Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Vote: Mindgamer

We're together two games in a row? Conspiracy!

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

So... prod GoroHonda and semioldguy?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

A lot of people didn't give silly reasons.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

1) I disagree with policy lynching. It basically boils down to a high-class OMGUS.

2) Based on my experience, lurking is townish, active lurking is usually scumish.

3) I'll try to post at least a few times per day.

Bio Hazard, what's up? Your first three posts are trying to build a case on my first two.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Currently voting Mindgamer for RVS: he was in my last game. Hence the conspiracy remark. I didn't realize another player from that game, Bio Hazard, had joined too, apparently that's why he voted me.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

MOD: Prod GoroHonda

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ RayFrost: We're not going to get into another RVS argument, are we?

Hm.. I'm bored.

Vote: Bio Hazard

for trying to build a case on me in RVS. Not the best evidence in the world, but sounds good for now.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I avoided voting Ray because last time I accused him of setting up a lynch during RVS, it got really ugly, I was forced to claim, and I ended up lynching him in lylo when he was town. So, I'm being a little more careful. Also, based on the other game, RayFrost isn't too serious in RVS. Bio Hazard though, seems a little more determined. Could be nothing, but hey.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Hey Ythan.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Okay, Ray, the whole "this RVS reasoning is terrible" is just annoying. Seriously, what do you expect to achieve? They're random.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Yeah, I think we're about out of RVS now. As I said, my current suspicions are on Bio Hazard, maybe RayFrost.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@Bio Hazard: I didn't OMGUS, I really think you are overreacting on a couple small possible tells early in the game. I knew my vote would probably be interpreted as OMGUS, but I wasn't really concerned. As I said, it's still to early to be taking every vote seriously.

@RayFrost...

Um...

Okay, this set-up doesn't have a jester, but otherwise I'd swear that's your role. You sincerely believe I am scum? Based on what? That I didn't have good reasoning for my RVS vote?

I don't want to draw conclusions too early, but my suspicions are on RayFrost and BH. Most of us are chatting, talking about past games, but these two are trying to get a bandwagon on me. Nothing OMGUS about what I'm doing since they clearly stand out from the others. They're trying to pressure me or they want a quicklynch. Either way, they're drawing most of my attention, and that's not a good thing.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Bio Hazard: It is scummy because it is distracting to me. The defence of 'scum wouldn't do that in RVS' is WIFOM. Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move for town, the exception being of course, if I am scum. Do you really think I'm scum based on this paltry evidence?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Mindgamer: The problem is not just that it's a few votes, the problem is that it's quite early for serious votes. I'm not saying that chatting is good or bad, but it's what everyone seems to be doing. The fact that BH and RF are not is suspicious.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Bio Hazard, exactly what are you expecting to achieve with your vote? You have to realize that by persisting in this manner, voting with no case, either you will get me or yourself lynched. It is distracting because you are drawing attention onto yourself. How is my reaction not looking good? You made a scummy vote, I pointed out that it was scummy. You are trying to build a case on my after your vote, based on my reactions. As I said, a crossfire between us will only result in masking the other scum. Either I react badly, which is distracting, and get lynched, causing yourself to be lynched D2 when I flip town, or I react well, and the same thing happens to you.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ RayFrost: So far, my play has been less serious than yours. I don't see what the number of posts has to do with it, I'm not lurking.

@ Ythan: Your reasoning for RayFrost is suspect, it's a bad idea to base votes for one game on a game that hasn't finished. You don't know what his role is. He made a remark about how he is good as scum, what does that matter? It doesn't look scummy to me.

@ Bio Hazard: Why did you vote for Mindgamer? How did he become more scummy than me?

@ farside22: The purpose of that quote was to show how BH's actions are illogical as town, but make sense as scum.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@evilsnail: I'm not even close to being lynched. Why exactly do you find me scummy?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Bio Hazard:

1. I don't know why Mindgamer asked that question, I was hoping to find out why he singled those two out. I don't think it was limiting discussion in any way.

2. An OMGUS in RVS? Gee, I must be scum. It wasn't RVS, it was a case of either voting you or voting RayFrost. I wanted to try and move out of RVS, and voting based on your weak reasoning seemed like a good start.

3. My posts do nothing of the sort, that statement was to illustrate that your motives were illogical if you were town.

4. I don't see the strawman.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Bio Hazard: That's not a strawman. A strawman is a misrepresentation of someone's arguments to provide an inadequate defence. Like how you said that it's illogical to scumhunt. Also, I didn't see RVS as over, my vote was not to be taken that seriously at first. I voted because you were the only lead I had. Interesting how your vote is acceptable but mine isn't.

And 'Nick', get out of here, moron. YOU ARE NOT IN THIS GAME!

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Sorry, can't pay much attention to this game right now with RL stuff. I'm keeping my vote because I feel BH's early vote on me was suspicious, it's almost as if he found reasons to vote me after the vote itself.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

OK, BTTB.

Bio Hazard: Something's off. He comes out swinging with his first post, and didn't let up. It could be playstyle, I suppose. When he was scum in our last game, he wasn't nearly as aggressive. So far, he's twisted my words in a strawman, and he seems to be reaching for a case that I just don't see.

chauchaudotcom: Looks smart town.

Deer: Not much to go on, but gut town read so far.

evilsnail: Scum read. He said I'm scummy, then voted Ythan without a case. Appears to be repeating other people's cases.

farside22: Gut town read, but I'm still not sure how I implied I knew BH's alignment.

ksun482/McGriddle: Says BH is his prime suspect, but doesn't elaborate much. Gut scum read, not sure why.

Mindgamer: Hm... Tricky. I have a gut town read, but his play is erratic. Honestly, I could go either way on him.

Ythan/NickF227: OK, read in ISO, Ythan is obvious scum. He's overly aggressive, makes posts of little content, and his 'reasoning' for voting RayFrost is very, very, bad. Nick is better, but still pressures for a lynch and overreacts when called upon.

ortolan: Null read. Needs to post more.

RayFrost: Leaning toward scum. At first it seem like the standard RF, but he seems to be acting out even more than usual. There's an understated nervousness to his posts that I don't like. And also, he strawmaned me.

semioldguy: Town read.

Vote: NickF227

With both players acting scummy, I see scum.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

Mostly that he has longer posts, hasn't been attacking RayFrost for no reason, it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

roflmao.

Me?

Nervous?

Do you know who you are talking about?

The thought of me being 'nervous' is so laughable that it's pathetic.

'acting out more than usual' is hardly a tell when you have not seen my scum play to determine if I act out more than usual. Your half-baked meta is pathetic.

And ythan being aggressive is part of his style as town or scum, as far as I've seen, so I disagree with that point.

I don't see how pressuring for a lynch is a bad thing.

I also notice a distinct lack of support for your town reads (contrast with your scum reads), care to put them into more detail?

Yeah, um, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. The whole splitting your statements

on separate lines

is really annoying.

And, by you're "Do you know who you are talking about?" comment, I guess you have the impression you are a really cool, together guy. But I'm seeing less of Ford Prefect and more Arthur Dent in your posts. You look like you are trying your best not to look nervous. And the thing about pressuring for a lynch made me laugh. The whole point is that BH has been pressuring for a lynch since his first post. That is a bad thing. As for my town reads, in this case, town is usually just a lack of scumminess, as I said earlier.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious. If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Just as a place holder if I change my mind.

That was on the original vote. I call that not serious.

MMM has been kind of avoiding any kind of question or not going deep into it, when the 'wagon' started he revenge voted instead of trying to defend himself, and he seems to know more than he should.

Soon after the vote.

And his unvote was clearly triggered by the reaction to his hurry up comment.

So far very weak reason's from MMM with no basis in fact for find Nick not bad.

I didn't find Nick as scummy as Ythan, I admitted that. I also said, in my original post, then when compared with Ythan's play, Nick did look bad. I don't need to prove that Nick's posts were good, I find him scummy.

FoS: farside22

I find it interesting how you decide that I'm scum with Nick solely because I didn't say I found anything scummy about his posts when I voted for him.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I was obviously with my questions trying to find what you saw as better.

That's not what I saw.

I'm calling Nick/MMM scum team right now.

I'm still not sure of what your logic is that groups the two of us together.

ISO Ythan. Then ISO Nick. I see Ythan as scummier, which makes precious little difference seeing as how they have the same role pm. Ythan is far more erratic, whereas Nick made an non-serious vote, and I call it non-serious BECAUSE he expressed suspicion of myself and Mindgamer, then said that it was a "placeholder". I'm not close to being lynched yet, so there was no danger in the vote, Nick admitted it was just a placeholder, so he's not overreacting or misjudging the strength of his vote. I really don't see anything scummy about that. I do think his 'hurry up and lynch' post was scummy, as well as the subsequent unvote.

MMM - How experienced would you say you are with mafia?

I'm not very experienced. A few newbie games a vengeful 5P, and some small games I played/hosted in RL.

In all seriousness, can you point out any evidence to show that I am, in fact, actively attempting to hide any form of nervousness?

(I chose you over [insert majority of player list here] because of secret reasoning that is too awesome to disclose)

reeeeeaaaaaaaaaasooooooooooooniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssss teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and I usually say that when YOU DO NOT GIVE ANY

The thought of me being 'nervous' is so laughable that it's pathetic.

And here's an interesting tidbit I found:

active lurking is scummy (it's one of my top scum traits from games I've won as scum...

Now, why would you say that? I can think of two reasons.

1. You are town, and this a rather thin ploy to make you look town.

2. You are scum, and you are using this as a controlled meta, by posting a lot you will convince everyone you are town.

[quote-"chauchaudotcom"]Then what distinguishes your town and null reads?[/quote]

An active player who doesn't make any bad votes or other scumtells is town in my book. A semi-active player who doesn't really comment on the goings-on is null.

And btw, I did vote for Nick last page.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

That's not what I saw.

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

How could you miss it?

My point was, you didn't seem interested in the reasons. You claimed I was scum based on the fact that I didn't find that one vote scummy. This seems entirely illogical seeing as how I am VOTING that person anyway. The 'placeholder' vote is simply not part of my case.

ISO Ythan. Then ISO Nick. I see Ythan as scummier, which makes precious little difference seeing as how they have the same role pm. Ythan is far more erratic, whereas Nick made an non-serious vote, and I call it non-serious BECAUSE he expressed suspicion of myself and Mindgamer, then said that it was a "placeholder". I'm not close to being lynched yet, so there was no danger in the vote, Nick admitted it was just a placeholder, so he's not overreacting or misjudging the strength of his vote. I really don't see anything scummy about that. I do think his 'hurry up and lynch' post was scummy, as well as the subsequent unvote.

Not seeing how his vote was not serious. He voted for you over Mind with no reason and then pushed for it. How is that not serious again?

The fact that there was no reason for it makes it not serious. He admitted there was no reason for it. I don't like how I am the one defending the vote, you should have questioned Nick about it.

@MMM:
Why are you voting for BH?

I'm voting for Nick.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

MMM, you missed my questions:

Still, a few newbie games + a vengeful is a decent amount. So how familiar are you with OMGUS?

Also, how are those quotes of Ray showing that he is nervous? I don't see it.

Mindgamer's my top for reasons stated before.

But lMMM is closing that gap pretty quickly. Originally I thought MMM was just frustrated newbie town. But he's played in around 5 games or so and his constant use of not just OMGUS but very weakly supported cases concerns me (particularly his latest exchanges with Frost).

How exactly am I using OMGUS? As for RayFrost, based on my previous experience with him, he seems very nervous, the slurred words are new, and he's acting out far more.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

This has got to be the worst wagon I've seen.

First off, CC.com is voting me because:

a) She thinks I've used OMGUS. As I've explained before, my vote on BH was partly to end RVS, and partly because I found his constant bandwagoning to be scummy. Concerning farside22, I don't understand her logic in declaring myself and Nick to be the scum. The fact that I didn't, and still don't find anything scummy in Nick's original vote isn't a scumtell. I voted Nick, right now I think he's got the highest chance to be scum. farside22 found me suspicious because my case on Nick didn't agree with hers. Now that's ridiculous. And, I think it's just a tad scummy. Enough to warrant an FoS.

b) I find RayFrost nervous. I thought this was clear to everyone, but to clarify even further: I SEE RAYFROST USING A DIFFERENT STYLE OF PLAY THAN I SAW LAST. I interpret the earlier parts I quoted as nervousness, you might interpret them differently. You might have a completely different meta read of RayFrost, my opinion isn't the only one. But from where I am, I see a very nervous player. Of course, it is very scummy to vote him solely based on a meta read of nervousness. Oh... wait a minute... I DIDN'T DO THAT! I never voted him, I never set up a bandwagon, I never did any "die scum" stuff, I simply noted the read in my summation. If it wasn't for RayFrost's enormous ego, nobody would've minded.

Secondly, farside22 case.

I still can't understand why you are voting me. I stated my case on Ythan/Nick, a player you also said you find scummy, and I voted for him. You find it suspicious that I didn't find Nick's vote scummy, even though I found just about everything else those players did scummy. You then declared a Nick/MMM scumteam. You say that I used 'horrible logic' in declaring Nick's vote unscummy. Words fail me. Exactly how was my logic unsound? Nick made an non-serious vote, claiming it was non-serious. That's not a scumtell in my book. Also under the list titled "NOT scumtells" is a player who votes for another player without finding EVERY action that player took scummy. From where I'm sitting, you seem really desperate to get a good bandwagon on me that just isn't there.

Third: RayFrost.

Starting with your original vote for me, this was your logic:

(I chose you over [insert majority of player list here] because of secret reasoning that is too awesome to disclose)

Pray tell, what is this reasoning? Is it that I lost my cool in one game, so you thought I'd lose my cool here? It can't be that, that would be using, in your words, a "half-baked meta".

I know MMM better than semi. More info this way.

Can't you just admit it was a pressure vote? You obviously voted me just for a reaction.

I sincerely believe that MMM is scum. Him acting placatingly to me while also saying I'm suspicious is scummy.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Would it have been less scummy if I OMGUSed you instead of BH? Did you feel left out? Exactly what did I do to make you "sincerely believe" I am scum?

Most of the rest of your case revolves around the fact that I read your play as nervous. OMGUS if I ever saw it.

Finally, the newest vote on the bandwagon, McGriddle. Looks like he's just voting me to get RayFrost's cookies.

All these cases are built on nothing. CC.com is saying I'm scum because I find the cases on me scummy. farside22 is voting me because I don't agree with her on the validity of another player's vote. RayFrost is voting me out of pressure and OMGUS. McGriddle is voting me to be one of those annoying players who bandwagons everybody. If you think that's enough, go ahead, lynch me. At least one scum got to be in on this, but it's a toss-up at this point.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I'm posting because the activity in this game is lagging, but there's not much I have to say, since I still don't see a single person on my bandwagon with a good reason to vote me, except perhaps chauchaudotcom. Nick is still my number one suspect, with McGriddle as number two. I'll need to look more closely at Deer, evilsnail, ortolan, and semioldguy. I haven't had much a read on them.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ cc.com:

I voted BH because he seemed like the best target at the time. He had started an attack on me since his first post, with very little information. I put an FoS on farside22 because her logic in calling me was flawed at best and scummy at worst. It boils down to the fact that I saw the phrase "Just a placeholder if I change my mind" as an indication that the accompanying vote wasn't meant to be taken quite so seriously. This is reinforced by the fact that Nick unvoted easily, as well as Nick's post 245 later on. farside22 saw the vote as scummy, so assumed that I was Nick's scumpartner. She ignored the other tells I had on Nick and Ythan, and focussed on the one spot where we disagreed. Furthermore, if I did lie about Nick's post to get him off the hook, that implies an attempt at buddying. Voting Nick implies an attempt at distancing. Even if it was logically sound to buddy and distance at the same time as a tactic, the tell only holds water if Nick is my partner. farside22 is an experienced player, so I doubt she'd misinterpret the 'tell' accidentally. So I put an FoS on her. As for RayFrost, I read him as nervous, and nervousness is likely scummy. If you don't see it, well I've done my best to explain why I see him acting nervously. It's fine if you don't agree, but you've made it out as if I've built a huge case on him. I haven't, if RayFrost hadn't questioned me about it, it wouldn't have been a big deal. Having a different opinion about another player is not a scumtell. Voting or bandwagoning a player based on something as weak as a meta read is a scumtell. But I haven't done that. I have added my meta read to my read on RayFrost, which is not scummy at all. Besides which, RayFrost DID vote me earlier in the game because he knew I was a good target for a pressure vote. That's the same as voting based on a meta. How come you're not on his case?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

My reasons for voting him are as follows:

Ythan's 'tell' on RayFrost was poor. Apparently, RayFrost said in this game that he is good as scum, and said in another game that he was bad. Not only is this tell against mafiascum.net game policy, but it makes no sense. Bragging about one's scum hunting abilities doesn't make one scum.

ISO #23 bugs me. He says he's obv town for no reason.

Ythan continues to stick with the tell on RayFrost besides numerous players saying it was bad logic.

He doesn't respond to any other cases happening, and in fact says: "Show me a better case and my vote will follow it."

Nick replaces in, and starts to push for a quicklynch.

Nick unvotes easily when informed about the quicklynch faux pas.

Nick claims that the unvote was just because the original vote was a placeholder, but revotes me soon afterward, practically admitting that it's so he won't get lynched.

farside22 and I think a few other players find Nick's original vote scummy, I don't, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

1) your lack of explanantion on what about Nik was fine.

it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

I did? Where?

I'm calling Nick/MMM scum team right now.

MMM contradiction and reasoning for finding Nick's post not bad is horrible logic.

3) you saying it's not a serious vote but when a player says they find 2 players scummy it's a bit serious in my view

Just as a place holder if I change my mind.

Wait wait WHAT? I just said it was a placeholder so I'd have a vote up there, and I just said that I was torn between MMM and mindgamer, and then you just come out and DEMAND explanation on why I choose MMM over mindgamer.

I don't like people using generic tells like this as a basis for scum hunting. It is both easy and convenient to hide behind such tells due to a wide acceptance of the tell. Please explain the motivation you see behind this OMGUS voting, and spare me a cookie-cutter response.

all OMGUS is scummy to me.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22:

MMM contradiction and reasoning for finding Nick's post not bad is horrible logic.

As I quoted earlier.

Also MMM if a post isn't good and it's not fine what exactly is the post?

I'm sorry, what?

This means whether it's a place holder or not he (nick) seriously thought one of MMM or Mind is scum.

The key point being 'ONE OF'. It was obvious from the post that he did not completely believe I was scum. He wanted a vote on somebody, I don't know why, but he did. I feel really weird trying to explain another player's motives. I shouldn't be answering for Nick. I stated my case: I don't believe the vote was serious, and I don't believe it's a scumtell. Now, if Nick pops up and says, no MMM, you're wrong, I was totally serious, then I guess you're right. But all the evidence says that Nick wasn't serious. I don't understand why this is of such interest to you. Why does it matter if we disagree on a scumtell? I took the placeholder comment to mean the vote wasn't serious. You don't think that's the case. So what's the problem?

@ semioldguy:

That was meant for McGriddle. He seems to take pride in lurking, and I find his behaviour scummy. I find it interesting that despite your specific request to avoid cookie-cutter responses, he gives one anyway.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

If Nicks' post is not good and it's not bad what is his post if not fine MMM?

I find it interesting because I beleive you are scum together and could be bussing. I want all to see the contradictions.

I see Nick's initial vote as not scummy. Not exactly a good move, but not scummy. The subsequent pushing for a lynch, unvote, and revote, are scummy.

Why do you say we are busing? What led you to that conclusion? Also, what contradictions have I made?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Um...

OK. I don't see any contradictions in those posts. As for busing, well, I find Nick/Ythan scummy. If you see it as busing, that implies that you must find Nick/Ythan scummy as well. But I haven't seen much to indicate that.

Still this doesn't explain who nick is okay.

I said that Nick looked better in relation to Ythan, and gave my reasoning why.

Wasn't this the main reason he is scummy to most people including MMM?

I never said the vote was part of my reasoning. As for other people, you just gave me heck for using the same tells that other people found scummy. So far, I count one contradiction you've made.

And here we go back to calling it scummy

How does that quote imply I found the vote scummy? I said I found the unvote scummy.

Still not seeing any contradictions I've made. Your case is poorly put together, with barely a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Nicks vote on MMM for no reason is why I see them together.

I don't get that. Nick and myself are the only bandwagons going anywhere. That vote was likely just scummy self-preservation.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: I think Nick's unvote was scummy, and the quotes you selected don't challenge that. The first quote illustrates why I saw Nick's original vote as non-serious. And I don't see how saying that the unvote was triggered by anything affects it being a scumtell.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ evilsnail: Who do you find scummier?

Anyway, I still see Nick as scummiest. If we had more time, I might look into farside22 and mindgamer some more, but I'm comfortable enough with Nick for day 1.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Nick is at L-1, FYI.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Today, at 9 pm EST. Nick's due for a prod as well.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

OK, who's voting me? Let me see...

@ Confucius:

Your first post strikes me as a scare tactic. “Don't vote for me, or one of us will be lynched!”

That was RVS. It's not my fault if you're stupid and/or have no sense of humor. Actually, if you had even read the post you are referring to, the joke was NOT that he was voting me, but that we were in two games in a row. Stupid, yes. Scummy, no.

I do not buy your explanation of Post 105. The chances of a scum being lynched on Day One is objectively 25%. Narrowing the lynch candidates down to a scum and a town increases the chance to 50%. It does not “make sense” as scum to limit lynches in such a manner.

OK, let me try and make this as simple as possible.

a) Bio Hazard cannot know, at that stage of the game, that I am scum. No way.

b) BH tunneled me from the start. Irrefutable.

c) Either BH is bad town, or he is scum, because good town would not tunnel on someone that early in the game.

d) Tunneling is considered a scumtell.

e) If BH is town, he clearly does not know that tunneling is bad form. I attempted to show him why. That was my reasoning for that post.

I don't understand the argument in the last couple of sentences. Are you saying that scum would likely play the odds that a townie is lynched? That would allow for more discussion, analysis, and eventually the scum would be caught.

Your post also jumps to an absurd conclusion. An early serious vote by one player does not by any means necessitate or make likely that one of those two players shall be lynched.

Sigh... missing the point entirely. The action that Bio Hazard took leads to one of those scenarios. In the real game, of course, things get complicated, and that's not the case. But the INTENTIONS are still the same. I was questioning BH's intentions for tunneling from the start, to which I see no good reason.

Even if your conclusion was somehow correct, your argument that “an early serious vote on you is bad for the town” is undermined by your very own parenthetical – it is good for the town “of course, if you are scum.”

?

If I'm scum, that makes Bio Hazard the best scum catcher in the universe. Why? Because he was able to catch me FROM MY FIRST POST!!!!!! HE'S GENIUS!!!!

OR....................................

It turns out I wasn't scum. In which case he's responsible for my lynch, in which case he's likely scum, in which case he's likely lynched. If he was town, the town is now down two lynches. Which is what I wanted to point out to him. His logic was weak, and not worthy of the intensity with which he pushed his argument.

I can hardly believe this post has gone by largely without comment. This is very much an overreaction. Who is more likely to be perturbed about being voted by somebody who is not a player in the game? The answer is scum, because it seems “unfair” to be caught by a player who should not be playing.

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. You are arbitrarily assigning a motive to a mistake caused by the posting system on the site, and the lack of an updated player list.

@ farside22:

My first issue with MMM is most of the players he has suspicion are based on those who are suspicious of him.

Dealt with this before. My vote on BH was OMGUS, but it was RVS, and I kept it because he kept fueling my suspicious with tunneling. RayFrost, because he was acting nervously, and there wasn't much of in the way of scumtells at the time.

he knows bio was town

That post was made on the assumption that BH was town. It was an attempt to dissuade him from tunneling if he was town, since it was bad for town. It can just as easily be said that from the look of your post it seems you know I'm scum. What's up with that?

this feels like panic at the votes saying it was too early for serious votes

The statement about it being too early for serious votes was an impression I got from the tone of the discussion at the time. BH and RF were the only odd men out.

and this made BH scummy how?

Because he didn't scrutinize anyone else. He knew his target from the get-go, the rest was just trying to find bits of evidence to go along with the bandwagon.

calling one scum and the other not as bad with your reasons being that ythan is overly aggressive. His reason's for voting ray by the was was an ongoing game.

SYSTEM FAILURE

INSUFFICIENT LEVELS OF CLARITY

PLEASE UPGRADE SENTENCE TO SUIT MINIMUM READABILITY STANDARDS

In rereading MMM I wish he had expanded like this in the first place.

Curious. Above you said you didn't understand my reasons for voting Ythan.

this post bothers me because he had stated suspicion on Ray and BH more then myself or mindgamer so why the sudden change?

STRAWMAN ALERT! STRAWMAN ALERT!

The post was about who I wanted to ISO and analyse. I never made any indication that MG and FS22 were looking more scummy than BH and RF.

I still scum vibes coming from MMM calling Ray nervous is laughable compared to reading MMM who comes across as nervous.

Translation:

OK, MMM is scummy for thinking Ray was nervous. I think MMM is nervous.

Any questions, class?

I did not like that most of the people he had suspicion on were the one's attacking him.

Funny you should mention this, because I made a point earlier to BH about how since he was attacking me while the rest were chatting, he was more noticeable than the others. This was the case with BH and RF. They were attacking me for no good reason. The others weren't. Who was I supposed to take an interest in?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

You are referring to your first post of the game, namely Post 8. I was referring to your subsequent posts where you try to defend yourself. When I said “your first post,” I was clearly referring to the first post I was quoting in Post 304, where you tried to tell BioHazard that if he voted for you, one of you would eventually be lynched. In other words, a scare tactic to get BioHazard to stop voting for you. If you had read my post in context, this should not have been confusing for you.

"Your first post" implies the first post I made, "The first post" could be taken to mean the post first quoted, but whatever...

Do you really think it was a 'scare tactic'? I was expressing how his tunneling was anti-town, and why I therefore found it scummy. It was clearly his intent to get me lynched, after only a few posts. That means that, regardless of what WOULD have happen, he was trying to get me lynched, and he must have known that that ran a risk of getting himself lynched.

Amusing fact: “tunneling” one the first few pages of a game is a synonym “pressuring.” And applying pressure gets reactions. Much like yours!

Your entire premise that "tunneling is considered a scumtell" is faulty. Even if it is, it was not applicable to BioHazard's posts simply because his first few posts of the game happened to be directed towards you. Tunneling is going through practically an entire game Day without taking one's eyes off of one particular player, which BioHazard did not do.

Sure, nothing wrong with pressuring a player you find scummy. But arbitrarily pressuring players? That looks scummy, even if it isn't. And I asked Bio Hazard if he really thought I was scum, and he said yes. That's when I got worried. This wasn't pressuring. Eventually, he stopped tunneling, and I stopped saying he was tunneling.

-> a.) On Day One, there are 9 townspeople and 3 scum. Therefore, there is an objective 25% chance of scum being lynched.

-> b.) If BioHazard had been scum and your conclusion was correct (that “one of you would be lynched”), then the objective chances of a scum lynch would increase to 50%, because from your position, either you or BioHazard would have been lynched.

Hence, it did not “make sense” for a hypothetical BioHazard-scum to attack you when you actually apply your own reasoning.

In other words, your defense made no sense. You are unreasonably assuming that whenever a townsperson tunnels on somebody on Day One, both the townsperson and the person tunneled are eventually lynched. This is patently false.

It made less sense if he was town, because he would only have a 25% of hitting scum with tunneling. Then, he would run the risk of one of us flipping town, then the other one getting lynched the following day.

First, every time anybody ever calls something “scummy” or “townish” it is necessarily assigning a motive to the post. When I call your posts scummy, it is not arbitrary, but quite purposeful.

Second, there were no mistakes on the posting system of the site that caused you to make that post. jeffcole1's post introducing Nick2557 into the game was there for all to see, regardless of whether the first post was updated at that point in time. You clearly didn't see the post, because your eyes obviously went straight to the vote on you. Your reaction was swift and in anger. That is scummy.

Some motives are more likely than others. Your 'reasoning' makes no sense. There was no mistake with the posting, I sent my post, then Nick's popped up on the bottom. I checked the player list, and he wasn't on it.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: Your case yesterday hung on the theory that I was partners with Nick. Since that is clearly impossible, what new evidence makes me suspicious?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Do you really think it was a 'scare tactic'? I was expressing how his tunneling was anti-town, and why I therefore found it scummy. It was clearly his intent to get me lynched, after only a few posts. That means that, regardless of what WOULD have happen, he was trying to get me lynched, and he must have known that that ran a risk of getting himself lynched.

Your problem: You assume because somebody votes for you, that their intent is to lynch you, and that there are no other possible motivations.

Votes are the best means through which townspeople can apply pressure, absent a power role. Pressure gets scum to crack and make mistakes. Votes do not stay on players forever and for all time. Votes change. Opinions change. There is no reason to be “worried” from a “serious vote” on you on

page two

of the game.

Again, I asked Bio Hazard's intentions, and he claimed he thought I was scum. That implies that he was intending to lynch me.

There was no mistake with the posting, I sent my post, then Nick's popped up on the bottom. I checked the player list, and he wasn't on it.

That is interesting in itself.

If I am reading your post correctly (and correct me if I am wrong), you are claiming that NickF227 made his post while you were in the process of writing your post, such that you would have seen NickF227’s post in “preview” mode.

If that is true, then since NickF227’s post was 2:08 p.m. forum time, you spent over half an hour writing up Post 155, which registered at 2:40 p.m. forum time. Do you normally take that long to write up a single paragraph?

If that is not true, then you had absolutely no reason to miss Post 151, which was not only a post from the Mod, but a post that was written in bold, and colored in purple. The post was not even edited, so you cannot claim it “said something else” at the time you posted. I think the likeliest explanation is that your eyes went immediately to NickF227's vote on you, and you obviously didn't bother to read any of the posts preceding it with any detail. I think that had NickF227 voted for somebody else, you probably wouldn't have had such an angry reaction.

I wrote the post, left the computer, came back, sent the post, noticed Nick, checked the player list, added a rebuke, and sent the post. Exactly how are you having trouble understanding this?

~

I would sure appreciate it if evilsnail would actually post something so I can get in a conversation with him.

~

FoS: semioldguy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

havingfitz looks scummy. The logic of his last post only works if CC.com and myself are scum together. CC.com and myself talked quite a bit toward the end of the day, so it's understandable she'd change her mind. Also, deadline was imminent, so her choice was lynch Nick or no-lynch. I don't see how she can be blamed for that.

I ISO'd Mindgamer, and noticed he was attacking everyone, although subtly, and found this little gem:

Using your Vote only to back up your Voice is a waste of your Vote.

Can't believe I missed that before. Very weird.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: I thought your logic was that CC.com would prefer to lynch Nick than myself, which, from a scum perspective, would only be logical if we were both scum. That doesn't really make sense though, since she was already voting me. But, unless I'm wrong, your point is that scum would prefer a lynch to a no-lynch. But town prefer that as well. So, I'm having trouble seeing why you think CC.com's hammer was scummy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Confucius: I clicked on submit, and it went to the preview screen because the computer was inactive for so long. I saw only the most recent post, Nick's. But for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. I KNEW Nick had replaced into the game, and yet decided to insult him ANYWAY. Can you please give a good motive as to why I'd do this?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Confucius: I gave reasoning for why I did not see the mod's announcement. This so called 'scum-tell' is ridiculous, as even if I did react because I was angry at the vote, how does that make me scum?

Your play this entire game shows that you are more concerned about "who is voting for me?" over "who is scum?"

No evidence for that. I've been scum-hunting, but every time I find someone suspicious, someone else starts breathing down my neck.

Is this the only point you have against me?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Vote: havingfitz

Just to speed things up. I seem to be the most active player for this game, so I'll be able to quickly unvote if required.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Confucius:

I'm not sure what is so hard to believe about this. I wrote the post. I had to leave the computer. I decided to send the post later, in case anything occurred to me, and I could add to it. I do this all the time. I came back later in the day, looked the post over, and sent it. The preview window popped up with Nick's post showing. I opened the player list in another tab to check it, and didn't find Nick's name on it. I added a rebuke to my post, and sent it.

That's the truth. I completely fail to see anything scummy about it.

As for the rest of your case, of COURSE I was concerned with BH's vote on me, HE WAS CONVINCED I WAS SCUM ON THE FIRST PAGE! Of COURSE I found it suspicious! I voted him because he was acting in a way that was detrimental to the town.

Who else is there... AH! RayFrost. I checked to see where I said he was scummy, and there wasn't really much. I never voted him, I only found him scummy because I read him as nervous. I gave less than flattering reads on plenty of other players.

As for Nick, how do you think my vote on him was influenced at ALL by his vote on me? He already had a bandwagon on him! I voted him with solid reasoning.

The McGriddle aspect of your post is ridiculous. I admit, my read on McGriddle was influenced by his vote on me. And do you know why? BECAUSE HE VOTED ME WITH NO REASONING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THAT'S JUST A LITTLE ODD?????????????????

Need to go COOL down...

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

And by the way, most of the points on me ARE built on nothing! farside22 voted me because I didn't agree Nick's vote was scummy, so I was buddying. Oh, and also, cause I voted Nick. That was distancing. Buddying and distancing at the same time, that's quite a feat! Well, since Nick is town, I obviously wasn't buddying OR distancing him, so her case is shot to hell. That doesn't stop her voting me again today though! Why let something like logic get in the way when you can just shout OMGUS until you get your lynch? And Confucius, your case is crap. Taking reactions I made to outrageous votes on me and claiming I use OMGUS every time I express suspicion of someone who's voted me. Guess what, if I wasn't allowed to vote someone who's voted me, I couldn't vote half the players! Saying someone's case is weak, and attacking them because they voted on a weak case is NOT a scumtell. Saying a player is nervous is NOT a scumtell. Confucius, the two main 'points' you have attacked with are: I used OMGUS on Bio Hazard, and I told Nick off from a misunderstanding. I have yet to understand how the latter is scummy. As for the former, it was early in the game, I admitted I was voting for him because he voted for me, and his vote for me was suspicious. THAT VOTE I MADE WAS VALID. Oh, one more thing, that bit you wrote about not scum-hunting, I was the FIRST to say that. I told Bio Hazard why, because I get so caught up in writing these responses to STUPID accusations, that I just don't have the time to look at anyone else. I've been trying. I put havingfitz under the microscope, and found some bizarre actions. And I would've kept going if I wasn't sidetracked. Now, I'm going to look over the game and try to find some tells. But, of course, no tells that come from someone who voted me. Cause that would be OMGUS. And, as we know, OMGUS is scummy. Anyone who uses OMGUS has to be scum.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

RESPOND TO COUNTER-ARGUMENTS

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

chauchaudotcom: Town read, seems smart. The one confusing thing is how relatively little attention she's given to mindgamer, despite his being her number 1.

Confucius: Could go either way, but my gut read is town.

Deer: At this point in the game, lurking is scummy no matter how you look at it.

evilsnail: Scummy for bandwagoning between Ythan and myself day one. I also don't like how he vanished.

farside22: At first I wasn't sure, that thing about Ythan looked scummy coming from an experienced player. Now, I'm leaning more toward town, but I'll treat this as a balanced out null read.

havingfitz: Voting him because of a bad attack on CC.com, and the game is dragging.

hitogoroshi: Not much to go on, RayFrost was as clear as mud, and this guy's made about two posts of content. I'll call it null, but leaning town.

semioldguy: Looks strong town. Could be a front, of course, but until we get at least one confirmed scum, I'll call him town.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

RESPOND TO COUNTER-ARGUMENTS

I am quite done responding to you on these subjects -- we have both said our piece. Our posts by this point are just rewording things we have already said, and they are taking up space. It is not my job to convince

you

that you are scum.

No. Bad player. No more games for you. You don't replace into a game, pick one player to vote for, and rehash your arguments while adding nothing new to them until you say "OK, I'm done now". Here's how it works. You make an accusation. I defend myself. You either admit you were wrong, attack my defence, or explain how the defence was inadequate. Otherwise, you don't get anyone to vote with you, and the bandwagon goes nowhere.

Questions:

Confucius, do you really believe I am scum because I missed a post from the mod?

farside22, how has Nick's flip affect your opinions of me?

havingfitz, was your vote on CC.com solely from her hammer?

CC.com, what's your opinion on havingfitz compared with mindgamer?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Confucius: About the wiki, it's commenting on the player, not the game, but to avoid hassle it's been revised.

Also, that meta read is worthless, as unless you can say that Bio Hazard had good reason for believing me to be scum, my vote on him was valid.

@ havingfitz: Would you have preferred a Nick lynch or a no-lynch D1? Because that was the decision CC.com had to make. There was no time for discussion, no time to convince anyone else to vote for mindgamer. I really don't see anything scummy about it at all. Check the time on her vote if you aren't convinced. It was deadline, and nobody else was online. Nobody else had time to vote for me, so I was NOT as likely to be lynched.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Would you have preferred a Nick lynch or a no-lynch D1? Because that was the decision CC.com had to make. There was no time for discussion, no time to convince anyone else to vote for mindgamer. I really don't see anything scummy about it at all. Check the time on her vote if you aren't convinced. It was deadline, and nobody else was online. Nobody else had time to vote for me, so I was NOT as likely to be lynched.

I would not vote someone I did not have suspicions on to avoid a no lynch. I did not have suspicions D1 towards Nick. So no. Why are you bringing up mindgamer? And at the time chau moved off your wagon there was still a shot at you (ie someone chau had at least expressed suspicions towards as opposed to Nick whom she did not, iirc) being the lynch...which is the point I am making.

OK, I had 4 votes on me. Nick had 6. It was deadline, actually it was past deadline, thanks to mod for counting the last vote anyway. Anyway, the only way I could be lynched is if both CC.com voted AND two other people magically appeared in the next fifteen minutes and voted me as well. Are you saying CC.com should've taken that chance? THERE WAS NO TIME for anyone else to vote, CC.com had a matter of minutes to vote either Nick let there be a no-lynch. There was no other option. And a no-lynch is almost always bad for the town, it's basically giving the scum a free kill. I mentioned mindgamer because that was who CC.com would have liked to lynch, but the bandwagon wasn't going anywhere.

You are saying that the day should have ended in a no-lynch, which is quite scummy. You are also spreading suspicion on a player because she thought that a no-lynch was bad. Please explain how a no-lynch D1 benefits town.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Would you have preferred a Nick lynch or a no-lynch D1? Because that was the decision CC.com had to make. There was no time for discussion, no time to convince anyone else to vote for mindgamer. I really don't see anything scummy about it at all. Check the time on her vote if you aren't convinced. It was deadline, and nobody else was online. Nobody else had time to vote for me, so I was NOT as likely to be lynched.

I would not vote someone I did not have suspicions on to avoid a no lynch. I did not have suspicions D1 towards Nick. So no. Why are you bringing up mindgamer? And at the time chau moved off your wagon there was still a shot at you (ie someone chau had at least expressed suspicions towards as opposed to Nick whom she did not, iirc) being the lynch...which is the point I am making.

OK, I had 4 votes on me. Nick had 6. It was deadline, actually it was past deadline, thanks to mod for counting the last vote anyway. Anyway, the only way I could be lynched is if both CC.com voted AND two other people magically appeared in the next fifteen minutes and voted me as well. Are you saying CC.com should've taken that chance? THERE WAS NO TIME for anyone else to vote, CC.com had a matter of minutes to vote either Nick let there be a no-lynch.

True...when we were down to the deadline it was 6-4 and a lynch on you would have been hard to obtain. My suspicions on chau are mostly sue to the fact she got off your wagon when she did...after two fairly quick votes on you had brought you up to L-2...and when you were an equally strong candidate for the D1 lynch. Then to hammer someone she had voiced little or no suspicions for just seemed too convenient....especially when pulling out the ‘avoid a no-lynch’ reason. Should players get a bye from suspicion just because they were ‘avoiding a no lynch?’ Wouldn’t that be convenient for scum.

The problem is, town would be just as likely to vote to avoid a no-lynch. So it's a null tell. Actually, one could argue it's a town tell, since scum would probably like a no-lynch since Nick would likely be lynched D2, and the town would waste time. I'm not sure about that, but I am sure that the lynch was good for the town as a whole, since a lot of us did have suspicions on Nick. For CC.com not to hammer would be unfair to the town as a whole.

There was no other option. And a no-lynch is almost always bad for the town, it's basically giving the scum a free kill. I mentioned mindgamer because that was who CC.com would have liked to lynch, but the bandwagon wasn't going anywhere.

OK...you say almost. That means it isn’t always the best option. Since you said almost...what situations are no-lynches acceptable?

No-Lynch is a viable play in a three town/one scum endgame, since the odds of hitting scum go from 1/4 to 1/3 overnight.

You are saying that the day should have ended in a no-lynch, which is quite scummy. You are also spreading suspicion on a player because she thought that a no-lynch was bad. Please explain how a no-lynch D1 benefits town.

I do not support no-lynches, I would never vote for a no-lynch, and given the choice of two or three players I was suspect of...I would move my vote from one or the other to avoid a no-lynch; however, I would not put a vote on a player I did not have suspicions towards to get a no-lynch.

Whether or not CC.com had suspicions on Nick, the town would suffer from a no-lynch. Therefore, it was in the best interests of the town for her to hammer.

Ex...if we were getting close to a no-lynch today and a chau-wagon (haha) did not have a lot of support...I would gladly move to a MMM wagon. Because I suspect you too

Aw... Thanks!

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Why do you suspect me?

@ Confucius: You just had to try and SLANDER me, didn't you? I knew you would, you TROLLS are all the same. Well, you got enough ATTENTION to get to respond to you for another three minutes today. Good job. Consider your EGO massaged. In fact, I'll throw you a bonus treat: exactly WHY was my vote on BH invalid? Please answer this time, or wait, you'll probably just post some more "HAHA look at the newb" drivel. Oh, and another thing, if I say something is illogical, that's generally because it IS ILLOGICAL, not because I have some pathetic vendetta against the player.

Wow, look at that paragraph you got from me! But no more troll food for you anymore. I'm cutting you off.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I gotta say, havingfitz's 428 makes it look like he's buddies with evilsnail. As for the third scum, I think it's got to be either CC.com or semioldguy, but for the life of me I can't be sure which one.

Unvote, vote: evilsnail

I can't see getting a majority for anyone else in time.

@ hitogoroshi: I find it interesting how at first you state the importance of coming to an agreement for the lynch quickly, yet you criticize my vote on havingfitz which attempted to do just that. Also, I can think of numerous reasons why havingfitz would suspect me, but I still don't know what his reasons are. It's possible he's just bandwagoning.

@ havingfitz: I think you would only be 'ninja'd' if farside22 said the same thing you were going to say.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Plenty of people have expressed suspicion of evilsnail, if you are unfamiliar with the case, then you should read back, your critique of the bandwagon confirms my suspicion you're buddies with evilsnail.

@ Confucius: There's a contradiction in your case on me. When you unvoted based on a meta read, it implied that your case was built on another opposite meta read. Meta is a fairly weak tell, and usually only used to supplement other cases. So, the only logical reason you would unvote based on only a meta, is if your vote was only based on a meta. In which case, there wouldn't be a case left, the meta reads cancel each other out. So, why would you still express suspicion of me? That implies that you have other reasoning I am scum, which makes your unvote illogical.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Confucius: Then what was the reasoning for your unvote?

I feel comfortable with my vote on evilsnail. Even with a week, this game is slow, and I feel relatively sure he's one of the scum due to his vote patterns, and bandwagoning D1. My suspicions are on CC.com and SOG because they suspect each other, and I don't think they are both wrong.

@ Pittbunny: You are trusting the reasoning of a player you replaced because of inactivity, i.e. someone who doesn't care much about the game. What assurance do you have that the reasoning is valid?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I feel comfortable with my vote on evilsnail. Even with a week, this game is slow, and I feel relatively sure he's one of the scum due to his vote patterns, and bandwagoning D1. My suspicions are on CC.com and SOG because they suspect each other, and I don't think they are both wrong.

His vote patterns and bandwagoning? He had a random vote on RayFrost and then a vote he maintained on the eventual mislynch...which you joined in on later. Does that make you a bandwagoner too?

He switched his suspicions constantly. He kept ready to switch to my bandwagon in case the tide turned.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

Nice try. If I was going to OMGUS I could come up with a much better target.

Happy with my vote where it is.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: If I was scum, why would I want to lynch an inactive player?

I'm ISOing CC.com and semioldguy. Results later.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Reading CC.com in ISO, and I found a few problems. She starts day 2 by voting havingfitz, since he's mindgamer's replacement, but then questions semioldguy. It starts with a casual 'what are you thinking', but then most of her posts are responding to his. I also don't like her disinterest in havingfitz's weak vote on her, and I'm wondering about a scum team. Given the fact that they either are or were voting for each other, they don't really seem to be questioning one another. Looks like distancing.

@ CC.com: What made semioldguy more scummy than havingfitz/mindgamer?

@ havingfitz: Is your case on CC.com still only based on her hammer?

An ISO of semioldguy is next.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Reading CC.com in ISO, and I found a few problems. She starts day 2 by voting havingfitz, since he's mindgamer's replacement, but then questions semioldguy. It starts with a casual 'what are you thinking', but then most of her posts are responding to his. I also don't like her disinterest in havingfitz's weak vote on her, and I'm wondering about a scum team. Given the fact that they either are or were voting for each other, they don't really seem to be questioning one another. Looks like distancing.
------
@ havingfitz: Is your case on CC.com still only based on her hammer?

Which case is that? You do realize my vote is on you? As for my prior vote on chau...she hasn't done anything to allieve my suspicions...she has just been passed by you.

Speaking of distancing, why was it you went from a town read on chau to suspecting her? And so now I'm in a scum team with evil AND chau? Impressive work.

It is?

*headbang*

--------------------------------------

I'm currently undecided on CC.com, it will depend on my read of semioldguy. If he looks scummy, CC.com will look better, and vice versa. As it stands now, I see no reason to exclude CC.com from suspicion. I don't like how she switched from mindgamer to semioldguy so suddenly.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: Unless he can show how my vote on BH wasn't valid, I didn't OMGUS, and his argument doesn't make sense.

Regarding semioldguy...

The ISO read troubles me.

evilsnail is my leading suspect currently, but I'd really like to see some more posts from him first. Mysterious Mystery Man is slightly suspicious to me, but not for many of the reasons others have put forward as mentioned, and I am looking at you as my third suspect mostly for reasons brought up against you.

A lot must have changed between then and your vote for CC.com, what made her scummier than both myself and evilsnail? Also, how did I become your #2 suspect?

The reason (singular) I found Mysterious Mystery Man to be slightly suspicious was because of his post 105.

So, your case on me was this single post?

@ Bio Hazard: It is scummy because it is distracting to me. The defence of 'scum wouldn't do that in RVS' is WIFOM. Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move

for town

, the exception being of course, if I am scum. Do you really think I'm scum based on this paltry evidence?

The only reason I was your number two suspect was because I didn't directly call BH scum?

But apart from your ISO #20, you never bring up this point against me. If anything, you are defending me. Instead, you question and vote ccdotcom. You said you dropped evilsnail because he wasn't around to respond, but why did you drop your case on me?

I'll look more closely, but I haven't seen anything interesting in the debates between CC.com and SOG. Certainly nothing that would cause one to suspect the other so strongly. But SOG has clearly been switching his suspicions.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: But my point is that I voted BH because I believed his case on me was bad play for town. Confucius didn't agree, which implied that he thought BH's reasoning was solid. But the burden of proof is on him, and you also, to show that my vote was based on OMGUS. Sadly, he doesn't seem to understand 'burden of proof'.

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Case on evilsnail:

Abrupt bandwagoning: early in the game, he clearly states he finds myself suspicious, but vote Ythan, with no reasoning when his bandwagon starts rolling.

Also, he acted strangely with RayFrost.

RayFrost, I voted you because I thought a wagon on you, as one of the players in this game I know to be quite skilled, would be a good place to start

I thought it'd be more useful to create pressure elsewhere.

I unvoted because I am getting a good vibe from RayFrost.

His RayFrost vote was a real stretch... Well, Ythan's vote for you wasn't great.

I nearly missed the fourth quote. evilsnail's vote was made in RVS, and he was already expressing suspicion of me, so I didn't think much of it. But it's clear either he considered his vote to be serious, or he pretended it was serious. But there wasn't a bandwagon on RayFrost, and evilsnail didn't question him. Either this is a case of the same bandwagoning, dropping his current target to go after the popular vote, or it's scum distancing.

And oh yeah, this is weird:

I don't see what's scummy about trying to build a case in RVS.

The whole point of RVS is that nothing is to be taken seriously. Which is bad enough, but then:

Him acting placatingly to me while also saying I'm suspicious is scummy.

I'm starting to get this feeling too.

Your vote on Biohazard is pretty much completely OMGUS

Changing his argument.

I'm not totally convinced, but I'm willing to vote for him if necessary. I see a habit of bandwagoning with weak reasoning, and scummy interactions with RayFrost.

So. We need to come to a head. If there's enough support for havingfitz, I'd prefer that wagon, otherwise I'll vote evilsnail again.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Unless something dramatic happens, I'll vote evil on Tuesday.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

By 'something dramatic', I mean any reversal of general consensus. But with the pace of this game, I doubt that will happen. That's why I'll vote evilsnail, I really don't see anyone else being lynched in time.

So unless everyone else is ready to lynch havingfitz suddenly, I'm out of things to say.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

I can’t speak for mindgamer's thoughts or reasoning.

So I can't use that as part of my case?

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

How are these contradictions? He says he doesn’t like the way your wagon grew so quickly and confirms that opinion.

Read the quotes again. He switches from saying the wagon is scummy to denying he thought that, to saying it's no big deal, to saying he doesn't like it again.

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

It didn’t matter it was past the deadline…the intention was still there and the vote still counted. As for RF/hito…they haven’t been high enough on my suspect list to focus on. And if they have done nothing else noticeable to me I would not have anything else to say.

Then what has CC.com done that made her more suspicious than RF?

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

If there is no new info for me to add I’m not going to make it up. I do think the timing of her vote was odd…your point? And I said something scary? You’re just making stuff up now…aren’t you?

I really don't see your point with that statement. A player says he didn't like me, which is weak evidence since he changed his mind, disappears, and I want to lynch him because of it? Why? evilsnail isn't a threat. Even if he was replaced, there's no guarantee that his replacement would find me scummy. It's a very weak argument.

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Try here.

I see two accusations, no quotes, no evidence to back up your claims, and a response I made immediately afterward.

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

Where do you see farside’s reasoning easily?

Post 471. Her first paragraph deals with you, as well as the second last one. She also asks two questions directed at you.

And why unvote? If being close to the deadline and there not being any hope for a majority is the only reason you voted him…why take off your vote when we’re even closer to the deadline? Also…the fact you need to post your case on evil shows you did not provide one with your earlier vote on him.

Because I was hoping (and still am) to get a bandwagon on you.

I didn't respond to this earlier because I saw no real need to, you're saying nothing new.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Fine with me.

Vote: havingfitz

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Regardless of his voting patterns, evilsnail sided with whichever bandwagon was popular at the time. The quotes I selected show different opinions at different times. Also, I would like you to respond as to why you think or thought my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me, rather than changing the subject. And it would be nice if you could explain why my vote was OMGUS, instead of just shouting 'FIRE' and hoping for a quicklynch.

EDIT: Yeah, if he's town, we're in lylo and should massclaim tomorrow. On a side note, I've got to stop leaving my posts up overnight.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I’m not going to analyze every comment evil made in his short time here to see if he was supporting bandwagons...

Fine, but I have. You admit to only looking at the votes. I've read Mindgamer in ISO, and compared his suspicions with the suspicions of others.

You are doing quite a good job of suspecting everyone yourself.

? Isn't suspecting everyone a good thing?

I never said I thought your vote on evil was because he expressed suspicion towards you.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

The OMGUS comment is based on my opinion that you are voting me for no reason other than the fact I am pressuring you. You have placed two votes on me provided no reason with either of them. If it’s not OMGUS...how about providing a reason that is valid?

I've been on your case since your vote on CC.com at the start of the day. You only started suspecting me much later on. If anyone is using OMGUS here, it's you.

OK, Mr. ?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz:

Try reading Mindgamer, and I think you'll see the change of opinion. And, although you said otherwise, I have not 'dismissed' Mindgamer's voting; his vote on Ythan with no explanation is another reason in my case against him/you. In contrast, my vote on Ythan was made at the end of the day, and was accompanied by reasoning. Also, suspecting many people is different from bandwagoning. It's one thing to have your eye on more than one person, but quite another to side with the most popular argument. As for the two quotes, my point was to show how you made a argument you couldn't follow up on: namely saying my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me D1. When I questioned you about that, you denied it. It doesn't matter if it was in the same post when you voted me, it was still said, and it's a baseless accusation. Finally, your remark about how you put suspicion on me first is a lie. That post only shows that you wanted to look closer to my case on Mindgamer, who you replaced. So, even if you do take that as an expression of suspicion and not a declaration of investigation, it was still in response to suspicion I put on your player slot.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Hoping for a quicklynch?

No counter-claim or cross-vote from me. I need to review the game, particularly the interactions between chauchaudotcom and semioldguy. I voiced the suspicion earlier that they were scum busing, and it's a more likely possibility now.

@ havingfitz: It would be nice if you responded to my last post, in which I refuted your case on me. I say again: your claim of OMGUS on you is laughable, and you have thus far ignored my case on you. If you want anyone to give your vote credence, I suggest that you respond properly.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

EBTWODB: I appreciate the unvote, but remember, this technically isn't lylo. Confucius still has a chance to hit scum, and besides, there aren't enough scum to pile on and lynch.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

She starts day 2 by voting havingfitz, since he's mindgamer's replacement, but then questions semioldguy. It starts with a casual 'what are you thinking', but then most of her posts are responding to his.

Interesting how both CC.com and farside22 are quick to deny any possibility of distancing.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Hoping for a quicklynch?

For scum, always!

@ havingfitz: It would be nice if you responded to my last post, in which I refuted your case on me. I say again: your claim of OMGUS on you is laughable, and you have thus far ignored my case on you. If you want anyone to give your vote credence, I suggest that you respond properly.

I responded in Post 510 and elaborate at the bottom of this post. I have responded properly and you are ignoring and misrepresenting facts.

And I responded below that post. That is to what I am referring.

Try reading Mindgamer, and I think you'll see the change of opinion. And, although you said otherwise, I have not 'dismissed' Mindgamer's voting; his vote on Ythan with no explanation is another reason in my case against him/you.

Mindgamer did provide reasoning for his vote on Ythan. It wasn’t the greatest and he elaborated a bit in post 159. To say he provided no reason for his vote is another ‘misrepresentation’ on your part.

But not at the time of his vote. That is what I, and others, found scummy.

In contrast, my vote on Ythan was made at the end of the day (Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:58 pm – 8 days left), and was accompanied by reasoning. Also, suspecting many people is different from bandwagoning. It's one thing to have your eye on more than one person, but quite another to side with the most popular argument.

What does this contrast have to do with anything? And BTW...I would not call 8 days left till deadline the end of the day. But regardless...what does it matter?

It was closer to the end of the day than Mindgamer's vote. It was based off reads of two players. It was accompanied immediately with reasoning.

I came across this while quantifying my responses to you and thought it was worth bringing up again:

Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move for town, the exception being of course, if I am scum.

Do you know Bio's alignment somehow?

This again? I have yet to see how that implies I knew BH's alignment. If anything, it implies he was scum, since I proved that he was doing badly as town.

---

As for the two quotes, my point was to show how you made a argument you couldn't follow up on: namely

saying my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me D1

. When I questioned you about that, you denied it. It doesn't matter if it was in the same post when you voted me, it was still said, and it's a baseless accusation.

Your comment above which I bolded is a blatant lie. My vote on you had nothing to do with my later comment about you and evilsnail. As I detail in Post 510. The fact I make an observation later ITT completely separate from my vote can not be construed as being the reason for the earlier vote...as I explained further to Confucius.

So? I still don't know why you said it. If it had nothing to do with your reasoning, then why did you post it?

Finally, your remark about how you put suspicion on me first is a lie. That post only shows that you wanted to look closer to my case on Mindgamer, who you replaced. So, even if you do take that as an expression of suspicion and not a declaration of investigation, it was still in response to suspicion I put on your player slot.

How is it a lie? I replaced in at the start of D2. Eight RL days after D2 had started I state that you and chau have “caught my attention/suspicions” to which you follow less than an hour later saying I am scummy (ie OMGUS!). I can not find any mention by you towards me or mindgamer on D2 prior to you calling me scummy. Additionally....the last reference I can find on D1 where you mention mindgamer is in the post where you vote Ythan (who mindgamer is also voting for) where you say,

Hm... Tricky. I have a gut town read, but his play is erratic. Honestly, I could go either way on him.

So how HTH can you dispute the fact I found you suspicious when I say so (ie before you started to focus on me)?

You did not directly attack me. You did not directly express suspicion of me until much later, after my vote on you had stewed. And my vote on you was based off an entirely different, and perfectly valid reason: your illogical vote on CC.com.

And how can you say I was suspicious of you based on your prior suspicions towards me or mindgamer when you had barely mentioned mindgamer? Hell...two players had votes on mindgamer at the end of D1....that is what I would call exhibiting suspions towards, not what you did. This whole argument on your part is completely without merit.

Mindgamer is secondary, my main points are on you.

Your play on D2 (and so far today) has been poor and you are cornered scum.

I can’t think of any reason to not vote you. I am locked in on you.

This bit is true.

Your play is extremely scummy and your cases are crap. I’m done going around with you...it’s a waste of my time to continue regurgitating what I have already said to you. If anyone else requires clarification on my MMM stance I would be happy to discuss further.

Vote MMM

We should lynch somebody today, and I will Vig somebody overnight. If either one of those hit scum, we will either win the game or have a Day Four with three players alive, and one last chance to lynch scum.

Question....if you are targeted by scum tonight (which I assume you would be)...does your kill go through regardless? When MMMscum is lynched and only one scum remains....whose night action would have precedence? Or would they both go through?

Believe it or not, this post makes me lean toward a town read on you. It's about guaranteed that Confucius will vig me tonight, so scum wouldn't have to get me lynched. I think he really thinks I'm scum.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

OK, I'm leaning toward farside22 as my main suspect. Her play D1 revolved mainly around myself and Ythan/Nick. She claimed that we were scum together for reasons I find flawed. Her main point on me at the start was the one that havingfitz brought up just now, about how I 'knew BH was town'. No mention of OMGUS, which is her primary case on me today. She is inconsistent, saying I used "horrible logic" in one post, and then asking where she said that two posts later, as well as the post after that, where she rebukes ME for not reading. As soon as I express suspicion of Ythan/Nick, she claims we are scum partners, based on the two of us busing. Come day 2, she changes her argument again, this time basing it on OMGUS. I also don't like how she played both sides in my arguments with havingfitz.

More to come as I work through the ISO.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

What exactly is your case against CC.com?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

The possibility that the two of you were distancing had crossed my mind, but both of you looked relatively town at the time. But with Confucius confirmed town, and Pittbunny and evilsnail dead, it grew a lot more likely for you to be scum. The fact that semioldguy was scum is forcing me to re-evaluate my position.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Pie_is_Good: You've said you find me town, but havingfitz scum. What do you think of my logic finding havingfitz town? It makes no sense for scum to attack me today if I am town.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Hm...

I found something else concerning farside22 and CC.com that's quite interesting.

We all know SOG and CC.com were arguing D2. Reading the three players in ISO, I found a pattern.

chauchaudotcom - Reading in iso the first 6 post are lots of questions towards players but I dont' see any scum hunting thus far... hypocritical coming from her since her vote was still on Ray which was an RVS vote and she hasn't stated any views on who was scum yet.

That's just how I play. In any case, if you note at that time I was in the process of pursuing my suspects. The post right before I was questioning Mindgamer on the actions that I felt were suspicious and in the next post I voted him. If that's not making my view on who was scum clear, I'm not sure what is. Plus, by simply reading my questions for people and how I follow them up, it's pretty easy to figure out who I am suspicious of and why.

And in his next post:

@chauchaudotcom
evilsnail is my leading suspect currently, but I'd really like to see some more posts from him first. Mysterious Mystery Man is slightly suspicious to me, but not for many of the reasons others have put forward as mentioned, and I am looking at you as my third suspect mostly for reasons brought up against you.

And from then on, SOG starts fighting with CC.com.

The fact that you have been asking questions and not following it up with much pointed out by farside22

He admits it was farside22 that started his attack on CC.com.

I'm curious as to why I am more suspect versus farside whos posts I've found to be full... of a lot of stuff I find rather distracting/unecessary.

Starts to criticize farside22.

I don't completely agree with your assessment of farside22. A lot is unnecessary, but that comes with tunneling which isn't specifically scummy, and I don't see her posts as being distracting. Posting things about everyone but not following up is not the same as asking questions and not following up. I don't see you two as doing that in the same way.

Defending her.

Semioldguy - He attacked ythan pretty hard core and McGriddle but doesn't seem to have any imput for the start of the day. I can't say he's been really scum hunting. The biggest case he had was on ythan and question McG.
So far feels under the radar. Needs to start posting more content. Right now null read.

Defending him by bringing up points against him, but dismissing them.

Ah...you misunderstood me. To clarify, I never regarded farside as scummy. I merely pointed out that her posts have a lot of unnecessary stuff in it which distracts me from getting a good read on her because reading through her posts become an exceedingly tedious task. Which may also serves for being a scum shield.

Declares farside22 town. Afterwards, most of SOG's posts are regarding Confucius, although he votes CC.com near the end of the day.

I see a definite pattern here, SOG started attacking CC.com when farside22 gave him the go ahead, and much of their arguments concerned farside22. There is clear defending and buddying between them.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Pie_is_good: It's clear Confucius finds me very scummy, and he's obviously not going to change his mind. So, I'd say it's a given I'm going to be vigged tonight. Therefore, if I am town, it would make no sense for me to be lynched today. If I am lynched, Confucius still has a chance to hit scum and prolong the game. If havingfitz was scum, he'd try to lynch another townie, and win when I'm killed. I know I'm town, so I know havingfitz is town. As for my earlier analysis, well, we have one confirmed scum, so the logical thing to do is to check their interactions with other players. I see a connection with farside22. She is currently my number one suspect.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Pie_is_good: That doesn't make sense. You are suggesting giving control of the game to Confucius? Lynching me is a waste of a lynch, as I am dead anyway. Are you saying that even though you think I'm town, you would lynch me for information? Also, as I just showed, if I flip town, havingfitz is in the clear.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Vote: Pie_is_good

You're scum with farside22.

Allow me to post the full quote I used in my earlier post:

The fact that you have been asking questions and not following it up with much pointed out by farside22

and hitogoroshi.

When did semioldguy make a serious vote D1? When Ythan began attacking RayFrost, his scumbuddy. Who found both farside22 and semioldguy town? Hitogoroshi, in his summaries. Who declared me town when I said it was in scum's best interest to do so? Pie_is_good, who later admitted to wanting me lynched when I started finding fault with farside22.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Willing to switch my vote to farside22 for a lynch. How long until deadline?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Frankly I can see chauchaudotcom/MMM with his back and forth day 2 calling her town to saying she could be scum then day 3 saying he thought it was bussing from the start. Which was a lie.

Where...

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I don't know how those quotes contradict each other. The fifth quote was taken from the middle of an ISO read, when I had yet to make up my mind on the SOG/CC.com issue, and wasn't contradicting the fourth quote, which was the results of my previous ISO read. As for the sixth, I was wrong to say that I said they were busing, but I thought I had mentioned it. Again, all my reads were altered by the kills and claim between D2 and D3, as I'm sure were everyone's.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I would keep my vote on MMM but as I consider Confucius confirmed town and his vote is one of the four required, I’ll join him.

Let me make this clear.

We have over two weeks to get a lynch. Right now, I want you voting

your

top suspect, and

not

simply who you think you are most likely to get a lynch on.

When we get closer to deadline, then we can worry about actually getting a lynch.

I'd say farside22 is my top, but I'm hesitant to put her at L1 without the go-ahead from the rest of you.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I'm still here. I still think Pie_is_good is scum, with farside22 as my best bet for the second one.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Chau can be called my #3.

I'd far prefer a Pie_is_good lynch to a farside22, not sure why exactly, but both hitogoroshi and Pie_is_good replaced during nighttime. So, unless both RayFrost and hitogoroshi requested replacement at that time, that slot is scum. It doesn't look like there's enough support for that wagon though, so I'll likely switch to farside22, who I also regard as very scummy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

*Will not vote farside22 until the replacement catches up.*

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Alternate solution: Lynch chau. Not particularly fond of her after that last move.

I definitely see scum seeking to gain from the situation.

From where I sit, Confucius and havingfitz are as good as confirmed. I see no reason why havingfitz would attack me today if he was scum. Confucius might not vig me tonight, but at the start of the day, it certainly seemed that way. So that leaves CC.com, farside, and Pie. Of those three, I see farside and Pie benevolent toward SOG, whereas CC.com attacked him. I also have scummy reads from those two. Pie's attack on CC.com started when she announced she'd be V/LA, and continues pushing when she replaces out. farside22 sat out most of D2, pushing for the easy evilsnail lynch while claiming both havingfitz and myself were scummy, playing both sides of the argument. This is similar to what she did D1 with Nick and I. They're the only scumteam that makes sense.

Unvote, vote: farside22

I mean, hell. I'm sure she's scum. And if deadline's going to be shortened, we're going to need a lynch quickly. If CC.com's replacement hammers and through some miracle farside22 flips town, Confucius can vig them, and we'll make it to the next day.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

What? This is scummy how?

For the same reasons the evilsnail lynch got so much criticism, it's easy for scum to pick on players who aren't there to defend themselves, and the lynch gets little information.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

So, both of you think that CC.com and SOG were busing D2? What makes you think that?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Because there was no reason for them to get into a big exchange. Normally, busing is done so that you do not look scummy for ignoring a bandwagon on your partner. The only reason I see for them to have gotten into all that is that CC.com expressed suspicion of farside22. Furthermore, there's no "DIE SCUM DIE" in their exchange, at least not from CC.com's side. It's just a lot of back and forth that's really convoluted. That doesn't look like busing to me.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

But neither were expected to flip scum. I don't see any reason for busing.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

IMO, in the unlikely circumstance farside22 flips town, CC.com should be vigged. The most popular scum theories seem to be:

farside22 and Pie_is_good

farside22 and Mysterious Mystery Man

chauchaudotcom and havingfitz

chauchaudotcom and Mysterious Mystery Man

So, if farside22 is town, we should all be able to agree CC.com is scum.

So anyone seen any good movies lately?

I saw the critic tear apart the new Shrek movie. It gives me pause to not see it. Loved the new Iron Man movie but still liked Terance Howard better then what's his name as Tony's friend. The villian in the movie was played perfectly and I'm a sucker for Samn Rockwell.

SCUM DAYTALKING!!!!!!

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Hold on, how do get that I'm scum with Pie? As I see it, the fact that not only has Pie not hammered you, but has actively avoided your lynch this whole time means that either he's scum with you, or he's town.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Yeah... I still like my vote.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Unvote, vote: Pie_is_good

As said before, I'm fine with either. What made you change your mind?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: Check my posts and you'll see that I originally wanted a lynch of Pie_is_good, and declared the both of you most likely scum.

Not that scum ever read anything.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

CC.com is kind of scummy. But I'm more certain of Pie_is_good, and farside22 is the only person who makes sense as a partner.

I'm interested in Confucius' reasoning, is there something I missed?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: Because there's a pattern between the two of you and SOG that stretches beyond D3.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Smooth, Confucius, smooth. The hammer didn't tip you off any?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Ah well, I'm just glad this game is over. Congrats to farside22 and Jeffcole1, the only people beside me to make through the whole game. *whew*

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Ah. So, you admit it. It was personal. Looks like I made the right call about you.

Let's get one thing clear: YOU lost the game. Granted, I'm not about to win any MVP awards, but I had one of the scum pegged, and the other following. If you had done the best thing for the TOWN, instead of your PRIDE, we would've won.

See, what we have here is a conflict of EGO. Mine is HUGE. STAGGERINGLY huge. And I'm not shy about it. Yours is as well. But you also consider yourself a NICE guy. And, in your opinion, all BAD guys, namely me, have to die. And it CAN'T be your fault. I HAVE to have done it to myself. And the most important difference between us? I NEVER LET IT AFFECT THE GAME. The most basic rule of mafia is to play to your win-con. I did just that. Can you say the same?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

You seriously thought that I, as scum, passed up the opportunity to hammer farside for no particular reason? What?

Well, I thought you were scum with farside22. Whoops.

As for newbie games, there's usually around two to four replacements in my experience.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Mysterious Mystery Man, as I have already mentioned, I was undecided between you and farside22 on Night Three. I am currently on a very long roadtrip, and I don't have time to read the game – I just had time to log on and send a quick PM to the mod. It was about a 50/50 in my mind on who to kill.

And then I decided who I would more like to see dead. The answer was you. Your attitude tipped the scales. Perhaps you should take a look at how many townspeople actually thought you were town – the only person who comes to mind is Pie_is_good. Before you go blaming other people for a game loss for a single decision without considering what else happened in the game (like the mislynch on Day One, perhaps), I think you could use some introspection.

I will also say this. I tried to get about six players to replace into this game, and every single one of them declined because of your posts. They were also pretty disgusted with your wiki page. You insulted for me for pretty much no reason, added me to your “hate list” because you apparently did not like the fact that I chose not to fully explain myself (a style I use under this alternate account), and you are quick to react in anger (as evidenced by your past games, your reaction to NickF227's entrance in this game, and your reactions to me over the course of the game).

You are not welcome to play in another game with me, nor in any game I moderate. You are not an enjoyable player. Entwined with your win condition is “have fun” – your play only sucked fun from this game.

You can trust that I played to win. If I were playing from "ego," you would have been dead on Night Two. And if not on Night Two, I sure as Hell would have had you lynched on Day Three.

I'm not surprised. I had you figured out from the start. I know your kind. I've faced thousands like you, and you're all the same. You even admit my 'attitude' was what determined your choice. Do you know what I call that? SUCCESS. I knew you'd only unvote D2 when you found there was nobody following. I knew you'd find another target soon enough. And I even knew you'd vig me in the end. You try to shift the blame, say the game was lost anyway. That's crap, and you know it. farside22 was going to be lynched, and CC.com was going to be vigged. That was what we, as town, had agreed on. But you COULDN'T let it go. You had to be the leader on the bandwagon, so you switched to Pie_is_good just before deadline, knowing town had no choice but to follow you. And rather than vig the person we had all previously agreed was the scummiest, you fufilled your PERSONAL wishes, despite the fact that you were AS GOOD AS DEAD ANYWAY. As for all future games, your feelings are reciprocated. I have no interest in playing with trolls, I get enough practice in my normal life. Just be sure to leave a "tl; dr, I'm taking the high ground and can't be bothered by you, nanana" post after this one. That would make the idiotic troll effect COMPLETE.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Well, it would've been yourself, chau, and havingfitz, who also found chau scummy, so yeah, I'd say we would've won.