Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[OutWorldER]

drew is town and one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

mafia is such an easy game

VOTE: bugspray

[OutWorldER]

one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

how does this kind of either/or read happen

bugspray's comment I do think is scummy and performative: to ask the question genuinely in the first place would require them to believe that the NRG (3 people) + listmod signed off on a game that had a role which is no longer normal/considered simple. It comes off to me as faking a dumbtell and also as a way to say "hey if I was scum I could've just asked this in scum PT".

But it being a genuine brainfart is

not

outside the realm of possibility. I've had dumber moments in my time playing mafia. If this is the case than you, Psyche, could very easily be scum trying to capitalize on a townie blunder, which is how I arrived at the either/or read since at the time I posted that your vote looked a bit more thought out than Drew's; Drew's looked more like a kneejerk reaction and it's why I lean town on him.

[OutWorldER]

drew is town and one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

mafia is such an easy game

VOTE: bugspray

I have the same thoughts as this, actually. Although I'm leaning more towards psyche being scum, at the moment.

I mostly agree with Luca on this. From the few games I looked at before this, the mafia tend to just lurk in the shadows at the start while town do a good job of killing themselves off. So I was inclined to be less suspicious of whoever responded first (drew/bugspray/psyche). While bugspray could well be bluffing with the question I just thought it was more likely they were town. However, I think it's either psyche or none of them, and that at least two of the mafia are currently lurking in the shadows. I chose a random lurker (jacob) to start off, who seemed perhaps to be a bit annoyed that I had voted him? Maybe because he's mafia? who knows

strong newbscum vibes from this post. Describing someone as a "random lurker" on the 37th post of the game, when a good chunk of players may not have even had the chance to participate yet, is quite strange, and the reads here feel fake, like ketchup is simply trying to emulate the mafia players they were witnessing in games he had read. Describing Jacob as "annoyed" with their vote also seems off-base with Jacob's actual posts before this one.

[OutWorldER]

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

strong newbscum vibes from this post. Describing someone as a "random lurker" on the 37th post of the game, when a good chunk of players may not have even had the chance to participate yet, is quite strange, and the reads here feel fake, like ketchup is simply trying to emulate the mafia players they were witnessing in games he had read. Describing Jacob as "annoyed" with their vote also seems off-base with Jacob's actual posts before this one.

Ok I might have been a bit fast and loose with my terminology I apologise. I meant, a randomly (well with psychic feel ofc ofc) selected person from anyone who hadn't posted yet, knowing that many of them are completely innocent. The post I was targeting was the quote below...

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

...two things stand out to me.
One, the use of 'let's' rather than formulating it as a question like 'can we slow down a bit and think about it?' seems a bit controlling, like mafia trying to redirect the flow of the game? (again I reiterate these are just speculations).
Two, the sentence 'I'm here by the way' being thrown on to the end as like a throwaway kinda feels like a mafia member going through the mental checklist of things they need to do (type a message in the thread: check!), especially after I explicitly stated that I'd be on the lookout for non-posters.
Plus just the overall feel of the first sentence gives off annoyed vibes, mindless being quite a negative word.

thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

yeah Jacob's probably town

[OutWorldER]

strong newbscum vibes from this post. Describing someone as a "random lurker" on the 37th post of the game, when a good chunk of players may not have even had the chance to participate yet, is quite strange, and the reads here feel fake, like ketchup is simply trying to emulate the mafia players they were witnessing in games he had read. Describing Jacob as "annoyed" with their vote also seems off-base with Jacob's actual posts before this one.

Ok I might have been a bit fast and loose with my terminology I apologise. I meant, a randomly (well with psychic feel ofc ofc) selected person from anyone who hadn't posted yet, knowing that many of them are completely innocent. The post I was targeting was the quote below...

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

...two things stand out to me.
One, the use of 'let's' rather than formulating it as a question like 'can we slow down a bit and think about it?' seems a bit controlling, like mafia trying to redirect the flow of the game? (again I reiterate these are just speculations).
Two, the sentence 'I'm here by the way' being thrown on to the end as like a throwaway kinda feels like a mafia member going through the mental checklist of things they need to do (type a message in the thread: check!), especially after I explicitly stated that I'd be on the lookout for non-posters.
Plus just the overall feel of the first sentence gives off annoyed vibes, mindless being quite a negative word.

thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx

"trying to redirect the flow of the game" to what end? I need you to answer that because I can only think of one scenario that would be the case, and in that scenario it would mean your stated townlean on bugspray makes no sense.

"thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx" this feels incredibly fake

[OutWorldER]

one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

how does this kind of either/or read happen

bugspray's comment I do think is scummy and performative: to ask the question genuinely in the first place would require them to believe that the NRG (3 people) + listmod signed off on a game that had a role which is no longer normal/considered simple. It comes off to me as faking a dumbtell and also as a way to say "hey if I was scum I could've just asked this in scum PT".

But it being a genuine brainfart is

not

outside the realm of possibility. I've had dumber moments in my time playing mafia. If this is the case than you, Psyche, could very easily be scum trying to capitalize on a townie blunder, which is how I arrived at the either/or read since at the time I posted that your vote looked a bit more thought out than Drew's; Drew's looked more like a kneejerk reaction and it's why I lean town on him.

you are seriously misrepping this. people make mistakes very frequently. there is so mental gymnastics to ignore occam's razor. i had the concern the moment i read the game thread after checking my role pm and decided to immediately ask it publicly

how I am misrepping it when I outright acknowledge the possibility of it being a mistake and mentioned that Psyche might be scum because of it?

[OutWorldER]

yeah Jacob's probably town

Why?

I'm not really feeling the bug wagon and I think Jacob's vote is probably the worst of the bunch

Both the posts I quoted are weird but they're weird in the way I expect from a newbtown, if that makes sense. I also think the desire to take control of the gamestate after (perceived) disorder is very townie.

[OutWorldER]

Black if you're not feeling the bug wagon will you vote ketchup with me?

[OutWorldER]

-SNIP-

Hu Tao and Jacob may have had votes but they were far from the points of discussion at that time. All eyes were on bugspray. The lines of thinking and discussion at that time would've continued much the same as they did without Jacob's presence. The theory you've described here is patchwork at best.

My mind went off track when I said your bugspray townlean made no sense, disregard that.

The additional shade thrown at Hu Tao here also ruffles me, what's your read there?

[OutWorldER]

asked two ppl, got one answer

I did answer Psyche though, as well? Post 85

[OutWorldER]

Sure, that's fair

I'm looking forward to hearing your scumcase on bug. Your confidence is a little jarring but that might be because I'm rarely confident in my reads, especially early

I'm always very confident in my read on certain players, and Bugs is one of them. I know Bugs is scum, and Bugs knows I know they're scum, and I can understand their frustration as I always catch them out very early in the game.

So you have extensive meta with bug? Can you post a game you've caught them before this early?

Yes, it's been a few years since I played Mafia so I expected it to be different this time around, but I can clearly read Bugs as scum once again.

Here is an example of me scumreading Bugs very early doors and pushing non-stop for their elimination. It took until D3 to finally make it happen:

viewtopic.php?t=85345

I reference in this game as well my ability to read Bugs well. There are other examples I can provide if necessary, although this alone should be sufficient.

unrelated to the game at hand but the game you linked gives me depression every time I get reminded of it

[OutWorldER]

I think I agree with Luca's solve except I'd replace Black with iavh

This is not to say I townread Black I just think iavh's posts are worse.

[OutWorldER]

I think I agree with Luca's solve except I'd replace Black with iavh

This is not to say I townread Black I just think iavh's posts are worse.

What posts? Have you ever played with iavh before?

never played with iavh before but I think the Hu Tao push is bad and most other posts feel like filler

[OutWorldER]

Dann how caught up are you and what do you think of bugs wagon/Luca's case

[OutWorldER]

Dann how caught up are you and what do you think of bugs wagon/Luca's case

i'm not clear what exactly you are asking me for here OWER

simply put i think luca is probably a townie tunneled on another townie and as such im looking for scum assuming that game state

my instinct would be that there was a maximum of one scum on my wagon when i replaced

I was mostly just trying to get a feel where you stand on the major events of the game so far, as well as gauge your reaction to Luca's scumcase on Bugs.

[OutWorldER]

Maybe I'm delaying the inevitable, but if Dann flips town then at least I know I wasn't part of it.

scum post

[OutWorldER]

Maybe I'm delaying the inevitable, but if Dann flips town then at least I know I wasn't part of it.

I don't think scum ever says this out loud

But why would Town say it? There's a difference between "I think Dann is town so I'm not voting him" or "I think there's a better vote than Dann here" and what ketchup is actually saying in that post, which is entirely focused on his own image.

[OutWorldER]

ower are you scum reading me

I was scumreading bugs and that largely carried over to you

it might be shifting though because I'm mulling over in my head if ketchup's post implies being informed about your alignment

[OutWorldER]

thats another thing too it kinda feels like ketchup knows that dann flips town

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

[OutWorldER]

I answered with the few reads I have, unless you want me to make up reads

are you having trouble reading the game?

also why do you townread psyche

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

Ehh...again, like I said, the way ketchup is playing around the Dann lim feels less like he townreads him and more that he's simply informed Dann is town. Limming ketchup here is smarter because of that, at least how I see it.

And frankly, after being able to sleep on it, I just don't think the case is all that you've cracked it up to be. Bugspray was independently scummy in this game, I agree with that, but I also agree with Dann's 437 in that they also just didn't really get a chance to play the game. Dann's play so far has been a lot townier and I feel like letting him cook for a bit longer.

pedit:bruh

[OutWorldER]

"Sudden flip"? I've been suspicious of ketchup pretty much since the game started, and started pushing him when new evidence suggested that the other scumread I was pushing (bugs/Dann) could've been wrong.

[OutWorldER]

I mean, yes, you're correct in that I wasn't really committed to the Bugs wagon; It was the first vote I made this game off of some slightly-better-than-rvs reasoning. You're also correct in that for the most part I've wanted to switch my vote to ketchup for a while now; I didn't previously because I still had the feeling that Bugs/Dann could flip scum and didn't want to dilute the votes by pushing a vanity wagon. I now feel that Dann's less likely to flip scum and so I switched to ketchup.

[OutWorldER]

I mean, yes, you're correct in that I wasn't really committed to the Bugs wagon; It was the first vote I made this game off of some slightly-better-than-rvs reasoning. You're also correct in that for the most part I've wanted to switch my vote to ketchup for a while now; I didn't previously because I still had the feeling that Bugs/Dann could flip scum and didn't want to dilute the votes by pushing a vanity wagon. I now feel that Dann's less likely to flip scum and so I switched to ketchup.

No, I think if you were town and genuinely scumread ketchup more then you would have voted him earlier. The reason you stayed on the Bugs wagon as long as you did was because you were worried about how it might be perceived - Bugs at one point probably seemed like an irredeemable slot, and you needed to be seen to be pushing that elimination. You tested the waters by seeing if Black could be persuaded into voting Ketchup, and then otherwise waited until Dann replaced in, at which point you so eagerly jumped from that wagon while using flimsy reasoning regarding Ketchup's 323.

I stayed on Bugs as long as I did because I felt, at that time, Bugs's slot could've flipped scum, so even though I scumread ketchup I didn't feel a reason to switch. My vote can't be in two places at once, so I had a choice between voting on a wagon that I felt reasonably good about, with a wagon composition containing nobody that I outright suspected, or I could push my own vanity wagon that nobody else seemed to want. I chose to play with the team and consolidate on Bugs. Now I feel like the team is wrong and I want to wagon elsewhere, because I think Dann is townier than his predecessor, and I think ketchup's interactions towards Dann feel like scum playing around a highly SR'd townie.

These are the actual reasons that I have for my vote switching in the way it did, and instead of considering any of that it feels like you're only considering worlds where I'm scum and I have an ulterior agenda, instead of the actual reality which is that I'm town and I simply disagree with your read.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

Ehh...again, like I said, the way ketchup is playing around the Dann lim feels less like he townreads him and more that he's simply informed Dann is town. Limming ketchup here is smarter because of that, at least how I see it.

And frankly, after being able to sleep on it, I just don't think the case is all that you've cracked it up to be. Bugspray was independently scummy in this game, I agree with that, but I also agree with Dann's 437 in that they also just didn't really get a chance to play the game. Dann's play so far has been a lot townier and I feel like letting him cook for a bit longer.

pedit:bruh

You sus me for toe reading Dan when you’re townreading Dan??

I'm not suspecting you for "townreading" Dann, and I think I've made that point entirely clear multiple times. There's a difference between townreading somebody and simply knowing that they will flip town. The former is standard, the latter is a perspective slip.

[OutWorldER]

i return

Gypyx's interactions with Dann give me the vibe she doesn't actually believe in her Dann vote which concerns me

[OutWorldER]

Luca, do you feel your Dann wagon is all town rn? Or I guess more specifically what makes you convinced scum is scrambling to save him rather than bussing him?

[OutWorldER]

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

i think I disagree with the big paragraph of this post about perspective slips and etc. but otherwise I just think it's a town post. "there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations" is a very town mindset phrase imo.

[OutWorldER]

I just wanted to add one more thing before I go out - the fact that you (OutWorld) switched so quickly from heavily suspecting Bugs to giving Dann the benefit of the doubt, and then jumping on a tenuous reason to vote Ketchup instead, is mightily suspicious.

I feel as though you would have remained on the Bugs wagon had they not replaced out, while hoping people would compromise on Ketchup instead, but in Dann you saw an opportunity to turn the tide on this, given his reputation for being a competent scum player. I feel like you got a little too excited upon his replace-in and gave yourself away, OutWorld.

"Sudden flip"? I've been suspicious of ketchup pretty much since the game started, and started pushing him when new evidence suggested that the other scumread I was pushing (bugs/Dann) could've been wrong.

I mean, yes, you're correct in that I wasn't really committed to the Bugs wagon; It was the first vote I made this game off of some slightly-better-than-rvs reasoning. You're also correct in that for the most part I've wanted to switch my vote to ketchup for a while now; I didn't previously because I still had the feeling that Bugs/Dann could flip scum and didn't want to dilute the votes by pushing a vanity wagon. I now feel that Dann's less likely to flip scum and so I switched to ketchup.

we've had this literal same conversation before already

[OutWorldER]

what did you intend for me to understand that I apparently didn't get the first time around?

[OutWorldER]

i think it's Luca / Hu Tao / Black

no cares and this just serves to get street cred points post game as a "aha i knew it"

i aggressively dislike this post but I'm not sure if it's scummy or just a playstyle difference

[OutWorldER]

im kinda feeling a gypyx vote here but i'm also at the point where I don't think my vote has any real sway

[OutWorldER]

i think it's Luca / Hu Tao / Black

no cares and this just serves to get street cred points post game as a "aha i knew it"

i aggressively dislike this post but I'm not sure if it's scummy or just a playstyle difference

Is it just a tone thing or what's the idea here

i should note that i'm in the middle of a depression outburst so that's probably not my usual me here

it is mostly tonal. i do disagree with like the general idea you've presented (i think presenting solves can be a good barometer of where someone stands in the game and how they're thinking about it) but mainly like the snark felt discrediting of Luca, like you were annoyed with him for no reason in particular

if it's IRL-related though i guess that just explains it then

[OutWorldER]

i can agree with the deltawave read actually, especially after seeing those responses

i think it feels really convenient that deltawave is absent most of the day and only shows back up when dann is near death and seems to be trying to push the vote through, while almost entirely sheeping Luca.

VOTE: Deltawave

[OutWorldER]

i think it feels really convenient that deltawave is absent most of the day and only shows back up when dann is near death and seems to be trying to push the vote through, while almost entirely sheeping Luca.

Oooh yeah I'm pushing the vote on someone who I think is scum, that's totally my bad. lmao. It's very funny that the two people I point a finger at vote me immediately after.

why is your energy for pushing dann far different here than it has been the rest of your ISO and why did you only decide to go super aggro once you thought Dann was at E-1

[OutWorldER]

that doesn't explain the tone shift here though

reading like 691 doesn't give off the same vibe as your responses to dann. it honestly just feels like you don't want dann to be able to participate

[OutWorldER]

Votecount 1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

Dannflor (7):

Hu Tao, Jacob24, Doctor Drew, Luca Blight, DeltaWave, ketchup777, Gypyx

HAMMER

DeltaWave (2):

Dannflor, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (1):

Black

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

Not Voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Psyche

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Spoiler: Color Coded VC

Votecount 1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

Dannflor

(7):

Hu Tao, Jacob24,

Doctor Drew

, Luca Blight,

DeltaWave

, ketchup777, Gypyx

HAMMER

DeltaWave

(2):

Dannflor, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (1):

Black

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

Not Voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Psyche

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

looking back at the votes with the retrospect of Dann's flip and Delta dead, Jacob's vote actually seems really bad (267)

i could also see Gypyx's hammer coming from scum

gun to my head though I think it's probably Jacob

VOTE: Jacob24

[OutWorldER]

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons, from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: project quotes

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

scum is probably more newb than veterans then cause i think this kill comes from a lack of confidence they'd be able to spin delta as town after that

Or it comes from a veteran trying to find a way to frame all the newbs

I literally hinted at my role in a not so subtle way, so I doubt it

tbh unless you think the team is litterally Ketchup / Project / Jacob there is at least one person in the scumteam who's aware of how to go around things

Why can't it be that?

Tbf though, I am shit at PR hunting as scum.....so I could just be overthinking that a bit.

That would be a hell of a newbie scum team!

Votecount 1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

Dannflor (7):

Hu Tao, Jacob24, Doctor Drew, Luca Blight, DeltaWave, ketchup777, Gypyx

HAMMER

DeltaWave (2):

Dannflor, OutWorldER

ProjEctRy (1):

Black

Hu Tao (1):

iamveryhappy

Not Voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Psyche

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-03 02:13:32)

Mod Notes

None

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

I just meant it more from the point of view, let’s not narrow down our pool to thinking one scum on the wagon, when it’s likely multiple.

Kinda wanna throw project into the sun not gonna lie, although i'm purely going off of tone and what i feel is not a very solving oriented thoughtprocess

but alas, Black scumclaimed and as such i might fight her to the death

how did Black scumclaim

[OutWorldER]

ok pipe dream scumteam : Black / Project / Psyche who are trying to push us towards killing on the wagon

where do you think the scum were in relation to the dann wagon then?

i think dann's wagon going through with no real counterwagon is probably indicative of at least 1 or 2 being on his elim

[OutWorldER]

ok pipe dream scumteam : Black / Project / Psyche who are trying to push us towards killing on the wagon

where do you think the scum were in relation to the dann wagon then?

i think dann's wagon going through with no real counterwagon is probably indicative of at least 1 or 2 being on his elim

dann's wagon going through is indicative of it being town and no one else really being accused, maybe scum hopped on, maybe not,

like the fact is that pretty much everyone actively playing was on it, apart from like, you

, which i guess could prompt us towards looking for scum in those hiding in those low post counts

one could even say that the short lived project wagon could be indicative of his evil intents

i'm not sure i'm liking the dismissive-ness here, especially since the bolded actively supports what I was saying

[OutWorldER]

ok pipe dream scumteam : Black / Project / Psyche who are trying to push us towards killing on the wagon

where do you think the scum were in relation to the dann wagon then?

i think dann's wagon going through with no real counterwagon is probably indicative of at least 1 or 2 being on his elim

dann's wagon going through is indicative of it being town and no one else really being accused, maybe scum hopped on, maybe not,

like the fact is that pretty much everyone actively playing was on it, apart from like, you

, which i guess could prompt us towards looking for scum in those hiding in those low post counts

one could even say that the short lived project wagon could be indicative of his evil intents

i'm not sure i'm liking the dismissive-ness here, especially since the bolded actively supports what I was saying

I mean, i think you misunderstood me

if town is pushing town

and that no real other wagons are emerging

is scum even encouraged to go out there and show themselves?

otherwise for the dismissiveness maybe i'm getting a ltitle bit excited, ok that's fair

i understand the logic here but on the flip-side, if you're scum than it's no real or perceived to put out a scumread/vote on a player who is being universally SR'd by townies, especially if the mislim in question is considered to be a fairly good player

-SNIP-

there are two flaws in this logic

a) were I scum here, I'd have two partners, both of whom would also have to OK the kill on DW
b) i'm not that bad at this game

[OutWorldER]

*real or perceived risk, woops

[OutWorldER]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

[OutWorldER]

ye

Spoiler: selfie

[OutWorldER]

i'm kinda sus of gypyx but I think the project vote has some good basis behind it

VOTE: Project

[OutWorldER]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

[OutWorldER]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

I still think the switch to Ketchup looked fake although obviously not for the same motivations, and in hindsight

I think you would have pushed harder than you did to keep Dann alive if you were Town

- it was kind of a half-hearted attempt, which I first read as scum reluctant to make their defence too obvious.

But as I said, I'll give you a fair chance and I don't want to become bogged down like I did on D1.

i mean, yeah, but there's also only so much I can do to try and dissuade people from voting somebody or try to get them on a different wagon, and after a certain point it felt like nobody was actually listening to me

[OutWorldER]

Is Drew being serious about his role? If so, what’s the rational for revealing now?

Putting him out of the potential scum pool and also revealing to us that the kill was Delta

Yes and I was only 1 shot anyways.

And didn't want any confusion about what was going on with eh NK's

why would you reveal this

[OutWorldER]

better for town if scum don't know how many shots you have because it makes the night actions less predictable for them

i don't think it's a huge issue but idk, if I were in this scenario I'd only really claim vig and keep the amount of shots to myself.

[OutWorldER]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

Probably too easy to read Dann's slot as townie when you already know his alignment.

There was nothing particularly indicative of him being town until later in the day

, when his fate was virtually sealed, in my opinion.

you're saying this like this an objective statement

[OutWorldER]

*is an objective statement, i can't english

[OutWorldER]

like idk i'm sorry cause i'm feeling kinda mean saying that but where exactly is outworld taking my solve seriously? his argument even views it more as an attack of the "Let me put out my solve" mindset, which it was in the end i guess

I'm not getting the vibe that OWER thought your solve wasn't a real thought but maybe I'm just missing it

i assume this argument revolves around 694 in which case yes I interpreted the solve as a joke

that's actually the specific problem I had with that post

[OutWorldER]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

Probably too easy to read Dann's slot as townie when you already know his alignment.

There was nothing particularly indicative of him being town until later in the day

, when his fate was virtually sealed, in my opinion.

you're saying this like this an objective statement

Well, from what I can see you've never really explained your Dann TR beyond '

he looks townier than Bugs

'. So, while my statement was indeed undeniably subjective, it's difficult to really follow your progression on this read.

i never really got the chance to explain. i thought Dann was townier than bugs because he was still attempting to solve despite his position in the game. in particular I was of the mindset that his interactions towards Drew didn't come from scum in his position.

[OutWorldER]

yeah I probably should've, but again, I just didn't have it in me at the time


378 and other such posts are what was making me think he was town, since I don't think scum in that position would be trying to bait reactions since in my experience reaction baits usually tend to be naturally scumread.

[OutWorldER]

i started townreading dann by association of thinking ketchup was scum at 347

in retrospect I was probably just confbiased about my ketchup read which turned into a dann townread

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

Hmm, I'm not really vibing with this vote. It feels like you're just playing it safe this game by sticking on your Ketchup vote when I feel as though he has done enough since yesterday to warrant a re-read at least.

I can see your point about Psyche, but for my money he is a better bet than Ketchup at the moment Can I ask you to give your thoughts on other players in the game you haven't commented on much?

which slots are you wanting me to comment on specifically? i'm kind of low-efforting right now since a stressful game of mine just ended and getting ready for college, so I do kind of need a minor break but I can comment more when I'm feeling more motivated/got more free time

[OutWorldER]

i'm here

sorry life and college prep are eating at my free time

uhhh I remember there was an outstanding question from Luca I need to answer, one moment

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

Hmm, I'm not really vibing with this vote. It feels like you're just playing it safe this game by sticking on your Ketchup vote when I feel as though he has done enough since yesterday to warrant a re-read at least.

I can see your point about Psyche, but for my money he is a better bet than Ketchup at the moment Can I ask you to give your thoughts on other players in the game you haven't commented on much?

which slots are you wanting me to comment on specifically? i'm kind of low-efforting right now since a stressful game of mine just ended and getting ready for college, so I do kind of need a minor break but I can comment more when I'm feeling more motivated/got more free time

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

I'd like to hear your general thoughts on the game at some point, but in the meantime maybe explain your Ketchup read - have your thoughts changed at all there, or is it still entirely because of Ketchup's 323? Also, what are your thoughts on Black?

i really just do not like how ketchup navigated the dann wagon at all. 323 was a big part of it at the time but in retrospect pretty much all of his posts around the dann wagon were sus. 658 stands out to me with the language "I am scared of how powerful he could become if we don’t vote him out now" feels like an incredibly odd statement coming from a townie.

Black I've kind of gotten weird vibes about because comparing the town game I had with her and this game, she feels less...explosive? Pointed? Not sure how to describe it, but I also don't really detect an agenda in the posting so, I just have a big null there.

[OutWorldER]

trying to catch up now

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

alright it turns out ketchup decided to townpost while I was away so i'm fine binning him for now

Hu Tao feels a lot more active than the other game I played with her but that may be due to her being doc in the other game.

Gypyx's majority off-wagon theory makes

sense

but I still think her hammer on Dann was really sus and so I'm concerned it's a deflection from that.

[OutWorldER]

Jv's entrance is pretty towny

[OutWorldER]

honestly

VOTE: Titus

project's slot wasn't exactly impressive, and Titus's entrance here has just a different kind of

energy

than previous games I've had with her. There's a projected confidence in posts like 1077 and 1262 but it feels fake

[OutWorldER]

alright no more content its back to grinding guilty gear bye

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: quote

i'm not putting too much stock in the DeltaWave NKA cuz it could've happened for a million different reasons,

from someone thinking her reads were a genuine threat to them

all the way to scum thinking she was a pr for whatever reason

Ok so looking at Delta's ISO:

VOTE: Ketchup777

I can elaborate but just look at the ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

started off by accusing me

Initial thoughts -

Hu Tao - I get a town vibe from these posts.

Gypyx - I'm not sure yet.

ProjEctRy - A lot of filler. Neutral leaning sus.

Dannflor - 228 is so, so, so bad. Criticism of Drew seems forced. 277 is the kind of OMGUS I don't like. Drew being defensive as cited in 315 is not a scumtell at all. Everyone wants to stay alive no matter the wincon.

bugspray - The infamous multitasker poster. Let's face it, it was a stupid post, but was it scummy? A town PR would never out themselves like that. I could see a whacked out VT doing that, though.

Luca Blight - I don't really like the whole "I found the scumteam on post 24" stuff but this seems like it's coming from overexcited town than scum. It's just too much attention to draw on page 2. It's a bold move for scum to pick fights and make enemies that early in the game. OTOH, the reads are based on thin logic. But then again, that's what town does. Will say null town. Points deducted for not recognizing my meme. The confidence in 130, presuming it's Luca!Scum and they're trying to get a miselim on BG, seems unlikely. With BG almost being limmed I wouldn't expect scum to take such a strong position because it would get them trouble later after the flip.

Jacob24 - I can't tell you exactly why, but Post 88 didn't rub me the right way. Overall a sideliner.

iamveryhappy - I get the impression that they are staying close to the sidelines despite participating in the discussion. I think this is scummy.

ketchup777 - Newbie town probably.

Psyche - Overall I like the posts.

DeltaWave - Obvscum

Black - Not sure at this time.

Doctor Drew - Seems to ask a lot of questions without providing a lot of opinions. Not really liking that.

OutWorldER - Shading bugspray for the multitasker post isn't entirely unjustified but the reasoning on #85 seems like there's a hard attempt to justify that vote. The same thing kind of goes for #94.

VOTE: Daan

then after unvoting me, Delta sussed Project, Jacob, OutWorldEr, Drew, Dann and iavh. a lot of susses, the last 3 of which now seem/are innocent. I agree we don't want to run mind games but in case we decide to look deeper, these seem to be Delta's enemies.

Dann/OutWorld/someone else mkes sense to me. Maybe iavh

only you, OutWorldEr, remain in Delta's trio read. Convenient you try to get us not to worry too much about the reasoning for Delta's death?

I assumed because of the post I snipped, which specifically called me out as the one remaining person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. I thought you were implying that I had killed Delta out of fear for her read on me, to which I countered that were I to be scum, then I'd have two other partners who would also have to OK that fear-kill, on a player who had a fair share of scumreads going into D2.

Ok sure I'll give you benefit of the doubt for now.

But I never said that you were the one to suggest the idea of killing Delta. It seems like you misread what I said

where a town might see the ambiguity and consider both possible cases (Outworld the suggester vs Outworld the oohilikethisideasureletsdoiter).

How else was I supposed to read the post? I don't understand what you're trying to get at. You all but directly insinuated that me saying I wasn't putting much stock in NKA was an attempt to deflect from me being the only person in Delta's solve who hadn't flipped. That only makes sense if you think I was the most responsible for the decision to kill Delta.

[OutWorldER]

Hu Tao feels a lot more active than the other game I played with her but that may be due to her being doc in the other game.

Which game? I wouldn't really describe her as "active" here

Mini Normal 2316. Hu Tao had 71 posts by the time she was faded in that game, a number she matches here and the day isn't over yet. The posts she is posting here feel more substantial than the ones they had in the other game.

Also I misremembered she wasn't doc they fake-claimed doc, for some reason.

IDK regardless I think Hu Tao is town here, unless she just tries harder as scum for some reason.

[OutWorldER]

I am a Macho Neapolitan.

I will keep my targets for both nights a secret until massclaim is finished

[OutWorldER]

can't we just vote scum out?

We already lost too much time from the massclaim to just waste it further on your superficial "just in case" plan

i'm not sure why both of you are so impatient about this when the day has basically just started

[OutWorldER]

While you're here, claim yours too

fine

N1 targeted iavh, drew unfortunately shot them

N2 targeted ketchup, confirmed he is a VT.

[OutWorldER]

Why did you target IAVH?

I was having trouble reading IAVH and it didn't seem to me they were softing PR, so I figured they were either a VT or scum that would be caught out eventually.

[OutWorldER]

basically sort of the same reasons that Drew shot them, really

[OutWorldER]

we can't no-lim here now that I've claimed because I cannot be healed under any circumstances and nobody gets anything from that NKA, unless Psyche hasn't used his shot/Hu Tao blocks my killer.

i should be more active but I'm currently mulling over which claims could be real or not, and if it's possible that all of them are real or not. My first instinct is that there would be too many confirm-able towns should all claims be real + the vig but also adding more PR's to a setup does weaken my Neapolitan significantly so I'm sort of at an impasse. Both Watcher and JK make sense in a setup with multi-tasking scum and I was speccing a Tracker/Watcher pretty heavily from the start of the game. Watcher could also semi-confirm JK/Neapolitan target if it sees one of our shots so I'm not actually sure if Psyche's claim is fake or not.

also the interaction Ketchup brought up I think does have merit in that town could just lose both Nea and JK in one fell swoop should JK + Watcher target me were I to claim D1, only getting a single scum lim as compromise.

[OutWorldER]

did it become default? I went away for two years and so I didn't really know how the standards developed.

I guess I just kind of assumed it was a big deal because of the whole mess with bugspray

[OutWorldER]

we can't no-lim here now that I've claimed because I cannot be healed under any circumstances and

nobody gets anything from that NKA, unless Psyche hasn't used his shot/Hu Tao blocks my killer.

i should be more active but I'm currently mulling over which claims could be real or not, and if it's possible that all of them are real or not. My first instinct is that there would be too many confirm-able towns should all claims be real + the vig but also adding more PR's to a setup does weaken my Neapolitan significantly so I'm sort of at an impasse. Both Watcher and JK make sense in a setup with multi-tasking scum and I was speccing a Tracker/Watcher pretty heavily from the start of the game. Watcher could also semi-confirm JK/Neapolitan target if it sees one of our shots so I'm not actually sure if Psyche's claim is fake or not.

also the interaction Ketchup brought up I think does have merit in that town could just lose both Nea and JK in one fell swoop should JK + Watcher target me were I to claim D1, only getting a single scum lim as compromise.

ok, we lose a bit of voting power, but isn't it worth the risk? or am i underestimating how bad 4v3 is

I think at 7 alive it goes down to needing 4 to elim, which means 1 town voting wrong and the scumteam can coordinate a 3-man vote to insta-hammer somebody

Flavor Leaf, Alch, and myself did that to win a game one time.

[OutWorldER]

oh

spicy

[OutWorldER]

we're in melo unless hu tao blocks the shooter tonight

as such I don't want to come to a hasty decision

psyche's claim i think is sus but Gypyx has been sussy for a long while now

i need to go and prep for D&D tonight and I also want to wait for Luca, so nobody fuckin insta-hammer pls

[OutWorldER]

psyche's claim i think is sus but Gypyx has been sussy for a long while now

Why is Psyche's claim sus?

i think it's convenient that Psyche had a guilty on someone and only swung it once Gypyx looked to be going down by virtue of You and Black dogpiling on her.

i do think Psyche's claim could be real in terms of mechanics/setup balance but the timing is sus to me. That said, I also recognize that Psyche could just Like That.

[OutWorldER]

okay but like

you got the guilty and in Simples scum can't have Ninja's so like

were it me I would've have just come out swinging regardless of town's wishes

but that might just be playstyle diff

[OutWorldER]

I think there's a chance either of these are scum or

maybe even both

i actually do not think this is a far-fetched theory

the famed double bus

they were both looking like real candidates to get yeeted going into this day

[OutWorldER]

scum 1v1 each other so the other gets treated as town going past ELO

but that might be overthinking things

[OutWorldER]

anyways, actually leaving now

[OutWorldER]

actually i'm not leaving hold on one second thank you for reminding me of a question I wanted to ask Gypyx

just beautiful. just a magic wonder. the aurora borealis? at this time of year? on this day? localized entirely within this thread?

who do you think gypyx's partners are

[OutWorldER]

While you're here, claim yours too

fine

N1 targeted iavh, drew unfortunately shot them

N2 targeted ketchup, confirmed he is a VT.

Can I ask why ketchup was your n2 check?

I was on the fence about his slot and I had also just come out of a game where a newbie scum made it to ELO by simply looking innocent and clueless so I wanted to avoid a similar situation as what happened with Jupiter in that game to the best of my ability.

[OutWorldER]

i just woke up chat will i get anything out of reading JV and Gypyx yell at each other for *checks timestamps* six hours what the fuck

[OutWorldER]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I just townread her

VOTE: Psyche

Let's wait for Outworld to give his thoughts at least.

i mean, i'm not sure I have much insight.

i've scumread Gypyx essentially since she hammered Dann and that hasn't really changed especially with how D2 ended up playing out. The only hiccups I have was being unsure Psyche's claim could exist with all other PR's being real and just not really liking the timing of Psyche's claim. But the former I'm leaning towards being able to exist in the setup and the latter can be explained away by how the massclaim ended up working out.

So all in all I guess I just want to vote Gypyx but I'm scared of being wrong.

[OutWorldER]

I'm not sure reading through a shitfight will change my perspective but if it's really important I'll try giving it a proper read-through after breakfast

[OutWorldER]

okay real talk I'm very skeptical of masons claim actually

because that'd be way too many confirmable towns in one go.

like D2, Drew vigs somebody, I get a VT result, and Masons reveal, that's 5 confirmed towns on D2. town should just win in that scenario unless scum has uber-power/gets a lucky shot

ya'll better not be neighborizer/neighbor pulling a gambit

[OutWorldER]

is it possible for the scumteam to be JV/Luca/Gypyx and this is simply the hardest bus known to man

[OutWorldER]

here's the thing like

i'm at that point where I don't think Psyche's claim is necessarily fake

but I'm in absolute disbelief of the masons claim unless it's just neighborizer pulling a gambit

[OutWorldER]

i guess if there are 5 TPR's out of 10 townies with 3 scum

that gives me an 8/13 chance to get a Not VT Result, while also being macho and therefore liable to die immediately after claiming barring WIFOM on scum's end

maybe it's not impossible all claims are real, idk I'm bad at setup balance but I try

[OutWorldER]

IDK I'm sort of at the point where I want to trust my own gut rather than try and outguess the mod/NRG.

[OutWorldER]

actually would a no lim be a bad idea or what's the deal

no lim just kills me unless scum WIFOM's to keep me alive for the ELO distraction/they don't think I'm actually macho. i don't think we get anything out of it.

[OutWorldER]

Only way I'm scum is if I'm scum with gypyx and ower I think

Why ower?

Hu claimed jailkeeper

Ower claimed macho

there wouldn't be a macho role without any protectives

unless thomith playing us

it's a simple setup, there wouldn't be a macho role as a red herring, and the NRG seems to dislike red herrings regardless

the only WIFOM in my macho role is whether I'm being truthful about it or not

[OutWorldER]

actually would a no lim be a bad idea or what's the deal

no lim just kills me unless scum WIFOM's to keep me alive for the ELO distraction/they don't think I'm actually macho. i don't think we get anything out of it.

wouldn't you want to flip so that we can be assured that the masons are fake?

okay but I'm not guranteed to flip, that's the thing.

especially if Luca/JV are the scumteam they can just kill someone else to avoid the scenario you're presenting here. My Nea result can't guilty either of them regardless.

[OutWorldER]

Spoiler: Image

the energy in this thread rn

anyways I also have stuff to do today I'll be back later as well

[OutWorldER]

V/LA for at least 2 days

My computer is running into unforeseen technical issues and I have to do a bunch of bullshit to try and get it to stop giving me an aneurysm

sorry i know people are waiting on me for stuff but I need to take care of this first and it might involve ordering new parts/sending it to a repair person so

[OutWorldER]

best case scenario SFC/chkdsk will fix my shit and I'm back tomorrow

worst case scenario I must order a new SSD and/or RAM

[OutWorldER]

my computer is usable once again

i am skimming in order to try and catch up, responses as soon as I can

[OutWorldER]

the big thing i'm seeing on my skim is the possibility of scum blitz-hammering

which is only a possibility if Hu Tao, specifically, is scum. If Hu Tao is town and her claim is real than if scum do a 3-man blitz hammer and Hu Tao guesses correctly which one does the kill during the night (or jails the target, if you end up voting me out this day) than scum will simply lose, automatically, basically.

[OutWorldER]

a lot of fucking words dawg

[OutWorldER]

i'm mostly caught up I just have to do a big thonkin

[OutWorldER]

so the thing I need to big thonk about has been my struggle since Psyche claimed Watcher result, which is that I've scumread Gypyx since the EOD1 but I simply do not think the masons can be real. I kind of have to believe that, given my position and role. So if I want to vote Gypyx here I'm taking a gamble that JV/Luca are scum doing an incredibly hard bus here.

Which isn't...impossible, the more I think about it. You see a red check on your buddy and you simply switch to bussing them to try and take the towncred. The only hiccup I have with that is why bus Gypyx instead of voting against Psyche, which is not irreconcilable with Hu Tao's claim and the idea I presented earlier that scum aren't able to blitz-hammer due to the potential of losing the game on the spot with a lucky jailkeep.

I don't know anymore, the game has gotten confusing and my PC shitting itself these past two days has only dampened my ability to wrap my head around things

I'm just going with my gut

VOTE: Gypyx

[OutWorldER]

I do think the 1v1 does need to be resolved today simply because multiple players have shown an indication that they're not really going to change their mind about the 1v1.

JV has shown zero inclination to reconsider Gypyx, same with Luca. Hu Tao with Psyche. If the 1v1 is simply going to play out the same but on a different day I don't see the point in not resolving it now

[OutWorldER]

i didn't even see your post 3555 until the pedit when i was about to post so do with that what you will

you're wrong about me being scum though

[OutWorldER]

i don't know how to convince you at this point ketchup that the masons aren't real and i'm frankly out of energy to try

[OutWorldER]

i also just scrolled through a bunch of pages of you calling me confscum so why would I believe you?

[OutWorldER]

i don't know how to convince you at this point ketchup that the masons aren't real and i'm frankly out of energy to try

How many mafia do you think were on Titus’ wagon

JV/Luca have to be scum so anywhere from 0 to 1

[OutWorldER]

why is it a lot more likely to be a real masonry when there is already Macho Nea/Vig

even setting aside Hu Tao's claim which I'm inclined to believe the mech spec about Masons not being able to exist with the above two roles rings true to me.

[OutWorldER]

Wait so you think scum is gypyx Jackson luca?

At this point? Yeah.

It makes sense to me because IIRC you were one of the first claims, Hu Tao? If they push for Psyche here they run the risk of losing the game off a lucky JK. Bussing Gypyx, killing you, and then winning the game with a bunch of towncred makes sense to me.

It also makes Jackson's earlier dissonance about there "not being too much town power" when he "knew" there were masons in play make more sense.

[OutWorldER]

I think scum thought I'd be an easy Elim tomorrow. So they went for titus

I mean, it makes just as much sense in that scenario then that they'd vote off the Titus wagon to keep credibility to push your elim.

[OutWorldER]

anyway what was that delta kill LMAO

we thought she might've been a PR

[OutWorldER]

well the other part about is that most of the people who were major town voices at that point also looked like they were going to go completely away from the scumteam on D2. Luca looked like he was going to be voting Drew, etc. also worrying about protective roles and all that.

[OutWorldER]

of course then Drew turned out to be vig but we still got through that day

[OutWorldER]

i said it in the PT but Masons + Vig is kind of a fucked-up setup tbh

I think Town would've actually been very well-off had they followed ketchup's suggestion to massclaim on D2.

[OutWorldER]

think this is on the townsided edge of setups really so congrats to scum for pulling through

i mean yeah if we had guessed wrong on who to send out for the kill tonight we lost the game on the spot

although I'm not sure if that's a function of the setup or just how things ended up playing out

[OutWorldER]

what i'm hearing is that we need more role madness games

[OutWorldER]

yeah fake-claiming a guilty here was probably the way to go

it might've been better if I had simply faked a guilty on ketchup instead but also maybe not considering a lot of people already scumread gypyx