Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[WrathChild]

We are jester-like.

Please always vote us before voting someone else, thanks.

p-edit: CHESS GET YOUR VOTE ON US THANKS. YOU TOO GANDALF.

Sure here's a Free-Win. Thanks for playing

I CAST VOTE x13: IceyCupcake

[WrathChild]

Warning: "I'm kinda grumpy today, dudes. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I was having those dreams again. Ya know, how it's just me in a castle and I gotta fight, like, a thousand wizards and the only way to beat them is to punch them as hard as I can in their faces. Then, when I'm done, all their little wizard wives came out and wanted me to have sex with them - which is kinda weird. "

[WrathChild]

2 pages in and we're already taking this way too seriously.

Warning: "I'm kinda grumpy today, dudes. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I was having those dreams again. Ya know, how it's just me in a castle and I gotta fight, like, a thousand wizards and the only way to beat them is to punch them as hard as I can in their faces. Then, when I'm done, all their little wizard wives came out and wanted me to have sex with them - which is kinda weird. "

Hopefully this helps. This quote cracks me up.

[WrathChild]

Seriously, SGR is right. Not enough joking here.

UNVOTE x13, VOTE: Pine

Why so Serious?

[WrathChild]

Not understanding your (quite stupid) schtick is not grounds for ripping off my face.

Vig request retracted, but scum suspicion added on the grounds of overreaction.

Fuck overreaction.

This too.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Gandorf

[WrathChild]

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

I agree with this. I think everyone has a damaging ability, probably some worse than others.

[WrathChild]

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

I want in on this Wagon, I agree with LMP. Throwing out town reads based on nothing is scummy.

UNVOTE, VOTE: SGR

[WrathChild]

Real talk: I wonder how much of this BW is people RL'ing for the sake of a RL, people actually thinking I'm scum, people wanting to see me dead cause I am annoying and people taking this as a chance to go for the easy target.

Why are you "the easy target"?

Hey this looks familiar from when I was scum last game.

[WrathChild]

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

I want in on this Wagon, I agree with LMP. Throwing out town reads based on nothing is scummy.

UNVOTE, VOTE: SGR

Here's my original vote on SGR. Nothing to do with me seeing myself in his shoes or whatever. I saw very valid points made by LMP, primarily baseless town reads (especially on me, when I didn't feel I was being overly towny (still effing around with RVS) at the time)) and breadcrumb hunting. Later (apparently I need to clarify my comment about my play in American Gods), I saw you paint your own back with a big target with the word EASY going across it. This is exactly the strategy I used in American Gods as Mafia. You know, "Oh poor me, I'm such an easy target and scum are picking on me".

I appreciate your defense and efforts, but would appreciate it even more if you scumhunted instead of calling the person with the best points against you, scum. I actually feel like LMP is one of the most town players so far. If you want me to move my vote off you, convince me there's a better place for it.

[WrathChild]

Can't I just already tell you I'm town therefore we don't spend 5 pages determining if I am town or scum?

Okay.

Unvote

Implosion's early play has been bad. He showed up to make a pointless non-scumhunting vote and justified it by saying he's hoping to figure out who is the other head of the Soben hydra. To me this reads like a completely pointless exercise and is obvious coasting through RVS.

Crymeariver's dismissal of the early game is bad, and seems like an excuse to avoid commenting on things, but I also think that his scum-slip could have come from town or scum. Chesskid, what made you think that he is town?

On that note, I think that WrathChild is scummy for not commenting on the scumslip. He posted soon after it was pointed out, and it seems to me like it would have been a natural thing to comment on.

Care to explain which scumslip you're referring to?

[WrathChild]

I forgot to mention that I'm usually off-line on weekends. I haven't caught up after page 12 or so.

[WrathChild]

OK, All caught up. I about to drop my vote on Pine. Meta defense is WIFOM and AtE. Threatening to self-hammer/give up is crap. If you know you're town don't freakin get yourself lynched. Our #1 priority is to kill scum, if you are town and resign yourself to a lynch, you deny your team an opportunity to do so.

Before I drop a vote, I'd like an official vote count.

Also, someone asked me to comment on a Katy slip. I didn't respond because I've never seen past renditions of this game and don't concern myself with flavor for much more than entertainment and still don't really get what the "slip" is supposed to imply.

Finally, a topic-starter (as if we didn't have enough anyway):
-Do you think there are any players with town wincon, but evil alignment?

[WrathChild]

@Beefster
Can you even fail more than you're doing now? You were scummy, post 430 is making everything much worse. Instead of responding to Amrun good reasons about being suspicious about you, you attack her even more with weaker reasons.
-You're accusing her of being defensive, while she's pointing out why you're suspicious to her.
-You mentioned that she has only been focusing on you after your vote, while her vote against Pine came afterwards.
You're just reaching for reasons to keep your vote against her.

@Mana: Your reaction to this post (Post 246) by SGR?

If anything, it shows something against Pine as Pine has also mentioned he doesn't want to be ignored.

@Implosion
Your wallpost is terrible. You mentioned that you were hydra-hunting, because there was little to go on. But in that same post, you agreed with Pine that there was scum on the SGR-wagon, which already existed when you looked at the hydra. This needs an explanation.

Finally, a topic-starter (as if we didn't have enough anyway):
-Do you think there are any players with town wincon, but evil alignment?

Why do you want to know?

To end, I'm not unvoting Pine.

Why are you fishing?

[WrathChild]

I vote for not lynching Pine today.

@Amrun: That was my clever way of telling Mama off when whe asked about why I wanted to know about alignments. In fact the way you spun that little attack on me seems very scummy. You just made your way to the top of my recommended reading list.

[WrathChild]

Well, on my re-read of Amrun, I don't get a scum, now analyzing the cases made against him.

[WrathChild]

Upon my re-read of Beefster, I am not impressed with his case against someone who seems fairly town to me and he appears to have locked in Amrun with out looking elsewhere. Also, I'm always suspicious about people over using FoS (whether or not it's disguised as voting (see ISO #7). ISO #10 just feels like Beefster trying to spark suspicion against someone. I don't see how he can scream for a BW on Amrun, while only FoSing Pine who at the time had made far and away the clearest scummy play of the game.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Beefster

PEDIT: Whoah, Did beef just double vote?

[WrathChild]

@WrathChild: I didn't doublevote. I just didn't feel like unvoting.

I thought the rules required it. Do you hate the rules?

[WrathChild]

But I thought voting two people in the same post was showing scummy backtracking?

Haha, nice Amrun.

[WrathChild]

@SGR: I read your huge wall post, then I read it again. I stopped tunneling (if I ever was in the first place) on you. Did you miss it?

[WrathChild]

Who's stupid effing idea was the claiming game? I say we lynch them. I know SGR advocated, but I have to go back and see where it orginated. Was it ABR?

[WrathChild]

Nope. It originated with SGR and LMP advocated it.

@LMP: Where you being sarcastic when you said that unlimited mislynches is a good thing? When you said SGR's plan was so towny it hurt?

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: "Were" not "Where"

[WrathChild]

Erm.....
WrathChild, the plan is not gonna be followed, because Snow_Bunny said we would be banned for using it, but...
How is the plan bad?
If we lynch a Town, instead of the day skipping to night, we get another lynch.
Meaning: Each day ends with one Scum lynched, at the very least.

No shit we aren't doing the plan because it's a terribad idea. You are trying to justify forced claiming and countless mislynches. Yeah we lynch scum after one "mislynch"... great, but what about after two or three or four. On top of that your threatening our power roles. And on top of THAT, you don't even know if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Maybe Pine had a posting restriction he violated and was killed because of that instead of his claim.

It was an awful and scummy plan and that's why we should lynch you.

UNVOTE, VOTE: SGR

[WrathChild]

if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Of course that's what killed Pine.
Hey, WrathChild, you might want to read the thread slowly and carefully before bothering to share your opinion and/or vote. You are missing obvious details. Either that, or you're just reaching to try to lynch me.

You have no way of knowing what killed Pine. You're trying to outguess the mod.

[WrathChild]

Well, that was extreme. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Theoretically, didn't we just find a way to auto-win this game?
Instead of us actually vote-lynching people, we say "Vote: XXX", if there's a majority, that person is forced to claim his role and be killed.

Unlimited lynches D1. Trollface.jpg

Although I guess that would be cheap, and SnowBunny would probably mod-kill me if I tried to do that.
I was just joking

Oh, that is just the beginning if you ever do that. Really, people, the ones who have played with me before should know how I get trigger-happy when a player breaks one of my rules. Now try to imagine what I would do if someone even tried to break my game.

Btw, I just want to clarify something: a mod-kill is an action from my part to punish a player, usually ones who breaks the rules. A modkilled player will lose the game, regardless of its faction or wincon. However, that's an out-of-the-game kill. There may be certain in-game mechanics that may affect players, ranging from mod-controllable effects to bizarre-immediate-resolving player abilities.

SB pretty much spells it out that it was NOT a mod-kill as a mod-kill would be denoted by a Giant "PINE LOSES" sign. He then proceeds to clarify by saying that certain abilities may have immediate affects.

[WrathChild]

ITT only amrun has eyes.

Perhaps, others feel it isn't best to dwell on things that should not be dwelt upon.

[WrathChild]

@WC: Yes, we might end up having 4 mislynches before a scum lynch...... But couldn't the same thing happen normally? Only if we have four mislynches normally, we probably just lost the game? The point is, we were GUARANTEED to kill one scum per day.

Exactly.
By following the plan, we would have taken away the advantage from Mafia (Being able to kill someone at Night) and would at least guarantee this game would end in 5-6 days.

We would have an unlimited number of tries until we got Scum. The game would go at our pace, too, because Mafia would like, have the right to kill four or five people before losing. Instead of having an equal number of kills as we haev of lynches.

We would need to be total morons to lose the game under those circumstances.

Do you forget that once we lynch scum, they still get NK? Here let me explain how bad of a plan this is in detail:

-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim (Faked)
-No Modkill
-Lynch (Scum)
-Day Ends
-Night Kill
-Rinse Repeat

We just lost 4 town to 1 scum and the process continues until town realize that we're committing suicide. On top of that it's on completely false grounds (assuming claiming=mod-kill).

SB said claiming is a bad idea and I know exactly why. I suspect you do too, but you're playing dumb to try to force claims.

[WrathChild]

First, though you can paraphrase your role pm and make a claim, it is not advised to do so.

[WrathChild]

The above was a SB quote from the rules.

[WrathChild]

But lets label those players A,B,C, and D.

A, B, and C are scummy enough to be mislynches.

D is scum.

So assume that we do it 1 lynch per day.
A
NK
B
NK
C
NK
D
NK

So that loses us 7 townies to 1 scum.

The way he proposed loses us 4 townies to 1 scum. So it would end up saving lives.

The question is, is the game breakable this way. I would tend to say no.

This is a great theory and all but it's totally flawed. This is under the assumption that NOTHING happens over the course of each night to provide us with more information than we hold on Day 1. This is proposterous considering how role-heavy this game is.

It was a terrible and scummy plan.

[WrathChild]

The above was a SB quote from the rules.

You're proving our point.

You're going to have to expand Pine, because apparently I'm not seeing your point. The quote says specifically you CAN claim, but he does not advise it.

The reason he does not advise it is that there are probably abilities/spells connected to specific properties of claims, hence why the plan by SGR is either stupid or role fishing.

[WrathChild]

Okay. If N1 is going to give us SO much info, why are we lynching today? We should all switch to no lynch, right? Because we might mislynch today, but TOMORROW. We'll be SO much better off!

Hell no, we shouldn't no-lynch. I'm saying that:

A) We, under no circumstances, should assume it was Pine Role-Claim = Mod-kill.
B) By pushing that angle, I think SGR was role-fishing.

I had nothing to do with Pine's death, but based on some of my own abilities I could see how claiming the information Pine did, would leave him exposed to certain and possibly immediate abilities.

@Snow Bunny: Are you able to confirm or deny that Pine was Modkilled?

[WrathChild]

to clarify

I have 100% accurate mod given info that Mana is aligned with the sorcerers.

Have a nice day.

Pedit:
FUck off, asshole

Seriously CK? Did this need to be done right now?

[WrathChild]

WrathChild, answer me, how the hell am I rolefishing, you have been busting my balls since the beginning of this day, and your reasoning as gotten shittier and shittier. Next up, you'l vote me because I have two a's in my name.

PEdit: Speaking of Bunnylover, over at my huge Wall-of-Text, I asked something I feel like I should ask again:

Everyone considered Bunnylover town based on his first two posts, what up with that? Not saying he's Mafia, just don't see how anyone would read town from those two posts.

Because you KNOW that Pine's death was NOT a Mod-kill so you were trying to play like it was for your shitty "game-breaking" plan just to force a claim/mislynch.

You seem to push that claiming=death when you know it does not. Your whole plan was based on that deception.

[WrathChild]

I can't believe you SGR. Are you being dense or scummy? If you are just being dense tell me so I can focus elsewhere.

Here something fun from SB's Inventor Mafia (Thanks CK):
"gandalf5166, a mafia goon, has been modkilled on Day 2, and loses the game."

This was a result of:
"NOTE: I'm really starting to get pissed to see so many caps. So cut it. You don't want to see me mad.

gandalf5166 wrote:
UPRISING IS JUST A DUMBFUCK

This was totally uncalled for. I hate when people start insulting each other, and I hate even more when it's without good reasons. "

Does this look like what we saw?

[WrathChild]

You seem to push that claiming=death when you know it does not. Your whole plan was based on that deception.

Not only that, but apparently I know Claiming does not equal Death.
WrathChild, if you know something we don't, just out it, please.

I just proved to you that this was not a mod-kill. Did you even read SB's post I quoted where he said it wasn't?

A modkilled player will lose the game, regardless of its faction or wincon.

-Snow Bunny

Now look in the OP:

24- Pine, a wight (sorcerers) mysteriously dies on Day 1.

-Snow Bunny

Compare that to:

gandalf5166, a mafia goon, has been modkilled on Day 2, and loses the game.

-Snow Bunny (Inventor Mafia)

Therefore, Pine was NOT Mod-killed.

Therefore, Claiming does NOT equal death.

Therefore, you know that claiming does not equal death, but you were pushing for claims anyway.

Therefore, you were role fishing with your plan.

PEDIT:

I don't like how you jump to the conclussion that a a mechanic of the game is is claim=death. I think it is much more likely that Claim provides information and that information allows certain abilities to target certain players based on the claimed information. I find it very likely that Pine was targeted and murdered by another player, not the mod. I don't like that you were trying to spin it like the Mod did it. I find that to be a way of covering tracks.

[WrathChild]

jesus fuckign chrsit

it was a death caused by claiming that was not a mod kill

you are dumb sir

and you should feel bad

You obviously didn't read the post above this one quoted.

[WrathChild]

I'm just very cautious about taking game-flavor as proof of mechanics.

[WrathChild]

Already made a stance on Amrun and had a vote on Beefster before I switched over to SGR again. Try reading my ISO. Do you think I was arguing mechanics with SGR just for fun? No, I legitimately thought it was a scummy/sucky plan and was attacking him for it (scumhunting).

I still don't think it's as obvious that claim=die is a game mechanic as certain people seem to think, but upon my re-read, I'm also not too proud to accept the fact that it may very well be.

I'll re-read Bunny Lover and get back to you on that.

[WrathChild]

After reading Bunny's ISO, I don't see anything particularly scummy, but I also don't see any real effort by Bunny to do anything productive. It's pretty hard to get a read off of 7 posts (let alone 2, like certain people seem to have done in this case).

[WrathChild]

@Katy: The issue that was important to me was that I felt SGR knew that claiming did not necessarily result in death when he devised this plan in order to get people to claim or get mislynched when they don't die as a result of the claim. I thought this because of certain aspects of certain abilities I have that would succeed/fail based on what certain claimed aspects were. Since then, I re-read the quasi-opening post where Vampire McRandom died and am not convinced that I was correct and backed down in post #725.

@CMR: Just trying out a new wagon or do you actually have a reason to vote for me?

@Beef #741: Wait, you are advocating townies that don't read carefully, even admitting to not reading carefully yourself? Heck, I've missed a few things things in this game and gone back and caught them on subsequent passes, but still would never suggest that not-reading carefully is a town-tell. It's your responsibility as town to read carefully. Just take my whole last debate about Pine's death and SGR's plan, I didn't read the vampire death scene carefully because I usually skim flavor and it lead to a huge distraction. Such a distraction is not helpful to town (maybe it will end up providing some sort of info later as a discussion point), I made a mistake. The bottom line is not-reading carefully = bad for town.

@Beef #743: It's quite clear that you're not reading carefully, because in Post #725 I state that I am NOT confident the Claim = Death is not a mechanic.

UNVOTE

[WrathChild]

I probably will, but I wanted to see how he responded ti my post above.

[WrathChild]

@CMR: You say I voted SGR on little reasoning, but did you actually read my reasoning in the post you quoted? I gave more than a little reasoning. Compare that to the reasoning you're using to vote me. I see your reasoning equally weak, but 20 or so pages later when there should be much more information for you to build a case off than I had when I built a case on SGR originally. Yeah I was joking around early on, can't really defend that. However, I'm sure if you actually take the time to read what I've posted, you'll see that I'm at least taking this game seriously now and I did NOT overextend joking longer than I should have.

[WrathChild]

Ok, had to stay home with sick kids today. I caught up and I'm starting to get a bad feeling about the Beefster lynch. I must say though that it's incredibly frustrating when some one like Beefster thinks it's OK just half-ass it all game. I plan on exploring the derail from Beef Wagon to Amrun when I have a bit more time.

Also, that being said I also wanted to propose a plan:

We obviously have a handful of lurkers here. We won't get much information from a lurker lynch, but perhaps we could all make a pact/vote to attack one or more specific lurkers tonight. If we get 5-7 people to attacking the same lurker with their damage attacks, we can have a pretty good chance of killing a lurker and not wasting the information we gain lynching a scummy active player.

The only issue I am not sure about in this plan is if coordinating a combined strike against scum would be easily preventable by the scum faction.

[WrathChild]

Ok, had to stay home with sick kids today. I caught up and I'm starting to get a bad feeling about the Beefster lynch. I must say though that it's incredibly frustrating when some one like Beefster thinks it's OK just half-ass it all game. I plan on exploring the derail from Beef Wagon to Amrun when I have a bit more time.

Also, that being said I also wanted to propose a plan:

We obviously have a handful of lurkers here. We won't get much information from a lurker lynch, but perhaps we could all make a pact/vote to attack one or more specific lurkers tonight. If we get 5-7 people to attacking the same lurker with their damage attacks, we can have a pretty good chance of killing a lurker and not wasting the information we gain lynching a scummy active player.

The only issue I am not sure about in this plan is if coordinating a combined strike against scum would be easily preventable by the scum faction.

I don't think WC has had an original thought all game.

There is a subtle but important difference between the original plan and mine.

I say we lynch active scummy players and mass-attack scummy lurkers. The original plan did not differentiate between scummy actives and scummy lurkers. This is an important difference because lynching active scummies provides us with significant information, while lynching scummy lurkers pretty much leaves us in the dark.

This way we get to eliminate scummy lurkers with out wasting the information we get on a lynch.

[WrathChild]

Beef is bugging me so much.

His content is pretty much:

"I'm lazy"
"I'm Town"
"I'm gonna continue to be lazy town"
"You think I'm scum? YOU ARE!"
"You think I'm town? YEAH ME! TOLD YOU!"

[WrathChild]

Feysal, I voted for the wrong person

Unvote

I was looking to vote VOTE: Dry-Fit but I was reading Feysal last post comment
at the time. The reason being they are far more lurky than me and providing less content.

I find the first day stages really hard to get a handle on anyone, I find I can get more once we get to a flip and the overnights activity, providing I have survived it. What Mason claim Chess? Im also not liking CMAR trying to take on Gandlafs role from he last game either as some form of TL.

I'm going to take this and use it to re-surface the mass-attack lurker plan.

Snake, what the hell do we gain from lynching dryfit when we can just mob him at night? We need to focus on lynching scummy players that will interact with us during the day and pick off lurkers at night with a coordinated group attack.

[WrathChild]

Zdenek: You have just demonstrated to me that you do not read the thread. When asked for my opinoin of you, I went straight from memory because I do read the thread - amazing, right? I remembered being bothered by your "placeholder" SnakePlissen vote that you later tried to justify, but really liking your thoughts that camme with your Pine vote. One good point + one bad point = null. If 0pine had flipped scum, your good points would have outweighed the bad. I said all of this in less words in my other post. Gut leans town on you. Why are you nitpicking my read on you so? You can't know how I arrived at it, and what is more, it doesn't matter at all. Does my play read like someone who is avoiding confrontation? Not at all. As ABR said, I have been aggressive. Please try to make more sense.

I have already answered in very explicit terms why I think Beefster is scum and what bothers my gut to make me think he might be town in a previous post, so I won't do your reading for you.

The fact that you went from memory is not a good excuse for taking what I would call a convenient stance. Couple that with how you are now backing down from your case on Beefster for what seems to me to be a fairly weak (and at least vague) reason, which you refuse to elaborate on, I think it's fair to say that you are avoiding conflict. I don't really care what ABR said earlier.

WC is still bad: now for regurgitating other people's ideas.

I like Soben's second and third points against Implosion.

Are you still not reading?

I explained the difference between my idea and the original one proposed when LMP brought this up earlier.

It's pretty ironic that you'll call me bad for regurgating idea, when that comment towards me itself is purely regurgatated. So much that you didn't even bother to read my response from the FIRST time it was brought up.

[WrathChild]

Still in the Material World

1- CryMeARiver - Town
2- gandalf5166
3- chesskid3 - Town
4- Albert B. Rampage - Town
5- Riceballtail - Lurker
6- Katy - ProbTown
7- Bunnylover -ProbTown/3rd Party trying to get the mod lynched (why not?)
8- IceyCupcake - Town/Who gives a crap if he's a 3rd party
9- Amrun
10- Dry-fit - Somewhat Lurker, but I'm thinking Town still
11- SnakePlissken - Lurker
12- WrathChild - Town
13- Soben - Town (Sounds like a married couple)
14- Beefster - Town
15- PeregrineV - Lurker
16- BabySpice
17- LynchMePls
18- Zdenek - Town
19- Mana_Ku - Town
20- inHimshallibe - ProbTown
21- SGRaaize - Town
22- implosion
23- Feysal

CMR: Can you explain your town read on Zdenek?

[WrathChild]

I explained the difference between my idea and the original one proposed when LMP brought this up earlier.

It's pretty ironic that you'll call me bad for regurgating idea, when that comment towards me itself is purely regurgatated. So much that you didn't even bother to read my response from the FIRST time it was brought up.

I read it, and decided that you were probably making stuff up, since that was certainly the intention of the original plan.

Making stuff up? WTF are you talking about?

Since my theory is that everyone has a damaging spell, I think we can use that to our advantage by NK'ing a scummy player as a group at nightfall.

This doesnt differentiate between lurky and active scummy players, none of the subsequent discussion, until I brought it up, touched on that. In fact I'm willing to bet dollars to cents that once I expanded on ABR's idea you didn't even go back and read the original proposal. On top of that I'm willing to bet you just read LMP's comment and thought you'd regurgitate it yourself.

The fact that you are calling me bad for regurgitating (when I actually expanded on an idea), is a direct contridiction because you yourself are simply regurgating what you read from LMP.

[WrathChild]

My spelling sucks

[WrathChild]

This was the plan I was referring to:

We have to start thinking about damaging abilities this phase. If we agree to do them on the lurkers (aka the list below) I'll move off RBT, because although I'm pretty sure she's scum, I agree we're not going to get a pile of info out of the lynch.

Lurkers that need to die:
Riceballtail
SnakePlissken
PeregrineV

All solid choices for our damaging attacks. Make this happen town, we are NOT LOSING TO LURKERS WHEN ALL OF US HAVE A WAY TO HURT THEM.

Also, the idea that people shouldn't point out scummy things that others are doing because they've been pointed out before is ridiculous.

I stan humbly corrected. Apologies.

[WrathChild]

Beef to Amrun Wagon Shift:

The first non-joke vote on Beef came from Amrun (ISO #12), who begins the push for a Beef-wagon. This push was the reaction to Beef's vote on Amrun for using "Circular Logic". Already this reeks a bit of OMGUS as for pages and pages after his intial vote on Beef, Amrun kept dredging it up again and again.

I (Post #510) was the next person to vote Beef based on his aggressive push for an Amrun wagon (on a pretty weak accusation IMO) over what at the time was an obvious choice in the Pine Wagon as well as over-FoSing.

LMP takes the 3rd vote on the Beef Wagon (Post #617), but provides no reasoning.

Mana Ku comes in with the 4th vote on the Beef Wagon (Post #647), again with no reasoning.

I get off the Beef Wagon and onto the SGR one (Post #659)

CK (Mana's Mason) follows suit and becomes the 4th vote on Beef (Post #684). CK quickly bails on this wagon and votes me.

Baby Spice steps in and takes the #4 spot on the Beef wagon (Post #759), however, unlike CK or Mana, she provides some reasoning.

This is quickly followed by the 5th vote on the Beefwagon by Gandalf (Post #761), no reasoning.

At this point Beef is at 5 and Amrun is at 1 votes. Things shift very quickly from here:

I would consider the first vote on the Amrun Wagon Zdenek's (Post #727), who voted Amrun for an aggressive Null read on him.

Soben takes the #2 spot on the Amrun Wagon (Post #779), but provides no reasoning.

ABR comes in #3 and votes Amrun for attention whoring and the hard push for Beef Votes (Post #783).

Icey jumps on at #4 with "Amrun is annoying" reasoning (Post #792). (

Vote Count Post #841 and #885 Descrepency

)

Beef sees the Amrun Wagon and can't wait to get on as #5 (Post #802).

Soben gets off.

InHim replaces Soben and takes the new #5 spot just for added pressure (Post #877).

ABR gets off.

So at their Peaks we had:

Beef Wagon (5): Amrun, LynchMePls, ManaKu, BabySpice, gandalf5166
Amrun Wagon (5): Zdenek, ABR, Icey, Beefster, inHimshallibe

What's interesting about these two wagons is that nobody hops from one to another, something I'd expect to see done by opportunistic scum. This suggests to me that most likely both or none of these players (Beef/Amrun) are town. Since I doubt (but I've seen it done before) that scum would push so hard on each other at this point, I suspect both are town.

In all honesty, the Amrun wagon just looks like a good old-fashion counter wagon.

[WrathChild]

Yeah, you know what, you're probably right. I guess my thinking was that if there were scum on the beef wagon, they would have jumped to the Amrun wagon once it started. Instead, you see two pretty polarized groups maybe even suggesting the opposite. My brain is still fuzzy from being sick. I basically thought an analysis of the Wagon shift would have shown us something, but I couldn't really pinpoint anything, since I couldn't pinpoint anything I guess I just made an illogical jump.

[WrathChild]

Unvote was the last thing I saw. Though I take it you don't take too kindly to Zdenek.


I need to do a big board.

I don't have a vote out currently. I'm leaning towards beef though. There was something that really bothered me a bit back:

@Beef #741: Wait, you are advocating townies that don't read carefully, even admitting to not reading carefully yourself? Heck, I've missed a few things things in this game and gone back and caught them on subsequent passes, but still would never suggest that not-reading carefully is a town-tell. It's your responsibility as town to read carefully. Just take my whole last debate about Pine's death and SGR's plan, I didn't read the vampire death scene carefully because I usually skim flavor and it lead to a huge distraction. Such a distraction is not helpful to town (maybe it will end up providing some sort of info later as a discussion point), I made a mistake. The bottom line is not-reading carefully = bad for town.

I'm just lazy. I miss details and I really don't care about details.
I'm actually more advocating that scum tends to nitpick- and to nitpick, one must read very closely. I told you it was a stretch.
There's also the other side- the way too lazy to read properly side. That would be me. These people tend to be town, but not always.
Interpret it as you will.

@Beef #743: It's quite clear that you're not reading carefully, because in Post #725 I state that I am NOT confident the Claim = Death is not a mechanic.

Well then. Good to know.

UNVOTE

*applause* Bravo. Good choice. I am town, after all.

The problem is that I didn't even unvote him, I unvoted SGR. I don't know really what to take out of it ATM, but it just rubbed me the wrong way.

I've got to go to lunch, I'll be back later with some more thoughts.

[WrathChild]

@MOD: I'm going to be V/LA over the weekend for holiday stuffs

Unvote

I'll catchup when I'm back.

@Mod: This for me too. I'm gonna be V/LA till Tuesday due to Memorial Day Weekend. I'll try to stay informed (read), but will have little to no time for significant posting.

[WrathChild]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Gandalf

I'll still gladly lynch Am though.

This makes me think RBT and Implosion may be scummates.

I don't think Gandalf is scum, but will do an ISO and related read on him soon.

Over the long weekend I had a bit of a RL crisis and have been only to read/catch up on my crappy WhispNet (Kindle), which is incredibly tough to read on. My post depth is adversely affected by this and I just tonight had time to catch up on the real internet and naturally have a bazillion other things to do with this time.

However, there is something that has been bothering me this whole time I've been slowly crawling through this thread, trying to catch up from the long weekend...

Beefster.

He went from: "Derp! Yeah! I don't have to read and can be lazy! Yeah! Screw actually reading anything carefully!" to a very in depth poster who has detailed theories and reads on different people. This was just over the course of about 4 RL days. It is a huge posting style flip and it bugs me. If we aren't going to lynch him, fine, but I don't like what I'm getting from him.

That being said if we are really narrowing down to RBT, Implosion, or Gandalf I pick RBT.

VOTE: RBT

[WrathChild]

@zdnek: So I was trying to push the beefster wagon and vote someone else in the process? I said it was something that bothered me about beefster and I wanted to note it and probably would have voted if we didn't need to narrow our focus as we are doing. I think beef has been going back and forth to the playstyle that he feels will be best received by the masses. I am not pushing the wagon on him yet, just made an observation. Your misrep is noted.

[WrathChild]

Wow, Beef putting RBT at L-2 and Snake putting RBT at L-1 makes me very nervous about this lynch.

[WrathChild]

NO ONE VOTE UNTIL WE DETERMINE IF VOTES CAN BE CHANGED TODAY. THERE'S A FAIR CHANCE WE CANNOT CHANGE THEM. WHICH WILL PISS US OFF BUT C'EST LA VIE.

Reads and analysis on flips later.

Welcome back as confirmed town RBT.

Why is RBT confirmed town. Is an alignment shift not a possibility?

[WrathChild]

grab dagger

Im not sure what I think about this, On one hand, I considered it to be more town to discuss diplomatically, but on the other hand I could see this as aggressive town running interference.

GG are you still a hydra? If so who?

[WrathChild]

PS
I'll be back at work Monday, so I'll be mostly V/LA until then.

[WrathChild]

It's time for the wizards to strike back. Under siege on their own hideout, the sorcerers must find a way to survive the unexpected and lethal attack from the wizards. Will be the wizards able to destroy once for all the growing threat of the sorcerers? Or will the sorcerers show their superior powers?

Mod:

Snow_Bunny

Back-up mod:

Empking

Status:

Day 2

Still in the Material World

2-

gandalf5166

3-

A Gaggle of Geese

chesskid3

5-

Riceballtail

6-

Katy

7-

Bunnylover

8-

IceyCupcake

10-

Dry-fit

11-

SnakePlissken

12-

WrathChild

14-

Beefster

15-

PeregrineV

16-

BabySpice

17-

LynchMePls

18-

Zdenek

19-

Mana_Ku

20-

inHimshallibe

21-

SGRaaize

23-

Feysal

In a plane far beyond (dead)

Andrius, a

vampire (sorcerers)

, was killed during pregame.
24- Pine, a

wight (sorcerers)

mysteriously dies on Day 1.

5- Riceballtail, a

wight (sorcerers)

is lynched on Day 1.

9- Amrun, a

spellthief (sorcerers)

is killed by a vengeful spirit on Day 1.
22- implosion, a

flameskull (sorcerers)

is found torn in pieces on Day 1.
4- Albert B. Rampage, a

wight (sorcerers)

was destroyed on Day 1.
13- Soben, a

wight (sorcerers)

was found lifeless on Night 1.
1- CryMeARiver, a

blood sorcerer(sorcerers)

was found torn in two on Night 1.

Removed from all existence (removed from the game)

None yet

Ok, I'm transitioning back into work from a long period off, so I just want to talk out loud for a minute and try to get my bearings.

So we lynched RBT (Wight) who vengeful townied Amrun (Spellthief).
-The first thing this tells me is that the theory about Wights being VTs is BS and I plan on investigating that in a bit.

Implosion was a flameskull and torn to pieces during Day.
-I find the method of death to be important clues. We have this confirmed by the vengeful spirit kill on Amrun. So I'm noting the method of murder here.

ABR (wight) was also destroyed Day 1.
-This screams Wizard kill to me. I don't think ABR was particularly threat to the Wizards this early, but he had this feeling of loaming greatness in scumhunting that could have easily drew the attention of scum. He also claimed to have a heavy killing role (ISO #4), which would also scare scum. Interesting that he also flipped Wight, making another stupid-strike for whoever was pushing the Wight = VT theory.

Soben (Wight) was found lifeless Night 1.
-This really feels like the Scum Faction Kill to me, Soben seemed pretty pro-town.

CMAR (Blood Sorceror) was torn in two Night 1.
-Here we are with a method of murder repeat. Implosion was also torn apart during Day 1. I believe the same person that killed Implosion killed CMAR. This leads me to believe there is a SK in this game as Implosion and CMAR don't feel like Town-Vig targets.

I need to read and digest this for a bit.

[WrathChild]

EBWOP:
loaming = looming

[WrathChild]

I've narrowed the possible scum down to:

7- Bunnylover
11- SnakePlissken
14- Beefster
16- BabySpice
17- LynchMePls
18- Zdenek
20- inHimshallibe
21- SGRaaize
23- Feysal

Snake, inhim and SGR are bruised. Beef is dying. This means no lynching Beef IMO, but I'd still be open to lynching any of the bruised players, particularly snake.

[WrathChild]

why isn't Katy scum?

She could be, I took her off the list because I believe she soft-claimed/breadcrumbed something in a non-scum way. I could be wrong. I'm currently going through ISOs of the above suspects.

[WrathChild]

why isn't Katy scum?

She could be, I took her off the list because I believe she soft-claimed/breadcrumbed something in a non-scum way. I could be wrong. I'm currently going through ISOs of the above suspects.

You know what, I just read Bunny and am replacing Bunny with Katy. It was Bunny who brought up the point in question.

[WrathChild]

@WC- I like all your postings regarding kill analysis and such.
So are we going on the fact that the only town-killed-town is Amrun? Isn't 4 scum kills a night like way too many?

Only 2 were night kills. The rest were day kills. I suspect that many people have killing abilities, but not that many can do it very often. I suspect we'll see significantly less Day Kills today, but maybe a couple extra night kills due to beatings.

While I have your attention. What do you think about RBT?

[WrathChild]

I've narrowed the possible scum down to:

7- Bunnylover
11- SnakePlissken
14- Beefster
16- BabySpice
17- LynchMePls
18- Zdenek
20- inHimshallibe
21- SGRaaize
23- Feysal

Snake, inhim and SGR are bruised. Beef is dying. This means no lynching Beef IMO, but I'd still be open to lynching any of the bruised players, particularly snake.

Interesting. I thought threw a 4 damage spell at Baby Spice. It must have been blocked/commuted.

*Argh* I was probably roleblocked... or Baby Spice is undead. My spells don't affect undead.

Interesting info, saving it up for later.

His action hit another target.

Since I am racking up pseudo-votes and now have one seemingly unchangeable real vote with nothing I can actually respond to, and nothing much is happening, let me make things a little more explicit.

Last night I targeted Amrun. My action hit RBT instead.

It should be pretty clear what I did.

I don't know what Bunnylover did, so I don't know if it was universal or how it worked, but if you targeted someone and it doesn't seem like they got hit, that's why. Bunnylover messed with actions, and they also have admitted it so I doubt they are scum. As WratchChild pointed out, it's not likely scum would alert people to that kind of a night action. So, Icey, if part of your concern about me is that you tried to damage me and I didn't get damaged, that would explain it.

Updating:
I've narrowed the possible scum down to:

-Bunnylover
-SnakePlissken
-Beefster
-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal
-Peregrine

I though Peregrine breadcrumbed what Katy just claimed. I'm pretty sure Katy just confirmed herself town, unless reviving = recruiting. I'll BRB with something.

[WrathChild]

Also, I think bunnylover should be taken off my list leaving:

-SnakePlissken
-Beefster
-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal
-Peregrine

I feel like Bunnylover gave a redirect heads-up and confirmed it again before Katy admitted to being redirected. I doubt scum would do that.

[WrathChild]

-SnakePlissken:
ISO #1: Comment about leaving RVS feels insincere. Breadcrumbs then later denies it. RVS votes CK/AGOG, then votes Soben (NKed town)
ISO #2: Denies bad breadcrumb.
ISO #3: Complains about Caps Lock
ISO #4: V/LA announcement
ISO #5: Acts as if he's concerned about hammering Pine when Pine was at L-6. Seems like a "I'm trying to act town concerned" post.
ISO #6: First, slightly defends Beef and CK/AGOG, then gives several reads:
-CMR Town (SKed Night 1 IMO)
-SGR Weird (Interesting comment)
-Gandalf Uneasy (He votes Gandalf over current Bus on Beefster)
-RBT (Town) Null
ISO #7: Votes Feysal
ISO #8: Unvotes Feysal and Votes Dry-Fit for lurking, which is funny coming from a lurker.
ISO #9: Announces V/LAs and votes Katsuki (no reason) and complains we haven't lynched yet (which I felt was a good thing at the time).
ISO #10: Votes Soben (Mafia NK IMO) for taking the lead in the game (another thing I find very towny and positive).
ISO #11: Reinforces ISO #10
ISO #12: Gives null on Peregrine and RBT (who was well on his way to lynchville), then gives the old poor me, Amrun (town) is trying to mislynch a lurker comment. This is interesting because he calls himself a lurker which I find fundementaly different than a "Light Poster". The label "Lurker" implies that they could in fact post more but choose not to. Then reinforces ISO #10 AGAIN.
ISO #13: MetaBlah
ISO #14: Tries to argue that the 3 leading wagons (Gandalf, Implosion (SKed Town IMO) and RBT (Town)) are possibily all scum. Which is interesting because I'm pretty sure they're all town.
ISO #15: Votes RBT, knowing it puts him at L-1 which is incredibly odd considering ISO #5 when he didn't want to "Mis-Hammer at L-6"
ISO #16: State obvious about Day and Night actions
ISO #17: Worthless Twilight comment is worthless
ISO #18: Speculates the inability to unvote
ISO #19: Announces V/LA
ISO #20: Promises post back from V/LA
ISO #21: Places vote to "confirm" that we can't unvote, which was already confirmed by AGOG. As pointed out by Icey this is incredibly scummy and seems like an easy ticket to Not-Participating Station.

Based on all that I feel pretty darn comfortable confirming that I punched Snake yesterday and think he should probably be the lynch today. Zero actual scumhunting, contridicting vote reasoning (ISO #5 and ISO #15), arguing that all 3 wagons yesterday could be scum (2 of 3 confirmed town and I'd be surprised if the 3rd was scum), over announcing V/LA (I unintnentionally did this when I was scum in American Gods because I was concerned with being labeled a lurker), admits to lurking, but votes people for lurking, etc.

FOS: Snake

[WrathChild]

I attacked Snake during Day 1.

[WrathChild]

If he punched me and it did damage, that would be very interesting to me. ANyone else who attacked me, want to own up? I need to know.

My fake-claim senses are starting to tingle.

[WrathChild]

AGOG,

Why does a scum player admit to rearranging night actions when no one in thread seems aware of it and are basing their analyses on who they think was targeted at night?

I don't really see Bunnylover as scum given that fact.

This.

[WrathChild]

Also, I think bunnylover should be taken off my list leaving:

-SnakePlissken
-Beefster
-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal
-Peregrine

I feel like Bunnylover gave a redirect heads-up and confirmed it again before Katy admitted to being redirected. I doubt scum would do that.

ISO on Snake is done.
Beef is going to die regardless.
Peregrine is going to die regardless.

This leaves:

-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal

I'm gonna look at Baby spice (Sidenote: My Ex-Grilfriend looked like Baby Spice).

[WrathChild]

Also, I noticed RBT was bruised meaning that it was either a condition of revival or non-town attacked RBT last night.

[WrathChild]

I just noticed I didn't start at 0 for my Snake ISO list:

Baby Spice, ISO:
ISO #0: Promises Content
ISO #1: Pretty weak reasoning for getting on the Pine (Town) Wagon, says CMAR (town) is town, SGR is Null, then makes a slight jab at ABR (town).
ISO #2: Kind of backs down on Pine (Town), but no Unvote. Sides with Amrun (town)
ISO #3: Agrees to do the Icey Pre-Vote
ISO #4: Icey Pre-Vote and back to Pine (Town)
ISO #5: Votes Beef for making a crappy case on Amrun (Town)
ISO #6: Lays into Beef, makes good points IMO
ISO #7: See ISO #6
ISO #8: Suggests the Claimer Killer is an Item, calls for more Icey Pre-Votes
ISO #9: Expands on ISO #8
ISO #10: Votes Zdnek for opportunistic attacks and backs off Beef, calling him Bad town. This post worries me a bit, but I need more flips to read this properly.
ISO #11: Questions the Mason alignment
ISO #12: Votes RBT (Town) for suspecting a second scum team, but says the "2nd teams" were historically a non-scum 3rd party, but votes RBT (Town) anyway because she suspects that he is part of the "2nd team" which she just described as non-scum.
ISO #13: Continues to argue that 2nd is not scum.
ISO #14: MetaBlah
ISO #15: Accuses ABR (Town) of Sheeping her on the Beef and Zdnek case, but not the RBT (Town) case
ISO #16: Calls Beef a fencesitter
ISO #17: Accuses CMAR (Town) of chainsawing
ISO #18: See ISO #16, suggests RBT is 3rd party
ISO #19: More beef with Beef about the Fencesitter comment
ISO #20: Votes Zdnek for pushing points that have already been addressed and thanks ABR (Town) for sheeping her.
ISO #21: Mocks Beef's OMGUS case against her
ISO #22: More Back and Forth about the Zdnek case
ISO #23: See ISO #22
ISO #24: Says that as far as she knows, no one damaged her last night in response to Beef asking the thread that very question.
ISO #25: Explores the voting/unvoting restriction issue
ISO #26: Leans town on SGR, backs off Beef and FoS Zdnek for ambiguous posts. Believes AGOG and Mana are town masons, says Snake and DryFit are FoSable
ISO #27: Gets back at Zdnek case for trying to get people to vote when it was already confirmed un-unvote day.
ISO #28: Asks me if I realize that beef's targeting makes him town.

Overall, I think we should NOT be lynching Baby Spice today. There were a couple posts that worried me (ISO #10 and #12-13), but overall I feel pretty confident saying that Baby Spice is town, at least until we see some more flips.

[WrathChild]

It looks like he soft claimed undead, also note:
-Wights appear to be the VTs of this game- and thus are common
-Wights are undead
-My spells don't hurt undead
-The flavor of my role implies that there are NO UNDEAD WIZARDS.
-Therefore if I attack PeregrineV and no damage occurs, he is confirmed town. If he ends up dying, no real loss: He's a lurker/anti-town.

If someone is a watcher/similar role, he can check on Peregrine to confirm that I was the only person that targeted him.

@Beefster-Uh, no.

@Feysal- I do better later in game, esp. big ones (like Cold War). I also do better on the weekdays while I mix business with mafia at work.
The important message was whoever hit me sucks. It's important they understand how slimy they are.

So Peregrine just admitted to not being undead?

[WrathChild]

@WC- I am not undead.

So you do realize that when Beef attacks you, you will die? So can we get some effort out of you until then?

[WrathChild]

Isn't the redirect of Katy by Bunny pretty much confirmed as occuring unless this is some elaborate scum-gambit (which would be pretty stupid considering they are unscathed as of now).

Bunny, was your ability a Mass-Redirect?

[WrathChild]

I'm not unholy, and I'm not a Wizard.

[WrathChild]

PS, this also leads me to believe Snake is Undead, and I think Undead are town, so:

UnFOS: Snake

[WrathChild]

Also, I think bunnylover should be taken off my list leaving:

-SnakePlissken
-Beefster
-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal
-Peregrine

I feel like Bunnylover gave a redirect heads-up and confirmed it again before Katy admitted to being redirected. I doubt scum would do that.

ISO on Snake is done.
Beef is going to die regardless.
Peregrine is going to die regardless.

This leaves:

-BabySpice
-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal

I'm gonna look at Baby spice (Sidenote: My Ex-Grilfriend looked like Baby Spice).

OK, so now I don't think BabySpice or Snake need to die today.

Moving on:

LMP is next for ISO

[WrathChild]

I was just notified that I was roleblocked last night... ahem, I mean my action did not succeed.

[WrathChild]

Did you guys miss that I ended up eating the Roleblock?

[WrathChild]

So did I WC.

You were roleblocked as well?

[WrathChild]

Beef, do you mind recapping your claimed information please?

[WrathChild]

Now that I think about it, it would kind of make sense as the flavor Day 1 suggessted that claiming would be punished. Day 2 the flavor implied that we can not change votes.

Vote Count Please?

[WrathChild]

Remember that plan I talked about?
We're basically doing it now, lolololol

Things are getting desperate, but I think we're right at least on this one.

FoS: DryFit

Why FoS the guy that's going to be replaced shortly. I believe a replacement for him has already been requested.

FoS: SGR

Also WTF Snake!? It was painfully clear you were town, why the hell would you suicide!? If we lose this game its going to be because dumb town keeps doing stupid things like claiming. PLEASE NO MORE DUMB CLAIMING!!!!!

[WrathChild]

Remember that plan I talked about?
We're basically doing it now, lolololol

Things are getting desperate, but I think we're right at least on this one.

FoS: DryFit

Why FoS the guy that's going to be replaced shortly. I believe a replacement for him has already been requested.

FoS: SGR

Also WTF Snake!? It was painfully clear you were town, why the hell would you suicide!? If we lose this game its going to be because dumb town keeps doing stupid things like claiming. PLEASE NO MORE DUMB CLAIMING!!!!!

Snake obvious town?
What post(s) made you think that?

The fact that it was quiet apparent that he was undead, and I believe undead are town. I'm not saying only undead are town, but I don't think there are Undead Wizards. You can look back to when I Un-FoSed Snake.

[WrathChild]

I'm very close to a vote on SGR. The double edged sword here is that he is very active, that is good because so many aren't, bad because that means I have to read more to make sure it's the right choice.

Voting inactive players is stupid-dumb when we have a perfectly good way of dealing with them by mass beatings. The whole point of lynching people is to gauge how the other players act during the lynching process. I'd be fine picking off inactives at night, but for crying out loud lets lynch someone who we can get some flippin reads off of.

[WrathChild]

After going back and re-reading Day 1. I'm gonna back off my push on SGR. That leaves me:

-LynchMePls
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-Feysal

SGR, what do you think about LMP/Feysal?

[WrathChild]

Of all the current wagons I llike Zdnek the best. Speaking of which, when was the last time he posted?

[WrathChild]

FOS: Snake

Limited access for the next two weeks, if it's too bad, I'll replace out.

Do I like to answer my own questions?

Yes.

[WrathChild]

Why is Zdnek OBVTown?

[WrathChild]

Ok, I'm getting on the Surye Wagon. He's replaced in and made no effort.

UNFOS

FOS: Surye

[WrathChild]

Surye ISO:

#1: Says he's caught up and promises anaylses. Likes Snake Wagon-Town (Flavor of the Day). The interesting part here is that he cites me and Icey as having a good case on Snake. This feels like a, "Oops he was town, blame wrath and Icey" set up to me.
#2: Promises his fabled analyses again
#3: OOPS! My draft disappeared! Oh well, can anyone hold my hand? FoSes Snake-Town for a typo, then gets all mushy about Bunnylover's mistake.
#4: Oops, my bad again. I'll just continue to post nothing enough just not to get mod-replaced/killed.

Surye's play today has been full of nothing but luncheon meat.

I'm going to go back and look at LMP, who he replaced. That should prove much more difficult.

[WrathChild]

Fair warning of advice.
Actions used last night aren't to be trusted.
Thank you and have a pleasant day.

I just don't see why Scum would even bother mentioning this.

VOTE: Surye

[WrathChild]

I'm V/LA until the 5th.

[WrathChild]

How about SGR voting for the guy that just got replaced?
How about?

Not voting (5): Bunnylover, IceyCupcake, Vaya, Surye, Spyrex

Let's look at this. Surye was at L-1 and we ended up no-lynching with 5 people not voting. This sucks.
Bunnylover... No flipping excuse
Icey... Attempted to vote but was not counted (Voteblocked?)
Vaya... Replaced in minutes before day ended, excused
Surye... Not going to lynch self, excused
Spyrex...Replaced in minutes before day ended, excused

This brings up a couple interesting issues:
#1: Icey was voteblocked
#2: Bunnylover didn't want to lynch Surye

I don't think either of these give a clear read to alignments as of now, but they are note-worthy.

[WrathChild]

It's time for the wizards to strike back. Under siege on their own hideout, the sorcerers must find a way to survive the unexpected and lethal attack from the wizards. Will be the wizards able to destroy once for all the growing threat of the sorcerers? Or will the sorcerers show their superior powers?

Mod:

Snow_Bunny

Back-up mod:

Empking

Status:

Day 2

Still in the Material World

2-

gandalf5166

3-

A Gaggle of Geese

chesskid3

5-

Riceballtail

6-

Katy

7-

Bunnylover

8-

IceyCupcake

10-

Dry-fit

11-

SnakePlissken

12-

WrathChild

14-

Beefster

15-

PeregrineV

16-

BabySpice

17-

LynchMePls

18-

Zdenek

19-

Mana_Ku

20-

inHimshallibe

21-

SGRaaize

23-

Feysal

In a plane far beyond (dead)

Andrius, a

vampire (sorcerers)

, was killed during pregame.
24- Pine, a

wight (sorcerers)

mysteriously dies on Day 1.

5- Riceballtail, a

wight (sorcerers)

is lynched on Day 1.

9- Amrun, a

spellthief (sorcerers)

is killed by a vengeful spirit on Day 1.
22- implosion, a

flameskull (sorcerers)

is found torn in pieces on Day 1.
4- Albert B. Rampage, a

wight (sorcerers)

was destroyed on Day 1.
13- Soben, a

wight (sorcerers)

was found lifeless on Night 1.
1- CryMeARiver, a

blood sorcerer(sorcerers)

was found torn in two on Night 1.

Removed from all existence (removed from the game)

None yet

Ok, I'm transitioning back into work from a long period off, so I just want to talk out loud for a minute and try to get my bearings.

So we lynched RBT (Wight) who vengeful townied Amrun (Spellthief).
-The first thing this tells me is that the theory about Wights being VTs is BS and I plan on investigating that in a bit.

Implosion was a flameskull and torn to pieces during Day.
-I find the method of death to be important clues. We have this confirmed by the vengeful spirit kill on Amrun. So I'm noting the method of murder here.

ABR (wight) was also destroyed Day 1.
-This screams Wizard kill to me. I don't think ABR was particularly threat to the Wizards this early, but he had this feeling of loaming greatness in scumhunting that could have easily drew the attention of scum. He also claimed to have a heavy killing role (ISO #4), which would also scare scum. Interesting that he also flipped Wight, making another stupid-strike for whoever was pushing the Wight = VT theory.

Soben (Wight) was found lifeless Night 1.
-This really feels like the Scum Faction Kill to me, Soben seemed pretty pro-town.

CMAR (Blood Sorceror) was torn in two Night 1.
-Here we are with a method of murder repeat. Implosion was also torn apart during Day 1. I believe the same person that killed Implosion killed CMAR. This leads me to believe there is a SK in this game as Implosion and CMAR don't feel like Town-Vig targets.

I need to read and digest this for a bit.

So we had another torn apart kill, which I suspect is the SK (See above). This is hugely significant because we are lacking the second kill. Guess what? I protected someone last night. Guess what else? That person's life was specifically threatened yesterday.

[WrathChild]

That's all you have to say right now?

[WrathChild]

This badwagon on Gandalf sucks. Guess what? When I saw Spyrex threaten to kill him yester-twilight I decided I'd protect Gandalf and see what we're left with... Missing scum-faction kill in my opinion.

VOTE: Spyrex

Claimed Mason my ass.

[WrathChild]

PS, Wizards don't tear in two. They use magic to kill things, not force. Flavor speculation is only speculation.

[WrathChild]

Typo intentional.

I protected you from everything BUT damage.

[WrathChild]

Ready to do this Gaggle?

[WrathChild]

How did Katy confirm you?

[WrathChild]

Hope that didnt cost your trigger happy ass too much.

[WrathChild]

Now that you got that out of your system, let's talk here.

[WrathChild]

Hey everybody, Gaggle like killing Town Doctors.

Can we call BS on the Masons claims yet?

[WrathChild]

What Oath?

[WrathChild]

Did you miss the part where I protected Gandalf from your "Mason" buddy and walla we're missing a Night Kill?

[WrathChild]

No because Twilight actions result in day-kills. Also, I am following the Oath.

[WrathChild]

Thanks for confirming that Spyrex tried to kill Gandalf BTW.

[WrathChild]

So you're trying to guide the Doc, after you tried to kill him?

Oh hey and guess what, the mass-redirect counters any confirmation you "supposedly" have from Katy.

[WrathChild]

If Katy had any targeting ability that would be able to confirm masons, she would have no idea who she targeted because of the Mass Redirect. So I could be a confirmed mason for all she knew.

[WrathChild]

UNVOTE: Spyrex

Damage evidence indicates non-scum. Were you (the Masons) responsible for any of the night 1 deaths?

[WrathChild]

OK, returning to my lynch list:
-BabySpice
-Surye
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal

[WrathChild]

Feysal, not undead (At least how I would catagorise undead) but not alive either.

I'm hunting someone. I wont say who, beacaue I don't want to warn them, but given fluff, I believe the person I'm hunting is anti-town.
I can investigate to find that person.

N1, my investigation got redirected to Mana-Ku. This was specified in the result. (I tried to target Beefster)
N2 my investigation was redirected to Katy. This again was specified in the result. (I tried to target SGR)
Twilight1 and T2 investigations went though on the targets I tried for. This again was specified. (Neither Feysal nor Inhim were the person I am looking for. imo this has no bearing on their roles/alignments)


N2 we got mass redirected again. (Sorry Icey, it turns out that I'm immune to your roleblock, hence my questions
Plus side though, Icey goes into the town pile.)


Which makes me think that Katy wore two night actions that were directed at other people. An insta kill and the removal.


Why do this? Must admit to spending a bit of time thinking about. I think the sorcerors need to know that the redirect happened. (Besides, if they keep dieing like this, I'm worried the game will end before I find my target)

I also like how this UN-Varifies Gaggle's Confirmedness.

[WrathChild]

Baby Spice feels like she's setting up a fake-claim here.

[WrathChild]

Now we're getting somewhere Gaggle.

Of those people, Peregrine will die unless I do anything about it. Take him off your list.

I'd like to give Vaya another Day being that I don't like holding replacements accountable for their predecessor's inactivity.

I'd like to take Bowser (CLS) off the list because I want to at least hear what he has to say.

That leaves us with the same list of people that we'd be happy lynching. That makes me feel a bit better about your towness.

[WrathChild]

You are referring to this, I guess?

No, in fact it was this, from Surye's last post:

...and my player slot was played so poorly before I got it...

Now, there were some people who found LMP suspicious, but I find accusing him or playing poorly to be totally uncalled for. I have no idea what Surye is talking about here, but clearly he thinks there is something bad about his slot's play, which is exactly what the Amished tell is about.

I have seen the Amished tell fail before, but this time I'm not seeing any of the warning signs from that occasion. This is pretty much the strongest scum tell I've picked up so far. In fact...

Unvote: Zdenek
Vote: Surye

This is a great find by Feysal IMO. Crap, the only thing Surye had going for him was that people thought that LMP played fairly town. But instead Surye skims the thread and catches the points where people mentioned suspicion on LMP and gets defensive about it by saying that LMP played poorly, when in fact LMP had given a lot of people a town impression and that in its self was probably what saved Surye in the first place.

I'm about to vote Surye, but I want to check something first:

@Snow Bunny: The no lynch was reached yesterday as a result of no majority reached by deadline correct?

[WrathChild]

Alliright, let's try this again:

Vote: Surye

See my previous post if you need explanation.

[WrathChild]

Mafia: 4/0/0

That's right, bitch, if I'm Mafia, you already lost

GG...
Who else was on your team?

You guys played flawlessly.

[WrathChild]

Can someone please explain what's going on here?

SGR, Jester? Unlynchable? Idiot?

[WrathChild]

Bullets over Nooses?

[WrathChild]

Here's what's bugging me. If SGR was scum and he thought they won by no-lynch, that means that of our 15 permanent players (assuming Bowser is temporary as suggested), one successful night kill, puts us at 14, that means there needs to be 7 scum. That seems a bit high doesn't it?

[WrathChild]

OK, time out. I'm all for SGR dying, but as I pointed out earlier him thinking they won does not add-up. Can one of the veterans here please tell me if 7 seems to be a bit high for a scum team considering what we have of 3rd party claims?

[WrathChild]

OK Soultion time:

1) We attack Peregrine until he's dead today
2) We Vig SGR tonight
3) We lynch Surye like he should have been lynched yesterday.

[WrathChild]

Well 2 should be before three, but I don't think a Surye flip will tell us much about SGR's alignment.

[WrathChild]

Well 2 should be before three, but I don't think a Surye flip will tell us much about SGR's alignment.

EBWOP: Three before two

[WrathChild]

Oh no! No more long posts from Surye!

Anyways, I'm disappointed in the lack of effort going on here. I'm going to be right back with something.

[WrathChild]

Come on guys, I'm happy you're making my job easier, but lay some votes! Lemme see da action! You know, it really can't be

that

bad, can it?

This annoys me to no end. You mess with the basic functioning of the game by disallowing unvotes and then complain when we don't want to vote? That is absurd.

Replace me out please. I have no patience for this game. Have fun everyone.

In case there was any question why he replaced out.

[WrathChild]

OK, returning to my lynch list:
-BabySpice
-Surye
-Zdenek
-inHimshallibe
-SGRaaize
-Feysal

Ok, I'm taking SGR off this list because he should be vigged tonight.

-Babyspice: My last ISO search on her had me leaning town and since then basically claimed non-threatening 3rd party, so I'm taking her off the list for now.

-Surye: Should have been lynched yesterday, but what reall bothers me is that everyone was so sure LMP was town, but as soon as some suspicion was brought up on LMP, Surye overreacted and claimed that LMP played bad, when he did not. This sounds pretty scummy to me and that is why my vote is probably gonna stay on him.

-Zdenek: I just have a huge gut feeling that Zdenek is scum, but I need to dig into this more. His defense of SGR seemed odd and he is really playing up the possibility of our night actions not being able to be trusted. He also seems very content to just let town lull itself to death at this point as well.

-inHimshallibe: I need to look into him more,

-Feysal: I need to look into him more.

[WrathChild]

I don't think we should lynch SGR ever. His stupid Scum-Claim reeks of Jester Win-con. He needs to die by bullet. I'll put dollars to cents that his "confirmation plan" fails and we are just forced to lynch him tomorrow.

[WrathChild]

What kind of Town claims frickin scum as a "Joke"?

[WrathChild]

WrathChild, I still want to know why you think Vaya is town.

I am okay with SGR's plan, and I don't think anyone else should claim undead for Vaya (if RBT is alive, we have confirmed town in SGR, and if not, we have dead scum from her vengeful kill).

And I still want to know why you think I think Vaya is town. Quote please. You won't dig one up because it doesn't exist. Should you continue to misreprent it would make my job of building a strong case on you a lot easier.

[WrathChild]

Votecount

2- gandalf5166

[Healthy]

(0) -
3- A Gaggle of Geese

[Healthy]

(0)
5- Riceballtail

[Bruised]

(0)
7- Bunnylover

[Healthy]

(0) -
8- GreyICE

[Healthy]

(0) -
10- Vaya

[Healthy]

(2) - Zdenek, BabySpice
12- WrathChild

[Healthy]

(0)
15- PeregrineV

[Bleeding]

(1) - SGRaaize
16- BabySpice

[Healthy]

(0)
17- Surye

[Healthy]

(3) - PeregrineV, Feysal, WrathChild
18- Zdenek

[Healthy]

(0) -
19- SpyreX

[Bleeding]

(0) -
20- inHimshallibe

[Bruised]

(0)
21- SGRaaize

[Bruised]

(6) - SpyreX, inHimshallibe, Bowser, GreyICE, gandalf5166, Riceballtail
23- Feysal

[Healthy]

(0)
25- Bowser

[Healthy]

(0)

Not voting (4): Bunnylover, Surye, Vaya, AGOG

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline is on July 27th at midnight (GMT -5)

You know what? I don't like my company on the Surye lynch, count me out.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Zdenek

[WrathChild]

Do you want to go back and read this game or do you want to continue to ask me questions I've already answered?

[WrathChild]

Now we're getting somewhere Gaggle.

Of those people, Peregrine will die unless I do anything about it. Take him off your list.

I'd like to give Vaya another Day being that I don't like holding replacements accountable for their predecessor's inactivity.

I'd like to take Bowser (CLS) off the list because I want to at least hear what he has to say.

That leaves us with the same list of people that we'd be happy lynching. That makes me feel a bit better about your towness.

That was hard. Do you know you can use the Search by Poster option at the bottom of the page?

[WrathChild]

He was about to be replaced.

[WrathChild]

Since I think anyone with half a brain will figure this out, no point on avoiding this. How about we lynch fucking Wizards!!!!!! Everyone continuing to push Vaya's lynch is obviously scum or dumb. A lynch on Vaya is basically a victory for scum. The people pushing for a Vaya lynch do so because they fear the Adventurer group as a group of Serial Killers. Really? Come on.

Guess what? I'm an adventurer too. I get points for healing and protecting people. I got points last night. We won't be lynching Vaya today.

[WrathChild]

PS, Baby Spice is not our alignment. In fact, I don't there is another non-scum alignment besides ours, unless there is an SK.

VOTE

: BabySpice

[WrathChild]

I mean:

VOTE: Babayspice

[WrathChild]

Gosh DARNIT!!!!

UNVOTE, VOTE: Babyspice

[WrathChild]

Why would you even say that? You were the main arguer that a SK existed, you argued flavor, you argued everything and you were the first to put that idea on the table.

I was hammering home the point. Not questioning it.

[WrathChild]

I think it would be adventageous to keep the total number of the Adventurer Party Hidden.

[WrathChild]

um sk ISN'T A PRIORITY.

are you guys responsible for any of the kills/damage?

The only person I damaged ever was Beef. The rest of my time has been spent protecting people.

[WrathChild]

The problem with lynching PV is that someone can just punch him and he'll die. I'd rather not waste a lynch on that.

[WrathChild]

Undead = Sorcerers

Not necessarily true.

[WrathChild]

Spyrex, do you still plan on killing Gandalf?

[WrathChild]

How did you plan on using RBT to clear yourself as OBV Town?

[WrathChild]

Wait, so you win with points or with a survivor wincon? If it's with points what the fuck does it matter with town vs. scum numbers?

Vaya FAILED at running this points to win gambit, outed the whole team, and now they're trying to get us to look away lolololol.


BTW, not a bad guy. Fuckall if I can prove it, I just take chunks of life out of people if I choose.

What do you say about taking out PV today via attack not lynch?

[WrathChild]

Also, the points thing is a combination of survivng and total in endgame. We lose points if people die.

[WrathChild]

BTW Our Wincon does not preclude any other wincon, so WTF does it matter if we win. Town AND Scum should be Pro-Adventurers, Town more-so than scum because town is already pretty much screwed. In fact, so much so that I'm pretty sure anyone voting an Adventurer must be scum.

Town has NO chance of winning with out the adventurers help.

So instead of actually trying to find scum, Zdenek is content to lynch a third party just on the premise that it MIGHT be an awkward situation in endgame?

Seriously, do you just want to claim scum now or do you want to try to keep up the charade? I am 85% CERTAIN Zdenek will flip scum and Babyspice SK. So the question is do we want to try to knock-off the SK or part of the scum team?

I'm tempted to see if we can leash Babyspice.

UNVOTE, VOTE: Zdenek

BabySpice, what do you say? Can we count on you to do as the town/adventurers wish?

[WrathChild]

Ok, I'm all happy and such to see Peregrine dead, but wouldn't it be better to lynch Zdenek and have iminhim kill Peregrine today. I'm sure as hell not going to heal him. In fact, I'd be more than happy to heal spyrex tonight if he'll stop trying to kill my homie.

[WrathChild]

@Feysal: While you did peg me as 3rd party you did so under false assumptions. I physically attacked Snake, I did not attempt to heal him, apparently he could only be damaged by healers or whatever.

@Zdenek: Did it ever occur to you that my attempt to leash Baby Spice was a gambit to get her to claim SK when she had not done so yet?

[WrathChild]

So yeah, we beat Peregrine to death today, Gandalf can do it, Baby Spice can do it, Spyrex can do it. Frankly I don't care who does it, we aren't lynching him. We lynch one of the remaining scumbags, then someone kills SGR tonight. Everyone is happy.

[WrathChild]

L-2 by my count, let's do this.

[WrathChild]

Just hammer him, claiming won't do anything but result in a mod-kill. Each person has what, six abilities, what's claiming gonna do.

[WrathChild]

Haha, this is epic. So it sounds like we've got Peregrine on BeatDown Row, Adventurers kill SGR, we lynch Zdenek. Two scum left. How is Inhim and Feysal confirmed scum?

[WrathChild]

MFW?

[WrathChild]

SGR are you still pretending to be town?

[WrathChild]

Grab bracelet

Upon the grab do you find out what the item is. I'm a bit paranoid about cursed items for some reason.

[WrathChild]

Isn't Bowser supposed to be gone by now? Like, I thought he was only here for a Day or something.

[WrathChild]

Also, I'm pretty sure the Let there be blood thing is the whole, an new item for everyone thing.

Grab Amulet

[WrathChild]

2- gandalf5166 - Adventurer
3- A Gaggle of Geese - Town
7- Bunnylover - ???
8- GreyICE - Adventurer
10- Vaya - Adventurer
12- WrathChild - Adventurer
16- BabySpice - Lich Hunter
17- Surye - ???
20- inHimshallibe - ???
21- SGRaaize - Lich, Undead
23- Feysal - SK
25- Bowser - ???

Questions:

@Babyspice: What happens when you win? Is Kill SGR all you have to do? Are you capable of doing so? What happens is he is lynched or killed by someone else?
@Feysal: What happens when you win? How many points do you need to win still? Are you able to get those points or are you a lost cause?
@Bowser: Please claim

[WrathChild]

Wow, some major grammar and formatting fails above. Please deal with it please.

[WrathChild]

Fellow Adventurers,
Please bare with me here. Perhaps we should here how Feysal intends to achieve his 7 points he needs. I'm all for everyone, but the mafia, winning.

GI, yes I know you don't buy his claim, but give him a chance.

[WrathChild]

Also, Feysal. Is your killing ability a spell or an attack?

[WrathChild]

I want each player to answer this in their next post -

1) why do they believe Feysal's claim, given everything he's posted, and all the ways he's shown he's mafia?

2) If you are not voting Feysal, why do you believe that SGRaize is so blitheringly, mind numbingly stupid that he forgot that RiceBallTail was

CONFIRMED WRIGHT BY WAY OF DYING DAY 1?

He claimed scum when he claimed to use a damaging ability to confirm otherwise, why do you believe ANYTHING DIFFERENT?

3) How many times does Feysal have to hit the post reply button before an obvious lie becomes truth?
- Feysal claimed that he knew AP killed SpyreX from the start
- Feysal attempted to lynch Surye because he was not blocked, and SpyreX died
- Feysal claims to be helping the town

Which of these are untrue? Is it possible that all three are true? If so, how?

If you don't answer these, label yourself a failure of a human being. Feysal and SGR exempted of course, claimed scum claimed.

1) I think Feysal is scum and needs to die.
2) I'd love to lynch SGR
3) All this feels like SK scrambling more than mafia.

I have to agree that the Wish (if Feysal doesn't get lynched) needs to go to the adventurers or it will never happen. However, I think that he should not announce which adventurer he gives it too.

[WrathChild]

^WC, *hinthint*.

I'm not getting your hint. I didn't heal Gaggle, I didn't attack Gaggle either. I've been playing strictly defense and will continue to do so until we walk out of here with a W under our belt.

[WrathChild]

Can you two stop it please before one or the other of you do something dumb like get mod-killed and ruin our win by some weird extension of Snow Bunny rules?

PS, I know now all your secrets scum. I have everything we need to know to finish you off tonight and walk home with a big shiney trophy.

[WrathChild]

Thanks Snow Bunny. I liked a lot of the mechanics, but felt there were too many running simultaneously to fully appreciate any of them to their fullest extent. Unlike, some players, I understood coming into this game that things were gonna be wacky, so I don't hold anything in the design against you, I felt by signing up for this I signed a liability waiver too. I think some people forgot that.

Despite being a Mod-Confirmed Retard, my record stands unscathed. Good job adventurers. Just so you know, we were going to slaughter you all like sheep if Snow Bunny didn't throw in the towel... and GI didn't get mod-killed.