacian]

Also, people have been talking about the hammering (or lack thereof), so wagon time. Looking at the wagons, on Upward we had:
Gypyx, PoP, MMRP, Naerys, Laplacian

And on Enchant:
PoP, Gypyx, Naerys, Laplacian, HT


This means that on both wagons were:
PoP, Gypyx, Naerys, Me

On neither wagon:
Lucca, Delta, Upwards*, Enchant*

This makes me feel better about Delta. If she was scum I'd have expected her to hop on whichever one of the two E-1 wagons was actually town.

PoP & Gypyx started both of these wagons, and town is (imo) sitting in a pretty good spot with 2v8. I think this means maf won't hardbus. So if Enchant is scum, PoP is probably safe. (fakeedit: Just noticed Naerys basically said the complement of this in 1072). Same with Upward -> Gypyx.


@Delta, do you agree with that last paragraph? If so, can I persuade you to join the Enchant wagon to try to get a clear on PoP?

[Laplacian]

No creature is one-dimensional.

No one will act same twice.

Ugh, I started liking your posting the last couple posts, then you drop this platitude. Heraclitus beat you too it by a good 2000 years.

Got anything relevant? Explanation for either vote? Why you think I'm so sus? A claim? Cute animated gif?

[Laplacian]

No creature is one-dimensional.

No one will act same twice.

Ugh, I started liking your posting the last couple posts, then you drop this platitude. Heraclitus beat you too it by a good 2000 years.

Got anything relevant? Explanation for either vote? Why you think I'm so sus? A claim? Cute animated gif?

I am not interested in entertaining you, as you just mock me and assume me as evil.

Even if you are not evildoer, it's waste of time, as you proven to be stubborn.

I've just softened on Deltawave over the last several pages. You haven't given me, or anyone else, anything to try to change opinions. Even if you think I'm impossibly stubborn, there's 8 other people for you to try to convince and you just yeet straight over the opening I tried to give you.

[Laplacian]

Alianna still in this game, right?

Oh IM CLAP

Rofl, these don't exactly fill me with confidence on your reads.

[Laplacian]

Confidence is key. Even if you aren’t sure in reads be sure in that.

okay, I'm brought by this line's big town energy

[Laplacian]

I've been deliberating if this is a good idea or not all day. The only way I see Conical making sense as scum is to try to bait out invests and protectives, and I think town comes out even with a goon for 2 pr trade. I cc protective, doc with some restrictions. Was on Gypyx last night.

Conical, does your role have any restrictions?

[Laplacian]

Lapia, would you be willing to elaborate on your restrictions?

I think there's a chance for you both to be town if these restrictions prevent you from targeting each other in some way

1-shot strongman against a single protective is also maybe a bit overkill actually

Fuck it, radical honesty time. 3 shot doc.

Dragon has run a 2 doc game before, so it's not totally out of the question. 100% another scum role though if we have 2 PRs, one with no restrictions.

Conical, did you want to full claim?

[Laplacian]

If you're a PR and you CC someone who has only softclaimed, don't give them a fullclaim for them to tailor their own claim around

His claim is already weird when 3 of the 4 roles I know of are X-shot

[Laplacian]

i think you're being overly agressive in shutting down the possibility of there being 2 protectives anyways Comical

I’m fine with that in a setup level.

I just can tell Lap’s scum here

Tf do you think I was doing at the start of the day then? I was trying to figure out scum's targeting logic so I could heal someone better. This feels like the dumbest omgus after I joked about your reads when you didn't even know what slot you were that cascaded into clalm wars

[Laplacian]

(Also, I gonna commute home, will be back in like 45 minutes before hitting the gym)

[Laplacian]

@Delta
@Enchant
@Naerys
@Lucca
@Upwards

Please. The 6 of us are who needs to vote for Lap here. I beg you to give me this one day to earn your trust. There is not a 3-shot Doc and a Doctor in this game. Lap is already defending themselves for if I get faded today with the "oh dragon's put 2 doctors in a game before!"

I'm not defending myself, I'm searching for reason you

aren't

scum because I town read both of your past slots and your play makes no fucking sense as a scum gambit. But you're shooting youself in the foot there by assuming in there's two goons instead of a more powerful scum team that, again, matches dragon's past games

[Laplacian]

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games

leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions

. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug.

From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

this does not fit with their 3-shot doc claim.

Because I was the protective that was listed before that ffs. You're the one with the anomalous claim

[Laplacian]

Inclined to agree with HT. Conical and I reread with updated priors, bayesian style. If this really is 1v1 and not 2 docs, we've got time to resolve it

[Laplacian]

actually, we are in a direct 1v1: this is a Simple game.

No duplicate roles in Simple games. You're conf scum to me.

Yep, that makes it easy
VOTE: Comical

[Laplacian]

Frankly, I feel it's likely we have 1 more town PR, and if we do I will protect them tonight.

It's most likely another investigative of some sort,

and by saying this, if I were scum here, if they ended up dying, that would be a scum claim. If it's something like a Role Cop or Vanilla Cop, that can legitimately confirm that I am Doctor here, while getting their Night 1 action and basically locking them in for getting here tomorrow.

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones,

probably including a limited investigator either way.

Stealing my work and pretending it's theirs to look towny.

Alianna still in this game, right?

Oh IM CLAP

Rofl, these don't exactly fill me with confidence on your reads.

Hey, I replaced Macho, i knew that.

Confidence is key. Even if you aren’t sure in reads be sure in that.

I’m decently confident with Enchant town, but wanna take some time to check out VC’s more

The early discrediting attempts is already a good sign for my reads imo

Tries to shade me for calling out his reads while barely knowing the game

Also, setup speculation since DE70 was has past games in his sig.

His 2 games leaned towards lots of weaker roles, with lots of use or time restrictions. This matches maf's 1 shot jug, so I'd expect them to have 1 more PR waiting. Rolecop could make sense with the 4+ town PRs I'm assuming.

We definitely have a bodyguard or doc because of the jug. From the two one-shot roles, this game fits the weaker roles meta. I'd guess 1 more solid role or 2 weak ones, probably including a limited investigator either way.

Also, this is not fishing for claims, shut the fuck up about your role unless you have something actionable or your role is kaput

ha. HAHAHAHAHAHA

BEGONE tiny mafia

VOTE: Laplacian

MMRP, the former Comical slot, also tries to push me immediately before managing to pocket me

Anyone turning down a Mass Claim today automatically states they are okay with 25%+ chance of losing out on info.

This is exactly what Hu Tao scum did by trying to stop my pushing of a Mass Claim.

Hu Tao also knows that I push this hard as town for a mass claim. There is no way Hu Tao sees this as ScumMe here.

Trying to convince people to mass claim so they can yeet the potential other investigative role.

Notice the clean roles, 1-shot or full. 3-shot is wacky.

The town in Lap and I is clearly me, and it's comical to think otherwise.

Pretending a 3-shot is an insane role when most simple normal games only last 4-6 days and DE has a penchant for weird roles

im suiciding if i am scum here

if you think i do that as scum in this spot, well....dont know what to tell ya, probably should look past the surface when you play

If I'm scum,

my cc would also be suicide.

fuck it

lose the game

VOTE: Comical

getting a big ol i told you so post game

Salty self-voting because the gambit didn't work


They knew I was town going into this, went after me because I'm on many peoples scum list and thought they found an easy target. It failed, and now Comical is flailing for anyone to trust them. Go reread my day 2 start with my doc role in mind.

[Laplacian]

Trying to convince people to mass claim so they can yeet the potential other investigative role.

This is a scum slip.

If another PR claimed, how could I kill them if you were really a town Doc?

... I said trying. You setting up a 1v1 shows your gambit wasn't smart in the first place.

[Laplacian]

I am mafia, i give up.

k. VOTE: Enchant
We get Enchant today so there's guaranteed a doc on Naerys, resolve the 1v1 tomorrow, ggez

[Laplacian]

let's not validate whatever enchant's pulling right now pls

How does validation come in to this? Enchant claimed Scum on page 60; they're either scum or gamethrowing. And I'd like to know which as soon as possible so we can either a) win by resolving the 1v1 or b) can stop caring.

[Laplacian]

let's not validate whatever enchant's pulling right now pls

How does validation come in to this? Enchant claimed Scum on page 60; they're either scum or gamethrowing. And I'd like to know which as soon as possible so we can either a) win by resolving the 1v1 or b) can stop caring.

they're gamethrowing either way

True, so why not just end it?

[Laplacian]

My problem is that aside from this whole counter-claim debacle I can't read Lap or Comical as scum. But the unavoidable conclusion is that one has to be. If Comical is scum then they are basically throwing the game, so I'm going with that.

VOTE: Laplacian

I don't care much anymore who we eliminate, as long as Comical dies if Lap is town, but why is it throwing for Comical and not for Lap? Lap CC'd eagerly and earlier than he should have. He didn't need to lock himself into that 1v1 and guarantee his death if he's scum.

I'll re-read that whole interaction when I'm not between meetings but one factor that I've taken note of recently is that Comical is chowing down on Lap (as you would expect from a PR that was counter-claimed) but Lap doesn't have that same aggressiveness. Usually when a legitimate PR is counter-claimed they go nuts on the person who did that.

Was super busy yesterday (first day of classes) and did not have the energy to respond to Comical's four thousand posts in one day. Enchant said they're scum, and the 1v1 wins us the game either order. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have to try anymore, town win is inevitable.

But notice when Comical began pushing on me. Enchant, who as of pg 60 said they're scum, was the obvious vote leader, probably having 24 hours left or so before someone hammered. Comical sees scumbud in peril and town doing good at 2v8, and decides I'm the next easiest wagon to get going. They throw everything at the wall, going full quantity of post over quality of evidence, even including a fakeclaim to try to get anything to stick on me and divert attention away from Enchant. The timing is perfect for that, but he didn't expect the CC into 1v1 with a guaranteed scum because of the simple normal rules

[Laplacian]

Note that the inevitable town win is assuming Enchant's scum claim isn't gamethrowing town. If it is, then I'm also not going to try because the game is broken and idgaf

[Laplacian]

My problem is that aside from this whole counter-claim debacle I can't read Lap or Comical as scum. But the unavoidable conclusion is that one has to be. If Comical is scum then they are basically throwing the game, so I'm going with that.

VOTE: Laplacian

I don't care much anymore who we eliminate, as long as Comical dies if Lap is town, but why is it throwing for Comical and not for Lap? Lap CC'd eagerly and earlier than he should have. He didn't need to lock himself into that 1v1 and guarantee his death if he's scum.

Made that exact point in 1464. If I'm scum, my play is suicidal af. Comical is just getting all the attention because 50% of the posts in the last 10 pages are him desperately flailing. He tried a gambit to save Enchant, it backfired hard.

[Laplacian]

what's the benefit of leaving naerys alive for tomorow tho

Confirmed town means less vote options. Bonus points for flygon avatar.

[Laplacian]

He's scum. He acts like this as scum.

btw that's bonkers that this is a common occurence for enchant to act like that

i legit don't get it

This is townEnchant doing this.

Imo, if this was scum enchant doing this, it’s borderline bannable.

And if it's town enchant, it's also throwing! The only way this makes any sense is Enchant just trying to throw more chaos to prolong their life, and you yet again come to their defense when they're on the chopping block

[Laplacian]

Enchant / Comical are the only scum team that makes sense in this mess of a day. Comical's timing is always perfect, swooping in at the last second Enchant hits E-1 to call me scum and spam post their way to an argument

[Laplacian]

I can guarantee if I get voted today and you all see the big green 3x doc on my role card, Comical going to swoop in with 200 posts about how this was his galaxybrained fake claim and how it was super good for town and he's totally towny

[Laplacian]

He's scum. He acts like this as scum.

btw that's bonkers that this is a common occurence for enchant to act like that

i legit don't get it

This is townEnchant doing this.

Imo, if this was scum enchant doing this, it’s borderline bannable.

And if it's town enchant, it's also throwing! The only way this makes any sense is Enchant just trying to throw more chaos to prolong their life, and you yet again come to their defense when they're on the chopping block

You can tell this is coming from scum because we’re in a direct 1v1 and Lap is actively trying to convince ME that I’m scum here

Wow, it's almost like there's 8 other people in the game who can see this discussion and can draw conclusions from me pointing out your follies. This is as clueless as saying political debates are the candidates trying to convince each other of their policy ideas.

[Laplacian]

I can guarantee if I get voted today and you all see the big green 3x doc on my role card, Comical going to swoop in with 200 posts about how this was his galaxybrained fake claim and how it was super good for town and he's totally towny

and you don't trust that we'll kill him for that?

Oh, I truly, truly hope everyone will, but the fact that no one's hammered Enchant doesn't fill me with confidence

[Laplacian]

I never trust town to do something right.

For once, we agree




u still scum tho

[Laplacian]

If I was scum I would let flavor do his thing and vote out town

Oh ffs I didn't know Comical is Flavor Leaf. Suddenly the shitgazillion posts and immediately bossing town around make so much sense.

[Laplacian]

Obviously one of Laplacian/Comical has to be scum with the impossible counterclaims. If people are getting cold feet about that then the next best wagon is Enchant. This should be simple.

I think about half of us have reached that conclusion from the votes on Enchant.

[Laplacian]

Then they tried to claim doctor to counter my protective claim, and then tried to weasel the possibility of there being 2 doctors in the game so they don’t look bad after i flipped and didn’t have to directly 1v1.

They got caught out with the duplicate rule in Simple games.

I doubt anyone cares at this point, but this isn't true, and Comical knows that he's twisting things here. Notice how he doesn't quote anything, he just repeats the narrative that he set until people start to believe it or just get tired of arguing with him.

Here's Laplacian's posts that Comical is referring to:

I've been deliberating if this is a good idea or not all day. The only way I see Conical making sense as scum is to try to bait out invests and protectives, and I think town comes out even with a goon for 2 pr trade. I cc protective, doc with some restrictions. Was on Gypyx last night.

Conical, does your role have any restrictions?

Lapia, would you be willing to elaborate on your restrictions?

I think there's a chance for you both to be town if these restrictions prevent you from targeting each other in some way

1-shot strongman against a single protective is also maybe a bit overkill actually

Fuck it, radical honesty time. 3 shot doc.

Dragon has run a 2 doc game before, so it's not totally out of the question. 100% another scum role though if we have 2 PRs, one with no restrictions.

Conical, did you want to full claim?

In that post, he clearly states that if the other protective doesn't have any restrictions, it's 100% a scum role. Comical had been dodging the hardclaim at the time this post was made. At no point did Laplacian propose that his role could be compatible with Comical's role, nor did he get "caught out" by there being no duplicate roles.

No, Comical read it right. I didn't know about the no duplicates rule, so was saying "if there are 2 town docs, then scum must have anoter PR"

[Laplacian]

I am calculated and confident as scum.

I am cocky as town.

Which one do you think this is?

If you know your meta, you can work to mitigate it. Worthless argument

[Laplacian]

I am calculated and confident as scum.

I am cocky as town.

Which one do you think this is?

If you know your meta, you can work to mitigate it. Worthless argument

Do you disagree with that sentiment though?

I think it’s fine for people to think I am scum here, but still it wouldn’t be a cocky roughshod unless it was specifically planned to do so.

I know you're scum, and you've been acting in confident af. Adds up

[Laplacian]

I am mafia, i give up.

For everyone on the fence about Enchant, note how they dropped the gimmick as soon as they said this. No more

bold

, no more quasi-deific persona, just posting like normal with regular vibes. If this isn't a tell, I don't know what is

[Laplacian]

This is so ridiculous. Keeping both doc claims alive just presents us with the same decision to make tomorrow. Then what are we going to do? Leave it an open question until lim or lose? Having a flip out of one of these two would confirm at least one of them as scum and provide lots of information at the same time. It is objectively the right thing to do to resolve this today. Any possible benefit derived from kicking this can down the road would be totally blown out if scum has some type of roleblocking. (e.g. RB, Jailkeeper, JOAT, whatever.)

Valid. While I obviously prefer Comical first so we can save a day and I can actually doc tonight, either order gets us there in the end. I just hope we can get the votes since Lucca is lurking and Upwards seems really reluctant to vote.

VOTE: Comical

[Laplacian]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE

[Laplacian]

Alright, after my initial tableflip moment, good gambit.

Delta's been on my scumlist for a while, but I'm'a reread them over this last crazy day before I vote

[Laplacian]

Gonna reread everything in fact

[Laplacian]

Maybe flip some more tables

[Laplacian]

Gonna open up blender, model a table, and then run my 3D printer all night so I have more fucking tables to flip

[Laplacian]

UNVOTE:

Yeah, Enchant & Comical came out of this mess looking good. Definitely wasn't the most efficient and sanity-maintaining way to do it, but it got us there.

I think Delta looks worse, but she was already hanging out on my scumlist so I've got some bias there.

PoP seemed legit, but I reallllly don't like 1818.

[Laplacian]

Gonna open up blender, model a table, and then run my 3D printer all night so I have more fucking tables to flip

Let it be said I don't back down from a dumb bit
https://imgur.com/YoeCrLK

[Laplacian]

Gonna open up blender, model a table, and then run my 3D printer all night so I have more fucking tables to flip

Let it be said I don't back down from a dumb bit
https://imgur.com/YoeCrLK

(and yes I did this instead of rereading the thread. worth it)

[Laplacian]

Urgh, momentum died since I think everyone got exhausted from the Great Docclaim Wars of 2024. Makes it hard to distinguish scum staying back vs apathy. Soft clear to Enchant and Comical for now. I like PoP's and HT's reactions overall, Delta the same, Gypyx feels scummier to me from that. Also have to reread HT soon to make sure I'm not pocketed.

VOTE: Deltawave

Not locked on this vote, but I've been scumleaning her for a while and she's the main wagon with < 24 hours. I should be around for most of tomorrow in case we have a last minute swerve

[Laplacian]

Happy to swerve to Gypyx or Upward if someone wants to make the effort to swing votes over there, maybe PoP or Lucca with a decent case. Just don't have energy atm to do it myself

[Laplacian]

Reread HT, still town vibes to me

[Laplacian]

UNVOTE:

Yeah, Enchant & Comical came out of this mess looking good. Definitely wasn't the most efficient and sanity-maintaining way to do it, but it got us there.

I think Delta looks worse, but she was already hanging out on my scumlist so I've got some bias there.

PoP seemed legit, but I reallllly don't like 1818.

It was tongue in cheek asking for votes, because I think Comical is scum. Although I do also happen to think that even if he's town, we have a higher chance of winning with him dead.

If Comical is scum, who do you think his partner is?

[Laplacian]

idk how everyone even ends up viewing delta as scum for that but sure whatever

I don't read Delta any more or scummier than I did before the dueling doc dilemma, but scumleaned them before and any flip is better than no flip. I really can't see another wagon with Upward's reluctance to vote and Lucca lurking

[Laplacian]

Remind me why i stopped hating Laplacian?

Because my tableflip gag was a breath of fresh air in a dying game

And because if I'm scum my cc makes no sense

[Laplacian]

Cool, glad you're around. Warming up as in liking PoP more or warming up to vote PoP?

[Laplacian]

Happy to swerve to Gypyx or Upward if someone wants to make the effort to swing votes over there, maybe PoP or Lucca with a decent case. Just don't have energy atm to do it myself

I'd be down with Upwards. I still don't know what you meant by Gypyx made a slip.

? That was pop, not me who said that

[Laplacian]

Yeah, it feels like Upwards moved from confused newbie day 1 to actively stalling day 2. If Delta flips green, Upwards is a top suspect imo

[Laplacian]

once you become conftown you get added to the mafia PT so that you may plot the fake war with the Mafia that's used to control the masses of the unconfirmed townies

Yeah, Illuminati chat is pretty fun. Only downside is you get sick of the pyramid-with-the-all-seeing-eye memes

[Laplacian]

btw Upwards was just online and didn't post shit while we're at E-1 close to the deadline

would he do this if he was town you tell me

This is kinda low blow, how can we know he actually has time to post

I agree that irl stuff happens and he said he had a busy weekend, but he's definitely been lurking.

[Laplacian]

I'll swerve to hammer if need be

[Laplacian]

I’m gonna 50/50 Pop/Hu Tao.

You get Naerys, Lap.

Da comrade o7

[Laplacian]

Eh, I think we should hold on Delta.

lol, was literally writing up that me, you, and HT could swerve to Upwards and put them at E-1

[Laplacian]

Since I'm happy with either of them being voted

[Laplacian]

I think Upwards is just a poor townie who got caught up in my obsessiveness kicking in. I was wild all over then I went dark for a few days site wide.

I mean, crazy gambits on a mafia forum are probably the safest kind of bender you can go on.

[Laplacian]

DeltaWave has been munched on by lions! She was a

Mafia Goon

.

Spoiler: Role PM

Mafia Goon

Welcome, DeltaWave! You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Your mafia partners are [REDACTED]. You may talk to them here.

Your faction has a factional kill ability. Each night, you or one of your partners may attempt to kill a town-aligned player.

You win if the mafia controls 50% of the votes, or if nothing can prevent this.

Please confirm by replying with your role and alignment, or by posting in the scum PT.

Night 2 starts now and will end in (expired on 2024-01-24 03:16:43). Please do not forget to send me your night actions.

yeah idk, guess i'll shut up

Who were you on Lapla?

Was on Naerys

[Laplacian]

Nobody died during the night!

Awww yisss

[Laplacian]

Nobody died during the night!

Awww yisss

Lap this looks so fake

Less fake than your doc claim

[Laplacian]

Jokes aside, I dont see how we lose this with an 8v1. Even a pgo and some drunken dayvigs would have trouble ruining it. Gonna rerrad some stuff after work and probably vote gypyx unless i find something super weird.

[Laplacian]

Maybe pop since I forgot they existed for a minute and that's not a good sign

[Laplacian]

Or I'll self vote since it's apparently the hot new trend

[Laplacian]

Jokes aside, I dont see how we lose this with an 8v1.

Easily.

VOTE: enchant
Only scum uses stretched pictures

[Laplacian]

Nobody died during the night!

Awww yisss

Lap this looks so fake

Less fake than your doc claim

Just to clarify.

You healed Naerys OR Comical?

Naerys, said a page ago

[Laplacian]

2 pages now

[Laplacian]

Nobody died during the night!

Awww yisss

Lap this looks so fake

Less fake than your doc claim

Just to clarify.

You healed Naerys OR Comical?

Naerys, said a page ago

What judgement you used in targeting Naerys instead of BG.

BG said to and I was hoping naerys lied about being a 1-shot and would blast someone

[Laplacian]

Mmmm nah

[Laplacian]

Jokes aside, I dont see how we lose this with an 8v1. Even a pgo and some drunken dayvigs would have trouble ruining it. Gonna rerrad some stuff after work and probably vote gypyx unless i find something super weird.

I think going [Upwards, Gyp, PoP] wins this 100% of the time

why aren't people considering PoP anyway?

PoP's on the my list, but I agree with Comical's hierarchy here. Gypyx and Upward first, then PoP since I see the logic in their posts even if I disagreed with it

[Laplacian]

I think tonight if necessary, 50/50 doc on Naerys or Myself

Then I will 50/50 on Hu Tao/Lap.

Gonna break out the fancy metal d20 for this one

[Laplacian]

Mmmm nah

Oh well.

I won't bother you anymore.
Today, that's it.

Did you want to explain this? I thought about docing Comical last night and now after you said that, and I can't see a world where Naerys is not the better heal for me.

[Laplacian]

Naerys is conf town and I was hoping they bluffed about the 1x vig shot. And if I doc you, I'm relying on you to guard the right target instead of me choosing the right target, and while I' 99% sure you're town, I'm 100% sure I am. Unless we had agreed to mutually target each other, that just seems like an extra, messy step

[Laplacian]

This calculus changes with my last doc ofc, so I should say "last night Naerys was the right move", not that there does not exist a scenario where you're the better choice

[Laplacian]

I think she's just given up. No reason to act like that as town

Agreed.
VOTE: gypyx

[Laplacian]

Naerys is conf town and I was hoping they bluffed about the 1x vig shot. And if I doc you, I'm relying on you to guard the right target instead of me choosing the right target, and while I' 99% sure you're town, I'm 100% sure I am. Unless we had agreed to mutually target each other, that just seems like an extra, messy step

I will be honest, i just find that strange, that mafia went with killing Naerys (0% chance of success) instead of, uh, you, which would result in either you dying, or Comical dying on your place.


There's no motivation for mafia to do it.

I assumed they had the same thought I did - "what if vig bluffed about 1 shot".

Alternately, evidence for upwards being scum by going with the weird shot instead of trying to outmanuever me and comical

[Laplacian]

So yeah. Heal Comical, Comical defend Naerys.

Simlle.

I will hammer when you confirm this plan^

Sure, I'll heal comical

[Laplacian]

There’s a reason they call my Boonskiies account, ‘That’s Not All, Folks!’

I am a 1-shot BP!!!!!!



Scum totally killed me last night

Nicely done, and I'll go heal whoever the last plan from Enchant or Comical said when someone hammers

[Laplacian]

VOTE: Upwards
I don't see much reason to wait. The scenario hasn't changed much since yesterday except that I lost my medical license

[Laplacian]

Naerys, as per 2108

[Laplacian]

at this point, this is one of the weirdest games I've played on this site and my mind is playing tricks on me

getting paranoid, so i'll just go VOTE: Upwards and hope it's for the best

Yeah, weird af game for sure. Pretty sure I have both scumread and townread every person at some point in the game

[Laplacian]

How could Lap not be town?

i could come up with a couple scenarios, but i dont really think any are true. their vote on delta was the weakest imo, but i still think overall it makes sense Lap is town.

Game probs ends with Upwards? If so, that's kinda cool I came into this game, pushed Upwards, then switched over to Delta right after.

I still think there's merit in LuccaScum or PopScum, but i think some things both of them have done are just weird as scum, like the bus hammer from Lucca, the over aggression from PoP onto me, just really weird and unnatural choices to make as scum albeit choices that could have been made. They aren't natural choices, they are chosen choices, if that makes sense.

outside of that ten-page period where you pushed Laplacian?

Tbf, I came into this game trying to seem a little scummy so I'd be kept around as bait instead of dying n1 and depriving town of doc

[Laplacian]

Simply ask yourself the following: Would I be able to quote all this if it was Scum!Upwards in his very first game?

yeah, totally.

only 2 of these quotes are within the last 500 posts, and they're both from the chaos elemental known as comical
none of these are explaining your actions, they're all discussing how other people have read you way in the past

where are your vote patterns, the plays that make no sense if you were scum, the smoking gun of your townitude?

[Laplacian]

Soooo, anyone seen any good shows lately? Might as well chat if we're not gonna turbo

[Laplacian]

Watching Percy Jackson

I’m not really a fan of the Disney tv show formula, but i always wanted that series to have something solid

Worth watching if you never read the books? They came out just right after I started moving away from YA stuff so I never read them

[Laplacian]

What are people’s thoughts in a world where Upwards flips town?

I can’t tell really what the flip will be here, but i don’t think it’s like always scum by any means.

I kinda can see Upwards making all these posts as town.

I'm feeling 65/35 on this flip. If we're still playing, I feel PoP over Lucca afterwards, but that's more vibes based instead of concrete evidence

[Laplacian]

Gg, absolutely crazy game

[Laplacian]

tbh that shot kinda carried the game

Yeah, Naerys mvp