Mafia 48: Himalayan Mafia - Game over!

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, this whole line of reasoning is going to involve a lot of WIFOM speculation, but with no other obveous point to start reasoning from, it's as good a starting point as any, and probably better then mindless random voting.

So, hrmmm...if the mafia were to recruit the best/most experenced player, it would probably be either LML or Mr. Flay, IMHO. Another possibility is that they may have wanted to recruit Fritzer, just because with his normal playstyle he can be a very effective, agressive scum without getting lynched for it; or they might have wanted to go for someone with a lower profile who can fly under the radar for a while.

[Yosarian2]

From the mod rules:

You are in the

Mafia

, intially composed of X, Y, and Z. You may communicate with them each night to determine someone to kill. (I will take the first choice sent to me by any mafia.) You must kill each night. You win when the town no longer has a majority.

No need to confirm, by reading your PM I know you're around and ready. However, note that your Night 0 choice is for a townie to

recruit

, not to kill.

Night 0 (last night), the mafia was allowed to recruit one person instead of killing. From now on, they will kill each night instead.

[Yosarian2]

I think even trying to figure out who the mafia would recruit is a waste of time.

Perhaps - but it's a fabulous way to jump in and discuss the game, right as the game starts, instead of 46 rounds of random votes. Of course, there will be participants like Cesspit who fear sticking their toe in the water... mmmm.

And I think it is useful; for instance, RandomActs pointed out that JamesSparrow joined the game soon after opening, which pretty much clears him from being the recruit.

WHAT? Would you ever think, for a minute, that the mafia may recruit someone who is a new iplayer BECAUSE the town will be more likely to kill off the "higher profile" players? Both Sparrow and the gentleman that he replaced were BOTH new, therefore. IMHO, being BETTER choices for the scum to recruit.

I agree with you that the comment dosn't make much sense, but why are you attacking DG for agreeing with this comment, but not Random Acts for saying it in the first place?

[Yosarian2]

Oh! Thanks Neon. In my quick scan and observation of the bandwagon, I must have missed it.

Yos makes a good point. The post by Random Acts:

unvote

I think Fritz is the most likely recruitee. I'm guessing JamesSparrow the least likely, simply because he joined the game so soon before the opening.

Deserves the same castration as DG's...

However, the evidence against DG is much greater. I will, instead,

FoS: Acts

and keep my vote on DG.

Ok. I was just wondering about the selective treatment, was all.

I didn't think DG's first post was scummy; the "who could have been recruited" thing is a perfactly valid line of day 1 speculation, and while him picking HezLucky seems a bit wierd, I suppose that's all a matter of opinion.

Since then, he has said some slightly suspicious things, but not enough to make me want to join the bandwagon at this time.

[Yosarian2]

Once again, speculation about who the recruit does not generate valuable information in my opinion.

1- It totally depends on the makeup of the mafia themselves. 3 new players will pick someone different than 3 experienced players or a mixture in between.

2- The person who would never be recruited, could have been mafia in the first place, so eliminating the fact they couldnt be recruited is meaningless since they were the ones recruiting.

On the other hand, if we come to the conclusion that person X might be a logical person to be recruited, then it's just as likely that X was in the origional mafia is it would be that anyone else was in the origional mafia, and if it's slightly more likely that X would be recruited if a townie, that would make it a lynch with at least a marginally better of success then a random lynch, which isn't bad for a day 1 lynch with no info.

Perhaps more importantly, who speculates that who might be a recruit, and who disagrees with that (or starts to disagree with the whole process of speculation), might prove useful to look back at later.

[Yosarian2]

My head is big (I suffer from cyanomegaencephalon) but my brain is tiny.

I don't get HezLucky's logic. Can someone explain it to me as if I were a tiny infant drooling on his bib?

There's a scum tell some people like to use that say someting like "If person A FOS's person X and Y in the same post, or votes for person X and FOS's person Y in the same post, then if person A is scum, then one and exactally one of person X and person Y must be scum."

If Tidus does turn out to be scum, then I would suspect one of the people he FOS's is most likley a scum buddy he's trying to distance himself from.

[Yosarian2]

Well, if we're doing lurker-hunting (and I think lurker hunting is probably a very good idea; we need to keep everyone participating if we're going to find the scum) then

vote:creampuffeater

. He's only posted twice; he first post he just voted for DG for "disagreeing with Fritz", and his second post didn't really say much of anything.

[Yosarian2]

rofl, i can't believe it took until the bottom of page four for anyone to notice my post, which was in fact designed to MAKE people notice me. Unfortunately, I went on spring break on Friday, and I haven't had much time to check Mafiascum, so I was unable to post until now. I'm glad that my action helped to get the discussion going, though. Much better than a random vote. I think I'll start doing that in every large game

So...your plan was to act really scummy in order to get everyone talking about how scummy you were?

Anyway, creampuff's posting more now, so

unvote:creampuff

[Yosarian2]

Yeah....MoS has now posted twice, but still hasn't offered any kind of analysis, or suggestions, or any real content. If you're "back from spring break" or whatever now, MOS, I'll give you a day or two to catch up, but if you haven't started posting a lot more then you have so far this game, and started posting some real content, I'll be glad to join the bandwagon on you and push for your lynch, especally as the other two people I considered to be lurkers, Dead Rikimaru and creampuff, have started to post a little more now.

[Yosarian2]

MOS: If you're not going to lurk, could you perhaps comment on some things that have happened so far in this game and actually help us find scum?

So far, we've:

Had a discussion on who might be most likely to be recruited night one

Had a mid-sized bandwagon on DG that died down

Had a bandwagon on tidus

And a few other people were voted for different reasons.

Could you perhaps comment on at least some of those things, let us know what you think about the tidus and/or DG, or tell us who you think looks scummy, or disagree with someone, or something? I mean, you are posting more now, but you still haven't done anything that looks even remotly like an attempt to figure out who the scum might or might not be.

[Yosarian2]

Some people claim suspicion of tidus_of_zanarkand. HezLucky uses bad logic to try and prove my guilt. Yosarian2 states a bandwagon on myself when I have only had one vote the entire game.

Ok, that's true. I guess it wasn't really a bandwagon. There were several other people who said they were suspicious of you, however.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get MoS to comment on SOMETHING. If he doesn't, I will have to vote him.

[Yosarian2]

Thank you, MoS.

Yeah...I had kind of a bad feeling about Tidus's last post, as well. Most of it was just kind a wierd summery of the whole game, but this part was especally odd:

LoudMouthLee stated a new bandwagon to pressure MastermindofSin. Many people jump on rapidly. MastermindofSin contributes nothing to the conversation other than saying he was acting scummy to raise conversation.

My scum List: MastermindofSin, LoudMouthLee, HezLucky

Right now I think MastermindofSin isn't saying anything because he knows he's been caught and is trying to wait the town out. The alternative is he is town and isn't contributing in any useful way and got called on it.

I'll stay voting MastermindofSin for right now until someone convinces me otherwise.

The comment about "MOS knows he's been caught and is trying to wait the town out" is rather odd, but the thing that bugs me the most is the "scum list".

Tidus, why are you saying that you think MOS is scum, AND you think LML is scum for starting a bandwagon on MOS? And why did you put "HezLucky" on your "scum list" without giving any kind of reason at all?

[Yosarian2]

Tidus: I asked you

why

you were suspicious of LML and espeally of HezLucky. You still have not answered my question.

[Yosarian2]

(waits) (twiddles thumbs)

[Yosarian2]

Heh...yeah, that's about what I thought.

vote:Tidus

[Yosarian2]

It is interesting to note that, when I demanded he participate and asked for his imput on several issues, MoS chose to put together an attack on Tidus that helped get him lynched; Tidus did have a little suspicion on him before then, but not that much. It could be a WIFOM kind of thing, but I'm not really feeling this MOS bandwagon right now.

[Yosarian2]

I actually thought I was putting the hammer on tidus yesterday, but it looks like my vote switch didn't count. The fact that he cracked so easily could mean we're dealing with an overall newbish group of scum; that of course would increase the likelihood of an experienced player being recruited.

No vote yet.

Well, Tidus was clearly a newbie, but how does the way he broke under pressure tell us anything about the characteristics of the rest of the scum group?

[Yosarian2]

Well, Tidus was clearly a newbie, but how does the way he broke under pressure tell us anything about the characteristics of the rest of the scum group?

I don't think it tells us much of anything. They might all be newbies. The others might be experienced, but not the sorts that give a bunch of advice on how to play scum effectively. Or tidus might just not have been the sort to ask for that advice, or to have used it effectively. My first time playing scum, I was teamed with Leonidas (later replaced by Dragon Phoenix) and bloojay (replaced by Captain Blicero). I asked all of them for advice, most of which was quite good, but still ended up making the fairly elementary error of trying so hard to keep the town from lynching me that I made an excellent night target for the other scum team.

Right. Especally as, based on the mafia PM in the mod post, the mafia can't talk during the day; and on a night zero when the scum can't kill, they're not likely to talk much anyway.

I just want to understand Mr. Flay's logic here; it bothers me a little when the most experenced player in the game tries to imply that the scum are probably all new players, so I would like him to explain his logic here.

[Yosarian2]

vote:TSAGod

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) A couple of reasons. WIFOM if used properly isn't always scummy, but I think that just waving the WIFOM wand to make internally logical arguments you don't like just vanish has become so overused and cliche it's become an easy tool for scum to abuse. I was actually a bit suspicious of Fritz already, and when TSAGod defended Fritz that way, it made me go back and take a closer look at his earlier posts.

So I went back to look at what he's done so far this game, and he's really done almost nothing. 5 posts;all short, saying nothing contraversial, noting that really looked like an attempt to find scum, nothing really useful. The only thing of any significance at all he did was be attack The Cesspit for the "trying to look pro-town" comment, and that was after logictics had already pointed it out.

TSAGod's not lurking, but he's not really doing anything either; at least, not until he defended Fritzer.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Personally, like I said, I'm a little suspicious of Fritzer, but even if Fritzer's not scum, TSA looks bad; if Fritzer is scum, TSA looks worse.

I don't see any particular problem with Twomz's pressure vote; I place often votes to generate pressure even if I expect to change bandwagosn eventually. Perhaps he was oversharing a bit by saying it was a pressure vote, but meh, pro-town people tend to overshare more often then scum do.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, all kidding aside, wouldn't that make Fritzler the lynch for today and TSA maybe tomorrow? I guess it doesn't matter either way, they're either scum or not, just trying to make sure I understand your analysis there.

TSA's defense of Fritzer was what origionally got my attention, but the main reason I'm voting for TSA right now is because of the way he's been flying under the radar.

[Yosarian2]

But people dislike immaturity and lack of content.

Hm...this statement is incredibly ironic....coming from fritzler.

Were you planning on responding to the votes on you in any way?

[Yosarian2]

Um, sorry if it was unclear, but that question was actually directed to TSAGod. I voted for him, and then he lurks for days and then posts a 1 line pointless joke post and ignores the votes on him. I was asking him if he intended to actually respond to the votes on him or not.

[Yosarian2]

Interesting.

fos:LML

I'll give him a chance to defend himself before I jump on this bandwagon, as this bandwagon is moving fast, but I've got to say I like some of your points there.

[Yosarian2]

I'm FOSing instead of voting because

I don't like lynching without giving the lynchee a chance to respond, so let's try to slow this one down a bit, please.

[/i]

[Yosarian2]

[quote="LoudmouthLee"]

Sir. Without sounding arrogant, I have a title next to my name. Wouldn't it make sense, in hindsight, for a rookie scum to START ATTACKING the guy who's listed as the paragon of Mafia Hunters? C'mon now. He was scared of me and began to attack me.

...

If he was scared, why would he suddenly pick a fight with "the paragon of Mafia Hunters", when you weren't even voting for him?

Now, i do agree that the speed of this bandwagon is worrying, which is part of the reason I'm holding my vote for now, but I don't think that proves the wagon is scum driven; I've seen bored townies do the same thing.

That being said, the way DGB was pushing for a speed lynch is suspicious, especally if LML does turn out to be town.

[Yosarian2]

No. There's nothing I really can do to defend myself other than posting with logic and being productive. I don't expect you to unvote me simply because I said so, so I didn't pretend to give a reason.

TSA said this on tuesday, that he intended to "post more logic and be productive", but since then, the only post he's made was a brief post with a "sheep" vote following the LML bandwagon and with no logic of his own.

I've really got a bad feeling about TSA, and he still hasn't done anything to change that. I think I'm going to still leave my vote there for the moment.

[Yosarian2]

Well, we're heading for a deadline, and it seems like no one else is going to follow me to TSA right now, so I guess I'll join one of the bandwagons that might have a better chance to go somewhere today. I still really think we need to hear more from TSA, though, and if he dosn't start participating more I'll probably vote for him again tommorow.

(shrug) Anyway, based on my current gut feelings, out of the top 4 bandwagons, the 2 bandwagons I like the best are the Fritzer bandwagon and the Pooky wagon.

unvote:TSAGod

vote:Pooky

[Yosarian2]

At this point, the main reason I'm voting for Pooky is just because I have a bit more of a gut feeling against him right now then I do against LML right now; LML has seemed to act in a slightly more pro-town way so far this game. Nothing very strong, though. If you've got an idea of a better target lynch target, Pooky, or anyone else for that matter, I'd be glad to hear it.

[Yosarian2]

unvote:Pooky

vote:dripping Goofball

[Yosarian2]

Who was looking for lurkerscum? I think one just showed up.

That is a simple lie. I am certanly not a lurker. Calling me "lurkerscum" just because I'm voting for you is just plain scummy.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, there are a few reasons I changed wagons. As I said earlier, I never really had a strong reason to be on the Pooky wagon in the first place, except that I liked it slightly more then the LML bandwagon, and Pooky has been making stronger arguments the DGB. Secondly, I found it very interesting that in a 3 way race, Pooky was the vote-leader for so long, while the whole time he only had 1 or 2 votes more then both DBG and LML. If Pooky was scum, then as the deadline got close, I would have expected scum to find an excuse to push one of the other bandwagons ahead; it would have only take 1 or 2 votes; but instead Pooky just sat there being lynchbait without any real movement on either of the other two bandwagons.

And as soon as DGB looked like she might be lynched, Random Acts comes out of nowhere and votes for LML instead...interesting...let me look back at his posting record.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...Random Acts has lurked pretty hardcore, and FOS's tidus but never voted for him.

Yeah, I think a RA-DGB scumgroup seems quite possible, with the way RA suddenly showed up to push the LML bandwagon once DGB was in danger, but just lurked up until that point.

[Yosarian2]

Nothing to do if you agree or disagree with me, RA. It was more that, when I voted for DG, I was thinking that if DG was scum, that if it looked like she might get run up, her scum partners would probably suddenly jump in and back one of the other bandwagons to try and protect her. That was the behavior I was looking for. In fact, that was why I voted without giving a reason right away, was because I wanted to see how people would react.

[Yosarian2]

Nothing to do if you agree or disagree with me, RA. It was more that, when I voted for DG, I was thinking that if DG was scum, that if it looked like she might get run up, her scum partners would probably suddenly jump in and back one of the other bandwagons to try and protect her. That was the behavior I was looking for. In fact, that was why I voted without giving a reason right away, was because I wanted to see how people would react.

I stated my reason for voting. It's not about protecting anyone in particular. It's about people running up bandwagons for no good reason. It's a simple explanation, and not nearly as finesed as your covoluted scheme. I think you're being too clever by half, Yos. Frankly my reason for voting has much more plausibility and than your over-zealous suspicions. In tetrospect, your defense of LML is duely noted.

(shrug)

Of course, if LML is scum, those who supported other bandwagons, including me, look more suspicious, and vice versa. Right now my primary goal is trying to generate information for later based on voting patterns. If DG turns out to be scum, then your vote might be an attempt to save her, or it might just be unlucky timing on your part. We'll see.

[Yosarian2]

Indeed, we shall see. But your inclination to prematurely assign a scum label to someone who happens to disagree with you stinks of overplay, imho.

Lots of people disagree with me. That's irrelevent. The reasons you gave for voting are also mostly irrelevent, as the key factor isn't the reasons you gave for voting, it's the timing.

What I have done is noted a possible connection between you and DG, and also noted that you have not contributed much this game, and that your FOS on Tidus without a vote or an argument against him also looks suspicious. If you want to disagree with any of those points, go ahead and do so.

[Yosarian2]

Timing trumps reasons?? Interesting. Sorry, I guess I'm in a different time zone than you are. But whatever timezone I happen to be in, reasoning will always stand taller than that intangible concept you call "timing."

(shrug) Reasons are easy for scum to invent if necessary. If I wanted to, I could invent a plausable sounding reason to vote for almost anyone. When it comes down to it, the best scum tell, IMHO, is "who voted for who, and when?" The timing can be key; when would you think a scum would jump on a scum bandwagon? When would a scum try to save his scum-buddy, and when would he stab them in the back? The answer, very often, is based on exactally when the vote happened, what the game-state was, and how likely it appeared at that moment in time that the vote would have an effect on the eventual outcome of the bandwagon.

[Yosarian2]

Honestly? I had no idea. I'm not in Lights Out, and the idea of you trying to concoct a lynch-managing voter block didn't even cross my mind. The fact that you tried to do it in two games at once, apparently, and turned up town in the other one, doesn't give me any confidence in your pro-townness here.

More then two games, actually; take a look at Speedy's current Big New York game, for example.

I don't think the whole "huggle alliance" behavior is especally helpfull, but it is consistant across several games so I don't think it's really much of a scum tell.

[Yosarian2]

More then two games, actually; take a look at Speedy's current Big New York game, for example.

I don't think the whole "huggle alliance" behavior is especally helpfull, but it is consistant across several games so I don't think it's really much of a scum tell.

I'm going to start making a list of people still dumb enough to think being a member of the HA actually affects how you play. Seriously, you guys were stupid enough to believe it once, don't make this mistake again.

List:
XGreyJoyX
Yosarian2[/quote]

...again, I never commented one way or the other about that, just pointed out that this was normal for Pooky.

I should start making a list of people who like to pretend I said something completly different from what I actually said.

[Yosarian2]

(bah...tags)

More then two games, actually; take a look at Speedy's current Big New York game, for example.

I don't think the whole "huggle alliance" behavior is especally helpfull, but it is consistant across several games so I don't think it's really much of a scum tell.

I'm going to start making a list of people still dumb enough to think being a member of the HA actually affects how you play. Seriously, you guys were stupid enough to believe it once, don't make this mistake again.

List:
XGreyJoyX
Yosarian2

...again, I never commented one way or the other about that, just pointed out that this was normal for Pooky.

I should start making a list of people who like to pretend I said something completly different from what I actually said.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...awesome.

vote:RA

It's possible RA is just an innocent misguided townie who jumped on the wrong bandwagon at the wrong time, but like i said yesterday, the timing of the vote makes it seem very likely that RA was trying to de-rail the bandwagon. The timing of RA's vote, and the way he walked right into the trap I set, was part of the reason I was so happy with a goofball lynch yesterday in fact. Doesn't 100% prove he's scum, but I think he's more likely to be scum then not.

On another note, Twomz, where did you come up with your list of "possible scum"? What's that based off of?

[Yosarian2]

Crap. Looks like I was wrong about RA. Eh, it seemed like the best lead we were going to get yesterday; it probably would have been better if the day would have lasted longer, but after the unlucky timing of his vote the day before I can't imagine anyone else would have been lynched yesterday.

Still, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Yosarian2]

ALSO I DO NOT LIKE YOSARIAN HE SHOULD NOT MAKE IT TO THE END.

Right, when I first helped put pressure on Tidus day 1 by asking him a series of agressive questions, and then I switched my vote from Pooky to DGB day 2 at the moment when Pooky was the vote-leader before I switched, and DGB would have been lynched afterwards. I was wrong about RA, but I played a pretty major part in catching the first two scum. So why is it you "don't like me"?

[Yosarian2]

Yes, this was made at a crucial time, with no explanation, no less, which is a point in your favor. The unnerving part, however, is what you say very soon after, in your discussion with RandomActs...

(shrug) Reasons are easy for scum to invent if necessary. If I wanted to, I could invent a plausable sounding reason to vote for almost anyone. When it comes down to it, the best scum tell, IMHO, is "who voted for who, and when?" The timing can be key; when would you think a scum would jump on a scum bandwagon? When would a scum try to save his scum-buddy, and when would he stab them in the back? The answer, very often, is based on exactally when the vote happened, what the game-state was, and how likely it appeared at that moment in time that the vote would have an effect on the eventual outcome of the bandwagon.

This looks like you're trying to set up yourself to look very, very good, knowing full well all you have to do is be the last one alive to win. Throwing your partner under the bus wouldn't be beneath you. This is particularly noteworthy, givn the fact that the rest of the game while significant conversation has gone on, you've really said very little about the game state, and preferred to hunt lurkers when important things are happening, notably when badguys are being run up.

First of all, the bandwagon I started on TSAGod day 2 was not a "lurker hunt". I had very good reasons for being suspicious of TSAGod, above and beyond his lurking; his defense of Fritzer made no sense and seemed rather suspicious to me. He (and therefore, you, his replacement) is still high on my list of suspects.

Secondly, I have no idea what you're talking about with that stuff about me "trying to set myself up to look good". I figured out that the Pooky wagon was not a good one because of the timing; with the deadline coming up, the Pooky wagon was still 1 vote ahead of the others, and I figured it would have been easy for the scum to come up with a good reason to switch and lean on one of the other two bandwagons and push them to a lynch if they wanted to. Because of that, I figured the scum probably wanted Pooky lynched, and so I switched to a different bandwagon I decided I liked better. And then, right after I did, someone else came up with a good reason to switch to LML's bandwagon. Granted that in that case, RA was just a townie who had the bad luck to place his vote at a moment when it looked bad; still, I think my reasoning was solid, it did catch one scum, and I stand by my statement that in a situation like that the timing of votes gives more information then the reason people gave for voting. So what is your problem with my logic, exactally?

[Yosarian2]

After a re-read, my primary suspects are TheCesspit (mostly for his day 1 interaction with Tidus, and his day 1 defense of DGB), and neongrey (who hasn't really done much this game, and who's jump onto the LML bandwagon day 2 seems suspicious).

vote:neongrey

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) At this point, I think I would be ok with lynching either one.

[Yosarian2]

Neongrey: one of the main reasons I'm voting for you was your jump onto the large and rapidly growing LML bandwagon on day 2 without giving any reasons of your own; as I tend to think LML is most likely a good guy at this point, this makes you look bad. Care to explain your reasons for your vote?

[Yosarian2]

Why Fritz? The only thing I have about him in my notes of relevence is that he pushed hard on DG's bandwagon both day 1 and day 2. Why do you think he's scum? Did I miss something?

[Yosarian2]

Hell, no sense in switching my stellar record so far in this game (I don't think I've been on a single successful lynch of either side). I still rpefer Pooky and/or Fritzler at this point, and neongrey is much further down in my view. What's the case, particularly, against them? Not that we don't have some wiggle room to remove suspicious townies, but there's no reason to squander it, is there?

Trying to stay caught up here and in other games. Next post likely Friday, though.

Again, why the two of them? To repeat myself:

Why Fritz? The only thing I have about him in my notes of relevence is that he pushed hard on DG's bandwagon both day 1 and day 2. Why do you think he's scum? Did I miss something?

[Yosarian2]

Really? Quote this?

I assume he's talking about this:

Maybe because some players haven't even checked in yet?? We only opened the thread like 2 days ago, isn't this a bit fast for a lynch?

I still think Fritzler or Pooky are the better bet, as our two scum caught so far are neither one I would consider a strong "recruited scum" candidate. We could possibly get so lucky as to speed-lynch the third random scum, but my money's not on it.

On another note, I'm not a big fan of worrying to much about who the recruit was, because looking back, the first person who brought up the whole "who would the mafia recruit" question was the scum DGB, right at the start of day 1. So the scum were apparenlty thinking about the issue from the very start, which makes it harder to outguess them.

[Yosarian2]

Actually, Mr. Flay, I'm a little suspicious of you as well mostly because of your voting record; you dropped an early day 1 vote on DG but then unvoted when the wagon started to move, you voted for Tidus after it didn't matter anymore, and otherwise you've been going after people who I think are unlikely to be scum. Also, this whole exchange between you and DG...

DG: [...] this whole "just joking" thing seems to point at you from the get-go, as you've been all over the sanity map thus far... I've not played with you before though, so I don't know if you're always like this.

The "just joking" thing does NOT point at me. Let me acquaint you with my playstyle personally. I won't let you get away with saying that the "just joking" pointed at me.

The only jokes I did was to "show" MoS how to vote for Twomz instead of merely FOS'ing him, and to refer to "Barnes and Barnes" as fellow goofballs. Sorry - I won't let you paint me as the Himalayan Jester.

Your "lightheadedness" on D1, and your bit about avalanches today, are similarly joking posts that don't actually move the game forward in any way. However reading over your other posts I'd say you're pretty much always like this, so it doesn't tell me much.

Fritzler, then either TSA or Twomz, then DG, at this point. Already voting for my top pick.

...just struck me the wrong way. I'm not sure if you're shadowboxing with her or trying to defend her against the whole "joking" thing.

I realize that none of that is very solid, it's more suggestive then anything else. Still, right now, Mr. Flay, you are currently third on my list of possible suspects, after neongray and TheCesspit.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think I need an activity check.

I think you do need to post more then this. Posting without saying anything is a scum tell.

Anyway, we're at lynch -1. Any last words, neongrey?

[Yosarian2]

Is TheCesspit still primarily under suspicion because of tidus' either-or comment? Just curious, I didn't think I'd seen much of anything else. Not willing to drop the hammer on neon until we finish discussing things today, we've still got plenty of time before deadline. Besides, I think I've got a better scum candidate in Fritz, even if no one else does.

Several things caught my attention about him.

Day 1, Tidus first voted for TheCesspit, but he made a specfic point of saying that it was a "weak vote". That's a tell right there, especally for newbie scum, voting someone or FOS'ing them but making a specific point of saying it's a "weak vote" or a "weak FOS" can be a scum partner tell, an attempt to create some distance without putting your partner in any real danger. Then, a while later, Tidus unvoted TheCesspit but then FOS'd him. It all stuck me as possible newbie scum distancing tactics.

Also, in post 85 on day 1, TheCesspit appears to defend DG.

On day 2, TheCesspit blindly followed Dripping Goofball's attempt to create a Twomz bandwagon.

He also questioned my jump onto the DGB bandwagon in a strange post that I'm having a lot of trouble trying to analyze, so I'll just quote it here.

Strange change of vote there by Y2, I must say, though. He liked the Pooky/Frtzler bandwagons, would like to vote TSAGod for lurking and then pops DGB out of the blue.

I'm not sure Y2 is 'lurker scum' if you look back. They've posted consisently.

They maybe scum, naturally, but not sure this is the lurkerscum Pooky was talking about.

Attacks me for voting DG, then sort-of defneds me, then says I might be scum anyway but might not be lurker scum. The whole post just seems wierd.

In TheCesspit's defense, he did eventually get onto the DG bandwagon on day 2, and he did it before the bandwagon appeared inevitable. Still, all in all, he is one of my top suspects at the moment.

[Yosarian2]

i'd say that warrants a good case against someone.

unvote, vote: Thecesspit

but it was the whole tidus thing in the beginning that makes me want to vote him, the latter half of his argument is slightly weak.

(nods)

Yeah, like I said earlier:

After a re-read, my primary suspects are TheCesspit (mostly for his day 1 interaction with Tidus, and his day 1 defense of DGB), and neongrey (who hasn't really done much this game, and who's jump onto the LML bandwagon day 2 seems suspicious). vote:neongrey

The main reason I'm suspicious of TheCesspit is his day 1 interaction with Tidus and his day 1 defense of Dripping Goofball. The day 2 stuff is not as strong, but I found it interesting at least, so I included it for the sake of completeness.

I'd be happy with either a Cesspit or a Neongrey lynch today. I am slightly leaning towards Neongrey, which is why my vote is there right now, but Cesspit is my #2 suspect.

[Yosarian2]

Well, we don't really have much more information then yesterday, other then Pooky being town, which I was already pretty sure of anyway. I think the strongest thing I have to go on is still my argument against TheCesspit from yesterday.

Is TheCesspit still primarily under suspicion because of tidus' either-or comment? Just curious, I didn't think I'd seen much of anything else. Not willing to drop the hammer on neon until we finish discussing things today, we've still got plenty of time before deadline. Besides, I think I've got a better scum candidate in Fritz, even if no one else does.

Several things caught my attention about him.

Day 1, Tidus first voted for TheCesspit, but he made a specfic point of saying that it was a "weak vote". That's a tell right there, especally for newbie scum, voting someone or FOS'ing them but making a specific point of saying it's a "weak vote" or a "weak FOS" can be a scum partner tell, an attempt to create some distance without putting your partner in any real danger. Then, a while later, Tidus unvoted TheCesspit but then FOS'd him. It all stuck me as possible newbie scum distancing tactics.

Also, in post 85 on day 1, TheCesspit appears to defend DG.

On day 2, TheCesspit blindly followed Dripping Goofball's attempt to create a Twomz bandwagon.

He also questioned my jump onto the DGB bandwagon in a strange post that I'm having a lot of trouble trying to analyze, so I'll just quote it here.

Strange change of vote there by Y2, I must say, though. He liked the Pooky/Frtzler bandwagons, would like to vote TSAGod for lurking and then pops DGB out of the blue.

I'm not sure Y2 is 'lurker scum' if you look back. They've posted consisently.

They maybe scum, naturally, but not sure this is the lurkerscum Pooky was talking about.

Attacks me for voting DG, then sort-of defneds me, then says I might be scum anyway but might not be lurker scum. The whole post just seems wierd.

In TheCesspit's defense, he did eventually get onto the DG bandwagon on day 2, and he did it before the bandwagon appeared inevitable. Still, all in all, he is one of my top suspects at the moment.

So,

vote:TheCesspit

[Yosarian2]

Well, you know, there's always the fact that eight of you voted to lynch neongrey, who turned out to be innocent. We could work with that information, instead of your not unreasonable, but not especially strong, argument against TheCesspit. Downplaying a major piece of information isn't going to incline me toward trusting you. I want to reread the Dripping Goofball lynch, because that's the vote you've cast that I can really put in your favor, but it's a confusing timeline of changes regarding who would be lynched at deadline, and I'd like to see exactly where you fall in that. If not for that, I'd be ready to vote you.

When someone looks as suspicious as neongrey did yesterday, I would expect both townies and scum to vote for him, so I'm not really going to try to read anything into who voted for neongrey and who didn't, at least not if I have anything better to go on. If you want to try to put together a bandwagon based on it, though, be my guest.

[Yosarian2]

[*]Yosarian2 - relatively good logic/play but some inconsistencies. I'd really like to see that "list of people who like to pretend (he) said something completly different from what (he) actually said.

That comment of mine was just sort of a general statement of annoyance that MOS was getting all offended at me for something I didn't even say; I didn't really mean anything more then that by it.

[Yosarian2]

Creampuff eater has not contribued that much so far this game, and has a bad voting record, so that bandwagon does make some sense to me. Still, I'd rather lynch Cesspit, all in all.

[Yosarian2]

Cess, I've thought your votes for Fritzler were for terrible reasons for much of the last few days. Why do you currently place him in your top two?

For the same "terrible" reasons as I stated after Fritzler post counts, and his reason behind them (to distract and gain advantage for his side). And beyond that if you look at his posting record, most of it is unexplained. Maybe it's Fritzler being Fritzler, but for a lot of other people if they voted with no reason, did post counts and posted random stuff, you'd lynch them.

It is worth noting that the whole attack against the vote count Fritzer did was based on the fact Fritzer did a vote count and a demand that more people vote for DG at the same time, which you thought was bad (you said something about you wanted the editoral comments in another post, I think). As we now know, DG was scum, so even if Fritzer was using underhand or manipulative tactics to get more people to vote for DG, that dosn't make Fritzer more scummy; if anything it makes him less scummy. That seems a pretty bad reason to be attacking him.

[Yosarian2]

unvote

I'd prefer a creampuffeater lynch to my lynch, as there's a chance he's scum, while I'm 100% sure I'm not. Not that that's believed, but there we go.

I think there maybe something in the fact I wasn't lynched in all that time. Look at whose voted and who hasn't, there maybe something in the pattern.

So, are your scumbuddies voting for you right now, or not?

[Yosarian2]

We're getting very close to a WIFOM endgame here I think; there's almost certainly AN experienced scum left, because experienced players are being left alive (me, Fritz, LML up til replacement, Lloyd, etc). But who?

You?

vote:Mr. Flay

I've had a bad feeling about you for most of the game; quite a few people have, in fact, but somehow you just never made it to the top of anyone's list.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Mostly the same suspicions I discribed about you a few days ago. You still don't have a good voting record over the course of the game (not that anyone's voting record has improved in the last few days), but the biggest thing is just a bad feeling about you. Your attacks on people are logically consistant in the narrow sense, but all of them seem to ignore the broader context, which makes me wonder if you're actually trying to find scum or are just trying to put together logical-sounding arguments against people.

For example, you have been attacking Fritzer for "calling DG scum in like his second post", and ignoring the fact that attacking some person really agressivly for no apparent reason on day 1 is normal behavior for Fritzer. You're attacking broomhead for hammering neon, while ignoring the context; it was so close to the deadline that there was basically no chance of Neon not being lynched that day, so why would a scum make such a big show of hammering a townie who was going to be lynched anyway?

[Yosarian2]

Yos: I'm inherently conservative when it comes to throwing the hammer; therefore even on the chance that broomhead is a bloodthirsty townie, I don't see it as pro-town/helpful behavior. That sort of thing can get us killed should we reach a Lynch-Or-Lose endgame. I would NEVER say that a lynch is a foregone conclusion before the hammer is thrown; just looking at the voting pattern in this game should answer that, and we don't have any investigative/useful roleclaims to rescue people.

Well, in general, sure, there's always a chance that the lynch can be stopped. In that specific case, though, with the deadline so close and there being so many votes on neon and no one else having anywhere close to as many votes, I was pretty sure that neon was going to get lynched, and I doubt anyone else could have come to a different conclusion. I would still think that knowing the bandwagon was going to be on a good guy, scum would be more likely to sit back and wait for the deadline lynch instead of dropping the hammer like that. Not that that's evidence broomhead's a good guy, or anything like, just that I don't see dropping the hammer in that situation as a scum tell.

[Yosarian2]

We really do need to hear from more people...this kind of lurking everyone is doing is not helping.

[Yosarian2]

People who are lurking right now:

broomhead:

His last post was

broomhead posted nothing but one defensive post yesterday--didn't help find scum, didn't vote.

*hangs head* yeah, my bad, today i will be of some help.

i am going to

vote llyod

because of yesterday. i wasn't happy with him switching around his vote when the bandwagon was at the top, i think he wanted to get off a townie's bandwagon to look more innocent.

That was 9 days ago, and dispite his promise to "be of some help", that was his only post of the day.


Dead Rikimaru: Has posted a little content today, but has not posted at all in 5 days.

JamesSparrow: Has not posted in 9 days, and posted very little back then.

If any of the three of you are reading, you need to show up and at least say what you think of the Flay bandwagon before the day ends.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure what happened to N4, hang on... okay, it looks like just a miscount, Pooky was killed the night after MoS. The only one that sticks out of the

dead

is kirbyfreak, and possibly MoS. But why are the rest of us still alive? Okay, scratch that, I know I'm alive 'cause I've been a terrible player this time around. But why Lloyd, whose logic has been unassailable? Fritzler, who pegged DGB D1? Yosarian? Fuldu, for crissake, who I'd have killed on general principle a long time ago... Lee/BuddyLee? Twomz?

Well, it looks to me like the scum are picking off the experenced players. Scum DG seemed to think HezLucky was a very strong player, which is probably why he died.

Who needs to random vote in this game?

Duh!

FOS: neongrey and RandomActs for not paying attention, haha.

We already have something to work with... who did the Asian Mafia recruit? I'd say Fritzler because 100% for sure he'd "accept the offer" but I think HezLucky might be the evil ones best asset (not offense to all the other players that weren't chosen).

vote: HezLucky, top target for mafia recruitment.

And MOS, Pooky, and Thesp, the other three dead, are all rather experenced players. MOS was mostly cleared by the way he led the wagon to lynch tidus on day 1, so he was a logical target, and Pooky was mostly cleared (I thought, anyway) by the way the bandwagon went on the day DG was lynched. All of the nightkills so far seem logical to me.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, I agree. I was suspicious of creampuff yesterday, and wouldn't mind lynching him either. I'm still more suspicious of Flay, but if something dramatic happenes in the next 30 hours or so and it looked like Flay wasn't going to get lynched, I'd vote for creampuff.

[Yosarian2]

(twiddles thumbs)

I've got to say I find it odd that we're heading for a lynch of Mr. Flay, and there are only 4 votes on him, and yet no one has said they think he's a bad lynch. I'm not sure if he's scum and his scumbuddies are trying to be noncommital, or if he's town and the scum are trying to just quietly let the lynch happen, but either way I don't like it.

[Yosarian2]

Good morning, all. Any observations?

Let me start off by saying that, now that I know for sure that Flay was scum, I feel pretty confident that Fritzer and Broomhead are probably not.

[Yosarian2]

Fritzler and me, you mean.

Anyway, I need to finish reading the thread and we need to ask ourselves why Fuldu got killed. I mean, he wasn't voting for Mr. Flay.

No, I meant what I said; part of the reason I came to the conclusion Flay was scum was that he was attacking Fritzer and Broomhead for reasons that made no sense to me, and then he backed off when attacked. I don't think either one of them is scum.

[Yosarian2]

Um...except you are broomhead. I knew that.

[Yosarian2]

I'll try to do another vote count comparison later. But we can all agree that Flay was the most likely recruit? Or would it have shown up as "recruit" when we lynched him, thus the real recruit is the one left?

Either way, i'll

vote: Creampuffeater

for now. This may change after the vote count analysis.

Yeah, Flay was a probable recruit. He may or may not have been the recruit, but I think that us looking for the recruit at this point would probably be counter-productive.

[Yosarian2]

3. Fritz. I dunno, normally he would be helping us to catch scum, but this time it's different.

i like the lordy play

Overeacting are we?

I said the scum is likely to be one of these four. You are ranked 3rd because my notes says so.

Um...your notes say that Fritz didn't "help catch scum" this game? That seems to me to be pretty clearly not at all true. Care to explain what you mean?

[Yosarian2]

oh this is why lordy left me alive

he knew idiots like MBL would attack me

Um, perhaps you misread the post. Looks to me like the entire point of that post was MBL defending you.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...ok. Taking a look back at voting records, the people with the records that look most suspicious to me are Lordy, (Sparrow had a bad voting record, what little of it there was) and Lloyd. (Thoth only voted once, for random acts; Llyod voted for cesspit and fritzer but never for flay). It's also interesting to note that Fuldu voted flay a few times but not when he was lynched, and voted DGB day one but not when she was lynched.

[Yosarian2]

Arrgghhh...why would you vote for yourself? I HATE it when people do that...

If you're a good guy, you should be doing your best to convince us you're a good guy, to improve out chances of lynching scum. When I see someone vote for themselves, it just looks like they're trying to get sympathy, or have given up. Either way, it's just going to get you lynched.

Even if you are town, which I tend to doubt right now, and you get lynched, there's still no reason for us to trust your judgement tommorow. Especally when you're still attacking Fritzer, who seems very pro-town to me at this point, and it appears that you're attacking him just because he's attacking you.

If you want to win for your side, whichever side that may be, it's your job is to convince us not to lynch you, or convince us to lynch someone else. I know it's frustrating to replace someone who looks scummy, but if you're going to play the game, then play it.

[Yosarian2]

Like I said before, the people who I'm suspicious us based on their voting record are primarally Lloyd, Lordy, and to a lesser extend fuldu.

[Yosarian2]

(sigh) D'oh. I thought I had my notes all updated, too.

[Yosarian2]

I think it would be a good idea if everyone classified everyone else, much like I did above (GG, BG, Lurker/no read)

Alright. Might as well just post my notes at this point, share my observations.

Probable good guys: (many reasons to think the person is probably pro-town)

Fritzler: Voted for DGB day 1 and pushed her bandwagon day 2. Probable good guy. Flay tried to lynch him; very probable good guy.

CES (replacing broomhead): Mr. Flay was trying really hard to lynch broomhead. CES hammered flay.

MrBuddy lee, replacing LoudMouthLee: LML was 4th vote on DGB bandwagon day 1. Helped start DGB bandwagon day 2. DGB tried to push his bandwagon hard day 2. Probable good guy.

People who I have some reason to think might be good, but I'm not as confident about as the group above:

creampuffeater:6th vote on DGB day 1 bandwagon. 2'nd vote on the Tidus day 1 bandwagon.

Dead Rikimaru:Voted Flay the day he was lynched, after some lurkage.

Twomz : Third vote on day 1 DGB bandwagon. DGB tried to put together a Twomz bandwagon in post 283.

People who I do not trust at all

Lordy (replacing JamesSparrow (Replacing Hallisy) : Sparrow was 5th vote on DGB day 1 bandwagon, said he would unvote if it "started to escalate very quickly"; possible scum tell. Otherwise, Sparrow voted Fritz and cesspit. Not Flay.

Lloyd (Replacing Thoth): Pushed very hard for a LML lynch, on the day we lynched scum DGB. Also voted for fritzer and TheCesspit. Has never once voted for or FOS'd or attacked anyone who turned out to be scum at any point in the game. Very suspicious voting record.

[Yosarian2]

No opinion on most people, huh Lloyd?

Why do you so suspicious of creampuffeater?

[Yosarian2]

vote:llyod

Lordy's not a terrible lynch, but my gut's telling me it's lloyd.

[Yosarian2]

Along with all the voting record stuff I pointed out before, Llyod's last post helped convince me he's even more likely to be scum then Lordy is. For one, he's supporting either a lordy or a CES lynch, but he is unwilling to label anyone as a good guy; which only makes sense. If he's scum, he knows he's going to have to get 4 people lynched in order to win, so he can't afford to plant the idea in anyone's mind that certain persons are good guys, because he might need to get them lynched later. The only person he's willing to consider a good guy is Fritzer, and that's just because everyone else seems to think Fritzer's a good guy, and he's probably planning to kill Fritz tonight anyway.

It's also interesting the way he's complety ignored the arguments I've made against him. I really think Lloyd is the lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Edit: Last post I said CES when I meant CPE, creampuffeater.

[Yosarian2]

If you cannot relate to the apathy feeling that I'm referring to, then you may be the remaining scum.

I've got to say, throwing a backhanded half-way "if you don't understand, then perhaps YOU are scum" OMGUS accusation at me for attacking you dosn't make me any less inclined to suspect you.

That being said, my primary reason for suspicion was not the fact you didn't defend yourself, it's your scummy looking voting record, and the fact that you were unable to commit to any other people seeming good to you other then Fritzer; considering how many scum lynches we've had, there's got to be SOMEONE else who seems townie to you, right?

[Yosarian2]

Fine. Looks like no one else wants a lloyd lynch today, and the deadline's in about a day. I guess I might as well go to my #2 suspect for now.

unvote:lloyd

vote:lordy

[Yosarian2]

vote:lloyd

I, personally, would be rather surprised if CPE turns out to be scum, especally considering the way Flay was trying to get broomhead lynched earlier in the game. Now, he could still be scum, he's not someone I consider, but I think a lloyd lynch today is a better bet.

[Yosarian2]

(sigh) Yes, yes I was. Darn TLA's. Let me see what I have about CPE.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm...ok.

CreamPuffEater has been posting very little the game, only about once a week for much of it, which make me suspicious of him as a semi-lurker. However, his voting record is quite good; he was the 6'th vote on the day 1 dripping goofball wagon, the 2'nd vote on the day 1 tidus wagon, and he voted for flay twice, including on the day he was lynched. I haven't ruled him out as possible scum, but it dosn't seem to me all that likely at this point.

[Yosarian2]

creampuff's voting history: DG, tidus, fritz, neongrey, cesspit, Flay, lordy

broomhead/CES's: Fuldu, Fritz, Pooky, RA, cesspit, neongrey, lloyd, an inconsequential hammer on Flay, no vote at all yesterday

If you assume creampuff is scum, he's been 3/7 on votes.
If you assume broomhead's scum, he's been 1/8 on votes, and that one was so late it shouldn't be counted.

Vote: CES.

His voting record's been bad. His last post was two weeks ago. Before that, broomhead was a non-entity.

Ultimately, creampuff's strange remarks and reasons for voting haven't been nearly as bad as broomhead/CES's history.

Well, that does make sense. Is there a reason you're not considering Lloyd right now, though? If we're looking at voting records, his is the worst of any one who is still alive.

[Yosarian2]

W/ 7 players remaining, we only have 1 mislynch, so lynching all 3 isn't an option.

Huh? With 7 people left, we could mislynch today, mislynch tommorow (when there's 5 people left), and then lynch correctly when there's only 3 people left. We do have 2 mislynches left, and therefore we actually can lynch 3 people.

[Yosarian2]

did i win yet?

Nope. Just help us lynch the last scum, and it'll be over.

[Yosarian2]

There's CPE, now, if someone could do CES/broomhead and someone else could do Lloyd, then we'd be wired to win!

Well, I won't do a full PBPA of Lloyd, but I'll do a summery of his posts.


First, he replaced Thoth. Thoth only made 1 post, but it seems somewhat suspicious to me, as it looks like an attempt to defend DG without really defending her

Which player was recruited is really difficult to guess. Even if the mafia decided to take the best player available opinions could vary between several. The only thing that is somewhat likely is that it's unlikely they recruited a new/inexperienced player as he has the chance to out multiple scum by bad play.

The DG wagon is going a bit fast. Not that surprising as DG's post seemed suspicious and little else happened.

I'll try a different approach though:
vote:Random Acts
Voting for players not in the game always seems rather suspicious to me.

(Bah...I just got interupted, and don't have time to finish this now...will finish this Lloyd analysis later.)

[Yosarian2]

-On the day we lynched Dripping Goofball, Lloyd was pushing the LML bandwagon very hard, who was very nearly lynched instead of her. It's interesting to note that in the process, he defended Dripping Goofball.

The relevent part of the post:

[quote="Lloyd]-4) After tidus confessed...You continue to waver between MoS and DG in your accusations, without considering timing of their votes for tidus

- You neglected to point out that MoS casted vote #2 for tidus in post 178, and DG casted vote #4 for tidus in post 180.

- When they casted their votes (#2 and #4) for tidus, MoS was leading with 6 votes.

* Unless either MoS, DG, or both are scum, and wanted to sacrifice tidus...

a) If MoS is scum, it seems unlikely that he would direct attention away from himself, and onto another scum (tidus) on Day 1 when it may implicate him (via HezLucky's theory earlier in post 129)

b) If DG is scum, it seems unlikely that she would pass on an existing wagon of MoS, onto another scum (tidus) on Day 1

c) If MoS and DG are both scums, it seems unlikely that they would direct attention onto another scum (tidus) on Day 1 when it may implicate MoS (via HezLucky's theory earlier in post 129)
[/quote]

He also defended MOS in the process, which would be a point in his favor, except that as MOS had absolutly no chance of getting lynched that day anyway.

Later on in the day, he changed his stance on DG, but in an interesting way.

I still think Lee is the play today, for reasons that I mentioned earlier. Plus, his recent bet on DG seems bold for a townie.

I await Lee's response to post 479.

In the meantime, I thought about what Lee could have meant by "mafia life".

a) If Lee meant mafiascum.net life, then I don't think it's a promise that he could keep

b) If Lee meant life in this game as a townie, then he is doing our town a disservice to trade his life on sole basis of what DG wrote in post 9 of this game

c) If Lee meant life in this game as a mafia, then he made a slip up

Until then...

- If Lee is town, then I think he's doing our town a disservice to trade his life in this game like that.

- If Lee is scum, then he could make such a bet without worries. In addition, if Lee is scum and views DG's Day 1 post as a slip up...By implicating her, Lee could try to ride this game until the end.

As Mr. Flay said in post 385, Lee tends to be careful as scum. Between Lee and DG, I'd rather leave DG around for another day because she posts more (thus more chances of possibly slipping up).

- As for DG, her timing of her recent unvote on Lee (to drop him to 3 votes) seems scummy to me. If DG is scum, then she might tip us off on who the third man might be.

I would like a Lee lynch today, and a DG lynch tomorrow.

I think that either Lee or DG (and possibly both) are scum. If neither Lee nor DG turns up scum, then I am confused as to who the scums might be.

He continued to attack Lee. He started to act suspicious of DG, but primarally as a link to Lee; he was still pushing for a Lee lynch, and if Lee was lynched and turned out to be townie, he seems to have been leaving himself room to not go after DG the next day.

This series of attacks on Fritzer also seems suspicious to me., especally as this was after Fritzer helped lynched DG and thus looked rather innocent to me.

Vote: Fritzler

No reason given, which seems unusual for him.

[quote="Lloyd]broomhead,

It's funny that you now have an opinion about voting, considering that you didn't have much of an opinion the past several days.

Anyhow, Fritzler's the lynch for today. Are you purposely not voting for Fritzler? [/quote]

Still no reason given.

Fritzler plays mafia games to kill people (bandwagon'ing, day kills, night kills, etc.).

If there's scum who would vote for his / her fellow scums, it would be Fritzler doing the voting.

In a vanilla townie game without cops, helping lynch a fellow scum may re-direct suspicions away him / herself.

Finally a sort of reason, but the only reason he's giving now is that he would expect scum Fritzer to help lynch a fellow scum. That's fine, but do you really think that Fritzer lynching a scum is actually a scum tell from Fritzer?

My vote on Fritzler stays.

But after all that, this is what he said today.

GG
Fritzler

BG
lordy
creampuffeater

No Read
Twomz
Yosarian2
Dead Rikimaru
MrBuddyLee
Cogito Ergo Sum

Which seems very odd to me. Yes, between the attacks on Fritzer and the time when he was the only one who Lloyd trusted, Fritzer did help the Flay wagon, but he's hardly the only one who did. I would argue that I pushed harder on the Flay wagon then anyone else did, basically starting it that day and keeping my vote there all day.

So why does he trust Fritzer and no one else, not even me who arguably did even more on the Flay bandwagon, after being so suspicious of Fritzer earlier and after making such a big point of saying that Fritzer would throw fellow scum to the wolves? Again, I think that he's scum, and that he acnolaged Fritzer as a good guy because everyone else thought he was a good guy and he wasn't going to change anyone's mind on that, and that he planned to kill Fritzer tonight anyway, so admitting it was no loss at that point.

[Yosarian2]

Ok... after all this, I now think the scum is twomz. That second vote is very scummy, even though you said you would put it on. so

Vote: Twomz

Um, why? He went into great detail yesterday about why he thought you were sucmmy. He might be right, or he might be wrong, but you think he's scummy because he's voting for you after having several long posts saying in great detail he thought you were suspicious?

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) I'm thinking about it, but we have a few days left before deadline, I'd like to have a little more discussion first.

CES, I would think you would especally want more discussion, as it sounds like some people wanted to lynch you next if CPE turns out to not be scum.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Perhaps; still, I see no reason to rush this.

I'm still waiting to hear from CPE; why are you voting for Twomz?

[Yosarian2]

Twomz: I'm not really liking this "oh, I don't care what order we lynch them in" thing you're doing. Makes me wonder if you're the scum, trying to set up a win for yourself. Perhaps not the most likely possibility, but it's worrying me. So who do you think is scummy, and why?

[Yosarian2]

CPE, reasons given already. But, it seems as though the majority of the town doesn't follow my train of thought on the situation. So, i'm taking the course of action that in my mind leads to the eventual lynch of CPE. The only other choices i have are to either Convince you or MBL that CPE is the last scum (if my summary of his posts didn't do that I dont' know what will) or to leave my vote on CPE til the deadline. I see no reason why we have to wait til the deadline... but I suppose you're right, there is no reason for me to try to set up lynches or wait for tomorrow to lynch CPE,

unvote, vote: creampuffeater

Now Yos, who do YOU think is scummy. I believe you're the only person who hasn't voted yet... and you're right, where is CPE? I know he's around because i've seen him in #mafia on IRC.

At this point, CES is probably my top suspect, followed (in some order) by CPE and you. I have a strong feeling MrBuddyLee is town.

[Yosarian2]

I guess I'll go ahead and

vote:Congiot Ergo Sum

. Out of the three suspects, he has the worst voting record of any of them. The only point I had in his favor in my notes was that Flay attacked Broomhead pretty hard, but I know Flay is good at distancing himself from fellow scum, so that might not mean much.

[Yosarian2]

Good game, all.

Heh...I was so proud of myself for figuring out Mr. Flay and DGB were scum, but LML totally pulled one over on me; I really thought he was a good guy. Well played, everyone.

[Yosarian2]

Heh...I figured you were scum just because, if Pooky was scum and you weren't, a few people someone would have found an excuse to get onto your wagon and get you lynched instead of Pooky. The way the bandwagons were going just made me think that the scum wanted the bandwagon to be on Pooky.

Although I've got to say that the way LML threw you under the bus was the main reason I thought he was a good guy, and that his attacks on you probably won the game for the scum. I've got to keep a closer eye on him next time...