TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Alisae]

actually no even if you want to talk to me
it can wait

sorry
I'm just going to go take a bath or something to calm down.

[Alisae]

Ya now I just read that and that’s unfair ur treating me fairly you haven’t even told me to vote yet.

This is unfair of me I should just go

[Alisae]

Bella did u get something from Klick about the Titus thinking I’m flailing comment

[Alisae]

I don't wanna be the reason this game goes down in flames.

I don't want to have regrets. I kind I can kind of empathize in that regard.

[Alisae]

tbh I kind of ended up just going to sleep after my last post I woke up and in the shower I had a shower thought of you ythan mith being a team but coming into thread and seeing you like this I feel like I have to empathize with you.

I've been in your position I know it's hard and I don't think it was fair of me to be angry like that. I kind of just lost it when I got told that I wasn't playing mafia.

[Alisae]

tbh yesterday I tried to put my sole away and see your side of things. I felt like I did really hard to do that and to try to connect the pieces together. You kind of just left me with "not my problem let everyone else figure it out" and the idea of losing to Ythan who got away with stealing the mona lisa by not doing anything and just starting a fight with you for page 10 for no reason combined with mith who repeatedly kept finding ways to call this slot town and avoid people from suspecting her (especially d2) while railroading town throughout the game is just ugh.

I have to hear from Norwee constantly about how he suspects Ythan and mith and I can't help but agree with him. These are the reads my team has and if I know I'm right but I lose ANYWAY to this i...i don't know. I feel like you're just never going to hear the end of it from me. Like, I want to be LIKE THAT.
I don't want to lose to a Titus who called my play today flailing and got away with it. Do you think I'm flailing? I feel like that is the most heartless interpretation of my play.

[Alisae]

it's nearly 4 am, i've put off my third dilation of the day 4 hours past its proper due time and i'm sat here in bed just.... wasting away exhausted about this game so yeah suffice it to say it;'s getting to me

Honestly, if you feel the way you do, and I feel the way I do, we probably just don't have anything to talk about?
jjh posting is what the game needs right now. I trust it is going to happen regardless of his alignment. You want to let this day go to deadline, I want jjh to play. if jjh doesn't play I'm just going to vote it and be done with it, but right now this is just how I feel.

sorry it wasn't fair at all for me to post what I posted, I was unhinged and it was completely inconsiderate to you who has been doing nothing but giving me your ear.

[Alisae]

i stg ali if you are town and paranoia yourself into a flip on me and believing i can be scum with ythan this game i'm gonna be really upset

the theory I came up w/ in the shower is you pushing 6s as wolves while protecting top 4s, and have 2 of your top 4s come into you.
This is generally what happens w/ town whom I'm struggling to work with. The first time I played w/ Shea this year I had him as town through most of the game but he had me a wolf, would not at all change his read on me, and I kept flip flopping because at some point it just looked unnatural because his reads were never changing and I felt like throughout that day I was always trying to process new information or figure out what worked and what didn't.

Anyway I debunked that team in my head because idunno why you shoot staeg say it's a cop hunting shot and then shot marashu. You would also have to have 1-shot gun, cop, and the n3 gun which is...ya........

[Alisae]

yeah i don't have a back and forth to give you. it's actually MORE useful to my eyes when you prod otheer people and make your arguments there

it has more chance of convincing me for sure

this game gets played when I am asleep.
I'm just doing what I can to fight for what I believe in.
My Ideal coalition is Mena + Bella + You + jjh (assuming I can identify them as town and they post) and me.

[Alisae]

tbh yesterday I tried to put my sole away and see your side of things. I felt like I did really hard to do that and to try to connect the pieces together. You kind of just left me with "not my problem let everyone else figure it out" and the idea of losing to Ythan who got away with stealing the mona lisa by not doing anything and just starting a fight with you for page 10 for no reason combined with mith who repeatedly kept finding ways to call this slot town and avoid people from suspecting her (especially d2) while railroading town throughout the game is just ugh.

I have to hear from Norwee constantly about how he suspects Ythan and mith and I can't help but agree with him. These are the reads my team has and if I know I'm right but I lose ANYWAY to this i...i don't know. I feel like you're just never going to hear the end of it from me. Like, I want to be LIKE THAT.
I don't want to lose to a Titus who called my play today flailing and got away with it. Do you think I'm flailing? I feel like that is the most heartless interpretation of my play.

Ali...

my team looked at your initial response to my suspicions of you earlier today and said you looked like you were flailing/panicing.

ya idunno idunno what to say other than just i'm solving and fighting for what i believe for and to see that get called flailing I just can't understand...

[Alisae]

cause when you say "what scum team works?" I can think of 2 or 3. And when you say "why not staeg day 1?" I have thoughts on that too

any "why not" I have an answer for so it's not "why not this story" it's "which story is true"

did you share any of this? Is it just you feel like wolves don't have to do anything? Cause I feel like I could run down how a lot of these players would probably just find some way to end up voting Staeg > not if they were to be wolves. I'm really really puzzled about how Staeg's elimination just doesn't go through if he's town and jjh is a wolf.

[Alisae]

cause when you say "what scum team works?" I can think of 2 or 3. And when you say "why not staeg day 1?" I have thoughts on that too

any "why not" I have an answer for so it's not "why not this story" it's "which story is true"

did you share any of this? Is it just you feel like wolves don't have to do anything? Cause I feel like I could run down how a lot of these players would probably just find some way to end up voting Staeg > not if they were to be wolves. I'm really really puzzled about how Staeg's elimination just doesn't go through if he's town and jjh is a wolf.

staeg elim is a blocker for imag and rad elims.

if staeg flips town by vote day 1 i'm killing peoplen who drove that wagon.

So I think Mena would just not give a fuck about this since he doesn't care for playing the alignment in the first place.
Bella I imagine just continues to stand her ground. I don't think she fears you.
mith already discussed why he would want to be off an elimination wagon w/ me prior to those events. It makes sense to put out that perspective while not joining staeg.
Ythan didn't play.
Datisi is the only person who I could see fearing you and this applying too.

[Alisae]

Oh also if I'm a wolf I just don't give a fuck and push it anyway because it's what I want and wolf!Ali always gets what e wants.

[Alisae]

What teams do you see? You only said you have 2 of Datisi/jjh but you never exactly I think discussed teams w/ me?

[Alisae]

OH ANOTHER THING LLD
I probably vote staeg shoot you because I can predict that Ythan investigates you if she's a cop.

[Alisae]

I think me having that read as a wolf is not unreasonable, no?
So not only if I was a wolf would I push through Staeg, if you saying you would punish, I just wouldn't let you

[Alisae]

Norwee says that if mith didn't crumb the n3 gun that it's suspect

[Alisae]

Looking forward to it!!!

[Alisae]

(Hopefully it’s obvious to everyone (except possibly Ali?) that saying she’s playing “Keep Talking and Nobody Has a Chance to Keep Up with All My Bad Takes” was a sarcastic joke.)

- I am slightly dense and biologically I am just susceptible to taking these types of things seriously
- it wasn't, i don't know how it was clear that it was
- do you like baiting me with your "jokes"?

[Alisae]

Hey LLD, I would like to understand what teams it is that you see.

[Alisae]

Hey LLD, I would like to understand what teams it is that you see.

JJH/Datisi/Mena
JJH/Datisi/Bella
JJH/Datisi/You
JJH/Datisi/Mith

How well thought out is this?

[Alisae]

I also have some outside odds at Datisi being town but those worlds almost exclusively look weird. It's why I'm confident on Datisi and JJH.

I am there on you with Datisi because I think targeting Ythan is odd. Like, why is that happening? How did that happen? These are details I'm not really sure about.
If I am hooding Ythan's team, I am hooding them for Titus, but that doesn't seem like that was the intent?

jjh obviously needs to play, I vote there if it doesn't.
I think 1 of {Ythan, jjh} being a wolf is definitely something we can agree on?

[Alisae]

I am asking how well thought out 4174 is because at a glance it seems like you just took jjh/Datisi and just threw every unsorted player, and I wanna know if this is the case or if there is logic behind how all of those teams could be real.

[Alisae]

I am asking how well thought out 4174 is because at a glance it seems like you just took jjh/Datisi and just threw every unsorted player, and I wanna know if this is the case or if there is logic behind how all of those teams could be real.

It's mostly just "I'm at JJH+Datisi+One more" and no argument you have given me for why any of those 4 other people can't be the third slot holds enough water so.

wynaut?

[Alisae]

JJH/Ythan + Datisi + Ali/Mena/Bella/Mith

[Alisae]

I feel like I am trying to look at the game as a whole and ask questions about why these events are happening if certain people are wolves. If you are telling my that my arguments aren't holding up when you're also telling me "idunno sounds like a problem for the future people" ok you tell me what were wolves doing throughout d1 why did day 1 play out like it did why did staeg get shot why did marashu get shot?

You're asked me to think about why Marashu got shot, and I provided you with a solution that justifies why everything happened and that team also just so happens to be a team that shoots marashu.

[Alisae]

I feel like I am trying to look at the game as a whole and ask questions about why these events are happening if certain people are wolves. If you are telling my that my arguments aren't holding up when you're also telling me "idunno sounds like a problem for the future people" ok you tell me what were wolves doing throughout d1 why did day 1 play out like it did why did staeg get shot why did marashu get shot?

You're asked me to think about why Marashu got shot, and I provided you with a solution that justifies why everything happened and that team also just so happens to be a team that shoots marashu.

day 1 was defined by a bunch of townies hitting LHF until they died and scum didn't need to do shit so the staeg wagon unfolding on itelf was either 1) townies deciding it wasn't worth it or 2) scum deciding there was value in not pushing Staeg over the edge and looking town on a back off.

Either way, scum were coasting, Rad imploded on his own damn self... it's a lot.

Imaginality was always dying day 2 so again what do scum need to do but look town and plan for future days.

We have... very little to go off of in prior wagonomics that isn't at least somewhat poisoned by how poorly positioned we are.

Who on this playerlist would feel like they didn't have to do anything? I feel like your approach to this doesn't take into consideration what the players have done, and it doesn't take into consideration what those players might actually do.
Why did wolves shoot Staeg and Marashu? Wouldn't shooting Ythan just be a better, more effective, cop hunting shot?

Can you point out who was coasting during this gamestate?

[Alisae]

LLD If you don't care for my logic, then use me as your sounding board. We're voting together so we should be able to at least try to sync w/ one another and I think this is the way to do it.
I can ask the questions, you can provide the answers.

[Alisae]

idunno I would like to be able to be relied on a little bit

[Alisae]

i'd be happily doing that if i wasn't literally having to run off to do another medical proceedure or self care thing every hour or so while trying to mix free time activities into it

i'm not at 100

can you make an attempt to do so before telling me "ya we're doing jjh"
if you don't make an attempt to do so and just tell me to vote jjh I am going to post yellow and then get paranoid about it being you ythan and mith

[Alisae]

show me the interactions between those slots that indicate that, cause Ythan/Mith I'm just not seeing it

I mean it hardly exists because like Ythan is getting away with being a non-participant. Hard to find those associations when you hardly have to bring up the slot.

The biggest red flag to me is this

Datisi - "i still want to absolutely kill imaginality, but this kind of play from ythan is fucking unacceptable" (No. We lim the obvious scum, and we sort out Ythan tomorrow. I agree her play is unacceptable, and if she's town doing this and continues to do it expect an epic rant from me after the game. But we need to lim scum today.)

This reads like mith trying to derail Ythan and focus the votes onto Imaginality.
Agrees w/ the general sentiment that Ythan's play is unacceptable but we HAVE to lim this other scummy person instead. This is like, distancing 101 to me, I love putting my wolf partners in my fos pool but not ever voting them and voting town instead! How does this not read to you as that.

[Alisae]

i'd be happily doing that if i wasn't literally having to run off to do another medical proceedure or self care thing every hour or so while trying to mix free time activities into it

i'm not at 100

can you make an attempt to do so before telling me "ya we're doing jjh"
if you don't make an attempt to do so and just tell me to vote jjh I am going to post yellow and then get paranoid about it being you ythan and mith

yes and then Mith is going to shoot you in the face tonight for antagonizing him because you didn't onboard with us and tried to swing it the other direction and if you're town that really IS game over.

I've been giving you my ear on EVERYTHING. I don't have to do this.

do you notice we're te ONLY PEOPLE TALKING besides Mith? Why is mith out here arguing with you? It's like the town went fucking dead on purpose, prod dodging because one of two things is true

1) you're scum and trying to sway me
or
2) you're town and ONE OF US IS WRONG and if they can let us come to the wrong conclusion on our own they don't need to do SHIT about it.

PEOPLE ARE ON VLA!!!
JJH IS BEHIND, HASN'T READ
MENA HAS SPURTS OF ACTIVITY AND THIS IS IN LINE WITH THAT
Datisi's presence fell off a cliff, sure
Ythan has been doing what they have been doing since Days 1 and 2.
Bella shows up sometimes.

lmao there's literally nothing happening besides us talking when we get chances to talk. I'm just trying to make use of the time.

You are technically correct, you don't have to do this, but aren't you the person who said that you didn't know? Aren't you the person who said to leave it to the future people? Ok, so if you didn't know, wouldn't you want to be asked the questions to figure it out?

[Alisae]

but Datisi has mild pop ins that offer nothing constructive, Mena is nowhere to be seen, Bella keeps catching up with "mood" and "same" posts

JJH is doing nothign, he's on page 40 wiht... no insights.

Ythan is still ghosting the game and resting on her laurels as a cop who dies tonight and needs to sell herself.

WHERE IS ANYONE

I HAVE NO IDEA >_<

[Alisae]

W/ Datisi I feel like it could be alignment indicative.
With everyone else I don't think it is. I think Bella is waiting to talk to Mena I think? I'll also probably want to talk to them whenever I actually get a chance.
JJH is behind and is probably reading. We're using all of deadline so just let him read it's fine, if he doesn't get any insights we kill him ez

[Alisae]

show me the interactions between those slots that indicate that, cause Ythan/Mith I'm just not seeing it

I mean it hardly exists because like Ythan is getting away with being a non-participant. Hard to find those associations when you hardly have to bring up the slot.

The biggest red flag to me is this

Datisi - "i still want to absolutely kill imaginality, but this kind of play from ythan is fucking unacceptable" (No. We lim the obvious scum, and we sort out Ythan tomorrow. I agree her play is unacceptable, and if she's town doing this and continues to do it expect an epic rant from me after the game. But we need to lim scum today.)

This reads like mith trying to derail Ythan and focus the votes onto Imaginality.
Agrees w/ the general sentiment that Ythan's play is unacceptable but we HAVE to lim this other scummy person instead. This is like, distancing 101 to me, I love putting my wolf partners in my fos pool but not ever voting them and voting town instead! How does this not read to you as that.

it reads town to me. it reads like someone who picked up on Ythan's role almost always being cop.

So you're saying that they were informed.
This doesn't do anything for me because if they're wolves w/ Ythan they would still want to do this.

like fucking hell Ali, I knew Ythan was a cop YESTERDAY.

It's the only thing realistic thing she could be! It was practically like an open secret. Heck, STAEG even knew and STAEG wanted more from Ythan AND FOS'D THEM

[Alisae]

my problem is "why didn't Ythan die?" and my answer was THIS. Today. People lining up for using it as WIFOM, right?

Because I was stupid and shot Ceph instead of holstering, our numbers are fucky. We lost a miselim. So this is the taking advantage of that.

The problem with this is this basically risks losing to the cop if it ever actually becomes a problem.
The more you fuck around the more you're gonna find out, right?

[Alisae]

Ali, go read every time Datisi speaks about Gimli.

ok, I'll ctrl + F Gimli

[Alisae]

so far on a brief skim this seems decently meaningful?

[Alisae]

so far on a brief skim this seems decently meaningful?

meaning you're seeing what I'm seeing?

Ya

[Alisae]

it's probably more convincing than I think anything that's out there on the slot

[Alisae]

I am going to go get the Gimli posts I townread him for D1. I want to show you those and you tell me what you think

[Alisae]

So this was the first sequence

my alisae townread is starting to wear thin as e's posting continues to be soft and 'trying to understand' and 'trying to grasp' and 'letting it rest' and this and that. it's here it's interacting it's making impressions on everyone but is it solving? is it pushing the game anywhere?

Before this post he was townreading me HARD.
I remember voting him for this in the moment because I thought he was trying to plant seeds for future paranoia and discord.

This was his response to this

like that post just spits in my fucking face it's gross

What purpose does that serve other than to just plant paranoia about me?

sorry mate its just how im reading the game. the sheer amount of not moving the game in any direction while posting as much as you are doesn't make me feel good about you. your responses to me were too reactive in a way I don't know if fits much with your towngame either, as I remember town you being extremely charitable to scumreads as town and trying to pick people's thoughts and understand them rather than OMGUSing them.

if I were just strong TRing you like everyone else seems to be doing, wouldn't that be objectively worse from an alignment standpoint? why would I pick you as scum, when there's all these flavours of potential low hanging fruit hanging around?

also why would I try to diminish your influence in the game when you're not pushing anything? I think if I was scum I'd be fine with the way you're playing

So I actually really like this response.
This kind of just reads like they're doing their own thing. They're standing their ground don't really feel threatened at all.

Logic is sound too because as I was reading this I was mostly nodding along w/ at least how it didn't make sense for him to do this if he was a wolf, because I imagine he would probably just want to keep me as townie, no?

I thought this could come from town but there's one more thing I think in combination w/ this I feel like just makes it likely that this guy could be town?

[Alisae]

VOTE: staeg

you know what this is fine

OK, so this player puts staeg at 6.
Sure.

Then look @ what happens

i open the game

i see gimli casing and voting marashu

i cry

the amount of baffling resistance to mara is incredible

Alisae - townie vibes and energy
Bellaphant - townie vibes and energy
Cephrir - scum if dats is town
Datisi - scum if ceph is town
Gimli - potato
imaginality - hard TRing the poem fight me
Lady Lambdadelta - idk
Marashu - idk scum?
Menalque - idk
mith - idk
Rad - towny vibes
Staeg - idk
Ythan - idk

I'm compromising with your wagon but I don't scumread you, I just townread imag

i don't see mara getting any votes atm, all I see is people discrediting me for bringing up scummy af slot

i don't see mara getting any votes atm, all I see is people discrediting me for bringing up scummy af slot

okay, please explain to me your worldview of marashu being scum

he got pushed for not posting, then he wrote nonsense that lld decided to townread him on, then ???

who are his buddies

what were they doing

I'm not townreading the likeability, I'm townreading it on an emotional level but okay, that's re: imag

re: mara

why would I care about associatives on d1?

is he your roleblocker or something

you're townreading a slot cause it got pushed that's brilliant

This is how he eventually goes from Staeg 6 to just vanity voting Mara

staeg would you turn a wagon on marashu with me?

who's actually buying that marashu is a townie this game and thinks the defenses of him are not suspicious at all can stay on your wagons ig, but the people who were beatened out their marashu scumreads could maybe wagon him with me? and let's see if that makes a majority

we can try its just a game

VOTE: marashu

I think this in combination with those interactions I feel like come across as this guy seeming like he's just doing his own thing.

[Alisae]

those gimli posts remind me of the Lavos Core open game where Gimli was scum, though.

People pleasing "I'm sorry but" etc

ok but him adjusting his read on me isn't necessary to do in the first place I think if he's a wolf.
I think Gimli if he was a wolf would just keep me as a TR and not talk about it much since he knows I'm town.
Like, I'm saying I don't think it happens in the first place if he is a wolf.

Idunno, why would he go from really hardly TRing me to "My TR is getting weaker" if he was a wolf?

[Alisae]

those gimli posts remind me of the Lavos Core open game where Gimli was scum, though.

People pleasing "I'm sorry but" etc

ok but him adjusting his read on me isn't necessary to do in the first place I think if he's a wolf.
I think Gimli if he was a wolf would just keep me as a TR and not talk about it much since he knows I'm town.
Like, I'm saying I don't think it happens in the first place if he is a wolf.

Idunno, why would he go from really hardly TRing me to "My TR is getting weaker" if he was a wolf?

sure it is, it lets him say he has read progresson on you when you were a pretty openly townread slot. it's a great place to make meaningless content

This idea of wolves making meaningless content is a new idea to me. Is that something wolves go out of their way to do?

[Alisae]

doing what Ythan did gets people on your ass

I mean ya it's generally unreadable. They don't do much of anything. It's not play I would want to lose to if its mafia.

[Alisae]

you have to have things you can point at and go "hey, look I had these takes and these thoughts" even if you want those thoughts and takes to go nowhere.

Is this what Gimli is like when they play wolf?

[Alisae]

Also, even then, aren't there like, better topic points?
I find it hard to believe that if your intent was "hey, look I had these takes and these thoughts" you would decide to talk about me of all things. Talking about me doesn't do much at all. It doesn't do anything.

I'm confused how doing this as a wolf would be an effective strategy but look who cares about this logic.

Generally speaking, I do see what you are seeing with jjh-Dats. We should probably be looking for the third one

[Alisae]

you have to have things you can point at and go "hey, look I had these takes and these thoughts" even if you want those thoughts and takes to go nowhere.

Is this what Gimli is like when they play wolf?

it was my experience with them in Lavos core

oh ok ya sure
tbh I'm trying to think about on hollow knight and nothing really stood out, I had the right read on him early.

but ya sure ok

[Alisae]

how Gimli went from Staeg to Marashu could be town, but aside from that, I think Dats could reasonably be partnered with Gimli.

What do you think about Datisi/Andante interactions?

[Alisae]

Spoiler: Ok I quoted all of the posts

cause he's the only person trying to help me out here?

hey remember when i said you should start with reading imaginality and also to ask your team what they had on this game and i got ignored? yes very cool

I have been convinced
VOTE: imaginality

uh

what

I have been convinced

by whom and why

Andante, if you somehow

are

town:

If you are town, go read 2792 and 2813. Explain how imaginality as town has this thought process, or get on board. (If you are scum, continue to ignore it, it will make the rest of the game easier, kthxbye)

That seemed good to me

didn't you say mith was scum and that you don't wanna vote out a doc claim

Finally.

Andante almost certainly the lim tomorrow, that hammer seems like a desperate attempt to reclaim

some

semblance of towncred after a disaster of an entrance. Like “oh crap I really gave myself away there what if I do a 180 and hammer to salvage this”.

I still think LLD is worth a look as the third, but we’ve got time to figure that out; Ythan a strong possibility too.

something tells me mith is maf and I shouldn't have went "wow lots of words, sounds right" ughhh why did I hammer that

like, scum or not, that was a freaking doc claim, goes against everything i was thinking

mith feels like he's setting something up for tomorrow with 3097, I don't like it

didn't you say mith was scum and that you don't wanna vote out a doc claim

Andante almost certainly the lim tomorrow, that hammer seems like a desperate attempt to reclaim some semblance of towncred after a disaster of an entrance

like excuse me? not a whole lot I can do when I enter then go "oh yeah finals" then catch what was most likely strep for 2 days, but don't worry, my entrance was disastrous. like what? it's a 3000 post game, haven't had time to catch up, not like yall were helping me by giving the tldr

"andante is the lim tomorrow" like what? I sheeped your case and that automatically makes me scum?

didn't you say mith was scum and that you don't wanna vote out a doc claim

uhh I see my slot is voting mith, I'm not sure I even said it though, but yeah, I def said I didn't want to vote out a doc claim

but like, everyone was voting here, seems like no one had intentions to go elsewhere, skimming mith's case it seems like a good place to vote, so I did, then went "oh yeah, doc claim.. eeek" fun facts

so now all I can do is hope this at least flips scum, and then go from there, but as I said, it feels like mith is setting up for tomorrow, and I'm not a fan

like, mith, you weren't even tunneling gimli before I came in, so tunneling the new person here is the best you can do? cause everyone else here is surely town

but like, everyone was voting here, seems like no one had intentions to go elsewhere, skimming mith's case it seems like a good place to vote, so I did, then went "oh yeah, doc claim.. eeek" fun facts

are you claiming you forgot imag was the doc claim when you read mith's case and hammered???

but like, everyone was voting here, seems like no one had intentions to go elsewhere, skimming mith's case it seems like a good place to vote, so I did, then went "oh yeah, doc claim.. eeek" fun facts

are you claiming you forgot imag was the doc claim when you read mith's case and hammered???

I didn't really connect the dots, but yeah, it's too early for this

but like, everyone was voting here, seems like no one had intentions to go elsewhere, skimming mith's case it seems like a good place to vote, so I did, then went "oh yeah, doc claim.. eeek" fun facts

are you claiming you forgot imag was the doc claim when you read mith's case and hammered???

I didn't really connect the dots, but yeah, it's too early for this

it was like, I saw the e-1, saw mith was all "go read this and tell me how it could be town" and it was a lot of words, and I was like, ok, perfect!

so you forgot that you suspected mith (because why are you listening to the person you suspect) and you also forgot imag is the doc claim (when you entered the game screaming how you don't wanna vote the doc claim)

like you said "why are y'all voting the doc claim" and then it didn't occur to you to check whether you're being asked to vote the doc claim

so you forgot that you suspected mith (because why are you listening to the person you suspect) and you also forgot imag is the doc claim (when you entered the game screaming how you don't wanna vote the doc claim)

like you said "why are y'all voting the doc claim" and then it didn't occur to you to check whether you're being asked to vote the doc claim

where did I even suspect mith? before now. I didn't have a scum read, I'm pretty sure of that. if I did I'd have been tunneling them

also, if that's just 2 people who sr mith, I'm sure there's more,

so we agree mith is maf

, but we're voting out someone who cased mith?

the doc claim thing is ringing more a bell though, like I guess what I'm trying to say is I know there was no way any yall were voting anywhere ofther than imaginality, the mith stuff was so many words I said sure seems like scum

also, if that's just 2 people who sr mith, I'm sure there's more,

so we agree mith is maf

, but we're voting out someone who cased mith?

yeah that was like, people were calling mith scum, and imaginality said he cased mith, then yall were voting imaginality

also, if that's just 2 people who sr mith, I'm sure there's more,

so we agree mith is maf

, but we're voting out someone who cased mith?

yeah that was like, people were calling mith scum, and imaginality said he cased mith, then yall were voting imaginality

that's not me SRing mith lmao

like hello, you can't tell me if you had no reads on the game, you open this up, go "woah" then go "sure imaginality scum"

I feel like that's why it's important to look at who made sure the wagon shifted to Rad rather than say to Gimli.
It's not about why it shifted from me to Rad, it's about why it didn't shift to someone else instead.

Your analysis on this point in 2788 seems to consist of "here's a list of all the players who switched to Rad initially or said they would vote Rad, minus the confirmed town Cephrir and Staeg". There is no analysis whatsoever about the timing of those votes, the potential scum motivation, nothing. No acknowledgement that I switched to Rad

less than two hours after Staeg was put at E-1

, because that doesn't fit the narrative of "Staeg wagon stalled and scum were worried". (And never mind that Menalque and Datisi switched to Rad, then back to imaginality, then back to Rad. This would seem to be relevant to someone feeling this was an important thing to look at, and surely imaginality is aware that they were voting for him again for a bit.)

This isn't what scumhunting looks like. This isn't what town trying to solve the game looks like. It's just the barest surface reading that amounts to "Rad flipped town, let's lim mith for it because there might be momentum there".

As for @mith's "contradiction" about me, yesterday evening I was feeling optimistic about analysing more. Started doing one of those vote count things highlighting conftown. Then realised the gaps between vote counts are too big making it pointless so narrowed my focus to just reread 10 or so pages rather than 100

It wasn't a "contradiction". You just said essentially the same thing you had already said, reasoning and all, only the second time you tried to make it seem like an organic transition from a full reread to focus on one specific aspect (again, amounting to going after the Rad wagon with no analysis of the context) and failed miserably. To reiterate:

2686: "I'm particularly interested in looking back to see who led the consolidation on Rad"
2788: "I wanted to look at who switched wagons when on D1 but digging through the 100 pages is demotivating.

Maybe

I'll focus on the shift from me to Rad"

You simply don't say this if you have already had the thought that you were particularly interested in the consolidation on Rad. You say this if you slip up trying to justify a weirdly timed vote (if anything changed on your read of me between start of D2 and your vote, you sure didn't express that; I suspect you just waited until there were two votes already on me).

------

Will try to do some analysis on other players tomorrow. (I am behind on everything, so I don't think I am going to have time tonight.)

I would very much like to get reads from Ythan, Marashu, and Menalque ASAP (and LLD when able).

like that amount of words?? yo. but then I go with mith on it, and mith is all "ANDANTE DIES TOMORROW!!" like what?

surely you don't actually think that scum is incapable of writing that many words

Sorry not everything I do makes perfect sense, but I'm trying my best to explain where yall are confused in this thought process. Welcome to the mind of andante!

surely you don't actually think that scum is incapable of writing that many words

seemed like a whole lot of effort at the time.
but hey not I instantly regret voting,it's not like I can change it though

so now we just hope this flips scum!

prove me wrong, show me how voting out a doc claim is a good idea

you literally fucking hammered the

yknow what i'll stop posting

[Alisae]

so my first thought process is her referring to the amount of words that mith as reason to vote is heinous.

[Alisae]

idunno I refuse to believe that's real

[Alisae]

i think if jjh flips wolf and mith wants to shoot a wolf, they should probably shoot Datisi.

[Alisae]

i think if jjh flips wolf and mith wants to shoot a wolf, they should probably shoot Datisi.

I concur.

regardless of if you looked at dats/andante d2 interactions, I think we should try to look for the third one

[Alisae]

@lld, I just dont seem to be around when anyone else is around!

I'm around

[Alisae]

Or, ythan is telling the truth. It's probably jjh/dats +one other, and that other has to be not lld and klick says he 100% believes in mena down here.

I wanna talk to you about this!
Are you skeptical of the idea that Mena hates playing wolf and would likely not care all too much?
I really have Mena pegged as someone who would probably just vote Staeg d1 if they were going to shoot them. Based off of what he said himself he doesn't really care to play wolf and looking at the wolf games he posted it shows.
I feel like because of this, Mena to try to get the most value and also ending his misery would probably just vote Staeg if they thought they were a cop.

[Alisae]

P-edit hii, I won't be for long (feeding iz) klick says can you ask shirou thier perspective on the game?

only person who cares about my game is Norwee. The rest haven't really been able to keep up and honestly there isn't much to do.

[Alisae]

What does Klick think is the solution?

[Alisae]

P-edit hii, I won't be for long (feeding iz) klick says can you ask shirou thier perspective on the game?

only person who cares about my game is Norwee. The rest haven't really been able to keep up and honestly there isn't much to do.

The last time Shirou cared about my game was ancient history guy is getting Honkai Star Rail'd.

[Alisae]

Hey LLD, which potential jjh/datisi partners do you think is possible from most likely to least likely

[Alisae]

Like not only was I not a part of the Rad wagon and actively considering a different option by the time the dude self hammered (a thing which happened in a recent game to me where I waa town, so frustrated people keep doing this shit) but also describing my stance as cop=town is ridiculous and a clear misrepresentation of my stance

i hammered rad.
If I didn’t vote u would

[Alisae]

I’m pretty sure u were saying rad was the +ev elimination, no?

[Alisae]

also if i was just gonna hammer rad without thinking about it i'd not be doing this little exercise. I'm not sure imaginality is town or if this is the path i want to go down but THEORETICALLY from an EV standpoint Rad is the right kill so

[Alisae]

2578 made I’m pulsively want to hammer rad cuz u said it was +ev and I thought it through

[Alisae]

Impulsively

[Alisae]

U said u were fascinated by my hammer.

[Alisae]

Is there an M&M conveying overwhelming jealousy that I can post at Mena while I hack up a lung over here?

[Alisae]

Ye it made me worried

How did u not remember it? I feel like that's something you would remember.

[Alisae]

Or do you think I'm the kind of player who purposefully makes a provably untrue statement that can be easily refuted because....why again?

you actually did something similar in election

The reason no one else wants to kill me is because I'm towny

I recently quoted my interactions with meowth which showed a consistent scumread and a vote on them, so you need to drop the claim that I didn't.

I tell you you're wrong when you suspect me because I think there's a decent chance you're town and I usually want to defend myself.

I get why you're doing it if you're town but you do understand you ended the day on UNOwen right?

You get why I view things the way I do.

I ended the day on meowth.

Huh. So you did.

I guess I had Mandela effected myself based on how you had approached Meowth, and how Meowth was literally already dead before you voted him and people were just waiting on me to act.

It doesn't change too much for me because you came on at the very end after he was already dead, once I'd already planted my flag there but, it does change a little.

Gahhh I don't wanna have to re-evaluateeeee that's workkkkkk i just wanna be righttttttttttt

[Alisae]

Okay. And?

What is this Ali, you trying to find any way to talk your way out of having to follow me onto JJH today?

Like you understand that this whole day the vibes I have been getting from you have been "shit I swt myself up with an unshakable townread on LLD that I can't backtrack my way out of and she's cop checked too so now I need to try ans get super paranoid to make ot look like I can slip back to going against her"

It was just something that bugged me that I wanted to ask.
If I wanted to backtrack out of townreading you I would just do it.

[Alisae]

I've never been on paid meds before LLD I don't know what that is like. I generally trust what you say but I saw you do this in election and it happened again here so I wanted to ask. I can't help but noticed it seemed fake and wanted to ask about it
I know it's hard for us to trust each other, but can we not w/ this song and dance? Like, if we suspect each other, I would like to be able to be as honest about it as possible w/o the fearmongering. Like, I agreed to vote w/ you. I have been nothing but cooperative and trying to solve. I have been trying to work w/ you and bounce ideas off of you, I asked you questions aimed at helping you feel not as lost considering you're saying you don't know.

We haven't made efforts to find a 3rd partner yet because you're on pain meds and I'm waiting for you to feel up to that.

I get you're struggling and you feel like you're pressured to make the right decision, but how is this fair to me?
The biggest unsaid question mark I have is "Is LLD going to actually want to solve with me or am I just going to do all of this work, and she's just going to be like lol i don't care for your arguments vote jjh with me?"

[Alisae]

Is this all you have for us?

[Alisae]

i didn't really have a read on him, and then he started trolling me so i townread him for it, and then I found another reason to townread him during the marashu talks, and then I hammered him at deadline

[Alisae]

Why is Ythan picking a fight w/ LLD for 10 pages straight. That's so unnecessary, like, she would probably actively be fuming.
Why are those players shooting Staeg and Marashu?

[Alisae]

ugggggggggggggh im heggin depressed

[Alisae]

lld do u know who the third one is

[Alisae]

i want a name

[Alisae]

right now my money's on Mena. I think Bella looks setup to be on JJH and looks town while doing it, I think you're town Ali and you're already here with me.

Mith being scum with that duo would be quite the twist, I admit. But if JJH flips scum and mith DOESN'T shoot dats, we'll have more concerns then.

So that just leaves me with Mena who admittedly is on vacation so I don't know what Mena plans to do.

Mena hates playing wolf can we agree on that?

[Alisae]

if mena doesn't care about playing wolf and hates it, wouldn't they just vote staeg?

[Alisae]

okay, give me a second.

this may explain things somewhat because my wolf game (I know you never thought it was good but bear with me) fell off a fucking cliff at some point during the next two years because I still hate playing scum and I can't just WIM my way through it any more

I think if we were able to communicate effectively the one time we would have played wolf that game would have been a different story...
So what you're saying is you basically hate playing wolf to the point where you don't care for playing the alignment anymore?

you mean in the hydra?

I mean I detest being scum to the point that despite my best efforts to play it when I roll it so as to (1) not break the game from being too obvious as town and (2) to try and make the game fun for town by making it challenging, I struggle so much to actually get into games as scum because of the need to constantly fake and be thinking about consistency and what other people are thinking and not having good answers for it when I am caught makes me hate it so so so so much that despite my best intentions what I actually produce is fucking trash

look, I found games:

here's some town games from the last 18 months:
viewtopic.php?t=90580&user_select%5B%5D=32813
viewtopic.php?t=90462&user_select%5B%5D=32813
viewtopic.php?t=90301&user_select%5B%5D=32813
viewtopic.php?t=89426&user_select%5B%5D=32813

as you can see, activity is variable depending on how long I was in the game, how fast it was moving, how busy I was IRL, but look at the content of the posts even if you're skimming

now my only 3 scum games (that I could find in topic search) from the last 18 months:
viewtopic.php?t=90069&user_select%5B%5D=32813
viewtopic.php?t=89870&user_select%5B%5D=32813
viewtopic.php?t=88427&user_select%5B%5D=32813

do you see any differences?

[Alisae]

I don't think Mena just wants to die as scum, I think mena wants to succeed and gets more toxic.

I disagree. I believe Mena when he says he doesn't care and is basically a creature level player and throughout the game I think he has been solving

[Alisae]

yeah I wanna hear the answer too, Ali.

I think mith is literally in every single wolf combination I have so that's the player I want to flip the most.

[Alisae]

Ythan in a vacuum sounds like it can't go wrong

[Alisae]

if she town she clears you (which would be really helpful right now).
mith has to shoot jjh, which clears him if he's town
we know to immediately get datisi the next day

sounds way safer than shoot jjh and if he flips town game is over.

[Alisae]

And who do you suggest I shoot, depending on the outcome of the flip?

you have to shoot ythan if jjh is town
you should shoot datisi if jjh is mafia

[Alisae]

if ur mafia you do whatever you want

[Alisae]

sounds way safer than shoot jjh and if he flips town game is over.

sorry i mean to to type elim instead of shoot

[Alisae]

You SEE how they're pushing me today instead of arguing any world or manner in which Ythan is scum.

what is there to even say about Ythan

[Alisae]

if she town she clears you (which would be really helpful right now).
mith has to shoot jjh, which clears him if he's town
we know to immediately get datisi the next day

And who do you suggest I shoot, depending on the outcome of the flip?

you have to shoot ythan if jjh is town
you should shoot datisi if jjh is mafia

Let's say an Ythan lim does happen, and Ythan is scum. Who do I shoot in that case?

lld/datisi

[Alisae]

You SEE how they're pushing me today instead of arguing any world or manner in which Ythan is scum.

what is there to even say about Ythan

There was apparently enough Day 1 to call Ythan town.

she egged you on and fucked off w/o doing much of anything else

[Alisae]

Andante replaced out before they could be forced to claim.

i don't think you explained once to me at all how this is wolf indicative

[Alisae]

if she town she clears you (which would be really helpful right now).
mith has to shoot jjh, which clears him if he's town
we know to immediately get datisi the next day

And who do you suggest I shoot, depending on the outcome of the flip?

you have to shoot ythan if jjh is town
you should shoot datisi if jjh is mafia

Let's say an Ythan lim does happen, and Ythan is scum. Who do I shoot in that case?

lld/datisi

what happened to me not having a scum team I fit into, Ali?

whenever I ask you for a 3rd one I feel like you never want to actually put the effort into finding a third one.
I don't think this is Mena's wolf game and I think Mena would just vote Staeg. I believe him when he says he does not give a fuck about playing wolf and hates it.

right now it feels like u just want to control me over actually solve w/ me

[Alisae]

ya im just going to leave threat if you yell at me

[Alisae]

thread*

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

oh now you want me to say things to you?

[Alisae]

do you want me to quote all of the fearmongering, yelling, and threats that you used to try to get your way?

[Alisae]

What is this Ali, you trying to find any way to talk your way out of having to follow me onto JJH today?

Like you understand that this whole day the vibes I have been getting from you have been "shit I swt myself up with an unshakable townread on LLD that I can't backtrack my way out of and she's cop checked too so now I need to try ans get super paranoid to make ot look like I can slip back to going against her"

something bugged me, I wanted to ask, and I get this?
Just for asking about that?

[Alisae]

you begged me not to shoot you night 1. you begged and begged and begged and begged for people not to do that. You made it somewhat personally based

so i shot someone else

i had you as the one i wanted to shoot, i got talked out of it

but you know what?

i wish i'd shot you, even if you are town, i wish i'd shot you instead of Ceph.

because at least Ceph would leave me emotionally drained and fucking hating everything to do with this game

at least ceph wouldn't literally insult my intelligence and ethics and then think a "sorry mb" is enough to fucking cover it, then turn around and act all fucking high and mighty on me

at least ceph wouldn't be THAT BIG OF A JERK

so quote all you want, pretend you're a good person, pretend you're the one slighted here (it's your MO! it was your MO in the cakez game too, so i legitmately can't tell if you're scum or not)

i just don't care

vote JJH with town and win or vote Ythan with scum and get shot by mith tonight. And if you're town, by so doing throw this game.

It's your call. I'm done arguing with you. I'm only voting JJH today.

im just going to stare at this for like an hour or two

[Alisae]

yes i did infact use the wrong words and become a hypocrite because i'm literally in a fucking brain fog from drugs, ali

i also then caught that i did this and corrected myself to what i actually meant

idunno
reading that just made something break

[Alisae]

i don't care about you being a hypocrite or not at all right now.

[Alisae]

VOTE: mith

[Alisae]

wait so who do you think the team is?

[Alisae]

can we like talk?

[Alisae]

3 days, 9 hours, 26 minutes.

[Alisae]

I’m aware you think he’s scum I think you’re just wrong but no, I don’t have a compelling answer of exactly who the rest of the team is past jjh

do you want me to get my posts and you can read those?
Like I've ran them down and I don't see how any team w/ jjh on it makes sense

[Alisae]

I’m aware you think he’s scum I think you’re just wrong but no, I don’t have a compelling answer of exactly who the rest of the team is past jjh

do you want me to get my posts and you can read those?
Like I've ran them down and I don't see how any team w/ jjh on it makes sense

Okay, who do you think the team is then? I gather Mith for one, I assume ythan as well

ythan + mith + 1 of LLD/Datisi

[Alisae]

the only jjh team that I think works to me is jjh datisi mith

[Alisae]

D1 I have Bella as town for unvoting Staeg and announcing them as a TR
D1 I have you as town because you would probably just vote staeg and you wouldn't be afraid to just hammer into the ground if you wanted to shoot him.
D1 I want to say that Gimli wasn't really agenda driven at all and was kind of just doing their own thing.

These 3 people can't be wolves.

[Alisae]

Like if Gimli is a wolf voting Staeg, why aren't wolves just sending that into the ground. Bella is getting OFF and all of the proactive players that would likely be told to hammer that didn't hammer Staeg. Wolves didn't want to eliminate Staeg. If they didn't want to eliminate Staeg, why are they shooting him? It doesn't make sense, Ythan is first pick and has a power role. Anyone and their mother would think that it's above rand % to shoot them if you think they're the cop because even if they're not you're likely to hit something useful.

Why is Ythan living another night and why is Marashu dead?

[Alisae]

D1 I have Bella as town for unvoting Staeg and announcing them as a TR
D1 I have you as town because you would probably just vote staeg and you wouldn't be afraid to just hammer into the ground if you wanted to shoot him.
D1 I want to say that Gimli wasn't really agenda driven at all and was kind of just doing their own thing.

These 3 people can't be wolves.

Thank you for the cliff notes, I have to say that I don’t find any of these super convincing but I’m assuming there’s more to them beyond the cliff notes versions

Ok, I have to go for work now, like I said I’m gonna try to read later but I may not be actually sitting down to post properly until tomorrow when I have more time

tbh this doesn't even begin to cover it, idunno. I posted so so so much but I don't have the energy right now.
Try to read my attempts to solve w/ LLD, and tell me what you think of my solving w/ LLD.
Then tell me how you think she responded to my solving.
Then also read jjh posting and how she responded to jjh posting and me posting.

Like, if you could read up that would be really helpful.
idunno these cliffs are terrible but if you could have these questions in mind that would be helpful

[Alisae]

idunno this is terrible I feel like my interactions w/ lld today speaks for itself.

[Alisae]

Like they read Staeg as having a gun

why

what did staeg do that made him look like a vig at any point

I can look back but nothing comes to mind, there's no interactions where I think he was like "well, I'll leave this for now I guess" with a person he hard scumread

he kind of interacted with ythan that way?
They would have that read if they think the 1-shot gun gets drafted by picks 2 and 3.
It’s not like that would be a terrible read because in draft the 1-shot gun should always go before the n3 gun

I'm prioritising trying to catch up one recent developments but I'll try to look at this bit this afternoon as well to see if it holds up

I feel like you're basing a v large % of solving on D1 staeg stuff and I'm not sure I get why that's receiving greater weight that whatever has happened on later days?

I think we're probably in one of two worlds:

either it's mith/Bella/jjh

or it's mith/lld/ythan

I feel like I’ve explained why team 1 doesn’t work?

yes, I now think I was probably wrong on both of these lol

Why is staeg shot if wolves could have just voted him off

[Alisae]

@mod, vla, Izzy's been sent to hospital

<3

[Alisae]

why wouldn't scum be more eager to vote jjh here, if jjh scum, for town cred?

wolves are already voting jjh.

--

Secondly, does the fact that jjh is being pushed so hard by lld feel like a red flag? It's easy to see it as a push from someone who knows it's a game winning move. Tin hat maybe.

It didn't feel like throughout the day that LLD would consider anything else.
LLD said while I was talking to her at first that JJH would come in with the gusto if he was town then when he did post LLD just said it was obvscum. I actually liked jjh's posting on LLD.

LLD said wolves were coasting throughout the day phase but I don't think she made a single attempt to point out who these people were or why. If I look back on D1, I can actually see that LLD could have been considered coasting during that D1, mith could have be considered coasting, Ythan was definitely coasting.

[Alisae]

Talking to you was like talking to a brick wall

[Alisae]

you just wanted my vote

[Alisae]

Wolf!LLD always wins

[Alisae]

wow look at all of these things jjh did!!!!!!!! oooooooooo spooky!!!!!!!!!

[Alisae]

Look at these CLAIMS these players have made!!!!!! They're so scummy!!!!!!!

[Alisae]

I spent this entire day phase explaining my solve and you said you didn't care about the arguments and you were never going to be swayed lol

you think i for some reason didn't want staeg eliminated d1 but also wanted to shoot him n1 when ythan and you are just better shots

[Alisae]

Ali can't even argue with me at this point

hmmmmmmmmmyes lets make the game more intolerable and make it so people are more willing to do what you say by getting into a fight w/ you that never ends hmmmmmmmmmmmyes

[Alisae]

You're not here to convince anyone to vote anything.

ya let me talk to the ghosts about how you're mafia w/ mith and ythan

[Alisae]

so why aren't you trying to convince Mena and Bella instead of chaos posturing?

Guess

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Don't waste ink on jjh he is the entire circus and confirmed scum. Talk about him but it is pointless to talk to him.

don't talk to Galileo he thinks the world is round that guy is crazy!

[Alisae]

Don't waste ink on jjh he is the entire circus and confirmed scum. Talk about him but it is pointless to talk to him.

don't talk to Galileo he thinks the world is round that guy is crazy!

I will call you a clown too if that is what you want.

heck

[Alisae]

If there's one thing that was actually touched on there;
Ali, could you talk to me about why you're voting mith here

if the game is lost i wanna vote the guy who i wanted to kill d2 but literally no one talked to me or engaged with me, probably because I sounded like an insane person

[Alisae]

like i give up

[Alisae]

I wrote so many posts, none of it really got engaged with, and people are just going to do what lld says anyway like

[Alisae]

ya well apparently mith is town for ~reasons~ and I'm here like "uuuuuuuuuuuuh, no?" but nobodies cares kekw

[Alisae]

I think mith might be the third scum (after Ythan and LLD), but it might also be Menalque. Why is it mith?

guy orchestrated the entirety of d1 and just railroaded imaginality d2. HE TOLD DATISI THAT OBVSCUM IMAGINALITY HAD TO GO BEFORE YTHAN AND HERE WE ARE
he's probably the only person in this game that orchestrates this. He's probably the only person who wouldn't want to push through Staeg. Like, why did that elimination not go through if they wanted to shoot him. It makes no sense.

It's not Mena man, Mena just votes Staeg because he just doesn't give a fuck!!!!!

[Alisae]

Mena throughout the game has been very "ya I am just going to do as I please" throughout the game he is not mafia.
It seemed like he was uninterested in what anyone else was thinking during the game.

[Alisae]

ythan and mith are always wolves together

[Alisae]

every jjh wolf team I can think of wants to vote out staeg. why are they just sending out gimli but not hammering staeg?
That doesn't make sense.
Staeg was suspecting Ythan so they shot Staeg and said "COP HUNTING KILL"
that makes sense. Except when you consider the fact that shooting 2nd pick over just shooting first pick doesn't make much sense at all.

Why is Datisi/Mena hooding Ythan? This doesn't make much sense.
You could argue that they wanted to confirm ascetic status, but why would wolves do this over just shooting Ythan? I had Datisi as wolf w/ Ythan + mith but now I think it's LLD and honestly it can still be either of those two players.
Ythan and mith are always the wolves here.

I mean I've posted this like about all throughout today but it doesn't get read it doesn't get cared about idunno what to do lol

[Alisae]

I particularly don't care for the start of the argument with Ythan.

Ythan

- Sort of the opposite of LLD; the initial stuff read as town, but feels like she's coasting on that (and draft position) since? To the point that I almost forgot to include her. Wouldn't vote for her today, but if this feeling persists she's going to shoot up the list.

Datisi

- Reads like he's trying to solve the game, vote progression has seemed reasonable.

Datisi - "i still want to absolutely kill imaginality, but this kind of play from ythan is fucking unacceptable" (No. We lim the obvious scum, and we sort out Ythan tomorrow. I agree her play is unacceptable, and if she's town doing this and continues to do it expect an epic rant from me after the game. But we need to lim scum today.)

Alisae - shifting discussion to lurkers, ignoring the D2 imaginality discussion (Is she town deathtunneling on her bad mith take and therefore isn't going to listen to me? Maybe. It's hard to see her as scum with imaginality just on the numbers clashing, but if not for that she's the most blatant deflector for imaginality.)

[Alisae]

Like LLD just being me lol no mith reads like he knew Ythan was cop is like????????????? uh ok?????????????
Staeg was also informed of Ythan being cop/bp and they got shot like?????????????????????

[Alisae]

mith d1 was the guy who had both staeg imaginality and rad all in fos pool but he only voted imaginality and rad
this guy has to be the wolf that orchestrated the gamestate.

[Alisae]

Is there any merit to voting datisi

I would want to say that if we're voting outside the guilty, mith would have better odds

[Alisae]

the way I see it, mith/ythan always have to be wolves with each other because those are the only teams I can think of that wouldn't want to kill Staeg D1 but they'll shoot it at night.

[Alisae]

It's either Ythan/mith + Datisi or Ythan/mith + LLD

[Alisae]

the way I see it, mith/ythan always have to be wolves with each other because those are the only teams I can think of that wouldn't want to kill Staeg D1 but they'll shoot it at night.

Okay but why not vote Ythan then

im stubborn

[Alisae]

game is over wolves force through your elim no one cares about what I have to say i wanna vote the guy who I wanted to kill d2

[Alisae]

its called coping

[Alisae]

i want to kill wolf gun

[Alisae]

they submit night kill on you and me

[Alisae]

Actually they leave u alive and shoot Bella

[Alisae]

Keep 1 of Ythan jjh alive
Shoot me & Bella

Mena ythan jjh lld datisi village loses because lld too oppressive

[Alisae]

I am going to sleep

[Alisae]

Kill mith plz x_x

[Alisae]

Lmao

[Alisae]

The entire game thinks that for some reason I didn’t want to eliminate staeg lmfao

[Alisae]

Idunno what to tell u 2, if I’m a wolf w/ jjh I always get staeg eliminated

[Alisae]

Why does lld not take PGO if she’s scum when she knows town very likely end up checking her? Potentially multiple town?

This is a wolf claim for her
Pgo is just bad and not a consistent role in general

[Alisae]

The 1shot gun is more consistent and reliable than the pgo

[Alisae]

Like it’s a bad role unless you’re scum who knows you’re probably getting checked/tracked and you can get kills off of it

Ya so lld never performs the kill

[Alisae]

Why would she perform the kill when she can send the ascetic to perform kill

[Alisae]

Ali, PB has a message — that i should be taking any argument you make about what you would do if you were scum with a huge pinch of salt bc you’ve almost certainly thought waaaaaay more about it than anybody else would have, including, for instance, the consequences of faking a guilty on a partner in order to reach endgame

these are 2 different scenarios.
Pb is a demon slayer witness, they can attest to how I used my numbers to get the elims I want. If I was a wolf who wanted staeg dead I would use my numbers to get it.

[Alisae]

No one has given me an argument for why I don’t get staeg eliminated

[Alisae]

Okay I still didn’t make dinner so I’m gonna go do that now

@ali… maybe you just can’t without looking questionable on D1 so you don’t force it?

Have I ever once cared about looking questionable or not?

[Alisae]

I do not care for such things mister Mena.
If I’m a wolf w/ jjh, getting stages elim is so good for me I use my numbers to get it regardless of how I look for it

[Alisae]

Like I don’t just fail at eliminating staeg and then shoot him because I failed

[Alisae]

That just never happens

[Alisae]

Like no one is able to provide me with a good reason on why I don’t just go eliminate staeg, they’re not a cop, ok, shoot lld because that’s the person that ythan always investigates

[Alisae]

I h8 lategame as wolf

[Alisae]

ya mith playing with you was super fun

[Alisae]

having a soulread on mith all game was fun

we can ignore the momentary tinfoil until i realized ali had to fit


(also i went thru ali's games and i thought i found a really funny tell that ali tends to say "hmmmmm" a lot more as town than scum, and it was statistically supported, but then i was like, nah thats not worth it, just make mith shoot ali)

jesus christ playing around you was aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I just wanted to rand town what the heck

[Alisae]

ya my late game as wolf is horrendous

[Alisae]

I thought the line of logic I was going for would work in my favor for the teams it was meant to be sold for but sadge.

[Alisae]

Pretty sure at several points I asked mith to shoot Ali just so I wouldn't have to see that yellow M&M again lol

[Alisae]

ya no i fumbled d3 start

[Alisae]

Pretty sure at several points I asked mith to shoot Ali just so I wouldn't have to see that yellow M&M again lol

Don't make me bring Detective Darryl into this

oh god

[Alisae]

LMFAO