Mini 1176: Dexter Season 2 (Game Over) Who Won?

[VP Baltar]

Vote: SocioPath

I'm policy defending anything Sotty does this game.

[VP Baltar]

thought you might like that for a change of pace.

[VP Baltar]

Yes. it was all me.

[VP Baltar]

He can't be trusted yet.

[VP Baltar]

He can't be trusted yet.

And yet somehow YOU CAN TRUST ME?

No, you mad. It says so in your username. However, I'll make you a deal. If you vig a scum today, you can be in super awesome VP-Sotty alliance.

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: Kid Know Nothing

[VP Baltar]

Guys, I cracked the case! The bay harbor butcher is Dexter. For realz!

/wishes he had something thoughtful to contribute other than obv scum KKN.

[VP Baltar]

Adding a point really quickly before heading back to work. I do not like post 35 The back and forth with Tas and Kise saying you know you are scum and tas asking for a reason, then saying is it because of he didn't vote for Budja, then fixes it by voting for budja says he is more then aware of things then he is letting on. I also read the link and I found Tas more joking around and trying to understand then nervous in the link. This game he's like, what did i do and now following others scum suspect.

unvote:
vote: tanstalas

~Fixed url tag

Tans, can you respond to this directly. I think this is the strongest point against you.

KKN - are you an alt? If yes, have I played with your main before?

[VP Baltar]

I don't get why you keep acting like it's a towntell when you just said:

it's paranoia - because I do not know who is town and who is scum, and I am like that in my town games, look at my town games, I bleed paranoia when I am town. When I am scum I feign it, I think I do a decent job of feigning it, but when you meta me you know what I am to start, and I am sure you will be able to tell the difference between when I am feigning and when I am actually paranoid.

So you're good at faking it, but everyone is supposed to be able to tell the difference. The fact that you're hyper-aware of your own meta makes it null.

And what I really wanted you to answer is WHY didn't you vote budja at that point if he bothered you so much? Why did it take prodding for you to remember 'oh hey, yeah, I think that's scummy.'

[VP Baltar]

Gun to my head I prefer the tanstalas wagon to the KKN wagon but neither of them impresses really.

And yet you're voting no one. m'kay.

[VP Baltar]

show me your townie colors so we can start interrogating some criminals

[VP Baltar]

Lets change gears here.

People vote all the time with no reasons given.

Unvote
Vote: tanstalas

You're changing gears from RVS to voting the most popular wagon? Despite your reasonless vote that seems to be a way of poking tans in the ribs, I'd actually like to hear your reasons. tia

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Sociopath

should have been in the last post.

My wagon built the fastest, with three consecutive votes. (LL, VP, and LMP). Tan was the fourth to join (Post # 49). The last vote was Sotty. (Post # 69).

Of those five people, one was a "random" vote. Tan voted me for a blatant misread or misrep. He also unvoted when Amrun and myself both commented on that fact. LL and Sotty are the only people who pursued the case further, LMP and VP both have yet to comment on their votes. (Although it should be kept in mind that LMP's vote was "random").

So, in this context, some suspicion falls onto VP until he can explain his vote to me.
@VP, please do the above. Especially since I've been "obv scum" since your post 47.
And also explain what importance my "alt" would have on this game. (I use quotations because it's more of a forgotten account from a few years ago rather than a true alt.)

People pursuing you is scummy? I voted you originally because you were badgering Kise over nothing. His reasons for voting tans were pretty obvious to me, and it felt like you were trying to look busy by nudging him over it. Having said that, since then you've proven you're wound very tight and overdoing your scumhunting is probably a null tell. Calling you obv scum was just a jibe to get you riled up.

re:alt - just out of curiosity more than anything. You clearly don't post like a noob, so I was wondering. That being said, you probably need to chill a bit because performing VC analysis on page 6 is not only a bore to read, it's not going to net you any scum. If you'd like to have your spreadsheet, that's cool, but don't make the rest of us read walls of generally not that helpful analysis.

[VP Baltar]

Also,

Mod, I will be V/LA from June 8 to 14. I may be able to read the thread, but probably won't have time to post.

~Noted.

[VP Baltar]

very happy with my vote and I encourage others to join.

[VP Baltar]

@Vp, I still don't understand why you brought up the alt question. It seems like filler.

If you were someone I knew, it may have been useful meta-wise. You're not, so it's not. Plus curiosity as I said. You harping on it seems more like filler than the actual question itself.

[VP Baltar]

VP, you seriously need to learn how to be more assertive.
Time is of essence.


All this V/LA V/LA V/LA everywhere is displeasing though.

Most of the time people complain I'm too assertive in mafia games Honestly, I've yet to get hooked here. All the arguments so far have been kind of dull, and as you pointed out V/LA has spread across this fine town like a lazy fog. Plus you've muddled my 'Socio the late bandwagoner!' wagon by encouraging it...

[VP Baltar]

Well, the entire town will be present at some point, yeah. May as well add it if you have something.

[VP Baltar]

Why those two in particular Amrun?

[VP Baltar]

DDD pushed on Budja. Why is that not notable?

[VP Baltar]

Baltar, you going to try to sell me on the Socio wagon or did you just create it to see who would jump on?

Originally, I created it to see Socio's reaction more than anything. His basic reaction was 'lol, come at me bro'...which sort of made me think he's not really scum when he's antagonizing people to vote him. I'm not really that set on my vote there, but I've also been having a bit of a tough time getting into this game so far. Now that it's the only real game I'm in atm, I think I'll be much better at concentrating on it and my scumhunting here should improve.

Speaking of which, Hinduragi...can you explain to me your past experiences with Socio-scum and how you see similarities with this game?

[VP Baltar]

I'd prefer he did...

[VP Baltar]

Unvote, Vote: LynchMePls

as I'm waiting for Hind here.

[VP Baltar]

lol, very happy with my vote. hypocritical angry scum is scum. Wasn't expecting such a rise, but I'll take it.

[VP Baltar]

^5

But seriously, you're going to call me lazy when you just came in here after doing nothing all game and sheeped your first serious vote of the game onto the top wagon of the moment?

[VP Baltar]

vote count hadn't been posted so technically not the top wagon, but still near the top of popularity in terms of 'what's hot'

[VP Baltar]

^5

But seriously, you're going to call me lazy when you just came in here after doing nothing all game and sheeped your first serious vote of the game onto the top wagon of the moment?

Yup.

Socio already played the 'I'm not scared of you' card. Doesn't work this time. Also, why so angry? That's not the LynchMePls-town I've seen...if we want to play that game.

Bonus points, do you think I'm scum?

[VP Baltar]

You telling everything about that role, Kise? Seems like you have inside info into the setup, ie why would we have no reason to suspect an SK here? Why are you "hoping there's at least 8 town"?

[VP Baltar]

Also, do you win with the town or claim a sole victory?

[VP Baltar]

Also, do you win with the town or claim a sole victory?

Useless question is useless? If its the latter do you think he's going to admit it?

Ok, stupid question. Fair enough.

[VP Baltar]

Budja - do you think Kise is lying about his survivor role?

[VP Baltar]

So you want to waste our lynch today on a useless 3rd party rather than lynching scumbags.

[VP Baltar]

How exactly? Scum are playing against our wincon and survivor more than likely is not playing against our wincon. I'm not sure who those things are equal.

[VP Baltar]

He just stated he has a part of his role that allows him to join town, therefore he's a threat to scum. Anything else?

[VP Baltar]

I don't want to actively find Dexter or Rita and join town in case you guys suck. I'm thinking the mod's idea behind my role is that I can instantly lose as survivor, unless I put forth the effort to join town via my action. I'm still interested in playing as normal.

I don't really see any other way to interpret this.

Unvote, Vote: Budja

[VP Baltar]

Well, I mean there is obviously the point that he could be fabricating the whole thing, but if you think he's a survivor I just don't see why you'd want to lynch him.

[VP Baltar]

So one wonders why you asked it.

I'll try to be more perfect for you next time, dear. If you're making some sloppy attack to call my fluffy again, you may as well gtfo. Particularly after you're just sheeping other people's reasons to vote AGAIN.

LMP for top vig target 2011!

[VP Baltar]

It's been awhile since I've seen season two honestly, but it kind of fits because she is more antagonistic toward Rita + Dexter than Cody is in general. Plus outguessing the mod and etc.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I mean, Astor as survivor for season 5 certainly makes more sense, but I think it could go either way here plus flavor is always open to mod interpretation and general WIFOM.

[VP Baltar]

Lynching a claimed survivor D1 is like saying 'hey town, let's waste a mislynch cause this guy is scary.' I don't see how that's town behavior in your opinion, Sotty. Also, what do you mean fluttering around like a butterfly? I mean, I agree I don't have any super strong scum reads, but all of my stuff has been thoroughly explained in thread.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that the move from socio to LMP was finding my footing...but I had already said that Socio was more of a feeler vote. LMP was 100% serious and I stick by what I said.

In terms of what I think of socio now, I'd say leaning town, but it's not a strong read by any means. He's participating and answering to his wagon well, imo. I don't think he's the right lynch today out of the leading wagons.

As far as survivor/town wincons/etc., that's kind of moving the goal posts. I'm cool with Kise getting vigged if that's how a potential vig wants to shoot. Point is, he's not a direct threat to the town wincon atm, therefore we should be trying to lynch the scum who are. I think Budja's push on it was fishing for an easy mislynch, which he sand danced away from when I called him on it.

p.edit - I'd be cool with a Budja lynch. LMP looks like scum to me as well.

[VP Baltar]

VP: but you don't consider either of them particularly strong scum reads?

Strong is a relative term. Out of everyone else in the game so far, those are my strongest scum reads. Not sure what the point of this question is though. Can you elaborate?

[VP Baltar]

No, I would definitely lynch Budja.

[VP Baltar]

Rather than outguess anything, I just suggest Kise either full claims all his knowledge and aligns with the town or he gets shot in the face and loses. Pretty simple ultimatum that only gives him one choice if he wants a shot at winning the game. Right now, I put his chances of a 3rd party survivor victory at less than zero.

[VP Baltar]

Debbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Where will I get my weekly fill of sarcastic remarks and narrow hips! *ahem*

Anyhow, I was doing a little rereading of the day to scrutinize the Budja wagon and see how I felt about it.

DDD - started the wagon and pushed it for the most part. His participation kinda dropped off a bit after it was rolling, but that's not entirely unexpected from his approach to the game. He probably goes in my town column for now.
tanstalas - He plunked his vote on Budja and just put the game in cruise control for 4 or 5 pages with some pretty lame arguments. DO NOT LIKE.
Locke Lamora - I think he's town
Amrun - Her Budja vote was a little meh, but she did blatantly state she was going to sheep...which I think is a statement scum tend to shy away from for the most part. Plus I feel good about her in terms of the rest of her play yesterday. She was active and really seemed to be trying to figure things out. She goes in the town column.
VPB - pretty obv. town
LynchMePls - His push on Budja is pretty much out of left field and it's just him quoting things...as that apparently makes a good case. I don't care for it and in combination with the rest of his play yesterday (repeated sheeping, getting overly defensive at slight questioning) I really don't like LMP here. LYNCH DAT SCUM
Kise - obv. whiny survivor is obv and whiny. I'm really disappointed at the lack of vig shot on him last night. It very much bothers me because he's proven himself anti-town that needs to be eliminated from the game early. We can't be spending a lynch on him a day or two from now if we don't get some scum lynches under our belt. Jury is still out on what the correct course of action is at this point, but I think we should figure it out sooner rather than later.

Ok, actually reading since the start of the day now.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, read over the pages and here is the tl;dr of it:

Tans: HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR fencesitting -LOL JK - I don't really know what fencesitting is...nor do I know what false dichotomy is but it sounds purty

The end.

Anyhow, in spite of tanstalas making zero sense on this last page, it's possible he's just really bad town here. I'm more comfortable with killing LMP with fire today.

Vote: LynchMePls

[VP Baltar]

@tans - I have seen those terms. You are not applying them correctly. You're also not going to convince me otherwise. I did look at your case and it's shit. U mad?

I happen to agree with Amrun that chances are high there's scum between you and LMP. Very good chances I feel. Your reasons for calling LMP town are also complete shit.

That's all.

@DDD - Are you saying you think it's reasonably likely there are no scum on the Budja wagon? What are your thoughts on LMP?

[VP Baltar]

^agree about farside point. Kise's actions yesterday were crystal clear and he's an annoying survivor, not on the scum team imo.

[VP Baltar]

Well, DDD's point is valid to some degree. It's not a guarantee there are scum on the wagon. Likely, but not guaranteed. People off the wagon shouldn't be off the table today is his point, and I think that's legit.

[VP Baltar]

Also, just as a heads up, when I'm V/La starting tomorrow, I'll probably be reading and moving my vote as I feel, but I definitely will not have time for cases. Thanks for your understanding.

[VP Baltar]

Counter accusations of :badposting: with 'nah uhhhhh' - check
Make wild accusations of 'sincerity' that can't be defended against - check
Deliver OMGUS vote on the person pushing your wagon hardest - check

Being obv. scum who lacks direction - priceless.

[VP Baltar]

central park is hot as fuck...

definitely havent read up guys, but im interested in amruns request for a tans vote and the burgeoning farside wagon. ill try to catch up soon.

[VP Baltar]

read up. farside case is decent, but im kind of torn because sotty's defense of LMP is weak and she's the primary mover of the farside wagon. meh. LMP is faking till you make it on the amrun and KKN wagons. so bleh to all that business. on the other hand, DDD is for it and I like the cut of his jib.

Hind and Socio are skating. Not inclined to move my vote at this time.

[VP Baltar]

what is socio currently doing that is playing obv scum?

i will be back to full stregth soon guys.

vote: farside

[VP Baltar]

sotty and DDD , do you think Amrun is likely scum? scale of 1 to 10. same scale for LMP.

[VP Baltar]

Amrun claimed? Which post was this?

[VP Baltar]

LMP, say Amrun isn't lynched today...who needs to swing?

[VP Baltar]

LMP - earlier you called farside's scumhunting "ineffective" and you said that you find "ineffective scumhunting" scummy. Taking that notion and looking at the rest of your scum list:

TOWN
Sotty7
tanstalas
Debonair Danny DiPietro
farside22
SocioPath
Kise
Hinduragi
VP Baltar
Kid Know Nothing
Amrun
SCUM

I'm kind of curious as to what:

SocioPath
Kise
Hinduragi
VP Baltar

All did that made them scummier than farside. Please be specific in how you came to the ordering of your town-scum scale. What do you see as farside doing positive this game that she'd be placed as high as she was on your scale? What did Kise do that puts him in his place on your list?

[VP Baltar]

where is the cut off point for nullsville?

[VP Baltar]

I'll just hammer when requested. No one reads my post any way.

You should probably say something and not be pouty if you want people to read them.

[VP Baltar]

Scummiest people are LMP, you and hinduragi.

the best part of the case against you is your push on Kise being a lame duck attempt to get town cred. Additionally, your rampant OMGUS of Sotty since then is pretty scummy as well. Appealing to self-meta for you is probably null, but I generally find your play this game to be lacking actual fire. Your 'anger' seems more fabricated than it was in a game like, say, Stars Aligned II, where you were authentically raging about being mislynched.

@LMP - so you think I'm legit scummy then, correct?

[VP Baltar]

First part at farside, ninja'd and I'm lazy.

[VP Baltar]

1) it's not a theory. it's blatant fact. I pointed it out early as well. Kise clearly hammered as a survivor because he was having a hissy fit about not having a chance to win the game. You came in and wanted to push him as possibly scum because of some noobish didn't wait for a claim business. How is that a theory in any way, shape or form?

2) Being reactionary as you're playing is more likely scum than town. Town players get feelings and suss them out and push on people consistently. Scum flail about and snap at people for no real reason. I see no reason to see Sotty as scum at this moment, nor do I feel you've explained any kind of a good reasons for suspecting her. That's why your OMGUS looks scummy rather than null.

3) Ok, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I said, but I hope you can find someone soon to help you out and ease the burden. You should check out the hydra thread in MD if you haven't already. I know there are people there seeking hydras.

[VP Baltar]

I read it. I was posting from my kindle and didn't want to go dig up a smiley face to sooth your soul. Again, being pouty and making excuses for yourself not to post doesn't buy any brownie points from me. You want to be taken seriously, then do some serious scumhunting.

[VP Baltar]

1) So ignoring his is town in your eyes because he said I'm doing something anti-town? Yeah it's so noobish that scum MOI did it in the game I linked. You didn't read it? How is it not a theory that scum hammer without waiting for a claim, when I have seen it before?

No one said anything about ignoring it, but really there isn't much there to comment on. I don't see how it can really be read in any other way than what I stated...aka, pouty survivor hammer from someone who thought they were going to be vigged that night. Do you still feel there is a reasonable chance Kise is scum faking a survivor claim?

Also you call me failing around scum OMGUS, where was this when Tan was OMGUS any player that attacked him?

I hold you in a higher regard than tans. He really seems to be dead weight...though townish dead weight for his sheer lack of sense.

VP is floating around. I don't see a drive i saw in the game he brought up. Usually he has tons of theories. I just noticed it this morning when I had a chance to read the game a bit here and there.

I'm kind of confused at this. I think I've been active and pushing in very concrete directions this game. I was gone for a week, so that dinged my activity of course, but I tried to keep the pressure up as much as I could during that time. I still don't like LMP. I still think Hind is mega-coasting and staying on the sidelines. I still think a vig should shoot Kise in the face asap. I still think Amrun is town and that wagon is bunk. I've been pretty clear as far as I can tell.

Unvote, Vote: Hind

Post or die homie

[VP Baltar]

I <3 kittens

~Well, if I ever have to prod you I'll find the cutest one!

[VP Baltar]

Something about the Socio Hinduragi fight doesn't sit right with me. Like there is too much "I'm certain" on both sides.

I don't know what this means. Show your work.

[VP Baltar]

Guys, we're clearly at an impasse here. This day has been going on forever and there has not been very good direction. Ido think Hind is a good choice. I think farside is scummy, but that's partly because I'm starting to think DDD and Sotty are town more than I'm seeing as much word-twisting in farside's play as Sotty is seeing. I have a hard time reading farside most games because she gets very emotionally involved regardless of alignment, so that's kind of bleh.

Hind and LMP would probably make better lynches today, imo.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not necessarily opposed to a farside lynch. If I was picking a side out of you two in that argument, it would definitely be yours without hesitation. That being said, I'm not the best at reading farside because she plays with her heart on her sleeve and that muddies things.

In terms of hind vs. socio -- I guess I can just see lazy-town socio playing that way. Not that it's a real excuse and he's not really a town read from me, but my gut just twinges at hind more. This is probably a sign that I need to put more effort into that thought though.

@farside - your point about DDD's reasoning for budja doesn't sway me. i can see what DDD was saying there and that he believed it. I think he's town. Your vehemence against anyone having a town read is quite odd to say the least.

re: your emotions as scum - I dont' really feel like digging up meta games to argue with you about. I have a feeling you're not going to agree with my assessment, so what's the point? I think you're a highly emotional player.

re: twisting words- Your entire argument with sotty is very much about semantics and trying to throw mud on her. I don't feel like you're coming to the table with her believing she could be town or scum. Now, whether this is just confirmation bias on your part or simply because you're scum trying to look confrontational is a judgement call.

One thing I will say is that there is a drastic difference in your play before and after I said you were lacking the fire I was used to from you as town. Did that comment affect how you were looking at the game?

@Socio - Get in here and make it worthwhile. I'd like your thoughts on pretty much everyone in the game at this point. Time to stop this lazy snark or I'll gladly lynch you today.

[VP Baltar]

^this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard...almost to the point of unbelievability.

Also, Amrun speaks trufax about LMP.

[VP Baltar]

I don't need quote walls to make cases. People's actions speak for themselves. Your flailing about at anyone that says you're scum, which you refuse to acknowledge, is indeed scummy.

re: my question - you didn't answer it. Let me rephrase, what caused the difference between your day 1 and day 2 play exactly?

[VP Baltar]

The scummy flailing part is how I wasn't even on your scumdar until I started asking you sharp questions. Same with Sotty. Same with DDD. etc. etc.

Demanding long form cases is a pretty dull tactic. Even if I list out a million quotes, are you ever going to believe my reasoning for finding you scummy? Now, if a third-party wanted me to clarify my reasoning or show my work so they could understand better, sure I will get right on that. But me trying to prove my case to you is just making the thread longer than it needs to be and nobody wants that. This has been my policy for quite awhile, so if you think this is out of sync with my town play, you need to familarize yourself with my more recent town play.

My question really isn't that different, as I asked you about that very early in the day iirc, but whatever. I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

New question: why is your day1 play so different from your day 2 play?

[VP Baltar]

lol, this is my favorite type of wagon. any other takers?

[VP Baltar]

no no, Amrun. Let the scumbags continue. I've seen this many a times and it doesn't end well for them.

tans, hind, socio - care to get in on this wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Kise, who would you vote other than Sociopath?

[VP Baltar]

Mod: Can I find you a player that knows my meta and is blinded like sotty to defend me to take LMP's spot

sorry that is the sarcastic bitch in me speaking and not at all serious.

@SP: I'm soooo tempted but I really would love VP to answer some questioning instead of the stalling he's been doing since I pounced on him, but if he actually proves to make a case instead of just making comments without backing his shit statements up I may join your wagon there.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for me to go quote walls with you. You do play emotionally and you did twist Sotty's words to make her look scummy for no real reason other than she was giving you grief. Apparently you either think a) sotty-DDD-VP scum team is in play (in which case, lol gg to you) or b) everyone who takes umbrage with your play is highly likely to be scum.

In other news,

Unvote, Vote: Blackberry

[VP Baltar]

Why are you mentioning this, and does voting the same person as SP mean anything to you?

I mentioned it because I think it's an odd thing to say. I'm quite up in the air on SP's alignment. No, it doesn't bother me that we happen to be voting the same person. I follow my reads and don't make connections until after I've seen flips.

I think Hindu is scum with SP as someone else also says, but I'd be more assured by seeing SP flip first.

I still don't get why people think they are scum together at this point. But I guess that argument would have to be made after one of their flips.

What about VPB did he explain well in regards to my meta? What did he explain well in regards to the misrep?

I have read plenty of games with you. I don't recall which games off the top of my head, but your style is very consistent. Your wiki is not helpful, so I can't remember what games they were and I've been traveling for two weeks straight, so I don't have the time, nor the patience, to troll through all of your posts to find some old games. Here is an argument that would perhaps silence you though, since you want to be ridiculous: If your scum-style is uber calm and your town-style is uber emotional, why are you not insta-lynched anytime you're scum? I assume you don't have a completely terrible scum record. If your style is so blatantly different as you're claiming, why would that not be well known on MS? Furthermore, if you recognized such a disparity in your playstyle, why would you not actively work to correct that by either making your scum game more emotional or your town game calmer? I rest my case. You trying to self meta and claim it to be true is the height of insult if you think I'm that dumb. Show me the last game you were scum and received significant pressure. You'd know better than I what some of your current games are.

Re: you twisting words - literally every argument you've made about sotty has sucked. I mean, you clearly don't even believe them yourself. Look at you right now. You're saying, 'Oh town-Sotty, haven't you ever seen a scum bag like VPB suck up to a townie like you so he can ride your oh so townie coattails?' YOU WERE JUST CLAIMING SOTTY IS SCUM LIKE TWO POSTS AGO. Now it's convenient to have her in the town column. So who is appealing to who here darlin'?

I'm not interested in wasting and extension for a BB reread. I'd be ok with lynching him on LMP's play, or if we lynch farside he'll have time to catch up overnight. Also, seven days is more than sufficient to catch up.

I have a wedding this weekend and won't really be on guys, so don't expect too much after today until monday.

[VP Baltar]

@farside - Perhaps you dont'

always

get highly emotional as town, so if that's a blanket statement, then I apolgize. I guess just in my experience you seem to get emotionally attached to the arguments you make. That's what I see and that's how I'm going to read you.

wrt my cases in SAII, well that game was an awfully long time ago. Additionally, that game was months and months long and I was very invested in it. I wanted to win that game so freaking badly, I can't even tell you. I really thought you were scum there and I was putting a ton of effort into getting the town to make a lynch that I thought would bring us close to winning that game. Several things are different about this situation compared to that one. You're complaining that I'm making insufficient meta arguments and yet you're using one game from quite awhile ago as THE definitive game regarding my town meta. I think that's more than a double standard you're setting.

Please reply to my point about you appealing to sotty as town suddenly.

[VP Baltar]

Sotty and DDD - you guys better not be scum because that would make me teh sadz.

Now that that's out of the way, it's townie alliance time between us three. I recommend Amrun as our fourth and we have enough muscle for any lynch we approve of. Let's talk seriously about who needs to die at this point. Farside, LMP, or ?mysterycharacter?

[VP Baltar]

I don't think voting common denominators is necessarily the best way to find scum. KKN is playing like a dead fish so far, so I think he probably needs a pointy stick more than a noose at this point. I'd really prefer one of my top two picks or possibly hinduragi.

[VP Baltar]

one bussing scum buddy and Kise to hammer.

[VP Baltar]

ok everyone vote for either farside or blackberry now. we need a claim. people on wagons going nowhere are being useless if they are town.

[VP Baltar]

Eh, I'm not sure if that's correctly applied Amished tell there. I need to think about it for a bit. Ever since that Amrun mislynch I've been gun shy on it. I need to read everything closely before I come down believing it's used correctly here.

@tans - that's a very good example of incorrect Amished tell use.

[VP Baltar]

I'm curious about DDD being so set on fargrass. Do you think I'm missing something obvious? I mean, I see the scumminess you and Sotty are pointing out for sure, but I have such a hard time being positive on farside because she plays with her heart on her sleeve. Bleh, I'm getting late day jitters about that lynch. I think you guys both have a decent chance of being town, so I feel like I'm not seeing something. Or maybe my lack of attention to MS recently is just clouding my judgement. Basically, what I want to know is: do you really think I'm way off base with LMP/blackberry? I don't believe it's a good application of the Amished tell, but that aside I really didn't like anything about the way LMP was playing.

[VP Baltar]

He got hyperdefensive over nothing on Day 1, then his sheeping onto the Amrun wagon really set off all kinds of bells for me. He's nitpicking a lot (such as asking me why I asked one bad question, as if I can't simply have a derp moment...which I admitted to) and wasn't really doing a lot until he latched onto tans' Amrun case. Then he tried to inflate that case well beyond its worth, which I believe was an attempt to get an angry response out of her. Then there was his VPB vote, which was complete LOL.

Overall, I feel LMP is better than this. When I played with him in Clash of Kings, he was much more consistent and logical. He made some good choices as a power role even when he used his Kingsguard recruiting ability...which points to him making derp moves as a PR unlikely. Additionally, PoE from that first mislynch strongly points to him being scum.

[VP Baltar]

*even when he used his Kingsguard ability early (meaning, it would have been easy to recruit more scum than he did)

[VP Baltar]

@Sotty - do you feel any of that is an inaccurate representation of LMP's play? I feel like I'm missing something and I really don't know what it is.

[VP Baltar]

I'll give you the softclaim point because I would probably agree with you on that. Blegh. I still think PoE is substantial, as it is hard for me to see pretty much anyone else on that wagon as a strong scum read. Hard to believe it was an all town wagon frankly.

Unvote, Vote:Fargrass

Anyhow, let's get this rolling in a positive direction.

[VP Baltar]

Kise put Fargrass to L-1 please. I don't believe we should put anyone to L-1 that Kise isn't voting for after yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

Oh right, V/LA

[VP Baltar]

Goddammit. My router went out. I reread from my phone while I was gone but couldn't post anything because it would've been too big and I can't organize my thoughts from there. I'll have some kind of catchup post up tonight.

Too much delaying, I have done this as well when I have been scum, lurking close to deadlines and trying to fly under the radar. It is obvious that you are ignoring this thread as you are very active elsewhere on the site.

Unvote
Vote: Hindu

That's L-1

Well, if you are actually isoing his account, you'll see there is a large gap with no posting from June 23-27, so I do believe his router went out. That being said, I agree with you that he was posting up a storm in Defcon Mafia and can't manage nary a single content post here for us. What's the deal, Hind?

[VP Baltar]

Also, farside, just for the record, I think that was a pretty uncalled for comment and you should apologize for it. You're a listmod on this site and you shouldn't resort to personal attacks. Just my two cents. I'm pretty upset about Sotty leaving because she was one of the few people trying to play this game, but I don't blame her one bit for her decision.

anyhow, /off-topic

[VP Baltar]

As a townie, I think it'd be a benefit to modkill you, so I don't see a prob with what tans said.

[VP Baltar]

Your presence in this game thus far has only hurt town and you have at least a better than average chance of being scum. Modkilling you and getting to lynch today after that would give a ton of info. Additionally, I would get personal enjoyment out of it given recent events. Win-win.

p-edit: great minds and etc.

[VP Baltar]

Also, where is your other head at? you claimed you had no time to play mafia and that's why Grass had to come in, but so far it's just been you posting, correct?

[VP Baltar]

It's easy to pass the buck when you behave like a complete n00b I guess. I would say you two haven't defended yourselves at all really, but rather just lashed out and called everyone who gave you the least bit of grief scum. Pretty poor play if you ask me. Is that being pro-town in your eyes?

Sotty being a friend had nothing to do with my read on her actually. Neither does what I think of your behavior in this game. She was town because of her mafia playing. You're likely scum for your mafia playing. Is that hard for you to comprehend or can't you take the pressure?

Additionally, I don't believe sotty left the game for any pressure you put on her, but rather you were being rude and making personal attacks. She was perfectly justified for not wanting to play in that environment. Capiche?

[VP Baltar]

You're not helping with my idea of derp. Such is life. I think you should make another run at me. It will be funneh.

Also, since when do you two think Sotty is scum again? You were calling her town earlier. Remember when I pointed out that inconsistency and you didn't respond to it? Because I was scum sheeping Sotty-town to buy her favor. REMEMBER? Sand dancing.

[VP Baltar]

Because she's played a pro-town game and is questioning everything like a townie does. She is playing this game of mafia like a townie. Cause that's what townies do. Hope that's clear.

Also, explain what events caused sotty to be town when I was "sheeping" her and what events subsequently caused her to be scum again. For my edification.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, that sounds town.

*whisper whisper*

[VP Baltar]

I wait with baited breath.

[VP Baltar]

Just for the record, Farside thinks it's a VPB-Sotty scumteam too, right? I mean, you guys aren't posting inconsistent opinions in thread are you. That wouldn't be very pro-town of you to do.

[VP Baltar]

Nice mis rep, I never said I thought that's who the scum team was, I simply said that you were not helping the idea of that.

lol, what is this I don't even...

Ok, so you let me know when you're being serious and when you're not, deal? Who do you think is scum since it's not myself and Sotty?

[VP Baltar]

Why did you softclaim anyhow blackberry?

[VP Baltar]

Cuz I was going to claim anyways with being so close to lynch. Was that really a question you had?

OMG yes it was really a question I had. You weren't THAT close to being lynched. Seems kind of ridiculous to chastise your predecessor for bad PR usage while simultaneously softclaiming for no reason. But I don't pretend to be you I suppose.

[VP Baltar]

When I made my reply to blackberry, I had not read hind's post. After I had read it, there was pretty much nothing else to say in the meantime while we wait for socio to respond.

[VP Baltar]

unvote, vote: socio

[VP Baltar]

I'd like to lynch KKN if socio flips scum.

[VP Baltar]

if hindu is scum, he never would have said this:

FUN FACT:
I HATE DOING KILLINGS.
BECAUSE I HATE TRACKERS/WATCHERS.

This is true, actually. The one time I played with him as scum, we argued in the scum QT about who would send it in. Then we realized it was an anonymous untraceable kill.

fyi

[VP Baltar]

You have no abilities, and yet kise says you can recruit him. You gots some 'splainin to do.

[VP Baltar]

ok, then die. see if I care.

[VP Baltar]

VBP just claimed scum?
Is that so?

No.

However, if you're town you'd either a) have a recruiting ability b) would have immediately claimed your vanillaness and outted confirmed scum Kise. You did neither of these things and yet you claim you have nothing to explain. I's confused.

[VP Baltar]

ok, fair enough. why not claim rita so he could join the town?

[VP Baltar]

I don't think so. If you're vanilla, it's worth the risk right? At worst you'll draw a scum kill when they fear you're a PR. VTs goal is to lynch scum or take the bullet at night. Seems reasonable to me. Why is it silly?

[VP Baltar]

So, I take it you feel you're the best player in this game? It's about ego? How is Dexter confirmed town? How is Rita confirmed town for that matter? If you thought Kise was lying about being a survivor, why didn't you push that angle? Why wouldn't you want to flip Kise to the town side after he's already proven how much of a detriment he is going to be to the town as a survivor?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Also, I'm no Harrison Ford, but no need to be cruel, bro.

[VP Baltar]

he said he has no abilities, meaning he's vt. Also, blackberry speaks the truth about lynching socio benefits here.

[VP Baltar]

Today we should lynch Blackberry or Kid Know Knothing.

Vote:Blackberry

[VP Baltar]

Clearly I was incorrect. could have been distancing, of course, but I'm leaning on it not being for the moment. Meanwhile, I find blackberry unlikely to be town.

[VP Baltar]

What makes you want to vote a claimed PR over me?

Claimed being the operative word. He's very likely not telling the truth.

Just went over his posts quickly, do not like how he seemed to always keep Hindu in his top 3 scum suspects, then when Hindu started getting heat on him he posted that Hindu would NEVER say this as scum. (ISO-107) seems like he was bussing his partner ever so slightly for most of the game and when his partner got heat he tried to steer people away from the lynch.

I actually attempted to get a hind wagon going at one point and no one joined me. Guess you missed that in your iso. I was on him for quite a few days and was constantly trying to drum up support. I was summarily ignored and had to move on to greener pastures. So, your argument that I never tried to get his lynch is completely false. I still think you have a better chance at being town than other players, so I'll write this off as you being dumb. Play better.

He was willing to vote LMP, Farside or Hindu for most of the day yesterday. When Hindu wagon picked up steam he sided with Hindu and his fake claim that he was a tracker and got a guilty on Socio and then voted Socio. VPB didn't express any kind of read on Socio that he was scummy before this but he did on Hindu. Personally I can't see VPB-Town falling for that.

Well, the reality of the situation was that 1) the tracker claim seemed legit enough to me that I wanted to pressure Socio, who hadn't been contributing anything meaningful to the thread all game and 2) you guys lynched while I was sleeping. Would I have changed my vote had I had more of a chance to think about things? I don't know, maybe or maybe not. However, coming in here and acting like I was fighting the hind lynch tooth and nail is disingenuous at best. Additionally, what grounds would I have to chain myself to a buddy who was making a claim I knew was fake? Sure noobs might fight for each other like that, but why wouldn't I go through with the bus you are claiming I had been setting up all game? Why try to build cred and then not take it when I had the golden opportunity to do so? I may have sided wrong with the tracker claim, and that was dumb, but the play you are suggesting does not make one iota of sense.

I think it is probably safe to assume Socio is most likely town at this point, so wondering VPB, does the reverse ring true, you said KKN and Socio are most likely buddies in the above right? If Socio is probably town does that mean KKN is probably town? If so, why do you want to lynch him or BB?

Why would the inverse of that necessarily be true? Again, you make zero sense. Just because they would appear to be the most likely buddies in one given scenario does not mean KKN is exonerated in another. You have no evidence to make such a claim. Based upon my own process of elimination and reads, there is a very high chance of there being at least one scum between those two, if not both.

Also, Kise, tell me you became a part of the town last night.

[VP Baltar]

I allowed Kise to hide info? What?

In terms of me attacking SP for hidden info, I had misremembered what Kise said about the recruiting thing. Once socio insisted I was incorrect, I went back and looked for myself and rescinded that point. I don't believe I pushed him for any info I didn't think was there, and I've been one of the hardest people on Kise. I wanted him vigged long ago, and yet he survives.

[VP Baltar]

That part was about hind, not KKN.

re: socio - I was talking about the part where he claimed Rita and I thought he had the ability to recruit Kise. Then I looked back and Kise actually said he was the one with the ability to choose. That's what I meant by I rescinded that point.

[VP Baltar]

I was still voting SP at the end of the day because at the time I signed off of MS, I still felt it was the best place for my vote. Then the day ended while I was gone.

I'm not prepared to divulge my reasons of voting BB over KKN at this point and time. I will explain how I came to my process of elimination though:

Town:
DDD - felt good about him for a long time, continue to do so
Sociopath - hind flipped scum. bussing isn't impossible, but unlikely
tanstalas - felt he was townish since day 1 and when I reread hind over night, they way they argued seemed genuine
Farside - felt you were town for awhile, and that was soldified by how mean you were to Sotty. Scum probably wouldn't be so intentionally cruel.
Kise - still survivor

Scum:
KKN - stayed out of the fray pretty much all game after the early pages of day 1. Strikingly similar play to hind.
BB - preceded by LMP, who I have felt was scum since his early interaction with me. He soft claimed out of left field, which gave me pause for a bit, but upon further consideration didn't seem like a very townie move. Also, he survived the night after soft claiming a PR that is potentially useful. Doesn't make any sense as town.

It's pretty cut and dry that there is scum in KKN and BB to me.

[VP Baltar]

ebwop: point in time

[VP Baltar]

Oh and AGM, who was sotty, who was clearly town.

[VP Baltar]

Why should i give you the freedom to do whatever when you've already proven yourself anti-town? You wanting to vote for the most popular wagon doesn't surprise me, so there is little reason for you to try and telegraph your plays to look better. Faux reasoning is faux. Knock it off.

Out of your two proposed LOOOOOL scenarios, which do you think is the most likely?

[VP Baltar]

Just as a warning AGM, my town read on Sotty is a not a free pass for you by any means. I expect serious contribution.

[VP Baltar]

A lot of people have expressed interest in killing you?

And everything you've said about why Amrun was killed over you is LOL.

[VP Baltar]

You still think I'm scum Tans? If so, why?

[VP Baltar]

came to my conclusion last night. I was also pissed off at the way you acted toward a friend of mine, which was uncalled for (and you've yet to apologize for it).

[VP Baltar]

I'd like to hear your process of elimination explained, just as mine was for your sake.

[VP Baltar]

ok, tans might be scum. read that list and then try to get to this:

I think there are probably 2 scum left in the game between Fargrass, KKN, BB and/or DDDP

your brain will melt faster than if you had read 50 straight DGB shark posts.

[VP Baltar]

Read my interactions with Hind closer.

What interactions are those exactly?

[VP Baltar]

What do you think of Blackberry then?

[VP Baltar]

I actually agree with Fargrass on that point.

[VP Baltar]

unvote, vote:tanstalas

Sorry to hear about your 'puter AGM. That'd royally piss me off.

Take your time posting today Blackberry. We're not all watching you or anything like that.

[VP Baltar]

I hate children.

[VP Baltar]

I'm still open to lynching BB, DDD. I think now that the AGM-DDD-VPB townie alliance of win is solidified, we can just have our own convos here in thread and lynch where we think is necessary. You still think BB is the better lynch over tans?

[VP Baltar]

lol, implying you were invited to the voting bloc.

@DDD - I wish I had multiple votes. Pressure is still there on BB in spirit and I expect content from him.

[VP Baltar]

This wagon on me is all sorts of fail.

Just saying.

You've really done nothing to prove otherwise. I had to push you to get your reads, and since then you've done nothing but complain about people voting you or make light of it. Do you still think I should be lynched? If so, why are you not actually trying to get me lynched? Why are you so indifferent about the current game state?

[VP Baltar]

I don't know where I said giving reads was a town tell.

[VP Baltar]

I've said why I think you are scum. Why would I repeat myself?

Upon further thought, I think you're probably partners with KKN.

Why the indifference? Probably because of the scum voting bloc

Who else is scum besides me in the voting bloc of DDD-AGM-VPB? Why am I partners with KKN? And you should repeat yourself because clearly no one is listening. Is this mafia 101? Do you know how to get your scum suspects lynched?

p.edit - again, how is that saying it's a towntell for tans to give reads?

[VP Baltar]

@DDD - I softclaimed my rolename, and looking back at my ISO you can probably tell who I am, even before the softclaim. If you really think that I would be scum with that rolename.. lol

what do role names have to do with town or scum alignment?

[VP Baltar]

ok

[VP Baltar]

implying you were about to drop your reads without me asking?

[VP Baltar]

implying you were about to drop your reads without me asking?

No. I don't like giving reads, cuz I'm usually wrong and people will think I am more bat-shit crazy than usual

Ok, so I've never played with you, how exactly do you play the game of mafia if you don't give reads and you don't push for other people to vote the people you think are scum?

[VP Baltar]

What game was this? I don't have the best memory.

[VP Baltar]

There has only been one kill per night. I don't understand how you reach that conclusion.

re: R&C - oh right, I tend to block shit games out of my memory Flavor was great, game was so fucking bad.

[VP Baltar]

Mafia with no kill?

Edit: DDD and Sotty you mean?

Yeah

You just freaking said in the post before that mafia should have shot DDD or Sotty. sigh.

So VPB with no prior biases, do you think he's legitimately as clueless as he seems or is he attempting a con.

For real. I just don't get how this can be legitimate....nor do I see how anyone can con being so clueless and changing stances from post to post. crack is whack.

Tans, I don't even know what to say anymore. Like, I just want you to make a big long post making a definitive statement on everyone and everything that's happened in this game because I simply cannot follow any kind of coherent narrative from your thought process. If you're scum, I really have no idea how you are approaching this. You seem to just be saying things to make appeasements. You soft claiming Cody is whatever. Believing that someone is out to get you and the mafia have no kill is just beyond me in terms of what madness you would believe. Refresh my memory, you were scum in Rouges, right?

[VP Baltar]

Right. Just reread that game.

1) I kicked ass that game. Wish I was as on fire here.

2) You were pretty clueless other than your push on Exe there. So I should take that into account of how clueless you are here.

3) I notice a HUGE difference in the amount of effort you put into R&C and this game in terms of scum hunting. You were pushing cases and making points (albeit sometimes they weren't logical, you were still trying)

4) you didn't make kooky setup speculation there even though it was a ton of flavor in that game and craziness with the roles to boot. Your stance here seems inconsistent with how you played there.

[VP Baltar]

For everyone else's ease, you can ISO tans that game and visibly see the difference in the effort put forth: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[VP Baltar]

why should I ignore the quote? seems pretty relevant considering.

[VP Baltar]

Tans, can you explain why your level of effort is so glaringly different between those games?

[VP Baltar]

Town voting blocs are a bitch for the scum.

[VP Baltar]

Oh look it's blackberry, here comes a hammer

this is likely?

[VP Baltar]

This page makes me giggle like a Japanese school girl.

[VP Baltar]

Oh, I just remembered.

VP says "Additionally, what grounds would I have to chain myself to a buddy who was making a claim I knew was fake? Sure noobs might fight for each other like that, but why wouldn't I go through with the bus you are claiming I had been setting up all game? Why try to build cred and then not take it when I had the golden opportunity to do so? I may have sided wrong with the tracker claim, and that was dumb, but the play you are suggesting does not make one iota of sense." ... yet he is voting for me when the same would apply for me...

Why do you not think the same applies to me? Along the same lines, you should AGREE that DDD is scum.

VP can you respond to this and any thoughts you have on my post? X_x

My thoughts are wake the fuck up if your'e town. If you're scum, and you probably are, proceed as normal.

hint hint - I will never vote DDD because I can read him like an open book and he's town. We will never lynch DDD in this game. We will never lynch me in this game. You scumz are pretty poor at picking your targets. I'll give you some pro-tips when this game finishes.

@DDD - We sent your membership card in the mail. It should arrive in 6 to 8 weeks.

[VP Baltar]

You pretty much imploded at the first serious wagon on you. But I'm sure it's my deficiency in reading you that is the issue.

[VP Baltar]

What do you think of my thoughts on Kise/Socio that interaction?

I actually thought that part of your post was plausible and sensible. I really haven't liked Kise all game and I wouldn't doubt that he's been lying through his teeth all game. He's been trying to keep his head down as much as possible to meet his goals. I'm not too sure he's the right play today just because it seems chancey to go after potential 3rd party role the day after we lynched scum. I'd rather lynch a someone I think is highly likely to be scum today, and then take out Kise tomorrow as either a 3rd party elimination or potentially the last scum.

Do you think Kise, even if a Survivor, would be given two "confirmed" role names of Rita & Dexter? One of those two therefore must be a mafia-claim. Agree or disagree on this?

It's plausible. It does seem strange that Kise would have that much information about the setup. I think I said it yesterday, but with the way he described the role, it was pretty much impossible for him to lose.

Also, DDD - VP - (AGM) ... how do you plan to convince us they yall are right when yall are acting cliquey and buddying-ish when it'd be in the town's best interest to not do so and instead to help convince us of what yall see. The more yall cling to eachother, the more it looks like one of you is scum trying to hide in the pact.

Agree or disagree with this?

I understand your reservation if you're town. Unfortunately, town voting blocs are a very powerful tool to use. I think that's been demonstrated by the tanstalas wagon. Though you're on the outside of the bloc, you should still see it as a good thing. Why? Because a town voting bloc takes away a lot of power from the scum team. It makes it more difficult for the scum team to oppose the will of the majority and control lynching wagons through deception. Could there be scum in AGM-DDD-VPB? It's a possibility, but I find it highly unlikely. Nothing is ever guaranteed in a mafia game, but sometimes you just have to follow your instincts a little bit. The reason I trust DDD right now is that we've played 10+ games together. I know how he plays and I know what to expect from him as either alignment. Look at WWF Royal Rumble mafia as an example. I called his alignment in two pages and was willing to give him an ability that made him unkillable for the rest of the game. I'm rarely if ever wrong about him anymore.

I do think I've explained my reads and I have pointed out stuff about tanstalas in this last page that is quite scummy imo. I'm happy to discuss things with you (or anyone) at any time. But discussing things doesn't mean I should abandon my own reads because you don't share my opinion.

[VP Baltar]

Hey Blackberry, whatcha gonna do with that vote there?

[VP Baltar]

I'm in a hurry to get you lynched? Last I checked, that wasn't my reason for asking BB about his vote.

[VP Baltar]

I'm in a hurry to get you lynched? Last I checked, that wasn't my reason for asking BB about his vote.

Well, it seemed to me that was your intent Why single BB out over others?

Because his vote is on DDD, who he just said he'd believe was town.

[VP Baltar]

unvote

for now

Fargrass is probably right about Kise trying to hammer and I'm not having that.

Also, you write blogs about people that annoy you in mafia games?

[VP Baltar]

Blackberry, I'm curious.

I just am having a hard time understanding your tans town read. You say something about the way he typed when he thought he'd be hammered. Honestly, I felt like he was overreacting to being put to L-1 and his comments actually showed his interest in survival (a scum motivation, imo) more than a desire to prove his towniness and lynch scum. Like, tans' entire reaction, particularly doing a 180 on his town reads, seems erratic and scummy to me. Can you explain your thoughts on his towniness to me better?

[VP Baltar]

tans,why are you responding to a post that is not addressed to you?

[VP Baltar]

Blackberry, let's go with this important announcement so we can finish this day.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not that read up, but I'm not really following your reasoning for suspecting Socio, BB. I agree that a roleblocker is unlikely to have targeted Kise, but I thought that was obvious since the second he claimed it. The point about Socio being slow to vote Kise makes the most sense as far as I can see.

On the pretext that you're town BB, then I totally agree that the scum were bussing Hind yesterday. They would have known his claim was 100% fake and going to be revealed as such in time. There's a lot of wifom involved, but bussing makes more sense than not in that situation if you're scum.

I'm probably still gonna be pro-tanstalas lynch, but I'll hash this out with out before voting.

[VP Baltar]

you're not even at L-1.

[VP Baltar]

I don't see anything about that last post that looks town from Tans. Looks like a lot of flailing in a desperate attempt to push yet another wagon. Even if tans is prone to flip on his reads, the way he cycles people from top town slot to top scum spot and back again is the height of incredibility.

[VP Baltar]

DDD, you good with the tans lynch still?

[VP Baltar]

bold/underline towntell...

Also, I recall when I was town about to get lynched, people kept telling me I'm "flailing"... I think they were scum too...

We may not have as many mislynches as you all think

... something to keep in mind... i.e., let's kill Socio/Kise scum first. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to both be town in any way, shape, or form.

That would be true if we were certain Farside and KKN were scum, which we're not. We could be looking at a Kise/Tans or Socio/Tans scum team, in which case that point is entirely false. Hell, you don't even think Fargrass and KKN are more likely than Kise and/or Socio.

[VP Baltar]

And as far as you go tans, you may as well save your posting because I'm not particularly interested in your opinion of if I should hammer you or not.

[VP Baltar]

AGM, what are your thoughts on the stuff Blackberry has said?

[VP Baltar]

I'm confused. you only win by sharing rita or dex's win con? What happens if they're both dead?

Also, why lie about not wanting to side with Socio?

[VP Baltar]

You certainly make a lot of assumptions, BB. Let me state this, flavor heavy games most likely have mod-created fakeclaims. Kise's actions in general don't make a lot of sense in terms of someone trying to win. That's not a very good sign.

[VP Baltar]

Really? What makes you so certain the mod followed the same setup procedure as the last game? It's not really that relevant because I don't want to lynch Kise today, but I'm just saying that trying to outguess the mod is rarely a smart play.

[VP Baltar]

Again, I reiterate, we're not lynching DDD. I don't know why you guys think he's low hanging fruit you're gonna go after or something because it's flat out not happening.

Next topic.

KKN, what up b?

[VP Baltar]

If I have a town read on DDD, it means he's town. If I was uncertain on him, it means he's probably scum.

I don't think it's beneficial for the town to waste their time pressuring town players, no. I don't really care what your reads are on him. Even if you DID suspect him, there are much bigger fish to fry (ie, KKN, Socio, Kise, Tans, etc.) So let's not waste our breath on pointless arguments over nothing.

[VP Baltar]

Me & Kise & Socio & Fargrass & KKN & Tans can't all vote him? O_o

You know what the worst part is, there are actually town players in this list. If you guys would prove your town through your play, I'd totally like to make you a part of the voting bloc. But people keep switching their reads like a compass at the north pole, flat out lying (Kise) or expecting to skate by with no real contribution. And you want to lynch DDD for his play when he's been giving reads and opinions all game. But hey, he doesn't post walls therefore he's scum. Give me a break.

BB, I've been trying to work with you despite my PoE misgivings. I mean, look at the Budja lynch:

[7] Budja (

Debonair Danny DiPietro

, tanstalas,

Locke Lamora, Amrun, VP Baltar

, LynchMePls, Kise

)

If I call you town (and I've liked your more recent play) that doesn't really leave me a lot of people to believe are scum. But following your opinions, you're saying this was an all-town wagon. Pretty improbable in my opinion. Needless to say, I think clearing Tans or Kise doesn't make much sense.

[VP Baltar]

*prove you are town through your play

[VP Baltar]

vote: KKN

I'm good with this.

[VP Baltar]

We could probably try to lynch closer to Juls' V/LA just so the game doesn't have to be in night forever, but that's just a suggestion.

[VP Baltar]

this seems unlikely, but let's hear those results.

[VP Baltar]

unprompted PR claim is a scumtell btw. So is not claiming your results immediately.

Anyhow, waiting.

[VP Baltar]

Why did you track Amrun?

[VP Baltar]

that makes no fucking sense. Also, she seemed to be on the town side of null from looking back at your posts.

I'm still pretty okay with you dying.

[VP Baltar]

Explain to me why you would track a null read instead of a scum read. I don't even understand that.

[VP Baltar]

I'd assume the mod wrote the fake claim. Anyhow, as tans points out, the biggest issue is that you didn't even CC yesterday. And you unprompted claimed today. And your trackings make less than zero sense. And you've been lurking since Day 1.

Let's just get this done with so we can go to night and prevent extended night for the last scum. Keep the pressure on.

[VP Baltar]

He's not a tracker. Amrun and Fargrass are illogical track choices to the extreme. KKN does not appear to be an illogical player.

Also, HE NEVER COUNTERCLAIMED HIND. Why would you not CC for a guaranteed scum? Tracker isn't that powerful of a role. Certainly worth dying for if you can catch a scum in the process. Feel free to hammer.

[VP Baltar]

I think it's that a) he was run up quick and didn't have time to put together a good fake claim and b) he's not paying much attention to the game.

[VP Baltar]

=========[ ]
[ ]=========

[VP Baltar]

Honestly though, you're saying that you made a concerted effort to keep your role hidden yesterday when you could have CC'ed a scum and yet today you're chomping at the bit to claim and out yourself.

Also, KKN saying 'go after VPB tomorrow gaiz' means I'm gonna be the NK tonight. I shall speak from beyond the grave. Be afraid scums. Be very afraid.

p. edit - don't let Tans turn you away with his insult.

[VP Baltar]

My scum suspect list is pretty short actually, so if I'm alive tomorrow you should have a good indication already of who I will want lynched.

Tell you what,

unvote

now you have time to explain. Why would you track Amrun? Why track someone who is null when your odds of hitting a scum are already so low? Why not track Kise and try to see if he's lying? We all know he's holding stuff back about his role. He's lied a ton this game, seems like a good track to me. In terms of not counterclaiming, you seriously considered that there were two trackers in the game?

I mean, don't play this poor me card with me, alright. If you're town, then suck it up and do some quality posting. You have until I get up in the morning to answer the things above and explain to me who we should be lynching today without a doubt besides you.

[VP Baltar]

We're not lynching Kise and we're not lynching DDD. Again, why do I keep having to say this. Unless we're looking at a Socio-Fargrass team, I don't see how all of BB-Tans-KKN can be town. Tans is the worst out of that group and I don't really understand why he's off the table for some people.

That being said, I'd be ok with lynch Socio today. He's made pretty much every effort to stay out of the fray today and I don't find it implausible at all that he and hind were bussing.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, it does.

I mean, I'm kind of at a loss though. I can understand how both Tans and KKN look genuine in their responses to pressure. The latter more than the former, but I also don't think it's impossible for a scum to fake raging as a way to deflate their own wagon.

I feel like BB is being genuine about his scum hunting as well, but that could be fake.

Fargrass has the sotty attack, but that could have just been a bastardly thing to do that has nothing to do with alignment.

I'm 99% certain DDD is town just from how he's played this game. I'm not gonna second guess myself because that is where I get into stupid trouble. I really wish AGM was here because as much as I had a town read on Sotty, she's smart enough to fool me. On the other hand, I don't see her as a quitter when she takes scum either. Her frustration was definitely real, which I think was a town tell in that case.

Kise is a liar liar pants on fire and I still don't think he's being genuine about his role. I do think there are more pertinent matters at hand though.

So, I guess that leaves me with a huge ball of wifom. Looking at the above and me talking through my thoughts, it seems to me like maybe Fargrass or Tans are the best lynches at this juncture.

[VP Baltar]

I think tracking BB, myself or DDD are all good choices. I agree that Kise is a liar and a waste of night action.

Tans, if you're town, why on earth would you think you're a good lynch? What information do you think would come out of that at this point?

[VP Baltar]

Socio, you got anything to say about anything?

[VP Baltar]

Kise, given your role PM and everything that's been said in thread today, which of the following scenarios do you think is most likely:

Rita-town, Dexter-scum
Rita-scum, Dexter-town
Rita-town, Dexter-town

[VP Baltar]

not comping to anything PR related. Just being sure I was fair and no one can say I was trying to be shady and direct the tracker away from me or something.

Also, wtf, why would you fake claim hider?

[VP Baltar]

Tans, when the hell did I become uber-town you're willing to listen to anyhow? You were calling me scum a good part of this day.

[VP Baltar]

Also, wtf, why would you fake claim hider?

^that too

[VP Baltar]

none of those wagons are happening, so I wouldn't hold my breath foolio.