Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[SuperfluousNinja]

Most of you turned all that shit into scummy just because Oats is abrasive....
Which isn't even true after Oats/Roden up to any standards.

I think you're misstating the case. My beef with him is that he's manipulative and that he doesn't engage in good faith discussion with people. Frankly his abrasiveness is an X in the town column for me, just because I think being outright HOSTILE to a townie as scum is so egregious that I don't want to think that's actually what happened (the "reading comprehension" thing is indeed a personal attack). So all of that is to say, it's just his unsatisfying conversations with people that really did it for me, where he cherry picks things and doesn't look at the big picture.

And Dannstral is right on the money about how he never really initiates scum wagons or does any sort of "I noticed that person X seems really scummy for this, what do you guys think", he does mostly just piggyback onto existing things. OOO gives him credit for "good analysis" but as far as I can tell, he's still just pighybacking, drumming up some reasons to suspect anyone. It's not like scum can't make a valid point about anything.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja
Going 1v1 until one of us dies.
Most damning evidence in all game.

Oh no!

Anyway, I am back

. Planning to catch up and then really drill down into the isos of my scum reads of oats / vivax / gob and see how I still feel about that team.

Hahaha I say this when I see people voting me too sometimes

I'm glad someone else caught the meme

[SuperfluousNinja]

are we talking or not?

He asked you to talk about it. Bit of a scummy play from you OoO. here

Are you literally just so dense man?

Can we not with the insults, please

[SuperfluousNinja]

A lot of the playerbase seems protective of ninja, maybe they know something we don‘t.

I also see things I don‘t want to mention.

Well Vivax, if that's more than 2 people, that should tell you something.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Alright everyone, unvote me temporarily. I have an announcement to make.


I am the Tracker. I tracked Naerys last night and she didn’t visit anyone.

This is why i was originally suspicious of Hu Tao’s scumclaim.

OK I finally caught up to this.

My bus is arriving in a couple minutes so my posting spree is over. No current thoughts on the claim; I need to mull it over first.

[SuperfluousNinja]

No need to read. I'm Hu Taown. Would an anime avatar ever lie to you?

"I'm Hu Taown" is the cutest argument ever, BTW lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

Yes, thank you. And I felt like it was notable just how FAST that wagon grew also, which was much faster than other wagons that day. It just seems jarring to me that after 90+ pages of discussion, suddenly there's this big collective decision that Dunnstral is the guilty one? It seems too sudden to have naturally grown that aggressively and quickly by people who were only arriving at that conclusion from their limited town perspectives.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm at the point where I need to see oats' flip to continue from here. If I'm wrong then it means my entire view of the game is wrong. if I'm right then I'm probably on the right track, at least in terms of Vivax also being scum.

I agree that it clears up vivax for me too

Me three!

[SuperfluousNinja]

I have changed my mind about the long days being pro town btw, I think it makes it hard for townies to stay engaged and keeps the discussions going around and around in circles.

I was already town reading Darth, but this one really seals it for me. This echoes my thoughts exactly.

[SuperfluousNinja]

OK I am fully caught up now. Back to work. Leave me questions if there's still stuff you want me to explain to you or answer for. As I've said all game, you are all free to interrogate me as much as you like, I have nothing to hide.

I don't really buy Gob's claim of tracker. Mostly, maybe this is just me, but if I had a power role in this game, I would do everything in my power to play well, to keep myself alive and not seem suspicious. At the very least, I'd feel obligated to try, since I am more important than just vanilla town. And Gob has done the exact opposite... I think he has outright said he's really not playing and we can probably just yeet him if we want (I need to find the exact quote but he did say something along those lines). I know we are different people and all, but I personally can't understand being given that kind of responsibility and then just tossing it in the garbage. More likely that he just made it up.

It's also a worthy play as scum. At least try to get the real tracker to say "he's wrong because I am the REAL tracker!" who can then get killed overnight. That applies also if Naerys really is a visiting sort of town role. I think Gob sees the writing on the wall and figured he'd go down swinging; that's how I see it.

Otherwise though, I'm happy with an Oats yeet also. My two strongest scum reads have now accumulated the most votes, so I FEEL like I'm on the right track here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

One last thing, I decided I'm just gonna say it and potentially spoil OOO's play, but if I'm right about it, then his play got good results anyway....

OOO my theory is that you don't actually think I'm scum, you just want to see who jumps on the wagon and follows your lead. I think this, because honestly your arguments defending Oats were, like, quite bad. Like I don't know how someone who seems to be as good as you are at this game could see how Oats occasionally says useful things and townread him on that alone, when the larger picture that has been illustrated on him raises genuine concerns that any townie that's not pursuing a gambit would take seriously. Like somehow I am just confused why you seem to miss obvious flags on people and are so intent on tunneling, whereas the majority (not the OVERWHELMING majority, but the majority nonetheless) of your posts are quite good and make me buy that you are town.

You also said you do crazy things in games, like claiming a Mason role just to save someone, so I kinda think there's more going on under the hood with your actions than you admit.

My theory is that you're trying to frame me, make a not very good case against me, and see who follows you on it, then you'll reveal something like "I purposefully made a bad case and you doofuses followed me on it, die scum!" If that's not what you're doing, then just disregard this whole thing, but if it is, I don't particularly enjoy being the target of such a gambit and so I hope I'm right and you'll just stop. Lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

I also just don't get why you called it a 1v1; I am really stuck on this. You wanted me to come after you by calling it that. So I'm just trying to make sense of why you called it that, I guess. I think I may just need to wait for you to return to straighten this out.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Gob: are you considering hammering Oats?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Who's in a hurry with Oats?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Who's in a hurry with Oats?

Thanks for the vote count, but I want to make sure this question isn't missed.

[SuperfluousNinja]

.....
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

Dannflor's big case on superfluousninja (which totally isn't some random generated amongus name) appears attractive.
His two follow up posts have that certain satisfied nailed it vibe so he can be town.
I think that perhaps he was holding back from calling those things out initially for some reason, maybe they have some history of playing together and he wanted to give superflous some room to post before deciding to push her.

Waiter, I'll have what he's having.

I'm currently iso-ing Vivax, and this stuck out to me.

He listed Dann as one of his top scum suspects in post 305. There's plenty of rationale to be found on why he thinks so prior to this.

Then, just 122 posts later, Dann posts that big analysis on me, and suddenly Vivax is eating it all up and jumping aboard, despite it coming from one of his top scum reads.

(it was also a very poor and shaky analysis, which I later pointed out)

Why would Vivax hop aboard a take from one of his top suspects like this?

[SuperfluousNinja]

His case on Ninja was impressive but big flashy posts can be scum indicative as well.

This is in reference to Dann's post on me.

At first read, it was "waiter, I'll have what he's having", but now, he inserts the grain of salt that wasn't there earlier.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Don't have time to finish that iso right now, but I would like to ask Vivax:

You were scum reading Oats for a big portion of day one, lots of stuff about how scummy you think Oats is. Now you appear pretty set on townreading him. What changed?

[SuperfluousNinja]

lol well that's easy. I've had enough of THIS clown.

VOTE: Gob

This is exe-2

[SuperfluousNinja]

Does anyone want to talk about the stuff I noticed with Vivax right before Gob suddenly ended day 2? Tell me I'm not on to something with that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

.....
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

Dannflor's big case on superfluousninja (which totally isn't some random generated amongus name) appears attractive.
His two follow up posts have that certain satisfied nailed it vibe so he can be town.
I think that perhaps he was holding back from calling those things out initially for some reason, maybe they have some history of playing together and he wanted to give superflous some room to post before deciding to push her.

Waiter, I'll have what he's having.

I'm currently iso-ing Vivax, and this stuck out to me.

He listed Dann as one of his top scum suspects in post 305. There's plenty of rationale to be found on why he thinks so prior to this.

Then, just 122 posts later, Dann posts that big analysis on me, and suddenly Vivax is eating it all up and jumping aboard, despite it coming from one of his top scum reads.

(it was also a very poor and shaky analysis, which I later pointed out)

Why would Vivax hop aboard a take from one of his top suspects like this?

His case on Ninja was impressive but big flashy posts can be scum indicative as well.

This is in reference to Dann's post on me.

At first read, it was "waiter, I'll have what he's having", but now, he inserts the grain of salt that wasn't there earlier.

You know that dude on the airport tarmac waving his pointy light things all over the place and directing traffic and such? I direct my pointy tarmac airport guy things at these.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Current reads:

TOWN
Luca
Darth
Dannflor
Hu Tao

NULL
Naerys
Grack

SCUM
Gob
Vivax

I feel quite good about the town pool and the scum reads. Final scum has got to be one of Naerys / Grack. I admit that my strong scum read of Vivax has caused me to kinda use him as a focal point and see what others have said about him, how they have interacted with him. Grack seems to have largely avoided talking to Vivax or talking about him, so although he was previously a town read for me, that's moved him into the null column for me.

But I can also easily see a world where the final scum is just Naerys.

Mostly, I think at this point I just will drop my jaw if any of my town reads are actually scum. Luca, Darth, and Dann in particular have done lots of poking and prodding and good investigative work, and Hu Tao has also, though with Hu Tao it's honestly more about how unlikely it is to me that they would pull these gambits that they have pulled if they were scum. If you fooled me, Hu Tao, welp, I tip my cap to you, I guess, and I'll keep my mind open to any interesting evidence I missed before, but I can't convince myself you're scum.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think we talk about it tomorrow

I'm just a little leery about this because I started to make a case on Vivax, and then a guy who is very very likely to be scum hammered on Oats and put an end to my push. Not unlike a basketball team calling a timeout when the other team is on a run. I don't really want that to happen 2 days in a row.

Y'all know my intent but I want to at least hear what others have to say about this and see Vivax's response before today ends.

UNVOTE:

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay. But it's just that we give scum more info and they know who to kill based on who we scumread and townread

Hmm that's a good point. Maybe I should have shut up earlier lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja
Going 1v1 until one of us dies.

Most damning evidence in all game.

Since you're going to play the "Ninja just wants me dead because I suspect her" card, look at the difference in cases here.

Me: I post an actual inconsistency by you, objective evidence. I ask everyone to sound off on it and encourage discussion on it.

You: You borrow an opinion from someone else, don't post any actual case of your own, don't do anything in the way of wanting to talk to town, talk things through.

I triple dog dare you to stop trying to say as little as possible to me, to avoid actually having to make your case on me, with real, objective evidence. Hu Tao is right that we shouldn't discuss reads more, but the cat's out of the bag for you and I, so we may as well see that through at this point, no?

How do you explain your inconsistent reads before?

[SuperfluousNinja]

BTW you must be so disappointed that your play overnight blew up in your face.

[SuperfluousNinja]

But I'll play more at another time. Tired

OH YEAH SURE YOU ARE

I vote we give Vivax as much time as he needs to get his beauty sleep, and once that's done, we enter the arena together. Sound good?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay. But it's just that we give scum more info and they know who to kill based on who we scumread and townread

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja
Going 1v1 until one of us dies.

Most damning evidence in all game.

Please note the order of these two comments. Clearly Vivax doesn't seem to be worried that scum might kill him in order to frame me.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Someone needs to unvote immediately if we don't actually want a quick hammer. This is -1

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh no it isn't jk

[SuperfluousNinja]

You are making it very hard to scumread you, Naerys. lol

Vivax / Grack are the remaining scum, then? What do you think?

[SuperfluousNinja]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

i wish gob actually spewed his team like this...

FWIW, rule 10 says this:

10. Don’t claim scum with another player in a serious manner. I will judge what counts as serious; don't toe the line. Claiming scum by yourself is fine, but please don’t lose the game intentionally by doing so.

I guess the only problem is that nothing said by Gob could be considered to have been said "in a serious matter" lol.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay based on interaction i think DP is also town.
2 scum in Hu-Vivax-Luca-Grack

I will have been extremely bamboozled if Luca is actually scum. If there's a case to be made on him, I don't think I could find the proof for it. Everything I know and utilize in a game like this has told me he's town.

As for Hu Tao, what they said about not divulging reads lists so as to not help scum secure a useful skill basically solidified them as town for me. I also still insist that Hu Tao's gambits are just not something scum would want to do. Attention is bad.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: Grack
i want this one first

Any particular reason why Grack first?

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: Grack

This is E-2 eff why eye

[SuperfluousNinja]

superfluousninja is my most confident town read

Okay, based on that my guess is that Dann used his ability on Ninja, means Ninja is town.

Why would he check obvious town

Dann marked Ninja as obvious bcz of his check. Atleast thats what i suppose

I think Hu Tao meant, why did he feel the need to check in the first place.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh interesting, I thought you meant this one below! I was just digging it up... So he has two suspicious vote interactions with Gob, not one.

VOTE: gob
i actually wish to head this way
anybody up for this

I can +1 the vote but as a guess it‘s contraintuitive for me

VOTE: gob

I don‘t see how gob is mafia trying to win the game over being fuck all not trying to solve it at all.

On the other hand I could see Oats being in charge of keeping the heat off DP while he‘s mia.

It‘s a bit unlikely for Grack to have this drastic turnaround on him if he‘s partnered with him ?

Maybe this could ease lots of doubts on Lucas, Ninjas and Dannflors side especially:

VOTE: DarthPunk

Yeah, knowing that Gob is scum, this looks really bad. His vote on him is initially very reluctant, and the very next post is switching his vote elsewhere (to someone who has towned it up pretty much all game, no less).

[SuperfluousNinja]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

I don't think that was alignment indicative.

Why wouldn't it be? It directly affects the strategy of the game. How could that not be alignment-indicative? There's nothing to learn from that at all?

[SuperfluousNinja]

The Dann kill clears most of my suspicions regarding Ninja and Luca.

How? Walk me through this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oats if you get eliminated now and flip scum you're going to get me shot.

It's really going to bolster my reputation.

That post from scum Grack would be Oscar worthy.
He did have gob and Hu Tao in his last list previously. I can see Hu Tao.

Hu Tao and ???

Is this a sort by postcount, become mafia pro game?

I have Nearys and Ninja as lock town. I think HT/Luca, HT/Grack, HT/Vivax all make sense in some way.

What about Grack / Vivax?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Hey Vivax, since you are showing some new enthusiasm for talking about why people got killed...

WOULD YOU LIKE TO TALK ABOUT WHY OUTOFORDER WAS KILLED?

Because I sure would!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Basically I want to lim HT right now.

Why does a scum Hu Tao tell people not to give reads yesterday before yeeting Gob, correctly determining that it could only help scum team strategize their kill? Why not just keep their mouth shut?

I don't think that was alignment indicative.

Why wouldn't it be? It directly affects the strategy of the game. How could that not be alignment-indicative? There's nothing to learn from that at all?

It's easy to take a position on the game that is 'correct' as both alignments.

Ergo, it is likely HT would say something like that if she believed it to be true as either alignment.

Therfore, it's not alignment indicative.

Don't you read anything into WHY a person would say it? Like, walk me through the scum thought process here. Talk me through how a scum decides on this as the right thing to say,

assuming they are aware that they are screwing themselves over strategically by saying it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Darth, when are you going to realize Vivax is playing you like a fiddle?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Maybe they wanted the malaise to set in for town.

Huh? I don't follow. Hu Tao is asking people to just do less, to just say less. To kick back their legs and see things unfold. How does this contribute to "malaise"?

There are definitely reasons as mafia to not want any discussions and to just yeet gob and have two more days of nothing, like at this point grack and Luca have not have not posted for four days.

But you do understand why reads lists at that point in time are helpful, right?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think Vivax is town.

Okay. If I spend an inordinate amount of time showing you all of his inconsistencies, will you change your mind? Because I'm pretty content to spend the next few real-time days making that case, showing you all the weird stuff he has done. Vivax doesn't seem interested in explaining any of the stuff I've brought up to him, so I guess I'll just toss it to you instead since you think Vivax is town.

Are you looking forward to having to explain a litany of hard-to-explain shit that he has done?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Darth, when are you going to realize Vivax is playing you like a fiddle?

lol, how should I respond to this Ninja?

I don't know why vivax would try to scum read me if he was

town

. He needs me right now, cause there is some pressure ITT but he is just scumhunting, trying to figure out the game.

I mean some of his takes are like WTF. But I see natural suspicion and thinking going on even if I don;t agree with the conclusions.

The bolded part, I'm going to assume you meant to say scum.

The answer is because he doesn't have anyone left to scum read.

He is scum, but he needs 2 scumspects. He can't choose me because Dannflor cleared me. And if we're content to think that, he can't choose Naerys either for picking up on what Dannflor said. He doesn't really want to make a case on Grack since that's probably his scum partner. And clearly he's not going to admit to being scum himself. That rules out 4 of our remaining 7, so he's only got a pool of 3 from which he has to draw 2 scum: you, HT, and Luca. You're really going to tell me you're surprised he is scum reading you when he has so few choices?

His takes are WTF because he's scum. It's as simple as that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Maybe they wanted the malaise to set in for town.

Huh? I don't follow. Hu Tao is asking people to just do less, to just say less. To kick back their legs and see things unfold. How does this contribute to "malaise"?

There are definitely reasons as mafia to not want any discussions and to just yeet gob and have two more days of nothing, like at this point grack and Luca have not have not posted for four days.

But you do understand why reads lists at that point in time are helpful, right?

Yes, but there is equity on both sides of the play here for town.

I think we may need to agree to disagree on this one, I am revisiting my read on HT anyway.

If you were only going to answer one of my two questions, I would have rather it been the first.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Darth

Why does Town Vivax sheep onto Dannflor's big case on me,

so soon after he placed Dannflor in his scum pool?

And then later be all "eh, it's kinda NAI"? How did he go from "waiter, I'll have what he's having" to that?

.....
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

Dannflor's big case on superfluousninja (which totally isn't some random generated amongus name) appears attractive.
His two follow up posts have that certain satisfied nailed it vibe so he can be town.
I think that perhaps he was holding back from calling those things out initially for some reason, maybe they have some history of playing together and he wanted to give superflous some room to post before deciding to push her.

Waiter, I'll have what he's having.

His case on Ninja was impressive but big flashy posts can be scum indicative as well.

[SuperfluousNinja]

The feeling of disengagement from the game that comes from not being able to post or interact for multiple days.

I don't follow, how does this general feeling stem specifically from Hu Tao asking people not to give their reads?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I don't think his read on dann was that strong at that part of the game though.

How does a bad case against a townie make him seem less scummy?

[SuperfluousNinja]

The feeling of disengagement from the game that comes from not being able to post or interact for multiple days.

I don't follow, how does this general feeling stem specifically from Hu Tao asking people not to give their reads?

We don't interact and we spend another 2 days at night?

You're answering the question "how does a break in the game contribute to malaise?". That's not the question I asked.

I asked you "how does HU TAO'S COMMENT contribute to malaise?"

[SuperfluousNinja]

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Do you not think Hu Tao's comment is basically a version of the above ninja?

No, I don't. Talking about meta game analysis is filler. Hu Tao's comment in that specific situation had a very clear purpose and intent.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You're answering the question "how does a break in the game contribute to malaise?". That's not the question I asked.

I asked you "how does HU TAO'S COMMENT contribute to malaise?"

She is advocating for a break in the game.

I think you're putting words in her mouth when you say that. You are phrasing this as if to say that the real message Hu Tao wanted to convey with that comment was something along the lines of "gosh I'm tired, let's take a break" or something like that.

How about this: it's stupid of the two of us to try and ascertain what Hu Tao was trying to say when Hu Tao can tell us themselves. I'll put the ball in their court and leave it at that.

@Hu Tao, was your comment about not giving reads, was that anything to do with some general sense of malaise, as Darth is arguing it is, or was it something else?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

Fire support for OoO . Same way we attempted to go after Luca D1.
But also cause the way you acted surprised about Dunn getting wagoned as if he was so obviously town made me go scumscum on you.

Do link a scum game of yours please. I'm curious if you're as hyperactive in such a case.

My only two games here are town, and personalitycafe.com is kaputt, so, I'm very sorry but you will not be able to use any of this weird meta shit against me. You're going to have to talk about things that we can all see with our own eyeballs.

[SuperfluousNinja]

A LOT of Hu Tao's commentary has been meta game analysis. They spent a lot of time back-and-forthing about activity levels and what that means. Meta game analysis is always an easy way for scum to just talk about stuff and appear active.

Do you not think Hu Tao's comment is basically a version of the above ninja?

No, I don't. Talking about meta game analysis is filler. Hu Tao's comment in that specific situation had a very clear purpose and intent.

Ok well in my heuristics of playing mafia, the comment lands broadly in the range of the above which means I don't think it makes HT more likely to be town than mafia in any way.

Then your heuristics are wrong. There is strategy to consider and your heuristics are just tossing them out the window. It doesn't even sound to me like you even understand what they're trying to say! You made up some stuff about malaise that doesn't even seem to apply.

[SuperfluousNinja]

it's just that I can see reasons for both Mafia!HT and Town!HT to make that post.

Here's the thing: I can too, it's just that one alignment doing it is far, far stupider than the other alignment doing it.

Scum telling people to please not help us with our night kill is just straight-up stupid. It might give a person some town points to say it, but when a person exchanges a few town points for some really terrible strategy and shooting themselves in the foot,

especially right after their teammate is getting killed

, I have a disproportionately difficult time believing that's something scum would actually want to do.

[SuperfluousNinja]

But you are indeed assigning it to something about malaise when there's no reason to think it's about malaise.

You have thoroughly confused me by bringing the malaise thing up. I just don't get that at all, sorry.

Hu Tao, were you concerned about malaise at all?

[SuperfluousNinja]

If we can agree that both town and mafia can have reasons to post that, can we just agree to disagree that it means something for their Alignment or not.

No, we cannot, because you still need to give consideration for how much more stupid it would be for one side to say it than the other.

[SuperfluousNinja]

But you are indeed assigning it to something about malaise when there's no reason to think it's about malaise.

You have thoroughly confused me by bringing the malaise thing up. I just don't get that at all, sorry.

Hu Tao, were you concerned about malaise at all?

Maybe I used the wrong word?

Well, throw some other words out there then, but I tend to think that anything that's even malaise-tangent is still way off the mark.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If we can agree that both town and mafia can have reasons to post that, can we just agree to disagree that it means something for their Alignment or not.

No, we cannot, because you still need to give consideration for how much more stupid it would be for one side to say it than the other.

I think that is a good point, but (wifom) that might be a reason to post that as mafia.

Darth, like I already said before, I acknowledge the fact that a mafia can "score some points" by saying it. I do see what you're saying here. They score some points for saying it.

But you have to consider two things:

1) Hu Tao was not in a position where they suddenly needed to drop "please read me town" material; there was no heat on them
2) It's strategically terrible, and that is way, way more important here.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm so lost. Aren't you from the same website as the rest of them?

Nope!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh I'm done with mafia after this. Good grief.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Town misreads town as scum in a game of mafia, more at 11!

I am scared of this and I am taking what you say seriously as you are basically cleared.

Otherwise I would have voted already.

For real, why do you think this means something? How many townies have incorrectly voted to yeet town in this game so far? Why is this one instance of Luca doing it so notable?

Cause his reads and actions don’t align

Are you concerned at all that the guy you are sheeping posted those quotes in the wrong order, or that he didn't tell you how many posts were inbetween, so that you wouldn't get a sense of how much time and how much post material he had to change his mind?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I dunno Vivax, how can you scumread Luca for not giving a shit about this super important wagon analysis and then ignore MY wagon analysis?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja, everyone is inconsistent. The trick is finding who is trying their hardest not to be.

I guess that doesn't apply to Luca, huh?

Though of course you get to conveniently decide for all of us that he's "trying his hardest not to be" in that case, right?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Let me take a page out of your book for a change?

Are you implying that DP is stupid for townreading me?

Stupid is not the word I would use. But I do think he's wrong, yes.

Now answer my FUCKING question.

[SuperfluousNinja]

For real I am really fucking tired of you ignoring it. I asked you several times now. Answer the fucking thing. Now.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I dunno Vivax, how can you scumread Luca for not giving a shit about this super important wagon analysis and then ignore MY wagon analysis?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I am sorry I lost my cool but I do want you to answer the question.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Look, if you are content to let Vivax play you like a fiddle, I guess I don't need to intervene. Hu Tao, Naerys, Luca and myself can handle the game from here so I don't really see much value in trying to get through to you at this point.

Can you explain why you are so certain Luca is town.

I'm sorry man but at this point of the game I just don't trust you anymore. You're either scum or you're too clouded by whatever history you have with Vivax to see what I think is pretty obvious scum behavior on his part. I don't think I can work with you and I don't think it's productive for me or town at this point.

I'm going to stick with working with Hu Tao / Naerys / Luca and work from there.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Here you go Vivax. Explain.

You mean when you assumed 1-3 mafias to have been on the Dunnstral wagon? I did look at it, and I thought you were making it all up a while after OoO began to push you.

Are you allergic to answering questions or something

[SuperfluousNinja]

Like right now you are zeroing in on

my personal read of the vote history on Dunnstral.

That is not what I asked you about.

I am asking you about the vote history itself. So you didn't like my interpretation of it, I can count on 0 hands the number of shits I give about that. What I care about was the fact that I posted the full vote history, from which YOU YOURSELF could have made any conclusions, any conclusions at all, the sky is the fucking limit, and according to you, it's such an important thing to do that you chastise Luca for NOT doing it.

And yet you don't do it yourself.

You know that whole thing you say about who is trying really hard not to look inconsistent?

LOOK AT HOW FUCKING HARD IT IS JUST TO GET YOU TO EXPLAIN THIS MINOR DETAIL TO ME

, I have been trying for DAYS and you just find every single way under the sun to avoid having to answer it.

You couldn't find more scum in the bottom of a college kid's toilet.

[SuperfluousNinja]

That last post was directed at Vivax, btw.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Of course I argue when it's convenient for me, ergo when it helps me to murder mafia, which replying to you about that particular point isn't doing, because looking at the Dunnstral wagon isn't going to help me case Luca.

I don't care about Luca. Forget about Luca for the time being. Let's pretend Luca doesn't exist.

I'm talking about this world I live in where I posted the full voting history on Dunnstral. You completely ignored it and didn't use it at all. Why?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh hey welcome back Vivax, now answer my question:

Of course I argue when it's convenient for me, ergo when it helps me to murder mafia, which replying to you about that particular point isn't doing, because looking at the Dunnstral wagon isn't going to help me case Luca.

I don't care about Luca. Forget about Luca for the time being. Let's pretend Luca doesn't exist.

I'm talking about this world I live in where I posted the full voting history on Dunnstral. You completely ignored it and didn't use it at all. Why?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

I completely disagree, because if she didn't point it out then someone would have. I noticed Dann's comment myself and suspected he might have had an inno result at the time.

It gives her a reason to be townread, which she needs at this point if she is scum.

Well shit. Good point.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: Vivax

He really needs to be the one to go today.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Especially since I'm not even posting yet.

Hi Grack. Current scum reads?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Grack can you please come in and offer some more useful content than another DP tunneling Luca sesh?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Grack can you please come in and offer some more useful content than another DP tunneling Luca sesh?

That is

not

what is happening.

It fucking better not be lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

I was ready to push Dannflor come day from this (It's like he knew of a tracker's existence, also very set on pushing Oats). Odd kill imo.

Interesting that you felt the need to comment on the kill.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Luca, who are your top 2 scum reads at the moment?

Vivax is the only clear scumread I have, but I would imagine the other would be in Naerys/Grack. I still think Hu Tao and Darth are more likely town, but I need to review again.

Naerys picked up on the fact that Dannflor said "SuperfluousNinja is my strongest town read" yesterday and deduced that he was almost certainly saying it because he checked me. There's no way a scum Naerys points out a thing like that. So IMO Naerys is also basically confirmed town at this point.

I think naerys is town but imo scum would probably bring that up too since it's pretty clear to look at a potential soft

See I dunno that I believe that it was such an obvious thing to everyone. There is, I believe, a pretty good chance that mafia just straight-up missed it. And they of all people would know that a comment like that was probably hinting at role knowledge, so why flip the guy to confirm that knowledge? Frankly I think they just messed up and I don't think it's something that anyone could have jumped on.

I guess I will need to see more from Naerys to come to a firm conclusion on this, but regardless I don't think we ought to be pushing anyone other than Vivax today.

[SuperfluousNinja]

New page, new repeat of my question, which will continue on every new page until this is resolved.

Of course I argue when it's convenient for me, ergo when it helps me to murder mafia, which replying to you about that particular point isn't doing, because looking at the Dunnstral wagon isn't going to help me case Luca.

I don't care about Luca. Forget about Luca for the time being. Let's pretend Luca doesn't exist.

I'm talking about this world I live in where I posted the full voting history on Dunnstral. You completely ignored it and didn't use it at all. Why?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yeah, Grack told me he really wants you to answer post 4453

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm not using violence or coercion dude. Where is this coming from?

[SuperfluousNinja]

By playing this game, you agree to participate in it. If I am breaking any rules by answering the question, the mod is free to tell me so. Short of mod telling me that my question is too violent and coercive, you should be safe to answer the question.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I almost want to demand that literally nobody else be allowed to talk about anything until Vivax answers this stuff. He is getting away with absolute murder by dodging all of this. I won't be surprised if he comes in here with "welp, would you look at the time! I gotta get to work and / or sleep, bye!" only to pretend that the questions don't exist.

The question avoidance is probably the #1 reason I scumread him.

[SuperfluousNinja]

And frankly it insults my intelligence for him to think he can get away with it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

BTW you can draw a sharp contrast between how Vivax handles questions and how Luca handles questions. I don't think Luca has dodged a single question that was directed at him, for this entire game (correct me if I'm wrong). But it sure seems to me like he's willing to answer everything.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm not using violence or coercion dude. Where is this coming from?

Extorting attention is a form of violence I am familiar with.

I will not answer your question.

It's not about attention at all. If I had a way to drop my question into an anonymous question box to be answered by anyone, I would.

Accusing me of being attention-seeking is making this personal when this isn't personal at all. I know it sucks to lose a game that you've spent weeks on, but it still isn't personal in that case. I want fuck-all to do with attention and I resent the implication that that's what I'm after.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It's not about attention at all. If I had a way to drop my question into an anonymous question box to be

ASKED

by anyone, I would.

Fixed.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

How the hell should we know?

I think Grack is right.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

lol

Okay, sign this please:

We convince everyone in the game that it's either DP and me or you and Luca and each day we yeet one from each team.
Guess who wins?

Which of you and DP do we yeet first in this scenario?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Let's say I am dumb and don't understand, but I do understand that if this is to be carried out, we'd have to yeet one of you / DP.

Which one will that be?

[SuperfluousNinja]

And DP, if town loses, it won't be because I game threw, it will be because Vivax won't answer my fucking questions.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Like at this point, it's basically like how we all want to go get ice cream, but we can't, because Jimmy just won't put his shoes on. Why won't he put his shoes on? Who fucking knows! But he just won't, so we can't leave, can't get ice cream, womp womp.

[SuperfluousNinja]

And DP, if town loses, it won't be because I game threw, it will be because Vivax won't answer my fucking questions.

You just need to think about alternatives at this point.

No, Vivax just needs to answer my fucking questions. It really is that simple.

Want me to do whatever the fuck it is that you want me to do? Then get him to answer the questions.

Gonna be a LOOOOT easier for you if you help me with that instead of this strange pushback you're putting on me, which I am rejecting wholeheartedly. You have town's best interests at heart, yes? You think me getting past this is best, yes? Great! Well I am giving you the exact playbook on how to get me to do that. It sure as fuck isn't "your buddy Luca is doing X so you should too!" It is, quite simply, to assist me in getting answers to the questions I asked. I will be extremely, extremely confused if you don't do this very simple thing.

From me he has drummed up some bullshit about how I am committing violence against him by asking him to explain a few things. But you are his buddy and he sure can't use that excuse with you! So I would be extremely appreciative if you'd do this very simple thing and get us all on track.

[SuperfluousNinja]

4453, Darth. Get him to respond to 4453 so we can all move on.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Naerys - Vivax and Grack
Hu Tao - Vivax and Grack
Me - Vivax and Grack
Darth - Grack
Vivax - Grack
Luca - Naerys and Grack (noncommittal, but he says he picks those two if he has to guess)

So every single one of us suspects Grath.

Either we are all wrong, or someone is bussing him.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Grack, not Grath. Wtf brain.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also, we are not "all wrong", but I admit I am concerned when every single person is on a player's case. You can't rule out that all the townies are wrong and the scum are just like "lol sure man, all aboard"

[SuperfluousNinja]

HEAR MY CLAIM.

If that is really your claim, this gon be a real short day.

intent to hammer

[SuperfluousNinja]

Also grack, can you explain why you said earlier that you didn’t want to spend more than a couple hours an evening on this game, but now you seem raring to go? To yeet someone with plenty of time left in the day? To spend more than a couple hours an evening to push a yeet through?

I don't lol. I'm getting tired of having to show up every single night for 2-3 hours and want to see a flip.

These days are super long and I didn't anticipate that i'd be on here every day for 1-2 months.

This post makes me think he probably told his teammate to go ahead and bus him today.

If he flips scum, he was clearly bussed, so I don't want to hear any of this "oh but I am town because I killed a scum! I am so town that Karl-Anthony of the Minnesota Timberwolves is my real life brother!" bullshit.

[SuperfluousNinja]

It's not a bad play either. Even if we are right, scum still just needs 2 mislims for the win. Too bad we ruined your cred by unanimously agreeing he's evil, though lol. You were too good at your job.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Grack, you know I said intent to hammer, yes? And that it is dependent on you saying something more useful about your role than what you said?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Vivax, if you answer my question in post 4453, I'll cast the hammer vote!

Don't get in the way of progress, Vivax

[SuperfluousNinja]

Vivax, if you answer my question in post 4453, I'll cast the hammer vote!

Don't get in the way of progress, Vivax

Hammer please.

Ask him to answer the questions!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Come on Grack, do you want to get hammered or what? Put that pressure on Vivax with me!

[SuperfluousNinja]

They are in post 4453.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Grack, if you are town, why not put up more of a fight? You know that if we get this wrong, we have just one chance left. Why put all this pressure on us townies to get the next two right?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay.

Well if someone is going to hammer you, it's not going to be me.

I'm deeply concerned that DP / Vivax are playing us. No way in hell is it smart to give them what they want so fast, if they are the scum team.

When you are tired, Grack, learn to rest, not to quit.

Get some sleep and let's sort this all out over the course of the day. No need to rush into such an early hammer.

I'm going to sleep.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

Fire support for OoO . Same way we attempted to go after Luca D1.
But also cause the way you acted surprised about Dunn getting wagoned as if he was so obviously town made me go scumscum on you.

Do link a scum game of yours please. I'm curious if you're as hyperactive in such a case.

More specifically, why weren't you concerned that mafia would kill you for repeating what OOO said about me? Think about it: if you were town, you just made a crystal clear suspicion against a person. You bolded this text that said "most obvious scum in the game" or some such. And you didn't post any reads on anyone else, so there'd be no need to wonder why you were chosen for the kill.

On top of that, it sure seems to me like people were more suspicious of me yesterday than they were of you. So killing you is an awfully smart move.

Why wouldn't they do this?

[SuperfluousNinja]

To clarify my point a bit, the idea is that mafia can quite obviously kill you to frame me. You emphasize a point that says I'm incredibly scummy, me in particular. Mafia then kills me, then says "yall notice how the guy who brought up OOO's case on Ninja died, and how OOO had a case on Ninja also and he died too? Get ninja" I mean, weren't you concerned that they might do this?

I remind you that you said this after Hu Tao's warning. Did you just not heed their advice? Just not read it?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I just can‘t get much from the Dunnstral elim in terms of information.

Then on what authority can you say something like this to Luca:

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when

you could just look at the wagons

and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you telling him to "look at the wagons" when you admit there's nothing you can get from the Dunnstral elim? What is Luca supposedly capable of doing that you don't think you yourself can do?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ok grack is obv mafia lol

UNVOTE: grackaroni


I am too busy to keep up. Happy to sort out the fallout from whatever just happened later

So it's not obvious anymore?

[SuperfluousNinja]

HEAR MY CLAIM.

If that is really your claim, this gon be a real short day.

intent to hammer

Let's not rush this. Remember, you're probably going to be the night-kill and won't be able to influence the game further, so it's important we carefully consider everything now.

My son had an accident at school, so I'm not going to be on the the rest of the day. Hopefully review everything Tomorrow.

Oh no!! I'm sorry give your son a hug for me.

Also I'm not

entirely

sure I will be the night kill, especially if I bungle things today. I'm a good one to keep around if I keep on fucking up. I have nightmares about mafia games where I have gotten outplayed by crafty people, where I made it to the final day and I blew it. Those sorts of things haunt me for years and it's probably why I keep playing, just so I can erase the memory of that. Hopefully I can just secure the right kill today and THEN that will prove once and for all that I'm the best night kill.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@ Ninja

I was looking at the live wagons during D2, not the Dunn wagon. One had scum in them and the other is just a consensus scumread who flipped town.

Why are live wagons, on people whose alignment we don't know, more worthy of consideration than the wagon on the person whose alignment we DO know?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Either he checked Grack or he got jailkept I think.
Dunno, it's too ambiguous.

Are you not paying attention to the game?

1) He's an EVEN-NIGHT neapolitan
2) Even if he wasn't an even-night neapolitan, the jailkeeper was killed the very first night, and mafia usually works that if you get targeted for a kill, unless you're a bodyguard or something that interacts with a kill, your action just doesn't go through.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

Fire support for OoO . Same way we attempted to go after Luca D1.
But also cause the way you acted surprised about Dunn getting wagoned as if he was so obviously town made me go scumscum on you.

Do link a scum game of yours please. I'm curious if you're as hyperactive in such a case.

More specifically, why weren't you concerned that mafia would kill you for repeating what OOO said about me? Think about it: if you were town, you just made a crystal clear suspicion against a person. You bolded this text that said "most obvious scum in the game" or some such. And you didn't post any reads on anyone else, so there'd be no need to wonder why you were chosen for the kill.

On top of that, it sure seems to me like people were more suspicious of me yesterday than they were of you. So killing you is an awfully smart move.

Why wouldn't they do this?

@Vivax

[SuperfluousNinja]

Either he checked Grack or he got jailkept I think.
Dunno, it's too ambiguous.

Are you not paying attention to the game?

1) He's an EVEN-NIGHT neapolitan
2) Even if he wasn't an even-night neapolitan, the jailkeeper was killed the very first night, and mafia usually works that if you get targeted for a kill, unless you're a bodyguard or something that interacts with a kill, your action just doesn't go through.

I, too, would not really care about the details of the game if I already know everyone's alignment.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You know what else I might do if I wasn't paying attention to the game?

I might accidentally kill the guy whose flip will end up clearing a townie.

I have been wondering why this happened, why the mafia would flip a guy and validate his read, and the fact that you are missing pretty basic details of this game goes a real long way in explaining why.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Vivax

Why did you try to murder me yesterday?

Fire support for OoO . Same way we attempted to go after Luca D1.
But also cause the way you acted surprised about Dunn getting wagoned as if he was so obviously town made me go scumscum on you.

Do link a scum game of yours please. I'm curious if you're as hyperactive in such a case.

More specifically, why weren't you concerned that mafia would kill you for repeating what OOO said about me? Think about it: if you were town, you just made a crystal clear suspicion against a person. You bolded this text that said "most obvious scum in the game" or some such. And you didn't post any reads on anyone else, so there'd be no need to wonder why you were chosen for the kill.

On top of that, it sure seems to me like people were more suspicious of me yesterday than they were of you. So killing you is an awfully smart move.

Why wouldn't they do this?

To clarify my point a bit, the idea is that mafia can quite obviously kill you to frame me. You emphasize a point that says I'm incredibly scummy, me in particular. Mafia then kills me, then says "yall notice how the guy who brought up OOO's case on Ninja died, and how OOO had a case on Ninja also and he died too? Get ninja" I mean, weren't you concerned that they might do this?

I remind you that you said this after Hu Tao's warning. Did you just not heed their advice? Just not read it?

Still waiting for your answer on this one.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@ Ninja

I was looking at the live wagons during D2, not the Dunn wagon. One had scum in them and the other is just a consensus scumread who flipped town.

Why are live wagons, on people whose alignment we don't know, more worthy of consideration than the wagon on the person whose alignment we DO know?

Because live wagons decide the outcome of the day, exhuming Dunnstral's mummy doesn't.

That's obviously not true, since "exhuming Dunnstral's mummy" gives you evidence to work with, with which you can decide who to place your live wagon vote on!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Like honestly, it really bothers me how you insist on answering the wrong question, how you are willfully ignoring what I am asking you, and if this game goes south and you are town, this is 100% what I am going to point to. I will take 0 responsibility for a misyeet on you, given how poorly you have interacted with me here. You answered the question "why is a live wagon important in a general sense", not "why is a live wagon a

better source of information on who is guilty

than the wagon on Dunnstral", which is clearly what I was after with my question, and yet you didn't reply that way.

You repeatedly blow me off, don't answer things I ask you, which you are doing yet again this morning since I'm having to repeat posts 4568-4569 to you again, which you ignored. You keep ignoring me, over, and over, and over, and over, and OV. ER. If you are town, this is just 100% on you at this point. I don't know what else to say. If you really are a townie, you should have known that ignoring someone else, blowing them off, willfully answering a twisted version of their question instead of the actual question they asked is all scummy behavior, and you can never blame anyone for voting for someone who does all that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay, sign this please:

We convince everyone in the game that it's either DP and me or you and Luca and each day we yeet one from each team.
Guess who wins?

We need to figure out what the hell this is about. Vivax is asking for a 2v2, with only 2 misyeets left, so this could just end the game. A contest of Vivax / DP vs. Grack / Luca.

My thought was, if my initial suspicion of scum being Vivax / Grack was correct, he finds a way to make sure that the one who dies on his side is DP, and the one who dies on the other side is Luca, and voila, he has won the game. But I don't know how he manages to pull it off without drawing attention. How does he shove DP in front of the train as the one who asked for this in the first place, you know?

I admit that if Vivax is partnered with Darth, this is a stupid thing to ask for, and he'd be screwed. So if he really were partnered with Darth, is he just playing a game of chicken?

So like, I feel like I'm missing something here. Anyone have thoughts?

[SuperfluousNinja]

*natural ambience sounds*

How are you coming on post 4583?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Okay, sign this please:

We convince everyone in the game that it's either DP and me or you and Luca and each day we yeet one from each team.
Guess who wins?

We need to figure out what the hell this is about. Vivax is asking for a 2v2, with only 2 misyeets left, so this could just end the game. A contest of Vivax / DP vs. Grack / Luca.

My thought was, if my initial suspicion of scum being Vivax / Grack was correct, he finds a way to make sure that the one who dies on his side is DP, and the one who dies on the other side is Luca, and voila, he has won the game. But I don't know how he manages to pull it off without drawing attention. How does he shove DP in front of the train as the one who asked for this in the first place, you know?

I admit that if Vivax is partnered with Darth, this is a stupid thing to ask for, and he'd be screwed. So if he really were partnered with Darth, is he just playing a game of chicken?

So like, I feel like I'm missing something here. Anyone have thoughts?

Here's how I would like to resolve this.

I agree to the 2v2, on one condition: the first person we kill is Vivax.

If he flips town, then I agree, completely, wholeheartedly, that we yeet either Grack or Luca.

This was your idea, so you seem to think that you are on the right track here, yes? If you are, in fact, agreeing to a 2v2, you are effectively saying you are willing to die for this. My understanding of a 1v1 or anything similar is that you are saying, I don't even care if I die as a result of pushing this, I just want the other person gone,

even if that means I die too.

So in principle you should have no problem being the one who dies first.

You okay with that, Vivax?

[SuperfluousNinja]

BTW you can draw a sharp contrast between how Vivax handles questions and how Luca handles questions. I don't think Luca has dodged a single question that was directed at him, for this entire game (correct me if I'm wrong). But it sure seems to me like he's willing to answer everything.

I don’t really agree with this. Regardless of alignment I think Luca has definitely had moments of talking his way around questions.

My man, I will take "moments of talking around questions" over "flat-out refusing to answer questions and taunting you with my unwillingness to answer them" every goddamn day of the week.

[SuperfluousNinja]

A vivax yeet is the most informative, the most useful, the most likely to result in a scum kill.

This whole push on Grack, if he had flipped town, it would make me suspicious of a Vivax / DP team. But if he had flipped scum, I'd still believe that all the townies figured it out and Vivax just jumped on the wagon. Either way, a yeet of Grack still results in a conclusion that Vivax is guilty, so why not just yeet Vivax and NOT risk killing a townie?

It would certainly refocus Darth's efforts on the right places. There's nothing that will get him off his hard defend of Vivax other than seeing for himself that he was buddying up with scum.

I currently have zero interest in voting Naerys. The only thing that could make me suspect her at this point is to see Vivax flip town, which I think is highly unlikely. Likewise I have zero interest in voting either Hu Tao or Luca. I believe Naerys / Hu Tao / Luca are all town and I progress from there.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If me not claiming makes you want to hammer, then please hammer.

My guess is DP/Vivax, but I'm not really motivated to look too deeply. Hu-Tao comes off tonally as townie to me.

If you really are town, the best move you could possibly make here is to help us yeet Vivax. Vivax's attention on you is currently worth 2 votes, not just one, because of how hard DP is sheeping on him, and if you really are on our side, we don't want you dead and would rather you help us. I can't think of a better way for town-you to help town than to vote Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

More like SuperfluousWINja

[SuperfluousNinja]

You can't even rhyme, man, shameful!

[SuperfluousNinja]

Not sure what to make of Grack‘s refuge into audacity.

There‘s very little in Naerys ISO to really pin her down. Gob doesn‘t help much either.

I‘m inclined to go for a Naerys vote here but I‘d like to see Luca caught up.

HT any updates ? Opinions ? Donations ?

Meh I was just frustrated last night. I haven't approached the game in a good way.

Tonight I'm just going to ignore reading the latest posts and take the time to re-read through older portions of the game instead and work out a detailed reads post.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm surprised to find myself a lot more sympathetic towards Grack than Luca in this exchange.

What's the reason for the exasperation, Luca? How pissed are you that I didn't yeet Grack last night?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I've had conflicting thoughts on Vivax throughout the game, what of it? Dann had similar thoughts to my own on the matter.

I think both you and Vivax are scummy, for what it's worth, and it's still a real possibility that you could be partners from where I'm standing, but I'm not ruling out you/Naerys.

Then hammer Vivax. It's that simple.

If you think the only alternative is Grack / Naerys, then Vivax's flip would tell you that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I don't know, why don't you just tell me, why are you pissed? Like what is driving your attitude over the last couple pages?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'll tell you this: I no longer think Grack is scum.

My two big reasons for this:

1) He was asking, if not

begging

, me to hammer him. Why in the world does scum do that? "Fuck my team that I've been building a relationship with over the past 3 real-time weeks, I just give up and fold under pressure"? He puts up no fight at all as scum? For real?

2) Every single player in this game was a consensus "yes" on yeeting him. I didn't see anyone put up any fight, any resistance whatsoever, to yeeting him. That should tell you, at the very least, that scum is getting what they want out of doing this. That could very well be a bus, trying to build town cred. But you have to admit that the more likely explanation is that we all made a mistake.

I mean I can see why we felt this way. He hasn't been super active, and by his own admission, he realized that this game is a bit more involved than he anticipated. You are grilling him, Luca, on how behind he is, but he did outright tell everyone that this game is pretty demanding for him and he's struggled to keep up. It is easy to scum-read literally anyone who isn't keeping up with the game as town, and it's even easier to do it as scum.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I've had conflicting thoughts on Vivax throughout the game, what of it? Dann had similar thoughts to my own on the matter.

I think both you and Vivax are scummy, for what it's worth, and it's still a real possibility that you could be partners from where I'm standing, but I'm not ruling out you/Naerys.

Then hammer Vivax. It's that simple.

If you think the only alternative is Grack / Naerys, then Vivax's flip would tell you that.

But then I'm in a position where I'm more likely to be mislimmed tomorrow, especially when you're dead. I would rather get it right today, and Grack is my biggest scumread at the moment. I still might be open to doing Vivax, but I haven't got around to iso'ing him yet.

1) Why are you convinced you'd be yeeted, if you think you're correct about Vivax? You have been pretty clear all day about Vivax being scum, so if you voted him out and yeeted him, would that not make you in particular a lot less likely to be yeeted?

2) Who cares, really, about a misyeet after 2 scum are dead, when we can still use a misyeet and be fine?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm not pissed in the slightest, I'm just playing the game against someone who is trying to wriggle his way out of being limmed by flinging whatever mud he can find in my general direction. I have no qualms beyond that.

I figured that's what you were doing. Just needed to hear it from you.

That said, frankly I don't think your case is that good. It's a lot of "why did you change your mind on X?" It's not like town cannot change their mind on things.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'll tell you this: I no longer think Grack is scum.

My two big reasons for this:

1) He was asking, if not

begging

, me to hammer him. Why in the world does scum do that? "Fuck my team that I've been building a relationship with over the past 3 real-time weeks, I just give up and fold under pressure"? He puts up no fight at all as scum? For real?

2) Every single player in this game was a consensus "yes" on yeeting him. I didn't see anyone put up any fight, any resistance whatsoever, to yeeting him. That should tell you, at the very least, that scum is getting what they want out of doing this. That could very well be a bus, trying to build town cred. But you have to admit that the more likely explanation is that we all made a mistake.

I mean I can see why we felt this way. He hasn't been super active, and by his own admission, he realized that this game is a bit more involved than he anticipated. You are grilling him, Luca, on how behind he is, but he did outright tell everyone that this game is pretty demanding for him and he's struggled to keep up. It is easy to scum-read literally anyone who isn't keeping up with the game as town, and it's even easier to do it as scum.

Actually, now that I think about this, maybe it isn't

more

likely that every townie screwed up that read than it is that we were all correct but that scum really wanted that bus to collide. Either way, for sure it bothers me that yeeting him was clearly what scum wanted. I don't, at this moment, understand exactly why they wanted that, but the fact that 100% of us wanted him dead means that that includes scum, and we'd be giving scum what they want by killing Grack. Thus I just have no interest in doing it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You could ask what scum begs to be hammered, but what town does?

The exhausted townie does. He hasn't the slightest clue who is on his team, who is actually on his side and who isn't, and thus has no camaraderie with anyone.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'll tell you this: I no longer think Grack is scum.

My two big reasons for this:

1) He was asking, if not

begging

, me to hammer him. Why in the world does scum do that? "Fuck my team that I've been building a relationship with over the past 3 real-time weeks, I just give up and fold under pressure"? He puts up no fight at all as scum? For real?

2) Every single player in this game was a consensus "yes" on yeeting him. I didn't see anyone put up any fight, any resistance whatsoever, to yeeting him. That should tell you, at the very least, that scum is getting what they want out of doing this. That could very well be a bus, trying to build town cred. But you have to admit that the more likely explanation is that we all made a mistake.

I mean I can see why we felt this way. He hasn't been super active, and by his own admission, he realized that this game is a bit more involved than he anticipated. You are grilling him, Luca, on how behind he is, but he did outright tell everyone that this game is pretty demanding for him and he's struggled to keep up. It is easy to scum-read literally anyone who isn't keeping up with the game as town, and it's even easier to do it as scum.

Actually, now that I think about this, maybe it isn't

more

likely that every townie screwed up that read than it is that we were all correct but that scum really wanted that bus to collide. Either way, for sure it bothers me that yeeting him was clearly what scum wanted. I don't, at this moment, understand exactly why they wanted that, but the fact that 100% of us wanted him dead means that that includes scum, and we'd be giving scum what they want by killing Grack. Thus I just have no interest in doing it.

Actions speak louder than words. Until I voted Grack, Vivax was the main wagon. Could the same not apply to Vivax, that everyone is ok with eliminating him? Apart from Darth, who I very much doubt is scum at this point.

There you go, you answered it yourself. Maybe you shouldn't doubt that he is scum? At the very least, it redirects his townie energy towards actually useful endeavors.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I've had conflicting thoughts on Vivax throughout the game, what of it? Dann had similar thoughts to my own on the matter.

I think both you and Vivax are scummy, for what it's worth, and it's still a real possibility that you could be partners from where I'm standing, but I'm not ruling out you/Naerys.

Then hammer Vivax. It's that simple.

If you think the only alternative is Grack / Naerys, then Vivax's flip would tell you that.

But then I'm in a position where I'm more likely to be mislimmed tomorrow, especially when you're dead. I would rather get it right today, and Grack is my biggest scumread at the moment. I still might be open to doing Vivax, but I haven't got around to iso'ing him yet.

1) Why are you convinced you'd be yeeted, if you think you're correct about Vivax? You have been pretty clear all day about Vivax being scum, so if you voted him out and yeeted him, would that not make you in particular a lot less likely to be yeeted?

2) Who cares, really, about a misyeet after 2 scum are dead, when we can still use a misyeet and be fine?

I'm no longer convinced about Vivax. Darth townreads him and he was right on oats while I was wrong. In truth, I find Vivax perplexing.

If not Vivax, then who? Grack and who? Naerys, I guess?

If we flip Vivax and he's town, voila, you are set. It's Grack and Naerys, gg everyone, let the celebration begin.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Well, how could they, when you just caught them?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Or:

Vivax is scum, nobody wants to yeet you because you helped kill scum, we use our remaining two yeets on Grack / Naerys and we win.

That is, IMO, the most likely outcome. You said earlier that you "independently scum read Vivax" and I think you even said that he's your strongest town read. I can hardly understand why his only contribution today, where all he does is manufacture more whine than Napa Valley, somehow leads you to question that conclusion. He's done literally nothing to deserve more of a town read today.

I am off to work so you'll have to sort this out on your own, but for real, I would try to remember all of these reasons why you scum-read (past tense) Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

But he did tell you he didn't want to get hung up on discussing you in real-time, and it certainly isn't scummy to go through a player's iso and ask him to answer for things he finds while he knows the player is there to respond to it.

I also don't know why you are bothering to convince me of anything in regards to Grack. Frankly that's your problem, not mine lol. I'm dying tonight and the only yeet I am interested in today is Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I love it when the Oats yeeter in charge says I don‘t make sense.

You need to figure out Grack and Naerys if you are town Luca and considering I was the only vote on her so far, safe to assume that town is simply unwilling to do that.

If you don‘t yeet me then scum leaves ninja alive anyway and she can prove how Winja she really is when I flip town, so go ahead.

Would you fucking stop talking as if I am the only town here? I am not the only one on you. It is not about me.

We clearly aren't going to be friends after this is over, but if you really are town, you need to stop fucking whining about me and realize that there's more than one townie on you here. Darth is the only one here who is convinced that you aren't scum, and there sure as shit aren't four scum in this game, so stop acting like this is all on me.

If you want to guide town to a win, the first step is to stop your fucking pity party and do some work instead.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Five scum. Hu Tao, Naerys, Grack, Luca, and myself. We have all found reasons to suspect you. So unless Gypyx set up a 6 scum game, you really fucking need to stop acting like a misyeet on you is all my fault specifically.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Just to be crystal clear, if you do flip town, the person who game-threw is you, Vivax. In response to heat directed your way, all you did was complain about it, grumble about one person in particular, say "bah the game is unwinnable!" and not even try. If that isn't abandoning your win condition, then I don't know what is. Fixating on just one person of the five who suspect you is not how a townie clears themselves. Offhandedly suggesting that a person who suspects you "has issues" sure doesn't help either. You are absolutely, positively, 100% the one who is throwing the game if you really are town.

I prefer the simpler explanation that you just are not town.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yall are barking up the wrong tree with Luca. There's not a single scum team that includes Luca that makes any sense.

Yesterday he clearly had suspicions on both Grack and Vivax. Regardless of where he is now, that's where he was.

When Grack was at E-1, I said "intent to hammer", and he advised me not to. If he were teamed with Vivax, or literally anyone other than Grack, why would he do that? Grack was asking for it, pleading, practically, and Luca could have just let me kill a townie, but he told me not to.

Then the only logical explanation left is that he is teamed with Grack. Now you have to consider that Vivax was at E-1 this morning, and Luca could have easily pushed that wagon to completion, but instead he said, nah, let's not.

So that now leaves us with 0 logical teammates with him as scum.

The only thing that explains it adequately is that he's a sincere townie.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Yall are barking up the wrong tree with Luca. There's not a single scum team that includes Luca that makes any sense.

Yesterday he clearly had suspicions on both Grack and Vivax. Regardless of where he is now, that's where he was.

When Grack was at E-1, I said "intent to hammer", and he advised me not to. If he were teamed with Vivax, or literally anyone other than Grack, why would he do that? Grack was asking for it, pleading, practically, and Luca could have just let me kill a townie, but he told me not to.

Then the only logical explanation left is that he is teamed with Grack. Now you have to consider that Vivax was at E-1 this morning, and Luca could have easily pushed that wagon to completion, but instead he said, nah, let's not.

So that now leaves us with 0 logical teammates with him as scum.

The only thing that explains it adequately is that he's a sincere townie.

You made a post that you weren't going to hammer and that town needs to take its time.

As it stands he's on track for an easy win and just needs to avoid doing anything drastic.

He's not going to draw attention to himself by rushing to hammer a townie.

He was around, though. He could have done it himself.

Remember, every single one of us suspected you last night. So it would not have been at all controversial for any individual to vote for you and yeet you. He didn't even need me to cast the hammer vote; he could have finished you off himself. And he chose not to.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I feel like this should be given serious thought.

Naerys / DarthPunk / Vivax all had their votes on you already, pushing you to E-1. Anyone paying attention to the current state of reads at the time would know that all of us were scumreading you. And after E-1, you gave up. "I'll just hammer myself", you said.

I mean, for the life of me, I cannot fathom better conditions for which a scum can swoop in and finish you off. This is like tee ball difficulty at this point. Luca, Hu Tao, and I had the ball just sitting right there, asking to be hit.

And none of us did so.

If you ask me, that's a strong sign that there's 0 scum between Luca, Hu Tao, and myself, and that all scum are somewhere in the midst of Naerys / DarthPunk / Vivax.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I guess if you are scum, you have to scrap that whole thing. But if you really are town like you say, you really ought to wrap your head around that.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh yeah, AND you were asked for your role, and you didn't give it! And Darth even said "lol he's obviously mafia"! Like come on, if you are town, how can you possibly think that Luca, or Hu Tao, or myself just passed on the most golden opportunity of all time

[SuperfluousNinja]

After you write this post, there's no world in which mafia Luca writes

"I disagree. Don't give Grack time to sleep. We need to hammer NOW"

It'd be an absolutely terrible look.

After the post, sure. But there was plenty of time before it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ugh, or maybe not. Only 30 minutes in between.

Now I'm pissed at myself for missing a play that would have very, very easily cleared both Luca and Hu Tao for good.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If I write off everybody that could have hammered me then the only possible scum team left for me is Nearys/Vivax.

Then why not vote Vivax?

[SuperfluousNinja]

And he dodges questions and refuses to answer them on a regular basis. Don't forget that!

[SuperfluousNinja]

No, you did respond to the question. You clearly acknowledged it and said you didn't want to say. That's not the same thing.

And Oats did actually answer questions, he just did it in the most frustrating and circuitous way possible. Like I said before, he treated his answers like a hot potato, just eager to get them away from himself as quickly as possible.

That is NOT the same as straight-up ignoring them.

Why is he trying so hard to antagonize me if he's town? Why call me "superfluousthrower", why suggest that I "have issues"? I'm confirmed town, and he feels like the best thing he could do is intentionally piss me off?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I have Nearys and Ninja as lock town. I think HT/Luca, HT/Grack, HT/Vivax all make sense in some way.

Why is Naerys a "lock town" for you?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

If this is all it is, I don't think that's a convincing case. Do any of us think she could fake not knowing about the night kill? Well how should any of us know? I don't know Naerys, I don't know her capabilities. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to me to type some keystrokes that give an impression of cluelessness.

If you want me to continue townreading you, I'd advise you to stop with the intimidation tactics.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

Why do you keep asking things like this? How the hell should we know what anyone in this game is capable of?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I realized DP was town and Ninja has been checked.

When and how did you realize this? Especially after you voted for DP? I don't see an explanation for this.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

Why do you keep asking things like this? How the hell should we know what anyone in this game is capable of?

Grack usually hosts the games we play, and he should know my meta. It wasn't a statement directed at you or anyone else, it was a question to attempt to understand gracks thinking.

If he knows your meta, and you know he knows your meta, what's stopping you from playing counter to your meta in order to fool people?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Do you think Nearys could fake not knowing who the NK was when if she was scum she would 100 percent know?

That is really hard for me to get past.

If this is all it is, I don't think that's a convincing case. Do any of us think she could fake not knowing about the night kill? Well how should any of us know? I don't know Naerys, I don't know her capabilities. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to me to type some keystrokes that give an impression of cluelessness.

If you want me to continue townreading you, I'd advise you to stop with the intimidation tactics.

You are literally trying to intimidate me now with this statement.

Honestly your approach to basically everything since you were cleared has been overly aggressive, off-putting and generally wrong. Right now I am pretty sure you are hard defending scum grack and trying to misyeet vivax.

So I don't really care if you town read me or not, I think you are cleared as town but wholly on the wrong track and so I would appreciate it if you just let me solve the game, because that is all I care about right now.

What you are doing is far shittier, though. Your version of this is to get me to shut up. My version is to get you to talk. I'm telling you I think what you're doing is scummy behavior, and I don't tell you that to get you to stop talking, I tell you that to gauge your response. And I fully expect a response too.

But if you portray me as someone with "strong opinions" and shame me for "not reading the thread properly", I don't see how that does anything other than trying to make me feel small, insignificant, worthless.

It's just a shitty thing to say to someone. We all have lives and responsibilities, there's a lot of stuff in this thread, and I'm working on something right now where an answer to that question helps me along. I don't have time to comb through everything here when I could get what I need just by asking. You should want me involved and engaged. Hell, maybe your thoughts have changed, seeing as how you said it a while ago, and I wanted your current thoughts. It's really not so outrageous to ask.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I realized DP was town and Ninja has been checked.

When and how did you realize this? Especially after you voted for DP? I don't see an explanation for this.

He explained this earlier.

He can answer the question himself.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You're right that I've been unfair to people and I apologize. It won't happen again.

[SuperfluousNinja]

VOTE: Grackaroni

[SuperfluousNinja]

[SuperfluousNinja]

Actually I meant

[SuperfluousNinja]

Im still figuring that out, but as you have gone to some length to throw shit around this game, its hard to

entangle.

Was this a scum slip? lol

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh it's 100% on me, don't worry lol.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh it's 100% on me, don't worry lol.

I hope you play more in the future. It was fun playing with you

I'm done, but thank you.

[SuperfluousNinja]

In retrospect, I think Darth's scummiest tell was when I made what I feel like was a pretty rock-solid case to at least SUSPECT Darth of guilt and walked him through my case to the point where he finally arrived at a "yes, that's a good point" sort of statement, and conversationally, it felt like he had capitulated. I fully expected him to abandon his stance on Vivax at that point, but after that conversation ended and things picked up in a different direction, it was as if the conversation never happened, and he was right back to "nah, Vivax just isn't scum". Something felt very off in his defense of Vivax in general, but him basically losing the defense but still carrying on with it anyway should have been a sign to me that he was full of shit, armed with some knowledge that the rest of us lacked. And at that point in the game, there was no reason to think Darth had some power role that cleared Vivax, since we had already most likely lost all of our power roles by then.

Also, part of the reason I suspected Oats so heavily was because of his angle that the only reason Luca could be frustrated for being suspected was that he was scum. I didn't want to out Luca and point out another obvious reason why a person might get frustrated for being suspected: they could be power town and disproportionately useful to the town. The fact that Oats wasn't considering this at all had me pretty convinced that he was guilty. But for sure the rest of the rationale was how incredibly unhelpful he was being and his extreme reluctance to be a team player, being largely combative and just adding to the chaos, which I figured he'd just play off as "oh that's just my personality" if anyone really pushed him on that, but I still feel like town REALLY ought to know better. If all you ever do is just play heavy offense against everyone, you should never be surprised to be scumread for that. It was incredibly unhelpful to town for a townie to play like that and get himself yeeted; I still felt like it was an unfortunate but necessary yeet after I saw the flip.

[SuperfluousNinja]

In retrospect, I think Darth's scummiest tell was when I made what I feel like was a pretty rock-solid case to at least SUSPECT

VIVAX

of guilt

Fixed. I named the wrong fella

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh yeah, also, why did you all give Darth such an easy time for making this thorough case against Grack which ended up to be complete nonsense?

I did not vote for Grack because I thought he was actually guilty; I did it 100% to call Darth's bluff. I just wasn't buying it but I also completely ran out of steam to fight Darth at that point, for personal reasons. So I figured the best thing I could do in that instance was to really put the microscope on that case he had written, which to me seemed very confirmation-bias-y. It was a win-win for me: I acknowledged that I wasn't seeing things clearly, but I figured, I'm either totally wrong on Grack and town gets a scum kill, or I call Darth's bluff and he'll have a REAL hard time the next day. But honestly it was like the misyeet never happened, like that whole post he wrote with a very narrow angle that was made with a great deal of confidence, that ended up being made against a townie, never actually happened. Frustrating.

[SuperfluousNinja]

My blunt opinion is that the scum win was a lot more poor play by town than good play by scum. Sorry not sorry.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Hu Tao

When you said you were purposefully playing scummy on day 1, was that you shoving in an excuse for what you felt like could have probably been perceived as scummy play? Like did you see people scumreading you, think "damn, they're probably right", and then write that to throw us off your scent?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Well I mean, obviously they WERE right lol, I mean like, did you look at what you were doing and feel like your play was actually pretty scummy, and you crafted up that gambit in the heat of the moment to throw us off?

Like how much thought was put into either of your gambits? I'm curious also about the "I have a guilty" one.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Hu Tao

When you said you were purposefully playing scummy on day 1, was that you shoving in an excuse for what you felt like could have probably been perceived as scummy play? Like did you see people scumreading you, think "damn, they're probably right", and then write that to throw us off your scent?

I was purposely playing day 1 in a way I knew would pocket people that are familiar with me on the site. And day 2 I did something I thought TL people would like in the fake guilty (not sure if they did or not but I guess it worked)

Yeah see, this, THIS RIGHT HERE, is why I absolutely insist that meta reading is bullshit. You say right here you know exactly what your meta is as a town, and so you purposefully play towards your town meta in order to be read that way. This is why I am such a strong disbeliever in meta.

[SuperfluousNinja]

@OutOfOrder

Why were you so extremely convinced I was scum?

And @Mafia, did you kill him because of anything related to his insistence on 1v1ing me? To frame me or something? I have to say, thank you for getting him off my case, as I likely would have lost my fucking mind if I had needed to endure that lol.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Even though he was dead set on yeeting a townie, to the extent that he said we could yeet him if it failed?