Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[Looker]

/confirm

here and reading

[Looker]

vote Nook

That's

my

nickname.

[Looker]

Cookie, you have to bold your vote.

Like this

unvote
vote Cookie

unvote
vote nook

[Looker]

Vote: Looker

You!

Yeah, I know, I get that alot.

Shrinehme, I know in this instance you wouldn't, but as a general rule do you follow Lynch All Name Butchers?

No way! It'd be totally unfair if someone were stuck in a game full of players with incomprehensible names. The people with hard-to-spell names would always win as scum.

And it's not as though the internet has the convenience of, oh, say, a copy and paste option for text, after all...

What are you talking about, Shrinescumgodfatherhme?

[Looker]

What are you talking about, Shrinescumgodfatherhme?

Only the scum would know their godfather. You're scum?
Vote stays.

you're retarded. Only scum would know

if

there was a godfather.

Unvote:
Vote: No Lynch

Giving up already?

Far_Cry's Post 86 - Wait, Nook's gay? Cuz I've got lasers shootin' outta my ass, too but I still likes boobies...

And I concur with your vote on BigBear, I'd prefer it if we at least

tried

to find scum today. Who had the most votes when BigBear decided to go no lynch?

[Looker]

Okay, just throwing it out there, shoot it down if you want.

You get the most votes, the closest to a lynch, and then BigBear votes no lynch.
Far_Cry votes BigBear for wanting a no lynch.
You vote Far_Cry.

Shoot it down.

[Looker]

Unvote:
Vote: Shrinehme

Nice. I want to vote you, but moreso probably because I don't trust your intelligence than I believe you to be scum. Which brings up a good question: Should town always necessarily bring up their thought processes in-thread to everyone? Should we all know just how smart you are if you're town?

Okay, just throwing it out there, shoot it down if you want.

You get the most votes, the closest to a lynch, and then BigBear votes no lynch.
Far_Cry votes BigBear for wanting a no lynch.
You vote Far_Cry.

Shoot it down.

To be honest . . . . that's not that bad of a theory.

One thing holding me back: I've seen BigBear play as scum. He's competent, and voting No Lynch is horrible scum play.

BigBear might me doing this on purpose. It's a possible idea that he is scum that does some things that are SO terrible that people think he's not scum. A possible reverse psychology strategy.

Reverse psychology? Are you implying WIFOM? If so...

@BigBear: Were these your intentions? WIFOM? Can you refute these allegations?

To be honest . . . . that's not that bad of a theory.

One thing holding me back: I've seen BigBear play as scum. He's competent, and voting No Lynch is horrible scum play.

It didn't occur to you that he intentionally voted himself and No Lynch in order to coax Scum into thinking he was an easy target gun for [And Far_Cry took the bait, notably]? T'was the first thing to pop into my head... but maybe I have a slight advantage from being more familiar with his play, and I shouldn't assume everyone should recognize the same?

I don't have much to say about Looker's points, other than that BigBear voting No Lynch doubtfully had anything to do with my three random votes [yes they were "the most", but still....

three

, no where near the majority vote needed]. Aside from that, the progression of events were just... convenient/coincidental/ect.

If Far_Cry took the bait, why is BigBear voting for you? And yes, I agree, the three votes were irrelevant and it was, indeed, a coincidence. My mistake.

[Looker]

So you don't feel as if this is a bus for future reference? (Distancing?)

[Looker]

I have no reason to discount either.

[Looker]

So you don't feel as if this is a bus for future reference? (Distancing?)

So... you think Far_Cry is bussing BigBear? I don't really see it... what makes you think that?

@EtherealCookie

: What do you think of BigBear's recent posts?

What I was throwing out in Post 110 was in regard to you, Shrinehme.

[Looker]

Far_Cry's Post 120 - I must say I agree, it

would

take a psychic to know that you and BigBear were scum by page 5, but the way you worded it is funny. And the whole "bussing" idea was just something I threw out there in a pitiful attempt to help or contribute. But since you said it like that, I have to ask the question for future reference:

Are

you and BigBear scum together...?

BigBear's Post 127 - Clap!Clap!Clap! My applause for your successful attempt to generate discussion and exit the RVS (if this is what you were truly intending). And I don't know how old you are, I'm hoping you didn't take my post as an insult. It's just that you have to be wary around clearly intelligent people. (It was a compliment). And if you're a toddler, then you're one hella-smart kid.

And about the WIFOM, I really don't understand the concept of it, to be honest. I just know to throw that phrase out there whenever I get confused.

How vague.

Not very vague if you read the rest of my post .

The rest of your post contains comments referring to other players, and the one comment that I already showed you was misinterpreted.

You never explained from where your "bad vibes" come from, is what I mean. You gave nothing else for me to refute or explain, so I think it's vague.

Could it be that he's playing from gut...? And we all know what

that

means...

I didn't like the godfather comment. He said he wasn't serious I don't care. I'm keeping it there.

Alsooooooooo:

Is it really useful not to put someone at L-2 right out of the random voting stage? What do you hope to accomplish by not putting him at L-2?

[sarcasm]You're right. I should have commented on the post I didn't see until now. Also, I very clearly said bandwagoning was bad.[/sarcasm]

Is it really useful to use sarcasm right out of the random voting stage? What do you hope to accomplish by using sarcasm?

Are you...serious...? lol...

[Looker]

Are BigBear and Far_Cry still in this game?

[Looker]

The answer to that question depends on further posts from BigBear, Far_Cry, Shrine, & Cookie; however, BigBear & Far_Cry have disappeared. I

will

answer your question, but I'd like for them to get back first. Will that be alright?

[Looker]

Slow day.

Mod, can we get a prod on Idiotking? He hasn't posted since October 1.

Oh and...

Did you (EC) just claim???

I'm not seing it, unless you mean that he claimed he was a townie.

*twiddles thumbs and waits for FC or EC to show up*

Hi.
You were expecting me?

Um, Mr. Cookie, we need to kill somebody. Who should it be

What are your thoughts on EtherealCookie?

My thoughts are that one of you smart people should figure out who needs a'killun.

Mod

: Srry, I've gotten busy lately. I need to be replaced.

Srry guys, I'm just busy with school. Hopefully I will be able to play more when I have a break. Good luck guys

Are we going to wait for his replacement before relieving someone of their life or shall we press on?

EBWOP: Also, kinda depressed that Far Cry is leaving.... that's gonna put a damper on the game...

Nothing heals hurt like hurtin' someone else. Let's lynch!

[Looker]

I

like

the way Cookie's playing. It's new and exciting and it puts the up-tights on edge, but that's just me...

[Looker]

Peabody, unlike Far_Cry, I'm not going to dodge your question; however, I will answer it after a post from shrinehme.

O, and YAYAY! ZAZIE'S HERE!!

[Looker]

Grrrr. FC is replaced???

Fixed, btw. The replacement has already arrived.

Yay! Can't wait to see what you think about all this!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not Jester. I'm just a guy who got swarmed with too much shit, said a few stupid things, and is in a deep pile of shit right now and is too busy to get out of it currently. Give me till the weekend, guys.

unvote

I'm in no hurry to kill you, and I'd hate it if you were lynched due to playstyle. Besides, how do you tell the asylum employees that you're not crazy? How can you convince them?

Bringing up the idea of a jester, is actually scummy

Why?
I mean, there's decent grounds for it. EtherealCookie's play has been extremely outlandish. It initiates sure WIFOM, sure, but I don't see how it would tell scum. If someone hadn't brought it up by now, I would have.

We should note it if EtherealCookie flips Scum though. I could see a one protecting a partner with "What If Jester?"

I don't like that "extremely outlandish" part. If it were that bad, surely you could have used an example instead of "extremely outlandish". That just sounds like "he's different". [/not an argument, just pointing it out]

Bringing up the idea of a jester, is actually scummy

Why?
I mean, there's decent grounds for it. EtherealCookie's play has been extremely outlandish. It initiates sure WIFOM, sure, but I don't see how it would tell scum. If someone hadn't brought it up by now, I would have.

We should note it if EtherealCookie flips Scum though.

I could see a one protecting a partner with "What If Jester?"

Well, that, or promoting a mislynch. I've only seen a mention of a jester in one game. And the one that suggested Mastin was a jester, was Mafia Godmother. If Nook flips scum, I would consider it a scumslip then.

Yeah, I'd kinda be more willing to interrogate the accuser before we take this jester thing and run with it. Who said it? Nook? (I know, I know, I'll go back and read...)

[Looker]

Cookie! Cookie! Cookie! Cookie! Like Angelica from Rugrats, I want cookie cookie cookie cookie cookie!

[Looker]

Aw, there's no need for unnecessary pressure. He will produce what he will produce, and I'm almost positive it'll be satisfying enough...for whatever intention

[Looker]

Cookie's new avatar is cool.

2thumbs up!

[Looker]

Hey, Looker, has everyone talked who you wanted to talk before you answered my question about what you thought about me calling your theory all dumb and stuff?

Okay, just throwing it out there, shoot it down if you want.

You get the most votes, the closest to a lynch, and then BigBear votes no lynch.
Far_Cry votes BigBear for wanting a no lynch.
You vote Far_Cry.

Shoot it down.

To be honest . . . . that's not that bad of a theory.

One thing holding me back: I've seen BigBear play as scum. He's competent, and voting No Lynch is horrible scum play.

No offense to Looker, but this is a terrible theory.

Firstly, it supposes that BigBear is stupid enough both to believe that the RVS wagon on Shrinehme is enough of a threat to his scumbuddy to take drastic action.

Secondly, it supposes that BigBear is stupid enough to believe voting no lynch would work. Sure, it could serve to distract from his scumbuddy, but I don't really see how distracting from your scumbuddy by heaping a bunch of suspicion on yourself is a good idea.

Thirdly, it supposes that scum are going to vote to help out their scumbuddies even in the random voting stage, when the threat of lynching is very low.

unvote: nook

vote: ConfidAnon

You were right. I hadn't taken into consideration that he was nowhere close to a lynch and pretty much everything else you said. I mean, I hadn't really thought that through...

But I have a question for you, since you bring this up. Do you think that Confid could be scum on Cookie's wagon?

[Looker]

Zaz, you rock.

[Looker]

As I mentioned, I'll get to it in the weekend.

Stomach's grumblin , I want some Cookie!

Sanjay's Post 266 - I thought I might have found something but when they responded, it was evident that I hadn't. Coupled with the points you made against the assumption, it was pretty clear that i hadn't thought that one through. In short, I fucked up. O well, on to the next one. That sort of thing, y'know?

Zaz's Post 270 - Look at Looker, you are friggin hilarious. That game rocked, dude, you're the best. You make me want to become a mod. Inspiration!

Zaz's Post 292 - Usually when a player says they're playing by gut, it appears to me that this gives them some sort of leeway to be capricious and fickle. They can change their vote or their stance and call it gut. If they're wrong, no biggie, they were playing on gut, not reasoning. TO be brief, I really just don't trust people's guts to have my best interest in mind.

Zaz's Post 309 - Well, to be honest, I've been trying to build this big, mechanized formula that, if I follow it, it will help me win at mafia no matter what. Currently, it sucks. Waiting for four key players within the thread to respond before I respond was a stipulation of the formula; however, the formula is currently being revised, which is why I'm responding to you as opposed to only Cookie & Shrinehme at this point in the game.

EBWOP

Bringing up the idea of a jester, is actually scummy

Why?

-Good way to lynch a player who says stupid things.
-Jester discussion is a distraction from scumhunting, which is good for scum.

To the former, placing forth the possibility x is a Jester when their actions are scummy would be used to

deter

their lynch, [e.g. "No, x just looks like a Jester to me. Y looks like actual scum; let's lynch him."] no?

Latter makes sense.

I think the point he was trying to make would be your ability to manipulate the situation to your liking, whether X be your scum partner or Y, in which instance you've simply distracted the town long enough to hop on a bandwagon which you have no intention to take anywhere.

[Looker]

Looker, I hope you realize that having someone justify their actions with a formula isn't that much more satisfying than them justifying their actions with their gut. I love the idea that you are looking for patterns and trying to beat the system, but don't forget that you have to also convince us you aren't scum and convince us that the people you want lynched are scum.

Yes, you're absolutely right, which is why this is becoming something much bigger than this thread, but moreso a sitewide development. It's kind of embarassing seeing as I've been on this site for a while, but I'm still learning how to play mafia. It seems like the more I make mistakes and just be honest about it, the better I get though, so this game should be a bumpy one.

But a quick question, though: Is this more of a waiting game? Because I noticed you can never just jump out and catch scum right off, you have to wait several pages before you can even hope to get something. Is it like that in every game?

Cookie's Post 328 - I know, Cookie, I'm sorry, but I like, you, man. I likez my Cookie.

[Looker]

Cookie's Post 331 - Which brings up a good point which I should have heeded a long time ago. Certain games are not conducive to the learning experience. I thought that I could jump into any old game and learn how to play mafia, but that is not so. You and your words are easily manipulated, whether by scum or egotistical town, and then you're lynched, having learned nothing more than to keep your mouth shut. Or at least that's how it's been for me so far.

Sanjay's Post 330 & Post 332 - The formula's really stupid, to be honest. It's just a series of probabilities based upon voting patterns and bandwagons; however, just like all other advances of modern-day technology, it's only purpose is to keep me from having to think so I'm

thinking

about ditching it.

And as far as the BrotherNature thing, I wonder why he's voting Nook of all people.

And another thing: Do pressure votes work if they're actually depicted as pressure votes?

[Looker]

Faith. That's what it all boils down to. I had faith that the formula would provide, but it didn't. Based on the votes we had when you posed your question...OMG, this sucks. I don't know, Sanjay.

To help with the xplanation, can I ask you a question?: Can you, in anyway at this time, see both EtherealCookie and Shrinehme as key players within this game at this point before any other votes are moved or changed?

[Looker]

I'm really trying to get this out but it's, it's kind of stupid to me now.

[Looker]

Crap, a read? What's that? Telling whether I'm scum or town based on how confused I am? How does confusion affect alignment, Sanjay?

But everybody's voting Cookie, he has the most votes, and Cookie's voting Shrinehme, so it's like everyone's converged upon them. Does that make any sense?

[Looker]

@Sanjay - I believe it could be telling once they turned up town, which is undeniably possible in the case of Cookie. Not to defend him individually, but there are several players, including myself, who just aren't the best when it comes to a lyrical battle of wits. We can't weave words like other people do.

But, either way, I know what's best for town so I'll ask this question instead: Do you believe we've received sufficient enough information to pinpoint scum in the event that Cookie turns up town?

[Looker]

NOT to say that Shrinehme is scum, or at least no moreso than IdiotKing, BigBear, etc.

[Looker]

Zaz, you rock.

Thanks ^.^
Post 325 shows that we're dealing with town-Looker and not scum-Looker.

Gah, the dreaded meta! You don't think meta is counterintuitive and that it prohibits an individual's development or growth as a player?

And another thing: Do pressure votes work if they're actually depicted as pressure votes?

Nope.

So I'm guessing the following could be seen as daytalk/daysignals? But, then again, that could be jumping the gun on my part.

Umn. I'm not sure very many of my posts were all that serious. Was just messing around most the time. But anyway, like we've all asked 100 times now, we'd like to hear your opinions on everything so far. Since he hasn't posted since a while,

Vote: nook

to get some pressure going.

However, this I'm having a hard time swallowing. I can't define it as scummy, but moreso as intentionally anti-town; however, could it be egotism? The allusion/reference to Cookie I don't like, which leads me to believe moreso that Cookie is town being wagoned by scum. As I said, I believe the meek to be easily manipulated in the game of mafia.

Lulz is it really that hard to put all of that into one post instead of spamming up two pages? And yes, I'm a fan of Higurashi.

Post 169 – Why aren’t you discussing, while observing, brothernature? Also, noted that you showed right up after a player voted for you.

Like I said, I'm observing and lurking, just not posting. He asked where I was. I told him I was lurking.

You lurk and instead of giving your own intake, you ask for the opinion of the new guy? What’s up with that, brothernature?

Indeed I do.

At least he has posted content, something you haven't done since a while. How come?

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've never posted any content whatsoever.


And to Sanjay, I really don't like Cookie right now. He's posting all this random shit and distracting the town, making it harder for us to get stuff done. My random shit, however, is more so on topic, just in a jokingly way, most the time.

[Looker]

Mod, can we get a prod on nook?

We're on a new page? Zaz must have been posting again!

Post 325 shows that we're dealing with town-Looker and not scum-Looker.

How does it show that (meta-based reasons?)?


Just a thought, but if EC gets lynched and flips town, I could see Looker as trying to gain townie points as scum by saying he thinks EC is a townie with an interesting playstyle.

Okay wait. You lynch EC, he flips town, so then you lynch me? That sounds like a personal gameplan to me, Kitty...

Zaz, you rock.

Thanks ^.^
Post 325 shows that we're dealing with town-Looker and not scum-Looker.

I've had town-looker replace and act all anti-town. So, I wouldn't be sure about that. I don't think Looker'd be silly enough to just stick with one personality depending on if he was town or scum.

Stick with one personality? I can't even stick with one gender! Zaz, r u the only one who knows I'm a she?

I agree. It does look scummy.

Scummier than my alleged "creating undue suspicion"?

I had taken your theory to be some kind of joke to try to get a rise out of people, but now that I find out you were seriously floating it, I think I'm gonna throw you a vote, for trying to create undue suspicion and for dodging my question for no good reason.

Unvote

Vote: Looker

[Looker]

Now that you've reminded me of who I was voting for, Looker, why don't you tell me who you were voting for and how happy you are with that vote right now.

I was voting for Cookie for forever (I think he was my RVS vote); however, when people started jumping on him, I unvoted. I'm currently happy with that unvote.

@BigBear & IdiotKing: Are you still happy with your current position on the Cookie wagon?

[Looker]

Just in case you forgot, because it was a while ago.

Unvote:
Vote: EtherealCookie

I think you put shrine at L-1, which is too close to a lynch for my liking.

I'll answer the other questions shortly. Just slightly busy.

Thoughts:

I had no idea what was going on until page 6 or so, to be honest. I couldn't tell what was RVS, sarcasm, or serious. You folks make my brain hurt.

As for scumtells:

I think Far_Cry is an interesting case, jumpy. He seemed to get serious far before anyone else did, and reacted... oh, what's the term... negatively? Now that he's replacing out I feel somewhat sad, because now the replacement can't elaborate on what Far_Cry was thinking.

EC also annoys me like all hell. I think it's suspicious to withhold information and reasoning for one's actions (I hate gambits and anything that could be mistaken as such), which makes EC out to be a living, breathing scumtell.

Unvote

Vote EC

On the other hand I don't see BB's actions as suspicious. Anything to generate discussion is a good thing, and if he did really vote for a no-lynch to get us out of RVS, I applaud that, especially since without it we'd probably still be in RVS.

One other thought:
It's natural to assume there's a Godfather in games of Mafia. As far as I can remember I've never been in a game

without

one, so I can understand why folks would expect there to be one.

[Looker]

Zaz, you rock.

Thanks ^.^
Post 325 shows that we're dealing with town-Looker and not scum-Looker.

I've had town-looker replace and act all anti-town. So, I wouldn't be sure about that. I don't think Looker'd be silly enough to just stick with one personality depending on if he was town or scum.

I've seen Looker play three games now (Not counting this one):
-One in which I thought she was one of the more pro-town looking players (though I was scum)
-One in which I thought she was one of the scummiest players (I think I even voted her)
-One in which she was scum.

I've seen three different Looker's, yet I'm still certain she's town in this game.

All a part of my feminine mystique
The Good-Lookin' Lookeress strikes again

[Looker]

@BigBear: There's nothing to be sorry about, you weren't going to lynch

us

.

[Looker]

So...who won the jester argument? Sorry, but DRK's sig is a serious turn-off. It hurt my eyes...

[Looker]

It takes 7 to lynch.

7

[Looker]

Yeah, I second the votecount, I'm lost.

Thanks alot, Peabody!

[Looker]

vote brothernature

[Looker]

here here

Reminder: Brother, Shrine, Cookie, & Nook

[Looker]

Just so everyone knows, that's L-2.

@IK
Can you think of any non-mafia motivations for EC's actions? I'm just looking for a yes or a no (I asked you specifically because your experience playing with me makes you more likely to figure out what I'm implying).

I don't think EC is a bad lynch, but I would prefer to look in other directions right now. Of course, FC's replacing out puts a bit of a damper on that, but I'm keeping my vote on him until his replacement convinces me to take it off.

This is the quote that sparked the jester discussion. (DRK admitted that was the intention of the post later on.)

I think lynching the jester is a bad idea. and if there really is a jester, which I doubt, i think they should be either vig'd or night killed. Bringing up the idea of a jester, is actually scummy, I forget who brought it up, but it's scummy.

BigBear says that talking about a jester is scummy.

Nook brought it up (I quoted it a few posts ago ).

This is in response to BigBear saying bringing up jester is scummy. Funny, if I'm not mistaken, DeathRowKitty sparked that conversation. Trying to pin the blame on someone else and cast suspicion on them?

The jester win condition and the town win condition aren't mutually exclusive. That's just my two cents. I'm done talking about that possibility for now.

A few posts later, he tries to shut down the discussion about the jester that he started. To me, this reads like scum trying to avoid suspicion. Right now, I like DRK as a vote more than EC.

This is what started it, is it not? That whole argument about the jester ordeal? Confid pickin fights? How did something so trivial manage to be blown into such a big ordeal? Surely it couldn't have been done on accident.

I have a wild speculation that he's a Jester out to get lynched as quickly as possible.

That's what I was trying to suggest to IK.

@IK
I thought you might pick up on the fact that I said "non-mafia motivations," when I normally use "scum" almost exclusively to refer to the mafia. By non-mafia, I was trying to imply third party (perhaps one that wanted to be lynched or accumlate votes).

Of course, best play with a jester is probably not to mention it and to just lynch the person anyway. Why? Glad you asked!

Jester=insta-lose in lylo via self-vote. Therefore we can't bring a jester to lylo. This means that if we find ourselves one mislynch from lylo, unless we're sure someone is scum, we're forced to lynch the jester and put ourselves in lylo, which is an unfortunate prospect. We can continue this reasoning down the line, with the conclusion that a jester becomes more and more dangerous to the town the longer (s)he's left alive. Optimal play is (probably) to lynch immediately, without mentioning the possibility and try to gain some tells off the wagon. A jester wants to be lynched and (as much as I would love to spite a jester by refusing to lynch him/her), it's in the town's best interest to lynch a jester. That's of course why jester is a stupid role in most games.

Optimal play by EC right now (theoretically) if he were a jester is probably to claim jester right now and get himself lynched. However, having the lynch already determined has a tendency to take the town out of scumhunting mode. If EC is a jester and decides to do this, I would strongly push to lynch someone else out of spite.

Keep the possibility in mind now that it's out in the open, but right now, we have to play as though EC isn't jester (most mini normals don't have jesters and he probably isn't one...).

@ZazieR
What do you think of your predecessor's play?

You did start the jester discussion. 1. Why are you lying? 2. Why are you getting so defensive?[/quote]
"Why are you lying?" is something I take as a rhetorical question. What possible answer could be derived in response to this question? I believe Confid's and DRK's argument was contrived.

Meh, I'm not gonna restate the case again. I believe that you were the one who sparked the jester discussion, you believe that you didn't and that nook did. We'll agree to disagree.

No one said anything to nook about this? No one asked his opinion? Where is his input about all this? Where are even any of his posts in any of the quotes? This leads me to believe that the argument was contrived and that it was an intentional exaggeration.

This is frustrating.

Right now the of the two best leads that we have on so far, one is being extremely random and annoying while the other is getting replaced. Both would have been good lynches for the town today IMO, but Far_Cry is getting replaced and to be fair we should give his replacement some time to settle in.

And of course theres EC, who doesn't seem to be playing to win at all, in that case he should be replaced with someone who is actually willing to play, either that or I have a wild speculation that he's a Jester out to get lynched as quickly as possible. Simply because of the assumption that everyone plays to win, and the only way he'll be able to win playing like this is if has the role of the jester. This could just be idle speculation, of course.

And, lurkers like BN don't help much. Stop lurking and get something in before we start shifting our attention on you.

I'mma gonna do a reread soon to try to find some more clues while Far_Cry is being replaced.

Yes, I said it could be just idle speculation. Still I'm working on my stated assumption that everyone plays to win, so if he's not a jester he would be a good lynch anyway if we don't get any better cases. Even if he pro-town in character, he is not being pro-town in behaviour.

No, it was perfectly clear.

You believe that DRK thinks that nook started the jester conversation, correct?

I fail at wording posts. This is going to look scummy, but what I meant was that neither of us are going to change our minds on this matter. He says that nook started it, I say that he started it.

Nook says that Nook started it.

Do you think that if DRK actually does believe that nook started the conversation about jesters then his reaction is unreasonable?

No I do not.

I admit that my theory is not as strong now as when I first posted it, but the possibility still exists for him to be scum lying through his teeth after being caught.

"lying through his teeth" as opposed to "lying" gives off the feeling of AtE to me, but I'm new so I could just be spouting new terms I've learned

Implying a jester is starting a conversation by placing the thought into the thread.

Yet you dominated several full pages with DRK concerning the matter. It seems the only people affected were you...and DRK. It wasn't that important to the rest of us, which is another reason why I believe this was an old-fashioned setup.

My point is that you're being inconsistent. Unless you can reconcile your statements and show me a post where I either started a conversation about jesters or said I was trying to start a conversation about jesters (or whatever your view is supposed to be) IN YOUR NEXT POST, my vote will land on you IN MY NEXT POST.

Caps don't scare me. Your question implied a jester. You were the first person in the thread to do so. Therefore, you started the conversation about a jester. I'm done talking about this because, as Peabody pointed out, it's trivial.

I've kept it going in the past because I like to argue. But now we are to the point where we are talking in circles. I've already pointed out the post several times before.

I'd just like to know the point of the argument. ConfidAnon, what were your intentions for this dispute?

unvote
vote ConfidAnon

[Looker]

Simply put: He started it.

[Looker]

okelidokeliy

[Looker]

So does that mean the people voting brother can...um...transfer over to Confid...?

[Looker]

Just posting to show my face and stuff. @ Zaz, I forgot, but I'll get back in all these games around the site. Just kinda busy right now...

[Looker]

unvote

Just posting to show my face and stuff. @ Zaz, I forgot, but I'll get back in all these games around the site. Just kinda busy right now...

At what is that part regarding me aimed?

Once again, I forgot.

So does that mean the people voting brother can...um...transfer over to Confid...?

What's the deal with this post, Looker?

Don't know, cuz now I'm interested in

vote: Don_Johnson

[Looker]

Looker

, why did you vote DJ?

Because my current conclusion is that the Mafia are:

Don_Johnson, Sanjay, & [Cookie - OR - BigBear]

, so

FoS the whole lot of'em

.

[Looker]

Sanjay - Was working under the assumption that you and Confid are town
DJ - Because I doubt Zaz, Peabody, and Shrine are all scum
Cookie - OR - BigBear - I'm leaning town on Nook & Cydonia.

So sorry guys but working off limited resources, including time, will try to actually benefit the site

[Looker]

Sanjay - Was working under the assumption that you and Confid are town
DJ - Because I doubt Zaz, Peabody, and Shrine are all scum

Cookie - OR - BigBear - I'm leaning town on Nook & Cydonia.

So sorry guys but working off limited resources, including time, will try to actually benefit the site

Updated to reflect Cydonia's recent unvote

[Looker]

Cuz I'm working under the assumption that Mafia won't lynch other Mafia.

[Looker]

but if it does we benefit from one less mafia

[Looker]

i dont do townie points

[Looker]

who was that guy in your last avatar? ive seen him somewhere before.

elaboration - i doubt mafia will kill off their own if they dont have to. could u ask a more specific question, i dont think i'm saying what you want me to say.

[Looker]

Questions
- Why weren't one of you, Peabody, and Shrine included in the scumlist?
- How does KoC's unvote affect my suspicions when KoC wasn't in my scumlist?

Answers
- For me to believe DonJ is town, I would have to assume that the three of you are scum, which would be the case if DonJ were to flip town. I'm always planning for the next day, so if DonJ were to flip town, I'd suspect the three of you; however, we can't lynch the three of you today so I'll suspect DonJ today.
- Was using both Nook's and KoC's votes as a method of triangulation on Cookie, who was voting for BigBear. (I am utterly aware of how stupid this sounds, trust me)

I'm still learning, so it would be really helpful if you can tell me just how much you disagree. Thanx, Zaz.

[Looker]

What's PoE?

And people started moving their votes around. I doubt Confid's scum alone so I try to see how the entire thread is moving before I base any allegations.

[Looker]

O I guess

[Looker]

but wouldn't the only way to beat that mechanic be to bus and lynch a scumpartner?

[Looker]

thats wat i did

[Looker]

o no, no, that's not it. i was talking to drk when i said that. im sorry.

[Looker]

don't worry, dude, i got u. we'll lynch u before you get back, don't worry, no problem.

[Looker]

DJ, why did you have to replace BrotherNature? Couldn't you have replaced as town? I like playing games with you

[Looker]

Why? All I have to do is tie you up for say, about 2 more weeks...

[Looker]

I'd just like to know the point of the argument. ConfidAnon, what were your intentions for this dispute?
unvote
vote ConfidAnon

My original post was made to scumhunt. The argument continued because I foundhis insistence scummy. I'm convinced that I'm right, and I'm the kind of guy that loves to argue.

So this means that you're wasting our time? You don't find DRK suspicious at all, you simply like to argue? Not to say that this is a bad thing, it was entertaining to say the least, and I'm sure we can dredge up some interactions in the instance of either your or DRK's demise, lynch or otherwise.

Don't know, cuz now I'm interested in vote: Don_Johnson

You don't know why you made a post? I'm leaning more towards scatter-brained than scummy, but still worth noting.

Because my current conclusion is that the Mafia are: Don_Johnson, Sanjay, & [Cookie - OR - BigBear], so FoS the whole lot of'em.

Explain why?

RESUME SKIMMINGLATER ON 24

So many things happen at once, who can keep up? And the team has changed regarding my suspicions. As of this post, I believe the culprits are Don_Johnson, Furry, and Sanjay. I'm also suspicious of Cookie or BigBear; however, I believe their role, whomever has it, to be one consistent of pro-towness.

Furry's Post 679 - I have absolutely nothing to say about this post, I merely wished to welcome you to the game and let you know that I find your avatar to be one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.

[Looker]

EBWOM: Edit By Way Of Madness
Sanjay, Furry, & Cydonia - My apologies, I hadn't noticed Cydonia's vote for DRK.

Yeah, I don't really know why I'm still voting for you, when you aren't even second on my suspect list right now.

Unvote

Vote: ConfidAnon

Did you write a suspect list? I wanted to look at it.

don_johnson always brings in his "I always play differently to avoid generating a meta" crap when he's town, from my experience, interestingly.
So I think, what with the DRK jester-crap, for now, I will

Vote: DeathRowKitty

also.
Feel free to plead your case.

unvote
vote Knight of Cydonia

Only because I don't see the severity, or the relevance, of the entire Jester debate.

Furry's Post 679 - My brain's still chewing on this.

ConfidAnon's Post 681 - I was hoping you'd start on the people voting for you and give me a headstart. O well.

So this means that you're wasting our time? You don't find DRK suspicious at all, you simply like to argue? Not to say that this is a bad thing, it was entertaining to say the least, and I'm sure we can dredge up some interactions in the instance of either your or DRK's demise, lynch or otherwise.

No, I had a valid point to prove. The argument

escalated

because I like to argue.

So many things happen at once, who can keep up? And the team has changed regarding my suspicions. As of this post, I believe the culprits are Don_Johnson, Furry, and Sanjay. I'm also suspicious of Cookie or BigBear; however,

I believe their role, whomever has it, to be one consistent of pro-towness.

Possible role fishing, anyone?

I can't see how this is fishing.

[Looker]

Q: Why does KoC's vote for DRK garner suspicions from me?
A: The only people who know who are town are the Mafia and I felt we were falling into a sort of fallacy in regards to the Confid/DRK debate, a "pick one or the other" fallacy, or at least this is my current opinion. (Which collaborates with my suspicions of Furry, Sanjay, and KoC).

I understand that I change votes alot and that sometimes I may appear rather esoteric, but I try to maintain a consistent strain of reason within my actions, even if the explanation of this reason jeopardizes said reason and thusly said reason cannot be reasoned. Comprende?

[Looker]

Our Top Suspects?

DeathRowKitty (4) [L-3] - ConfidAnon, BigBear, Cydonia, Don_Johnson
ConfidAnon (3) [L-4] - Furry, Sanjay, DeathRowKitty
Don_Johnson (3) [L-4] - ZazieR, Shrinehme, Peabody

[Looker]

Bringing up a Jester = steering the town away from looking for scum, onto finding a hypothetical Jester that may not exist.
Bringing up a Jester = creating unnecessary speculation. This is the internet, we all mistrust each other enough as it is. Jester speculation begins all kinds of "should we really lynch him, he might WANT to be lynched" WIFOM.

Looker: your suspicions of me are based on what prior to my DRK vote, precisely? I see you took someone off your old scumlist because you were working on the assumption (not necessarily true by any stretch of imagination) that scum won't lynch scum, and I had unvoted them, but I never really saw any reason given beyond that. Feel free to point me to the massive case I totally missed, though, because right now it just looks like a chainsaw for DRK.

It's hard to tell when you're being sarcastic. Was it your intention to confuse me?

I disagree with the first sentence, solely due to my confidence in the minds of my fellow players as well as my confidence in my own mind. Simply bringing something up shouldn't steer anything. I could bring up dolls right now, but it wouldn't incline you to debate about them for four pages.

And, in regards to your second sentence, I believe "mistrust" is rather dramatic. We're simply playing a game together. That's all it is - a game. An addicting one, but still a game.

As far as my suspicions, I believe you might have misunderstood my assumption. My intent was to generate a win-win situation, not to denounce the concept of bussing.

Re: "the massive case I totally missed" I wouldn't call it massive. It's simply that I see no relevance of Jester-theory discussion to scumminess if no one interceded to state such until after the fact, which is why I believe both Confid and DRK to be town at the moment and those utilizing a simple discussion as scumminess to be members of the Mafia.

You said yourself that Confid was about as town as it gets.

Confid is about as town as it gets.

unvote

Because I have no idea why my predecessor voted Cookie yet, and I don't want to contribute to any stupid lynches.

Why not feel the same about DRK? Despite your insistence that Mafia vote other Mafia, do you not believe that Town can vote other Town?

[Looker]

Furry, welcome to the game.

Looker, I don't have written scumlists. At the time Confid was my top suspect. Then brothernature.

Why didn't you ask for a list at the time? I could have answered you much better. Just curious about it now?

Never mind, sugah, just tryin to catch up is all.

You said yourself that Confid was about as town as it gets.

Confid is about as town as it gets.

unvote

Because I have no idea why my predecessor voted Cookie yet, and I don't want to contribute to any stupid lynches.

Why not feel the same about DRK? Despite your insistence that Mafia vote other Mafia, do you not believe that Town can vote other Town?

Of course. The thing is, DRK isn't "just" discussing Jester speculation with CA, he's trying to make CA appear scummy by refusing to admit that he

did

bring up Jesters first, implied or no, and suggesting that CA is trying to make him the scapegoat for this. If he had been willing to hold up his hands and say "Yeah, I brought Jesters up, my bad, guys" I wouldn't find him as scummy. The way he's refusing to admit this, and the poor light he's trying to cast on myself and CA by way of this denial, is why I'm voting him. I have far more reason to trust CA than I do DRK.

It simply appears to me that DRK was defending himself against CA's allegations that he sparked a Jester discussion, as opposed to steering town, and, in the process, deduced that CA was changing his stance, as stated in Post 459. And as far as the "Yeah, I brought Jesters up, my bad, guys" and "refusing to admit", what if you're wrong? You're voting him because he's not saying what you want him to say? Which is "Yeah, I brought Jesters up, my bad, guys, ConfidAnon and Knight of Cydonia are right."? I'm currently trying to find the post which started all of this so that, ironically, it can also end it.

And I noticed that you used the term "trust" again. Wouldn't "believe" fit more adequately? What makes you think that you can trust ConfidAnon? Playstyle?

I'm done talking about this

Weird. You only seem to say that when you're out of valid responses.

---

The entire argument I've been having with CA has been over, as shrine called it, "a small detail." However, it's a big deal in the context of what happened before it.

CA's "case" on me started in this post. I think I've already said enough about the inaccuracy of the content of this post, so I won't go into detail on that in this post. Just notice that the entire case is based on the premise that I started the jester conversation. Without that premise, the entire case falls apart. That's where this argument comes in.

A few posts later, upon realizing that nook was the first one to specifically mention a jester, we get this quote buried in one of CA's posts:

You asked the question with the clear purpose of starting a discussion about a Jester.

, mixed of course with insistence that I started the conversation about jesters. This in and of itself is contradictory. Sure the quote doesn't explicitly say I didn't start the conversation, but saying I intended to start the conversation about jesters is a pretty big concession to make considering he's compromising on the foundation of his argument.

Not long later, I post this statement:

I'm not seeing how the original point is valid at all...

to which he responds:

Meh, I'm not gonna restate the case again. I believe that you were the one who sparked the jester discussion, you believe that you didn't and that nook did. We'll agree to disagree.

The person with a vote on me decides we should agree to disagree. Interesting. If his case has merit, why wouldn't he want to advertise it to the rest of the game? Notice also that he says he thinks I honestly believe that nook started the jester conversation. That's basically admitting I wasn't trying to start the jester conversation, which nullifies his entire case. Logically, his vote is still on me at this point. When questioned, he retracts that statement and changes it to the contents of this post. When questioned further, he says his theory is no longer as strong as it was, a happy medium between defending garbage and admitting he was wrong.

Next, we get this quote from CA:

Absolutely. You said yourself that's what you were implying, so it's natural to assume you would have followed up with your implications.

According to this, I no longer started the jester conversation. Suddenly, his stance has changed to the fact that I would have started the conversation given the opportunity, a huge assumption to be basing an entire case on. This quote comes after Zazie pointed out where I told IK I just wanted a yes or no answer, so I don't see any logical reason to assume I would have "followed up with [my] implications."

I quote this post in its entirety because it's just so full of crap I don't want to miss anything:

Given what Zazie quoted in post 425, why do you think I was intending to start a conversation about jesters? Also, how did your position change from me starting the conversation about jesters to me planning to start the conversation about jesters?

I believe you intended to start a conversation about jesters because you said so yourself. Your ignorance of your own post is telling.

Post 388 is where I quoted the post where you admitted that you were implying a jester.

My position has not changed, I don't know why you believe it has.

Let's analyze the three paragraphs seperately (and out of order):
1) I never once said I intended to start a conversation about jesters and when asked to find such a post, CA failed to produce one. Notice also that he once again says I

intended

to start a conversation about jesters, as opposed to his previous stance that I did start the conversationa about jesters.
3) His position didn't change? Really? Going from saying I started the conversation about jesters to saying I intended to, when that's the foundation of his case, isn't changing his position?
2) I admitted I was implying a jester=I admitted I wanted to start a conversation about a jester? I suppose I implied it instead of mentioning it outright to increase the odds of that conversation occurring?

Questioned once again, CA gives us another gem:

Implying a jester is starting a conversation by placing the thought into the thread.

[sarcasm]Nice way to cover your inconsistencies, CA.[/sarcasm] Suddenly, I never actually said I intended to start a conversation about a jester; now I said I was implying a jester. I guess, naturally, this amounts to a confession of intending to start a conversation about jesters?

Here's CA's next post:

You started it . . . whats the point of arguing this point? There is very little difference between either argument.

Now suddenly, I started the conversation about jesters. Of course, realizing he's cornered, he tries to make the argument sound trivial.

Now, in his most recent post, we get this:

Your question implied a jester. You were the first person in the thread to do so. Therefore, you started the conversation about a jester. I'm done talking about this because, as Peabody pointed out, it's trivial.

He's finally solidified his position. I started the conversation about a jester by being the first to imply a jester in one of my posts. In his nervousness, he even messed up the person who called the argument trivial (Peabody instead of shrine).

tl; dr
CA is scum. He's been changing his position to accomodate his points being shot down to defend a theory based on incorrect evidence.

Unvote, vote: ConfidAnon

/confirm

Starting to read...

Hurrah, a fresh new perspective has arrived.

[Looker]

@All: IIRC?

DeathRowKitty's Post 705 - Very well-put.

the asterisk bit can often seem smug or arrogant. there are some players who utilize it more than others, but compared to your playstyle in the previous game i felt it may have been exhibiting overconfidence. i.e. you read as obvscum to me, but have most of the thread fooled at that point in the game.

I used the asterisks more to explain why I wasn't posting as much content than anything else. I'm also not sure where you're going with this. I had most of the town fooled in the last game IIRC. Clearly, I didn't have ryan or IK fooled and I received some hostility from hiphop towards the end of Day 1 when I unvoted Jason, but I don't even remember making anyone else's scumlist during Day 1. Why would I be more confident in this game?

i'm not going anywhere with this. you brought it up. i never said you were more confident in this game. i never compared your confidence level to last game. i simply pointed out that the post read to me like overconfident scum. maybe i'm not choosing the right describer word, but that's how i see it. there is not much to argue here. i told you your best option(building a case on who you think is scum), but for some reason you want to continue talking to me. that's not going to get youy anywhere. i think you're scum.

Was your Post 559 the full extent of your case?

page 5:

looker is scumhunting. i guess there's a first for evrything.

103 is horrible, trerible, no good wifomic meta defense that essentially creates a circular pattern of knowledge confirmation. "bear is competent scum, so he wouldn't no lynch as scum, so he must be town, but if i think he's town and he's really scum then he's most certainly competent scum."

106 echoes my thoughts.

107 is way off. shrine distances from bear rather pedantically(is that a word?) points out obvious possible town motivations for bear's play. post reads more as fluff than anything.

108 *facepalm* looker: confid ran the wifom. not fc. not sure why you question one and not the other, especially when you question the one who implies bear might be scum after stating you want to vote for bear. good ol' looker! conclusion: coincidence? whatever.

109 leans more and more scum on shrine.

116 breath of fresh logic. i agree with the vote, but it is inexplained.

117 again: *facepalm* one self voter is enough.

cookie is a bit... spastic. no problem with an L-2 vote on shrine here. unfortunately for us it seems as though the resident jokers of ms have all been gathered together in one thread. at this point a random lynch seems like it might be the best idea. onward.

page 6:

shrine confirms he's scum.

vote: shrine

I don't see how WIFOM at this point in the game really helps the town.

then why did you self vote and then vote no lynch? claiming gambit in retrospect(i did it to spark discussion) is lame.

add bear to "willing to lynch" list.

The truth is, long and active day ones are very profitable, and me creating this type of discussion is priceless.

^^ yes and no. the price of wifomic self votes and no lynch discussion starters are more often than not trips down wifom lane that do nothing more than spam threads full of useless discussion that is better off taking place in a general theory forum as opposed to a game where players have to replace in and read through pages of crap about nothing.

129 is correct. cases without material to respond to are difficult to respond to.

add cookie to "willing to policy lynch" list.

DRK 131 is a bit non-sequitur. it seems as though shrine is who he finds scummier, but continues attack on farcry for defense of a "bad" vote? i am not following. feels like he should be jumping to shrine here but is choosing not to. filed for future reference.

132 is fail logic by cookie. no surprise there.

DRK now defends shrine. very odd. reads to me like: "lynch shrine, then lynch DRK regardless of the flip."

DRK echoes reasoning of "L-2 out of random stage is bad." fail logic. scum is scum. time is relative.

unvote, vote DRK

not voting shrine is okay, but defending him makes no sense.

139 comes out of the shadows attacking the "easiest" target. lots of quote, not many words...

peabody as well. ^^ read above comment.

if cookie is lynched it should be policy for anti-town behavior, but to imply it is scummy to keep a suspect wagon at L-2 seems counterproductive.

i like 145

i hope we have a vig and i hope its not cookie.

i like 148

i don't like 149. there is no "proper" way to play mafia. posts like this more often come from scum trying to look town. vote stays.

DRK
Shrine
Confid
all for independently scummy behavior.

cookie for policy.

end page 6.

[Looker]

Let's talk dolls, shall we?

[Looker]

Thus furthering my current case that neither Confid or DRK are scum.

All I need is your opinion, Furry, whether you believe this case to be realistic or not.

[Looker]

No, not really.

[Looker]

Ok, so if everyone's caught up and everyone's voting, who are we waiting for? Deadline?

[Looker]

i'm nowhere near caught up. don't recall saying i was. not sure what you mean in regards to my "case" against drk. i have spelled out my suspicions throughout my catch up posts. the post you refer to was the culmination of suspicions up to that point. not sure where i'll be as i go along here. if i get the time. clinicals are much more than i bargained for.

I see. My mistake. Take your time.

[Looker]

All I need is your opinion, Furry, whether you believe this case to be realistic or not.

I still havent decided if I find this question insulting or not.

There was no

intention

of insult.

Furry

- Sorry if I missed it earlier, but did you ever explain your town read on DRK?

Formation of wagons is quite a big one. Most of the people I have had anti-town reads on are attacking DKR. DRK has been on wagons of people that I have anti-town reads on. I know thinking the same things are not completely indicative of alignment, but I trust my reads enough.

Also I think the jester thing is a really bad thing to make a wagon on. Jester speculation is stupid, not scummy. Trying to make it scummy and actually basing an entire case off anything jester related, is far more scummy.

So wagons + other reads + case on DRK = town to me, and I am willing to vote most anyone but DRK to stop that lynch

KoC...?

don_johnson always brings in his "I always play differently to avoid generating a meta" crap when he's town, from my experience, interestingly.
So I think, what with the DRK jester-crap, for now, I will

Vote: DeathRowKitty

also.
Feel free to plead your case.

[Looker]

No not KoC...

that wouldnt accomplish

the goal

too well

. If you moved to CA, or we both moved to DJ that might work better. I guess it depends where the new replacements vote ends up.

The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.

Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because town are on his wagon already so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.

/confirm

Though I honestly won't have much time for this game until the weekend.

Hope to have a read through done by Friday, will probably post something or another then.

Hurrah, a fresh new perspective has arrived, etc. etc.

[Looker]

unvote

No not KoC...

that wouldnt accomplish

the goal

too well

. If you moved to CA, or we both moved to DJ that might work better. I guess it depends where the new replacements vote ends up.

The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.

Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because town are on his wagon already so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.

Why funny? I always have my set of goal to accomplish, built around defending town reads and lynching scum reads. One of my goals is not to have a DRK lynch.

Best way to reach two goals is a CA lynch, but a non-town read lynch is better then a no lynch, or town read one. KoC vote detracts from both goal.

My apologies, it reminded me of my math teacher. And I understand: a KoC vote would, indeed, detract from both of your goals. It's just that, with the situation currently as it is, neither lynch would help me set things straight either. I guess a re-evaluation is in order.

The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.

Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because

town are on his wagon already

so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.

What do you mean by the italicized? I would imagine there are town on every wagon. What makes the DJ wagon special?

Also, so psyched that archaebob is here.

My fingers will keep you updated with what my brain has to say whenever she gets back. So far, it seems, no one has had anything other than town reads on those perpetrating the DJ wagon.

unvote

This game is a real piece of work, lol. Y'all will be

very

lucky if I'm able to sort through this before next week.

And I love you too Sanjay.

I can't wait to see what you have to say.

[Looker]

- Currently, yes.
- Because they're not the ones I think are the Mafia, if that explanation will suffice.

You're in a room with an elephant on your right and a plant on your left. Over the intercom comes a voice, "Which one is the elephant."

You point to the elephant.

"Why? Why not the item on your left?"

"Because the elephant's right there," you say, still pointing.

"But why? What makes you believe that that which is on your right is an elephant?"

"Because it's an elephant!"

"Do you get non-elephant reads from the item on your left...?"

"No, what are you talking abo...?"

"Then why do you think what's on your..."

"It's an elephant."

"Why?"

"Because it's an elephant."

"Why would...?"

"Because it's G*ddamn elephant!"

ENDEX

[Looker]

Under a week until deadline and I currently have the most votes despite lack of any sort of decent case whatsoever. I don't get it.

Let's see who's on my wagon so I can understand this better:

1. CA is on my wagon because I somehow started the jester discussion.
2. KoC is on my wagon because impying a jester is scummy (waiting on his response as to why it's scummy in my situation).
3. BB is on my wagon because...he read the argument between me and CA and yet didn't know I implied a jester (@ BB: If I haven't already directed the question at you, why would implying a jester be scummy in my situation, considering what I've pointed out).
4. DJ is on my wagon for everything I ever posted in my entire life and anything I have yet to post, but may or may not post in this or any future game.

Nope, still don't get it.

@Anyone and everyone
Am I just crazy or is something wrong here?

---

On a lighter note, lol @ Looker's post. I have an odd feeling that's not what SJ was looking for though...

Town 1. I still don't get the Jester Wars.
Mafia 2. I don't get how it's scummy in any situation
Mafia 3.

Unvote:
Vote: Shrinehme

Nice. I want to vote you, but moreso probably because I don't trust your intelligence than I believe you to be scum.

__?__4. Why don't you just vote him instead? That's the most suspicious reason presented of the four.

[Looker]

Q: Why would you think CA is town?
A: Because I don't see why you think he's scum. But, on top of that, I fail to see the reverance of the Jester Wars.

Hmm...I wonder where Zaz and Shrine have gone...

[Looker]

The Jester wars were indeed a giant mass of nulltell. The positions taken by either side on them are of more interest to me.

Every post that's made by someone who is voting for either CA or DRK without me a solid case summary is going to make me more and more suspicious of them.

Is this a warning/threat or a breadcrumb?

Off-topic: What exactly is a "case" supposed to look like? Because I really don't get that much into them.

I just kinda

vote Sanjay

and then say why:
Trying to find the Mafia amongst the ranks of Bear, Cydonia, Sanjay, and Furry.

[Looker]

Vote Count

don_johnson (3) - ZazieR Shrinehme
ConfidAnon (3) - Sanjay DeathRowKitty Furry

DeathRowKitty (4)

- ConfidAnon don_johnson BigBear Knight of Cydonia
Sanjay (1) - Looker

Not voting: archaebob Raskol

With 12 alive is takes 7 to lynch.

Looking for a replacement for Shrinehme

In response to his third prod Shrinehme requested a replacement. I am particularly upset with him because he requested it not because he does not have time, but because he did not like someone in the game. To my knowledge, no one has insulted or otherwise abused him in this game. Replacing out like that is simply wrong. It is unfair to all of you and disrespectful to me. For my part, he will not be welcome in any future games I run and I will not join any games for which he signs up.

I will be considering extending the deadline and am requesting input on that issue. I will be V/LA starting on Wed, 11 Nov, until Sun, 15 Nov. No biggie if that is the night phase and people are sending in actions. If I extend it, however, I will not be able to post vote counts or approve a replacement. Anyway, that is the situation. I feel we have a really good group in here now and wish you all had been here from the begining.

DEADLINE SET: 10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 3pm EST

I say no on the deadline extension and I would have rathered Shrinehme stick around, but it is what it is.

And RE:The Current Group - yea, I know, I'm awesome.

nobody else leave,

please

. this game is already too confusing

More than half of this game is replacements...lol.

I'm just burning through this thread like it's Southern California, and might even have something to say tomorrow. We'll see.

Can't wait to hear what you have to say, or see who you have to vote. Moreso the latter than anything else. Let's

kill

some people.

[Looker]

I will make a decision tommorrow before I leave work. Right now I am inclined to keep the deadline in place.

YAAY!

Day 1's already been long enough without a deadline extension imo.

YAAY! It's time for

Night

!

I disagree.

I would really appreciate time to collect myself and get some questions out before the day ends.

Though if I don't get my act together by this weekend, I of course won't at all begrudge the day going to night.

YAAY! Let's get some role confirmations!

Furry---not having time to push an alternate lynch is no reason not to make cases. If CA is truly your top suspect, then fine, but you shouldn't avoid pushing lynches just because you think you won't be supported. If you end up having to go with the majority to avoid a no lynch, fine, but do your best---sticking with easy bandwagons just because they're easy doesn't help the town, and makes people like me find you suspicious.

Sanjay---I unvoted because I was mistaken about one of my main points against him. I'm starting to feel a bit better about getting back on his wagon because he still hasn't caught up (I have and I replaced in after him), and he hasn't posted a case summary on DRK, but I'd rather feel things out a bit first before I vote again. I still need a better handle on the game.

Looker---Don't rolefish. Also, try not to get yourself modkilled :p

Hey, I'm trying. Are you talking about recently or before recently because it's happened like three times in the past month or so. I get so

zealous

! Lol. But what do you mean by rolefishing?

I

fished?

[Looker]

You asked me whether I was breadcrumbing. A lot of people will interpret that as you attempting to out power roles, which is a scum move.

BTW, I would appreciate a small extension. Maybe another 3-4 days?

But I thought Vanillas could crumb as well; however, I'm pretty sure this discussion would end up similar to that of the Jester Wars so I'll just drop it for now.

raskol: if you are going to vote me for not catching up as fast as you then you may as well do so. i live a dynamic lifestyle and i don't like replacing out of games. i don't think people have to participate at the same level as everyone else in order to offer reads on themselves or to decipher reads on others. i once replaced into a game and only read the rvs in order to place my vote for the day. so whatever.

why is everyone in such a rush to end the day?

Because I've read it and it's pretty much done.

Because this day SUCKS.

Yeah, and that, too....

Better hurry then. Not catching up is making you a decent policy vote.

I'm more concerned about your lack of case, though. Hearing your reasons for voting DRK would make me feel a whole lot better about you (that is, unless they're bad or scummy).

Policy vote? How so? You're not even voting...

Sanjay---This day has sucked, but that's exactly

why

it needs to be extended a bit. Now's our chance to get some decent content in to go on tomorrow.

I've gotten my content - 32 pages of it. Now I believe it's time for Night. I say get your votes where you want to get'em, cuz it's time to get sum shut-eye.

[Looker]

@KoC
Don't forget about my question for you here.

@BB
This is a reminder for you to.

---

Activity issues or not, I find it very interesting that neither player's responded after they both jumped on me over very little.

I think you're going to die, DRK, one way or the other. I'd be more suprised than anything if you were to somehow make it to D2.

[Looker]

There's still around 3 days and 19.5 hours until deadline. If I get lynched for a mass of null tells (a.k.a. what would happen if the day were to end now), someone better do some hardcore investigation of this wagon. There's no way everyone on my wagon is town.

Have you not heard a word of what I've been saying this whole time?

You flip town - KoC, BigBear
ConfidAnon flips town - Sanjay, Furry

Or at least that's as of this post. I'm not psychic, things could change in that 3-day, 19.5-hour span of null-tell analysis.

[Looker]

Hmm...should I give much thought to the both of you saying the exact same thing (as me)? Well, I'm guessing not if DRK is lynched. Archaebob, I'm just waiting for your vote. [Not rushing]

[Looker]

UNVOTE

VOTE: BIGBEAR

vote looker

I got it.

Just noticed we haven't had a post from ZazieR in over a week, though he's active in other threads.

Vote: Zazier

Hopefully a bandwagon will give him some incentive to post.

I regret it might be a little too late for that to actually benefit anything, but here's to your success.

Oh, and for anyone saying ZazieR has an excuse (the "La for school" in the signature)---check his activity in his other games. He has 25 onsite posts

today alone

. If that guy's V/La then I'm a flying raccoon.

So basically---ACTIVE LURKER OMG OMG LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH

Though, in all honesty, you might have actually found something.

FoS: SuperHotChick CodeName: ZazieR

[Looker]

Strangely enough, this increases my suspicions of Don_Johnson. If KoC, Furry, and BigBear aren't the Mafia, then Don_Johnson is...but with who...?

[Looker]

Strangely enough, this increases my suspicions of Don_Johnson. If KoC, Furry, and BigBear aren't the Mafia, then Don_Johnson is...but with who...?

DeathNote & Confid? But where would that leave KoC...?

Let's lynch KoC!

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

Two different players, barely any decent scumhunting.

That's SO two days ago

I think this is VC... this page needs one given vote movement as of late

don_johnson (2) - ZazieR Shrinehme
ConfidAnon (2) - DeathRowKitty Furry
DeathRowKitty (4) - ConfidAnon don_johnson BigBear Knight of Cydonia

BigBear (1) - Looker

Zazie (2) - Raskol archaebob
KoC (1) - Sanjay

Deadline in little under 72 hours

Minor adjustments made but you get the point.

By the way, if I haven't said this already, I am going to join Team Vote Practically Anywhere To Keep DRK From Being Lynched.

I have absolutely no respect for the reasons of half the people on that wagon.

If this is true, vote BigBear, you'll have more of a chance for a lynch than being the only one on KoC.

---

I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be a very long game

[Looker]

By the way, if I haven't said this already, I am going to join Team Vote Practically Anywhere To Keep DRK From Being Lynched.

I have absolutely no respect for the reasons of half the people on that wagon.

If this is true, vote BigBear, you'll have more of a chance for a lynch than being the only one on KoC.

Why do you think I am scum?

I don't think you're scum, I think you're far from it and one of our more intelligent players; however, I

do

believe you to have been assigned a Mafia role within this online game that we're playing with one another. This is simply due to the fact that I fail to see the point of any scrutiny regarding the Jester Debates. I'm not saying that this is concrete; however, I'm simply trying to make this a win-win situation. If DRK comes up Mafia, then hurrah, you're a hero to me, BigBear; however, if he comes up Town, I find you slightly more suspicious than the rest. It's a matter of balance and trying to keep said balance by preparing for all possibilities.

Besides, I told you from the beginning that I distrusted how intelligent you were. The smart ones are always the bad guys so there you have it.

DRK: don't claim. Instead, we need to organize a lynch of one of ZazieR, BigBear, or KoC

What about Furry? Why is he not in the mix? And how come everyone's jumping on KoC after the fact? Am I missing something? Either I'm ahead or I'm terribly behind. Is Furry the Jester...?

[Looker]

I'm looking for scum on the DRK wagon (most probable place for them to be at the moment) and Furry's not on the DRK wagon. Furry's given cases even before being asked. Furry's defended an easy lynch.

All of these things make Furry, in my eyes, less likely to be scum than either KoC or BigBear.

Between KoC and BigBear I prefer lynching BigBear as he will leave the most connections behind and has been individually scummier on top of that, whereas my main point against KoC is his position on the wagon and his pushing of a weak anti-town-tell (jester spec) as sole reason for that vote. BigBear's got both of those plus extra.

Anyway,

unvote

Vote: BigBear

I'm willing to compromise and go to KoC if necessary, with ZazieR remaining a viable choice if neither of those are workable (but would still prefer replacement instead---it's been over 8 days now and I think we're due for one!).

unvote
vote Don_Johnson

[Looker]

unvote
vote shrinehme

Did I miss something?

I don't think so... Did you?

So.... I'm not scum, but i've been given a mafia role?

Right.

unvote

vote: ZazieR

Kill it with fire.

ZazieR over Archaebob? Okay.

Mod: requesting to forcibly replace ZazieR. 8 days gone is over twice as long as the activity limit for forcible replacement.

Awwww...!

[Looker]

Como...?

[Looker]

One question (I'm SO self-centered): Does this happening have anything to do with...moi...? [Please say yes]

[Looker]

As far as I'm concerned CA is pretty much confirmed town.

Unless there's anybody who thinks that they can explain the motivation for a scum-CA to unvote like that two days before deadline, then

I fully expect to see this wagon disappear

.

I disagree and have a slight aversion to your pressuring/warning/threat tactics. But, then again, I

am

rather sensitive. {Stop scarin' all da fish!}

I would like for CA to weigh in with a vote, though.

This quote is activating my gut. If you really feel that the site standards should be upheld, then why didn't you push them as soon as Zazie hit the required length of inactivity, instead of waiting until after your little arguement?

At first I thought it was scummy and should be lynchable. Now I'm thinking ZazieR is just a prick, and the absence is explainable by that. Betterr to replace that kind of player rather than waste a lynch on a slot you've got few reasons to think is scum.

Can you explain how getting ZazieR repalced would further a scum-Raskol's goals more than a town-Raskol's?

Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that Zaz is a prick...? Ah, whatever.

One question (I'm SO self-centered): Does this happening have anything to do with...moi...? [Please say yes]

No... but if you want to imagine it does go ahead.

As far as I'm concerned CA is pretty much confirmed town.

Unless there's anybody who thinks that they can explain the motivation for a scum-CA to unvote like that two days before deadline, then I fully expect to see this wagon disappear.

Ehhh... maybe not confirmed town but I think it means that one of my reads are wrong. Once the vote moves somewhere there are more solid conclusions as to what it means. The DRK wagon is stalled and under attack though, given that DRK looks town, its going to look bad if he gets lynched for anyone on that wagon.

Once CA moves his vote I will have a better read on the whole scenario. Since it will be more obvious the entire goal of this move.

It seems the last two days of deadline are going to be filled with a bit of static.

am i winning?

I wouldn't call it winning, but you and DRK are tied I guess...

Donj (3) - Zaz; Shrine; Deathrow
Deathrow (3) - BigBear; Cydonia; Donj
Zaz (1) - Archaebob
Shrine (1) - Looker
Confid (1) - Furry
Cydonia (1) - Sanjay
BigBear (1) - Raskol
Archaebob (0)
Looker (0)
Raskol (0)
Furry (0)
Sanjay (0)

[Looker]

unvote
vote KoC

unvote

because things have been made clearer to me. Don't like the way certain people tried to turn "voting DRK for starting jester speculation + contributing to it's continuance in the game" into "voting DRK because ur scum lol".
donj's play matches his meta of not having a meta.
I will be fairly inactive today, Mums' birthday, might be able to weigh in tomorrow.

Well I can honestly say that I'm confused at this point; however, I'm fairly certain (at this point), due to the recent turn of events, that one of Don_Johnson and DeathRowKitty are Mafia.

---

Off-Topic: Happy Birthday to your Mumz.

[Looker]

unvote
vote KoC

unvote

because things have been made clearer to me. Don't like the way certain people tried to turn "voting DRK for starting jester speculation + contributing to it's continuance in the game" into "voting DRK because ur scum lol".
donj's play matches his meta of not having a meta.
I will be fairly inactive today, Mums' birthday, might be able to weigh in tomorrow.

Well I can honestly say that I'm confused at this point; however, I'm fairly certain (at this point), due to the recent turn of events, that one of Don_Johnson and DeathRowKitty are Mafia.

/facepalm

How helpful

i'm winning the lynch race with 36 hours until deadline. i am just trying to help.

looker: why is it an either/or between me and drk? what about the recent events has you thinking this way? why are you voting KoC?

furry: waiting on your bullshit "i'm waiting to see one thing" bullshit. spew anytime.


oh shit. didn't see shrine is getting replaced. my bad.

mod: requesting deadline extension.

I believe your partners are unwilling to bus you and I believe KoC is one of your partners.

however, I'm fairly certain (at this point), due to the recent turn of events, that one of Don_Johnson and DeathRowKitty are Mafia.

Expliquez, s'il vous plaît.

I can't see how the both of you could survive if you were both town, especially with such good wagons to hop on. Why haven't Mafia utilized this? This is the jist of my jilted reasoning; however, I am

very

tired at the moment and probably shouldn't be online. I really need to do better for myself. Good night.

[Looker]

"You think I'm Mafia? Why?"

"Why? Why aren't you

dead

yet...?"

O.o

[Looker]

So let me get this straight---you're going to softclaim at L-4 and then refuse to fullclaim?

There just isn't a /facepalm big enough for this. Seriously, where did you get this player list, Kreriov?

Now, now, there's no need to be condescending.

unvote

vote: don johnson

Refusing to fullclaim is just

stupid

.

Now, now, there's no need to be condescending.

I guess I don't care too much, though. I won't be around tomorrow anyway, so you guys can do what you like.

unvote

You seem to be so...emotional so close to deadline, yet you unvote. Are things going according to plan? Did you clear Mafia from the radar so now you really don't care who gets the lynch as long as you're not affiliated? A vote would be helpful, Raskol.

Seriously, Raskol?

I'd really rather you put your vote somewhere before deadline.

I agree/concur/am in indubitable concordance.

CA:what is scummy about soft-claiming? votes were not piling up. i was and am simply in the lead and will be lynched without a clear majority. without a conventional lynch process, that left me in a terrible spot. would you prefer that i wait and wait and wait and then claim right before deadline? then what?

PLEASE ANSWER: what benefit does a full claim offer town

at this time

?

That should be "offer

me

at this time", but that's irrelevant. What

is

relevant is whether Sanjay, Cydonia, or Raskol are in either your or DRK's Mafia. Are they or do you believe them to be so?

[Looker]

EBWOP: Disregard the "offer

me

at this time". I stand corrected. Haste helps no one.

[Looker]

I was in a rush. I'm sorry.

EBWOP: Disregard the "offer

me

at this time". I stand corrected. Haste helps no one.

cydonia seems to be lurking around deadline. raskol seems to be happy pushing the power role lynch, but doesn't want to seem to eager, and sanjay is acting the way a townie should when someone does what i have done. we are not looking at a conventional lynch and so claiming when i did was not scummy. asking for a completely unecessary full claim is just terrible logic.

nice that you picked up on the ad hom. easy way to play it off. "well, he was just so stupid! anybody would have lynched him."

if i had to choose out of the three aforementioned i would place the odds of them being in drk's mafia at:

raskol 64%
cydonia 48%
sanjay 12%

and for the record, those numbers are meaningless as i just made them up.

That should be "offer me at this time", but that's irrelevant.

no. what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time? i am not concerned about "me". but whatever. if anyone can answer the question that would be nice.

That's funny, the numbers part.

I hadn't answered the question because I didn't deem myself smart enough; however, I'll throw my opinion in there anyway. I don't see the benefit of a full-claim right now. If you live past the night, maybe then we can have a full-claim, as it would be somewhat reckless to leave you alive, even if for WIFOM, but, until then, (in which case I'd believe you anyway depending on who we lynch today), I'd say don't claim.

Note to self: those percentages are all multiples of 4; very scummy

what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time?

I'm not unvoting without a full-claim and is voting you largely for refusing to full claim. If you're actually a town PR, it could potentially get two votes off you near deadline. If you're scum, it locks you into a specific role and makes it harder for you to lie about it later.

Apparently, DJ, you're the only one DRK thinks is scum at the moment because he's rather adamant about his vote.

@DRK: Is there anyone else you're remotely suspicious of? If so, could we try them instead of DJ? If not and you don't think it's worth the risk, then okay, we'll go from there.

And why are the numbers scummy again...?

[Looker]

you can kiss my ass.

Now, now, there's no need to be utterly hilarious

Going to read and post, some of us DO have a job you know.

Who are

you

tellin? They've got us workin' 10-hr shifts down here and we'll be workin' 12s before long. So much for sleep

---

Things I'd like before deadline if possible:
- A vote from Cydonia
- A vote from Raskol
- 3 butt-naked strippers to "tickle my fancy"

[Looker]

And why are the numbers scummy again...?

Something like this.

Nice. I luv cartoons.

unvote
vote Raskol

YES!!! Becoming

increasingly

more confident that one of DRK or DJ is Mafia! Now all I need are those votes from Raskol and KoC!!! This may turn out to be a fun game after all!

[Looker]

Q: Why does KoC's vote for DRK garner suspicions from me?
A: The only people who know who are town are the Mafia and I felt we were falling into a sort of fallacy in regards to the Confid/DRK debate, a "pick one or the other" fallacy, or at least this is my current opinion. (Which collaborates with my suspicions of Furry, Sanjay, and KoC).

I understand that I change votes alot and that sometimes I may appear rather esoteric, but I try to maintain a consistent strain of reason within my actions, even if the explanation of this reason jeopardizes said reason and thusly said reason cannot be reasoned. Comprende?

There are a number of reasons, all of which can and will be explained when said explanation can no longer jeopardize future intentions.

---

Could that be denoted as WIFOM?

[Looker]

That response didn't offend you, did it? Because that wasn't the intention at all. Reading back over it, it kind of sounds sort of rude

[Looker]

Votecount

Don_Johnson (4) - ZazieR; Shrinehme; DeathRowKitty; ConfidAnon
DeathRowKitty (2) - Don_Johnson; BigBear
Knight Of Cydonia (2) - Looker; Sanjay
ZazieR (1) - Archaebob
Raskol (1) - Furry
Archaebob (0)
Looker (0)
Shrinehme (0)
Furry (0)
ConfidAnon (0)
BigBear (0)
Sanjay (0)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch or we could wait it out until

10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 11pm EST

, which is deadline

It's not over just yet. There's still hope.

[Looker]

Still waiting for DJ, if he posts without a claim you can just imagine my vote on him. This is likely my last post for the night, not sure if I get access at work tomorrow. Have to go recheck part of a topo section that I did today since there is a wierd looking jog in the sewer line and do some prelim stuff on an arroyo starting to threaten a line, but I might actually get some access before I get off work.

Worst case scenario I should get back two hours to deadline. So will move as needed then

KoC bullet point case?

No, thank you, I just ate.

Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.

Here's why I'm voting for KoC:

*No scumhunting so not a very costly lynch.
*Vote for DRK was very lazy and didn't seem that well thought out.
*Unexplained unvote of DRK is suspicious.

The initial vote was based on just those two bullets, so as you can imagine I'm not super enthusiastic about the vote.

Thing is I'm not super moved by your case against Raskol or Raskol's case against don_johnson or ZazieR. Ugh.

I'm not going to be online Tuesday night so I got to decide where to put my vote pretty soon. KoC is probably the wrong choice because that wouldn't really be as interesting as other lynches.

Sure, bussing a Mafia partner, that's plenty interesting!

[Looker]

one more vote puts me out of reach.

i'm a cop. way to go geniuses.

It was evident you were going to die either way, or at least it was to me; however, I can somewhat understand the perceived need for disdain.

Why were you reluctant to full-claim, don_johnson?

Which is why I kept my opinion to myself, or tried anyway. My suggestion makes absolutely no sense because I insisted he wait out tonight and claim tomorrow. But o well, either he or DRK is Mafia anyway.

Also, who told Looker about busing?

Are you saying this because I'm wrong or are you saying this because I'm right, because I'm hoping you're saying this because I'm right.

Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.

I do land surveying for the county sewer department, have to keep mapping out the areas for new lines.

Im not countering the claim. Want to sleep on it. Breadcrumbs though?

O, so you're like a grown-up doing important stuff, huh? Niiiice. I can't wait til I turn 16, I'm going to become a super model.

And I doubt he can sleep on it because he says he's not going to be around tomorrow or something like that. He's going to disappear V/LA-style like ZazieR. Either way, I doubt you'll find any breadcrumbs. It just seems to have popped up out of the blue due to the votes and the deadline and all.

[Looker]

BAH! (Go town)
Sometimes the best method of rationalization is simply to not rationalize at all. (That

sounds

smart, doesn't it)

[Looker]

unvote

Be back in a bit but still waiting for the same things (Raskol, KoC)

[Looker]

vote DeathRowKitty

Looker is utterly confused right now.

[Looker]

u weren't voting

[Looker]

Bad things happened tonight, so this is kinda jisted.

Current suspicions: Sanjay & Don_Johnson as Mafia

Therefore,

unvote
vote Don_Johnson

Sorry for the lack of words

[Looker]

Sorry guys, I woke up too late. Last night sucked. DJ, don't worry, either way you flip, your wagon and the consequent tells will be perused along with any interactions you've had thus far. The majority of us like this game and believe that thinking is fun so we'll find the real Mafia.

However, if you ARE the real Mafia, then well-played, you dragged the day out at least and didn't get lynched right off-bat. I'm guessing the only thing we're waiting on is Kreriov so I'll bid you all adieu until Day 2 starts. Au revoir (especially if I get NK'd tonight, in which case, whom would you suspect?)

[Looker]

Awww, come on, guys, that wasn't a rhetorical question...

[Looker]

Yay, I'm still alive! Means I can't be that much of a threat!

vote Sanjay

[Looker]

Something tells me that KoC and Furry are going to be the ones to turn up Mafia in the end...o well. Zaz, Archaebob, Shrine, we need your help.

Could it be Cydonia and Furry? BigBear & DRK? Or the not so suspicious Sanjay & Raskol? Hmm...I don't know, folks, I don't know. Stickin' wit Sanjay on this one.

[Looker]

O wait! What about Furry and Raskol as scum...?!

Okay, whatever, time to go to bed. G'nite.

[Looker]

Mafia of this game

Don_Johnson
Sanjay
Cydonia - Furry - Raskol

I'm just sayin'

O, and currently listening to one of my favorite songs (Ambling Alps), so I just wanted all of you to have a great day and live life to the fullest. You only have one. I'm just sayin

[Looker]

Cool. Quick question, though, whenever you get the chance. Which would you be more willing to lynch? KoC or Furry?

[Looker]

Hmmm, interesting development; let's see what Zaz, Shrine, and Archaebob have to say about this!

[n cum on, ugota dig da new avi]

[Looker]

It's not a chainsaw exactly.

It's just that the comment seemed indicative to me of an attitude that didn't become a townie who just had someone lead a bandwagon onto him away from a known gang banger.

Are you picking up what I am dropping down, Furry?

It's what I'm "laying" down, jeez...! And they're supposed to be crumbs, not entire loaves of bread, jeez...!

[Looker]

Feels like we got a 1/3 chance of hitting Sanjay's remaining partner here...I don't know...

Can't we just go with a Sanjay wagon instead? PLEEEEEZ?

[Looker]

Archaebob and Shrinehme/HavingFitz could be heard from as well.

[Looker]

So I think you should have listened to me
And I think it's too late now.
Not only have the Mafia won, but
Just take a look at how.
Another game to scum, it seems
You know, the same routine

It's kind of sad when I think of it; how
Sadistic this world can be

Sanjay shoots lasers out his ass
Come over and he'll show you how
U'll, understand I hope, though, when I tell you this
Mafia runs this town now.

[Looker]

I don't think Zazie's coming back...

[Looker]

Wish we had more from Zazie and Fitz, but o well.

Sanjay, which one of Eleven and Cydonia is your partner? I'm trying to figure out whether you're performing a bussing tactic or a chainsaw maneuver here...

And didn't you like my poem?

[Looker]

However, Sanjay, you can disregard the above post if Furry is your partner. I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that.

[Looker]

I don’t think I’ll ever finish reading or referring back in this game so I will just jump in (after staring at the water for the last week).

The only two things I can be sure of at this moment are that don_johnson is scum and ConfidAnon is town. I know...impressive analysis.
Looking over their ISO...and in the interest of getting involved...I get a town read from DRK and am happy to steer clear of him at the moment (subject to change of course). dj was all over DRK on D1 and while he (dj) could have just been bussing his arse off...I am inclined to think not. I also got a gut feel during dj’s ISO that Bigbear was scum.
I see the DRK CA jester debate as town on town. I doubt DRK would debate so long on CA...then go for a NK on CA. Other people I’m looking at are Furry and zazie. I remain suspicious of everyone. I’m holding off on my vote for now consider it pointing towards BB.

There's no need to hold off your vote, we're far from reaching a lynch; however, having something of substance from you, i.e. a vote, would do great benefit to the town.

And, @Sanjay, thanks for entertaining my petty demand for attention lol, I should have left out "though" though. And if you've changed your mind on Eleven, does that mean you've also changed your mind in regards to Furry and/or KoC?

[Looker]

Neither KoC or Eleven were on DJ's bandwagon yesterday? (Of course, neither were Furry or Sanjay)

---

So, guys, who do we want to lynch?

[Looker]

Sorry if I seem persistent and pointless, but I came to this conclusion about six or seven pages ago.

I still suspect Sanjay as Don_Johnson's partner; however, I suspect one of KoC, Furry, or Eleven to be the remaining member of the Mafia. Just throwing it out there, feel free to shoot it down.

[FLashback: "That's...actually a good idea..." -ConfidAnon]

[Looker]

The thing is, Looker, you're probably not going to get support to your wagon the way you are playing right now. People with a mafia win condition have been mafia all game. Looking at the Don_Johnson lynch is definitely a great start, but if you want to really push the lynch, you have to look at the rest of the game too.

See if you can find stuff that confirms your suspicions. Make sure you don't see stuff that diminishes your suspicions. Present that to the town. Or you could just demand people get on your wagon and hope for the best. Either way, you'll be driving a bandwagon in no time. Choo chooo!

Are you suspicious of KoC, Furry and Eleven based on the fact that Furry was late to the DJ lynch and KoC and Eleven weren't on it? If so, why aren't you suspicious of BigBear and archaebob?

People tend to appreciate things more when they have to ask for it, so I didn't just want to throw a case out there and have it looked over. Much more satisfying to ramble on until someone asks me to get to the point.

- As far as I know, neither you, Raskol, KoC, or Furry were on the DJ wagon at the time of the lynch.
- I believe your vote on BigBear was a distraction gambit
- I'd be fine assessing the bandwagons of either lynch (KoC or Eleven), to see which implications may arise
*Let it be known that I'm not scolding or criticizing play, but that I'm just showing you the things which brought me to my conclusion, even if it is a rather limited perspective.
- Archaebob and Shrine are fine, implications can be drawn from their votes and bussing maneuvers get you brownie points in my book. The only thing I wish we had at the moment but am not actually rushing the players to procure are votes from Semioldguy, our newest replacement (thank you), and havingfitz, our second newest replacement (thank you, as well).

Effective immediately,

semioldguy

replaces ZazieR

Please refer to the above "thank you".

would be nice is EVERYONE gave opinions on this in their next post. There are a few people who are walking quite gingerly around this topic

Maybe I was not specific enough on this. Some people are just kind of jabbering on about stuff and avoiding the Raskol push I made here. Forcing stances is a great scumhunting tool, people need to take a stance on this.

@looker - Im not too keen on a Sanjay lynch as I dont see it (he says, subtely asking for a case). If Sanjay was unlynchable, who would be your next pick?

I'm fine, actually. I understand the game cannot be won in one day and am preparing myself for the future, whether I live to see it or not. As I stated beforehand, I'm good with a Raskol(/Eleven) lynch as long as we consider the wagon and interactions in lieu of the flip. In layman's terms: I'm down.

Some people are just kind of jabbering on about stuff and avoiding the Raskol push I made here.

By using the word "jabbering," were you saying that there were players talking about nothing of importance and if so, which players specifically?

Looker, arch, fits... dunno where they stand on the wagon im pushing, dont like it either.

Also jabber because Mr. T is awesome, been watching some old A-Team

An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an opposing force. (I.e. my mouth)

[please no negative connotations!]

@EKT
How much of the game have you read?

I read from beginning to end before my first post.

Because you're awesome.

[Looker]

O, dude, that's fine. That's completely understandable. Just drop a vote on Sanjay while you do that and we'll make sure no one bothers you.

[Looker]

Stopping by to say Happy Thanksgivings and to encourage everyone to place a vote so as to provide a catalyst for some general scumhunting.

[Looker]

Yes, yes...let's get those votes in...

Semi..?

[Looker]

lmao

MOD: It's

semi

oldguy, not some...

[Looker]

I thought I did. I can't see any reason to move my vote.

[Looker]

Lol. Well then I guess it's either you or Cydonia, huh? Seeing as moving my vote to Furry would be just as "inefficient" as keeping it where it is. Well, if this has to be the case, I'll

unvote sanjay

and

vote eleven knives in a throat

[Looker]

What were your earlier suspicions based on?

Oh my God. Posts. I feel as if we're piggybacking here with this entire thing. Maybe I'm playing wrong but not once have I asked somebody why they were doing whatever they were doing. I, like the rest of the eleven or so other players, say who I'm good with lynching and then we debate over who we should lynch. I didn't know I'd signed up for such a psychoanalysis. Sanjay because he avoided DJ's wagon and is currently avoiding any cases on Cydonia, Furry, and Raskol and is reverting to voting BigBear, who has only one vote, which puts Sanjay in the same error as you claim I was.

Not to cast suspicion on Sanjay, just wanting to point out that your system is flawed. State your lynch choices to the board, i.e. the playerlist, and then let's go from there. I believe

that's

why this game is dragging along and

that's

why we've had so many replacements.[/end mini-rant]

why EKT and not KoC?

Because I can't pick Sanjay or Furry. You're limiting my choices, which, to me, seems a little anti-town. So much so that I'm going to

UNVOTE

and

VOTE SANJAY

as long as you're allowing him to vote BigBear.

And, @ Furry: We may have to go to deadline, I don't know why I thought that was such a bad thing.

vote deadline

[Looker]

And is Archaebob still alive? Wasn't EtherealCookie at one point the scummiest person in the universe?

[Looker]

Aw crap, when did this happen? Well, u kno what, I'mma keep my vote on Sanjay anyway. To Hell with it all. The worst I can do is be wrong and I doubt i'm that, so what's it gunna be?

You so-you so-you so anti

don't nun matta

[Looker]

Lol, wait! It almost makes

sense

...!

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Looker]

And now I want to vote Eleven again. ::sigh:: Curse this unnatural urge to distinguish myself from the rest of you sheeple!!!

[Looker]

Sanjay, how would u feel offering Furry up as the day's sacrifice? (Furry lynch)

[Looker]

I don't think there

is

a rest of the game, Furry...

[Looker]

No, I mean ::looks around:: [whispers] there's no one else

here

[/whispers]

[Looker]

Solution: Give Daykill abilities to Looker.

[Looker]

Starting....NOW!

Daykill: Sanjay
Daykill: Furry
Daykill: KoC
Daykill: Eleven
Daykill: DRK
Daykill: BigBear
Daykill: Fitz
Daykill: Bob
Daykill: Semi

Endgame: Looker

Whoo, that was fun. Aren't you glad you saw things my way?
[My suspicion list, FYI and FFR]

[Looker]

:cries: But I dont

care

about KoC or EKT! I want SANJAY!!! Look at the

top

of the list, the

toooopppp

.

[Looker]

You're right, I'm being entirely too unrealistic.

unvote


V/LA til I come to my senses

What was I

thinking

, voting Sanjay like that...? Have I gone

mad

...?

[Looker]

vote sanjay

[Looker]

It's funny. I figure "If I just keep posting, I'll eventually get good at this game." :shakes head: Has yet to happen.

[Looker]

I took it as him being suspicious of your reason for supporting.

[Looker]

Maybe he was just confused, Sanjay.

Also, has there ever been a time where town consecutively lynched scum with no mislynches the entire game? Is that possible?

[Looker]

@DeathRowKitty
I had a scum read on him fairly early on. He was the first player I suspected in my read. I had my scum read on him before I even got to the end of day interactions. I didn't get a town read on him. I honestly don't see the towniness in him that others have said to have seen.

@Looker
The last large theme game you were in with me was a perfect game for town, not a single mislynch. We lynched scum every day in Percy's Stars Aligned.

I suck at convincing people, but I strongly believe Sanjay is DJ's partner. Whether or not one of you (SOG or BB) is Sanjay's partner as well, I don't know. But I'm fairly positive Sanjay is DJ's partner.

And regarding that theme game: That was only possible because they reeled in the big wigs. That'd never happen with newbs like myself. I'm still trying to swallow the "No Self-Hammering!" rule.

[Looker]

O, and can psychology be used as evidence to support a case? So far, I'm currently doubting it not only due to WIFOM but to general inaccuracy.

[Looker]

Kreriov: Sanjay has two votes, sir

[Looker]

vote Knight of Cydonia

wait, u guys hold up. we need to figure out immediately what we're doing about ZazieR. my guess is that he's pretty much about to replace out (@ ZazieR - which is really shitty, btw, given how difficult this game has already been for Kreriov). if he doesn't either replace out or start posting soon, i strongly recommend an instant bandwagon on his ass.

- Dismissed as playstyle though I have no meta or references to corroborate.

Yes, I'm here Looker.

I don't think you guys understand how absolutely insane this thread is, from a replacement's perspective.

My vote is on Knight of Cydonia because I don't buy his eleven knives vote.

- I think Sanjay is the single point of failure. I'm suspicious of KoC, but through Sanjay. Similar to circuitry and electrical engineering...crap.
- What exactly don't you buy about his vote and what would it take for you to join the Sanjay wagon?

i'm winning the lynch race with 36 hours until deadline. i am just trying to help.

looker: why is it an either/or between me and drk? what about the recent events has you thinking this way? why are you voting KoC?

furry: waiting on your bullshit "i'm waiting to see one thing" bullshit. spew anytime.


oh shit. didn't see shrine is getting replaced. my bad.

mod: requesting deadline extension.

I believe your partners are unwilling to bus you and I believe KoC is one of your partners.

- As I stated, I'm already suspicious of KoC.

Bad things happened tonight, so this is kinda jisted.

Current suspicions: Sanjay & Don_Johnson as Mafia

Therefore,

unvote
vote Don_Johnson

Sorry for the lack of words

- However, I'm more suspicious of Sanjay. We need a Sanjay lynch, unless, of course, we can somehow confirm Sanjay as town. Yeah, we need a Sanjay lynch. That'd make things better.

[Looker]

So are we deadlocked then? Cuz I'm good with my Sanjay vote. Nothing against you, of course, Sanjay, you're cool and everything (you helped me out in the beginning - thanks), but your clever personality does nothing to alleviate suspicions.

Suspicions
DJ, Sanjay, and quite possibly KoC. It wouldn't be the first time I've suspected him so if Sanjay isn't applicable, I'd rather go KoC than EKT. But of course, I'm going to ride this one out and stick with Sanjay. He's my fav

[Looker]

Aw shucks, you sure know how to make a guy feel special.

Remind me again why you don't like BigBear as a lynch candidate? Is it just because I suspect him?

You asked about a Furry lynch earlier today. Is that something you are interested in?

- BigBear is just as likely to be scum as DeathRowKitty. I'm not tilting the tables in DRK's favor because there's a wagon on BB. If there were an equal wagon on both, maybe, but that's not the case. BigBear strikes me as a parking spot as of late.

- I wouldn't say interested in per se; however, if no one is willing to lynch you, then lynching Furry would give us a 1/3 shot of hitting your partner, whom I believe to be of Furry, Eleven, and KoC. I'm currently leaning KoC, though, so I'd rather lynch him (as of now) over Furry; however, I'm not moving my vote from you to do either so all of this is speculation. I just like having a backup plan in case you pull a magic trick or something, y'know?

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch. I think that this game is extremely convoluted right now, and we're going to be better off in the long run cleaning up the town than trying to hit scummy players who are active posters. I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

- Cleaning up the town VS Hitting Scummy Players: This gives me the impression that you'd rather lynch useless town over active scum.

- KoC Town VS Sanjay Town: The way I feel about this situation is that, though one may be more useful than the other, they're still both town so I'd refrain from lynching either one; however, this is under the assumption that they are town, under which I am currently not. Sanjay is Mafia and KoC has a shot at being his partner.

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch.

??

I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

Thats a little repetitive.

This is also a really wierd thing weve got going right now. If we arent lynching EKT... im not even entirely sure where my thought process leads next. I dont like a Sanjay lynch almost purely off my read of him D1, KoC is getting voted on by EKT, we will see on that one. Gut screams arch actually for my next pick, but I would vote BB over Sanjay and KoC.

I just really prefer a EKT lynch, nothing that happened near the end of yesterday points to him being town.

- If you could save one, Sanjay or KoC, which would it be? That's what I'm hoping it'll boil down to; however, as I've previously stated, BB is a parking spot and those votes on him will most likely be used to hammer whoever is in the lead. For example, Sanjay pulls his vote off BB at the last minute to hammer KoC or EKT to save himself. This is all speculation, of course.

[Looker]

@Archaebob

Semioldguy and havingfitz, do you get any reads from either of them? I notice that you're posting and they're not. Why is that?

[Looker]

Care to explain why I "have a shot" at being Sanjay's partner?

So what, your plan is to lynch these three, then hope you're right? Niiice.

- I don't think you're reading, KoC.
- I don't think you're reading, KoC, which is understandable, seeing as you've just celebrated a birthday. It wouldn't make much sense for me to lynch any of you three if Sanjay is not Mafia, which is why my vote remains on him. Obviously, you're not done celebrating you're birthday so I'd encourage you to have fun. You don't have to half-ass it, just go V/LA.

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

- Just making sure that I wasn't losing my mind and was the only one who'd noticed.

@ KoC -

And what have YOU done today, exactly?

You guys, I really think the best thing this town can do for itself is lynch KoC right now. I'm having a lot of difficulty summing up the motivation to really comb through this thread, and I don't think the game will survive anymore replacements. The best thing this town can do for itself right now is stfu and lynch. If we narrow this game down to a smaller number of legitimately active players, it'll making catching up easier for us replacements, and give the town the focus it needs to actually scum-hunt in a meaningful way.

Pile aboard.

- Conveniencing the replacements could also wind us up in LyLo quicker than anticipated.
> You want to keep Sanjay around because he posts coherently.
< I want to lynch Sanjay because I believe he's DJ's partner.
> You want to lynch KoC because he's annoying and actively lurking
< I'd rather lynch KoC if Sanjay flips scum, which would leave me with a pool of three possible scum remaining (KoC, Furry, Eleven)

- Your arguments seem to be based on personality conflicts.
- My arguments appear to be based on the probability of lynching scum.
Am I correct in this assumption? (This is where you tell me I'm wrong and lay out your case [or re-iterate it])

[Looker]

@ Archaebob - I have to say, that was beautiful; however, it all boils down to who you find the scummiest. You find KoC the scummiest, I find Sanjay the scummiest. Whether we can come to a compromise is the next obstacle we have to face. I just don't want to have been swayed by your words and lose sight of my initial intentions, which had nothing to do with environments.

@BigBear, DRK, Semioldguy, & havingfitz: Content with the current situation or no?

[Looker]

O, and Archaebob, why did you put DUE IT instead of DO IT. Are you implying a KoC wagon/lynch is overdue...?

[Looker]

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

Lol.

I honestly don't know what to do with you Sanjay. I can't automatically push for your lynch in every game I play with you.

That being said, you actually have not at all activated my gut in this game. I'll have to take a look at the actual evidence against you at some point, but right now I'm more interested in my pretty theory about environments.

@ Looker -

If we can lynch KoC today, I swear that I will look super closely at the evidence against Sanjay tomorrow. He's established himself as an active poster, so if he's scum, he's not going anywhere. Let's lynch the useless lurker, let somebody be NK'd, and then really get down to business tomorrow with a manageable, effective town.

- I don't want to be NK'd, Archaebob.

@ Sanjay
- What'd holding you up on BigBear? Why don't you vote KoC like everyone else?

@ All
- If KoC

is

scum, who do you propose his partner to be?

@ Sanjay
- Are you not voting Eleven right now because you don't want anymore votes on KoC to compensate for your

insurgency

?

@ All
- I would ask loudly "WHY CAN WE NOT LYNCH SANJAY?"; however, I prefer the days where the town is divided and the lynch wagon is minute, this makes it all the more easier to pick out the subversives.

Code: Select all

Testicles. That is all...

[Looker]

Alright, so we're on the same page! Sanjay is scum! But, of course, the suspicions of Eleven, Cydonia, and Furry individually can't hold much wait; therefore, I propose KoC and Furry get some opinions out here so we can get to rollin'!

[Looker]

EBWOP:

[Looker]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

Someone

has yet to read my location...

Alright, so we're on the same page! Sanjay is scum! But, of course, the suspicions of Eleven, Cydonia, and Furry individually can't hold much wait; therefore, I propose KoC and Furry get some opinions out here so we can get to rollin'!

What opinions do you really want here?

Im just in a wierd spot. My top suspect apparently no one agrees with me on, and my second pick may actually stand even less of a chance as him to get lynched. Im basically left with third/fourth picks as the only viable wagons if I move, so I really dont want to at this point.

With impending deadline though its looking like its going to be a necessity to move however, which really sucks. I actually (if forced to go between KoC, Sanjay BB) would go with BB at this point, but THAT wagon (while not only being a third pick) appears to be stalling out as well.

Maybe this does mean the best thing I can do though is move to BB, have KoC come with me in self-preservation, and hope remaining scum contain my third suspect since its the only one who might be lynchable today.

I dont like being confined like this.

@KoC - It really isnt hard to mask anger/bitterness, im a great example of pulling that off. Just respond to the few points, make a bit of a case and maybe we can get out of what now is a slow and inevitable switch to that wagon.

@all - There are quite a few of you who are stalling a change that I see coming from you. This is not helpful with a deadline friday. We need the information now.

unvote
vote BB

I can explain this more later

Could you have explicated this in a less convoluted manner? For example:

1. BB - No one wants to lynch him, though
2. blah blah - Reason for whatever you're saying

All I really got out of that post was "vote BB". You didn't say whether or not you thought any of them were scum, you just voted BB.

O, and

We need the information now.

but

I can explain this more later

?

You knew

somebody

was gonna have something to say about that.

I'm not trying to get you guys to say "Sanjay is scum", I'm just trying to at least get your opinion on not only what I'm saying but the probability of him being scum. Do you think it's likely, do you think it's not? It's not a trap or a trick, I promise. It's just a simple question.

Geez, you guys are too smart for your own good

[Looker]

Welp, that answers my question. Hope you enjoy your lunch.

100% accountability, folks. 100% accountability.

[Looker]

Looker, Big Bear's absence from the thread is totally understandable given the circumstances, but until he comes back I see no reason to move my vote.

What don't you like about the BigBear wagon, Looker?

---

If KoC is scum, I'm not really sure who the third scumbuddy is. I really like this BigBear vote and everything, but as much as I didn't like the wagon, I'd be kind of surprised if

everyone

on the DRK wagon besides ConfidAnon ended up being scum. archaebob and Knives are doing some pretty good distancing right now, so I'd be inclined to think not them. I'd have to dig a little low in my scumlist to find someone.

---

KoC, what is with the attitude?

O, I have no problem with the BigBear wagon, every person has a right to their opinion, I just wanted to verify that everyone had one so whomever gets lynched, we can have the reasons why. That's all. I am in no way criticizing your intentions. You play however you like.

RE: KoC - There's nothing wrong with that. I do that, too, when I want attention.

O, but, btw, you

are

the mafia scum...just in case you forgot...

[Looker]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

You'd rather wait around and claim instead of defending yourself? Make sure you have a good fakeclaim ready. Also, what EKT said.

@Looker
Let's say for sake of argument that SJ were to die and flip town. Who would you then suspect as scum?

Hey, guy, don't ruin the surprise!

[Looker]

I think if you don't have any strong scum reads lynching to get a good environment is a good play. But passing up a strong scum read because they are a good active poster, while it might have helped you in Newbie 846, is not always the right play.

As for KoC, my day 1 reread made me less inclined to push a lynch his way, and while we disagree on our reads on DRK, I can see where he is coming from with it. General town opinion (that DRK is likely scum, that Knives is obv scum and should be lynched) has gone against KoC and that is the best reasoning I can come up with for his anti-town reaction. WIFOM thought it may be, what scum responds to accusations of being unhelpful with "Oh yeah, well screw you town, I'm going home"? Frustrated town makes more sense to me.

If KoC continues to be unhelpful AND I had to jump on a KoC wagon to save myself, I might vote KoC, but there is a handful of players I'd rather see lynched (BigBear, ElevenKnives, you, Looker) and that really is a pretty big handful.

I see I've been added to your hitlist, Sanjay. I'm honored.

When would you say you started to suspect me, semioldguy?

Early on in my read I was thinking to myself what exactly you had contributed. When I looked back, it looked to me as though you had contributed very little despite your large amount of posting. You don;t really bring much original content and most of what you do is ask questions with little to no follow-up as to reads on the answers (to be fair, a good portion of your questions didn't get answers due to flakiness this game so far). I see this behavior as scummy because it gives off the appearance of being helpful (asking questions) without really being all that helpful yourself.

Vote: Sanjay

ebwop:

@ Looker: they

haven't

done enough for me to have reads on them.

Without going into unnecessary detail, what do you read on either of our predecessors? A single line or two summary would be more than enough.

Hey, new best friend!

EBWOP:
Please just use post numbers. Don't quote it, I can look it up and will quote it if I need my response to make sense.

Does it make it easier for you when people don't quote stuff, because I notice that I quote alot.

semioldguy, I was kind of assuming you were holding off your vote previously because you wanted to look at other people first. Was that assumption incorrect?

Translation: "I thought you were going to vote someone else." ("But, since you're not, I'm gonna do my best to make sure you don't live to see tomorrow, bub.")

[Looker]

Current Suspicions

DJ

, Sanjay, & Cydonia/Eleven*

*I'm currently leaning Cydonia with this one as opposed to KoC.

[Looker]

EBWOP: as opposed to Eleven

[Looker]

Unreadable? I swear, I'll never understand what that even means. You'd be comfortable lynching me simply because you don't know what I'm thinking? Take a look inside my brain, Sanjay, I'll tell you what I'm thinking:

Sanjay's awesome...Sanjay's awesome...Sanjay's scum, but Sanjay's awesome...

There. Satisfied? Now what kind of read (other than delusional) do you have on me?

[Looker]

No, you're fine, I'm enjoying this. I have to get back to work anyway. Ciao.

[Looker]

Here is my read on you, Looker:

In the other games I've seen you in, you've played so zany and wacky and so clearly didn't give a damn that you were pretty obviously town. Newbie 837 (in which you were hilarious) is a good example. I don't really see that this game. This is not a scumtell by any means. I can definitely see how, as town, you could be playing the way you do. You do seem to get mislynched a lot.

So in that regard, I have a null read on you.

Day one, you were basically following a formula that nobody but you understood, that pretty much allowed you to vote for anyone you wanted without understandable justification. Is that a scumtell? For you, no, because I find your play believable as town. However, it leaves me uneasy, because if you are scum, it is very good for you. Day two, similarly, I feel like you have been ignoring a pretty good case on BigBear based on your formula, and if you are scum, that's pretty nice.

Playing in a way that would benefit scum is not actually a scumtell if I can see it coming from you as town. Which I can. But it still makes me pretty uneasy. So in that regard, I have a null read on you too.

There is one thing that is a little scummy but it has more to do with something DJ posted than something you posted. When you voted for him, he asked you to unvote with little or no explanation. You specifically. That's a little strange, just because you were acting confident in his scumminess, so why even ask?

That said, it is pretty clear that DJ was intent on going down pretty hard on the town and just WIFOM everything to hell since he was getting lynched anyway. So I'm really not very inclined to act on this. Again, null tell.

That's a little bit on why I'm having a tough time reading you.

This is actually

quite

impressive, regardless of alignment, so much so that I'm contemplating keeping you around despite the fact that you are so obviously a murderous mafioso. What's a girl to do...?

However, like I've said before and will now say again, hopefully for the final time.

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

You'd rather wait around and claim instead of defending yourself? Make sure you have a good fakeclaim ready. Also, what EKT said.

@Looker
Let's say for sake of argument that SJ were to die and flip town. Who would you then suspect as scum?

Hey, guy, don't ruin the surprise!

This means YOU!

- If we can get this thing done with the least amount of mislynches possible, which at the most I'm thinking is 1, then we're doing pretty good for ourselves. And I hope you understand that I cannot simply take your word for it in regards to your alignment.
- On a totally different note, I also hope you know that it's because of cool people like you that I try to change up my playstyle so as not to be a total asshole and weigh down the town. I'm

trying

to work something out here, you just have to give me a little more time. I have faith in you so have a little faith in me,

Scummy McScumbag

.

[Looker]

O and Newbie 837...well, that was a learning experience...

[Looker]

@DRK: Do your town reads of BB corroborate with my scum reads of Sanjay?
(Note: I've probably asked this a million times, it's just that I don't know what else to say, we're pretty much gridlocked here for the rest of the week...)

[Looker]

It was a town read of BB's defense, not necessarily of BB. I'll probably re-read him to see what I think now.

As for Sanjay, my opinions of him are similar to Furry's. I have a fairly strong gut town read on him. Sorry.

Ha, there's no reason to apologize. This whole thing that we're doing here is the scumhunting process, believe it or not.

[Looker]

Do you find the little spat between Sanjay and I as Scum-Scum?

I think it could be.

That would be one hell of a Bus between us.



Looker, what do you make of this quote?

unvote, vote: bigbear

bb it is. looker, please switch.

Flow of events

Bad things happened tonight, so this is kinda jisted.

Current suspicions: Sanjay & Don_Johnson as Mafia

Therefore,

unvote
vote Don_Johnson

Sorry for the lack of words

@Looker
You really confuse me sometimes...

Vote Count

don_johnson (4)

- ZazieR Shrinehme Looker ConfidAnon
Raskol (1) - Furry
DeathRowKitty (2) - don_johnson BigBear
ZazieR (1) - archaebob
BigBear (2) - Sanjay DeathRowKitty

Not voting: Knight of Cydonia Raskol

With 12 alive is takes 7 to lynch.

Looking for a replacement for Shrinehme and Raskol

DEADLINE SET: 10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 11pm EST

unvote, vote: bigbear

bb it is. looker, please switch.

Possible reasons for DJ singling me out
- I am considered the weakest and most logically inept as well as easily persuaded player in a variety of the games I'm in (I was the stupid zany chick)
- I was the last person to vote DJ, having voted him a few posts before after DRK had switched his vote from DJ
- DJ was striving for self-preservation and grasping for whomever was present
*** If there are any scummy implications that may arise from that post, just let me know so that I can share my opinion if not refute them entirely.


And you're never wrong if it's your job to be right

[Looker]

Well I've played games with DJ before and his comments regarding me haven't really changed in many of them. To be honest, there's not a really high opinion of my performance site-wide so I can see how he could believe simply telling me to switch my vote would cause me to do so. It's more of an insult to me than anything else, or at least that's how I took/take it. Not that I'm offended.

[Looker]

[input witty analysis with sadomasochistic undertone]

[Looker]

Since I have nothing better to do, here's a random votecount...

Sanjay (3) - Looker, BigBear, Semioldguy
Cydonia (3) - Deathrow, Archaebob, Eleven
Eleven (2) - Furry, Knight of Stankonia
Bear (1) - Fitz
Bob (0) - N/A
Deathrow (0) - N/A
Furry (0) - N/A
Semioldguy (0) - N/A
Fitz (0) - N/A
Looker (0) - N/A

Not voting due to confusion, cowardice, paranoia, excessive diarrhea, etc...

My main man Sanjay

[Looker]

Well, that cowardice one is a bit much, but the others generally do apply...

[Looker]

Someone just lost their bus cherry. Didn't hurt as much as you thought it would, now did it?

Let's rack'em up.

[Looker]

And someone's not ashamed to try a little daytalk out in the open. This is absolutely beautiful.

You know what, you guys make life worth living.

[Looker]

Good one, Looker.

But it's true besides. Deadline is on Friday. No reason to make a "well I got to save myself" vote now.

Thoughts, KoC?

I have a feeling you're not all that concerned, especially with Furry's vote on BigBear being merely temporary. Fitz I doubt will change his vote to KoC at the last minute; however, KoC's recent vote-switch to you gives you plenty of time to compensate, not that I'm hesitatant to believe you haven't already.

All in all, I believe we'll see what happens.

[Looker]

Concerned about me being lynched today? Not really. It certainly could happen, but I'm not that worried about it.

Concerned that KoC is being very anti-town? Definitely.

Concerned I might have been wrong about my town read on KoC? Possibly.

The expected town response to "I see why you have been anti-town but could you please stop it" is to stop it. I don't know what's up with that. And his vote was kind of self-preservation-y. So I don't know.

But if I have to vote KoC to save myself I'm certainly going to feel a lot better about it.

- So you're KoC's foil now? Your easy-going attitude to his "fuck all y'all" attitude? That's really nice, Sanjay. Impressive.
- I don't believe you; I can't. If the guy tied for the lynch with me all of a sudden started acting anti-town, I doubt I'd be concerned. I'd be happy and would opportunistically "appear" concerned.
- Why do we always round things off in threes? (As in your "concerned" bullets) Is that a literary thing? Like poetry stanzas or something? Just a thought. Either way, I think your third one's sweet. "But he seemed like such a good boy..!"

And, regarding voting KoC for self-preservation: I'm pretty sure that was going to happen anyway, Sanjay.

I live near San Fransisco, it snowed here for the first time in basically forever, so ive been busy enjoying myself.

Going to be pissed if this turns into KoC/Sanjay so will get that stuff up on BB in an attempt to recitify the situation that is brewing. If this doesnt get fixed im going to have to do some serious research because niether of these wagons look appetizing to me.

- I'm going to be thrown for a loop if Eleven turns out to be your scum partner, Sanjay, because Furry and KoC seem to be openly competing for my suspicions.
- There's a pretty yellow butterfly outside my window. Maybe I should go outside and play with all the other kids for once...

Fact is, if you think BigBear is likely scum and you don't want to elaborate on this secret parroting and adding no content that I was doing, I don't really see your case.

You don't have to see the case, you see the vote, don't you?

[Looker]

Hey, Sanjay,
Are you hoping for a last-minute wagon on Semioldguy or are you just trying to get him to move his vote?

Are you hoping that, if you point out flaws in his speculations, that you'll somehow encourage other people to drop their votes on you?

Are you hoping that by pointing out SOG's speculation flaws that you'll encourage others to vote your opposition?

Hey, please feel free to answer all of these with a single "No" or, if you want, not to answer them at all. I understand you're under a lot of stress and scrutiny right now and the deadline

is

rather pressing.

[Looker]

I'd be playing in snow if I were you.

[Looker]

I think it would help the town if he backed up his arguments, especially if I end up being the lynch today.

I'm guessing you're not familiar with sting maneuvers, are you? Either way, what will come will come.

This applies to you, too, y'know.

Sorry guys, I woke up too late. Last night sucked. DJ, don't worry, either way you flip, your wagon and the consequent tells will be perused along with any interactions you've had thus far. The majority of us like this game and believe that thinking is fun so we'll find the real Mafia.

However, if you ARE the real Mafia, then well-played, you dragged the day out at least and didn't get lynched right off-bat. I'm guessing the only thing we're waiting on is Kreriov so I'll bid you all adieu until Day 2 starts. Au revoir (especially if I get NK'd tonight, in which case, whom would you suspect?)

Where DJ=Sanjay.

I'd be playing in snow if I were you.

Im a little old to be going crazy in snow, but my reading spot up on Mt. Diablo is really pretty right now (although really cold)

That sounds beautiful. I've always wanted to ascend a mountain, and I forgot you were one of those things, those

grown-up

things,

yuck

! I'm gonna be like Peter Pan and NEVER grow old!

[Looker]

As a matter of fact, I think my avatar kind of looks like a dark version of Peter Pan. Dark Pan!

[Looker]

Give it a rest, you're not going to die...during the day at least.

[Looker]

I'm guessing you're not familiar with sting maneuvers, are you? Either way, what will come will come.

This applies to you, too, y'know.

Is there something you'd like me to expand on, Looker?

No, you're fine. I was going to say that I'd wish you wouldn't expand so much, especially at the expense of jeopardizing future endeavors, but you're cool. You have a right to say what you want. I do, so why shouldn't you?

It's similar to placing a pressure vote on someone, but then telling them that it's a pressure vote. You ruin the sting.

[Looker]

@Looker
You've said you find a SJ-KoC scum team to be the most likely scum team. Do you only find KoC scummy because you find SJ scummy or do you find KoC scummy for other reasons?

Im a little old to be going crazy in snow

Im only in my early 20s

You're too young to not be going crazy in snow

Everyone needs to get posting like a mofo right now because it would be really solid if people actually commit to some real votes this time.

My vote is real. Also, more focused posting might be better than having everyone post like a mofo. For example, it would be nice if everyone could take a solid position on every wagon currently available and we debate from there rather than have everyone flood the thread commenting about everything.

- Um, to answer your question the best way possible: I find Sanjay suspicious, the most suspicious out of everyone.
- I find it likely that three players (Furry, KoC, Eleven) can be Sanjay's partner.
- KoC is currently the most suspicious out of the three; however, with Eleven's replacing out, I'll find his replacement fishy, too.
- I'm not moving my vote from Sanjay due to his being the centerpiece of my suspicions and speculations and the fact that I have an alternate scumlist in the case he flips town, a.k.a. Sting Surprise. Hopefully, I won't have to use this because I'm pretty bent on being right, but I won't let emotion and ego overcome town performance.

Also,
ALCON:

- The little yellow butterfly was eaten by the orange and blue lizard. Sorry.

[Looker]

Checking in. This is my only game now. Still happy with where my vote is though I will take a closer look at the other main candidates to see if my vote would be better served elsewhere.

This makes no sense, the current situation in which we are. If BigBear isn't going to be lynched, I think it would be a tad more effective to assess that which is directly in front of us, that being the wagons on Sanjay and KoC. I also think it would be more effective, havingfitz, if you would enlighten us with your opinion on Archaebob and Semioldguy in particular and whether or not you agree with their votes on KoC and Sanjay respectively.

I really wish we could wrap this day up because not much of substance has been said for the last few pages. I'd rather not waste our time. It just seems we're dragging things on for appearances and future reference.

[Looker]

<pardon the rant>

Keep'em comin'.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

I was

waiting

for self-preservation mode to kick in. Make sure you add a scumlist with your claim just in case you die anyway and pop up town. (I know, it sounds as if I'm doubting my suspicions but I'm not, just trying to cover all the bases)

and after reading the past posts....

vote: Sanjay

I find him very suspicious.

^^So no one's gonna tell me who this guy is, huh?

Swell.

If someone intends to hammer me, let me know. I'll claim.

It wouldn't matter either way, Sanjay; however, if it'd make you feel better, feel free to hammer yourself. If you do, I promise I'll give you a coupon to a facility of your choosing.

danakillsu, this is pathetic.

Why does everyone know this guy but me...?