Mini 546: House Mafia - Game Over

[shaft.ed]

I'll join up with Vollkan and CKD on team Not L-Unit

[shaft.ed]

Go Go team Not L-Unit. I have a feeling it might be the name. People don't like negatives. Damn I just used two right there.

[shaft.ed]

I propose it stand for Northern Liberation Unlimited

[shaft.ed]

Does the case start soon?

[shaft.ed]

I don't trustgossip. Who else is unteamed at the moment?

[shaft.ed]

That's a cool name he should join the NLU, Notably Luxorious University

[shaft.ed]

Sure, I'll join the Noxious Lieutenants Unveiled.

OK Computer

[shaft.ed]

Thanks for unlocking the thread, helps for voting.

Vote Pooky

for being the leader of the L-unit

[shaft.ed]

um, he just posted

[shaft.ed]

So does this "case" have a patient?

[shaft.ed]

I guess that depends on what you mean by "bad"

OK so anyone want to guess what the heck the teams are for? Fives not a lynchable majority so I don't really know what purpose they could serve.

[shaft.ed]

That's a convenient method of bandwagoning.

[shaft.ed]

Welp as usual D1's aren't so easy to pick out odd behaviors. So far I'd say I'm not liking:

Adel for using her team as a bandwagoning tool.
Armlx for his worry of putting too many votes on TrustGossip (3) but then quickly following (or at least trying to) Pooky's vote onto Adel. Seems he's paying a lot of attention to how big a bandwagon he is making.
JiveMachine for saying that 1 vote is enough to pressure someone. Since when is one vote ever enough?

[shaft.ed]

I like how Volkan is focussing suspicion on members of the other team.

It's pretty pro.

I like how Pooky is casting aside arguments because they are directed at memebers of the other team.

It's pretty pro.

[shaft.ed]

So you believe you have evidence to justify a lynching then?

[shaft.ed]

ckd -- don't fret, it is all just part of my new "random bandwagon" stage.

OK I'd like to aim the bandwagon at you since I'm not liking some of your choices and reasoning thus far.

unvote vote: Adel

armlx I'd really like to hear where you got 80% scum read on me, and 20% on vollkan so early in this game.

I really don't like comments like this

i really have no other place to put my vote at the moment

Most times I've seen this play it's scum trying to look active but not wanting to take a chance with their vote.

[shaft.ed]

unvote vote: Adel

armlx I'd really like to hear where you got 80% scum read on me, and 20% on vollkan so early in this game.

So you would rather see some bullshit statistics? I'm moving around & stirring the pot.

Do I look like an easy target to you?

So you're going for the "I'm going to play scummy and then call people scummy for voting for me" tactic?

[shaft.ed]

Shaft: Your posts have enough to them to look significant but have no relevant infi really. Very Scummy. Also a lot just instinct here

If that's your feeling about my posts fine. But I would argue there are other people in this game posting more words and of less import than myself. I haven't really had that many lengthy posts thus far.

[shaft.ed]

vollkan I think you're reading armlx's percentages backwards. He does it the opposite of you with town =0 scum =100.

As for my Adel vote, it was more a pressure vote, I didn't like her bandwagoning. But I guess your right. Meta'ing her a bit more, she seems to play like this often.

[shaft.ed]

By "like this before," I'm not talking about unbridled bandwagoning, I mean I see you coming up with 'strategies' of unorthadox playstyle whereby you seem to convince yourself you will outscum, as you seem to be with TheJiveMachine. I'd site a Nightless game you played as an alt, but I think it's still ongoing.

[shaft.ed]

My mistake it was completed, I'm referring to your self-voting to L-1 in Quicklynch Nightless as Dischordian Algorithm. It's a brash playstyle that looked scummy, but you thought it would help out scum. I think it's a similar tactic to quite obvious bandwagoning and judging people's responses to it, though not as rash.

[shaft.ed]

I was trying to find examples of your D1 play. But you seem to like replacing into games after things get going, so aside from newbies (which I don't like to use for metas) that was the most recent game of yours I could find. I had read that game a long while ago and it stuck in my head because I found it odd that someone would want to play as an alt. I reread that game more closely for content and it seemed like a similar strategy to me.

I do small sample metas when the case is necessary, and in finding recent D1 play where I know your alignment this is the case. Small sample meta analysis helped me win Open 44 recently so yes I do think they are a valid tool.

I don't think anyone should have faith in anothers opinion, they should weigh it for what it's worth based on the evidence provided. You obviously aren't liking what I'm saying so I wouldn't be surprised if your faith was lacking.

[shaft.ed]

God this site quota is driving me crazy.

she seems to play like this

often

I clearly was wrong with the wording of this comment. I should have made more clear what I was referencing at the time, and that from your response I could see that you were playing for reaction.

[shaft.ed]

he is panicking

look at the frenetic posting

omg owned

My previous four posts, which would have been two if not for the CPU quota fairy, were replies to two direct posts from Adel. I fail to see how this is frenetic posting, and I think that you are making baseless acusations to fan the flames.

[shaft.ed]

smart enough to know random wagoning from dodgy vote-hopping. I find it very hard to believe that you would mistakenly take issue with Adel's wagoning - and then try and peg it on meta rather than on the fact that it was apparent random wagoning.

I've actually never played in a game with unabashed bandwagon hopping to the extreme that Adel was using. The times I have seen heavy bandwagoning it has been either from scum or from townies that end up outing power roles, so I don't like it. The uses of heavy bandwagoning in my experience are 1) to pressure a player into a poor response thus building a case on them [usually scum], 2) to counterattack players who vote the wagoner [generally from scum] or 3) simply to generate discussion and latch onto "odd" reactions to the wagon

. Since Adel was jumping off wagons before they could get going I knew it wasn't #1. So I wanted to see how she would react to some votes being added to her in order to discern between 2 & 3. She didn't heavily attack me or CKD for our votes and she did point out JiveMachines discrepency, this lead me to believe she was motivated to move the game out of random and generate some useful leads. My post saying as such was obviously lazy and incorrect.

What response are you talking about?

I'm refering to a calm inquisitve reaction to votes and pointing out the suspicious without a vote from JiveMachine. This post:

I couldn't have expected better results: just a little bit of erratic behavior brought out two votes and a wagon push by a lurking player. unvote, vote: The Jive Machine for the scummy behavior of keeping a low profile and only popping in long enough to try to add some fuel to the hottest fire.

I want to know how it is that you failed to spot random wagoning.

As I said I didn't fail to spot it, I wanted to know the motivation behind it.

[shaft.ed]

Pooky would you like to do something besides fan the flames. These are you last four posts.

shafted def scum now

So many people sitting on the fence with regards to shafted.

WHAT WILL HE DO NOW THAT THE SHARKS ARE CIRCLING AND HE IS BLEEDING LIKE HE IS MISSING AN ARM?

DUN DUN DUN.

Dance for me Shafted,

Dance Baby Dance.

re:Volkan I believe in attacking, I do not fail to see anything.

he is panicking

look at the frenetic posting

omg owned

shafted so scum

And it's not just restricted to me, here are you insights on TheJiveMachine

vote JiveMachine

the time for pettiness is over.

It is time for bilateral action against the common enemy.

[shaft.ed]

do you expect us to lynch him based on your hunch?

Pot: "Hey kettle, you're black"

So first you wanted to lynch me but you couldn't reveal the reasons:

What do you want me to contribute to this game other than who I think are scum?

I am not giving you my recipe for my special cookies.

they are age old family secret.

Then you stated that you may not even have any reasons:

In the field of diagnostic medicine, reasons are overrated.

The same is true of mafia.

So which is it, do you have no reasons at all, or are they super top secret Dick Cheney level secret reasons?


Armlx much like Pooky you are basically claiming me as 100% scum without stating any evidence to back it up

Wow, just when I thought we had hit max scummy, someone decides to make us have a decision. I'm sticking with my vote for Shaft right now, but Jive is rising to match his scumminess very quickly. Nice backtrack.

Would you also care to elaborate your case. Could you also compare Jive's play to mine since you state that he's almost caught up with my obvious level of scuminess? I personally feel his play has been more erratic than my single lazy post. And he's also adjusting his actions (e.g. ratcheting up to a vote) after light pressure.

[shaft.ed]

after 215 and 219, I'm astonished that J. Machine is still alive.

If you're that astonished why is your vote not on him?

Jive please answer Vollkan's questions.

[shaft.ed]

it is. Why can't you pay attention to detail? Do you really think you can hack it in the medical world?

Didn't realize you were intentionally messing up your bold tags. You are a tricky one.

[shaft.ed]

So we have to pick between:

Erg0
Pooky
Dean
TG
armlx

There are a lot of infrequent posters on that list. I have pretty little impression of Erg0, Dean or TG. Going to reread them today. I'm obviously not a fan of Pooky or armlx, but maybe being on the receiving end of their baseless attacks has me biased.

[shaft.ed]

We think you are scum.

Would you rather have us not state who we think are scum in order to keep you happy and on our side?

If you truly thought I was scum then why are you trying so hard not to convince others of your position. The only evidence you have put forth was "frenetic posting." Yet you state over and over I am scum hoping it will sink in.

[shaft.ed]

Adel I don't think you can...

[shaft.ed]

reading for the win!

vote: armix

Adel I must admit I'm intrigued. I haven't seen you mention armlx outside of a mild back and forth with CKD.

[shaft.ed]

I'm getting confused now.

armlx is looking scummy pretending to mimic Adel's strategy when he really didn't. Also he's at L-2 not L-1. Scum getting those confused tend to behave less rationally.

TG is getting Jive to talk by unvoting him? WTH will that do? Possible scum interaction?

And the other three options we have aren't posting anything, can we say lurk into D2?

Still haven't gotten time for my reread. Will try to do that before I leave for a long weekend. Not sure if I can.

[shaft.ed]

OK I got a re-skim in.

Overall I would rank the five players from scummy to townie as:
1) armlx
1) Pooky
3) Erg0
4) Dean
5) TG

armlx: Posted the most content (wordwise) of his team outside of maybe TG. But had a few minor tells early in the day. Like reluctance to vote someone to 3 but happy to jump on as a second vote. Then proceeded to make a pretty firm declaration of people's alignments before there was really any discernable evidence to move on. Didn't really explain this too well to vollkan. Also joined in with Pooky in fanning the flames while I was first in line to be lynched.

Pooky: I rank him at the top with armlx in level of scuminess but for different reasons. Has posted very little content to be caught up on, so unsurprisingly no glaring issues with his posts. He has significantly fanned the flames against me and other players without adding anything to the argument. Also debated with Vollkan about actually needing a reason to lynch someone. This is crazy in my mind.

Erg0: Erg0 and Dean both have hardly anything in the way of posting. I only rank Erg0 above Dean because Erg0 was quite active in the early game but seemed to take a back seat once strong bandwagons became apparent. To me this is scummier than just lurking the whole game as Dean did.

Dean: Chronic lurker. Very little content to go on. Would vie for a replacement before a lynch.

TG: One of the two actual contributors of team L-Unit. Has put his opinions on the line and backed them up much better than his other teamates. Seems to actually be scum hunting instead of going for the path of least resistance.

All tolled I'd be happy today with either a Pooky or armlx lynch. I'd like to let vollkan weigh in before I register a vote for armlx. Also want to note that in a couple hours I'll be away from the internets until likely Monday so I'm sorry if this holds the game up any.

[shaft.ed]

I guess I was just a little more cautious with the tactic than Adel, which fuels my growing case against him as it seems anyone with pro-town intents doing that would be more careful not to cross the line.

Funny, I think I would argue the exact opposite. Hmmm...

[shaft.ed]

Welp after staying the night in Atlanta because Delta doesn't know how to run their crap ontime, I'm back.

Looks like it won't matter very much however. I personally wouldn't mind waiting a bit for a replacement mod as a the main reason I signed up for this game was the player list (and Adel was a nice added bonus) but I'll go along with the 96 hours if everyone wants it that way. Really what else can I do play all by myself?

[shaft.ed]

Cool simulposting with Mod continuation, thanks Cluas!

I'll get my opinions on the NLU lynch up tommorow morning most likely.

[shaft.ed]

Still not totally caught up. I really didn't like the accusations against vollkan. To me his play on TJM was very similar to his normal playstyle, I don't see anything scummy there, and I think his attackers may have been hoping to take out a strong scum hunter where they control a large fraction of the votes and may be able to tip his lynching. I really didn't like the begining of Pooky's argument.

I have a gut feeling about Volkan, I could be uttterly utterly utterly wrong.

This reads to me like a weak case with a lot lot lot of ass covering.

2) Volkan's list only includes the 5 people he can vote for, if he did do a full reread, why would he not also post his thoughts on the candidates on his side as well? If he is intent on hunting scum, shouldn't he give us a fair assessment of the candidates on his side of the aisle in order to aid our efforts in hunting scum?

Hmm.. so the guy that made any list is scummy, but the person painting the guy as scum for making a partial hasn't himself done anything but make statements like "X is obvscum." If pooky truly believed this he also would have noted the other players only making partial lists. This information was not included with the attack.

I also find his attacking Vollkan for using numbers to be garbage. I've seen many players use such a system. In fact where was pooky when armlx used numbers early in the day? Twice while vollkan was town with me they were very useful for catching scum because it forced everyone on record as to who they thought was scummy or townie.

Here CKD points out another example of Pooky's logic cutting in both directions:

So basically you are just making offhanded remarks here while skating by on the down-low.

I might consider lynching you but I haven't ever lynched Volky and he seems to be a lot more fun to tangle with because he responds in such wonderful prose when attacked.

ah, so you want to lynch someone who you claim posts more versus someone who as you say is skating by and not posting...so you are condemning we for not providing content, but at the same time want to lynch someone who is..I am confused.

Also not liking most of armlx's recent postings. I haven't got the time right now to analyze him, but I should be able to this afternoon.

Summary I would like to lynch pooky or armlx but haven't completely finished reading armlx yet will decided today or tommorow.


Side notes:
Not liking Adel accusing vollkan of being "scummier than pooky" for his TJM stance as Adel was the originator of the wagon and Pooky was also a part of the voting block.

TG is looking very much like a lemming. He has a few times now posted that he is loving someones posting or their logic and his target has jumped around a bit including myself Adel and pooky at times, possibly others. Don't know if being an ass kisser makes you scum though

[shaft.ed]

Vote: TheJiveMachine

His(vollkan) major caveat in this game is his case against TheJiveMachine, who was the most obvious/weakest target at the time.

This doesn't read as conflicted to you?

As the heat has died down so has shaft.ed's activity until just now.

I was out of town for four days until just now.

[shaft.ed]

I still think that both scum are in team LU.

You win when all three of the bad doctors are fired.

I think if all three were on a team we'd have at least one lynch by now.

[shaft.ed]

OK, I've been a bit more busy than expected as of late. I'm pretty much up to snuff on what's been going on and hoping to get my promised armlx post up later today. In sum, I agree with most that his 'case' against CKD is almost laughable. I also find it odd that he'd put so much effort and thrust into it but state pretty wishy-washy like:

Also note the fact I have yet to vote for you, though as soon as an absolute deadline is posted I will.

CKD has no votes on him, registering yours really won't lead to much danger.

Not liking pooky dropping off of the map once armlx suspicion is obviously rising. Possibly trying to lie low until NLU picks a lynch candidate.

Also TG's conflicion in regards to TJM is noted:

I would really want fresh replacements for Dean and Jive.

TheJiveMachine 1 - TG

Crub is it too soon to request a Dean replacement?

[shaft.ed]

My eyes are really freaked up tonight so I don't think I can type much but I just wanted to point out to Erg0 that I find most of the players on the LU to be at least mildly scummy.

I've explained Pooky in detail, haven't yet gotten to armlx but I think others have made a decent case. Then Dean is a chronic lurker (who may just need replacing) and Erg0 you were doing a fair bit of lurking yourself. I don't think lurking itself is incredibly scummy as long as people respond when pressured, but in this game if it is set up with 2 lynches per day lurking could be a very viable strategy. So TG is the only player on the LU I'm getting a townish read on and he has his own issues with his TJM voting pattern vs. pressure which seems to be inverted.

On my side of the isle I'm seeing CKD and vollkan playing as usual. As others have said vollkan as scum is difficult to detect, but as town he is a vital asset. He doesn't seem to be playing out of the ordinary. If CKD weren't playing confrontational and almost belligerent I'd be worried about him. But I do understand armlx to an extent. The first time I came acccross CKD I found his style a bit scummy. But it's across the board. And armlx has been banging his head against fairly small points in this regard. Adel is a wild card right now. Her play seems most likely town as scum playing in such a manner would have to have huge balls to attract as much attention as she did, but knowing her persona I wouldn't put it past her. However, nothing of her play seems opprotunistic thus far. TJM is all over the place, and nowhere at the same time. Before he disappeared he was looking very inconsistent and in my eyes scummy. In fact I'll go on record saying I would have hammered had the twist not gone into effect before I logged in. His disapperance has thrown me for a loop, but I get the feeling he is trying to avoid what happened earlier by just avoiding the thread entrirely.

Sorry if any of this is difficult to read. I honestly can't read very much of what I wrote because of my eyes at the moment. so it's not been proofread or previewed at all. Hope this doesn't get me into trouble again

[shaft.ed]

Sorry I'm not posting as much as usual. My wife and I have recently started up a business so my standard "mafia time" in the shower and on the can is being preoccupied with other matters.

Anyway, I'm not too upset with the armlx lynch. He was playing fairly scummy, and I'd have been happy with him or pooky for today.

I guess it's time to help team LU find the scum. I think NLU has fewer scum potential than NLU. As I've stated earlier I don't think vollkan or CKD are playing any differently as they normally do as town. I'm not as familiar with Adel's play but I do think her early game was helpful to the town. TJM was my highest suspect previously on NLU. I am disconcerted about Beep Beep's accidental hammer. And I agree with CKD's point here:

As for Adel, you know she was the other vote to lynch Armix, you think she was bussing him early?

Beep coming in and painting Adel as scum when they are voting together is quite strange. I get the feeling he knows what alignment armlx is going to turn up and is attempting to shift the blame.

We don't get to know armlx's alignment before the next lynch right?

Also Crub, anything going on with Dean, will he need a replacement as well?

[shaft.ed]

As for Adel, you know she was the other vote to lynch Armix, you think she was bussing him early?

Oh yeah. Absolutely. I bet she didn't think he'd end up quicklynched...

I guess that's possible, but with team LU there were many other opportunities to push for. And Adel did a lot of the armlx pushing. You also seem to know quite a lot about armlx's alignment. Is there a reason for that?

[shaft.ed]

Many apologies Claus. You're doing a great job mod'ing btw

runs

[shaft.ed]

sorry vollkan that should have read

"I think NLU has fewer scum potential than LU"

In other words I think more players are playing scummily on team LU than team NLU. But my feelings may be off as one would expect the team with more scum to lynch a bit faster.

[shaft.ed]

Sorry for procrastinating on this game. Glad to see we got one scum (of course it was team NLU that caught him). What phase are we in now btw? I guess we can keep talking or does Claus not have thread locking abilities?

[shaft.ed]

Don't like the CKD Adel buddying continuation. Won't support either for leader.

[shaft.ed]

Don't like the CKD Adel buddying continuation. Won't support either for leader.

shaft.ed, you make it sound like I am supporting Adel, why is that?

You make a good point. I will consider your nomination further. Also liked some of your post lynch comments.

Adel, I do like your plan of thoroughly interrogating everyone, but I think it has weaknesses in that it will yeild players that perform well under pressure and not neccessarily scum. I still won't support your nomination.

Vollkan while I see your point that being on the "right" or "wrong" voting wagon does not an alignment make, I'm a little bit troubled that you are almost entirely ignoring such information. Also seems odd that you would not adjust TG's ranking after his twisted logic in accusing Erg0 for his own transgressions.

TG, your MegaFoS on Erg0 for voting after you is just poor play. Your hiding behind the pressure vote is even worse. You do realize that with such small groups your pressure vote placed Beep at L-2. You also realize that it is well within the realm of possibilities that you had a second scum on your team besides armlx. Finally you maintain that your vote was placed in order to get Beep to post:

Oh, so you didn't really

want

to lynch him, you were just leaving your vote on him as we approached deadline in order to encourage him to post?

Did I stutter?

0_o;;

Yet at the time of your confirm vote you clearly were voting because you found him scummy:

When I was asking for replacements, I was envisioning the pot being stirred. I did not foresee the pot tipping over and all the porridge spilling on the floor.

Confirm vote: Beep

L/A still.

Add in the fact that Beep had posted five times on the previous page compared to your zero posts and something isn't adding up. If this wasn't FTA I would be voting with Adel right now.

Pooky, I'm still not liking your "contributions." You'rs still badgering on about lynching vollkan with very little reason, at least that's how I interpreted your last post.

Anyway after further consideration, my leader list would be:
1.CKD
2. myself
3. vollkan


Also Thanatos, can you please contribute or ask for a replacement.

[shaft.ed]

yes which is why we should not have lynched Beep Beep During that voting phase.

Frankly speaking Nobody replaces into a game and hammers his scum partner without much of a grasp on the game

Frankly speaking, I do not believe Beep is capable of hammering his scumpartner right out of the gate like that.

Frankly speaking with the number of people who thought Armlx was scum ,it would've been damn foolhardy to lynch Beep Beep before we get confirmation on what alignment Armlx has.

He's one of the people we get a lot more information on after reveal.

Frankly speaking, we didn't know armlx's alignment before the lynch.

Frankly speaking, you didn't even mention this was damn foolhardy until after both players' alignments were revealed.

Frankly speaking, you never spoke a word in TJM or Beep's defense prior to his lynch.

Frankly speaking, you were part of his L-1 bandwagon.

Frankly speaking, you were not right on Beep's alignment because you never took a side in regards to his lynch, you made proxy suggestions that he was town being railroaded by vollkan.

Frankly speaking, here is the sum of all of your posts between the time Beep replaced in and the time armlx revealed his alignment:

vote Vollkan

Hi

I still want to lynch Vollkan.

Do any of you want to convince me otherwise?

If I had thought your responses were sufficient to alleviate my suspicion of you, my vote would not be on you.

Frankly speaking, did you have a relevant point to make with this line of reasoning or was it more for future reference as to what one should do in an instance where you are given two lynches and a recplacemnt quickly lynches a player while the replacement is also a leading lynch candidate?

[shaft.ed]

CKD if we're going to wait for a majority vote this will take forever. I think a system whereby each player gets 2-3 votes, first person to reach some threshhold is chosen as the team leader would be a little bit more expediant. Alternatively, each player can have a single vote and we just take the person that recieves the most. In that case Pooky has to actually make a relevant play in the game, and we have to wait for Thanatos to post something or get replaced. Also I'm likely to not have access over the weekend. If moving my vote would resolve a tie breaker resulting in either myself or vollkan becoming the team leader you have permission to move it.

Pooky, What was your alternative to lynch Beep? Someone on that team was going to die, no matter if you voted Beep or not. SO why was lynching Beep a bad idea (at that time).

He's made it quite clear that vollkan was his prefered lynch for the day. Not sure how you missed that one.

pooky, if you have to read into a sentence that was buried in the middle of a medium length post that's primary purpose was attacking vollkan and was the only occurance of you talking about TJM/Beep's alignment, I don't think you made any strong suggestions one way or another about him. You certainly weren't pointing out that lynching him was a bad idea until after his alignment was revealed.

[shaft.ed]

Thanks Claus.

2 CKD
1 shaft.ed

[shaft.ed]

Claus thanks for the extra tally work, but I'm only at 4

[shaft.ed]

OK I don't forsee myself as having much time today. But my suspicions are on TG and pooky at the moment. I'll probably have to wait til tommorow to get a case up.

for now

vote: Pooky

[shaft.ed]

OK here's my case against pooky. If any of it is a bit incoherent I was doing overnight experiments last night so working on 1.5hrs sleep.

My initial scum feelings towards pooky were largely because he was simply stirring the pot in regards to myself and prior to the TJM. Both of us are somewhat new players that, at the time, were in compromised positions.

Pooky would you like to do something besides fan the flames. These are you last four posts.

shafted def scum now

So many people sitting on the fence with regards to shafted.

WHAT WILL HE DO NOW THAT THE SHARKS ARE CIRCLING AND HE IS BLEEDING LIKE HE IS MISSING AN ARM?

DUN DUN DUN.

Dance for me Shafted,

Dance Baby Dance.

re:Volkan I believe in attacking, I do not fail to see anything.

he is panicking

look at the frenetic posting

omg owned

shafted so scum

And it's not just restricted to me, here are you insights on TheJiveMachine

vote JiveMachine

the time for pettiness is over.

It is time for bilateral action against the common enemy.

His posts added nothing to the discussion and were simply there to rouse others people's feelings.

Following this he goes on to debate vollkan as to whether or not reasons are neccessary for lynching anyone. I found this to be rather silly, not sure if it's a scum tell but certainly is not protown play to lynch people without reason.

Next act of the day is the TJM bandwagon to L-1. Pooky is the second voter on said wagon. Note that pooky's vote went on TJM before the incident with me. While he was posting that I was def scum he never moves his vote off of TJM, which is a bit odd to me. Also while pressure is mounting on TJM he maintains his vote there, while the bandwagon forms. vollkan, CDK and armlx all vote (in pooky's defense here I hadn't previously noticed how quickly these votes amassed in real time, he probably wasn't online to posit a defense, may rethink my position with this in mind). This action ties in with his case against vollkan and his vague accusations in regards to TJM/Beep's mislynch, which I'll discuss separately below.

OK so after the TJM near lynch and then the twist, I found it strange that pooky, who very recently had been calling me "def scum" and all that would begin to totally ignore me and try building a rather weak case against vollkan. In order to keep this from turning into the Great Wall o Text I'll just reference post 325. He basically went after vollkan for using percentages, having people ranked too scumy in his percentages, and only analyzing one side for summiness. He sticks with this throughout the entire day even after many people vouch for the fact that vollkan always uses numbers to rank people and vollkan continues his analysis of the other team. This smacks to me of scum trying to remove a power scum hunter from the game.

Next pooky goes off on his Frankly Speaking string of posts. Here he seems to accuse anyone that supported the TJM/Beep lynch, I'm still not quite sure what he was doing here. It felt to me like possible scum avoiding a pretty much inevitable townie mislynch given the prevailing sentiment at the time, followed by a blanket accusation to see if any townie infighting might take off. However, he may just have been upset about the fact that lynching Beep was a poor play, but he didn't realize as such until after the fact and was berating himself as much as the rest of the town. If this isn't the case I don't know why he didn't speak up before the lynch. Anyway my indepth reply to his post is on 550.

All tolled, I feel this warrants some scrutiny. But I do think that I am tunneling on pooky right now. I'll get my TG post up later this afternoon if I'm still coherentish at the time. Have to get back to the experiments.

[shaft.ed]

OK I don't forsee myself as having much time today. But my suspicions are on TG and pooky at the moment. I'll probably have to wait til tommorow to get a case up.

for now

vote: Pooky

any reason that pooky gets your vote over TG?

I feel that pooky has been playing consistently scummy whereas TG had a slip up or two. Also TG seems to be posting a lot more content so the signal to noise favors TG. I voted with someone that I thought to be scummy because I see no indication that TG and pooky to be in a scum group together.

[shaft.ed]

OK My case against TrustGossip.

Most of my case against TrustGossip has been made recently. I felt he was a fairly solid poster on D1, certainly the best contributor of team LU, but he did tend to follow others leads a lot. I think his pursuit of CKD and armlx following the quick rush of votes on TJM was warranted. I felt it strange that he was voting and unvoting TJM in order to get him to post. Now that he's turned up town I guess that could be considered moot.

Where he starts to get scummy is his play towards Jive after the "twist." This is addressed already throughout my other posts and it basically is summed up by he attacked Erg0 for doing something he himself had done (voting Beep) and he explained that his vote was simply a pressure vote although evidence was quite to the contrary of that:

TG, your MegaFoS on Erg0 for voting after you is just poor play. Your hiding behind the pressure vote is even worse. You do realize that with such small groups your pressure vote placed Beep at L-2. You also realize that it is well within the realm of possibilities that you had a second scum on your team besides armlx. Finally you maintain that your vote was placed in order to get Beep to post:

Oh, so you didn't really

want

to lynch him, you were just leaving your vote on him as we approached deadline in order to encourage him to post?

Did I stutter?

0_o;;

Yet at the time of your confirm vote you clearly were voting because you found him scummy:

When I was asking for replacements, I was envisioning the pot being stirred. I did not foresee the pot tipping over and all the porridge spilling on the floor.

Confirm vote: Beep

L/A still.

Add in the fact that Beep had posted five times on the previous page compared to your zero posts and something isn't adding up. If this wasn't FTA I would be voting with Adel right now.

Recently he seems a bit eager to move things along. Not really caring about the team leader but just asking one be chosen (not that he's the only one). And he's recently been trying to move out of the Discussion phase straight into the "twist" phase.

[shaft.ed]

Pooky I have to give you some credit, your playstyle is making my head explode, I just don't get it. It's making this game a lot of fun! OK on with the game.

Do you really think I was trying to get you lynched shafted?

Obviously I do, I see no other reason for behaving the way you did.

If I were, why did I not vote you?

I don't know. I've asked you this on many occasions can you spell it out for me. I obviously find near certain accusations of scum alliance without a vote to be very scumy as you can distance yourself from a mislynch once the town gets worked up.

You think my choice of not providing reasons is an active decision on my part?

Certainly, I've been asking for reasons the entire game and you make no attempt to answer me just reply with more questions like these.

Why might I choose to not include any reasons on voting you?

As I said I interpret this is scum trying to fuel a lynch without dirtying their hands. And I thought you just said you never voted me.

[shaft.ed]

Second-place suspicion is a common place for scum to put their scumbuddy (a manifestation of "FriendofScum").

Just curious when this idea surfaced. In games I've played most people say scum rate partners in the neurtal category.

[shaft.ed]

Erg0 I suggest you meta me more thoroughly before drawing your conclusions. I am not afraid to bus scumbuddies at all especially in a game like this where there is no risk of drawing suspicion for not being NK'd. Look how no attention is being given CKD or Adel following the lynch. I also prefer long discussions before lynching, and it should be noted that we had a member of our team contributing nothing the entire cycle. There's no way I'm going to hammer someone without hearing anything from that player. Finally this is a total mischaracterization:

vollkan puts armlx at 70% in 281

So my list is:-

Dean - 75%
Pooky - 70%
armlx - 70%
Erg0 - 60%
TG - 50%

The 70% is not in isolation.

[shaft.ed]

Do you think I believed I could get a lynch on you without providing reasons? If the answer to that is no, then do you trhink I really was trying to lynch you?

Have you already forgotten your multipage debate with vollkan about how reasons are required for a lynch?

[shaft.ed]

Given that you just told me how I should meta you, you'll forgive me if I don't take it at face value.

Meta aside, would you disagree that bus'ing is a poor strategy in a nightless game?

My point was more that you said you'd wait for vollkan's opinion, but didn't actually do anything with it when it came. One possible explanation is you were using the wait for vollkan as an excuse to avoid hammering your buddy, in the hope that the wagon would go away in the meantime.

If your point was simply to show that vollkan had weighed in why did you take the effort to post his readout of armlx, and why did you post his readout without listing other players on team LU?

[shaft.ed]

Possibilities for why I would do what I did that don't involve lynching you would be, "looking for reaction from you" "looking for reaction from others" "baiting scum with bad idea" "throwing ideas around and seeing what happens" I mean if a person like Armlx randomly follows you around, wouldn't you throw some illogical hate around just to see if he jumps after it?

If these were all things you were possibly doing could you show examples of you following up on them? I really dislike people doing things that can easily be a scum tactic and explaining them away as "I was looking for reactions."

[shaft.ed]

you really think it would be hard for me to get reasons for you?

Would you care to address my second point in a way that actually adresses it?

[shaft.ed]

So pooky given our recent exchange, has pretty much everything you've posted then been to watch for reactions and none of it "genuine" outside of you vollkan case?

[shaft.ed]

TG, you've mentioned that you don't mind being the guy that is sent to L-1 in order to get to the twist phase. You aren't the least bit afraid you might get hammered by someone before a mod checks in to send the game into the twist?


And thanks Claus

[shaft.ed]

33: Says armlx is looking scummy "pretending to mimic Adel's strategy when he really didn't" (I don't understand this)

This is after Adel revealed her random bandwagoning was an attempt to look scummy to pull out people voting her as an easy target. Then armlx later posted this:

Early game I acted moderately scummy to draw responses, responded with a fairly detailed analysis based on my observations and some gut feelings on intangible things I had observed. Basically, I did everything you said you did, except when you did it the actions were legitimately scummy (able to start harmful wagons past the early/random phase) and you didn't follow them up with any sort of logical analysis.

which to me was just utter garbage.

and that scum getting L-1 and L-2 confused tend to act less rationally (evidence?).

This may just be my lack of games played but in mini-495 dybeck played pretty terribly once the threat of lynch became imminent. Korlash also played very ... irationally when pressure was applied to him. I felt armlx was getting flustered and grasping at straws that's what I meant with that comment.

I also notice the main reason I'm coming under suspicion is that I didn't make much of a case against armlx, pressed harder against pooky but maintained them at the same level of suspicion. This is for two main reasons. The first is that I was the only person that I felt was really paying attention to pooky and I wanted to point out what I thought were scummy plays by him that others were missing. Conversely CKD and Adel were pretty much pointing out everything that I saw with armlx being scummy. His attacks on CKD were just ludicrous. Also I was very limited for time during that part of the game. My wife and I are starting up a business and we were at a 4-5 day training session during that period, my access was quite sporadic and I had trouble getting caught up after returning. I know real life excuses can be annoying for the game but I can pimp out our new website if anyones interested www.dahlimarketing.com [/shameless self promotion]

[shaft.ed]

pooky could you please address my recent inquiry.

[shaft.ed]

Can people start voting allready?

I don't like how almost everyone is sitting back and waiting.

Please vote.

Said the queen of sitting back and waiting.

[shaft.ed]

Holiday today, so this will probably be my only post.

I'm pretty sure I understand what pooky was doing. I still don't like players that play primarily for reaction, but after our "conversation" I'm finding pooky more townie than before. And no I'm not dense, I just have a very limited play experience. I know I post on site all the time but my game history consists of a newbie lurkfest, two normal mini's where I was NK'd N2, and one Open game that I played to end game. I haven't been exposed to many non-straightforward playstyles, so I have no experience reading them. Also having a conversation with pooky has felt like trying to nail Jello to a wall for me.

Anyway

unote: pooky

[shaft.ed]

I may be incorrect, but it also seems mathematically to be in our interest to have a confirmed innocent. Before the game was for scum to have at lesat one of three players standing, that is now effectively one of two. And having a confirmed innocent with the scum hunting ability of vollkan will be quite useful to the town. All this assumes the results are genuine. I see no reason to believe otherwise.

[shaft.ed]

I say we lynch TG and quick. His posts are full of noise and he has a very good chance of being scum.

Near is a newbie so I would feel bad about quickly lynching him.
I like reading shaft.ed's posts, so I want him to be in the game longer.
Erg0 is supposed to be a very strong player according to other players I respect, so I'm interested in seeing what else he will add to this game.

So let us lynch TG, and quick!

Hmm. Never had anyone tell me they like reading my posts. What is it the surprise endings? The lymmerics? The swaths of poor spelling?

above was meant to be

unvote:pooky

not trying to do anything Adelish with my voting.

[shaft.ed]

Isn't it possible that CDK is a scum himself? His reasoning of picking vollkan is understandable, but

Near this is a pretty garbage argument. What you need to think of is what benefit do you get from having either outcome (ie scum/town)? If vollkan is scum you get a large benefit because he plays very pro-town as scum and he would be very difficult to weed out. If he comes up pro-town he is a very good scum hunter who is now almost certain to survive the game since it's nightless. If TG is scum we get to a lynch a player that likely would be lynched eventually anyway. TG-scum would have to be one of three surviving players to have an impact on the outcome of the game. I don't see him surviving that long with the cast in this game. TG town saves us a mislynch. But this is offset by the fact that the town now has a confirmed innocent in vollkan so it's not really costing that much.

Also does anyone think the option of what the team leader gets to do could be different if he were town or scum? It seems odd to "reward" a scum who tricks the town into electing him team leader by allowing him to confirm an innocent, point out his scum partner, or falsely label a townie guilty so that they can be lynched following. I know this is meta'ing the mod but it seems worth considering.

[shaft.ed]

vollkan, very thorough analysis of TG. This combined with my suspicions following his reaction to the Beep mislynch makes me confident enough to cast a vote.

vote: TrustGossip

[shaft.ed]

What's your hunch again? That CKD is scum that's blowing his cover in order to get TG lynched?

[shaft.ed]

Hey shaft.ed I just realized you are in seattle. Me too!

So you're very Near then. *rimshot*

[shaft.ed]

I'm trying to work out whether or not this is potentially meaningful. @Shaft.ed: Could you explain why you rejected trustgossip?

Yeah the TrustGossip line was a pun. I like TJM's avatar much better. Love Radiohead. Never played with either before so I have no reason to prefer one over the other.

Doesn't like Dean saying he doesn't know where to place his vote since he has seen it as scum trying to look active Where?

Open 57, aoiqwe.

TG is the only LU he thinks is town.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. I couldn't read Erg0 or Dean due to lurking. I don't like lurkers and putting them at a more scummy level was also a form of pressure to get some posting out of them. I felt pooky and armlx to be scum D1.

[shaft.ed]

Near what was with the rapid vote unvote?

Adel why did you try to push that off to an ongoing game? Seems rather trivial to lie about.

[shaft.ed]

Adel why did you try to push that off to an ongoing game? Seems rather trivial to lie about.

I knew he was active from other games we are in.

mmkay. But it's pretty standard practice to mention such occurances. You can say so and so was active on site without siting the game.

[shaft.ed]

A bit surprised you dropped a vote after that analysis Near. Your scoring put me tied with TG yet he was the obvscum after it was all said and done.

In 351 he calls armlx "acting as scummy as possible". And then, unfos-es armlx because he "agrees with armlx's assessment on CKD"?!! What? [TG++]

So I guess you're not running with that CKD is scum idea anymore?

[shaft.ed]

I am re-reading my post.. to see if it makes sense.

Also, I didn't even realize that you had same number of +'s as TG, I didn't actually count. I didn't even finish reading all the posts. I just reached a stage where I was certain it was TG... and I acted on it.

So methinks TG's turning up town, right Near? Care to save us the time for Claus to log in?

[shaft.ed]

I am re-reading my post.. to see if it makes sense.

Also, I didn't even realize that you had same number of +'s as TG, I didn't actually count. I didn't even finish reading all the posts. I just reached a stage where I was certain it was TG... and I acted on it.

So methinks TG's turning up town, right Near? Care to save us the time for Claus to log in?

Is what I did that suspicious? Really?

Well usually scum will wait to express regret for their vote until after their mislynch turns up town. It really really feels like you are setting up for explaining your way out of a mislynch. I guess time will tell.

[shaft.ed]

Ummm.. I have no idea how we are going to coordinate such a system. How about we all put in an age and then average the tallies of each players submissions? Maybe allow the most pro-town players to go last so that scum can't rig the system?

[shaft.ed]

Um Near that looks like an ongoing. If it is please request Claus to take down the link.

[shaft.ed]

FOS = Shafted

for being the first to "know" TG will turn town and trying to blame me for it.

My comment was clearly based on the fact that you look like very obvscum with your posts following you vote. Nice try deflecting your actions there.

[shaft.ed]

*facepalm* Says the guy who hammered, then wished he could un-hammer.

I really thought that would earn a headdesk.

I submit we use a popcorn system with the first person chosen by die roll and vollkan automatically going last since he's our confirmed townie.

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[shaft.ed]

If people do like my idea and allow for my dice roll going by the first page Pooky would then be represented by 4.

If you want a voting system for who lists first, I'd submit my support Near going first.

Also any freaking clue what the Ages will do?

[shaft.ed]

Event Randomizer.

Original Roll String: 2d2-1 (STATIC)

2 2-Sided Dice: (2, 1)-1 = 2

And an extra info I forgot to add in the previous post: you are not allowed to say your own Real Life (tm) age during the discussion. Good thing the idea was not brought up yet, anyway.

What about profiles?

[shaft.ed]

Doh NM

[shaft.ed]

I don't really understand the difference in your two lists outside of you putting the confirmed townie from the youngest to oldest position, and removing pooky from the game. It also seems odd that you would provide two lists. That would be a scum tell to me showing that you are doing something different than your desired play so as to look more townish, but scum generally don't come out and say it so clearly. Bit perplexing.

Also your case against me is a bit late to really mean anything at this point. If you were so sure of it, I don't understand why you bring it up during the FTA and why you voted TG. Your only new point is the action of armlx. I can't really defend for another player's actions, but a vet with his experience ought to know how to frame up townies.

[shaft.ed]

Does anyone think there might be an accuracy reward? I don't see why else we would be restricted from posting are actual ages in thread.

[shaft.ed]

Well, anyway, House said so, so here is your task for the FTA:

you

have to discuss among yourselves, and attribute an AGE in YEARS for each player in the game, based on their playstyle. No two players can have the same age.

ABR does the you above infer collective you or each individual? Man it really would be nice if we had a y'all.

Near: Emotional teen angsty according to own description

13

Adel: Throws caution to the wind, living an adventorous life

22

CKD: Although usually confrontational alpha, seems to be growing out of it here

29

Erg0: Mildly reclusive 30 something

33

Vollkan: Calm well spoken sage

50

Pooky: Grumpy old man "get off my lawn" who knows more than he lets on

72

[shaft.ed]

Pooky Erg0 numbers please.

[shaft.ed]

OK quick list someone double check if you want:

Erg0: 34
CKD: 31
Near: 20
vollkan: 39
pooky: 36
shaft.ed: 33
Adel: 44

rounded

[shaft.ed]

Ummm... Did you guys read the end of yesterday?

vote: Near

[shaft.ed]

Near I would highly doubt anyone is random voting to open D3.

The "Umm" implies that I don't understand how anyone could not view you as scummy following your breakdown after the TG hammer.

[shaft.ed]

Post #780

*facepalm* Says the guy who hammered, then wished he could un-hammer.

I really thought that would earn a headdesk.

Doesn't this sound like shaft.ed is "excusing" my voting on TG? It sounds like he's agreeing with Vollkan, that my mistake was most likely due to my lack of experience OR like everyone seems to think my immaturity.

This headdesk argument is complete bunk. The player who ellicited headdesks my previous game with vollkan to which I am refering to was Roach in 492 who turned up as scum. Headdesk is performed in response to seriously illogical arguments regardless of alignment.

[shaft.ed]

Day 1 has reminded me of the folly of attempting to use post-hammer reactions as scumtells. TG's sudden turnaround after the Beep! lynch looked bad to me, and he came up town.

I personally don't think you can compare the two. Near was upset about it BEFORE TG's alignment was even revealed. That's the difference.

[shaft.ed]

How is that relevant? It's not.

But, OK, my headdesk argument sucked.

It was pointing out that your headdesk argument sucked, seems relevant.

Near, your "outburst" of emotion following the TG lynch was one of the scummiest things I have seen in my breif time on MS. I have more against you but lack the time right now to put a case together. I will get that up in the next day or so.


Also CKD and Erg0 going to give reasons, or just waiting for reactions from the rest of the staff?

[shaft.ed]

Reason: I think she is scum. Almost everybody that sucks up to me turns out to be scum.

Think I missed the sucking up behavior. Care to site references?

[shaft.ed]

Only your guess? Why do you have to guess what the purpose of your own actions are? And you're the one accusing me of making up reasons after the fact.

[shaft.ed]

vote:shaft.Ed

You were supposed to vote for CKD, you've completely ruined our votecount symmetry. Any reason for the capital E btw? Oh and the vote.


Happy scumday Erg0

[shaft.ed]

Pooky, you basically lurked through the entire day yesterday. I would not like to see that happen again. Please post.

Adel anything to say about this:

it is always tricky stating a case against your scumbuddy without bussing him and while sounding sincere. Good job.

[shaft.ed]

Am I the only one that is starting to view this thread as some weird debate between Young Student Vollkan and Wise Tutor Vollkan? It's weird seeing one person mentor himself.

And yes "generate discussion" can be a null tell, but I see it as a slightly town tell since some scum on average don't like to draw attention with such play.

Oh and your quote tags are wrong Near said that not me.

[shaft.ed]

Attacking Adel does not make shaft.ed a wagoner.

Voting someone generally makes them considered a wagoner.

If he really believed that, then shaft.ed is completely convinced that Adel is a townie?

I would not say I'm completely convinced but at the time it did give me an early read on her as town.

I really feel like you're trying to look like you don't know what your doing in order to milk this "newbie" label as much as you can. The age listing probably gave you the feedback you needed to be sure it was a possible strategy.

And why the vote switching again?

[shaft.ed]

Erg0, I interpreted her post as a joke. She told me she wanted to keep me around cause she liked reading my posts. How could anyone seriously enjoy reading my game posts?

[shaft.ed]

OK as promised analysis of Near. This will be a partial PBP in isolation. Sorry Adel this is a long drawn out post. I guess you're going to have to vote...Oh wait.

Let it be noted that Near replaced into the game mid D2 after the FTA but before the twist. Leading vote getters were pooky and TG at 2 each. His predecessors effectively skated through D1 and early D2 without any possible analysis leaving his slate clean upon entrance and no record of commitments.

0: Argues a bit with vollkan's reasoning behind pushing against TJM. States he wouldn't have mislynched him. Bit suspicious.
1: Makes a valid point linking me to armlx. Points out that in the same post armlx states that scum would never vote for their partner and subsequently votes me, while also leaving himself open to vote TJM in the future. I disagree with his dichotomy of interpretations as he states that armlx was either trying to take down an easy innocent, or trying to bus a partner early. I would argue he leaves out the third possibility that armlx was tying himself to me by stating scum would never vote for their partner, and then voting me. However, armlx wasn't really in much danger at the time so I don't know that he would be thinking along these lines. Feels townish.
2-4: Back and forth with vollkan involving FoSs for me and vollkan that are quickly retracted. This is the first taste of the newbie wishy/washy Near we've all come to know and love. He goes through a lot of complicated 1's and 2's and A)'s and B)'s just to set up a false dichotomy so that if TJM is town armlx's actions means I must be scum. I would argue there are many other reasons for his actions, especially as I was the apparantly easier wagon at the time. This section made my head hurt, was overly complicated and I felt it didn't really amount to much. I would suggest experiencing first hand to get the entire jist if you wish to. Feels a bit like scum trying to set me up.
5: Puts forth the idea that scum would have divided into a group of two on armlx's team and one on NLU, thus leaving one scum on each of the original teams. Not a bad argument and a slightly useful insight. Slightly town.
6-7: Posits that CKD is possible scum since he chose to investigate vollkan and not TG his top suspect. Greatest hits of this section include, vollkan is a good doc regardless of CKD's alignment; if TG turns up scum CKD could just be bus'ing him throws spin on the too townie fallacy for good measure. Bad argument, not seriously scumy.
8: Even after the week argument, says he really starting to think it likely that CKD is scum, did I mention very possible. Can we say mixing certain verbage "really, very" with totally could be wrong about what I'm saying verbage "likely, possible." This has a tinge of scum due to wording.
9: After his great insights to CKD made him very likely possible scum, he asks whether TG having opinions of people that fluctuate all over the map is really that much of a scum tell. Contradictions between conclusions of CKD and TG vs. evidence is striking. Scummy.
10: Re-affirms that even with the CKD sidetrack he still think I'm mafia because armlx was trying to bus his "partner" while lynching TJM by voting me. I really think this argument has been pretty discredited, but maybe more talking about it would clarify Near's/my alignment a bit? Also says CKD is his second hunch, and is reserved about expressing this opinion even though he "just knows it's him." Again with the unceratin and certain verbiage mixed together. States he's hoping CKD is scum so he looks good for taking him out. Tad scummy.
11: Mildly argues with Erg0 about the relevance of TG's inconsistencies relating to scumminess.
12: Responding to CKD's smackdown of Near's "case" against him. Again restates he thinks CKD to be scum prefering a TG lynch so investigating someone else. Says he didn't even notice Adel (are you reading the same game as the rest of us?). Votes CKD because he was told to. THen can't come up with three reasons, not even one for his suspicion of CKD. Says he's not voting because he's new and humbled.
13: unvotes CKD very rapidly
15: would definitely read this section first hand. This is his scoring of scumminess early game. In the end TG and I come up with an identical Near Scum Score. But in some kind of orgasmic PBP analysis (not going to happen hear unfortunately) he is totally persuaded that TG is scum.

WOW AND FINALLY 351, 353, 354

SEALS IT

for me.

In 351 he calls armlx "acting as scummy as possible". And then, unfos-es armlx because he "agrees with armlx's assessment on CKD"?!! What? [TG++]

Kind of odd posting.
16: This is the vote post. Totally over the top mello-drama:

I am re-reading my post.. to see if it makes sense.

breathe in...
breathe out...

Vote: TG

Note that while reading the most to see if it made sense he didn't notice that his hammer was dropping on someone with an identical scum score. Bit scummy.
17: Weird posting some more here. This is the "I wish I can take back my vote. " post. Scummy.
18: Says he's changed his mind on CKD. Then says he didn't actually count his + scoring system.

What the hell was it for then, just to look like you're scum hunting?

. Then he admits he didn't even finish rereading the thread. He was just "certain" and acted on it. How convenient that he can claim ignorance. Very scummy.
19: He frequently gets emotional and worked up when playing mafia, especially dropping hammers.
20: States that no matter what TG's alignment comes up he would look scummy because he's either bus'ing or mislynch hammering.

Yes, I wanted to take my vote back. I don't knwo! I wasn't sure anymore.

This is more of what I think is a newbie facade. Kinda scummy.
21: Near's response to vollkan pointing out the obvious contradiction in Near's recent post string:

Oh well, I know saying this could make me more suspicious, but: I wish I can take back my vote.

I just reached a stage where I was certain it was TG... and I acted on it.

How are these two posts cogent with each other? You were certain, but now you aren't?

As CKD said: What changed?

They are related to each other because 1) I thought people would be suspicious BECAUSE I reacted all suddenly SO 2) I explained my unusual circumstances for it.

Yes, I was certain at the time. THat's why I voted.

And yes, almost immediately after I submitted vote, I wasn't sure anymore.

I kept hitting refresh wanting to hear Adel's or CKD's approval.

What the hell is that last line about. Before you didn't even know Adel existed. And why are you seeking approval from anyone? And why specifically Adel and CKD, didn't you just suspect CKD as scum trying to mislynch TG? Scummy.
22: He regreted his vote because he calmed down. Does not compute to me.
23: Responds to my more terse assessment of his post vote breakdown. Asking if it really was all that scummy.
24: Attempt to link to ongoing game demonstrating his emotional play.
**About here is where TG"s alignment is finally revealed**
25: Tries to flip my accusation of his scummy play post hammer by saying I knew too much about TG's alignment not him.
28: Comes at me with full guns blazing with a 4 point argument. Point 1) is what I consider an already debunked attempt to link me to armlx based on armlx's vote originating my early wagon. Point 2) is also what I consider a debunked argument regarding my early sloppy statement of why I unvoted Adel. Point 3) Is completely backwards stating that armlx didn't buy my persuasive argument ( I thought you just stated it was garbage) so he must be my partner. I would imagine a scum partner would be quite relieved that his buddy was managing to get himself out of trouble, don't know if harping on it would be the common play. Point 4) Is him trying to flip my accusation of his response to voting TG on to me for accusing him. Garbage, scummy from my perspective. (*Note I will be happy to go back to points 1 and 2 if anyone would like to rehashthem)
34: Opens up the voting with more garbage attacks on me. Says my stating his play deserved a headdesk meant that I was excusing his behavior as not scummy. votes me.
35: Says my refutation of his argument was irrelevant, but his point was bunk anyway. Starts playing the poor little newbie getting picked on routine. Nicely coincides with the town demonstrating they find him immature as a player.
36: Points out that people don't show their regret following a vote but before reveal because it would look really suspicios.
37: After Erg0 points out that being really suspicious might not be such a pro-town way to play Near states "Hmm. A question no one asked before. I haven't thought about it." First what the hell is a question no one asked before? WOuldn't most questions be unique? Then he says "If I have to make a guess." I would like to ask again, why the hell does he need to "guess" as to what he was doing? It makes no sense. Kinda scummy.
38: After vollkan then points out that Near was expressing regret to avoid culpability Near states"Dang. Pretty sharp response.
That was only my guess. So maybe." Oh how convenient that your reply to Erg0 in regards to your own action was "only a guess." Maintaining such wiggle room is very suspicious to me. Scummy.
39: Uninterpretable back and forth with vollkan about why I'm scummy. Freaky self teaching + time machine moment.
40: OK so after I raise the point that people generally don't have to guess about their own actions Near replies:

Because sometimes I act without thinking, don't you ever do that.

Note how much this contrasts with his actual TG vote post:

I am re-reading my post.. to see if it makes sense.

breathe in...
breathe out...

Vote: TG

Seems like a lot of thinking went on in there to me. Hella scummy.
41: After vollkan further shoots down Near's attacks on me, I still "feel scummy" to him even though his "evidences suck." Then asks the rest of the town to make sense of his posts for him. More newbie card.
42-46: More illogical back and forth with vollkan in regards to my Adel vote early game. Although the string seems to end with this post:

I am ashamed.

Unvote

Post 47 comes 5 minutes later:

Vote Shafted

Vollkan says not enough evidence.
But there is some evidence.
and there is hunch.
and no, it's not because i made a mistake day 1

Just so you know you weren't in the game D1.

[shaft.ed]

Also in regards to my reasons for voting Adel being contrived. I made this post:

unvote vote: Adel

armlx I'd really like to hear where you got 80% scum read on me, and 20% on vollkan so early in this game.

So you would rather see some bullshit statistics? I'm moving around & stirring the pot.

Do I look like an easy target to you?

So you're going for the "I'm going to play scummy and then call people scummy for voting for me" tactic?

The day of my vote and 2 days before post 183. It clearly demonstrates that I was interested in Adel's reaction to me.

[shaft.ed]

Well obviously letting Near be fired will not bother me.

[shaft.ed]

Adel, what on earth are you doing?

Wondering the same thing.

Erg0, Care to explain why you're voting along with her if you find her suspicious (yes I know I did the same with pooky and TG yesterday, but it's a valid point).

[shaft.ed]

shafted your thoughts on Near unvoting you because you were at -1?...was it a ploy to save his ass, or does he really want information in the next 48 hours?

I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. If I were a in his situation I would prefer anyone's lynch over mine since I know my alignment as town but cannot know anyone else's. Therefore lynching anyone but yourself would be in the town's best interest. Add on the fact that I'm his leading suspect for scum and his wanting to be careful just doesn't compute. However, we've seen how wishy washy he has been throughout the game. Also I agree that I found Adel and Erg0's quick votes on the troubling side. Adel's moreso as, has been pointed out, Erg0 has recently called for my lynch.

I'm also curious who he was worried would come in and drop a frivolous hammer. Pooky hardly ever posts or votes, and CKD & vollkan are two very deliberate players. I seriously can't imagine any of them wandering into the thread voting and screaming HAMMAH!!!@!11 without any thought.

I would write this up a scum trying to look townie by playing the caution card. But Adel's vote does give me pause. I'm looking at this the way vollkan is. Is there anyone that who is more scummy than Near? I obviously don't think there is given my previous posting, but I am a bit worried about Adel's recent play. I should have time to get in a read of her before deadline.

Also, I'm getting uncomfortable with Pooky skating through this game without posting. While I don't think this is the situation for pressuring a lurker, I would seriously like to see him post.

[shaft.ed]

Near there were a couple things in my PBP of you I would like addressed:

says he didn't actually count his + scoring system.

What the hell was it for then, just to look like you're scum hunting

?

And yes, almost immediately after I submitted vote, I wasn't sure anymore.

I kept hitting refresh wanting to hear Adel's or CKD's approval

.

What the hell is that last line about. Before you didn't even know Adel existed. And why are you seeking approval from anyone? And why specifically Adel and CKD, didn't you just suspect CKD as scum trying to mislynch TG?

[shaft.ed]

If you are a scum, this is a good post.

And if I'm town?

[shaft.ed]

says he didn't actually count his + scoring system.

What the hell was it for then, just to look like you're scum hunting

?

Do you really have to ask this question? What do you think my answer would be. I think it's obvious. Shaft.ed ++

It's not obvious. What is the point of a scoring system if not to look back over it to see what your feelings were in summation?

[shaft.ed]

Well I believe I have made a pretty good case against Near. I don't see too many people responding to it, however, so maybe I'm falling into the newb-tell trap. I didn't get time yesterday and I don't think I will today to reread Adel or Erg0 completely. I would much prefer to let Near die, though I would consider an Adel or Erg0 lynch acceptable but I do not think I would vote towards it. Pooky is also really bothering me with his absence at this critical time. I've seen him posting on site but he is avoiding this thread. But, as I've stated before, I don't think this is the right time to pressure a lurker. However, he probably knows that.

Sorry for the tortured reading I think each sentence had a minimum of one but/however/though. To busy to make it more readable, but I hope the information is clear.

[shaft.ed]

shafted, have you reread Ergo yet?

Very busy day in the lab. Had a brief skimming, and while his TG vote seemed a bit out of place it wasn't that far off. He had me and TG 1 and 2 following his own analysis. Also didn't like his vote on me that was crossed with Adel, but again he had cast his suspicion on me well in advance. From my opinion of Near, Erg0 is not as scummy, and no really coherent case has been offered.

I must admit I am second guessing myself a bit in regards to Near. I feel if he were scum, his buddy would at least by posting something to move discussion away from him. If someone can get a more thorough analysis on Erg0 or Adel I might bite, but with the evidence in front of me I prefer Near TBH. I will say I'd lean Erg0 over Adel. If Adel is scum she bus'd her partner and hasn't tried to cash in on it. Usually scum will at least try to tie people to their bus'd partner to make it some sort of trade off. I haven't seen Adel doing that.

In regards to pooky, I obviously didn't like him early game. And he conveniently disappeared once my suspicion of him abetted. Really really don't like the fact that he's lurked through the last lynch and this mod imposed deadline.

CKD, no comments on Near's alignment or on my problems with his play?

vollkan why no interogations thus far?

Adel why no pretty voting montages?

[shaft.ed]

for reference I crossed with vollkan above

[shaft.ed]

Crap.

Crap-There's less than an hour left, or Crap-People are starting to scrutinize my play and there's less than an hour left?

[shaft.ed]

vollkan why no interogations thus far?

I've put N's logic to scrutiny a few tunes now but, as I have said, little is leaping out at me as "interrogable". That's the reason I am finding this so difficult. I've done my usual analyses, but they aren't getting me anywhere interrogation-wise.

You really found this exchange more newbie than scummy?

says he didn't actually count his + scoring system.

What the hell was it for then, just to look like you're scum hunting

?

Do you really have to ask this question? What do you think my answer would be. I think it's obvious. Shaft.ed ++

It's not obvious. What is the point of a scoring system if not to look back over it to see what your feelings were in summation?

The point was exactly that. I just failed to execute it the way I planned.

[shaft.ed]

vollkan you had Erg0 at 55 and Near at 65 what changed your mind?

[shaft.ed]

God this sucks. The confirmed townie and the person I find most likely to be townie are both disagreeing with my choice and there's ten minutes left.

[shaft.ed]

I'm not stalling I think Near is the scum. Do you think Erg0 is his partner?

[shaft.ed]

deadline passed minute before Adel vote

[shaft.ed]

I told you I think Near is the scum.

[shaft.ed]

That was a bit unnerving. I don't know if it would have mattered, but it looks like not moving my vote worked out.

Proposals:

pookythemagicalbear- Isn't already?
CKD- Pushy McGee
vollkan- Wall O Text or Bricklayer
Erg0- No Has Gimmick

<--- LOL

Adel- Logic's Crazy Sister

-Albert

[shaft.ed]

Can they all be the same as in Adel's example?

[shaft.ed]

Adel you're not even trying, those aren't personalize at all.

Adel- Oman Strapon Fantasy

[shaft.ed]

And I don't even own a suit.

[shaft.ed]

pooky- Cummy Bear (remake of Adel's)

[shaft.ed]

Dude I checked out mechanical suits and they're freaking awesome (just like me).


I don't think it comes with the complementary asian lady, but it's still cool.

[shaft.ed]

vollkan if you're going with a play on my name Seol's already done better with a typo (I hope)
he once called me shat.fed

[shaft.ed]

Well I kinda liked CKD's idea of popcorn nick'ing, but Mr To-the-point had to get to the point and all....

[shaft.ed]

Vollkan is confirmed. I was liking CKD a bit more before his pressuring me to save Near yesterday, but still thinking him more townie than the others. I'm up for an Adel, Erg0 or Pooky lynch today.

Good news is if there are three scum, and vollkan is truly confirmed (don't see any reason to believe otherwise) then all we have to do is identify one other townie.

[shaft.ed]

I find it interesting that you would rank yourself below someone you don't know the alignment of.

[shaft.ed]

I agree with Erg0 on this one. Rushing yesterday almost let Near off the hook. And the twist may have been critical in getting him lynched.

Pooky please post your thoughts on this game. Here's some motivation if you think it will help.

vote:Pooky

[shaft.ed]

At the rate pooky is posting he's not going to get a post in before lynch if we try to actively avoid the twists. Something to keep in mind.

[shaft.ed]

eh, I have pooky in the same category as Anix: damned annoying lurkers who intentionally avoid anything that might somehow indicate their alignment. I consider their lynch to be equivalent to throwing the dice for a lynch.

I thought you hated lurkers? I haven't played with pooky before, or Anix at all, but I am a bit surprised by this stance.

[shaft.ed]

@Adel and shaft.ed: What are your thoughts on waiting for the twist?

I'm trying to weigh the balance of a 7:3 nightless where the scum don't have to reach majority or tie. It sounds like it would favor scum so the twists would be mostly pro-town or just for interest.

The first twist could go either way, second was decidedly pro-town, third would likely have been anti-town if Near didn't ended up on the chopping block.

I think I agree with Erg0's sentiment though. It seems rash to self impose deadlines to specifically avoid a twist. I say play as normal. If a lynch comes it comes, but I certainly don't think rushing is in our best interest.

[shaft.ed]

I would imagine if I were a scumbag and there was a timer on my buddy's life, I'd try to get a mislynch to save his ass.

Nobody else's really tried to save Near's ass from being fried by a twist. So yea I think you're scum.

I suggest you reread the events of that deadline. I fail to see how Adel and CKD are not included in your logical flow.

[shaft.ed]

For a couple guys afraid of the dreaded twist, you certainly like to spam up the thread. Curiosity killed the cat and all that jazz.

[shaft.ed]

I just got this crazy idea. Maybe we're supposed to actually use the nicknames we made up? Why didn't you think of this before Mr. to-the-point?

[shaft.ed]

Well it looks like vollkan was right about avoiding the twist, this is certainly a high risk situation.

I haven't had the time to completely read the thread, but I did noticed Pooky is currently at L-1 so

unvote

Will read up and post more in a bit

[shaft.ed]

So I'm not liking Adel's actions today. Very much don't like the fact that Adel pulled the trigger on someone that a couple posts previous said they were going to make a case against her. Erg0's case wasn't incredibly strong but it did raise a few good points. Had he not been killed, one would think it might have been a bit more thorough. I'm favoring an Adel lynch, but would also support one on pooky at this juncture.

We have sent backup journalists to maybe get an INTERVIEW with this doctor as soon as his status stabilizes. More on this after the break.

Erg0 if you could please keep up with the thread, it looks like you might get to post again.

[shaft.ed]

CKD, you have to remember Adel didn't have complete information as to who had Daykills. It wasn't clear at the time she shot Erg0 that we all got a kill.

[shaft.ed]

Adel would you care to reply to Erg0's 1134?

[shaft.ed]

Also

and I had no idea if the scum's daykill was one shot or not.

I don't see how the scum could possibly get multiple daykills.

[shaft.ed]

Think you mean ABR on that quote pookster.

[shaft.ed]

Adel would you care to reply to Erg0's 1134?

[shaft.ed]

Bah, I'll get your quotes tommorow. Too much procrastinating in the GD today.

[shaft.ed]

Trimmed it down a little bit. Still think it breaks 500 words.

On day 1, Adel was the second vote on armlx's lynch, apparently following ckd. She did push him a bit after she voted, but she never directly called for a hammer as she does on day 2 with TG. She also approved of the Beep! wagon for most of the day (see below).
On day 2 she pushes the TG wagon all the way to the bank, partially based on what I think is fallacious logic (again, see below).
On day 3 she started off being certain that shaft.ed was scum, switched to Near for very little reason and then unvoted altogether and apparently let the clock run out. I'm not sure whether the late vote was deliberate or accidental, but I don't see this as a tell for reasons I've already explained.

- She spent a lot of time talking about how scummy Jive around the time the teams were split (29, 31, 33). In 44 she's less sure, thinking he might be befuddled town, then in 46 she asks me for a meta read on him (possibly because I was in another game with him at the time). I don't believe she ever comments on my response that he seems different from the other game. In 48 she says again that she thinks Jive is town, but after Beep comes in and drops the hammer she implies in 54 that she doesn't believe his vote was accidental, then says in 55 that she wants to lynch him tomorrow. After I put the second vote on him, she says in 58 that she endorses my vote. By post 61 she's swung around, saying "If you want to identify scum look at Beep! Beep!'s wagon", then discredits her own case in 62 when I point out that she supported the wagon, but again doesn't move her vote. She eventually pushes TG's wagon all the way to lynch.
- In post 78 she advances the theory that armlx delayed his hammer to give his buddy some breathing room. Again I point out that this is incorrect and she goes for the ongoing game defence before eventually admitting that she didn't check her facts.

- Case against me today has been one strawman or vague condemnation after another. She's using what I call the "stick and move" approach, throwing as much stuff as the she can think of at me and then dropping the points that I successfully refute (e.g. "easy target" comment in 118, false dilemma in 120, meaningless drivel in 123, poor attempt at a meta in 124, ignoring my response to craplogic from 127). You can't lose an argument if you refuse to engage the other person, I suppose. Her failure to follow up on post 124, where she asks "have you ever been this combative as town before?", is the biggest problem here. I deliberately replied without an example to see if she'd follow up, and she just let it drop. Someone who was interested in lynching the right player (as opposed to just lynching anyone) would have asked for an example there rather than just taking my word for it. This is exemplary of her entire case on me: she's making it up as she goes along, and shaping others' opinions through simple repetition rather than actual evidence.
- Adel says in 41 that she thinks that Pooky and I would be toughest to nail as scum. She later says in 84 that I'm "supposed to be a very strong player according to other players [she] respect

", the basis for which is later clarified as being BM's comments in the Scummies judging. This leads me to wonder what the basis for post 41 was, since it was made much earlier in the game, likely before BM would have made such a comment. I've played with Adel before, but if she hadn't arrived at a conclusion about my ability based on those games (apparently relying on BM's comments instead) then where did 41 come from? A comment like this out of the blue just raises my defences.
- In post 86, Adel tells a floundering Near to hammer TG. Less than 20 (game) posts later, Near does just that. Circumstantial, but notable.

[shaft.ed]

pooky why do you debate people about the meaning of townie whenever someone points out you haven't done anything all game?

[shaft.ed]

I don't know that I agree with that idea, especially given the fact that LU took longer to lynch. However, Dean/Thanatos was non-existant pretty much all of D1 so they'd have been one short.

[shaft.ed]

pooky why do you debate people about the meaning of townie whenever someone points out you haven't done anything all game?

[shaft.ed]

I would like each person to make a post consisting solely of the name of the person they most suspect of being scum.

Adel

[shaft.ed]

I'm not sure right now but as above I'm suspecting Adel the most at themoment. I need to reread early CKD. I've been thinking him town all game long, but the pushing for an Erg0 lynch at the Near deadline was a bit dramatic.

Also I've had a bad feeling about pooky most of the game, but he's not contributing enough to get any decent read on him.

Really don't know where to go from here. I'll get another post up after my CKD reread.

[shaft.ed]

Shafted is the sudden interest in me have anything to do with the fact that I brought up that Near's unvote of you when you were at -1....doesnt seem to make much sense does it, especially knowing Near's alignment.

I was liking CKD a bit more before his pressuring me to save Near yesterday, but still thinking him more townie than the others.

This is still pretty much my sentiment, I'd rank Adel > pooky > CKD scummy left townie right. I suspect Near was again going overboard trying too look like the concerned townie as he did post-TG lynch.

[shaft.ed]

Adel I must admit I'm intrigued. I haven't seen you mention armlx outside of a mild back and forth with CKD.

mini 518 demonstrated how astute ckd cn be as town, and I figure that if he is scum than his hunch may just be a scum-distancing technique.

Adel looking back on the armlx lynch, it seems like your vote going along with this post was what cracked him. Any insights since then?

[shaft.ed]

I was just reading over some of D1 and that stuck out.

Basically CKD had a hunch and had voted armlx, but he pulled it off in the run up to TJM. Once the teams twist was announced CKD said something to the effect of "I'm probably going to vote armlx." Then you made the above statement after I questioned your armlx vote. Then armlx had a bit of a melt down trying to claim he was using a strategy similar to yours early D1 to explain away some of his voting patterns, which was obviously a stretch at best. Then CKD seemed to be committed to a vote given his earlier comments.

Just curious what you thought of it since your original plan seemed to be 1) CKD has a correct hunch or 2) you would try forcing CKD from distancing to bus'ing.

I know later on CKD explained his hunch, but I haven't been able to find that post yet. If anyone sees it please post it so I can reread that section as well.

[shaft.ed]

Would you choose to lynch yourself if it would gurantee I would be lynched next?

What kind of question is that?

[shaft.ed]

OK anyone have any idea when the deadline gets here? For some reason discussion died after the daykill. I've been up all night so I'm a little incoherent right now. Still haven't finished CKD reread. But I don't think he'll be moving into lynch territory for me. I'm Ok with an Adel or Pooky lynch, favoring Adel.

Anyone want to comment, or compare candidates reasons etc?

[shaft.ed]

@ Pooky, I think it would be in everyone's best interest if you choose between me and shaft.ed before CKD and vollkan weigh in.

I agree with this assessment. I would very much like to see pooky develop and share some thoughts on who is scum. His low profile is troubling me.

[shaft.ed]

shaft.ed's agreement with my assessment agrees with me.

Adel's agreement with my agreement with...God I gotta stop procrastinating.

[shaft.ed]

Agree with vollkan, other viable option is to have Adel hammer since she's spent her daykill.

[shaft.ed]

Um vollkan...

Votes are reset after a day-kill.

[shaft.ed]

Adel, with your last second Ergo vote, it looks like you had just logged in as you have one other post in a newbie game at 5:39 and that one is at 5:41. Could you tell me what your intent was with that vote?

[shaft.ed]

No I was referring to when Near's clock ran out.

[shaft.ed]

Why did this game die? It was moving along so well the entire time. I'm a sad puppy.

[shaft.ed]

I'm scheduled for overnight experiments again today. If these go through I'll have time to get some thorough late-night analysis in. But I'm glad to see the game picking up again.

My opinion of the CKD to Near interaction was basically what vollkan said here:

N was so self-assured around CKD, but his attacks were so dreadful.

Near was also filp-flopping his suspicion of CKD. I hadn't really noticed anything majorly wrong in CKD's responses to Near, though I was surprised that he didn't find Near scummy.

[shaft.ed]

Adel, with your last second Ergo vote, it looks like you had just logged in as you have one other post in a newbie game at 5:39 and that one is at 5:41. Could you tell me what your intent was with that vote?

[shaft.ed]

Wow, an eventful weekend. Still LA, but I find Pooky's actions quite odd. I really don't see how anyone would possibly believe that vollkan would daykill in such a position, however Adel seems to also have found it genuine. On the other hand I was finding Adel more scummy previously.

I think we should get a couple interrogations in ASAP as deadline is approaching.

[shaft.ed]

pooky why didn't you at least try asking vollkan if his kill was real? Time stamps seemed to be close enough that you could expect an answer.

[shaft.ed]

Adel, unfortunatley from my perspective this is game is 50/50 right now. I'd also like to point out that the last two hasty decisions didn't exactly work out so well for us.

[shaft.ed]

I didn't anticipate Pooky killing CKD and throwing up a 50:50.

You didn't plan that one out too well. No way he's going to shoot the confirmed town. That's a pure unadultered scumtell.

Adel vollkan was investigation confirmed. There's a huge difference there and you know that. Why do you seem so hurried?

[shaft.ed]

First suggests that scum will want to concentrate themselves. This really isn’t convincing. I don’t buy the game theory argument she makes (this isn’t a RTS) and it seems to just be a shaky means of arguing that scum are elsewhere – making it a perfect deflective tactic for Adelscum

I didn't realize she set that argument up so far in advance. Interesting.

[shaft.ed]

Well what did you expect me to do, just say that I was tossing suspicion onto Shafted to try to see what Armlx would do?

Why have you always phrased this specifically as what

armlx

would do, and not what scum would do?

[shaft.ed]

looks pretty accurate to me.

And pretty scummy

[shaft.ed]

OK Adel. You've stated earlier that you weren't supposed to live this long. However, your reason for killing Erg0 was effectively self defense. It seems that Erg0 killing you would have gotten what you wanted, his death, if you felt he was scum at the time. Care to clear up the contradiction?

[shaft.ed]

Allright, vollkan's summary of Adel's early play is worse than I remember. Going off of her late actions which I found scummier than her early game play, I don't think I could possibly vote pooky in this situation. I'm going to be incredibly pissed if pooky pulls this off as I've been finding him slightly scummy all game and he's lurked through about half of it, but I'll be equally upset if I let Adel get away with this flagrant scumminess.

I'm pretty much ready to vote for Adel, but will wait until the conclusion of vollkan's analysis.

[shaft.ed]

this will teach me to not be active and involved.. better to lurk then try erratic behavior in hope of getting things stirred up and scum exposed.

"39: Rejects armlx's play of acting scummy

Odd that she of all people would be so quick to call bullshit on a claim of intentionally chaotic play

"
probably because I am familiar with it I can tell if it is sincere or not. Notice how armix really lost wind after I called ullshit. Even though ckd beat me to the armix wagon I felt his lynch was my success.

I've got to agree with Adel on this point. armlx was not being intentionally chaotic during the early phase. He was just playing poorly. I felt his claim that he was intentionally using an Adel-like strategy of "stirring the pot" was a decent scumtell since it seemed pretty fabricated to me.

[shaft.ed]

I mentioned this during the armlx wagon prior to Beep's vote if I recall correctly.

[shaft.ed]

From my memory of the events, this was going on during my trip so I wasn't in thread. When I was reading it, I felt that armlx was BS'ing but I'm pretty sure I was not the person to point it out. I'll check the log and get back to you.

[shaft.ed]

OK armlx first posts:

Early game, where I was probably the scummiest, I was just experimenting with some different things to pass the "random" voting stage. Namely acting as scummy as possible without ensuring my lynch. The goal was to set up a scenario where I drew the most reaction and therefore most information possible.

Then you post:

so how where those actions of yours

Early game, where I was probably the scummiest, I was just experimenting with some different things to pass the "random" voting stage. Namely acting as scummy as possible without ensuring my lynch.

doesn't compute.

This all happened while I was away from the thread. My next post in thread contains:

armlx is looking scummy pretending to mimic Adel's strategy when he really didn't.

Also had this exchange with armlx on the topic:

I guess I was just a little more cautious with the tactic than Adel, which fuels my growing case against him as it seems anyone with pro-town intents doing that would be more careful not to cross the line.

Funny, I think I would argue the exact opposite. Hmmm...

[shaft.ed]

The only thing I feel I can point to in my defense is that I just don't play this way when I am scum...

If you can give me a link to a representative game or two as scum I'll give it a read. I do find it odd that you would propose to have two clearly discernable play styles as town and scum.

[shaft.ed]

Yes I did and do.

[shaft.ed]

Well then by your own ommission you surviving this far into the game indicates you are more likely to be scum.

[shaft.ed]

because he had been riding my coattails up till that point.

Because at that point I did not know who the scum were, so I couldn't just do things to seee what scum would do, I would do things to see what specific people would do.

Pooky rereading I don't see armlx riding your coattails. Care to point out where that is occuring.

I would like it to be by Shafted Daykill rather than a lynch.

Sure thing.

[shaft.ed]

Armlx is riding my coattails on day one because his vote basically follows mine around.

Early D1 voting

shaft.ed: Pooky
Erg0: shaft.ed
CKD: Pooky
Adel: Pooky

Pooky: CKD

armlx: Erg0

DH/Near: TG
vollkan: TG
TG: DH/Near
Erg0: armlx
Adel: TG

Pooky: Adel

armlx: Adel

(didn't unvote first so vote did not count)
Adel: TG again
TJM/Beep: armlx

armlx: CKD

Adel: CKD
CKD: Adel
shaft.ed: Adel
Erg0: DH/Near
Adel: Erg0

Adel: TJM

Pooky: TJM

armlx: TJM

CKD notes armlx following Adel not pooky

-pooky begins inflammatory attacks on me

-next post Adel seems to be strongly running with this

armlx: shaft.ed

TJM/Beep: shaft.ed
Adel: fake votes shaft.ed

-pooky ends inflammatory attacks on me

-Obtained FoS's from TJM/Beep, TG, and vollkan in during that period

Not sure if the armlx following is as strong as you indicate. But there is a trend.

[shaft.ed]

Must keep up barnacle status.

Vote Adele

at least until we get a logical reason the mafia would be in the first group. Sounds like diversion to me.

It's weird that he actually admits to it with this post. Is that what he's saying here or am I misreading something?

[shaft.ed]

Stopping in before I head home.

I'm not online on Saturday's so I'd best have a concensus for the kill tommorow. I'll give vollkan the night to confirm his choice of Adel since he's in Aussieland. Adel and Pooky's choices seem obvious. I'm leaning heavily towards Adel with the PBP of vollkan to add to my previous suspicions. While Pooky hasn't contributed heavily, nothing is overly suspicious about him. If he has pulled this off I'm going to be quite annoyed.

[shaft.ed]

Vollkan, thank you so much, I was not looking forward to tommorow.

ahaha thanks. Oh man, you were at an inch from winning, literally

All the good doctors have been given a single day-kill.

I was seriously queezy after Pooky daykilled CKD. And he figured it out. Got very lucky here.


Near, you did a great job of getting bus'd. The unvote was a bit off but only CKD thought much of it.


Don't have time for more, but I'll get my thoughts up tommorow.

[shaft.ed]

To be honest, if I was the last scum, I'd probably lost. After pooky used his day kill, I would have confessed immediately that I don't have a daykill. Because I would have thought that even if vollkan doesn't suspect me, he will surely make me do a daykill to end the game. That's what I was thinking anyway. Very fun game to follow even after I died.

I was planning on fingering Adel as bulletproof scum. I doubt it would have worked. But vollkan would have been the decider and he had a pretty pro-town read on me. Better than giving up.

[shaft.ed]

Yeah if you had only explained why you wanted me to daykill...

[shaft.ed]

1 scum player vs. vollkan, ckd, ergo, pooky and me should have little or no chance of winning.

Adel thanks a lot for the compliment. I was planning on having something like that in my losing statement.

I honestly thought I was a dead man walking on page 8. Somehow vollkan formatted his questions towards me in such a way that I could clear up my sloppy play. So I was buddying up to him in hopes that when I got lynched armlx could at least take vollkan out of the game. When armlx died and vollkan got cleared by CKD, that plan was gone. About half way through D1 I thought there was no way I was going to win this thing, but I was having a ton of fun with the players/format and learning a lot so I really wanted to stay alive as long as possible. I wanted to bus armlx, but figured with how scummy I was looking and the fact that he wouldn't reveal until after my possible lynch the scum could be down two after the first day, so I had to hang back and look scummy doing so in the following days. I think I got really lucky with the twist involving the Near lynch as the drama seemed to add quite a bit more credibility to the bus'ing. I'm still amazed that no one else found his play scummy, after his TG hammer I thought I wouldn't be able to bus him anymore. And obviously I got crazy lucky with vollkan killing Adel last night. Vollkan, I'm curious what my odds would have been. Had you logged in and seen my ability to not kill Adel with her and Pooky very likely screaming for you to kill me but not able to with too few votes and no daykills, and me telling you Adel was a bulletproof scum, which way do you think you would have swung?

ABR, the set-up was a lot of fun. My favorite part was bringing back the Hezbollah reference at the end, I'm glad scum won so you could use it. I really wish I had had a partner more often during the FTA's though. It was fun to have the thread open while being able to communicate with your partner, but I was only able to use that to any strategical advantage with Near leading into D3. Also what was the point of us making degrading nicknames of eachother, just for mod laughs?

Anyway, thanks guys I learned a lot from this game. I feel a little bit bad that it ended the way it did though

[shaft.ed]

I made the mistake of assuming he did. Lazy.

I definitely got lazy down the stretch.

I'd like to propose the vollkan effect. When a player with known analytical prowess makes consistent and thorough PBPA's, other players in the game will lean on this analysis as a sort of cliff notes version of the game and become detached. This effect is greatly increased when said player is a confirmed innocent.


Oh and I forgot to thank Claus for stepping up and keeping the game going when it looked doomed. Thanks

[shaft.ed]

Also what was the point of us making degrading nicknames of eachother, just for mod laughs?

To add tension between the players, plus the uncertainty factor.

Guess that didn't pan out. Though I am still trying to figure out why I was proposed to be a mechanical suit. I was disappointed with the poor showing of the final product. Really wanted some memorable names to come out of that.

[shaft.ed]

your avatar at the time and the show "Entourage" inspired the name "mechanical suit"

But my avatar was a sorcerer from Brotherhood of the Vizjerei, how's that work?