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[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

jelous of my dance moves?

[Nero Cain]

I think DW is town. I sorta skimmed and I'm going to reread it but I think the whole "don't claim, roles won't help us figure shit out" is very untrue. I don't really think DGB is scum for it b/c I could see how town that just got burned could think that.

[Nero Cain]

for the record i have setup-related thoughts but they're not for sharing in the early game, will talk more about it later

like this seems like a scum post.

[Nero Cain]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

peta is just all up on DBG's backside here

[Nero Cain]

What about a neighborhood with two traitors, the town kills one, then the other traitor is treated as conftown because no mod would have a neighborhood of two traitors?

tbf, the idea that there could be multiple scum in the hood was very much brought up and I would have been endgamed if you lynched my buddies first, which you failed to do.

[Nero Cain]

titus he was accusing me of attacking him b/c im scum with DW

[Nero Cain]

i literally never make that post about the setup as scum and it'll be apparent why when i talk about it

why is it important to not talk about it now and wait?

[Nero Cain]

@peta, why do you think Nero is chainsawing for his buddy rather than two people who happen to agree?

i know the answer to this one too! It fits his narrative. It's just strongly worded bullshit and if DW is town and gets lynched today then he can just push me tomorrow.

[Nero Cain]

he's just scum thats stringing us along "guys don't kill me, I have important information to give." but he's not worried about getting nighkilled b4 he can out

[Nero Cain]

@peta/Nero, I largely feel Dwlee was scum that didn't know how to react as well. It almost feels like Dwlee is going to rely on a claim to get him through given the strong playerlist.

I'm not sure if I buy this. I tend to think scum would be more likely to go with the flow and try not to make waves. Also, I do think DW has a point.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: peta

[Nero Cain]

@peta, why do you think Nero is chainsawing for his buddy rather than two people who happen to agree?

i know the answer to this one too! It fits his narrative. It's just strongly worded bullshit and if DW is town and gets lynched today then he can just push me tomorrow.

you'd assume i'd have enough credibility to push through an elim on you after hardshoving an elimination on town day 1? doesn't track as a believable thought process

considering that there are tons of scum that get away with bad pushes all the time...

it's like you are pretending you've never played mafia b4

[Nero Cain]

I feel like I’m stuck on Groundhog Day.

you'll just never live that game down

[Nero Cain]

this is my first game actually

LaL!

[Nero Cain]

oh. i guess you haven't read yet. i thought that was a comment on what's happening.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, the way I feel rn is that DGB's proposal is a little anti-town and you could maybe make the argument that she's open wolfing but then I could easily see a town DGB that got burnt and legit thinks it a good idea to lynch without claims and play this like a scumsided mountainous setup. I think DW sees that this can be bad and is opposed to it. I'm surprised that Rathe and Titus also think DGB's proposal is good. I feel like Peta is scum that's just trying to chum up to DGB and her proposal generally benefits his faction.

[Nero Cain]

if you think I'm scum reading DGB then you really aren't reading my posts. Also, you are being pretty manipulative with that cherry pick.

Also, the fact that you are taking the opportunity to argue about DGB instead of what I said about you doesn't feel right.

[Nero Cain]

I'm thinking out loud. I don't know DGB's alignment and I think there's plenty of potential scum motivation in it (her proposal) yes perhaps its something too bold to come from scum (although the majority of the players that reacted to it didn't scum read her for it) but to say that there is absolutely positively no way she posts that as scum seems a bit TMIy. You say I'm hedging but I think thats a super reasonable way of looking @ things from the POV of someone thats uninformed.

i care way less about dgb's proposal (which i've barely commented on) than

trying to sort the alignment of dgb

as well as the people reacting to it

I'll take things mafia say to try to look town for 100, Alex.

I also think the bolded is 100% bullshit. You are claiming you have her sorted so why do you still need to sort her?

arguing like my nefarious plan is to get people to play mechanically suboptimal is disingenuous horseshit.

maybe I'm confused then. Aren't you the one that thinks DGB's plan to not claim and lynch regardless of their claimed role and play this like a mountainous game is a good plan? if not and you think it's "mechanically suboptimal" why was it scummy that DW objected to it?

[Nero Cain]

Sup nerds and NC.

^
see im not a nerd

[Nero Cain]

no i just don't want to talk with u

[Nero Cain]

my point is i'm not getting into an argument about should we/shouldn't we play like this is mountainous

kinda seems like the whole point, no? Like you are effectively saying that DW is scummy b/c he doesn't think DGB's plan is the way to go.

dwlee coming in the way he did is scum because it was an argument designed to be "correct" and score points by arguing against a weird off the wall proposal but is a sort of generic safe argument ("no you guys, playing like it's mountainous is bad") but offers nothing, is not game advancing, is not scumhunting, just an easy, bland conversation subject. when i called him on this he didn't respond like a townie with a sincere belief, he just went into a mirror attack on me. the idea that he is town simply for arguing against a proposal that a majority of players are unlikely to agree to is terrible logic and makes no sense

do you honestly believe that only scum would attack DGB's plan? If not why is he scum as opposed to town that thinks DGB is full of nonsense?

[Nero Cain]

If you want to argue that DW is null b/c scum are clearly capable of arguing a pro-town position then fine but I feel like arguing that he makes that argument as scum and only as scum is far-sighted if not a manipulative agenda.

[Nero Cain]

the other side of the coin is that DW argued a pro-town position b/c he's just town and peta is just scum that's trying to argue that we shouldn't be doling out town cred to try to keep DW lynchable

[Nero Cain]

like it seems totally reasonable to me that DW would call bullshit on a plan that clearly helps the scum team and peta's argument that it's just

LAMIST

falls flat for me.

could someone besides me start posting?

[Nero Cain]

that's textbook iioa and is such an obvious thing to say that it doesn't even require much higher-order thinking as scum to do that

and this is exactly what peta is arguing. You're in this weird spot where you are condemning both DGB and DW.

I don't think DW not liking DGB's plan is this scummy AF thing that you and peta are arguing.

[Nero Cain]

don't really agree though I guess that kinda go with the flow vote on DW is a bit concerning

[Nero Cain]

I think a possible scum sucka could easily play both ends in the middle but I kinda feel like the majority of people that are posting are town and scum are the ones that haven't posted or are the useless one posters.

[Nero Cain]

so like peta + some of

Derek12
Dragon of the West
ssbm_Kyouko
LordEvan
hugsandchocolate


andre and dunn are my invest pile

[Nero Cain]

ARRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOO!

[Nero Cain]

y is rathe evil?

[Nero Cain]

pretty worthless observation since by sheer math there's likely scum in a group that large

so like peta + some of

Derek12
Dragon of the West
ssbm_Kyouko
LordEvan
hugsandchocolate


andre and dunn are my invest pile

its like 5 names as I wasn't really counting Andre and Dunn hence why their names are separate. Though perhaps Dunn should have been on that list. Andre is a lurksack but I expect him to start playing if he's town.

IDK man, I kinda get a bad vibe that you are telling me there's likely to be scum in a group of 5 names. Like I guess its certainly not impossible that in any given name if you pick out a group of 5 names you'll be fairly likely to hit scum. How many of ssbm, dragon and hac are scum?

[Nero Cain]

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

why exactly are you voting DW? you just sorted plopped down a vote on a growing bandwagon.

[Nero Cain]

anything to add than whine about me, dunn?

[Nero Cain]

now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

[Nero Cain]

or nom3 is just scum that's pushing the next easiest wagon to split the peta voters. Peta/DW aren't being voted b/c they are loud. Its b/c Peta is generally scummy for buddying DGB and being

LAMIST

. I also feel like he kinda slipped in 156. DGB's proposal, DW calling it out and then Peta calling him scum for it is most of if not all the game so nom not really wanting to comment on that is pretty suspicious but I feel like Peta put scum in a bad position anyways. And just whitwashing the day so far as "pushing confrontational loudmouths" is so incredibly wrong. He's being a revisionist.

There is one thing I'll give nom and its that Rathe is sort of coasting and the whole "I'm sheeping this game" is somewhat concerning but I'm not quite sure if it's outside of his wheelhouse as town b/c last game a few players called me scum on d1 (though I only remember Andre) and he investigated me so...

not really getting stubborn town from Peta.

[Nero Cain]

also, the whole rathe thing, in general, isn't this new and interesting take. People had been calling him scum so the only think that was slightly original was his take on Kyouko.

[Nero Cain]

like nom prob could have made the argument that any or all of

Save The Dragons
Derek12
ssbm_Kyouko
Andresvmb
Dunnstral
hugsandchocolate

are coasting but it just so happens to be the person that 2 peta voters are also suspicious of is that one he chooses to attack. kinda sus to me.

[Nero Cain]

both T3 and DW are calling Rathe scum but didn't vote him. You did and you want to see if they would vote there. In your mind, this accomplishes what?

[Nero Cain]

we could just lynch you if you didn't feel like playing

[Nero Cain]

I could always be wrong but I feel p strongly so lets say 70/30

[Nero Cain]

we could just lynch you if you didn't feel like playing

That's the spirit!

like, I don't really understand why you'd join a game with the intention to not play unless you landed scum and lurking/coasting helps your faction.

[Nero Cain]

VFP had a similar opening line to summer meet, where they were scum.

true but does he do that with players that were also in that game? It's all WIFOM I guess

[Nero Cain]

I'm not sure what scum DGB gains with that post.

well, most people are town reading DGB for it so a scum DGB could post that for town cred but the question is would scum make the risk of pushing an anti-town stance that no one in their right minds would agree with. eh, prob not. its p risky but I'm not of petas opinion where DGB would never ever in a million years post that as scum b/c I think scum absolutely could but I think occams says its prob just town that is frustrated.

[Nero Cain]

Dweleeis somehow scum for trying to wriggle out of a lim by fake claiming pr.

this is what Titus said. Peta is basically arguing that he's being

LAMIST

but avoiding using the buzzword. He thinks it's such a simple thing for a scum to denouce that he has to be scum. nevermind that town would absolutely do the same thing.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think Rathe is super scummy or anything. My only slight issue is that they are so willing to sheep and absolve themselves of all blame. Also, and I know its a bit rude but if Rathe is set on sheeping there are better people to sheep than DGB.

At any rate, rathe is down my totem pole a bit and I feel like there are better lynches out there.

[Nero Cain]

Day 1 is a town lim more than scum since the information isn't there.

lynching scum is just not super easy and scum will like always claim a pr but I've won like my last 2 scum games when scum got flipped on d1.

[Nero Cain]

no claiming is helpful for the scum team period. I've seen plenty of games where a town pr gets ran up and the only reason they didn't get lynched is b/c they claimed a pr. Sure, if we say "to hell with pr claims" then certainly we'll lynch scum that would otherwise wiggle out of a noose but we'll more than likely hit town prs as well.

[Nero Cain]

I still feel like DW being against DGB's proposal ranges from town-null. Like I certainly understand that DW could be scum that called out an anti-town policy for town cred but I don't understand that he has to be scum b/c of it. Also, Peta is being selective here where he thinks that I and DW are scum for not liking DGB plan but not osuka.

[Nero Cain]

It's not an RVS vote btw

there a reason that you aren't using your words to try to get DGB lynched?

What do you see as a slip in 156? The bit about math?

yea, saying there's likely scum in a group of 5.

my inconsistencies?

she was talking about how you are saying that DGB's plan was stupid while also claiming that DW's 20 is scummy.

[Nero Cain]

It's not an RVS vote btw

there a reason that you aren't using your words to try to get DGB lynched?

Been trying to talk to Anya but she's just trolling me

that's a cop-out. You are welcome to talk here.

[Nero Cain]

I actually think there are only a handful of actual players and the rest are just alts

[Nero Cain]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

[Nero Cain]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

I don't know if you are town. I think you are scummy for hard-buddying DGB and I said so in 60. I do think your push on DW is bad and make sense to like no one in the thread.

[Nero Cain]

the point dgb was making was that recently normal setups have been outright trollish in their design and people have lost town games by making bad assumptions about setup mechanics. "play the game as if it were mountainous is" is obviously an extreme suggestion but at the heart of it favoring dayplay over claims isn't bad.

I also do not like this. Like yes, DGB probably meant "let's just worry more about dayplay" and DGB just communicated that very very poorly but you are giving this a very generous spin and it gives me the willies. Sure DW could be scum that wanted to shoot this down for town cred but I think town are just as likely to call this out.

[Nero Cain]

every time peta claims misrep it just makes me think he's caught scum b/c claiming something is a misrep is doing the same to me.

[Nero Cain]

several people were voting him so i don't see how it makes sense to no one but ok

titus' reason was

rathe was just sheeping DGB

derek and anya were RVS votes.

I don't think anyone is really sheeping you.

[Nero Cain]

i lied about catching up i tried reading everything and it's making my eyes glaze over i'm just going to roll with my gut

VOTE: petapan

how does your gut know what to do if it hasn't read?

[Nero Cain]

I think you’re arguing the wrong thing. Getting reactions and stances is valuable. Scum also love to get involved from the sidelines in heated debates

sure I agree but I don't feel like starting a rathe wagon (or at least trying to) to see if the 2 players that called him scum vote there. I don't think that accomplishes much of anything.

I like how VFP continues to light push me as scum but won't commit there.

[Nero Cain]

btw

@nom

what does DW voting rathe mean?

[Nero Cain]

I'm sick of this argument. No one is going to persuade anyone else. No one seems to doubt themselves. While I am pro everyone crumb, I don't see myself convincing anyone and its detracting from developing reads.

We can still get reads by arguing amongst ourselves.

[Nero Cain]

btw

@nom

what does DW voting rathe mean?

As I see it he's more than happy to push another wagon instead of pursuing the 1v1, either out of genuine interest for pushing rathe or because he's trying to go away from that 1v1, which scum!dw would be happy to do in that position

LMFAO!

You sat there and argued you need to see if they (DW and t3) would vote Rathe after calling Rathe scum and your take away is that he's scum b/c he joined another wagon. What would it mean if DW didn't vote Rthe?

[Nero Cain]

????

[Nero Cain]

i think nom is just scum and his whole "i need to see if DW/t3 vote rathe!" was scum that was trying to look busy and then calling you scum when you voted Rathe like he wanted you to do feels like a pre-planned response. I don't think he ever had good intentions here.

[Nero Cain]

idk man, it's like your wagon is dying and if nom wanted to push your wagon he'd have to stick his neck out and I'm not sure he'd do that

[Nero Cain]

he gave a nice clean fence sitty response and it makes it seem like he never really had a purpose to see if you and t3 voted rathe.

[Nero Cain]

I'm saying it's scum busy work. He made a big hubbub about wanting to see if you'd vote Rathe and when you do vote Rathe its either b/c you were genuine or you were trying to get out of a 1v1 that you were winning anyways and it just falls flat to me. There's no conclusion and I don't think there was any purpose to it other than maybe breaking up the peta wagon.

[Nero Cain]

whether or not noms intention was to get votes off of peta that's what challenging to you and t3 to vote rathe accomplishes and it seems clear as day to me. I don't think nom had any sort of scum hunting reason to see if you would vote rathe.

[Nero Cain]

I've also already given my opinion on rathe so I don't know why you keep asking me and expecting it to change.

[Nero Cain]

it wouldn't change much honestly. Sometimes scum vote each other to distance and it's not like nom stuck to the wagon. Are you implying that nom isn't scum b/c he voted rathe for a hot minute? eh, I guess you could make that argument.

[Nero Cain]

Nom: lets see if DW votes Rathe

*DW votes Rathe*

Nom: DW is trying to avoid the 1v1!

ummmm....

I just don't see what nom was hoping to acomplish here. like at all

[Nero Cain]

man im raking in those page tops

[Nero Cain]

nom what does T3 NOT voting Rathe mean?

[Nero Cain]

@dw

Petapan (4) : Dwlee99 - Nero Cain - Titus - T3

nom was basically trying to manipulate 50% of the peta voters to get off

[Nero Cain]

another worrying fact is people calling the slot scum but not pushing it, I wanna force the issue on this one

now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

Let's see if the people who called him scummy put their money where their mouth is what I want.

[Nero Cain]

i mean you could maybe make the argument that DW is scum and was worried that you would scum read him if he didn't vote rathe but I deff feel like you were trying to manipulate there

[Nero Cain]

I also found it interesting that you originally called him town

Amen to that VOTE: Rathe

see? not scum!
this game's easy

and then called him scum for hoping off the 1v1

[Nero Cain]

So basically DW was scum for you whether he voted rathe or not, is this correct?

[Nero Cain]

then I don't really see what you ever hoped to accomplish by wanting DW and T3 to vote Rathe. You say it was just about getting a wagon on Rathe but I don't really believe that. I think this argument has run its course though.

[Nero Cain]

Creating a wagon on Rathe knowing that some players could join me because they said they scumread the slot earlier

I think my problem is that you made out that it was super important to see whether or not DW and T3 voted Rathe and then there's like no conclusion and it was all meaningless grandstanding.

[Nero Cain]

So peta when does this mod meta that you are sitting on become important?

[Nero Cain]

Is the argument that nomnom is chainsawing for peta?

sorta. Though nom isn't attacking any of petas voters (except maybe DW). It's mostly that he made a big deal over getting t3 and DW to vote Rathe and now he's arguing that DW is scum for abandoning the 1v1 with peta and the whole thing just feels planed and manipulated to me. "here let me dangle this other scum read in front oh you." "oh, you actually took the bait, and you're scummy for it!"

[Nero Cain]

though tbf I did accuse him of trying to break up the peta wagon by getting a Rathe wagon going.

[Nero Cain]

I haven't really been talking about the hood mostly b/c I'm confused about what's going on but I have a theory.

I don't think Peta's mod meta stuff is as earth-shattering as he thinks it is

[Nero Cain]

maybe Titus is scum for playing up this "nero and I never agree!" stuff

[Nero Cain]

does a peta/dgb scumteam sound plausible? i don't feel like i have a great grip on their interactions so far, especially since most have been effectively by proxy

I wouldn't say it's impossible b/c if scum can think of it they can do it. or DGB just went a little bit rouge and peta thinks he has enough clout to cover. But I think Occam's says DGB is town that said a stupid thing and he's white knighting like it's going out of fashion.

[Nero Cain]

Titus thinks I always scum read her and never agree with her. TBF she has been scum in a large # of our games and I think her scumhunting can be...moonlogic. So when Titus tried to play up the "we never agree! card it made me go I think she actully did that in one game where she was scum.

[Nero Cain]

@nom

can we get a reads list from you

[Nero Cain]

@ osuka

the inconsistency Titus was talking about was when you called DGB opener stupid but don't think DW is town for opposing it.

I mean Titus could be playing up the oblivious card here but I also don't think its impossible that she really did forget.

[Nero Cain]

too many annoying yappy dogs in this game

rude mam

[Nero Cain]

oh noes i called him a mam not a man

[Nero Cain]

like I understand why we can't edit in mafia games but not being able to edit typos sucks

[Nero Cain]

doesn't take a lot of effort, doesn't take a lot of brains

i mean, I agree that its something scum could take advantage of and milk for town cred but I don't agree that just b/c scum could do it doesn't mean he has to be.

[Nero Cain]

reads on

Anya
T3
Save The Dragons
Derek12
Dwlee99
Dragon of the West
Rathe
ssbm_Kyouko
Andresvmb
Dunnstral
Titus
hugsandchocolate
osuka
petapan

plox

[Nero Cain]

who are your town reads?

[Nero Cain]

I actually get some slight town vibes from peta's belief that he wouldn't post the mod meta stuff as scum and that he thinks it was better than it actually was.

but I still think that his line about trying to sort DBG when he already had DBG sored was hot garbage.

[Nero Cain]

so your sole scum read is a mechanical 1v1?

[Nero Cain]

why am I having to push so hard to get content out of you?

[Nero Cain]

so your sole scum read is a mechanical 1v1?

Who said that was my only scumread?

the only two ppl you've mentioned as scum have been rathe and ssbm and you are "warming" on rathe. I keep asking for reads and you keep giving excuses.

[Nero Cain]

righy, i forgot about DW. He's scum for not following through with a 1v1 against peta. and T3 is a scumread b/c he didn't vote Rathe?

[Nero Cain]

is t3 bussing ssbm or what are you thinking there?

[Nero Cain]

Do you think being snarky towards me is good town play?

[Nero Cain]

mod-can we get a prod on Noraa?

[Nero Cain]

I know it was a...nevermind

[Nero Cain]

why don't you tell us instead why nom is a bad wagon.

[Nero Cain]

Dragon what do you think of nom?

[Nero Cain]

lol @ expecting Dunn to post

[Nero Cain]

I mean, Dunn is a perfectly reasonable policy/compermise elimination

[Nero Cain]

we get a scum dead if he's scum. If he's scum IDK if any of his buddies would defend him though.

[Nero Cain]

this isn't the field of dreams.

[Nero Cain]

I imagine this is more of a pit where time dies.

[Nero Cain]

For my part I felt like nom not wanting to be really involved in the DW/peta/nero argument was kinda scummy like scum not wanting to be involved which is funny that he was accusing Rathe of the same thing. I mean, certainly, no one has to have any original thought all the time but I was less than impressed with the scum read on someone that several ppl had already called out and I think that's something scum could easily do. Also, I just think the whole "oh Peta/DW are just being voted b/c they are loud" doesn't mesh with reality I think.

I don't like that he made a big deal about wanting t3 and DW to vote Rathe and I feel like it just went nowhere.

It's not like I asked any of those people to vote Rathe either

I feel like this is a lie by omission. Like true, he never outright asked T3 and DW to vote Rathe but he very clearly implied that he wanted them to. And like Rathe was DW's scum read too. Did he honestly think that no one would switch?

I think his "scumhunting" is limited and that always worries me. I felt like him being hardheaded and difficult to get reads from was pretty bad.

and the constrain and snarky attitude just pisses me off.

[Nero Cain]

Also are people really proposing a dunn default lynch? look at the thread, we have 25 pages of people interacting with each other and you think voting for a hard lurk slot is the best idea? Come on we can do better

I don't think that removing a somewhat scummy slot that's going to be useless is the worst d1 play.

[Nero Cain]

one of my fave games I was town in a 3p hood and girl tunneled the fuck out of me b/c I didn't attack my hood mates.

[Nero Cain]

You've played with me enough to know that a lot of things you complain about from my slot is playstyle related, which you should know pretty well by now

I've played with you twice and it was over a year ago. Do you really expect me to have a good memory of those two games from over a year ago?

you've started all of this with the theory that not only peta is scum, but that I am scum deflecting off him, and I'll say it again, that's just bad logic
And I'll say this again too, I think the literal only reason you are trying to really push scum!me is because you're frustrated I got votes off peta, that's all there is to it, it's just very apparent your logic is frustration driven

I don't see it as all that different that Peta accusing me of being scum with DW b/c I didn't think he was necessarily scummy for not liking DGB's plan. You say it makes no sense but to an outsider that doesn't know your or petas alignment, it does make plenty of sense. TBF I've been worried that it was a TvT and Titus' dual scum reads on Peta and DW and your wanting to lynch outside of the 1v1 is just scum play but sure, try to wave my scumread off as being "frustrated.

[Nero Cain]

What do you think of Anya no longer voting SSBM?

@ nom

[Nero Cain]

sure keep discrediting and talking down to your town read.

[Nero Cain]

I don't know what I expect nom. I've presented other reasoning why you are suspicious to me and you're just waiving it all off as me being frustrated that you helped destroy the peta wagon and it just feels underhanded and slimy. I also think that it's possible that you've rationalized that I did start suspecting you over breaking over the Peta wagon and you truly believe that I am voting you just for that. Part of me thinks that if you were town and I was just barking up the wrong tree you'd try to get me to refocus my energy but it feels like you aren't really doing that and just trying to get me to stop scum reading you which isn't the same thing. Think of me like a gun, where do you want me to point it?

now I'm going to go play video games and come back to like 2 news posts.

#gamefeelsdead

[Nero Cain]

i could lurk for the rest of the game and I'd still have the highest post count

[Nero Cain]

I've tried doing that, I asked you to talk with me about specific slots and the like
I think it's unreasonable to say that I haven't done that cuz I tried to talk with you about other stuff, and I've talked about a bunch of slots with you too and a bunch of stuff you asked me
pedit: never do that again

I'm not sure if I feel like you did that. I asked you to give a reads list and you were like "nope" and then I gave you a list of who I wanted you to talk about and you still refused. You finally gave some town reads and a few scumreads but you aren't forthcoming and I don't really like it. Are you normally this tight-lipped?

If I'm right you haven't talked about
Save The Dragons
Derek12
Dragon of the West
Andresvmb
Dunnstral
Titus
VFP
osuka


I mean, some of them are lurkers but if you were to ever flip scum there's probably a buddy or 2 there.

[Nero Cain]

nero do u think petapan is more mafia than nomnom

maybe.

I haven't really decided. I don't like alot of his posting and he's sorta being a lurksack now. Although, and maybe I'm just overthinking things but I'm starting to think that

MAYBE

like it's all just a big-ass misunderstanding. Like a town DGB, that's been getting pwned by setups makes a boneheaded post out of frustration and town DW sees it and calls it out for the stupidity it is. Then town Peta who honestly believes that DW is scummy b/c he understood that DGB was just frustrated and thinks DW is scummy for maybe being basic with his interpretation of the post. Does that make sense to anyone but me? to complicated not enough K.I.S.S?

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Titus

[Nero Cain]

I still don't completely understand the hood stuff but if Anya isn't voting ssbm right now maybe it's a good idea to follow them and not vote ssbm right now?

I'll vote nom later if I need to but I wanted to see where this goes.

[Nero Cain]

I just think she's lurky as scum. She's asking questions but has no follow-up. And I think if you and DW are TvT her dual scum read on you two makes a ton of sense as scum giving herself the flexibility to hop wherever she needed.

[Nero Cain]

why don't you tell us instead why nom is a bad wagon.

pretty sad misrep

when did titus ever say that? she said she doesn't understand it (i don't really either), not that it was bad

not a misrep I was challenging her.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not tightlipped but you're basically asking me the equivalent of a readslist by posting a list of people

I'm not understanding why putting out a reads list is so hard for you.

[Nero Cain]

let's pretend that ssbm and anya have bubonic plague (yes ppl still get it) and not go near them

[Nero Cain]

I agree but mafia is a marathon, not a sprint. No way am I going to let those two into lylo unless we solve b4 then or something.

[Nero Cain]

you're funny peta though I don't necessarily agree with you.

[Nero Cain]

like, DGB is maybe not all that accurate, and it's not totally unbelievable that she's town read scum (dw I do it too) b/c I think that oftentimes scum looks "townier" than actual town since the scum are trying to look town while most town are ???

[Nero Cain]

in fairness DGB could just be scum, I'm not like Peta and thinks it's impossible to post 17 as scum

[Nero Cain]

in fairness DGB could just be scum, I'm not like Peta and thinks it's impossible to post 17 as scum

Because I townread DotW?

not necessarily, no.

[Nero Cain]

not gonna say I'm an expert but I've been lightly meta town reading t3. I mean, after getting lynched d1 he might want to change his play but I'm not sure that calling several ppl town and then not hunting much is the way to go about it.

Ironically STD is also a pretty safe vote. I mean, minimalistic playstyles are pretty easy to scum read. I'll give you that STD hasn't been as active as he was last game and his explanation is likely true regardless of alignment. So not a huge fan of 702.

I don't know why you think that me not posting an entire novel about what I got from my reread must mean that I haven't done so or that I'm faking it or whatever

in fairness, even if you did reread we have no proof that you did, just your word. If you talked about more than 2 players that are fairly easy to scum read and then an empty statement that you town read someone that you were previously scum hunting people might be more willing to believe you. VFP's not trusting your word is plenty reasonable and your shock and awe that someone doesn't believe you is kinda

Sweet another outlandish partner theory on d1 lol

how many games have you played thus far? are you telling me that you've never seen someone claim X is scum with Y b/c F reasoning? It's like how 99.9% of people think and I'm starting to get a real TMI vibe when you are shooting down partner theories.

it's probably more likely that scums are trying to leverage the dw/peta situation (I believe peta is town too) and hide that way,

which points to a bunch of different people

,

two of these people

being T3 and std

if it points to a bunch of different people why are STD and T3 the scummist? Who are the rest?

scums are trying to leverage the dw/peta situation

if peta/dw were a TvT would it make sense for scum to vote outside of peta/DW so the pet/dw infighting would continue?

he wanted dwlee to prove himself n vote me n when he did he said he was mafia

That is absolutely not what I did.

ummmm....

this is like WIFOM territory of would scum blatantly lie about their actions.

Reacting to prove one's self can be mafia indicative.

I agree but you can't dangle a carrot in front of a horse and then blame the horse for eating it and that seems like what nom was trying to do.

If you're claiming he intended to go there all along, that's possible but seems rather inefficient no? Dwelee had enough to vote for independently.

I think this goes back to what I was saying to Peta. I don't really think there was all that much pessure on DW.

[Nero Cain]

continuing my post b/c I'm an idiot that hit enter b4 I was done.

several people were voting him so i don't see how it makes sense to no one but ok

titus' reason was

rathe was just sheeping DGB

derek and anya were RVS votes.

I don't think anyone is really sheeping you.

peta (and Titus to a lesser extent) and DGB were really the only ones hard pushing for a DW lynch. Assuming Derek and anya unvote leaving the DW wagon of DGB, peta, rathe, and maybe Titus. Assuming DW is town could scum have gotten another 5 votes? I think that in theory scum Nom manufacturing a new reason to attempt to get voters on DW isn't the stretch you think it is.

[Nero Cain]

the dragon from the west has certainly done mostly posting about peta. If we want to infer that he's scum that's had a single minded focus on peta then sure maybe.

[Nero Cain]

@nom

do you have any example of you refusing to post reads lists or talking about how you don't like to make them?

[Nero Cain]

Lean scum:
Peta - I didn't like how hard and fast you came out thinking Dwlee must've been scum for disagreeing with DGB's early post. That and the ensuing convo with Nero really seemed like you just going full offensive to deflect as much as possible. And I think your town read of DGB was too strong, too early for what they had posted (this is based on my memory of when you started seeming confident in your DGB read)
Kyouko - I feel like they haven't produced a lot of their own content. Mostly just quoting walls of text and then giving one line. I also don't like the dismissiveness about the pt and when asked questions
Rathe - This is mostly gut. Their early sheeping convos were weird to me

like these have been all the popular wagons (sans nom). I don't think its totally impossible that he's just town that just follows along with the thread and agrees with the popular reasoning though its not impossible that he's just scum that is trying to blend in by not taking too unpopular stances, though his Nom one might be not as popular.

[Nero Cain]

sometimes I wonder why I even post

[Nero Cain]

nom sounds like irritated town.

eh......part of me could maybe see that but part of me just thinks nom is full of shit

[Nero Cain]

i think rathe is talking about me

[Nero Cain]

nero y r u saying so much about nomnom but u r not voting him

b/c im posting and playing and not worried about the days lynch yet.

u go out of ur way to keep commenting about nomnom

im really not

then u keep saying people are probably town but also could be scum

sorry that I don't know ppl alignments.

What do you actully think about the things I'm saying about nom?

[Nero Cain]

What do you actully think about the things I'm saying about nom?

actually this is a pretty dumb q since you already think he's scummy though I do enjoy living in an echo chamer.

[Nero Cain]

I still am not a fan of Peta's posting and he's sitting on a wagon that's more or less dead so at best he's unhelpful town. I just think that if he's town it might help explain Titus' dual scum reads on DW/Peta and nom not wantin to vote there and possibly keep a 1v1 going. Though you could prob make the argument that Peta is scum with Titus and Nom.

I also think Peta is active lurking and I wouldn't be sad if we lynched him instead of Titus or nom.

[Nero Cain]

no read my posts

[Nero Cain]

do you even have scum reads besides me and DW?

[Nero Cain]

yuck

[Nero Cain]

so if kyouko was your scum read why did you never join that wagon? westward dragon?

[Nero Cain]

man, you need to chill out.

[Nero Cain]

Nero I just don't get your Titus stuff.

Call me Wrex 'cause I feel it n my gut.

I think Titus was active lurking and I would have expected her to reply to some posts and didn't. For example, she made a big show of asking why Nom was a wagon and when I told her why I found nom suspicious she didn't reply and it made me feel like she was feigning interest. Ofc she went on v/la right after I accused her of active lurking so that optics might look a lil' strange depending on your POV.

[Nero Cain]

so if kyouko was your scum read why did you never join that wagon? westward dragon?

i said he was "not especially towny", not a hard scumread, fuck off

are all in the "not especially towny" pile that

i would be okay voting

.

you said you'd be ok voting him and then your reply was not a hard scumread.

[Nero Cain]

oh, I get it you are trying to play schematics. The underlining point of my q was y are you not voting two wagons that you said you'd join?

wich is hilarious that you are voting DW for getting the underlining meaning of DGB's 17 but you are just as guilty as DW FMPOV.

[Nero Cain]

y?

[Nero Cain]

Derek12-saves a replace
Andresvmb-lurking and useless
Dunnstral-lurking and useless
nomnomnom-WTF posting and scummy
Titus-lurking and scummy
petapan-bad and scummy
Dragon of the West-a lil' scummy


I'd be ok lynching any of these slots

VOTE: petapan

[Nero Cain]

nah this is fucking weasel shit dude

holy shit no.

I think it was pretty clear what I was asking.

In 818 you said all the wagons were dead.

In 825 I pointed out that you failed to join the wagons of two players that you think are "not especially towny"

but OMG

O

MUH

MITH

I used the s word and didn't use the particular nomenclature you used.

OMG THE HORROR!

It's not a misrep or anything b/c the whole point was that you failed to join the wagons you said you'd be willing to join.

you are just actively trying to twist everything i say

the fuck I am. You cried that all the wagons are dead when you are not helping to wagon build.

[Nero Cain]

there is no way, noooo way that you spend this much time as town going through every single one of my posts, arguing about very little technicalities and inconsequential wording, quality it as "WTF" and that I'm "full of shit", only to settle on peta afterwards, after saying that you're not "worried about the day lynch" (???), I refuse to believe it

there are 6 days to get a lynch and alot of people are barely playing and many to catch up and give content. I don't think its particularly important that we decide the lynch right now. Also, by joining the Peta wagon I was joining the largest wagon. Nothing says I have to vote you just b/c I'm posting about you.

[Nero Cain]

i originally like titus's posts but some recent things have bothered me

i meant why are you voting DW

[Nero Cain]

I feel like there's some scum motivation in trying to make this game stagnant and I think it's likely scum are posting less on purpose. And I think that peta sitting on a dead wagon would certainly help with a game being stagnant and I particularly hated 829.

I felt like his reaction was scummy b/c it's hypocritical to me to argue that the wagons are dead and he didn't know where to vote but failed to join the ssbm wagon and the emerging DOTW wagon. Yes, he finally gave some reasoning but I'm not sure why he reacted so violently at first.

It also seems odd that he had no problem vanity voting Anya but when the ssbm wagon was a think he claims he was hesitant.

Perhaps this is nooby arrogance and he can't handle any criticism at all.

855 is likely a scum post since its sheeping Rathe's reasoning (not that Rathe said he suspects me for it but nom thinks rathe will prob vote me)

[post=nom]nom[/post]

[Nero Cain]

lol

VOTE: nom

[Nero Cain]

Your entirety of your actions towards me have been nitpicking my wording, asking me ridiculous stuff (like trying to find a post in the thousand posts I have made across my games here to find a mention of something completely insignificant)

its scumhunting. I mean, I asked you for a reads list, you said no. You've made it an issue that you don't do reads lists. I mean I guess it's fair to argue that it's on me to prove or disprove whether this is true or not but saying that its ridiculous that I want to see proof of something you say you do as town is lol.

So either you are being ridiculous town, or you're just scum, and the latter is just the simpler theory

ACCTULLY

, Occams says that I'm just ridiculous town b/c there's more town in a mafia game and thus it is the simplest answer. You can't even get that right.

Ridiculous moonlogic

say hello to Titus in your PT

Nero can you pick a different person from your list to vote? Not feeling this one.

remind me of the reads we share.

nom and nero are tvt.

Nah, Nero is scum.

I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER NOMS SQUAKING!

Confused by:
Nero

what confuses you?

Nomnomnom is Town. If anybody tries to execute there, they’re Scum. Just so we’re clear.

Why do you think nom is town without reading?

[Nero Cain]

tbf, I was accusing you of being lurky b4 you went v/la

[Nero Cain]

Based on what?

based on not replying to specific posts that I felt like you'd reply to.

but the point here is that I accused you of lurking b4 you went v/la and now you are trying to claim that I accused you ONLY when you went v/la

Why do you

HAVE

to vote Anya or I? You come back from v/la (i guess?) and you sideline your vote to the two wagons with the most momentum at this point. I think that's a scum move.

And you've already set yourself up for my town flip. "oh Nero was just bias.", she says day 2.

[Nero Cain]

I just think she's lurky as scum.

VLA until Monday

[Nero Cain]

y aren't you townreading me?

[Nero Cain]

DGB if you think anya/ssbm are scum together what do you think of peta saying that's unlikely?

[Nero Cain]

I felt like you would have responded to these

For my part I felt like nom not wanting to be really involved in the DW/peta/nero argument was kinda scummy like scum not wanting to be involved which is funny that he was accusing Rathe of the same thing. I mean, certainly, no one has to have any original thought all the time but I was less than impressed with the scum read on someone that several ppl had already called out and I think that's something scum could easily do. Also, I just think the whole "oh Peta/DW are just being voted b/c they are loud" doesn't mesh with reality I think.

I don't like that he made a big deal about wanting t3 and DW to vote Rathe and I feel like it just went nowhere.

It's not like I asked any of those people to vote Rathe either

I feel like this is a lie by omission. Like true, he never outright asked T3 and DW to vote Rathe but he very clearly implied that he wanted them to. And like Rathe was DW's scum read too. Did he honestly think that no one would switch?

I think his "scumhunting" is limited and that always worries me. I felt like him being hardheaded and difficult to get reads from was pretty bad.

and the constrain and snarky attitude just pisses me off.

Titus thinks I always scum read her and never agree with her. TBF she has been scum in a large # of our games and I think her scumhunting can be...moonlogic. So when Titus tried to play up the "we never agree! card it made me go I think she actully did that in one game where she was scum.

and just in general I felt like your posting was directionless, asking questions and not doing much of anything b4 going v/la.

[Nero Cain]

DGB is the de facto 5th scum

[Nero Cain]

Your reaction to my paranoia.

how convenient that you never called me scum.

[Nero Cain]

How am I being manipulative, DGB?

[Nero Cain]

*shrugz*

I'm not really sure what you want me to say here but I'm town. In a game this lurky I could have just sat there and done the same and lurked but I'm posting and being active. If you read my games I often am told to have some questionable logic so I'm a mixed bag of sorts.

There's at least one scum on my wagon (Titus) so unless you think she's bussing me then I'm town. Nom and Peta are some shade of bad/scummy. There's a risk when you call people scum and that's that they vote you and its not entirely impossible that peta/nom are just sore that I've not liked their posts and think they are scummy.

I wouldn't put it past DGB to tunnel me as scum but I think DGB often tunnels me as town.

dunno how I feel about rathe. the sheeping thing was kinda bad and the vote on me is dumb.

[Nero Cain]

what are your thoughts on Titus and why did you never give your thoughts on nom?

[Nero Cain]

Why does a bad push=scum? That's kinda a fallacy guy.

Why is nom town?

[Nero Cain]

Why does a bad push=scum? That's kinda a fallacy guy.

Why is nom town?

Why do you acknowledge this yet try to force me into a conclusion on your play?

but you've already made a conclusion

[Nero Cain]

I think they are either both town or both scum.

[Nero Cain]

maybe

[Nero Cain]

DGB calling me scum ad nauseam vaguely feels like how she's pushed me before as scum. If the hood is T/T then there's some basic scum motivation to want to push there.

[Nero Cain]

Who would you do besides Dunn?

[Nero Cain]

Why does a bad push=scum? That's kinda a fallacy guy.

Why is nom town?

Why do you acknowledge this yet try to force me into a conclusion on your play?

but you've already made a conclusion

No I haven't. I'm acting on my lean. I haven't called you obvscum or anything like that.

or you are just opportunistic scum not that you'd ever admit that

but just for shits and giggles how am I forcing you into a conclusion and how does that relate to my question of Andre?

[Nero Cain]

What do you think of Rathe?

[Nero Cain]

I don't really want to do rathe. rathe could just be scum but im pretty meh on the slot. If Rathe is town that means besides a rando vote on osuka Andres has been sorta tunneling town.

[Nero Cain]

Is that a yes to both of those or just the lurking one

That's your job to figure out

I can make it easier moving forward

sorta felt like this was a cheeky town response. He's not a terrible d1 elimination b/c he'll just eat up night actions and/or be unreadable for the rest of the game.

[Nero Cain]

You guys realize you're posting this in the game thread and not the scum PT, right?

things scum say

[Nero Cain]

is that something you'd do over DOTW or is DOWT still scummier for you guys?

@ the hood

[Nero Cain]

I just think she's lurky as scum.

VLA until Monday

quit the angleshooting dogshit please

????

im just saying that I was accusing Titus of lurking b4 she went v/la despite Titus and peta claiming that I didn't

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

really? how am i supposed to know that? a lot of the votes were earlygame sheepvotes, how am i to judge substance there

lmfao by paying attention to the game

[Nero Cain]

tbf, I think DGB is the one that's echoing nom + peta

[Nero Cain]

There's at least one scum on my wagon (Titus) so unless you think she's bussing me then I'm town. Nom and Peta are some shade of bad/scummy. There's a risk when you call people scum and that's that they vote you and its not entirely impossible that peta/nom are just sore that I've not liked their posts and think they are scummy.

oh please don't pull the "woe is me" victim act when you're constantly trying to twist people's words against them or make underhanded arguments with regard to lurking

this is not a "woe is me" this is the Mith honest truth. It's only you and nom whining and crying that I'm twisting your words and I haven't. I just felt like you were very active at the beginning of the game and then when you started getting wagon I felt you were less active. And Titus I accused of active lurking BEFORE she went v/la but its not like you give a shit about the actual evidence.

Q: why haven't you moved your vote to anothe wagon?

A:

because I haven't felt as good about the other wagons

, although i would compromise on them if necessary

normal, sane person logic: oh, i see, that makes sense

nero cain logic: oh my god u r scumz keeping the game dead by not starting wagons!

it's impossible for me to think anyone could legitimately believe this, instead it just reads like someone who wants to ring me up on some idiotic gotcha about how not moving my vote makes me scum. at a very basic level i think most people get that not everyone uses their vote the same way, and that's not an indicator of alignment. but nero doesn't care about that, he's not interested in my actual perspective, he just wants an excuse to attack me for not dancing to a set of conditions he's made up on the spot. it's the same shit with everyone he's attacked this game

just for the record, I don't think you ever said the bold. Being shit with ones vote can be scum indicative and is a form of anti-spew. Like you were sitting on a dead wagon and it looks/ed like scum that didn't want to throw thier vote around in fear that people might town read or think that those you voted were less likely to be your buddy. Its pretty normal logic. I think you are the one being maniplutive it this situation especially when you are trying to make yourself look better than you really were.

[Nero Cain]

As a recent example of this: Dunn was traitor in our last game and when he flipped the players that he votes (andre, a50) got tons of town cred. So yes I was fucking worried that you hadn't moved your vote since your 2nd or 3rd post especially when you were saying you'd "compromise" on other wagons but weren't even bothering to move your vote

[Nero Cain]

Great another post accusing me of being a drone having no sentience of my own

I mean, you saw rathe kinda throw some heat on me, and then you ate it all up. I don't think doing my job and posting about you while also finding peta extremely scummy and voting there is the contradiction you think it is and honestly its not even close to the same thing.

[Nero Cain]

your "actual evidence" is that everyone who doesn't shit up the thread 24/7 like a fucking goon is lurking, it's idiotic and no one in their right mind would believe it

no, my actual evidence is that I accuse Titus of lurking in 656 and she doesn't go v/la till 734

[Nero Cain]

ate

The point is that I was accusing you of being lurky b4 you went v/la but when you got back you tried to make it seem like I said you were lurking b/c you were v/la and this wasn't true. peta is so tunneled that he believes you and doesn't care what actually happened in the thread.

lurky titus=scum titus

[Nero Cain]

i am not fucking misrepping anyone

[Nero Cain]

crying misrep doesn't mean it is a misrep. Its an ez defense to make as scum and only you and peta are the ones that are claiming misrep. DGB is just shadowing scum.

[Nero Cain]

thats really not the take away but you do u

[Nero Cain]

no, is claiming that by labeling his posting "WTF" b/c I don't like it and think its scummy that im misrepping him

[Nero Cain]

what am I nitpicking and why is it scummy?

[Nero Cain]

You think it isn't but in your world, dbg, peta and me are scums so that's basically what's going on.

eh.....

I have no regrets. I think you and petas posting was really bad and seems scummy to me. The thing about the misrep is two-fold. One just by saying it's a misrep doesn't mean it is a misrep. two, scum that that doesn't like the arguments against them could just argue they are being misrepped when they aren't. the two are mutually exclusive and not everyone that cries misrep is necessarily scum.

I don't necessarily agree with DGB and Andre that you "sound like irritated town" though I guess it is possible and the scum like DGB and Titus are using your and petas tears to lubricate my mislynch.

[Nero Cain]

Easy wagons often have bus'ing scum, I'll never slam the brakes on a wagon due to speed.

big I'm scum that knows scum is on this wagon vibes

[Nero Cain]

omg I had a different interpretation I must be misrepping

[Nero Cain]

ewww don't call my honey