Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

what's up gamers!!

VOTE: Bell

Scum

If this is scum I don't want to be town

[Dunnstral]

Broadly speaking the vast majority of players aren't the type to claim miller as mafia, it takes a specific type of bold/risky player because most players tend to play scum rather passively. Meuh doesn't really fit into that archetype in my head and I'm inclined to believe her claim, her posting afterwards reads solidly town to me and I don't see reason to doubt that. pooky is closer to the type of player I could see doing a miller gambit as scum (i.e. more like me), but I think the way he's handled it with pressuring Meuh is

fine

and I wouldn't really push him for it right now.

I also think Bell's aggression out the gate and pressure toward elle is a good look and +town for him.

I like this post

[Dunnstral]

I like the analysis on what mafia wouldn't do with miller claims.

Not sure if this is relevant but I recently got out of a mini normal where town had 4 millers, a cop, and a backup cop. Mafia had an informed played that knew there were 4 millers, and a miller enabler. I was mafia in that game, none of us fake claimed miller.

[Dunnstral]

in theory scum!pooky could have been informed there was a miller and cleverly asked prism for a miller fake claim during pregame to orchestrate as well

this post feels off to me, it's giving me vibes of speculating about something that you know didn't happen
VOTE: elle

??? i don’t think it’s likely to have happened if that’s what you’re trying to say but doesn’t seem impossible to me and two millers claims is !!!

anyway i don’t know what happened so therefore i don’t know what didn’t happen regarding the millers

i still don’t really believe either of the miller claims for what it’s worth

This is a little unclear to me: Are you scumreading the millers separately, or together, and in 148 it looks like you are saying it is unlikely that pooky is fake claiming but you still doubt them.

[Dunnstral]

I'm a big fan of hardcore/ironman game types. I like to focus on defense.

[Dunnstral]

objection sustained

[Dunnstral]

Napkin thoughts: Millers town, catboi town, Bell town

Mafia within: elle (1L), Ydrasse, SirCakez, Guiltylion


This is a lot faster than I usually analyze things, but I already feel like I have things to read rather than the game being banter as it usually feels like.

[Dunnstral]

in theory scum!pooky could have been informed there was a miller and cleverly asked prism for a miller fake claim during pregame to orchestrate as well

this post feels off to me, it's giving me vibes of speculating about something that you know didn't happen
VOTE: elle

What you point out here makes me think of this post which was made by a member of the mafia in that game with 4 town millers and mafia having an informed role:

The thing that's really starting to annoy me is that people are acting as if all these Miller claims mean they MUST be Town.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Scum could be informed about there being one or more Millers in the game?

[Dunnstral]

Also napkin thoughts:

elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.

Bell I know you are going to ask why I have you as town; I think catboi made a good point about your early aggressiveness leaning town

[Dunnstral]

like guesses for scumteam bad because it’s assuming scum!me and this is how town!me acts in this situation because i’m town, shrug

if you’re town here what would help you to see that

You asserting yourself as town without showing how or why is not convincing to me. I guess my question to you is how is your play this game different from when you are mafia?

[Dunnstral]

i think if one of pooky/meuh are a scums then odds of dunnstral also being a scums go up due to emphasis on millers normal

which made an announcement re:millers at gamestart importantly

How does that make me more likely to be a scums?

[Dunnstral]

i think if one of pooky/meuh are a scums then odds of dunnstral also being a scums go up due to emphasis on millers normal

which made an announcement re:millers at gamestart importantly

How does that make me more likely to be a scums?

slightly so to me as it felt like you’re saying played in millers game therefore two millers in this game more like by implication

Sure, but why is that more likely to come from scums me than towns me? I did play in that other game either way.

[Dunnstral]

like guesses for scumteam bad because it’s assuming scum!me and this is how town!me acts in this situation because i’m town, shrug

if you’re town here what would help you to see that

You asserting yourself as town without showing how or why is not convincing to me. I guess my question to you is how is your play this game different from when you are mafia?

the how and why are my role pm and i can’t show you that; was not t

as mafia i think i probably just approach game entirely different and don’t find myself in this situation like my interactions are generally more chosen and on my terms i probably would not have been as excited to play so probably would have just leaned more towards waiting my anxiety manifests in different ways as a scums like it’s just everything

The first line here bothers me because it seemed like you were saying we should be able to determine you were towns earlier. But now you are saying it's something that can't be shown. Like post 168 you were willing to work through it.

[Dunnstral]

Neither of those seem like productive avenues of inquiry to me - even assuming it's true he hasn't fakeclaimed miller since then (and I don't doubt it), it doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not he'd do it this game. Again, I still lean more toward him being town right now.

I did a quick fact check and did not see any fake miller claims. I did see real miller claims.

[Dunnstral]

I took it to mean you could say: 'I am town because I am posting like X, and if I was mafia I'd post like Y.' Or something similar to that. That is the how and the why for me.

Look at what I am asking you in post 202 quoted above and the first line you wrote in response to that.

Looking back you do answer in the second part of your post, so I guess I simply had tunnel vision on the start of your post, as I considered it to be answering my 202.

So you are saying you would post less as mafia? If I am understanding correctly.

[Dunnstral]

i think i would be confused if elle was mafia because it seems like it immediately got flustered by the first iota of pressure and i dont think that it is like at that low threshold of "attention on me in game must try to defuse" with as much like. urgency. as it posted with here.

it's possible i guess everyone has off moments but the entire sequence is just weird to me

what does being flustered by pressure have to do with alignment

i think that mafia are more likely to be it if they have less experience because they don't know how to make the right answers to make it go away

So town would be less likely to be flustered? Why do you think that makes them town, then?

[Dunnstral]

I don't think that will be very helpful for me so would feel guilty making you put in substantial effort to do so. If somebody else thinks this would be useful they can jump in.

I don't think it will be helpful because I don't put a lot of weight into saying you would do things differently when we are this early into the game, and you are the one describing things and there is bias there. I think that mafia fake claiming millers is unlikely, and despite what catboi says I do think a track record of not fake claiming miller makes it more likely to not be fake in this game as well. And meuh was the one who counter claimed so they took an active role and I agree with the thought that mafia are less likely to do so, especially when somebody else is already claiming that role. So that makes me think the millers are town, and your reaction to them reminded me of when I played the mini normal recently and the mafia made a similar argument against the miller claims.

And I also am reading catboi and bell as town, so that has me looking at Elle (1L), Ydrasse, SirCakez, and GuiltyLion. And you Elle (1L) are the one who has given the most content to discuss. I am not disregarding the 4 people I am townreading for the rest of the game, I do think it is a good place to start though.

[Dunnstral]

like scum!me isn’t a replica of town!me it is created to win the game in question

OK this is interesting

[Dunnstral]

I'm not in a rush to vote either

[Dunnstral]

like does that catboi post (or catboi pointing the same thing out i am saying here) really seem that towny to you?

Napkin thoughts: Millers town, catboi town, Bell town

why is catboi town?

I like the analysis in post 136 and I think it is towny to townread those players like that rather than talk about paranoia

[Dunnstral]

@Cakez - do you have a read on elle?

@Dunn - I get that you like the post but you really believe that's sufficient for a townread? 177 and 179 reads as though you're POEing via your townreads and that feels kinda rote and simplistic. I don't think mafia is incapable of producing catboi's ISO so far

If Catboi is mafia they opened up by calling a lot of people town, including two people who claimed the same role. I think mafia would be more hesitant to do so and would want paranoia to remain there.

I guess my reasoning here isn't convincing to other people, but I wasn't really trying to convince other people, I was just giving my own thoughts

[Dunnstral]

I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.

[Dunnstral]

Would Ydrasse, as mafia, feel the need to push SirCakez early on, rather than building up connections?

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

2006 I can't believe my memory goes back that far

Damn, that fakeclaim is older than me

----

history has always punished the most contrarian minds

ok caesar

These are my best of Micro 1091 highlights so far.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral do you want to be my paralegal and write up a summary of this Cakez/Ydrasse dumpster fire interaction

In post 259 SirCakez votes for Ydrasse with some reasoning.

In post 263 and 264 Ydrasse turns around and says SirCakez could be mafia with reasoning.


In post 289 SirCakez says that 263 is ridiculous and asks for the argument against their post 259
290-292 Sircakez is explaining their play around Pooky
293 Ydrasse calls the above touchy
295 Ydrasse asks what SirCakez means with responding to 259 and sort of gives an answer
297 Ydrasse says SirCakez treatment of Pooky is AI
298 SirCakez calls 295 scum point of view


In post 304 Ydrasse says that SirCakez is avoiding engagement with the actual content this game, including the miller claims

[Dunnstral]

Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying


SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town

[Dunnstral]

Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying


SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town

what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?

I find the notion of voting SirCakez agreeable

[Dunnstral]

like gls thoughts on catboi exactly mirror my own. so they make sense to me. i just dont bother to question dflors townread cuz i think its tactically bad.

I do not think that it is unreasonable to not be swayed by Dunn's reasons. I wasn't. I still don't have a read on catboi.

It also did not bother me that he asked Dunn to explain the read, that is also reasonable. My issue was where GL went after that.

It did not read to me, like GL was trying to divine if Dunn's read was a plausibly genuine read or not, and therefore whether having that read was scummy or not. At least, I did not see anything about that coming from GL's posts following Dunn's explanation.

Instead, it seemed like he pivoted into trying to convince Dunn not to have that read. And he was not even arguing that Cartboi is scum. Just that Dunn should not have a town read because it is

possible

for scum to replicate it.

I don't see why a townie would actually care if Dunn has a day 1 town read on Catboi, especially one Dunn openly said he is not married to

Spoiler:

I am not disregarding the 4 people I am townreading for the rest of the game, I do think it is a good place to start though.

But there is scum motivation to stop people from forming too many town reads.

I agree and also your slot was doing the same thing in 244. I remember feeling like I was being badgered and didn't really know why people kept questioning my read on Catboi that they obviously don't agree with.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunn

I guess I land here: not really strongly townread by anyone but also not getting pressured.

That does not mean I am mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Still feels like there's probably a scum between Luke and GL but it's not something that needs immediate resolution in my opinion.

Why do you have the two of us grouped together in this thought?

I agree with catboi thinking this. My own thoughts on this game right now are 1 between your slot and Gl, and 1 between ydrasse and SirCakez. If you are town Gl is more likely in my mind, and ydrasse/SirCakez is admittedly poe. Leaning more towards SirCakez.


Looking at potential partner interactions, I see posts 337 and 361. Along with post 321. In post 430 Gl seems to be suspecting Luke, catboi, and me. I don't see any mention of their read on SirCakez besides asking me what I thought of it

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Guilty Lion

[Dunnstral]

Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.

I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.

on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez

I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia

You quoted me giving a summary of Ydrasse and SirCakez. Nowhere in the post you had quoted did I suggest that I wanted to vote SirCakez

You made this post:

Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying


SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town

what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?

And I don't think the post you quoted is showing suspicion on SirCakez.

I think you used my response to you asking if I would vote SirCakez as your reason to point towards me suspecting SirCakez after the fact, which doesn't make sense.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, I will move on you if you don’t suggest a better alternative in a better way.

I say as if power is something I have over anyone.

I've given plenty of thoughts on who I think we should eliminate, and why.

[Dunnstral]

Do you agree with my townreads on Pooky, Meuh, Catboi, and You?

[Dunnstral]

Do you agree with my townreads on Pooky, Meuh, Catboi, and You?

The squeeze there is that both catboi and you are largely getting by in my reads due to the confidence you’re placing in your town reads.

This is my basic trajectory, but I also want to challenge that.

Do you think I don't believe my reads, or that I shouldn't be townreading these players, or something else?

[Dunnstral]

It'd be nice if I knew the first thing about law. youtube videos are not helpful, or the ones I watch aren't terribly so.
Stages of trial and so on.
Been nice reading about some of the cases.
Though, I'm, not really sure how they caught the dude that lit that ship on fire. He could just deny it, unless there was some sort of alibi issue with the rest of the people on board. But it sounds slike some people died in that fire.

You ever heard of Phoenix Wright?

[Dunnstral]

I think you're developing reads more openly than you usually do on day one, I'd like to know why.

Yes this is true. I feel I have more to go off of this game, more meaningful information due to the 2 claims and having 2 townreads aside from that. Since it is a micro there are less players so that is more meaningful as well.

The reason I don't usually give reads early is that usually the early game feels like banter and/or talking in circles about the same points. And this game developed differently IMO.

[Dunnstral]

elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.

I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.

@Dunn re:548- the combination of these two posts, not the one I quoted, is what made me think you should be voting Cakez if you were acting on your reads

I didn't post "hm, Dunn seems like he should be scumreading/voting Cakez, but he's not, I'm going to ask him about whether he'd vote Cakez to test him" ahead of time because that would obviously shape any reaction or post that I got from you

I was thinking about voting Elle at this point in time, though I didn't voice that and I wasn't voting because I didn't want to push them close to an elimination too fast.

Post 179 should point out as much.

It is true that thinking Ydrasse is more towny made me think SirCakez is more scummy, though. I'm confused about the post you quoted when asking me my read, I guess.

[Dunnstral]

catboi you have paragraphs for why you suspect other people which I read and seems pretty convincing to me. Except for the part where you say we should eliminate "regardless of alignment" - that part I am not a fan of. And then you have sentences for me, saying poe, which doesn't even make sense if you have two other, better scumreads, and then "overlooked" which is based on what other people are doing.

[Dunnstral]

Ydrasse what are you seeing as wolfposting?

[Dunnstral]

after literally just playing against me as mafia feel like he should be more aware that this isnt my mafia game and also p sure he made a post earlier where hes like "when do i not have passion as a wolf" or something and like i can think of multiple times before where hes in fact been "down" or lower energy in games when it was beneficial so it's a nonpoint.

catboi, what do you think of this? Do you think it is a fair assessment?

[Dunnstral]

What does that mean Bell?

[Dunnstral]

catboi you have 2 votes on you, you're not about to be eliminated

[Dunnstral]

It was a different setup. It was pick your power, an open setup, and mafia had the informed mafia, meaning that if tracker had slipped through, mafia would have been aware of it and could safely fake claim it. In addition, marci could have picked jailkeeper if they were mafia and claimed tracker. Or they could have simply picked tracker and still have been mafia.

This game is a constructed setup, so the mod puts the roles in and it's not random. Certain roles are more likely to be given to the town than the mafia, and vice versa. Tracker is a possible provable role. But most importantly, at mass claim it will become more or less clear what alignment you are based on what everyone else claims. This is the element that was missing from PyP.

[Dunnstral]

If we get to mass claim and nobody else claims an investigative role, you are more likely to be town. If there is a strong investigative role, you are more likely to be mafia. That element was not present in PyP so Marci never self resolved.

[Dunnstral]

As for the "regardless of alignment" thing - it's partly salty on my part, no way around it, but it's also a theory I have. I think when a town player is really overconfident and trying to aggressively steer the game, they're usually wrong and usually harmful. On self-reflection, that's where all my worst moments come from. I've witnessed other players run games into the ground by being ego-driven and steamrolling everyone who opposed them. I think GL is tipping close to that in terms of how he's handling me. (Luke also does this but like I can't really suggest policy killing him because I think he's probably town)

Is this something that you are claiming that I am doing this game (but you cant kill me cause Tracker)?

They are talking about GuiltyLion there

[Dunnstral]

I was going to post this exact gif

[Dunnstral]

Anyways, Bell I don't agree with your point that having a negative reaction to something is a "choice" that someone has made rather than being a reaction.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think they're faking their madness at Catboi for calling them a tunneled noob.

I also don't think they pretend to think I'm shaming them as scum. It doesn't really make sense.

Why is this stuff town rather than NAI?

[Dunnstral]

Ydra — I feel like from her interactions with Cakez, they feel unaligned

What do you mean by this?

[Dunnstral]

Some people say that and mean "not mafia together", while others say that they think there is 1 mafia within 2 people

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ydrasse

This is what I am feeling right now. Looking back at Ydrasse' recent stances I am not impressed.

[Dunnstral]

But also the more I think about it idk if Prism if enough of a troll to put two millers in one game and that means there's probably scum in there
Blegh

For the sake of not being prodded but also not really having anything to say, I'm going to point out that it is not really "troll" to have two millers in a setup, but rather simply unexpected.

[Dunnstral]

?

[Dunnstral]

If you are suspecting me for that reason, me having a lot of thoughts at the beginning has to do more with how the game unfolded than me playing different than usual.

[Dunnstral]

So you think Ydra is the most likely to be scum?
Why are going with "I'm not impressed" as your reasoning here? In addition why aren't you afraid of outting another PR, or do you doubt that Lukewarm is one given your narrow pool?

I am looking at 600, 601, 611, and 612 and decided I didn't really think it was a town argument vs being performative

And I've become less convinced that GL/SirCakez are mafia

As for 'outting another PR', I don't feel comfortable voting for any of the players who have claimed today (Pooky, Meuh, Lukewarm, Rh9 slot)

[Dunnstral]

I was not considering that.

...You are also voting for Ydrasse

[Dunnstral]

How is WoW going?

[Dunnstral]

I didn't miss it, I wasn't thinking about it. I was thinking about who was most likely to be mafia.

[Dunnstral]

do you think scum!catboi would replace out like that?

[Dunnstral]

i wasnt claiming venge and i think all of this like. stuff about it feels like wolves trying to react to something that literally isn't there
i'm vt
my flavor's catboi. this is why it was funnier before. i also did not want to claim because it's pretty easy now to narrow down what's left

I think this makes sense.

I don't think it makes them any more likely to be town though

[Dunnstral]

I don't disagree with catboi slot being town but the reasoning in 897 is just annoying.


I didn't fully read 890 and 891, honestly, but I do like the look of it.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: meuh
I don't think there are two millers this game. Stuff isn't adding up.

What isn't adding up?

[Dunnstral]

dunny boy is it mass claim time

[Dunnstral]

SirCakez, what happened to your read on GL at the end of the last day, and how do two VT flips make you think a miller claim is more suspicious?

[Dunnstral]

I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.

[Dunnstral]

there's also a chance, if Luke is legit, that whoever he tracked was visiting scum using some kind of scum or like rolecop or roleblock

I just see no way there were only two VTs this game

So for the second part here, what do you mean?

Even if mafia are lying about their role, they still aren't VTs.

[Dunnstral]

I'm a 1-shot doctor

Flavor is Student Life's Mental Wellness Dogs

I targeted Lukewarm last night

[Dunnstral]

I'm in co-op Baldur's gate, hence my terseness

I thought it strange that RH9 went straight to Beholder before I could claim my role

[Dunnstral]

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

[Dunnstral]

Cakez hasn't even claimed his role yet, how can you think there must be mafia within the 3 of us?

[Dunnstral]

That makes no sense to me. I feel if you are mafia this is something you have to push to win, but it's hard for me to see how a townie believes that. The logic doesn't really go together. And Luke is confirmed™ to be a tracker at least but there is no consideration there.

[Dunnstral]

Balance wise Luke is town, or else town has a 1-shot doctor and a miller or two, plus SirCakes role

Again, SirCakez hasn't claimed yet so you are jumping to conclusions that don't make sense with what we currently know.

[Dunnstral]

Cakez hasn't even claimed his role yet, how can you think there must be mafia within the 3 of us?

uhh

I'm a VT, Bell and Ydra are VTs

if you three are town and telling the truth that leaves only RH9+the miller claims as possible scum

and that would mean either it's exactly Pooky+Meuh doing a double miller claim gambit or at least one of the miller claims is true, which would further mean Miller+3PRs in a 9 player game, leaving 2 scum and 3 VTs. that just doesn't feel likely on the whole

I don't see what is wrong with the possible setup at the end.

[Dunnstral]

You said you were agreeing with Pooky, not SirCakez.

[Dunnstral]

Do you disagree that the tracker has to be town for balance?

[Dunnstral]

I think both claiming we can't all fit AND claiming that I must be town for balance are confusing claims before we have that info

SirCakez strongly implied that they were not a targeting role

[Dunnstral]

Me non-VT
Whoever Luke tracked visiting someone

[Dunnstral]

Not sure what I'm getting at I guess. I'll be quiet and let SirCakez claim

[Dunnstral]

OK so I do think Luke has to be town. Doesn't make sense for town to only have a 1-shot doctor and a 1-shot roleblocker for power, that would be a really weak setup

[Dunnstral]

I am leaning towards SirCakez being town

[Dunnstral]

I don't see anything wrong with that setup. Keep in mind that the PRs are weaker than normal, and that miller is likely not a big factor in balance. Do you think there is an issue with town having three prs in a micro?

[Dunnstral]

Mafia wouldn't have known all the power roles on night 1. They could have avoided killing Luke because they (correctly) assumed that he would be protected.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn why did you claim specifically the 1-shot aspect of your role

did you consider withholding the number of uses

I did consider doing that but valued true claiming for figuring out the setup and if other claimed roles are real. That and I didn't want to cause problems if fake claiming led to people questioning my role, like if there were another gated protective role in the setup.

[Dunnstral]

I agree Luke's claim has to be town at this point because there's not enough town power otherwise

I'm thinking either

1) Cakez just trueclaimed his role as a scum RB
or
2) Dunn is some kind of scum investigative that targeted Luke

what's extra wonk is that neither Cakez nor Dunn see any issue with eachother's claims

I think at least to Dunn's credit he is just coming off kind of obtuse whereas Cakez pivoted from "scum in the PRs" to just immediately accepting Dunn's claim - feels like he may be strategically positioning and not wanting to make an enemy out of Dunn

Town players can have the role roleblocker, even if it is uncommon.

[Dunnstral]

I don't see anything wrong with that setup. Keep in mind that the PRs are weaker than normal, and that miller is likely not a big factor in balance. Do you think there is an issue with town having three prs in a micro?

the issue is that on D1, town is not going to eliminate any claimed PR and likely not a miller claim either

so for all 5 players claiming roles to be town, it means Prism is handing the scumteam a D1 where only 2 townies are miselimmable

that seems quite clearly unbalanced, my understanding is that's why most 9p setups have generally around 2 PRs unless it's explicitly a role madness type of deal

I question whether "town won't eliminate a miller day 1" is true or not.

[Dunnstral]

And whether mods factor that into game design.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I am being obtuse. I don't think you have a good argument for why SirCakez is the mafia over one of the millers, or why SirCakez would true claim their role as mafia instead of claiming VT.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think I am being obtuse. I don't think you have a good argument for why SirCakez is the mafia over one of the millers, or why SirCakez would true claim their role as mafia instead of claiming VT.

This is towards GL, right?

Yeah

[Dunnstral]

If you think that then it's weird that you are suspecting me after I got tracked to Lukewarm

[Dunnstral]

How is it a tactical pivot for SirCakez to believe my claim?

[Dunnstral]

If you think that then it's weird that you are suspecting me after I got tracked to Lukewarm

I think you trueclaimed.
Your play makes only real sense if you really were 1-shot.

I can't tell if you are calling me town here, but if you are I feel like you were speculating that I may have been mafia earlier

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, don't you see?

He thinks you could be a true claiming, scum-aligned, 1-shot doctor (in a game with no Vigilante) who used their 1 shot to protect the town tracker.

That is not what I've been saying.
I'm saying that Dunn is probably trueclaiming the 1-shot aspect if he is really a town doc.

Yeah this part from Luke/Dunn confused me, RH9 was pretty clearly saying that Dunn,

if town

, was being fully truthful (which also lines up with my perspective at this point)

Read the part before that. RB9 was saying that they don't think I gambit, so I pointed out that it was weird that they were considering me as mafia considering I was tracked to Luke.

[Dunnstral]

RH9 buddy can you let me know how you got from

So really, I think scum are in Pooky/Meuh/Cakez.

to

I kind of think we just yeet GuiltyLion here I believe in all my PRs

I guess this is OK with me.

Also in this post they have a completely different poe:

If you think that then it's weird that you are suspecting me after I got tracked to Lukewarm

I think you trueclaimed.
Your play makes only real sense if you really were 1-shot.

I can't tell if you are calling me town here, but if you are I feel like you were speculating that I may have been mafia earlier

Well. I felt like you could be scum, due to the fact that Cakez barely makes sense as scum with half of everybody but like you and Pooky.
And Pooky hasn't felt like scum to me, so reasonably this limits scum to you/GL/Cakez/Meuh.
However, I have been thinking that Cakez can actually be Town and I've been mindmelding with Meuh, leaving the scumpool to you/GL.
On the other hand, your play if town, makes more sense coming from a world where you trueclaimed than one where you're playing elaborate mindgames like Luke has been suggesting.

[Dunnstral]

One thing that sticks out in Cakez' favour here is that he was already implying being a PR that didn't visit last night before Dunn had claimed
As scum, he had no need to commit to claiming PR this early and could've waited to choose when his turn came to claim, but he was already directing himself towards that before even knowing who Luke had visited and this person's role. If scum Cakez softs PR and then Dunn claims something like full doc, he's forced to retract his soft or to claim a weak PR, and neither looks good.
This contrasts with Dunn who was forced into a position where he had to claim PR and then did so, self-admittedly being scared of another PR claiming and looking bad because of it. Cakez has backed down on this so it's less significant, but pushing the idea of scum existing in the PRs while deciding to soft PR himself as scum is pretty risky
imo Dunn handled the PR situation in the safest, most textbook way, while Cakez did it in a weird, risky way that doesn't seem like how scum would want to approach it

If you think I was forced into having to claim doctor as mafia, what mafia role do you think I have that targets Luke?

[Dunnstral]

I think that my number 1 choice for elimination today is Meuh.

But, still have not been able to re-read the game

Life is not giving me the time I usually put towards mafia games atm x.x

My problem is if Meuh is mafia why do they claim miller on day 1 after Pooky claims miller?

[Dunnstral]

To expand on my point in 1266, it is weird to me that RH9 has an impression of me that I don't gambit, but does not seem to be considering that when thinking I could be mafia. I think that if RH9 is being truthful, they should look at Luke's track result on me and conclude that I am more likely town than not, because to them I would have to be gambitting to be mafia.

Now that I am thinking about this, they also very quickly jumped to saying I might fake claim beholder at the start of the day. Doesn't this also contradict their thinking here, since that would be a gambit?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: RH9 E-1

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Meuh

[Dunnstral]

I think if I were a mafia investigative watching Luke track somebody instead of looking for other power roles would be silly. What exactly would I do with the information that I gained?

Somebody, I believe Pooky, said that my purpose would be trying to look like a doctor by targetting there, I believe. That would be a gambit. I'm not sure if RH9 ever said that part, but they didn't question it either, and they never really explained why I would be targetting Luke.

[Dunnstral]

and Meuh also not really resisting the wagon despite wanting Dunn or myself is giving me heebie jeebies as well

Yeah I agree with you there

[Dunnstral]

(and it seems like the lack thereof got Dunn to vote for me, which is more than me commenting on it would've done )

What do you mean by this?

[Dunnstral]

Where did that happen? The mind meld and solving

[Dunnstral]

So is there any interest in a Meuh elimination?

Otherwise I will probably switch back to RH9.

[Dunnstral]

Does the fact that all of [GL, Dunn, Cakez] have voiced a meuh preference, when given a fairly even choice between Meuh and RH, mean that going for RH first the correct choice?

Because from my pov, that means either:
-pooky is scum,
- RH+Meuh is then scum team, so order does not matter, or
-a member of the scum team just choose Meuh when they could have taken RH (and could have framed it as having liked my case, and wanting to work with the Mechanically Town Player )

Well I switched to Meuh and for a while the thread was dead silent until I asked if there was interest.

I think individually Meuh's reaction makes them pretty likely to be mafia. She starts by being really quiet while Rh9 is being run up for elimination. When Pooky responds they post but have nothing to say. When prodded further they say they are upset that Rh9 is being eliminated and shows where they were 'mind melding.'

Now seemingly out of nowhere, when pressure has shifted to Meuh, and it is looking like the elim is either Rh9 slot or Meuh, they suddenly scumread Rh9 slot and point back to their iso to do so.

To me this feels very opportunistic and looks like town Rh9 with mafia Meuh based on her actions.

[Dunnstral]

I think your read on RH9 changing is motivated by self preservation rather than reevaluation.

You first went to their iso to quote where you were mind melding, and then only later stated that when you did so you started scumreading them.

[Dunnstral]

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I do think 1073 is a weird perspective to have if you are a VT. I get that you will say that it slipped your mind but how?

I said 2 VTs as a reaction test to see if scum would take the bait and treat it as a slip, which seemed to have happened.
I feel like it might've gotten a bit out of hand, though.

If I were mafia with RH9 I'd like to believe that this exchange wouldn't have happened.

[Dunnstral]

Well there's an hour between those two posts. If we were mafia together I'd like to think we'd be talking with each other after their 2 vt slip and come up with something better than 1097, which is in response to my post and looks bad for them.

[Dunnstral]

Well I switched to Meuh and for a while the thread was dead silent until I asked if there was interest.

The thing that I was seeing in particular, was cakez progression on it.

He was agreeable to the RH wagon when it was building up steam (both 1089 and 1292), but easy to back off of the idea when thread focus shifted else where (1112 and 1330).

Like he wanted to look good any time the RH wagon seemed inevitable, but also happy to see a possibility for him to make it through the day.

Even after you voted Meuh (1303), Cakez did not switch over until after both me (1327) and pooky (1328) both voiced support for the Meuh wagon, and that was when cakez was suddenly switching to your Meuh wagon, AND arguing that that be the wagon that goes through (1330).

That Me->Pooky->

Hamilton Video

-> Cakez sequence of posts felt more like he was responding to the apparent Meuh elim support, then actually having a reason to suddenly think that Meuh is definitavely a better wagon then RH.

Spoiler: that series of posts

RH9 and Meuh are currently the only 2 I would be interested in.

same

VOTE: meuh whatever i feel like this is the best shot of hitting scum rn
GL vs RH9 feels like a coinflip

I believe that SirCakez thinks there is one scum in the vt claims, and 1 outside of it. They say that rh9/GL feels like a coin flip so they would be more confident in their read on Meuh then.

I'd vote any of GL/RH9/Meuh

And its like, just before this conviction in the Meuh > RH posting, he had them as even.

I am not understanding how cakez got from here, to arguing that Meuh is the definitively better elim.

SirCakez is potentially looking at the game like this:

One mafia in Dunn/Luke/Pooky/Meuh

One mafia in RH9/Guiltylion

And they suspect both RH9 and Guiltylion, but townread Dunn, Luke, and Pooky

[Dunnstral]

Something in my brain wants to claim that scum!Meuh would be more likely to remember the situation she was in when she made the mind meld claim- because the current state of the thread would likely influenced her course of action

While town!meuh would more easily mix up the time line - because (1)her explaining why she said she mind melded with RH and (2) her wagon forming, would be 2 non-intrinsically linked events that happened in her mind.

(I also don't think that scum!meuh would choose to out and out lie about the order of events)

I don't actually know how much stock I am putting into that take, but it was my first reaction to seeing it her realize that she had the timeline wrong.

When she voted for RH9, she posted:

VOTE: RH9 I'd rather not die

Doesn't this mean that her vote on RH9 was due to not wanting to be voted out instead of because they started scumreading RH9?

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn, Cakez, and GL -- thoughts on Ali's catch up?

They say there is too much power roles but then seems to townread all of us.

Are they considering millers as power roles? Or do they think we could all be town after all?

[Dunnstral]

Also I wished they talked about Meuh and Guiltylion

[Dunnstral]

So I guess I'd say it's scummy

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

Something in my brain wants to claim that scum!Meuh would be more likely to remember the situation she was in when she made the mind meld claim- because the current state of the thread would likely influenced her course of action

While town!meuh would more easily mix up the time line - because (1)her explaining why she said she mind melded with RH and (2) her wagon forming, would be 2 non-intrinsically linked events that happened in her mind.

(I also don't think that scum!meuh would choose to out and out lie about the order of events)

I don't actually know how much stock I am putting into that take, but it was my first reaction to seeing it her realize that she had the timeline wrong.

When she voted for RH9, she posted:

VOTE: RH9 I'd rather not die

Doesn't this mean that her vote on RH9 was due to not wanting to be voted out instead of because they started scumreading RH9?

Her vote was not inclucded in my thought.
I was talking about her misremembering the timeline between her wagon forming, and her making 1319. (Which is not a one and done post, but required her to go through RH's iso)

Like the reality of it was, she made 1319 while while she had 1 vote, and RH had just hit e-1. Then her wagon formed. Then she voted RH for survival.

But when she recounted it in 1387, she seemed to think that she was already at e-1 when she wrote 1319.

I think it is possible for Meuh to be mafia and still get things mixed up. They don't have to be playing in a calculating way, they can be responding to things reactively.

With that said I'm not sold on that but what she was doing there is otherwise scummy IMO.

[Dunnstral]

SirCakez what do you have to say about 1460?

[Dunnstral]

I wish we would hammer I don't think there's much more solving to be done here without a flip

Cakez like you thought here, isn't the idea of getting a flip here sooooooo nice? You can put someone on E-1!!

what r u talking about who can cakez put on e-1

I think they are trying to trick SirCakez into hammering Alisae by acting like they are at e-2. That is how I am reading this at least.

[Dunnstral]

I think that I am committing to the idea that RH is the better elim.

The transition from RH e-1, to Meuh e-1 was too smooth and easy. Not a hint of resistance from anyone but me - actually, every single one of the potential Meuh partners happily encouraging the Meuh elim > the RH elim.

That transition feels like the scum team either:
-Does not care which one goes over because both are town.
-Prefer the Meuh elim, beacuse Meuh is town.
-Is exactly Meuh+RH, and therefore could not influence the transition basically at all.

None of those worlds have scum meuh / town RH, which makes me think that RH/Ali is the more correct play.

adding onto Meuh/Dunn theory, then this would mean Dunn playing around his current good standing + a Meuh bus would be enough to ride through to a win. also there'd still be an option for RH9 to get limmed first, he may not have even fully expected that Cakez and I would both jump onto his wagon, he floated going back to RH9 1326 before Cakez switched soon after

So I voted RH9 to e-1, waited a bit, and then decided to bus Meuh before Pooky could hammer?

1326 comes 20 hours after the mod's vote count above it, the thread was completely silent and nobody was showing any support to my idea of Meuh being mafia at that time, that is why I offered to go back.

[Dunnstral]

I think if theres a mafia in the three PRs it would have to be Dunnstral for balance reasons

what did dunn do to luke at night then aside from visit?

I think if Dunn is scum is maybe an investigative like rolecop or tracker and Luke outing meant his role didn't have any real utility so it was worth building a plausible claim in the event that he's tracked

I do think tracker + RBer is a lot of power in the event scum dies D1, maybe both scum have PRs

We didn't mass claim on day 1. If I were a mafia tracker/rolecop I'd be looking for other town power roles. It's not true that my role wouldn't have utility. Also I think your full theory here, that I gambitted my power role and then bussed my buddy is convoluted and reaching for a reason to call me mafia rather than coming to a natural conclusion.

[Dunnstral]

Also I wished they talked about Meuh and Guiltylion

do you think this is scum-indicative, and if so, how

Because they are not pushing or townreading the players who I feel attention should be focused on. Yes I do think it is scum indicative.

[Dunnstral]

I didn't say that was the team. I don't think it is Alisae + Meuh because of the way Meuh turned their read around on the slot for survival.

[Dunnstral]

I feel like every once in a while someone checks in and goes “Meuh/Dunn, amirite?” and that makes me think Dunn is even more likely to be scum, cause scum would adoreeeeee lumping me in there and getting me as a mislim at some point (I think Pooky, Cakez, elle, and now GL have all pushed it?)

Open question to the Player List:

If you were choosing between only Catboi/RH/Ali Slot and Cakez, which would you choose?

I’d stick to Alisae

Looks like not even you believe your point in 1488

[Dunnstral]

That seems really scummy to me. 1488 seems to assume Alisae will flip town and that they will be able to push this angle tomorrow, and yet they show no interest in moving their vote onto somebody t hey are accusing in that post.

[Dunnstral]

Now kill pooky tomorrow ty

You're not dead. Why aren't you voting for Meuh over yourself?

[Dunnstral]

DUNNSTRAL COME SANITY CHECK ME

Well yes a no kill would likely make both Luke and SirCakez use up their power roles. With that being said this is not something unique to me, anybody who is maf here could no kill. Even SirCakez could do that and make it look like they blocked somebody.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn literally fucking said he trueclaimed because he didn’t want another PR claim to CC and think the power level is too high, and then get limmed
This is not how a townie thinks about claiming??????? What the actual fuck???

I didn't want to make things messy by causing a cc because I was fake claiming as town

[Dunnstral]

It’s just Dunn Pooky stop infighting

Yesterday you said that mafia were trying to pair you and me together. This does not seem to line up with that theory.

I'm still leaning towards my Meuh/Dunn theory but that opening is not good Cakez

Also this is so obviously telegraphing a move later and feels like a manufactured trajectory

?? What an I telegraphing? I'm town and the first thing you said today is you want to lim me, that's Not Good especially when Meuh was your preferred lim yesterday

There's 2 mafia remaining right now

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, right now I am leaning towards it being Meuh and GuiltyLion

[Dunnstral]

which one do you want to yeet first

and why is Cakez like very town to you

Ideally we figure out the game today and the order doesn't matter. With that said I prefer voting for Meuh.

SirCakez had no reason to claim 1-shot rb and I think their role makes sense in the setup. Also I see Meuh and GL as more scummy.

[Dunnstral]

the way I see the game is;

there must be at least one town in Dunnstral/Cakes because there's no way the setup is a two shot tracker + 2 millers in a micro that's just too weak.

so if one of dunnstral/cakes is mafia, as long as the other one who is town believes that person is town - we have basically lost because they tight.

if dunnstral is mafia, cakes won't vote him, if cakes is mafia, dunnstral won't vote him.

so disregarding those game states because those are loss states - our only chance to win is if dunn/cakes both town

then that's just me pointing at GL/Meuh and each of GL/Meuh pointing at the other 2

which means Cakes/Dunnstral need to agree on a solution of which person between the three of me/gl/meuh is town.

personally I'm not sure if Cakes/Dunnstral are T/T its a bit sketch to me and I've wavered on one side or the other but I'm willing to pass it to the incredible duo and let them make the decision.

I am willing to listen to arguments for why SirCakez is mafia. I personally don't think that mech-related arguments are going to change my mind as I am stubborn and believe what I believe. Right now I see Meuh/GL as more likely than SirCakez, do you think that pair is unlikely?

[Dunnstral]

I'm still leaning towards my Meuh/Dunn theory but that opening is not good Cakez

Also this is so obviously telegraphing a move later and feels like a manufactured trajectory

?? What an I telegraphing? I'm town and the first thing you said today is you want to lim me, that's Not Good especially when Meuh was your preferred lim yesterday

I've said for a while I think one scum in VT claims, one scum in PR claims. The other VT claim died. Doesn't really leave other options for scum in the VT claims!

Do you have any reasoning for scumreading me beyond this

I'm not scum so falling back on a mech POE argument as reason to vote me is not exactly compelling to me here or demonstrating that your intentions are honest

let's entertain the idea of a Meuh/GL team. That would make Luke, Dunn, and Cakez all town with unlimmable claims on D1. That would also mean Pooky is town miller, which means you'd expect the tracker to investigate elsewhere. what exactly is the scumteam going to do if one of them gets limmed on D1? like that setup would be just absurdly townsided, how do you not see that?

How are we "unlimmable claims" when mafia can fake claim stuff. Also Luke was the only PR claim on day 1 and they weren't targeted with a kill at that point despite being as you claim an "unlimmable claim", so doesn't that suggest mafia were wary of a protective?

[Dunnstral]

I feel that yesterday Meuh was arguing that I had a mafia partner trying to pair Meuh and I together, but their vote was on Alisae while they were saying that. It felt like they were talking out of both sides of their mouth.

[Dunnstral]

Pooky if it were SirCakez would they be with Meuh or GuiltyLion?

[Dunnstral]

Yeah why are you listening to Meuh if you think they are mafia?

[post[1596[/post] is a weird post

[Dunnstral]

1596

[Dunnstral]

I get what you're saying about a lack of no-kill being weird if maf!Dunn & town!Cakez but a town!Cakez could also potentially get tracked by Luke and soft cleared

Uh I was tracked by Luke though but you don't seem to care about that. This is another weird post to me

[Dunnstral]

yo cakeboi and dunny where r u two on who we yeet today if you two actually want to hold hands and believe in each other

I am still thinking Meuh and GuiltyLion is the most likely.

[Dunnstral]

There is a chance that you are making the final decision in limlo between Guiltylion and either SirCakez or I

[Dunnstral]

in final 3 I mean

[Dunnstral]

Do you have a preferred elim?

[Dunnstral]

GL is also saying Meuh. So either there is some manner of bussing going on, or it's a team without Meuh on it. I lean towards bussing

[Dunnstral]

Do you still believe that SirCakez and Guiltylion are an unlikely pair?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Meuh

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

What are we waiting for now. GL are you saying you think it is Pooky and I too?

[Dunnstral]

To me it looks like the mafia have decided to kill me at night and are now trying to convince SirCakez to vote for Pooky in final 3.

Or at least shopping around for the above possibility, seeing what SirCakez thinks

[Dunnstral]

So what was the purpose in GuiltyLion asking SirCakez for their read on Pooky?

[Dunnstral]

Whether that's Ydrasse, Cakez or me, there's always a juicier target to go for, it's never one of them.

If I remember correctly you were bouncing between catboi and myself too. I have pointed out, multiple times, that your vote on RH9 did not make sense when you were saying you thought mafia were trying to make us look aligned.

Why does Dunn want Luke to claim first?

Why would I want Luke to claim first as mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Oh and you pivoted to Pooky at day start along with GL. Neither of you went for each other. And when asked to give reasons on Pooky you blew that off and now you've changed your stance.

So you didn't have reasons for Pooky scum, right? You were going to take some time to make something up but you didn't actually have a reason to think it was Pooky, so your stance switching there was made up too.

[Dunnstral]

Luke tracked me to him. That means I do have a power role.

If I were mafia, what would that role be?

[Dunnstral]

I've already answered that question when you asked it before.

You said tracker or rolecop.

If I were a tracker, I would know that Luke targetted me, so I wouldn't need Luke to claim first.

If I were a rolecop, I would have no reason to target Luke because their slot claimed on day 1.

[Dunnstral]

To me it looks like the mafia have decided to kill me at night and are now trying to convince SirCakez to vote for Pooky in final 3.

Or at least shopping around for the above possibility, seeing what SirCakez thinks

Also this is such a confusing thought? In what world does maf not kill Cakez here lmao

Why is it clear that mafia would kill SirCakez?

[Dunnstral]

There was a bit of this day where we were considering whether SirCakez could be mafia. I don't believe you chimed in at his defense.

[Dunnstral]

I think you revealed your mafia mindset by saying that SirCakez was "obviously" the mafia night kill. I propose that this was not clear or obvious to the town.


Got a response to 1808 or nah?

[Dunnstral]

I do not think that I am generally very good at convincing people I am town once I am on the "back foot" as pooky put it, and the thread starts being about me (to be fair, this is probably as true if I were scum as it is when I am town).

And seeing as how I hit E-1 already, and I don't plan on throwing myself all into "proving myself" or what ever, so I think I'll just claim.

I am a 2-shot Tracker.

So, yall can discuss if yall are killing me for claiming, or letting me live for being a PR, and decide on that basis.

And I'll just skip the hassle of trying so hard if I am dying today.

They claimed 2-shot tracker here. I wouldn't need to determine shot count.

If being seen visiting someone else would have been bad, I could have holstered whatever role I had as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

I think you revealed your mafia mindset by saying that SirCakez was "obviously" the mafia night kill. I propose that this was not clear or obvious to the town.

Got a response to 1808 or nah?

Omg mafia mindset!!!!!!!! SO TRUE!!!!!!
I can't believe I thought that the obvtown player is going to be killed at night, that would never happen :eek: :eek: :eek:

Again. Pooky was speculating that SirCakez could be mafia, my memory is that I argued that it was more likely to be You and GL and that we shouldn't eliminate SirCakez. I don't remember you coming to the defense of this "obvtown player".

[Dunnstral]

Luke can lie and be what, a 3-shot tracker? Why does that matter enough to risk getting tracked if I am mafia?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral do you still have cakes as town

Yeah, right now I am leaning towards it being Meuh and GuiltyLion

which one do you want to yeet first

and why is Cakez like very town to you

Ideally we figure out the game today and the order doesn't matter. With that said I prefer voting for Meuh.

SirCakez had no reason to claim 1-shot rb and I think their role makes sense in the setup. Also I see Meuh and GL as more scummy.

the way I see the game is;

there must be at least one town in Dunnstral/Cakes because there's no way the setup is a two shot tracker + 2 millers in a micro that's just too weak.

so if one of dunnstral/cakes is mafia, as long as the other one who is town believes that person is town - we have basically lost because they tight.

if dunnstral is mafia, cakes won't vote him, if cakes is mafia, dunnstral won't vote him.

so disregarding those game states because those are loss states - our only chance to win is if dunn/cakes both town

then that's just me pointing at GL/Meuh and each of GL/Meuh pointing at the other 2

which means Cakes/Dunnstral need to agree on a solution of which person between the three of me/gl/meuh is town.

personally I'm not sure if Cakes/Dunnstral are T/T its a bit sketch to me and I've wavered on one side or the other but I'm willing to pass it to the incredible duo and let them make the decision.

I am willing to listen to arguments for why SirCakez is mafia. I personally don't think that mech-related arguments are going to change my mind as I am stubborn and believe what I believe. Right now I see Meuh/GL as more likely than SirCakez, do you think that pair is unlikely?

Pooky if it were SirCakez would they be with Meuh or GuiltyLion?

yo cakeboi and dunny where r u two on who we yeet today if you two actually want to hold hands and believe in each other

I am still thinking Meuh and GuiltyLion is the most likely.

There is a chance that you are making the final decision in limlo between Guiltylion and either SirCakez or I

VOTE: Meuh

[Dunnstral]

I would move to GuiltyLion if you prefer that

[Dunnstral]

They are both confirmed mafia to me after all

[Dunnstral]

i'm tempted to hammer dunn but I wanna see what cakes thinks

There's always the chance that we flip a mafia pr today, making it clear that I am a town doctor

[Dunnstral]

Also Meuh is being disingenuous in their arguments

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Dunnstral]

Pooky why wouldn't we just hammer them here?

[Dunnstral]

If GL is confirmed to you why wouldn't we eliminate them. I'm not faking any kind of slip

[Dunnstral]

Yes I know that. So it would be foolish for me to "pretend to be mafia" with you. It doesn't make any sense.

[Dunnstral]

If GL is confirmed to you why wouldn't we eliminate them. I'm not faking any kind of slip

how is GL confirmed to me?

I guess they aren't to you, I misunderstood 1838 as you saying it wasn't me/meuh and I thought that you didn't believe it could be sircakez/me due to power roles not lining up

[Dunnstral]

I read it as if we were mafia together it would be 11d chess hence very unlikely

[Dunnstral]

i know it would be foolish but I can't understand what you mean by "why wouldnt we hammer them here" other than trying to do some kind of shady fake scumslip to make me look bad

I was wondering why we wouldn't eliminate guiltylion if we were sure on them being scum today, vs still potentially eliminating me wrongly. Especially since if GL flips a mafia power role I feel that my claim as town doctor is much more likely as mafia wouldn't have multiple town power roles.

[Dunnstral]

i want to give GL one last chance to redeem himself instead of spouting nonsense about me being mafia we got like four days I believe in Tiger Criminal

I post first ask questions later

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Meuh

[Dunnstral]

SerCaques

[Dunnstral]

That was a close game near the end