Tin Vision, I like the story and description. Sounds like a great town...
Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!
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LaptopGun Goon
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haha OF, I am not sucking up to the mod. I just like his writing.
Anyway couple things.
1.I have been in one game with CKD. I was a townie and he was protown in open 50. Ill check it and post my thoughts
2. This random name changing is pretty stupid. Yeah he shouldnt have been all I'm clever- but I'm not buying why he got votes for it. Anyone care to explain as its looking like making a mountain of an anthill, or trying to set up a little pretext of a lynch.
3. You're right shteven. There have been a lot of double votes. However imnot concerned unless it goes to triples as you said.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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ok in open 50 CKD was the Vig. He had a nightkillofone of the mafia randomly. He said after the game was abandoned that he learned it was not always a good idea that the Vig kill N0. If I learned anything, I'd say one or more of our mafia are refugees of that game and didn't want to deal with the possibility that he was vig again- long odds but he was lucky and was a pretty smart player.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Yeah Fonz I probably over thought that one. I guess I didn't take the idear into account and it indeed merits discussion as it appears it has. So there wasn't some grand conspiracy of ex-open 50 members to NK CKD. Certainly he'd be someone who is a pretty good player, perhaps even an asset to the town. But the other point, that a little newbie research would result in the same result of NK'ing him, is pretty damn good. And then there is the simple "it WAS random" and I was wrong and overthinking things.
Speaking of newbies...
Oh great role claim hilarity, or rather the possiblity of it on day 1. I agree the argument is pretty bleeping weak, but in the name of due dilligence I'd like to hear what Six Aces has to say. I will say that Jesse Gunn is really giving off mixed signals here and I'd like to evaluate Six Aces before I make up my mind on it. I've found that I as someone lacking experience can behave in the same manner. That fear of getting yourself lynched is always "fun" to deal with.
I'm gonnaunvoteJesse Gunn, to that effect.
A a parting thought, I still have a hard time swallowing the Wesaq argument. It seems to be overblown, but I just don't know.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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I have to agree with justin. It is more likely my opposite number screwedup but is telling the truth. Six aces, I find your doc claim to be false. I've seen gunn's demeanor and I've seen yours and I find his consistent with scared Newbie. I just don't buy your role claim.
vote six acesShoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Strangely appropriate avatar, Peers.
Anyhow I will agree that we went fast with Aces, but due to the actions of our apparently newbie power role we had to. I hate it. But I think Aces is mafia, and his defense however trunkated was not particuarly brilliant. The only thing that makes sense is that... Well that or the mafia fanned the thing. Its also possible one or two dumped Aces for jsut bad luck getting caught and are willing to make the trade 1 mafia for a cop.
I sincerely hope we have a doc or two... and one better not have just had a noose put around his neck (I don't believe so, but I'll achknowledge the possibility).Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Phate how do you know Ryan was killed by the SK?
Anyhow I think the mafia have decided a confirmed, or so I believe, townie of jessie's ability is less of a danger than one of the two who was offed last night. I'm gonna have to reveal some posts, and I suggest others do the same, to see if either said anything potentially dangerous to the mafia or SK. It is potentially damaging that Jessie is still alive without a doc protect, but I find it totally reasonable that the mafia attempted to confuse the town. We now have the possibility that Jessie is scum instead of having a confirmed townie. He did reveal a Mafia though, so unless he turned on his scum buddy (which I just don't see- Day 1 under no real pressure) I have a hard time believing it. Or he's the SK and got extremely lucky he hit scum on Day 1 in a blind guess. Or Jessie is such a criminal genius he is going to out the other mafia as if he were the cop and hope to survive alone until the end of the game. Not that those last two are ridiculous or anything
I don't like outing the cop esp. on Day 2 with 3 mafia left and no guarantee of a doc, but Jessie you do need to tell us who you investigated. I want this mafia ploy over and done with so we can focus on other suspects.
Oh and if it's not obvious: If we have 1 or more doctors please do not out yourself or selves. The town doesn't need another power role in jeopardy.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Farside, unfortunately I can come across as "wishy washy" as I try to be balanced and open minded in my posts. I'll try to be less open ended.
On the two interpretations debate, "the mafia think" sounds more like a scum rationalizing their thinking while trying to remain seemingly I innocent. There seems to be implied inside info, too. Hence it looks more like an act or perhaps a Freudian slip. The other one sounds more like the person doesnt have inside knowledge and looks less of rationalizing what happen. Or that's how I see it.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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I've only been in a handful of games there were a couple newbie games last summer which appear to have been deleted. I was in one or two with Fonz and SSF, so they can talk about that. Oman may have modded one of them, I'm not sure. The one "real" game I've been in was Open 50 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6384) which got abandoned after almost 1/2 a year of activity/inactivity punctuated with some modkill hilarity. Several memebers of this game are refugees of that. Let's say things are better in this one.
Mod if I'm not suppose to reference abandoned games even though all the participates have moved on to other games, please delete the link. I'm sorry if that's the case.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Thanks for clearing that up, Oman. And thanks Shteven , I didn't know if I was doing something that was asverbotenas posting a role pm.
So yeah, there's my attempt to document my playstyle. It took more posts than I really wanted to, but I'd rather have my facts straight.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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haha yeah. That one was great because the 2 mafia just sat back and then hammered me when I was down to one vote. Part of the problem was I really didn't answer enough stuff. Hopefully I can use such lessons to play better and actually help the town.
@farside I have not been mafia. I've been mislynched and night killed, but I've never been scum. There has been cases where I've looked scummy, of course, much to my displeasure.
@Spacecase, I'll give you a short rundown. In theory it shows how players acted in one game. If they are acting differently, it may reveal that they have a different role. What that means eactly can be highly subjective and open to interpretation. I believe, while by no means a smoking gun, can be valid evidence and has its uses. I suspect the mafia could also use it to their advantage, as in they use it to railroad someone. Or perhaps distract from other salient issues.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Myself, Phate, Shteven, and Oman all appear to have one vote each but I could have missed some, I did a very quick scan.
If posting from a Wii is anything like posting from an iPod Touch, I feel for you buddy.
While we're waiting for an official vote count, I'd like to figure out a few things from the vote of ysterday. I have something I'd like to address about the voting yesterday that I just figured out. Intially I thought, unless my count was inncorrect, that players piled on after Six Aces already had enough votes to be lynched. This was Shteven and SSF. Would anyone find it below the mafia to pile on after a scum buddy's fate has already been sealed in order to blend in with the town? I thought so. However, I was wrong. I thought Peers had hammered Six Aces and I made a comment about his advatar being appropriate. I was mistaken, as everyone knows that Peers voted for Jess. Oops. SO Shteven cast the deciding vote, hence my count is wrong int that regard. That does leave SSF casting a meaningless 11th vote, but it's within a reasonable time of Shteven's post. More importantly, he could have miscounted like I did. So that leaves me in the same place I was talking baout scumtells and metadefenses.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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It was noticeabl enough for me. Then again, as I said, it could mean nothing. SSF has been pretty much protown vibe (granted the game has moved alarmingly quick so the body of posts for everyone is pretty low). Shteven seems to be the same way. Sorry for bringing weird things to attention.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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I can't make up my mind. I can't figure out if this is goon natured scum hunting or rampant role fishing.
Well welcome to the game Rigel. I addressed the language thing in 143
I also have speculated on this freudian slip thing, but that had petered out, up until recent developments .LaptopGun wrote:sorry about that. I thought you were abbriviating "killer" to mean Serial Killer. I wasn't even thinkinglike you were that it was a generic catch all for whichever nightkill. My bad.
Fonz we played twice before, did I miss count with you too? The first time was a newbie game. You led a crusade against a female player on Day one who turned out town. I had decided that the mafia had stoked this, which one did (as it turned ou). On Day 2 both mafia attempted to get you lynched, I defended you with the argument that your behavoir was so scummy that no scum would try it. No person would be so bold. I then almost got one of the mafia lynched, who I had suspected was, but unfortunately I went a little funny in the head and changed my vote. Which means I bought a role claim defense and went after a scummy looking town person (I think it was ChronX). The mafia of TooMuchPete (or whoever replaced him) and aquia night killed me then later ended up winning the game. The seond time we played was you getting replaced into the old New C9.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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I just noticed another FOS so I thought I'd address that. I don't attempt to be wishy-washy, it just happens that way. There are also those cases when I try not to step on toes and that ends up robbing me of clarity. I try not to get all hellfire and brimstone until I vote and/or am convinced someone is scummy.farside22 wrote:@kabenon007:Anyways either people listen or they don't, but you shouldn't just drop a case with a non response. You should be more aggressive. I wondered if you dropped it because you may have been trying to buss you partner. It seemed an odd play.FOS LapTop(you don't have to be wishy .
And while I have it quoted, I might as well try to come up with a possible explanation for kabeon's dropping of the wasq thing. I hardly see it as an attempt to bus a partner (hypothetically). Perhaps, and if kabeon wants to he can address this, he was saving the discrepency until he felt he could use or need it. Kind of like an ace in the hole if wasq came back and subsequently acted scummy.
Anyhow I have something else to talk about:
@ Justin, I need a bit of clarification from you. I found your analysis of kabenon reasonable and certainly needs addressing. However I find it's at odds with what you told him previously in post 162 (fyi page 7). You talk about his suspicions of Shteven and specifically talk about the logic of the hypotetical freudian slip. I do not mean to suggest that this is bad analysis. What I want to know is, why does this not appear on your subsequent post explaining a whole host of new problems with kabenon? It seems you relegated it to a throwaway line about k's attacks on shteven. I would think that that only helps your case even more that kabeon never responded to you directly. He attempted to clarify it to others (such as Fonz, Vokan, and Farside when they questioned him) but you have not followed that line of questioning your self. Are you saying that as you put it "Quick thoughts" have been surpassed?
Relevent posts quoted below:
Justin Playfair wrote:Quick thoughts:
Kabenon,
I understand what you’re going for with Shteven, but the problem here is two-fold. First, to have real meaning the kind of slip you’re suggesting here would either have to be part of a pattern of behavior or be far more blatant in thinking of a situation from a scum perspective. Second, in and of itself, Shteven’s statement doesn’t approach the issue from the perspective you’re suggesting it does. I mean, from any reasonable examination of the situation it would seem most likely that Jesse Gunn would have been doctor protected last night.
Given that Shteven, even if he were scum, could not know that Jesse Gunn was protected last night if as scum he killed another target, and given that it would seem a logical assumption for town or scum that Jesse Gunn would be protected for anyone playing regardless of alignment, why would you consider what Shteven said to be particularly indicative of a scummy slip?Justin Playfair wrote:I was a bit curious about Vollkan’s vote on Kabenon. Having reread the thread to check on Vollkan I find myself now a bit more curious about Kabenon.
Kabenon,
The fact that you have made the following two posts so early in our proceedings is of interest to me:
And then later, giving an example:Kabenon007 wrote:A word of warning Phate, vollkan always gives off town vibes...
All right, so you have warned us twice that Vollkan may be scum however town he may seem. Do you have any reasons for suspecting Vollkan beyond his usually seeming town that would warrant two warnings about him in the first nine pages?Kabenon007 wrote:I agree that a particular scumtell, or even town tell, cannot be placed on everyone. Take vollkan for instance. His large posts, contentful, appear pro-town. But he also does them when he is scum. I want to wait for a recent vote count before I vote, mostly because I don't have time to check myself. (I'm lazy and busy, sue me!)
So I guess I have two questions about this.
Who are you waiting on a vote count to vote on? You’ve already voted Shteven, making a rather persistent case against him. Is it Vollkan, which might be suggested by the linkage in the above post, or someone else?
Does your above statement about waiting to vote mean that you no longer believe the vote you already have on Shteven is appropriate?
This post bothers me some:
First, because the post you made which you are referring to here is this:Kabenon007 wrote:Just expressing my opinion, Shteven. That way, when people ask what it was, I can go back and point to a specific spot and say, Look there it is! Instead of saying "Well, judging from how I worded this post, I felt XXX." Much more concrete, more helpful to the town.
If you could please explain both how saying that Jesse might be scum or he might not but we can find out later is “concrete”, and how it is “helpful to town”. I understand how it might later be useful to you.Kabenon007 wrote:I think we should keep the idea that Jesse might be scum in the back of our minds, just as a last thought kind of thing. We can scum hunt without worrying about it too much. If we can't figure it out, we can always go back and examine him thoroughly later.
Finally there is this, in response to Farside22 asking you about your suspicions of Wesaq:
While it is perfectly appropriate to ask the question you are asking in return, it would also have been appropriate to answer Farside22’s question. In this case it actually would provide something “Much more concrete, more helpful to the town”.Kabenon007 wrote:Why do you want to know?
Why did you choose not to answer Farside22’s question?
Anyway, thank you for any answers provided. For now:
Vote: Kabenon007Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Shteven I didn't want to bring it up until Justin returned and answered my question, but it's what I've been noticing. Justin hasn't acted like himaself since he "pressured" our resident cop to reveal a scum (and by result himself as cop). I don't know what's up but I miss his posts. He really does a great job with things... but that's the problem. I imagine h'd be a wicked good mafia goon.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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Hey Justin. I thank you for getting back to me and addressing my concerns. I hope I can answer what you asked. Moreover, I'm gonna have to put my cards on the table I don't like the polarization of this thread. It seems the
1. Contradicts seems not to be the best word choice. It is not an out and out 180; I see it as an inconsistancy in your questioning. What I was trying to get across was that it would have made more sense if you continued with the issues you brought up. You are a logical person and enjoy using it, so there seemed to be a classic oppertunity for you.
2. You seem to be better than most posters at phrasing things. I don't mean to take anything away from my fellow posters, but there I said it. You tend to be excellent at it. You commenting other's posts is pretty good, even if it's just echoing it.
3. I think some of the other posters have been persecuting him. You don't seem to be, but then agin you are letting others speak.
4.The evolution thing can reveal major differences. I wouldn't rely on it unless it seemed key evidence, but I by no means dismiss it out of hands.
5. Ok there's a 1000 pound elephant in the room and I can't avoid it anymore. I do not like letting a small cadre of other posters explain what you said or want to continue to say. There is a really large anti-kabeon sentiment right now. You may not be the spearhead, but it really gained momentum when you first questioned him. I have to decide if the mafia are trying to wagon him. However I have to wonder if they benefited from your always piecing analysis or if you deliberately set this up. Yes I am trying to add things up. Both have some evidence backing them up.
And then there is the third possibility, that I'm completely wrong. No mafia are in on it and I'm slowing up the lynching of scum. I don't know how this would play out. Here's a freebie- your reactions to my questioning look genuinely townie. I never said Kabeon007 seemed innocent to me. He's a suspect. I need to question him and I need to get to it. I talk too much, I post too much. But I want to be heard. I don't go quietly into the night.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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LaptopGun Goon
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I was going to ask kabenon why he seemed really irritable with everyone, whether they were calling for his head or simply trying to get a staright answer out of him. Well...
kabenon: "I've been feeling sick"
I guess that explains it. So you've been sick so you've had a short fuse. All right, I'd probably believe it more if you had said it before but I'll buy it. That doesn't excuse everything, but Ill keep it in mind.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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[quote="Justin Playfair"
Well, my quick thoughts were expressed. But certainly I am more suspicious of Kabenon007 for the behavior I pointed out in my later post than I am for the poor accusation of Shteven.[/quote]
I just saw this and this was a type of answer I was looking for originally from you. Thanks, and sorry I didn't see it when I saw your post. Does not change what I said; it is something I consider in my course of action.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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kabenon, you definately said he was acting differently in the game you played him with. Please explain how this would not mean he's town. If you are going after other games, please sat what happen in other games.
I want to believe you, but this isn't adding up.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I should just hammer him and end this day, but strangely I believe he's a townie. However, Kabeon your actions were completely inexcuasable today. You weren't very difficult to set up for a wagon and for that it's no surprise. I don't belive anyone else is going to believe you're townie and unvote, so the town is now gonna be down another townie. Is there anything else you want to share about volkan before someone hammers you? Any other pearls of wisdom?
This also doesn't mean the real Roger Clemens is innocent, either.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Haha. No you aren't pissing me off.
Here's my reasons not voting. I don't mean to go off on Justin here, but I can't seperate my musings about his behavior from how this day has gone and the case against kabeon.
1. I still don't trust Justin. It's a shame as when I am sure he's town (like the previous game) it's great to hear what he says. I just can't shake this idea that he's mafia and letting other players do his talking for him so he doesn't come off as scummy. This is not enough for me to vote him or even disregard his logic, but it's really effecting how I view it.
2. It seems possible Kabeon got wagoned with Justin poping in to fuel it.
3. The fact that there hasn't been a lynch yet really tells me that he's town. As others have said, it's so long and drawn out that no one wants to touch it. The mafia "failed" here in that, if this is indeed a mafia prodded wagon, because the town should have just jumped on.
4. If kab is town, then good call on a role claim without powers. I think most of us woud laugh if you had claimed cop or doc. If he's scum, well, damn. I fell for the role claim.
5. Kab, if you are town, be glad I didn't hammer you and you still get time to talk. Yep it could be my out clause if I were scum and Kab was town. But guess what, I'm town and I didn't feel comfortable voting with a wagon that I feel was dubious at best.
Thanks, Oman, I'll keep that in mine if I ever get the chance to be scum in a game. I'm town, so that doesn't do me a lot of good for ou game.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I will attempt to address the latest questions.
This what I get for opening my mouth in order to try to allay my fears that Kab was a townie. I can't say I've helped my own case, but I'm sticking to my guns. I don't like the wagon, it's inevitible that someone will hammer him, and I have doubts about his guilt. Yes a lot of them boil back down to just how the votes stacked up. But I think it's reasonable.
My belief Justin has been running the wagon is two fold, neither of which is very strong on its own. First I believed Justin had exibited an inconsitency. He answered trying to say it was both he didn't want to beat a dead horse and he was letting other people explore his earlier point. I characterized it as letting others talk for him. Second, Justin's tone seemed to have changed after he and Jess Gun got into a real spat. Remember the great line "Is there something you'd like to tell us?" in response to Jess Guns's hilarious reveal as the cop. I agreed with the case Justin put together, but that could have just as easily been bussing his scum buddy. Re-reading his posts, I noticed he mentioned the possibility of bussing a couple times in there. Perhaps a Freudian slip (what number would that be in this one and this will be another player accused of making one)? And then I've talked about it alot. None of my reasons are particuarly good. Far fetched, I know. Notice I'm not voting for the "bogey man" (as Justin elloquently put it), as I'm unsettled by his play. , but It's what is in my mind.
On the other hand Justin has down decidedly pro-town things. Who knows (well besides Justin and TinVision).Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Oh. Crap. Well I was wrong again and went after a power role (see our previous abandoned thread for that hilarity).
The Kab lynch was the only thing really worth doing as much as I hated it, but I still think it was fanned by the mafia.
Thanks Jess for confirming me in the eyes of our townies, but I think at least Oman is starting to grumble why you are still alive. Maybe this will help. I'm curious why there was only one night kill. This is going to start the inevitable "someone didnt submit a night kill" vs Doc protect. I want no role claim if there is a doc, but I think we have a doc and he protected JessGunn again. Of course I could be wrong...
I see four options, some of which support the idea he's a cop and some others neutral:
1. Doc protected Jesse Gunn who had been targeted/
2. Doc protected JG who was not targeted.
3. Doc protected someone else and Jess Gunn just happens to not have been targeted.
4. One of the night killers didn't submit a kill.
Obviously 1-3 assume the mafia and SK targeted two different people.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Umm, yeah Oman. Your right. That possibility completely slipped my mind so I guess that needs to be edited in. I never thought of it because I am not the SK, and I dont think Jess Gunn is either. Sorry I keep calling her a man as well.
I have to agree with Rigel for one very key reason: I completely forgot Melody Man was part of this game and who he replaced was. I knew nothing about him so I re-read, but I still dont know much. I will caution that it is by no means a smoking gun, but I think MM owes us an explanation.
I did a review on who Justin put heat on. This is not an exhaustive list, and it's brief cuz I need to get back to a term paper. Please see for yourselves and tell me where my interprtation is weak or wrong, because this was done on the quick.
SSF (random vote), MadCrawdad for that name fiasco, Wesaq for more naming hyjinx, Spacecase in an apparent hypocracy with the CDK night kill, Peers for a ton of issues Justin saw in 2 posts, Six Aces (who got lynched as Mafia), <night> phate for apparent role fishing and bad numbers, Kab (ended up getting lynched) , farside for far too quick answers and really begging for more role claims, me for considering him the boogie man, and Shteven for thinking he was scum.
Three things jump out at me:
1. He really didnt like people asking about power roles. Har-har. But seriously, whenever he felt someone was speculating far too much or potentially role fishing, he called them on it. You could have your the mafia's reason for killing right here.
2. He did not like people calling him scum. Hmmm, I wonder why? Stupid me. Shteven is also in this catagory and had similar, if less grandiose than me, concerns .
3. Kab, Phate, and Farside where the people he questioned after the night. Potentially he night investigated one of the three. Since he stuck on Kab and he's been a confirmed townie (if a dead one), I don't think he investigated him. Mind you, I don't even know if immediately questioned has any correlation to night investigation.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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This sort of goes along with my last post. I believe Oman is town because he is trying to work out all of these statistical probability. I do not believe the mafia would "waste" as much space going into them. I find it interesting, but I have never been interested in math and statistics so I'm reallly just going on the conclusions . On a hypothetical level, it could be scummy if Oman is trying to confirm Jess as a cop in order to night lynch him. That would mean Jess is mafia, though (could be SK as pointed out before). Or Oman and Jess are both scum partners and trying to put up a facade of scrutiny. This again seems dangerous of getting one or both caught. I dont find it likely even if I dont have fancy statistics to back me up .
All right, unless I see something something scummy subsequen to this, Oman looks like town.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Wow, I had a brain cramp. The sentence "That would mean Jess is mafia, though (could be SK as pointed out before). " should read "That would meanOmanis mafia, though (could be SK as pointed out before)."
On a purely speculative note, I would find it hilarious if Jess was not a cop but a vanilla townie and just guessed right Six Aces was scum. That is what we call suicidal behavior for the town, as he could just be relying on guesses. Odds of this happening: not bloody likely (thank God).Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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1. Fair enough. I gave a reason why I think it's fine. You disagree. Why dont you take the next step and talk with Oman about it. I said what I had to say and I admited I'm lazy when it comes to statistics. If Oman were to do something crazy, I'd by all means mention it.
2. I should have said night kill instead. Sorry I was just completely stupid when typing.
3. If Oman is scum, wouldn't he want to confirm Jess is the cop so he is worth trying to night kill him? If he's not, the scum would want to know if there is another resason worth lynching him for (ie serial killer).Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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ABWOP the other guys posted when I was trying to post. Fine, you want to go elsewhere. So you want to start a spacecase wagon? I've tried to talk about other people, but I keep comming back to it because nobody else is really striking.
So who are other good suspects. I say Spacecase and the people Justin in thoery could have investigated, but lets here what you guys have to say.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I will agree with volkan. If he is a newbie, I dont see a lot to gain by piling a bunch of votes on Spacecase. I hope it doesn't scare him off. I see nothing scummy presing him, I will just caution that I would prefer to not scare him off and need to integrate another replacement into the game. Of coure it's just as likely he isn't comming back and really his replacement will have the lovely task of trying to convince everyone he is town. Argh. This game makes my head hurt.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Welcome dahill1. I wish this could be a better greeting, but I have to call you into question.FOS dahill1
This is for after he gets back, but Iintendto vote dahill1. I refuse to vote until he is actually back, but when he is back and does not resolve these issues to my satisfaction, I will vote him. Dahi1l jumped into the game and saw fit to attack the player most of us think is the cop (I'm not going to rehash the argument earlier). He may have made a noobie mistake; however he then turns around and FOS than votes spacecase. Quick change of thought+ quick accusation+ quick unexplained vote does niot look good by itself. Both his posts angainst Jess and spacecase together look like a very inexperianced scum more than an inexperianced townie. I agree with what has been said. This looks like a case that mafia want to push the stalled spacecase wagon, because that right now is the case with the most traction. I will also point out that Melodyman left without explaining himself and his few moves were not exactly pro town either. Admitedly he probably wouldn't know what Melody Man was thinking, but he should try to explain what his behavior was. A townie should be able to do that much at least.
I hate to push a player who has just joined, but this course of action has the potential to reveal a scum and/or bring new dialog on spacecase. Space case is also the next person I'd like to hear from- he needs to explain himself. That looks like a better option than screaming someone is scummy because they aren't posting until we are all blue in the face.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I don't know about your first idea. Hopefully someone else has an opinion on that.
I think this is a better idea. The mafia have me as a confirmed townie already and that could make me a target. I say, at this point, don't give them more ammo unless something comes up (like a wagon that's getting out of hand). Obviously, if you find a scum you can come out and tell us as it's not like you're keeping a secret.Cipher wrote: The other thing that I'm thinking is that we've probably got a doctor protecting me, so I won't give out innocent results in the thread any more unless the doctor dies or the player I investigated is in danger of being lynched. I figure that the less the scum know about who's confirmed town the better.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Not much more to go on right now. He answered a lot about what I had (major) issues with and this Oman/MC fight is just fascinating right now. You can believe I haven't forgotten dahil1, though.The Fonz wrote: Also, everyone seems to have given dahill a pass on the basis of his response. I'm not sure, if the initial thing was really worth attacking, then his response was adequate. And LTG's attack on dahill's entrance was uncharacteristically forceful, to then drop it pretty much immediately... something's odd there. Not necessarily scummy-odd, but I'm not sure of the rationale.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I agree with your sentiments about it being true for Phate. However, being a tad presumptious about Spacecase, aren't we? (You do add an important disclaimer, given that barely half the needed votes are on him. But notice the difference in effects by putting important things in parentheses. My post goes from an out and out accusation on you to understanding I am taking you out of context. I'll get to this in a second).dahill1 wrote: That is true and could very well be true for phate as well.
but for right now i want to focus the attention on spacecase, so we can see what happens after he's lynched (if he is)
I must point out that this thinking is one of the reasons the Kab lynch became inevitable. And we all know how that turned out. A lot of people thought that way. Hell I did. I am concerned that the mafia latch onto one central premis or mistake in a player, then attack him until they are blue in the face. I think the latest one is the flip flop of SC and "newbie mistakes." I'm gonna do a cross reference of who keeps making the same arguments aginst SC as they did Kab and has now been against Oman and apparently dahil (that one includes me). I will not be on tomorrow, but I have a pretty good idea who this turns out to be.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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ABWOP I didnt really explain my first point. The "in a second" stuff is this. Mafia gradually advance a wagon by insuating somthing Stuff added as after thoughts prove more damaging to the person under scrutiny. The mafia person is not connected to it because it wasn't their main argument. Someone like me picks up on it and plays off of it- they get the blame for attacking an innocent. The original main argument becomes something all together different by the use of parentheses or side thought or whatever.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I'm back. Sadly my re-read and analysis really only told me that everyone who's posted in this thread has looked scummy at various points . What a great use of time... Oh boy. Moreover my original boogey man theory still looks possible (so maybe the same mafia forces are at work), but my prime suspect Justin turned out to be cop. So it isn't possible.
My time was spent well in other things, just not looking this stuff over.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Cipher, in many cases people can do that. Doesn't matter whther they are town or scum. THe player doesn't want to look scummy, so they try to make it ok by saying "Yeah in many cases this is a scum move, but see I know it is so I'm being reasonable here. Don't call me on it." Or something like that. Of course, notice I don't say it's worthless. Catching a player in one could be a potential scumtell; unfortunately it's just as easy to catch a power role in one.
You brought up a very interesting case. I think it was a good idea to; moreover, you are not sticking with the flow of the wagons... er eventsShoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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@Fonz I am more inclined to believe that Spacecase is town based on 2 things, neither of which are particuarly strong. I think the stupidity factor seems to say stupid town than stupid mafia. This is admitedly speculation, but I would have thought that scum partners would defend him by now. Additionally, today's wagon bears an awfully strange resemblance to the one on Kab, and we know how that one turned out. Like I said, this is by no means great reasons, but it's enough so I'm not voting him.
@Shteven I'm thinking a third option. Some mafia are on the wagon, but not all. They want to have townies provide the last few votes so they look scummy. They then can use some of the same arguments against Spacecase on the voter(s).Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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@ Fonz I believe Space case is stupid townie for two admitedly weak reasons. First if he was scum I would have expected there to have been some sort of defense from his scum buddies earlier in the day. There really has been zilch on that (granted my point is highly speculative). Second, this wagon bears an awfully accurate resemblance to the one that got Kab lynched. And we all know how that one turned out.
@Shteven My 3rd option is this. Some mafia are on the current wagon, but not all. They are hanging back for one or more townies to finish off spacecase. The mafia can then use some of the same arguments used against Spacecase to go after the voter(s). That's my 2 idea, anyway.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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ABWOP Ok the site is all screwed up. I wrote the top post out, clicked post, and got an error message (something about not being able to post so soon after my most recent post). When I clicked back my analysis was gone. I rewrote it and posted that. Now I see I've made both posts were registered. I have no clue what's going on, but sorry for the redundancy.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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FOS Phate. I'd like to hear more from him. This also so goes back to something we talked about a *long time ago* . Phate was one of the 3 Justin talked about. I think I'm gonna run down the list on that before I worry about other things.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I believe Spacecase's claim. So sue me.
I really dont know what else to do here. I'm gonna vote phate as it's the only scum like thing I have going here. I got a lot of gut feelings and question marks, but nothing else concrete. Maybe voting him will bring him back, though I'm doubting it. I know SC has been lurking too, but at least he bothers to show up.vote: phateShoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I believe the wagon was run by the mafia. Mafia tend to want to mislynch town and/or non-mafia scum. He claimed town, not something we can disprove like doc or cop (haha on the later one). I am not comfortable with the wagon. It seems the best argument for it, before it stalled, was there are so many votes on him it will happen. Yes I know he acted scum on plenty occasions (and that's a problem). Problem is so did our dearly departed friend Kab. I wonder how much stuff was blown out of proportion in the name of scum hunting or scum doing what they do best.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I thought it was a very real possibility before he claimed. It is consitent my expectation that the mafia attempted to get him mislynched. I guess my beliefs dont depend on the claim, but they are re-enforced by it.Oman wrote: Do you believe him to be town independent of the townie claim?Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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I'm sorry to get presumptious with you being busy. I some how managed to not to realize. I know how it feels to have a billion things going on and this game having like no priority.
Certainly true. He did it before, hell he's done similar stuff to others. I haven't really made up my mind either way about him. I'd liek to hear his response. I happen to like his reason, though let me point out there is not confirm that phate has been investigated. Cipher obviously hasnt and it's only a possibility (ok one of my pet theories) that Justin investigated him and thus wanted to draw attention to Phate (or the other people he talked about, or I'm just plain wrong. I've said this. It's just the best thing I got).Phate wrote:dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'
That was an incredibly scummy post.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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This looks strangely familiar. I am fascinated by how quickly several people jumped on dahil1. Remember I was all for lynching dahil so don't bother claiming we're working together and everyone was like, lets deal with SC even though dahil exihibited what I considered more scummy behavior. So dahil1 is now the flavor of the minute. I dont like seeing that guys, it's almost like you guys were psychic... or working together. Sure exaserbated townies wanting a lynch could do that. Exaserbated mafia looking for a lynch could do it too. Tell me I'm crazy or looking for the boogieman again.
Fonz, yep you're right I could turn up Godfather or Serial Killer. I am neither. I doubt I need to say this, but I am not mafia either. I am 100% vanillia townie. You've spent the last day impeaching my credibility. Did you speak up when I was questioning cipher's/Jess's credibility? I don't believe so. I understand you want a lynch of someone real bad, but you might want to chill out as we could just as easily lynch a townie. And you wouldn't want that, would you?Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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Sorry for just getting the number of times you refuted me wrong, but I still think you are twisting everything because you desperately wanted to lynch spacecase.
I've said my role before, I've done it in my other games, I habitually do it. Sorry if it bugs you now.Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.-
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