He's old.
He's not.
This is something that came up before, i'm just trying to clarify the "what ifs". If he's lying, then it looks like he wants us to lynch. We can't discount a possibility just because it's one we don't want to have to deal with. So what are the consequences for town if it is a Jester? And if he's a Vampire, wouldn't it make him an obvious target when he resurrects?The Fonz wrote:Oh God, not jester speculation.
I was, but I was unsure of what exactly would happen if he turned out to be a jester. On balance, second place is better than having him lose it for us later on. Based on the few things I'd picked up about jesters from reading the forum, I'd considered it better to be cautious (like the positing restriction, that could certainly be applied to the way Xtoxm might be getting us to lynch him). But if the worst we get for lynching a jester is second place, then I don't mind.@ MikeSC – That’s a lot of jester talk. A lot of people shun the idea of jesters even in a theme game unless it specifically states that there could be jesters or that it’s bastard modded style. Are you uncomfortable with testing his claim?
I do, yes. One of the fishier things I thought was his proposition that we elect him mayor then try to lynch him because that would make him a confirmed townie- which just isn't the case. Although he's not posted much at all, one line posts here and there- so he could, like someone said, be a bored simple villager who just wants to die. At the moment, I think if he's not lying, he's at least misleading us. We need more information from him about his role.Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?
Yeah, I was just musing out loud, really- I didn't expect any affirmative answer from anyone. That first link shows that he's not averse to messing with his side to get out of games he doesn't want to play- so the "innocent" thing could be true, but not the "unlynchable" thing.The Fonz wrote:It's hard to answer Mike's post without getting into a massive pile of WIFOM.
Nah, I don't think it would help, really- we'd end up with some massive WIFOM when it comes to scum electing their successor. It would put pressure on the person, we'd all be monitoring them, sure- but there is the danger of getting too focussed on one person based on day 1 (it's not too bad getting focussed on a person and then lynching them, I don't think- but putting the spotlight on someone and then keeping them in the game could skew it).Firestarter wrote:I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this please. Possible Pros & Cons.
If Battlemage was lurking and had only made a joke post, I'd agree that it would indicate scum. But we've had plenty of activity in addition to this from Battlemage.@ Battlemage: That jester claim does not look good for you. Especially after multiple people asked for the speculation to stop. Scum often use joking to avoid providing content.
Held more accountable? Shouldn't we hold any scummy players accountable? I don't see how this would make much of a difference- except, of course, as an easy way for scum (if we actually do elect scum...) to dodge voting except when absolutely safe. I'd much sooner see it in the hands of a likely-townie confident enough to use their double-vote when they think they should.@ Firestarter: I share the idea that I would like to see potential scum as major. The major will be held more accountable than other players. Scum mayor will either have to bus their partners for self preservation, or have their voting patterns traced looking for inconsistancies when a mislynch occurs.
I was after anything he had to say- just a comment is nice... I suppose. I don't see what harm a roleclaim could do- considering he's already told us that he's unlynchable. If he really is pro-town, then that's all the scum need to know.Rolefishing, Mike?
Someone mentioned that he could be a vampire- not knowing what this is, I checked the wiki. Which says...The Fonz wrote:Can we put the absurd conspiracy theories aside, please? There has never been a role like that in the history of mafia, and no competent mod would ever include one. If he *is* a judas role, then his chances of winning are highest if he delays his first lynch as long as possible.MikeSC6 wrote:He could be a vamp that chooses when to resurrect. It would be awful to get to lynch or lose and then have him turn up and make us lose it, or something like that. I'm all for directing a vigilante his way tonight.
If he got a role he didn't want to play- then he could have. It might sound like something that just wouldn't happen, but reading a couple of pages of those games you listed- Xtoxm looks like he rarely does what you'd think!Juls wrote:You think he was wanting to get out of a game that he joined? That makes next to zero sense. If this was post 1000 I could buy it but it was like his first post.
Sure thing- I'll write up what little notes I've been making- hope it's useful, though bear(I still don't know if it's "bear" or "bare" or a different one ) in mind I don't have any set opinions that I'm completely confident of- most of my attention was on Xtoxm/millar last round, the prominence of it kind of pushed everything else into the background, and the way that's resolved it looks like it was all a good opportunity for scum to dip under the radar.MikeSC6, I would like to see you do a little more than just toss ideas out without stating which one you believe most likely. You seem pretty on the fence. I want to hear about what your opinions are and what you believe most likely.
Thanks, that makes senseIt's bare, as in carry Very Happy
Perfectly happy so far, Yosarian has been making townie noises and hasn't been afraid to use his vote. My two choices were Shadow Knight and, if I remember correctly, Battle Mage, if that helps. Never got round to narrowing it down to an official vote- but I've no complaints so far.You didn't vote for a mayor, which I find odd. Are you happy with Yosarian2? Why or why not?
Pure OMGUS against Dr. Pepper. Why select Dr. Pepper over the rest of us who suspect you? And why shouldn't he suspect you- considering you still haven't answered the outstanding questions or explained your previous posts?Mufasa wrote:Well finally I am back, got back from boston friday had a game then was called up to go to a military event training this weekend srry for the inconvenience in which my schedule interferred with getting back here and posting answers to you're questions.
Dr Pepper patience is a virtue and you are really pushing the envelope a little bit hard, almost to the point that you are trying to hard to get an easy lynch in which It makes me think that you may possibly be scumfos Dr. Pepper
Okay Battle Mage questions I was seriously just throwing out random thoughts at the time that perhaps he could easily be scum as could anyone else, and I had just thought that I jumped on the trio that had Yoz. BM, was afterwards not the smartest move, and with that said I think we jumped a little to quick on choosing a mayor, but time will tell.
Battle Mage to me hasn't posted a post since I had put out an accusation and has really let the rest of you rip into me as to why I had accused him smart move but I find him a wee bit lurkish without saying he would be gone sofos BM [/]
Any other questions I will gladly answer now im back
Mufasa wrote:my bad didnt realize battle mage was a female character
From pages 26/27. How can you still have thought he was lurking?Mufasa wrote:Yes Yos but battlemage is listed as a female in the character list
He said he'd answer any questions- I had some questions. For him to answer when he can.zwetschenwasser wrote:You didn't read his last post, did you? HE JUST GOT BACK FROM A TRIP, AND HE'S MILDLY DISORIENTED. Sheesh, give the guy a break!
It seemed odd that you'd select Dr. Pepper out of all of your accusers, Dr. Pepper only- who is currently embroiled in a separate discussion and from the looks of things, has a few people who would be willing to vote him should it come to that. Looked kind of opportunistic to me.How is it Omgus, my FOS on Dr Pepper? I Seriously feel that Dr. Pepper was being very impatient and pushing the issue and I am busy and he didn't even read that I was gone during about 4 posts all asking a question when I was gone and expecting an answer.
I wasn't even in this debate, and I'd have thought it quite clear that the cat thing wasn't a proposition to stop the game- more to calm people down since it had turned into personal attacks. It wasn't "cats instead of the discussion"- it was "cats in augmentation to the discussion" . It was just a way to indicate that, in my view, the debate had quickly turned from logical questioning to emotional attacking, the evidence ran out after the first couple of posts in this discussion, ad hominems have since taken the place where evidence should be.MikeSC6 attempts to downplay the situation, admits to not having read it and then tells us to go watch some cats instead. This further compounds my impression that one of the players involved in this debate are scum, and the scum are preparing their exit strategy just in case it goes bad.
What I think: I didn’t think anything of this when it first appeared. It just looked like exasperation with a lurker to me, there’s nothing there that supports the idea that Percy would neglect the rest of the game, especially with the bulk of this post being directed elsewhere.“ZONEACE promised a post on Wednesday. I am going to Vote: ZONEACE until he comes up with some f*****g excellent scumhunting.”
What I think: A completely fair post in my view, and I would agree with it- if a lurker isn’t bothered enough to post for a whole game day, they’re plainly not bothered about playing the game.“In your experience, does this kind of vote actually get lurkers to post? Would you support pushing up the vote count on him and eventually lynching if he doesn't provide "excellent scumhunting"?”
What I think: Again, fair enough- voting based on conditions, acknowledging that these conditions are liable to change. Also asks a separate question of Zwet in this post, so he’s clearly not using this as an excuse not to play the game.“If he doesn't get replaced and starts actively participating, then I won't want him to be lynched. For the moment, I just can't see how anyone would be OK with a player skipping all of the first day and then posting only to defend themselves. Lurkers (especially ones like this) should be lynched as scum.”
What I think: Fair enough, the issue is sorted calmly and rationally....“Concerning Lurkers, I think since theirs plenty of time, if he's gone from the whole site, it might be better to see if he gets prodded and replaced. Of course, I know players can let mods know that they're lurking on purpose, so if he is, he probably wont be replaced. But I still feel calls for prods should happen before lynchs.”
What I think: Here is where it starts to turn into the monster it is now- though I don’t think this comment is intentionally misleading or anything. I think it’s mistaken- Percy had been participating in all the discussions going between his vote and this comment, but it was certainly something to watch out for. It would have been better if this idea was kept private, and brought out if Percy did end up abstaining from discussion.“I'm sure that calling out lurkers is a good idea. However, you suggested you would keep your vote on him until he provided "excellent" scum hunting. That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything. It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.”
“Glad to see Percy is flushing out the lurkers while still contributing. He seems townie for the time.”
What I think: I completely agree here- Percy had been spending more time on other discussions than on the whole lurker thing.“dingo, I find that accusation of Percy not contributing to be unfounded. He is clearly performing player analysis, calling out lurkers, and keeping the game moving. He doesnt need to commit to a lynch so early. Maybe he doesnt want the popular lynch to occur. Maybe ZONEACE will be the lynch for the day.”
What I think: I don’t agree with the first sentence there- but I can see how that interpretation can come from Percy’s post 612. I agree with the second sentence- Dingo didn’t say that, though again I can see how Dr Pepper got that from post 638. And I can also see that battle lines are starting to be drawn in the first sentence there, Dingo seems to be digging in and becoming more sure of his hypothetical situation than before, but only because it’s been challenged, not because of any new evidence that would support it.“I just don't like the declaration that his vote will stay on Zoneface until Zoneface starts playing in some "excellent" way. I didn't say that Percy was not contributing.”
What I think: The rest of the post doesn’t need to be quoted I don’t think- it seems to me, apart from this little bit which I have something to say about, that this post is the towniest in the discussion so far. Dr Pepper doesn’t give the same kind of “battles lines drawn” vibe that was hinted at in Dingo’s last post- and while I disagree with the idea that the vote will put pressure on ZONEACE to contribute (on this I agree with Dingo, who has since been proven correct.), I don’t think it’s particularly scummy to take that line.“It is fine that you don't like Percy's vote stance, but you have yet to give a valid reason for him to change it.”
With con voyage meaning "conveying". People asked for explanations for this post right after it was posted, yet you posted several times before explaining it (unconvincingly, in my view.)Mufasa wrote:I'm not believing that one haha so reviewing day one the most likely person to lynch is Battle Mage for his contribution is so great that he needs to be lynched on the simple matter that he has a good con voyage.
By "the rest" I meant Dingo and Percy- well just Dingo really. There were times when he misunderstood Percy's position, just like Dr Pepper did of him. It's certainly possible that either one intentionally did so- I don't know how you guys have decided that Dr Peppers was intentional, and Dingos an honest mistake.Also, who do you refer to as "rest" besides the discussee?
He then made his softclaim that he has some kind of power and would like to be lynched on day 3 rather than day 2. And he helped to lynch Dr Pepper with a one line post, without having even mentioned Dr Pepper at all previously as far as I can remember.Me from the past! wrote:First, this post-
Mufasa wrote: I'm not believing that one haha so reviewing day one the most likely person to lynch is Battle Mage for his contribution is so great that he needs to be lynched on the simple matter that he has a good con voyage.
With con voyage meaning "conveying". People asked for explanations for this post right after it was posted, yet you posted several times before explaining it (unconvincingly, in my view.)
You later said that in this post you meant Battle Mage hadn't been consistent in his activity, and that that this was a scumtell you'd seen in "various games". When asked, you said said that it was only one game and that it was ongoing so we couldn't discuss it or be linked to it, effectively dead-ending this line of discussion. What about the rest of these various games?
Then later you said that you weren't trying to call for his lynch, and that you were just throwing a name out, contradicting the idea that you thought he was scum because of his inconsistent activity. "Most likely person to be lynched" and "needs to be lynched" however, don't support this. Which is true- did you think he was scum, or were you just throwing a name out to discuss?
Also- the mayor thing. You voted him for mayor, and kept that vote on (saying that you didn't need to take your vote away.) You also said that soon after your vote you started to have suspicions and didn't think him a good choice for mayor. However later on day 1 you included him in your "three people you wouln't mind being mayor," describing them as the "three likeliest to be town." If you really started to have honest suspicions about Battle Mage on day 1, why wait until day 2 when he's not there to voice them?
And did he really go from "likeliest to be town" to "needs to be lynched" because he didn't post quite as much later on than at the beginning of the day?
As well, the fact that Battle Mage can't post today. It was explained why early on this day. The next time it came up, you helped to explain it to someone else. Then later you used Battle Mages inactivity on day 2 to back up your opinion of him as scum. I don't buy that it was just confusion, though I guess there's nothing much to ask about that.
While I'm here, it'd be nice to ask a few new questions-
What is your opinion of this other discussion that's going on? Do you have any opinion as to who could be scum? What do you think of Zwets sometimes zealous defense of yourself?
The "congratulating the town" one, really. I ask because, in this game yesterday, Zwet I think it was brought up that referring to yourself in the third person is a scumtell, and voted Dr Pepper for it. So far that's 0 out of 1 for scumtell effectiveness. I can see how it might be a scummy move if it's in conjunction with scummy behaviour, but on it's own, I don't think so. It seems like it's just too easy to go "this is a textbook scumtell", rather than build an argument. I don't think we should lynch solely on scumtells, because in the event of a misslynch it doesn't give us any more information about the players who voted, as they were doing it by the textbook- no more, no less.What particular scumtells are you talking about? Do YOU think they are good indicators of scum behavior?
What do you mean, "Dr. Pepper referred to himself in the third person"?
I agree, Mufasa's been far scummier than Yos. We've had a self-vote, a period of lurking on day 1, no consistency in his suspicions, unanswered questions, a very convenient softclaim. On day 2 I only unvoted him based on the condition that he be lynched today and then we'd find out for sure, which now he's against.Anyway, the whole thing with Mufasa seems to have slipped by the wayside here. Yesterday, he said it would be good for the town if he was lynched today, because of some trigger-when-he-gets-lynched ability he was claiming; today, he's saying it wouldn't be good for him to get lynched. Mufasa, why did you change your mind?