Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[Malachai]

Greetings, everyone. I have plenty of time today to catch up, so, catch up I shall!

[Malachai]

I am going to clear this slot's vote as I work through the game.

UNVOTE:

[Malachai]

Solon's initial set of posts seems a little awkward and over-the-top to me. Post 27, IMO he's going a little overboard with a case, and post 30, he seems a bit sensitive about being voted for.

I get good vibes from GuyInFreezer, kind of an understanding-of-the-game vibe and contributing meaningfully.

Gob seems to just be trolling which is neither townie nor scummy, I guess, and the game is still early (I'm at page 4 as I write this). I do see that he was replaced at some point also.

Kay seems to mostly be sitting on the sidelines, but she's also posting a lot and making her presence known, and that in particular is very townie to me. I think there's generally a good correlation between game involvement and towniness.

I continue to not really understand or follow what Solon is doing. In post 111, I don't get the scum read on GuyInFreezer (GuyInFreezer is probably my strongest town read at this point), nor do I get why he is already speculating on scum teams so early in the game. Also, now I see in post 122 that Solon thinks Kay is town now, despite saying "I do believe you could be scum" to Kay in 111? That seems like a fairly rapid, unnatural progression.

Doctor Drew posted a bit of fluff for a bit. I see here where he voted for Roland, but that vote and his subsequent interrogation don't align with the town read he gave Roland in post 142.

Okay, gonna fire this one off now because I'm finding some weird stuff with Drew I need to address in its own post.

[Malachai]

I guess I want to address this part in particular:

Your response to my question made me feel good to throw a vote out to see what happens.

And kinda seems like you acted in a way that someone who knows how the game works, but doesn't have all the experience would react as scum

I don't know that I really follow this at all. To recap, this exchange with Drew and Roland went like this:

Roland:

I am telling you that you are twisting my arguments and misrepresenting them. I know what my arguments are, what I am saying, and you do not. It is not your place to decide whether you are fairly representing what I am saying. It is mine and mine alone.

Drew:

I really vibe with this, seems like genuine frustration.

Roland, how much experience do you have with mafia?

Roland:

I used to play it with an old World of Warcraft guild of mine on our guild forum, though we called it Werewolf rather than mafia. I've played Town of Salem also, more recently. Been a while since I have played a true forum game of mafia, though, and our days were much shorter than this also. So if my playstyle seems a little weird or something y'all aren't used to, that might be why?

Drew:

VOTE: Roland

Roland:

Indeed, it makes perfect sense to abandon a town read and do a complete 180 if a person answers your question about mafia history and makes a dark tower reference. This vote makes perfect sense.

I read Roland's response here as very natural and genuine, and his much-touted "reaction" to the vote is basically just "uh...what?" Which I understand, because that's how I felt also, reading this. I don't see what there was in Roland's answer to Drew's question that seems suspicious, nor do I see anything particularly scummy in him giving an "uh...what?" reaction to a vote after he gave what seems like a totally innocuous reply to the question. Drew seems to argue that his reaction to the question was suspicious, and his reaction to the vote was scummy, and I am just not seeing either. I get the strong sense Drew is drumming up a case out of thin air that doesn't seem to align with what's really going on here.

On a side note:

Yes, Roiland and his quest for the drak toweler.

I nearly spit my water out of my mouth when I read this lol. I love the dry sense of humor.

[Malachai]

Through 10 pages, I note that Random Nurse has said pretty much nothing since a couple RVS votes on page 1, Not_Mafia made a crazy-ass entrance and didn't do anything else, and FancyPants hasn't said MUCH, though that reads list was good. I do actually think maybe I should take a closer look at Kay? It's the fact that I vibe with the Drew read that makes me think perhaps I should take the Kay read seriously?


Post 250, just what the hell, I don't see how GuyInFreezer is "bleeding scum" in the slightest. He's a strong town read. Is Gob trying to discredit the strongest townie? (albeit quite poorly)

Stuff it, Kirby.

lol oh my GOD.

Not_Mafia's reads list, obviously I can't feel great about it with him listing my slot as the scummiest role. I also don't think Gob deserves the towniest read either. But then everything inbetween, I am mostly okay with? Maybe? I think? Feels like I've thrown a lot of what-ifs in there. But most importantly, he didn't talk about these reads at all, hasn't defended them in the slightest, which isn't helpful.

Around the time that JacksonVirgo swapped in, Drew's only contributions are just fluff and not substantive, which doesn't look good for Drew.


As for JacksonVirgo, honestly I don't feel great about his introduction which feels largely meme-y and is skipping over a lot of content. I mean he's even outright admitting to it in post 353. I already had bad vibes about Gob for separate reasons so this slot looks pretty bad to me right now.


If 362 is redacted, why isn't 363?


Post 432 is a head-scratcher for me. He emphasizes that he "dislikes GIF in comparison with the others" and I totally disagree. Also: "I trust Drew/N_M aren't wolves together" - how does he arrive at a conclusion like that when Not_Mafia has done next to nothing in this game?


I really like that Kay asked the question she asked in post 448. Town wants to work with others, wants outside input. I just see Kay sticking around a lot and that is more commonly town to really be around the game a lot.

Infant annihilator sounds like ear cancer, sorry not sorry. What do you listen to if you want to relax?


Hell of a case made by my previous slot partner, and Drew's response in 483 is, like, REALLY bad.

20 pages in now. (posting every 10 pages of review)

[Malachai]

I need to take care of some things, will keep catching up as I'm able. Feel free to leave me with questions or comments on whatever.

[Malachai]

Post 512, I see my previous slotted player just had trouble keeping his composure.

On a side note I don't really see why JacksonVirgo was inserting himself needlessly into that Roland vs. Drew interaction; clearly would have been a lot better if he had stayed out of it. I can't say I understand his compulsion to get involved there.

VOTE: RN

I hate limming all lurkers on D1.....but I am kinda ok with this here......and I think I am ok with Roland living for another day, I believe they will continue to spew scum if actually scum.......but do realize that we are also matching each other in frustration

VOTE: Nurse

I hate limming players just for being absent too, so I hate this vote.

Post 591from FancyPants feels good. I like when a player repeatedly summarizes where they are at with the game.

This post is interesting:

I'll vote for anyone in RN/NM/Drew/at this stage - and I'll listen to Roland/Solon/Freezer on who, as my town block, I think Jackson is town but I personally don't think they have a good grasp on this game seeing as their two strongest reads are my strongest townread - and the only person I can confirm is town.

Are you joking? What makes you believe you’re right over me? This is honestly insulting, different reads doesn’t mean I don’t have a grasp on the game. Stop this line of thinking immediately.

JacksonVirgo appears to be quite pissed off that someone is telling him he doesn't have a grasp on the game. He's being a bit sensitive and he was with this also:

Kinda wanna flip you simply because of how combative you are, I don't work well with people like you

I think my fear is that scum is great at utilizing the appearance of emotion to shut people down. I ask myself what the point of the emotion was, what the outcome was, and the outcome in each case isn't great. He doesn't want FancyPants to be able to give an impression that suggests JacksonVirgo's takes can't be trusted, and the whole "people like you" thing directed at my previous slot owner is quite belittling.

With that said, I am surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist.

This is terrible. He scum-claimed, and you don't even know for sure who he is talking about with the pseudonyms!

I think Freezer is actually scum here. Either with Not_Mafia, or his tactic is just to keep the insane players alive.

I find myself agreeing with Solon here. I don't really follow why GuyInFreezer is "surprisingly okay" with the reads when it lists my slot as the scummiest, and, to quote GuyInFreezer himself:

Also I’m going need to see a cop guilty and a flipped cop to see Roland being scum at this point.

So now I find myself feeling better about Solon, feeling worse about GuyInFreezer. But overall I still feel quite townie about GuyInFreezer, so I think I just need to follow up on why GuyInFreezer gave this take when he has such a strong town read on Not_Mafia's scummiest read. And I can't say I agree with this take from Solon either:

I like Jackson's thoughts upon catching-up. Along with what I said above, I think that slot has to be town-binned unless something changes dramatically.

There's also this:

I am leaving room for being incorrect about you

This was directed at Roland. I mean, that "room" is to eliminate an easy inactive target. I think he's overstating how "forgiving" he really is here.

Oh, I don’t townread N_M. I was surprisingly ok with N_M’s readlist, but that’s about it. It’s not like he did anything after that other than wanting to lolhammer RN.

Yeah, so, GuyInFreezer drives that point home, that they're "surprisingly okay" with a list with their top town read as the top scum read? I mean, aren't the names at the extremes of these lists really the most important names in the lists? I don't follow this at all.

30 pages in. I notice that everyone seems in favor of eliminating our inactive players of Not_Mafia / Random Nurse. I'm genuinely concerned that they are both town, that they are being suspected because they are such easy elimination targets. My needle ticked upwards on Solon so I think it's plausible that my two scummiest reads at the moment, which are Drew / JacksonVirgo, are the scum team.

[Malachai]

I like FancyPants' focus, asking a question in post 752, not getting an answer, so then repeating the question in post 804. I would think scum would just let an unanswered question go, but FancyPants's persistence reads as townie to me.

This:

@Snow, when can we expect your take on the game and your scum reads and such?

4-5 hrs. returning from work. you can go ahead and hammer me if you feel so based on my predecessor's actions. just do it quickly.

In my experience, a person says this, it means they're town. I don't know why someone would swap into a game, learn they have one partner whose victory depends on this new player's contributions, and just say "eh fuck it, you can just kill me". Whereas a townie mentality is more like, well, there are lots of townies who probably know this game a lot better than I do, so why bother? I was completely null on this slot prior to this and this definitely trends the slot upwards towards town.

I spent a lot of time reading and digesting post 844, as well as the follow-up on it (particularly from GuyInFreezer). I don't think I agree with the reads but also I don't know that Snow has paid close enough attention to everything and is perhaps putting too much weight on the wrong things. Like why is there so much analysis of the Gob / GuyInFreezer interaction at the start, which was pretty clear to me just kind of a troll-y back and forth? I don't think I read Snow as scum for this, as the more obvious explanation is that there's a hell of a lot of ground to cover, in a short amount of time, and his slot is very much under the gun. I shouldn't be taken as a good example of how much a new player normally does when they swap in because I don't have the normal responsibilities you all likely have which would stop you from sinking time into this like I have just now lol. Think I just need to see more from Snow to sort this out.

Snow, do you mind if I ask, are you a native english speaker?

I appreciate that snow submitted post 873 and answered all of GuyInFreezer's questions. Willingness to answer questions and work WITH people is very townie.

I don't like that Not_Mafia didn't answer post 881.

Post 900, totally agree with Solon here. Drew said:

Snow actually has out effort in at least, but I am always weary when someone really towns it up when they repp in, so I am still fine with an RN lim.

In essence he said "he appears to be town; therefore, we should vote him out". Like what? At the very least, you can be suspicious, but now you're saying that it is SO suspicious that, out of everyone you would like to eliminate today, you want it to be that slot? That does not add up in my mind. He did later try to amend that by saying:

I guess I should have specified when someone reps into a slot that is highly scum read

But that seems like a forced explanation to me. Obviously, just because a slot is scum-READ, that doesn't mean the slot IS scum. And the argument is that, in that case, if someone comes in and seems more townie, then the right logical conclusion is that they aren't? This just doesn't make sense to me.

After this I see Roland kinda lost his cool and I understood a few pages before he left why he left. This is a stressful game and a lot of hurt feelings can emerge from it, no matter your alignment, so hopefully people don't beat up on the guy and just let him be after he chose to leave.

My final thought is that I do think Roland has a totally valid point about why he shouldn't be considered to be partnered with Snow, since he cast a vote on his partner that left him in a very vulnerable position. I mean the other obvious reason that this slot isn't partnered with snow is that this slot isn't mafia anyway lol, but I understand people want to do their theorycrafting and such, and that point in particular is legitimate.

I should be caught up now, but that was undoubtedly a lot of reading in a short amount of time and I may have missed stuff so I'll try to keep looking back and uncovering things as I go. Again please feel free to ask me / prod me about anything.

[Malachai]

Overall I would say JacksonVirgo and Drew are my scummiest reads here. Not sure I am on board with a Not_Mafia elimination, though I am not anything above null on that slot (that just means I'm not scumreading him either). I would say I'm very much not at all on board on eliminating Snow. GuyInFreezer is my top town read, and I feel townie about KayJayQueue, FancyPants, and Solon.

[Malachai]

So your read on me is purely based on the way I react emotionally?

That and the way I did my catchup, lol?

That's an oversimplification of my view here. It is not just those two things; it's also what I feel like is kind of a suspicious pattern of submitting lots of words but not really saying a whole lot. Giving the appearance of being involved, without really BEING involved. That is the kind of vibe I feel like I get from you.

If you have any more singular and substantive reads / cases you've made on people, please show me. I know I read fast but I still feel like there wasn't a whole lot of direction or consolidation of things from your end.

[Malachai]

Also, this is my read on your slot, some of which came from Gob. Like I said before I feel like his attempt to frame GuyInFreezer was just flat-out wrong and I don't understand how that read comes from a townie. I totally get why scum would be so threatened by someone who claims to have the whole game figured out "before page 10", so this is not entirely based on your actions.

[Malachai]

That was @JacksonVirgo, btw.

[Malachai]

There is no requirement for town to make substantive cases on people. I've made my arguments when I've wanted to make my arguments. I am not really one to consolidate that often, one of my recent games just closed was showing the extreme end of that. In fact, I am trying to fix that side of my playstyle with this very game, hence my behaviour surrounding your predecessor. So given this is one of the games I've been most consolidating, yet still giving my personal direction I feel this read is quite wrong for me as a player. Not expecting you to know how I play of course, that'd be silly.

Ok then, what are your reads, at the moment? Maybe just the two that you think are scum? And what are your thoughts on Not_Mafia in particular?

[Malachai]

@Drew

Forgive me if I missed it, but do you have a reads list also?

[Malachai]

And Jackson, what DO you listen to if you want to chill out?

[Malachai]

I believe you and Drew are both town. I'm more confident in Drew than I am for you. I believe GIF/Solon are town. I believe Snow's slot is wolf, it started as being my null-consolidation vote as the game was stagnant but that increased to a steady scum-read based on how the game progressed when that started kicking off. Snow's posting in particular did not do anything for me, like it seemed to do for you. N_M is null to me if I were to label it objectively, but if I incorporate my feelings into it. It feels wrong to consider that slot as it is, I am not okay with a wagon there. I am not yet sure if that's

because

of the read I have on Snow or if it's isolated to them but it's a feeling nonetheless. Fancy I am on the fence about

Sorry, please ignore my casual question and answer my serious one instead (or both, that's cool too lol):

Can you explain in more detail why you town read Drew?

[Malachai]

By the way, you forgot to mention Kay.

[Malachai]

What part of their reaction do you consider bad specifically, I am better at explaining when it's more focused.

It's not their "reaction", it's their logic and the way they are playing I am taking issue with.

If you want something specific, look at what I said in post 1031 and explain that to me.

[Malachai]

You could also reply to post 1040, where I started in with "Post 900, totally agree with Solon here..."

[Malachai]

Of course you'd believe Roland's response is natural and genuine. It's you.
Do you not see the progression Drew had? It's been explained by Drew, the man himself and even without that I caught it. You and Roland both seemed to miss that magically

You're going to have to explain to me what is scummy, what there is to be "caught" about a guy reacting like "huhwha?" to that line of questioning.

[Malachai]

Do you want that answer from me? Or from Drew? I don't think I'm the right person to respond if you're trying to read Drew for his posts.

Well you are the one claiming to know what he was thinking, right? It's not a guarantee that you actually knew what he was getting at, so it's worth asking you.

[Malachai]

I thought we were talking about what happened after he cast the vote. Specifically I am looking at everything Roland said and did between Drew making that vote and post 189 where Drew gives the full debrief on his experiment; the experiment is over at that point. What he is evaluating is between the vote in post 171 and the debrief in post 189.

All of that can be found here:

Indeed, it makes perfect sense to abandon a town read and do a complete 180 if a person answers your question about mafia history and makes a dark tower reference. This vote makes perfect sense.

I said perfect sense twice. Damn my redundancy!

Indeed, it makes perfect sense to abandon a town read and do a complete 180 if a person answers your question about mafia history and makes a dark tower reference. This vote makes perfect sense.

Also, who said I was town reading you?

I thought that was what you meant to convey when you commented on my frustration. I guess that wasn't your intent, then?

I have a strong disdain for the works of Stephen King

Damn, that sounds like Misery but good for you for taking The Stand. Your strong opinions are The Shining quality here. IT must be difficult to be the Gunslinger in what must feel like The Dead Zone, Under the Dome. Maybe we should pull a Shawshank Redemption and bust out of this Pet Sematary to send the scum walking down The Green Mile. Anyway, let’s get back to the game and catch some bad guys!

Carrie on.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the most award-worthy post of this game.

What do you think my intent was?

To convey that you were townreading me.

Also about asking what your mafia experience was as well.

To understand me better. For the same reason anyone asks anyone how much experience they have in any activity they are participating in.

These feel like some pretty straightforward questions and I don't understand why you needed to ask them.

I have a strong disdain for the works of Stephen King

Damn, that sounds like Misery but good for you for taking The Stand. Your strong opinions are The Shining quality here. IT must be difficult to be the Gunslinger in what must feel like The Dead Zone, Under the Dome. Maybe we should pull a Shawshank Redemption and bust out of this Pet Sematary to send the scum walking down The Green Mile. Anyway, let’s get back to the game and catch some bad guys!

Carrie on.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the most award-worthy post of this game.

The game barely started and you're already throwing out value judgements every which way. How about you yourself move the game state forward? Hm? These posts are just as worthless as many as mine.

It looks like I just did.

What I mean is: your frustration here seems genuine. If you were scum, I don't think you'd have minded that I said that you were pretty null at this point in the game. But you seem at least a little pissed off that I said you weren't really moving the game forward. That's some good evidence of your towniness and helps all of us to focus our efforts better.

All of the stuff contained in the spoiler tag, that Roland said, was enough for Drew to say this:

kinda seems like you acted in a way that someone who knows how the game works, but doesn't have all the experience would react as scum

And what I am saying is, I don't see what, in the material contained in the spoiler tag above, constitutes what Drew is describing here.

[Malachai]

K that spoiler tag definitely didn't work...

[Malachai]

By the way, Jackson, how would you explain Gob having such a scummy read on GuyInFreezer?

[Malachai]

Sure. Do you admit it's weird that he had such a strong scum read on a pretty comprehensively town-read role?

[Malachai]

I dunno, maybe this is a problematic and maybe even illegal line of questioning. I bring it up because it makes me feel kinda bad about your slot, and without an explanation, it remains a black mark on your slot.

[Malachai]

This is the same type of faulty logic I was calling Roland out for, and now you're doing it too

What do you mean by this? My predecessor judged you for things Gob did too?

[Malachai]

This is the same type of faulty logic I was calling Roland out for, and now you're doing it too

If you don't like talking about your predecessor, I don't see why I should need to answer for it either.

[Malachai]

This is the same type of faulty logic I was calling Roland out for, and now you're doing it too

If you don't like talking about your predecessor, I don't see why I should need to answer for it either.

I'm not asking you to explain your preds actions, I'm saying

your logic

is based in the assumption that different = scummy.

Well it's not just the read itself. Indeed if I scum read anyone with different reads from me, I'd probably scum read 100% of everyone I ever play with, right?

I do think there's something to a read that doesn't jive with ANYONE, though, and which seems REALLY off from my best efforts to characterize people. Both of these things are true of Gob's read there. I do indeed look at a unique read that nobody else shares, that seems to fly in the face of my own understanding of the game, with suspicion. And I should bring up a third and equally important factor: how well-defended it is. Because for sure someone can come out of nowhere with a totally new read, totally different from everyone else, but if they offer a good case for it, I'm a lot more likely to take that read as a serious, sincere read. Gob, as far as I can understand, didn't even try to prove that case.

So it does go a lot further beyond "you're just scum-reading the guy for having a different read".

[Malachai]

But at the same time I realize I won't get anywhere with asking you to explain what your predecessor did so I think I'm going to have to table this one on my end.

[Malachai]

As for Drew stuff, I still haven't heard a good explanation for what I mentioned in the middle of post 1040 or what I brought up in post 1068.

Whoever wants to try and explain it is free to do so...

[Malachai]

Alright. I'm satisfied with JacksonVirgo and moving him out of scum territory for now.

[Malachai]

You made a valid argument on why I should probably drop the whole Gob thing.

You're also tackling my questions pretty directly, not avoiding them and equivocating, which is townie behavior.

[Malachai]

I agree. I think the scum team is Not_Mafia and Drew, and Drew's actions last night really bear that out too. I am highly skeptical that Snow is scum and I've found good reasons to trust everyone else.

[Malachai]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Malachai]

At this point is there anything I could possibly do that you wouldn’t scumread me for? To quote an ancient 20 year old movie called Mean Girls: “Why are you so obsessed with me?”

I also like to quote the main character from the ancient boomer TV series The Wire: "the fuck did

I

do?"

[Malachai]

Kay, don't worry. It's my 2nd game here as well, so you should not treat my thoughts on you as very authoritative. And I think I never called you locked scum.

I simply feel that you avoid confrontation, try to look good and nice, call people town, see conflicts as TvT, target not active players who can hardly respond. I really disliked your criticism of RN in 602 and 605. And not just because I am in his slot now. He was an easy target as player here, his message to put it mildly was not ideal and was subject to fair criticism, but why would a town player of your style jump on him as you did? To prove that you are active and brave? Looked like a posturing.

What really stops me from pushing you is that you could have been in team with Roland (who was sus for me, but his slot went up on my scale) and I don't see you in team with Drew or Jackson (who are going down). And yes, you can be a newbie townie whose mislim would not give a lot in terms of overall picture.

For me, the reason I townread Kay so much is a combination of how involved she is / how much she's willing to post, and how willing she is to get involved in pretty much every angle being discussed. When JacksonVirgo showed up and started going through opinions on people, and Kay said something like "ohh do me!", that struck me as something a scum would NEVER say. They would never

enthusiastically

ask someone else to weigh in on their towniness; they wouldn't encourage it in the slightest.

FWIW Snow, I don't scum read you either, so with Kay I think you've just got the wrong read is all.

[Malachai]

Kay we could probably talk about lots of movies from the late 1900s!

[Malachai]

I'm against an NM elim

He isn't playing the game, why shouldn't we eliminate him?

I legitimately read Not Mafia as scum at this point. It is partially process-of-elimination for me, but I also just really do not like that he provides these reads and doesn't describe them at all. It's odd to me that anyone gives him credit for his reads when he gives us nothing about why he even has those reads in the first place. And the reads themselves, I just do not like...of course I'm naturally going to be a little biased since he calls me his scummiest read, but I think I can also pretty convincingly argue that having Gob as the towniest read at that point made absolutely 0 sense, as he did nothing to deserve being townread so strongly at that stage of the game. NM's choice to use a color spectrum means that he was indeed showing the degree to how much he supposedly believes each slot is town / scum, and even THAT is kinda weird to me, as I think it's pretty tough to have really confident distinctions between people instead of general buckets at this stage of the game.

If I'm wrong about Drew or Not Mafia, I think the next two up for me would be Snow / FancyPants, but I have yet to see anyone make a decent case to suspect either of them. Every argument I see is just based on feels, which none of us can relate to. Like this is how JacksonVirgo describes his read on Snow:

I believe Snow's slot is wolf, it started as being my null-consolidation vote as the game was stagnant but that increased to a steady scum-read based on how the game progressed when that started kicking off. Snow's posting in particular did not do anything for me, like it seemed to do for you.

I know I'm not asking him in that moment to really make a case, but obviously, if people aren't making arguments, using evidence that the rest of us can latch on to and such, it's obviously not going to be convincing to anyone. I feel like I can pretty easily put a finger on actions from both Drew and Not Mafia and describe to everyone here how they don't add up and how they seem indicative of scum behavior, and I find myself unable to do that for anyone else at the moment.

[Malachai]

And Jackson, what DO you listen to if you want to chill out?

I answered that? But here's one particular song



This song has been played so much lately, this performance version in particular.

BTW even this I would not listen to if I wanted to chill haha. This is still very much angsty spectrum for me. If I'm looking to chill, I'm listening to stuff like Cigarettes After Sex or Aphex Twin. (I'm also probably a hopeless hipster...former college radio DJ here, FYI lol)

[Malachai]

@Mod

: How is Not_Mafia playing to his win condition here? Serious question. There is a lack of consistency when one player is kicked while another isn't, you can't blame me for thinking it might be alignment indicative.

If you don't want me to draw such conclusions then be consistent and kick both players, not just one, for game throwing and playing against win con.

+1 on this sentiment.

[Malachai]

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[Malachai]

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And your explanations?

I'll provide explanations if I think it's appropriate

None of us can read your mind, so yeah, it's appropriate.

[Malachai]

I can only laugh at '

Not mafia hasn't breached any rules so far'.

That's truly insulting our intelligence.

You make a mockery of your own rules, and you threaten players who are actually contributing to the game while ignoring blatant game-throwing.

Solon, I think you had better retract your latest posts and apologize to the mod.

He doesn't need to apologize. Not Mafia is either going to flip scum, or Solon will be 100% right. I don't know how anyone could argue with a straight face that a town Not Mafia was playing to his win condition here.

[Malachai]

I kinda wanna cfd drew now for funsies.

Then why didn't you? I don't really think what Solon was doing was really a good reason to back off making a case.

I’m still on my phone and unfortunately probably will for today, but I’ve been considering all day if I want to townread snow for that 3-scum thing

What's the resolution on this?

[Malachai]

I’ll start. Snow > Fancy > NM

In lieu of just hearing the wagons, I'd like to hear WHY people have these wagons. I'd like to hear more about why you think Snow is so scummy.

[Malachai]

Can you be a bro and give me your preferences for the lim?

I'd like to hear Fancy first. I agree with some of his points and disagree with the others, but even if I disagree it helps my analysis.

If I had to decide now, I would probably think about Solon.

Why Solon? He is probably my towniest read at this point, given everything that just went down.

[Malachai]

Gonna take forever if we want to wait for every person to chime in with an answer here. Especially since Solon said he wasn't going to talk until something was done, and who knows how long that will be. We should be able to read and figure out who people want gone on our own.

Malachai: 1) Not_Mafia 2) Drew 3) FancyPants
Jackson: 1) Snow 2) Fancy 3) Not_Mafia
Snow: 1) Kay 2) Drew 3) Not_Mafia (though he suggested just now he might see a reason to move Solon up, but he previously had him as his towniest read)
Not_Mafia: 1) Not_Mafia (.....) 2) Drew 3) Jackson
Drew: 1) Malachai 2) Not_Mafia 3) N/A
GuyInFreezer: x) Not_Mafia x) Snow x) Drew x) FancyPants
Solon: 1) Not_Mafia 2) Snow 3) GuyInFreezer
Kay: Tie between Snow / Not_Mafia
FancyPants: 1) Snow 2) Kay 3) N/A

If I got any of those wrong, people are more likely to speak up when they can correct you on something instead of offering something up on their own But from what I glean from everything everyone has just said, this should be quite accurate.

Not_Mafia: 8 list appearances
Snow: 5 list appearances
Drew: 4 list appearances

That's your top 3. Seems clear who this town wants to vote out.

[Malachai]

Eh. The difference here is that I think there's a near 0% chance that Solon is scum, and his recent actions just reinforce what was already a strong belief for me in the first place. Whereas you can find plenty of reasoning to believe Not Mafia really just is scum here.

Leave matters of moderation to the moderator and leave matters of the game to the players of the game. With the exception of MAYBE Solon, I'm pretty confident that the rest of us are voting for Not Mafia because we do legitimately believe he is scum.

[Malachai]

This would suggest that a Snow / Not_Mafia team is entirely plausible.

[Malachai]

I was townie on Snow before, but his insistence on voting for Solon here feels very contrived to me and incredibly opportunistic. I trust that this situation is going to resolve itself without us needing to vote him out of the game.

FYI, if what he is doing is deemed unacceptable by the mod, he would probably be force-replaced, not killed. So whatever angle you are working that assumes he will be killed by the mod and that we'd have 0 mis-eliminations left if we missed wrong today, you really shouldn't be thinking that way.

[Malachai]

We have to make opinions and decisions here vis-a-vis other players and we base these opinions/decisions on various factors. We can agree or disagree in full or in part on these opinions, decisions or factors. I am fine with that. It's just a game. But to refuse to play with another player altogether and start a dispute with the mod in this way about it seems too much.

I might be wrong on mislim attempts or other things. I certainly don't insist that the others follow me. This is my personal decision, and I apologize if someone thinks it's inappropriate.

Solon - it's very easy for you to have this vote taken away, but this is your personal decision and I will respect it.

VOTE: Solon

Just to be clear: you do not think Solon is scum and you still townread him, right?

[Malachai]

That's E-1.

[Malachai]

I don't see how mocking other players is doing you any favors here. You mock Solon for a "dry and dilettante playstyle", you use demeaning language to insult Kay's approach to the game, and your reads lists are just your own way of teasing and mocking each and every player in this game however you see fit. I don't know why any of us should have to put up with this shit.

[Malachai]

Votecount 1.14

Votecount 1.14

Not_Mafia (4):

Not_Mafia, Solon, Malachai, JacksonVirgo

E-1

Malachai (1):

Doctor Drew

Snow2697 (1):

FancyPants

Solon (1):

Snow2697

Not Voting (2):

GuyInFreezer, KayJayQueue

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-03-13 05:56:04)

Mod Notes

None

VOTE: Not Mafia

If anything this is good for the game moving forward with no distractions

He is hammered.

[Malachai]

Truly the orange comb-over man of mafia.

[Malachai]

VOTE: Snow2697

[Malachai]

I'm voting almost entirely on this:

I expected more substance and attention from Fancy.

I am not sure if he could have offered more substance and attention than he did now. And the focus on a policy elimination is just bad. All signs are pointing that I should be going this direction with my vote.

[Malachai]

I’ll have desktop access in like 6 hours so let me put my last thoughts in before we end the day and I get nightkilled for being too town.

Honestly I really don't have a clue why you think you are "too town".

[Malachai]

I say this because I'm getting a bad feeling about GuyInFreezer after he keeps dropping some allusions to things he might talk about and push and then just....doesn't do them. It's starting to get really weird to me. I see FancyPants still has him as a scum read too and so I really do start to scratch my head over him at this point.

[Malachai]

I'm voting almost entirely on this:

I expected more substance and attention from Fancy.

I am not sure if he could have offered more substance and attention than he did now. And the focus on a policy elimination is just bad. All signs are pointing that I should be going this direction with my vote.

He called me scum, said that my comments are largely about style and "benefits" (you should have had very broad definition of "style" to do that), but admitted that he might have missed some of my posts (he actually did - at least on Kay and on player names in N_M lists). So, my comment is fair. Cannot see how this can be disputed.

You make it sound like you don't care about anything he said about anyone that isn't you.

[Malachai]

I'm also busy on weekends so no shade there.

However all those votes you made were for RVS, policy or inactivity - so it doesn't show me you are identifying scummy behaviour real or imagined.

That’s been where the general focus has been in general

Thanks, general.

[Malachai]

I'm also busy on weekends so no shade there.

However all those votes you made were for RVS, policy or inactivity - so it doesn't show me you are identifying scummy behaviour real or imagined.

It’s so sweet to have a tunnel, as an homage to me, in the forefront of your mind. You know it’s been said that when you go through a tunnel, if you hold your breath and make a wish, it’ll come true! Just thought you might try that to find the actual scum every time you drive through that Kay tunnel before posting here (:

If you read my summary post you'll see you're not my scummiest read nor am I voting for you.

You’re not voting me because the only people that would jump on that wagon are: snow - your biggest scum read which would make your argument against me seem pretty silly, and N_M who is trolling the game. Not the best allies, if you ask me.

I just don’t understand how all these reads on me equate to being scum. You seem to think if I don’t have a strong read, I’m bad? Blame these players for being so active, engaging and generally enjoyable. Whoever scum is, if it’s not RN-slot or N_M, are just a better player(s) than me. If I wasn’t trying to figure out the game, I wouldn’t waste all this time engaging. Believe what you want, but I’ll continue pushing back against it.

I get very townie vibes from this post especially, and I get very townie vibes from how often she's been here, her involvement in basically every major conversation in this game. She hasn't shown herself to be afraid of any conversations at all, and I have not once gotten the sense that she is trying to manipulate anyone or or steer the conversation in a particular direction, which would be very odd for a scum to do.

I think a scum read on Kay is barking up the wrong tree.

[Malachai]

Why would you think that a cherry-picked case was convincing?

[Malachai]

I should clarify: I'm referring to Snow's case on FancyPants here, and I think Snow is clearly cherry-picking the evidence.

By my count, FancyPants just posted 18 times with all of his reactions just now, and you choose to highlight one post where he gives just a gut feel. But there's plenty else in here where he is going into a lot more detail than that.

It just struck me as very telling to see him comment on nearly everyone here, on a great deal of interactions that didn't involve you, but your case on him initially was just based on him scumreading you and was only about you.

[Malachai]

Good good
Spew more of those for me so maybe I don’t die tonight

Why would you say this?

[Malachai]

Fancy said Kay was never voting. This is not true, she replied to this.
He said I am scum on far-fetched grounds. I replied to this. Seems like he simply missed at least some of my posts.
My point is clear and convincing. Shall I keep jumping on him?

With all due respect, it is our job to decide whether your point is "clear and convincing", not yours. And you don't need my permission to pursue a case on anyone.

Here you are essentially just sheeping Kay's defense of herself. What, then, of Fancy's response that her votes are generally RVS / on inactive people? Is that a valid point, in your mind?

[Malachai]

Good good
Spew more of those for me so maybe I don’t die tonight

Why would you say this?

Why would I not say this?

Because, if you're town, it's a clear tactical error on your part.

You don't say it, and scum reads what I said and thinks "hmm, maybe we should keep him alive so we can play this up"

You say this, and scum thinks "ah okay, that should be interpreted as trying to mess with us scum, probably fine to go ahead and off him".

If you think I was trying to defend you, you undid it by saying this.

[Malachai]

@Snow, don't change the subject, answer my question in post 1300.

[Malachai]

I can decide for myself on how I defend against an attack of someone who did not read my posts.

Sure. And I can decide that when a guy comments on all the major cases in the game, and you ignore all of those and only take interest in the ones that involve you, that's a scummy tell from you.

I agree with Fancy's response, but his case on Kay was that "finally you never vote". This is incorrect. Fancy's response just proves this.

You seem to be hung up on him saying "you never vote" which is clearly hyperbolic speech. It's harder to sort out if hyperbolic speech is truly scummy or if it's just town getting the facts wrong or perhaps just overconfidence, so that's not necessarily inherently a scum tell.

To me it just seems really hard for FancyPants to have faked what he did just now, and I think you are giving him far, far too little credit for what he did. I got through that and thought "this is very thorough, useful, and very difficult for scum to fake".

[Malachai]

Btw I thought I was going to be fine with eliminating N_M, but I keep getting cold feet over the fact that nobody actively tried to interact with N_M when he actually gave responses when asked.

That's not true. When he gave his reads, I asked him to explain them, and he pretty much just told me "no".

[Malachai]

I'll provide explanations if I think it's appropriate

Why did DownBad drop that low

Have been very underwhelmed by LaToya, looking back I think I was just reading gob's naturally obstinate nature as town

KayJay all of a sudden falling back on "uWu little old newbie me doesn't know what's going on" posting when we're actually trying to build a consensus and need to elim someone has them plummeting down my readslist

@GuyInFreezer

From what I can tell, these are the only two real "responses" / clarifications of his reads that he has delivered.

The first, "I'm underwhelmed by Jackson", what is there to reply to here? He's just delivering his opinion but didn't give us anything to latch on to, no evidence, no real case other than just his opinion. Like he wrote the thesis statement of his English paper and then decided to omit the body. It shouldn't bother you that nobody engaged with this.

The second is worded in a really insulting and off-putting way. It reads more like malice than an actual take. So again, I don't know why you'd wonder why it was left alone.

[Malachai]

@GuyInFreezer

If you actually wanted a flashwagon on Drew, you needed to have actually made a case for it. We aren't going to jump on a wagon just because someone asked us to.

[Malachai]

Please don't distort my posts. I don't scumread Fancy and he is still high on my list.

If you don't scumread Fancy, then what is your actual angle here?

[Malachai]

You read Fancy as town, you read Kay as scum, right? And Fancy is making a case for why he thinks Kay is scum, which you would support. So, given all of that:

1) What is the point of accusing Fancy's contributions of "lacking substance"
2) Why scrutinize what he's saying about Kay's votes, if you think she's scum anyway?

I just really struggle to understand why you are doing any of what you are doing right now.

[Malachai]

IMO Kay's voting simply illustrates my "lack of substance and attention" point. THis does not change my TR of Fancy and SR of Kay. I concur with Fancy here.

Great, so then what's the point of talking about it, if it doesn't change your reads?

[Malachai]

More specifically, what are you hoping to accomplish with what you are talking about here?

[Malachai]

Granted, I only asked him few questions, but he did answer all the questions I answered. Plus, I don’t personally think the N_M’s uwu newbie thing that offensive, but I can’t speak for others.

Re: Drew cfd, you missed my point. I made it obvious that it was a joke (I said for funsies after all), and my point was that Drew’s reaction to it was unnatural.

Okey den. Would you say you support a Drew elimination above any other today?

[Malachai]

More specifically, what are you hoping to accomplish with what you are talking about here?

You should ask yourself, not me. You have started this weird exchange, added a couple of moot points. If it brings us nowhere, it's hardly surprising.

I mean, my read of what you are doing is that you're causing chaos and / or saying things just for the sake of saying things. You town read Fancy, but you took it upon yourself to cast doubt on everything he just did. I don't see how doing so accomplishes anything other than mudding the waters, and I don't see how mudding the waters is anything other than scummy.

Feel free to explain how it isn't.

[Malachai]

I meant to say "muddying" but my phone didn't like that...

[Malachai]

I'm gonna need access to a PC to work through this one. I can't respond to all of that on my phone so my response will have to wait several hours.

But in short, I'd rather you not deflect back to me. You have a problem with what I said and how I said it, fine, I'll walk you through it when I get home.

I'd still very much like to know why you found it necessary to bring up a point like "FancyPants' contributions here are underwhelming" or whatever word fits best here, if you don't scumread Fancy and none of what he said just now changed that.

[Malachai]

It's nice position to start all this and then say "don't deflect back to me".
Certainly please take time, review and write what you think.
Just don't keep saying "Snow scumreads Fancy", "Snow thinks Fancy is scum", "Snow casts doubt on everything Fancy did" unless you can point precisely where I said that (I didn't). If upon your review you confirm that I did not say that, I can consider this episode to be settled.

I already conceded, quite a while ago, that you do not scumread Fancy.

I still don't understand why you brought up what you did, given that you do not scumread him. You can resolve whatever you like on your end, but I'm going to keep asking you this question until you actually answer it.

[Malachai]

Could we get a vote count, please?

[Malachai]

Since snow refuses to answer, maybe you can answer it instead, Guy: why would someone look at an analysis from someone they townread and try to shade the entire thing?

[Malachai]

Since snow refuses to answer, maybe you can answer it instead, Guy: why would someone look at an analysis from someone they townread and try to shade the entire thing?

Beats me. But why would scum do stuff like that blatantly while doubling down on his Fancy townread?

I don't know what is "blatant" here, how you're using the word. To answer why he might do it at all, it's because he scumreads Snow. Why does he put so much effort into it, well what's he supposed to do when he's under interrogation, say "you're right Malachai, I AM scum"? He wrote a post shading the whole thing but everything he said since then was to try and ward me off.

And he has not made me feel better about him at all, he redirects to me, he obfuscates the conversation... Look at how easily you answered this question right away, whereas I have to be like 30-40 posts in with him at this point and still he just will not give me an answer. I don't really see him doubling down on anything; I see him making things WAAAAY more difficult than they should be.

[Malachai]

I also just straight-up don't like him refusing to play to his win condition and taking the role of mod. It's the mod's job to remove a player if they are breaking the rules. Solon is still here, so we can safely conclude that the mod determined that he did not break any rules and thus Solon should not be knocked out of this game. He's using that whole situation as an excuse to not contribute meaningfully to this game and to be useful as town.

He's going to accuse me of "double standards" so I'll go ahead and say Solon was wrong to ask the mod to do something about Not Mafia.

So there you go, my stance is in full alignment, and I can safely declare that since not mafia is still in the game, the mod decided not mafia isn't breaking rules, so Solon should give it a rest. And by the exact same logic, since solon is still in the game, the mod decided that Solon isn't breaking rules, so snow should give it a rest.

[Malachai]

I honestly think it's some sort of language barrier affecting that. Because tone-wise it looks to me like none of y'all are trying to fake stuff. And Snow did say that English isn't his second language. And looking at the way he dealt with Solon, he looks like he's the type to get distracted by shiny things (or love diverting towards shiny things, if scum). As I said, I can't really explain exactly what's going on with his head, but I don't think, at the very least, he's lying about what he believes he said.

I don't think he's lying, either. It's the WHY behind it all that makes him look so scummy to me.

[Malachai]

Yeah those things should be discussed in post-game.

His vote is on Solon RIGHT NOW. This can't wait for postgame.

[Malachai]

He also said outright that he townreads Solon. So if Snow is town, that means he is actively trying to kill a townie, as town, in direct violation of his win condition, because he thinks it's his job to moderate this game instead of the moderator's job.

I'm sorry to bring it up and I'm risking getting myself in trouble by saying it, but I really don't see what other option I have here when he is actually voting to kill off a townie, purportedly as a townie himself. I believe 100% that voting for someone you townread could be accurately described as "bad play".

If we want to drop all of this once and for all, he should drop this vote and put it on someone he actually scumreads. But while he's got his vote on a townie, I think it's absolutely fair game to be discussed and SHOULD be discussed.

[Malachai]

FWIW I legitimately scumread Not Mafia when I voted for him.

[Malachai]

Oh you were saying "bad play" in a different way, I see.

I can very easily argue that voting for someone you townread is game-throwing.

[Malachai]

I mean NOBODY should be okay with his vote. He's voting for a guy he townreads. Is that not a problem in some way? Does that not go beyond simply "not being that good at mafia"?

I'm not asking for any moderation action; I'm asking snow to make his vote useful and convincing you all to help me encourage him to do so.

[Malachai]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

[Malachai]

Snow, all of your problem is solved by voting Not_Mafia.

I don't think he'd see it that way. If not mafia is gone, this "rulebreaking" Solon fellow is still in the game, right?

[Malachai]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

A vote purely decided by their opinion that the removal of a certain player is helpful towards the town win condition, despite the probability of mis-elimination.

Okay. I don't think Snow's vote here could be classified as a "policy vote", then, since he doesn't seem to think Solon is actually working against our win condition, Snow just thinks that Solon is not following site rules, and Snow is taking it upon himself to act as moderator. He clearly shouldn't be doing that.

[Malachai]

No, he shouldn’t.

This game has been hella weird, and out of my 10+ years of playing on this site, I’ve never seen a game like this ever lol

Like, how so?

[Malachai]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

BTW he's scum with JacksonVirgo, game is solved, thank you good night.

[Malachai]

Maybe this is a sign.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Malachai]

What's the issue?

You actually think a band like Infant Annihilator is worth listening to!

If you are into music with dark, post-apocalyptic themes that is actually transcendent and changed the face of music, then for fuck's sake listen to Godspeed You! Black Emperor. Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven! in particular is voted as the 19th greatest album of all time on rateyourmusic.com for good reason, and it is not filled with pretentious music snobs, it is filled with anyone who appreciates music, and thus if you appreciate those kinds of themes, then you should just listen to that and have your life changed.

I took a red-eye bus to Chicago to see Godspeed You! Black Emperor in concert in 2012. They played 4 songs in their 90 minute set and I swear to fucking god it was

THE GREATEST CONCERT I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

And at this point I've seen so many concerts that if I don't wear earplugs to them, my ears hurt because they can't take the volume anymore. Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who has seen Rush, Pearl Jam, even Bob fucking Dylan in my lifetime; I even once went to a concert headlined by both Foo Fighters and Red Hot Chili Peppers and the opening band was this up-and-coming band called MUSE and I'd still tell you that the Godspeed show I saw is the greatest motherfucking live show I've ever seen.

[Malachai]

Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target

Why am I always right when I don't want to be right

You weren't right. You voted to kill him.

[Malachai]

I was a Vanilla Cop, won't be town's biggest power but still a pointless elim based on playstyle differences and personal dislike.

Solon who is literally refusing to play the game for no valid reason would have been a valid policy lynch but he plays conventionally so he's being let off with it

KayJayQueue is scum, take that to the bank, he's used everyone letting him off with his "uWU silly newbie me" posting because "Not_Mafia mean silly cow man" as an excuse to quickhammer scot free

KayJayQueue + Doctor Drew scum team, quote me now, thank me later

Your antagonistic playstyle got you killed. And yet I know you won't learn anything from the fact that the way you played got yourself killed.

You all seem to think that the most important badge of honor for you being some great player of Mafia is that you are the one who correctly deduces who is scum and who is not, but in reality the best players of Mafia are the ones who don't get themselves fucking eliminated when they aren't even guilty of being scum in the first place.

You want to prioritize getting those killer insults in and feeling really great about yourself while you screw over your team, you just go ahead and do that, but pardon me if I think you're a poor Mafia player for doing it.

[Malachai]

Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target

Why am I always right when I don't want to be right

You weren't right. You voted to kill him.

I can't lie, that is a great point assuming NM isn't just trolling some more

Nobody cares, scum.

[Malachai]

Which of you and I do you think dies tonight, GIF?

[Malachai]

Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target

Why am I always right when I don't want to be right

You weren't right. You voted to kill him.

I can't lie, that is a great point assuming NM isn't just trolling some more

Nobody cares, scum.

You need to start playing in a way that you can accept when you are wrong......assuming you are actually town.

There is no benefit to shutting out someone's reads, even if you highly suspect that person to be scum.

If you are scum, you are playing too brash and should tone it back slightly(being brash can be useful as scum to an extent imo)

#AsktheDoc

I don't need advice on how to play, thanks.

And since you're bringing hashtags into this, let me say now how extremely disappointed I am that I don't get to use

#JusticeForRoland

[Malachai]

Seeing as how you clearly drove the guy to quit and caused him some sort of real-life breakdown, when all along you really are scum in the first place. I hope you feel great about yourself for that, Drew.

[Malachai]

If that's how you want to frame it, sure.

It's 1 am here, I sure hope that leaving my scum partner at 1 vote while I go unconscious for 7 hours and while another guy who has strongly implied he will finish snow off is around here and likely to pull the trigger does not somehow go terribly wrong!

You do need some help with math

Can you not be rude and just tell me what I supposedly got wrong?

You got the math wrong just as you pointed out how I had a spelling mistake

When a person says "you need help with math", they are making it personal when they insert the "you". My comment was on the comment; yours is about me, the person sitting in the Roland slot.

I apologize for what I said earlier when I said you, in particular, should be embarrassed about me flipping scum as I clearly crossed the line there. It's just you have done so too at this point.

You didn't seem to address this, Drew, which is why I ended up concluding that you're not the nice guy that you might claim to be. Want to address that now?

[Malachai]

I mean he made a legitimate point that you made it personal, plus he even gave you the olive branch of apologizing to you, and you didn't say anything in return. So yeah, knowing his real alignment, forgive me for white-knighting the guy and drawing my own conclusions from there.

[Malachai]

Well considering I was asleep when all that went down and when he repped out......when did I have the chance to address it or apologize?

In literally any of the time after you woke up. It's at least somewhat likely, if not very likely, that Roland is still reading the thread.

And I literally just said I would apologize if my words affect him in a negative way.

Honestly, I am so fucking sick of shit like this. "I will apologize IF I offended you". Own up, dude, and don't wait for some contingency of someone to tell you whether they were offended to acknowledge that you might have done some wrong. It should be enough for you to read the argument that he wrote and understand it as a legitimate argument and take action from there. People need to take more responsibility for their own actions.

Also, are you seriously using you think I am the worst human being in the planet as a reason to scum read me?

Come on dude, you are strawmanning my argument if you think I am portraying you as "the worst human being on the planet". I take issue with something you did and would rather you just own up to it and not add all these contingencies, but that doesn't mean I think you're "the worst human being on the planet". Roland made a legitimate point and it is already deserving of a response.

Either way, no, my scumread on you is not because of this. It's twilight so this is a good time to clear the air with shit like this.

[Malachai]

I was a Vanilla Cop, won't be town's biggest power but still a pointless elim based on playstyle differences and personal dislike.

Solon who is literally refusing to play the game for no valid reason would have been a valid policy lynch but he plays conventionally so he's being let off with it

KayJayQueue is scum, take that to the bank, he's used everyone letting him off with his "uWU silly newbie me" posting because "Not_Mafia mean silly cow man" as an excuse to quickhammer scot free

KayJayQueue + Doctor Drew scum team, quote me now, thank me later

My interest in the game seriously wanes when there is a player basically game-throwing for the whole of D1. It's the first time I've ever chosen to vote off someone who isn't my biggest scumread just to get them out of the game.

Good riddance to you.

Hi Solon, any quick reads before day ends?

[Malachai]

BTW this is helpful, especially point #6

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/im-sorry ... 6aac8cce67

[Malachai]

Drew, I apologize for taking that too far yesterday. Would very much like to hit the reset button on that one.

[Malachai]

I don't have a lot of fresh analysis this morning since that went pretty much exactly as I thought. I do want to point out that I did indeed try to save GIF yesterday by tossing some suspicion on him and hoping to muddy the waters a bit, but it was genuinely surprising to me when he said the quiet part out loud and made it obvious that I was doing so, which frankly did make me legitimately question whether I was even reading him right. Because he was early cashing in townie points instead of secretly accepting the dodge of a scum kill. Just to walk you all through that exchange, if you were interested in reviewing it.

Jackson, where was this depth of analysis yesterday?

[Malachai]

As for my vote switch on Not Mafia and my Ryan Reynolds frustration, that's entirely because I was disappointed that we probably weren't going to be clearing Drew's slot as a result of that vote. And I think I still believe Drew is my highest scum read at the moment. His slot felt a lot more like a significant positive achievement to clear, after which I felt like town would probably cruise to victory since I had such a small scum pool of Not Mafia and Jackson at that point. If Drew had flipped scum, I'd probably have just reverted to Not Mafia next and saved Jackson for last, knowing the resistance I'd encounter to convince everyone he was scum.

Also, at that moment when I voted for Drew and got irritated at whoever for switching to Not Mafia, I was feeling really good about a Drew / Jackson team, and there was a great deal of serendipity to support that. Not Mafia also read those two as scum, and Jackson defended Drew quite a bit. The fact that Jackson is a bulls-by-the-horns type of player just felt to me like he was opting for the "come on, I would not defend my scummate THIS hard" and he absolutely is 100% capable of pulling that off from what I can tell.

Obviously the scum team is NOT Drew / Jackson and I'm inclined to believe it is Drew. But I do have a little pause seeing Jackson's responses here, much more analytical and in-depth than yesterday, as if he is propelled into action by something (like being the last scum alive??)

[Malachai]

I'm on holiday so have limited access.

I'm a weak one shot town neighbour and I targetted guy in freezer, so unfortunately wasted my shot.

Why did you target GuyInFreezer?

[Malachai]

With this, my goal of "5 locktowns" has been achieved (Jackson, Malachai, Kay, Snow, Solon), so I no longer have to feel insecure about this game anymore and go back to being lazy bum.

And yes, I can hear Malachai screaming all the way from across the monitor.

@Solon

He had you as a "lock town" so why did you feel the need to tell him that you were?

[Malachai]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Votecount 1.14

Votecount 1.14

Not_Mafia (4):

Not_Mafia, Solon, Malachai, JacksonVirgo

E-1

Malachai (1):

Doctor Drew

Snow2697 (1):

FancyPants

Solon (1):

Snow2697

Not Voting (2):

GuyInFreezer, KayJayQueue

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-03-13 05:56:04)

Mod Notes

None

VOTE: Not Mafia

If anything this is good for the game moving forward with no distractions

He is hammered.

Just to switch gears a bit, I want to point out why it makes no sense to think I am scummates with Not Mafia here - that vote I cast on Not Mafia stayed on him all weekend long, when I trust players will be most active. But more importantly, I did genuinely believe that Drew's vote WAS a hammer, as you can see above. That means I legitimately thought that Not_Mafia was at E-1, and I didn't take my vote off him before what I thought would be his end.

Overall I would say JacksonVirgo and Drew are my scummiest reads here. Not sure I am on board with a Not_Mafia elimination, though I am not anything above null on that slot (that just means I'm not scumreading him either). I would say I'm very much not at all on board on eliminating Snow. GuyInFreezer is my top town read, and I feel townie about KayJayQueue, FancyPants, and Solon.

Also, wow, very strategically terrible move on scum!me's part to just go ahead and townread 5 people and leave my scummate in a pool of 3 potential scums.

[Malachai]

At the very least, obviously it would have made a lot more sense for scum!me to just read Snow as null in that moment, then I could have shoved Not Mafia out of my scum pool on the way to 3 mis-eliminations that win me the game.

[Malachai]

I still think a scum is in my top reads from D1 and one died, if it’s not Malachi I’m thinking Solon but Malachi feels so much better to me as a bunch of things are lining up specifically rather than just one argument I personally hold against Solon which is that he dropped off when he was getting townread as if there was no need to post. Which aligns with what a scum would feel.

Would you please go into detail about these "bunch of things that are lining up" so I can dig into how you've been led astray on me? I will of course be able to explain everything I did and said with logic and reason since these things have backed every single thing I have done in this game.

I also massively dislike Malachais retraction of the gob/jv read. It was incredibly jarring and I didn’t trust it for a moment but knew I had to wait to call on this feeling or it’d do more harm than good. I waited and hoped someone would respond before me so I can just wilfully ignore it for the moment but nobody did so I just made up whatever response I could to move on.

I don't know why you find it MASSIVELY jarring when I was clearly after you at the start. You can be disappointed that I changed my tune on you, but I don't think you can argue that it is MASSIVELY "jarring" for me to return to a read I had at the beginning of my involvement in the game.

Are you sure you don't just massively dislike me, because that's totally fine if you do lol. I deserve it. But I don't deserve a scum read for it.

[Malachai]

With this, my goal of "5 locktowns" has been achieved (Jackson, Malachai, Kay, Snow, Solon), so I no longer have to feel insecure about this game anymore and go back to being lazy bum.

And yes, I can hear Malachai screaming all the way from across the monitor.

@Solon

He had you as a "lock town" so why did you feel the need to tell him that you were?

My aim was to confirm him as town, not just to be confirmed myself.

Well this confuses me. How does it confirm GIF as town for you to tell him that you are town? The wiki for this role tells me that this role involves YOU giving info to OTHERS, not the other way around. The only way you actually get info about him is if you die, which is obviously useless to town and is something you later say here that you're wanting to avoid anyway. So I'm not sure I follow your thought process here.

[Malachai]

FWIW - Jackson's vote putting Not Mafia at E-1 was at 2:47 PM. Drew cast what I thought was hammer at 4:30. So that's two hours where I supposedly left my teammate on the verge of death and never took it on myself to help him out of it by moving my vote. And I WAS there, was aware at the time that E-1 had happened, and yet I just left him there.

Also odd to assume I'm his teammate and also know that I had lost track of the vote count around that time. Don't you think I'd be a lot more aware of the count if my own partner was on the verge of death?

[Malachai]

Anyway, gotta get to work.

[Malachai]

I guess I still scratch my head a little, because you said this:

I just wanted to make sure I didn't hit scum, as I didn't crumb my target beforehand.

You must have felt there was a decent enough chance that GIF was scum if you felt the need to check his role in this way. But that still contradicts with the general attitude you give in this quote here.

I mean I would have thought that a person would not be interested in using this role to check for scum alignments and that they would only want to use it to dissuade people of wrong reads. Like if I had your role and snow, for the sake of argument, legitimately scumread me, I'd for sure use my ability on him to get him to give it up. I townread him so I trust I'd not die.

I dunno. At this point I think I'll just listen to what others have to say about this before I come to a conclusion. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Malachai]

VOTE: Solon

I am just not buying it, I don't think.

[Malachai]

You don't seem to grasp that if I targetted scum I would be dead, and town none the wiser.

I originally targetted Kay, then changed to Fancy, then got cold feet last minute and changed to GIF. I'm on holiday, as I've said, and didn't have time to fully think through my last pick, I just wanted to make sure I didn't hit scum at that point.

It's not about the parts of it; I understand all of the parts. I'm just having trouble fitting them together.

I guess I don't see why you had the thought "I wanted to confirm if GIF was town" when essentially you have no actual way of doing so in a way that helps us.

[Malachai]

My thought process was basically this:

I'll check kay as she's prob town and Fancy suspects her. Actually, I'll check Fancy as he is potentially getting mislimmed if he's town. Then after glancing through a few of his posts I thought Fancy could be scum, and I changed my pick with an hour to go while travelling on the bus to GIF, who I thought was most likely town, who would be good to confirm as town nonetheless.

I realised soon after this that he actually might be the NK, but it was too late for me to change my pick by that point.

Okay. Knowing your thought process helps a lot.

I guess it would indeed be maybe unrealistically ballsy to kick off day 2 with a fake role claim. And if it were fake, that's probably going to become obvious when (if?) we all reveal our roles. So maybe it's just not today's problem regardless.

UNVOTE:

[Malachai]

Malachai dipped off, Snow actively avoided it which I considered Townie at the time hence my shift I was refusing to explain in the moment. Solon as a counterwagon is strange, but the alternative was NM who would have been their partner in a scum snow world. The pivot to Drew is awful but it would also explain why that happened to begin with. One of malachai and snow are wolves and we have the freedom to chop down both. I want to chop down both.

Frankly I am having a lot of trouble following your arguments and your thought processes.

It seems like so much of your reads are super heavily dependent on a town read of Drew. Doesn't that make you uncomfortable? Not even GIF considered Drew a townread, so what makes you so sure that he is?

[Malachai]

[Malachai]

I guess my thing with Solon is... He REALLY had it in for Not Mafia. Genuine irritation.

You could argue that he was genuinely pissed at his scummate, but IMO this all went down far too early in the game for things to have come to blows between them. Like that would have to be one UG-LY scum chat for him to be that genuinely upset with Not Mafia just halfway through day one.

The other possibility, then, is that he's faking the whole thing, but man he was so close to getting himself axed with what he was doing. I don't really buy that a guy puts himself on the line like that unless his feelings were genuine. I mean he even bashed the entire Mafiascum site... That doesn't seem like an act to me.

I scratched my head over his announcement but I feel like once I asked some questions and got answers, it felt to me like he was telling the truth. His overall thought process does make sense to me. If you're worried about targeting someone who could leave you dead, I can see why you'd choose an obvious target.

I'm off the Solon wagon unless someone's got a compelling argument otherwise.

[Malachai]

No longer want Snow, I dont think people are feeling Fancy rn

Are you still feeling Fancy? And I mean that in the literal sense, not in the "maybe I'll wear a suit" sense, just to be clear.

[Malachai]

Do I detect role-fishing?

VOTE: Gob

I declare that RVS is now over. Onwards!

So which part of Gob’s post was rolefishing?

Why u trying to play the otherside now?

You made your line in the sand FreezerGuy.

Also i am a cop with a gun. I check role alignmente and kill people.

His role claim quickly grew to absurdity. I'm not really taking it seriously.

[Malachai]

I just had a thought about Solon.

He claims to be a weak ONE SHOT friendly neighbor. So why did he feel any pressure to avoid choosing someone who was scum, which would cause him to die, when he could have just not chosen anyone?

Even if he wasn't one-shot, he's still not required to use his role at night. But the fact that he IS one-shot, then I really wonder, why is he feeling like he has to burn it so early? He sounded like he really didn't have a good sense of how he should use it, but if that were true, I would think he'd think "I will just save it for another night, then." He makes it sound like he needed to pick somebody when he never needed to.

The fact that he screwed up the name of his role is just icing on the cake.

I'm telling you something just doesn't add up here so I'm putting my vote back.

VOTE: Solon

[Malachai]

Snow I don't get your case on Kay. It seems dependent on whether a train on Drew would have actually worked and whether Kay thought it would work, but how can any of us know whether it could or not? I feel like you're basing this on something unknowable.

Can you maybe explain better what you mean? It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Malachai]

For real snow, I don't get your angle on Kay. You're saying, since she did not switch off her supposed teammate Not Mafia, that means she IS guilty? You're talking about me possibly convincing someone else to join the Drew wagon, and he goes to E-1, and you're saying if Kay then hammers him, then she's town? We don't have any idea yet what Drew's alignment is, so I don't follow that logic at all. You are totally on your own with whatever you're thinking here.

[Malachai]

No longer want Snow, I dont think people are feeling Fancy rn

Are you still feeling Fancy? And I mean that in the literal sense, not in the "maybe I'll wear a suit" sense, just to be clear.

I’m not, I think he looks the best regarding VCA

What is VCA?

[Malachai]

No. The point is that if Kay thought that you could have convinced someone (GiF?) to join the Drew wagon putting Drew at E-1, then scum!Kay would have waited for that and would have hammered town!Drew and would not have hammered NM. Why hammer her scumpartner if there are prospects to lim town? In this scenario there is almost no way Kay can be scum, so she is locked town.

I mean...there are tons of problems with the angle you are working here. But first and foremost, if Kay swaps a vote to Drew, no WAY that "locks" her as town. If the scum team were Kay and Not Mafia, why on earth would it lock Kay as town for her to hammer a townie like Drew? Your logic makes zero sense.

On top of that, Kay cannot possibly know what other players are going to do with their votes, regardless of her alignment. Kay being scum does not somehow endow her with some superpower of being able to read players' minds and know exactly how they are going to vote in this way or another, so I haven't the slightest clue why you are even entertaining an angle like this. You keep on arguing that Kay might have waited for a player to do this or do that, but the fact remains that there's no way Kay could have known what we were up to, no matter what her alignment is.

Finally, "Kay would have waited for someone else to vote Drew before she did"...why? Why couldn't she just immediately switch over to Drew whenever she feels like it? If we're still going along with this theory that Kay is endowed with super-scum-powers that allow her to predict what other players can do, if she had a hunch that another player was going to hop on Drew, what does it matter if she's the 4th or 5th vote on him, if she knows he's going down anyway?

There are just so many problems with everything you're saying here; it is total nonsense if you ask me.

If Kay thought that you could not have convinced anyone to join the Drew wagon, then the only lim option seems to be NM, so scum!Kay might have decided to hammer him herself to become more red. In this scenario Kay can be scum, so her NM hammer probably should not change a lot her status on my scale.

You are effectively saying, since there is a possibility that Kay could have just hammered her partner, she deserves zero credit for being town. It doesn't work that way. She maybe does not deserve FULL town credit just for that, but she does absolutely deserve town credit for hammering scum.

Why aren't you giving more consideration to all the other attention she has given to Not Mafia? She was on his case pretty much all of Day 1. You keep looking at the final hours of Day 1 and refusing to analyze the rest of the day and you squeeze in this odd analysis that is only a microcosm of what should matter when you evaluate Kay.

She cast a vote on Not Mafia on March 4th that she didn't remove until 3 days later. She otherwise posted all over the place how Not Mafia is at the top of her list. Her story throughout Day 1 is consistent in labeling Not Mafia and you as her top town targets and considering everyone else to be town. I don't think she wavered hardly at all in labeling Not Mafia as scum.

This is dependent on what Kay thought about the situation, which - as you have rightly pointed - is hard to assess.

If it is "hard to assess", then for heaven's sake, please stop using it as a basis for any of your reads on her.

[Malachai]

Her story throughout Day 1 is consistent in labeling Not Mafia and you as her

top town targets

...

I meant top SCUM targets here.

[Malachai]

Kay - I have explained my position on you above.
The reason why I townread Jackson from VC is that I think that he committed his vote to NM - something he would not have done as scum, since he would have reserved possibility to vote me or another town if there is opportunity.

And who gets to decide if "there is opportunity"? She had this exact same opportunity with Drew and didn't take it, and yet that's irrelevant to you.

Jackson would never have hammered his partner as scum, but Kay would have, to the extent that you give her 0 town credit for doing it? Do you not see how inconsistent your logic is here?

[Malachai]

I would like to add that nobody that receives a 1-shot FN will holster just because of the fear
of hitting a wolf. And with this power, chances are they use it ASAP. This entire post feels like it’s incredibly unfair towards solon and not pushing what actually should be pushed.

I don't see why. Why would someone be in a rush to use an ability they only have one of?

[Malachai]

@Jackson

Shouldn't you also give more consideration to how rushed Solon was in this moment? He's talking about being on the bus, having little opportunity to really evaluate things properly. Everything he said also suggests he really didn't have a strong sense of who he wanted to use this ability on. To me that suggests that the rational decision for him would have been to leave it alone for the night. I think you're giving him some credit he doesn't deserve.

I mean can you think of a worse way for him to use this ability, to use it on someone who already had him as a "lock town"?

[Malachai]

You are misreading me. I have never said that Kay hammering Drew makes her lock town.

Well then, I must be losing my mind, because that's exactly what you said right here:

Kay - if there was real chance to vote out Drew after GiF’s vote switch, then Kay is locked town.

There WAS a real chance to vote out Drew. She could have voted him to put him at E-1 and you admit yourself that there were other people willing to vote Drew. There was a "real chance", absolutely, 100% a "real chance" here, and you cannot convince anyone otherwise. The opportunity was there and the "real chance" was real indeed.

It is her hammering NM makes her lock town IF in her view there was still possibility of you gathering votes in Drew.

So, again, why even bother with a take like this, when she knows as well as the rest of us how likely it was that Drew would have been eliminated?

[Malachai]

In my view there is huge difference between Kay and Jackson.
Jackson effectively locked his vote into NM, thus limiting his ability to vote another player. Makes little sense if he is scum with NM.
Kay has not locked her vote into NM. Therefore additional analysis is required.

Well, you've made an attempt at that analysis and the results are extremely underwhelming. Time to move on.

[Malachai]

You should be looking at things that may actually hold water like why they chose who they did

That's exactly what I did at the end of post 1539.

[Malachai]

I don't think Kay was able to put Drew at E-1 where, as you say, she called me and NM scums. This would have put her under Drew's attack,

which a player of her style should avoid.

The bolded / italicized portion. Explain what you mean by that, please?

[Malachai]

I don't think Kay was able to put Drew at E-1 where, as you say, she called me and NM scums. This would have put her under Drew's attack,

which a player of her style should avoid.

The bolded / italicized portion. Explain what you mean by that, please?

Sounds like he thinks I’m so prone to avoiding conflict as my playstyle that even if I were scum, he thinks I’d rather eliminate my only teammate rather than get ire from Drew for putting him at E-1.

Well, are you?

I mean I really don't think you are, but I'll let you answer that one yourself.

[Malachai]

Can anyone giving me a good reason to townread Snow?

Not me. His attitude of refusing to see anyone else's point of view is very anti-town.

[Malachai]

Oh no, Kay discovered Drew's onlyfans account....

[Malachai]

I think Snow has earned a stay of execution at the very least.

I'd much prefer a Not_Mafia elimination as that slot is never going to be readable for anyone, and will be a liability with the ever-present possiblity of a lolhammer whenever someone is one vote from the chop.

If this was a bus, this was an incredibly early and proactive bus. Ultimately I think it is TOO early to consider it a bus.

I should probably just listen to Jackson and stop considering his role actions as unlikely as I thought they might have been.

Meanwhile, Snow is playing incredibly anti-town right now, more than anyone else, so he gets my vote.

VOTE: Snow

[Malachai]

GIF/Kay/Jackson - potential scum: a few things off here I'll explain my thoughts if anyone wants to know.

I would like to hear your explanation for all three of these reads.

[Malachai]

No longer want Snow, I dont think people are feeling Fancy rn

Are you still feeling Fancy? And I mean that in the literal sense, not in the "maybe I'll wear a suit" sense, just to be clear.

I’m not, I think he looks the best regarding VCA

I actually don't follow why you think an analysis of votes is so favorable for FancyPants. He voted for Random Nurse, IE before he was even replaced by Snow, and didn't cast another vote after that. Why does a dearth of votes look favorable, especially so favorable to change your read on him?

[Malachai]

He had his vote parked almost the entire time NM was under any form of heat. He didn’t move it, he didn’t commit to a bus and he didn’t actively try to protect NM. There’s no agenda behind his votes.

Then he should look neutral at best. You said that he looks the BEST based on the vote analysis, and I definitely don't agree with that. If you're focusing on vote analysis in particular, I would think the ones who come off the BEST would be whoever proactively started on Not Mafia.

If you look at FancyPants' language around Not Mafia, he just leaves him as null and says "we can do better". In retrospect, that really doesn't look good.

[Malachai]

If you’re not able to seperate these things, then I can understand why you fail to see this.

"You fail to" is not helpful language. Keep the focus on the argument.

If people can look both good and bad when they vote for scum, how is an analysis of vote count even useful at that point? It's like the saying goes: when everything is important, nothing is important. Scum absolutely do vote for non-scum all the time; there's no one true way in which people play scum.

And the point about what he said about having NM null is naturally a point of its own merit so there's not even a reason to say what you said above.

[Malachai]

Anyway I'd love for FancyPants to actually participate...

[Malachai]

V/LA until Monday

If at any point you could pop in and just give your current read on who you think is scum that would be awesome.

Without having read anything today apart from comments aimed at me, I think eliminating Snow, FancyPants and Drew in any order wins the game.

I think at last we understand one another, Solon Baggins.

[Malachai]

At any rate, it really doesn't matter if Jackson convinces anyone to waste an elimination on me after we knock out snow (which we should... For sure I think there's a good chance we hammer snow here and it's just gg). But in the event that it is not gg, Jackson will want me next, and if he gets his way, we do still get 2 mis-eliminations anyway, and seeing me flip town will force him to finally consider the rest. He seems pretty locked in on Drew, Solon, and Kay being town, so naturally I would think that if he were a last town standing and FancyPants were there, he'd know what to do.

So whatever. I think we're fine even if you want to waste more effort convincing me it's not FancyPants.

What are you trying to convince me of anyway, Jackson? Obviously I know that if it's not snow, it isn't me. "Malachai, I just don't think that Drew, Kay, Solon, OR FancyPants are guilty, so please won't you consider my next suspect, Malachai?" lol. If you really think the suspect is me, maybe you ought to spend your time arguing why you think I'm guilty, instead of trying to view others through a lens in which they aren't.

[Malachai]

I should take a break until night and can be hammered in between. So, this is my will (it's not binding of course).
Jackson - Solon - Fancy are the towniest players on my scale. I see skepticism about Fancy and Solon. So, I would stick to town!Jackson and follow his position if in doubt. If he decides to lim me, OK. This makes sense from town standpoint, I am at handicap due to RN play and will be suspicious forever, so this may clear the picture and help town focus on real targets. I want town to then look at Malachai - Kay - Drew in that order. If Jackson sees Kay as locked town, I do not mind. She should not be pressed without reason, I don't think she would be able to hold her ground against a large-scale attack. Drew still requires scrutiny.

I am tops on your list all the sudden? Should I be proud of this? I feel a little proud of this.

[Malachai]

FancyPants has yet to show up, and the past few hours were the only window in which he typically makes an appearance. Towel thrown in?

[Malachai]

You argue against me, I try and level with you and then you make a post essentially shitting on me.

How is it "shitting on YOU" to argue that your reads on FancyPants and myself are wrong? Why are you taking this personally instead of understanding that I think your views are just incorrect?

[Malachai]

For what it's worth, I did read all of the input. I just think it's misguided and I don't see a need to engage with it or address it at this point in the game.

The way I see it, I can either try and argue FancyPants' perspectives and why

he

did what

he

did, or I can argue why

I

did what

I

did. Obviously the former is really not my place to argue, and the latter definitely is. That's why I see it as a pointless exercise at this point to even talk about your reads on him.

I do want you to change your mind, so have at it. Why do you think that

I

am guilty?

[Malachai]

But again I should add that I mostly do this out of boredom. For real you could just go ahead and eliminate me tomorrow and, if you were still alive, you'd still end up in a place where you'd see me flip town and would still be left over with FancyPants, and at that point it seems to me like you'd come to the right conclusion about his alignment.

[Malachai]

We may as well just eliminate snow and see if it's even necessary for him to catch up.

[Malachai]

Jackson should just hammer and we can reconvene when Solon is back and Fancy can be present if Snow turns out to be town.

[Malachai]

DM me if you want answers.