Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Oatsmaster]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

[Oatsmaster]

I had a sad post written out but i deleted it. Basically i am not feeling like doing anything and tomorrow, i got the DENTIST and then therapy and then i gotta work and i really got a lotta shit to do so i will be not-at-a-computer for the next 36 hours.

Anywho, I know i hVe contributed basically nothing. I am coming out and saying, its nkt happening for 36 hours so do with that what you will.

Idk gob what did you do day 1?

[Oatsmaster]

VOTE: oatsmaster

Feels like home

[Oatsmaster]

I had a sad post written out but i deleted it. Basically i am not feeling like doing anything and tomorrow, i got the DENTIST and then therapy and then i gotta work and i really got a lotta shit to do so i will be not-at-a-computer for the next 36 hours.

Anywho, I know i hVe contributed basically nothing. I am coming out and saying, its nkt happening for 36 hours so do with that what you will.

Idk gob what did you do day 1?

Saying i contributed "basically nothing" is more of a figure of speech because i wanted to do more day 1. But basically I spent day 1 splitting the game into smaller chunks like i always do. I also try to open people up for others to read them. Because i can't read everyone well but i can interact with everyone and create favorable situations.

Anyways im not gonna lie, i feel like the reason I haven't been as engaged in this game is because of you oats, ninja, darthpunk, etc. No offense of course.

Okay that’s fine and all but why did you just act like it was absurd for me to say that your day 1 was bad?

[Oatsmaster]

decided i felt better about my oats scum read than my gob scum read

and 3350 just felt gross to me

Yeah so gross to actually provide analysis

[Oatsmaster]

Yeah I wanna wait for a couple more people to chime in.
I’m not very happy with hu Taos contributions after the fake claim, feels a lot like she’s going “oh I’m not getting yeeted today nice it’s chill time”

[Oatsmaster]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

Eh I find that pretty nai because it’s a neutral way of observing the game. How we play has nothing to do with our alignment. At least with what he described.

[Oatsmaster]

You may not like the reason, but it was a good reason

[Oatsmaster]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

Eh I find that pretty nai because it’s a neutral way of observing the game. How we play has nothing to do with our alignment. At least with what he described.

Why can't he just join in with Luca and yell at me and mislim me if he is mafia, Like he definitely could have done that and chose to re-evaluate.

This is a good point

[Oatsmaster]

DarthPunk I haven't like their posts as I explained before. I do like their Hu Tao vote today though.

Wait a second, so Hu Tao basically outted but didn't have a red check?

Why would they do that?

I don’t know gob, why don’t you tell me your best guess

It just doesn't make sense why a cop would out if they dont have a redcheck. There is no reason to out otherwise. The way Hu Tao played day 1 though does make more sense though.

What about if Hu Tao was not a cop?

If hu Tao is town fakeclaiming, then they would claim a redcheck on someone they find scummy, usually. Its possible Hu Tao is running cover though.
If Hu Tao is mafia fakeclaiming, then it also doesnt really make sense since it puts a target on her back unnecessarily.


It's actually not good to talk about this anymore though. And like i said before it doesnt really matter either way at this point.

Why did you like dp's vote in the earlier post but then say that it doesnt make sense for hu tao to be mafia doing what she did in the later post?

[Oatsmaster]

Can anyone explain to me why ht trying to out a counterclaim is something a townie would do?

That’s the second super scummy thing she has done this game , it’s crazy to me how she is just written off as town.

In what world was I trying to out a counterclaim. Why do you always try to twist whatever I'm doing?

I really wanna poke back at this. Is it so unreasonable to view your actions as trying to out a counter claim?
You did seem to clarify that there are often 3 town prs and 2 of them can be investigative so I assume that this is no longer something you think DP is scum for?

[Oatsmaster]

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
DarthPunk, Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Luca Blight

I'd say these are my overall tiers. I could move gob and naerys down if they don't do anything. DP I'm unsure how to read. Idk if scum would just pretty much try to Elim me over every little thing, I think could just be tunneled but unsure.

What am I supposed to gather from gob and naerys when they basically said nothing from my claim

nothing ofc.

but the question is what are you supposed to gather from your (fake)claim?
So far you have gathered nothing afaik?

Nah. I think I got clarified on a few reads like vivax, oats, grack and Luca.

Imo it made Luca way worse for me. But I know you all scumread him heavily yesterday.

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

If not DP, who are the other two you'd want to lim?

Gob, Oats maybe Luca. I definitely liked Luca more in the catchup than dp for sure though.

Can you explain your read progression from Luca firm mafia to voting to yeet Luca's target?

[Oatsmaster]

Top town
Dannflor, SuperfluousNinja, outoforder

Townish
Vivax, Grackaroni

Null
DarthPunk, Gob, Naerys

Leaning
Oatsmaster

Scum
Luca Blight

I'd say these are my overall tiers. I could move gob and naerys down if they don't do anything. DP I'm unsure how to read. Idk if scum would just pretty much try to Elim me over every little thing, I think could just be tunneled but unsure.

What am I supposed to gather from gob and naerys when they basically said nothing from my claim

nothing ofc.

but the question is what are you supposed to gather from your (fake)claim?
So far you have gathered nothing afaik?

Nah. I think I got clarified on a few reads like vivax, oats, grack and Luca.

Imo it made Luca way worse for me. But I know you all scumread him heavily yesterday.

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

If not DP, who are the other two you'd want to lim?

Gob, Oats maybe Luca. I definitely liked Luca more in the catchup than dp for sure though.

Can you explain your read progression from Luca firm mafia to voting to yeet Luca's target?

Luca's catchup and back and forth with dp was better than dp. Which is why I voted dp instead earlier

Why was it better? What made luca more townie than dp? I need specifics

[Oatsmaster]

He also explained his reaction which I initially didn't like which I thought was okay

How exactly did his explanation make his initial posting "okay"

[Oatsmaster]

Oats why have you not been interested in my alignment during the whole game?

Town

[Oatsmaster]

Also I can read

[Oatsmaster]

I think my vote is going to be glued on oats for the rest of this day.

Anyone who happens to townread oats - just look through his iso and see him ask question after question, and make remark after remark without actually doing any proper analysis or doing anything of note at all. All arguments against him he dissects into fragments and asks for explanation after explanation, with the attitude of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It's what I used to do in past scum games - break every argument down into pieces and argue on a purely logical basis, which will never end up with a satisfactory conclusion, because of course oats is never going to admit to being scum, and will continue arguing and redirecting until either you lose interest, or people lazily start to write it off at tvt.

Hey look, Luca is describing his play this game, that’s crazy

[Oatsmaster]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

Yes, Dann is town, and I'm starting to think Darth might be as well based on his recent play.

So Luca flips back onto dann is town without referencing his previous “fears” about dann as soon as dann stops pushing Luca. It seems to me that Luca realizes that he can easily get off of darth here, I’m really baffled at how he’s so confident in dp being mafia before he’s willing to completely tank the game by saying yeet dp and if dp is town yeet Luca if Luca is town but now he’s like nah I’m good based on “recent” posting

[Oatsmaster]

When exactly did i become your town read OAts, since at the start of the game you thought i am mafia.

Probably like when you actually started playing the game?

[Oatsmaster]

gun to head i think luca is town

Do you think the same things that myself and ooo have noticed are untrue? not alignment indicative?

the whole luca contradicted himself by saying ninja's posts reflects his thoughts on the game almost entirely thing does nothing for me

the most compelling points to me were about luca seeming passive and being content with the gamestate and overly reasonably

i'm not really seeing the latter anymore

as i said the former does nothing for me

How is Luca not passive? He still basically just comes out to talk some shit with me and dp and leaves. He posted some quick iso “reviews” at the end of d1 but didn’t follow up on any of them

For the amount of posts you have, I'd argue you are the most passive player in the game. All you do is ask pointless questions and never do any analysis based on the answers you receive. You don't actually offer any relevant thoughts on the game - you just flit in and out, making yourself look active and curious to anyone just casually following along.

And how did I not follow up on my iso's? I voted Dunn based on my iso'ing of him for a start, and I townread Grack based on it too.

Agreed with the first part. I believe Oats is the one who called my catchup just a bunch of +1 but a lot of his posts are snark replies and asking questions or statements that I don't agree with. Just like when he tried to shade me for no reason and when called out on it, he said it was for a good reason. Yet no one agreed with it.

Your catchup literally was a bunch of +1s, I’m not really sure why you don’t think it was?

[Oatsmaster]

When exactly did i become your town read OAts, since at the start of the game you thought i am mafia.

Probably like when you actually started playing the game?

Now this sounds weird because by the post 750 in the game or so, you still have a scumread on me and i definitely have started playing 500 posts ago.

You didn’t seem to have a problem with me about my post about whether you were gonna play or not at post 750.

Ergo, you also thought that your posting wasn’t up to normal rayn standards so I’m not really sure why this is something surprising

[Oatsmaster]

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

I'm mostly trying to establish how people play and what to expect of them.
I am in no hurry, we have more than 5 irl day left.
I don't give a shit if you think i am interested or not.

[Oatsmaster]

Posting != playing the game

[Oatsmaster]

I want to use the full time so I’m not interested in a hammer.

Oats why am I town to you the whole game?

I think if you were mafia, you’d play this game differently, just being overtly reasonable seems to be good enough and it doesn’t make sense for you to get into a shitfight with a townie who doesn’t do anything.

Like you are trying to get people to understand what you are saying, you are trying to push the game forward and get actual useful content from people

[Oatsmaster]

As for my view change on Oats, my read progression there is very, very well documented. I pressed him on a valid point and he just blew me off. It's not crazy for me to jump over to the scum side of the fence in response to that.

I answered you like 10 times about it

[Oatsmaster]

As for my view change on Oats, my read progression there is very, very well documented. I pressed him on a valid point and he just blew me off. It's not crazy for me to jump over to the scum side of the fence in response to that.

I answered you like 10 times about it

Oh you SAID that DP was frustrated with Luca over a "non-game-related" thing, but you never actually showed me what that was, never showed any evidence in regards to it. Saying it happened is meaningless if you can't provide any evidence of it. Everything everyone has said in this game is right there for you to quote and reference, so you have no excuse for not providing the evidence.

You want to say something and not back it up with evidence, then I throw it in the circular file. That's how it works.

I literally quoted 3 posts from DP

[Oatsmaster]

Bit much from someone who doesn’t even iso their own scum reads

[Oatsmaster]

As for my view change on Oats, my read progression there is very, very well documented. I pressed him on a valid point and he just blew me off. It's not crazy for me to jump over to the scum side of the fence in response to that.

I answered you like 10 times about it

Oh you SAID that DP was frustrated with Luca over a "non-game-related" thing, but you never actually showed me what that was, never showed any evidence in regards to it. Saying it happened is meaningless if you can't provide any evidence of it. Everything everyone has said in this game is right there for you to quote and reference, so you have no excuse for not providing the evidence.

You want to say something and not back it up with evidence, then I throw it in the circular file. That's how it works.

With this kind of mindset, what are your thoughts on Hu Tao?

[Oatsmaster]

I think the better question is what are your thoughts on me? Without the snark for once please

Scummy. Not sure what you are referring to re snark

[Oatsmaster]

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

I will say that for me the game has become unenjoyable (although I feel better now I've accepted my inevitable lim) due to the atmosphere created in the thread from players such as you and Oats. I realise now it's probably part of your plan as scum to create such an environment, where people are afraid to even vote you for what your reaction might be. The fact you gang up as well, it's pretty shitty to play against.

I wouldn't say that anything you've particularly said has crossed the line, so I will take back my 'toxic' comment, as maybe that was a bit harsh.

You are giving as good as you are getting tbh.

I found that comment to not only be off the mark but also highly manipulative in the way it was used with ninja, enticing her to vote your way based on a narrative of toxicity where there is none. Not based on alignment. But for personal reasons.

Really distasteful overall regardless of your alignment.

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

I will say that for me the game has become unenjoyable (although I feel better now I've accepted my inevitable lim) due to the atmosphere created in the thread from players such as you and Oats. I realise now it's probably part of your plan as scum to create such an environment, where people are afraid to even vote you for what your reaction might be. The fact you gang up as well, it's pretty shitty to play against.

I wouldn't say that anything you've particularly said has crossed the line, so I will take back my 'toxic' comment, as maybe that was a bit harsh.

You are giving as good as you are getting tbh.

I found that comment to not only be off the mark but also highly manipulative in the way it was used with ninja, enticing her to vote your way based on a narrative of toxicity where there is none. Not based on alignment. But for personal reasons.

Really distasteful overall regardless of your alignment.

You and Oats have shouted me down for most of the game, including at times when I wasn't even talking to you (like when I was Iso'ing people). I think I'm entitled to bite back a little.

Absolutely you are, that is the game. But I have outlined where you crossed the line with that toxic comment and I think you agree.

I wish you hadn’t set ninja off but I think you did it on purpose so I will blame that on you

The other stuff is part of the game and having strong players with opposed views will always result in tension I don’t have harsh feelings towards you for also making the game suck for me. As long as we both acknowledged we are active participants (I even tried to disengage several times to give you space and get called mafia for it )

You said Luca is frustrated with Luca over "non-game related" stuff.

The first is frustration regarding influencing how I am voting in the game. Thus it is game-related.

The second is, once again, frustration about the fact that my game vote has been manipulated. That's game-related.

The third, same thing.

You can't argue that Darth's frustration is entirely over the fact that Luca appealed to my sensibilities, that Darth would have been equally as frustrated about it if we weren't all playing a game and he didn't have anything to lose in this game.

More importantly, you have this really, really avoidant way of talking about the issue. You treat facts and evidence like they are hot potatoes, like you can't wait to get them off your hands and not have to deal with them anymore. I'm not afraid at all to dive deep into the weeds and discuss stuff like this, but you get so incredibly impatient and defensive when I try to dig into stuff like this. You want to shut down conversations rather than seeing them through to completion. And that's very scummy in my book.

He literally says “not about their alignment” in the first post.
What the fuck are you talking about when you say it’s the same thing as Luca getting upset at his heavy heavy scum read

[Oatsmaster]

UNVOTE:

Bit much from someone who doesn’t even iso their own scum reads

And look at how fucking disingenuous this is. I specifically cited Naerys and explained you why I don't think it is worth diving into Naerys in particular. And you use this language suggesting that I don't iso ANY of my scum reads, ever, at all. Do you not see how manipulative, unfair, bad-faith that is?

You clearly didn’t iso me either or you wouldn’t have asked that previous question. Not really sure how it’s disingenuous

[Oatsmaster]

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

I will say that for me the game has become unenjoyable (although I feel better now I've accepted my inevitable lim) due to the atmosphere created in the thread from players such as you and Oats. I realise now it's probably part of your plan as scum to create such an environment, where people are afraid to even vote you for what your reaction might be. The fact you gang up as well, it's pretty shitty to play against.

I wouldn't say that anything you've particularly said has crossed the line, so I will take back my 'toxic' comment, as maybe that was a bit harsh.

You are giving as good as you are getting tbh.

I found that comment to not only be off the mark but also highly manipulative in the way it was used with ninja, enticing her to vote your way based on a narrative of toxicity where there is none. Not based on alignment. But for personal reasons.

Really distasteful overall regardless of your alignment.

The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.

This is super manipulative based on ninjas proclivities towards behaviour standards.

I don’t Think I have been toxic at all. Can you point out how this has been the case.

Because that is a serious thing to say to someone that is not about their alignment.

I will say that for me the game has become unenjoyable (although I feel better now I've accepted my inevitable lim) due to the atmosphere created in the thread from players such as you and Oats. I realise now it's probably part of your plan as scum to create such an environment, where people are afraid to even vote you for what your reaction might be. The fact you gang up as well, it's pretty shitty to play against.

I wouldn't say that anything you've particularly said has crossed the line, so I will take back my 'toxic' comment, as maybe that was a bit harsh.

You are giving as good as you are getting tbh.

I found that comment to not only be off the mark but also highly manipulative in the way it was used with ninja, enticing her to vote your way based on a narrative of toxicity where there is none. Not based on alignment. But for personal reasons.

Really distasteful overall regardless of your alignment.

You and Oats have shouted me down for most of the game, including at times when I wasn't even talking to you (like when I was Iso'ing people). I think I'm entitled to bite back a little.

Absolutely you are, that is the game. But I have outlined where you crossed the line with that toxic comment and I think you agree.

I wish you hadn’t set ninja off but I think you did it on purpose so I will blame that on you

The other stuff is part of the game and having strong players with opposed views will always result in tension I don’t have harsh feelings towards you for also making the game suck for me. As long as we both acknowledged we are active participants (I even tried to disengage several times to give you space and get called mafia for it )

You said Luca is frustrated with Luca over "non-game related" stuff.

The first is frustration regarding influencing how I am voting in the game. Thus it is game-related.

The second is, once again, frustration about the fact that my game vote has been manipulated. That's game-related.

The third, same thing.

You can't argue that Darth's frustration is entirely over the fact that Luca appealed to my sensibilities, that Darth would have been equally as frustrated about it if we weren't all playing a game and he didn't have anything to lose in this game.

More importantly, you have this really, really avoidant way of talking about the issue. You treat facts and evidence like they are hot potatoes, like you can't wait to get them off your hands and not have to deal with them anymore. I'm not afraid at all to dive deep into the weeds and discuss stuff like this, but you get so incredibly impatient and defensive when I try to dig into stuff like this. You want to shut down conversations rather than seeing them through to completion. And that's very scummy in my book.

Not based on alignment. But for personal reasons.

Really distasteful overall regardless of your alignment.

Again how the fuck is this game related?

[Oatsmaster]

There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between your understanding of exactly what I mean when I say that Luca is scummy because he seems to be frustrated with his scum read and that darth isn’t scummy because he is frustrated with the way that Luca is acting which has nothing to do with the fact that he scumreads Luca.

If you scumread someone, you don’t have the same expectations of them than someone you townread, therefore it doesn’t make sense for you to have the same sort of conversations with them as you do townreads, mostly having to do with trying to convince people that someone else is mafia.

[Oatsmaster]

You know what, you're trying to trap me. I shouldn't fall into this.

To explain to the peanut gallery what this is about, Oats originally said he's going to scum read Luca because he can't understand why a player would get frustrated with another player for suspecting him of guilt unless he was indeed guilty. I pointed out that Darth seems to have done that back to Luca, and they probably aren't both guilty. Frankly I'm positive I could find all sorts of examples all over this website of people being suspected of guilt and getting frustrated for it,

even though they weren't guilty.

But Oats just will not let this angle go. He just....will....NOT....let it go. He is so adamant about defending this particular angle to scumread someone that he has debated about it for pages and pages.

Because the kicker is, Luca and Darth went back and forth for, like, a REEEEALLLY long time. And you can find all sorts of frustration from both of them, all over the fucking place. It's just that oats cherry picked this one particular part of the conversation and is trying to insist that this is the source of Luca's frustration, of all of it. It happened much later in the conversation, and there was plenty of frustration happening prior to that, but Oats is cherry picking this one thing and insisting that all of Luca's frustration stems from that one thing alone.

He is cherry-picking and discussing in bad faith. I don't plan on responding to anything else he says in this game, honestly. All yall are free to ask me what you want, but I am done engaging in these manipulative conversations with oats.

Oh so now you don’t want to engage when I want to engage…

[Oatsmaster]

You know what, you're trying to trap me. I shouldn't fall into this.

To explain to the peanut gallery what this is about, Oats originally said he's going to scum read Luca because he can't understand why a player would get frustrated with another player for suspecting him of guilt unless he was indeed guilty. I pointed out that Darth seems to have done that back to Luca, and they probably aren't both guilty. Frankly I'm positive I could find all sorts of examples all over this website of people being suspected of guilt and getting frustrated for it,

even though they weren't guilty.

But Oats just will not let this angle go. He just....will....NOT....let it go. He is so adamant about defending this particular angle to scumread someone that he has debated about it for pages and pages.

Because the kicker is, Luca and Darth went back and forth for, like, a REEEEALLLY long time. And you can find all sorts of frustration from both of them, all over the fucking place. It's just that oats cherry picked this one particular part of the conversation and is trying to insist that this is the source of Luca's frustration, of all of it. It happened much later in the conversation, and there was plenty of frustration happening prior to that, but Oats is cherry picking this one thing and insisting that all of Luca's frustration stems from that one thing alone.

He is cherry-picking and discussing in bad faith. I don't plan on responding to anything else he says in this game, honestly. All yall are free to ask me what you want, but I am done engaging in these manipulative conversations with oats.

Also, can you show some evidence for any of this happening? As opposed to something you just made up out of thin air?

[Oatsmaster]

I also find it funny that you seem to think it’s the only reason I scumread Luca when that’s patently just not true. Sorry to burst your bubble

[Oatsmaster]

I think the better question is what are your thoughts on me? Without the snark for once please

Scummy. Not sure what you are referring to re snark

Okay why am I scummy?

I don’t think that you are being very clear with where your reads are at and I think that’s very intentional to avoid getting pressure when you go to vote/push someone.

I also don’t see the follow up I would expect from someone trying to figure out the game, instead it just seems like pop in, scatter some posts that are relevant and then move on.

[Oatsmaster]

At any rate, this is fascinating to watch. Darth puts some heat on a townie, and immediately you see a ramp up of pressure from Vivax and Oats. Really makes you think.

Slip?

[Oatsmaster]

Or were you referring to yourself in 3rd person.

[Oatsmaster]

I've been pretty clear where my reads are. I think I've been giving reads pretty consistently when asked and when not asked. I literally just gave a few reads the last few pages. That's why I think you're lying about that.

2nd I guess I understand where you can see that. But that's just how I play I catch up and sometimes I'm not around. But I don't think it's as bad as you're painting it.

By very clear I mean reasons. You don’t elaborate on why you think someone is xyz, you just say it.

I’m 90% sure that I asked you specifically about the Luca -> dp transition and what made you make that change and you never responded

[Oatsmaster]

I havent read and do not plan on reading anything recent. Vote me if you must.

Gob how do you find mafia as town?

vca usually

So what are your thoughts on the game based on the wagons between you and I both at e-2 and then you and oats at e-2

Im moreso into solving like day 1. Bia pools.

Anyway right now to be frank; i think we need to lim some of these TL players. No offense tk you guys, but all i see is anti-town play and honestly unfun ways of communicating.
Oatsmaster i think is town, pretty strongly too. The way things have went and how against everyone he has been, at every corner, doesnt seem like mafia to me. The TL players can correct me if that is his meta. But i feel like his tone throughout the entire game has been inconsistent.

But im okay with voting him because he has been a nusanxe alongside Luca, Ninja, and some other people im forgetting.

Again no offense to any of ya’ll. We cant all get along.

I’m the only TL player in the list you mentioned lol

[Oatsmaster]

I guess I just took issue with the way you said it. The whole "I bet she comes in with this overly complex thing to solve a basic problem" suggests that I have no idea how to approach simple problems, that I just overcomplicate everything.

That’s not what he said though?

[Oatsmaster]

I've been pretty clear where my reads are. I think I've been giving reads pretty consistently when asked and when not asked. I literally just gave a few reads the last few pages. That's why I think you're lying about that.

2nd I guess I understand where you can see that. But that's just how I play I catch up and sometimes I'm not around. But I don't think it's as bad as you're painting it.

By very clear I mean reasons. You don’t elaborate on why you think someone is xyz, you just say it.

I’m 90% sure that I asked you specifically about the Luca -> dp transition and what made you make that change and you never responded

In terms of Luca I felt his tone was good. He seemed genuinely frustrated by the situation. I also agreed with his reads originally that you and dp were scum

When you say originally what do you mean?

[Oatsmaster]

I don’t really understand why ninja is scumreading me for holding onto a view that she doesn’t agree with but is in turn holding onto a view that nobody else agrees with and that’s somehow fine? I’m referring to not realizing that naeyrs did that whole thing about the night kills.

[Oatsmaster]

When I say originally I mean at the time of when I caught up at that point

Which post is the post that you are referring to here?

[Oatsmaster]

I don’t really understand why ninja is scumreading me for holding onto a view that she doesn’t agree with but is in turn holding onto a view that nobody else agrees with and that’s somehow fine? I’m referring to not realizing that naeyrs did that whole thing about the night kills.

Can you expand on this with some quotes because I don't really follow.

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

Okay I'm caught up. I'm for a DP vote. I'm unsure the vote count right now since it was wrong earlier

If not DP, who are the other two you'd want to lim?

Gob, Oats maybe Luca. I definitely liked Luca more in the catchup than dp for sure though.

These posts

I’ll follow these up later, I need more than my phone

[Oatsmaster]

@darth punk

Luca and Ninja scum together seems impossible to me. They work together too obviously when it comes to derailing the thread.

Look I promise I am done doing what I was doing against Oats. The fact that it was WITH Luca is not the important part here. I needed to know what Oats' deal was, why he was being stubborn on what seems like a lot of really low-stakes stuff, trying to see if we could just talk through a read, be logical about it, come to an understanding. And to make an admittedly enormous story short, he won't, so I'm content to just scum read him and leave it at that. He had his chance to admit that his logic didn't add up and that his read strategy is faulty, and he did everything in his power to avoid having to admit it. So he's just scum in my book.

But for real, you won't see that from me again. I got the answer I needed.

Okay so you see here, shes fine saying that my logic didnt add up by her standards and because I didnt bend to her will and admit it, im mafia.

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

My real life job is biostatistician, and in my profession, we often caution against even conducting a statistical test on anything with too little data. A conclusion based on small sample size is quite dangerous.

Thats a cool job. have you written any papers?

Mafia is not that though, we need to be able to infer probable truths from small pieces of information.

I do know her iso is really small, that is why it bothers me that you didn't

1.) read it when she was in your POE
and
2.) Notice what I did and rule her out from being mafia at least from the time being, or at least consider and dismiss it as being non-indicative of alignment.

Well, you're just going to have to be bothered, then. You don't think small sample size conclusions apply to games like these. I do.

So here, obviously her logic doesnt add up for DP, so she just says, well deal with it. And obviously thats not a problem for her.

Oh I am interested in the alignment; I'm just not interested in analysis of Naerys herself, because there's just not enough to chew on. Whatever tools I want to use to sort someone out, I can't really use those at all on Naerys. You realize it takes like 5 minutes to read through her ISO?

I think I've explained my viewpoint to Darth as thoroughly as I can. I try to look at as many interesting tidbits and nuggets of whatever as I can and I add those up as things that look towny, things that look scummy, and however the chips fall after adding it all up, that's how I tend to feel about the person ultimately. The bit about sample size, I just don't know how else I can get the point across that we do have an abundance of data on pretty much everyone here, while we have a staggering dearth of it with Naerys. It's not just about the post count; it's about what's in the posts. I insist that you can read through and understand everything she's done in this game in 5 minutes. That's just not enough of hardly anything for me to want to bother investing time into directly solving her alignment by studying her directly. I don't know how I can be any clearer on that point.

And she constantly repeats how it only takes 5 minutes to read through naerys' iso but somehow she didnt do it because its not large enough? Thats not good logic to me or anyone imo. She couldve easily admitted that her method was faulty but she doubles down on the exact same type of thing that shes calling me mafia for.

[Oatsmaster]

Hey Dann can you answer this?

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

[Oatsmaster]

I dont really have anything to follow up on for hu tao actually so ignore that.

[Oatsmaster]

Yeah ok I see what you are saying, but do you think that makes her mafia.

I don’t know, like in a vacuum id definitely think it’s scummy, but if I try to get into town!ninjas head I can definitely see her doing this.
So much fencesitting I’m having right now.

I’m going to take a look at ninja again and try to remove all the emotion stuff and just look at the play.

But yes, if we flipped Luca town, then we flipped you town, she was 100% gonna try to yeet me.

[Oatsmaster]

Oats what is the best active scum game you played on TL.

I want to do some meta.

It’s been so long man, I gotta look

[Oatsmaster]

https://tl.net/forum/mafia/532537-mafia ... Oatsmaster
Maybe?
I know i have a couple games not reflected in the database but idk how to find them

[Oatsmaster]

Meh. the yeet is just gob.

it really is just gob

[Oatsmaster]

Okay so skimming through ninja's first day and now shows a pretty stark difference in how shes approaching the game, initially was very open and poked at different people, massively detailed reads list, good push on hu tao but then the further into day 2 we go she just devolves into seeming to want to force people to answer her questions a certain way, locked off reads of lowest post counts + me/vivax at this point.

Great fencesitting by me.
Ultimately I think that shes town, just doesnt have the right distance at this point to play like she did earlier which was better imo.

[Oatsmaster]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

[Oatsmaster]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

[Oatsmaster]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

I think for me it's that you were more hedging on Gob the previous day saying that you've seen many types of players like Gob flip town in the past but here when you're put on the spot by DP to make a decision you respond decisively that he couldn't have played day 1 the way he has as town.

I'd be curious if you read through his past games at all. I haven't but I know you've been looking through other players' games.

With the information I have on day 2 gob, I have made the analysis on day 1 gob. Which is what I said…

[Oatsmaster]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

Could at least have put some pressure on him to give reasons behind his votes.

I realize this now yes, that makes sense

[Oatsmaster]

This is a very big tell for me. If a post seems to be scum-motivated/seems like it's coming from an unnatural place and at the same time utilizes stilted language/unnatural speech, very likely it's coming from scum.

Unlucky

[Oatsmaster]

Ngl, I would be surprised if grack got more mafia than town with that tell

[Oatsmaster]

You know Oats I'm going to be laughing my ass off if my random hunch that Hu Tao red-checked you caused you to fumble your response to her question making Dann push you.

Sorry to disappoint :p

[Oatsmaster]

I mean it doesn’t make sense to me personally that people react badly to vague claims especially if they’ve played more than 1 game of mafia

[Oatsmaster]

I wanna let ooo play this one out so I’m not gonna hammer

[Oatsmaster]

I'll let oats hammer and claim that precious towncred. He's gonna need it.

Uh? You say you are more confident that I’m mafia but seem 100% confident that gob is mafia here?

[Oatsmaster]

I will pursue yeeting the person who hammers gob

[Oatsmaster]

Unless it’s in like 3 days and we are all happy

[Oatsmaster]

You've changed your tune:

That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!

Legitimately will lose interest if we don’t flip someone within the next 24 hours

When did you become so patient?

When we flipped someone

[Oatsmaster]

But...if Ninja's town, she's going to be looking at the wagon from the perspective that scum might well have been involved, especially in a wagon that moved so fast. After Dunn's green flip, it seems natural to have this going through your mind, even though it does seem a little unfair to include Dann in the list when Ninja could have easily dropped the hammer herself. That said, her focus was very much on oats in her analysis, which is fair enough.

Why would ninja be perfectly fine with being on/hammering Dunn day 1 then suddenly go “mafia has to be on the wagon that I would’ve been on if dann didn’t hammer”

[Oatsmaster]

I wanna see how this plays out but ooo brings up a very very good point

[Oatsmaster]

But...if Ninja's town, she's going to be looking at the wagon from the perspective that scum might well have been involved, especially in a wagon that moved so fast. After Dunn's green flip, it seems natural to have this going through your mind, even though it does seem a little unfair to include Dann in the list when Ninja could have easily dropped the hammer herself. That said, her focus was very much on oats in her analysis, which is fair enough.

Why would ninja be perfectly fine with being on/hammering Dunn day 1 then suddenly go “mafia has to be on the wagon that I would’ve been on if dann didn’t hammer”

I covered that in the post you quoted - it was unfair to include Dann, but he wasn't the focus of her analysis anyway.

So if her focus is me, why does she widen the net to include everyone that was on it “late” which literally would’ve been herself?

[Oatsmaster]

But...if Ninja's town, she's going to be looking at the wagon from the perspective that scum might well have been involved, especially in a wagon that moved so fast. After Dunn's green flip, it seems natural to have this going through your mind, even though it does seem a little unfair to include Dann in the list when Ninja could have easily dropped the hammer herself. That said, her focus was very much on oats in her analysis, which is fair enough.

Why would ninja be perfectly fine with being on/hammering Dunn day 1 then suddenly go “mafia has to be on the wagon that I would’ve been on if dann didn’t hammer”

I covered that in the post you quoted - it was unfair to include Dann, but he wasn't the focus of her analysis anyway.

So if her focus is me, why does she widen the net to include everyone that was on it “late” which literally would’ve been herself?

Because, as town, any one of those could be scum from her perspective? She clearly doesn't focus on Dann's hammer in her analysis, so I don't see it as a particularly big issue.

Why would they be scum just for being on wagon that again, she was perfectly fine with joining day 1?

Also everything ooo said.

[Oatsmaster]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

Forgotten roden so fasr

[Oatsmaster]

Ooo can you talk about vivax for a bit

[Oatsmaster]

are we talking or not?

I got busy sorry,
So I kinda skimmed a couple of vivax games on TL and he was much more coherent there, regardless of alignment. Is that something that you noticed too and what do you think that means for his alignment

[Oatsmaster]

Where does this sudden Vivax is mafia come from Oats?

It’s I have no idea what alignment vivax is from oats and I wanna extract as much information from you before you die

[Oatsmaster]

Why not ninja? What in the world made you think that mafia would use naerys to deliver factional

[Oatsmaster]

Alright not using tracker to track mafia night kill is easy mafia

[Oatsmaster]

Alright not using tracker to track mafia night kill is easy mafia

Do you know how the role works? Or what?

I feel like im getting gaslit everytime i talk to these new people.

Do you?

[Oatsmaster]

Alright not using tracker to track mafia night kill is easy mafia

Do you know how the role works? Or what?

I feel like im getting gaslit everytime i talk to these new people.

Do you?

Yes why else would i say it?

So the mafia factional kill has to be carried by someone but you can’t track them? Is that your understanding?

[Oatsmaster]

Alright grack is mafia lol

[Oatsmaster]

Terrible terrible reasoning

[Oatsmaster]

There's a few things leading me this way. I still think Oats' reaction to Hu-Tao's claim was the most likely to be fake.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

I would like to go back here, can you expand on what you mean by fake and how it’s scummy for me to call things terrible?

[Oatsmaster]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

You’ve read my filter yes? I assume you see me start pushing roden about post 200-300

[Oatsmaster]

Alright grack is mafia lol

Why?

He’s literally been doing exactly what he’s been accusing me of, not pushing anything himself and just attaching himself to ongoing things. So if that makes me mafia, how could it not make him mafia? Ergo he’s full of shit

[Oatsmaster]

Alright grack is mafia lol

Yeah, Dann doesn't have an ego. Just a good player. imo

I don't disagree with the above, but at this point I'm going to put Hu Tao as a scumread. She doesn't seem to add anything relevant to the discussions, and only comments on thigs that have no real bearing on the game.

She has also voted me but not, as far as I can see, presented any thought-process behind this read.

This OMGUS?

Close but no cigar

[Oatsmaster]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

Like how is this not exactly what he’s doing?

[Oatsmaster]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

That’s not the issue, the issue is that she would’ve been in that group of people that joined the Dunn wagon if circumstances permitted her. So why is she using the sole fact of joining the Dunn wagon as a reason to call someone mafia?

[Oatsmaster]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

[Oatsmaster]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

That’s not the issue, the issue is that she would’ve been in that group of people that joined the Dunn wagon if circumstances permitted her.

So why is she using the

sole fact

of joining the Dunn wagon as a reason to call someone mafia?

She's not. She spoke on specific reasons as to why she didn't like some of the votes.

Is there a reason you feel obligated to answer on behalf of someone else?

[Oatsmaster]

Oats, what are your reads in general?

Gob grack Luca mafia,

Dp ooo town

Naeyrs town


Ninja I’ve put in a spot in my head where I want to see her post now to make a determination.

Hu Tao town

Vivax I’m struggling with, I haven’t put much thought into his slot because I’ve been distracted by other reads/people but I’d say he’s town

Dann is another one where I had some issues with his posting in the first day especially with the ninja -> dp flip but like I said about dp early on, I think he’ll get resolved before mylo/lylo so I’m not gonna worry about him till then.

[Oatsmaster]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

[Oatsmaster]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

That’s not the issue, the issue is that she would’ve been in that group of people that joined the Dunn wagon if circumstances permitted her.

So why is she using the

sole fact

of joining the Dunn wagon as a reason to call someone mafia?

She's not. She spoke on specific reasons as to why she didn't like some of the votes.

Is there a reason you feel obligated to answer on behalf of someone else?

You mean like how you repeatedly intervened in my argument with Darth by arguing on his behalf and undermining every point I made?

Fair enough

[Oatsmaster]

Since when did you townread Hu Tao?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

[Oatsmaster]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

So why do I write the second bit if I’m concerned about looking suspicious?

[Oatsmaster]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

Can you address why you are scumreading me for the very thing you are doing?

[Oatsmaster]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

Can you address why you are scumreading me for the very thing you are doing?

I really don't think that's what I'm doing.

When I scum read DP it was not the thread sentiment. People started moving towards DP and it provoked a strong reaction from DP.

When I made a push to vote you today it also provoked a strong reaction because I think I made it clear that I was intending to push for my read to try to get an execution.

Oh so you mean that when you push your read to get an execution that’s fine then? So when I push roden to get an execution that doesn’t count how exactly?

[Oatsmaster]

Since when did you townread Hu Tao?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

You seem to have been scumreading Hu Tao for most of this day since her reaction test, so it seems odd that all of a sudden as you're writing out your reads list you become confident she is town.

okay? Is there an actual specific question here or what

[Oatsmaster]

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

Can you address why you are scumreading me for the very thing you are doing?

I really don't think that's what I'm doing.

When I scum read DP it was not the thread sentiment. People started moving towards DP and it provoked a strong reaction from DP.

When I made a push to vote you today it also provoked a strong reaction because I think I made it clear that I was intending to push for my read to try to get an execution.

Oh so you mean that when you push your read to get an execution that’s fine then? So when I push roden to get an execution that doesn’t count how exactly?

Roden came after you hard at the start of the game because he thought your entrance was scummy.

My biggest pushes haven't been in reaction to other people attacking me.

That’s not why you said you scum read me earlier, you said it’s because i piggybacked off of other peoples reads and don’t have original pushes myself. Why the moving goalposts?
I also argue that I was a main proponent in getting Dunn yeeted when he did get yeeted.

[Oatsmaster]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

This was your original post going off of what dann was saying, but now you are saying that’s not what you mean?

[Oatsmaster]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

This was your original post going off of what dann was saying, but now you are saying that’s not what you mean?

To me that doesn't count as initiating a push.

You can say that you initiated a push on me now, but it's entirely reactive to me putting you under pressure. That's the same as you and Roden.

The Dunnstral push I will give you some credit for. You should have answered that to Dann.

This doesn’t make any sense to me.

Initiating a push means putting out original reads and ideas that leads other other people looking and either agreeing or disagreeing with you. It has nothing to do with the initial reason why you did it.
Like how is what you are describing a scum tell?

You do notice that I don’t scumread roden initially even though he scumreads me pretty much immediately.

[Oatsmaster]

Also grack, can you explain why you said earlier that you didn’t want to spend more than a couple hours an evening on this game, but now you seem raring to go? To yeet someone with plenty of time left in the day? To spend more than a couple hours an evening to push a yeet through?

[Oatsmaster]

Oats, what are your reads in general?

Gob grack Luca mafia,

Dp ooo town

Naeyrs town


Ninja I’ve put in a spot in my head where I want to see her post now to make a determination.

Hu Tao town

Vivax I’m struggling with, I haven’t put much thought into his slot because I’ve been distracted by other reads/people but I’d say he’s town

Dann is another one where I had some issues with his posting in the first day especially with the ninja -> dp flip but like I said about dp early on, I think he’ll get resolved before mylo/lylo so I’m not gonna worry about him till then.

You just had me as scum, what changed?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

Also, I was thinking about your playstyle and how it’s not necessarily what I like but that doesn’t mean it’s scummy.

[Oatsmaster]

Can you go back to your gob+me equity post and tell me how that changes now that you think gob is town?

[Oatsmaster]

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

Explain how this is scummy assuming gob is town. Unnatural isn’t cutting it.

[Oatsmaster]

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

Explain how this is scummy assuming gob is town. Unnatural isn’t cutting it.

My reaction after reading the posts was to pressure vote Gob and try to get more information.

Your reaction was to consider his posts from the perspective of Dann being mafia and Dann being town and look into the implications of both cases.

Then after you saw my vote trying to get him to explain his vote you laughed at me and asked what I was doing.

It doesn't come off as a townie approach to me, and then having what to me looks like awkward/unnatural writing at the end of the post makes it scummy to me.

I already explained why I said “come on now grack”.

You described the differences in our approach to that situation but you never make the connection as to how that’s scummy. Townies approach situations differently all the time.

[Oatsmaster]

I have changed my mind about the long days being pro town btw, I think it makes it hard for townies to stay engaged and keeps the discussions going around and around in circles.

Of the couple games I checked, there are a lotta scum wins lol.
Not really sure if it’s player base or format related lol

[Oatsmaster]

I have changed my mind about the long days being pro town btw, I think it makes it hard for townies to stay engaged and keeps the discussions going around and around in circles.

Of the couple games I checked, there are a lotta scum wins lol.
Not really sure if it’s player base or format related lol

You should just start dumping reads if you haven't already, I am not sure I can save you here.

That last one is where I’m at in a very general sense. I don’t have time tonight to get more detailed but I’ll try tomorrow, I think ninja probably hammers me ngl

[Oatsmaster]

Oh nvm she’s voting for me already

[Oatsmaster]

I do wanna take some time to also think about the game assuming that gob is town

[Oatsmaster]

I’ve scumread Hu Tao starting day 1

[Oatsmaster]

UNVOTE:

Since when did you townread Hu Tao?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

You seem to have been scumreading Hu Tao for most of this day since her reaction test, so it seems odd that all of a sudden as you're writing out your reads list you become confident she is town.

why would mafia!oats be inconsistent with HT now when he is facing pressure just before his death?

Could be a few reasons, such as:

- He doesn't want Hu tao to vote for him, so tries to placate her with a town read
- To make her look a bit worse, or at least muddy the waters in terms of associations, following an oats red flip
- Because he wants to pick his battles right now - he can always return to Hu Tao on another day if he survives this one.

Why would Town!oats not consider whether the reaction test meant Hu Tao is more likely town earlier in the day? he has scumread her ever since then. You say oats made a good point, but he's only repeating what myself and other said ages ago. I don't get how oats can scumread her all day, be asked to give some reads and then suddenly, out of nowhere, decide she is town, based on this progression.

Is there a reason you write this post only considering the perspective that Hu Tao is town?

[Oatsmaster]

You wrote a bunch of reasons, none of which included the possibility that Hu Tao was mafia.
That seems like a mistake, wouldn’t you want to consider how I’m mafia if Hu Tao is mafia? In your post of prospective reasons?

[Oatsmaster]

Like you wrote it explicitly with the perspective that I’m mafia and Hu Tao is town. Why?

[Oatsmaster]

UNVOTE:

Since when did you townread Hu Tao?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

You seem to have been scumreading Hu Tao for most of this day since her reaction test, so it seems odd that all of a sudden as you're writing out your reads list you become confident she is town.

why would mafia!oats be inconsistent with HT now when he is facing pressure just before his death?

Could be a few reasons, such as:

- He doesn't want Hu tao to vote for him, so tries to placate her with a town read
- To make her look a bit worse, or at least muddy the waters in terms of associations, following an oats red flip
- Because he wants to pick his battles right now - he can always return to Hu Tao on another day if he survives this one.

Why would Town!oats not consider whether the reaction test meant Hu Tao is more likely town earlier in the day? he has scumread her ever since then. You say oats made a good point, but he's only repeating what myself and other said ages ago. I don't get how oats can scumread her all day, be asked to give some reads and then suddenly, out of nowhere, decide she is town, based on this progression.

Is there a reason you write this post only considering the perspective that Hu Tao is town?

Still not an unvote correct?

Honestly would prefer if you just counted them as you saw them, I’ll correct them if I want to keep the vote on. Is that easier for you?

[Oatsmaster]

Like you wrote it explicitly with the perspective that I’m mafia and Hu Tao is town. Why?

I've already answered this?

Darth asked me why scum!oats would be inconsistent with his read. I don't believe you are likely to be partnered with Hu Tao based on your reaction to her reaction test. What don't you understand here?

Alright if you wanna double down that’s fine

[Oatsmaster]

It's gonna be real awkward if you flip mafia here oats.

I gotchu

[Oatsmaster]

It's probably easier for oats to just put Hu tao as town for now than to find reasons to justify scumreading her

You do realize that I didn’t put any reasons for my scumreads in that reads list, why would I have to justify keeping my Hu Tao scum read? As you’ve been pointing out as well, I’ve had plenty of reasons why I scumread hu Tao before

[Oatsmaster]

Luca, I’m not really sure what the problem is with dp defending his town read when you literally did the exact same thing with Dann.

[Oatsmaster]

UNVOTE:

Since when did you townread Hu Tao?

Since I wrote my reads out, Im thinking that it’s fairly unreasonable to do a gambit like that without a plan as mafia and she definitely didn’t have a plan

You seem to have been scumreading Hu Tao for most of this day since her reaction test, so it seems odd that all of a sudden as you're writing out your reads list you become confident she is town.

why would mafia!oats be inconsistent with HT now when he is facing pressure just before his death?

Could be a few reasons, such as:

- He doesn't want Hu tao to vote for him, so tries to placate her with a town read
- To make her look a bit worse, or at least muddy the waters in terms of associations, following an oats red flip
- Because he wants to pick his battles right now - he can always return to Hu Tao on another day if he survives this one.

Why would Town!oats not consider whether the reaction test meant Hu Tao is more likely town earlier in the day? he has scumread her ever since then. You say oats made a good point, but he's only repeating what myself and other said ages ago. I don't get how oats can scumread her all day, be asked to give some reads and then suddenly, out of nowhere, decide she is town, based on this progression.

Is there a reason you write this post only considering the perspective that Hu Tao is town?

Still not an unvote correct?

Honestly would prefer if you just counted them as you saw them, I’ll correct them if I want to keep the vote on. Is that easier for you?

I'd much rather avoid allowing you to make corrections and stuff cause it could lead to weird situations

i'll count them as unvotes and if you didn't want to just revote who you were going for, sounds good?

Yes, thank you

[Oatsmaster]

It's probably easier for oats to just put Hu tao as town for now than to find reasons to justify scumreading her

You do realize that I didn’t put any reasons for my scumreads in that reads list, why would I have to justify keeping my Hu Tao scum read? As you’ve been pointing out as well, I’ve had plenty of reasons why I scumread hu Tao before

Because If you were questioned about it, you would have to justify it. And Hu Tao is still yet to vote you, but has expressed a willingness to vote you. I think this is a key strategic point here - you want to get on her good side if at all possible.

So it’s not about having to justify it then. another situation where someone moves the goalposts

[Oatsmaster]

Luca, I’m not really sure what the problem is with dp defending his town read when you literally did the exact same thing with Dann.

I have no problem with him defending it

If you say so

[Oatsmaster]

Luca, I’m not really sure what the problem is with dp defending his town read when you literally did the exact same thing with Dann.

I have no problem with him defending it, but I do believe you have him pocketed to the extent that nothing will change his mind short of your red flip.

My other strongest town read, who I also know for a fact is good at the game and good at reading oats also has oats as town, do you think OOO is pocketed too?

Not according to 3490.

I believe Outoforder is wrong, but still open to the possibility of oats being scum as he's shown here. He is currently tunnelled on Ninja which is obscuring his view of the game, in my opinion.

His later posts say he thinks I’m town, why you lying?

[Oatsmaster]

Oats is

E-1

Time to claim

Vt

[Oatsmaster]

Okay, so gob slot will sort itself as the time passes. Lets say i believe his claim for now.
With that -
VOTE: oatsmaster

Why am I mafia?

[Oatsmaster]

@gob, not unlikely she wouldn’t carry out the kill means you think it’s likely she wouldn’t carry out the kill

[Oatsmaster]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

Yes, thank you. And I felt like it was notable just how FAST that wagon grew also, which was much faster than other wagons that day. It just seems jarring to me that after 90+ pages of discussion, suddenly there's this big collective decision that Dunnstral is the guilty one? It seems too sudden to have naturally grown that aggressively and quickly by people who were only arriving at that conclusion from their limited town perspectives.

But you would’ve been part of that wagon, just Dann got there first? So what’s to say it wasn’t 5 other townies that also had the same thoughts as you

[Oatsmaster]

@gob, not unlikely she wouldn’t carry out the kill means you think it’s likely she wouldn’t carry out the kill

I meant the opposite basically. Apologies

In any case, why did you only mention this after I brought it up?

[Oatsmaster]

Luca, I’m not really sure what the problem is with dp defending his town read when you literally did the exact same thing with Dann.

I have no problem with him defending it, but I do believe you have him pocketed to the extent that nothing will change his mind short of your red flip.

My other strongest town read, who I also know for a fact is good at the game and good at reading oats also has oats as town, do you think OOO is pocketed too?

Not according to 3490.

I believe Outoforder is wrong, but still open to the possibility of oats being scum as he's shown here. He is currently tunnelled on Ninja which is obscuring his view of the game, in my opinion.

His later posts say he thinks I’m town, why you lying?

I'm not lying, you just can't read properly (although I'm sure that is deliberate on your part).

I acknowledged that outoforder townreads you, hence I said I believe he is wrong. My point was that he is open to considering you might be scum, as displayed in the post I linked.

You literally reply to dp saying ooo thinks I’m town with “not accordingly to that post”
After that post, he says he thinks I’m town, which you convienetly don’t mention.

[Oatsmaster]

Luca, I’m not really sure what the problem is with dp defending his town read when you literally did the exact same thing with Dann.

I have no problem with him defending it, but I do believe you have him pocketed to the extent that nothing will change his mind short of your red flip.

My other strongest town read, who I also know for a fact is good at the game and good at reading oats also has oats as town, do you think OOO is pocketed too?

Not according to 3490.

I believe Outoforder is wrong, but still open to the possibility of oats being scum as he's shown here. He is currently tunnelled on Ninja which is obscuring his view of the game, in my opinion.

His later posts say he thinks I’m town, why you lying?

I'm not lying, you just can't read properly (although I'm sure that is deliberate on your part).

I acknowledged that outoforder townreads you, hence I said I believe he is wrong. My point was that he is open to considering you might be scum, as displayed in the post I linked.

You literally reply to dp saying ooo thinks I’m town with “not accordingly to that post”
After that post, he says he thinks I’m town, which you convienetly don’t mention.

No, I 'literally' reply to dp asking if he thinks outoforder is pocketed too, and I said no according to that post i linked.

I know he said you were town later, hence I said I think he is wrong. I've explained this already.

If you were town you would just admit you didn't read the posts properly, but I know you won't.

Okay so you were specifically answering if ooo was pocketed, not if ooo town read me at the time of your post. That wasn’t clear from your post.

Secondly, what is your definition of pocket? Ooo said he would look at me again and he did and his read is that I’m town.

[Oatsmaster]

@gob, not unlikely she wouldn’t carry out the kill means you think it’s likely she wouldn’t carry out the kill

I meant the opposite basically. Apologies

In any case, why did you only mention this after I brought it up?

what do you mean? You need to be more specific with your posts.

Mention “this” = mention my role? or why i checked Naerys?

I feel like both are self explanatory

Why did you only mention that you wanted to check naerys for the possibility of her carrying the mafia nk after I mentioned that you didn’t say anything about checking for the person that you thought would carry the mafia night kill.

[Oatsmaster]

Oats, what is your updated read on Ninja?

Town

[Oatsmaster]

@gob, not unlikely she wouldn’t carry out the kill means you think it’s likely she wouldn’t carry out the kill

I meant the opposite basically. Apologies

In any case, why did you only mention this after I brought it up?

what do you mean? You need to be more specific with your posts.

Mention “this” = mention my role? or why i checked Naerys?

I feel like both are self explanatory

Why did you only mention that you wanted to check naerys for the possibility of her carrying the mafia nk after I mentioned that you didn’t say anything about checking for the person that you thought would carry the mafia night kill.

Probably because you mentioned it i was eplaining myself

So you didn’t think of that possibility before I mentioned it?

[Oatsmaster]

Gg!

[Oatsmaster]

@Hu Tao

When you said you were purposefully playing scummy on day 1, was that you shoving in an excuse for what you felt like could have probably been perceived as scummy play? Like did you see people scumreading you, think "damn, they're probably right", and then write that to throw us off your scent?

I was purposely playing day 1 in a way I knew would pocket people that are familiar with me on the site. And day 2 I did something I thought TL people would like in the fake guilty (not sure if they did or not but I guess it worked)

Yeah see, this, THIS RIGHT HERE, is why I absolutely insist that meta reading is bullshit. You say right here you know exactly what your meta is as a town, and so you purposefully play towards your town meta in order to be read that way. This is why I am such a strong disbeliever in meta.

I literally made a meta case that got her lol

[Oatsmaster]

My blunt opinion is that the scum win was a lot more poor play by town than good play by scum. Sorry not sorry.

Haha this is often the way townies feel after games.

You have to think though, about how much of that bad town play was influenced by mafia. I definitely tried to set to vs non tl players against each other.

And sure, you and Luca thought I was mafia at the end . But of course you did cause I was setting myself against you.

I knew that I would look bad, but the next part is yeeting me and I never looked bad enough to yeet even at exe -2 half my wagon was mafia.

I also posted as a very active wolf, Most posts by about 300 And I don’t think I made a slip really at all. Surely that has some merit? cause it’s not easy to play mafia that actively and aggressively getting so much heat but not dying.

I just Think scum often dont get their dues enough when town loses.

Nah this was very well played by mafia even basically playing 1 person down in a town favored setup.